almost lost mortgage today

avontuur

Registered User
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53
Hi everyone,

My broker phoned me an hour ago to tell me that ICS phoned him today to say that they were going to reject our mortgage application! We've already been approved by them for over 2 months, we've been on their books for a month before that.
So they tell my broker that they're not happy with the fact that neither me or my OH are being paid through our bank accounts!
We dealt with all of this at the very early stages.
Anyway we have a very good broker and he argued our case, saying how our surveys with engineers is already done and we've just submitted our life insurance forms.
Through talking to managers ICS he re-secured our loan offer (god bless him!)
I understand its their money and they can refuse us if they please, but on tuesday they offered us their new FTB's package!
What is all that about? can they really be that awkward?!
 
Most likely your broker getting you to drawdown the mortgage quickly so he can get his commission in his back pocket. Sometimes our heros don't have our best intentions.
You should put a call through to ICS to confirm his story, I can't see them being flexible on their lending policies in this climate.
 
Most likely your broker getting you to drawdown the mortgage quickly so he can get his commission in his back pocket. Sometimes our heros don't have our best intentions.
You should put a call through to ICS to confirm his story, I can't see them being flexible on their lending policies in this climate.

Why is broker suspected & not the lender? That is quite a serious acqusation to make without proof- I bet you wouldn't use your real name to any correspondence making these claims- might just get you a day in court!

Amazes me the perception of brokers (who haven't spent millions on PR over the last 100 years like the banks to promote an image) in comparison to the banks?! I am now a broker (was a banker) and to be honest guys if you only knew how under handed & sneaky the banking system is from within you would be damn glad to deal with a qualified independent person to handle your dealings with them (particularly as in most cases it costs nothing extra)

These are the same banks that have been involved in how many overcharging scandals in the past 10 years? These are the same banks that increased the charges for over drafts, referral fees & return items by up to 50%, the same banks that are now taking an increased margin on all borrowings to boost their ailing profits, the same banks that move money around (7bn roughly) between themselves to hoodwink the Govt- and you guys still feel that it is safe to deal with them without someone assiting you?

With Irelands population of approx 4m people has anyone ever added up the amount of profit the entire banking sector were making & divided it by the population? To save you time- the banks earned profits of close to €16,500 for every man woman & child. Hard to do that without fleecing someone? And to be fair to them they managed all this and still have idiots who think that they know how to get good deals from banks without some form of professional help- cannon fodder!
 
No need to get so defensive Yellow Belly, and there's no need to be talking about bringing someone to court!
There's nothing at all wrong with what roro posted, and there's no doubt whatsoever that this has happened in the past.

All high horses should be left at the door before posting.
 
4,000,000 x 16,500 = 66,000,000,000 (?)

Did I get that right? What number is that? Is that 66 billion? Were our banking sector making that sort of profit? Or have I gone a zero too far somewhere?
 
Why is broker suspected & not the lender?

..... because neither is a charity, and they both sell financial products with the incentive of making profit either through a commission kickback or by charging interest or a fee for collecting and passing on product information thats readily available to consumers if one was to use a combination of a small amount of intelligence, a healthy dose of scepticism, and a revision downward of over optimistic expectations.

That is quite a serious acqusation to make without proof- I bet you wouldn't use your real name to any correspondence making these claims- might just get you a day in court!

.... Well my name is roro123, just like yours is Yellow Belly. Sure the courts might be full of those dastardly bankers being prosecuted, I might never get my day in court and anyway I have a very good solicitor and he could argue my case and save the day (god bless him!)

I am now a broker (was a banker) and to be honest guys if you only knew how under handed & sneaky the banking system is from within you would be damn glad to deal with a qualified independent person to handle your dealings with them
That is quite a serious acqusation to make without proof- I bet you wouldn't use your real name to any correspondence making these claims- might just get you a day in court!


(particularly as in most cases it costs nothing extra)
Yes , thats true, it costs nothing to talk to a broker or financial advisor or a shop assistant for that matter, but transact some business and hey presto , there is a magic invisible slice given to the middle man in the transaction, namely upfront commission from the sneaky Bank , a fee for the financial advisor in lieu of the commission from the sneaky Bank, or an hourly wage for the shop assistant.
I think people really need to not only understand what they are committing to but how the brokerage system works and how independant the advice is when there's business transacted through a broker.
I'm sure there are people who work in banks who view what they do ,as best for their customer, as well as those that spin yarns to close a deal.

and you guys still feel that it is safe to deal with them without someone assiting you?
Well if they trust you to sell their products for them......


Hard to do that without fleecing someone? And to be fair to them they managed all this and still have idiots who think that they know how to get good deals from banks without some form of professional help- cannon fodder!
Thank god there is someone out there to protect us from ourselves.
I agree, any idiot who thinks they are getting a good deal from a bank or an agent of the bank(s) should seek professional help but not the kind you offer.
Brokering out business suits the banks on many levels. They have agents on commission, they don't need to cover pay and conditions or pensions or holiday.. the list goes on. All they needed to do was to offer the broker a discount introductory rate to sell on to the client. No wonder the rates were higher dealing directly with the banks, they obviously need to cover those employee related costs. The broker then shows the client which bank (a broker can act on behalf of many banks) offers the best value for the client at the time. The client says "Wow" , the broker says "Phew" and the Bank says "Che-Ching!"
Fast foward 2 and a half years later when the introductory rates expire , then client says "How?" , the broker says "Who?" and the bank says "Che-Ching!".

cannon fodder!
Sniper fire has the same outcome.


