A new-ish warning: The Balkans

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almo

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This was brought to my attention just an hour ago (again). It is regarding property on sale in Bosnia-Herzegovina. It has been promoted a fair bit and called Dubrovnik, but it is firmly within the bounds of the Bosnian Federation. The companies dealing in Montenegro don't called their border prop's Dubrovnik anymore (even though Dubrovnik Airport is the hub).

Basically the process of buying in Bosnia is complicated and one of the scams (as it really is) involves buying near Neum (on the sea) and the lands there are currently under central restriction and subject to planning change.
 
Re: A new-ish warning: Bosnia

Dubrovnik is not in Bosnia or in Montenegro , its in Croatia

Bosnia has about 2km of coastline , all in Neum. Neum is full of UN bods , a hangover from the war and was a military r and r town when I was there not a tourist destination.

I would also note that Neum, despite being in Bosnia, is not under the day to day control of the government in Sarajevo but of ethnic Croatian warlords.

Its about as daft as buying in a waterless desert in the Cape Verde islands
 
Re: A new-ish warning: Bosnia


That's the point Mr. Shakur, it's being marketed as "Dubrovnik Region" or "Area" but it's a dodgy deal. I've even seen Montenegro properties listed as "Dubrovnik Region", yeah, okay, so Newry is now in "Dundalk Region".

Most of Bosnia, like much of Montenegro, is not under government control, local tribes and hardmen rule the roost, Serbia too. Now I don't feel so bad about Crossmaglen!
 
Re: A new-ish warning: Bosnia

almo said:
Most of Bosnia, like much of Montenegro, is not under government control, local tribes and hardmen rule the roost,
Click to expand...

Maybe this should be in the Montenegro thread, but do you feel that MN is actually as bad as Bosnia in this respect? And is it likely to become more legitimate anytime in the near future? Around Kotor Bay is one of my favourite parts of the world and I'd like to buy a holiday home in the region in the next few years.
 
Re: A new-ish warning: Bosnia

Well, possibly, I think Montenegro is not so secure as certain folks would have you believe. A colleague of mine, whose father is from there and who has just returned from a holiday had stories and stories. Blood feuds, areas ruled by militia (not Russian style but strongmen with money to buy guns), and a very definite tension between Montenegrins, Serbs and other smaller minorities, including Albanians. Plus the economy is heavily dependent on subsidies from central government with little outside investment. It's a lovely place, but still a long long way from home.
 
Re: A new-ish warning: Bosnia

Thanks for the info, Almo. That's a pity as it's such a fantastic place. Incredible scenery, great fun, great people and very easy to get to if you live in this part of Europe. It does seem to be quite expensive though to buy any kind of property there at the minute and with a three month high season, I'm not sure why investors would bother. I'm more interested in it as a place to spend a month or two every year but can't seem to find anything under 100,000 euro.
 
Re: A new-ish warning: Bosnia/Montengro

Try further north, Croatia still has some good places, you don't have to look too hard, but Montenegro, I'd always be a little nervous until they get into the EU, which is looking at 2016.

You know, Albania is far more beautiful, with stunning beaches, I was offered freehold on 10,000m2 and a small cottage, the property ran right onto the water, for €20,000. I didn't have the readies, but if I did....well, maybe I'd have thought twice, but it really is a lovely coastline (but wild interior and cities).
 
Re: A new-ish warning: Bosnia/Montengro

Any Idea when Croatia is due to join?
 
Re: A new-ish warning: Bosnia/Montengro

I know that the last election had the winning party Republican/Fianna Fail/HDZ ltd (the spin doctors for a really excellent campaign came from teh Bush and Bertie camps!) getting Bertie and others to say 2007, but at least 2008. I really can't see it before 2010, which is excellent as it means we won't be going through the same turmoil (pre) as Bulgaria and (post) Czech Republic.

2010 I'd give at 2 to 1 on.
 
not to be the party pooper ( )here but what is the sanitation situation like in bosnia/montenegro etc? I can remember holidaying in Greece in the early '80's and the toilet/shower situation left a lot to be desired. I can recall an open toilet on one of the beaches in Rhodes ( like a cave) which was open to both sexes and to put it mildly it made the toilets in Dalymount look like they were 5* I assume as France/Italy/Spain etc share a tideless mediterrenean/Agean/Adriatic with these countries and northern African counries that there has been EU money spent on upgrading the waste disposal in these countries? or am I being over optimistic?
 
