# Retiring at 50



## Cervelo

Would a million euros be enough to retire at 50 ??


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## Joe_90

If you need €100k per annum to live on then no, if you need €20k a year to live on then probably.

Every one is different, is home paid for, do you have children, a spouse, a passion for expensive cars?


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## Purple

If there is a pension coming along at 65 or so and no debts or dependents then probably but it would be frugal enough.


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## Clonback

In order to answer your question please provide details of your financial circumstances and your retirement plans


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## Cervelo

Its kind of a hard one to answer, as no one knows what the future holds
We are couple in our late 40s with no kids
Have a house with no mortgage worth around 500k
We have about 700k invested in several ETFs and 450k in banks and Prize Bonds
I took redundancy in 2011 after working for over 30 years and now work for 3/4 months bringing in around 15k
I reckon we can cover all our living expenses, food, utility bills, med ins and the running of two cars for 20kpa
We will add another 15/20k a year to cover other expenses like holidays and personal spending


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## Leper

I wish I had a million euro when I was 50.  I would have retired.  But, I have a more frugal lifestyle and if I were due to die at 90 there would be plenty of change left from the €1M. Looking through Cervelo's posts I don't think he/she is ready for full retirement. For a start there is the income for 3/4 months work. This gives options too. The personal spending is fairly heavy too (at least from where I sit). 

All-in-all Cervelo with €1M has enough to retire comfortably (unless Las Vegas is on the cards).  If things go a bit pear-shape he has the option to spend the winter/spring in southern Spain for €600 per month apartment rental where he can live cheaper than here.

If I were Cervelo I would be more concerned with how to fill in the extra time available than how to survive on a Cool Million.


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## mtk

Leper said:


> If I were Cervelo I would be more concerned with how to fill in the extra time available than how to survive on a Cool Million.



1 excellent point i



Purple said:


> If there is a pension coming along at 65 or so and no debts or dependents then probably but it would be frugal enough.



2 This is key or have you even defined contribution or other pension fund ?
Will you be eligible for sate pension at 68 ? will you/ can you make voluntary contributions after retiring
? Look at citizen's info  for rules

3 what about spouse : any pension fund?


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## Monbretia

Strangely enough there is no problem fill extra time, I have been involuntarily retired (can't get a job) since 52ish and to be honest at this stage I wonder how I found time to work.   There are so many hobbies/things to do etc that the only bit of time I find drags is the depths of winter like now.   Now if I could afford to fly south for the winter I'd be on a roll.   

I had a lot less than 1m (more like quarter of it) that has to get me to retirement and beyond, I will get a state pension but the deferred work pension is iffy.   I do a small bit of extra work that brings in no more than 5k or so per year.  I live a very frugal lifestyle though, I am very good at budgeting but at the same time have no problem spending on things I really want, seriously contemplating spending €350 on a garden ornament that I love so I'm not mean, just careful 

I haven't had many holidays since the enforced retirement, I would like more of those but can't really afford them, I drive an old car by choice.   The thing I really miss is the lack of opportunity to help family more, there are so many things I would for them if I had a decent income.


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## Sarenco

Hi Cervelo

If you make the conservative assumption that your investments will do no more than simply match inflation, after taxes and investment costs, then you could  afford to spend €28,700 per annum, adjusted for inflation, for 40 years before exhausting your pot of €1,150,000.  That equates to a withdrawal rate of 2.5%.

Of course, it's highly likely that your investments will do better than simply match inflation over a 40-year period but you do have to take account of the risk that the sequence of returns on your investments will not be favourable.  If a high proportion of negative returns occur in the early years of your retirement, it will have a lasting negative effect and reduce the amount of income you can withdraw over your lifetimes.  As such, it would be prudent to make conservative withdrawals - and to maintain a conservative asset allocation - in the early years of your retirement.

It's probably prudent to assume that at least one of you lives to 90, although, again, that's obviously quite conservative.  You will probably qualify for a State pension at some point but I would be inclined ignore that for the purposes of your calculations and to simply treat it as an additional safety buffer.  You could also probably trade down to a less expensive house, if necessary, again giving you a further layer of comfort.

If you take a marginally more optimistic (but still wholly realistic) view of your anticipated investment returns and assume a consistent return of just 0.5% above inflation (after investment costs and taxes), then you could afford to spend €34,500 per annum for 40 years before exhausting your pot.  That equates to a withdrawal rate of 3%.

So, putting it all together, I would have thought that you could afford to retire on the basis of your current net worth with a reasonable degree of confidence that you won't run out of money during your lifetimes.


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## Fella

I'm suprised at some answers my initial reaction was 1million at 50 is plenty and you won't have to live that frugally IMO . 

I think the main thing is if you had the skills to make save 1 million by 50 your not losing them skills and if you needed to earn again I'm sure you could go back to working 3/4 months a year but I doubt you would need to. 

I would guess most people over save for retirement and die with cash left over than vice versa, my aim is 1 million at 40 and I'll probably pack it in or work seriously less hours , by my calculations I'll never go poor and if I did I can deal with it , I'll go back to what made me the money in first place , whatever your working at for 3/4 months you may decide if possible to do it for 1 month every year if your bored and need the cash .


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## Sarenco

Fella said:


> I would guess most people over save for retirement



Unfortunately, all available data would suggest that the opposite is the case.


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## PGF2016

The only questions is will the income from your savings / investments cover your costs? If yes, then you can retire. 

Great post by Sarenco above.


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## Fella

Sarenco said:


> Unfortunately, all available data would suggest that the opposite is the case.



Sarenco is an encyclopaedia of economic knowledge but he still won't tell me what his portfolio contains  
Show us what someone of your knowledge invests in please !


