An Inconvenient Truth

[damien60]

Hi there, just watched this movie today. I must say its an eye opening piece of film. I never thought i would be able to sit through an hour and a half of film about climate change! (let alone with Al Gore presenting it). Not going to rant here but i think if any one gets a chance they should try to watch it when it comes out on dvd or read the book. Or if anyone has seen it what did you think?
Sometimes its easy to get caught up in pensions, mortgages, ssia's, tracker bonds etc i know i sometimes do...who knows one of the best investments 'might' be in our enviroment!

I agree with anyone who says that only governments can really make any difference, but is us who put them there. Maybe if the enviromental changes happening affected us more, maybe we would be alot quicker to act, and not brush this all off as mearly nature taking its course.

Just a few things i have started to do are:

1. I don't leave appliances on stand by.
2. I only boil enough water that i need.
3. Start a thread like this one.
4. Keep all rooms well insulated.
5. Switch off lights not needed.
6. Learn more about the things i can do to help the planet and save money along the way.

If anyone has anymore ideas i would be delighted to hear them.

 

[Superman]

I believe it is also available free on the Internet somewhere.

 

[ClubMan]

I want to read this first.

 

[GeneralZod]

It makes me concerned about a tipping point being hit and the gulf stream stopping and all the land based ice meltng over a short time. It has a series of shots of receding glaciers over the last 30 years. The evidence does seem to be building.

I hope that there's an emerging realisation (e.g. Stern report) that we need to integrate preservation of the environment into the economy.

I've read the sceptical environmentalist too and don't think there's necessarily a conflict. Meeting the threats should be based
on rigorous analyis of the scientifically gathered and peer-reviewed statistics.

 

[Guest127]

pumped insulation into the walls. fully insulated ( incl trap door) attic. switch off as many lights/appliances as possible. changed central heating system to 'pressure' system = loads of hot water, so installed a power shower to use this water instead of electric shower ( slight cheat here I do still have one electric shower in an on-suite, which will be requred during the summer) my electrcity bill is now under ( well under) what it was in 2002. I am not kidding.

 

[Gordanus]

HOw are you all on the Driving issue?? versus public transport/cycling? Orr id that more an effect of govt policy than individual choice?

 

[Superman]

HOw are you all on the Driving issue?? versus public transport/cycling? Orr id that more an effect of govt policy than individual choice?

As far as I'm concerned it's government policy - specifically Planning Guidelines.
Even small towns should have buildings consisting of 4-5 storey buildings consisting of large apartments (say twice the minimum size required today) which should have separate living and dining/kitchen areas, plenty of storage, large (2x5m) usable balconies, communal facilities etc. (e.g. some apartment blocks on the continent even have additional large rooms run by the management committee which can be rented for parties etc.)
With densities like this, good quality public transport is far more feasible.
Also the concentration of population supports more social and communal facilities - community halls, swimming pools etc., local cafes and shops, which can be a trade off for developers building at these densities.

These higher densities, which mean people are living closer to the city centre, also means that a good separate network of bicycle lanes can be maintained.

One off housing should not be allowed except in exceptional circumstances.

 

[sunrock]

O.K. WE are looking at the prospect of global warming giving us ever warmer weather in ireland....some like that....except we seem to be getting an extra dose of rain as well.
Now we`re also facing the possibility of the gulf stream conveyor belt coming to a halt giving us bitter cold winters....brrrrr!
And this at a time when cheap energy is running out..
As i said in another post ,i`m all for insulation and energy saving measures.BUT nobody should reduce their energy use below their comfort levels,especially for warmth in the home just so those drivers of suvs get a few extra months driving as oil runs out!
We may have to consider moving to a country that has a better climate sometime in the future or our children will.there may be conflict with people already there but thats the nature of migration throughout history

 

[Gabriel]

Did it ever occur to anyone why Gore made this film? Politics of the future will be all about living within the confines of Gaia. Politics of the past has been all about the Industrial Revolution...ie the use (overuse) of natural resources. Future politics is about creating lifestyles which are rich yet do not harm the planet, as we have done during the past hundred years.

This is a most important century we are now in...one which will tip the balance and define the future of mankind. Anyone who doesn't believe that fails to appreciate the delicate balance between life and the planet. How long has there been crude oil on planet earth? How long did it take us to nearly deplete those reverves? How long have there been rainforests? How long did it take us to dwindle them to the point where they are now? Does anyone know the story of the Black Sea? Does anyone understand the consequences of growing population...of second and third world nations thirst for energy? What about international fishing and the techniques used to scrape the bottoms of the oceans and the impact this has had?

