# Maths Grinds for Junior Cert Daughter - Rate per hour ?



## allthedoyles (29 Jan 2009)

Daughter is soon going for grinds one evening per week until Junior Cert 

Normally be for 1 hour 

Have a choice of two teachers , but have not asked yet how much it cost per hour .

Anyone know the going rates ?


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## angela59 (29 Jan 2009)

Hi,

There is a maths grind available on line - revise on line I think it is.  Have no affiliation but have heard of it during the course of conversation.

Angela59


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## twofor1 (29 Jan 2009)

Last year, paid €35 cash for each 1 hour private lesson at home, by qualified secondary teacher. Dublin.


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## MaryBe (30 Jan 2009)

Paid €35.00/hour for sons junior cert grinds in French last year (CASH).  Word of advice.... please do background check on prospective teacher, ie contact other parents who have availed of his/her services.  I didn't do it with mine as it was a very last minute decision and rushed.  We were not very happy with her but thought "keep going, it's only for a few weeks".  My son did ok but would have done ok even without the grinds.


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## briancbyrne (30 Jan 2009)

g/friend charges €35 per hour regardless of whether its at hers or at students - Portlaoise area


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## Guest128 (30 Jan 2009)

If your daughter is struggling at the level of maths she is doing, she should be moved to the appropriate level (pass/foundation). Thats what those levels are there for. 
Grinds at junior cert level is ridiculous, students spend enough time at school already. If she isn't able for honours maths, she isn't able, its that simple.


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## LouisCribben (30 Jan 2009)

FLANDERS` said:


> If your daughter is struggling at the level of maths she is doing, she should be moved to the appropriate level (pass/foundation). Thats what those levels are there for.
> Grinds at junior cert level is ridiculous, students spend enough time at school already. If she isn't able for honours maths, she isn't able, its that simple.


 

I don't know if I agree Flanders.
Sometimes students are in a big class, and the teacher might not explain things very well, and the student might fall behind and lose confidence.

Having someone explain things like Maths one on one can be be very efficient, the teacher can explain in a straightforward way the key aspects that the student needs to know to do well.


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## Diziet (30 Jan 2009)

FLANDERS` said:


> If your daughter is struggling at the level of maths she is doing, she should be moved to the appropriate level (pass/foundation). Thats what those levels are there for.
> Grinds at junior cert level is ridiculous, students spend enough time at school already. If she isn't able for honours maths, she isn't able, its that simple.



Not at all. There is some very poor maths teaching out there and often the teachers' response is to simply move students to a lower level instead of attempting to teach them properly.

If a child is doing well academically, they should be able to handle maths. I have taught plenty of maths to students who by that stage were terrified of this difficult subject that they were bound to fail. Once they got over that trauma, taught properly and did some study, they did fine.

Maths was my favourite subject all through school and college. However, up to the age of 14, I really struggled with it. Then I did an 8 hour grind (yep, that's right, 8 hours straight) with a very gifted teacher who taught me algebra in a day. It was literally as though someone switched a light on, and Maths has been a pleasure ever since.


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## Dreamerb (30 Jan 2009)

Agree with Diziet and LouisCribben.

I've also given grinds to a (very) junior level student, most of whose problems were with confidence and fear of being wrong. A few hours of extra tuition and solid grounding in basics - and encouragement! - with parental involvement and a student prepared to work saw a previously failing student move to comfortably middle of the class and not afraid to try a solution. 

Late intervention is far less valuable (for example, emergency grinds after a poor result in the mocks), but there's time now for the student to catch up and for a realistic assessment (partly guided by mock results) of the level she should attempt. And one-on-one tuition is probably worth twice or three times the classroom hours, because the student is getting tailored lessons at the right pace. No matter how good the teacher, that's not achievable in a classrom situation because even in streamed classes abilities vary quite widely.


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## Guest128 (30 Jan 2009)

Hmmm... I can see where LouisCribben, Diziet and Dreamerb are coming from but I still think its a little too intense at 14 or 15. Maybe thats just me. 
I got grinds in college on a subject i'd never done in school (95% of course had done and lecturer seemed to assume this), and found it quite intense, having 1 or 1 tutoring, again maybe that's just me.
In fairness, junior cert maths isn't rocket science....what happened to parents helping the student, or mentioning the issue as parent teacher meetings, to allow the teacher in question to try to help, rather than panicking and rushing out to grinds?

