# Drivers bad manners to cyclists on the road



## truthseeker (15 Sep 2009)

I have just started cycling to work again (used to years ago).

This morning I had a woman beeping me unnecessarily as I tried to cycle past roadworks (so very little space on the road), while in front there was a gap of maybe 20 metres before a red light - it wasnt like I was holding her up.

Then I had a man decide to ignore the fact I was indicating to turn right and go round me on the WRONG side of the road, almost causing a head on collision with another car, and proceed to look back shaking his fist and shouting out the window at me.

Im not a messy cyclist, Im not terribly fast and I do not take risks.

Im just shocked at the behaviour of drivers on the road to cyclists - one of the roads I have to use is busy and has two different sets of roadworks, there is no choice for me but to cycle round the road works, while trying to stay safe and not have an accident due to the roadworks rubble spilling out onto the road edge!!

Anyone any advice on how to handle such incidents? Or how to avoid them in the first place when Im not actually doing anything I shouldnt be?


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## Jim Davis (15 Sep 2009)

My advice is to stay off the road. I dont have much sympathy for cyclists, they dont pay tax or insurance, they fly in and out of cars, swerve all over the road, pay no heed to traffic lights and if you hit one you're screwed.


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## Sylvester3 (15 Sep 2009)

I'm exceptionally careful around cyclists, having been one myself in the past. I always hold well back until it is clear to pass and try to give a cars width clearance where possible in the unlikely event they fall over under my wheels. 

Now the other day we were approaching a bend behind a pair of cyclists and I did my usual holding back position, waiting for the bend so I could see if the road was clear. The cyclists, already at the bend, and presumably in the position to see around it, waved me on. I pulled out.... straight into the path of an oncoming car. I swore loudly, much to the surprise of my in-laws in the back seat (who would never have heard anything like that from me before) and swerved back in again. Idiots obviously didn't have any road sense at all and just didn't want me behind them even if I was being careful!!


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## bamboozle (15 Sep 2009)

having cycled to work for years i've found 95% of car drivers are ok (parents with kids on way to school only problem) taxi's generally are fine, Dublin Bus Drivers are generally ignorant to cyclists and seem to like nothing better than to pull out in front of us.


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## Pique318 (15 Sep 2009)

As a driver I hate pedestrians and as a pedestrian I hate drivers, but no matter what the mode of transportation, I always hate cyclists.


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## Guest116 (15 Sep 2009)

I hate when cyclists come up the side of you and park their bike right in front of your car at traffic lights. This means I cant take off as quickly as I like as I have to wait for the cyclist to start moving.

Why do they do that?


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## Sylvester3 (15 Sep 2009)

aristotle25 said:


> I hate when cyclists come up the side of you and park their bike right in front of your car at traffic lights. This means I cant take off as quickly as I like as I have to wait for the cyclist to start moving.
> 
> Why do they do that?



Oh, right you didn't know? They are waiting for you to give them a shunt to help boost them along at the start. I thought everyone did that?


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## Guest116 (15 Sep 2009)

51 year old cyclist killed in Dublin city centre this morning. RIP

http://www.rte.ie/news/2009/0915/rta.html


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## Sylvester3 (15 Sep 2009)

Did you do that to make my joke poor taste?


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## Diziet (15 Sep 2009)

aristotle25 said:


> I hate when cyclists come up the side of you and park their bike right in front of your car at traffic lights. This means I cant take off as quickly as I like as I have to wait for the cyclist to start moving.
> 
> Why do they do that?




Most junctions have a specific area for cyclists to do exactly that. It is far safer for the cyclist (because they are very visible)and does not really slow down the motorist overall. I am sure you would not arrive at your destination any faster. Most statistics on city driving show a very low average speed for motorists.


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## Guest116 (15 Sep 2009)

Sylvester3 said:


> Did you do that to make my joke poor taste?


 
No sorry, just thought I would post it as it might be relevant.


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## Diziet (15 Sep 2009)

Jim Davis said:


> My advice is to stay off the road. I dont have much sympathy for cyclists, they dont pay tax or insurance, they fly in and out of cars, swerve all over the road, pay no heed to traffic lights and if you hit one you're screwed.