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## Cervelo

Thanks for the answers guys, it seems the general feeling is it is doable but will take careful planning and a but of good old fashion luck
I made a mistake in my above post about my mortgage, I still have a tracker mortgage (1%) but the money is in Prize Bonds while I decide if I should pay it off.
The working came about by accident and provides me with a bit extra income but more importantly keeps my mental health in check
The 700k includes a PRSA of 200k which I personally control rather than PRSA provider, this I can fully access from the age of 50.
I am hoping for some where in the region of a 4% return from my ETFs, some years it's going to be lower (2015 for example) and others higher (pre 2015)
As regards my free time as Monbreita said "I wonder how I found time to work" 



Sarenco said:


> It's probably prudent to assume that at least one of you lives to 90,


This is the great unknown, I don't expect that either of us would reach that age but then again stranger things have happened and is something that I cant discount.


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## Delboy

1m euros at 50 with no kids/mortgage. If thats not enough to retire on at 50, then we're all doomed!


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## Steven Barrett

Fella said:


> I would guess most people over save for retirement and die with cash left over than vice versa,



What happens a lot is people who save a lot for retirement are prudent with their money in retirement and don't blow it in the "active retirement" stage of their life. None of us know when we are going to die, so we can't plan for that event. They want to make sure there's enough money to cover their cost of living and nursing home fees should they be required. Then there's the Irish obsession with leaving an inheritance, but that's another matter.


Back to the OP, it all depend on what you want to do as to whether you can afford to retire at 50. I have clients who are off to Thailand on Saturday for the month. They go every year for that long because they enjoy the warm weather there while it's freezing in Ireland. They go on another 3/4 holidays a year in addition to that. 

Regular travel and helping out the kids (not relevant in your case) are the two biggest outlays that I come across when it comes to plotting out expenses for the rest of your life. You and your wife should have a chat about what do you want to do in retirement and do an analysis like Sarenco did for you. 


Steven
www.bluewaterfp.ie


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## IsleOfMan

I retired at 50. I am now 63. Myself and my wife have lived on about €20k per annum to include a handful of holidays every year. No mortgage to pay. All funded from my savings. I still have good savings. At 65 I will get a very small deferred pension plus state pension.

I reckon there are two downsize stages that I can make if I need to raise cash by selling my home. Each stage will release a couple of hundred €000 to me.

I have had no problem filling my time. Gardening, DIY, Travel, Long lunches, Adult Education courses, Walking. etc

I am happy and that's what counts.


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## mtk

Sarenco said:


> Unfortunately, all available data would suggest that the opposite is the case.



I wonder would that still be true if you include their residence( as hinted at by sbarett
)
How many cash poor elderly live in 500k to 1m plus houses ? Rather than enjoying the equity end up leaving  it to the ungrateful kids !


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## Steven Barrett

mtk said:


> I wonder would that still be true if you include their residence( as hinted at by sbarett
> )
> How many cash poor elderly live in 500k to 1m plus houses ? Rather than enjoying the equity end up leaving  it to *the ungrateful kids *!



Many people simply don't want to move home, there is too much of an emotional attachment to it. By the time they realise that they should move, they feel they are too old to do so. A very experienced planner I deal with in the UK told me that if a couple don't downsize in their early 60's, it is very unlikely that they ever will. 

I love the way that people refer to the recipients of their parents inheritance as kids. it makes it sound as if they are still running around in short pants when the reality is, most of them are in their 60/70's by the time both of their parents have died. Which would make you think that if you are determined to give something to your "kids", wouldn't it be better to do it when they are younger? 


Steven
www.bluewaterfp.ie


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## Leper

No, don't retire fully until you are at least 60.  However, if you feel a little bit like you're fed up with work you could ask to work less hours weekly with a pay cut. Ensure if  the lesser hours do not suit you that you can increase them later.


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## Cervelo

I would say you could given the info you have provided, you'll have 600k, your house and more importantly a DB Pension of 45kpa.
The real questions are why you want to retire and what you want from your retirement and do you feel you can achieve this with what you've got.
For me it was a decision that took 4 years of planning before I made the jump and it was a big jump down, having said that there isn't a day where I have regretted my decision.



IsleOfMan said:


> I am happy and that's what counts.



This for me was the key, I wasn't happy now I am.


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## japester

Cervelo said:


> I would say you could given the info you have provided, you'll have 600k, your house and more importantly a DB Pension of 45kpa.
> The real questions are why you want to retire and what you want from your retirement and do you feel you can achieve this with what you've got.
> For me it was a decision that took 4 years of planning before I made the jump and it was a big jump down, having said that there isn't a day where I have regretted my decision.
> 
> 
> 
> This for me was the key, I wasn't happy now I am.


Thanks for your input Cervelo - it certainly is a big decision to make as you are going from regular work to having serious time on your hands. However, I am confident we will be able to put that time to good use and hopefully our health will be in good shape for both of us at that stage too to make the most of it. The main reason for us to retire at that stage is to leave the so-called "rat race" behind and start a new chapter of life. I'd be pretty confident too that we could both pick up some reasonably light workloads if we felt we were at a loose end completely or needed to supplement our income a little. We have a fair amount of time before that day comes anyway but it's good to start thinking about things and making some plans at least.


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## 44brendan

Perhaps you also might look on retirement as a time to give something back to the community by joining a voluntary organization or advice centre. Many of us are building up skills in our working life that are still very valuable beyond retirement. There is definitely a need for these skills in more than just the traditional charities. Business start-ups and others in difficulties can benefit from the experiences of those that have previously been there and done that!
Some friends of mine in the banking business who retired earlier have taken on the "gamekeeper turned poacher" mentality by providing very low cost advice to those in financial difficulties and need help in dealing with their bank debt.


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## japester

44brendan said:


> Perhaps you also might look on retirement as a time to give something back to the community by joining a voluntary organization or advice centre. Many of us are building up skills in our working life that are still very valuable beyond retirement. There is definitely a need for these skills in more than just the traditional charities. Business start-ups and others in difficulties can benefit from the experiences of those that have previously been there and done that!
> Some friends of mine in the banking business who retired earlier have taken on the "gamekeeper turned poacher" mentality by providing very low cost advice to those in financial difficulties and need help in dealing with their bank debt.


