# Loc8: Internet purchases and lack of Post Codes in Ireland



## Guest106 (22 Aug 2008)

Some communication attempts via the Internet  I've tried to make with websites abroad have run into difficulty because of the lack of a Post Code in Irish addresses.
The Irish postal numbering system just doesn't wash with foreign systems.
How to circumvent this ?
Anybody had this experience ?


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## TarfHead (22 Aug 2008)

*Re: Trouble with Post Codes*

I key in DUB*13* or DUBLIN*13* (*13* being my house's postcode).


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## mathepac (22 Aug 2008)

*Re: Trouble with Post Codes*

Some may accept "0000" or "n/a", but annoying and unpredictably persist in reversing the town and county in printed communications.


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## z109 (22 Aug 2008)

*Re: Trouble with Post Codes*

N0 NE usually gets around it!


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## ClubMan (22 Aug 2008)

*Re: Trouble with Post Codes*

Maybe try in SAN TA1 and see what happens?


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## Bubbly Scot (22 Aug 2008)

*Re: Trouble with Post Codes*



mathepac said:


> Some may accept "0000" or "n/a", but annoying and unpredictably persist in reversing the town and county in printed communications.


 
I wondered why that sometimes happens, I tend to use 00000


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## addob (22 Aug 2008)

*Re: Trouble with Post Codes*

I usually enter IRE on orders from the likes of amazon or other online orders

ad


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## Guest106 (22 Aug 2008)

*Re: Trouble with Post Codes*

After several failed attempts recently, when I had offered  OOOO....... then N/A.....then No Post Code......then the Dublin Post Code of Residency..... and all promptly rejected indicating inadequacy in the Post Code section so in exasperation I tried the Post Code of the business entity I was trying to communicate with in the UK and guess what.....it worked !
And my goods duly arrived displaying a six figure Dublin Post Code in the address with the usual pencilled correction at this end.  
But seriously there must be an easier and more correct way of filling in the Post Code boxes.  Some good responses here tho'.
Maybe we haven't got the best answer yet ?


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## truthseeker (22 Aug 2008)

*Re: Trouble with Post Codes*

I always just use D12 (or whatever dublin post code is revelant) and it works.

Pity all online systems arent like amazon japan where if you are specifing a delivery address outside of Japan they give you a free text address form to fill out and you can write the address any old way you like with no validation on it - when the goods arrive its printed exactly as you entered.


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## shaking (22 Aug 2008)

*Re: Trouble with Post Codes*

i put eire it's always worked for me!


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## Thirsty (22 Aug 2008)

*Re: Trouble with Post Codes*

I use 99999 and it works fine.


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## Milly (22 Aug 2008)

*Re: Trouble with Post Codes*

I always put a full stop . and it it works!


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## z109 (22 Aug 2008)

*Re: Trouble with Post Codes*

You could always get a PONC:
[broken link removed]


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## addob (22 Aug 2008)

*Re: Trouble with Post Codes*



yoganmahew said:


> You could always get a PONC:
> [broken link removed]


 
Thats interesting but does it work?


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## z103 (22 Aug 2008)

*Re: Trouble with Post Codes*

90210 often works.


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## gipimann (22 Aug 2008)

*Re: Trouble with Post Codes*

I use the county car registration letters - LH - and it usually works.


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## LouthLass (23 Aug 2008)

*Re: Internet purchases made difficult with lack of Post Codes in Ireland*

My colleague at work today has just informed me that Ireland is in the process of introducing postcodes - does anyone have any further information on this?  Agree it is very irritating currently trying to order goods over internet that insist on postcodes!  In the past I have entered N0A (Not Applicable) and have always received my items.  How would postcodes work in this country - any ideas?


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## ClubMan (23 Aug 2008)

*Re: Internet purchases made difficult with lack of Post Codes in Ireland*



LouthLass said:


> My colleague at work today has just informed me that Ireland is in the process of introducing postcodes - does anyone have any further information on this?


There was talk about it a few years ago but I never heard of anything actually happening.


