American Justice and Strauss-Kahn

Hmmm there's a nasty vibe in the more liberal media. Lots of comments and opinion on how just because she had a dodgy past, it shouldn't mean she's free to be raped.

I couldn't agree more with that accept there was no trial, there was no proof of rape or assault. Just because he's rich and the ex-IMF head, doesn't mean the legal and moral process of innocent until proven guilty beyond a reasonable doubt doesn't exist.
 
oldnick said:
But I had a dream last night where I imagined watching TV news that the guy may actually be innocent -at worst guilty of a consensual quickie (with a corrupt/criminal hotel maid.)
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Strange dream - I don't know many women who find greying old men to be irresistible.
 
Complainer said:
Strange dream - I don't know many women who find greying old men to be irresistible.
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So because he's old and grey presume he imprisoned and raped someone without evidence? Really? Few names my partner would class as attractive men at their current age: Richard Gere, Robert Redford, Bruce Willis, George Clooney, Sean Connery. Are we to assume now that because they are old they will never have consensual sex?

Does your judging logic extend to because Schwarzenegger's housekeeper wasn't a looker we should assume there's no way he would have consensual sex with her?

Great use of liberal principles, he's old, of course he raped her.
 
Complainer - As an old man it's only in my dreams that young women find me irresistible, or that I can do much about it. That's probably why I always look forward to my afternoon nap.

Anyway, on a more serious note, my point was about US justice .....
Whether or not DSK is guilty ,the NYPD, DA, USmedia ETC had already judged and started to publicly punish him before any trial.
Wrong wrong wrong.
 
Latrade said:
So because he's old and grey presume he imprisoned and raped someone without evidence? Really? Few names my partner would class as attractive men at their current age: Richard Gere, Robert Redford, Bruce Willis, George Clooney, Sean Connery.
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Wow, that's some leap there, on a number of grounds. With all due respect, DSK is no Gere/Redford/Willis/Clooney/Connery. He hasn't spent decades making a glamorous career out of his good looks.
Latrade said:
Are we to assume now that because they are old they will never have consensual sex?
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Yet another huge leap. But if you want assumptions, here's one. It is reasonable to assume that any 60+ year old heavy greying man staying in a $3k per night hotel room will have consensual sex with a minimum wage immigrant maid. It's just a big stretch to see this as a relationship of equals, if for no other reason than she is almost certainly being paid a fixed rate per room, so she doesn't have time for messing around with the guests.

I've no idea what went on in that hotel. I haven't pre-judged anybody. It is possible, for example, that there was some mutual consensual financial arrangement between two adults. That would be much more realistic to me than the suggestion that she was suddenly overcome with lust for DSK.

I would find extremely suspicious if the charges were dropped before trial. If DSK plans any kind of career in the public view and if he is blameless, then it is in his interests for him to be publicly and openly cleared.
Latrade said:
Does your judging logic extend to because Schwarzenegger's housekeeper wasn't a looker we should assume there's no way he would have consensual sex with her?
.
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You can assume what you like. I haven't seen anything on this case beyond a tabloid headline or two, so I'm not going to comment.
 
Latrade said:
Hmmm there's a nasty vibe in the more liberal media. Lots of comments and opinion on how just because she had a dodgy past, it shouldn't mean she's free to be raped.
.
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I haven't seen that interpretation myself.

What I have heard reported is:

Her story has turned out to be inconsistent.
She has lied to the court

if this is true, it would suggest that she is an unreliable witness and they will be unable to base a prosecution on it.

I think it's clear from the approach of the prosecutors that they would like to prosecute. But if they don't have a case, they won't.

Brendan
 
Brendan, John Snow is just one commentator to say it. Numerous others have too.

Complainer, you're saying money has to change hands? I really think that as ALL charges are dropped you might want to be careful what you say. My examples were still old men, how do you know he's not very charming and good company? Can't women be attracted to that? Because I thought as far as gender stereotypes go, women wanted more than just looks. It's never happened before that a woman has had consensual sex with a man who wasn't that attractive? Because he was powed up and wealthy? Hugh Heffner? Gene Simmons? Both old, neither great lookers, both still sleeping with women. Are all their endeavours based on their power and therefore a form of rape?
 
