Child Abuse Commission Report - Shame

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Teatime

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After listening to harrowing stories on the radio over the past 2 days, I am not proud to be Irish. We have a lot to answer for.
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The Conclusions

- Physical and emotional abuse and neglect were features of the institutions.
- The congregations' failure to manage schools led to institutional abuse.
- The "deferential" and "submissive" attitude of the Department of Education towards the congregations compromised its ability to carry out its statutory duty to monitor schools.
- Financial "commitments" made by the religious congregations allowed the industrial school system to thrive.
- More kindness and humanity would have gone far to make up for the poor standards of care.
Physical Abuse
- Regulations regarding use of corporal punishment were disregarded.
- Industrial schools depended on rigid control by means of severe corporal punishment to survive.
- Children lived with the daily terror of not knowing where the next beating was coming from.
- Children who ran away were subjected to extremely severe punishment.
- Complaints by parents and others made to the Department of Education were not properly investigated.
- Corporal punishment in girls' schools was "pervasive, severe, arbitrary and unpredictable".
Sexual Abuse
- Sexual abuse was endemic in boys' institutions.
- Long-term offenders repeatedly abused children wherever they worked.
- When confronted by evidence of sexual abuse, religious authorities responded by transferring the offender to another location where, in many cases, he was free to abuse again.
- Congregational authorities did not listen to or believe people who complained of sexual abuse in the past, despite extensive evidence to the contrary.
- Older boys sexually abused younger boys and the system did not offer the abused boys protection.
- A culture of silence prevented sexual abuse by members of religious orders being brought to the department's attention.
- The Department of Education dealt inadequately with sexual abuse complaints.
Neglect
- Poor standards of physical care were reported by most male and female complainants.
- Children were frequently hungry and food was inadequate, inedible and badly prepared in many schools.
- Children went cold because of inadequate clothing.
- Accommodation was cold, spartan and bleak. Sanitary provision was primitive.
- The standard of education in industrial schools was consistently poorer than in outside schools.
- Industrial training served the institutions' needs rather than the children's.
Emotional Abuse
- Disadvantaged, neglected and abandoned children were subjected to disturbing level of abuse.
- The system made it difficult for individual brothers, priests and nuns who tried to respond to emotional needs of children in their care.
- Witnessing the abuse of other boys and girls had a harrowing effect on children in the schools.
- Separating siblings and other restrictions on family contact were profoundly damaging for family relationships.
 
How can an organization knowingly have SO MANY active psychopaths and evil child rapists as part of thier organization in so many places for so long, and do nothing about it!!!
These people must have idenified the catholic church as a safe place to be allowed to do what they did with easy access to so many victims.

Think of it like this. 20 of us coach rugby for 200 kids and you know there are 2 active rapits raping the kids you coach and until theres a complaint thats the way it is, you just coach away. The one who's caught gets moved to coach the team down the road.

Every priest (and i know some "decent" ones) in this country knows they are part of a church which had rampant child abuse for years and years and tried to cover it up and let it happen. How could they be part of that!!! Where was the outrage from "good" priests all these years. Where was thier demand to rid the church (acting on behalf of god) of pure rampant widespread EVIL. They chastise an umarried mother for her sin but ignore a child rapist.
How were those kids beaten so badly, abused so badly for such small things by people preaching on the alter about the love of god.

The nazi hunters are running out of nazis, send them a new list!!!!
 
I've read the summary and am absolutely horrified by it - it is sickening to think of all those in authority who did what they did. I'm particularly struck by the part of the report which mentions those in their sixties and seventies who remember a kind act or word from when they were a child as it was such a rare occurence. I'm keeping my head down at work this morning because I keep getting tears in my eyes anytime I think about it.
 
Bishop Vincent Nichols will be installed as the Archbishop of Westminster later today, thereby becoming leader of the Catholic Church in England and Wales.


When asked about the contents of the report from the Child Abuse Commission, he described it as distressing and disturbing but said it had taken courage for members of the clergy to face up to the facts in their past.
He said that the report should not overshadow all of the good that these clergy members had also done.
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I couldn't believe he said this. These clergy did not come forward volunarially - they had to be hounded out. The only brave people here are the men & women who have fought for years to have their voices heard. To think he will be the head of the Catholic church within these isles....he should be sacked!
 
sam h said:
I couldn't believe he said this. These clergy did not come forward volunarially - they had to be hounded out. The only brave people here are the men & women who have fought for years to have their voices heard. To think he will be the head of the Catholic church within these isles....he should be sacked!
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We all know how this is going to go, the pope will issue some weak apology as usual and state his 'horror' at what has happened and that will be that - a lot of references will be made to the 'good work' done by many and the evil done by few - but quite frankly as is obvious from the document the opposite is true. Good work done by few, evil done by many. If he was truly horrified and sickened by the abuse then as head of the church he would demand an investigation, find out who these people are and prosecute them, excommunicate them, name and shame them - open up the vast vatican banks and wealth to at least compensate them. But as usual nothing like that will happen, they will retire and die and never have to even apologise for the evil things they have done.

