# How to complain about a SIPTU official.



## Hatchetman (30 Aug 2010)

I have a beef with a union official who didn't do his job for me or at least didn't force my employer to carry out a clear rights commisioners hearing. I have asked that union official via email to provide me with a written explanation of his account of the story and basically he has ignored me completely. I have since refered the matter to the regional secretary and sure enough he's done exactly the same. It makes me wonder why on earth am I paying week in week out for the last 20 odd years. Where would I turn to in order to complain about the lack of response from them.


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## Complainer (30 Aug 2010)

You could escalate to [broken link removed], or you could pass it over to some of the [broken link removed]. Have you tried phoning or (better still), getting face-to-face with them? It is a lot harder to ignore a person standing in front of you.


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## Padraigb (30 Aug 2010)

Adding to, rather than deviating from, Complainer's suggestion: I generally find, when I want a complaint to be taken seriously, that it is most effective to set it out carefully and clearly in a formal letter.


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## Mpsox (31 Aug 2010)

It's not the first instance of this I've heard, albeit with different unions. As other posters suggest, you need to keep escalating. However you should also step back and try and take and objective look at your own situation. An union cannot "force" an employer to do something, and my own experience of sitting on the other side of the union/management fence is that most union reps will not push a case unless they  think it is legitimate. Perhaps what you need is a better explanation as to why they did not push the issue


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## j26 (31 Aug 2010)

Your Union Rules may set out a complaints procedure. I've seen it happen once in our union. Check out the SIPTU website for a copy of the Rules.


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## Deas (31 Aug 2010)

What was your issue?  It's hard to give advice on this without getting the facts.  Maybe there was nothing he could do or the case would have clearly lost.


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## micmclo (31 Aug 2010)

There is probably a set procedure here so follow that.

And write a letter, you will be taken more seriously then emailing


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## Deiseblue (1 Sep 2010)

So your employers prevaricated for 3 years after you with the assistance of your Union won a Rights commissioner's  decision that you be reinstated and you by your own admission let matters drift.

Of course you are right to pursue a complaint against SIPTU in light of the lack of communication but I would suggest that the majority of the blame for your most unfortunate situation be placed firmly where it belongs - firmly at the door of the Management of your Company who for a period of in excess of 3 years ignored a rights commissioner's decision negotiated with the help of your Union.


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## Deas (1 Sep 2010)

Hatchetman, I would simply leave the union in that case.  It cannot be a condition of employment that you are a member as this would be unconstitutional.  Why waste your money and time.  You have got what you wanted without them.  Let sleeping dogs lie and get one with your job and life.


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## Complainer (1 Sep 2010)

Deas said:


> Hatchetman, I would simply leave the union in that case.  It cannot be a condition of employment that you are a member as this would be unconstitutional.


Maybe - or maybe not. From http://www.citizensinformation.ie/c...trial-relations-and-trade-unions/trade_unions


> It can be made a condition of employment that you must join a particular union upon accepting a job offer and remain in that union while you remain an employee in that job. There is a view that this may not be constitutional, but this has not been tested in the courts yet.


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## Optimistic (2 Sep 2010)

This is exactly the reason why I am not a member of SIPTU.Our company is with Siptu and my wife worked for them for a period of time, paid all her union dues etc. This was years before the recession. The company cut her hours to 1/3 giving 2 days notice.I could understand why the company cut her hours and personally felt it was a wise move, but not in the manner in which it was carried out. We called the siptu guy and he said there was nothing he could do. I have over the years heard of several instances where he does nothing for us only dances to the company's jig. After I saw this I purposed in my mind NEVER to give siptu any of my money as it is a waste of what my resources. Better to have a meal/part weekend away a year out of it. The only union I know of worth there money is The Independent Workers Union. A great bunch who care about people. But not siptu. No interest at all in the people who pay there wages. They seem to have forgotten this.


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## Hatchetman (2 Sep 2010)

BTW the current siptu incumbent has for the last 18 months been delating and stalling on any progress with regard to the last national pay agreement. The company says it couldn't pay the increase in the current financial climate and has requested that it be reviewed about 6 or 7 times over an 18 month period with the siptu guy basically going along with that. The company did have to lay off a about 20 people for a few months at the beginning but in the last year business has increased 5 fold due to the closing of the continental plant and centralizing all manufacturing with us. New extension, loads of new machinery and lines etc and still crying the poor mouth. Despite all this never once has SIPTU mentioned that after such a period of inaction the case should be refered to the labour court who will appoint a third party to look at the books and decide what course of action to to recommend. The company would NEVER let anyone look at the books in any case, yet the union guy spews out the same rubbish all the time i.e stall and delay. I know its the union members fault for not challanging the SIPTU clown but most people feel why should they put the head above the parapet for others who wont say anything either, except in the canteen or the smoking shelter where it doesn't count. Anyway in short SIPTU is totally bent as regards our company but unfortunately we'll never be able to prove it.


