50 - 70 grand to invest in overseas property. Need *safe* suggestions

Bill Shatner

Registered User
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18
Hi,

As the thread title suggests Im thinking about investing in some overseas property as the money is just sitting in a low yielding account at the moment and its time to do something with it.

The property would have to be somewhere warm and touristy as I plan on using it as a holiday home a couple of times a year, but it should also be in a location where rental income is somewhat decent. I was looking at Turkey, specifically Bodrum as Ive been there before and liked it. Ive also heard good things about Bulgaria from a holidaymakers point of view but Ive just read a thread on this site which was very off-putting about investing there.

That leaves France which I know little about and would be hard to get anything decent within my price range.

Any suggestions welcome
 
Switching from deposits to overseas property and expecting a safe ride is a bit of a dramatic turnabout! Are you sure that you've considered all other investment options and concluded, based on an objective analysis, that direct investment in overseas property is actually the most appropriate option for you?
 
To Bill:

Remember there are 2 sides to every story therefore there are good and bad Bulgarian reports.

I for one have bought in Bulgaria (for a minimum 5 year hold) but would not touch Turkey which is now way overpriced.

If interested there is a program on TV3 this Thursday evening looking at the Bulgarian coastline.

Hav'nt seen any previous programs but some posters say the programs are merely property adverts.
 
PS: the above link will have to be pasted into your URL bar as the link wont fully copy properly for some reason.
 
For that kind of money you have two options, assuming that property is the way you want to go.

1. Use the money as a deposit and borrow additional funds to get you into something useful. The problem with trying to buy for that kind of money is that you are at the mercy of the rubbish market, and could well end up with an immediate loss on your current position.
2. Be extremely selective, stay away from holiday resorts and buy either building land or small residential in a city with some kind of rent return and a possibility of good capital growth.
 
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Don't be tempted by the 1 Bed apartment in Sunny Beach for 50,000 euro. If you want a 1 bed apartment in Sunny Beach go there and buy one for 30,000!

As the last poster said a city location with rental could be considered. If I was investing in a city location in Bulgaria I would buy in Varna. Over the last quarter average apartment prices in Varna exceeded Sofia for the first time ever. Varna is a much nicer city with a lot more potential and the added bonus of being on the coast and having a lovely beach. I'm not saying buy in Bulgaria, that's up to you. I only mentioned bulgaria because you mentioned it and I'm sure sales guys are trying to sell you sunny beach (which is a complete mess of a resort).
 
With that level of funds I would certainly stay out of Bulgaria altogether (at the risk of sounding boring about it, you have the potential to halve your investment overnight in that market). If you have no experience, Sofia is probably not for you, although there are opportunties there for buyers with steady nerves.

Better go to a quality city like Budapest or Krakow, possibly even Riga (but avoiding the communist blocks in the latter location). In Budapest you will do ok with that level of money, but be really selective about where you locate yourself.

You mentioned holiday use, Spain is still good and there is some choice at that level but stay well south of Alicante if you ever want to resell. Avoid other disaster areas like La Manga also, you will have to wait too long to get a return. Forget rental returns in most areas in Spain in the holiday market, i.e. short lets. Still some nice returns in Spain on long lets, even on the Costas, but again be choosy and take your time about deciding.

There is a rule of thumb in the property business that says that a property that is being sold at less than the cost of building it in a reasonable location is always worth a second look. Spain can give you occasional gems in your price range where you could not possibly buy the land and build the property for the total price quoted. if you find such a place in a good area, then it is only a matter of time before it will come good for you.
 
Property is not a safe bet.Its a major gamble like every other investment. A safe bet is a deposit account but inflation will most likely eat into it.
 
Don't be tempted by the 1 Bed apartment in Sunny Beach for 50,000 euro. If you want a 1 bed apartment in Sunny Beach go there and buy one for 30,000!

Could you please elaborate Doberden? As in buy one direct from the builders?
 