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I just found though that in my experience, Montenegro was so much more hospitable than Croatia and the area around Budva and Kotor Bay is amazing. It's a pity that Montenegro doesn't seem to be as advanced as Croatia in terms of its tourist economy, as in my eyes, it could be one of the best destinations in Europe if it got its act together.
 
Do you mean those hole in the ground toilets? I remember encountering these in Greece, Southern Italy and Turkey and didn't have any problem with them. Neither did my wife. The main problem was usually when some ignoramus who went before didn't bother to "flush" properly.
 
it was just a hole in the rock face. No electricity. Dark and smelly. on one of the beaches at Rhodes town itself. ( the rocky one on the 'left' side of town.if there was a flush it would have been hard to find in the dark. just wondering that with all the tourists, and ex-pats, and general increase in population, if the waste disposal has also been catered for. after all it's not that long ago that Dublin Corpo were dumping their s**t directly into Dublin bay but at least the Irish Sea is not tideless. I would be pretty confident that in the EU the standards would now be fairly uniform but Croatia/Montenegro not to mention north Africa arre not in the EU.
 

Cuchulainn, some parts of Croatia and Montenegro are a lot better off than a lot of parts of the EU (it wasn't long ago a large amount of slurry "appeared" in the Castletown river) but there are certain parts that are (within the last 6 weeks) coming under scrutiny for their disposal of waste. Trogir, Cavtat, Pula, Rogoznica, Zadar are all tourist and investment spots but have been exposed as pretty polluted places. Of course it will change, for years locals denied it, but since the EU has emerged on the scene there is a great deal of regulation tightening going on.
 
Hi Almo: thats good to hear. I sort of expect that the 'richer' eu countries would expect ( and contribute to) higher standards as any pollution in the med could have a serious impact on a good number of eu members. as for the castletown river, I can remember the slurry that dundalk urban council used to 'flush' out into the bay at regular intervals years ago. especially that open pipe in the town park. history now of course with the new tanks further down the point road. cheers
 
Anyone got any opinions on Sarajevo? (yes, the city that hosted the winter olympics back in the 80s). I was there in 2003 for a couple of months and thought it was a pretty cool city with lots of nice buildings - very multi-ethnic city and still quite bitter.

Would love to own a place in Sarajevo, but would be very skeptical of property laws, deeds, post-war hand-over of property etc.
 
Cello, you'd be far better off trying to buy in Banja Luka, Sarajevo is a minefield (not literally, but it is around the former Olympic Ski Slopes) and property issues are years from being solved. Bosnia, as a whole, is still pretty volatile and economically a basket case. You should, if you'd like something very chic, look east to Belgrade, it's a very beautiful city, great services. vibrant population and a lot going on. Or better again, Novi Sad, beautiful, soulful and well located.
 
I would counsel against purchasing property in any Serb controlled areas such as Banja Luka or Novi Sad. All are at a high risk of coming unter the control of ultra nationalists over the next few years .

Ultra nationalists by definition do not like foreigners and do not care about their interests . If the charming Seselj becomes prime minister of Serbia one would be very sceptical of the long term viability of the country.

The nationalists in Croatia and Montenegro and even Macedonia are less shortsighted and more amenable to international pressure.

Personally I would only consider Slovenia to be stable and predicatable as an investment location .
 

2pack, have to disagree with a couple of points (purely due to local knowledge). Banja Luka has been greatly stabilised and (as noted) the same as buying in Sarajevo, with far less legal issues over property than the capital. Novi Sad is in "Serb-contrlled" land, it's in, erm, Serbia! It's an city and area that has attracted a great deal of foreign investment in the last 5 years (textiles are produced in great quantity and even Jaffa and mallow cakes are made for distribution in EUrope) and any Prime Minister of a country is a potential danger (in Slovenia you have the extreme right in power - in different guise) who are under severe international presure and unless they return money to fellow former Yugoslavs by next May will be severely hit by World Bank sanctions. Top this with disagreements over land, property rights and return of same, it makes even Livno look good. The economy is slipping from where it was and this beautiful county is so bought up by Italian mafia and Austrian banks that a wobble elsewhere will flatten it.

But the same can be said about Ireland, if Bertie tells the Yanks to stop using Ireland as a refuelling base in their empire building, how long will IBM and all those other lovelies be doing business in the country?
 
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