# Shannon-Heathrow



## PMI (7 Oct 2007)

I admit I am from the Midwest so I may be somewhat biosed but I have to illustrate my disappointment at the Government's attitude to the problem. I am not going to go into the problems this discision will create, suffice to say that it will be catistrophic for the Region.
Why did the Government keep their 25% + share holding. Maybe it is to save the Dublin and Cork Heathrow slots in the future.
I'm particularly disappointed with the performance (or lack of) the total group of Midwest FF TDs. They were all talk when the announcement was made but alas, the brave words did not turn to action when they were required. I was disgusted with Willie O'Dea who did not even bother to attend the debate in the Dail but was able to crawl out to vote against the interest of his constituents. They say that they were satisfied with what Bertie and Co. were going to do in finding a replacement service, but surely the news from BMI today puts that in trouble.
The Midwest TDs did not stand up to be counted when they were most needed. They were most likely afraid of a backlash from the party. Surely as a group, there would have been safety in numbers.
I ask all the people of Clare, Limerick, Galway, Tipperary, and Tralee come out now and let these people know who put them in their jobs and most importantly, why they put them there.


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## ClubMan (7 Oct 2007)

PMI said:


> I admit I am from the Midwest so I may be somewhat biosed


You mean you have PC firmware controlling your thoughts?


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## PMI (7 Oct 2007)

I thought it may have been spelled wrong but I would have also thought that spelling was not important on this or any other site. You obviously know all about computers.
I'm sorry but I thought the issues were more important then spelling.


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## Purple (7 Oct 2007)

If Aer Lingus is to be run as a commercial air line then I see no problem with them taking a commercial decision. The fact that no other carrier is willing to step into their shoes just shows that they made the correct decision.
That said I do think that there should be government support for Shannon airport and it should try to attract other carriers into Shannon with discounted landing charges etc.
I'm from Dublin so I am probably biased but I resent having to spend two hours in Shannon at 4 in the morning on my way back from America just to subsidise a regional airport. I pay taxes so that the government can subsidise infrastructure that would not otherwise be viable, a subsidy that I support, but the people of Shannon and the surrounding area should accept that no commercial airline will use their most valuable landing slots to fly from there.
I do not think that airports should be run to make a profit, just as trains should not; they provide an essential infrastructural function.


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## PMI (7 Oct 2007)

I accept your argument with regards to commercial airlines making a profit although I fail to see the difference with trains.  However, the Heathrow -Shanon route was profitable and may very well turn out to have been more profitable then the Belfast route.  I don't believe that this change was a commercial decision.  It was a political one, probably part and parcel of the Belfast agreement.  Did you notice that Paisley's photo call on the day of the announcement at the same time as the Irish ministers said they knew nothing and were shocked.  Other airlines were not prepared to step in but some of them said that they could not do so at such short notice.

I do agree that you should not have to wait for 2 hours in Shannon on route to the US. but the same thing sometimes happens to Shannon passengers in reverse.  That is the present position, no need to go back years to make a current point.  The truth is that there is business for individual direct flights from Dublin and Shannon to the US.

Getting back to the original problem.  The Government, rightly or wrongly kept 25+% of Aer Lingus shares.  According to the then Minister of Transport, Martin Cullen, they kept them to protect regional interests and particularly the Heathrow slots out of Dublin, Cor and Shannon.  Have you heard anything from Mr. Cullen recently on the matter.

Earlier on in the year Aer Lingus issued a new time table for Cork Airport and one of the Heathrow flights had mysteriously disappeared.  This was aggressaively queried and the flight suddenly reapeared on the time table.  Aer Lingus say that this was an error, but could it be that Mr. Martin intervened.


