# law about dogs when the law fails



## macbird (20 Sep 2010)

What legally can you do to dogs when they continue to foul garden?  Going to warden does not help and putting down repellents is a waste of money. what legal rights has one to live without that dirt?  It is a suburban area. Stopped entrance to back garden so they used the front

i know all the dog law it is not enforced or enforcable, dogs left out early a.m when the warden is not even at work. I do not know the owner or would shove it down his throat

so does one have to put up with it?


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## Marietta (20 Sep 2010)

maybe they are strays, alot of them about and there may be more than one dog. Not much you can do but scoop it up, i am afraid dog laws are very far down the political spectrum in this country at the moment


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## macbird (20 Sep 2010)

Marietta said:


> maybe they are strays, alot of them about and there may be more than one dog. Not much you can do but scoop it up, i am afraid dog laws are very far down the political spectrum in this country at the moment


they are not strays they are owned by irresponsible people.


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## RMCF (20 Sep 2010)

I like dogs but hate irresponsible owners, and have suffered a bit of bother in the past myself. 

What you could do is try to trap the dog and take it to the pound yourself. That will get around the hassle of the warden was caring.


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## Marietta (20 Sep 2010)

I wonder if this is a good idea the OP could be got for theft


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## RMCF (20 Sep 2010)

Marietta said:


> I wonder if this is a good idea the OP could be got for theft



Then do it carefully


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## Towger (21 Sep 2010)

RMCF said:


> What you could do is try to trap the dog and take it to the pound yourself.


 
Theft.. You just found him in your front garden


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## galleyslave (21 Sep 2010)

if the dog is wandering on your property its classed as a stray surely?


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## pixiebean22 (21 Sep 2010)

I agree with RMFC, capture the dog in your garden and bring him/her to the pound, say you don't recognise the dog so thought the best place to bring him/her was to the pound. It's not theft if you're stealing something from your own front garden. I'm surprised more pets don't end up in the pound with the amount of people that open the door in the morning and kick their pets out on the street to torment the rest of the neighbourhood.

Where I live my dog and I are tormented by dogs out on the streets trying to fight with him and because they're not on leashes and very rarely have collars, it's hard to grab them to try to control the situation. I don't blame the dogs, they're probably bored and miserable from being left out on their own.

From citizensinformation - "*Stray dogs are dogs that are in a public place and are not accompanied by the owner or a responsible person.* Dogs that are not under proper control are also considered stray dogs. You can receive an on-the-spot fine if your dog is not under proper control. Stray dogs may be seized by the dog warden and the Gardaí and brought to the local dog pound. These dogs may be put down or disposed of if their owners do not claim them within 5 days. If your dog has strayed or is missing, you should contact the local dog pound directly to check whether or not your dog has been picked up. Before you pick up your dog, you will have to pay a re-claim fee and produce a current dog licence. If you do not have a current dog licence, you must obtain one from your local post office before collecting your dog."

And also in relation to dog fouling - "Under new litter laws (Section 22 of the Litter Pollution Act 1997), *it is an offence to allow a dog under your control to foul a public place.* This means the owner/person in charge of the dog is required under this law to remove dog faeces and dispose of it in a suitable, sanitary manner. You can make a complaint to the District Court under the litter laws against an owner or someone in charge of a dog who allows that dog to foul public places and who fails to act responsibly. Before you do this, you must first inform the dog owner of your intention by completing a special form available from the Dog Control Unit of your local authority. You can read more about litter laws in Ireland here."

Technically speaking the dog isn't under the control of his owner and is a stray so does that leave a bit of grey area.  I guess this is why people are told to bring strays to the pound so there isn't this grey area.


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## Firefly (21 Sep 2010)

How about collecting the offending material and delivering it to the dog's owner, (insisting that the next time it may not be so neatly wrapped).


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## DB74 (21 Sep 2010)

OP doesn't know who the owner is


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## Purple (21 Sep 2010)

Would the same idea of drapping work for cats fouling in a private garden?


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## z104 (21 Sep 2010)

How about doing it the old fashioned way and actually speak to your neighbour about it..


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## DB74 (21 Sep 2010)

He doesn't know who the owner is!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


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## truthseeker (21 Sep 2010)

RMCF said:


> What you could do is try to trap the dog and take it to the pound yourself.


 
Its the only real answer. The warden wont take away the dog unless its contained for him during his working hours. Get a dog trap, catch the dog, bring it to the pound - end of problem.


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## galleyslave (21 Sep 2010)

truthseeker said:


> Its the only real answer. The warden wont take away the dog unless its contained for him during his working hours. Get a dog trap, catch the dog, bring it to the pound - end of problem.



unless your conscience pricks you at the thought of the dog being put down in 5 days if not collected


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## pixiebean22 (21 Sep 2010)

If a dog owner is negligent enough to throw their dog out on the street all day, I doubt they'd even bat an eyelid to the dog being missing for 5 days...


