Any tropical aquarium lovers out there

[Cels13]

Hey there,

We brought a Juwel Aquarium Vision 180 tank 3 weeks ago and have 28 tropical fish (mainly small ones) in it after getting the ph balance right.

We are amateurs at this so we'd appreciate it if anyone could advise us on a good book or website for looking after tropical fish efficiently.

Cheers all.

 

[boogaloo]

I'm afraid I can't help you with a book, but if you wouldn't mind, could you let me know approx how much your aquarium & the fish cost? I've vaguely looked in to it once or twice before but that was a while ago now.

thanks.

 

[askew70]

Hey there,

We brought a Juwel Aquarium Vision 180 tank 3 weeks ago and have 28 tropical fish (mainly small ones) in it after getting the ph balance right.

We are amateurs at this so we'd appreciate it if anyone could advise us on a good book or website for looking after tropical fish efficiently.

Cheers all.

I have a few books but the ones that I use most, as I find them most useful, are:

"Tropical Fishlopaedia - A complete guide to fish care" by Mary Bailey and Peter Purgess
- I find this an excellent reference book, although the layout makes it hard to find sections (there is no index as far as I can remember). It is also quite preachy, with lots of "you must do this" and "you mustn't do that" in it. Still, I find the information in there very useful when I have call to refer to the book. The book gives little or no info on species of fish (average size, average lifespan, etc.) as it is aimed purely at advising on care of fish as the title suggests.

"Aquarium fishes of the world" by Dr. Herbert R. Axelrod, Dr. Warren E. Burgess, Neil Pronek, Glen S. Axelrod, David E. Boruchowitz
- this goes through numerous different species of fish, including mating habits, average size that fish tend to grow to, preferred tank temperature, preferred habitat, preferred foods, etc. It is very useful when you want to check which species of fish are compatible, etc.

Both of these books I bought in Easons a few years ago, the former for about 15euro and the latter for about 30euro.

Incidentally, I have a Juwel 125L tank for over 3 years now and initially stocked it with about 12 small-ish fish. I reckoned that was the maximum the tank would take, having checked what the likely max size of each species of fish was before buying them (there is a common simple formula for maximum fish density, which I think may appear in the first book above, but which is available widely in any case). However, some of my Keyhole Cichlids bred so while I started out with 4 of that species, I ended up with 10 of them (only 6 of the "kids" survived, from over a hundred eggs and dozens of fry - the consequences of tiny fry being born in a community tank!). So, I ended up with more fish than my aquarium could really cater for, which is a problem. The real solution is to move some of the fish to another tank, but I don't have a second tank so that is out. Instead, to prevent their environment from becoming too toxic due to waste from an excessive number of fish, I end up doing a partial water change twice a week. I do a 50% water change at the weekend, and a 25% water change mid-week. This is advisable in any case, for the health of the fish. It can seem like a lot of work before it becomes a routine, but some of my fish are over 3 years old as a result.

At this stage, my main advise is to beware of putting too many fish into the tank (28 seems like a lot - you need to consider what size they are likely to grow to over the course of a few years, which perhaps you have done) as too many will compromise the health of all of them, and get into a routine of regular (weekly, at least) partial water changes. Oh, and beware of where you get your fish. Some of the stores that I looked at had tanks where the fish looked very unhealthy and all it takes is one unhealthy fish introduced into your tank to kill the lot of them (especially if their health is already diminished as a consequence of overcrowding, for example).

Good luck.

 

[askew70]

Incidentally, you mention that you added fish to the tank after "getting the pH balance right". Are you aware that pH is just one factor, and that the main thing is to establish the nitrogen cycle in the tank before adding any fish? If you haven't done so, you need to read up on this in a hurry as you might lose some/all of your fish in a hurry if you don't take action.

A quick web search threw back this page on the nitrogen cycle:

http://www.tropicalfishcentre.co.uk/Cycle.htm

Basically, the tank needs to be able to break down the waste excreted by the fish as the water will become toxic otherwise. Once the nitrogen cycle is established, this breakdown can happen, but without it the fish will be living in a tank which is becoming more polluted by the hour. A partial water change will dilute the toxins, but if the cycle is not established yet you might need something to give it a boost (I think there are products for this).

If you haven't already done so, you should buy yourself some water testing kits to measure the water for concentrations of nitrates, ammonia, pH, etc. These will help you identify whether the water is becoming too toxic. Testing once a day is probably a good idea in the first few weeks and you can push that out to once a week once you can see that the tank/cycle is established (but still keep up regular partial water changes - they are vital to the health of the tank and the fish).

