Advice on Wooden Windows

What totally amazes me that we have had 20 very good posts on this topic and nobody has mentioned one of the most important points on timber/wooden windows is the timber that they are goint to be made from.

Iroko is the highest grade of teak that comes into Ireland (which is quiet scarce in supply at present), it is the one that is most suitable to the climate that we live in.

We have a damp atmosphere whereas on the continent they have dry crisp atmosphere therefore different timber species preform differently in different parts of the world.

So please please check which type of timber is being supplied in the quotes that you have before you decide.

RedDeal/Softwood will have a lifespan of aprox 10-15 years if very sheltered and very well cared for (if you wish to have the natural pine look it will only last for about 5 -10 years before turning very dark.

Hardwood (iroko) will be still there in 30 years +.

Remember it is an investment you are making and that windows and doors are the living part of your home - you look out through, open and close the windows each day and open and close the doors to get in and out of your home each day - invest wisely.

Have a read of the Hardwoods and Softwoods brochure in the attached website, it makes interesting reading. We must all educate ourselves and spend our hard earned money wisely.

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Maybe ONQ can comment on this but I was talking to an Architect recently and he said it is better to have north facing glazing triple glazed and all other elevations double glazed in terms of cost savings.

I would definitely be interested to hear more about the type of wood...MJ predominantly use iroko whereas nordan, ecoglaze etc. use nordic pine or spruce

Patrick2008,
I too heard that it is better to have triple glazing on the north facing side of a house, and also slightly of topic, that if you plant evergreen trees on the north and western sides with decidous trees planted on the south and eastern side this will make a difference to the amount of energy needed to maintain heat within a house. The evergreen provide shelter during the winter and the decidious trees with their leaves gone allow your house to make the most of the short winter sun. There does seem to be some logic to it but I'm not sure if there would be significant savings but possibly.

amh

Its pretty easy to find out if triple glazing on the north facade (or any facade) will save you money, just have your BER assessor input it into the BER model he has made for your design. It is fairly easy to swap window types in the software and each change will give you a different heat load, etc.

BER certs are not something to do at the end of a build 'because you have to', the software should be used to evaluate every alteration which you are considering, be it insulation levels, glazing, heating system, etc. It is an invaluable, and fairly accurate, design tool if used in the proper way. I may start a thread on this point when i get around to it, if no one else does first.

Here is a table outlining the recommended timbers for Ireland, for various uses:

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Hi Brigid,

I am going to get a quote from carey....seen them being used on grand designs recently (programme from belfast) and the windows looked great

Regarding the tilt and turn windows...my only problem with these is that they open inwards and therefore are a nuisance when it comes to having vertical blinds etc. (I'm not going to spend a fortune on windows and then screw blinds into them).....maybe there is another solution out there????

Thanks

I got a quote from carey joinery and met with their sales person. The quote was very competitive and the meeting was very informative. Very good advice on timber choice, glazing options etc. and not trying to over sell the more expensive products.

Definitely worth serious consideration IMO

As far as I know they use mahoganny/sapelle, iroko would have a much better lifespan if you can get it.

That is interesting BMD - didn't meet the sales person but the quote came in about 8K below MJ. I did speak to them over the phone and the person assured me that the wood came from sustainable sources and that they checked up on that side of things regularly - and I understand that they also do use Iroko. they have recently opened up a showroom in Cork I think.

They use Iroko or treated pine...whatever you prefer

A word of warning about using unvarnished, unpainted Iroco on exposed sites or marine environments.

Although its classed as a hardwood and has been compared to teak I have seen problems arise in certain cases.

It supposedly has certain carconigenic properties:http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iroko_%28hardwood%29

Mind you, I wasn't aware toxic qualities of beech, birch, oak or pine or redwood either:

http://www.degutopia.co.uk/degutoxic.htm

Some days it seems that nothing is "safe".

No doubt all the carpenters reading this will head off for an MRI scan tomorrow.

ONQ.

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All advice on AAM is remote from the situation and cannot be relied upon as a defence or support - in and of itself - should legal action be taken.
Competent legal and building professionals should be asked to advise in Real Life with rights to inspect and issue reports on the matters at hand.

Never mind that, wait until there is a serious problem with all the MDF dust & residue in future years. A DIY'ers saviour to many problems except it is the next Asbestosis.

On topic, Carey's are probably the CARLSBERG of window suppliers at the moment. They provide most of the glazing units in the country and their sister joinery company has a pretty good reputation on its own.

IMO they are the yardstick for window providers.

Hi Sconhome,

Nasty to hear about the potential respiratory problems with MDF dust, especially since I have never see it being collected safetly even in a workshop situation, just operatives with masks.

And of course when the stuff is being sut in back gardens for house extensions near other back gardens where children are playing, its just let blow on the wind.

ONQ.

[broken link removed]

All advice on AAM is remote from the situation and cannot be relied upon as a defence or support - in and of itself - should legal action be taken.
Competent legal and building professionals should be asked to advise in Real Life with rights to inspect and issue reports on the matters at hand.

Hi Sconhome,

I want to get some advice from you regarding window sizes and how they can/should be hung.

We have spec's for a few windows which are 1200 mm wide and between 1300-1500 high.

