# Will Quinn Life raise their charges?



## Brendan Burgess (29 Dec 2001)

In another topic it was suggested that Quinn Life might be forced to raise their charges to make their business model more sustainable. 

Here is what the <!--EZCODE BOLD START-->* Terms & Conditions for the FREEWAY SPECIAL SAVINGS INCENTIVE PLAN*<!--EZCODE BOLD END-->says:

<!--EZCODE QUOTE START--><blockquote>*Quote:*<hr> We reserve the right to revise these charges. However, if we decide to increase them,we will give you twelve months notice in writing.<hr></blockquote><!--EZCODE QUOTE END-->

I think 12 months is plenty of time for SSIA holders to find a new fund to transfer into if Quinn Life does increse its charges.

Brendan


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## Grundy (29 Dec 2001)

*Transfers In*

Name me one fund which accepts Transfers In, <!--EZCODE ITALIC START-->_ Boss_<!--EZCODE ITALIC END-->


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## Brendan Burgess (29 Dec 2001)

*Re: Transfers In*

Hi Grundy

I take it from your question that there is none...yet!

It has been pointed out that the administrative burden on the Qualifying Fund Manager is just too severe. But at this stage there is probably no demand for such transfers. The maximum which could be in any fund is £2000. This amount will increase over the next few years and the transfer market should grow. 

Brendan


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## Grundy (29 Dec 2001)

*OK Quinn Life are the cheapest and no downside*

You got all the answers, <!--EZCODE ITALIC START-->_ Boss_<!--EZCODE ITALIC END-- 

Let me try this one.  There is so little in it in terms of charges,  that the broader based consultation/advice and hand holding one would receive going the conventional route compared to the hassle of dealing direct, probably justifies the marginally higher cost.:rolleyes


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## Mithrandir (29 Dec 2001)

*Keeping Focus*

Grundy, Quinn Life Direct appeals to the DIY market.

These are not oriented towards the independent advisory market. That accounts for about 50% of the savings market, and less in the pensions market, about 30%. Consequently it is incorrect I would suggest to see or examine QLD or other future developments as a test of the independent advisory marketplace. It is not.

Throughout the world, and here in Ireland the independent advisory marketplace is set to flourish. I expect market share to grow rather than diminish long term. Direct Sales forces are expected to lose the largest over the years ahead to Bankassurers, Telesellers, and Internet transactions, ( the later accounting for a much smaller share than proponents think).

Most people, especially the professions, SME owners, and the upper income sector want one to one advice. That costs money of course, but the perception is that it adds value. Increasing product choice, complexity, and differentiation increases the requirement for good advice. It is here I differ with Brendan. People want a circle of advisors they can rely on and trust throughout their lives. Financial advisors are just as central to that chain as good accountants, tax advisors, solicitors etc.

I believe that Irish advisors, and in particular, ( but not exclusively), Authorised Advisors are at the foot of a remarkable and profitable phase in the development of Irish financial services. There is nothing to fear, if you push forward by offering good, solid, and informed advice to people.

As they say ' Money doesn't come with instructions', and most people are too busy and couldn't be bothered buying, studying, and applying financial planning from off the shelf books. Few get past the introductory remarks, no matter how clever the author. You should see the future as one of tremenduous opportunity to grow with your clientbase. Mith.


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## Freddie Kruger (30 Dec 2001)

*Re: Keeping Focus*

<!--EZCODE QUOTE START--><blockquote>*Quote:*<hr> Throughout the world, and here in Ireland the independent advisory marketplace is set to flourish.<hr></blockquote><!--EZCODE QUOTE END-->

It's here.


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## Madonna (31 Dec 2001)

*Re: DIY Analogy is Overstretched*

Compare <!--EZCODE BOLD START-->*   DIY versus Professional*<!--EZCODE BOLD END--> in, say, the situation of getting a new bath installed.  We might posit three observations:

1)  I will need to go to some very considerable effort to learn how to do it and then to do it.

2)  I <!--EZCODE UNDERLINE START-->might<!--EZCODE UNDERLINE END--> save some money, provided I don't have to resort to a professional in the end to fix the mess I make.

3)  And I certainly will make a mess of it compared to the professional.

Now let's use the analogy for chosing a simple savings or protection product.  Again <!--EZCODE BOLD START-->*   DIY versus Professional*<!--EZCODE BOLD END--> 

1)  Yes a little bit of effort is required - but not much.  I have the <!--EZCODE ITALIC START-->_   Book_<!--EZCODE ITALIC END--> and various Websites.  In fact, if people knew the information was so accessible they would not regard it as a hassle at all, no matter how busy they were - indeed the more busy the more attractive is DIY - seeking professional advice is the hassle!

2)  I will <!--EZCODE UNDERLINE START-->definitely<!--EZCODE UNDERLINE END--> save money as I am bypassing the middlewoman.

