# Why do some people still want to be paid by cheque?



## Brendan Burgess (10 Mar 2012)

I ordered a book from a book dealer and asked him to send me his bank account details so I could transfer the money directly. He said that he wanted a cheque. I said that I wanted to pay directly into his bank account. I got the following explanation: 



> Sorry Brendan but I don't give bank  details to anybody!!!!
> Bank draft or money order is the only other alternative.



This strikes me as very odd for a few reasons. 

He is obviously concerned that someone with his bank details could somehow manage to extract money from his account. But how could they do this? It's not easy to get set up with a direct debit facility with your bank. You have to meet very high standards. So people don't use it to defraud people. If there is a dispute over a direct debit, the bank reverses it immediately. If some organisation was doing it fraudulently, they would lose the authorisation immediately. 

But he wants me to send a cheque? So if I send him a cheque, he will have my bank details! So if there is some way of defrauding people when you know their bank account, he could defraud me. 

And, of course, every time he sends someone a cheque himself, he is sending them his bank account details, so saying "Sorry Brendan but I don't give bank  details to anybody!!!!" is incorrect, unless he doesn't ever pay by cheque himself. 

*Paying by bank transfer is much safer than cheque* *for the seller
*He will see the money arrive in his bank account and then it can never be taken out again. 

If I send him a cheque, it may well bounce any time over the next few weeks, long after he has sent me the book.

Am I missing something?


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## Purple (10 Mar 2012)

Brendan Burgess said:


> Am I missing something?



No, the book seller is.


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## serotoninsid (10 Mar 2012)

Brendan Burgess said:


> Am I missing something?


No - got this last year when paying a small sum to a firm of solicitors - cheque only.  Like you I asked to transfer directly but they wouldn't have it - much to my annoyance.  As I don't have a cheque book, I had to go and get a bankers draft.  

I thought the whole thing was backward.  Not only did I have to make a point of going to a bank,  but queue up to get the draft, paying a fee for the draft, then posting the draft.

Had to do this on two separate occasions.  Some businesses really have their heads in the sand!


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## Jonny (10 Mar 2012)

This practice is totally regressive but unfirtuantely its not uncommon.
Recently asked a client for bank details to facilitate the payment of a revenue refund & met the same attitude as above  Its annoying,obstructive,cumbersome,slow,expensive etc but at the end of the day I suppose its the individuals own choice...


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## jonocon (10 Mar 2012)

It's obvious he wants the cheque so he can get the local pub to cash it and it never goes into his bank account, this way he doesn't have to show the sale in his books, of course he may get caught but the money is one step away from him. Pubs and the like aren't allowed cash cheques but it still happens. Fact.


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## Brendan Burgess (10 Mar 2012)

jonocon said:


> It's obvious he wants the cheque so he can get the local pub to cash it and it never goes into his bank account, this way he doesn't have to show the sale in his books,.



Possibly. I doubt it. I would guess it's just cenophobia. 

Brendan


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## tech3 (10 Mar 2012)

Are you saying its 100% safe for me to give my bank details to anyone who would like to pay me by bank transfer. ?


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## Mrs Vimes (10 Mar 2012)

Here is how you can be scammed by giving out your bank details.

As you said though Brendan, they are on every cheque you write.


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## Time (10 Mar 2012)

> If there is a dispute over a direct debit, the bank reverses it immediately.


Not in my vast experience. They tell you to sort it out yourself.


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## Wishes (10 Mar 2012)

Last year my sister needed a website for her small business.  She wanted payments to be placed directly into her account and wanted her account details mentioned on the site.  

The web designer told her a load of horror stories about scams etc.  She listened to him and now only accepts cheques!  Half of the time the cheques bounce!  It's absolutely crazy.


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## Jim2007 (10 Mar 2012)

In Ireland and the UK banks are willing to accept requests from third parties to set up direct debits, so long as the requester has sufficient details about the account.  Here in Switzerland and most of mainland Europe this is not possible as direct debits are rare and can only be set up by the account holder usually in writing.  So while most EU citizens can happily give out their IBAN, Irish/UK account holders need to be more careful.


