# Got offer on my house but buyer hasn't yet put their own on the market



## twentyfour (18 Feb 2008)

I wondered what is the best way to deal with this situation? The offer is at full asking price but the buyers are only putting their own house on the market this week. My own property has been on the market for months now so I think if I accept this I could be in for a long road. 

But yet I don't want to reject the offer out of hand either in case by some miracle my buyers go sale agreed v quickly. 

What would members advise as the best protocol in this situation? My EA seems to think that I should accept as it is a good offer and the only one on the table but I am surprised that these people even made an offer when there was essentially nothing to back it up and especially in the current market climate.


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## gar123 (18 Feb 2008)

why not accept it and put a deadline in place, look for proof from their solicitor in writing that they are going ahead

good luck


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## bacchus (18 Feb 2008)

This thread is worth reading....


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## twentyfour (18 Feb 2008)

Thanks, have read the thread but unfortunately it doesn't help all that much!


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## mf1 (18 Feb 2008)

twentyfour said:


> Thanks, have read the thread but unfortunately it doesn't help all that much!



You can say that you'd be pleased to keep them in mind and you'll be happy to sell to them ( if you have not already sold) when and if they sell their own and are in a position to purchase yours. Until then, you have to keep it on the market until you find a purchaser who can complete in a reasonable timeframe. 

mf


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## Paulone (18 Feb 2008)

I so know your predicament - you don't want to look a gift horse in the mouth.... provided that it is indeed a gift horse!

I went sale agreed with someone who was putting their own house on the market that same weekend. The gen from the EA was that they had a fine house that would sell quickly, but it turned out that there was some problem and it did not move that quickly at all.

In the meantime, I was being asked to continue the arrangement-making to sell to this person, but it all ground to a halt after several weeks.

After three months with no further prospect of their being able to close, my EA then recommended that we had waited long enough, returned the booking deposit and I was back on the market.

Fortunately, I went sale agreed again very quickly, but it was for a bit less and took it because I then needed to press ahead.

Check if your buyer is able to complete the deal without a sale of their own house and if not, check with your EA about the prospects of their selling their house promptly.

I also understand that its still possible for your EA to continue to show your house (discreetly) even if it is sale agreed, but they obviously aren't able to take any offers because the booking deposit indicates the buyer's genuine intention to complete the deal.

Make sure that the potential buyer pays a full booking deposit - if they are serious, then they'll pay it. Get your EA to make it clear that in the interests of expediting the sale, you reserve the right to return their booking deposit after - say 8 weeks - if they can't demonstrate that they are in a position to complete by then?


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## twofor1 (18 Feb 2008)

I too would tell them I will bear them in mind (as it's possible they could sell quickly) but I could not accept their offer until they were in a position to sign a unconditional contract. And tell my E/A to keep the house on the market.

If they need to sell, they are simply not in a position to buy your house. At best they are a potential customer for an unknown date in the future.


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## pinkie123 (18 Feb 2008)

Go sale agreed with them and keep house on the market. Let them know if you get an offer from someone ready to go you will reject their offer. then you have your options open.


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## Marie (18 Feb 2008)

You cannot simultaneously accept someone's offer to buy a property and then continue to offer it on the open market.

If the original poster cannot wait for the normal process of the (only!) potential buyer selling on their own property then she should specify to the Estate Agent that only a cash-buyer who can commit to settling within 2 - 3 months will be entertained.  This is the nature of a property 'chain'.  You are dependent on everyone else - both up and down the chain.  The alternative to that is to wait for a cash, first-time buyer who is not relying on selling their own property before completing on yours.


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## batty (19 Feb 2008)

Marie said:


> You cannot simultaneously accept someone's offer to buy a property and then continue to offer it on the open market.
> 
> quote]
> 
> ...


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## Nodser (19 Feb 2008)

batty said:


> Marie said:
> 
> 
> > You cannot simultaneously accept someone's offer to buy a property and then continue to offer it on the open market.
> ...


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## twentyfour (19 Feb 2008)

Yes, I'd rather not do that as I want to try and be reasonable, but at the same time I would have thought that making an offer on a property before even putting theirs on the market was a bit naive? I've done what most have suggested which is to say that I'd be happy to consider their offer once they've at least gone sale agreed which I hope is the fairest reply.