Top advice there Brendan - that is definitely something that we will be aiming for when the time comes around. We would both have lots to give back in that sense and would be young enough to have the energy for it - nothing more rewarding than helping someone out.


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## Leper

44brendan said:


> Perhaps you also might look on retirement as a time to give something back to the community by joining a voluntary organization or advice centre. Many of us are building up skills in our working life that are still very valuable beyond retirement. There is definitely a need for these skills in more than just the traditional charities. Business start-ups and others in difficulties can benefit from the experiences of those that have previously been there and done that!
> Some friends of mine in the banking business who retired earlier have taken on the "gamekeeper turned poacher" mentality by providing very low cost advice to those in financial difficulties and need help in dealing with their bank debt.



You're retiring at 50.  Why "give something back" while being unpaid when you can continue to work and earn money?


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## Cervelo

44brendan said:


> Perhaps you also might look on retirement as a time to give something back to the community by joining a voluntary organization or advice centre. Many of us are building up skills in our working life that are still very valuable beyond retirement. There is definitely a need for these skills in more than just the traditional charities. Business start-ups and others in difficulties can benefit from the experiences of those that have previously been there and done that!
> Some friends of mine in the banking business who retired earlier have taken on the "gamekeeper turned poacher" mentality by providing very low cost advice to those in financial difficulties and need help in dealing with their bank debt.



I found this funny yesterday, around an hour after you posted this, the wife received an email from a charity that we have volunteered for.
It is something we had both been thinking about and are finally taking the first steps into this area.


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## Cervelo

Leper said:


> You're retiring at 50.  Why "give something back" while being unpaid when you can continue to work and earn money?



Why not, there is more to life then money sometimes giving "something back" can be more rewarding than a financial gain.


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## Monbretia

I decided to 'give something back' and did volunteer work after becoming unemployed, ok let's be honest I thought it would look good on the CV too.

Anyways I have given it all up as I was ending up disillusioned, angry and more than a little annoyed with the whole welfare system, I'm afraid I saw a side of life I would have been better off not knowing about.  Yes there were very many genuine cases but more than an insignificant amount of the other.  

So pick your projects carefully


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## Jumpstartdublin

Regret to empathise with Monbretia. I volunteered with St Vincent de Paul in a paricular 'underprivileged' area in Dublin. While we definitely met some amazing people who benefitted from a small 'step up', it was very demoralising to assist people who were social welfare experts and could not imagine a life outside of same for themselves of their families. SVP volunteers are really amazing and never judge any situation, unlike I!


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## Leper

Cervelo said:


> Why not, there is more to life then money sometimes giving "something back" can be more rewarding than a financial gain.



Nice post.


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## Purple

Jumpstartdublin said:


> SVP volunteers ... never judge any situation


 That's why I stopped giving them money.


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## Jumpstartdublin

Well I wouldn't recommend not giving SVP money - they do great work giving people a helping hand / step up and of course I think we should all help anyone that experiences a small set back in their world...


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## Bronte

SBarrett said:


> Back to the OP, it all depend on what you want to do as to whether you can afford to retire at 50. I have clients who are off to Thailand on Saturday for the month. They go every year for that long because they enjoy the warm weather there while it's freezing in Ireland. They go on another 3/4 holidays a year in addition to that.



That's what I want to do too.  My ideal would be to go to the sun for two months though, November, back for xmas and away again in January.  Those two months I hate the most.  So happy today is February.  Love the days getting longer. 

But Thailand is very expensive to get to.


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## Bronte

Monbretia said:


> the only bit of time I find drags is the depths of winter like now.   Now if I could afford to fly south for the winter I'd be on a roll.
> .



Have you looked into long stay deals for the winter in Spain.  I've seen brochures for that and it's very reasonable.

In relation to the state pension, you should enquire into that now, see what you will be entitled to and see if you can top it up.


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## Steven Barrett

Bronte said:


> That's what I want to do too.  My ideal would be to go to the sun for two months though, November, back for xmas and away again in January.  Those two months I hate the most.  So happy today is February.  Love the days getting longer.
> 
> But Thailand is very expensive to get to.



They worked at it Bronte. It is something that they really wanted to do in retirement, so we priced it into the cost of their lifestyle in retirement. When they were earning, they spent less and put extra into their savings so they could have that month away when they retired. It didn't happen by accident. 


Steven
www.bluewaterfp.ie


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## Bronte

Steven do you know how much it costs them for the month?  It's very cheap to live there is my understanding. 

I'm hoping to go there for a holiday in about 2 or 3 years.  But that's another matter to going to 'live' for a month.  With no kids.


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## Monbretia

Bronte, all things remaining the same I will entitled to full state pension at whatever rate that will be when I get to it.  No option to top it up further than that.


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## Cervelo

Its something that I have been considering, the idea of spending the winter months in a warmer climate is very appealing
I was in Thailand 16 years ago and remember it been as "cheap as chips" to live in and I know a few of people who holiday there and swear they cant spend money there.
The last time I did a month long vacation was to America on a road trip which cost about €6000 all in.


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## Leper

You can spend the winter/spring in southern Spain for around €600 per month for a 2 bedroom apartment in a good resort and in a decent central location. Where necessary you can be back in Ireland within 3 hours.  You don't need a car although one would be handly.  Grocery and alcohol prices are way below our price level too.  Lots of retired Brits spend the off season in Spain, but what they do and what we do can be different.


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## moneybox

Leper said:


> You can spend the winter/spring in southern Spain for around €600 per month for a 2 bedroom apartment in a good resort and in a decent central location. Where necessary you can be back in Ireland within 3 hours.  You don't need a car although one would be handly.  Grocery and alcohol prices are way below our price level too.  Lots of retired Brits spend the off season in Spain, but what they do and what we do can be different.



