# Making an extra room in part of loft - planning?



## RMCF (17 Jun 2010)

I am slightly short of space at home, and have been tinkering with the idea of trying to rustle up a small office space in the attic.

I was considering flooring it, building a stud wall and perhaps lining/insulating the roof part. Was thinking of a loft ladder up to it, although realised that this would be very awkward for getting furniture etc up to it.

So was wondering if anyone has done this recently, and if you have to talk to any authorities about it first? I was guessing that you would only need planning permission *if *you were going to advertise this as an extra room in your house if selling in the future? 

Any other things I need to consider?

_edit: I have just searched the forum for previous threads on the subject, and some of the money being mentioned (€17k --> €25k) is scary. Mine is really only to be used for maybe an hour per day for some school work at home. It doesn't have to be natural light, heavily insulated, proper staircase etc, so was hoping for a decent price for a DIY job._


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## onq (17 Jun 2010)

Please don't waste time on AAM by both asking and answering questions.

I don't know where you get your ideas from but you're not correct.

You need a stairs access and insulation for habitable areas.

Unless its storage use only you need a permission.

You need to avoid interstitial condensation.

You need upgraded fire proofing.

You need alternative escapes.

I could go on (and have).

Perhaps we need an attic conversion FAQ.

ONQ

[broken link removed]

All advice on AAM is remote from the situation and cannot be relied upon                                  as a defence or support - in and of    itself  -         should       legal        action    be      taken.
Competent legal and building professionals should be asked to advise in                                  Real Life with rights to inspect and   issue         reports    on     the         matters    at      hand.


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## nutty nut (19 Jun 2010)

onq said:


> Unless its storage use only you need a permission.


Im afraid that isnt correct. A home office can be accommodated in the attic area without having to apply for planning permission with certain conditions to be adhered to.




onq said:


> I could go on (and have).


Cant argue with that


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## RMCF (20 Jun 2010)

onq said:


> Please don't waste time on AAM by both asking and answering questions.
> 
> I don't know where you get your ideas from but you're not correct.
> 
> ...



Why don't you get down off your high horse. You just came across as a complete twat. Pity we can't all be as smart as you.

If *I* am converting a part of *my *loft for *my *use, then why must I have stairs access, and permission? If I don't want alternative escapes or upgraded fireproofing then why *must *I have them?

My post was aimed at someone who may have done a quick job to make use of the loft without spending tens of thousands on it, and who could maybe have actually offered me advice, rather than smart This post will be deleted if not edited to remove bad language answers.

Under your name it says 'contributor' not 'moderator', so you will forgive me for treating your reply with the contempt it deserves.

And we wonder why the numbers posting on here have declined. Probably because of ass-holes like you pontificating to others.

_Moderators, you can either delete this thread or ban me, I honestly couldn't care._


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## asdfg (20 Jun 2010)

the simple answer is,if it is a habbitable area,you need planning permission.as this seems to be a habbitable area you will need to adhere to building regs and co council regs.if you dont you could be in trouble with insurance as well.if on the other hand you want to put a ladder up to the attic ,not have any natural light[which you will need in a habbitable area] and also need planning for.floor the area as for loft space .,and put a desk and computer in theres no reason why you cant do this.hope this helps


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## Gervan (20 Jun 2010)

At the risk of being reported for infringing council regs, we floored and partitioned the attic and put in two velux windows for light and air, at the cost of about €1000. There is only a ladder access, but we have a computer, shelving etc up there.


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## RKQ (21 Jun 2010)

Have a look here:-
http://www.environ.ie/en/Publications/DevelopmentandHousing/Planning/FileDownLoad,1586,en.pdf

[broken link removed]

http://www.environ.ie/en/Developmen...ublicationsDocuments/FileDownLoad,1657,en.pdf

Note that a "Traditional cut roof" is easier to convert - screw fix all timber studs. However a "Pre-fabricated Truss" roof can not be converted without a Structural Engineers advice & calculations. 

Insulation, ventilation of the roof timbers and means of fire escape are all very important points. The Building Regulations are there to protect you and your family.


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## RMCF (21 Jun 2010)

Gervan said:


> At the risk of being reported for infringing council regs, we floored and partitioned the attic and put in two velux windows for light and air, at the cost of about €1000. There is only a ladder access, but we have a computer, shelving etc up there.




Thats the sort of thing I had in mind. Thanks.
Thanks to RKQ too.


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## onq (27 Jun 2010)

nutty nut said:


> Im afraid that isnt correct. A home office can be accommodated in the attic area without having to apply for planning permission with certain conditions to be adhered to.
> 
> 
> Cant argue with that



Happy to stand corrected, nutty nut.

Part of me was thinking "you will have to comply with the building regulations" and wrote "you need a permission".
Dunno why, since conversion of an attic for habitable residential use isn't considered development per se.

Part of me was thinking it could be a home office by another name - and that may require permission.
And if its to be used as a sole office for a profitable undertaking, it attracts a rateable valuation.

The other issues in terms of requiring a stairs access and fire-proofing/alarm all apply.
Thanks for the correction anyway.

ONQ

[broken link removed]

All advice on AAM is remote from the situation and cannot be relied upon                                   as a defence or support - in and of     itself  -         should       legal        action    be      taken.
Competent legal and building professionals should be asked to advise in                                   Real Life with rights to inspect and    issue         reports    on     the         matters    at      hand.