**I suppose I must admit at this point that my father is a secondary school maths teacher [to junior cert level only] so my opinions/experiences of maths in school may be a little disjointed from other peoples


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## demoivre (30 Jan 2009)

FLANDERS` said:


> If your daughter is struggling at the level of maths she is doing, she should be moved to the appropriate level (pass/foundation). Thats what those levels are there for.
> Grinds at junior cert level is ridiculous, students spend enough time at school already. If she isn't able for honours maths, she isn't able, its that simple.



No offence but this is probably the most ill thought out statement I've ever read on AAM and I've been around a while!


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## MaryBe (30 Jan 2009)

FLANDERS` said:


> ....what happened to parents helping the student, or mentioning the issue as parent teacher meetings, to allow the teacher in question to try to help, rather than panicking and rushing out to grinds?


 
Hi Flanders,  My son was having a problem with his French teacher - maintained that the teacher was "no good" (his words) This was the only subject where he fell - in exams.  Hubby and I mentioned this "learning problem" with his French teacher at the parent/teacher meetings.  The teacher couldn't even place our son!!!  This teacher was the only one with nothing on his desk for the meetings.  All others had reports, books etc and were familiar with all children in their class.

We then made an appointment with the Head Master.  He explained to us that he "inherited" this teacher (The Headmaster was 2 years in his position) and there was really nothing he could do!!!!.  He advised grinds (if we could afford them etc)  I myself have worked in schools and witnessed first hand quality teachers and poor teachers.  In the corporate world, poor performers are dismissed.  In the public sector, they are credited the same as the quality teachers which is very unfair.


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## Guest128 (30 Jan 2009)

demoivre said:


> No offence but this is probably the most ill thought out statement I've ever read on AAM and I've been around a while!



Why? What would you suggest...moving all students to honours and hope for the best? Not all is down to the teacher being "no good". Its often for parents hard to admit, but it is possible that little Johnny/Mary may be good at the other 8 subjects and not good at maths. Not everyone is good at everything.


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## Dreamerb (30 Jan 2009)

FLANDERS` said:


> I got grinds in college on a subject i'd never done in school (95% of course had done and lecturer seemed to assume this), and found it quite intense, having 1 or 1 tutoring, again maybe that's just me.


 
It's definitely not just you, but it is a somewhat different scenario - you had effectively no grounding in the subject, whereas allthedoyles's daughter probably knows more than she even realises herself. A few hours of extra support over some weeks / months should (hopefully) have the effect of bringing that to the fore. 

And although junior cert isn't hugely complicated maths, many parents will have gone through a completely different syllabus, may have rusty skills - and may well value an independent external person who the student may listen to more (and may not be susceptible to the same level of frustration!).

I also think that maths is one of the worst subjects to give up on at a very early stage, because it's a requirement at least to have ordinary level maths for so many third level courses and in any case it's necessary at some point in many jobs. For life in general most people don't need much more than arithmetic on a day to day basis, but it's often useful to have more. Bar possibly matrices. I've never found the application of matrices to have any point at all in normal life. Algebra, yes (surprisingly often); geometry, yes; calculus (I'm a sucker for punishment), yes. Even logs. Matrices? Tchah.

Granted, not everyone is good at anything, but I'd provide positive intervention, give it some time to take effect, and only then make the assessment as to whether the student will be able for it. To paraphrase _very_ pompously, if at first you don't succeed, give it at least another attempt and some effort before downgrading expectations.


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## Guest128 (30 Jan 2009)

MaryBM said:


> Hi Flanders,  My son was having a problem with his French



How did he get on with French after that? I maintain that not all students are going to be excel at all subjects, and grinds can put extra pressure on the situation, if the student is genuinely weak in a particular area. For example, how disappointing would it be for a student (not referring to your son) to get a D a subject with the teacher only, then have 4 months of grinds and still get a D?


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## Guest128 (30 Jan 2009)

Dreamerb said:


> For life in general most people don't need much more than arithmetic on a day to day basis, but it's often useful to have more. Bar possibly matrices.....Matrices? Tchah.



You need matrices to get some humour in one Simpsons episode: Homer makes a quip about inventing "Hamburger earmuffs" and professor Frink, who has already invented them, speaks to himself "Don't worry Frinky, these babies will be in the stores while he's still grappling with the PICKLE MATRIX!!!"


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## Dreamerb (30 Jan 2009)

FLANDERS` said:


> [...]"PICKLE MATRIX!!!"


Well that's a couple of weeks' long-ago maths classes validated!


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## Black Sheep (30 Jan 2009)

We got maths grinds for our daughter at junior cert level. 10 x 1hour grinds in all. This was life changing for her, and as a previous poster said it was like some unblocked the way and switched on a light. She got an A in hons. junior cert maths and went on to do hons. leaving cert maths and got her hons.