To be honest...whilst the individual effort is noteworthy and even sometimes worthwhile, if it isn't driven by government it will never be anything other than a needle in a haystack.

 

[sunrock]

The GAII theory talks of a self regulating earth.But surely ,as fossil fuels begin to run out/get very expensive the effects of fossil fuels on the environment will go into reverse,along with our standard of living.....talk of self regulating!!!
what`s this about the black sea?
I AGREE it is govs or rather lots of govs incl all the big boys acting in concert that is needed to make a difference. But the individual is only concerned about his/her immeadiate future.....and the politician must concentrate their energies on winning the next election....what would the voting public do if cowen said he was going to keep our billions surplus for our grandchildren?

 

[Gabriel]

The GAII theory talks of a self regulating earth.But surely ,as fossil fuels begin to run out/get very expensive the effects of fossil fuels on the environment will go into reverse,along with our standard of living.....talk of self regulating!!!
what`s this about the black sea?
I AGREE it is govs or rather lots of govs incl all the big boys acting in concert that is needed to make a difference. But the individual is only concerned about his/her immeadiate future.....and the politician must concentrate their energies on winning the next election....what would the voting public do if cowen said he was going to keep our billions surplus for our grandchildren?

GE...one of the biggest multinational corporations on the planet has recently said it will double its research from $750 million to $1.5 billion by 2010. This means looking at hydrogen fuel cells and clean aircraft technology. To be honest I'm thinking more of world leaders...be they corporation world leaders (who now fully realise that the existing business model is outdated and unsustainable) and world leaders who make a difference to global politics. I doubt Brian Cowen is going to change the face of Planet Earth in the next budget. Rather we will tow the line and meet certain criteria as it becomes clear what needs to be done...in other words we will fall in line with what other countries are doing.

We will have other sources of sustainable energy long before fossil fuels run out. That is the key to reversing the present course. China for instance has threatened to use huge amounts of coal power to power its emergent economy's thirst for power. This would be hugely detrimental to the worlds eco system unless viable alternatives are found.

Hydrogen fuel cells is one...as already mentioned. Nuclear power...something very few people know about (other than Chernobyl style plants) is another one of these viable alternatives. Fourth generation nuclear power is inherently safer and cleaner than its predecessors.

 

[sunrock]

Yes,there is a great danger that as oil and gas run out, countries will use up all their coal and other dirty fuels ,causing enormous pollution globally.
As humanity seems unable to reduce its use of oil/gas, what hope is there .... is there of persuading countries to reduce the burning of coal,especially as they will need to increase enormously this coal burning to just stand still as oil/gas runs out.
This will be a truly catastrophic time with accelerated global warming, melting of ice caps and flooding of lowland coasts from rising sea levels not to mention droughts and flooding and massive airborne pollution.
The best thing that could happen is we use up our remaining fossil fuels without causing damage .....if we could just make them disappear!
We could then discuss alternatives such as hydrogen fuel cells which may not be viable.
Surviving the next 200 or 300 years without too much damage to the environment is going to be cucial.
After that with fossil fuels used up,the greenhouse gas effect will recede and we can all take a deep breath ....of fresh air.

 

[Gabriel]

Yes,there is a great danger that as oil and gas run out, countries will use up all their coal and other dirty fuels ,causing enormous pollution globally.

Actually, China want to use coal because they have vast coal mines...not for any other reason.

As I said...depending on your perspective mankind is putting a great deal of effort presently into finding alternative fuel sources. It's highly unlikely that we'll run out of oil and then turn around and say..."What's next?".

If you study (and believe) what Scientists are saying at the moment the polar ice caps are already melting. For instance, the ice caps themselves started to melt from the top. But...many years back it was believed it would take a long time for a whole ice cap to melt. The reality is that warmer, melted water actually seeps down to the bottom of the ice...dislodging it and moving the ice out to warmer waters...thus accelerating the melting process. The flooding, and other weather changes are already happening (again if you believe the science).
It is also widely believed that we have already tipped the scales in such a way that no matter what we do (were we to cut emissions completely tomorrow) we will still face problems. It's a race now...a race against time that is more about limiting short term damage and getting Gaia back on track in the long term.

200 to 300 years is not realistic. It's this century that will define what happens to the planet. As a matter of fact the next 50 years are key to our existence.