Some of the window suppliers say that they can do this with a top hung casement, however others say that the dimensions are too big for the hinges and that the only options would be tilt/turn or to put a mullion down the middle and split the window in two.

I would appreciate any feedback you might have on this

The window suppliers are correct. The design will bepend on the style of the house, give us more details and we might be able to help. ie is it two store, bungalow, modern design or traditional etc.

There is alot of weight in the double glazed units thus the hinges would not be able to hold it up plus a window of those dimensions with no break up would not look great unless ultra modern.

You could ask for "Load Pro Hinges" if going for big sashes, they are designed for the extra weight, naturally enough they are dearer.

The house is a two storey, going for a traditional farm house look but not with sash windows as airtightness is a must for HRV system. The large windows are both on the 1st and ground floor.

In general we are going for side swing casement window with a bar across the middle to resemble traditional sash windows.

I am a little confused as to why some suppliers say they can go with top swing while others say the the window would be too heavy for top swing and therefore it would have to be tilt/turn or a a mullion

If we were to split some of the windows so that the top half opened but the bottom half remained fixed, what would be the minimum size the top half would have to be regarding fire safety?

At the end of the day fire safety will be my primary concern and will go with a tilt/turn if necessary however I'm not a fan of them because of the impact on blinds/window boards etc.

The windows will be triple glazed

Fire safety First:

All bedrooms need a clear unobstructed opening of 450mm x 450mm MIMIMUM. The bottom of the window opening should be not more than 1100mm and not less than 800mm above the floor (600mm in the case of a rooflight).

Design:
Your house is traditonal, but unfortunately your sizes don't suit the traditional look windows, pity your architect did'nt have the foresight for this problem, I have seen it so many times and it is such a shame for style traditional houses.

I would imagine that a french style window would suit you best, divided down the centre with a vertical glazing mullion, you could have this with a centre mullion or if you wish to have a slimmer effect to the centre go with no centre mullion.

A window with a top hung sash will look wrong with the dimensions that you have.

PM me if you wish.

Hi NHG,

Thanks for this. Our design is very much bespoke in that the design allows for every room in the house to have a south facing window.

I may not have been specific enough, the front of our house (north facing) is very traditional looking with small windows, however we have quite a lot of glazing to the back (south facing) which includes bi-fold doors, roof lights, large windows etc. to make the best use of the sun and also to take full advantage of the great views.

The larger windows to the back look good and I wouldn't compromise the other aspects (sunlight/views) to accommodate a completely traditional house with small windows throughout.

Based on the information regarding the fire regulations we will probably have to go with the french style windows or a tilt/turn

Perhaps I will PM you with my window schedule to get your advice

Any salesman, saying, that ALL of their windows/doors have the SAME U value - tells lies. You are told the U value of the glass unit, but not the U value of the entire product.

Every window/door from the same manufacture has different U value, depending on size and amount of openings.

You should be given the U value for your project and breakdown for each product.

p.s. proper fitting usually helps as well.

Patrick2008 said:

Maybe ONQ can comment on this but I was talking to an Architect recently and he said it is better to have north facing glazing triple glazed and all other elevations double glazed in terms of cost savings.

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Patrick,

My apologies for missing your post.

I am not subscribed to any threads - I usually just look at the boards regularly and catch the questions as they arise.

The question you ask is a a bit of a loaded one because while you can certainly make the argument on solar exposure, there are many other factors to consider.

However winter is the time that glazing insulation pays for itself and while some solar gain is available that might justify a lesser specification to the south, heat costings doesn't rely on window specification alone - house design plays an important part.

After the sun goes down - which depending of local overshadowing and topography can be for as much as 18 hours a day or more, window specification doesn't seem to count for as much it is the housing weatherproofing and sealing, building plan proportion and orientation, prevailing wind, exposure/sheltering elements on site and the ambient temperature in the locality that matters.

We live on a hill and the temperature can drop up to two degrees between us and houses in the town below.
We are also on the north facing part of the hill with two story houses uphill and to the rear of us restricting our available direct south light in the winter months.
Previously we lived on the south face of a quarry and we had marvellous south light all your around, assuming the sky was cloudless, and even when it was cloudy there was significant solar gain.

So let's consider your window specification vs location proposal.

The winter is the time when increased insulation specification comes into its own.
It is also the time when there is least sunlight, perhaps only 75% of the day is lit at all in the depth of winter.
This winter we have seen -3 and -4 where we are - unheard of previously during the daytime - and dense cloud cover seriously reducing the amount of solar gain available.

But with glazing the amount of heat getting out is at least as important as the amount of heat being allowed in.
So at night in minus 8 (!) bigger windows of any specification let out more heat than smaller ones, and double glazing lets our more heat than single glazing, all else being equal.

As I posted previously on this thread, you can sink your money into high performing components, and yet not acheive as much savings as you could by good design.

In the present case, yes you could install triple glazing to the north elevation.
But you could also design the house to eliminate most of the windows that face north and by simply omitting hi-spec north facing windows you could save a fortune AND ensure the house retains more heat.

I hope that sheds some light (sic) on the subject for you and thanks for asking


ONQ.

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All advice on AAM is remote from the situation and cannot be relied upon as a defence or support - in and of itself - should legal action be taken.
Competent legal and building professionals should be asked to advise in Real Life with rights to inspect and issue reports on the matters at hand.