I am now a broker (was a banker)
You are still a banker, only an outsourced version of one. There's no "Road to Damascus" here, just a conflict of interest.
 
avontuur---congrats anyway, i know what your going through, nearly happened to us as well, we have to get re-approved 3 times ( lovely builders taking their time to build the house )

Not too get into the broker/banker issue and who's the big bad wolf...............but to roro123 i dont blame the broker one bit for wanting to get his commission after all the work that he has done if the sale doesn't go through he doesn't get paid anything!!! The broker i used did his job and then some getting us re-approved for the final time before we purchased the house. And i was and always will be grateful for him from the bottom of my heart, i even got presents for him and his family!! If i had done this myself and not used a broker i wouldn't in a million years of been able to sort it out myself. So to me he was my hero and even if that was partly due to him wanting to get paid i dont hold that against him one little bit.
 
Hey everyone
didn't mean to cause such a huge debate!
Pope john11, as regards my previous thread i've pulled out of that sale after taking the advice of my engineer and all the good people at AAM! Am now persuing a new house which i got for the same price as the old. Said this to the bank they were happy enough cos all they had to change on their paperwork was the address.
I will have to say in my brokers defense, he's been great from day one, really helpful with every aspect of buying and he's been available 24/7! I really think that if i was dealing with the bank myself in that situation i wouldn't know what to say or do and would of walked out of their office crying!
I phoned ICS myself and was told that the "problem was rectified" But from here on in they were not accepting applicants who are not payed through their bank accounts by their employer.
I think thats a load of twaddle especially when they were already shown proof of savings and proof of earnings.
Thanks for the sympathy samanthajane!
 
Well my name is roro123, just like yours is Yellow Belly. Sure the courts might be full of those dastardly bankers being prosecuted, I might never get my day in court and anyway I have a very good solicitor and he could argue my case and save the day (god bless him!)

What's his name Lynn or Byrne?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Yellow Belly http://www.askaboutmoney.com/showthread.php?p=818517#post818517
I am now a broker (was a banker) and to be honest guys if you only knew how under handed & sneaky the banking system is from within you would be damn glad to deal with a qualified independent person to handle your dealings with them

That is quite a serious acqusation to make without proof- I bet you wouldn't use your real name to any correspondence making these claims- might just get you a day in court!

Difference is pal- I do have the proof!!! Worked there for long enough.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Yellow Belly http://www.askaboutmoney.com/showthread.php?p=818517#post818517
(particularly as in most cases it costs nothing extra)

Yes , thats true, it costs nothing to talk to a broker or financial advisor or a shop assistant for that matter, but transact some business and hey presto , there is a magic invisible slice given to the middle man in the transaction, namely upfront commission from the sneaky Bank , a fee for the financial advisor in lieu of the commission from the sneaky Bank, or an hourly wage for the shop assistant.
I think people really need to not only understand what they are committing to but how the brokerage system works and how independant the advice is when there's business transacted through a broker.
I'm sure there are people who work in banks who view what they do ,as best for their customer, as well as those that spin yarns to close a deal.

So where do you purchase your financial products then? In a bank with no staff, where they sell you all products without taking any profits?
Have you ever tried using a broker who isn't paid by commission? If he/she isn't paid a commission from the providers recommended what "sceptical" reason could you put forward for choosing such institutions?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Yellow Belly http://www.askaboutmoney.com/showthread.php?p=818517#post818517
and you guys still feel that it is safe to deal with them without someone assiting you?

Well if they trust you to sell their products for them......

Who said I "sold" products for them? Not all brokers are choose to receive commission from institutions. Ever heard of fee based advice? I do agree with some of the points you make with regard to some insurance & mortgage brokerages where clearly products were recommended based on commission levels rather than the quality of the product, however there must be a clear distinction made between "multi agency advisors" whom can only "advise" on the products of those companies with whom they hold agencies, and "authorised advisors" who can advise on the broader, entire market on a commission or fee paying basis- giving the client the choice.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Yellow Belly http://www.askaboutmoney.com/showthread.php?p=818517#post818517
I am now a broker (was a banker)

You are still a banker, only an outsourced version of one. There's no "Road to Damascus" here, just a conflict of interest.

I actually agree with some of this statement in that alot of what I do is similar to banking however I take huge exception to the conflist of interest acqusation- as you have never used my services therefore you are not qualified to make this assumption or allegation. I operate fully independently of all institutions, and receive my income from fees for impartial opinion, and advice from my professional knowledge. I assist people with the purchase of financial products on a nil commission basis, and due to this will negoatiate increased allocation rates on investments & pensions. How am I operating with a conflict of interest to my clients?
 
for what its worth, we've always used brokers for our mortgages (5 in total, over the years - and now we're done!) and they were excellent. Our broker rang us last year and got us to switch to tracker rates on two properties and saved us a small fortune! I'm sure - like any other business - that there are bad brokers out there, but I wouldn't even think about going for a mortgage without one.
 
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