Speeding Ticket - Driver Number Not on Database

M

mathepac

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Last month I was issued with fixed penalty notice for speeding. I completed the form and returned the signed form and my cheque in payment of the fine and awaited notification that points had been added to my licence (the first I'd have received).

A few days later I got a letter from the payments processing section of an Garda Siochana, attaching the documents I sent them including my cheque, informing me that the licence number (driver number) I had given was not valid and they could not process the penalty notice.

I checked my licence with the information I had filled in on the Fixed Penalty Notice and they were identical, so I phoned the payments processing section and spoke with a member of staff (I don't know if this was a Guard or a civilian employee) who, after some consultation with a colleague, asked me to get a letter from the licencing authority explaining the situation regarding my licence, and stating that on receipt of the letter, that would be the end of the matter.

I contacted the licencing authority, who sent me a letter stating that my licence was one of a small number of licences issued using some old database and that it never got transferred to some new database, but that the licence was both valid and current.

I parcelled up this latest letter with all the other documentation and a cover note and sent it back to the Payments Processing Section last week.

Today I got a letter back from the Gardai instructing me to get a new licence and stating that it was imperative that I contact them at once when I get the new licence number as my existing licence number was invalid "through no fault of my own" to quote from the latest Garda letter.

My question is - why should I bother?

A secondary question is - can they compel me to get a new licence so they can stick points on it?

I inadvertantly uncovered a loophole in the system, do I now have to help the authorities plug it? Isn't it a bit like getting the bill for my own electric chair and the electricity it will use then being asked to throw the switch as well?
 
I would go back to the Gardai and just repeat what the licencing authority said - your licence is valid and current - it's not your fault the Gardai can't handle it.
 
I have heard worse about them, it involved a long running saga that started when they were sent cash to pay a fine......:rolleyes:
 
Just to add a further point - it might be worthwhile asking the Gardai what law if any you are breaking by having a "valid and current" licence as issued by a relevant licensing authority.

Under the Road Traffic Act 1961

21.—In this Part of this Act "licensing authority" means the council of a county or the corporation of a county borough.

23.—(1) Where an application is duly made for a driving licence, the licensing authority shall grant the licence .........

It's not up to the Gardai to determine what is a valid driving licence or not ( In my opinion)
 
exact same thing happened me, I left it with me saying "as far as I'm concerned I have a valid licence its up to ye to look after issuing me with the penaly points". heard nothing more for quite a number of weeks if not months till I got a letter in the post confirming that the points had been issued on my licence, worst part was that this was considerably long after the speeding offence, so from the time of the offence to until my licence will be cleared will be almost four years plus as the period runs over as regards my insurance renewal I will have five years in which I won;t have the benefit of a reduction for having no penalty points.
 
There is a different point that has not been considered: the offence attaches to you, not to your licence and by completing the notice you accepted guilt with no contest. The punishment is to place 2 points on your driving record aka putting the "points on your licence". You should write to the gardai explaining that you have accepted culpability and acknowledging their letter requesting you to apply for a new licence but you should state that you do not require a new licence rather the issue is that you require a new driver licence identity number and on that basis you are writing to the council to grant you such. You should copy the correspondence that you sent to the gardai with the previous correspondence to the council and in your letter to the council you should request that it sends you a new driver licence identity number and you should point out that without the council doing so the gardai will be unable to further process your points. That's moral way to do things, in my view.

On the other hand, legally, you accepted culpability, you tendered the requisite payment with appropriate documentation and this was returned to you - duty discharged, do nothing. The only problem might be is of you have met a zealous garda who will pursue this and it'll cost you more in legal rep than sorting it the other way.
 
Orga and others I don't think so. On a technicality the driver was done for speeding on a particular day in which he had a particular license. This is classed as valid by the licensing Authority, especially on the day of the offence. Therefore, surely if a new license is issued now, a length of time after the offence then the offence cannot be prosecuted on a different license which was not valid on the day of the offence. It is a technical matter for which I think you have done everything to fullfill your obligations. My gut is don't waste your time and money, but if uncertain ask a solicitor. Something similar happened to me and I walked into it. Sent my money and copy of my license. Garda cashed the cheque but spilt his coffee on the copy license and then telephoned me to call out the license number, which i did. Got my points but after asking a senior Garda that I know he told me I shouldn't have as I did what I was obliged to do originally and it was Garda's fault.
 
Sorry for your trouble mercman. what was your point again? :)

Orga's essential point above is that the points attach to the driver, not to the driver's license. I'm not sure if this is true, or if so, how it plays out, but if it were me, I'd be talking to a solicitor competent in these matters, rather than listening to opinions and anecdotes.
 
If the points attach to the driver, then why do they need a license. And if a person has a foreign license they can do damn all. The licence the OP had on the day is the matter which is important.
 
Thanks for all your inputs. I will consult a solicitor, as I was going to in any case.

For me there's one of them fierce dangerous yokes here, a "point of principle".

We the tax-payers have had our money spent on a Garda Traffic Corps, speed-cameras and other speed detection technology, legislation to enact Fixed Penalties for road traffic offences, the human and IT infrastructure to support implementation and I now find out that because some well-paid alikadoo's project plan was incomplete, I have to jump through hoops in order to take my medicine.

I put my hands up; what I did was stupid and dangerous, but I believe my moral and legal obligations stop somewhere short of acting as my own executioner - I have already paid for several of those and no doubt, I will continue to pay.

extopia said:
... I'd be talking to a solicitor competent in these matters, rather than listening to opinions and anecdotes.
Click to expand...

As I stated above, I will consult the legal oracle, but with all due respect extopia, the reason behind my original post was to gather opinions, expert or otherwise, and experiences. This to me is the real strength of AAM, the facility it provides us with to learn from others.

Thanks again, typing v-e-r-y s-l-o-w-l-y.
 
I would advise you write immediately to the Superintendent of the station where the garda involved is stationed. Explain that you tried to pay in time, that through absolutely no fault of your own you couldn't and I would bet it will be cancelled!! And drive at the legal limit in future!!
 
After a prompt from Orga (thanks!), here is the latest bulletin from the south-eastern front -

Got the following dated May 1st.

"Dear Mr. XXXXXXX,

I return herewith your cheque for 80.00 as the Notice cannot be processed due to the error with your driving licence.

Yours Sincerely. XXXXXXXXXX"

I think thats it - hopefully!
 
Mathepac has posted a reply from an official authority. gearoid, what is the matter with using 'herewith' ?? Maybe you would prefer to make your own official language. Try reading the rest of the posts before you jump to conclusions.
 
I will forthwith desist from making any attempt, lame or otherwise, at inserting humourous interjections into this forum
 
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