Croke Park agreement: Invoke clause 1.28. (IT Opinion Article Eddie Molloy)

thedaras

Registered User
Messages
812
There has been a lot of talk lately about the Croke Park agreement and that paying 70% of the health budget is no longer justifiable.

Here are some of the views expressed in the Irish Times:

[broken link removed]

CLAUSE 1.28 of the Croke Park agreement on public service pay and conditions states: “The implementation of this agreement is subject to no currently unforeseen budgetary deterioration.”

It is time for the Government to snap out of its denial and invoke clause 1.28. The country cannot afford to maintain the Croke Park agreement until 2014, and its inherent unfairness is deeply damaging to society. The agreement is fundamentally flawed on economic and moral grounds.
 
they won't invoke it...won't even think about it....the Unions run this country
 
The cabinet had their first meeting back recently after the summer break.

Following the meeting Government Chief Whip Paul Kehoe stated that the coalition was " absolutely committed " to the Croke Park Agreement.

The Cabinet are determined to stick with the Croke Park Agreement for the last year of it's term & hope that a more ambitious plan can be introduced subsequently - pending negotiations with the Unions of course.

I note that the Herald is reporting that another , more targetted , voluntary redundancy scheme is going to be introduced by the Government seeking a further 10,000 redundancies over 3 years , further evidence , if any more was needed , that the Government are pursuing every avenue to ensure core pay remains protected.
 
I note that the Herald is reporting that another , more targetted , voluntary redundancy scheme is going to be introduced by the Government seeking a further 10,000 redundancies over 3 years , further evidence , if any more was needed , that the Government are pursuing every avenue to ensure core pay remains protected.

Sounds lovely. How will services to those who fund the public sector be affected? Or will we just keep borrowing on the never-never for the craic?
 
further evidence , if any more was needed , that the Government are pursuing every avenue to ensure core pay remains protected.
And that's the problem. The country can't deliver the services it needs at existing core pay rates.
 
CLAUSE 1.28 of the Croke Park agreement on public service pay and conditions states: “The implementation of this agreement is subject to no currently unforeseen budgetary deterioration.”

Was ther any "currently unforseen budgetary deterioration"?
 
And that's the problem. The country can't deliver the services it needs at existing core pay rates.

But as you have pointed out yourself - PS workers have suffered enough pay cuts - now is the time for job cuts - unless my memory fails me ?

10,000 further voluntary redundancies must surely please you ?
 
There is still scope for further cuts in some core PS pay - medical consultants being the standouts as still overpaid compared with their European counterparts. Increments should also be looked at - why are there so many increments in a job where it shouldn't take much more than 3-5 years max to reach very close to full training. Is a 20 year qualified primary school teacher much better than a 5 year qualified teacher? Do people in admin jobs get progressively better every year for 20 years?
 
But as you have pointed out yourself - PS workers have suffered enough pay cuts - now is the time for job cuts - unless my memory fails me ?

10,000 further voluntary redundancies must surely please you ?

time for voluntary redundancies are long gone....that only hurts services to the public, as good people take the borrowed money and leave.
time to specifically select the slackers and inept and show them the door....that is if the PS unions are sincere in their public utterances about maintaining services to the highest possible standard
 
time for voluntary redundancies are long gone....that only hurts services to the public, as good people take the borrowed money and leave.
Time to specifically select the slackers and inept and show them the door....that is if the ps unions are sincere in their public utterances about maintaining services to the highest possible standard

+1
 
time for voluntary redundancies are long gone....that only hurts services to the public, as good people take the borrowed money and leave.
time to specifically select the slackers and inept and show them the door....that is if the PS unions are sincere in their public utterances about maintaining services to the highest possible standard

As reported by the Herald , another 10,000 voluntary redundancies are to be sought - such redundancies are to be targetted.

These redundancies are being sought by the Government as employers , I'm sure they will consult with the Unions on the implementation of the scheme.

