# Separarated, ultimate divorce. When am I financially free?



## NewEdition (25 Oct 2013)

I splitup with the wife a year and a half ago and we have an agreement where I pay all the bills, mortgage and give her the necessary amount of money to keep the house running and the kids fed, clothed etc. I am renting and have my own expenses there. We did not get any legal parties involved, it was all by mutual agreement. We have agreed on a date that the marriage collapsed and both believe it will ultimately end in divorce.

At what point in time are the finances examined for the split of assets, pensions etc?

What if I win the lotto tomorrow? Is the split of finances at the time of divorce, or is it at the time of the collapse of the marriage? Same question regarding property. I own 50% of the house - Its a joint mortgage, but she is a stay at home mum right now, so 50% o that is mine. But what if I buy another property in a years time? Is she then entitled to 50% of that at time of divorce, or does the fact that it was purchased after we split up, mean that its 100% mine?


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## commonsense (25 Oct 2013)

https://www.google.ie/url?sa=t&rct=...9mV_nG-eCgEbn4g&bvm=bv.55123115,d.ZGU&cad=rja

Mediation is a less expensive and adversarial way of dealing with such issues. May be worth contacting them.


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## Sandals (25 Oct 2013)

I am aware of a couple who divorced about 13 yr approx ago and it was pointed out to the father in the relationship at the time, that unfort no, you are never totally free from your divorced wife as she could claim if worth her while on his future estate, thankfully nothing has ever happened since the divorce. 

Child maintenance is however another case. The only child from the marriage is now nearing 18 (Iv a post up about it looking for info) after 16 years of maintenance payments, thro the courts right from the start. 

It is the belief after 18 the child will no longer have inheritance rights to his property etc if not wrote into the will. There is a will in place for past 10+ years leaving x amount money to each of his children all the same and everything else to his new wife. 

The father was told at the time that if the mother remarried, his maintenance payments could stop immediately.


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## NewEdition (25 Oct 2013)

We byassed mediation, we are on fairly good terms and have agreed the financial side of things. I am talking about the future. Say I win a few million tomorrow, or if I buy a house. Will she be entitled to half of everything until we divorce, or is it half of everything from time of separation? Although, note the term separation - We agreed all the terms of our separation between us, there is no legal agreement in place.

If she finds out that I am suddenly worth millions, or if I have another property, our "on good terms" situation could change very quickly!


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## commonsense (25 Oct 2013)

NewEdition said:


> We byassed mediation, we are on fairly good terms and have agreed the financial side of things. I am talking about the future. Say I win a few million tomorrow, or if I buy a house. Will she be entitled to half of everything until we divorce, or is it half of everything from time of separation? Although, note the term separation - We agreed all the terms of our separation between us, there is no legal agreement in place.
> 
> If she finds out that I am suddenly worth millions, or if I have another property, our "on good terms" situation could change very quickly!




The things is that the situation won't change because as it stands she is still legally your wife.

From Citizens advice. 
"If a married couple or civil partners can agree the terms on which they will live separately, they may enter into a separation agreement. The essence of a separation agreement is that it is an agreement. Both parties must consent to the terms of the agreement.

The agreement is a legally binding contract setting out each party's rights and obligations to the other. The terms of the agreement are usually reached either through mediation or negotiation through solicitors. If agreement can be reached reasonably quickly between the parties and a separation agreement drawn up, it is cheaper and less stressful than taking a court case. Many couples formalise their separation in this way.

Mediation
Mediation is not marriage counselling. Its purpose is not to help a couple to reconcile. Its purpose is to aid couples who have decided to separate to resolve any disputes they may have in relation to the key issues such as custody and access to children, maintenance and property rights. The mediator is neutral and encourages the separating couple to co-operate with each other in working out mutually acceptable arrangements that they will stick to. Any separating couple can avail of mediation, whether they are married or not. This includes same-sex couples.

