# Should I fix boiler prior to selling house?



## Art (1 Nov 2006)

The gas boiler in a house that I am hoping to sell is totally bankjaxed and as a result the heating is not working. I had a plumber out this morning and he informed me that the whole thing would have to be replaced at a cost of €1500. I am just wondering if I should bother replacing it given the cost involved. I am aware that the surveyor will almost certainly pick this up during the course of the survey but surely this will not cause the entire sale to fall through? The rest of the house is in very good condition.


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## whathome (1 Nov 2006)

Are you still showing the house or is it sale-agreed?

I wouldn't bother fixing it, there's a chance that the surveyor may not run the heating system.  The plumbers estimate may not be accurate so if it comes up as a major issue for the purchaser, I would offer €750 as a gesture towards resolving it.

If you're not sale-agreed and have viewings planned, is there a separate fire in the living room that you could use to warm the place up a bit before viewings?


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## Dreamerb (1 Nov 2006)

Depends on where you are, how much you're looking for, etc. My gut instinct would be that it's worth doing the repair, because a buyer's perception that there are essential repairs required can have them reduce the offer price quite significantly.


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## Ballyman (1 Nov 2006)

The surveyor shouldn't have to pick this up as you should have informed the purchaser yourself.

As you haven't been honest with your purchasers, you have two choices. Knock €1500 off the final price if the purchaser agrees or get it fixed. How difficult is that to figure out?


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## Ballyman (1 Nov 2006)

whathome said:


> If you're not sale-agreed and have viewings planned, is there a separate fire in the living room that you could use to warm the place up a bit before viewings?


 
Are you serious?? 

What would you feel like if you bought a house and moved into it and the vendor hadn't told you the heating was banjaxed ? 
What has this country come to.


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## Petal (1 Nov 2006)

After we bought the house I got a gas company out to check the heating system and although it was working it wasn't properly installed and about 20 years old and we were advised to upgrade it as soon as possible. Cost us a good 3 grand for the new boiler and work etc... If I had known beforehand I would have asked for some money off the purchase price. Would have helped us a big deal and it's not really that much for the vendor. I would knock 2K of the purchase price, they will save a good bit of interest this way too!


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## Art (1 Nov 2006)

whathome said:


> Are you still showing the house or is it sale-agreed?


 
I am still showing the house. Good point about putting a fire down though.


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## Sarah W (1 Nov 2006)

A reasoned argument from Ballyman yet again. I think that either the surveyor or the solicitor's pre-contract questions will flag up that there's a problem with the heating. If there are similar properties for sale in your area in the same price range with no problems then you are immediately putting yourself at a disadvantage so you should either get the heating fixed or reduce the price to reflect the work that needs to be done.

Sarah

www.rea.ie


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## Art (1 Nov 2006)

Petal said:


> I would knock 2K of the purchase price, they will save a good bit of interest this way too!


 
I have knocked 40k off the purchase price already!!!


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## whathome (1 Nov 2006)

Ballyman said:


> What would you feel like if you bought a house and moved into it and the vendor hadn't told you the heating was banjaxed ?


 
It actually happened to me on the last house I bought.  I had the heating fixed, no big deal.  It's buyer beware on property, it's up to the purchaser to do a survey.  Vendors don't make lists of everything that needs to be fixed.


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## Ballyman (1 Nov 2006)

Sarah W said:


> A reasoned argument from Ballyman yet again.


 
Thank you but I don't do reasoned.


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## whathome (1 Nov 2006)

If someone was selling an unoccupied ex-investment property and wanted to prevent a gas heating system from being tested during a survey - could they not just call the gas company and have the house disconnected prior to the survey?

I'm not suggesting this is what Art should do however!


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## Art (1 Nov 2006)

whathome said:


> If someone was selling an unoccupied ex-investment property and wanted to prevent a gas heating system from being tested during a survey - could they not just call the gas company and have the house disconnected prior to the survey?
> 
> I'm not suggesting this is what Art should do however!


