# How many people are they expecting for the ICTU march on Saturday?



## elefantfresh (23 Nov 2010)

Any ideas? I havent heard or seen anything.


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## Caveat (23 Nov 2010)

Well whilst I'm not exactly a media junkie I'm neither blind nor deaf either - but I didn't even know there was a march ?!


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## thedaras (23 Nov 2010)

[broken link removed]

I have heard that the army are on stand by....
Personally I wouldn't go near this march.Too many vested interests.


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## callybags (23 Nov 2010)

thedaras said:


> I have heard that the army are on stand by....


 
To make sure they march in time?


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## TarfHead (23 Nov 2010)

caveat said:


> well whilst i'm not exactly a media junkie i'm neither blind nor deaf either - but i didn't even know there was a march ?!


 
+1


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## thedaras (23 Nov 2010)

Callybags;





> To make sure they march in time?




Huh?
To me its a sign that they are expecting trouble, so most  who are not in favour of what the unions are saying/believing/expecting etc will stay well away from it.


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## Shawady (23 Nov 2010)

I think it could get nasty alright.
Probably highjacked by the usual suspects.


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## thedaras (23 Nov 2010)

Yep..just look at what happened at the students march and the man outside the dail a few days ago,when standing in front of Hanafins car.
Its important that people know this march is being led by the unions TEEU.


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## callybags (23 Nov 2010)

thedaras said:


> Callybags;
> 
> 
> Huh?
> To me its a sign that they are expecting trouble, so most who are not in favour of what the unions are saying/believing/expecting etc will stay well away from it.


 
Twas a joke. Forgot my smiley


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## thedaras (23 Nov 2010)

Opps , didn't get it..

Anyhow it would be very hard for me to stomach listening to the bearded brethren shouting about fighting the good fight..


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## RMCF (24 Nov 2010)

I'd go with 5000 max. People are past caring now I think.


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## Yorrick (24 Nov 2010)

The march is being led by the supporters of benchmarking and high taxation. The blind leading the blind


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## Deiseblue (24 Nov 2010)

Yesterday's Indo forecasted an attendance of 80,000 but said given the recent level of public outrage it could be more.

Here's hoping !


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## Sunny (24 Nov 2010)

What are they marching for?


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## thedaras (24 Nov 2010)

People need to know that this is a union led/organised march..

ICTU leadership willingly sat on boards that oversaw massive waste and corruption and gross incompetence (Fas, Central Bank, CIE etc etc

And although we are told that the budget being passed is essential,the unions do not want it passed..as per this;Irish times;Eamon Devoy..
“When the draconian measures being proposed are heaped on top of the €14.5 billion cuts already implemented in the last three brutal budgets, life in Ireland will be unbearable.”.
I would go on a march but not one organised by a union...


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## fobs (24 Nov 2010)

thedaras said:


> People need to know that this is a union led/organised march..
> 
> ICTU leadership willingly sat on boards that oversaw massive waste and corruption and gross incompetence (Fas, Central Bank, CIE etc etc
> 
> ...


 
+1. woudn't be assocaited with it for love nor money. It will have a mob element and could turn nasty especially as people do not really know what they are protesting about. "No cuts" is a stupid message as there has to be cuts and pointless protesting until we know the facts of the budget first.


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## Boyd (24 Nov 2010)

It'll probably end up like the Love Ulster parade a few years ago.....


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## Complainer (24 Nov 2010)

I'll be there, for the start at least. Unfortunately, I had already committed to work that afternoon, so I'll be pulling out early.


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## villa 1 (24 Nov 2010)

People should march and protest against the bunch of Muppets and bankers that have sold our souls to the eurocrats. The cuts are inevitable but this should never happen again in anyone's lifetime. Get rid of the irish style sicilian politic. There are too many people sitting on their backsides taking this enforced medicine. Fighting Irish my ar....e


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## Caveat (24 Nov 2010)

villa 1 said:


> People should march and protest against the bunch of Muppets and bankers that have sold our souls to the eurocrats. The cuts are inevitable but this should never happen again in anyone's lifetime. Get rid of the irish style sicilian politic. There are too many people sitting on their backsides taking this enforced medicine. Fighting Irish my ar....e


 
All well and good - but the march isn't just to express general disgruntlement - there has to be a specific ICTU agenda.

I'm not even sure what it is though. Not sure they do either.


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## shnaek (24 Nov 2010)

It's all very easy to go out on a march, but will people take the time, effort and hard work it will take to change our political system? To go out and vote in every election, to take part in debates, to take part in politics? A march on some vague notion is simply not enough. It is the Irish people's reponsibility as citizens to work hard to change how our country is run.