The pope will continue on his way lecturing people on being good, telling the people of Africa that they have to abstain from sex to stop spread of aids because condoms are not allowed! all the while he was part of the coverup of the greatest scandal in our nation and nations all around the world - hundreds of thousands of people devastated, generations of families destroyed by the very people charged with ensuring their safety!.

I cannot tell you how happy I am that I made the decision not to get married in a church this year - I don't think I could stomach it!!

My heart goes out to those who have suffered, it's far to difficult for the majority of us to understand and comprehend and I sincerely hope they get the help, compensation and the forum to vent as much as they can!.
 
Dont forget that the State only got a small fraction of the compensation costs from the guilty parties. No indemnity should have been given or the costs passed through euro by euro.

Missed a golden opportunity to bring a load of school and hospitals, which the State is currently paying the running and staff costs anyway and probably built through capital grants, into State ownership thus eliminating the religious stranglehold on the education and health sectors.
 
Has there been much comment about the role of the Courts/Gardai or whoever else who took the initial steps which led to these unfortunates been committed to the various institutions.
 
sam h said:
I couldn't believe he said this. These clergy did not come forward volunarially - they had to be hounded out. The only brave people here are the men & women who have fought for years to have their voices heard. To think he will be the head of the Catholic church within these isles....he should be sacked!
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If he represents 'holy god' on earth he should be breathing fire that these people ever existed under the protected umbrella of the catholic church.
 
dockingtrade said:
How can an organization knowingly have SO MANY active psychopaths and evil child rapists as part of thier organization in so many places for so long, and do nothing about it!!!
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partly because many senior people in the church did not see anything wrong with what these priests and brothers were doing. It was considered by many to be a "priestly foible". They did not understand the damage that it caused to children.

One of the reasons why so many children ended up in these awful institutions was because their parents could not look after them, because they had 10 or more children. Why? Because the church told them it was their duty to do so. The church has so much to answer for.
 
As a practising RC for the first sixteen years of my life, I listened to clerics say "that many are called but few are chosen" in relation to 'vocations'. God had the ultimate say as to who was admitted to 'holy orders'. If those two statements are true then God has been showing a distinct lack of nous in the weeding out of paedophiles, sadists, megalomaniacs and thieves.:(
 
Slash said:
One of the reasons why so many children ended up in these awful institutions was because their parents could not look after them, because they had 10 or more children. Why? Because the church told them it was their duty to do so. The church has so much to answer for.
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Anyone remember a series called "Brides of Christ" shown years ago on RTE - featured a convent school in (I think) Australia and the importance of the religious authorities. I remember a scene where a woman who already had six or so children was given the Pill by her Doctor as she was exhausted and thought she couldn't cope with more but then throwing the Pill away because of her "Catholic guilt" after a conversation with the priest. My recollection of the programme is hazy because it was shown years ago and I was young watching it but this scene stuck in my head as it seemed so ridiculous. I am one of a very large family myself - my parents were "good practising Catholics". But when I think of the guilt instilled in some people by priests it makes my blood boil. And it makes me sad for those people who have truly believed in the goodness of the Church to have to question their beliefs.
 
Chocks away said:
As a practising RC for the first sixteen years of my life, I listened to clerics say "that many are called but few are chosen" in relation to 'vocations'. God had the ultimate say as to who was admitted to 'holy orders'. If those two statements are true then God has been showing a distinct lack of nous in the weeding out of paedophiles, sadists, megalomaniacs and thieves.:(
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I heard one interview where it was maintained that the bright intelligent sons were sent for further education and good jobs but the introverted, dumb & 'odd' sons were told to join the priesthood because they had no other options. That did not help.

I have tried to bring this subject up a few times in the office today and most people dont want to know. They just say "Terrible yeah but I dont want to think about it".
 
I can't see how 'society' should be made to feel shame. I had no part in this and do not feel the collective shame we are being told to feel. That seems to me to be a very RC thing (I'm an RC BTW) - feel the shame. Anyone who spoke out was ostracised and that would have been led by the priest and the more powerful lay people.

What I do feel is anger at the extent of control the church had in the running of this state, a church that has shown itself to be a poison in the blood of this country. They have perpertarted such barbarity and cruelty and have utterly betrayed everything that is supposed to be Christian in thier actions. I feel betrayed by the Church that I am supposed to be a member of.

One wonders, as we look around the world at other poor catholic countries - is this still going on. Or is it an Irish thing?
 