Very educated advice altogether. The mind boggles. As a cyclist (and driver who has no problem with giving cyclists a bit of space) I would have thought that the more people cycle, the less congested and polluted out cities will be. If you object to paying tax and insurance, then you can always sell the car. It is your choice to own one.

The OP should accept that some people behave badly (most are OK) and ride a bit defensively. No point in responding to road rage.


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## Guest116 (15 Sep 2009)

Diziet said:


> Most junctions have a specific area for cyclists to do exactly that. It is far safer for the cyclist (because they are very visible)and does not really slow down the motorist overall. I am sure you would not arrive at your destination any faster. Most statistics on city driving show a very low average speed for motorists.


 
But they could just as easily stay at the front left of my car rather than in front of it?


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## damson (15 Sep 2009)

In many cases it may be a deliberate move to prevent left-turning cars cutting them up if they're cycling straight ahead. A bike on the left is very vulnerable to having cars turning left across their path, and this is a common cause of accidents. This risk can be reduced by moving into the centre of the lane: The car will then let them go straight ahead and turn left behind them.

Unfortunately, it's not possible to assume a car with no indicators signalling must be going straight. The type of driver who may cut a bike up is also the type who may not signal. So if the cyclist is going straight the safer position is in front (centre) of the car rather than to the left (safer than the front left).


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## Caveat (15 Sep 2009)

damson said:


> In many cases it may be a deliberate move to prevent left-turning cars cutting them up if they're cycling straight ahead. A bike on the left is very vulnerable to having cars turning left across their path, and this is a common cause of accidents. This risk can be reduced by moving into the centre of the lane: The car will then let them go straight ahead and turn left behind them.


 
+1.

I don't cycle much but when I do I would adopt this.  The many cars that don't bother indicating only add to the confusion/danger.


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## Guest128 (15 Sep 2009)

damson said:


> In many cases it may be a deliberate move to prevent left-turning cars cutting them up if they're cycling straight ahead. A bike on the left is very vulnerable to having cars turning left across their path, and this is a common cause of accidents.



Well in my experience cyclists arent that bothered by getting cut up. Usually when I am driving along with a cyclist say 20 yards behind me and I begin indicating left I find the cyclist has no problem whizzing up the inside of me, when they should actually stop and let me turn in, similar to if they were in a car.


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## Guest116 (15 Sep 2009)

damson said:


> In many cases it may be a deliberate move to prevent left-turning cars cutting them up if they're cycling straight ahead. A bike on the left is very vulnerable to having cars turning left across their path, and this is a common cause of accidents. This risk can be reduced by moving into the centre of the lane: The car will then let them go straight ahead and turn left behind them.


 
It doesnt explain why they do it at junctions where there are no left turns!


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## truthseeker (15 Sep 2009)

aristotle25 said:


> I hate when cyclists come up the side of you and park their bike right in front of your car at traffic lights. This means I cant take off as quickly as I like as I have to wait for the cyclist to start moving.
> 
> Why do they do that?


 
Ive done it for reasons mentioned above - not wanting to be cut off by a left turning car. 

On junctions with no left turn Ive done it because there simply isnt enough room between the pavement and the front left of cars at the top of the junction for me to take off safetly.

Surprised at the number of 'i hate cyclists' comments - would have assumed more cyclists = less road congestion - therefore happier drivers.


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## truthseeker (15 Sep 2009)

Jim Davis said:


> My advice is to stay off the road. I dont have much sympathy for cyclists, they dont pay tax or insurance, they fly in and out of cars, swerve all over the road, pay no heed to traffic lights and if you hit one you're screwed.


 
I have as much right to use the roads as anyone else, in case you were unaware, pedestrians and cyclists have right of way.


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## Guest116 (15 Sep 2009)

No, cyclists trump any positives gained from less congestion


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## Guest116 (15 Sep 2009)

truthseeker said:


> I have as much right to use the roads as anyone else, in case you were unaware, pedestrians and cyclists have right of way.


 
I didnt know cyclists have right of way? What does that mean in practice?


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## Staples (15 Sep 2009)

truthseeker said:


> Im just shocked at the behaviour of drivers on the road to cyclists - one of the roads I have to use is busy and has two different sets of roadworks, there is no choice for me but to cycle round the road works, while trying to stay safe and not have an accident due to the roadworks rubble spilling out onto the road edge!!
> 
> Anyone any advice on how to handle such incidents? Or how to avoid them in the first place when Im not actually doing anything I shouldnt be?