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## Purple (7 Oct 2007)

I don't think it was political, I think it was commercial. I think that the government should not have sold Aer Lingus but when they did they should have sold it all. The way things are not they have the worst of both worlds.
If the government want flights from Shannon to Heathrow then they should make it commercially attractive for commercial air lines to provide them.
Belfast has a larger population pool, so it does make sense to grow it as a hub. The fact they Shannon was profitable is irrelevant, the fact is that it has to be more attractive than Belfast, which, it seems, it is not.


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## PMI (7 Oct 2007)

I accept your argument with regards to commercial airlines making a profit although I fail to see the difference with trains.  However, the Heathrow -Shanon route was profitable and may very well turn out to have been more profitable then the Belfast route.  I don't believe that this change was a commercial decision.  It was a political one, probably part and parcel of the Belfast agreement.  Did you notice that Paisley's photo call on the day of the announcement at the same time as the Irish ministers said they knew nothing and were shocked.  Other airlines were not prepared to step in but some of them said that they could not do so at such short notice.

I do agree that you should not have to wait for 2 hours in Shannon on route to the US. but the same thing sometimes happens to Shannon passengers in reverse.  That is the present position, no need to go back years to make a current point.  The truth is that there is business for individual direct flights from Dublin and Shannon to the US.

Getting back to the original problem.  The Government, rightly or wrongly kept 25+% of Aer Lingus shares.  According to the then Minister of Transport, Martin Cullen, they kept them to protect regional interests and particularly the Heathrow slots out of Dublin, Cor and Shannon.  Have you heard anything from Mr. Cullen recently on the matter.

Earlier on in the year Aer Lingus issued a new time table for Cork Airport and one of the Heathrow flights had mysteriously disappeared.  This was aggressaively queried and the flight suddenly reapeared on the time table.  Aer Lingus say that this was an error, but could it be that Mr. Martin intervened.


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## ashambles (7 Oct 2007)

Government statements indicate that ministers/TDs had no idea of how little power they had as a minority share holder or even how public companies operate. For Ryanair it helpfully meant once they got over 20% of the shares no other company could realistically hope to takeover Aer Lingus.

Shannon is is a throwback to when airplanes had more limited flying ranges - now an airport 20 miles east of Limerick would make more economic sense, it could even be put on our rail "network". If Shannon-Heathrow  was sufficently profitable companies would be fighting to open their own Heathrow route - they evidently are not. 

Why don't some of the businessmen complaining club together and open up a route - starting an airline is easier than starting many other businesses - making money out of it is another thing. As an example some Cork business men set up their own airline a few years ago -  the friendly semi-state Aer Lingus crushed every route they tried by opening their own competing service.


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## PMI (7 Oct 2007)

I think you are missing the point. Ryanair has plenty of daily flights from Shannon to London. (Stansted and Gatwick). The majority of the Aer Lingus passengers were travelling onwards to other European and World destinations. Unfortunately, Heathrow is THE major hub for this.

It's not as easy as you suggest to set up other flights into Heathrow as the slots are not available.

The fact still remains (rightly or wrongly) that the Government held on to the shares in AL to protect these slots for not only Shannon but Cork and Dublin as well.


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## Purple (8 Oct 2007)

PMI said:


> The fact still remains (rightly or wrongly) that the Government held on to the shares in AL to protect these slots for not only Shannon but Cork and Dublin as well.


 That's the thing, they were wrong to do this. Aer Lingus is either a commercial enterprise or it isn't. If the government didn't want them to make commercial decisions then they shouldn't have sold them off. As I have said I don't think they should have sold them but it's typical of Bertie's FF to do something like this.


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## shanegl (8 Oct 2007)

> If Aer Lingus is to be run as a commercial air line then I see no problem with them taking a commercial decision. The fact that no other carrier is willing to step into their shoes just shows that they made the correct decision.


 
I agree. If it was profitable, someone would have stepped in. Conspiracy theories about Aer Lingus giving up profitable routes to help the peace process don't stand up. These people are businessmen, not politicians, and have a duty to their shareholders.


