# Options for dealing with an "unofficial"  sublet tenant



## Dodgyart (19 Oct 2008)

I am seeking advice on behalf of a relative who has a problem with the tenant in an apartment he owns.

I understand that he had a long term tenant in this apartment, with whom he had a tenancy agreement but who subletted a room to another woman.  The main tenant took the money from the sublet tenant and paid it to the landlord.  There was no formal agreement between the landlord and the sublet tenant.

The main tenant has now left the apartment but the sublet tenant is still in residence.  The sublet tenant is now paying my relative directly only 1/3 of the full rent for the apartment and appears to be trying to get some others in to make up the full rent.

This is not an option that my relative is willing to entertain as he is getting on and is looking for a simpler arrangement that is easy to manage.  Essentially I think he would just like to get this woman out and start again with more carefully picked tenants.

I believe that he will probably have to consult a solicitor, but I would like to give him some advice on what are the possible options for dealing with this situation.  

My main question is I guess, what rights has this sitting tenant acquired and how should he go about reclaiming his property?


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## mathepac (19 Oct 2008)

*Re: Options for dealing with an "unofficial" tenant*

Change the locks while she is at work, pack up her stuff and await her return...


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## bankrupt (19 Oct 2008)

*Re: Options for dealing with an "unofficial" tenant*



mathepac said:


> Change the locks while she is at work, pack up her stuff and await her return...



This stupid course of action may be followed by: 

(a) Legal action by tenant.
(b) Paying out a large sum of money to the ex-tenant for illegal eviction.

OP, consult a solicitor, tenants are protected by law and you cannot simply evict them without giving notice etc.


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## mathepac (19 Oct 2008)

*Re: Options for dealing with an "unofficial" tenant*



bankrupt said:


> This stupid course of action may be followed by:
> 
> (a) Legal action by tenant.
> (b) Paying out a large sum of money to the ex-tenant for illegal eviction.
> ...


So you are proposing initiating legal action instead of taking a course of action which may or may not result in legal action, because as OP stated the person currently in the property is not a tenant of the landlord's, she is a tenant of the ex-tenant and 





Dodgyart said:


> ... There was no formal agreement between the landlord and the sublet tenant. ...


. 

The only mistake on the landlord's part was to accept rent from the sub-let, so maybe refund this as part of my proposal.

Its going to cost money one way or another to get this lady out. My way at least the landlord can collect full rental from his property first.


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## bankrupt (20 Oct 2008)

*Re: Options for dealing with an "unofficial" tenant*



mathepac said:


> So you are proposing initiating legal action instead of taking a course of action which may or may not result in legal action



Is this the 19th century?  Yes, I am proposing that the OP should abide by the law, what you are proposing is illegal and may end up costing the OP dearly if the tenant pursues a case.

The tenant will be more or less protected depending on the length of time that they have been in residence, but it is never legal to evict someone without notice.

If the OP prefers to take your course of action perhaps they could also consider threatening the tenant with violence?  It would save them the effort of changing the locks.


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## Dodgyart (20 Oct 2008)

*Re: Options for dealing with an "unofficial" tenant*

Changing the locks was my first response when I was told about this situation, however it didn't take long to realise that this would probably be illegal and besides it is not in the nature of the man to do something like that.

I am more interested in finding out what rights this woman has acquired in relation to notice periods as it is not clear to me whether she would be considered a tenant or a squatter or what.


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## jhegarty (20 Oct 2008)

*Re: Options for dealing with an "unofficial" tenant*

The day he took rent from her she became a tenant , with all the rights that gives..

that was his big mistake....


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## ontour (20 Oct 2008)

*Re: Options for dealing with an "unofficial" tenant*

Tell the current tenant that you require the full rent and that people that she finds to share must have references and must be approved by you.  There is a slim chance that she will find someone, the alternative is that she will realise it is too much hassle and she will find somewhere else to live.


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## Steve D (20 Oct 2008)

*Re: Options for dealing with an "unofficial" tenant*

Get some of your mates to move in and pretend to be your new tenants and ask them to behave as obnoxiously as possible by playing loud music, getting drunk and generally making as much of a nuisance of themselves as possible. She will soon get fed up and move out!


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## dodo (20 Oct 2008)

If he really wants her out why not offer her free rent for a month to move out, make sure to give her cash after she has moved out, if it is hassle for  him then  maybe that incentive would work,


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## murphaph (20 Oct 2008)

If it was me I would have nit taken the rent and just changed the locks and claimed I didn't know there was anyone else in the house as I only had an agreement with Mr. x who has since left.