 
As a cyclist myself, I think the problem may be one of positioning.  When you encounter roadworks, you need to position yourself on the road well in advance.  It dangerous to cycle as far as the roadworks (or parked car, truck, etc) and then suddenly change direction.  You can't assume that drivers are anticipating your every move.  As far as they're concerned, you've suddenly swerved into their natural path and, depending on their leverl of alertness, they may have to take sudden evasive action.  

A smoother approach would be to move out earlier, cycling on the road itself rather than the cycle lane until the obstacle is passed and then moving swiftly back into in the bike lane when the obstacle is passed. 

I'd agree with the earlier OP who's said that 95% of car drivers are fine but some intolerance is to be expected.


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## Staples (15 Sep 2009)

Diziet said:


> Most junctions have a specific area for cyclists to do exactly that. It is far safer for the cyclist (because they are very visible)and does not really slow down the motorist overall.


 
On may junctions ther's an orange area in front of a junction that actively encourages cyclists to "fan out" to accommodate other cyclists who may be behind. 

I can assure you that the inconvenience a driver may be experiencing by having their progress delayed by two or three seconds is nothing compared to the discomfort of cyclist seeking to move away from such a position with a loud 48A bus just inches away from their jacksee!!


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## truthseeker (15 Sep 2009)

aristotle25 said:


> I didnt know cyclists have right of way? What does that mean in practice?


 
In practice it means that if you hit one - youre in trouble


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## truthseeker (15 Sep 2009)

Staples said:


> A smoother approach would be to move out earlier, cycling on the road itself rather than the cycle lane until the obstacle is passed and then moving swiftly back into in the bike lane when the obstacle is passed.


 

Thats what I did do - except there was no cycle lane.


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## Staples (15 Sep 2009)

truthseeker said:


> Thats what I did do - except there was no cycle lane.


 
Then that's all you can do.  If people can't see that, and /or don't have the manner to wait, there's not much you can do.


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## Ruam (15 Sep 2009)

aristotle25 said:


> It doesnt explain why they do it at junctions where there are no left turns!



As a cyclist I do it to slow down drivers like yourself who put cyclists and pedestrians at risk with quick take offs at junctions

Ruam


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## truthseeker (15 Sep 2009)

Staples said:


> Then that's all you can do. If people can't see that, and /or don't have the manner to wait, there's not much you can do.


 
Thanks Staples, thats pretty much what I thought, I am wearing hi vis gear and a brightly coloured helmet - I AM visible, but some people just have no patience.


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## Pique318 (15 Sep 2009)

Ruam said:


> As a cyclist I do it to slow down drivers like yourself who put cyclists and pedestrians at risk with quick take offs at junctions
> 
> Ruam


Are you a traffic cop ?


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## Guest116 (15 Sep 2009)

Staples said:


> Then that's all you can do. If people can't see that, and /or don't have the manner to wait, there's not much you can do.


 

What risk? There is a big empty road ahead of me and I do tend to use my eyes to see if the coast is clear.

I am not talking about trying to go 0-60mph in 5 seconds, I just want to take off a lot faster than a cyclist does!


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## Diziet (15 Sep 2009)

aristotle25 said:


> But they could just as easily stay at the front left of my car rather than in front of it?



They don't do it to deliberately annoy you! (if you choose to be annoyed that is your responsibility). They would be less visible if they adopt your preferred positioning. The advice for urban cycling is that when it comes to junctions and lights, you take up road space by positioning yourself as though you were a car. The reason for this is that the cyclist is clearly visible to the motorist, and most motorists would not simply run down a cyclist by choice. Positioning to the front left of the car at the lights undoes a lot of the visibility and puts the cyclist in a far more vulnerable position. I cycled in London for many years and I must say that cycling in Ireland is a piece of cake in comparison!

When I cycle, I don't set out to annoy motorists - I obey the rules of the road, wear hi visibility gear and have good lights. I am reasonably fit so can pull out quite quickly at lights. The problem is that some drivers think that cyclists have no place on the road and that is sadly an attitude problem I can do nothing about.

