# Rented house burgled. Tenant looking for landlord to reimburse loss



## Thelip (30 Jan 2008)

Hi there.  Friend has a house rented out and it was recently burgled and alot of stuff stolen from one tenant. No sign of forced entry (per gardai) and tenant is now claiming my friend should reimburse him.  Has even gone to a solicitor and things have gone nasty. The house is insured and I think there is contents insurance for my friends stuff.  Should my friend be concerned?  Has the tenant a leg to stand on?

Look forward to hearing from you.


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## ClubMan (30 Jan 2008)

What does the lease/rental agreement say about insurance - e.g. that the tenant should have their own contents insurance? If there is a dispute can the _PRTB _help in this context assuming your friend is registered with them as legally required?


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## Thelip (30 Jan 2008)

Hi Clubman

To be honest, I don't know.  Will enquire with my friend and get back to you.  Have no idea what arrangements he has with the tenants.


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## jhegarty (30 Jan 2008)

Thelip said:


> No sign of forced entry (per gardai)





Is there any suggestion that there the landlord hasn't accounted for all the keys he gave out ?


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## ClubMan (30 Jan 2008)

Or the tenant could have made copies or given his keys to somebody who did this?


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## Thelip (31 Jan 2008)

It's hard to know.  As far ask I know he has the building and his contents insured.  Dont' know about the keys, though it could be as likely that doors or windows left open!


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## MrMan (31 Jan 2008)

Check the lease first before going any further. Most standard lease include that tenant must insure their contents.


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## Stifster (31 Jan 2008)

and I'd add that even if it doesn't say it in the lease (and obviously doesn't say the opposite) then it would be implied that the tenant should insure his own belongings.


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## ASFKAP (31 Jan 2008)

No sign of forced entry could also suggest that the tenant left a door or window open....


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## Thelip (31 Jan 2008)

All of the above likely possibilitie perhaps.  I'm of the view though that when renting, a tenant is responsible for the insurance/non-insurance of his or own possessions!  Also, would think that landlord could not be responsible for having to cough up if windows or doors were not properly locked.  As it happens, he will be out of pocket too, as some of his stuff was stolen, but I'm sure insurance company will not pay up on account of the non-forced entry.


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## ASFKAP (31 Jan 2008)

On my rental properties its a condition of the contract that tenants must insure their own contents and possessions, I however still pay the buildings insurance.
How would a landlord be expected to make a claim on behalf of a third party for stolen items? I have no idea what kind or how many plasma TVs, laptops, diamond ear rings, MP3 players etc any of my tenants have, am I as a landlord expected to believe what may or may not have been stolen and submit a possibly fraudulent insurance claim on their behalf? The tenant is entirely responsible for the safekeeping and insuance of their own valuables......


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## teachai (31 Jan 2008)

In general, if you let your property and don't inform the insurance company, the contents are not insured.  If you do get insurance, it will only be for your own contents, not the tenants.  Tenants are responsible for their own insurance. It is unreasonable to expect you to insure their goods, how would you know the value, what to insure, etc.


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## Thelip (31 Jan 2008)

Hi All

Thanks for all your replies.  It seems that the tenant is being unreasonable here and I said as much to my friend, but I'm no legal eagle or insurance expert.  By the sounds of things he has to sit tight until the tenants solicitor advises him of the pointlessness of going any further.


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## Ravima (31 Jan 2008)

you can only insure those items that you have a financial interest in. Landlord has no financial interest whatsoever in tenants possessions. tenant should insure own possessions. landlords insurance covers HIS buildings, HIS contents and HIS liability. it does not cover anything belonging to tenant.



To those sensitive souls out there, HIS can be subsitituted by HER and for the very liberal couples, THEIR!!!


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## Thelip (1 Feb 2008)

Hi Ravima.  Thanks a million for the straightforward, non complicated rule of thumb. You really have put it in a nutshell!


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## briancbyrne (1 Feb 2008)

the landlord cannot insure anything belonging to the tenant as he does'nt have an "_insurable interest_" in it - i.e. he does not stand to loose if anything happens to it.

An insurance company simply will not cover this risk.

The tenant hasn't a leg to stand on.


