Just me?There's just you claiming the upper echelons of the RC church were in on the act all along. A simple reading is that nobody other than a handful of bishops who should have known better (but were either ignorant or misled about the recidivist nature of the crimes involved) knew the scale of the issue even at individual diocesan levels. When it started to become obvious in the late 90s that there was a hideous problem of world-wide proportions, the church took steps at the highest level to address it.
Just me?
Just a handful of Bishops?
Sure.
Did none of the thousands of clergy talk to each other?
The church did not deal well with the sexual abuse of children which was perpetrated by the clergy, what more needs to be said.
Except of course that the Irish people if they had any moral courage would demand that the church be excluded from any role in education.
That would be fine if accusations were not being that he is supporting clergy accused of child abuse.Exactly right. It was horrendous. Now let's move on.
No argument from me there. The Pope has screwed up very badly in this case (although Bishop Barros has now resigned, no thanks to Francis). There's another case in which he reversed a decision made by Benedict and reinstated an Italian priest, only to have to sack him again after a civil conviction. I don't have much confidence in Francis.That would be fine if accusations were not being that he is supporting clergy accused of child abuse.
I am of course talking about Bishop Barros in Chile.
Most of the country wouldn't have an education were it not for the church.
The RC church should negotiate its exit in return for being allowed to operate Catholic schools for those who want them. With their current pariah status I think there's a risk that religious education will be banned altogether.
I would certainly like to see religious education banned completely.
Its not ok to teach your children that there is an omnipotent, omniscient God and I (the priest rabbi, mullah, or indeed parent) have his teachings.
I don't think removing the teaching of religion in the context of a particular faith development is authoritarian, unless you regard the American Constitution authoritarian in nature.You're reinforcing the conviction I've had for some time -- that Irish secularists are more authoritarian than the church they love to hate.
I think a constitutional amendment would be a less dramatic path to take and would end up with the same result.Unless and until you install your own dictatorship, it is not only ok, it is an inalienable constitutional right.
The State acknowledges that the primary and natural educator of the child is the Family and guarantees to respect the inalienable right and duty of parents to provide, according to their means, for the religious and moral, intellectual, physical and social education of their children. (Bunreacht na hÉireann, Airt. 41.2).
I don't think removing the teaching of religion in the context of a particular faith development is authoritarian, unless you regard the American Constitution authoritarian in nature.
I think a constitutional amendment would be a less dramatic path to take and would end up with the same result.
They acknowledge that freedom of religion also means freedom from religion. This State funded schools are not bound to any religion.The US constitution says nothing about banning the teaching of religion, quite the opposite in fact.
Sure, the idea that in a Republic people should have a real choice about what religion their children are taught or not taught; how tyrannical!The fact that anyone can even imagine such a thing tells me our democratic principles are at an all time low. When the State starts telling you what your children may be taught, we will have full blown tyranny.
I would certainly like to see religious education banned completely.
Sure, the idea that in a Republic people should have a real choice about what religion their children are taught or not taught; how tyrannical!
Fair enough. I took cremeegg's post to mean the banning of teaching religion, in the context of a particular religious ethos, in schools.Ok. I'm not going any further down the rabbit hole with someone who can't tell the difference between freedom of choice and prohibition.
Its not ok to teach your children that there is an omnipotent, omniscient God and I (the priest rabbi, mullah, or indeed parent) have his teachings.
You're reinforcing the conviction I've had for some time -- that Irish secularists are more authoritarian than the church they love to hate.
Would it be authoritarian to say that its not ok to teach children that jews should be gassed.
I don't believe secular humanism even has a consistent framework, but I'm open to discussion.
The abortion question clearly shows that life does not admit consistent rational ethics. To destroy a potential human life is wrong, to force a woman to have a child against her will is wrong. If you can reconcile those for me you might convert me.
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