There are many, many incompetent drivers on Irish roads and I am sure there are incompetent cyclists too. At least the cyclists are more environmentally friendly and are less likely to kill people.


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## truthseeker (15 Sep 2009)

Diziet said:


> The problem is that some drivers think that cyclists have no place on the road and that is sadly an attitude problem I can do nothing about.


 
+1

Thats pretty much the attitude I experienced this morning.


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## liaconn (15 Sep 2009)

I agree that its down to individual attitudes.

There are some drivers who think they're entitled to bully cyclists off the road and just see them as an irritant getting in the way of their -more important- car.

There are also some cyclists who think its okay to veer thoughtlessy around cars, swerve suddenly off the pavement, break red lights and cycle on the wrong side of the road.

Basically, some drivers are ignorant idiots, some cyclists are ignorant idiots and the rest of us have, unfortunately, to put up with this.


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## orka (15 Sep 2009)

I'm fairly tolerant of cyclists but that sitting in front at traffic lights IS annoying. There's a junction near where I live which is fairly busy so you need the right filter to turn right - but it lasts hardly any time so if a cyclist makes the cars slow off the mark, we're lucky if the second car gets through - reeeeaallly annoying if you are five cars back....
And why do cyclists not use cycle lanes (separate, off the road ones) when they are available?
On the 'how to stay safe' question, I definitely think those reflectors on stalks that stick out about 12"-18" from the side of the bike make drivers give a bit more room.


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## truthseeker (15 Sep 2009)

orka said:


> And why do cyclists not use cycle lanes (separate, off the road ones) when they are available?


 
Mostly because they are afterthoughts and not uniform, so you find yourself on one for 100 metres, then it stops dead and you have to find a safe way to get back out on the road down the kerb in busy traffic OR carry on along a footpath and be a danger to pedrestrians.

But mostly (for me anyway), because they just dont exist for most of my route.


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## Staples (15 Sep 2009)

orka said:


> And why do cyclists not use cycle lanes (separate, off the road ones) when they are available?


 
Because many of them are dangerous and/or poorly maintained.  I'm told, for example, that the bike lanes adjacent to Fairview park get so overtaken by fallen leaves during Autumn/Winter that they become slippy and pot holes can't be seen/avoided.  

In these circumstances, it's actually less dangerous to slug it out with the traffic on the main road.


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## z107 (15 Sep 2009)

OP - it's a nice idea, cycling to work.

However, I would suggest just go back to driving. I tried cycling in Dublin once. I soon returned to driving, at least I'd have some hope in a collision.

I now live in rural Ireland and would never consider cycling. I was, however,  thinking of getting a bike using the new tax incentive, for use when I go on holidays to other countries.


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## Latrade (15 Sep 2009)

aristotle25 said:


> What risk? There is a big empty road ahead of me and I do tend to use my eyes to see if the coast is clear.
> 
> I am not talking about trying to go 0-60mph in 5 seconds, I just want to take off a lot faster than a cyclist does!


 
As others have said, you'll see that the road markings indicate the front as a space for cyclists. It's really a matter of getting over your need to gun it away from the lights.

I get just as frustrated with fellow new cyclists (especially the new batch you get every summer) as well as vehicles. Men determined to prove they're still as fit as they were 20 years ago and objecting strongly to being overtaken by me as they struggle up a hill. I can only apologise for being more able and having a faster bike.

I do think some cyclists could do more to make sure they're visible, but in the case of the OP, I experience this as well. I'm just not considered a road user. I have a patch of road where I have to cycle slightly out from where I normally would because near there are too many potholes. Cars still try to squeeze past if traffic is coming the other way or nealy clip cars on the other side while getting past me. 

If they were to wait it would be a significant dely of 45 seconds before I get the chance to pull in. 

I've given up getting too frustrated at near death experiences. I occasionally have a tumble as a result of one or two of the worst ones. Nothing major and a dusting off, but overall it's largely not too bad.


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## Guest116 (15 Sep 2009)

Latrade said:


> As others have said, you'll see that the road markings indicate the front as a space for cyclists. It's really a matter of getting over your need to gun it away from the lights.


 
To be clear I am talking about cyclists who pull the bike in front of the car when there are no road marking and sometimes no left turns either. I dont have any need to "gun it away", I just prefer to drive at my own pace and not that of a cyclist.


