Fat Shaming

[Purple]

Why is Fat Shaming a thing?
If someone is fat then they are fat. Why the big push (no pun intended) to normalise something which is so unhealthy?
You're not "Curvy" or "Stocky", you're fat. And it may well kill you.

Everyone seems to think they have to right to comment on people who smoke. "Oh, you should give up. It's a disgusting habit." Really? Who knew!?
Yet telling a fat person that they should stop shovelling food into their face and get more exercise is akin to calling a black person the N word.
You don't hear smokers saying "Don't you smoke shame me!" All that despite smoking being far more addictive and being fat kills more people than smoking.

Should Heroin shaming be a thing?
"Don't you Beenzo-shame me!"
"Don't you alcoholic shame me!"

Actually maybe this might be a good thing.

 

[gianni]

Is it because being fat is not always something that can be controlled by the individual?

Certain medications and certain medical conditions can result in weight gain.

Although, I would speculate that the vast majority of our obese population are architects of their own misfortune.

 

[Purple]

Is it because being fat is not always something that can be controlled by the individual?

Certain medications and certain medical conditions can result in weight gain.

Sure, but unless they are magic XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX they still need to take in the calories to put on the weight. I'm not really saying that it's okay to make fun of fat people but why is it okay to have a go at other people who do things which are really unhealthy and may well kill them.

Although, I would speculate that the vast majority of our obese population are architects of their own misfortune.

Yep, just like some addicts become addicted due to a medical condition but most have done so because of peer group/ family influences.

 

[Betsy Og]

Well.....with smokers there's the 2nd hand smoke issue. With heroin there's the places that people end up going if/when they hit junkie status.

I guess with fat there's the point that they may not be harming anyone other than themselves (....& maybe not helping their kids). There's also a genetic element, some families are fat, them's the rules.

The biggest reason not to fat shame is probably that it's counterproductive. Making someone feel worthless is going to push them towards comfort eating. There's enough positive messages about the benefits of exercise, less visceral fat, healthy BMI etc. etc. without rounding on the poor divil with the saddlebags. I hate operation transformation btw, I'm relatively skinny but my heart goes out to them stepping on the scale bet into some black lycra.......

 

[Purple]

Well.....with smokers there's the 2nd hand smoke issue. With heroin there's the places that people end up going if/when they hit junkie status.

Sure, but we restrict where people can smoke and hard drugs are illegal.

I guess with fat there's the point that they may not be harming anyone other than themselves (....& maybe not helping their kids).

Is that the case though? We spend billions looking after the health impact of people being fat. That money could be so much better spent elsewhere.

There's also a genetic element, some families are fat, them's the rules.

True, genetics predisposes some people to being fat. It also predisposes some people to drug, alcohol or tobacco addiction.

The biggest reason not to fat shame is probably that it's counterproductive. Making someone feel worthless is going to push them towards comfort eating. There's enough positive messages about the benefits of exercise, less visceral fat, healthy BMI etc. etc. without rounding on the poor divil with the saddlebags. I hate operation transformation btw, I'm relatively skinny but my heart goes out to them stepping on the scale bet into some black lycra.......

I agree with all of that. I'm not in favour of shaming people for being overweight. I'm asking if it's a good idea to normalise it and why is it taboo to mention one serious health issue while addiction and other health issues are fair game?

 

[Betsy Og]

"Fat Shaming" is by definition mocking someone because of their weight.

It is entirely legitimate for your health professional to point it out to you, it is legitimate for Government to run heathly eating messages, warn about the risks of obesity with type 2 diabetes, heart disease, cancer etc. I don't consider any of that to be "Fat shaming".

As regards smoking and hard drugs - they can have direct health & societal impacts beyond the person themselves (esp the hard drugs). Obesity does not have the same direct impact, yes it of course has indirect impacts but so does everything else under the sun, we could save the State a packet with eugenics and a culling programme but until the PDs come back I don't see either of those things happening ..... that's a joke btw.... I don't see the PDs coming back.....

So we should encourage healthy lifestyles and weights, targeting individuals in person or print is not on.

 

[Baby boomer]

It's also feeding (see what I did there) into the whole eating disorder thing. It's a short step from "fat shaming" to skinny-idolisation. That's not helpful to anyone, particularly young kids and teenagers.

 

[Purple]

As regards smoking and hard drugs - they can have direct health & societal impacts beyond the person themselves (esp the hard drugs). Obesity does not have the same direct impact, yes it of course has indirect impacts but so does everything else under the sun, we could save the State a packet with eugenics and a culling programme but until the PDs come back I don't see either of those things happening ..... that's a joke btw.... I don't see the PDs coming back.....

If you smoke outside and do your Coke off the toilet in your nightclub of choice then who are you harming? I'm not advocating either but they are rightly socially unacceptable. Someone who is putting their life at risk due to their weight is somehow empowering themselves when they consider their condition to be okay. Given the large and increasing problem of obesity why is there the double standard of general advice about diet and exercise but if you choose to get no exercise and eat badly then you go girl; you're curvy and beautiful! (strangely it's still not really okay for men to be fat).

 

[Leper]

Speaking as an Unclean Leper I have to add that the high moral ground can be a low place to be. None of us is perfect (well, except for Purple!). Let he/she who is without blemish cast the first stone.

 

[Duke of Marmalade]

Apologies for going off topic but I really had to LOS. Menthol cigarettes have been banned Wednesday in accordance with EU directives. I used to smoke menthol cigs. Like Clinton before me I didn't inhale but I did like the taste. And apparently that is precisely why they are being banned - they taste nice!. This is Nanny state on steroids.
These days I get my taste kicks from a vape inhaler but this ruling still made me mad.

