TDs' and Senators' expenses

Brendan Burgess

Brendan Burgess

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This [broken link removed] is really crazy .

The travel and accommodation allowance will range from €12,000 per annum for Dublin deputies to €37,850 for those living 360km or more from Leinster House. Those qualifying for the highest amount would be confined to a number of deputies living in west Cork, west Kerry and Donegal.

The second allowance will allow TDs to receive an unvouched amount of €15,000 per annum or a fully vouched amount of €25,700. This is paid towards meeting the costs of constituency office expenses including mobile telephones, home telephones, advertising, publishing of leaflets and room hire. Any TD who exceeds the €15,000 threshold will have to provide receipts for the entire amount.
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Travel and accommodation is fair enough.

But I don't think any TD could run their job on €15,000 a year so they will all have to opt for the €25,000.

Our legislators will now have to waste time keeping expenses and carefully checking them and logging them. Imagine the headlines if they make a mistake?
That means that a whole new army of civil servants will be allocated to check them and to process them.
The newspapers will be keeping other civil servants busy with FoI requests.

Oireachtas members are not well paid. They have taken pay cuts.

We know that it is an expensive business to run a constituency office and perform as a TD.

Give them a fair lump-sum allowance for their exenses and cut the administration to a minimum.
 
Other than the amount of staff required to administer the system, another problem is that it makes it more difficult for less well-off people to become TDs. Rich auctioneers and solicitors who have accumulated wealth won't be affected that much. But the normal PAYE employee who becomes a TD will find it a very expensive business.
 
Why do TD's in Dublin get any travel and accommodation allowances?

I agree with you about the lumpsum to run the office. It's poor. Even though, I presume they get extra for hiring staff. Having said that, it comes back to what we expect of our TD's. Alot of the money is spent on doing things that make sure they are re-elected again. They are doing a whole lot of tasks that could be done by local councillors.

The clocking in thing is bizarre.
 
Has it occured to them, that in the real world, I dont get an extra 12K to pay for my travel to work, and if I dont show up, every single day for work, I get my pay docked immediately.

The poor diddums have to show up for work for a whole 120 days a year, in order to get the 12K extra to pay them to show up, on top of their salary.

Also, if you are not there because you are sick, they don't dock your travel expenses.

But, if you are sick and can't go to the Dail, you don't have any travel expenses.

Its laughable, I can't wait for the next TD that I meet to justify that.
 
Ronan, TD's do most of their work outside the Dail. They work in their constituency offices as well as in the Dail so they are, technically, travelling between two work locations.
What I don't understand is why any TD gets paid directly for expenses relating to the running of their office. They should have a business account into which a lump sum is deposited and from which they cannot take any money for personal use. That way their personal expenses (expenses incurred while conducting their duties as a TD) are still vouched but their office expenses are covered. All donations should also be paid into the same business/office account. That way it can be proven that they are not deriving any personal gain from any un-vouched payments or donations.
If they do take any money from that account for personal use they should be dismissed from office.
 
RonanC said:
A TD commented on live tv the other night that he spends his time facilitating their constituents who want pot holes filled or obtaining medical cards. This is not the job description of a TD and they should not be allowed do it.
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If they didn't do that they'd lose their seat. We get the TD's we deserve.
 
Purple said:
Ronan, TD's do most of their work outside the Dail. They work in their constituency offices as well as in the Dail so they are, technically, travelling between two work locations.
What I don't understand is why any TD gets paid directly for expenses relating to the running of their office. They should have a business account into which a lump sum is deposited and from which they cannot take any money for personal use. That way their personal expenses (expenses incurred while conducting their duties as a TD) are still vouched but their office expenses are covered. All donations should also be paid into the same business/office account. That way it can be proven that they are not deriving any personal gain from any un-vouched payments or donations.
If they do take any money from that account for personal use they should be dismissed from office.
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I know well that TD's do "most" of their work within their constituencies. I have studied Government and how it works. My point is, those who live within the greater Dublin area should not be able to claim expenses as they simply do not have to travel anywhere near the distances that others do. They can easily commute using public transport (DART, LUAS and Dublin Bus) to and from their constituencies like everyone else has to. If they have to travel out of their area for instance then they could claim for travel and so on.


