# Surveyors report - can they tell a timber frame house.



## powerhouse (11 Feb 2011)

Apologies if this is in the wrong forum. 

Should a surveyor spot if a house is a timber frame house and include that in their report.

Are there instances where it is impossible to spot a timber frame house to a conventional build.

Thanks
PH


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## threebedsemi (13 Feb 2011)

It should be evident to a surveyor if the inner leaf of a dwelling house is constructed of blockwork or timber frame. Imo this information should certainly be mentioned in a condition report.


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## onq (13 Feb 2011)

There has been a growing amount of confusion in Surveying products, where you can have the following items offered to you in good faith:

- Surveyors Report
- Architects Inspection/Report.
- Structural Report
- Engineers Report
- Structural Engineer's Report

Only the first two persons are competent to comment in general, and therefore should be called in first.
A consulting engineer of any sort, whether structural, civil, mechanical or electrical is a specialist, and is usually recommended to be called in by the client/purchaser by the architect or surveyor if specialist knowledge is required.

In all cases, the report is looking for defects and so it is possible that reports on properties without evident defects may not address the method of construction or else may assume it is known on the part of the purchaser.
If the report is limited to "visual inspection only" it may be difficult to press for information on matters of consturction that are covered up.

In tems of assessment of a house it can be difficult to tell definitively from visual inspection of the surface of the inner leaf what its made from. This is because inner leaves of blockwork can insulated with warmboard, and this is basically a drywall plaster finish similr to what a timber frame gets finished in. The same detail can be used to turn the corner in openings leaving no visible sign of the nature of the beast.

The only sure way of knowing is to open up, and this can be costly, but there are observations which can be made which can help the inspecting professional form an opinion which may or may not lead to further opening up.

One non-invasive method of determining this [you don't have to demolish anything] is to inspect the outer elevation.

Many timber framed manufacturers require ventilation below the DPC at ground floor and just under the eaves/boxing in detail at roof level.
While there is nothing to stop a masonry wall having this detail, I have never seen it used except in the case of a timber framed house.
Don't confuse this detail with the superficially similar incidence of the open perpend joints that occur over ope heads as weep holes.

Other types of construction are now coming to the fore quite apart from timber frame construction, such as externally insulated buildings. Again an external inspection of buildings built like this, as well as some passive haus standard buildings may reveal windows built out to the face of the wall instead of 100mm back from the face. This is still less than usual to see in a newer Irish masonry outer leaf of a cavity wall. However you may still see this in older 225mm /9" rendered masonry and also the south of England you may find that this is a standard detail in brickwork masonry of traditional or cavity wall construction. So you need an experienced eye and to know the building's history. For example in a newly extended older cottage you could see the same "pushed out" window for two different constructions.

A slightly more invasive method used by professional surveyors and one building control office I know of is a borescope, which looks through a 10mm hole to see into the construction. Again, an opinion should be formed as to what you're (quite literally) getting into because if there is a membrane in the wall you could pierce it.

The most invasive, but ultimately the most information method is to "take out a brick". This can be done skillfully without breaking the brick sometimes, but it is best to do this work on a side elevation or with a matching brick available to make good. Where there is a rendered finish, it will be harder to match exactly unless it is painted render.

FWIW

ONQ.

[broken link removed]

All advice on AAM is remote from the situation and cannot be relied upon    as a defence or support - in and of itself - should legal action be    taken.
Competent legal and building professionals should be asked to advise in    Real Life with rights to inspect and issue reports on the matters at    hand.


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## powerhouse (13 Feb 2011)

Thank you for your replies, off to read them in depth.


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