AMRF - Annual Managent Fees

Mijne said:

Steven

Thanks so much for your advice. I did feel 1.35% was too high. You really need to be informed before you meet a financial adviser. You mentioned there are 22 different charging structures available in the market. What kind of management fees do they rang from? Just so I can get an idea of what is out there. I really feel so ignorant on the whole topic. Is there anywhere I can get more information to learn more on AMRFs.

Thanks again.

Mijne

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SBarrett said:

This applies to the vast majority of once off payments such as ARF's, AMRF's, Single premium pensions.

You have an allocation rate - how much the insurance company will give you for your money. This is determined by the product, the term to maturity (in the case of pensions) and the amount.

In some cases, you can get an allocation rate of 105%, so the insurance company will pay an additional 5% for the business. The advisor may take some or all of that 5% as payment, it differs from advisor to advisor. It is not free money though. Over time the insurance company hope to recoup the money through the annual management fee. The management fee in this case will be 1% per annum (in Mijne and Gerry's case, there is an advisor fee paid on top of this 1%).

To protect themselves from you/ advisors taking the 5% bonus and moving it the next week, they impose early exit penalties for the first 5 years (they still don't recoup all of the bonus paid out after 5 years). I know of one insurance company who waived these early exit penalties and got stung for €20,000 when the client transferred out.

Then you have the other end of the spectrum, where there is no allocation rate. You pay the advisor fee (either write him a cheque or it can be taken directly out of your fund, you decide). As there is no commission to be recouped, the base annual management fee is 0.4% (plus whatever the advisor is paid for the ongoing work they do for you). Also, as there is no bonus allocations to be recouped, there is no early exit penalties.

There are plenty of other options in between depending on the charging structure that you want. Plenty of people prefer not to write fee cheques and are happy for the insurance company to pay with a higher AMC (not all have a base of 1%). others are happy to pay up front and have a lower AMC.


Gerry, Low allocation and high AMC doesn't look good. Find out if there are any early exit penalties on your contract. If there are, look at the paperwork you were given when you signed up, see if that contract structure was disclosed.

Steven
http://www.bluewaterfp.ie (www.bluewaterfp.ie)

Click to expand...

SBarrett said:

This applies to the vast majority of once off payments such as ARF's, AMRF's, Single premium pensions.

You have an allocation rate - how much the insurance company will give you for your money. This is determined by the product, the term to maturity (in the case of pensions) and the amount.

In some cases, you can get an allocation rate of 105%, so the insurance company will pay an additional 5% for the business. The advisor may take some or all of that 5% as payment, it differs from advisor to advisor. It is not free money though. Over time the insurance company hope to recoup the money through the annual management fee. The management fee in this case will be 1% per annum (in Mijne and Gerry's case, there is an advisor fee paid on top of this 1%).

To protect themselves from you/ advisors taking the 5% bonus and moving it the next week, they impose early exit penalties for the first 5 years (they still don't recoup all of the bonus paid out after 5 years). I know of one insurance company who waived these early exit penalties and got stung for €20,000 when the client transferred out.

Then you have the other end of the spectrum, where there is no allocation rate. You pay the advisor fee (either write him a cheque or it can be taken directly out of your fund, you decide). As there is no commission to be recouped, the base annual management fee is 0.4% (plus whatever the advisor is paid for the ongoing work they do for you). Also, as there is no bonus allocations to be recouped, there is no early exit penalties.

There are plenty of other options in between depending on the charging structure that you want. Plenty of people prefer not to write fee cheques and are happy for the insurance company to pay with a higher AMC (not all have a base of 1%). others are happy to pay up front and have a lower AMC.


Gerry, Low allocation and high AMC doesn't look good. Find out if there are any early exit penalties on your contract. If there are, look at the paperwork you were given when you signed up, see if that contract structure was disclosed.

Steven
http://www.bluewaterfp.ie (www.bluewaterfp.ie)

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Gerry Canning said:

Mijne,

I have an AMRF @1.35% , so that looks standard . (if too dear will some poster advise please)

Nowadays; the growth assumption on mine shows @ 2% .(again seems standard)
@60 your fund is very probably , low risk = low return. ie your money is protected.

From my ,albeit limited knowledge , it appears that this (quantative easing) has driven down potential pensions , add in the fact we are thankfully living longer , all our pension pots are being spread out over a longer time.
If you bought an Annuity pension today ,you would be stuck with low returns.
On an ARF?/AMRF the fund can keep growing tax free ,it stays 100% in your control and you need only take 4% per annum.
In other words you decide.
On what you post
I would be inclined to go ARF?AMRF route for now.
( I ain,t an expert)

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