A rant about skills (the lack of them)

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Purple

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Even with the downturn it’s still very hard to get a competent construction sector tradesperson (Carpentry, plumbing, electrical, painting, plastering etc).

There are loads of them about but very few of them are any good. I’ve never hired a painter, plasterer or carpenter and been happy with their work quality. I’ve never been able to say that they did a better job than I could do myself. I’ve never been happy that they turned up when they said they would and did the job when they said they would to the appropriate standard. I know that it was a seller’s market over the last decade but the standard of workmanship from Irish tradespersons is generally appalling.

We face the same problem in work; we can’t get competent staff with the appropriate skills and training but that’s a problem all over Europe in my sector. They are well paid jobs too, anything from €20 to €40 an hour. The people we do get are from Eastern Europe and the UK. They have a much better appreciation of quality and doing exactly what they are meant to do and putting their hand up when they make a mistake.

Unfortunately most of the Irish people we hire still have the “ah, sure it’ll be alright” attitude so they don’t last long. I talk to other people in my field and they say the same thing; they can’t get the people.

I talk to friends in IT and IT related services and they say the same thing; they can’t find the skilled people they need.

There’s hundreds of thousands of people unemployed in this country. Where are the skills?
 
The good people are still snowed under with work!

Where u based ? Is your location a restricting factor?
 
Slightly OT but I have just spent my second evening at home waiting for a plumber to call for a job. Neither called to say they wouldn't make it and both confirmed they would be there when contacted earlier in the day...

End rant.
 
Purple said:
We face the same problem in work; we can’t get competent staff with the appropriate skills and training but that’s a problem all over Europe in my sector.
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I'm working on a 1 in 3 theory as regards competent people at work. Out of every 3 people we hire, 1 will exasperate you with incompetence, 1 will muddle by and 1 will more than carry the others with attitude and ability.

The funny thing is, they won't come along uniformly. You can easily end up with a team of 5 or 6 people and no stars, but then when you've just about thrown in the towel, you unearth a couple of good people in a row and your faith is restored.
 
gianni said:
Slightly OT but I have just spent my second evening at home waiting for a plumber to call for a job. Neither called to say they wouldn't make it and both confirmed they would be there when contacted earlier in the day...

End rant.
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That's exactly what I'm talking about.
 

We’re looking for people who are not particularly qualified (tough if they are it’s a bonus) but are highly skilled.
The problem is that it takes around 10 years to get to the level what someone would be considered “fully skilled”.
That’s if they had the aptitude and attitude to start with.
A generation of mechanical engineers (degree level and trades) became builders. That skills shortage will impact on this country for a generation.
 
We've had mixed luck in getting work done on our house. It was in pretty rough cosmetic shape - don't think anything was done to it since the early 70s (and not in a cool way - it was yuck).

The worst luck we had was the following....

My first cousin was out of work at the time and has a child also. My mother said he did some work for her and was very good. So I gave him a call and he called around to inspect the work. Basically we had a lot of stuff to be done so we agreed on a daily rate (I wasn't too worried about this as he is afterall my cousin). We agreed that he would start on Monday morning and arrange for the kids to be looked after etc for the first few days as there was a lot of wallpaper removing and painting to be done. Mrs Firefly rang me at half 10 on Monday asking was he coming! I rang him again and again and finally got through to him at lunchtime and he told me he was in the pub all day the day before and wouldn't make it in! I put it down to a 1 off. He is meant to be a carpenter and said fitting cornicing was no problem. I bought pretty good stuff and enough to do our downstairs hall area and 2 bedrooms upstairs. He made such a mess of it he was only able to do 1 bedroom. The last straw came when I asked him to sand the wooden floor in a pretty small room. I picked up the sander etc with all the bits. He rang me that morning and...wait for it....said that the work was too hard and he would need to up his rate! I then calmly told him that's fine...I'll pop up tonight and sort you out as I think that's all the work I have now. It was a pity because I had at least another 2 weeks work left.
 
The problem is that govt are cutting back on courses for those without work.

Where is the push for re-skilling?

