7 ft wide room too narrow?

Re: Here ya go - no time like present!

The original poster is talking about a 7 foot wide room over a garage. Where are you getting 700 sq feet from?

Re: Here ya go - no time like present!

I'm getting it from the dimensions of my own house (if that's OK with you). My garage is two feet wider but the proposed development would be 35-40 feet in depth.

My point remains that it's not beyond the realms of fantasy to incur expenditure in the region of €135k that would be necessary to generate architects fees of €20k.

But, again, if you (or anyone) is aware of a builder that would do a 700 sq ft job for €60k (or indeed any five-figure sum), I would be genuinely delighted to hear from you.

Re: Here ya go - no time like present!

We have to demolish and rebuild garage and room behind it cos foundations are not sufficent for 2 story building. Size of building is about 7.5ft X 30ft. Its costing around 130K. I wish we'd seen quotes for anything even under 100K! We got 3 quotes and one was even higher.Is this not the kind of money everyone is spending on extensions. Don't want to be missing some big bargain here!

I suppose we could demolish wall between box bedroom and new room but as mentioned, then we'd just make one room bigger with no net gain in number of rooms.

Architects all charge at least 10% of build to my knowledge and on a relatively small job like this we were told there'd be a minimum charge.

Garage

Hi Toby,

Didn't realise you were going to rebuild the garage as well. I suppose from your fuller description of the project 130k is possible, although still sounds expensive to me. You're only talking about 450 sq ft, which at 200 per sq ft should come in around 90k.

Have you considered that an architect might save you money? S/he will supervise the job and make sure the builder doesn't take you for a ride.

Have you had a proper survey of the existing foundations? It is quite common to be able to build over an existing garage as usually the garage foundations are at the same depth as the rest of the house as it's easier for the builder to build them this way originally. Again, part of the architect's service possibly.

Perhaps you are very confident in your design ability, but with the kind of money you are spending here a little professional help might be a good thing (and I'm not talking about the builder). You are already second-guessing your proposed layout -- perhaps with good reason.

It can be helpful to look at the project as an overall space rather than a number of individual rooms. In my opinion, one well designed room is better than two unbearable ones. This is something your architect can also help you with. Perhaps at least an initial consultation will allay some of your concerns.

Good luck with it.

Re: Garage

Toby

I'm at least glad that I'm not the only one being apparently taken for a ride.

I'm in the same situation as you insofar as the garage will need to be demolished before I can think of a two-story extension.

Like you, I baulked at the notion of paying huge sums to an architect for little apparent input but as Extopia has indcated, an effective architect could save you money in the long run as well as contributing towards the more effective use of space. As I said earlier, a lot depends on what YOU want from an extension - not what convention decrees you should have.

If the extension involves a change to the front facade of the house, you'll need planning permission which will require professionally drawn plans. Some (admitedly few) architects will offer advice and create drawings on a fixed-fee basis that's not related to the approximate cost of the build. Fees of this nature would be in the region of €1500 depending on the extent of the area for which plans would be required. Additional fees would be chargable for subsequent site visits, sign-offs, etc which although adding to the cost, would still be considerably less than if you went for the percentage-based charge from the outset.

One such architect who operates on a fee basis is Eamonn Weber in Rathgar (tel 4967907). He's a solid bloke who won't try to bull you but it would help if, in advance, you'd put a lot of thought into what exactly you want.

Re: Garage

Thanks extopia and biggles and everyone else, you've given me some stuff to think about. I think the extra cost may be largely due to the demolition of the existing structure. We have planning permission already biggles and have been assured that existing foundations are not workable but I will seek yet another opinion.

Re: Garage

Who made the decision on the foundations and did he or she do a visual inspection of the actual foundations?

Like I say, an engineer's survey is the only way to be sure -- money very well spent in this case if it means you don't have to rebuild the garage. A friend of mine did a similar project recently in a 30s-era house and was able to use existing foundations, which as I said earlier is often the case. Many builders however prefer to rebuild from scratch as believe it or not it's often easier or faster for them than building around (or on top of) an existing structure.

Re: Garage

Extopia, we dug a hole and the foundations were not deep and did not extend far outside the walls of the garage. We were persuaded knocking it was the way to go by a builder who as you say may have ulterior motives. Having said that though, our engineer did say that it wouldn't be that much cheaper to build on top of the existing garage cos the floor and walls would have to be insulated and windows and doors moved to new positions in new building and foundations might need to be underpinned so there would still be a lot of work involved. Do you agree or is it always cheaper to avoid rebuilding?

building costs

Biggles - Do go ahead and get an architect's or building surveyor's advice. From my very hard experiences of these matters it is far better to pay a specialist in advance than end up with an expensive extension which is less useful and attractive than it could be.

Regarding the price you were given it sounds from other posts to be relatively high.

However a 2-story extension requires substantial foundations and the quote may have something to do with the quality of the soil on which your property stands. In my own case I had a 'lean-to' bathroom at the back of a Victorian terrace house demolished and replaced by a 6' x 7' (tiny tiny tiny!!!!) single-storey bathroom. HOWEVER building regulations locally require that all new building have the capacity to weight-bear a two-story structure.

This, combined with the nature of the soil on which my property stood, added a whopping 6K to the estimate (which had been shocking to start with).

The other thing that occurs to me if if you are demolishing a single-story (presumably flat-roofed?) garage and building a two-story structure the roof of the two-story new-build will be brought into/incorporated with the house-roof.............a tricky business and one which would (if it is to look aesthetically pleasing!) perhaps account for a good portion of your high quote.

Last but not least.........from my experience I recommend you specify as closely as possible every (and I mean every.........down to the quality of nails used) detail to the builder to avoid disappointment and keeping the build close to the original estimate/quote. Having the architect/surveyor involved from the start will help enormously with this.

Hope it goes well.

foundations

No, I wouldn't try to second guess your engineer. Just wanted to make sure you HAD an engineer! Now all you need is that architect!

You mentioned earlier that you were concerned about decreasing the value of your house by building up to the boundary line... A well designed building will always have a price premium over a poorly designed one. And it doesn't necessarily cost any more to build a good building.

Best of luck.

Re: foundations

The price mentioned above staggered me. My building clients for new work ie new house quote around €90 per square foot. As my brother will be building later this year I was geting an idea for him. Where there is knocking involved I assume it would be more ok, but not double.
Think of geting a builder from outside the pale.

Take the trip to Tipp on 22/4/05

Re: Garage

Toby,
I have sent you a pm with regard to this.
Take the Trip to on 22/4/05.

planning regs - 7 ft 2 in minimum internal width

Planning garage conversion which will result in 7 ft wide rooms. Wondering is this too narrow to be usable.

Click to expand...

Anyway, we have planning permission for our approx 7.5 ft wide extension now

Click to expand...

There's an article in (the Irish property section of) last Sunday's Sunday Times that mentions a minimum internal width of 7 ft 2 in acccording to planning regulations. I don't think I can reprint the whole thing here because of copyright but it's from a week by week series on a woman who's extending her home in Dublin. Here's the link if you have a subscription:
Money Pile - Celie O'Connell: Extended beyond my means.
Presumably it's also in the property section of the printed paper.

Anyway, you might want to check out the http://www.environ.ie/DOEI/DOEIPol.nsf/wvNavView/wwdConstruction?OpenDocument&Lang=en (building standards and technical guidance documents) in relation to this.

Re: foundations

Jem

Could you send some of your clients up to Dublin.

For €90 a sq ft, I'd nearly put them up for the duration (if I didn't have to move out myself).