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## ang1170 (10 Mar 2012)

Brendan Burgess said:


> He is obviously concerned that someone with his bank details could somehow manage to extract money from his account. But how could they do this? It's not easy to get set up with a direct debit facility with your bank. You have to meet very high standards. So people don't use it to defraud people. If there is a dispute over a direct debit, the bank reverses it immediately
> 
> But he wants me to send a cheque? So if I send him a cheque, he will have my bank details! So if there is some way of defrauding people when you know their bank account, he could defraud me.
> 
> ...


 
Yes, you are. Giving someone your bank account details you don't know or trust is leaving yourself open to being defrauded. Plenty of people will insist this can't happen, but it does (most notoriously, to Jeremy Clarkson).

Yes, cheques do have the same details on them, but there's a big different to paying someone you know/trust by cheque and handing out your details to some random person (no offence!) who could be anyone.

Unless and until banks tighten up their procedures, you should be extremely careful about who you hand out details to.

I assume some some people just find it easier to give a blanket "no" to everyone, rather than trying to establish who they will trust not only as an indiviual, but trust that they will keep the details completely confidential.


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## markpb (11 Mar 2012)

ang1170 said:


> Plenty of people will insist this can't happen, but it does (most notoriously, to Jeremy Clarkson).



In fairness, Jeremy Clarkson was signed up to a DD+ by a charity who were authorized as DD+ originators. It wasn't some randomer who took money from his account.


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## Crugers (11 Mar 2012)

Brendan Burgess said:


> … If there is a dispute over a direct debit, the bank reverses it immediately.


The wording is “If it is *established *that an unauthorised direct debit was charged to your account, you are guaranteed an immediate refund by your bank”. My underlining emphasis!
Established to whose satisfaction?
From posts on AAM it is clear that sometimes it takes a lot more than a quick phone call to get matters sorted. And sometimes, as TIME said, the bank likes to tell you to sort it out yourself! Completely wrong of course but it can be hard to ‘tell’ bankers how they should do their job!



Brendan Burgess said:


> Am I missing something?


No but he might be!
Maybe you could tell him that when you ask your bank for a copy of the cashed/lodged cheque that you are sending him – that you will be able to identify his bank, branch and account number from it! Not possible in all cases but…


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## Brendan Burgess (11 Mar 2012)

markpb said:


> In fairness, Jeremy Clarkson was signed up to a DD+ by a charity who were authorized as DD+ originators. It wasn't some randomer who took money from his account.



I think that is the Key Point. If some randomer gets your bank details, the worst that they can do is to set up a direct debit to a charity or some other authorised Direct Debit originator. 

This is not the same as giving your credit card details to some dodgy website. 

They downside of cheques is that they can bounce for a very long time after you thought you had the funds. The downside of a direct payment is that some prankster might set up a direct debit to a worthwhile charity which you can get reversed. 

I have heard of no cases where someone has been defrauded by handing out the bank account number - unless you include Jeremy Clarkson.


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## dewdrop (11 Mar 2012)

I seem to recall in the long distant past that people often had difficulty in finding out who made the payment direct into their bank account. Usually the narrative that appeared on their bank statment was c/t (credit transfer) and perhaps from a bookeeping aspect it was easier to monitor debtor collection by getting a cheque.   No doubt things have changed.


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## Gervan (11 Mar 2012)

Dewdrop, things haven't changed much. With a cheque, you know exactly who the deposit is from, but with a direct lodgement it depends on what sort of reference the payer applies. It can be a time-consuming guessing game to determine who made the lodgement.


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## Lightning (11 Mar 2012)

Gervan said:


> Dewdrop, things haven't changed much. With a cheque, you know exactly who the deposit is from, but with a direct lodgement it depends on what sort of reference the payer applies. It can be a time-consuming guessing game to determine who made the lodgement.



To help limit this, when asking a person to make an online wire transfer, instruct them to use a unique code. 

Many invoice instructions these days, have a unique code or reference that they ask the payer to apply when making a online wire instruction.


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## bullworth (11 Mar 2012)

Why can't banks provide the facility of special accounts which only accept deposits but are banned from accepting withdrawals, kind of like a sandbox ?
Before some wiseguy asks me how does the owner of the account make any withdrawals, my solution would be for it to be permitted to transfer the money between this restricted account and another in the same name held in the same branch from which withdrawals could be hence made. How would it cost the bank anything as it's all electronic anyway ? It might save banks  a lot of money and resources which go into investigating fraud and whos responsibility it was.


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