Accountancy Fees

piano said:

I am operating a small/medium business (sole trader) with about 10 staff.The business has a turnover of about 900k.
I have inhouse book keeper who prepares everything for accountant. He has come back to me with a bill of €5000 for end of year returns. Am about to fall off my chair. He will not negotiate nor justify the bill. I am at a loss as to what I can do. Please advise.

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What was the bill in previous years, and is there any reason that you know of why the job would have been any more laborious this year for the accountant?
What does your letter of engagement say about fees and the basis for calculating them?

piano said:

I am operating a small/medium business (sole trader) with about 10 staff.The business has a turnover of about 900k.
I have inhouse book keeper who prepares everything for accountant. He has come back to me with a bill of €5000 for end of year returns. Am about to fall off my chair. He will not negotiate nor justify the bill. I am at a loss as to what I can do. Please advise.

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Hi piano,

If your bookkeeper is decent, which i'm guessing you know he/she is, you should be only looking at a fee of €1.5 - €2.5k.

Do they keep the accounts on a software package?

Turnover doesn't come into it as much as people like to think - esp if all entries are performed by a bookkeeper.

Ask your accountant for a breakdown of the time input into the job - broken down between accounts prep, taxation and any other items (ongoing queries during the year).

Also compare their final accounts to the trial balance your bookkeeper produces - for level of adjustments.

PM me if you want a quote for next year from our firm.

Outrageous fees.

Ask your accountant for a full breakdown of hours spent on job and by whom i.e trainee/qualified/partner. Go through trial balance and final accounts with bookkeeper for list of adjustments. Ask to meet partner and bring your bookkeeper with you to view list of adjustments and errors.

Contact other accountants in your area for an outline of their hourly rates and compare them to current accountant. In my practice i give an estimate of fees prior to commencement, half way through assignment i check for fees overrun and the reason why. If it is down to client i contact client and give them a chance to correct them themselves, if on the other hand it is down to me than i take the hit.

There is a good few new practices starting up where fees are alot cheaper. In my case in was set up a pratice or go on the dole. I am happy to earn a weeks wage similar to what i was earning as a paye worker so that is what i base my hourly fee on.

Good luck and pm me if you want a quote.

He has never provided us with a letter of engagement. I recently took over the business from my mother and as a result inherited the accountant. Crazy fees were always his mandate and my mother just paid him as he was a family friend and money was plentiful. But things are not so good now and fees like this are just crazy. I know that the amount of work he puts in is very little. Our book keeper worked for years in a firm and is as good as an accountant herself and is so very diligent. I know the work he prepares for our accountant is excellent. Its basically his figures he uses and plugs them into a template and away they go. (Ok maybe I am a little biased but you know what I mean). Very little changes. But we have had several mistakes in our end of year accounts which has meant our accountant making amendments after they were submitted for 2010 and 2011. He never gives us a letter of engagement. But his refusal to give me a clear breakdown of the time spent is what baffles me. If he charges that amount and can back it up, I will pay him no questions asked but I knwo its not the case. And his answer that his fee is his fee is just ridiculous in this day and age. Anyone any advise for me. I appreciate anything you can suggest.

Sounds to me like he is clinging on to the "celtic tiger" way of doing business.

I would suggest paying him something on account- say 50% and include a covering letter saying that you are withholding the balance subject to you receiving a full breakdown of the charges, and agreeing a final figure based on this breakdown.

It is not good enough for him to just say "It is what it is" or words to that effect.

I would plus one Callybags suggestion on the paying 50% for the time being and asking for a breakdown.

Definitely change accountant.

I really don't understand this attitude from other accountants - much better to have a client for 10 years @ 2k than for one year @ €5k. No way any soletrader should be paying near that level unless their records are a complete shambles.

Would your bookkeeper be capable of doing the return? Or are they not comfortable on the tax end of things?

If the accountant is checking the figures I can't see why there is then changes retrospectively to 2010 and 2011??