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## Latrade (24 Nov 2010)

shnaek said:


> It's all very easy to go out on a march, but will people take the time, effort and hard work it will take to change our political system? To go out and vote in every election, to take part in debates, to take part in politics? A march on some vague notion is simply not enough. It is the Irish people's reponsibility as citizens to work hard to change how our country is run.


 
Yes but that's not as much fun as following a crowd, chanting and if possible getting the chance to throw a few bricks before getting beaten by the gardai. If we all did it the proper way through elections, then Charlie Bird would be able to go into a shop and buy chewing gum without getting assaulted and where's the justice in that?


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## Caveat (24 Nov 2010)

Deiseblue said:


> Yesterday's Indo forecasted an attendance of 80,000


 
But sure you can't believe the PS hating anti-union Indo Deiselblue...


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## Deiseblue (24 Nov 2010)

Caveat said:


> But sure you can't believe the PS hating anti-union Indo Deiselblue...



I've never had a problem with the Indo , nor the Beano or the Dandy


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## levelpar (24 Nov 2010)

> I'd go with 5000 max.



Are there that many in Sinn Fein and the IRA ?


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## Leper (24 Nov 2010)

These marches are useless and will have no effect.  The unions will have to come up with original ideas on how to protest.  Can anybody on here come up with original protesting ideas?


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## thedaras (24 Nov 2010)

And some PS workers are actually expressing surprise at what they see as a good outcome for them!!
This might reduce the amount of people who turn up for the march,they seem to think they got away lightly and may not want to upset the apple cart..


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## Deiseblue (24 Nov 2010)

thedaras said:


> And some PS workers are actually expressing surprise at what they see as a good outcome for them!!
> This might reduce the amount of people who turn up for the march,they seem to think they got away lightly and may not want to upset the apple cart..



Nobody has gotten away lightly in this budget , not the private sector , the public sector or the unemployed -  let's not kid ourselves everybody will suffer.


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## thedaras (24 Nov 2010)

Its the PS workers themselves who are saying this
I can only presume they will be given short shrift very quickly


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## Deiseblue (24 Nov 2010)

thedaras said:


> Its the PS workers themselves who are saying this
> I can only presume they will be given short shrift very quickly



I presume you have access to the views of a representative cross section of the Public Sector to reflect your assertion ?

After all the Croke Park agreement guaranteed that there would be no pay cuts or voluntary redundancies which apparently is to be honoured by the Government with the tacit approval of the IMF who have signed off on the 4 year plan.


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## thedaras (24 Nov 2010)

You don't have to look/listen to far too see the views expressed..

Croke park agreement has a clause,something to do with a change in the economy? , I am not naive enough to believe the government did not exercise this clause for any other reason than to keep the PS on their side,knowing that the next government will do just that ,and FF will walk away with their so called agreement in tact and a few seats thrown in..
It wont last...2.8 billion cuts in social welfare payments vs 1.2 billion saving in public sector pay.


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## Deiseblue (25 Nov 2010)

Look where , listen where ? - point me in the right direction.

The IMF are essentially formulating our 4 year plan and subsequent budgets and obviously see the CP agreement as workable.

I know that certain people held huge hopes that the IMF would slash PS wages and impose compulsory redundancies but obviously and thankfully the IMF felt differently.

As for FF hoping that the 4 year plan would help to secure Public Sector votes then I think that that is really an abject hope.


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## Maximus152 (25 Nov 2010)

You keep using PS.. this could be Public or Private sector, bit confusing for me anyway, not been smart. In anycase the civil service  will also experience cuts and if anyone thinks thats not going to happen big style they are completely and utterly deluded, it will not be up to us, it will be enforced by our IMF buddies. Its purely economics.... and they will want to balance books if I am wrong well then I eat my copy of the Lisbon treaty..oops thats rite I never got one..oh well.


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## lightswitch (25 Nov 2010)

Leper said:


> These marches are useless and will have no effect. The unions will have to come up with original ideas on how to protest. Can anybody on here come up with original protesting ideas?


 

Nothing that is not likely to get me arrested.  I will be attending the march on Saturday, not a PS, nor a member of a Trade Union.  But it is the only form of visable protest that I can take part in.  I hope its huge, it needs to be.


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## thedaras (25 Nov 2010)

Lightswitch; please look at the following before you make that decision.
There are many of us who would like to go on a march/protest but not one led by the union.!!

[broken link removed]


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## lightswitch (25 Nov 2010)

Just thougth of one.  Give every child in the Country a badge that says " I OWE 60k!  WHY?


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## thedaras (25 Nov 2010)

Or, As I grow so does my debt!!


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## Mpsox (25 Nov 2010)

Personally speaking, I won't be there, as I hold ICTU as partially responsible for the state the country is in, what with slush funds and abdicating their responsibility to the country as a whole in their rush for benchmarking. To me, going on an ICTU organsied march is no different then going on a march organised by property developers, bankers or FF or FAS. They're all part of the same golden circle that have screwed the country


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## thedaras (25 Nov 2010)

Well said Mpsox..see my post three above,( number 35 )!!


