# Potential messy wills dispute



## flybynight (10 Sep 2008)

Another potential messy wills dispute…..I see there are a few more out there.

My grandmother passed away approx. 6 months ago. Herself and my father were joint owners of the family farm – all my father’s siblings had left home at an early age and apart from one brother who came most Saturdays and helped out a bit, they never had any input into the farm. My grandmother left everything to my father in her will.

However, there had been some ill-will building up between the family in the run-up to my grandmother’s death due to the refusal of some of the other siblings to help pay nursing home fees. We have learned in the past week from the solicitor who administered my grandmother’s will, that one of my uncles had recently visited the solicitor and had requested a copy of the will along with details of all the land portfolios. He was only given the land portfolio numbers. Another brother had requested a copy of the will from my father a few days previously, as he claimed he had a life insurance policy on her life and needed a copy of the will for this.

We are worried that my father’s brothers are conspiring in some way to challenge the will, or find some loophole somewhere. One of them has strong ties to the property/investment industry. I don’t believe my father has even seen a copy of the will, and unfortunately is not proactive in doing anything about this. As far as we can make out, the solicitor is a bundling fool who knows little if anything about land law.

Further, it is likely (although again we are not fully sure) that some of the land inherited does not have paperwork of any sorts – the brothers are probably aware of this also.

Is there anyway that we can move to make sure all is above board and my father’s future is safeguarded? I have read a bit about title insurance, but not sure if this is applicable here?

All advice welcome……….


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## mf1 (10 Sep 2008)

"As far as we can make out, the solicitor is a bundling fool who knows little if anything about land law."

Terrific. The (non) client who knows more than the solicitor and decides how best her father should deal with his own life. 

If your own father cares not a jot and if you are not a beneficiary, butt out. If the will is going to be challenged, it will be challenged.  

Oh and its "bungling"  not "bundling"

mf


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## flybynight (10 Sep 2008)

mf1 said:


> "As far as we can make out, the solicitor is a bundling fool who knows little if anything about land law."
> 
> Terrific. The (non) client who knows more than the solicitor and decides how best her father should deal with his own life.
> 
> ...


 
Thanks for your help with the grammar, never was my strong point.

Pity you can't help with my query.


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## Vanilla (10 Sep 2008)

mf1 said:


> "As far as we can make out, the solicitor is a bundling fool who knows little if anything about land law."
> 
> Terrific. The (non) client who knows more than the solicitor and decides how best her father should deal with his own life.
> 
> ...


 
In other words, your casually insulting generalisations have alienated at least two of the posters most likely to help.


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## flybynight (10 Sep 2008)

Vanilla said:


> In other words, your casually insulting generalisations have alienated at least two of the posters most likely to help.


 
Ah, sorry, think I get it now. 2 of the posters most likely to help would be of a certain profession as to who I "casually insulted"! Great.

To those concerned, no offence was intended. If offence was taken, I apologise. As in all professions, there are people who are better, or worse, at their job than others. 

mf, as you can appreciate, family matters are extremely sensitive. My father is from the "head in the sand and it will go away" era. It is difficult for me to not get involved when my direct family is involved.


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## theengineer (10 Sep 2008)

once the will goes to probate , it will become a public document, that is all i know i am afraid,


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## murphaph (10 Sep 2008)

OP, you're not allowed to make any negative comments about

1) Priests
2) Doctors
3) Guards
4) Solicitors

Seriously, I have dealt with 'less than spectacular' solicitors (these are the words of another solicitor who has since taken the file, and he woudln't be one to make disparaging comments about anyone, let alone members of his own profession). There are bungling idiots in EVERY profession, including the law.

Perhaps however, seeing as this matter appears to be very important to you, you should seek legal advice from a reputable solicitor, preferably someone who has been recommended to you with having specialist expertise in such matters. I understand you are looking for a general 'heads up' here and that's great, but think about getting advice from someone professionally. 

I know what it's like when you can see a family member ignoring a problem they really should be tackling and it's easy for an outsider to say "butt out" or whatever but in practice that's a different story.


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## Vanilla (10 Sep 2008)

Clearly the OP is allowed to make negative comment about anybody or anything s/he likes, but in doing so posters who might otherwise be disposed to help may be put off. That is the nature of things I'm afraid.

In any case I agree with murphaph that in your father's case it would seem he has a good deal at stake. Furthermore you at least, possibly your father, has no faith in the family solicitor. So instruct a new solicitor, word of mouth recommendation is usually good.


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## legalhawk (10 Sep 2008)

Your father is under no obligation to stay with the "Bungling Solicitor"! He can take the will and go to another solicitor, you don't mention who the executor is, it is up to them to make the decisions on who sees a copy of the will which isn't a document that can be simply copied to the world at large to have a look! the executor can take the administration of the estate elsewhere, as mf1 said if it's going to be challanged it's going to be challanged and there may be very little you can do to stop it! to be honest it's too complicated an area to advise in a forum like this, you need to engage in a solicitor, that you obviously consider to be "competent" and take their advice.