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## ubiquitous (8 Oct 2007)

Its amazing to see the extent to which partitionism has shown its ugly face in this debate. Apparently the State should use all its muscle to protect the Mid-West from change. Those of us in the North-East who would stand to gain from this change apparently don't matter a damn.


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## MrKeane (8 Oct 2007)

ubiquitous said:


> Its amazing to see the extent to which partitionism has shown its ugly face in this debate. Apparently the State should use all its muscle to protect the Mid-West from change. Those of us in the North-East who would stand to gain from this change apparently don't matter a damn.


 
But there are already umpteen flights from Belfast and Dublin to LHR everyday - how will it benefit you?


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## ubiquitous (8 Oct 2007)

Its nothing to do with me personally - I haven't been in LHR for a decade and don't intend going there again unless I have to. 

My point is that improved transport links from the North East to LHR benefits the North-East in the same way that reduced transport links from the Mid West to LHR hurts the Mid-West. The negative coverage this subject is getting has totally failed to take into account the benefits to places like Dundalk and Monaghan. Its as if the North-East can go to hell once the Mid West is looked after.


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## MrKeane (8 Oct 2007)

ubiquitous said:


> Its nothing to do with me personally - I haven't been in LHR for a decade and don't intend going there again unless I have to.
> 
> My point is that improved transport links from the North East to LHR benefits the North-East in the same way that reduced transport links from the Mid West to LHR hurts the Mid-West. The negative coverage this subject is getting has totally failed to take into account the benefits to places like Dundalk and Monaghan. Its as if the North-East can go to hell once the Mid West is looked after.


 
How does this improve transport links from Dundalk to LHR?


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## ubiquitous (8 Oct 2007)

More flights and more competition between airlines.


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## PMI (8 Oct 2007)

The Nort East is not going to benefit from this move so I fail to get your point, the Midwest is going to lose. MrKeane is right in saying that there is already a no. of services from Belfast to Heathrow in existance. AL is now going to have to compete with these services. They had no competition to Heathrow from Shannon.

Wheather you like it or not, the Gov. was supposed to protect regional interest. (pre-election promise lol). There are a lot of jobs depending on this and there is a lot of proposed investment on hold. You may not believe this but are you prepared to chance. By the way, it's not only the people from the Midwest that do not agree with the AL pull out. Recent polls show that people from the East and North East are also in the majority against the move.

The fact remains that the Gov. held on to the shares in Aer Lingus to protect Regional interests (commercial or not). Lets see what they would do if the same happened to Cork or Dublin. 

No one has yet commented on the Paisley photo call at the same time as the Irish Ministers declared their ignorance on the matter.


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## MrKeane (8 Oct 2007)

ubiquitous said:


> More flights and more competition between airlines.


 
Its 75K from Dundalk to Dublin Airport and 100K to Belfast Airport, do you think there will be a lot of Dundalk people going out of their way to go to Belfast international airport for 3 expensive Aer Lingus flights a day instead of Dublin airport with far more frequent flights to all London Airports.

Miss your flight to / from Belfast international with Aer Lingus and you are waiting about 6 hours for the next one, miss your flight to / from Dublin and there will be another one in an hour or so.

There are probably over 100 flights between all Dublin / Belfast airports and all London airports every day, do you really think that 3 extra flights from farthest away Belfast will really benefit the people of Dundalk?

I doubt this will make a blind bit of difference to the people of Dundalk but if that is what you want to believe then I couldn't be bothered arguing with you over it.


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## ubiquitous (8 Oct 2007)

PMI said:


> The North East is not going to benefit from this move



So how come at least one FG TD (Seymour Crawford) has broken with his party's stance on the Shannon issue and publicly welcomed the Aer Lingus decision?


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## ubiquitous (8 Oct 2007)

MrKeane said:


> Its 75K from Dundalk to Dublin Airport and 100K to Belfast Airport, do you think there will be a lot of Dundalk people going out of their way to go to Belfast international airport for 3 expensive Aer Lingus flights a day instead of Dublin airport with far more frequent flights to all London Airports.