 
Not that I would dream of doing anything like this whathome . What do you think I am like??? Is this what the country has come to??


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## ClubMan (1 Nov 2006)

Ballyman said:


> Are you serious??
> 
> What would you feel like if you bought a house and moved into it and the vendor hadn't told you the heating was banjaxed ?
> What has this country come to.


Perhaps it's come to people not employing the old caveat emptor rule? Personally I'd probably be inclined to come clean but there is certainly no onus on the vendor to tell prospective buyers. Buyers are buying the property as seen and it's up to them to get the place surveyed.


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## liteweight (1 Nov 2006)

ClubMan said:


> Perhaps it's come to people not employing the old caveat emptor rule? Personally I'd probably be inclined to come clean but there is certainly no onus on the vendor to tell prospective buyers. Buyers are buying the property as seen and it's up to them to get the place surveyed.



I suspect they don't apply the rule when they fall in love with a place. Whatever about small things left undone or in need of repair, I'd be worried about gas central heating. Gas is an explosive substance as well as poisonous, so I'd be very worried that the new owner might blow him/herself up, thinking they just didn't know how to use the system rather than it not working.


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## whathome (1 Nov 2006)

liteweight said:


> so I'd be very worried that the new owner might blow him/herself up


 
That old trick of lighting a match to see inside the gas pipe? I wonder how many people would start to pull a gas boiler apart themselves?

It's always advisable to have a gas heating system serviced professionally when you purchase a second-hand property.


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## Ballyman (1 Nov 2006)

It would be terrible if the faulty boiler caused a spark and ignited the gas and your house burned to the ground before you could sell it. Terrible altogether. Isn't Karma great.


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## liteweight (1 Nov 2006)

whathome said:


> That old trick of lighting a match to see inside the gas pipe? I wonder how many people would start to pull a gas boiler apart themselves?
> 
> It's always advisable to have a gas heating system serviced professionally when you purchase a second-hand property.



I agree it's always advisable but lots of people have a go at things themselves particularly when faced with a big bill shortly after moving. Perhaps I'm overly cautious. I was around at the time the apartment block on Serpentine Avenue collapsed due to a gas leak in the basement. No one lit a match...it was a radiographer returning from night shift on New Year's Eve, she simply turned on the light switch. Her husband was in bed and presumed unconscious by the time she came home. They were the only two in the building and of course both died. They had left their young son with a minder for the night. Better safe than sorry I say.


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## CCOVICH (1 Nov 2006)

Ballyman said:
			
		

> It would be terrible if the faulty boiler caused a spark and ignited the gas and your house burned to the ground before you could sell it. Terrible altogether. Isn't Karma great.


 
Yes-let's hope those who steal broadband and evade stamp duty also experience karma.


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## Art (1 Nov 2006)

CCOVICH said:


> Yes-let's hope those who steal broadband and evade stamp duty also experience karma.


 
Precisely CCOVICH, judge not and thou shalt not be judged.


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## Meathman99 (1 Nov 2006)

Art said:


> I have knocked 40k off the purchase price already!!!



Is this because the market is in decline??   If so  maybe installing a new boiler might be a good investment.  Or upgrading the attic insulation.  

The caveat  Buyer Beware is a disgrace.   If somebody knows that the product they are selling is not of saleable quality surely they should point this out from the beginning.


If you buy a barbeque from any hardware and it doesnt work  you get a refund.  What genius thought that buyer beware was a good idea??   Sure "Buyer declare" is a much fairer system


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## liteweight (1 Nov 2006)

I think I saw on another thread that when selling the vendor has to stipulate anything major that's wrong. If Art sells his house with central heating and it is later found defective, the buyer may have a comeback.


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## batty (1 Nov 2006)

Ona practical note its beginning to get very cold and no heat for a few days will lead to a very cold house.  A very cold house would put me off!


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## whathome (1 Nov 2006)

liteweight said:


> I think I saw on another thread that when selling the vendor has to stipulate anything major that's wrong.