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## galleyslave (21 Sep 2010)

its the person taking it to the pound, not the owner I was addressing


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## truthseeker (21 Sep 2010)

galleyslave said:


> its the person taking it to the pound, not the owner I was addressing


 
To take it to an extreme - should we have packs of stray dogs running around trying to fend for themselves or should we send them to the pound to be humanely euthanised?

Its a sorry state of affairs to send a dog to the pound. But its a sorrier state of affairs to have irresponsible dog owners letting their dogs run wild around the place in a civilised society.


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## galleyslave (21 Sep 2010)

an alternative would be to take the dogs to an animal charity that don't put them down


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## truthseeker (21 Sep 2010)

galleyslave said:


> an alternative would be to take the dogs to an animal charity that don't put them down


 
Ive tried to do that with a stray before - Ive never been able to find a charity to take a stray unless the animal is injured. The DSPCA will not take a dog unless it is injured, they tell you to call the dog warden for strays. When you phone around the other charities you will find that they are either (a) full or (b) dont take strays only injured animals. 

I agree in an ideal world its not nice to have to bring a dog to the pound - but what would you suggest is done if the charities wont take them unless they are injured?


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## pixiebean22 (21 Sep 2010)

_"its the person taking it to the pound, not the owner I was addressing"_

Yes, I understand that.  I don't understand why the OP (or the people suggesting he/she take the dog to the pound) should have to question their own conscience if the dog owner is irresponsible enough to not care about the animal's welfare.  Aside from this case, the dog could get hit by a vehicle and I'm sure the dog owner would be crying to all who would listen about how sad they are and how much they loved their little doggie, loved them enough to leave them on the street.

In fairness as much good work as animal charities do more often than not they have to turn away animals because they can't afford to keep them.


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## truthseeker (21 Sep 2010)

pixiebean22 said:


> I don't understand why the OP (or the people suggesting he/she take the dog to the pound) should have to question their own conscience if the dog owner is irresponsible enough to not care about the animal's welfare.


 
+1. Its also dangerous to leave a dog unattended on a public street from a human point of view, dog could go for a child or adult, or attack someone else walking a leashed dog. Plus the dog dirt carries nasty germs and can be very dangerous for children. Its just not acceptable and I dont think anyone but the owner is responsible. It might not be pleasant to deliver a dog to the pound, but unless owners become responsible its a reality.


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## pixiebean22 (21 Sep 2010)

truthseeker said:


> +1. Its also dangerous to leave a dog unattended on a public street from a human point of view, dog could go for a child or adult, or attack someone else walking a leashed dog. Plus the dog dirt carries nasty germs and can be very dangerous for children. Its just not acceptable and I dont think anyone but the owner is responsible. It might not be pleasant to deliver a dog to the pound, but unless owners become responsible its a reality.


 
And I will second that - as I said in an earlier post, stray dogs often go for my dog and there is no way to control the situation as they're generally not on leashes or wearing collars and their owners are nowhere to be seen.  

And aside from the points already made, dog faeces is dangerous, yes the OP is unlikely to go out to his front garden and start eating the stuff, but his front garden is his own property and he shouldn't have to worry about coming into contact with it.


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## RMCF (21 Sep 2010)

I think the problem of dogs roaming around streets is overlooked sometimes.

Do we want this sort of thing happening?

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-11376025


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## galleyslave (21 Sep 2010)

clearly not. It seems to me however that it's the dogs that suffer through neglect or being put down whereas the real issue revolves around the owners lack of responsibility that is facilitated by a system that ignores the legislation


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## pixiebean22 (21 Sep 2010)

This is why I think there should be HUGE restrictions regarding the ownership of any animal as a pet.  Any person can buy/adopt a pet without any background check being done or any home check being done.  The only requirement is that a person spends E12.70 on a yearly dog licence and more often than not possession of a licence is not checked up on.  Convictions in relation to animal cruelty are low and there's nothing stopping a person owning another pet because the law is not enforced.


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## truthseeker (21 Sep 2010)

pixiebean22 said:


> Any person can buy/adopt a pet without any background check being done or any home check being done.


 
Depends where you get the pet. The DSPCA do home checks and will refuse an animal in circumstances they deem unsuitable. They seem to be the only ones who do that.

My neighbours wanted a dog, the DSPCA refused them a dog, so they went and got one from the pound - no checks done at all.


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## Guest122 (21 Sep 2010)

An old neighbour of mine used to swear by...

"A pound of mince and a good handful of rat poison"

I don’t condone such action, I don’t even know if it would work.


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## truthseeker (21 Sep 2010)

Breffni Boy2 said:


> An old neighbour of mine used to swear by...
> 
> "A pound of mince and a good handful of rat poison"
> 
> I don’t condone such action, I don’t even know if it would work.


 
Why would you inhumanely poison a dog when you could bring it to a pound to be humanely euthanised?


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## pixiebean22 (21 Sep 2010)

truthseeker said:


> Depends where you get the pet. The DSPCA do home checks and will refuse an animal in circumstances they deem unsuitable. They seem to be the only ones who do that.
> 
> My neighbours wanted a dog, the DSPCA refused them a dog, so they went and got one from the pound - no checks done at all.