Outside of all the terrible stories of the abuse, pain and brutality inflicted on children that came to light yesterday one story stuck in my head.
It was the Christian Brother (not named) who apoligised to the Christian Brother Order for bringing the organisation into disrepute.
He felt guilty for hurting the church but did not feel a pang of guilt for the pain inflicted on the children.
I think this may be the crux of the problem when people ask "Why did the 'good' priests not do something"? I believe its because they believed that they had a responsibility to the church or the order which superceded their responsibility to the children. The church (to them) symbolised the greater good and that was more important than a miserable orphan who may have been damaged by a man of the cloth.
The church still don't realise the damage it visited on children because if it did we would see them divesting themselves of there property/assets etc to make amends. And you and I know that that sure as hell isn't going to happen.
 
The local church in my village could not see itself to sign over a small piece of land for sheltered houses for the elderly recently.

That said, they are good brothers, priests + nuns.

But that report was sickening. Such a cover up by civil servants, church etc. I don't have the words to express my feelings on it.
 
I have been through this first hand as my Dad was an orphan and grew up in Artane Industrial School. He never told us much about his past until his name was published in a book about Artane (without his permission I might add)

It was a breaking point because it gave reasons and answers as to why our family was totally disfunctional and why people were certain ways. Our own family life was quite tough as children, because of the effects of that place. It is only now that my Dad is in his late 60's that I can have any type of normal relationship with him, because to be honest, before that he had his own problems and lashed out at those closest to him. it is sometimes hard to relate the adult with their own issues to the unloved lonely child.

People all have comments about the topic, but until you have through it, honestly you havent got a clue.


He will certainly say there was some really good brothers there for the good of the children.

I will also say at this point that way some of the people were treated in respect of the monetary compensation issued was disgraceful, but obviously I cant go into too much for legal reasons.

To be perfectly honest people are going on about it in work today, and I know they mean well saying how awful it is etc, but to be honest I feel like telling them to sod off. I have actually said a couple to times today - my Dad grew up there and it has stopped the conversation in its tracks. It is easy to talk about it and then for it to be yesterdays news. Please be careful when you are having conversations with workmates/colleagues etc as some people may not wish to discuss it as a water cooler conversation when it is close to home.
 
This is the reason why I gave up on God many years ago,how if he exists could he stand by and let this happen to young innocent children.
After all he is God of power and might what good did that do for those children.
I can't believe that the cover up still goes on by that I mean nobody will be named or sent to jail which to me is to good for them(death penalty would be more appropriate for those monsters).The government agreed to this because there was people in power who knew this went on so this will now remain an unclosed case.
And now the talk of the 128 Million the church are giving and government now say to many legal reasons why they can't get more.If the church had any remorse or even any moral standing they would not have to be asked for more money they should quite simply just give it.
The one thing I will say is that a priest does not become a pedophile but rather a pedophile becomes a priest to gain access to young children.
But the church knew about this and the government of the time but they felt those children did not deserve their sympathy or help.Shame on them all.
 
I am saddened by this report - I am angry that children were not considered human by the church and state.
 
MandaC said:
I have been through this first hand as my Dad was an orphan and grew up in Artane Industrial School. He never told us much about his past until his name was published in a book about Artane (without his permission I might add)

It was a breaking point because it gave reasons and answers as to why our family was totally disfunctional and why people were certain ways. Our own family life was quite tough as children, because of the effects of that place. It is only now that my Dad is in his late 60's that I can have any type of normal relationship with him, because to be honest, before that he had his own problems and lashed out at those closest to him. it is sometimes hard to relate the adult with their own issues to the unloved lonely child.

People all have comments about the topic, but until you have through it, honestly you havent got a clue.


He will certainly say there was some really good brothers there for the good of the children.

I will also say at this point that way some of the people were treated in respect of the monetary compensation issued was disgraceful, but obviously I cant go into too much for legal reasons.

To be perfectly honest people are going on about it in work today, and I know they mean well saying how awful it is etc, but to be honest I feel like telling them to sod off. I have actually said a couple to times today - my Dad grew up there and it has stopped the conversation in its tracks. It is easy to talk about it and then for it to be yesterdays news. Please be careful when you are having conversations with workmates/colleagues etc as some people may not wish to discuss it as a water cooler conversation when it is close to home.
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Good post and I really feel for you but you would be amazed how many families are affected by it. I think most of us know someone who went through the system. At the moment, we are trying to get my Granny to go into a Nursing home as she needs full time care. She was an orphan and grew up in that system and while she never talked about, it was in one of the schools mentioned so I can get an idea about what went on. Made my dad and uncle promise that she would never be put in a home again but they are not in a position to provide the care she needs. Its heartbreaking. I know hearing about it must be difficult but I hope that people keep talking about it even if they don't fully understand the horrific nature and consequences of the abuse and neglect. This was hidden and spoken about in whispers for too long.
 
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