# Architectural plans ideas for terraced house?



## rustbucket (25 Jan 2011)

Hi

Myself and partner bought a terraced house 3 years ago. Needed a lot of work done and we didnt (still dont) have the cash to do it. We spent a bit on it and got it to a decent standard to live in but long term plan was always to extend and completely re-do.

We are not in a position to start thinking about doing any work but I would really like an idea or a set of plans for the future. I suppose its to keep the dream alive really but nice to see something on paper that might end up becomming a reality.

So couple of questions.

1. How much would it cost roughly to get an architect/designer/engineer to come up with a set of plans in consultation with us as to what we would like, and suggest possible optimum outlays for the design (rooms etc, extension)

2. If we did get above done, whats the best way to get an idea of how much the whole thing would cost. (We can see ourselves here for 20 years+ but not if the whole thing would end up costing more than trading up). Should I approach a builder/engineer to cost it? Would they charge a fee for this given that the work would more than likely not happen for a few years?

3. How much does it cost then to apply for planning permission? I know this might vary depending on how many times you have to submit stuff etc but just a general idea.

4. In peoples experience is it better to pay someone to do all the above for you (like a project manager).

Anyway, as above, its more of a wish than a reality at the moment but would like some idea of how it might all evenually pan out.

I would point out that I dont like wasting peoples time so would be quite clear that this is not something likely to be pursued soon, and wouldnt mind paying people a small fee for a quote etc for their time.

Cheers for any thoughts or advice


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## Kenno (25 Jan 2011)

Hi rustbucket,
I'm sure any or indeed many architects would be glad to discuss all the above matters with you. Below is a link to a firm who have undertaken some similar projects in the past.
Apologies for the brevity of the reply but I must dash. 



ps I have no connection with the above firm


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## rustbucket (26 Jan 2011)

Thanks Kenno

Seems to be exactly what im looking for


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## onq (28 Jan 2011)

rustbucket said:


> Hi
> 
> Myself and partner bought a terraced house 3 years ago. Needed a lot of work done and we didnt (still dont) have the cash to do it. We spent a bit on it and got it to a decent standard to live in but long term plan was always to extend and completely re-do.
> 
> ...


How long is a piece of string?
Certain things can be quantified on the basis of past performance and current pricing.
Personally, I have spent two months and more working on a private house design with clients.
Its probably better to agree a fee for a cerain amount of hours and see how it goes.

Not every person is able to read drawings, not every person thinks conceptually.
This can be a foreign notion to a persons who has spent the past five years and more earnign their qualification through making four presetnations a month for eight months of the year.
Its important that your architect realises your limitations and designs the medium of communication to suit - models are usually acceptable to all.
Also useful are photos or site visits to places that you may think well of, to better inform your architect "in the round" of your underlying intentions and desires.


> 2. If we did get above done, whats the best way to get an idea of how much the whole thing would cost. (We can see ourselves here for 20 years+ but not if the whole thing would end up costing more than trading up). Should I approach a builder/engineer to cost it? Would they charge a fee for this given that the work would more than likely not happen for a few years?


Costings are done by qualified Quantity Surveyors - Q.S.'s
Ball park costings can be done by unit area/ square meterage/square footage.
These are totally unreliable for extension work in my experience if based solely on area figures.
Too much "hidden" work may need to be done to the existing house, i.e.:


tying in to existing foundations
adding insulation
re-pointing existing walls and chimneys externally
making good internally
new stairs
renewing plumbing
renewing electrical system
structural interventions to facilitate extension
structural changes to "open up" internal spaces.
bracing to walls experiencing settlement
renewing old pipes in addition to the new drainage runs
Typically none of these building works programme items directly generate a significant floor area in and of themselves but all generate significant costs.


> 3. How much does it cost then to apply for planning permission? I know this might vary depending on how many times you have to submit stuff etc but just a general idea.


The cost to make a planning lodgement is dependant on the detail work already done.


To get to Plannning lodgement stage you need to have a survey the existing house and site, including levels and services.
Single application fee for an extension is €34
The notation of the drawings and extraction or area figures and preparation of the lodgement proper can take two days.
Public planning notices are required in the paper and on site.
All questions on the planning application form require to be answered, which can sometimes throw a few curve balls in terms of legals.
You will need six copies fo an Ordanance Survey Map.
You will also needs six copies of the drawings and site layouts plan.



> 4. In peoples experience is it better to pay someone to do all the above for you (like a project manager).


No, an architect will look after all this work on such a relatively small project.
However, a project manager may provide you with a certain comfort zone, especially if you are unconfortable dealing with yoru architect or the builder when things get a bit fractious - as they can do on any building project.
Remember that the architect is working for you until the site work starts, after which is has to treat both parties fairly under the contract.
If you appointed a QS who could also provide project management services, you might have a valuable addition to the team.


> Anyway, as above, its more of a wish than a reality at the moment but would like some idea of how it might all evenually pan out.
> 
> I would point out that I dont like wasting peoples time so would be quite clear that this is not something likely to be pursued soon, and wouldnt mind paying people a small fee for a quote etc for their time.
> 
> Cheers for any thoughts or advice


There are many architects out there now who would take your arm off to have a sniff of a project even if its not going forward just now.

