# Cheque payable to either of two people



## MugsGame (30 Aug 2010)

If I make a cheque payable to either of two people, e.g. "Alice OR Bob", will an Irish bank allow either party to deposit the cheque?

I want to post Alice and Bob a cheque. I'm not sure if they have a joint account and I don't want to ask them. I could make it payable to one or send a smaller cheque to each, but I'd prefer a single cheque to both.

The excellent and interesting [broken link removed] doesn't seem to cover this.


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## JoeB (30 Aug 2010)

I can't see that working. I'd imagine you can only specify one payee.


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## amtc (30 Aug 2010)

Banks will only accept if a joint account


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## Sandals (30 Aug 2010)

credit union accepted all our wedding cheques with first names on them into a single account. 

I know i recently sent a cc cheque with two first names on it (wedding) and it was cashed two months later....


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## SlugBreath (30 Aug 2010)

If you make it payable to both they can both endorse the cheque. So Alice and Bob sign the back of the cheque and write "Pay Bob". So Alice and Bob are paying the cheque over to Bob.
Where you write the payee's name on the front of the cheque there are the words "or order" immediately after.


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## Padraigb (30 Aug 2010)

I suspect that "Alice *or* Bob" might cause a bit of bother to the banker, because the payee is not really specified (and my shadowy recollection is that a cheque must be payable to a specified person).

"Alice *and* Bob" is more specific, and can be dealt with in the manner recommended by SlugBreath.


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## TreeTiger (30 Aug 2010)

Could you not just make the cheque out to "Cash"?


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## MugsGame (30 Aug 2010)

Thanks guys. If I'd thought to search first I would have found previous threads on this subject which indicate (as I suspected) that using 'and' can cause its own problems:
http://www.askaboutmoney.com/showthread.php?p=882382
http://www.askaboutmoney.com/showthread.php?t=46866 

I'll make it payable to "Alice and Bob" uncrossed and suggest they endorse it if they run into problems. 



TreeTiger said:


> Could you not just make the cheque out to "Cash"?



Hmmm...


MugsGame said:


> I want to *post* Alice and Bob a cheque.





Padraigb said:


> (and my shadowy recollection is that a cheque must be payable to a specified person)..



That's supported by HowBankingWorks.ie


> The payee of a cheque should be unambiguous.


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## Gulliver (30 Aug 2010)

If a cheque is made payable to Bob or Alice, it is unambiguous. It cannot be negotiated by Bill or Mary. And it can be negotiated by either Bob or Alice. It is a valid cheque.

When I started working in a bank over 40 years ago, all cheques had an "or" printed on them. They were normally "pay Bob or order" which meant that they could be endorsed by Bob in favour of another person. Some were written "pay Bob or bearer" which meant that they could be negotiated by any holder.

The issue is not one of the validity of the cheque, but rather one of whether a bank will accept it. The majority of the rules relating to negotiation of cheques arise from banking practice, including the bank's interpretation of money laundering compliance. Some rules arise from precedent where judgements have been handed down in courts, frequently outside this jurisdiction, and a small number arise from legislation. There is no clear set of uniform rules which are practiced and accepted by all banks.

So the answer in my opinion is that a cheque payable to Bob or Alice is a valid cheque, but could easily fall foul of some internal rule of either the drawers bank or the payees bank. If the amount is small, the cheque is likely to pass unnoticed. If large (thousands) then it will receive greater attention. 

I believe that a similar series of issues arise if the cheque is made payable to both and negotiated in the manner suggested by Slugbreath.

Mugsgame, I'd like to know the outcome.

Gulliver (Editor,  ..... which is overdue for refresh/rewrite)


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## MugsGame (30 Aug 2010)

Thanks for that feedback Gulliver. I've already posted the cheque. It's a relatively small amount, so I don't expect too much scrutiny. Given the advice previously received on the thread, I made it payable to "Alice AND Bob".

In one of the other threads 10to1 outlined a "creative" way to "bypass" bank cheque handling practices!


10to1 said:


> I got a cheque/check made out to me and my wife recently. Bank refused to accept as it was crossed and we don't have a joint account. So I crossed off her name and initialled the change with the account holder's initials and re presented the cheque and it was accepted.


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## Padraigb (30 Aug 2010)

I'm not sure that "Bob or Alice" is unambiguous. The relevant legalese is from the Bills of Exchange Act, 1882, Section 3 (1):


> A bill of exchange is an  unconditional order in writing, addressed by one person to another,  signed by the person giving it, requiring the person to whom it is  addressed to pay on demand or at a fixed or determinable future time a  sum certain in money to or to the order of a specified person, or to  bearer.


Source: [broken link removed]

Cheques are Bills of Exchange.

Note the wording "to or to the order of _*a specified person*_, or to  bearer". The acceptable alternative to the "specified person" is whoever the specified person orders the cheque be paid to (which is done by endorsement).


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## WindUp (30 Aug 2010)

MugsGame said:


> Thanks for that feedback Gulliver. I've already posted the cheque. It's a relatively small amount, so I don't expect too much scrutiny. Given the advice previously received on the thread, I made it payable to "Alice AND Bob".
> 
> In one of the other threads 10to1 outlined a "creative" way to "bypass" bank cheque handling practices!


 
Originally Posted by *10to1* http://www.askaboutmoney.com/showthread.php?p=881222#post881222 
_I got a cheque/check made out to me and my wife recently. Bank refused to accept as it was crossed and we don't have a joint account. So I crossed off her name and initialled the change with the account holder's initials and re presented the cheque and it was accepted._


Surely that amounts to fraud


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## Macattack (3 Sep 2010)

you cannot make a cheque payable to "OR" or "Cash". In the past you may have been able but no longer due to strict enforcement of banking rules.

If you do not cross the cheque and make it out to "Bob & Alice" either can cash it.
If you cross it (ie. two lines, account payee only) it can only go into a joint account.

please note that some cheque books &/or drafts are pre - crossed


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## Gulliver (4 Sep 2010)

Padraigb said:


> Note the wording "to or to the order of _*a specified person*_, or to bearer". The acceptable alternative to the "specified person" is whoever the specified person orders the cheque be paid to (which is done by endorsement).


 
Well spotted Padraigb, but according to your strict interpretation, a cheque made out as payable to Bob & Alice would equally fail to satisfy the legislation which states "a specified person"


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