50 income poor asset ok. Expenses Looming


Does that then make the total cost 3000 + 200 X 40 weeks = 8000, total 11K?
 
Does that then make the total cost 3000 + 200 X 40 weeks = 8000, total 11K?

But this isn't the incremental cost of sending these kids to college. I.e. they're already (I assume) incurring costs of feeding, clothing, entertaining them. And if after the leaving cert they are sitting at home unemployed, they still need to be fed, clothed etc...

Surely it's only the incremental cost, ie college versus sitting at home (unless they're very lucky and get paid work), that's relevant...
 
Surely it's only the incremental cost, ie college versus sitting at home (unless they're very lucky and get paid work), that's relevant...

That's a very good point. So clothing would be no change. But rent, fees, esb, gas, travel would be extra. But so too would food, its a lot move expensive for one to feed onself, than it is for a family to add an extra dinner to the cooking pot.
 

I took the view that the state pension is an increasing one rather than a level payment. I know that it has not increased in recent years.

Nevertheless, if we suffered a bout of inflation, someone on a level payment annuity would be in trouble, whereas I would expect the state pension to get some increase.

Pensioners after all are voters. Also I believe that the pension has increased considerably over the last 10 years.
 

There is a lot of insight and sound advice in this. Thank you.
 
And if after the leaving cert they are sitting at home unemployed, they still need to be fed, clothed etc...

I see this happening in a lot of families, after school and even after college. I think it must be devastating.

Surely it's only the incremental cost, ie college versus sitting at home (unless they're very lucky and get paid work), that's relevant...

Thats true, but as Bronte points out "its a lot move expensive for one to feed onself, than it is for a family to add an extra dinner to the cooking pot."

I still think €10k is a reasonable figure. they can entertain themselves during the summer.
 
So an annuity is returning 5%. But you risk losing the capital. To get around 12K per annum you'd need to put in capital of nearly 250K. By two people that's 500K, giving one 25K return.

Thanks Bornte...so are you agreeing with my analysis (ie our figures are pretty much the same)?

I'm a little confused by the following "you risk losing the capital"...is the capital no longer an issue once annuity is purchased?
 
At one stage everyone thought that bank shares were blue chip shares and look at them now, so thread carefully here.

Well the thing is that Blue Chips do fail from time to time and you do need to understand what you are doing when you say pick five as someone else suggested... That is why a large caps ETF is probably a better option for most people.

The other think is that the UK/Ireland is the only place I've heard of banks being considered as solid blue chip stocks... In fact there is a general aversion in middle Europe to having say more than 12% - 15% of one's portfolio invested in the financial sector. And with good reason, they are very complex business models, even for the pros to get their heads around.
 
Seven years ago I posted the question at the start of this thread, I am back with an update and again looking for perspective and I have a specific question.

Reading over the thread I am struck by the excellent advice I received and the thought people put into their replies, it settled me at a time when I was feeling exposed, and I was and am grateful for that.

I repost the orignial question below with details updated in bold. All the properties referred to are the same properties as in the original post with one exception noted.
 
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Age: 48 55
Spouse’s/Partner's age: 51 58

Annual gross income from employment or profession: €45,000 €40,000
Annual gross income of spouse:None No Change

Monthly take-home pay €3,750 €2,900

Type of employment: Self-employed Public Sector PT Temp €35k Self Emp €5k

In general are you:
(a) spending more than you earn, or
(b) saving?

Spending a little more than we earn. No Change

Rough estimate of value of home €260,000 €400,000
Amount outstanding on your mortgage: €170,000 €103,000
What interest rate are you paying?
ECB plus 1.15% (€10,344 pa) No Change

Other borrowings – car loans/personal loans etc.
€9,000 UB unsecured 3.5% €25,000 at 6.5%

Do you pay off your full credit card balance each month? Yes No Change
If not, what is the balance on your credit card? Nil No Change

Savings and investments:
Deposit ac €190,000 €26,000
Short term deposit €20,000 €5k

Do you have a pension scheme?
PRSA €114,000 no contributions currently €150,000

Do you own any investment or other property?

BLT 1
Value €125,000 €250,000
Mortgage None
Rent €9,000 pa €20,000
Unrealised Capital Gain €120k


BLT 2
Value €160,000 €250,000
Mortgage €200k ECB + 0.75% IO for 18 more years (€2,000 pa) 11 years remaining then capital payable
Rent €8,400 €10,800
Unrealised Capital Gain €100k


BLT 3
Value €95,000 €170,000
Mortgage €208k ECB + 0.75% IO for 18 more years (€2,079 pa) 11 years remaining then capital payable
Rent €8,400 €10,800
Unrealised Capital Loss €70k


BLT 4
Value €170,000 €300,000
Mortgage €175,000 ECB + 1.15% Cap & Int (€13,944 pa) Bal €101,000 8 years remaining
Rent €15,000 pa €33,600
Unrealised Capital Gain €120k

BLT 5 Purchased shortly after the above thread was active.
Value €170,000
Cost €90,000
Mortgage None
Rent €14,600 pa
Unrealised Capital Gain €80k


Ages of children: 16,14,12,9 now 23, 21,18, 16

Life insurance:Sufficient to clear mortgages €300,000 both lives insured

Update re circumstances.
Shock horror I got older, and despite what I said in the original post this came as a shock.