Well, I live 100 miles from Belfast International and 70 from Dublin Airport. I use Belfast whenever possible as it takes me less time to drive 100 miles up there than 70 miles through gridlock to get to Dublin.



MrKeane said:


> Miss your flight to / from Belfast international with Aer Lingus and you are waiting about 6 hours for the next one, miss your flight to / from Dublin and there will be another one in an hour or so.


Indeed, but this logic also applies against Shannon?


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## MrKeane (8 Oct 2007)

ubiquitous said:


> So how come at least one FG TD (Seymour Crawford) has broken with his party's stance on the Shannon issue and publicly welcomed the Aer Lingus decision?


 
Fishing for votes? 

Is your whole argument based on the opinion of a local politician?


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## ubiquitous (8 Oct 2007)

MrKeane said:


> Is your whole argument based on the opinion of a local politician?



No. Why do you ask? Is yours?


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## MrKeane (8 Oct 2007)

ubiquitous said:


> Well, I live 100 miles from Belfast International and 70 from Dublin Airport. I use Belfast whenever possible as it takes me less time to drive 100 miles up there than 70 miles through gridlock to get to Dublin.


I thought there was a motorway from Dundalk to Dublin now, and there is a mixed road from Dundalk to Belfast international.


ubiquitous said:


> Indeed, but this logic also applies against Shannon?


 But in Shannon there is no alternative. If I lived in Portlaoise, and I wanted to make an onward connection to the fareast then I would choose Dublin - LHR instead of Shannon - LHR.

Thats all that matters here, connectivity from Heathrow, and 3 extra flights from Belfast international will not make much difference.

People going to London for shopping / matches / pleasure tend to use Ryanair or Easijet anyway.


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## ubiquitous (8 Oct 2007)

MrKeane said:


> Fishing for votes?


Fwiw, the Anglo Celt in Cavan have also backed the Aer Lingus move in their editorials. I don't remember them ever standing for election.


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## ubiquitous (8 Oct 2007)

MrKeane said:


> ubiquitous said:
> 
> 
> > Well, I live 100 miles from Belfast International and 70 from Dublin Airport. I use Belfast whenever possible as it takes me less time to drive 100 miles up there than 70 miles through gridlock to get to Dublin.
> ...



Who said I'm from Dundalk?


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## MrKeane (8 Oct 2007)

ubiquitous said:


> Who said I'm from Dundalk?


 
Nobody said it, but you told us that it will benefit the people of Dundalk, in fact you even suggested that it will be to the advantage of the people of Dundalk by about the same amount as it will be to the disadvantage of the people from the midwest.

I doubt it will make any difference to the people of Dundalk because Dublin is closer and offers more connectivity.


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## ubiquitous (8 Oct 2007)

MrKeane said:


> , in fact you even suggested that it will be to the advantage of the people of Dundalk by about the same amount as it will be to the disadvantage of the people from the midwest.



Where did I say that?


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## MrKeane (8 Oct 2007)

ubiquitous said:


> My point is that improved transport links from the North East to LHR benefits the North-East in the same way that reduced transport links from the Mid West to LHR hurts the Mid-West


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## MrKeane (8 Oct 2007)

I still don't see how 3 flights a day will make any difference to the people of Dundalk.


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## ubiquitous (8 Oct 2007)

MrKeane said:


> _Originally Posted by ubiquitous  View Post
> My point is that improved transport links from the North East to LHR benefits the North-East in the same way that reduced transport links from the Mid West to LHR hurts the Mid-West_


My quote does not imply that the positive effect on the North East will outweigh the negative effect on the Mid West. To pretend otherwise is either disingenuous, self-serving or both.



MrKeane said:


> I still don't see how 3 flights a day will make any difference to the people of Dundalk.



