As a PIP, do you charge for initial consultation

wbbs said:

For some reason this was not done, MABS was the obvious agency to deal with those unable to fund it themselves.

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Completely agree with you on this, and why was it not done? To protect the incomes of those who have access to government. You only have to look at all the legal and financial fees that are being paid out by the Irish taxpayer for all the Nama/insolvency/bankruptcy work.

But the PIP options seems to be backfiring spectacularly, people do not actually have the money to hire them. And I'm just waiting to see how much of a quango/fiasco the ISI turns out to be, and look at that lovely new mess Irish Water. There is no end of good money to throw at all of these, but none to actually help distressed borrowers. Instead we have 'disparate' groups such as the phoenix project, New beginnings, Radolupous Allen Trust......

Speaking of Mabs, we have poster Guineapig going for a DRN via Mabs, and that too is a shambles. She has been given incorrect information by Mabs/ISI and messed around by a bank etc, and sent hither and thither for documents more than once.

Yes, I think we can all make a guess at the reasons why it was not done, getting very cynical aren't we

I know someone doing that job in MABS and while they seem to be well able for it the backup being received does not seem to be fit for purpose, initial training info being changed and continual altering of internal processes is not contributing to a smooth system for the clients.

ellenb said:

Can I ask has anyone discovered anywhere that can handle a bankruptsy or PIP or DSA free of charge?

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Have you tried IMHO, New Beginnings etc?
Have you rang numerous PIP's and get their opinion?

I recently spoke to a few PIP's over the phone regarding my own situation and looking to get some other opinions on whether bankruptcy was the best option for me. They all confirmed it was and we discussed the whole insolvency system in general. A couple of these PIP's said they would be willing to take on cases Free of Charge and help the debtors so they could get experience of the system. The numbers going through are tiny and they were of the opinion that alot of people are negotiating with the bank directly rather than going through the formal process and having to live on what the debtors see as small allowances.

Some of these PIP's are chomping at the bit to get some experience, of course you would probably have to cover the court fees yourself but they may be able to do everything else FOC.
Give a few of them a ring, you've nothing to lose.

FREE PIP'S at IMHO - David Hall

http://www.independent.ie/business/...after-it-secures-vital-pip-deal-30143180.html

I cannot find the right thread for this, it was one where Burgess mentioned that in April the Insolvency service would be brought into the Dail to answer questions on how things are going, which is abysmally, and he asked us if there were any questions we would like to pose.

To that thread we should now add that David Hall has secured another major victory as Grant Thornton are now teaming up with him and offering themselves as PIP's. Free to the debtor and paid for by the banks apparently.

That's it wrapped up so I would say, will be hard for the small guys to make a living. To be honest if I wanted that service I would go to someone with a lot of experience in this area like Grant Thornton. Was at a seminar of their couple of years back where they said they would have teams on the road throughout Ireland to deal with cases, don't know if they have gone ahead with that or not but this link up would put them well placed.

I do think that David Hall and the IMHO have done a fantastic job in promoting themselves as being "open for business". This has all been done on a shoe string budget, a handful of staff and buckets of common sense and intelligence. David Hall
has to be commended for forging workable alliances with the banks, the debtors and now even PIPs. Is this not what a properly functioning insolvency service should be doing ?

This is in sharp contrast to the ISI , having an annual budget / cost base of 7.2 million euro and currently employing 89 people. The ISI had projected that it would be processing 15,000 cases per year but so far (according to unofficial reports) has only managed to conclude 10 !!! This is a dramatic failure by any stretch of the imagination. The ISI has made several weak attempts to justify its existence and so far has declined to give any meaningful statistics about its progress.. Formal arrangements do have a place but clearly only a handful of staff are needed for this and an annual budget of maybe 300,000. What a total waste of taxpayers money this is and will continue to be until someone cries halt.

I believe that some of this 7.2 million euro budget needs to be diverted away from the ISI as soon as possible to where it is really needed and where it will be most effective in sorting out the insolvency challenges facing us. Hopefully the next Justice Minister will address this as a matter of urgency

Dr.Debt said:

This is in sharp contrast to the ISI , having an annual budget / cost base of 7.4 million euro and currently employing 89 people.

Hopefully the next Justice Minister will address this as a matter of urgency

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Wow, 7.4 million, 89 people, and a caseload of 10 or so. I wonder what IMHO would have done with such a budget.

In relation to the Justice Minister, whatever about the ISI being abysmal, the legislation has had to be tweaked so many times already and the system is not working, so maybe if the dirt continues we'll get a JM who is not only cleverer than everybody, actually gets things done.