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## LouthLass (23 Aug 2008)

*Re: Internet purchases made difficult with lack of Post Codes in Ireland*

As Clubman says, there was talk of this a few years ago, does anyone think An Post will actually take the plunge and introduce postcodes? Personally, I think it would make such a difference but then again maybe I have lived in UK too long


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## ClubMan (23 Aug 2008)

*Re: Internet purchases made difficult with lack of Post Codes in Ireland*

Would it make that much difference in a country as relatively small as _Ireland_?

Somebody mentioned [broken link removed] on another thread which might be of interest even if it's not "official".


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## bleary (23 Aug 2008)

*Re: Internet purchases made difficult with lack of Post Codes in Ireland*

40% of rural addresses are non unique -it will cut down on costs for all businesses and a lot 
of government services when it is introduced.


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## csirl (25 Aug 2008)

*Re: Internet purchases made difficult with lack of Post Codes in Ireland*

Another good trick for Dublin addresses is to include the postcode in the "City" section as you've no idea how the postcode is going to work out when they print the label e.g.:

If I wanted it sent to Dublin 1, I would type "Dublin 1" in the City box rather than just "Dublin". 

That way the label usually prints:

"AN Other.
1 O'Connell Street,
Dublin 1
Ireland."

And it becomes irrelevant what they put in the post code box as our post office will just use the above.


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## garydubh (25 Aug 2008)

*Re: Internet purchases made difficult with lack of Post Codes in Ireland*



ClubMan said:


> There was talk about it a few years ago but I never heard of anything actually happening.


 
I have the answer to your question but I fear that if I go through the detail you may consider it advertising and again remove my posts. I have been involved in the search for a Post Code system for Ireland since it was announced in early 2005. To go through the detail I would have to mention a system which my company has developed. 

In short a plan to introduce a National System by 1st Jan 2008 was shelved and now the most likely date is 2010 and a system that "yoganmahew" mentioned in an earlier post could become the National system and is the only system currently working and useable.


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## Dearg Doom (26 Aug 2008)

*Re: Internet purchases made difficult with lack of Post Codes in Ireland*



> I have the answer to your question but I fear that if I go through the detail you may consider it advertising



Not if you give an unbiased statement of facts. I for one would certainly be interested in knowing more about if/when some scheme of standardised post codes might be introduced, what schemes are being considered, etc.


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## garydubh (26 Aug 2008)

*Re: Internet purchases made difficult with lack of Post Codes in Ireland*



Dearg Doom said:


> Not if you give an unbiased statement of facts. I for one would certainly be interested in knowing more about if/when some scheme of standardised post codes might be introduced, what schemes are being considered, etc.


 
2005 Gov Post Code Board established
2005 Consultants Appointed
2006 3 Recommendations made with the No1. recommendation having 3 letters & 3 numbers giving resolution of 20 houses approx in Dublin and up to 6km in other counties.
Jan 2007 as the no. 1 recommendation was considered worse than UK system and not suitable for navigation i.e. for commercial deliveries services etc - GPS Ireland Published Proposals for the alternative PON Code system.
2007 Gov Proposal sent by Dept Of Comms for Further Cost Benefit Analysis.
Dec 2007 Member of Gov Post Code Management Board launched his own Coordinate Based Post Code Proposal in competition with Post Codes Board's own Proposals and GPS Ireland's - this has since been shown to be unworkable as users could have a post Code spelling words such as "D0G FACE"
Jan 2008 Gov Deadline for Implementation of a National Post Code System Passed without comment or update
June 2008 GPS Ireland Launched PON Codes for use by SatNav users as well as mail delivery services
????2008 Dept of Comms supposed to report back to Gov on cost benefit analysis of No 1 recommended system

It is estimated that no1 recommended system will cost Euro50 million and 18 months to implement (including a technology support payment to An Post to encourage recognition) Because this system will have a resolution as poor as 6 km in rural areas it will not be suitable for tourists, emergency services, couriers, service providers etc etc.

Jan 2010 commencement of liberalisation of Postal Services in Ireland where commercial organisations under license can deliver mail.