My entire point relates to the North East as a region, not just Dundalk, a place that happens to have better transport links than anywhere else in the North East and which stands to benefit less from the Belfast move than anywhere else in the North East. 

I suspect you are picking on Dundalk rather than Monaghan, Cavan & even Leitrim & Donegal (which aren't even in the North East), because you can't credibly argue that the new flights from Belfast won't benefit the people of these counties, as well as the people of Louth.


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## gebbel (8 Oct 2007)

ubiquitous said:


> Well, I live 100 miles from Belfast International and 70 from Dublin Airport. I use Belfast whenever possible as it takes me less time to drive 100 miles up there than 70 miles through gridlock to get to Dublin.


 
I know this is slightly off topic but I can`t get my head around how that is possible?


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## ubiquitous (8 Oct 2007)

It is a full 45 miles from Belfast International via the M1 & main Enniskillen road until I meet a traffic light (in Augher village, iirc). Also iirc, there are no "built up area" speed limits on this route either. Over repeated journeys, I find that I can do an average driving speed (within speed limits) on this stretch of road of approx 95 km/hr.

Don't get me started about the roads to and around Dublin...


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## MrKeane (8 Oct 2007)

ubiquitous said:


> I suspect you are picking on Dundalk rather than Monaghan, Cavan & even Leitrim & Donegal (which aren't even in the North East), because you can't credibly argue that the new flights from Belfast won't benefit the people of these counties, as well as the people of Louth.


 
In fairness you picked Dundalk, not me!


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## ubiquitous (8 Oct 2007)

ubiquitous said:


> ... failed to take into account the benefits to places like Dundalk and Monaghan.


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## pinkyBear (8 Oct 2007)

Initially I was very surprised at the move from Shannon - but we must remember belfast is also a major city in Ireland and at the moment there is only one carrier to Hethrow - this means it is very expensive to fly belfast to heathrow - £300 I was told by a friend - who often has to fly that route.

When you look at how smaller regional airports have done as a result of RyanAir flying in - tourism has flourished. 

While it is regreatable that the Heathrow direct link is gone - I think Shanon airport needs to focus on become a Low cost airport attracting low cost carriers, this inturn will boost incoming tourism. There have been numerous reports saying that while tourism has increased in Ireland it has dramaticaly decreased in the South of Ireland (I have family in the tourist trade). The introduction low ost destinations could improve this... 

I know there is more to the west than tourism but the Shanon management should not look back and mourne over what was - but take radical steps and change the business model.


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## PMI (8 Oct 2007)

I think you are just digging in and flogging a dead horse with your argument about Dundalk. I think you would be in the minority of the people in this area if you use Belfast over Dublin.

IS ANYBODY going to comment on the Gov. assurances of protecting these Heathrow slots for S, C & D airports. You may not agree with it but they DID promise this prior to the election. It was also given as a reason to hang on to the AL shares. Why are they not honouring this promise.


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## Purple (8 Oct 2007)

In fairness to Shannon it's the only place in Ireland where you can get a direct flight to or from Iraq


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## PMI (8 Oct 2007)

Purple

In a serious discussion, this was a cheap shot.


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## Purple (8 Oct 2007)

PMI said:


> Purple
> 
> In a serious discussion, this was a cheap shot.



You're right, apologies. It's not as if the last few posts have been off topic of anything.


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## ubiquitous (8 Oct 2007)

PMI said:


> I think you are just digging in and flogging a dead horse with your argument about Dundalk. I think you would be in the minority of the people in this area if you use Belfast over Dublin.



Fair enough so, but can you then explain why public figures in the North East have been loud in their support for the Aer Lingus move?


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## Purple (8 Oct 2007)

Purple said:


> You're right, apologies. It's not as if the last few posts have been off topic of anything.




By the way, did you mean that I should have mentioned the flights from Pakistan and Afghanistan with connecting flights to Cuba? You can’t get that anywhere else in Ireland either. 
The security checks are also a breeze; you can get a hatchet right up to the plane as well.


