# UK Bankruptcy - Car being sold by OR



## UK_Bound (2 Jun 2014)

We had our interview with the OR and all went well except there was a question over the cars value.
The car was a category D write off with extensive body damage when we bought it but it is drivable. 
We used a number of online valuers to get a quote for value of car and they were are coming in lower than 2k.
We provided these valuations to the OR in our interview, however they get an independent valuation done and he told us if it comes back any higher than 2k they will lift the car off us and take as an asset and give us £1,000 towards getting a new car.

We have just been told now by the OR that the valuation came back to him and they are valuing the car at £2,900 and as a result will be seizing the car. 
We have been told if we can get money off family and friends we can pay the difference of 1,900 and keep the car.

Does anyone have any experience or knowledge on how best to deal with this situation.

 Thanks


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## Steve Thatcher (2 Jun 2014)

UK_Bound said:


> We had our interview with the OR and all went well except there was a question over the cars value.
> The car was a category D write off with extensive body damage when we bought it but it is drivable.
> We used a number of online valuers to get a quote for value of car and they were are coming in lower than 2k.
> We provided these valuations to the OR in our interview, however they get an independent valuation done and he told us if it comes back any higher than 2k they will lift the car off us and take as an asset and give us £1,000 towards getting a new car.
> ...




Do you need a decent car for travel? If so you can argue that £1000 is not enough to buy a car that is reliable. I find it strange that they would allow you to keep the car, if it was worth £2000, but will only give you £1000 for a replacement. This needs taking up with them. Ask them to show you where in their guidance it says that you may only have a vehicle worth £1000.

It does seem to be the way that they now go to extricate a bit of additional fee.

Steve Thatcher
www.stevethatcher.ie


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## UK_Bound (2 Jun 2014)

Yeah find that a bit strange myself. We can keep car if under 2k but then if over they will give us 1k back. 
We don't agree with the valuation they are giving of 2900. He did said on the admin side of things he was willing to allow us if it was 2000 as that would be the absolute limit. 
He also said a 3rd party could come in and pay the 1900 difference but this seems so high, we bought the car a year ago for 2,800 and now the independent valuers are saying its worth 2900!? 

We have gone through the whole bankruptcy process on our own, could not afford legal advice or support as going through process as a couple it was out of our budget so appreciate the advice on this Steve, thanks for replying


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## suarez (2 Jun 2014)

It sounds like a tricky situation as it's important to keep the OR on side.  However, if you are completely broke, it seems unduly punitive to take a low value car from you. It's the first time I've ever heard of a car appreciating in value a year down the line. I would agree with Steve T's points. I would respectfully request a copy of the independent valuation and query why its valuation of the car should be considered any more valid than the valuations you provided.  In addition, is the car taxed and as a result will you lose out?  Will there be an administrative fine for changing insurance mid-term?  You could argue that you can't afford these additional expenses - tax and insurance changes. You could say that you need the car for work or to look for work and that a £1000 car would not be reliable enough for work and may, in fact, be a danger to you and your wife.  You could argue that you got your own car serviced properly and that you couldn't afford to get the new 1000 car serviced.  I would definitely say that there is no way a third party can hand over the money to you as most of your family and friends are in a similar situation due to the recession in Ireland.
Make your argument as compelling as possible, while remaining respectful throughout.  He might agree to a much lower figure, such as £100 or £200, to save himself the hassle of flogging the car.


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## Steve Thatcher (3 Jun 2014)

suarez said:


> It sounds like a tricky situation as it's important to keep the OR on side.  However, if you are completely broke, it seems unduly punitive to take a low value car from you. It's the first time I've ever heard of a car appreciating in value a year down the line. I would agree with Steve T's points. I would respectfully request a copy of the independent valuation and query why its valuation of the car should be considered any more valid than the valuations you provided.  In addition, is the car taxed and as a result will you lose out?  Will there be an administrative fine for changing insurance mid-term?  You could argue that you can't afford these additional expenses - tax and insurance changes. You could say that you need the car for work or to look for work and that a £1000 car would not be reliable enough for work and may, in fact, be a danger to you and your wife.  You could argue that you got your own car serviced properly and that you couldn't afford to get the new 1000 car serviced.  I would definitely say that there is no way a third party can hand over the money to you as most of your family and friends are in a similar situation due to the recession in Ireland.
> Make your argument as compelling as possible, while remaining respectful throughout.  He might agree to a much lower figure, such as £100 or £200, to save himself the hassle of flogging the car.