Purple said:
If they didn't do that they'd lose their seat. We get the TD's we deserve.
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Filling pot holes is the role of the local authority which is controlled by local councils and run by city and county councillors and not by TD's. It has nothing to do with them and therefore it should be removed from them.

Medical cards is the responsibility of the HSE and TD's should not be allowed dicate whether someone gets one or not. Its disgraceful !
 
I don't think TDs do dictate who should get medical cards. I think they promise to 'look into it', due process follows and, if the person does get the card, they claim the credit. The same with affordable housing, headage grants and so on.
I totally agree that TDs should not be doing this kind of bread and butter stuff but also agree with Purple. It is the fault of the electorate for voting based on this kind of stuff. How many times have you heard someone say that they'll give soandso a vote because he was great 'that time we had the problem with the halting site' or whatever.
 
RonanC said:
I know well that TD's do "most" of their work within their constituencies. I have studied Government and how it works. My point is, those who live within the greater Dublin area should not be able to claim expenses as they simply do not have to travel anywhere near the distances that others do. They can easily commute using public transport (DART, LUAS and Dublin Bus) to and from their constituencies like everyone else has to. If they have to travel out of their area for instance then they could claim for travel and so on.
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I don't think TD's should be asked to use public transport. If any employee of mine was using the bus to get to meetings, thus using up paid time travelling that should be used productivly, I'd get rid of them.


RonanC said:
Filling pot holes is the role of the local authority which is controlled by local councils and run by city and county councillors and not by TD's. It has nothing to do with them and therefore it should be removed from them.

Medical cards is the responsibility of the HSE and TD's should not be allowed dicate whether someone gets one or not. Its disgraceful !
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I agree with all of that but it seems that the majority of the electorate don't.
 
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Purple said:
I don't think TD's should be asked to use public transport. I an employee of mine was using the bus to get to meetings, thus using up paid time travelling that should be used productivly, I'd get rid of them. I.
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I agree. But civil servants are no longer allowed use taxis except in exceptional circumstances. Therefore, instead of three senior managers sharing a taxi to and from a meeting they now must walk or get the bus. Therefore, in order to save €30-€40 on a taxi, you now have three senior personnel out of the office for at least an extra hour each, for which they are being paid. It doesn't really make sense.
 
liaconn said:
I agree. But civil servants are no longer allowed use taxis except in exceptional circumstances. Therefore, instead of three senior managers sharing a taxi to and from a meeting they now must walk or get the bus. Therefore, in order to save €30-€40 on a taxi, you now have three senior personnel out of the office for at least an extra hour each, for which they are being paid. It doesn't really make sense.
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I agree, it's utterly stupid.
 
Purple said:
I don't think TD's should be asked to use public transport. I an employee of mine was using the bus to get to meetings, thus using up paid time travelling that should be used productivly, I'd get rid of them.
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I presume they pay BIK on this allowance just like anyone who gets a company car has to? Any TD from Dublin who spends €12,000 a year on travel for official business must live in their car.
 
TD's have been getting away with murder for years. The whole area needs to be reformed, but, the Dáil will never do this themselves. However, if they did so, the electorate's respect for their representatives would increase.

The appointment of TDs' parliamentary secretaries and admin staff should be removed from the TD's and be carried out by the civil service. This would minimise nepotism. Internships could be implemented instead e.g. appoint graduates of political science, business, economics, arts etc to these positions. This would be akin to also serving an apprenticeship and would encourage highly educated people to enter politics as representatives of the people at future elections. It would also minimise sons, daughters, brothers and sisters assuming a TD's candidacy to the exclusion of other candidates just because of their name and relationship to the outgoing TD.

Requests for medical cards, passports, social welfare allowances and other services on behalf of constituents should not be tolerated and instead redirected to usual channels.

