AIB Aib ex staff - getting €1,650 compensation

You would have to wonder when the contracts went from letter of sanction to letter of offer in 06/07 why the “fixed” wording did not change at that point. When did the word “static” come into play?? Was it ever in a contact? Is it now in contracts?
It all seems too convenient to me that they removed us off a fixed rate without a breakage cost .... almost to keep us sweet, and make us believe we were better off and very quickly then passed the responsibility back on us to look after our rates. Be very interesting to see how many people never knew that it was up to yourself to look after your rates and were in fact not better off. Definitely More to this switch than meets the eye anyway.

Track2019 said:

I'm just wondering if you think AIB will take into consideration BIK paid on a staff preferential rate when calculating write down/interest refund or is it even relevant?

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I think they have to especially for the interest refund calculation. The calculator posted on ABM is excellent however like you I’m in cohort and would have been charged BIK at different stages throughout term of mortgage. The calculator only allows for published rates. My interest rate at times may have been 3% staff rate but it meant I paid tax on that (benefit) through my salary. It’ll be interesting to see what AIB calculate this real rate to be and to the best of my knowledge it would also depend on what tax band you were on.

There is a lot of confusion and woolly thinking on this issue. Some people have told me that their colleagues who were on the Staff Preferential Rate got the redress letter. I have explained it all at length in this Key Post


And I repeat the summary here

Summary

Most AIB Staff had two mortgage accounts.

• A staff preferential rate
• A non-preferential rate

These are two completely separate mortgages and are treated completely differently.

If you had a non-preferential rate, you are subject to the exact same treatment as any other customer.

• If you had Clause 3.2 in your contract and
• If you fixed your mortgage rate at any stage (either at the start or later on)
• If your fixed rate ended between October 2008 and 2013
• and If they did not offer you a tracker mortgage

You will have got the €1,615 and you will be getting the 12% write down and interest refund on your non-preferential rate mortgage

If you had a Staff Preferential Rate and moved to the Commercial Variable Rate and stayed on it, you are not in the Prevailing Rate cohort for this part of your mortgage.

AIB is claiming that the Prevailing Rate is a variable rate. And therefore Clause 3.2 did not apply. A few customers have made complaints to the Ombudsman on this issue. If the borrowers win, I would expect AIB to apply it to all staff.

If you had a Staff Preferential Rate and subsequently fixed at an ordinary non-preferential rate, you are in the Prevailing Rate Cohort
Again, you must meet the following criteria:

• You had Clause 3.2 in your contract and
• You fixed your mortgage rate at any stage (either at the start or later on) and
• Your fixed rate ended between October 2008 and 2013 and
• They did not offer you a tracker mortgage

You should have got the €1,615 and you should get the 12% write down and interest refund.

Nobody got €1,615 just because they were on the Staff Preferential Rate.
They got it because they subsequently fixed at a non-preferential rate.

I repeat. AIB denies that the Staff Preferential Rate was a fixed rate. Anyone who moved from that rate to an ordinary non-preferential variable rate is not in the cohort for this mortgage. If they got €1,615 it's because the other part of their mortgage qualifies.

So if someone tells you that they were on the staff preferential rate and they got the letter telling them that they would be getting a 12% write down on their capital, it is either because

A) They had an ordinary fixed rate on their non- staff preferential mortgage
B) They moved from the Staff Preferential Rate and subsequently fixed at an ordinary non-preferential rate.

They are not getting a write down just because they were on a staff preferential rate.

Brendan

Hi Brendan, I understand it, but can see why staff are confused. A lot received the €1615 and thought they were in scope.
There are 2 types of contract in staff business also as well as the 2 accounts.

1. Letter of sanction
2. Letter of offer

Letter of sanction that does not have the 3.2 clause in terms & conditions. Letters of sanction were up to around 2007. Therefore do not qualify. Harsh. As the terms & conditions were v poor with a Letter of sanction.