It is suggested that if the Gov No1. proposal was given the go ahead this autumn (unlikely because of budgetary and other considerations) then it would be mid 2010 before it was implemented (substantial databases to be created etc) - this would mean that new commercial organisations entering the Postal Delivery market will not have the benefit of Post Codes when they start, thereby maintaining An Post's Advantage in the market initially.

Major SatNav manufacturers and Map makers for SatNav's have been trying to agree a license agreement with the Ordnance Survey of Ireland (OSI) for use of their mapping for several years. To date this has not been possible because of the licensing fees asked by the OSI. OSI is the semi state body responsible for mapping in Ireland. It is feared that if the no. 1 Gov proposal is adopted - because it will rely heavily on a database which must be kept to date and partly contributed to by the OSI, SatNav makers may not be able to agree an affordable licensing agreement for the database and its update with Gov (ComReg) etc. This could mean that the national post code system would not be available for use on SatNav's for 1.5 million SatNav users predicted by 2010 (including over 0.5 million commercial vehicle users) and the 1 million plus vistors who come to Ireland by road annually.

In the mean time PON Codes are a working system which satisfy all the requirements as set out by the Post Code board in 2005 and by the National Statistics Board (NSB). PON Codes simplify implementation because they are coordinate based no databases are required to implement or to keep up to date. For this reason Garmin was able to implement PON Codes for testing on their Garmin Nuvi 700 series at no cost and there is no cost to the user. 

Finally readers should realise that users of an Irish Post Code System will be mainly those who provide services using vehicles on Irish roads. Therefore, discussion about an Irish Post Code system should not be confined to mail services!


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## Mumha (1 Sep 2008)

*Re: Internet purchases made difficult with lack of Post Codes in Ireland*

How accurate is the PON system ?


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## Dearg Doom (1 Sep 2008)

*Re: Internet purchases made difficult with lack of Post Codes in Ireland*



> the PON Code has a resolution of +/- 6 meters


 from [broken link removed].


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## csirl (1 Sep 2008)

*Re: Internet purchases made difficult with lack of Post Codes in Ireland*



> 2006 3 Recommendations made with the No1. recommendation having 3 letters & 3 numbers giving resolution of 20 houses approx in Dublin and up to 6km in other counties.2006 3 Recommendations made with the No1. recommendation having 3 letters & 3 numbers giving resolution of 20 houses approx in Dublin and up to 6km in other counties.


 
Isnt this the daftest lack of foresight idea ever. Did they not consider that population densities change over time and some rural area of 6km may have 100,000s of homes at some future date?


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## garydubh (10 Sep 2008)

*Re: Internet purchases made difficult with lack of Post Codes in Ireland*

A review by a second set of consultants (2008) into the recommendations of the first set of consultants (2005), received by the Eamon Ryan, Minister for Communications, in early September 2008 seems now to be recommending adoption of a Post Code System which will allow a unique post code for most properties in Ireland - i.e the type of system proposed by GPS Ireland in PON Codes. 
See here: [broken link removed]

This is different to the original Government Post Code Proposal which seemed to suggest an area based system like "D04 123" or "GAL 123" which represented an area of about 20 houses in Dublin 4 and up to 5 or 6 square kilometers in country areas and would not have been of any value for vehicle based services including Emergency Services and SatNav users.

Right now, PON Codes which are available at [broken link removed] are the only system publically available, proven and working which can satisfy the recommendations of the latest consultants. The only satisfactory way to give unique Post Codes to each property is to use Coordinates - i.e. grid references presented in a user friendly and memorable format like PON Codes


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## Celtwytch (10 Sep 2008)

*Re: Trouble with Post Codes*



leghorn said:


> 90210 Often Works.


 
Lmao!


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## AlastairSC (10 Sep 2008)

*Re: Internet purchases made difficult with lack of Post Codes in Ireland*

Thanks for posting, Garydubh - interesting that little of this has made the news at any time. I remember when the car registration system changed - the present system was one of three possibilities and the most intuitive to understand.

Why can't we just adopt a working system from another country similar in scale and density to Ireland? If, say, three others have good systems could we not just select one or a combination of them? Why reinvent the wheel?
(Hobbyhorse of mine - we could do this with so much more: transit system, health organisation etc etc. But no - we have to argue and squabble for years, wrestling with our own version which is often less efficient. Grrr  
- rant over!