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## MrMan (19 Feb 2008)

In fairness when some people put offers on properties without the funds to back them up you would have to take some of those offers with a pinch of salt. Anyone looking for a property that needs to sell their own and hasn't yet put their own on the market is looking to have their cake and eat it if they think a vendor will accept their offer and simply wait for theirs to sell. What you will probably find is for instance their house takes 3/4 months and achieves lower than expected price so in turn they say to you that they have to reduce their offer and you have lost 3/4 months of market time. You have to protect yourself in this case, so don't get too caught up with the morality of it all.


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## batty (19 Feb 2008)

Nodser said:


> batty said:
> 
> 
> > Batty is right. It is not a very nice thing to do but it is allowed. But remember what goes around comes around. In otherwords don't be surprised if gazundering (Excuse spelling) occurs or if buyer keeps looking at other properties after offering on yours.
> ...


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## rmelly (19 Feb 2008)

Lets be realistic - the people who made the offer aren't in a position to follow through in a timely manner. Forget about it and move on.


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## Nodser (19 Feb 2008)

rmelly said:


> Lets be realistic - the people who made the offer aren't in a position to follow through in a timely manner. Forget about it and move on.


 
Again I do not necessarily agree. If you look at it the other way, would you buy a property from someone who did not have a property to move to. I certainly would not. I lived for a long time in England and was involved in a few property chains during my time there. It was standard practice then for someone to put an offer on one house before putting there own on the market.


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## Nodser (19 Feb 2008)

batty said:


> Nodser said:
> 
> 
> > I didn't think that "it wasn't a nice thing to do" after I had been let down by 3 separate parties, taken my house off the market following an offer & then they backed out!!
> ...


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## mf1 (19 Feb 2008)

I think its important to make a few salient points about property/conveyancing etc.,etc in this jurisdiction which differs very considerably from the UK. 

1. The "property chain" concept has never really taken off in this country. Rather than have a long list of prospective vendors and purchasers none of whom were ever contractually bound until the last, possible, skid to the finish, minute, most vendors will have a contingency plan to move somewhere rather than lose a sale. Purchasers come in many shapes and sizes - a lot will be f.t.b's, cash, " on bridging finance" and mostly it will become clear early in a transaction if a purchaser is a serious contender or ( as someone here said) at best naive. For anyone who has been out of the property market for a while, the complexities of buying/selling/dovetailing transactions can come as a major shock. Witness some of the posters on these pages.

2. Its entirely possible to "accept" someone's offer "in principle" while continuing to show the properye. But the offer is only as good as the offerors ability to complete. 

3. With so much uncertainty in the market, I think everyone ( Vendors, Purchasers and EA's) are going to have to be much more flexible/creative/reactive in the whole process. 

mf


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## Nodser (19 Feb 2008)

mf1 said:


> I think its important to make a few salient points about property/conveyancing etc.,etc in this jurisdiction which differs very considerably from the UK.
> 
> 1. The "property chain" concept has never really taken off in this country. Rather than have a long list of prospective vendors and purchasers none of whom were ever contractually bound until the last, possible, skid to the finish, minute, most vendors will have a contingency plan to move somewhere rather than lose a sale. Purchasers come in many shapes and sizes - a lot will be f.t.b's, cash, " on bridging finance" and mostly it will become clear early in a transaction if a purchaser is a serious contender or ( as someone here said) at best naive. For anyone who has been out of the property market for a while, the complexities of buying/selling/dovetailing transactions can come as a major shock. Witness some of the posters on these pages.
> 
> ...


 
I agree with most of that. However the situation has now changed from a rapidly rising market where everyone wanted to move on a quick as possible in the chains. We are now in a falling market (and may remain so for next 2 years) so things are very likely to change. Long chains may well become a feature of Irish market.


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## rmelly (19 Feb 2008)

Nodser said:


> Again I do not necessarily agree. If you look at it the other way, would you buy a property from someone who did not have a property to move to. I certainly would not. I lived for a long time in England and was involved in a few property chains during my time there. It was standard practice then for someone to put an offer on one house before putting there own on the market.