Then the other scenario is after 2007 they were Letter of Offer and had the 3.2 clause but never were on a fixed rate. Staff rate is not a fixed rate therefore do not qualify.

I still think most staff would have always believed the staff rate was the best rate, I find it very convenient that in 2009 they decided staff must look after their own rates, and then in 2010 there was a lower fixed rate available that I believe most staff were unaware of. It would be very informative if we knew what percentage of staff never moved onto this fixed rate.

Zero123 said:

Hi Brendan, I understand it, but can see why staff are confused. A lot received the €1615 and thought they were in scope.
There are 2 types of contract in staff business also as well as the 2 accounts.

1. Letter of sanction
2. Letter of offer

Letter of sanction that does not have the 3.2 clause in terms & conditions. Letters of sanction were up to around 2007. Therefore do not qualify. Harsh. As the terms & conditions were v poor with a Letter of sanction.

Then the other scenario is after 2007 they were Letter of Offer and had the 3.2 clause but never were on a fixed rate. Staff rate is not a fixed rate therefore do not qualify.

I still think most staff would have always believed the staff rate was the best rate, I find it very convenient that in 2009 they decided staff must look after their own rates, and then in 2010 there was a lower fixed rate available that I believe most staff were unaware of. It would be very informative if we knew what percentage of staff never moved onto this fixed rate.

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We were on this staff ‘preferential’ rate...mortgage approval at end of 08. Assumed also that the staff preferential rate was just that and would be better than any other rate offered by the bank so left it while fixing the other portion of our mortgage in 2009. Would have absolutely fixed the staff portion had we realised that:
A) it was indeed a variable rate as the word fixed was used over and over in our contract.
B) that the staff preferential rate was indeed not all that preferential if the bank had lower rates.

new member said:

We were on this staff ‘preferential’ rate...mortgage approval at end of 08. Assumed also that the staff preferential rate was just that and would be better than any other rate offered by the bank so left it while fixing the other portion of our mortgage in 2009. Would have absolutely fixed the staff portion had we realised that:
A) it was indeed a variable rate as the word fixed was used over and over in our contract.
B) that the staff preferential rate was indeed not all that preferential if the bank had lower rates.

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Thanks for that example, proves my point .. u thought u were on a better rate being on the staff rate. Didn’t opt to change this Rate but did on your other account.
I suppose we are always been told assume nothing....
was 2009 the first time ever staff had to manage rates themselves? I see Brendan said previously the staff rate exists since 1960, is that correct?
If you opted for the fixed rate on the staff account and had the 3.2 clause you would be now getting the 12% on the higher part of your mortgage. Up to €190k.

Zero123 said:

Thanks for that example, proves my point .. u thought u were on a better rate being on the staff rate. Didn’t opt to change this Rate but did on your other account.
I suppose we are always been told assume nothing....
was 2009 the first time ever staff had to manage rates themselves? I see Brendan said previously the staff rate exists since 1960, is that correct?
If you opted for the fixed rate on the staff account and had the 3.2 clause you would be now getting the 12% on the higher part of your mortgage. Up to €190k.

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Yes assume nothing.
The €190k was the lower part in our case but yes still rather annoying. If those who have already brought this before the ombudsman win their case in that the staff preferential was indeed a fixed rate I believe we will he added to the cohort.
Hard to see how a ‘variable’ rate remained unchanged i.e. fixed for 50 years If the 1960 date is correct. Will just have to wait and see.

new member said:

Yes assume nothing.
The €190k was the lower part in our case but yes still rather annoying. If those who have already brought this before the ombudsman win their case in that the staff preferential was indeed a fixed rate I believe we will he added to the cohort.
Hard to see how a ‘variable’ rate remained unchanged i.e. fixed for 50 years If the 1960 date is correct. Will just have to wait and see.

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Well I think you have a very strong case considering you actually did opt for fixed rate on the other account. Very evident u didn’t change the staff rate thinking it was more beneficial to you. I didn’t , and I am Letter of Sanction so don’t have the 3.2 clause. But I genuinely feel staff are getting the short straw here.

