Any views on yesterdays news (Bail out )

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thedaras

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Seems that there are some who are in shock at the large amounts which are required to bail out the banks.

It also seems the budget will be much more severe than first thought.
Apparently it will cost 10 k per man woman and child.

I know there are threads about how this can be done,and why etc,but what do you think in general of the "state of the Nation"?

Would you leave ,if you could?
 
According to the economists on Morning Ireland this morning the country will get out of it and turn itself around....
I think things are bad but there are still people earning the same money as before, with goods and services cheaper than before, who don't have any credit card debt or personal loans because they lived within their means and saved for their purchases / holidays etc. So the state of the nation is ok for some and hopefully will recover for the others who lost jobs and borrowed excessively during the good times.
 
My two cents is that it is going to make it even more difficult to convince people to make sacrifices.
The line last year was the the deficit had nothing to do with the banks. Many people bought into that and took their medicine.
Now the government are saying that because of the size of the bailout, the cuts/taxes will have to be more severe. So it will be the case that the bank's reckless lending will impact on public services.
 
I could swallow it a bit better if I saw a few heads rolling

The way it looks to me at the moment is that mistakes were made that are costing me and the rest of the taxpayers €35billion but nobody is getting punished for those mistakes ... except for me and the rest of the taxpayers.
 
Shawady said:
Now the government are saying that because of the size of the bailout, the cuts/taxes will have to be more severe. So it will be the case that the bank's reckless lending will impact on public services.
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One of the things that the Minister said on Prime Time Last night is that, of the current deficit, 1.5bn is due to servicing the debt arising from the bailout, and 19bn is due to us spending more than we earn
 
Yeah I agree with DB74. It would make it more acceptable if people were being punished for their actions and the Irish taxpayer could see the punishments being handed out. Instead we're left with faceless, nameless people more or less getting away with it and being told that any money we have is basically going to be tied up in fixing their mistakes
 
thedaras said:
I know there are threads about how this can be done,and why etc,but what do you think in general of the "state of the Nation"?

Would you leave ,if you could?
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I wasn't in the slightest surprised to learn about the scale of the bank bailout or that our so called leaders have been lying to us about how bad things are.

But, despite 2 job losses in 3 years, OH pay cuts,another job rejection recently and panic setting in over how the hell we are going to fund our son going to University, yesterday was the first time I have actually sat down and cried out of sheer frustration. We don't own (and unlikely we ever will) a house, have no loans or credit card balances, have saved for purchases etc, yet what is coming is another kick in the teeth.

Would I leave? Like a shot if I thought it was worth it.

Agree with DB74. At least if we saw the culprits suffering (and by that I mean stripped of every asset, forced to live on 196.00 a week or go begging to their community welfare officer for money for food) for what they have done it might make it a bit easier - wouldn't waste the money on imprisoning them though.
 
TarfHead said:
One of the things that the Minister said on Prime Time Last night is that, of the current deficit, 1.5bn is due to servicing the debt arising from the bailout, and 19bn is due to us spending more than we earn
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But they came up with a series of budget adjustments for the next few years. Now they are going to be more severe because of the scale of the bank bailout.
So the bank bailout will in fact have an impact on spending cuts & tax increases, which is contrary to what the government said last year.

They have been wrong all almost all their predictions so why change now I suppose.
 
I would definitely leave if my children were a bit older - but they are at an age where it would be cruel to uproot them from friends, schools etc. so I'm stuck here for a while - may still look to move in a few years when they are at college.

Agree with other posters that this whole thing would be a lot easier to stomach if those who played a part in dragging down the banks were left living on minimum wage level incomes. It is sickening to think that the major players undoubtedly have money and assets transferred to spouses, adult children etc. and they'll end up with still good lifestyles in a few years time. eg in the IT article yesterday on Derek Quinlan selling up in Shrewsbury Road, they mentioned that Sean Dunne's wife had bought a house there for $58M a few years ago - she must have been quite a journalist to be able to afford that...
 
TarfHead said:
One of the things that the Minister said on Prime Time Last night is that, of the current deficit, 1.5bn is due to servicing the debt arising from the bailout, and 19bn is due to us spending more than we earn
Click to expand...


So the job of work now is to find savings and to eliminate wasteful spending of public money.

Work parctices in the public sector need to be changed.

We don't need 129 local authority organisations.

We don't need small county hospitals. - Roads and transport have improved since many of these were built.

We don't need public servants who are paid higher than the EU average.
 
JP1234 said:
I wasn't in the slightest surprised to learn about the scale of the bank bailout or that our so called leaders have been lying to us about how bad things are.

But, despite 2 job losses in 3 years, OH pay cuts,another job rejection recently and panic setting in over how the hell we are going to fund our son going to University, yesterday was the first time I have actually sat down and cried out of sheer frustration. We don't own (and unlikely we ever will) a house, have no loans or credit card balances, have saved for purchases etc, yet what is coming is another kick in the teeth.

Would I leave? Like a shot if I thought it was worth it.

Agree with DB74. At least if we saw the culprits suffering (and by that I mean stripped of every asset, forced to live on 196.00 a week or go begging to their community welfare officer for money for food) for what they have done it might make it a bit easier - wouldn't waste the money on imprisoning them though.
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Tough love" is just the right phrase: love for the rich and privileged, tough for everyone else.
 