 

[Cels13]

Thx askew70 for your great feedback. I meant to say in my first post that we took a sample of our tank water back to the shop after 10 days to get it tested before adding any fish. They confirmed it was perfect.

We have questioned 2 shops about maintaining tanks and caring for tropical fish before buying the tank and they both said that we only need to clean out water every 2 weeks or so. We are now finding this is SO incorrect. We have tried to clean the tank out twice this week and replaced the white filter but the water is still a bit cloudy. It must be the toxic you are referring to.

I will def get the two books you recommended this weekend and hopefully we will have the tank sorted soon.

Boogaloo, we got our tank at the sales - reduced from €680 to €480 plus accessiories and fish. Altogether it came to approx. €680. If you are thinking about buying a tank, do your homework first and don't get too excited when buying fish. Keep it limited to a small amount. We're learning the hard way here.

 

[blueshoes]

Hi guys,

I have a fish tank that i got a while ago.

Its just a small tank. I had 6 goldfish in it, the lady in the shop told me i should have the tank filled with water and the filter going before i added the fish.

so thats what i did, now four of the fish have died and there only about 3weeks old. Im very annoyed, i rang the shop and asked her about the water, fish etc.

She said oh dont be surprised if they die like what the hell?

Im a bit annoyed over it. I have two left in the tank now (all lonely)

I changed half the water every week and the filter. And replaced the water with cholrine free water.

What am i doing wrong? I dont want to buy any more fish in case they die

thanks blue

 

[askew70]

Thx askew70 for your great feedback. I meant to say in my first post that we took a sample of our tank water back to the shop after 10 days to get it tested before adding any fish. They confirmed it was perfect.

We have questioned 2 shops about maintaining tanks and caring for tropical fish before buying the tank and they both said that we only need to clean out water every 2 weeks or so. We are now finding this is SO incorrect. We have tried to clean the tank out twice this week and replaced the white filter but the water is still a bit cloudy. It must be the toxic you are referring to.

I will def get the two books you recommended this weekend and hopefully we will have the tank sorted soon.

Boogaloo, we got our tank at the sales - reduced from €680 to €480 plus accessiories and fish. Altogether it came to approx. €680. If you are thinking about buying a tank, do your homework first and don't get too excited when buying fish. Keep it limited to a small amount. We're learning the hard way here.

No problem. Beware of what you are told by people in the pet stores. Some of them know what they are talking about, many of them don't. You don't need a background in fishkeeping to sell fish so I guess it shouldn't come as much of a surprise that the quality of knowledge and information varies so much. I relied a lot on decent books, and websites, in the early days while I was getting used to being able to recognise those things that are normal for a tank and those things that are a sign of problems. It is mainly common sense but good reference sources really help - take everything you are told in the shops with a pinch of salt until you can get a second opinion. I was casually told by one pet store owner that he had lost about 40 fish in the first few months of setting up his own home aquarium - to him, that seemed to be an acceptable way to get started in fishkeeping, but to me that is a sign of someone who is ignorant and too lazy to address his ignorance. I never bought fish there again (in fact, his shop tanks were some of the worst I saw as he had several fish that were clearly ill/diseased and was very slow to remove dead fish from tanks too thereby risking the health of the other fish). Anyway, enough of my ranting...

As regards the water being cloudy, this is not necessarily a sign of a problem. In my experiences with my tank, there is often no visible sign of excess toxicity in the water (apart from the behaviour of the fish that is - if the environment is bad they tend to behave differently, sometimes more listless sometimes more manic depending on the fish), which is why test kits are so useful/important. The cloudiness could be caused by some of your tank ornaments, for example e.g. if you have a piece(s) of real wood in the tank this can continue to cloud/colour the water for weeks even if you have soaked it for a few days before adding it to the tank. Another possibility is that the cloudiness is caused by the filter in your tank as they settle in (e.g. the charcoal filter might be doing it). I'd recommend that you test the water yourself (test kits are generally in or around 15euro each and last a year or so) or get the shop to test it, to get a better idea of whether the water quality is really okay and take it from there.

As regards changing the water every 2 weeks, in a well established tank with a very well balanced environment and a low density of fish, perhaps that would be fine. However, I find that it is all too easy to tip the balance, by putting in excess food which is then left uneaten and therefore soils the water for example, so I stuck with once a week for a while (50% water change) before eventually moving to a second change mid-week of 25%. This seems to work well for my tank. I would recommend that you start with a 50% change once a week and tweak it once the tank has settled in.