 
I have never heard of this, are you sure? Can you find the thread?

I've seen so many older properties where there's no way the vendor could even begin to stipulate everything major that needs fixing.
On many executor sales, the vendor doesn't have a clue what condition the property is in.


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## whathome (1 Nov 2006)

Meathman99 said:


> If you buy a barbeque from any hardware and it doesnt work you get a refund.


 
Some people might say that there's a slight difference between a barbeque and a house in fairness


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## Miles (1 Nov 2006)

whathome said:


> in fairness


 
Wheres the fairness in selling a house with a dodgy heating system??


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## whathome (1 Nov 2006)

Miles said:


> Wheres the fairness in selling a house with a dodgy heating system??


 
What about the fairness of selling a house that needs to be rewired? Houses are sold requiring all kinds of repair. There's no guarantee or money back offer.


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## Miles (1 Nov 2006)

Romantic Irelands' dead and gone.......


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## ClubMan (1 Nov 2006)

Miles said:


> Romantic Irelands' dead and gone.......


Like proper use of the apostrophe?


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## ClubMan (1 Nov 2006)

liteweight said:


> I suspect they don't apply the rule when they fall in love with a place.


Touching but tough all the same.


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## Dreamerb (1 Nov 2006)

whathome said:


> What about the fairness of selling a house that needs to be rewired? Houses are sold requiring all kinds of repair. There's no guarantee or money back offer.


 
I think what's getting people's backs up is the OP's apparent hope that he'll in some way "get away with it" or it just won't be noticed. With full disclosure, a price on the job, and an indication that the price has already dropped significantly, that's an entirely different story. A little savvy marketing, and it can even be presented as a great bargain. 

I can't find anything on specific obligations to disclose issues like that, though I suppose there could be something in the Law Society Requisitions on Title. Any of the solicitors around know that?


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## Dreamerb (1 Nov 2006)

ClubMan said:


> Like proper use of the apostrophe?


 
Go on, apostrophise him!


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## ClubMan (1 Nov 2006)

Dreamerb said:


> I think what's getting people's backs up is the OP's apparent hope that he'll in some way "get away with it" or it just won't be noticed.


That is not at all apparent from the original post:


Art said:


> The gas boiler in a house that I am hoping to sell is totally bankjaxed and as a result the heating is not working. I had a plumber out this morning and he informed me that the whole thing would have to be replaced at a cost of €1500. I am just wondering if I should bother replacing it given the cost involved. I am aware that the surveyor will almost certainly pick this up during the course of the survey but surely this will not cause the entire sale to fall through? The rest of the house is in very good condition.


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## liteweight (1 Nov 2006)

whathome said:


> I have never heard of this, are you sure? Can you find the thread?
> 
> I've seen so many older properties where there's no way the vendor could even begin to stipulate everything major that needs fixing.
> On many executor sales, the vendor doesn't have a clue what condition the property is in.



http://www.askaboutmoney.com/showthread.php?t=40181

I think it's taken for granted that older properties might need rewiring or re-plumbing etc. The problem arises when the house looks fine, the purchaser is lead to believe it's fine but later finds out something which should have been disclosed.


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## liteweight (1 Nov 2006)

ClubMan said:


> Touching but tough all the same.



You're a hard man!


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## Dreamerb (1 Nov 2006)

ClubMan said:


> That is not at all apparent from the original post:


 
"I am aware that the surveyor will _*almost certainly*_ pick this up during the course of the survey but surely this will not cause the entire sale to fall through?"

- emphasis added, but I think that's why one _might _have interpreted a hope to get away with something. I did say _apparent _hope, not having particularly taken that view myself. Nonetheless, point taken and I trust OP has not taken offence.


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## ClubMan (1 Nov 2006)

liteweight said:


> You're a hard man!


No - just a realist when it comes to the cut and thrust of the market - property or otherwise.


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## whathome (1 Nov 2006)

liteweight said:


> The problem arises when the house looks fine, the purchaser is lead to believe it's fine but later finds out something which should have been disclosed.


