Central Remedial Clinic

[Sunny]

I thought nothing would shock me anymore but this is unreal.....

http://www.rte.ie/news/2013/1211/492113-crc-committee/

The bit that really gets me is this guy is secretary on two companies. He gets one company that raises money from the public to pay €3m to fund a pension scheme in the other company of which he is the biggest beneficiary. They call it a loan but the way it is described sounds like it will never be paid back. You could not make this up!

And then we hear that he is going to retire on a pension of about €120k a year after earning €240k a year!!

At the same as public sector and private sector workers are having their pensions decimated, these guys helped themselves to charitable donations to look after themselves. I didn't think anyone could match Fitzpatrick and Drumm for brazen necks but I was wrong.....

 

[cremeegg]

The purpose of many charitable organisations is to promote the careers of their senior staff.

Pay is only one aspect of this, self promotion is another. I would never again give a penny to Trocaire after the radio ads that started

"this is Justin Kilcoyne for Trocaire"

Melanie Verwoerd had a similar UNICEF ad as far as I remember.

 

[Purple]

This has been going on for a while, remember Rehab?
Justin Kilcullen's €130'000 a year is a bargain by comparison!

 

[demoivre]

I didn't think anyone could match Fitzpatrick and Drumm for brazen necks but I was wrong.....

Pat Neary, the Financial Regulator who presided over the worst banking crisis in Irish financial history and knew about Seanie Fitz's €129m secret loans, was rewarded for his "good work" with a €630,000 golden handshake and a bullet-proof public service pension of almost €143,000 a year !

 

[Sunny]

Pat Neary, the Financial Regulator who presided over the worst banking crisis in Irish financial history and knew about Seanie Fitz's €129m secret loans, was rewarded for his "good work" with a €630,000 golden handshake and a bullet-proof public service pension of almost €143,000 a year !

I know but Patrick Neary was merely one of the many useless overpaid politicians / senior civil servants who was rewarded by the system in place.

These guys knowingly took charitable donations to fund their overly generous pension scheme when it was in deficit. Did they even consider for a second maybe working longer or cutting benefits like other people are doing? They knew they were taking money that had been donated to help front line services. The fact that the biggest beneficiary was secretary of the two companies and there was overlap on the board just makes it worse.

I think I am a complete mug. I have checked my employment contracts and not one has a clause that allows my allower to cut my pay. And yet they do. Yet, these guys all shout about contractual obligations. What exactly is the contractual obligation that says their pay can't be cut? I am going to get it inserted in my next contract.

 

[Purple]

I know but Patrick Neary was merely one of the many useless overpaid politicians / senior civil servants who was rewarded by the system in place.

These guys knowingly took charitable donations to fund their overly generous pension scheme when it was in deficit. Did they even consider for a second maybe working longer or cutting benefits like other people are doing? They knew they were taking money that had been donated to help front line services. The fact that the biggest beneficiary was secretary of the two companies and there was overlap on the board just makes it worse.

I really don't see the difference between what these guys did and what the civil servants/ politicians etc. did. For example the HSE funds the CRC so waste/ excessive pay and pensions etc. in the HSE reduce the size of the pot available for the provision of services in just the same way.
All are funded by the public, some just through taxation and some through taxation and donations but it's all out of the pocket of the public.
It's all charity; the only difference is some of it is donated voluntary and some of it is not.

 

[Sunny]

I really don't see the difference between what these guys did and what the civil servants/ politicians etc. did. For example the HSE funds the CRC so waste/ excessive pay and pensions etc. in the HSE reduce the size of the pot available for the provision of services in just the same way.
All are funded by the public, some just through taxation and some through taxation and donations but it's all out of the pocket of the public.
It's all charity; the only difference is some of it is donated voluntary and some of it is not.

There is a huge difference. I know where my taxes go. I know that when I pay my taxes, some will go to building a school and some will go towards paying Bertie and all the other wasters a large pension. I might not like it but I know where I stand. There might be still waste and high pay / pensions in the public sector but at least they have all made a contribution in recent years through pay cuts and the like. What did these guys contribute? Nothing. The pension levy didn't even apply to them as it was a private fund.

This €3m 'loan' came from charitable donations from a special fundraising company set up to raise money from the public. It didn't even come from the HSE. Do you really believe that people were aware of where their donations were going? Did I miss something where they ran a special campaign to raise money for the poor executives pension fund?

Have we really got to the stage in this country where we expect ordinary people to pour over the accounts of charities and associated companies that they might donate to so things like this can't happen. I don't begrudge anyone working in charity earning a high salary or getting a good pension. But what these guys did was disgraceful. If there was a hole in their pension fund, they should have dealt with it like every other company. Not simply dip their hand into a pot of money that was donated in good faith.

