# Qualifying for Irish Non-Contributory Pension



## quasimodo (4 Dec 2008)

I would appreciate advice on the following case.  

1. Age 71  
2. Born in UK of parents who were born in Ireland. 
3. Holder of Irish passport for 20 years - has lived in Ireland in childhood and for short periods in adulthood.
4. Does not have Irish personal number
5. Presently resident in UK.
6. Receives partial UK pension and pension credits.
7. Wants to retire to Ireland permanently.

Question 1: Will he be entitled to apply for Irish Personal Public Service Number (a) if he applies while still in the UK or (b) if he moves to Ireland.

Question 2: Will he be entitled to Non Contributory Pension (minus whatever pension he is receiving from the UK)?

Question 3: Do recipients of the NCP qualify for housing benefits such as rent and council tax or is that expected to be paid out of the pension?

Question 4: If he moves to Ireland to establish residence he has to continue receiving pension credits form the UK until the Irish NCP starts.   Would this effect his qualificaiton as a resident of Ireland?  Or, would he have to foregoe his UK pension credits before he took up residence in Ireland.   

In both cases how long would it be before he learned if he had qualified in Ireland for NCP?

Is there a number where he can discuss this case?


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## Welfarite (4 Dec 2008)

Question 1: He can apply for a PPSN when he moves to Ireland.
Question 2: He can apply for the means-tested Non-Comtributory State Pension once he is residing here. As it is means-tested, capital. 2nd properties and other income, such as the UK pension, are assessed so it's impossible to say if he would qualify or how mcuh he would get, if he did.
Question 3: Rent suppplement is subject to a means test, so impossible to say.
Question 4: Not sure what you mean here. What are UK Pension Credits? Why would they affect his residency here?
Question 5: It can take a while for pension application to be processed as it will involve an investigator (of mean) calling to the house. Think about three months is the norm.

See www.welfare.ie for contact numbers and more info on pensions.


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## quasimodo (4 Dec 2008)

Thank you for your reply.  

UK Pensions Credits applies to anyone whose pension or other forms of income do not reach the minimum income levels set by the UK government which is about 120 pounds per week.   The pension credits "top up" the income to reach that level.  

The local council also pays a rental allowance or, if the recipient is a property owner, waives the council tax.

To qualify for pension credits a recipient has to be resident in the UK.  Pension credits are avilable only to residents in the UK.  They do allow short absences for holidays etc.  He does not know the exact rules but thinks the absences allowed are about 3-4 conintuous weeks.

If he moved to Ireland  to retire he would lose his UK income from pension credits - which he relies on.

So there would be a period when he was applying in Ireland but not sure if his application would succeed.   The time it would take for his application to be processed would be critical. 

If he took a vacation in Ireland to preserve his UK pension credits he is worried that this may effect Irish assessment of his intention to reside permanently in Ireland.

The question about rental allowances was not so much to discover the amount but to ask if there was any at all.   If he received the Irish non-contributory pension to an amount that topped up his other income to about 220 Euro a week, could he also apply for rental allowance in much the same way that he does in the UK, or is he expected to pay rent from the 220 Euro a week?


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## gipimann (4 Dec 2008)

Rent Supplement is, as Welfarite said, a means-tested payment.   It assists persons in the private rented sector (i.e. not renting from Local Authorities/Councils) with the cost of rent.

There are several qualifying criteria (all of which may change from time to time) for Rent Supplement -
- Income (all income is assessed)
- Suitable accommodation (not over-accommodated - e.g. 3-bed house for 1 person)
- Rent Paid (there's a maximum rent limit above which no supplement is payable)
- Habitual Residence Condition (intention to reside permanently in Ireland.  There are 5 criteria used to determine if HRC is passed)

There is no council tax in Ireland (for residents/tenants, there are rates for business) so that doesn't apply.


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## quasimodo (4 Dec 2008)

Thanks.  I gather from your comments that a rental allowance might be available for the 71 yr old man in this case, subject to a means test.

Assuming his application for non-contributory pension was successful and including his partial UK pension his income would be 220 euros a week.  He has no  property, investments or savings of note.

In such a case, and assuming he passed the criterea for permanent residence, would he be likely to qualify for rental allowance for a one-room apartment, for example, asuming he stayed within whatever guidlines are set by the Department?

I am asking because in reviewing some the questions and answers on this forum I am not sure if the rental allowance applies to single, retired people.  And I cannot find any reference to any level of income that would trigger it.


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## quasimodo (4 Dec 2008)

Just to add to my previous comment.  I have now read the 5 criteria for habitual residence in the site kindly linked above.   I read the criteria to mean that the fact that the claimant has been living in the UK (Common Travel Area) will be counted as habitual residence by the Irish government.

If I am correct, then it seems to be that if he satisfied the other 4 criteria, his application should proceed quite quickly.

It may also mean that he can continue to draw his pension credits from the UK, as a bridging arrangement, after moving to Ireland until the Irish non-contributory pensions begins.   However, I note that the rules for UK pension credits require residence in the UK and do not seem to allow for residence in Eire. 