With the right teacher great things can happen.

Choose the teacher carefully and give your child the chance.


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## demoivre (30 Jan 2009)

FLANDERS` said:


> Why?



For starters you don't know what level of Maths the op's daughter is doing and secondly, as has been pointed out to you already, there are several reasons why any student might be struggling at a particular subject, natural ability being just one of them


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## Guest128 (30 Jan 2009)

demoivre said:


> For starters you don't know what level of Maths the op's daughter is doing and secondly, as has been pointed out to you already, there are several reasons why any student might be struggling at a particular subject, natural ability being just one of them



It doesn't matter what level of maths the person in question is doing, it only matters whether the person it able for that level. 
I agree, there may indeed be several reasons but ability the certainly the first one to look at, as its far to easy to say the teacher is no good and go for grinds but not even consider that perhaps the student isnt able and would be *happier *at a lower level

I just feel that grinds at that age is a bit OTT. Maybe its because it was unheard of when I did my junior cert (1997), I don't know.


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## MaryBe (30 Jan 2009)

FLANDERS` said:


> How did he get on with French after that? I maintain that not all students are going to be excel at all subjects, and grinds can put extra pressure on the situation, if the student is genuinely weak in a particular area. For example, how disappointing would it be for a student (not referring to your son) to get a D a subject with the teacher only, then have 4 months of grinds and still get a D?


 
My son got a C in hons french.  His first two years in secondary were very good in that subject.  He then got this new/other teacher and he went downhill as did the rest of the class.  Apparently the class average was D.  I fully agree that children at this stage in their development do not need extra pressure but you have to agree that some teenagers are just plain lazy and need a little shove.  
Parents need to realise their own childrens abilities and encourage rather than force.  I believe a childs social development and self esteem is equally if not more important and very much needed in todays world.


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## Complainer (30 Jan 2009)

twofor1 said:


> Last year, paid €35 cash for each 1 hour private lesson at home, by qualified secondary teacher. Dublin.


Just curious, was the 'cash' your idea or the teacher's idea?


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## sandrat (30 Jan 2009)

switching to foundation level maths is not a great idea if the child ever wants to go to college. I had a terrible teacher for JC maths but was lucky I had an interest in it. She was a bully and it was the shy students who didn't have the confidence to stand up to her bullying that ended up being forced into doing pass. Then I had a great teacher for hons maths in leaving cert but switched to pass in the end because I didn't need honours for college and could get the points needed from my 6 other honours subjects would have needed an honour in honours but only needed a B in pass so it took a lot of pressure off and made life easier study wise.


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## demoivre (31 Jan 2009)

FLANDERS` said:


> It doesn't matter what level of maths the person in question is doing, it only matters whether the person it able for that level.
> I agree, there may indeed be several reasons but ability the certainly the first one to look at, as its far to easy to say the teacher is no good and go for grinds but not even consider that perhaps the student isnt able and would be *happier *at a lower level



What do you do with the student who is *already *at the lowest level in a subject at Junior cert and is struggling?


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## allthedoyles (31 Jan 2009)

The OP's daughter is actually concentrating on Higher level Maths for JC .
Has achieved 55% in Christmas exams , but wants to do better .

I feel , that we as parents have a duty to help her to improve as well as her teacher/ school.
We feel she has the ability , but as some-one said above ......many teachers have to just brush over the subjects and obviously cannot give extra time to one particular student.

Which is why , we are going to arrange a one-on-one .

If her results improve , and she goes on to be successful at Honours Maths , it will have been all worthwhile .

The statistics are , that of 55,589 students at Leaving Cert 2008, only 15.3 % sat the Higher Level Maths  Paper ...........and only 6,600 student gained an honour (grade C or better ) in Higher Level Maths .


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## twofor1 (31 Jan 2009)

Complainer said:


> Just curious, was the 'cash' your idea or the teacher's idea?


 
My experience has been cash is expected though not specifically asked for, but if paid by cheque they were no longer available.


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## helllohello (26 Apr 2009)

my daughter and her friend organised maths grinds for their leaving cert a few years ago. they both went in for 2 hours -they got an hour each and could listen in for the other girls hour, so really they got 2 hours for the price of 1. results were great. some teachers may accomodate this idea.


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## allthedoyles (26 Apr 2009)

*Update to original question asked on the 29/01/09*.

Grinds are ongoing weekly.......were quoted € 45 p/h ...........offered to pay € 35 , and € 35 p/h was agreed ...on condition that daughter attends at least one day every week .

Grinds appear to be helping , although the 'proof of the pudding' will be Junior Cert results next August .


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