 
The poster asked for advice, as far as I know he/she doesn't live in England, so how this is of any relevance is beyond me - are the market conditions (Ireland now, versus UK 'for a long time') comparable?

Presumably he/she does not want to be part of a long chain, so is free to take whatever action he/she deems necessary to prevent it.

You seem to be a fan of property chains as per your experience in England and your 'forecasts' (wonder where you got that crystal ball), others are not.


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## Nodser (19 Feb 2008)

rmelly said:


> The poster asked for advice, as far as I know he/she doesn't live in England, so how this is of any relevance is beyond me - are the market conditions (Ireland now, versus UK 'for a long time') comparable?
> 
> Presumably he/she does not want to be part of a long chain, so is free to take whatever action he/she deems necessary to prevent it.
> 
> You seem to be a fan of property chains as per your experience in England and your 'forecasts' (wonder where you got that crystal ball), others are not.


 
Of course the original poster can take any action they want. I didn't think I was suggesting otherwise. I do think that accepting an offer and still looking for other offers is a bit underhand unless you make it clear that is what you are doing. 
I am not a fan of property chains. No one is.
If by "forecast" you mean me saying property prices are falling and may continue for next 2 years, well I thought just about everybody was saying that. If you feel different please enlighten me.


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## twentyfour (19 Feb 2008)

I don't live in England and I'm not being underhand as I told the buyers that I can only seriously consider their offer when they go sale agreed. My feeling is that they could be waiting some time for their property to sell so they aren't really in a position  to make a serious offer on mine - unless of course they opt for bridging but I'm not sure if this is an option anymore? I haven't heard of anyone doing for years but of course everything moved so fast in the last few years it was hardly needed, I suppose.


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## rmelly (19 Feb 2008)

> We are now in a falling market (and may remain so for next 2 years)


 
It was more the prediction of the end of the falling market, rather than it's existence. What makes you think it will last 2 years, or be over in 2 years?


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## Nodser (19 Feb 2008)

rmelly said:


> It was more the prediction of the end of the falling market, rather than it's existence. What makes you think it will last 2 years, or be over in 2 years?


 
I never predicted it will be over in 2 years. I said we are in a falling market and may remain so for next 2 years. The word may means it could be less it could be more.


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## rmelly (20 Feb 2008)

still a prediction, just a caveated one (you must not have too much confidence in it)...


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## Nodser (20 Feb 2008)

Really rmelly. What are you on? As i said previously 
"If by "forecast" you mean me saying property prices are falling and may continue for next 2 years, well I thought just about everybody was saying that. If you feel different please enlighten me."


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## batty (20 Feb 2008)

didn't think that "it wasn't a nice thing to do" after I had been let down by 3 separate parties, taken my house off the market following an offer & then they backed out!!

If somebody is serious about buying your house they'll have their funds in order & sign contracts promptly.

"what goes around comes around"?????????????Surely that's exactly what I was saying. You were not happy when it happened to you so you felt you had no option but to do it to someone else. ie "What goes around comes around" Quote

The point is Nodser i didn't think I was "doing" anything to anybody.  

I had a house for sale, I was approached by potential buyers who gave me an offer,  got me to draw up contarcts, take my house off the market therefore missing out on other potential sales. Then it became clear over time that these people NEVER had any serious intention of buying my house.

There appears to be an attitude from SOME buyers that as the market is currently a buyers market that it is perfectly ok to treat sellers with contempt.  Rant over.


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## Nodser (20 Feb 2008)

Sorry Batty. I was going on what you said earlier



Marie said:


> You cannot simultaneously accept someone's offer to buy a property and then continue to offer it on the open market.
> 
> quote]
> 
> ...


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## rmelly (20 Feb 2008)

Nodser said:


> Really rmelly. What are you on? As i said previously
> "If by "forecast" you mean me saying property prices are falling and may continue for next 2 years, well I thought just about everybody was saying that. If you feel different please enlighten me."


 
I haven't seen anyone other than you say 2 years. I've seen people say modest falls this year with static or low growth next year and beyond, or continual fall indefinitely etc. but no one that says prices continuing to fall for 2 years - I would just like to know what you base this on? Are you an Economist?


