Acting up in Civil Service and returning to lower paid substantive post before retirement

november16 said:
There appears a difference between Fixed and variable allowance and how they are pensioned, fixed being more favourable.
Click to expand...

I think it may be the other way around. The variable allowance is more favourable for pension purposes:

"The value of the fixed allowance to be included in an individual’s final pensionable remuneration will be based on the average annual amount of that allowance paid to the employee during the 3 years of reckonable service immediately preceding their last day of service....

...The value of variable allowances to be included in an individual’s final pensionable remuneration will be based on an average of the variable pensionable allowances received in the best 3 consecutive years in the 10 years preceding retirement, uprated to the date of retirement. The most favourable 3-year period, resulting in the highest allowance amount, will be included in final pensionable remuneration."

november16 said:
Civil servants can be in receipt of higher duty allowances for decades, ASC deducted, but pension contributions, not deducted and higher duty is un-pensioned. Union bizarrely allow this money saving tactic, by the civil service. It’s a racket.
Click to expand...

Are you sure about that? It would be very unusual for civil servants to be disadvantaged versus the wider public service. I think this Circular applies to both? https://www.gov.ie/pdf/?file=https:...457408d9ac24104adb2d561f42adcec.pdf#page=null

november16 said:
Could you provide information re the retention of the acting allowance if in receipt for 5 years that would be very helpful
Click to expand...

Only in relation to teaching. I am not sure if it extends beyond that. See 2.1 here https://circulars.gov.ie/pdf/circular/education/2000/42.pdf
 

It is interesting. But it relates to a person employed in a more senior role under a fixed term contract. This is not generally the case in an acting up situation. Fixed term contract employees have specific rights ( https://www.citizensinformation.ie/...ployment/rights-of-fixed-term-workers/#b96346).
 
Hi ruffian, thanks for the circular. Is this just for teachers and education higher duty workers though. It may now apply for other workers in Public sector HSE etc but I think “Temporary”HigherDuty allowances in civil service which continue for years may not always be pensioned unless agreed or negotiated locally.

I am aware of a colleague, public sector, Solas, previously Fas, one of many people, who for several decades, carried out the acting duties, with allowances unpensioned, and were regularised, in the higher grade posts eventually, this was finally resolved as they were in the process of going to the WRC. I believe this was a relatively recent change on behalf of the public sector approx 2015 and changes public sector, but not the civil service.

Teachers are treated differently regarding their acting, supervision, Principal allowances, they are pensioned. I understand they were always pensioned. There are considerable differences between public and civil service in treatment regarding pensions and variable pensionable allowances.

Civil servants cannot avail of the WRC so would be unable to resolve this discrepancy through this mechanism.

I had asked the question regarding the difference between variable and fixed allowances on site but did not receive a response at that time . It appears and I will stand corrected that the variable allowance only uses a net figure eg as in my case ref variable pensionable allowances.

I believe strongly that there are differences, which I have been trying to have resolved for decades. I do believe the reason that certain civil servants, are disadvantaged re higher duty allowances, by comparison to those in public sector in receipt of acting allowances.

I have asked these questions, through the union and Management, pensions, HR in public and civil service since 2008, when I was a public servant. I am now designated as a civil servant and I see this work in practice. I have seen exceptions though whereby employees bring a case of C.I.D. and I am always trying to seek facts from those who are knowledgeable, in particularly the civil service area. I thank you for your information and input.
 
Hi @november16

I can't answer your query. But just to clarify something. Is this an "acting up allowance" in which someone at Grade X is appointed to Grade X+1 on an acting up basis only - getting the title/designation of the more senior grade and carrying the responsibilities of the grade while in post?
Or is it one in which the person at Grade X is asked (or agrees, or is designated) to take on some additional duties while maintaining their own duties at Grade X. I am aware of people getting an allowance in the latter situation, sometimes referred to as "additional duties allowance" or "extra responsibility allowance". Such allowances may or may not be pensionable. Any may be variable or fixed (with differing pension implications).
 
Full Acting up duties in my case to H.E.O. continuous, taxable, permanent, asc paid its called temporary. Management a lot to answer for in this instance. My colleagues carry out the same duties have fully pensioned allowances.
 
november16 said:
Full Acting up duties in my case to H.E.O. continuous, taxable, permanent, asc paid its called temporary. Management a lot to answer for in this instance. My colleagues carry out the same duties have fully pensioned allowances.
Click to expand...