I understand that there are still sceptics...but again...ask yourself why there is so much movement towards these technologies and why governments around the world are beginning to take emissions so seriously. It's certainly not driven by people...a lot of people are still quite ignorant of the implications of climate change....dwindling rain forests and dead seas.

 

[sunrock]

Actually, China want to use coal because they have vast coal mines...not for any other reason.

As I said...depending on your perspective mankind is putting a great deal of effort presently into finding alternative fuel sources. It's highly unlikely that we'll run out of oil and then turn around and say..."What's next?".

I understand that there are still sceptics...but again...ask yourself why there is so much movement towards these technologies and why governments around the world are beginning to take emissions so seriously. It's certainly not driven by people...a lot of people are still quite ignorant of the implications of climate change....dwindling rain forests and dead seas.

If you study (and believe) what Scientists are saying at the moment the polar ice caps are already melting. For instance, the ice caps themselves started to melt from the top. But...many years back it was believed it would take a long time for a whole ice cap to melt. The reality is that warmer, melted water actually seeps down to the bottom of the ice...dislodging it and moving the ice out to warmer waters...thus accelerating the melting process. The flooding, and other weather changes are already happening (again if you believe the science).
It is also widely believed that we have already tipped the scales in such a way that no matter what we do (were we to cut emissions completely tomorrow) we will still face problems. It's a race now...a race against time that is more about limiting short term damage and getting Gaia back on track in the long term.

200 to 300 years is not realistic. It's this century that will define what happens to the planet. As a matter of fact the next 50 years are key to our existence.

 

[sunrock]

Actually, China want to use coal because they have vast coal mines...not for any other reason.

As I said...depending on your perspective mankind is putting a great deal of effort presently into finding alternative fuel sources. It's highly unlikely that we'll run out of oil and then turn around and say..."What's next?".
...

Well i think its looking HIGHLY LIKELY , that as oil/gas becomes scarcer and hence the price becomes prohibitively expensive....people will be saying...what next?
Are you suggesting that mankind will effortlessly move from oil/gas to an alternative energy seamlessly.
CHINA OF course will use up its coal reserves causing chaos.......the fact that it has like many countries huge reserves of coal makes that inevitable......but china could buy a lot of coal from other countries if it had to.
Firstly, all remaining energy is likely to be super expensive,and secondly there will be no viable transportation fuel available...a fuel that has net energy output and doesn`t use up too much desperately needed agricultural land.
What has gaii got to do with it...the invisible regulating hand may turn out not to be so benevolent...just whaacking and flailling around blindly.
AND THE BLACK SEA?

 

[Gabriel]

Well i think its looking HIGHLY LIKELY , that as oil/gas becomes scarcer and hence the price becomes prohibitively expensive....people will be saying...what next?
Are you suggesting that mankind will effortlessly move from oil/gas to an alternative energy seamlessly.

Do you understand the consequences for the planet were this not to happen. The whole world is run on energy Whole civilisations would collapse if the transition does not happen *before we run out of oil. Up until this point the oil industry (some of these corporations are wealthier than most countries) have called the shots. But world powers are beginning to suddenly understand the impact both on climate on on *business if they don't make transitions...and quickly. Hence the huge amount of research being pumped into alternative sources for the automotive and aircraft industries.

The technology for hydrogen fuel cells already exists. What doesn't is the ability to mass produce fuel cells at a relatively cheap cost. Given the technologic leaps and bounds man has taken in even the last 30 years...it is only a matter of time.
Fourth generation nuclear power is already a viable alternative and one which some countries are already beginning to look at for the future. I believe Japan already have such a reactor in production.It's more about the logictics than the actual doing, in terms of moving whole industries across.

What has gaii got to do with it...the invisible regulating hand may turn out not to be so benevolent...just whaacking and flailling around blindly.

I'm sorry...can you rephrase this for me? I'm not sure what you're saying here.

AND THE BLACK SEA?

Google is a wonderful thing sometimes...and could probably tell you everything you need to know on the subject.

However, to give you some basic background. For thousands of years the Black Sea was a prime piece of fishing for Greece, Byzantium, the Ottoman Empire and Imperial Russia. Ceausescu essentially destroyed the filter that protected this sea...The Danube delta.
To cut a long story short...the Danube carried excess fertilizer from large numbers of farms into the Black Sea. This made algae bloom...causing a growth in zooplankton that feed on algae. These same creatures consumed the oxygen in the sea...this is called "eutrophication".
The Black Sea sheltered 170 different animal species. These were an essential part of the food chain. Eutrophication and industrial pollutants killed most of the fish and turned the sea into a stagnant pond.
There is far more to the story than this...but you begin to get the idea. The concept of keeping these types of places safe is known as "keeping the commons"....common tracts of land and sea that are vital to our future. This also ties in with the bottom trawlers I mentioned earlier - over fishing.