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## onq (27 Jun 2010)

RMCF said:


> Why don't you get down off your high horse. You just came across as a complete twat. Pity we can't all be as smart as you.
> 
> If *I* am converting a part of *my *loft for *my *use, then why must I have stairs access, and permission? If I don't want alternative escapes or upgraded fireproofing then why *must *I have them?



That's a bit like asking "If *I* am shooting someone with *my* gun in *my* house, why must he be an intruder and I in fear of my life for it not to be murder"

The answer is "because its the law" RMCF, its not optional, or down to what you think it alright.
In your case its intended to protect you from yourself should a fire occur when you're up there.


> My post was aimed at someone who may have done a quick job to make use of the loft without spending tens of thousands on it, and who could maybe have actually offered me advice, rather than smart This post will be deleted if not edited to remove bad language answers.


You asked and apparently answered your own question.


> Under your name it says 'contributor' not 'moderator', so you will forgive me for treating your reply with the contempt it deserves.
> 
> And we wonder why the numbers posting on here have declined. Probably because of ass-holes like you pontificating to others.
> 
> _Moderators, you can either delete this thread or ban me, I honestly couldn't care._


You seem a bit stressed out for someone who only came here for advice.
Perhaps posts like yours may explain any reduction in numbers.
Or perhaps its just the dreaded "R" word taking its toll.

ONQ

 [broken link removed]

 All advice on AAM is remote from the situation and cannot be relied upon                                   as a defence or support - in and of     itself  -         should       legal        action    be      taken.
 Competent legal and building professionals should be asked to advise in                                   Real Life with rights to inspect and    issue         reports    on     the         matters    at      hand.


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## onq (27 Jun 2010)

Gervan said:


> At the risk of being reported for infringing council regs, we floored and partitioned the attic and put in two velux windows for light and air, at the cost of about €1000. There is only a ladder access, but we have a computer, shelving etc up there.



Given that we don't know your details, that would be difficult, but in any case most architects might only report something where liability arose for them/ their PI.
The regulations are part of Statute Law and are not tied to a Council in that sense, although Councils take any enforcement action that may be necessary.
While they are unlikely to discover your breaches, or to pursue them per se, you owe it to yourself to understand the regulations and comply with them.
If you don't its you or your family who may be at risk from fire or stairs hazard.

In addition, you might find your insurance might not cover you if you have undertaken conversion or extension work that doesn't comply.
For example, even where a stairs is installed but you include several kite winders to "fit it in" and a fall occurs because of these.
Insurance companies seem to take any opportunity to avoid  paying out on claims, which should give you pause for thought.

ONQ

 [broken link removed]

 All advice on AAM is remote from the situation and cannot be relied  upon                                   as a defence or support - in and  of     itself  -         should       legal        action    be       taken.
 Competent legal and building professionals should be asked to advise in                                    Real Life with rights to inspect and     issue         reports    on     the         matters    at      hand.


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## asdfg (3 Jul 2010)

a friend of mine was reported to the council for unlawfull devolepment ,it was a habbitable area .They had no planning permission .They had windows to the back and front of the house.I would check with the council to be sure


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## TheRed (3 Jul 2010)

Although not explicit in the planning regulations, rooflights to the rear of a roofslope are considered exempt by most council planning departments and rooflights to the front need planning permission. Dormer windows always need planning permission.  

The use of the attic, that is the loft conversion does not in itself require pp as it is within the envelop of your own property.

As to the building regs, very little inspection goes on in this country. If you were to sell the house, the attic room would be listed a storage unless you could achieve the standard head height, proper stairs etc.


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## RMCF (3 Jul 2010)

TheRed said:


> Although not explicit in the planning regulations, rooflights to the rear of a roofslope are considered exempt by most council planning departments and rooflights to the front need planning permission. Dormer windows always need planning permission.
> 
> The use of the attic, that is the loft conversion does not in itself require pp as it is within the envelop of your own property.
> 
> As to the building regs, very little inspection goes on in this country. *If you were to sell the house, the attic room would be listed a storage unless you could achieve the standard head height, proper stairs etc*.



Thanks. Thats what I thought, as said in my initial post.

If selling your house, you could not advertise this as an extra room as it didn't get planning permission.


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## onq (4 Jul 2010)

TheRed said:


> Although not explicit in the planning regulations, rooflights to the rear of a roofslope are considered exempt by most council planning departments and rooflights to the front need planning permission. Dormer windows always need planning permission.
> 
> The use of the attic, that is the loft conversion does not in itself require pp as it is within the envelop of your own property.
> 
> As to the building regs, very little inspection goes on in this country. If you were to sell the house, the attic room would be listed a storage unless you could achieve the standard head height, proper stairs etc.



On the use of the attic you are correct insofar as you go.

Use of an attic as a habitable area requires that the regulations be met as noted above.

On the matter of the dormers you are also correct.

However, rooflights to the front of a dwelling were deemed to be exempted by ABP - whether that applies to all cases remains to be seen.

ON house inspections, yes, there are precious few fortunes to be made in this area, but as noted previously, this may not centre on inspections per se, but health and safety for one's own family and getting insurance cover.

ONQ

 [broken link removed]

 All advice on AAM is remote from the situation and cannot be relied   upon                                   as a defence or support - in and   of     itself  -         should       legal        action    be        taken.
 Competent legal and building professionals should be asked to advise in                                     Real Life with rights to inspect and      issue         reports    on     the         matters    at       hand.


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