Architects - what do they do....

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noodle

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Hired an architect - a real one - paying 8% of build cost
We're building a 180sqm house - build cost 1700sqm. We asked for a high spec, so we're getting a zinc roof, and underfloor heating - and we're going timber frame. But is this still an excessive cost - architect has indicated that this is on the low side, but should be doable because we have a simple house design.
We're going to planning but I'm beginning to realise that architect services doesn't cover all aspects of build process, what are the obvious things it doesn't. We've been issued the RIAI list of services with associated breakdown of fees but what does this not include??
I'm afraid at this stage that the 1700/sqm doesn't actually include everything....
 
Might be best if you could specify what is included in your current contract with the architect.
 
Stuff not included:

Detailed cost analysis (if required) - done by a Q.S.

Any unusual/ non-standard structure - done by an engineer.

If there is a proprietary treatment unit required - testing of ground conditions etc. (possibly) done by the proposed installer of the treatment unit.

Is there anything in particular you want to know about?
 
It's the standard RIAI list of services - with associated breakdown of cost, as shown here:
http://www.askaboutmoney.com/showthread.php?t=18471&highlight=architect+25%25

What I'm wondering is - what does this not include. So far we've had to hire an engineer for two different jobs, so is it likely that we'll have to hire others such as a quantity surveyor etc.

Just wondered if anyone else has experience using this list of services - as it would be great to know what extra costs we can expect.
 
Superman -
guess I though that the 1700/sqm budget would cover everything - but as the expenses keep mounting even before we go to planning I'm beginning to realise that this isn't the case.
We asked recently for a cost breakdown - basically we want to look into alternative energy - wind turbine, geothermal and the like. So what we wanted to know was how much of our budget was earmarked for these things, so that we could work out what we could actually get.
Basically he freaked out and said we had discussed costings - yeah we had told him how much we had to spend and he wrote it down - and took his percentage out of it.
So I think we need to know will this always be the case - do we have to do the budget, or get a QS?
 
If you want a cost break down and get a proper idea of what it will cost, you'll have to get a Q.S. I'm afraid it is a rather specialist area, which is why an architect is of limited use.

Even a Q.S. though may be a certain percentage out depending on how busy local builders are (and thus how much of a premium they'll charge).

Q.S.'s offer different levels of service, and so you should talk to your architect about what you require.

Best of luck
 
I would have thought that your architect would have completed construction plans! How can you get quotes otherwise? Also, architect should take on the submitting for planning permission aspect. You should really have got a written list from architect outlining exactly what was included and the costs.

Once you have construction plans you can approach builders. Its the builder who should employ a good QS. One good engineer should be able to oversee the building part.

good luck, oh read lots of posts on here as well.

noah
 
Noah:
No, a Q.S. can give a preliminary cost off initial sketch design.

Obviously it won't be as accurate - but there is little point in designing something, getting Planning, doing working drawings and then finding out that you don't have enough money for the design.

For the 8%, the architect will be making the application, doing the working drawings and supervising.
 
Had a similar experience.

For 8% I would expect this to include bringing you through planning and and providing detailed drawings for construction.

A QS can prepare a cost plan for you. Mine met with me for 2 hours, we went through everything in the house that the contractor might take on and then prepared a costing for me on what the building was likely to cost. It helped me decide to omit some costly aspects of the building. I then refine the document and the QS prepared a blank scedule of rates which had to be filled in by contractors tendering for the job. It helped e decide who to award the build to and also how to negotiate the awarding of the contract. The entire service with 1 cost plan filled in and 5 copies with costings ommitted for tendering cost 700E - I consider it well worth the money as a %age of the budget for your build.

If the house is to have a raft, lots of steel etc. then an engineer will most likely be required to make up drawings also. Mine charged 2700 for all drawings and supervision of the build - releasing stage payments etc.
 
Still have architect ........ so do they hire QS or do we?
Can/does architect do any costings?

Is it better to have architect or engineer for build? Does it matter? Or will I end up needing an engineer, even though we have an architect?

Thanks
 
You hire the QS, they will be working for you and can keep the architect in check. You might need a engineer if there are some structural details that the arch can design (founds, beams maybe roof) You have to make sure the arch knows what you want and that the design he comes up with is 'buildable' Otherwise the builder will go to town on the cost.
 
Just been informed that we can't afford a geothermal heat pump system - at €1700/sqm, can this be true?????
 
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