 

[Purple]

I'm not defending what these guys have done. I am pointing out that waste and excessive pay and pensions in the HSE and the public sector have a direct impact on the provision of services for the most vulnerable and needy in society and yet the public don't seem to get exorcised about that at all. The mantra of "a lack of resources" is cited whenever there's another screw-up.

 

[Delboy]

I thought nothing would shock me anymore but this is unreal.....

http://www.rte.ie/news/2013/1211/492113-crc-committee/

The bit that really gets me is this guy is secretary on two companies. He gets one company that raises money from the public to pay €3m to fund a pension scheme in the other company of which he is the biggest beneficiary. They call it a loan but the way it is described sounds like it will never be paid back. You could not make this up!

And then we hear that he is going to retire on a pension of about €120k a year after earning €240k a year!!

At the same as public sector and private sector workers are having their pensions decimated, these guys helped themselves to charitable donations to look after themselves. I didn't think anyone could match Fitzpatrick and Drumm for brazen necks but I was wrong.....

The best part is that this guys pay was made up of HSE approved pay of 110k or so PLUS 130k or so in top ups (which included money from donations).
And what is his pension based on.....the full 240k!!!!!!! So his pension now is more than his HSE approved pay was.

On Joe Duffy earlier, fund raisers for the CRC said the Santa Bear appeal was doomed this year and they were returning lots of unopened boxes as the public were'nt interested.
And yet only 1 of this slieveens has had the deceny so far to resign.

A lot of them seem connected through the Mater hospital, which is Bertie's alma mater! And a lot of them were involved in dig outs and fundraisers for the Bert. And when that was pointed out to them today by Shane Ross, they were aghast at suggestions they got their jobs through knowing Bertie....you could'nt make it up.
And all reckoned they were highly and adequately qualified for jobs at the CRC....Paul Kiely was also on the board of CIE and of CERT!!!

The Mater has a right to appoint 2 members of the board at the CRC apparently.
And the HSE kept funding the CRC this year despite writing 8 letters to them about the appointment of Conlon as CEO without any resort to external candidates.
Where were the auditors again on this! Loans being awarded from Friends of the CRC in 1 part of the BS and being immediately written off in the same year!

Another scandal to add to my list for when the FF canvassers call to the door over the coming years.
And to think I innocently thought the Troika might rid this country of bad governance and bring us into the 20th century at least
I reckon we have'nt heard a fraction of the scandals out there yet in the charity sector or the HSE

 

[Black Sheep]

Why is nobody being asked to return their ill-gotten money. It would be interesting to hear their replies

 

[Delboy]

Why is nobody being asked to return their ill-gotten money. It would be interesting to hear their replies

Conlon has returned 40k...but to the HSE and not the CRC for some reason. Thats the value of the top up he received since being appointed CEO earlier this year.

The rest have'nt said anything about returning the cash. I presume they're using the L'Oreal argument given their statements today

 

[Bronte]

Another scandal to add to my list for when the FF canvassers call to the door over the coming years.
And to think I innocently thought the Troika might rid this country of bad governance and bring us into the 20th century at least

Well aren't FG and Labour currently putting their men in place. Is there any difference with FF?

And if they are doing this, the sure as hell don't want us to know about their own quangos and actions.

Yes, we were all innocent, but have you noticed any heads rolling.

Well done Shane Ross, at least he has month after month shown us some of the ongoing downright corruption that is what passes for governance. I note that a Goulding is on the board of the CRC, might they have the gumption to resign, as the founder of CRC would not have condoned what has been happening. If one resigns then maybe the rest will follow. Why not a march by the parents and fundraisers on the head office of the CRC with placards demanding a full board resignation.

As I write this I have a relative in Ireland involved in building a school. The teachers want to have a look at how it is progressing, it's 30 seconds from the current school, and they have demanded that their time looking is counted out as Croke Park hours.

 

[Liamos]

I really don't see the difference between what these guys did and what the civil servants/ politicians etc. did. For example the HSE funds the CRC so waste/ excessive pay and pensions etc. in the HSE reduce the size of the pot available for the provision of services in just the same way.
All are funded by the public, some just through taxation and some through taxation and donations but it's all out of the pocket of the public.
It's all charity; the only difference is some of it is donated voluntary and some of it is not.

Purple, you are normally a voice of reason on here. Can you not see the difference between the taxpayer knowing where his taxes are going, and the misappropriation of charitable donations given in good faith to help sick children?

I would have thought the Gardai should be getting involved here.

 

[Sunny]

Purple, you are normally a voice of reason on here. Can you not see the difference between the taxpayer knowing where his taxes are going, and the misappropriation of charitable donations given in good faith to help sick children?

I would have thought the Gardai should be getting involved here.