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## elefantfresh (25 Nov 2010)

> There are many of us who would like to go on a march/protest but not one led by the union.!!



So what to do? March with the Shinners next week? Wait for Joe and Boyd Barrett to give us a shout?
I'm not in any union (or PS) and I'm in agreement that they are part of the problem for sure, but there is a lot of talk on other forums also about this and people saying to march as a protest to the Government rather than to support the union.
Sigh, I'm at a loss to be honest. What a mess.


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## thedaras (25 Nov 2010)

I agree elefantfresh.
I think this is a fundamental problem that we in this country have,in that we have a choice of voting for tweedle de or tweedle dum,and the other tweedles,now this in not much of a choice is it? And yet we are doing the right thing by voting.

Its the same with the march, its the unions leading it,or as you say the shinners next week,so once again we are left with very little choice.

I suppose for me I do want to support a protest against the government but I believe that the unions will see it as major win for them..not us.

I have said it before that someone brave in opposition needs to stand up and be counted and organise a peaceful protest ,calling for the exit of the present government.
But I dont think anyone is prepared to do just that!


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## elefantfresh (25 Nov 2010)

I mentioned these guys in my previous post - they seem to be up to something that could be good.

"A new alliance of political parties has threatened today to embark on a campaign of sustained resistance on the streets to force the Government out of office"

A campaign of sustained resistance - as long as that was peaceful and all legal I think that could be an option.

Saying that, I don't even know what I'm protesting against anymore - these guys in charge have just mentally battered me to bits. So I may as well show up on Saturday and get physically battered while I'm at it! Ha ha!


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## thedaras (25 Nov 2010)

All left wing ,,unions/Richard Boyd Barret.
There is a definite need for a moderate/centre party..


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## Deiseblue (25 Nov 2010)

thedaras said:


> All left wing ,,unions/Richard Boyd Barret.
> There is a definite need for a moderate/centre party..


 
Presumably a non marching , non reactionary party aimed solely at the middle classes - where are the PD's when you need them ?


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## Leper (25 Nov 2010)

Marching is a waste of time and its a tired idea. Marches are usually infiltrated by various rent-a-crowds anticipating just more recognition of their plight e.g. ban-the-bomb, keep-the-soccer-crowd out of Croke Park, bring-back-the-free-plastic-bag etc. Furthermore, nobody pays any heed to marches.

We need an Irish protest for an Irish situation. Can anybody think of an original and effective form of protest?


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## villa 1 (25 Nov 2010)

stop drinking alcohol!!


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## thedaras (25 Nov 2010)

Deiseblue said:


> Presumably a non marching , non reactionary party aimed solely at the middle classes - where are the PD's when you need them ?


Sounds very civilised to me.
There are other ways than shouting your head off,in an angry confrontational manner ..


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## Deiseblue (25 Nov 2010)

thedaras said:


> Sounds very civilised to me.
> There are other ways than shouting your head off,in an angry confrontational manner ..



And you are going to start this political part when ?

Or simply wait at home and hope somebody else does it ?


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## Complainer (25 Nov 2010)

thedaras said:


> shouting your head off,in an angry confrontational manner ..


Speaking of which, where is Michael McDowell these days?


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## thedaras (25 Nov 2010)

Deiseblue said:


> And you are going to start this political part when ?
> 
> Or simply wait at home and hope somebody else does it ?




You make it sound like being middle class is offence.

However,like we all found out, talking reasonably and challenging views in a coherent non threatening manner and tackling issues using the ballot box have always been my way of dealing with things.

Not going on a march led by unions who have done more than their own fair share of messing up the economy,Or would that more likely make me part of the problem by supporting them..Does that make me middle class?

I would love to hear what your definition is of middle class is?


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## Deiseblue (25 Nov 2010)

thedaras said:


> You make it sound like being middle class is offence.
> 
> However,like we all found out, talking reasonably and challenging views in a coherent non threatening manner and tackling issues using the ballot box have always been my way of dealing with things.
> 
> ...



Delightful sidestep.

When are you starting this moderate party or are you simply waiting for someone else to do so ?

When I suggested that what you wanted was a non marching , non reactionary party for the middle class you commented that that was a delightful idea - presumably as such you have no problem in putting yourself firmly in that category ?


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## thedaras (25 Nov 2010)

Never mentioned the word delightful..if you are going to quote me ..get it right....Nice red herring ..again...


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## Deiseblue (25 Nov 2010)

thedaras said:


> Never mentioned the word delightful..if you are going to quote me ..get it right....Nice red herring ..again...