This govt have shut training centres and cut back on back to education allowances.

To add insult to injury that have hit funding on any post grad course.
 
cork said:
The problem is that govt are cutting back on courses for those without work.
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The problem is that we haven’t been training people in this area for 10-15 years. The problem is that FAS and the Department of Education wrecked the apprentice training system nearly 20 years ago. Since then the numbers training have dropped off. The cause is a mixture of easy money in construction trades (which are less skilled so it’s easier and faster to become competent) and the fact that the current training system doesn’t produce the correct skills. The reason that Eastern Europeans are better skilled is because their training system is closer to the German model which is much better than ours.


cork said:
Where is the push for re-skilling?
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The perception out there is that if you take a guy and “train” him for 6 months he will be “re-skilled”. It’s utter nonsense; you can’t turn someone with skills that are no longer needed into someone with different but equal skills in a matter of months.

cork said:
This govt have shut training centres and cut back on back to education allowances.
To add insult to injury that have hit funding on any post grad course.
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That’s because the last government destroyed the economy and then shackled the current government into the Croke Park agreement.
 
Purple said:
That’s because the last government destroyed the economy and then shackled the current government into the Croke Park agreement.
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I thought the last government did ok. They were the ones that cut expenditure and increased taxes and levys on the same public sector.

The Croke Park deal was never set in stone. It has many "get out" clauses just to be triggered.


Schools/Colleges in this country are not being utilised.

Education opportunities are being cut back - at a time when our politicians are getting allowances for dry cleaning.
 
cork said:
I tought the last government did ok. They were the ones that cut expenditure and increased taxes and levys on the same public sector.
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The last government, which was in power for a decade, is the one that destroyed this country’s economy. The fact that they were forced to start fixing their own mess by the EU/IMF is not something that they deserve credit for.


cork said:
The Croke Park deal was never set in stone. It has many "get out" clauses just to be triggered.
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Yea, right.
 
cork said:
I thought the last government did ok. They were the ones that cut expenditure and increased taxes and levys on the same public sector.
Click to expand...

I know it's Friday afternoon and all that...but seriously
 
We don't often get in the builders unless there is serious construction needed. We do most of our own DIY. However last year we decided time for replacement windows.
This was the first time builders came on the day and time agreed, did the job within the agreed time, and never left a trace behind them. They came equipped with their lunches, would not even accept a cup of coffee. Dust covers went on all carpets and stairs. They cleaned the windows and took out their own hoover for a final clean up before leaving.

We commended them on their work and gave them a tip. Well worth it!!
 
I've had several painters in over the years.

No one has ever done a better job than my own brother who trained with a firm of painters while he was going to college. He is a perfectionist and has always had a great pride in his work. I think that is what it comes down to.

Ironically he is redundant from the professional job and painting my house again!
 
It is not just in the trades. Lack of skills and pride seems to be common now. I have been fortunate to secure a permanent job recently and I alternate between shock and dismay at the shoddyness of some of the work that I see. Most of the people where I work got their jobs in 2007/8, fresh out of college and the majority walk around believing they are doing superior work. Yet a quick glance at emails to external clients/customers show up spelling errors, lack of punctuation, poorly worded and often not addressing whatever the issue is. More often than not they are 2 or 3 days late.

On top of that, in the 3 months I have been there, out of a team of 18, 15 have had at least 1 day off sick Coming back late from break or lunch is the norm. We have a new manager who is starting to address these and numerous other issues and you can imagine the bitching going on about that!

And yet these cubs are complaining about pay and benefits, despite being paid way over the norm (I had to ring HR to confirm my salary offer was correct it was so much more than I expected and I am on entry level), we have a subsidised restaurant, free parking and most significantly a very good pension ( employer pays 7-10%, employee 3-6%)*

One of our H/O managers is quite open about saying a lot of the staff would not have a hope of getting employed by the company in todays market and there is a sea change from focussing on employing people with a piece of paper qualification to looking at proven ability.

* And yes it is in the private sector!
 
I totally agree with the above but the worst part is you become the office crank when you do not go along with the "any old thing is good enough" attitude.
 
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