It seems like a lot of work, and sometimes it is (I know that I under-estimated the effort that would be involved before I got my tank), but it is worthwhile so good luck with it.

Oh, something to be aware of is that although the Juwel tank instruction manual recommends replacing the white filter every week or so (or at least mine did), I find it more than adequate to rinse it every time I do a water change and put it back in - I rinse it in the water that I removed from the tank. I now get anything up to 6 weeks or more out of each white filter - I just replace it when it no longer comes out clean after a rinse. That saves money, and landfill.

 

[askew70]

Hi guys,

I have a fish tank that i got a while ago.

Its just a small tank. I had 6 goldfish in it, the lady in the shop told me i should have the tank filled with water and the filter going before i added the fish.

so thats what i did, now four of the fish have died and there only about 3weeks old. Im very annoyed, i rang the shop and asked her about the water, fish etc.

She said oh dont be surprised if they die like what the hell?

Im a bit annoyed over it. I have two left in the tank now (all lonely)

I changed half the water every week and the filter. And replaced the water with cholrine free water.

What am i doing wrong? I dont want to buy any more fish in case they die

thanks blue

Have a read of the link that I posted above re the nitrogen cycle. If that is not established before you add fish to the tank then the fish will have to endure extreme conditions until the cycle does kick in. Some species of fish are hardier than others so some of them don't survive in those circumstances.

You need to know whether the quality of the water is okay to know how to tackle the problem so either get yourself some test kits (from the pet store) or bring some of the water to the pet store and ask them to test it. There are basically a number of possible reasons that the fish are dying, including disease, water temperature, aggressive fish, excessive feeding, etc., etc. Only feed them as much as they will eat in about 5 minutes, and keep an eye on the fish to see how they behave. In the meantime, test the water (for ammonia, nitrates, and pH at the very least - that is three different test kits unless you find a kit that tests them all in one go).

 

[Leo]

Loads of advice and a forum available at AquariumAdvice.com

 

[Cels13]

Thx askew70 and Leo for your great feedback. Since I've posted my last message, a few of our fish sadly died. We have got multi-task treatments for the remaining fish as we seem to have a few diseases (white spots, cotton wool effects, bulging eyes). We are changing the water twice a week and the filters once a week for now. Sure, it is hard work and costly but we want to get the tank right and keep our fish alive .

My partner went into the shop yesterday where we got the tank and the assistant was quite helpful. He actually pointed out the problems started after we bought some fish from a different place and added them to the tank with the other fish bought from the tank shop... Good point! (We won't be buying any more fish from the other shop again). This assistant also said not to buy any test kits as he will gladly test our water for us on a weekly basis until we get sorted. Great!

I have a question for askew70 - how often and how much would you feed the fish? At first, we were giving them 3 or 4 pinches of tropical food twice a day on account of the number of fish we had (some fish are greedy than others so we felt sorry for the little ones who were barely getting some or none of the food) then we reduced it to once a day. Yesterday the shop assistant told us that we should limit the food to one pellet per one fish because there are so much stuff in each pellet, e.g. throw in 25 pellets for 25 fish... That seems very little to me but is he right?

 

[askew70]

Hi Cels13,
Introducing new fish into a tank is always a problem. Fish carry diseases around (much like any species I guess), but under normal conditions their systems are robust enough not to succumb to those diseases. But, when fish get stressed, they are much more prone to diseases that might always be present in the tank. Moving a fish to a different tank is stressful for both it (mainly) and for the other fish already in the tank, so it leaves all of the fish prone to falling ill - add in the "new" diseases that the new fish is carrying from its previous tank and you have a potential disaster on your hands.

The recommended approach when you buy a new fish is to put it into a separate quarantine tank for a week or two, enough time for any diseases it may be suffering from to become apparent. If it shows signs of disease, you can treat it independently of your existing fish - it is generally better to avoid dosing healthy fish with medicine while dosing ill fish as it could do the healthy fish more harm than good. Sounds like you, like me, don't have a second tank so we just have to be extra careful about which fish we buy and hope that it works out well. As you say, being selective about where you buy is a very important part of that - you get a good idea about how "good" a pet store is by dropping in regularly over the course of a few weeks and looking at the state of their tanks (are they clean, do they all have air being pumped in, are they overcrowded, etc.) and the fish themselves (do they look permanently agitated, are there any dead fish in the tanks, do any fish show signs of illness such as white spot, fungus, etc.). A good rule of thumb is never to buy a fish from a tank containing a dead fish or ailing fish. If you point out a dead fish to a member of staff and they don't seem to care about removing it, then don't buy from that store (if they leave the dead fish there, any disease that might have killed it gets a better chance to affect the others, and eventually the other fish will eat it and potentially spread the disease that way too). It is all just common sense really but some of it only becomes apparent after you have had to look after fish yourself and learn to spot things that look odd. Even then you can be unlucky but at least you have taken all feasible steps to minimise the risk to the fish.