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## truthseeker (15 Sep 2009)

Latrade said:


> I do think some cyclists could do more to make sure they're visible, but in the case of the OP, I experience this as well. I'm just not considered a road user. I have a patch of road where I have to cycle slightly out from where I normally would because near there are too many potholes. Cars still try to squeeze past if traffic is coming the other way or nealy clip cars on the other side while getting past me.
> 
> If they were to wait it would be a significant dely of 45 seconds before I get the chance to pull in.


 
Im considering using a different route thats longer but has wider roads that are less busy, while I appreciate the constructive comments on this thread re being visible etc, the bottom line for me is that Id like to be safer.


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## so-crates (15 Sep 2009)

aristotle25 said:


> To be clear I am talking about cyclists who pull the bike in front of the car when there are no road marking and sometimes no left turns either. I dont have any need to "gun it away", I just prefer to drive at my own pace and not that of a cyclist.


 
The advice to cyclists is still the same. Ensure you are visible by placing yourself in front of the car not potentially in a blind spot. The box only formally recognises that it is best and safest practice that cyclists are in full view of the all too easily blind drivers. It isn't intentionally that most drivers hit cyclists. It is accidentally. And it is all too often because they just don't see a cyclist who is to their side and not in their field of view. It doesn't matter if there is a left turn or not. The cyclist is still the one in the greatest danger. (Think of the situation where some driver is planning to turn right and is not properly in their right hand turn box and a driver going straight just nips around to the left ....)


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## karlod (15 Sep 2009)

Ive been cycling into the city for 4 years now and not had any real incidents. Im pretty confidant on the road and generally don’t let cars own me on the road.
Ive observed everything mentioned above, drivers disregard an impatience for cyclists and cyclist with there head in the clouds weaving and basically acting like a pedestrian walking on the path. Both cause problems for each other and will do for a long time!!

I suppose my advice to the OP and to all cyclists is to make yourself OBVIOUS and PREDICTABLE on the road. Stay in a straight line close to the path for as long as possible. Look FAR ahead for obstruction (in this case the road works) and prepare for it. INDICATE early and pull out early and stay there. Don’t feel pressured to move back in because a car is coming. Then when past, move in. Use your head when it comes to this. Look around and be aware of your traffic surrounding. Take out the head phones (especially in the city)
Driver should try the same. Look ahead and don’t leave changing lanes and turning to the last minute. Again INDICATE before moving, especially on them left turns. 
WRT bikes at lights. It will take you an extra 2 seconds to get past the bike. Do you really need to gun it out of the lights?


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## orka (15 Sep 2009)

karlod said:


> WRT bikes at lights. It will take you an extra 2 seconds to get past the bike. Do you really need to gun it out of the lights?


If only it was just 2 seconds - then no-one reasonable would mind. But often across the junction is an oncoming queue of traffic waiting for the light to go green as well - and on narrow city (and suburban) streets, it can be a looong queue of traffic at certain times of the day. So if you don't get past the cyclist at the junction, you could be stuck behind them for ages with no hope of getting past because of constant oncoming traffic on a narrow road. I know it's not going to make my head explode having to wait but it is frustration like this that lead to impatience with cyclists. Haven't creamed anyone myself - just explaining the rationale for being peed off at the cyclist plonking himself at the front of the queue.


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## so-crates (15 Sep 2009)

Staples said:


> Because many of them are dangerous and/or poorly maintained. I'm told, for example, that the bike lanes adjacent to Fairview park get so overtaken by fallen leaves during Autumn/Winter that they become slippy and pot holes can't be seen/avoided.
> 
> In these circumstances, it's actually less dangerous to slug it out with the traffic on the main road.