Mediation normally takes up to six or seven sessions but this can vary depending on complexity. If agreement is reached, the mediator will draw up the terms of the agreement. It is recommended that people seek independent legal advice before signing the agreement.

Mediation is confidential and any communication with a mediator is not admissible if agreement is not reached and there are subsequent court proceedings.

It is advisable for couples who opt for mediation to ensure that they obtain legal and financial advice before attending mediation so that they know their rights and can make informed decisions.

Negotiation through solicitors
Where the agreement is negotiated through solicitors, each party must have their own solicitor to ensure that they receive independent legal advice.

Collaborative practice
Collaborative practice is a way of resolving family law matters, including separation and divorce. Both you and your spouse/partner work with collaborative lawyers. Everyone signs an agreement disqualifying your collaborative lawyers from representing you in court if the process breaks down. Neither lawyer can act for you in any contested court proceedings.

Through face-to-face meetings, you and your spouse/civil partner discuss and resolve issues such as custody and access to children, maintenance and property rights. The process is dependent on both parties making full and frank disclosure of all of their assets so that negotiations can be open and honest.

If the process is successful you will have an agreement with your spouse/civil partner which you will both have had responsibility for.

Not every lawyer is trained in collaborative law and it is likely to be more difficult to engage in the process if one of the lawyers is not so trained. 

Deed of Separation
The actual document drawn up and signed by both parties, when they reach agreement, is often called a Deed of Separation and is a legally binding written contract. The main issues dealt with in a separation agreement are as follows:

An agreement to live apart
Agreed arrangements in relation to custody and access to children
The occupation and ownership of the family/shared home and any other property
Maintenance and any lump sum payments
Indemnity from the debts of the other spouse/civil partner
Taxation
Succession rights .
It can be made into a rule of court by application to the court. This ensures that all the terms agreed upon can be legally enforced where covered by appropriate legislation. Information on making a separation agreement a rule of court is available on the Courts Service website."


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## NewEdition (29 Oct 2013)

commonsense said:


> The things is that the situation won't change because as it stands she is still legally your wife.


 
So I take it that until the point of divorce, I should assume that all assets etc will be split. After divorce, nothing can be touched (eg, lottery winnings, property, any money I come in to etc), apart from my commitment to supporting the children etc?

Thanks


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## Maz24 (29 Oct 2013)

Hi New Edition,
My sister in law recently went through a divorce settlement arrangement, first bit of advice is stay on the best terms you can so you don't have to involve Solicitors as my Sister in Law and her ex had to, legal fees alone in there case exceeded 30k.

Great advice above, mediation is the way to go. If both of you can discuss and agree future Custody and financial arrangements before mediation that would be even better as there is less chance of disagreement during mediation sessions.  First thing you and your wife need to do is write down agreed custody arrangements for the Children, then prepare individual affidavit of means.  

Affidavit is a sworn statement which includes all income, wages, Child Benefit and individual and joint assets even value of cars, Pensions, business, investments etc.  

If you cannot agree as to how assets are split in the future it could get messy.  

As you rightly assume you will remain liable for the support of your Children until they leave full time education or reach the age of I believe 23 if they are still in full time education at that time.  

Unless your wife remarries or finds a way of supporting herself financially, you will also remain liable for Spousal support.

Financial support of your Spouse and Children is on-going after divorce either party can seek amendment to amount originally agreed if financial circumstances change, i.e. you win the lottery and your wife is struggling to support herself and you Children on previously agreed Maintenance payments, or you have Children with a new Partner and can no longer maintain originally agreed Maintenance. 

When agreement is made on division of assets, eg you continue to pay Mortgage if income allows on Family home until Children leave full time education then Family home is sold and equity is divided equally or wife takes over payment if she wishes to remain in the home or you continue to pay for home to allow her to remain in it, if you have a pension you may agree to your wife keeping home in return for making no claim on your future pension.

It is better to try and agree all the terms between yourselves if you can.

