# What is a valid protest vote?.



## DavyJones (14 May 2009)

I was talking to a lady today who has given up on politics in this country and at thelocal elections will scribble "SHAM" across the ballot paper to spoil her vote. she will be doing this in protest. 

She claims that if enough people do it, it would send a clear message.
I don't know how I feel about it but see where she is coming from. She belives that the whole "My uncle/father/mother etc is retiring so i am running" is only an example of how politics is sown up in this country.

What do you think a valid protest vote is?


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## jhegarty (14 May 2009)

I would much rather vote for an independent who I agree with. There must be one on the ballot.


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## Caveat (14 May 2009)

I think you could maybe just write a pre-prepared phrase across your ballot e.g. "I object to the way this country is being run and believe that no prospective candidates have the ability or integrity...etc...therefore I am spoiling this vote" ?


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## Sunny (14 May 2009)

jhegarty said:


> I would much rather vote for an independent who I agree with. There must be one on the ballot.


 
I agree. Deliberately spoiling your vote is a stupid idea. If there is no-one on the ballot that you think can do a decent job, run yourself.


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## michaelm (14 May 2009)

DavyJones said:


> What do you think a valid protest vote is?


Maybe adding an extra '[X] None of the above' line at the bottom of the ballot.





Sunny said:


> Deliberately spoiling your vote is a stupid idea.


Only because those who bother to turn up to engage in the process but feel unable to endorse any of the candidates on offer are lumped in with those who can't complete the ballot properly and those who fail to realise when they don't have a validated ballot, to give the spoilt vote tally.


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## DavyJones (14 May 2009)

jhegarty said:


> I would much rather vote for an independent who I agree with. There must be one on the ballot.



Thats what I said, She said their are all the same and she is probably right.



Caveat said:


> I think you could maybe just write a pre-prepared phrase across your ballot e.g. "I object to the way this country is being run and believe that no prospective candidates have the ability or integrity...etc...therefore I am spoiling this vote" ?



I starting to think i will do something like that.


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## Caveat (14 May 2009)

Sunny said:


> Deliberately spoiling your vote is a stupid idea.


 
Well maybe, in some ways, but it's a much better idea than not voting at all IMO - which many people seem to do.


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## Firefly (14 May 2009)

Think Dustin the Turkey was put down on Tallaght slips some years back and managed to do quite well.


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## csirl (14 May 2009)

If you spoil your vote, you are not making any statement. You are just taking yourself out of the democratic process and have no cause to complain if someone you dont like is elected.

One advantage of our PR system is that you vote in order of merit. If you dont like any candidate, it is better to put the one you mildly dont like first and the rest in order with the one you like least last. 

If you genuinely think that all candidates are equally bad, then you should be running yourself or you should persuade someone who you like to run.


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## Sunny (14 May 2009)

Caveat said:


> Well maybe, in some ways, but it's a much better idea than not voting at all IMO - which many people seem to do.


 
Do you not think you might as well not vote? Its not as if all the spoiled votes are collected and gone through to see why people spoiled them so you could write a lovely message and it will never be read. They are thrown to the side and forgotten about. At least if you use your vote in some way, it allows you a say in the process and gives you the right to hold the politicians of the day accountable. The main political parties would get the message loud and clear if the Dail was suddenly made up of independent candidates. The Dail wouldn't last long but it would be an effective protest.


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## MrMan (15 May 2009)

If you don't like any of them just vote for the one you dislike the least, or run for it yourself. I doubt that spoiled votes make any message and nobody would be bothered reading through the well thought out gripes.


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## liaconn (15 May 2009)

I agree that it is a waste to spoil your vote. The only information politicians analyse is how many votes they lost to other parties/independents. So, as other posters said, vote for the person/party you can most tolerate and send a message to the ones you really can't stand. 

If you want to directly inform candidates of why you don't want to vote for them, write to them , send a letter to the papers and so on.


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## Mpsox (15 May 2009)

wow, I am sure the politicians are quaking in their boots to think that someone might write "sham" on a ballot paper

Firstly it is wrong to simpley blame all politicians for the ills of the country. They had their part to play but so did far more people as well

If she can't find a politician to vote for then run herself


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## TarfHead (15 May 2009)

I disagree. Spoiling your vote is exercising your democratic right.