 
Totally agree. Proper cycle lanes are all well and good but when you have cycle lanes in this country they are rarely properly maintained, of sufficient length and adequately separate from either pedestrian or vehicular traffic. Personal hates are those that are painted onto paths as these generally have a lower quality surface, have dips and hillocks for vehicle access, have pedestrians that saunter on them and have cross roads without the stop sign being on the correct side of the cycle track (so technically the car pulling out from the side road actually has precedence even though they are pulling from a side road to a main - the cycle track is not treated as if it is part of the main road so two cyclists would have different priority if they were one on the path and one on the road - had some friends knocked down at such stupid junctions). Oh and people do so like to park their cars in/on them. Also those phantom statistic adder-uppers which allow councils to declare having X km of cycle paths even if they are only in 100m sections. Or those cycle tracks which are simply a line painted on the side of the road without even the suggestion of a different colour surface to indicate a cycle lane.



orka said:


> If only it was just 2 seconds - then no-one reasonable would mind. But often across the junction is an oncoming queue of traffic waiting for the light to go green as well - and on narrow city (and suburban) streets, it can be a looong queue of traffic at certain times of the day. So if you don't get past the cyclist at the junction, you could be stuck behind them for ages with no hope of getting past because of constant oncoming traffic on a narrow road. I know it's not going to make my head explode having to wait but it is frustration like this that lead to impatience with cyclists. Haven't creamed anyone myself - just explaining the rationale for being peed off at the cyclist plonking himself at the front of the queue.


 
Think the only solution then orka is to "get on yer bike"


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## truthseeker (15 Sep 2009)

orka said:


> If only it was just 2 seconds - then no-one reasonable would mind. But often across the junction is an oncoming queue of traffic waiting for the light to go green as well - and on narrow city (and suburban) streets, it can be a looong queue of traffic at certain times of the day. So if you don't get past the cyclist at the junction, you could be stuck behind them for ages with no hope of getting past because of constant oncoming traffic on a narrow road. I know it's not going to make my head explode having to wait but it is frustration like this that lead to impatience with cyclists. Haven't creamed anyone myself - just explaining the rationale for being peed off at the cyclist plonking himself at the front of the queue.


 
Not being able to get past someone else on the road happens with a variety of other vehicles - not just cyclists, you can get stuck behind a tractor, bus, slow moving vehicle towing something etc. Whats the big rush? If you get that frustrated because of other road users then perhaps the answer is not to drive?


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## damson (15 Sep 2009)

orka said:


> And why do cyclists not use cycle lanes (separate, off the road ones) when they are available?


There are some that are widely used. The ones that aren't - it's usually because they're poorly designed, poorly maintained, full of pedestrians/street furniture/parked cars/glass.

Plenty of photos of Dublin's cycle tracks here and here.

Just a few examples specifically of off-road ones since they're the ones you asked about:

Nice slippy coating of mud and wet leaves in Fairview.
http://www.geocities.com/cyclopath2001/DCP01379.jpg

A considerate car driver at the Artane roundabout.
http://www.geocities.com/cyclopath2001/Dcp01168.jpg

Pedestrians and glass at Fairview.
http://www.geocities.com/cyclopath2001/Dcp01124.jpg

Some lamp posts so cyclists can practice their slalom skills in Clonskeagh.
http://www.geocities.com/cyclopath2001/clonskeagh1.jpg

Lamp post and bin in Glasnevin, with the potential bonus of bus passengers embarking/disembarking.
http://www.flickr.com/photos/joedrumgoole/366871140/in/set-72157594180677328/http://l.yimg.com/g/images/spaceball.gif


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## Ruam (15 Sep 2009)

Pique318 said:


> Are you a traffic cop ?



No but I am not doing anything illegal and if it slows down drivers all the better.

Ruam


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## BillK (15 Sep 2009)

No problem here in England with cyclists on the road; they're usually on the footpath.


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## micmclo (15 Sep 2009)

aristotle25 said:


> I hate when cyclists come up the side of you and park their bike right in front of your car at traffic lights. This means I cant take off as quickly as I like as I have to wait for the cyclist to start moving.
> 
> Why do they do that?



It's been said already. To stop drivers taking off quickly and then taking an immediate left turn. The worst place they can be is in a blind spot. Before every left turn a motorycyclist is trained to do a "lifesaver" and this is a check over their shoulder. You have a wing mirror, do you check also? If you do, you're one of the few. Most cyclist fatalities are caused by vehicles turning left with a cyclist on the inside.
I cycle but more reguarly use a moped. And I'd use the same tactic of stopping in front of a car in both cases.
Besides I find many car drivers are practically asleep at the wheel and have little awareness. 
Outside the cocoon of your car you learn the traffic light sequences and I can be already across the junction when the lights turn green and you're only engaging first gear.



bamboozle said:


> having cycled to work for years i've found 95% of car drivers are ok (parents with kids on way to school only problem) taxi's generally are fine, Dublin Bus Drivers are generally ignorant to cyclists and seem to like nothing better than to pull out in front of us.