agreed

Steve Thatcher


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## UK_Bound (3 Jun 2014)

Thanks Suarez. That is an excellent help. 
I am drafting up an email to the OR at the minute so hopefully he will be considerate. 
Will let you know how we get on.


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## Samwise1 (12 Jun 2014)

UK_Bound said:


> We have gone through the whole bankruptcy process on our own, could not afford legal advice or support as going through process as a couple it was out of our budget so appreciate the advice on this Steve, thanks for replying



Myself and my husband are soon moving to the UK to set up our COMI and go through bankruptcy. Like you we are having to do it alone, we just dont have the funds, no money hidden anywhere, would appreciate any tips or advise, if you would be willing to share.

Thanks


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## Bronte (13 Jun 2014)

UK_Bound said:


> We have gone through the whole bankruptcy process on our own, could not afford legal advice or support as going through process as a couple it was out of our budget so


 
That's terrible news about the car, after all you've been through.  How the advice you've been given works.


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## UK_Bound (16 Jun 2014)

We wrote up a letter detailing everything. We went to a number of car dealers and got valuations, all of which were lower than the receivers agents valuation. 

I mentioned the likes of loosing out on insurance, tax and also that it would be difficult to find another car for 1k that is safe and reliable. I also stated at how much of a loss we would be without a car in between our current one being lifted and finding another suitable one. My wife recently lost her job and is looking for a new one so needs a car to travel to interviews as they are outside of the city where we are living.

He told us he need to speak with the Assistant Receiver and get him to make the decision. After a week he finally came back and he is insistent that they go with their valuation agents amount as they use them all the time and have to trust the valuation they provide. 

I had already questioned the fact that their own agents might have a personal interest in getting the car as they will sell at auction.

I was very respectable but very open and honest throughout. 

Does anyone have any advice on what we can do for now. 

We would have to pay £1,900 in order to keep the car at present valuation and this means asking family. They have said they can help us and would like too but there really is no way they can afford £1,900.


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## UK_Bound (16 Jun 2014)

Hi Samwise, Yes no problem would be glad to help anyone who is in our situation.

Do you want to setup a separate thread and ask any questions you like and we will help you the best we can. It means other people can easily find it too.


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## Bronte (16 Jun 2014)

Let's look at this another way, if you think the car is worth 2K and all your valuations point that way, then it should sell for 2K.  Therefore you have one K and you need another 1k to buy it, that's the way I'd look at it.  I presume there is nothing stopping you bidding on it yourself?


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## UK_Bound (16 Jun 2014)

No, they  £2,900. If they lifted the car the OR would give us £1k to buy a new car. Dont know about us being able to buy it back


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## suarez (16 Jun 2014)

Hi Uk Bound
It's a shame about the car. This idea of them having to trust their valuer - who's valuation is conveniently at odds with every other valuer - sounds like a rationalisation to me. If you and your wife want to return home to Ireland - you could take the 1000 and use it to go home.  You could use the seizing of your car as an excuse to go home ASAP. There is nothing to stop you both from returning home. By the way - if you are planning on returning to Ireland, be mindful of buying a replacement UK car as you will be liable for VRT on it, if it's in your ownership for less than a year. I'd wait and see what Steve T has to advise - before making ant decision.


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## UK_Bound (16 Jun 2014)

Bronte said:


> Let's look at this another way, if you think the car is worth 2K and all your valuations point that way, then it should sell for 2K.  Therefore you have one K and you need another 1k to buy it, that's the way I'd look at it.  I presume there is nothing stopping you bidding on it yourself?



