A thread to help new (Overseas Property) investors?

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POD1

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Having spent quite sometime looking at this forum over the last few years and particularly again in the last few weeks certain things worry me:

1)All to often people are basically defending their own investment decisions.

2)People with vested interests are defending their decision to operate in a particular country.

3)Some people it seems would rather die than to admit they might have been the slightest bit wrong in their assumptions.. eg: changing their view point to saying that a particular area is good to buy a holiday home as opposed to an investment.. frankly we all could use such an argument about any area.. rental yields are probably not that good in Monaco however if I have 50 million and I'd like to live there then great. Happy days..

I have been involved in property for 3/4 short years and have done reasonably well. Made money on every deal so far which is more than you can say about most businesses.

What worries me is that if I had never invested in property before and read the posts on this forum I don't think I'd risk a penny on property of any description. Not to mind borrowing money to do so.

Only for property of various description's many people posting here would not have the financial security they have. I can easily say this is true for me.. happy to admit it..


In the long run we all know that property investment will be profitable if done based on sound fundametals no matter what country you try to do it in.

Yes the basics must be learn't but that just takes some commitment and good hard work.

On that note I would like to suggest that this post be of help to people considering property investment as something for them..

Any frequent posters want to start off with some basics which help them to get to where they are today..

I would hope this post would be non confrontational and non promotional..

Looking forward to everybody sharing their expertise..

Anyone like to begin..
 
Re: A thread to help new investors?

I don't think so. It's been done to death, hasn't it? Why invite everyone to post the same thoughts over and over again?
 
Re: A thread to help new investors?

My mantra is
'The day you buy is the day you sell'

If you dont have an exit strategy dont get involved. If there is not a good second hand market there is no market. You must be able to sell and get your money back should you need to, be it after 1 years or 1 day. This is a huge risk in some places people are touting on here at the moment.
 
Re: A thread to help new investors?

I understand where you are coming for and I guess this thread may be a result of auto and travelbug defending spain and bulgaria when to others ;the areas are not of investment opportunities at the present time.

But you can only learn where to invest sometimes by learning where not to invest. So that is why those threads are important because if bulgaria say were a viable investment opportunity you would not see such a defence from the VI's if the facts on the ground did support them.

I am quite happy with my investment decisions and the fact that a thread on this forum does not slate the area i know i have made the right decision.

And that is what the potential investors should really be trying to find out about.
 
Re: A thread to help new investors?

My mantra is
'The day you buy is the day you sell' BarryO

An excellent point.

I have seen friends of mine walk into estate agents taking the price on the window to be gospel. If you do nothing else before starting to invest in property or indeed buying your own home then realise this is the price the agent wants you to pay for it. was probably guilty of this when I began myself. I'm sure I paid 5K too much on my first deal due to a crafty agent.

Agents are ususally hardened pro's often with large portfolios themselves. They see new investors or homebuyers as "easy money" and will be more than willing to call your bluff. This is what they get paid to do and they have been doing it well for a while.

This is why you must take the business as a pro from day 1. Otherwise you are gambling on the market going up. Not a good idea in current markets as you can see from other posts.

To give you an example I was interested in a site in Co.Limerick with outline planning. I had worked out that I could pay 45K for the site to make this particular self build project work. ie: I had a certain percentage profit in mind based on the market staying as it was even though the market was increasing at 14% approx I had no guarantee things would go this way.

The agent told me there was loads of people intersted and would not take an offer under 55K. I told him basically I could not afford to do that and that I could offer 40K. He more or less told me what to do and refused the offer or so I thought.

6 weeks latter i got a call and we settled in the end for 45K..

At the time I wondered was I passing up the opportunity of a life time.. Now I realise it was the best lesson I learned and offer well below the price the agent wants no matter how much they protest. Sometimes this works and propably most times it doesn't but when you do end up buying something with profit already built in..

Lesson1)Don't believe the hype.
Lesson2)Toughen up and negotiate
 
Re: A thread to help new investors?

Hope this is useful Clubman?.. just want to get everybody involved.

Also I agree with what you say Amarin.. just think posts should be slightly more personal including experiences good and bad..

Ps: I bought a studio in St.Vlas about 18 months ago and realise now this may not be the best move I ever made.

On that basis I would not recommend new investors to invest in the Black Sea Coast or Ski resorts if they intend to make any money especially as the first step to making money in property.In fact my experience there helped me to advise my aunt not to invest a large part of her savings there as she was new to investment and thought she was going to be counting the rent landing in her bank account each month.

As part of a larger portfolio it might be ok as risk can be balanced over all properties.

I have to admit I did not due all due diligence there and did not negotiate properly and looks like 've made a mistake in the shorterm. However, nothing to put me off investment in general and lesson learnt.