Realy, I find Dublin Bus drivers to be excellent and they are probably the most highly trained drivers in the city.
As for taxi's and for drivers with their little precious in the back seat and baby on board stickers. Couldn't care less about me or anyone else 
Yeah that's a stereotype but you used one yourself.



Jim Davis said:


> My advice is to stay off the road. I dont have much sympathy for cyclists, they dont pay tax or insurance, they fly in and out of cars, swerve all over the road, pay no heed to traffic lights and if you hit one you're screwed.



Tax you say.
Motorists pay motor tax, hence www.motortax.ie
Or any you one of the many people I see on this site ranting about "road tax" 

Motor tax is based on emmisions and as cyclists produces no emmissions during a commute, they pay the correct rate of zero


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## karlod (16 Sep 2009)

micmclo said:


> Motor tax is based on emmisions and as cyclists produces no emmissions during a commute, they pay the correct rate of zero


 
Nice way of putting it


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## ollie323 (16 Sep 2009)

I cycle a little and plan on doing more. But i also have a car (my wife also) and drive to work so i pay plenty of taxes. Am i to be lumped in with all the cyclists that don't have cars?


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## truthseeker (16 Sep 2009)

Took some of the good advice on this thread this morning, especially that of positioning on the road, giving plenty of time to go around the roadworks I pass. I also availed of more of the cycle lanes even though it meant chopping and changing from road to cycle lane frequently in some instances. 
The biggest change I made was taking a good look back as I approached an obstruction or narrow part of road and if there were a lot of cars behind me I hung back a little until they had passed so that I had the road a little more to myself to get past the worst areas.

As a result I had a less stressful cycle, with more work on my part to ensure I was not getting in the way, and a couple of waits to allow myself a clear run past the worst areas.

Thanks to all for the constructive advice.


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## liaconn (16 Sep 2009)

news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/...

Don't know if you've seen this.


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## Guest116 (16 Sep 2009)

liaconn said:


> news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/...
> 
> Don't know if you've seen this.


 
I like that a lot!


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## Paulone (17 Sep 2009)

Ah! The age old debate! Some good examples of the opinions on both sides here!

I wouldn't say that drivers are the worst - they are 100% better today than they were 10 odd years ago.

What I do think are the worst and even less predictable are the pedestrians - particularly the pedestrians who have returned to the road wearing school uniforms recently.

These usually travel in groups - the long haired, skirted ones have a habit of putting their face to the kerb edge and doing banshee screams at passing cyclists. The trouser-wearing grubbier ones tend to jump onto the cycle lane or road and wander there for a lot longer than they need to as cyclists (which they have seen) approach.

Why do they think verbal assault and/or obstruction are hilarious?


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## liaconn (17 Sep 2009)

Not to mention all the school kids tearing down the footpath on bicycles.


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## BillK (17 Sep 2009)

If only it was only schoolkids! (Some of whom, incidentally, are a lot bigger built than I am.)


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## so-crates (17 Sep 2009)

Walking (safely and with due consideration to all other road users!) this morning I met a man travelling in what to me seemed a classic example of everything dangerous... On a bike, on the footpath, turning from Appian Way onto Leeson Street heading towards Donnybrook (where the path is severely narrowed by a sizeable tree and sightlines around the corner are poor) with a dog on a leash in tow! At least the dog had short legs so he couldn't go too fast. 

Makes me despair. How can careful cyclists argue the toss when there are tossers like this undermining their arguments?


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## Paulone (18 Sep 2009)

If you had met him on the way back, he may well have been further destablised by a couple of ill-packed shopping bags over the handlebars - did he have brakes on the bike?

I went past a youngster furiously pedalling a small bmx style machine last week on which the brakes had no blocks at the rear and the cable detached at the front - he brought it to a noisy stop at a set of lights by putting his both feet on the ground and leaning fully backwards...  new set of trainers every three days I'd say!

We really, really need a formalised cycling proficiency programme in this country.


