AVCs with full service

Several hundred thousand euro.
If you are funding (?) for just an additional 50% Spouses pension (only payable in the event of the retired member pre-deceasing his/her spouse) I cannot see how that might be "several hundred thousand euro".
What's your calculations?
 
I was concerned with overfunding through avc. I am on db pension. I was kindly advised that it nearly impossible to overfund in my position.

this allows me to invest through my avc and it can grow tax free until I put it into an ARF on retirement.
 
I was concerned with overfunding through avc. I am on db pension. I was kindly advised that it nearly impossible to overfund in my position.
Not all DB pensions are equal. The level of additional funding leeway will vary depending on the level of benefits payable under the main scheme. I recall from a previous post that you are in a PS Class A PRSI scheme. There is loads of scope for AVC funding there.
 
I was concerned with overfunding through avc. I am on db pension. I was kindly advised that it nearly impossible to overfund in my position.

this allows me to invest through my avc and it can grow tax free until I put it into an ARF on retirement.
Who does or how is the calculation made? Class D PRSI..
 
Who does or how is the calculation made? Class D PRSI..
If you are a Pre1995 Class D with likely full service, then you occupational pension will give you:
- lump sum of 150% of Salary, plus
- a members pension of 50% of salary (with a Spouses Pension of 50% of the members pension in the event that the member pre-deceases their spouse)
Combined this would be the equivalent to a total pension of 2/3rds Salary (the Revenue max).
Therefore if you have full service you realistically have very limited scope for AVCs . I disagree with bstop when they say that you can fund “several hundred thousand euro” in respect of bringing the Spouses Pension up to 100% of the members pension. It is important to bear in mind that the Spouses Pension is a “contingent” benefit and only becomes payable IF the retired member pre-deceases their spouse - which might not happen.
As for the calculation, you might need to discuss your possibilities with whoever runs your AVC scheme, possibly Cornmarket.
 
You are funding for the possibility of payment for a widows or widowers pension.
A single worker can fund because of the possibility of marriage later in life.
 
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You are funding for the possibility of payment for a widows or widowers pension.
A single worker can fund because of the possibility of marriage later in life.

Membership of the Survivors' Benefit part of PS pensions has been compulsory for men since 1969 and for women since 1981. The Original Scheme (pre -1984) contained some restrictions in benefits relative to the Revised Scheme (1984). The main restriction was that it did not provide a Survivor Pension if the marriage was contracted after retirement.
 
You are funding for the possibility of payment for a widows or widowers pension.
A single worker can fund because of the possibility of marriage later in life.
Ok, so how do you calculate how much AVCs you can fund for the possibility of providing a Spouses Pension, which might or might not actually arise? Even if you are married coming up to retirement, how do you FUND for a contingent benefit? What’s the calculation model?
 
Pension shortfall 15000 euro per year.
Spouse age 60.
Lifespan 30 years.
You are the pension expert. You work it out.
 
Pension shortfall 15000 euro per year.
Spouse age 60.
Lifespan 30 years.
You are the pension expert. You work it out.
But the Spouses Pension only arises on the members death in retirement IF the spouse is still alive. That might never arise. The Spouses Pension is not a pension payable in addition to the Member Pension.
Your understanding of the benefit (a contingent benefit) is misplaced. So what’s the multiple of €15,000 in your example for a benefit that might never arise?
 
As I have said many times the AVCs are allowable to fund for a possibility.
If the possible event does not arise the AVCs can be used as desired by the holder.
 
As I have said many times the AVCs are allowable to fund for a possibility.
If the possible event does not arise the AVCs can be used as desired by the holder.
Even if that were correct, what’s the multiplier of €15,000 for such a contingent benefit? And if at retirement, both the couple are still alive (so your AVC fund is not being used to provide a Spouses Pension at that time) but the AVC fund is tranferred to an ARF, the resulting compulsory drawdown (4% or 5%) is drawn down by the member (not the Spouse) and could result in a total pension income in excess of Revenue limits. How is that allowable under Revenue max benefits?
 
A pension may fund for a possibility. But does the cost of that possibility not have to quantified and taken into account in relation to the overall Revenue pension limits? For example, if there is to be a death benefit payable after retirement I understand that this has to be accounted for by referring to the equivalent cost of a single payment life insurance policy for that age group.
 
Agreed. And in the case of a large group scheme, an actuarial calculation can be made as to the volume of possible Spouses Pensions (payable only on the members death in retirement leaving a surviving spouse) and the resulting funding cost. But in an individual case (even where the member is a member of a large group scheme) I cannot see how they can FUND for a benefit that might never arise, without potentially exceeding Revenue limits if the event never happens (ie the member does outlive their spouse).
 
Possibility....
Member outlives spouse and then remarries.
 
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Possibility....
Member outlives spouse and them remarries
The Revised Scheme (post-1984, but members of the older scheme had a transfer option) provides for a survivor pension in the event of marriage after retirement. I cannot confirm but I assume this would also cover the above possibility. (It must make elderly single PS retirees quite attractive. An unfunded benefit!)
 
Possibility....
Member outlives spouse and them remarries.
They should be so lucky.
Ok, but how much can you FUND through AVCs to cover this possibility? How is the AVC fund used at retirement? And what happens if the member doesn’t remarry? How might this stay within Revenue limits?