Not sure if we're forbidden from bidding. I wouldn't imagine so but we would only be given the 1k cheque from the OR once the sale has completed. So apart from it being a very awkward and unnecessary process to go through we couldn't afford that cash up front.




suarez said:


> Hi Uk Bound
> It's a shame about the car. This idea of them having to trust their valuer - who's valuation is conveniently at odds with every other valuer - sounds like a rationalisation to me. If you and your wife want to return home to Ireland - you could take the 1000 and use it to go home.  You could use the seizing of your car as an excuse to go home ASAP. There is nothing to stop you both from returning home. By the way - if you are planning on returning to Ireland, be mindful of buying a replacement UK car as you will be liable for VRT on it, if it's in your ownership for less than a year. I'd wait and see what Steve T has to advise - before making ant decision.



Yes, the VRT issue adds a premium to us if we do return home. It almost doubles the value, comparing to prices back home, so it's definitely in our interest to try hold onto this car.


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## no_moolah (16 Jun 2014)

Samwise1 said:


> Myself and my husband are soon moving to the UK to set up our COMI and go through bankruptcy. Like you we are having to do it alone, we just dont have the funds, no money hidden anywhere, would appreciate any tips or advise, if you would be willing to share.
> 
> Thanks


 

Hi Samwise

I've also been through the process if you need any assistance.

NM


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## suarez (16 Jun 2014)

Hi UK Bound

I just private messaged you.


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## prodigy81 (16 Jun 2014)

@suerez, is it not dangerous to return home until you are completely finished etc, if not how early would you even contemplate the move..A very awkward converstation to have with the OR no?


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## Bronte (17 Jun 2014)

suarez said:


> . This idea of them having to trust their valuer - who's valuation is conveniently at odds with every other valuer - sounds like a rationalisation to me.


 
I disagree, it makes perfect sense from their point of view.  It's more transparent and less open to dispute and abuse.


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## suarez (17 Jun 2014)

Bronte
If the system is so transparent, how can you explain a car appreciating - as opposed to depreciating- in value? The system needs to be fair and transparent to all parties in the bankruptcy. The least the OR should do in this circumstance is use one other valuer. In addition, if the car was worth less than 2000 the bankruptee would be allowed to keep it - so how come the OR is not willing to give him 2000 from the sale? I think it's a little naive to assume that every government official is beyond rapproach.


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## prodigy81 (18 Jun 2014)

Hi there all, I am in a predicament, they are looking to put an IPA in place on my bankruptcy, I actually have no surplus cash..Is there anything I am missing out with. I earn only £1300 a month and £440 goes on rent. I am a single man and the electric and gas is included in the rent etc?? I am so worried I dont know what to do please help!!!


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## Steve Thatcher (18 Jun 2014)

prodigy81 said:


> Hi there all, I am in a predicament, they are looking to put an IPA in place on my bankruptcy, I actually have no surplus cash..Is there anything I am missing out with. I earn only £1300 a month and £440 goes on rent. I am a single man and the electric and gas is included in the rent etc?? I am so worried I dont know what to do please help!!!



You've posted this three times and now I'm advising you. Please take a deep breath and calm down. We have it under control

Steve


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## prodigy81 (18 Jun 2014)

Thank you so very much Steve, I am calm now.


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## suarez (25 Jun 2014)

UK_Bound said:


> We wrote up a letter detailing everything. We went to a number of car dealers and got valuations, all of which were lower than the receivers agents valuation.
> 
> I mentioned the likes of loosing out on insurance, tax and also that it would be difficult to find another car for 1k that is safe and reliable. I also stated at how much of a loss we would be without a car in between our current one being lifted and finding another suitable one. My wife recently lost her job and is looking for a new one so needs a car to travel to interviews as they are outside of the city where we are living.
> 
> ...



If the car is worth 2900 and you jointly own it with your wife - could you not argue that your half is valued at £1450 and your wife's is valued at £1450?  After all, you both went bankrupt separately?


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