# Revenue calling to Business Addresses - Is this normal ?



## allthedoyles (28 May 2009)

Today , a regional Revenue official called to two business , in a small rural town .

One was a Beauty Salon , and the other was a Hairdresser's .

He requested that the owner fills in 4 forms . In one instance , the owner refused to fill in anything , nor sign , and the official said he would call back on Friday.

Does anyone know , what type of forms these could be , and is it normal for the Revenue to call around like this ?


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## Graham_07 (28 May 2009)

*Re: Revenue calling to Business Addresse's - Is this normal ?*

Not sure about what the forms could be but Revenue have been cold-calling in recent months, checking record keeping, staffing etc.


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## extopia (28 May 2009)

*Re: Revenue calling to Business Addresse's - Is this normal ?*

It would certainly be in the interests of the businesses concerned to cooperate, I would imagine. If they've nothing to hide, they've nothing to worry about.


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## Bronte (29 May 2009)

*Re: Revenue calling to Business Addresse's - Is this normal ?*

If you try and give the Revenue grief by not filling out forms I'd imagine they will come down on you like a ton of bricks.  Fill out the form and hope that's the end of it.


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## ali (29 May 2009)

*Re: Revenue calling to Business Addresse's - Is this normal ?*

I'd make sure first that they are Revenue. A quick call would do that. Then cooperate.


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## Welfarite (29 May 2009)

*Re: Revenue calling to Business Addresse's - Is this normal ?*



ali said:


> I'd make sure first that they are Revenue. A quick call would do that. Then cooperate.


 Presumably they showed ID.


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## Graham_07 (29 May 2009)

*Re: Revenue calling to Business Addresse's - Is this normal ?*



Welfarite said:


> Presumably they showed ID.


 
All Revenue officials show ID on arrival even where they are expected and even where ( as often happens to me ) the accountant for the taxpayer knows the official.


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## simplyjoe (29 May 2009)

*Re: Revenue calling to Business Addresse's - Is this normal ?*



Bronte said:


> If you try and give the Revenue grief by not filling out forms I'd imagine they will come down on you like a ton of bricks. Fill out the form and hope that's the end of it.


 
A bit naive. if I was the taxpayer I would refuse to provide any information without having my tax advisor present. Everyone is entitled to representation. Saying 'if you have nothing to hide, etc' is irrelevant. Many matters are open to interpretation and people need guidance. Having people banging on your door and demanding answers is no way to run a country. I thought we stopped that kind of behaviour in 1921.


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## Padraigb (29 May 2009)

*Re: Revenue calling to Business Addresse's - Is this normal ?*



simplyjoe said:


> ... I thought we stopped that kind of behaviour in 1921.



Back then, non-cooperation with government agencies might have been defended by some people on the grounds that it was patriotic. I don't think that applies now.

Most contacts between citizens and the state are routine business. That includes dealing with the Revenue Commissioners. It is a waste of everybody's time (and taxpayers' money) to ramp everything up to the status of a legal confrontation.


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## Graham_07 (29 May 2009)

simplyjoe said:


> if I was the taxpayer I would refuse to provide any information without having my tax advisor present. Everyone is entitled to representation. Saying 'if you have nothing to hide, etc' is irrelevant. Many matters are open to interpretation and people need guidance.


 
Agreed, like in all walks, Revenue officials differ in their approach, some are more understanding than others. Some do not understand that grey exists between black and white. 



Bronte said:


> If you try and give the Revenue grief by not filling out forms I'd imagine they will come down on you like a ton of bricks.


 
I have found this can happen even with co-operation if you get the wrong person.


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## simplyjoe (29 May 2009)

*Re: Revenue calling to Business Addresse's - Is this normal ?*



Padraigb said:


> Most contacts between citizens and the state are routine business. That includes dealing with the Revenue Commissioners. It is a waste of everybody's time (and taxpayers' money) to ramp everything up to the status of a legal confrontation.


 
By accepting everything that is thrown at you will result in tax payers paying too much tax. I think that that is as equally unaccpetable as tax payers under paying tax. People overpaying tax is widespread, the 4 year rule, lack of knowledge and poorly trained Revenue staff, lack of publicity by the Revenue/government in advising people of their entitlements, etc


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## billythefish (29 May 2009)

I know that Revenue have been doing a lot of checks on limited compaines that have registered for tax (i.e. filed Form TR2). 

Were these relatively new businesses allthedoyles?


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## Gervan (29 May 2009)

They have stated they will be checking on businesses that deal mainly in cash. If there is a till, they could ask to check the till slips, and compare with bank lodgements. I'm not sure how they would check on businesses with no toll.... sit outside for a while and count customers? inspect the booking diary?


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## Setanta12 (31 May 2009)

I agree with SimplyJoe - sign nothing you don't understand!

Also, in reference to earlier posts - if you have no till  they will do such as counting the number of rice-trays (for a Chinese take-away) ordered from suppliers over a period and using the average price of a meal from the take-away extrapolate from there - it will then be up to the owner to disporve this sound reasoning.

(Happened in a revenue ausit case I was involved with)


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## z107 (31 May 2009)

> using the average price of a meal from the take-away extrapolate from there


Very interesting anecdote. Business beware!


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## mathepac (31 May 2009)

Setanta12 said:


> ... they will do such as counting the number of rice-trays (for a Chinese take-away) ordered from suppliers ...


Revenue have very accurate ways of estimating true turn-over in cash businesses (pubs, restaurants, take-aways, etc.) based on years of experience, statistics.

A pub I know got caught out under-declaring sales  (spirits purchased for cash). The high sales of mixers purchased for credit through the books didn't tally so they were busted with an uncannily accurate estimate of the true figure.


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## MandaC (1 Jun 2009)

Another person I know was blitzed because they did a head count at their night club (and had been doing undercover heacounts for ages)  Serious prosecution

Is the person sure it is Revenue.  I know the CSO person (for those returns) is also doing the rounds at the minute.


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## Arch2 (2 Jun 2009)

Reading this I taught like MandaC perhaps people are confusing Revenue and CSO.  The CSO routinely send people to business's etc to collect non returned CSO survey's.  Revenue practise is more to deal by post, then demand, then sheriff or court and not to make personal call.


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## csirl (2 Jun 2009)

Revenue routinely random check retail premises for e.g. whether or not all the employees are on the books - ask any retailer. Refusing to cooperate gives the impression of guilt. Why would you need to call your tax adviser to answer a Revenue question such as "What is the name of the person serving behind the counter?"? Giving businesses advance warning of spot checks on employees would also defeat the purpose of the check for obvious reasons.


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## z107 (2 Jun 2009)

> Why would you need to call your tax adviser to answer a Revenue question such as "What is the name of the person serving behind the counter?"


Maybe it's like being arrested, say nothing without legal representation, innocent or not.


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