To answer your question, you would be better to wait until after divorce settlement arrangements before acquiring any further assets as if purchased before settlement they become joint assets.

This information is based on my Sister In Law's experience only.


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## Time (29 Oct 2013)

Under the Irish version of divorce you are never free financially. If you win the lotto 20 years down the road, the other spouse can comeback looking for their share.


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## sellornot (21 Dec 2014)

We have a deed of separation and I am told it's not worth the paper it's written on any comments


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## sellornot (21 Dec 2014)

Separated over 20 years ago I am now looking for a divorce to re marry, but ex wife is looking for more money now even tho we split everything 50/50 when separated


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## sellornot (31 Dec 2014)

I will ask this question again, is a legal separation agreement enforceable, is it worth the paper its written on.  Would like to get some comments on this subject.


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## mf1 (31 Dec 2014)

sellornot said:


> I will ask this question again, is a legal separation agreement enforceable, is it worth the paper its written on.  Would like to get some comments on this subject.


You'll only find out when you file for divorce. There are too many variables in peoples' circumstances to give a definitive answer. 

Mf


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## Thirsty (31 Dec 2014)

> is a legal separation agreement enforceable, is it worth the paper its written on


IANAL  In my opinion no, separation agreements are exactly that, an agreement to live apart and undertake certain actions (e.g. pay child/spousal maintenance, access arrangements etc.,).  If one party acts the maggot you have to obtain court order(s) to implement.  Better to have a Judicial Separation which can be enforced, or if you can afford to wait the 4 years, get a divorce.



> If you win the lotto 20 years down the road, the other spouse can comeback looking for their share.


They can certainly try... doesn't mean they will succeed.


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## sellornot (2 Jan 2015)

when we seperated ( 20+ years ago)we both signed a waiver through a solicitor that we would not go after each others assets in the future, I am now been told by my solicitor its unenforceable Is this correct ? Whats the point of a seperated agreement then ?


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## mf1 (2 Jan 2015)

sellornot said:


> when we seperated ( 20+ years ago)we both signed a waiver through a solicitor that we would not go after each others assets in the future, I am now been told by my solicitor its unenforceable Is this correct ? Whats the point of a seperated agreement then ?



What exactly are you trying to find out? 

Are you trying to establish on an anonymous internet forum whether your, very personal, individual to you, and your circumstances,  separation agreement will win out in a contested Divorce application? 

Or are you trying to find out whether anyone has ever succeeded in over riding a separation agreement in a Divorce situation? In circumstances (a) where neither parties circumstances have either (1) changed dramatically (2) changed significantly (3) changed marginally (4) not changed?

"Whats the point of a seperated agreement then ?"

We only have Divorce in Ireland since 1996. Before the 1989 Judicial Separation Act, we had no legislative mechanism for trying to arrange separating couple's finances. That was the point of separation agreements. Not everyone was properly advised, not everyone made good agreements. And sometimes, people are just plain mean and want more . Thats what some people are like adn sometimes its just easier to give them money to make them go away. 

mf


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## sellornot (3 Jan 2015)

Are you trying to establish on an anonymous internet forum whether your, very personal, individual to you, and your circumstances, separation agreement will win out in a contested Divorce application? 

Yes

I am trying to find out, has anybody any experience regarding divorce in Ireland, whereby after seperating and splitting their assets. now one party wants a divorce, problem is one party sat on their backside and did nothing, while the other went on to start a successful business and increase their assets. What way will a judge look at this,


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## Thirsty (5 Jan 2015)

IANAL

No one can answer that question for you.

Your former spouse is entitled to apply for a divorce, they are also entitled to seek a review of the settlement terms.  You can't prevent either of those things happening. 

Find an experienced family law solicitor and make an appointment & try not to let the process eat you up.


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## Purple (7 Jan 2015)

If I won millions tomorrow I'd happily give half of it to my Ex just to get her to go away!


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