I wound down my self-employed income and took up public sector work. This is going well and although currently I have a temporary part time contract I hope to have a permanent contract in the next year or so. The earnings will start off around €35k and increase slowly from there.

I did not sell BLT 1 in fact I used the cash I had to buy BLT 5, I also changed two cars. So of the €210 I had in cash I invested €90k spent €30k on cars and spent €60k on general living. One car should be fine for another 5 years, the other may need to be replaced in the next year or so.

The €25k loan was to refurbish BTL 4. I could have used savings, but then I would have no buffer.


What specific question do you have or what issues are of concern to you?

Mostly I am looking for perspective on my situation, No change

I would like to unlock some of my assets maybe go on safari, buy a campervan, even the holiday home in Croatia mentioned 7 years ago (although Leper has convinced me not that) while we are still young enough to enjoy it.


Any suggestions welcome.
 
I must be showing my relative young age but a couple with 4 children, 1 modest income, a family home and 5 BTL properties; that's wild!!
 
Your net worth exc. pensions went from C. 300k 7 years ago to c. 930k now... That's down to very major property price increases in that time period... So seriously well done. We don't talk about future property prices here, but certainly risks you took in the not so distant past have rewarded you very generously.
So my advice is to buy that camper van or whatever because you can absolutely afford to do so and what is life about at the end of the day... Liquidise one of your buy to let's to do this if necessary, the least profitable one ideally.
 
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I would liquidate BLT 2 and 3 and offset the loss against the gain, are you sure CG on BLT is €100k given value is €250k but mortgage was €200k?
 
Your net worth exc. pensions went from C. 300k 7 years ago to c. 930k now... That's down to very major property price increases in that time period... So seriously well done

I wouldn’t go as far to say “well done”. Cremeegg was reckless and doubled-down. The bet paid off, to a degree. But now’s the time to de-risk. Is there a plan to deal with the ‘interest only’ periods ending? What happens if prices fall? Why the need for new cars? Why the expensive borrowings at 6.5%?

Some of those properties should be sold to de-risk would be my tuppence.

Cremeegg, do you have full State Pension entitlement?

The yield on BTL 2 is pretty poor at just over 4%.

The yields on the rest of them look pretty good.
 
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Completely disagree... Speculate to accumulate comes to mind. But without getting into cliches I think it's fair to say that 'bet' paid off far more than 'to a degree'. I get there was a certain degree of luck but at the end of the day they are far, far wealthier than what they would be if they hadn't speculated in property... So that deserves credit no matter how we look at it. It's a timing thing and it paid off for OP. If he had invested in the stock market and got these returns would he have been 'reckless'? Markets fluctuate just like property but certain people do well out of it. That often requires some skill as well as luck hence why I give the credit to OP. It can be argued that OP was too heavily invested in property... But hey, it paid off, hugely so!
And final point on this, which I found very interesting actually, was that even when these properties were in negative equity there were some very knowledgeable posters telling OP to keep the properties as they were profitable. They were spot on with this advice. And obviously since then they have become extremely profitable from a capital appreciation perspective.
 
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Goingforgold,

Cremeegg is invested in a single asset class in a single geography with borrowings layered-on. There’s some negative equity thrown-in, plus some repayments due to revert to interest plus capital.

The bet paid off but now’s the time to de-risk.

I view cremeegg’s position as precarious.
 
Kudos, sir, you've done well! Fortune favours the brave and your bravery was well rewarded. That's some tasty rent roll you've got there - 90k odd on property valued at 750k. That's a cash cow investment and, as I see it, you've no need to liquidate to cash - you won't get better.

The loan at 6.5% raises an eyebrow, I must say. I fully understand the requirement for a buffer but it's costing you! Your call...

You should now be looking at tax efficiency, pension planning and even passing some wealth on to the next generation. You are exposed to a considerable whack of tax at the 40% (plus extras) scalping rate. That's a horrible waste and you should try to minimise this as far as (reasonably) possible. Maximize your personal pension contributions for a start, that's a no-brainer. Perhaps incorporate your self employed business and make employer contributions too. Not sure if you can buy extra years in the public service single scheme but check it out. Then have a look at EIIS investment. You could put in, say, 10 to 20k pa, get full tax relief, and after five years, it becomes self-financing gross, and cash positive net.

Then there's the kids. Try to encourage and incentivise them to invest wisely!
 
We can argue the point all night Gordon but fact of matter is that OP through his investment choices has to date done incredibly well. Look at his income and look at his wealth. That's down to his investment choices and would not have been possible had he squirreled away a few quid in a deposit account. Would he have done better had he diversified into stocks, gold etc. I doubt it tbh... So all I'm saying is that his investment paid off handsomely and credit where it's due. People generate wealth in different ways, some are property tycoons, other stock market investors etc. Others just work hard at their careers and generate huge incomes. But point is that if they make it then credit where it's due. Cremeegg made it through property and to date it has paid off... What he does in the future is a very different thing... But as a side note, in general I'd agree with you that it's better to diversify. Absolutely agree with that. But for Cremeegg, great that he didn't it seems.
 
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