As regards test kits, it is a matter of personal choice whether you are happy to keep going back to the pet store to have the water tested, but personally I prefer to have the means of testing the water whenever I want to (mind you, my preferred pet store is a 30 minute cycle away, which means getting it tested by them in a hurry is not practical for me anyway). The main question really is what tests are the pet store carrying out? I found test kits for nitrates and ammonia very useful (essential even) and test kits for nitrites and pH useful at the start but less useful over time as the tank settled down. I also got a test kit for iron when I was trying to trace problems with (lack of) plant growth in my tank but not crucial for the fish health as such (almost certainly not a test that a pet store will carry out for you though).

Re feeding: there are varied views on this including some that say feed the fish only once per day. There seems to be a common consensus for feeding twice a day but the amount varies. The two suggestions that I have seen recommended most often are to feed your fish as much as they will eat in 5 minutes or 10 minutes. I use the 5 minute suggestion and it works well in my tank. It is always a good idea to watch your fish eating too, so that you can spot those that look ill and/or don't/can't eat - it is an more interesting way than most of spending 5 minutes twice a day. I think it is also a much more practical, and realistic, measure of how much you should feed your fish than most others.

Other things to consider:
- how long do you leave the tank lights on per day? Again there are differing views but I find that 10 hours on (14 hours off) per day works well. Leave them on too long every day and it can contribute to stressing the fish (it is completely different from their natural habitat at that stage). Also, match the "on" hours of your tank lights as closely as possible to daylight hours 'cos the tank will get some natural light during the day anyway so you don't want that to happen during the "off" hours of the tank lights if you can avoid it (you can't avoid it entirely, obviously, but you can minimise it).
- what is the temperature of your tank water? Each species of fish has a range of temperatures within which they are comfortable and anything outside of that range can cause them stress.
- do you feed them varied foods? Occasional live foods are very good for fish usually and a good approximation of this is frozen food which is available in more and more pet stores now. Frozen brine shrimp and bloodworms are a favourite of my fish. You can also raise your own brine shrimp from eggs, giving a genuine source of live food and these have been devoured by my fish anytime I have used them.

- I use StressCoat to de-chlorinate water that I put into the tank. This can also be used as a bit of a health boost for your fish (the side of the bottle tells you how much to add to the tank, per litre/gallon of water). If any of my fish are ill, I usually find that a 50% water change (perhaps once a day over several days if things are really bad) plus a dose of StressCoat is enough to sort it out - basically it restores a healther environment in the tank, leading to less stressed fish, resulting in healthier fish. I have had to dose my tank with medicine only twice ever 'cos nothing else worked to help an ailing fish (it worked, but I think it just prolonged the inevitable as the fish died anyway). I don't like dosing the tank, and I'd recommend avoiding it if you can, but there are certainly times where it can seem like the only choice.

 

[askew70]

Incidentally, for turning on and off the lights in your tank a plug timer is very useful. The regularity of the lights coming on and going off at the same time each day will be beneficial to the fish. If you turn them on and off manually, then it is more likely that the on and off times may vary each day and the irregularity of that can be stressful to the fish (as it would be to humans).

Also, when you change the water in the tank, do you leave the fish in there or take them out? I leave them in, and they don't seem to mind too much. Taking them out, by catching each of them in a net for example, can be extremely stressful to them. I use a siphon pump to feed the water into a couple of 10 litre buckets and this works well. You just have to be careful of the fish when using the siphon and when pouring the fresh water back in. As the water that you add in has to be as close as possible to the temperature of the existing tank water (otherwise it stresses the fish and can effectively kill them quickly if their is a significant difference in temperature), I use a spare thermometer to test the temperature of the new water as I fill up one of my buckets.

I presume too that you are adding enzymes to the water each week (I use StressZyme but there are several brands of the same thing out there)? This will keep the tank filter functioning and therefore help with toxins being removed from the water.