One could do better if they consider going to the Algarve for the winter months, apartments can be rented there for as little as €350 a month. It really wouldn't make financial sense to go to the bother of purchasing an apartment when you can rent there so cheaply.


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## Leper

moneybox said:


> One could do better if they consider going to the Algarve for the winter months, apartments can be rented there for as little as €350 a month. It really wouldn't make financial sense to go to the bother of purchasing an apartment when you can rent there so cheaply.



I am not talking about buying an apartment I am talking renting a decent two bedroom apartment. Retired people might like to have their offspring and grandchildren visit where they can have a holiday for the price of an off-season flight. I know of places where you could rent for €350 per month too, but I would not be inclined to stay in such places.

Furthermore, for the €600 per month rental you can have 2 bedrooms in a central location in a good Spanish resort and enjoy good sunshine while the rest of us are nearly freezing to death (if we haven't been washed away by rain) in dear old Ireland.


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## moneybox

Leper said:


> Furthermore, for the €600 per month rental you can have 2 bedrooms in a central location in a good Spanish resort and enjoy good sunshine while the rest of us are nearly freezing to death (if we haven't been washed away by rain) in dear old Ireland.


 
I was refering to the Algarve which would be my choice rather than Spain


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## Bronte

Leper said:


> You can spend the winter/spring in southern Spain for around €600 per month for a 2 bedroom apartment in a good resort and in a decent central location. Where necessary you can be back in Ireland within 3 hours.  You don't need a car although one would be handly.  Grocery and alcohol prices are way below our price level too.  Lots of retired Brits spend the off season in Spain, but what they do and what we do can be different.



I can drive to Spain, and if we were both retired we could leave a car there and fly back to Ireland or wherever as needed.  If you did the full winter, say Oct to Feb that's 3K.  My heating bill is horrendous is another way to look at this.  I'd agree with a 2 bed and also a good resort and decent central location.  Don't want to go away and be stuck in the middle of nowhere in a poky place.  They also have decent health care in Spain. And going to the sun adds years to your life I'm sure.  Especially when we see so many famous people dying in the last month which always happens in the winter.

I wouldn't mind Florida either but that's a lot more expensive and is so far away and also you'd have to have good health insurance.


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## Slim

Going to Spain or Portugal for 2-6 months of the winter months sounds delightful but how do you ensure your house at home is heated to avoid frost damage etc? Sell and downsize? Sell and become a nomad? How does health cover work if you're staying in Spain for 6 months if you have no home in Ireland?


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## Cervelo

Slim said:


> Going to Spain or Portugal for 2-6 months of the winter months sounds delightful but how do you ensure your house at home is heated to avoid frost damage etc? Sell and downsize? Sell and become a nomad? How does health cover work if you're staying in Spain for 6 months if you have no home in Ireland?



Could you not have let us enjoy the pipe dream for a little bit longer


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## Bronte

Cervelo said:


> Could you not have let us enjoy the pipe dream for a little bit longer



You think Slim is going to break my pipe dream on this cold wet dark February day.  I don't intend to actually go for that long, might go for that long but break it up by coming back for xmas or when the kids holidays are in the future, like Halloween.  The amount of heat I need compared to what a house needs to survive is a vastly different amount.  We have a large house and flat roof and the bills are horrific.  Downsizing is definitely an option.  It's way too big currently but we absolutely love the location and the mortgage is not fully paid off yet.

Can go for three weeks, pop back for a week or so, holiday within a holiday.

As for healthcare, in Spain Europeans are entitled to the same as the Spanish which is quite good, any problems I pop back, in any case our healthcare covers us for Spain so that won't be an issue.  America would though.  Would need separate insurance for that. Flights are a cost, but really they are not a lot when you can pick the dates to suit your pocket.

What would be interesting is to know exactly how much it costs, one is eating for less, a saving, ditto the heating, the accommodation is a cost.  Only those who have done it can know that.  Flights are a cost, but you easily can book those cheaply when you are retired and have flexibility on dates.


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## Branz

Bronte, just some observations, nothing more, based on 14 years experience down there
: the small print on the health ins may have a max duration, max annual cumulative off shore days numbers for the irish policy to work.
internet access in Spain is not cheap or seamless. also if u want full access to english TV check before you rent as the 2014 astra satellite killed the free to air footprint in Spain and the authorities made every one remove sat dishes and made them take tv and BBand over the phone line which was not cheap either.
If you need a car it adds a lot to the cost, good public transport from airport to your resort should be a must: any distance by taxi can easily be €100 each way.
Then ease of access to shops for food and especially water if u decide to go bottled. [ lugging booted water up some steep hill is no joke.]
Same for beer and wine.
Its this issue that normally makes people eat out which is not cheap unless u want to eat poorly and badly.
My car-less model down there was to walk down the hill to the shops and load up in lidl and the other shops and get a taxi back up.
With planning, it was a weekly event, small stuff I could carry when out and about.

When in doubt, remember its 
their language
their legal system
your money
so if you need to "rage against the machine" down there, it can be very difficult as they don't give a monkeys.


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## Steven Barrett

moneybox said:


> It really wouldn't make financial sense to go to the bother of purchasing an apartment when you can rent there so cheaply.



Agree 100%. Why spend €200,000 + on an apartment when you can just rent one? if you bought, you'd feel obligated to go back to the same place every time to get value out of it. Renting, you can go to different places all the time. Plus, you haven't tied up a large chunk of cash into an asset that may be very difficult to sell. 

For those hoping to leave Ireland for the winter, make sure you check your house insurance too. Under most policies, you cannot leave the house vacant for more than 30 days, so if you are gone for over that and it burns down/ gets robbed, you are not covered. 


Steven
www.bluewaterfp.ie


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## Slim

Cervelo said:


> Could you not have let us enjoy the pipe dream for a little bit longer



Haha, and you thought* I* was raining on your dream! I share the dream too!


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## Fella

You could control your heating with a thermostat app like the Nest system from Spain , maybe an hour or two a day would keep your house ok while your away .