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## Deiseblue (2 Sep 2010)

Why presume that you have to deal with the SIPTU official in question , go over his head and approach H O and demand answers to your queries.

As a workforce you really are going to have to be a lot more proactive than you have been to date.

It really seems to be a case of a poor employer with a very compliant workforce with the whole situation exacerbated by a poor union official.


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## Mpsox (3 Sep 2010)

Hatchetman said:


> BTW the current siptu incumbent has for the last 18 months been delating and stalling on any progress with regard to the last national pay agreement. The company says it couldn't pay the increase in the current financial climate and has requested that it be reviewed about 6 or 7 times over an 18 month period with the siptu guy basically going along with that. The company did have to lay off a about 20 people for a few months at the beginning but in the last year business has increased 5 fold due to the closing of the continental plant and centralizing all manufacturing with us. New extension, loads of new machinery and lines etc and still crying the poor mouth. Despite all this never once has SIPTU mentioned that after such a period of inaction the case should be refered to the labour court who will appoint a third party to look at the books and decide what course of action to to recommend. The company would NEVER let anyone look at the books in any case, yet the union guy spews out the same rubbish all the time i.e stall and delay. I know its the union members fault for not challanging the SIPTU clown but most people feel why should they put the head above the parapet for others who wont say anything either, except in the canteen or the smoking shelter where it doesn't count. Anyway in short SIPTU is totally bent as regards our company but unfortunately we'll never be able to prove it.


 
I do think you need to differentiate between how busy your factory is and the financial state of the company as a whole. Just because you've taken on a whole pile of extra work does not mean the company is in a good financial state, the fact that they've being laying off staff and closing plants would indicate otherwise. In addition, such decisions generate short term costs (eg redundancy payments) that could affect it's financial position in the short to medium term

As for seeing the books, if it's a publically quoted company, then it should be easy enough to see how it's doing, if it's private then they will still have to file audited accounts and you might be able to view some element of those. I've used www.solocheck.ie in the past (no connection with them) when someone I knew had a dispute with their employer. The information was not up to date, but still gave me some good background data

Is your union rep a full time union employee or is he a staff member who also acts as union rep. If the latter, is there not some way you can elect another?


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## shipibo (7 Sep 2010)

HatchetMan,


         You need to send letter to SIPTU Regional co-ordinator (Patricia King in Dublin) outlining your grievance, and ask for face to face meeting.

         Have you received the backing of your local committee ??? , do they feel the co-ordinator (SIPTU Fulltime , I assume) is useless and needs to be replaced ???

         We had a situation where we got rid of our co-ordinator, but needed a meeting with Regional Co-Ordinator, and left her in no doubt the committee would resign en masse unless he was replaced .... its a difficult process, Unions don,t do customer satisfaction !!!


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## canicemcavoy (7 Sep 2010)

I was in a similar position once (my wife and coworkers were stiffed for redundancy) and rang Joe Higgins about it. He must have done something, because even thought I'd ended the previous conversation with expleitives and slamming down the phone, the union guy later rang me quite meekly to help us out. So maybe try to get Joe to put the fear of God into them.


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## shipibo (15 Sep 2010)

canicemcavoy said:


> I was in a similar position once (my wife and coworkers were stiffed for redundancy) and rang Joe Higgins about it. He must have done something, because even thought I'd ended the previous conversation with expleitives and slamming down the phone, the union guy later rang me quite meekly to help us out. So maybe try to get Joe to put the fear of God into them.




Did ya ring back and apologise ??


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## canicemcavoy (15 Sep 2010)

Apologise for what? Oh, for the expletives/slamming? That was as a result of the union guy being incredible obstreperous and bolshie (think 1960s Ealing-comedy union stereotype) and refusing to accept that staff being paid less redundancy than they were promised after accepting it based on a union vote organised by him had anything to do with him whatsoever. When he rang back, tail between his legs, we knew very well he'd been in the wrong.


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## shipibo (15 Sep 2010)

Ahh OK ..... I thought you were swearing at Joe !!!!


To my knowledge, he has no direct links to Unions (Unlike Labour) , but most of his party are involved ....


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## canicemcavoy (15 Sep 2010)

crumdub12 said:


> Ahh OK ..... I thought you were swearing at Joe !!!!


 
Ah no; my original could be misread. Rang union guy, had convo, swore at him, _then_ rang Joe....


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