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## bess (24 Mar 2008)

I just returned from holidays in lanzorate last night to find my front door wide open- the wooden panels at the bottom of the door were kicked in. they took a digital camera- cash - approx 100, ipod speakers and vouchers for BT etc for 150, guards just lifted a good fingerprint. i had asked for a lock for my room as i moved in with a stranger, and was told by the landlord that she didn't need to supply one for insurance purposes- thus no. Do I have a leg to stand on in terms of claiming on her insurance?


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## Gunship (24 Mar 2008)

Bess, again as per a previous post, your Landlord is not responsible, he/she has no insurable interest in your personal effects, for security you should get your own lock on your door and advise your landlord that you have doen this.


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## Brendan Burgess (24 Mar 2008)

I don't think that a lock on your own internal door would have made any difference here? If you had one, they would have damaged the door and the frame in kicking it in. If you fit an internal lock without the approval of your landlord, she will hold you responsible for repairs necessitated by locking an internal door.


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## JoeB (24 Mar 2008)

Brendan said:


> I don't think that a lock on your own internal door would have made any difference here? If you had one, they would have damaged the door and the frame in kicking it in. If you fit an internal lock without the approval of your landlord, she will hold you responsible for repairs necessitated by locking an internal door.



That doesn't sound reasonable or right to me... if a tenant rents a house he or she should be free to lock internal doors... the burgalars would have damaged the door, not the tenants... Don't forget that one tenant has a right to security from the other tenants.. so internally locked doors are essential in a shared house.

Also I don't think a tenant needs permission to make a small change like installing a lock... 

I'm not trying to be argumentative and I could be wrong but I feel strongly that a tenant should be allowed to fit (a lock) and lock internal doors in a house they are renting.

Cheers
Joe


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## Banking2006 (25 Mar 2008)

A number of companies offer insurance for contents to students staying in college campus apartments and private rented accomodation. I'm sure this would extend to your situation.


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## aircobra19 (25 Mar 2008)

JoeBallantin said:


> That doesn't sound reasonable or right to me... if a tenant rents a house he or she should be free to lock internal doors... the burgalars would have damaged the door, not the tenants... Don't forget that one tenant has a right to security from the other tenants.. so internally locked doors are essential in a shared house.
> 
> Also I don't think a tenant needs permission to make a small change like installing a lock...
> 
> ...



Why should they be allowed to make modifications to the house? If they do it wrong they could ruin a door.


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## JoeB (25 Mar 2008)

Yes they could... but replacing a lockset in an existing door is very simple... and cheap. Door locksets typically come in two sizes.. 2.5 inches and 3.5 inches... I'd expect every door to already have a lockset mortised into it.. all they have to do is take off one handle, take off the lockset, replace the lockset with a new one valued at 10 to 15 euro, re attach the handle.. door is now lockable and all keys are accounted for. Shouldn't be too hard, easier than changing a plug really, less physical dexterity required.

It could be that no-one is allowed make any modifications to a house but that seems unreasonable to me... I would refuse to live in a shared house if the doors weren't  lockable but I suppose you could vote with your feet and refuse to rent such a room.

I don't think the landlord is liable for tenants property (for reasons outlined already)... so the only hope for the tenants is to have locked doors.


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## aircobra19 (25 Mar 2008)

Considering you can't get some tradesmen to do stuff properly, I think your expecting a lot from the average tenant IMO.

I know one tenant who immediately after moving in changed all the locks on the house without telling the landlord. Not a move to inspire goodwill in a landlord.


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## Brendan Burgess (25 Mar 2008)

Hi Joe

I wasn't thinking of the other tenants. I was thinking of the burglars. 

Our offices have been broken into on a few occasions over the years and there really is very little to rob. But they kick in doors which are locked and they damage the door and the frame. It costs a lot to get them rebuilt. 

I suppose I would not like to live in a house with people whom I did not choose to live with. But if I did, I would want to lock the door while I was out. 

And then who is responsible for fixing up the house after a burglary? I suppose the landlady would be.

Brendan


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## S.L.F (25 Mar 2008)

aircobra19 said:


> Considering you can't get some tradesmen to do stuff properly.



Any tradesman who can't put a lock into a new door isn't a tradesman.

I have found that putting new locks onto old doors isn't as easy as onto a new door. Likewise repairing old doors can be a curse.


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