In the last Presidential election, I wrote NO against each candidate's name, because I did not wish to see any of them elected as Head of State. Doing what I did was preferable to abstaining.


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## Sunny (15 May 2009)

TarfHead said:


> Doing what I did was preferable to abstaining.


 
Why?


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## callybags (15 May 2009)

Is deliberately spoiling your vote not illegal?

Or am I imagining things?


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## Caveat (15 May 2009)

callybags said:


> Is deliberately spoiling your vote not illegal?


 
Don't think so?!

So, what does anyone think can be done as a protest vote then if it is considered pointless to spoil your vote? Voting for the least hated politician may not be an option - after all, if everyone did this and say voted for a local 'harmless' hobbyhorse unknown, theoretically, they could actually get elected - and you can potentially add an even less competent/experienced politician to the mix!

_Edit: Sorry, I see Sunny has kind of answered this above!_


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## TarfHead (15 May 2009)

Sunny said:


> Why?


 
Cos I actively participated in the process. What would be a valid form of protest ? Post to a messageboard  ?


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## baldyman27 (15 May 2009)

I'm of the opinion that writing any protest phrase on the slip is a pointless exercise, no-one will read it, much less take any notice, much less care or bring it to the attention of someone who should care. The only effective protest vote IMHO is for everyone to spoil their vote or for everyone not to vote. That would send a loud and clear message to candidates that none of them evoke confidence in the electorate. Pigs will fly.


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## liaconn (15 May 2009)

TarfHead said:


> Cos I actively participated in the process. What would be a valid form of protest ? Post to a messageboard  ?


 
Basically, you went to all the trouble of going down to the polling booth to vote for nobody. I don't see the point in that. The candidates don't know or care, so you haven't really made a statement. In fact, a low turnout can say more about the apathy of voters than spoiled votes which, as someone pointed out, can be spoiled because of genuine mistakes.


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## Mpsox (15 May 2009)

baldyman27 said:


> I'm of the opinion that writing any protest phrase on the slip is a pointless exercise, no-one will read it, much less take any notice, much less care or bring it to the attention of someone who should care. The only effective protest vote IMHO is for everyone to spoil their vote or for everyone not to vote. That would send a loud and clear message to candidates that none of them evoke confidence in the electorate. Pigs will fly.


 
To me, a low vote only tells the politicians we don't give a damm about them and that they can go off and do what they like because we don't care. Instead what is needed is a very high turnout so they actually get the full picture of what the country is thinking


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## liaconn (15 May 2009)

Mpsox said:


> To me, a low vote only tells the politicians we don't give a damm about them and that they can go off and do what they like because we don't care. Instead what is needed is a very high turnout so they actually get the full picture of what the country is thinking


 
I agree that would be the best solution. Spoiling your vote is basically opting out of making any decision and leaving it up to everyone else to make the tough choice.


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## Howitzer (15 May 2009)

Hasn't the Fianna Fail vote of the last 80 years effectively been an anti-treaty protest vote? I didn't seem to do them any harm. 

Organised protest votes have a habit of coalescing if the issue resonates with enough people.


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## baldyman27 (16 May 2009)

Mpsox said:


> To me, *a low vote* only tells the politicians we don't give a damm about them and that they can go off and do what they like because we don't care. Instead what is needed is a very high turnout so they actually get the full picture of what the country is thinking


 
I didn't advocate a low vote, I said that *everyone not voting* would be a significant protest. Which pretty much means that there is no effective protest vote.


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## Padraigb (16 May 2009)

Failing to vote, or spoiling your vote, has no useful consequence.

Somebody will be elected. It is possible that your vote might have caused somebody else to be elected, somebody who in your judgement is less awful that the other candidates.


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## S.L.F (17 May 2009)

I believe that people who spoil their vote are wasting their own time.

If they really want to protest they should take the least dis-likable politician the so on so forth, or go with mainly independents, but the main thing to do is use up all the votes you have from 1 to 10.

I'm very angry with the govt so I'm going to vote for the bunch that FF least like.

The Greens won't be getting anything out of me, they always did before.

I think they are in for a hammering.


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