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## Nodser (20 Feb 2008)

rmelly said:


> I haven't seen anyone other than you say 2 years. I've seen people say modest falls this year with static or low growth next year and beyond, or continual fall indefinitely etc. but no one that says prices continuing to fall for 2 years - I would just like to know what you base this on? Are you an Economist?


 
"There will be a sharp fall in Irish housing completions over the next two years, with house prices also set to fall, according to construction industry economist Jerome Casey."



Morgan Kelly​​
April 11, 2007​Now that “For Sale” signs have become permanent fixtures on the landscape,
and even the dimmest paid cheerleaders for the property sector have given up pretending
that there is going to be a soft landing, it is worth asking how far house
prices are likely to fall, and what effect this will have on the Irish economy.
It is hard to be optimistic. Based on the experience of other economies that
have had similar bubbles, we can expect the real price of houses to fall by around
half over the next 8 or 9 years, and possibly by a good deal more. This fall in house
prices will cause a sudden collapse in house building activity which now accounts​directly for an astonishing 15 per cent of our national income.
Morgan Kelly is professor of economics at UCD


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## MelF (20 Feb 2008)

twentyfour said:


> I don't live in England and I'm not being underhand as I told the buyers that I can only seriously consider their offer when they go sale agreed. My feeling is that they could be waiting some time for their property to sell so they aren't really in a position to make a serious offer on mine - unless of course they opt for bridging but I'm not sure if this is an option anymore? I haven't heard of anyone doing for years but of course everything moved so fast in the last few years it was hardly needed, I suppose.


 
I think you've done the right thing given the circumstances. Good luck with finding an eventual buyer, either them or someone else.


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## rmelly (20 Feb 2008)

Nodser said:


> "There will be a sharp fall in Irish housing completions over the next two years, with house prices also set to fall, according to construction industry economist Jerome Casey."


 
This quote is from May 2007 - almost a year ago, so not relevant.

Morgan Kelly makes no reference to 2 years.


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## Marie (20 Feb 2008)

To return to the point, the OP has a PPR on the market and received an offer of full asking price after 'months'. 

S(he) is concerned the potential purchaser may take 'months' to sell their own PPR and thus be in a position to complete. 

The responses suggest giving the potential purchaser the impression their offer has been accepted and the property will not be offered to others............whilst continuing to offer it on the open market to others.

There is umming and ahhring by responders about implied stupidity or naevity of the potential purchasers and an assumption they may be about to treat the OP in a cavalier fashion.  

As it is difficult to see what the OP's concerns are (objectively!) based or what (objective!) factual basis the responses base their gloomy view of the potential purchasers' position.

You have had an offer to purchase.  Its your house and you can do whatever you like with it, based on your preferred timescale and assessment of the purchaser's circumstances.  You have to decide yourself and any suggestions about timescales or implicit intentions of others - or even broader market conditions - are obstructing that decision.  

It does seem the suggestions here evade that by suggesting you 'have it both ways' and in the circumstances that has serious implications for the unfortunate potential purchaser who believes they have found a suitable new home and begun the process of acquiring it.  

Saying you 'can't' is not so much a moral position as a practical one.  If a 'gazumping' culture develops (which was the point being made by the poster who had experience of the UK situation) then you yourself will inevitably experience the repercussions of fake transactions.


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## mf1 (20 Feb 2008)

"The responses suggest giving the potential purchaser the impression their offer has been accepted and the property will not be offered to others............whilst continuing to offer it on the open market to others."

No - if you check back, the general consensus is to say that when and if they ( Purchasers)are in a position to proceed and , if in the meantime, another offer has not been made and accepted, that then at that stage the Vendor will be pleased to negotiate with them.


"It does seem the suggestions here evade that by suggesting you 'have it both ways' and in the circumstances that has serious implications for the unfortunate potential purchaser who believes they have found a suitable new home and begun the process of acquiring it. "

If OP goes with the consensus, the proposed Purchaser will not be under misleading apprehension.

mf


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## amgd28 (20 Feb 2008)

rmelly said:


> This quote is from May 2007 - almost a year ago, so not relevant.
> 
> Morgan Kelly makes no reference to 2 years.



