# Completed Insolvency, now bank refusing to write off debt as there was a co-borrower.



## Nailligo (5 Apr 2019)

Long story short, co-borrower (father) died in 2011, approached bank in 2013 for assitance for a period of time to get myself back in my feet. This was refused and after a lot of time wasting, eventually arrived at a PIA in 2016 that involved the bank getting my house, they wouldn't accept any other setup.
As I was liable for all the debt after my Fathers death, the write off was due after I was released from the PIA. Finally got that cleared in Jan this year but checked my mortgage account and noticed it was still open and active (Interest being applied, TRS was being claimed too).
I contacted the bank and they have announced that as I have a (deceased) co-borrower on the account, it will never be closed so the write off won't happen. The PIU also refuse to speak directly to me, only to a PIP I no longer have dealings with.
This makes my PIA null and void if you ask me.
Oh and the kicker is I'm also waiting on a response in relation to the tracker redress appeal, I feel like I shouldn't have lost the house at all.
Any ideas anyone? I feel this is bigger than just a few errors of admin on their part. (AIB btw).


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## Brendan Burgess (5 Apr 2019)

Nailligo said:


> As I was liable for all the debt after my Fathers death



Why was your father's estate not responsible for the debt?

Is your father's estate not liable for the mortgage shortfall? 

But how does this affect you, other than the potential tracker redress issue? 

Let them chase your father's executor for it.

Brendan


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## Nailligo (5 Apr 2019)

Because the bank never took life assurance against him so when he died I became severally liable for the mortgage, there is no request being made on the estate for payment.

It affects me as I will never have my credit rating restored due to my name being attached to the account too and will have an open mortgage account gathering interest indefinitely? Not an ideal situation.


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## Nailligo (5 Apr 2019)

Also isn't the purpose of the PIA to go through the arrangement for an agreed write down at the end? Defeats the purpose of it if it isn't.


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## Brendan Burgess (5 Apr 2019)

Nailligo said:


> Because the bank never took life assurance against him so when he died I became severally liable for the mortgage, there is no request being made on the estate for payment.



This is a bit like your last thread. It doesn't make much sense. 

*Death of a co-borrower and enforced Insolvency, engaging doesn't work*

The bank does not take out life insurance on borrowers. 

You were always jointly and severally liable for the debt.  The bank can choose to go after you, or the estate, or both. 




Nailligo said:


> It affects me as I will never have my credit rating restored due to my name being attached to the account too and will have an open mortgage account gathering interest indefinitely? Not an ideal situation.



Assuming you adhered to the terms of the PIA, your liability for the shortfall was wiped out. 

There should not be a mortgage account in your name. 

Have you checked your credit rating?  If the mortgage is still showing... 

1) Write to AIB explaining this. 
2) Ask your PIP to write to AIB to explain this. 
3) If you don't get a satisfactory response from AIB, make a complaint to the Ombudsman.
4) If you don't get a satisfactory response from your PIP, make a complaint to the Insolvency Service. 


Brendan


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## Nailligo (5 Apr 2019)

Thanks for your reply,

They chose to go after me, not the estate. 
The bank insists on a person getting life assurance no? How else do you get a mortgage? I had to take it out.

There is a mortgage account active and gathering interest in mine and my fathers name. I can send on details privately if you want to check.

I have my credit bureau statement and yes the mortgage account is still showing on it with no date of completion set.

AIB refuse to talk to me. Considering lodging complaint but if I don't have a response from them after the 40 days etc where do I stand?

PIP is writing to the bank on my behalf despite me no longer having dealings with him but they're not being clear on things. I just thought there might have been some thoughts on things.

I may not be making much sense but this situation isn't making much sense to me. I have done all I've been asked to do but the goalposts keep changing.


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## RedOnion (5 Apr 2019)

Nailligo said:


> The bank insists on a person getting life assurance no? How else do you get a mortgage? I had to take it out.





Nailligo said:


> Because the bank never took life assurance against him



Did your father have a life assurance / mortgage protection policy?