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## PMI (8 Oct 2007)

Purple

No need for an apology, I'm sure from reading your many posts that you were only lightening the discussion.

You are right, I started the thread and it certainly has gone off the point.

Still nobody has addressed my main point of the Governments committments.


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## MrKeane (8 Oct 2007)

ubiquitous said:


> Fair enough so, but can you then explain why public figures in the North East have been loud in their support for the Aer Lingus move?


 
For votes?

Of course it will benefit some people, the same as any new piece of infrastructure will benefit any area, be it a new hospital, railway line, hotel or whatever. However in this case I think the benefit will be small and no major improvement over whats available already in Dublin and Belfast airports.

If this move results in a more frequent service from Shannon to one of the major hubs in Europe then that will do me fine.

There is another factor here too, Aer Lingus are way overstaffed in Shannon, they are way overpaid and the unions want to fight management every inch of the way. None of the politicians will mention this but thats the root of the problem.


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## MrKeane (8 Oct 2007)

PMI said:


> Purple
> 
> 
> Still nobody has addressed my main point of the Governments committments.


 
They need to break the unions in Shannon or Aer Lingus are doomed anyway, thats my opinion.


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## Purple (8 Oct 2007)

PMI said:


> Purple
> 
> No need for an apology, I'm sure from reading your many posts that you were only lightening the discussion.
> 
> ...


I thought I did that; 
They were wrong to give such commitments and rather than being honest about it that have damaged their own credibility even further. In my opinion they should not have sold off Aer Lingus but having done so they can't ham-string it by exerting political pressure when the company tries to make a commercial decision.
Shannon should stop trying to be a major international airport; the population is not there for it to serve. It is a regional airport and has to accept the limitations that this brings. The situation in Shannon up until now has been totally artificial, what happens in the future will be commercially driven.


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## Guest127 (8 Oct 2007)

Notice my  previous post was deleted. All I really stated was that Shannon does not have a given right to a Shannon/Heathrow connection. No more than Aer Lingus have a right to exist. Both have to maximise their positions and in A/L case they have made a decision to open a Belfast Int./Heathrow run. afaik the only flights to Heathrow are from the city airport and not from the international airport. On the North East angle . I am from Dundalk. and would much _prefer _to use Belfast. harder to get to admittedly but you park in close proximity to the terminal building and its much less crowded etc. However it is usually much cheaper to use Dublin airport so I just put up with the car parking miles away and awful crowding etc. Belfast international is a pleasure in comparison, but usually more expensive,.( example dublin/leeds 8th december.ryanair, around €80  return including all taxes belfast/leeds (jet2) £93 return. Presumably Aer Lingus have done their homework and intend to charge what the market will bear. and no doubt their markup will be greater than they were able to extract from Shannon.


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## michaelm (8 Oct 2007)

The Government didn't spot the loop hole through which Aer Lingus moved the Shannon-Heathrow slots (in addition to not anticipating a Ryanair takeover), they should have demanded a u-turn and given the Board a kicking.  Really they should just sell off the 25% now as it's pointless holding on to it.  

The Shannon problems shouldn't be surprising as the Government tend to mess up and then patch up everything they do.  They didn't foresee that when they sold Eircom there would be a dearth of investment in broadband infrastructure, that the Belfast agreement would lead to a flood of non-nationals from all over the world landing here in the final days of pregnancy to secure an EU passport for their offspring, that electronic voting cannot work, that super-trucks wouldn't fit in the port-tunnel (really they should have just moved the port north of Dublin and saved time and money), the M50 & West-Link mess, they built two LUAS lines which don't connect, all this PPP nonsense . . 

. . really the list of wasteful and incorrect decisions is endless with the Aer Lingus sell-off being just one of the more recent on a never ending list (it's Laurel and Hardy stuff - can't help whistling the tune as I type) - anyway, enough.