FWIW, I use a made-up postcode based on the UK system e.g. for Lismore, Co Waterford I'd put LM1 1WW or something. Enough to get past the validation systems of webmasters who insist on a limited number of formats.


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## gradgrind (11 Sep 2008)

*Re: Internet purchases made difficult with lack of Post Codes in Ireland*

One plausible reason I've heard given for why we don't have postcodes is that An Post are the people generally tasked with coming up with a scheme. 

Unfortunately An Post are the company with the most to lose from a postcode system, An Post has the biggest distribution system - they have the best local knowledge. They really don't need postcodes to deliver mail. 

On the other hand postcodes would make it easy for competitors to better organize deliveries and more economical routes, so understandably An Post have been dragging their heels.


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## garydubh (12 Sep 2008)

*Re: Internet purchases made difficult with lack of Post Codes in Ireland*



AlastairSC said:


> FWIW, I use a made-up postcode based on the UK system e.g. for Lismore, Co Waterford I'd put LM1 1WW or something. Enough to get past the validation systems of webmasters who insist on a limited number of formats.


 
YXY 42JJ is the actual PON Code for center of Lismore!!!


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## garydubh (9 Oct 2008)

*Re: Internet purchases made difficult with lack of Post Codes in Ireland*

Latest Update on Post Codes for Ireland here:
[broken link removed]


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## rmelly (9 Oct 2008)

*Re: Internet purchases made difficult with lack of Post Codes in Ireland*

In my experience the WEEE directive is much more of a problem than postcodes.


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## garydubh (14 Oct 2008)

*Re: Internet purchases made difficult with lack of Post Codes in Ireland*



rmelly said:


> In my experience the WEEE directive is much more of a problem than postcodes.


 
But it's only a WEEE problem - postcodes require thinking outside the box and pushing the envelope!


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## rmelly (14 Oct 2008)

*Re: Internet purchases made difficult with lack of Post Codes in Ireland*



garydubh said:


> But it's only a WEEE problem - postcodes require thinking outside the box and pushing the envelope!


 
It is's such a WEEE problem why haven't the likes of amazon solved it yet?


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## garydubh (14 Oct 2008)

*Re: Internet purchases made difficult with lack of Post Codes in Ireland*

So there you go - as I projected - a National Post Code system was supposed to be introduced by Jan 2008. I have spent the last few hours searching through the budget estimates for 2009 as announced today and there is no apparant allocation for a National Post Code system in 2009 either. In fact, the Dept Of Comms budget in 2009 will be down by 13% - so definitely no obvious provision for the capital cost of a National System or for the compensatory costs suggested for An Post. 
Outline capital estimates for 2010, also published today, show no obvious allocations either. In fact, as far as I can see, the last official (Government or Departmental) mention of a National Post Code system was in the Green Party statement on the programme for Government last December (2007). Looks like proposals for a National Post Code system have been well and truly shelved for now!

Just as well PON codes are in place - they do not require millions of capital expenditure to establish and they are ready to use..... [broken link removed] and - at no cost to the state!
http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/report.php?p=57577082


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## Lipstick69 (21 Oct 2008)

*Re: Internet purchases made difficult with lack of Post Codes in Ireland*

Posted by Garydubh:Jan 2010 commencement of liberalisation of Postal Services in Ireland where commercial organisations under license can deliver mail.


Actually, it's Jan 2011


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## csirl (22 Oct 2008)

*Re: Internet purchases made difficult with lack of Post Codes in Ireland*

To be perfectly honest, the PON codes are too complex and cumbersome for domeitic customers - there are simpler more customer friendly options out there that would be easier.


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## dvpower (1 Nov 2008)

*Re: Internet purchases made difficult with lack of Post Codes in Ireland*

90210


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## garydubh (17 Jul 2010)

dvpower said:


> 90210


 
just launched Loc8 Codes


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## ajapale (17 Jul 2010)

Hi Gary,

Any links?

aj


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## Complainer (17 Jul 2010)

http://www.siliconrepublic.com/comms/item/16941-digital-address-code-system/


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