Bad Teachers, Grinds and Rocking the Boat

Billo said:
Do'nt rock the boat. It could be difficult for your daughter.
Take the easy way out, and send your daughter to maths grinds.
Many people do it.
Bad teachers have always been a fact of life.
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Agree in some ways but at the same time something needs to be done about situations like this.. and why pay expensive grinds on top of all the other fees/book/uniforms etc, that parents have to fork out..
Half the time I think kids woulnt need grinds especially in the maths if the method of teaching and that the teacher is actually qualified in the subject, surely parents are entitled to know?
 
Billo said:
Do'nt rock the boat. It could be difficult for your daughter.
Take the easy way out, and send your daughter to maths grinds.
Many people do it.
Bad teachers have always been a fact of life.
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The reason why they have always been a fact of life is because people have followed your advice in the past.
 
Complainer said:
The reason why they have always been a fact of life is because people have followed your advice in the past.
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I disagree. Bad teachers were there long long before it became the norm for students to attend grinds, to get around the problem.

Billo
 
Billo said:
I disagree. Bad teachers were there long long before it became the norm for students to attend grinds, to get around the problem.
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Indeed, bad teachers were around long before grinds. My comment was more about the 'lets not cause trouble' attitude than about grinds. We can't sit back and say 'lets not cause trouble' in this day and age.

Stop being a victim and take action (as legs akimbo is doing). It's not easy, it's not perfect, and it takes a long time to get any result. But it is worth doing.
 
Even though I agree with you Complainer I'm afraid I was one of those people that tried to do something about the bad teachers that some my children had to contend with in school.

Every child (bar one) in my daughter's math’s class in leaving cert attended grinds and the teacher recommended to the parent of that one child that all other children were going to grinds and she should too.

I tackled this teacher and school as I did another English teacher of another of my children during a parent teacher meeting I have tackled school principles (not a crank) my children are intelligent and they know when a teacher does not know what she/he is doing or like the English teacher who brought the newspaper into class every day to read.

I am lucky enough to be able to pay for grinds for my children but always felt bad that there are others out there that did not have that advantage so could never have the same advantages that mine had even though probably as if not more intelligent than mine .

Don't get me wrong there are some excellent teachers out there too and I know some of them and they are as frustrated as we are but they agree with me that most of them are untouchable and that is the problem they don’t seem to have anyone to answer to.

In most jobs in the private sector if we behaved like this we would be given the door!! I am so glad that the last of my children finished secondary school this year as I was getting more and more disillusioned and this is not a ‘disadvantaged’ school or area!!
 
There should be no need for grinds for any subject - it is a teachers job to prepare the students not only to take the exams but to pass them. I'm surprised that more parents don't complain about having to pay for expensive grinds.
 
TLC said:
There should be no need for grinds for any subject - it is a teachers job to prepare the students not only to take the exams but to pass them. I'm surprised that more parents don't complain about having to pay for expensive grinds.
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Teacher A teaches poorly. Teacher B benefits from grinds.
Teacher B teaches poorly. Teacher A benefits from grinds.

All teacher can benefit financially from not performing their job.
 
Complainer said:
So Hans, what was the outcome of your complaints?
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I had numerous responses I was told by one Principle (off the record) that there was nothing he could do that it was almost impossible to sack a teacher he could have a word with them but because the grades that the students get are often good because they are going to grinds that the teacher comes out with a clean slate.

When I and another parent approached the English teacher about his teaching he said he could get lots of students and teachers to back him up.

I have two very close relations who have told me that me if I had a full year to spare to take on the fight and even then with very little chance of winning a case againt the teacher as it is so hard to prove as alot of evidence is relative.

Unfortunately I didn't have the time to follow it up - maybe to my disgrace!

As I had so little hope of getting anywhere my neighbour’s son is getting 4 grinds this year is that fair on another child in his class whose parents cant afford to send him for grinds.
 
4 grinds? I assume you mean grinds in 4 different subjects? This post will be deleted if not edited immediately!! I know this shouldn't be the solution but would you ever think of switching schools, it is early enough in the school year, I don't even know if that's possible?
 
My son's honours maths teacher went on maternity leave in December of Junior Cert Year. The replacement was incompetent and ALL lads ended up getting grinds. In 5th year the teacher in honours Leaving Cert maths was also inadequate. Pupils who could afford to got grinds, others dropped out to the pass maths class and a couple opted out of the school and went to the Institute of Education.

A headmaster pal of ours said that the quality of honours maths teachers is abysmal. Incompetent teachers cannot be fired because of the unions and the best that can be dome is to share them around the different years - at least one year in five your child will have this teacher.

It's a great little country with a great little smart economy.
 
carpedeum said:
My son's honours maths teacher went on maternity leave in December of Junior Cert Year. The replacement was incompetent and ALL lads ended up getting grinds. In 5th year the teacher in honours Leaving Cert maths was also inadequate. Pupils who could afford to got grinds, others dropped out to the pass maths class and a couple opted out of the school and went to the Institute of Education.

A headmaster pal of ours said that the quality of honours maths teachers is abysmal. Incompetent teachers cannot be fired because of the unions and the best that can be dome is to share them around the different years - at least one year in five your child will have this teacher.

It's a great little country with a great little smart economy.
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in 2002 a task force on the physical sciences carried out an in depth analysis of the teaching of these subjects in schools and universities and the uptake of these subjects by students. One of its key recomendations was that a proportion of teaching posts or a quota be retained for university graduates with honours degrees in these subjects. The reasoning being that most teachers teaching leaving cert students maths and physical sciences do not have honours degrees just general degrees. Therefore they do not have a thorough understanding of the subjects they are teaching. Of course it wasnt acted upon.
As in so many areas of irish society the reason we are in such trouble is that no one will take proper decisions. There is a lack of authority at government level. The authority the church had has not been replaced by government and civil authority, so nobody is in charge. Maybe we are still being affected by our colonial past where we are afraid to give anyone too much authority because of what happened during colonialism. Paradoxically we are now looking to europe to provide that authority.
 
Complainer said:
This is nonsense. There is an agreed performance management procedure in place. THe question is whether the principal and BOM have the guts to make this happen.
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This is nonsense. It is almost impossible for a teacher to be sacked for being bad at their job. I have been involved in school management and there no chance that a teacher would ever be sanctioned for bad performance, mainly because their union has successfully maintained and sustained the nonsensical argument that there's no way to measure the performance of a teacher. When you can’t measure it you can’t manage it.
 
Purple said:
This is nonsense. It is almost impossible for a teacher to be sacked for being bad at their job. I have been involved in school management and there no chance that a teacher would ever be sanctioned for bad performance, mainly because their union has successfully maintained and sustained the nonsensical argument that there's no way to measure the performance of a teacher. When you can’t measure it you can’t manage it.
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How are (non cost-of-living) pay increases justified then ;)?
 
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