Would it be simplistic to just not renew the Anglo guarantee when it runs out in 3 months time, explain to the markets that the bondholders will have to go whistle for it because the government did not borrow from them, this was not government debt/soverign debt, and the government is not prepared to punish the citizens of Ireland for the misdeeds of Seanie & the cronies. Bondholders were participating in the free market and occasionally it bites you, hope ye had plenty of diversificaiton lads....

I'm of the view that our bond spreads would narrow (get nearer to Germany's) as we dont draw all that burden on ourselves, the markets would acknowledge that this is not soverign debt default, its what happens when you invest in a reckless company (Anglo).

I'd be on for giving it a crack!, bleedin nice to see the government being so "conscientious" on our behalf, FF out, whoever promises to default on Anglo bonds gets my vote.
 
If the government did default on the guarantee what would happen?
 
pixiebean22 said:
If the government did default on the guarantee what would happen?
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For starters the bondholders would get nothing, i.e. the taxpayers wouldnt bail them out.

The €34Bn question is would there be knock on negative effects for Ireland, in particular the rate we pay on borrowings. Opinions differ but my suspicion is that the market plays by big boy rules and bondholders losing is a normal consequence of capitalism. Ireland is good for its soverign debt (government bonds), moreso because it hasnt taken on Anglo bondholder debt, and so maybe the costs even fall. TBH I dont know enough to say all this with much conviction but I'd like to hear it explored in detail by those who are supposed to know.
 
fizzelina said:
According to the economists on Morning Ireland this morning the country will get out of it and turn itself around....
I think things are bad but there are still people earning the same money as before, with goods and services cheaper than before, who don't have any credit card debt or personal loans because they lived within their means and saved for their purchases / holidays etc. So the state of the nation is ok for some and hopefully will recover for the others who lost jobs and borrowed excessively during the good times.
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I think that the numbers of people you are referring to is a lot lower than you might think.

DB74 said:
I could swallow it a bit better if I saw a few heads rolling

The way it looks to me at the moment is that mistakes were made that are costing me and the rest of the taxpayers €35billion but nobody is getting punished for those mistakes ... except for me and the rest of the taxpayers.
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The ones that need to be sacked are the politicians that made the decision to bail out the banks. Charge them with treason if need be.
The banks made mistakes and should face bankruptcy, just like any other company does that makes mistakes. The only reason the €35b is hanging over our heads is because of the trigger happy, incompetent, ill-informed decision to bail out the banks. And the only one to blame for that is the government.

Betsy Og said:
Would it be simplistic to just not renew the Anglo guarantee when it runs out in 3 months time, explain to the markets that the bondholders will have to go whistle for it because the government did not borrow from them, this was not government debt/soverign debt, and the government is not prepared to punish the citizens of Ireland for the misdeeds of Seanie & the cronies. Bondholders were participating in the free market and occasionally it bites you, hope ye had plenty of diversificaiton lads....

I'm of the view that our bond spreads would narrow (get nearer to Germany's) as we dont draw all that burden on ourselves, the markets would acknowledge that this is not soverign debt default, its what happens when you invest in a reckless company (Anglo).

I'd be on for giving it a crack!, bleedin nice to see the government being so "conscientious" on our behalf, FF out, whoever promises to default on Anglo bonds gets my vote.
Click to expand...
I think that is the only solution that would work, and I don't think you are being simplistic at all. This happens all the time to companies of various sizes. The idea of "too big to fail" is complete and utter political nonsense that cannot be backed up with any logic or actual experienced evidence.

Betsy Og said:
For starters the bondholders would get nothing, i.e. the taxpayers wouldnt bail them out.

The €34Bn question is would there be knock on negative effects for Ireland, in particular the rate we pay on borrowings. Opinions differ but my suspicion is that the market plays by big boy rules and bondholders losing is a normal consequence of capitalism. Ireland is good for its soverign debt (government bonds), moreso because it hasnt taken on Anglo bondholder debt, and so maybe the costs even fall. TBH I dont know enough to say all this with much conviction but I'd like to hear it explored in detail by those who are supposed to know.
Click to expand...
I think you are not giving yourself enough credit. You are absolutely right. The cost of state lending would go down if the state was no longer liable for the banks' debts. The very reason bond yields have been going up is because the cost of bailing out banks has been increasing every couple of months with new revelations. Bond holders took a risk and are now not paying the price. All this is doing is setting ever more implicit guarantees that bond holders will never be allowed take a hit, resulting in banks never changing their risks.
 
I too could take it easier if I saw a few guys banged up in jail or on the dole with no massive golden handshakes or pensions. But of course we won't.

But at the end of the day, a lot of the population in this country are just as guilty too. We all got caught up in the hype and excitement of selling our houses for more than they were worth, buying a bigger one, selling that for a huge profit again, living off money we didn't have, living the high life etc etc. Can't complain now when its all gone belly up.

However, it is a shame that important things in life like education and health will suffer big time to help pay off the mistakes of a few dozen people who gambled recklessly.

Millions will suffer for the mistakes of the few. And the few won't suffer enough.
 
I just want to see any senior bank official taken away in handcuffs and sent to prison. It would make paying back those €30k that my family has never seen but stilll owes a lot less unacceptable.
 
RMCF;1088714 But at the end of the day said:
We all got caught up in the hype and excitement of selling our houses for more than they were worth, buying a bigger one, selling that for a huge profit again, living off money we didn't have, living the high life etc etc. [/B]Can't complain now when its all gone belly up.
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Rubbish!! WE ALL did not do this.
But what WE ALL have to do now, is pay for those who did so ....
 
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