 
Quite right . I stand corrected .

You said it sounded " very civilised " to you - not really a hell of a difference.

So when are you starting this moderate party or are you simply waiting for somebody else to do so ?

A simple question I would have thought ?


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## thedaras (25 Nov 2010)

Civilised;  marked by refinement in taste and manners.So a non confrontational march sounds civilised to me,but you infer you have an issue with this.

Delightful;  very pleasing, beautiful, charming.Eh no, this does not define a non confrontational march,in my world anyway..

I don't catch red herrings,was never into fishing..
Perhaps you will find time to give me your definition of middle class?
You are the one who said this type of party would be aimed solely at the middle classes,infering that working class people would not want this..now that is just strange..and very unfair to the working classes.


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## Deiseblue (25 Nov 2010)

thedaras said:


> Civilised; marked by refinement in taste and manners.So a non confrontational march sounds civilised to me,but you infer you have an issue with this.
> 
> Delightful; very pleasing, beautiful, charming.Eh no, this does not define a non confrontational march,in my world anyway..
> 
> ...


 
Middle class , let's see - nice semi in nice recession untouched area , no worries about negative equity , income well over average industrial wage, kid or kids in college , regular holidays in Europe -France perhaps ?

Now that I've put my crystal ball away when are you starting this moderate party or are you waiting for somebody else to do so ?

4th time I've asked this question , no reply so far - any chance of an answer?


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## thedaras (25 Nov 2010)

You had to get a crystal ball to say how you define the middle classes??
Are you referring to me re the middle class description or do you mean the middle class as a whole?
Do you have an problem with the middle class?
For the 4th time..I don't do fishing...


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## z107 (25 Nov 2010)

> Now that I've put my crystal ball away when are you starting this moderate party or are you waiting for somebody else to do so ?
> 
> 4th time I've asked this question , no reply so far - any chance of an answer?


If you give me the money required to start up a new political entity, I'd be delighted.
PM me, and we can work out a bank transfer into my non-Irish bank account.


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## thedaras (25 Nov 2010)

I really think people should declare when they have a vested interest in a particular party/union etc..as it has become clear that some posters are only interested in defending a particular sector..this is made even clearer when you see ALL their posts are related to one subject and one only..clean hands and all that..

I have no affiliation to any party left right or centre.I was never and probably will never be a member of any party, I was in a union.. I left that union,reasons have been posted lots of times.I was in the Public sector..I left ,again reasons have been well documented..I have worked in the private sector also..


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## thedaras (25 Nov 2010)

For those who see the " middle class as their enemies ;
Shep was a dog that was earned by a class warrior. 
He was trained by this guy to attack people with money.
 Then one day the class warrior won money on a scratch card and the dog killed him..

I rest my case...


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## Maximus152 (26 Nov 2010)

Re: Shep was a dog that was earned by a class warrior. 
Thats one smart K9...Respect!


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## Bill Struth (26 Nov 2010)

thedaras said:


> For those who see the " middle class as their enemies ;
> Shep was a dog that was earned by a class warrior.
> He was trained by this guy to attack people with money.
> Then one day the class warrior won money on a scratch card and the dog killed him..
> ...


 





(That smiley could apply to every one of your posts in fairness...)


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## thedaras (26 Nov 2010)

Thats interesting ..you are "confused" by "every one of " my posts..

A rather underhanded way of attacking the person and not the post..


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## elefantfresh (26 Nov 2010)

Kinda gone off track a bit here lads - radio said this morning "tens of thousands" expected


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## lightswitch (26 Nov 2010)

Apparently Christy Moore will be there to provide a bit of entertainment


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## thedaras (26 Nov 2010)

David Begg said the march and rally would be a family-friendly event which would be peaceful, good humoured and very well stewarded.

And Gardai on alert for Dublin March;

http://news.ie.msn.com/article.aspx?cp-documentid=155360992


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## Mpsox (26 Nov 2010)

Complainer said:


> Speaking of which, where is Michael McDowell these days?


 
Down the Mahon tribunal last I heard


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## censuspro (26 Nov 2010)

thedaras said:


> All left wing ,,unions/Richard Boyd Barret.
> There is a definite need for a moderate/centre party..



Isn't that where FF position themselves?


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## thedaras (26 Nov 2010)

I probably should have added  more to the need for a moderate/centre party..that would be a need for real leadership,and integrity and moral authority..ff may like to position themselves at that place ,but this is not how they act in practice..


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## Conan (26 Nov 2010)

Surely Christy Moore is not going to be the entertainer for the march tomorrow. He will upstage the Jack and David comedy routine.


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## Deiseblue (26 Nov 2010)

Conan said:


> Surely Christy Moore is not going to be the entertainer for the march tomorrow. He will upstage the Jack and David comedy routine.