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## AriesWoman (10 Sep 2008)

I think your father should go and see another solicitor maybe go to someone who specialises in inheritance and wills as they may have come accross this type of situation before.

I had a similar situation with one of my parents where they had a row with a sister over inheritance. My aunt wouldn't accept that my parent had been left a share of property in my grans will. Thankfully she didn't challenge the will (didn't have any grounds) but it got very nasty for a while so I know all about family rows.

I think you do need to try and get your dad to deal withe it as its not going to go away on its own and the sooner he deals with it the sooner it will be cleared up. Don't worry about your uncle having strong ties to the property/investment industry - if they're going to challenge the will they will challenge it anyway.


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## dazza21ie (10 Sep 2008)

> I think your father should go and see another solicitor maybe go to someone who specialises in inheritance and wills as they may have come accross this type of situation before.


 
Almost every general practice around the country *"specialises in inheritance and wills".* The OP or her father would not be turned away from any office she visit. 

OP's father can sort things out by taking out a Grant of Probate and administering the estate (although not said who the executor is). There is a possiblity that the will could be challenged or a S.117 application could be made but as said above if its going to be challeneged it will be challenged. 

OP refferred to Portfolio numbers which i think might actually be Folio numbers suggesting that the land is Land Registry title. A quick mapping search would clarify this.


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## Madangan (11 Sep 2008)

flybynight said:


> Ah, sorry, think I get it now. 2 of the posters most likely to help would be of a certain profession as to who I "casually insulted"! Great.


 
Ummm make that three


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## aircobra19 (11 Sep 2008)

flybynight said:


> ... As far as we can make out, the solicitor is a bundling fool who knows little if anything about land law.....


 
The OP is talking about a specific solicitor that they know and obviously something has occured to give rise to their opinion of the solicitor. How is that a generalisation about the entire profession? How can you assume the OP is wrong, and the solicitor is right when you don't know who hes talking about? 

Regardless of what profession you are dealing with its always worth getting a 2nd even a third opinion. Be that a doctor, a consultant, or someone giving you directions.


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## Madangan (12 Sep 2008)

aircobra19 said:


> The OP is talking about a specific solicitor that they know and obviously something has occured to give rise to their opinion of the solicitor. How is that a generalisation about the entire profession? How can you assume the OP is wrong, and the solicitor is right when you don't know who hes talking about?


 
The op has given not one example of what the solicitor has done.. Maybe the solicitor in question is a bungling fool or maybe the OP simply did not understand the process or did not like what he heard. If OP did give examples as opposed to casually insulting the solicitor maybe the solicitors on AAM would, as we usually do on AAM, give assistance.  

I have no difficulty criticising my fellow solicitors however it seems to be a national pasttime to criticize solicitors barristers etc... without ever bothering to check  facts etc..

So I now  check in on forums related to my own experience i.e ASK ABOUT LAW and  MORTGAGING etc... if a poster seems to have a genuine query or seems to have got poor advice or service from a solicitor I will give any help I can but quite frankly I cannot be bothered to give assistance to those posters who, in my opinion,rightly or  wrongly, casually insult lawyers and make assumptions that the solicitor is overcharging /fleecing them for bog standard work blah blah blah...

Thats my policy and since I adopted it I no longer feel my blood pressure rising when I read certain posts  so there ya are...works for me


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## aircobra19 (12 Sep 2008)

You didn't answer the question. How did is any of that a generalisation, or how can you assume the OP is wrong in their opinion when (as you conceed) you don't have any examples to base an opinion on. What facts have people bothered to check here?

If someone said they had experience of a shoddy builder, I wouldn't assume that means all builders are cowboys and don't know what they are doing. I would ask what exactly they had done. Ditto a doctor or a programmer or whom ever.


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## 4th estate (16 Sep 2008)

The OP stated that the property was in joint names. If so, the property would  automatically pass to the son of the grandmother (the OP's Dad if I am reading correctly) and the will has no effect on this.

Any more details to complicate my assumption?


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## Bronte (17 Sep 2008)

OP you need to do some serious apologising unless you can back up your claim that the solicitor is incompetant.  You must have expected legal advice when you came on here and the people to give you that are solicitors so if you start off by insulting without showing cause you won't get anywhere.  There is excellent advice on AAM from all the solicitors that so far have contributed.  By the way a will is a public document and the brothers while they may not have received a copy from the solicitor will in time be able to get it from the probate office.  I would have said the solicitor was very clever not giving them a copy now so as to keep things calm.  As an aside, personally I think Estate agents take the most flack on AAM.


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## aircobra19 (17 Sep 2008)

Will we see some apologising for the sweeping generalisations about builders, taxi drivers, programmers, public workers on AAM aswell?  

Not that the OP here made a generalisation anyway.


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