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## Nailligo (5 Apr 2019)

RedOnion said:


> Did your father have a life assurance / mortgage protection policy?


No.
The bank never asked for him to do any of that.


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## Brendan Burgess (5 Apr 2019)

Nailligo said:


> PIP is writing to the bank on my behalf despite me no longer having dealings with him but they're not being clear on things. I just thought there might have been some thoughts on things.



That is the right way to go.

There is no need for you to write to the bank if the PIP does it. 

If they don't respond to the PIP or if the PIP does not respond to you, then by all means complain. 

Brendan


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## Jim Stafford (11 Apr 2019)

The best step to take is to contact the Central Credit Register, send them a copy of the PIP letter to creditors declaring that the PIA was concluded, and they will take the necessary steps to show the debt was written off.

Jim Stafford


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## Nailligo (11 Apr 2019)

Jim Stafford said:


> The best step to take is to contact the Central Credit Register, send them a copy of the PIP letter to creditors declaring that the PIA was concluded, and they will take the necessary steps to show the debt was written off.
> 
> Jim Stafford



Thank you Jim, I'll do that. The only problem is the bank have announced that they will chase the estate now...which is the family, including me, so I'm being chased again essentially. The write off has been avoided for now. The account is still open.


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## Jim Stafford (12 Apr 2019)

The bank are correct to show that the debt is still due from the Estate.

The bank may only sue the Estate, not you personally.  As far as you are concerned the debt has been written off.

The bank will have to make  a decision as to whether they incur legal costs on suing an estate that simply may not have any money.  If your father died in 2001 the bank may be "out of time" to issue proceedings. Obviously in a public forum such as this you need to be careful what information you disclose.

Jim Stafford


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## Nailligo (12 Apr 2019)

Hi Jim,
He died in 2011.
I spoke to the ISI yesterday and they said there should have been a discussion about what happens with the estate before even going in to the arrangement, this never happened so I wasn't given the full story. The PIA handbook from the ISI doesn't even mention those sort of things.
I did all the research I could but expected to be given all the facts by the people who were advising me. That didn't happen.

Yes, there is an estate, nothing major but as it's my mother, who I have no intention of dragging in to this, I will have to take on whatever commitment is required. Had I known she'd be the fallguy now, there is no way I'd have put her in that situation, it also means that even though I've been through the process I actually didn't benefit.


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## Brendan Burgess (12 Apr 2019)

Hi 

The bank is correct to chase the estate which I presume means the Executor of the estate. 

Who was the executor? 

If the estate was worth €50k and the shortfall was €200k, then they can go after the estate for the €50k.

The executor should have satisfied the mortgage first but the beneficiaries are not liable for any of your father's debts. If his debts exceeded his assets, his beneficiaries should not have received anything.

Brendan


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## Nailligo (12 Apr 2019)

Hi Brendan,
The executor is a family solicitor
The mortgage wasn't in difficulty at the time of my father's death. It was a couple of years later that I approached the bank.
His debts didn't exceed assets at the time as the mortgage was manageable.


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## TLO (12 Apr 2019)

This is a sad story.  Nailligo and her father jointly borrowed the money to provide a house for Nailligo.  Nailligo's father died in 2011.  Nailligo completed an insolvency process and is now free of debt.  But her father's estate is potentially liable for the shortfall left owing to the bank after Nailligo's house was sold.  It sounds like Nailligo's father's estate needs legal advice on defending the forthcoming legal proceedings from the bank.

Was Nailligo properly advised by her PIP?  Why wasn't a "no-veto" PIA used?  Were the implications to the father's estate of Nailligo entering a PIA properly explained?

If Nailligo had just paid the bank €800 a month, as outlined in another thread, and not entered a PIA she would probably still be in her house.


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## Nailligo (12 Apr 2019)

TLO thank you, you have summarised my situation perfectly.
A no-veto PIA was never mentioned and I was never brought through the implications on the estate, had I known this was what was going to happen I'd have avoided this route like the plague.
It's come out of nowhere and I feel the estate (mother) will be unnecessarily drawn in to this situation due to lack of proper advice and information.


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