# The Budget in Brief - A Citizen's Guide



## Brendan Burgess

http://www.budget.gov.ie/Budgets/2021/Documents/Budget/The%20Budget%20in%20Brief%20-%20A%20Citizen's%20Guide%20to%20Budget%202021.pdf
		


Is this a new initiative? I had suggested it to the Dept of Finance a few years ago that they should explain where the money comes from and where it goes to.  They never responded.

Update: It was done last year


----------



## Brendan Burgess




----------



## Brendan Burgess




----------



## Brendan Burgess

I sent this email in September 2018! 

I find it very frustrating that I can't find a simple summary of the government's finances anywhere.

I think that every citizen should get a one page summary of this sort of information. Maybe that is ambitious but as a first step, every journalist , every commentator and every organisation calling for more government expenditure.


Government income:
Government expenditure:
Deficit:

The main heads of expenditure
The main heads of income

Total government debt
less investments
Net government debt

GDP*

Shortfall on Social Insurance Fund
Shortfall on Public Sector Pensions


The best I can find is this.

https://whereyourmoneygoes.gov.ie/en/about/

But I don't want to go back to 2008.

I want to know the actual figures for 2017 and maybe the forecast for 2018.

I have looked at Finance and at the CSO and I can't find them.

If there is someone who is responsible for communicating this sort of stuff I would be very happy to sit down with them and suggest how the data could be translated into useful information.


----------



## Protocol

CSO is here:





__





						Government Accounts - CSO - Central Statistics Office
					






					www.cso.ie
				




For example, this:





__





						Government Finance Statistics April 2020 - CSO - Central Statistics Office
					






					www.cso.ie
				




There are also Excel files generated by CSO.


However, the CSO data does not break down by Ministry / Department.


----------



## Protocol

__





						The Revised Estimates Volumes for the Public Service
					






					www.gov.ie
				




I suspect the REV contains too much detail?


----------



## Purple

We'll owe a quarter of a trillion Euro by the end of 2021.


----------



## elcato

Purple said:


> We'll owe a quarter of a trillion Euro by the end of 2021.


I don't know how much that is but it scares me and will others. Have you tried getting on the PR team for NPHET ?


----------



## ClubMan

Brendan Burgess said:


> View attachment 5023


Is there an equivalent graphic for income?


----------



## WolfeTone

elcato said:


> I don't know how much that is but it scares me and will others. Have you tried getting on the PR team for NPHET ?



I wouldn't be overly concerned, it's all make-up money these days. The whole global economy is on the hook for unimaginable and unrecoverable amounts of debt.


----------



## Drakon

An annual budget is so, like, 20th Century. 

All jokes aside though, I think it would be better if there was a single budget to coincide with the expected duration of a new government. Then every year tweak the original budget if needs be. 
Probably a bad time to be making such a suggestion during the year of the Covid. 
But I find the annual budget too theatrical and something we inherited from the British. 

We need a broader, longer term, budget plan every five years (in reality, every time the Dáil elect a new Taoiseach. And make subtle adjustments every twelve months. 

This stage show of the minister with his wife and kids and au pair and dog and cat and leather-bound ledger and CD and USB-stick (and limited edition 12” vinyl version to keep the hipsters and their members happy despite being wiped out by Covid because nobody was around to notice their authenticity..,)
... c’mon...


----------



## ClubMan

Five year plans?
Now how come nobody ever thought of that before...?


----------



## Purple

WolfeTone said:


> I wouldn't be overly concerned, it's all make-up money these days. The whole global economy is on the hook for unimaginable and unrecoverable amounts of debt.


If it's make-up money then people have make-up pensions and savings. The consequences won't be made-up.


----------



## Drakon

ClubMan said:


> Five year plans?
> Now how come nobody ever thought of that before...?



I seem to recall a thing called a... five... point...
plan.......back in the mists of the old normal.


----------



## Purple

Drakon said:


> I seem to recall a thing called a... five... point...
> plan.......back in the mists of the old normal.


The Chinese are rather fond of them, the first one starting in 1953.


----------



## WolfeTone

Purple said:


> If it's make-up money then people have make-up pensions and savings. The consequences won't be made-up.



Oh no doubt. When the poop hits the fan it's going to be ugly. 
The debt is too big, it won't be paid back because it can't be paid back. So no point in worrying about how to pay it back. 
I'm not just talking about Ireland btw. The rest of the EU, the UK, the US, Japan...all on the hook.


----------



## Purple

WolfeTone said:


> Oh no doubt. When the poop hits the fan it's going to be ugly.
> The debt is too big, it won't be paid back because it can't be paid back. So no point in worrying about how to pay it back.
> I'm not just talking about Ireland btw. The rest of the EU, the UK, the US, Japan...all on the hook.


I agree. I'm wondering what will happen when labour costs equalise between Asia and the rest of the developed world. They have been sucking up all the inflationary heat over the last 2-3 decades. Once that happens we should see inflation here and so a reduction in debt in real terms. If that happens repaying it will become much easier (a 5% inflation rate will half the debt in real terms in 8 years).


----------



## Duke of Marmalade

Purple said:


> I agree. I'm wondering what will happen when labour costs equalise between Asia and the rest of the developed world. They have been sucking up all the inflationary heat over the last 2-3 decades. Once that happens we should see inflation here and so a reduction in debt in real terms. If that happens repaying it will become much easier (a 5% inflation rate will half the debt in real terms in 8 years).


14 years 5 months actually.  
What we badly need is a currency which is fixed in supply, decentralised, censorship immune, instantly transferrable across borders.  Oh, and with some intrinsic value of course.


----------



## Purple

Duke of Marmalade said:


> 14 years 5 months actually.


Did ye compound that?


----------



## Duke of Marmalade

Purple said:


> Did ye compound that?


1.05^14.207 = 2, or
(1 / 1.05)^14.207 = 0.5

(I think you are thinking of 1.5 rather than 2)


----------



## Purple

Sorry, you're right. Typing without thinking.
I was multiplying by the result each year.
It's 7% for 50% total in 5 years. I should have remembered that even without working anything out.


----------