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## Bronte

Brantz my dream is a long way off but I'm no intention of getting involved in the system of becoming a resident etc.  My health cover will cover me for any lenght of time in Europe. I'm not in Ireland, I've already done the whole abroard thing and we travel regularly, will in fact be going to Spain this year and one of our children will be going there for Spanish.

Well aware about free to air, we have it, satellite and all, but technology is moving by leaps and bounds.  Have Netflix etc.  My OH even subscribed to RTE in january, I'm thinking we're in too many things and one of the areas of cost I'm going to look into this year, a regular on AAM should be doing these things !  My kids are dab hands at getting into movies for free, even had a guy tell me how to do it today.


And I get you about the hills and water.  I have a wheelie bag, like you see little old ladies in Dublin with, great when I go to the market to buy flowers or we go on the metro to a shopping centre and can put the coats into it and then load it up as we go alone.  Not a fan of bottled water, reckon the stuff in the tap is fine in most places unless advised otherwise.  I'm sure if I was buying vast quantities that they have home deliveries in Spain?

Before we left Ireland we had no car and I'd do that taxi back trick when necessary.  I'd actually like to get back to a more healthy car less existence.  As it is my car stays in the garage at the weekends for the most part (supermarket which is less than 5 minutes drive) .  And we have the best of public transport which we use then too.


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## Bronte

Fella said:


> You could control your heating with a thermostat app like the Nest system from Spain , maybe an hour or two a day would keep your house ok while your away .



We were in Ireland for xmas for a few days, I just use my thermostat, an hour in the morning and evening.  Apps and me are not going to work.  Is this a thing you can use remotely, like be in New York and look at the snow storm in Ireland and put up the heating via your computer.  I know someone has that, they could zone into all the rooms of their house too and see what was happening.


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## Fella

Yes it's just a remote thermostat , you can control from any computer or phone (app or website ) just log in , you can preset it before you go or you can see weather is cold and set it when you wish. 
You can have as many as you want in your home or just one in one room which would suffice for a vacant house.


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## Cervelo

Fella said:


> You could control your heating with a thermostat app like the Nest system from Spain , maybe an hour or two a day would keep your house ok while your away .



Nest has an away setting that if you are away and the temperature in you house drops below a certain level it will turn your heating on


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## Leper

There was a time when somebody with property in Spain could bring their second car and leave it in Spain for use during holidays etc.  If you have an Irish registered car in Spain at the moment after 30 days you must have it registered in Spain and cough up €800 to have it done properly.  Of course, you are under their radar then and will have the Spanish equivalent of the NCT on your plate too.

Your ehic card will cover medical emergencies for 90 days from the date of your arrival in Spain.  You can extend most Irish health care insurance to cover several months residence in Spain.

Like I said earlier, the Brits take to Spain like a duck to water.  Relatively few Irish follow suit.  I lived in Spain on and off up to a couple of years ago (from when I first retired).  For the record the next time I retire, it will be for the 3rd time -so anybody could do it.

Think about renting out your house in Ireland and suddenly you can make a few bob by living in Spain for a few months.  I know there are pitfalls of renting out your main residence, but it might be a good option.  Rent your place here for a minimum of €1000 per month and rent in Spain for €600.  A gain of around €100 per week is not a bad investment.


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## Cervelo

SBarrett said:


> Agree 100%. Why spend €200,000 + on an apartment when you can just rent one? if you bought, you'd feel obligated to go back to the same place every time to get value out of it. Renting, you can go to different places all the time. Plus, you haven't tied up a large chunk of cash into an asset that may be very difficult to sell.



While I do agree with you on this I also feel that purchasing a property that can be rented during the "holiday season", would provide you with a return on your 200k and a place to enjoy during the Irish winter. I know its not as simple as that but it is another option to look at.





Bronte said:


> I can drive to Spain



I am so jealous, its the one thing I dislike about Ireland is that it is an island, don't get me wrong I love Ireland but the idea of living on mainland Europe and getting up one day hoping in the car and visiting another country and then driving back home has always appealed to my sense of adventure.


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## Steven Barrett

Cervelo said:


> While I do agree with you on this I also feel that purchasing a property that can be rented during the "holiday season", would provide you with a return on your 200k and a place to enjoy during the Irish winter. I know its not as simple as that but it is another option to look at.



Tough market though. Hundreds of thousands of holiday apartments were built during the last boom, with lots of them now for rent. High turnover of renters means high maintenance costs, you need to pay someone on the ground to clean the place every 1/2 weeks. Then there's the high probability of the place getting thrashed by drunk people on holidays. 

I haven't met anyone who has made a success out of renting a foreign holiday home that they also use. 


Steven
www.bluewaterfp.ie


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## Cervelo

SBarrett said:


> Tough market though. Hundreds of thousands of holiday apartments were built during the last boom, with lots of them now for rent. High turnover of renters means high maintenance costs, you need to pay someone on the ground to clean the place every 1/2 weeks. Then there's the high probability of the place getting thrashed by drunk people on holidays.
> 
> I haven't met anyone who has made a success out of renting a foreign holiday home that they also use.
> 
> 
> Steven
> www.bluewaterfp.ie



Agreed it is a tough market and one that would need in my mind a lot of research and careful consideration.
I presume like most things in life, if your disposition is more on the glass been half empty rather then half full, its not something you might consider.


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## Bronte

That's very


SBarrett said:


> I haven't met anyone who has made a success out of renting a foreign holiday home that they also use.



That's very interesting Steven, it's hard enough being an Irish landlord, and an owner here without venturing into the pitfalls of the holiday market combined with two tax jurisdictions and trying to make it work being holiday home and investment.  There was a great thread of all the ins and outs on her a few months ago and that was for a holiday home in Ireland, the consense was stay away. For myself I don't want the hassle, stress and being forced to go to one place because it exists.

My sister has a holiday home in Brittany and I can use that and have never been.