The travel allowances, for simply turning up on the relatively few days (120?) that the Dáil and senate sit, are ridiculous. By all means, provide overnight accomodation for country TD's, but, this could be provided by local hotels, of which their
is now a surfeit. Companies are using this method of accomodating staff who travel to work on specific projects or attend meetings overnight e.g. A signifficant amount of Bewleys Hotels' income is earned this way at circa €50 per person per night.

Provision of offices in constituencies could also be managed (rents, establishment services, rates) by the OPW. For
instance, in Swords here in Fingal, what is wrong with OPW renting one modern office on a business park with proper
facilities for all sitting TD's?

Stricter enforcement of BIK and tax rates equivalent to the rates for the electorate should also be enforced.
Donations should be accounted for centrally. TD's still avail of subtle freebies from local chambers, companies and even sporting organizations for favours to be done in the future. This is wrong. The American lobby system would be more transparent, though not perfect either.

If the above measures and other improvements were implemented, TD's would be free to focus on the mandated priorities of office and the difficult tasks of running the country while representing their constituents in a professional and business like manner.
 
Edited post - my bad language nearly brought about my downfall :)

Brendan, I find some of your statements to be completly off the wall.

TD's are paid much more than a generous salary of €92,672 per year which is €1782 per week. This does not include any allowances that are given to them.

TD's who have been in the Dail for 10years or longer receive an extra €5,752 per year. (Clerical Officers in the Civil Service receive two extra days annual leave per year after 10 years service)

Junior Ministers receive an extra €46,594 on top of their basic pay

Brian Cowen receives an extra €135,794 per year on top of his salary for being Taoiseach.

On top of their generous salary most of the 166 TD's are currently sitting on some sort of committee or another and are given even more money for doing this. Chairpersons receive an extra €9,511 per year

They are also allowed to claim €41,092 for a parliamentary assistant per year (which is usually a family member - (no interviews or competitions for this job I can tell you!!)

And the one that really takes the biscuit is TD's who receive a ministerial and other pensions while still working or on paid leave of absenses from their "original job".

Any TD living within the greater Dublin area should not be allowed claim a single cent for driving into Dail Eireann. However, if they use public transport they should be allowed claim expenses for using this mode of transport.

A TD commented on live tv the other night that he spends his time facilitating their constituents who want pot holes filled or obtaining medical cards. This is not the job description of a TD and they should not be allowed do it.

And as for clocking in and out of work, Dail Eireann only sits 3 days a week. And should I even mention the long breaks they take at christmas and during the summer?

Reform is needed, and it must start at the very top. Our elected representatives should feel privileged to have such an amazing job and not be "privileged" for doing it.
 
I do not believe TDs can be trusted.
Every cent of their expenses should be accounted for - just like normal people.
 
I can live with the fact that there is an expense to being a TD. I can live with the fact that these expenses need to be repaid. I can even, just about, live with the average levels of expense. I just don't see why the normal revenue commissioner's rules can't apply.

It isn't difficult to keep receipts, it isn't difficult to account for each expense. If I don't, I don't get my expenses.
 
Brendan said:
This [broken link removed] is really crazy .


Our legislators will now have to waste time keeping expenses and carefully checking them and logging them. Imagine the headlines if they make a mistake? .
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But this is precisely what ordinary taxpayers have to do. One has to keep every single receipt if one is self employed and woe betide us if we make one single solitary mistake in our profit and loss return. My other half works for a private company and he has to do a monthly expense report with everything on it, and a receipt and justification for everything down to a cup of coffee at the airport.

I don't understand why the politicians should have one system for them and one system for everybody else.

The amount they get paid combined with their allowances are obscene. I don't mind people getting well paid. But many of them seem to be paid an awful lot to get medical cards and fix pothhles.

We need a full scale reform of this gravy train, starting with constitutency work being abolished.
 
latrade said:
i can live with the fact that there is an expense to being a td. I can live with the fact that these expenses need to be repaid. I can even, just about, live with the average levels of expense. I just don't see why the normal revenue commissioner's rules can't apply.

It isn't difficult to keep receipts, it isn't difficult to account for each expense. If i don't, i don't get my expenses.
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+1
 
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