Whatever about a trial going ahead there seems to be little forensic doubt that some kind of sexual encounter did indeed happen. Neither the prosecution nor the defense seem to take issue with that fact.

So his missus must be well proud of him then so, the virile old fecker!!
 

No, I'm not saying that 'money has to change hands', but I am saying that is one possible explanation. He may well be very charming and good company, but that doesn't explain having sex with a hotel maid. I'm sure that both you and I are also very charming and good company, but I'd hazard a guess that we've never had sex with a hotel maid. It just doesn't happen as a matter of course, well not in the world I inhabit anyway.

If you are a celebrity like Clooney/the Heff/Simmons, then perhaps groupies might be available, but what had DSK to offer, except money.
 
To be honest he was judged guilty from the off in my opinion - totally unfair. The latest about the alleged victim is that she is a hotel prostitute and DSK refused to pay her. He never denied that he had sex with her.

If that's the case, then she is the one who should be prosecuted for ruining his career and reputation!
 

And if the story is true and she was no good but still wanted to be paid then she could be charged under the Trade Descriptions Act
 

Of course you're right, when are you ever wrong? Let's have a sweeping generalisation that no women would ever consent to sleep with a less than attractive man unless they were in some way famous. Irrespective of all the women I know who have done so, you're right, no possible way it could happen, ergo all men (who aren't famous) over a certain age, below a certain threshold of attractiveness can only sleep with a women by force.

I'm absolutely sure that the then head of one of the most powerful organisations in the world wouldn't possibly have anything to offer.
 
Latrade, he's a rich and powerful man and he's part of the capitalist system. That's enough to make him guilty in the minds of some people.
 
Latrade said:
I'm absolutely sure that the then head of one of the most powerful organisations in the world wouldn't possibly have anything to offer.
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What percentage of hotel maids in NY have even heard of the IMF (or had heard, before this particular event)?

Latrade said:
. Irrespective of all the women I know who have done so,
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Do you know many hotel maids who get so swept up in the charm and good company of the room guests that they just have to have a quickie on the spot?
 

So now we're using generalisations to convict people?
 
DB74 said:
So now we're using generalisations to convict people?
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I haven't convicted anyone. That's usually up to the jury. Looks like they won't get the chance this time.

I wonder if the same energy and resources that have gone into checking up on the maid's background have also gone into checkking on DSK's background.

But seriously, do you know of any/many hotel maids who fall for the charm and good company of hotel guests?
 
Complainer said:
But seriously, do you know of any/many hotel maids who fall for the charm and good company of hotel guests?
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But it's not a normal situation. He's not a normal 60+yr-old man. He is/was a very powerful man in the world of international finance and French politics. I find it hard to believe that the maids don't know who the important guests are in the hotel.

And while I don't necessarily believe that she fell for his Gallic charm, there are other possibilities as to why consensual sex took place. eg potential blackmail, false accusations to ensure visas etc. Who knows?

But just because he is a old man doesn't mean the maid didn't have consensual sex with him, for whatever reason or motive.
 
Complainer said:
What percentage of hotel maids in NY have even heard of the IMF (or had heard, before this particular event)?
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Given there is absolutely no way either of us could actually quantify this, it's a complete and utter pointless question.

Complainer said:
Do you know many hotel maids who get so swept up in the charm and good company of the room guests that they just have to have a quickie on the spot?
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Actually: yes. And Bar staff and receptionists and other staff at hotels. All communicated to me from ex and current staff at hotels. It happens. It's a mad mad world where even those not blessed with looks or youth can still sleep with people.
 
Latrade said:
Actually: yes. And Bar staff and receptionists and other staff at hotels. All communicated to me from ex and current staff at hotels. It happens. It's a mad mad world where even those not blessed with looks or youth can still sleep with people.
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Could you PM me these hotels!
 
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