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## Leper

SBarrett is right.  If you decide to pay €200,000 on a property in Spain (or any other sun destination) you are firing money into a cesspit and you will have little or no return.  Have a look at my posts above, you can rent a 2 bedroom apartment in a good location and centrally located for around €600 per month in off season.  You will get better earnings during June, July and August. But, you get comparatively little compared to your spend.  Remember, you have to add in Spanish taxes, maintenance, cleaning, advertising, furniture repairs etc.  If you are facing retirement don't even think of buying in any sun destination even at today's much reduced prices. If you do, you will never get back what you paid during your lifetime.


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## Steven Barrett

Bronte said:


> Steven do you know how much it costs them for the month?  It's very cheap to live there is my understanding.
> 
> I'm hoping to go there for a holiday in about 2 or 3 years.  But that's another matter to going to 'live' for a month.  With no kids.



Hi Bronte

Sorry, I've just seen your post now. I don't know the exact cost of their trip to Thailand, they just tell me their annual holiday expenditure, not the breakdown. I can find out, but it won't be for a month 

Steven
www.bluewaterfp.ie


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## Agent 47

Has anyone looked at residency issues and being away from Ireland longer than 182 days. If one spends 5 months in Italy and another 2 or 3 months abroad, is it watched by revenue? What issues would one face?


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## Gordon Gekko

140 days in Ireland every year makes you tax resident. And if Revenue are looking at someone, it's usually at the higher end and with a view to drawing someone into the tax net rather than out of it.

Regarding the successful use of a property as both a source of income and a holiday home, I know plenty of people who rent out their properties purely to cover the costs associated with the property. Say the service charge is €15k a year and the tax etc adds another €5k. They'd look to cover that.


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## mtk

SBarrett said:


> Hi Bronte
> 
> Sorry, I've just seen your post now. I don't know the exact cost of their trip to Thailand, they just tell me their annual holiday expenditure, not the breakdown. I can find out, but it won't be for a month
> 
> Steven
> www.bluewaterfp.ie



Any idea on the cost steven now they are back I presume?


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## Steven Barrett

Never even thought of asking them. I'll give them a shout and find out.


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## Bronte

That would be great, I'm looking at (in the future) spending 3 weeks in November and ditto in Jan/Feb to get over the winter. I know I can do cheap long term stays in Spain but it's not hot enough.  My logic is somewhere cheap but hot, no heating bills, expensive flight maybe, cheap eating or eating in like I'd do anyway.  So the extra real costs are the flights and accommodation, while saving on heating bills and food.


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## mtk

Great Steven thanks 
Bronte  is three weeks  timescale due to house insurance  lapsing  after  30 days of no occupancy?


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## Bronte

No MTK, that's not why, it's due to commitments in relation to children.  And thought those two trips would solve my winter blues.  Something to look forward to.  Knowing you are going to the heat.  No clue where yet though.  It's also not until over 2 years time.


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## Steven Barrett

I spoke to my client about the cost of Thailand for a month. He said you'd be looking at €7,000 - €8,000. That staying in 5 star hotel with breakfast. He said they'd be eating in decent restaurants at night time and having a few drinks (he said drink was quite expensive over there and the measures quite small). 

If you stayed in a cheaper hotel and watched the spending on food, you could do it a lot cheaper. 


Steven 
www.bluewaterfp.ie


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## Slim

SBarrett said:


> I spoke to my client about the cost of Thailand for a month. He said you'd be looking at €7,000 - €8,000. That staying in 5 star hotel with breakfast. He said they'd be eating in decent restaurants at night time and having a few drinks (he said drink was quite expensive over there and the measures quite small).
> 
> If you stayed in a cheaper hotel and watched the spending on food, you could do it a lot cheaper.



Wow, that is an incredibly high sum. Anecdotally, an acquaintance claims to stay in 5 star(read 3 to 4 star) in Thailand for €20 per night. Even allowing for a large pinch of salt iro said individual, doubling it to €40-€60 per night, you would come in at a lot less than that. You could stay in Lanzarote, in fine style, for about €2,000 for a month. Flights much higher, of course. Not contradicting your client but just amazed at the cost.


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## Cervelo

Slim said:


> Wow, that is an incredibly high sum. Anecdotally, an acquaintance claims to stay in 5 star(read 3 to 4 star) in Thailand for €20 per night. Even allowing for a large pinch of salt iro said individual, doubling it to €40-€60 per night, you would come in at a lot less than that. You could stay in Lanzarote, in fine style, for about €2,000 for a month. Flights much higher, of course. Not contradicting your client but just amazed at the cost.



I would agree with you, it seems a high price to pay but there was reference to a 5* hotel, decent restaurants, and a few expensive drinks and then don't forget the flights which might not have been economy.
As Steven says it can be done cheaper if you want


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## Bronte

I think they must have been flying business class etc.  It's not the idea at all I had in mind.  I was told you could eat street food for next to nothing and that the flights were the most expensive part.

I guess this comes down to each persons budget.  If we were Michael O'Leary 10K for two weeks is nothing.  Most of us on AAM are not in the world.  I'm often amazed on here at how inventive some of the retirees on here are and how they budget so well and are quite happy to do so.

Thanks SBarrett for getting back to us on it.  Also when I think about how much a weekend costs in Ireland it doesn't make the cost of Thailand for your clients outlandish at all.


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## Cervelo

We are currently planning a road trip in America next April/May and based on the last one we did in 2011, I would expect 6k to 8k all in for the month but that's a different holiday to a beach resort type holiday that Stevens clients were on.


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## elcato

Having recently been in Thailand for a short while I concluded that for a middle of the road brand hotel is about 40 to 50 euros a night. If you have two travelling halve that I guess. Good food in a restaurant came to less than a tenner including wine. Beerwise it was about half price for the touristy bars. I didn't venture into the shacks. I'd be confident of getting away with about 2.5k before flights a month.