Is there anyway of knowing if there even is active complaints with the Ombudsman regarding the staff rate and the fact that it is referred to as a fixed rate numerous times within our letter of offer and the fact now that AIB Staff Business are trying to claim we were on a static rate and not a fixed rate!
It doesn't even sound right!

Hi Emily

Yes, I can confirm that I am helping two separate people with their complaints.

Both are finished the mediation stage.

In one case, questions were submitted to AIB and AIB has answered those questions. The complainant has now responded to AIB's response.

The other has just completed mediation and is in the queue.

It would be no harm if others made complaints as well.

Brendan

Brendan Burgess said:

Hi Emily

Yes, I can confirm that I am helping two separate people with their complaints.

Both are finished the mediation stage.

In one case, questions were submitted to AIB and AIB has answered those questions. The complainant has now responded to AIB's response.

The other has just completed mediation and is in the queue.

It would be no harm if others made complaints as well.

Brendan

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Thank you Brendan, really appreciate your guidance and will follow same.

When do u expect a decision on these Brendan? It’s a very long process.

Zero123 said:

When do u expect a decision on these Brendan?

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There is no timeline. It will probably be next year.

Brendan

emilybee said:

I agree 100% that the staff rate is a fixed rate as it refers to same in the special Conditions as being a fixed rate .
Where we have clause 3.2 in our Letter of Offer stating we are entitled to be offered a tracker why was this not actioned when the end masse move happened in 2009!
We should have been offered a Tracker...AIB Staff Business need to admit they had a service failure with their Staff Mortgages!!

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If you look at the distance marketing page of the Loan offer pack it states that "Home flex is a preferential home loan of up to €190460 at a fixed rate at present 3%" Also if you look at the last line in Clause 3.2 the bank states "Interest from the date of resignation or dismissal will be charged on the mortgage loan at the banks advertised variable home mortgage loan rate." This sentence does not state standard variable. I have a case with the FSPO where I am challenging the contract wording and the fact that they had a number of variable home mortgage loan rates such as LTV tiered rates in addition to the standard rate. If it was to be a standard rate it should have clearly stated that.

Zero123 said:

Thanks, I could understand that. Do you think staff have a case and it’s worth appealing or would you think that it is a closed subject and plenty of staff probably have appealed at this point.

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Get your case to the ombudsman. The more the merrier. I have one with them over 18 months now and I left AIB 4 years ago. They are fighting hard to not give in but the more cases with the ombudsman the better as he can see all the slight differences those sneaks changed in the contracts from 06 onwards.

Brendan Burgess said:

Hi Emily

Yes, I can confirm that I am helping two separate people with their complaints.

Both are finished the mediation stage.

In one case, questions were submitted to AIB and AIB has answered those questions. The complainant has now responded to AIB's response.

The other has just completed mediation and is in the queue.

It would be no harm if others made complaints as well.

Brendan

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Hi Brendan, They didnt engae with me at mediation so after 8 weeks I opted to go full investigation on the case

What should happen at mediation stage?

I saw the article in the independent where a man got 20k write down on his mortgage & due an interest refund of €6k.
A further refund years ago because of payment protection€1800 and further one over a loan top up. This is crazy. All the mistakes.

Yet they still won’t reimburse their staff who know well the staff rate was fixed, why does it have to be such a lengthily process for them to admit the mistake.

Hi

I have both a Staff mortgage and a Tracker mortgage
I contacted staff business today in relation to the staff mortgage. The advisor stated the mortgage was like the thread had mentioned a variable mortgage. He stated we were only informed of changing our rate in Jan 2009 due to BIK only.
He said we could have changed to a Tracker at any stage (when it was available) and it wasn't up to them to advise us to do that. He also stated that the Tracker rate was never lower than the staff rate of 3% during the years it was available.
He said AIB are totally correct in saying no staff mortgages at the preferential rate will be investigated.