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## Latrade (18 Sep 2009)

so-crates said:


> Makes me despair. How can careful cyclists argue the toss when there are tossers like this undermining their arguments?


 
In the same way that drivers can argue the toss that the small number of idiotic drivers do not represent every driver.

However, the potential consequences of the idiotic driver are far more severe and common than that of a cyclist.


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## Complainer (18 Sep 2009)

Jim Davis said:


> I dont have much sympathy for cyclists, they dont pay tax


Really? Do you check their Revenue status as they fly past you when you are stuck in traffic? 

Here's a shocker - most of them do pay tax. A good number of them pay motor tax, just like you, but they don't have time to wait around stuck in traffic. A few of them pay more tax than you, because they have better jobs and/or bigger cars. But the tax issue is a red herring - there is no mention of tax in the rules of the road.



aristotle25 said:


> What risk? There is a big empty road ahead of me and I do tend to use my eyes to see if the coast is clear.
> 
> I am not talking about trying to go 0-60mph in 5 seconds, I just want to take off a lot faster than a cyclist does!



If there is a big empty road ahead of you, you'll have no problem overtaking the cyclist within a few seconds. So perhaps you need to dig deeper to see what's bugging you. Is there perhaps some inbuilt resentment that somebody else has just got ahead of you?



aristotle25 said:


> To be clear I am talking about cyclists who pull the bike in front of the car when there are no road marking and sometimes no left turns either. I dont have any need to "gun it away", I just prefer to drive at my own pace and not that of a cyclist.



Perhaps you should consider private roads, so you can drive at your own pace all the time. Do you get narked when you come up behind another car/truck/motorbike in traffic and you have to drive at their pace?



Paulone said:


> What I do think are the worst and even less predictable are the pedestrians - particularly the pedestrians who have returned to the road wearing school uniforms recently.
> 
> These usually travel in groups - the long haired, skirted ones have a habit of putting their face to the kerb edge and doing banshee screams at passing cyclists. The trouser-wearing grubbier ones tend to jump onto the cycle lane or road and wander there for a lot longer than they need to as cyclists (which they have seen) approach.
> 
> Why do they think verbal assault and/or obstruction are hilarious?


There are a few options here. It would be easy enough to cycle round past them, and then take their picture on your phone. Send it off to the school principal and let them know the fine example that their little darlings are giving on the street. Or consider getting to know the biking and/or community garda at your station, and find a way to get him/her involved.



umop3p!sdn said:


> OP - it's a nice idea, cycling to work.
> 
> However, I would suggest just go back to driving. I tried cycling in Dublin once. I soon returned to driving, at least I'd have some hope in a collision.


This is fatalistic nonsense. The more people cycle, the safer cycling gets. Get on yer bike and leave the cars stuck in traffic. Stay well away from trucks and your chance of serious injury is minimal.


umop3p!sdn said:


> I now live in rural Ireland and would never consider cycling. I was, however, thinking of getting a bike using the new tax incentive, for use when I go on holidays to other countries.


This would be tax fraud. The cycle-to-work scheme is for cycling to work, funnily enough.



orka said:


> If only it was just 2 seconds - then no-one reasonable would mind. But often across the junction is an oncoming queue of traffic waiting for the light to go green as well - and on narrow city (and suburban) streets, it can be a looong queue of traffic at certain times of the day. So if you don't get past the cyclist at the junction, you could be stuck behind them for ages with no hope of getting past because of constant oncoming traffic on a narrow road. I know it's not going to make my head explode having to wait but it is frustration like this that lead to impatience with cyclists. Haven't creamed anyone myself - just explaining the rationale for being peed off at the cyclist plonking himself at the front of the queue.


There are few enough city streets where there isn't room for a car to comfortably pass a cyclist. Perhaps you should be peed off at the parked cars taking up all that space, or the cars coming the other direction etc. Why pick on the cyclist?

But back to the OP, it is great to hear that the excellent advice that you got about 'taking the lane' worked. Assertive cycling is essential in cities for your own protection. Get the John Franklin book 'Cyclecraft' from your local library for great guidance on safe cycling.


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## truthseeker (19 Sep 2009)

Complainer said:


> Get the John Franklin book 'Cyclecraft' from your local library for great guidance on safe cycling.


 
Thanks for the tip - will look it up!


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