 

[Purple]

Speaking as an Unclean Leper I have to add that the high moral ground can be a low place to be. None of us is perfect (well, except for Purple!). Let he/she who is without blemish cast the first stone.

Thaank you, thank you very much.

 

[Purple]

Apologies for going off topic but I really had to LOS. Menthol cigarettes have been banned Wednesday in accordance with EU directives. I used to smoke menthol cigs. Like Clinton before me I didn't inhale but I did like the taste. And apparently that is precisely why they are being banned - they taste nice!. This is Nanny state on steroids.
These days I get my taste kicks from a vape inhaler but this ruling still made me mad.

I've bad news for you; the flavoured Vapes will be next.

 

[michaelm]

it is legitimate for Government to run heathly eating messages, warn about the risks of obesity with type 2 diabetes, heart disease, cancer etc.

More of this required perhaps. When I pass a bus stop it's usually the fat kid who's eating the crisps.

 

[Purple]

More of this required perhaps. When I pass a bus stop it's usually the fat kid who's eating the crisps.

I hope you don't say that to them.

 

[Betsy Og]

do your Coke off the toilet in your nightclub of choice then who are you harming?

Coke, I believe, can turn people very violent. Many would argue that hard drugs drives a lot of crime - people would do anything to get cash for next fix.

You seem to be railing about the opposite of fat shaming - "you go girl" etc. That's probably a reaction to fashion etc where stick thin has been lauded for decades and there's a weight loss industry. Any of the "plus size" models I've seen I don't think I'd call obese, they are fairly normal, bigger lasses yes but maybe that's not an affront to the universe.

 

[Purple]

You seem to be railing about the opposite of fat shaming - "you go girl" etc. That's probably a reaction to fashion etc where stick thin has been lauded for decades and there's a weight loss industry. Any of the "plus size" models I've seen I don't think I'd call obese, they are fairly normal, bigger lasses yes but maybe that's not an affront to the universe.

I'm talking about the normalisation of something which will shorten your life, impact on your quality of life, your ability to have children, the health of those children and cost the people of Ireland billions every year. Of course being underweight is medically bad as well but it's not as big a problem (no pun intended). I'm asking why doing other things which damage your health and the health of those around you (fat people have fat kids) is not okay but we are normalising being fat. 20% of men and 16% of women in this country are obese. 30% of women over 50 are obese. It is a national public health emergency. The biggest risk factor for Covid19 is obesity. It is a major factor in heart disease, cancer, hypertension, type-2 diabetes and many more diseases. It kills more people than smoking and costs the health service far more than cancer. It's not something people should be okay about.

 

[Peanuts20]

I'm overweight, why? I eat too much, don't get enough exercise and spend too much time sitting in the car commuting and in the office. I'm trying to do something about it and it takes time but I'm fat, simple as that and if someone calls me that, I have no issue with it as it's the truth.

People just need to get over their sensitivity. The "woke" generation are in reality sound asleep and super sensitive with an awful sense of entitlement

 

[Purple]

I'm overweight, why? I eat too much, don't get enough exercise and spend too much time sitting in the car commuting and in the office. I'm trying to do something about it and it takes time but I'm fat, simple as that and if someone calls me that, I have no issue with it as it's the truth.

People just need to get over their sensitivity.

I agree completely.

The "woke" generation are in reality sound asleep and super sensitive with an awful sense of entitlement

I'm not sure this is confined to the woke generation. I also don't think that calling out bigotry, misogyny and racism is a bad thing and I am strongly of the view that our retirees, the ones who think they built the country but actually wrecked it, are the most entitled we've ever had.

 

[ATC110]

As regards smoking and hard drugs - they can have direct health & societal impacts beyond the person themselves (esp the hard drugs). Obesity does not have the same direct impact, yes it of course has indirect impacts

Obesity is much more of an insidious problem than smoking or illicit drugs because it's socially acceptable and even celebrated by some

 

[mathepac]

Yep, just like some addicts become addicted due to a medical condition but most have done so because of peer group/ family influences.

Completely untrue and without a scintilla of scientific fact to back it up.

Unless an individual has a psychological or physiological predisposition, nothing can "make" them an addict. Studies after the Vietnam war established that US soldiers who abused heroin during their tours of service, gave up the drug easily upon returning home. They suffered some mild physiological (dirrhoea, sweating, a sleepless night or two maybe) withdrawal effects but not the horrors seen on film and TV.

I am amazed at the way otherwise, smart, educated people buy into the tabloid stories like "I'm an addict because - my parents didn't love me, we lived beside a pub, I didn't finish school, I never had the correct brand of runners as a kid, etc."

Addiction (chemical dependency) is not a secondary illness brought on by some other condition or illness, it stands as a primary illness. Unlike cancer for example which can result from environmental factors as well as "spontaneously" within the body, addiction is not a consequence of something else and is not caused by the substance(s) consumed and certainly not by peer or family pressures.

I see the nonsense of "hard drugs" has entered the conversation too. The other bad news is that there is no such thing as a hard or indeed a soft drug. Every addict has his or her drug(s) (or behaviours) of choice and that drug or combination of drugs is what floats his/her boat, bringing about their preferred altered state or preventing withdrawals.

There is, based on recent research, a "defective" gene that causes some obese people to eat to excess. This gene is supposed to trigger the "I'm full" message to stop eating, but for some people it doesn't fire. Despite repeated announcements of magic drugs and other treatments to cure addiction and genetic engineering initiatives to switch off chemical dependency, nothing so far has worked.

Like the poor, as long as we have humans, addiction and other primary and indeed secondary illness will most likely be always with us.