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## galway_blow_in

just came across this thread now , " one million to retire on @ 50 "

no problem , i can think of several ETF,s ( bonds , equity and REIT,s ) which pay on average 4% per anum , thats 40 k per anum in dividends gross and your capital can also grow 

i could easily live on that


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## galway_blow_in

moneybox said:


> One could do better if they consider going to the Algarve for the winter months, apartments can be rented there for as little as €350 a month. It really wouldn't make financial sense to go to the bother of purchasing an apartment when you can rent there so cheaply.



it certainly would not pay you to buy , are you serious , you can rent an apartment for 350 euro per month ?


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## Slim

Cervelo said:


> We are currently planning a road trip in America next April/May and based on the last one we did in 2011, I would expect 6k to 8k all in for the month but that's a different holiday to a beach resort type holiday that Stevens clients were on.



I have a similar idea in mind for 2018. I am looking at California, Nevada, South Utah, driving the National parks and stopping in San Francisco and Las Vegas (briefly). Would you care to share your plans? Maybe a separate thread?


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## Cervelo

Slim said:


> I have a similar idea in mind for 2018. I am looking at California, Nevada, South Utah, driving the National parks and stopping in San Francisco and Las Vegas (briefly). Would you care to share your plans? Maybe a separate thread?



American Sky do a nice California fly drive package, that can be tweaked to suit, that we did in Oct 2010
With regards to the 2016 trip, its in its early stages atm but its going to be San Fran, Seattle, across the top states to Boston taking in all the sights along the way.
If people are interested I can post more details when we've got a better picture of what we want to see along the way


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## Gordon Gekko

South Africa wouldn't be a bad shout either. Their summer is our winter (obviously), and the cost of living is ridiculously low for a Euro based individual. Great food and great wine also, and a similar timezone.


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## Cervelo

galway_blow_in said:


> just came across this thread now , " one million to retire on @ 50 "
> 
> no problem , i can think of several ETF,s ( bonds , equity and REIT,s ) which pay on average 4% per anum , thats 40 k per anum in dividends gross and your capital can also grow
> 
> i could easily live on that



Well that's the plan, currently my ETFs are running about 4% down on April 15 with a max low of 10% during Nov/Dec, hopefully the coming year will fair better


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## Boyd

galway_blow_in said:


> no problem , i can think of several ETF,s ( bonds , equity and REIT,s ) which pay on average 4% per anum , thats 40 k per anum in dividends gross and your capital can also grow


Would you care to share your 4%-dividend-paying ETFs for the benefit of everyone?


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## Slim

Cervelo said:


> American Sky do a nice California fly drive package, that can be tweaked to suit, that we did in Oct 2010
> With regards to the 2016 trip, its in its early stages atm but its going to be San Fran, Seattle, across the top states to Boston taking in all the sights along the way.
> If people are interested I can post more details when we've got a better picture of what we want to see along the way


Yes, l have been looking at America Sky's offerings and would hope to base my own trip on one of those. Best of luck with yours.


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## Tintagel

For me I need temperatures between 15 degrees and 23 degrees. The thoughts of South Africa or Thailand do not really appeal to me. They are to far away. If I could get these temperatures in the South of Spain I would be happy during January and February and March. Strangely the other side of Christmas is not really a problem for me. It's January, February and March .....and this year April that I dislike.
I also like the idea of 3 weeks away and then a weeks visit home (to check on things, family, bills, house etc) then back for another 3 weeks and so forth. By doing it this way I can choose a different location for each 3 week stint. Then explore the surrounding areas during each 3 weeks.


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## Gordon Gekko

So what about the Canaries or Madeira?


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## galway_blow_in

username123 said:


> Would you care to share your 4%-dividend-paying ETFs for the benefit of everyone?



vanguard long term corporate bond ( market cap of $1.5 billion )

vanguard REIT index ( market cap of $29 billion )

wisdom tree emerging markets ( market cap of $ 1.35 billion )

IUKD = ishares uk dividend fund ( market cap of £814 million )

city of london investment trust ( market cap of £ 1.22 billion )


on average , all of the above pay over 4% after costs


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## galway_blow_in

Tintagel said:


> For me I need temperatures between 15 degrees and 23 degrees. The thoughts of South Africa or Thailand do not really appeal to me. They are to far away. If I could get these temperatures in the South of Spain I would be happy during January and February and March. Strangely the other side of Christmas is not really a problem for me. It's January, February and March .....and this year April that I dislike.
> I also like the idea of 3 weeks away and then a weeks visit home (to check on things, family, bills, house etc) then back for another 3 weeks and so forth. By doing it this way I can choose a different location for each 3 week stint. Then explore the surrounding areas during each 3 weeks.



thailand is incredibly humid


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## moneybox

galway_blow_in said:


> it certainly would not pay you to buy , are you serious , you can rent an apartment for 350 euro per month ?



I went to Albufeira in January for two weeks, booked a studio apartment from booking.com when we got there we got upgraded to a fab one bedroom over looking the shore for the same price. We ended up staying another week and the total cost came to  approx €25 per night.  I met Americans there and they told me that they got their apt for €350 for the month from a site  called holidays.com or something similar.  So yes you don't need loads of money to be able to afford to go off for a month or two during our cold/damp winters, just wish we could have more holidays so we could stay for longer. we have a while to go before retirement.


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## Leper

Galway-Blow seems surprised that you can rent an apartment for €350 per month during the off season.  You can and you can even get an apartment cheaper if you do some more work.  But, you will be charged for utilities (water, electricity, refuse, public lighting, community fees etc). So before you decide to jump on the first plane out of Dublin for Portugal or the Costas - Stop - Think - Ensure what you thought you were buying is what you bought. Play safe and do not look a gift horse in the mouth.

The biggest mistake some people make on wintering in Portugal/Spain is renting in a ghost town.  These towns are flowing with activity during July and August and nearly shut down completely come October through to May. If there is no good public transport service you may need a car even for the weekly shopping.