Ah now ! 

Given the expected huge crowd you need a couple of acts at least


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## thedaras (26 Nov 2010)

Given the half million leaflets sent out by the unions , and the amount of publicity the march has  been given , and the unions calling for a mass turnout ,  and the fact that its on a Saturday..
 and the fact that there has been plenty of notice , and its been promoted as a family friendly day out ,with music from guests such as Christy Moore and Francis Black , 
and the fact that so many are so upset at how the government has run the country , and the fact that the students could mobilise 40 thousand students ,and the fact that its all over facebook..and heavily promoted on the internet there has to be , I would say there should be at least 200 thousand people at it....watch out for " kettling"..


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## Deiseblue (26 Nov 2010)

thedaras said:


> Given the half million leaflets sent out by the unions , and the amount of publicity the march has  been given , and the unions calling for a mass turnout ,  and the fact that its on a Saturday..
> and the fact that there has been plenty of notice , and its been promoted as a family friendly day out ,with music from guests such as Christy Moore and Francis Black ,
> and the fact that so many are so upset at how the government has run the country , and the fact that the students could mobilise 40 thousand students ,and the fact that its all over facebook..and heavily promoted on the internet there has to be , I would say there should be at least 200 thousand people at it....watch out for " kettling"..





Has to be up there  with your old shep story !

I would be most surprised , but pleased , if numbers exceeded 80,000.


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## thedaras (26 Nov 2010)

Jack O Connor said There are more ways of influencing budgetary policy than waiting until whenever the Government sees fit to call it a day and go to the country. It may be too late by then.
Democracy is about more than just voting in elections once every five years. We must not stand idly by while the final nail is driven into the coffin. We can influence the outcome by turning out and joining the march for 'A Better, Fairer Way' in Dublin on Saturday, November 27. 

Congress general secretary David Begg said the march and rally would be a family-friendly event which would be peaceful, good humoured and very well stewarded

Unite trade union’s Jimmy Kelly said people struggle to take back responsibility for their future from a failed political leadership.

He called on all workers, community groups, families and people who believe in a positive future to take to the streets from noon.

The Irish Congress of Trade Unions (ICTU), the umberalla group of 55 unions representing about 600,000 members in the Republic of Ireland

And after all this you expect such a low turnout??


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## Leper (26 Nov 2010)

To get such  huge crowds into the city centre at noon.  Is this a ploy by the Employers to boost sales? And are the unions receiving brown envelopes?


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## onekeano (26 Nov 2010)

Leper said:


> And are the unions receiving brown envelopes?



What a terrible thing to suggest  the bearded brethern..... on the take? Never


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## Deiseblue (26 Nov 2010)

I hope for a large crowd , hopefully around 80,000 - anything more would be a bonus.

Naturally if there were a number of protests nationally I would expect a huge turnout.


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## Deiseblue (26 Nov 2010)

onekeano said:


> What a terrible thing to suggest  the bearded brethern..... on the take? Never



I wouldn't mention that unsupported assertion when you're on the march tomorrow if I were you 

Good to see people with varying views prepared to turn up - fair play to you .


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## thedaras (26 Nov 2010)

Deiseblue said:


> I hope for a large crowd , hopefully around 80,000 - anything more would be a bonus.
> 
> Naturally if there were a number of protests nationally I would expect a huge turnout.



Massive was the word used by the union..
In fairness the unions of which there are how many members /supporters/families etc? and so many want to change the way things are done and the lets not forget the buses being organised from various parts of the country ,I wouldn't be as pesimistic as 80 thousand,sure you would probably get that amount at a Christy Moore concert in Croke park..


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## Deiseblue (26 Nov 2010)

thedaras said:


> Massive was the word used by the union..
> In fairness the unions of which there are how many members /supporters/families etc? and so many want to change the way things are done and the lets not forget the buses being organised from various parts of the country ,I wouldn't be as pesimistic as 80 thousand,sure you would probably get that amount at a Christy Moore concert in Croke park..



No , 80,000 is a figure I'd be happy with.

Anyway off to bed now to rest for the march tomorrow.

8O,000 in Croker for a Christy Moore concert !!!- I think I'm getting a vague idea    of how you predict figures


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## thedaras (26 Nov 2010)

Deiseblue said:


> No , 80,000 is a figure I'd be happy with.
> 
> Anyway off to bed now to rest for the march tomorrow.
> 
> 8O,000 in Croker for a Christy Moore concert !!!- I think I'm getting a vague idea    of how you predict figures



Wrong again, though you obviously choose to ignore my post on how I arrived at the figure!!

Eh actually Croke park fits over 80.000 people..