Yes, if you go to Sunny Beach when it's closed (i.e. now) you will meet no tourists and plenty of property developers. As there is far too much property for sale in Sunny beach it's easy to get major discounts. I can't stand the place so I wouldn't buy there myself at any cost.
 
If going to Sunny Beach, why not wait for the inevitable crash and buy even cheaper, that is if you really really want to own a home there.

By my reckoning, the big glut of completions is due in about 1 to 2 years, add another 2 years for the "rental guarantees" to run out, and another six months for people to realise that the whole thing was a scam. So in about 4 years time you should be able to take your pick from huindreds of panic sales as the market caves in.

However if you want to invest your money and not simply lose it, go anywhere else with it. Leaving it in the bank with someone like Anglo Irish at 4% will at least keep it together for you.
 
A little ( or a lot ) off the point but have you considered a parking space(s) in Dublin city center or somewhere with similiar demand?
 
Southern Germany might be nice.
Great weather in the summer and skiing in the winter.
"Safe" as in it is a mature market and "Safe" as in it is a civilised society.
Relatively convenient to get to too.
 
Daddy: you state that Turkey is overpriced. Ireland is overpriced. Portugal is overpriced. France is overpriced. Spain is overpriced and in my opinion at any price Bulgaria is overpriced. and no I havn't purchased in Turkey yet. the flights are putting me off. not the properties or the people or the religion or the taxes etc. just the inconvenience. I was in instanbul last weekend just on a city weekend break. the number of people on both journeys who were going out to purchase property, purchase a 2nd property, kitting out a property and just going for a week to their property was unreal. and all of those people had 2nd flights to catch, mostly to izmir but one to antalya. the person beside me on the return flight was up at 4am to catch the izmir to istanbul flight. 2 hours by road from their property in althinum to izmir and then a 50 minute flight to instanbul and then a 4.15 hour flight to dear ( very) old dublin. no thanks. Dalaman is their airport during the summer but no flights during the winter. ditto antalya. thats the only thing putting me off. buts it probably a good enough reason.
 
Silly to say 'that at any price Bulgaria is overpriced'.

I have bought there and paid 85k all in.

If a pasting is to come like some think I lose - fair enough.

What will I lose - at worst 40k. Can live with that ?

Sometimes you got to take some chances in life.

If a pasting comes in Ireland and I invested here I'd lose a hell of a lot more. Buying a property for 500k and a 10% loss - then I'm down 50k.
Can anyone see upside from a 500k outlay in Ireland ?

No one can read the future on property prices anywhere.

If buying overseas all you can do is buy the best quality in the best location in the area of your choice and take your chances after that.
 
 
It's a pity that you are somewhat focussed on also finding a holiday home, difficult in my opinion to mix holiday with investment and get it right!! I would be suggesting a city centre apt - Budapest, Warsaw, Berlin et al but not the best for sunny breaks I am inclined to agree with a previous poster - leverage in a more advanced market using local financing. Put down a deposit and go buy to let. Notwithstanding earlier posts maybe consider S&L in France, offering some use. Not all these devs are good but some are clearly better than others, and from a deposit of approx 30K many will pay for themselves from the rental yield....usually usage will drop the yield but back to that old argument of holiday home v investment. Straight buy to let in France another option, but must go for an area with good rentability in this case....stay away from Spain - renting a total nightmare. As for Bulgaria.......agree with above. Don't forget that cheap may not mean good value (in fact usually means just the opposite).....
 
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I do not expect to take a pasting and you are mincing my words.
I am merely pointing out the possible potential downfall in investing in a property in Bulgaria versus Ireland. No one (except you apparently) can predict future property prices in Bulgaria with certainty. I am happy with my purchase and will sit on it for 5 years minimum. Only time will tell on prices but my understanding from Bill Shatner's post is that 100k is in or around as much as he wishes to pay. Not many options available on that type of budget.
 
Bill,

Have you cosidered investing your money in a diversified property fund or a property index tracker?