Very odd.
How did you come to be appointed A/H.E.O? Was it a case of "Good morning november16, you are moving to A/HEO starting from next Monday"?
Or were you asked if you would prepared to move to A/H.E.O? Was a timeframe, or compensation, or terms and conditions mentioned by anyone?
 
Last edited:
Just revisiting this for my colleague. They would be employed in the Education sector.

Since the 5 years of acting, the person they were acting for, resigned as they did not return after a career break. My colleague's contract was extended for another year, to facilitate a re-organisation of the organisations structure.

The additional pay has attracted pension contributions.

I would expect from the posts and circulars above (feel free to correct me) that on retirement, the acting allowances paid over the past 3 years would be averaged. Just to check that it is the last 3 years (which I expect is the case) and not the best 3 of the past 10 years acting.

With the pay scales, the impact of the full 3 years would increase the pension by 15% approx. A significant ongoing difference.

The supreme court case is also interesting, this is another interesting and more detailed commentary on the Power Vs HSE case. https://www.lawlibrary.ie/viewpoints/power-v-hse/

I realise there is an issue with the thread title and I said Civil Service and I meant Public Service, however it brought out some interesting differences that I hadn't known.
 
Last edited:
Is there no scope for a Contract of Indefinite Duration (CID) if you are acting-up in Public Service for more than 3 years?
 
This refers to Principal/ Deputy principal: An acting post holder who holds the post in excess of 5 consecutive years will retain the acting up allowance on a personal basis.
https://www.tui.ie/conditions-of-service/promotional-posts.160.html

Circular 11/2024 refers to C.I.D.

Extract out of date but maybe helpful:

How does a teacher get a CID? Key Points under circular letter 24/2015
  • A teacher will qualify for a Contract of Indefinite Duration (CID) after a period of continuous employment in excess of two years – ie upon commencement of a third year of continuous employment, subject to certain conditions. This is significantly better than the statutory provision and improves the initial position negotiated under the HRA. (Under fixed-term worker legislation the qualifying period is four years and under the HRA it had been 3 years for teachers).
  • Hours held by a fixed-term teacher who is covering for a teacher on career break or for a teacher on secondment will now be counted towards their CID. The teacher will be placed on a redeployment panel immediately prior to the return of the teacher on career break / secondment. In such circumstances the teacher will remain in receipt of his/her income/salary.
  • The hours of the CID will be the hours worked in the full school year prior to the issuing of the CID (i.e. the qualifying year), regardless of the source of the hours.
  • A teacher who has qualified for a CID after two years will be liable for redeployment if their subjects become surplus to the curricular requirements of their school.
  • Where a qualified teacher holds a part-time CID and is working additional hours under a separate fixed-term contract, they will receive a CID for these hours after a continuous period of employment (in the hours) in excess of one year, if the hours continue to be viable and available under the allocation.
  • All teachers on their first fixed-term contract will have their positions terminated at the end of year 1. The position will automatically be re-advertised and a new recruitment process undertaken. Therefore, the teacher will need to apply for and interview for the position at the end of year 1.
Entitlement to a CID - for all or some of the hours worked - does not accrue in circumstances where there are legitimate ‘objective grounds’ for the fixed term contract. Under circular letter 24/15, covering for a teacher on career break or secondment is no longer considered to be an objective ground for not awarding a CID.
In addition, if a teacher holds a CID for at least 18 hours per week and agrees in writing to be timetabled up to 22 hours per week, s/he will then be timetabled and paid for 22 hours per week. (See CL 11/09)
If a teacher is of the view that s/he has an entitlement to a CID, in view of the above information, and has been refused a CID by management, there is right of appeal to the Adjudicator under the terms of CL 30/2018 . There is also a right of appeal to the Adjudicator if you have received a lesser number of hours in your CID than the number of hours held in the third year. There is a four week period from the date of refusal/receipt of the CID to appeal to the Adjudicator. All appeals should be processed through TUI Head Office. There is also an option of having refusal of a CID dealt with by a Rights Commissioner who will consider whether the legal entitlement to a CID under the terms of the Protection of Employees (Fixed Term) Act 2003 has been denied. There is a six month time frame for lodging such complaints. These complaints should be processed through TUI Head Office. It should be noted that under the Act entitlement to a CID arises on the fourth anniversary of appointment.





Login - Irish National Teachers' Organisation

www.into.ie
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Menu
Log in
Register