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## Yorrick (27 Nov 2010)

Even marching changed anything we would have all our problems solved. The unions are denying any responsibility for the mess we are in. So they wheel in the token working class hero Christy Moore  to entertain us ( Brush Shields wasnt available) aand the union leaders go back to their six fiigure salaries


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## thedaras (27 Nov 2010)

The weather is no surprise as this has been forecast..so I would expect the numbers at the march to be HUGE,well based on the amount of people who are saying its for the sake of the country...


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## dockingtrade (27 Nov 2010)

Yorrick said:


> the union leaders go back to their six fiigure salaries


 
I dont know how many times ive made this point in the last few years. Union leaders talking and believing in the social equality, the rise of the left and the right wing agenda consiracy! Theyll be out today roaring their ideology and telliing the working classes to rise up , on their right wing bourgoise capitalist incomes. I ve no issue with people making as much money as they can, fair play etc but dont preach border line communism on 6 figure salaries. They form part of the wealthy classes


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## shanegl (27 Nov 2010)

Heard there were plenty of boos for Jack O'Connor. There's hope for this country yet.


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## micmclo (27 Nov 2010)

Sky News say 50,000
David Begg said 100,000

Both claim these are offical garda figures


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## thedaras (27 Nov 2010)

Rte said 10 thousand at around half eleven then it was 20 thousand then 25 thousand, I would think this will be 0ne million by mid afternoon,this is rte after all..

Still if it was 100 thousand that was an excellent turn out in fairness..

I'm sure Deiseblue will give a fair and accurate figure in the hours to come..oh wait...


Sky news at 2.32 says the following (10.000)?
;http://news.sky.com/skynews/Home/Wo...usterity-Budget/Article/201011415834890?f=rss

Oh wait again from the RTE website..Speakers at the march had estimated that the crowd was between 100,000 and 150,000...


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## Ancutza (27 Nov 2010)

At least Deiseblue has had the courage to stand up and be counted rather than lurk behind the net curtains in suburbia, hunched-over and wringing their hands Gollum-like and counting their 'blessings', 'No recession here, slurp, slurp, gargle'. 'We hates them, the filthy Begg-inz,  slurp, slurp, gargle'.  

I've no time for the self-serving unions either but what it came down to today was an opportunity to get out in front of the the government, the media and the world indifferent of your affiliations and be counted.

If you don't stand up for something then you'll fall for anything.  Hat off to you Deiseblue, you filthy little civil servant, I admire your backbone.


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## thedaras (27 Nov 2010)

Ancutza said:


> > At least Deiseblue has had the courage to stand up and be counted rather than lurk behind the net curtains in suburbia, hunched-over and wringing their hands Gollum-like and counting their 'blessings', 'No recession here, slurp, slurp, gargle'. 'We hates them, the filthy Begg-inz,  slurp, slurp, gargle'.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


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## Leper (28 Nov 2010)

That march yesterday was about as inspiring as the Concerned-Parents-of-Seven turning up at last Mass on Christmas Day with toys for the underpriviliged so that they can enjoy the surprise and joys of Santa Claus. Like I said before these marches through city centres are tired and achieve nothing other than attract people into the city centre, no doubt an unexpected fillip for traders in the lead up to Christmas. The Gardaí were probably rubbing their hands also with some needed overtime all to be funded by the taxpayer, of course.

If the entire country took a leaf out of the CPSU book in the Passport Office protests earlier this year we would be better served.  We need something original and eye-catching.  Instead we had some bellowing Trades Union leaders distancing themselves from the atrocious fiascos that have taken place which will drive the normal people of Ireland + their children and probably grandchildren into penury.


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## Deiseblue (28 Nov 2010)

Ancutza said:


> At least Deiseblue has had the courage to stand up and be counted rather than lurk behind the net curtains in suburbia, hunched-over and wringing their hands Gollum-like and counting their 'blessings', 'No recession here, slurp, slurp, gargle'. 'We hates them, the filthy Begg-inz, slurp, slurp, gargle'.
> 
> I've no time for the self-serving unions either but what it came down to today was an opportunity to get out in front of the the government, the media and the world indifferent of your affiliations and be counted.
> 
> If you don't stand up for something then you'll fall for anything. Hat off to you Deiseblue, you filthy little civil servant, I admire your backbone.


 

I can only wallow in your praise

Just to correct one thing - although your description of me as being filthy is undoubtedly correct - my entire working life has been spent in the Private Sector.

Massive crowd on the march - hard to quantify but I'll have a shot - 147,824.  - on a serious note something in excess of 100,000 I would have thought .


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## Ancutza (28 Nov 2010)

> To say that anyone who is not with the union is against what is  happening in the country is unfair ,unjust,uncalled for and untrue.



There was nothing to stop you painting up a little placard saying something like "Non-union, disaffected middleclass homeowner.  Government Out!" and jumping up and down in front of a few TV cameras though was there?