To be honest...the science behind all of this conversation is quite complex and understanding how it all hangs together requires further reading. I've only done a little. Politics and climate conservation are becoming more and more entwined. Which is why it's important to understand the delicate nuances of the reality of gaia...and exactly where it fits in...and how it reacts to changes.

 

[sunrock]

Interesting post gabriel.
I didn`t know about the pollution of the black sea.
For some reason i can`t quote sentences in my reply..the whole post comes up !
You have great faith in technology providing solutions to our impending energy shortage....you even hint that the oil companies who are calling the shots will be able to introduce these new energies as their oil/gas depletes.....they are now busy making sure the technology is not introduced prematurely ,no doubt.
I think there are great limitations to technology.
No doubt nuclear power plants will be built ..the technology for that already is used.
however hydrogen fuel cells use a lot of energy to make the hydrogen...where is this energy going to come from?
No doubt from nuclear power plants....thats a lot of nuclear power plants providing hydrogen for fuel cells for millions of cars.
The reality is they will be hydrogen and electrtic powered cars but the cars and the energy will be so expensive,that only the very rich can afford them.
Biodiesel can be grown,at agricultural land expense...and agriculture uses a lot of energy with tractors using diesel and fertilisers so its going to be very expensive also.
MY understanding of the gaii theory is that it seeks to portray the earth as a self regulating body....this is just wishful thinking...if like the black sea ..gets polluted..species die....thats just a sequence of events.

 

[Gabriel]

I think there are great limitations to technology.
No doubt nuclear power plants will be built ..the technology for that already is used.
however hydrogen fuel cells use a lot of energy to make the hydrogen...where is this energy going to come from?

Water actually....believe it or not.

The reality is they will be hydrogen and electrtic powered cars but the cars and the energy will be so expensive,that only the very rich can afford them.

Incorrect...GE have already built concept cars...and shown them...based on a chassis that is significantly cheaper to mass produce than modern cars. No petrol engine...no need. No clutch etc. As I said...it's fact that once the abiity to mass produce hydrogen fuel cells is achievable we'll all be driving them.

MY understanding of the gaii theory is that it seeks to portray the earth as a self regulating body....this is just wishful thinking...if like the black sea ..gets polluted..species die....thats just a sequence of events.

There's more to it than that.

I have great faith in technology...nanotechnology...biotechnology...these will play significant roles in the next 20-30 years and provide huge breakthroughs. If you look at the exponential advancement in human existence over the past 100 years it's clear where we're going. The down side to this is something called the' SINGULARITY'....something well worth looking into.

 

[sunrock]

Well we won`t be going anywhere without transportation fuel.
And i wouldn`t worry about the SINGULARITY, unless you`re going thru` the wormhole.

 

[ivuernis]

Do you understand the consequences for the planet were this not to happen.

Don't you mean the consequences for humanity were this not to happen? The consequences for the planet itself would be better served if we weren't around.

Water actually....believe it or not.

Perhaps, if it were not so highly inefficient to do so which is why almost all hydrogen produced today is derived from natural gas thus resulting in more energy being used to generate the hydrogen than the hydrogen itself releases.

Incorrect...GE have already built concept cars...and shown them...based on a chassis that is significantly cheaper to mass produce than modern cars. No petrol engine...no need. No clutch etc. As I said...it's fact that once the abiity to mass produce hydrogen fuel cells is achievable we'll all be driving them.

It may be a fact that the ability to produce cost-effective hydrogen fuel cells would lead to the mass production of electric cars but until cost-effective hydrogen fuel cells are viable the merits of the electric car over the internal-combustion powered car are still debatable. Even if/when the cost-effective hydrogen fuel cells is mass-producible we are still left with the problem of how to generate all the electric power that is required. Thus the whole hydrogen/nuclear debate ensues.

I have great faith in technology...nanotechnology...biotechnology...these will play significant roles in the next 20-30 years and provide huge breakthroughs.

What? The faith in technology to save us from ourselves? Thus far the increases in technology have mainly allowed us to grow at an unsustainable rate and consume the finite resources of the Earth in an ever increasing acceleration.