The going rate in a non-ghost-town good resort is €650 per month + electricity cost (circa €100.00) for a good two bedroom apartment centrally located. All the services are nearby, supermarkets, shops, restaurants, public transport, wi-fi, beach, level walks etc. Don't scrimp and pay dearer later, know what you are buying.


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## Gordon Gekko

Mainland Portugal isn't that warm during winter either, and as Leper has pointed out, it can be like a ghost-town.


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## Bronte

moneybox said:


> I went to Albufeira in January for two weeks, .


But was it warm enough?  And of course flights are very reasonable especially as you can just pick a flight that is not at a peak costly time.


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## galway_blow_in

Leper said:


> Galway-Blow seems surprised that you can rent an apartment for €350 per month during the off season.  You can and you can even get an apartment cheaper if you do some more work.  But, you will be charged for utilities (water, electricity, refuse, public lighting, community fees etc). So before you decide to jump on the first plane out of Dublin for Portugal or the Costas - Stop - Think - Ensure what you thought you were buying is what you bought. Play safe and do not look a gift horse in the mouth.
> 
> The biggest mistake some people make on wintering in Portugal/Spain is renting in a ghost town.  These towns are flowing with activity during July and August and nearly shut down completely come October through to May. If there is no good public transport service you may need a car even for the weekly shopping.
> 
> The going rate in a non-ghost-town good resort is €650 per month + electricity cost (circa €100.00) for a good two bedroom apartment centrally located. All the services are nearby, supermarkets, shops, restaurants, public transport, wi-fi, beach, level walks etc. Don't scrimp and pay dearer later, know what you are buying.




ive no intention of moving to portugal for the winter months , its not an option for me , was just surprised it costs so little


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## moneybox

Bronte said:


> But was it warm enough?  And of course flights are very reasonable especially as you can just pick a flight that is not at a peak costly time.



Temperatures averaged around 17 or 18 degrees sometimes going up to 20 degrees. T-shirt weather during the day, needed a sweater in the evenings.  Flights were incredible cheap. We had bright blue cloudless skies and long sunny days. The beaches were nearly deserted with mainly elderly people going for strolls.  They come down from Northern Europe, Canada and America to spend four months there from October to late February.  I used to come here with the kids when smaller but there is no comparison to what it is like in the winter time.  Great if you just want to get away from the cold at home and enjoy a few quiet weeks away from the rat race and the non stop incessant media coverage of Irish Water .  I intend to try Malta next winter!


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## JoeRoberts

Slim said:


> I have a similar idea in mind for 2018. I am looking at California, Nevada, South Utah, driving the National parks and stopping in San Francisco and Las Vegas (briefly). Would you care to share your plans? Maybe a separate thread?


Hiring a motorhome/RV is great for a long road trip if you would enjoy the lifestyle. Especially in the areas you mentioned. Accomadation wise it is not much cheaper than hotels and hire car but you get to see a different side of America, and meet lots of people at campsites. And the great advantage is you can cook your own food / make a cup of tea as and when you like. Eating out every night is tiring and expensive and you end up with a lot of fried food. For a long trip the food savings are significant.


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## Slim

JoeRoberts said:


> Hiring a motorhome/RV is great for a long road trip if you would enjoy the lifestyle. Especially in the areas you mentioned. Accomadation wise it is not much cheaper than hotels and hire car but you get to see a different side of America, and meet lots of people at campsites. And the great advantage is you can cook your own food / make a cup of tea as and when you like. Eating out every night is tiring and expensive and you end up with a lot of fried food. For a long trip the food savings are significant.


That's an interesting suggestion and one I have considered previously. We used to own a motorhome and travelled extensively in Europe with it. For the US road trip, I think an RV would be too slow, hard to fuel and with a two or three week window, it would prevent us from completing the trip from LA - San Francisco - Yosemite - Death Valley - Las Vegas - Grand Canyon - South Utah/Arizona - fly back.

Can you tell us a bit more of your experience in that type of trip?


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## mtk

,,


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## JoeRoberts

Slim said:


> That's an interesting suggestion and one I have considered previously. We used to own a motorhome and travelled extensively in Europe with it. For the US road trip, I think an RV would be too slow, hard to fuel and with a two or three week window, it would prevent us from completing the trip from LA - San Francisco - Yosemite - Death Valley - Las Vegas - Grand Canyon - South Utah/Arizona - fly back.
> 
> Can you tell us a bit more of your experience in that type of trip?



Have done 7 or 8 trips usually about 12 nights at a time. Typical mileage covered would be about 150m / day. Never found it slow but we weren't in a hurry. The roads are very good and wide unless climbing mountains so no real difference to car speeds. Bit awkward if in cities for parking so we tended to avoid. Most site seeing places have dedicated places for RV to park so no worry there. Always took a Class C MH so about 10 mpg ( USA gallon is smaller than ours) . But fuel is cheap anyway and big price variation on where you fill up. Generally need to pickup and drop off same place but one way is possible for a fee. Cruise America/Roadbear /El Monte the main renters but we have used  most of the time as they give a better deal to oversea visitors than you get direct with the renter. Seasonality makes a big difference to price. We buy our own cheap basic cutlery etc on arrival in Walmart then throw away rather than paying rental fee for it. If from overseas can't pickup on day of arrival for safety due to jet lag. We would normally add 2 nights at the end or start, with a car and hotel.
Good choice of places to stay - County Parks ($10)/ State Parks($20) then private campgrounds like KOA and Yogi bear etc but more expensive, from ($30 to $50). I like the Sate Parks as a good balance.


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## Cervelo

I do think the RV holiday in the states is a great one with loads of places to stay like JoeRoberts has suggested and the freedom to come and go as you please is definitely a plus but I feel for the type of holiday that I'm planning and have done and Slim is thinking about, a car is more suitable especially when a big part of the trip would involve overnight stays in the big cities where a RV would be more of a hassle.


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## Slim

Useful information, Joe, thanks.


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