podgerodge
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There have been a few threads here (and mainly thanks to Early Riser who is the clear expert on this!) where it is mentioned that in some cases, supplementary pension (at age 60) is being actuarily reduced in the same manner as the reductions detailed in the CNER tables. It's very hard to get clarity on this, but I think most people would agree that it is illogical given that it doesn't kick in until after 60.
CNER is dealt with by Circular 10/2005 - which does state that "17. Supplementary pensions, where appropriate, will be paid to persons availing of
cost neutral early retirement on reaching the relevant preserved pension age (60 or 65 years, as appropriate)."
But it does not clarify whether the actuarial reduction should apply to supplementary pensions at 60. Nor does it say it does and therefore not applying it should be default in my uneducated view!
I came across this "Cost neutral early retirement: supplementary note to Department of Finance" relating to 10/2005.
It states:
"As you are aware, a new facility for public servants to retire early with immediate payment of actuarially reduced superannuation benefits was introduced in April 2005 by means of Department of Finance Circular 10/2005 (Public Service Pension Reform: Introduction of cost neutral early retirement). This note provides information and clarification on various points arising from the Circular which have been raised by officials and potential applicants across the public service."
In the document, in Section 5, it states:
"5. Supplementary pensions/Implications for Social Welfare benefit: There is no change in the arrangements for payment of supplementary pensions i.e. such pensions are payable to eligible staff on reaching the relevant preserved pension age (60 or 65 years, as appropriate). If the person is a member of a pension scheme which is subject to integration with social welfare benefits, you should clarify for them the conditions under which a supplementary pension may be payable when they reach preserved pension age. Staff should liaise with the Department of Social and Family Affairs to ensure that, where appropriate, social insurance “credits” are recorded. Failure to do so (in the case of full PRSI staff) could have implications for the payment of supplementary pensions. In this connection the sample letter to be given to a person availing of cost neutral early retirement has been amended (copy attached)."
The "sample letter" referred to above includes the following statement in relation to CNER: "This means that, on retirement, you will receive immediate payment of lump sum and pension, both of which will be actuarially reduced." The sample letter was actually amended to include the following wording which did not exist in the original sample letter: "If, on reaching preserved pension age, you consider that you may be entitled to a supplementary pension, then you should contact this Department/Office/organization at that time."
Nowhere does the new sample letter or the supplementary note imply that the supplementary pension is affected. The wording that "there is no change to arrangements for payment of supplementary pensions" in a document relating to CNER, surely implies that the full supplemental pension should be paid at 60.
Perhaps I am talking nonsense or suffering from unconscious/conscious bias!
Happy to hear thoughts on this.
CNER is dealt with by Circular 10/2005 - which does state that "17. Supplementary pensions, where appropriate, will be paid to persons availing of
cost neutral early retirement on reaching the relevant preserved pension age (60 or 65 years, as appropriate)."
But it does not clarify whether the actuarial reduction should apply to supplementary pensions at 60. Nor does it say it does and therefore not applying it should be default in my uneducated view!
I came across this "Cost neutral early retirement: supplementary note to Department of Finance" relating to 10/2005.
It states:
"As you are aware, a new facility for public servants to retire early with immediate payment of actuarially reduced superannuation benefits was introduced in April 2005 by means of Department of Finance Circular 10/2005 (Public Service Pension Reform: Introduction of cost neutral early retirement). This note provides information and clarification on various points arising from the Circular which have been raised by officials and potential applicants across the public service."
In the document, in Section 5, it states:
"5. Supplementary pensions/Implications for Social Welfare benefit: There is no change in the arrangements for payment of supplementary pensions i.e. such pensions are payable to eligible staff on reaching the relevant preserved pension age (60 or 65 years, as appropriate). If the person is a member of a pension scheme which is subject to integration with social welfare benefits, you should clarify for them the conditions under which a supplementary pension may be payable when they reach preserved pension age. Staff should liaise with the Department of Social and Family Affairs to ensure that, where appropriate, social insurance “credits” are recorded. Failure to do so (in the case of full PRSI staff) could have implications for the payment of supplementary pensions. In this connection the sample letter to be given to a person availing of cost neutral early retirement has been amended (copy attached)."
The "sample letter" referred to above includes the following statement in relation to CNER: "This means that, on retirement, you will receive immediate payment of lump sum and pension, both of which will be actuarially reduced." The sample letter was actually amended to include the following wording which did not exist in the original sample letter: "If, on reaching preserved pension age, you consider that you may be entitled to a supplementary pension, then you should contact this Department/Office/organization at that time."
Nowhere does the new sample letter or the supplementary note imply that the supplementary pension is affected. The wording that "there is no change to arrangements for payment of supplementary pensions" in a document relating to CNER, surely implies that the full supplemental pension should be paid at 60.
Perhaps I am talking nonsense or suffering from unconscious/conscious bias!
Happy to hear thoughts on this.