Still don't think I'll lose money there but will not grow as I originally "thought" not researched and I suppose thats the main point here.
 
Re: A thread to help new investors?

What a brill idea POD.
I read the posts on this forum almost every day as we hope to soon be in the position to invest in property somewhere.
We have never owned anything apart from our own home and I am trying to educate myself on the in and outs of the foreign property market.

I do agree with you that too often threads end up with the same few posters arguing the toss over certain locations or investments and as you said basically defending their own decisions.

I would love to read more of peoples personal stories - be they good or bad. Sometimes the threads get so technical that you would need a degree in economics to follow whats going on - but thats OK its all a learning curve.
 
Re: A thread to help new investors?

Amarin said:
I understand where you are coming for and I guess this thread may be a result of auto and travelbug defending spain and bulgaria when to others ;the areas are not of investment opportunities at the present time.
Click to expand...

Just for clarification, I only defend Spain as an investment location as a comparison to Bulgaria, and specifically for anyone wanting a holiday home that they can actually get usage from and can hope to sell with some margin on exit. While my own experiences in Spain ove many years have been very positive, I appreciate that not everyone will do as well there, particularly if they invest carelessly. Careful perusal of my posts will show that I have consistently advised people investing in the residential sector overseas to go to good cities that have projected population growth. When investing in such locations, the following common-sense advice applies:

Buy the best that you can afford in the best location in the city. Stay out of areas that locals either won't buy in or aspire to leave at the first opportunity.

Be aware of what the local buyers are prepared to pay, and where they are prepared to pay it.

In general, be wary of paying a premium over local rates for any development that is "targeted at expats" or "exclusive". It is still unlikely to ever outperform the local norms. There are notable exceptions, but the exclusivity factor is often used as an excuse to charge huge margins for a little extra fit-out.

Don't buy a property that you would not be prepared to live in yourself. If it doesn't appeal to you, why would anyone else rent it?

Furnish tastefully and with mid-range quality wise, don't clutter or mix styles.

If you find yourself without a tenant for more than a month or two, do whatever is needed to get the property back on the market -- redecorate or repair, or drop the rent if necessary. Be prepared for some downtime; don't whine about it, be proactive and minimise it.

Keep a good channel of communication open with your management company/letting agent. Don't ignore emails and phone calls and then start bitching six months later because you have unsolved problems. Stay on top of things. Remember that the agent is being paid maybe as little as 10% of a small rent; don't expect miracles or that they will devote every hour of every day to your issues.

Most importantly, don't rely on a salesman for advice, and look every gift horse in the mouth. If something looks too good to be true, it most likely is. In 99% of cases, guaranteed rentals are a sales ploy that will cost you money on a number of fronts.

Finally, remember that everyone you deal with in the business has their own interests at heart, not yours. That is your job, stay on top of it!
 
Re: A thread to help new investors?

Every property dealer in Ireland seems to have all the answers as to what to do with his or her portfolio,Pod1 says would any other business make as much money,why not try it,it`s too easy to almost brag about making money in a market ie! property that was made easier to profit on as everyone was doing it.Not to long ago we worked for need not greed.
 
Re: A thread to help new investors?

The Key Post thread does deal with a lot of technical issues and I agree is excellent.

However,I think that when you are approching something new for the first time a lot of the technical issues are hard to understand and even if you understand them technically it is hard to judge how important they are..

Its hard to get a "feel" for it.

This is why I think sharing stories both bad and good with figures gives somebody new a better understanding altogether.

I certainly have found this to be the case and still learn much better from examples other people share with me. I am very much a new investor with a little experience in residental property,however,learning new concepts in say commercial property or indeed any other walk of life is hard for me and without a doubt I would learn more from an experienced investor I trust sharing an example with me.


I hope this clears up my reason for this thread.If any new investors out there who share this viewpoint then please say so..

I am happy to be proved wrong.

By the way Auto I think thats a great post. Always find your posts very informative and detailed.
 
Hi Pod,

Ive changed the title to include the words "Overseas Property". I dont think you intended the thread to include all investment classes.

aj
 
Re: A thread to help new investors?


What exactly do you think is hard to understand? Almo's key post seems quite clear and to honest if you applied a bit of common sense and caution most of his points should be obvious?

If someone can't grasp the quite clear statements made in his post then perhaps they shouldn't be buying property abroad.

There has been some excellant posts made over the last 6 months (Read Auto's posts for instance)and it's quite clear that contributors have put time and effort into it. New investors should be reading these if they want to "educate" themselves

I can't see how a meandering thread will help anybody, if that's what this thread becomes.
 
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