Essentially though this is an employer driven scheme with peripheral Union involvement - perhaps you should be directing your ire elsewhere ?
 
time for voluntary redundancies are long gone....that only hurts services to the public, as good people take the borrowed money and leave.
time to specifically select the slackers and inept and show them the door....that is if the PS unions are sincere in their public utterances about maintaining services to the highest possible standard

You don't seem to understand the difference between redundancy and performance management. You don't make people redundant because of their performance. You make posts redundant when those jobs are not required.
 
Yes but a post is not necessarily person-specific in a one-to-one way. If there are many people doing the same job and one (or more) needs to be made redundant (eg only 15 posts required not 20 so 5 posts redundant) - better to let go the under performers?

Deiseblue, what do you mean by 'such redundancies are to be targetted'? Targetted in a posts way (we don't need this post anymore; no-one has applied for voluntary redundancy from this post so we'll remove someone on a last in-first out basis) or in a targetting underperformers way (we need to reduce headcount so we'll target our underperformers)?
 
The Croke Park Agreement is written in stone and let's face it it is going to be honoured and rightly so. There are many ways to "skin a cat" and Public Service agencies would be better employed pro-actively reducing the payroll. This is not an impossible task. Look at
(a) The amount of people who willingly would take a No Pay Career Break - let them have it
(b) The many who would accept reduced working hours on an on-going basis - let them have it
(c) Parental Leave (the new biggie) let them all have it, even for years.
(d) Extend a new non paid type of Maternity Leave.

All of above carry Zero-Rate-of-Pay and would have immediate and good "results"
 
Yes but a post is not necessarily person-specific in a one-to-one way. If there are many people doing the same job and one (or more) needs to be made redundant (eg only 15 posts required not 20 so 5 posts redundant) - better to let go the under performers?

Deiseblue, what do you mean by 'such redundancies are to be targetted'? Targetted in a posts way (we don't need this post anymore; no-one has applied for voluntary redundancy from this post so we'll remove someone on a last in-first out basis) or in a targetting underperformers way (we need to reduce headcount so we'll target our underperformers)?

The last redundancy package was open to all in order to achieve the required numbers .- basically everyone that applied was accepted - Garda , nurses , firefighters , civil servants , social welfare staff et al .

Under a targetted scheme - the Government & their advisors will decide on the areas that they feel need trimming & offer voluntary redundancies on that basis.

This has proved problematic in the past as such a scheme was rolled out in the HSE & the take up was way lower than the target numbers sought.
 
The last redundancy package was open to all in order to achieve the required numbers .- basically everyone that applied was accepted - Garda , nurses , firefighters , civil servants , social welfare staff et al .

Under a targetted scheme - the Government & their advisors will decide on the areas that they feel need trimming & offer voluntary redundancies on that basis.

This has proved problematic in the past as such a scheme was rolled out in the HSE & the take up was way lower than the target numbers sought.

and thats what you call targeted!!!! it's Voluntary, no matter how it is dressed up

Targeted means pointing out jobs/people/posts (call it whatever you want) and saying time to go, here's some borrowed Troika cash, good luck....not letting more good people apply for Voluntary redundancy to leave thereby affecting services to the public
 
and thats what you call targeted!!!! it's Voluntary, no matter how it is dressed up

Targeted means pointing out jobs/people/posts (call it whatever you want) and saying time to go, here's some borrowed Troika cash, good luck....not letting more good people apply for Voluntary redundancy to leave thereby affecting services to the public

I never dressed it up - I always referred to this proposed redundancy scheme as " voluntary "

The Government as a consenting party to the Croke Party Agreement cannot force compulsory voluntary ( a contradiction I know ! ) redundancies on any PS employee.

This time it appears that they will decide what areas & employees are in scope & what areas & employees are not enabling them to decide who they feel can be let go - this time around the Government & their advisors can decide who should go rather than the previous scheme where basically anybody who applied was successful.

I should point out that details of this scheme has yet to be agreed with the Unions & as I have already pointed out a previous scheme along the same lines in the HSE was poorly subscribed to.
 
so,lets say the HSE is chosen by the Govt....will the local Mgmt be allowed tap specific employees on the shoulder and say your time is up?
Or are you saying anyone in the HSE will be allowed go if they volunteer to do so?
 
Back
Top