> How come only around 1% of Ireland's population turned up?



Laziness and cowardice masquerading as self righteous indignation?



> _I would hazard a guess that a march not led by vested interests,would have had[/I] a much larger turn out._



Organise one you 'approve' of yourself and I'm there.



> _NOT ONE of them marched today.._



Laziness and cowardice masquerading as self righteous indignation?



> my entire working life has been spent in the Private Sector.



Yesterday it didn't matter.  You were/are a disenfranchised citizen of Ireland with the balls to stand up for your convictions.  RESPECT!



> Massive crowd on the march - hard to quantify but I'll have a shot - 147,824


. 

You're also an optimist which will help you through the tough times ahead.  God speed! If you ever need a bowl of soup my door is open.


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## Leper (28 Nov 2010)

I'm getting blue in the face from saying that marches are useless.  The march yesterday gave the union leaders a licence to forget what they had contributed to. No doubt they all retired to the Gresham afterwards for more back-slapping.

I wonder what results would have occurred had each of yesterday's marchers been asked "What do you want to see from today's protest?"

The march deflected peooples' views from the true situation in dear ol' Ireland.  Are we any nearer from:-

(a) Abolishing the Senate

(b) Reducing the number of TDs 

(c) Jailing dishonest bankers and dishonest politicians

Thanks to the march the answer to each is "No" - There was more talk last night about the X-Factor than of the protest.


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## Complainer (28 Nov 2010)

Leper said:


> I wonder what results would have occurred had each of yesterday's marchers been asked "What do you want to see from today's protest?"


They were asked - Read [broken link removed] and listen to the audio-clip at [broken link removed]

It is interesting to see people coming from non-union backgrounds to the march. The overwhelming view seemed to be people who just want to voice their anger at the Government


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## onekeano (28 Nov 2010)

Complainer said:


> They were asked - Read [broken link removed] and listen to the audio-clip at [broken link removed]
> 
> It is interesting to see people coming from non-union backgrounds to the march. The overwhelming view seemed to be people who just want to voice their anger at the Government



I agree with this and was on the march yesterday - Jack O'Connor got a fair old bollicking with lots of people shouting "get off the stage" / whistling while he was ranting on (myself included). Overall I thought it was worthwhile... what I don't understand is that we have 450,000 unemployed, probably 100,000 students, probably half a million pensioners, etc etc etc and only 50,000 people bother their ass to turn up - the others should be ashamed of themselves.

Roy


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## thedaras (28 Nov 2010)

450,000 unemployed,  100,000 students,  half a million pensioners, and how many union members, ,where were the Families/friends,comrades,union members, bus loads from various parts of the country, half a million leaflets sent out by the unions,massive media coverage and all over the internet,and yet and yet and only 50,000 people bother to turn up..

People are not stupid, the people have spoken ,they didn't go on the march!! What part of we are not going to march with you do the unions not understand? 
The message has been sent loud and clear to them yesterday.Will they listen ,will they act on it,or will they be like the government and refuse to hear what people are telling them

 Jack o Conner booed,obviously some of the members have seen the light...

Very interesting message being sent out to the unions..

My faith in the nation has been restored..Fair play to those who have the courage of their convictions ,who didn't go and march under a union banner and even though they have so many hardships and want to make the government listen ,they stuck by what they believe to be right in the face of people accusing them of being ,horror of horrors "middleclass"!! In the face of the minority saying they are lazy and behind their net curtains "slurping wine..the people have spoken ...LISTEN..


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## onekeano (28 Nov 2010)

Like me, there were loads of non-unionised people there yesterday. Most people reflected the key point that this governement has no mandate to sign up for a deal that will affect us for generations to come. When people take an apathetic stance if gives the idiots who govern us at the moment a feeling that they can do whatever they like and cling to power and do even more damge while they do so. 

If the numbers had been much greater it would have sent a message across Europe... so when people are sitting beside their fire phoning the Whineline and complaining about the dole being cut, their pensions being shaved and services being reduced maybe they should think back to November 27th when they had their chance to send a message to this government and the ECB / EFSF / IMF.

Over 100,000 people march (including myself) when George Bush came to town at the start of Iraq war, and only 50,000 turn out for a war which will have a far greater impact on us, our kids and grandkids......... we get what we deserve. ......

Roy


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## Complainer (28 Nov 2010)

thedaras said:


> 450,000 unemployed,  100,000 students,  half a million pensioners, and how many union members, ,where were the Families/friends,comrades,union members, bus loads from various parts of the country, half a million leaflets sent out by the unions,massive media coverage and all over the internet,and yet and yet and only 50,000 people bother to turn up..
> 
> People are not stupid, the people have spoken ,they didn't go on the march!! What part of we are not going to march with you do the unions not understand?