I'd appreciate comments.

In the meantime I would still appreciate a reply to my question in my previous comment about the rental allowance.


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## gipimann (4 Dec 2008)

To apply for Rent Supplement, a person must be in receipt of some type of Social Welfare income or pension (UK pension would count), so would be one of the following general categories - Unemployed, One-Parent Family or Pensioner.     

The amount of supplement paid is based on the income of the person (pension + any means assessed where applicable), the amount that the income received is above the Supplementary Welfare Allowance rate (our version of Income Support), a minimum contribution which the tenant must pay themselves and the rent paid.

The Supplementary Welfare Allowance Rate for a single person from Jan 2009 is €204.30

As a very rough example:

Rent is 100 euro per week.
Pension Income 220 euro per week
SWA rate for single person 204.30 per week (2009 rate)
Minimum Contribution 18 euro per week (2009 rate)

Income in excess = pension - SWA rate = 15.70
Rent Supplement = Rent - (income in excess + minimum contribution)

Rent Supplement payable = 100 - (15.70 + 18) = 66.30 pw.

These are the rules which apply at the moment, and are subject to change of course.


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## quasimodo (4 Dec 2008)

Thank you Gippiman - that was very helpful.   He was unaware of the Welfare programme.  Your example makes it all very clear.

He is not presently claiming any rental allowance in the UK because he does not pay rent.  Nor does he own a property so is not claiming any form of housing allowance. 

On the basis of the information given here (I understand it is just general guidelines and rough examples) I am wondering if he might just move to Eire from UK when he is ready, rent  a small place, claim rental allowance in Eire while he is awaiting approval of his application for non-contributory pension.  

He has many cousins in Ireland but wishes to be independent of family.


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## quasimodo (5 Dec 2008)

For those who are interested in this subject or who have followed the thread, I thought I would let you know that I made enquiries in Ireland and was told

 (a) that the applicant probably would satisfy the habitual resident requirements because he has lived in the Common Travel Area for years:

(b) that it takes about three months to process a new claim:

(c) that there is a programme for those on low income awaiting the decision of the assessor.  It is :

 Supplementary Welfare Allowance applicable during the wait for a decision from the Pension  Service Office.

http://www.citizensinformation.ie/categories/social-welfare/social-welfare-payments/supplementary-welfare-schemes/supplementary_welfare_allow/?searchterm=supplementary%20welfare


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## vivaitalia (8 Dec 2008)

From the information provided above it would appear that anybody living in the "Travel Area" with an Irish passport can come to Ireland and immediately be eligible for a non-contributory pension (or other SW benefits), providing they meet the means test.  There must be hundreds of thousands in this position, Ireland would be inundated! These could be persons who have may never have paid taxes or even set foot in Ireland (not saying this applies to OP). Last year a family member had problems and wanted to return to Ireland, but was unable to do so because of the habitual residence clause (she had lived in Italy). This in spite of having worked and paid SW & tax in Ireland for many years, as did rest of family who all emigrated and never used Irish SW system. This seems like discrimination between Irish citizens based on the country of residence, even within the EU.


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## quasimodo (10 Dec 2008)

You make a good point.  However, it works the other way doesn't it?   Irish citizens who satisfy the residency requirements in the UK or other countries, qualify for benefits there.

Does anybody know what period of time, if any, that pension (and possibly other benefits) will continue to be paid if the recipient is absent from Ireland?

For example the UK has just changed its rule.  It used to allow recipients to still qualify if they spent up to 4 weeks away, but have recently changed that to up 13 weeks.  I am not sure if that is per annum or on any given absence.  

Canada allows 6 continuous months on any given absence.

I do not see any reference to this in the Irish regulations.


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## Welfarite (10 Dec 2008)

You must normally continue to be resident in Ireland to receive non-contrubutory State Pension.


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## quasimodo (29 Dec 2008)

Welfarite, thanks.  However the bare words of that section need explaining.

"If you go on holiday abroad, payment of your pension for a period of up to 13 weeks is normally allowed on your return home. However, payment will not be allowed for repeated trips of this nature."

This suggests to me that payment for the 13 weeks away will be made on your arrival home. 

I cannot see how it could mean anything else.  If it meant no payment would be made for the 13 weeks absence what's the relevance of the 13 weeks?

I think the logic is that no payment will be made until you prove that you continue to be resident in Ireland by returning home, whereupon the back payments will be made, assuming that these kind of absences are not regular.   It does not define what "repeated trips are".  For example is it 13 weeks a year?

The 13 weeks coincides with the period allowed in the UK.

Am I understanding this correctly?


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## Welfarite (30 Dec 2008)

quasimodo said:


> Welfarite, thanks. However the bare words of that section need explaining.
> 
> "If you go on holiday abroad, payment of your pension for a period of up to 13 weeks is normally allowed on your return home. However, payment will not be allowed for repeated trips of this nature."
> 
> ...


 
Yes


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