Also Morgan Kelly has been spouting about a major crash for a long time. He is hardly the most balanced commentator on the property market


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## MelF (20 Feb 2008)

But the OP has since stated she/he is not going to do anything underhand like accept the offer and keep viewing. Didn't they say they went back and said that if buyers go sale agreed he/she will consider them then?


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## Nodser (20 Feb 2008)

Okay okay. I withdraw it all. We are not in a falling market and property may not go down for next 2 years.


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## rmelly (20 Feb 2008)

it probably will though...


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## Marie (22 Feb 2008)

"No - if you check back, the general consensus is to say that when and if they ( Purchasers)are in a position to proceed and , if in the meantime, another offer has not been made and accepted, that then at that stage the Vendor will be pleased to negotiate with them."

To be honest that sounds like clap-trap to me and is "trying to have it both ways"?   Try this:-

"Yes!  It's YOURS!  Proceed with selling your own home on the basis you have a des-res to move to and the price is agreed..........._HOWEVER _we may phone you at any time to say "your" house has been sold to someone else."   

A potential purchaser who agreed to such an arrangement in the present market would be seriously out of touch with reality.


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## MrMan (22 Feb 2008)

The reality is cases like this are full of nothing but ifs and buts. There is no point in talking about moral issues when the only real issue is that there is no money on the table. No matter whether it is a buyers or a sellers market sale agreed subject to sale of another house should be a non starter (in most cases). Tell them that you are happy to accept their offer and you won't be looking to gazump them, but you cannot take it off the market until they are in a position to close. Don't put a time frame on it because it will only keep being pushed out.


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## mf1 (22 Feb 2008)

"To be honest that sounds like clap-trap to me and is "trying to have it both ways"?  Try this:-

"Yes! It's YOURS! Proceed with selling your own home on the basis you have a des-res to move to and the price is agreed...........HOWEVER we may phone you at any time to say "your" house has been sold to someone else." 

A potential purchaser who agreed to such an arrangement in the present market would be seriously out of touch with reality."

If you would re-read the posts.........

The prospective purchasers are not in a position to buy this house until they sell their own. The Vendors have been advised to be very open with these prospective purchasers. The Vendors need to keep the property on the market. If they find someone who is in a position to make a real offer, well and good. If they don't and if, down the line, the Purchasers do sell their own house and are in a position to actually buy the house as opposed to hoping against hope.........

I appreciate that "chains" are very common in the UK. But in Ireland they are not. They may become more common. I don't know. Our advice to our clients is, if they are serious about wanting to move house, that they should:

1. Put their own on the market.
2. Consider  selling before buying. 
3. Consider bridging finance - if they are comfortable with the possibility of their own not selling. 
4. Not restrict themselves to one "dream "home. 
5. Be prepared for the roller coaster that is buying and selling. 
6. Be realistic about their own ability to actually complete a sale or purchase and try not to waste everyones time.

There are an awful lot of tyre kickers in the world. 

mf


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## Bronte (22 Feb 2008)

In my opinion someone who has put an offer on a house that they cannot afford to purchase is a messer.  In this case the potential purchaser has not even put their own property on the market.  They are not serious and selling a house is serious business.  I cannot believe OP that you would even consider their offer.


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## sidzer (23 Feb 2008)

Many people see a house for sale in an area and decide to buy as ithey really like it - and because they really want it they jump in fear that they will lose out. Just because their house is not on the market doesn't mean that they are dishonest or not to be trusted as serious punters.

I recently made an enquiry to an auctioneer about a site. He was so informatative and friendly and I was stunned as It was about 15 years since an EA had given me this kind of service!!!

However, he lost interest when I told him where I live as a no house has sold in the estate in over a year despite about 10 tries... But I didn't need to sell or don't intend selling this house as I bought it purely for investment for its proximity to a hospital and college. I have the means to buy the site without selling the house.

My auctioneer friend - obviously rushed to judgement...

Maybe your buyer has the means to buy without first selling the house they are currently living in...

I think that it would be wrong to give soneone the run around by not being upfront. If they do sell their house and you have then sold to another buyer a family may have nowhere to go.... And will not be too happy...

Everything was priced and sold in this country over the celtic years. Surely morals are priceless - our values are the bedrock of our society our civilization.....

Best of luck in your sale...


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