Comical Ali would be so proud. 50,000-100,000 got up of their asses and travelled from all around the country on the coldest day, and thedaras deems that the people that sat on their couches and did nothing 'have spoken'. It's really quite funny.


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## thedaras (28 Nov 2010)

onekeano said:


> > Like me, there were loads of non-unionised people there yesterday. Most people reflected the key point that this governement has no mandate to sign up for a deal that will affect us for generations to come. When people take an apathetic stance if gives the idiots who govern us at the moment a feeling that they can do whatever they like and cling to power and do even more damge while they do so.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


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## lightswitch (28 Nov 2010)

onekeano said:


> Like me, there were loads of non-unionised people there yesterday. Most people reflected the key point that this governement has no mandate to sign up for a deal that will affect us for generations to come. When people take an apathetic stance if gives the idiots who govern us at the moment a feeling that they can do whatever they like and cling to power and do even more damge while they do so.
> 
> If the numbers had been much greater it would have sent a message across Europe... so when people are sitting beside their fire phoning the Whineline and complaining about the dole being cut, their pensions being shaved and services being reduced maybe they should think back to November 27th when they had their chance to send a message to this government and the ECB / EFSF / IMF.
> 
> ...


 
I was there yesterday and although there were a lot of Union Banners there were a huge amount of people who were independently marching. To those of you who referred to middle class, they looked middle class to me. One of the loudest responses was to the withdrawal of special needs teachers, so a lot of parents worried about their children’s futures. 

I am very happy to have gone in. I do agree that marches don't in themselves achieve much but if you are going to moan and complain about what is currently happening then you have to get off your ass and do something about it.

As usual and as you would expect the media will always give the lower number. I would say the turnout was in excess of 100k easily. Weather did prevent a lot of people from travelling from Country areas as bus and some trains were cancelled. 


I did notice on some of the news reports that the cameras focused on areas with empty street space and wondered where they were focusing on, little space anywhere I was standing. There would have been a lot more global media reporting if there had been more disruption, peaceful marches simply don’t get the attention of the masses on TV.

One of our EU Representatives, Joe Higgins was not allowed for whatever reason to speak on the main platform but had a smaller one at the end of O' Connell Street. A good number of people leaving O’Connell Street remained to hear the speeches there at the end of the main event.

There is another protest on Budget Day December 7th outside the Dail, I would imagine from Lunchtime onwards. I will be taking annual leave to attend this one.

By the way I was there as a protest to the Banking fiasco we are being rail roaded into bailing out......................I'm simply not prepared to pay taxes for the rest of my lifetime to pay for gamblers losses. Clearly they didn't have "Terms and Conditions apply" on the end of their contracts and "The value of Shares can go up or DOWN" like the rest of us do.


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## thedaras (28 Nov 2010)

Deiseblue;





> Just to correct one thing - although your description of me as being filthy is undoubtedly correct - my entire working life has been spent in the Private Sector.



Thats very interesting, so you are not exactly qualified to speak about how the PS works then..
I have had experience of both the PS and the private sector,so I would have thought that someone who has experienced at first hand both of those, is more qualified to speak about how things really are..rather than someone who has absolutely no idea of what it is like to work in the PS..


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## onekeano (28 Nov 2010)

thedaras said:


> onekeano said:
> 
> 
> > _You are failing to recognise the fact that people don't/didn't and wont march under a union banner that has many a dark cloud over it.They were sending a message!
> ...


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## Deiseblue (28 Nov 2010)

I must agree with Lightswitch.

There was at least 100,000 present representative of all sectors of society.

I'm delighted that so many regular AAM posters attended , good to see people getting out and protesting .


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## bullbars (28 Nov 2010)

thedaras said:


> Deiseblue;
> 
> Thats very interesting, so you are not exactly qualified to speak about how the PS works then.


 
I have not been to the arctic circle so I am not exactly qualified to speak about how cold it is there.
You have never been Taoiseach so you are not exactly qualified to speak about the decisions made by Brian Cowan.

Obviously the statements above are untrue but I can apply your logic to suit.
You are bringing pedanticalness to a new level on this thread.

Anyone who did attend yesterday, union backed or not, is at least is getting out there and letting the powers that be know that the people will not just roll over this time. I would not call for Greek style riots, but continuous lobbying and protest can work.

Edit: Agree with Ancutza; protests at the ballot box will be too late.


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## thedaras (28 Nov 2010)

How many do you consider " so many"..?
All sectors of society you say.., well there you go posters,according to Deiseblue,all sections of society were present..that will put a stop to those who are saying the so called "middle class sat behind their net curtains ,drinking and wringing their hands..cheers..


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## ajapale (28 Nov 2010)

Thread closed pending consideration by mods/admins.


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