Taking the rent was a big mistake. Best advise so far is indeed to tell her that she must provide full rent (by whatever means) or leave. The hassle may make her look for a room elsewhere.


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## S.L.F (20 Oct 2008)

*Re: Options for dealing with an "unofficial" tenant*



Steve D said:


> Get some of your mates to move in and pretend to be your new tenants and ask them to behave as obnoxiously as possible by playing loud music, getting drunk and generally making as much of a nuisance of themselves as possible.



I'd like to volunteer for this duty!


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## Stifster (20 Oct 2008)

*Re: Options for dealing with an "unofficial" tenant*

kicking someone out can be very costly, i acted for a guy who did so and the PRTB have just awardd the former tenant €10,000 even though she was well behind with the rent and had said on a number of occasions that she'd leave.

By the way I told him the day he rang up for advice that he was goosed!


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## oceanclub (21 Oct 2008)

jaybird said:


> What is wrong with you people?


 
They're landlords?

P.


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## Dodgyart (21 Oct 2008)

Interesting opinions being expressed here! Makes me glad I am not renting anymore, although I am sure a lot of people are braver on an internet forum than in real life.

As it turns out diplomacy was by far the best option, a friendly chat has led to an agreement that the woman will pay half the rent and, subject to references checking out, her friend will move in and pay the other half.  Both are signing up to tenancy agreements.

Good outcome for everyone bar the solicitors.


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## ajapale (21 Oct 2008)

Ok, just keep the discussion civilised and on topic.
Two posts have been deleted, one from each side of the debate.
aj
(moderator)


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## bugler (22 Oct 2008)

> As it turns out diplomacy was by far the best option, a friendly chat has led to an agreement that the woman will pay half the rent and, subject to references checking out, her friend will move in and pay the other half. Both are signing up to tenancy agreements.
> 
> Good outcome for everyone bar the solicitors



Imagine that, actual discussion between landlord and tenant meant that both wound up with a satisfactory outcome. No PRTB, no (illegal) evictions, no loss of rental income. 

You have to wonder at the calibre of person who when faced with the scenario of a rent-paying tenant doing absolutely nothing wrong themselves, decides that to evict them is appropriate. 

The responses to this thread have been shameful. Absolutely shameful. They do however serve as a very useful guide to the backward attitudes of the Irish toward property and tenant rights.


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## murphaph (22 Oct 2008)

Indeed-this country is very backwards when it comes to landlord-tanant relationships. The Landlord is hamstrung by the system which overly protects unruly, non-paying 'tanants'. This shameful system has led to landlords reacting in a predictable manner. If landlords got a fair crack at the whip from the PRTB (fast hearings, speedy decisions to evict non-payers etc.) then the landlords wouldn't be so reactionary. There's obviously something very wrong with the law.

You can be out of pocket to the tune of thousands-the tenant can walk away and you will likely never see a penny. Possibly losing your property (if you have a mortgage to pay) in the process.


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## bugler (23 Oct 2008)

None of what you just regurgitated is applicable to the above case. There are plenty of threads you could have thrown that into and it might have been relevant, but this isn't one. Where is the implication in Dodgyart's posts that this tenant would squat in the house and not pay rent? Or are *all *tenants conniving freeloaders just waiting to screw you over at some point?



> If it was me I would have nit taken the rent and just changed the locks and claimed I didn't know there was anyone else in the house as I only had an agreement with Mr. x who has since left.



Really? You couldn't have spoken to her in a civil manner, explained the situation, and said she'd have to find replacement tenants to cover the full rent? Or said you're going to look for a replacement tenant yourself? Or said you realized she'd been left in an awkward position and you aprpeciated she'd been paying rent and had been a good tenant, but would she consider moving out if she can't find a housemate ASAP? You couldn't have done any of that? 

Not your style I suppose.


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## S.L.F (23 Oct 2008)

bugler said:


> Or are *all *tenants conniving freeloaders just waiting to screw you over at some point?



It only takes *1* to change a landlords view on tenants.

I personally have been very lucky bar 1 Polish pair who left the place in tats.

I'm glad it worked out for the OP and hope that if I have a problem with any future tenants I'll be lucky too.

But if I'm not lucky it could cost me thousands of *€*.


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