 
How it looks is irrelevant.  Plenty of older houses look great but take a fortune to sort out.


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## ClubMan (1 Nov 2006)

liteweight said:


> The problem arises when the house looks fine, the purchaser is lead to believe it's fine but later finds out something which should have been disclosed.


That's why buyers should always get a good detailed structural survey done especially on second hand properties. It's not the vendor's job to point out things that may need remedial work although some may do for their own reasons.


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## liteweight (1 Nov 2006)

whathome said:


> How it looks is irrelevant.  Plenty of older houses look great but take a fortune to sort out.



Agreed. I didn't mean only to go on looks...it's when vendor has assured a potential buyer that there are no major problems and, according to the aforementioned thread, they have stated in writing, on the form supplied  to buyer's solictor, that all is ok, I think a buyer might have a comeback.  Personally, I'd have all the necessary surveys done.


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## CCOVICH (2 Nov 2006)

FWIW, a suvery I had carried out recently recommended getting additional electrical and plumbing surveys, so I wouldn't be sure that a building surveyor would catch a faulty boiler.


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## Ballyman (2 Nov 2006)

CCOVICH said:


> Yes-let's hope those who steal broadband and evade stamp duty also experience karma.


 
1. I didn't evade stamp duty. 

2. It was sharing broadband.

3. I was neither hurting or taking anyone for a ride.  

I have morals. Unlike some of the "clients" on here.


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## CCOVICH (2 Nov 2006)

Ballyman said:


> 1. I didn't evade stamp duty.


 
You did-you even admit it is illegal.



			
				Ballyman said:
			
		

> 2. It was sharing broadband.


 
Does sharing mean 'using without the owner's permisssion'?




			
				Ballyman said:
			
		

> I have morals. Unlike some of the "clients" on here.


 
AAM doesn't have 'clients' (whatever that implies), AAM has members. Some members clearly have their own distinct ideas of morality, which they are perfectly entitled to.


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## Ballyman (2 Nov 2006)

CCOVICH said:


> You did-you even admit it is illegal.


That house fell through. I didn't evade SD.


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## Miles (2 Nov 2006)

CCOVICH said:


> AAM doesn't have 'clients' (whatever that implies),


 
The urban dictionary has a definition of client as ' Person severely lacking in intelligence and common sense '


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## lff12 (2 Nov 2006)

Art said:


> The gas boiler in a house that I am hoping to sell is totally bankjaxed and as a result the heating is not working. I had a plumber out this morning and he informed me that the whole thing would have to be replaced at a cost of €1500. I am just wondering if I should bother replacing it given the cost involved. I am aware that the surveyor will almost certainly pick this up during the course of the survey but surely this will not cause the entire sale to fall through? The rest of the house is in very good condition.


 
I don't think they check this unless there is oil in the boiler.
A friend of mine recently bought a house only to discover not only was the boiler out of service - not only had it NEVER worked (despite the house being rented out for 2 years by its previous owner) - but most of the boilers in the location were also wired incorrectly on installation and so didn't work.

Incredible as it may seem - an entire estate was built with faulty boiler installations! Plumber said he'd made a fortune out here and whoever installed them had made a haims of it.


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## Meathman99 (2 Nov 2006)

I have seen a number of snag lists prepared by a number of different companies.  On one no key to a window was available.  This was stated on sheet.  For the cost of a snag list a surveyor cant be expected to wait an hour to check if the heating is working ok.


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## Bambo (5 Nov 2006)

I find this whole thread rather disturbing.

Yes, there is a good chance the surveyor will not check that the heating is working. The buyers will probably assume it is in order.

However - this is very dishonest and a fairly major fault with a house IMO. Heating is important and its very unfair to let a buyer move in and have no working heating. 

If I were you I would inform any interested buyers that the heating is not in operation but that you are willing to offer a sum towards the repair. Do the right thing - this isnt like a mark on the wall or scratch on the floor - heating is fairly essential.


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