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## ubiquitous (8 Oct 2007)

michaelm said:


> ... that the Belfast agreement would lead to a flood of non-nationals from all over the world landing here in the final days of pregnancy to secure an EU passport for their offspring


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## pinkyBear (8 Oct 2007)

> Really they should just sell off the 25% now as it's pointless holding on to it.


I disagree - if the government have a 25% shareholding doesn't that mean as shareholders we profit (as in the monies issued to shareholders) - as this money is going into the country's coffers doesn't this mean that any profits from Aer Lingus can be included as part of income for the government to use to invest in pensions/ roads etc...


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## Sunny (8 Oct 2007)

PMI said:


> Still nobody has addressed my main point of the Governments committments.


 

The government was naive when making those committments. As far as I know they have the power to block AL from selling their slots at Heathrow but do not have the power to block the company from relocating slots to different bases i.e. there is nothing to stop Aer Lingus from from moving the slots currently used in Cork to Dublin. They just never saw this coming.

Personally I don't see why everyone is so hung up on using Heathrow as a gateway to the rest of the world. As a regular flier, I go out of my way to use other cities like Paris and Amsterdam for long haul flights. Shannon should spend its time and money enticing airlines to fly to these airports and let Ryanair service people wanting to fly to London from Shannon.

The fact that BMI decided not to enter the route despite what I am sure were very attractive enticements shows that the route is probably not as economically attractive as people claim. Having said all that I do think it is shame that Aer Lingus made the decision especially if we are looking to grow Ireland's regions.


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## michaelm (8 Oct 2007)

ubiquitous said:


>


See _Jus Soli_ and the Irish Constitution. A Government created mess that required a referendum to fix.


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## Purple (9 Oct 2007)

michaelm said:


> See _Jus Soli_ and the Irish Constitution. A Government created mess that required a referendum to fix.


 Then and now I fully supported these changes. Do we want to be like that most morally reprehensible of countries Switzerland where guest workers can have children and those children can live all their lives in the country of their birth but not be entitled to citizenship? The day we sink to the level of the Swiss, the international repository for blood money and financier of genocide, is the day I pack up and leave.


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## Sunny (9 Oct 2007)

Purple said:


> The day we sink to the level of the Swiss, the international repository for blood money and financier of genocide, is the day I pack up and leave.


 
Good chocolate though!


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## Purple (9 Oct 2007)

Sunny said:


> Good chocolate though!


True. It does lead to tooth decay but I suppose they can use all those gold fillings they picked up during the Second World War...


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## Caveat (9 Oct 2007)

Purple said:


> True. It does lead to tooth decay but I suppose they can use all those gold fillings they picked up during the Second World War...


 
Oh now! controversial!!


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## Purple (9 Oct 2007)

Caveat said:


> Oh now! controversial!!


You're right, it is not an accurate statement at all; the Nazi's melted them down and made them into bars before they gave them to the Swiss.


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## Caveat (9 Oct 2007)

Purple said:


> You're right, it is not an accurate statement at all; the Nazi's melted them down and made them into bars before they gave them to the Swiss.


 
Ah the _Lindt Golden Crunch_...


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## Jock04 (9 Oct 2007)

Caveat said:


> Ah the _Lindt Golden Crunch_...


 

Ewwww


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## PMI (12 Oct 2007)

I know a thread fizzels out eventually but going from what is a serious issue for people in the Midwest to Nazis and belgian chocklate is rediculas.  Where are the mods.


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## Purple (12 Oct 2007)

PMI said:


> I know a thread fizzels out eventually but going from what is a serious issue for people in the Midwest to Nazis and belgian chocklate is rediculas.  Where are the mods.


Firstly; the fact is that Shannon airport exists in its current form for political reasons only. There are no economic and very few social reasons for a major international airport in Shannon. Cork is our second city and should have the trans-Atlantic flights. The next in line should be Galway.

Secondly; there is nothing funny about the Swiss


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