I would hope at least that the ODCE are taking a look considering the overlap that appears on the Boards of the two companies involved.

 

[Purple]

Purple, you are normally a voice of reason on here. Can you not see the difference between the taxpayer knowing where his taxes are going, and the misappropriation of charitable donations given in good faith to help sick children?

I would have thought the Gardai should be getting involved here.

The exchequer is by far the biggest contributor to charities in this country, whether it is the CRC or any other organisation that supports and/or provides services to the public.
If a patient of the CRC used to get €1000 worth of services or support but that €1000 is now being spent on wages top-ups or pensions whether that €1000 came from the exchequer or from a private donation it matters not a whit. It’s all the same pot and misspending of that money has the same impact on those who should be receiving the services.

By the same token if that €1000 never made it to the CRC in the first place because of waste etc. in the HSE (or wherever) then the impact on the patient is exactly the same.
The same applies to patients in hospitals, children in schools or homeless people on the street; if money that should be spent on them is wasted for whatever reason, (it doesn’t matter if it’s tax money or charitable donations because it all came from the public, just by different routes, and it doesn’t matter how it’s wasted be it through excessive pay or pensions, top-ups, laziness or inefficiency) the net result is the same; those who should receive help don’t get it.

BTW, maybe I’m churlish but I find Mr. Ross’s sanctimonious tones hard to listen to considering his relationship with Fingers Fingleton

 

[Sunny]

The difference is that State money in theory has to be accounted for. When the HSE gives money, it should and usually does ensure that the money is used for the purpose that it was meant. Hence why the top ups and the money for the pensions was not taken from HSE funding. They were too clever than that.

What these guys did was use charitable donations because they knew they didn't really have to justify what the money was being spent on.

I agree about Ross. He does some good work but he is quick to forget his own past and loves the sound of his own voice.

 

[Liamos]

The exchequer is by far the biggest contributor to charities in this country, whether it is the CRC or any other organisation that supports and/or provides services to the public.
If a patient of the CRC used to get €1000 worth of services or support but that €1000 is now being spent on wages top-ups or pensions whether that €1000 came from the exchequer or from a private donation it matters not a whit. It’s all the same pot and misspending of that money has the same impact on those who should be receiving the services.

By the same token if that €1000 never made it to the CRC in the first place because of waste etc. in the HSE (or wherever) then the impact on the patient is exactly the same.
The same applies to patients in hospitals, children in schools or homeless people on the street; if money that should be spent on them is wasted for whatever reason, (it doesn’t matter if it’s tax money or charitable donations because it all came from the public, just by different routes, and it doesn’t matter how it’s wasted be it through excessive pay or pensions, top-ups, laziness or inefficiency) the net result is the same; those who should receive help don’t get it.

BTW, maybe I’m churlish but I find Mr. Ross’s sanctimonious tones hard to listen to considering his relationship with Fingers Fingleton

I know the impact on the patient is the same. But people were donating their €10 or €20 every month by direct debit in the belief that it was going directly to help patients of the CRC. Instead, these guys were dipping their hands in to raid these funds. If we were in America, they would be perp walked for us all to see.

 

[Purple]

I know the impact on the patient is the same. But people were donating their €10 or €20 every month by direct debit in the belief that it was going directly to help patients of the CRC. Instead, these guys were dipping their hands in to raid these funds. If we were in America, they would be perp walked for us all to see.

I posted a link above from 2011 about the director of Rehab getting €400k a year. None of this is new. It's a disgrace and the fact that they money is coming from donations is new but the fact that money that should be going to serve the stated aim of the charity is going on massive wages isn't new.

 

[Bronte]

If there were no charitable donations how would the top ups be paid?

Is it correct that the HSC payments could only be paid to the board members up to the HSC level, but that the top up parts and pensions come out of donations. What happens then if it's a contractual matter and there is no money in the donations to pay them. Why would the board sue?

 

[Sunny]

I posted a link above from 2011 about the director of Rehab getting €400k a year. None of this is new. It's a disgrace and the fact that they money is coming from donations is new but the fact that money that should be going to serve the stated aim of the charity is going on massive wages isn't new.

That's true. I was always under the impression that these charites for some reason had pay levels linked to the civil service. I assumed that since public pay and pensions have been hit, that these charities responded accordingly. It appears that the CRC thought they were different. Question is how many other charities out there are using donations to top up State funding to maintain high pay and pensions.

To be honest, it is just the brass neck of it that gets me. They didn't just use donated money. They actually arranged a non-interest inter company loan that was then pretty much written off to prop up the pension pot of the same people who made the decison to make the loan. The planning that went into it was huge. And not one of them stood up and said hang on a second. I would have more respect for some of the people in Mountjoy.