Some basic "do"s and "don't"s


Don't be put off by age [youth or maturity do not indicate talent or ability].
Don't be too worried about location - most of them have transport.
Don't be concerned about gender - talent is unisex.
Don't be too put off by personality - designers can to be a quirky lot


Do have a look at some websites and built work out there.
Don't be afraid to call in and ask who did the work.
Do ensure you like the kind of work your prospective architect does.
Do discuss fees including whether they offer a free first consultation service.
Hope this helps.


ONQ.

[broken link removed]

All advice on AAM is remote from the situation and cannot be relied upon                                                                    as a        defence    or         support  -     in     and    of         itself   -                 should               legal             action          be                 taken.
Competent legal and building professionals should be asked to advise in                                                                    Real    Life      with        rights    to         inspect     and       issue                 reports       on         the                    matters       at                hand.


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## RIAD_BSC (29 Jan 2011)

Hi Rustbucket. I have friends who live in a terraced house who are also getting an extension and a bit of remodelling done - they got an architect who they seem happy with to design it for them for around €2k I think, including VAT. I'm not sure what s/he is charging them to project manage.

One important thing. Just make sure your architect is fully qualified and RIAI-registered. Indeed, if they are not registered, they shouldn't be practising under the title of an architect at all. So when someone gives you a quote, check their name against the public register on the RIAI website. If it doesn't appear, then start asking questions about why they are not a registered architect, or even easier, just drop them and hire a registered one - there's plenty of good ones out there.


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## onq (29 Jan 2011)

What RIAD_BSC has posted seems perfectly true as far as it goes - its just not the whole story.

There are many competent persons out there who have been in practice for ten years or more providing services commensurate with those of an architect.
All of those where were not Members of the RIAI were disenfranchised on May 2008 by the provisions of the Building Control Act 2007.
This granted automatic Registration only to Members of the Royal Institute of the Architects of Ireland.

People who are unregistered are not allowed by law to use the title "Architect".
They are however allowed to provide architectural services.

This has been challenged by other groups, who feel the RIAI has used its dominant position and professional lobbying to secure an unfair market advantage, through prejudice and academic one-upmanship, not based on merit or an honest examination of the professionalism and competence of all practitioners involved.

Search around for quotations, you might find some of these "unregistered successes" will cut you a sweet deal on price and have a "bedside manner" you can live with.
Make sure anyone you retain carry Professional Indemnity Insurance, have no outstanding claims against them, and take soundings from their past clients.
I would advise checking that they have at least ten years experience working as an architect and/or that they hold a prescribed qualification - or both.
You should also check that their certificates and opinions are still acceptable to building societies.

ONQ.

[broken link removed]

All advice on AAM is remote from the situation and cannot be relied upon                                                                     as a         defence    or         support  -     in     and    of          itself   -                 should               legal             action           be                 taken.
Competent legal and building professionals should be asked to advise in                                                                     Real     Life      with        rights    to         inspect     and        issue                 reports       on         the                     matters       at                hand.


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## rustbucket (31 Jan 2011)

ONQ

Thanks a million for the detailed, informative response. Appreciate it. Provides food for thought. Especially in regard to planning applications.

Cheers


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## RKQ (1 Feb 2011)

ONQ is quite correct. 

Not all experienced Architects are on RIAI list because the process of "Technical Assessment" has not been finalised. Those that would pass the Assessment have yet to be given the opportunity to sit the process.

I'd suggest you approach at least 3 professional Designers for a written quote. Look at their previous work, ask lots of technical / design questions and see who you like best. Quotes will be very competitive.


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## onq (1 Feb 2011)

rustbucket said:


> ONQ
> 
> Thanks a million for the detailed, informative response. Appreciate it. Provides food for thought. Especially in regard to planning applications.
> 
> Cheers



Hi rustbucket,

You're very welcome.

I should point out my own position is that of a graduate of twenty years standing (1990) who can no longer legally use the title because I am not a Member of the RIAI.
However I have reached a certain level of dispassionate, philisophical  detachment based on my last year of struggle, political lobbying and draft amendments.
Since "we are where we are" with the BCA 2007 and the Registrar and the Assessment Board, I see no point in continuing to tilt at windmills.

Thus, I am in favour of registration for all service providers so  I fully support it in principle, just not the way it has been  implemented.
I am also in favour of reasoanble fees for competent work and the weeding out of outrageous pricing by the so-called "starchitects".
None of this is to excuse poor performance, outrageous fees, or ignorance on the part of anyone providing Architectural Services.

Best of luck with your project and let us know how you get on.

ONQ.

[broken link removed]

All advice on AAM is remote from the situation and cannot be relied upon                                                                      as a          defence    or         support  -     in     and    of           itself   -                 should               legal             action            be                 taken.
Competent legal and building professionals should be asked to advise in                                                                      Real      Life      with        rights    to         inspect     and         issue                 reports       on         the                      matters       at                hand.


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