Forgot to include that the DSPCA do home checks but as you said yourself DSPCA do their job but other places just undo their work.


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## Guest122 (21 Sep 2010)

"Why would you inhumanely poison a dog when you could bring it to a pound to be humanely euthanised?"

I don't know.
I do not agree with poisoning any animal where a quicker more humane alternative exists, and an alternative does usually exist.

But the old codger of a neighbour never had any problem with dogs when word got out he would poison/shoot any that was on his land


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## galleyslave (21 Sep 2010)

Breffni Boy2 said:


> An old neighbour of mine used to swear by...
> 
> "A pound of mince and a good handful of rat poison"
> 
> I don’t condone such action, I don’t even know if it would work.



you don't condone it but happily offer it up as wisdom. whats with that?


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## Guest122 (21 Sep 2010)

I offer it as another alternative.
It is up to the OP to decide what to do.
I even stated that I don't agree with it.

Shooting such animals would be the lesser of two evils...


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## truthseeker (21 Sep 2010)

Breffni Boy2 said:


> I offer it as another alternative.
> It is up to the OP to decide what to do.
> I even stated that I don't agree with it.


 
Its an irresponsible alternative to offer. The OP could end up with a suffering, foaming at the mouth animal on his front lawn and be done for cruelty. Or other peoples family pets or even children could ingest the poison.


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## Guest122 (21 Sep 2010)

OK. I take it back.
I was wrong to even suggest it.


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## galleyslave (21 Sep 2010)

Breffni Boy2 said:


> I offer it as another alternative.
> It is up to the OP to decide what to do.
> I even stated that I don't agree with it.
> 
> Shooting such animals would be the lesser of two evils...



what planet are you on?


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## Guest122 (21 Sep 2010)

what planet are you on? 

I live in rural Ireland where such methods are very common occurances, and legal, where dogs enter private property.

People do shoot and poison dogs


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## galleyslave (21 Sep 2010)

well, regardless of the morality of deliberately poisining or shooting or using any methods to kill a dog, the poster did say they were in a suburban area. This ain't compton...


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## Teatime (21 Sep 2010)

I run a lot near my home in a very rural setting. There was a time when 2 dogs in 2 separate houses used to come out and chase me and snap at my heels etc. They were pretty angry. They don't do that to me anymore thanks to some well aimed/timed kicks and stones. I suppose I should have gone into the owners and complained but I didn't bother. That said, I know dogs, we bred pedigrees when I was growing up and I have no fear of them. One thing is for sure, a dog reflects its owner/master. Make the dog afraid to come into your garden, problem solved.


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## pixiebean22 (21 Sep 2010)

I may be wrong but I do believe farmers are within their rights to shoot any animals that enter their property and "worry" animals. When I was younger a local farmer shot one of our dogs for going onto his land and "worrying" his sheep. My dad went to the local garda station and we found out that farmers are within their rights to do this. Don't know if this is still the case.

(Just to clarify, the dog wasn't running on his land on a continual basis.  We had just moved into the area - from Dublin to Kerry - and had not managed to secure the fences etc yet, the first time the dog did it he was shot.  From what I remember of the incident the farmer was plagued by local dogs roaming on his land.  We had plenty of dogs after that none of whom ever left our property unless they were on a leash.)


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## ney001 (21 Sep 2010)

galleyslave said:


> This ain't compton...



brilliant!


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## pixiebean22 (21 Sep 2010)

Have a read of this.

http://www.independent.ie/national-news/girl-9-attacked-by-pitbulls-2346711.html


_SDLP Councillor Gerard Diver said: "If people are going to put dogs like this out it does a great disservice to people who keep dogs responsibly."  _- This would suggest to me that these dogs were out roaming the streets.

On the other hand I don't agree with the "dangerous breeds" list.


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## Complainer (21 Sep 2010)

macbird said:


> What legally can you do to dogs when they continue to foul garden?  Going to warden does not help


Escalate the issue to the warden's bosses in the council and/or local councillors. Don't let them away with this.

I doubt if the dog is aware of the warden's working hours!


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## DB74 (21 Sep 2010)

pixiebean22 said:


> On the other hand I don't agree with the "dangerous breeds" list.


 
Why not?


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## pixiebean22 (21 Sep 2010)

A dog is not dangerous just because it is born a certain breed. 

There should be a "never allow this person care of a blade of grass much less anything else" list.


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## roker (21 Sep 2010)

Our street has a green area across the road from the front of our house. I often see people with dogs on leads taking them along the green belt, this is for one reason only. this area has a lot of young children around and dog excrement can cause serous diseases. The new law has not change anything


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## Complainer (21 Sep 2010)

roker said:


> Our street has a green area across the road from the front of our house. I often see people with dogs on leads taking them along the green belt, this is for one reason only. this area has a lot of young children around and dog excrement can cause serous diseases. The new has not change anything


Get on to the dog warden and/or start challenging them yourself. Bring your camera out and start taking photos of the owners and the dogs.


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