3)  Ergo (from (2)) I will finish up with a <!--EZCODE BOLD START-->*   superior*<!--EZCODE BOLD END--> product since by far the main determinant of superiority in a commodity financial services product is price in the first place!

I would not be so sanguine as the the <!--EZCODE ITALIC START-->_   Great Mithrandir_<!--EZCODE ITALIC END--> about the future of "financial advice" especially in relation to commodity type products.  The only reason it survives at all is a lack of awareness of the general public, not a lack of skill or time. 

This awareness deficit will be rectified in the coming years as a whole generation of teenagers, currently ordering their Madonna CDs online, start accessing simple financial products in the only manner they know how to conduct commerce. :rolleyes


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## Mithrandir (31 Dec 2001)

*Product Selection versus advice*

Madonna, you've moved to a different but valid point. There is continuing confusion between these two entirely different business'es.

Product selection takes place after advice is provided, whether by self invested route above or by taking professional services. Especially for simple commodity type products like ISA'a, or SSIA's, 70% of the latter are deposits, its clear take intermediary bypass is high. But not for all firms I would speculate. Good firms that are seen by their clients as broad based financial planners, and typically these days with AA status, will already have been proactive, and maintained the client relationship even at these points.

Advice is an entirely different proposition. EG How can I retire with the assets and liabilities I've got? When do you think I will reach the point of financial independence, based on how I'm doing things today? Hey, if I don't make it long term, and lose my future income because of Ill health, what can I do to compensate the family? And what about premature death, by how much should I increase the probate value of my estate using life insurance, and what should I buy? Which is better for me Critical Illness or PHI, or a combination, whose most begnign of claims payments? I need to finance a commercial property, but I want to avoid my existing bankers how can you help? I feel I'm paying out far too much on insurances and loans can you do a review and advise? What about switching lenders for some of my loan portfolio, would incurring break costs make sense? Which should I do, SSIA, Personal Pension, or accelerated mortgage? I'm divorcing my spouse, can you advise on the litany of pension schemes we've accumulated? I've a transfer offer from my defined benefit scheme, does it make sense to take it, and what can I do? I like the idea of a self administered scheme, but I'd like to but property, can you help. I'm concerned about my overall exposure to markets through my savings and pensions, and getting confused reactions from my advisors, can you review for me.

ETC ETC ETC.

If life and pension salespeople don't learn to evolve from product sellers to broader based advisors, and reposition themselves as financial planners, or specialists like in finance arrangement, sure they'll get hammered. But such a person is merely a free lance direct sales person anyway, shortly to be called restricted advisor. I don't say this lightly nor to generate ire, merely pointing out the position which genuine Independent Advisors need to go. Getting AA status is pretty crucial to marketing that proposition in the marketplace evolving, I would have thought.


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## Madonna (31 Dec 2001)

*Re: Prognosis for the Advice Industry*

<!--EZCODE ITALIC START-->_    Mith_<!--EZCODE ITALIC END-->,  you argue the case forcibly and I do not disagree with your diagnosis as nor do I think you disagree with mine.

But you and I are aware of the huge amounts of money that were and still are being made by "brokers/advisors" peddling, for example, 110% commission Flexi Whole Life's.

The World is changing but oh so very slowly.  Ultimately it will polarise between commodity selling (<!--EZCODE ITALIC START-->_   actually <!--EZCODE UNDERLINE START-->buying<!--EZCODE UNDERLINE END--> would be a more apt description_<!--EZCODE ITALIC END-->) and the sort of advisory service you describe so eloquently.

My prognosis is that, despite increasing wealth and sophistication, the true demand for the service you describe is much too niche to be able to support the army of self appointed avdisors currently getting fat on commodity sales, simply because Joe Public (<!--EZCODE ITALIC START-->_    sorry, Joe, if you are watching_<!--EZCODE ITALIC END-->) isn't yet fully aware.

We're all doomed!!


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## Mithrandir (5 Jan 2002)

*Evolving*

True, Madonna. But the evolution from one to the other does not pose an insurmountable barrier. It is neither intellectually or commercially unfeasible for most Restricted Advisors. But clearly from the reaction of representative bodies the will to change isn't there. Yet. The first reaction has been to resist and fight, and not embrace the much more profitable and ultimately sucessful route to change.

A few have shown the willingness to drop the old patter, and find out what to do in brass tack terms. But most haven't, intead seeking INFORMED leadership where there isn't any.

In my case I'm willing to share knowledge to help others, and representative organisations, but they already know the resource is there. But the bullet has to first be bitten, not the least of which is the acknowledgement that the position adopted has been wrong all along. That hurts most I guess, but not as much as doing nothing about the need to change, and copy sucessful practice.

This resistence to learn from the 'opposition', is a lot more complex and deep rooted than plain costs. It's personal, and that's unfortunate because in the vacuum of poor leadership, many are going to suffer, needlessly.


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