# Attempted break in Damage to Door - Who is responsible LLord or Tenant?



## Inca (11 Oct 2010)

Hi All,
I let a property to excellent tenants and I consider myself to be a fair and reasonable landlord.

There was an attempted break in at the weekend and quite a lot of damage was done to the front entrance door. Thankfully the perpetrators were unable to gain access.

The door will have to be replaced at a cost of approximately €800. *Who is responsible for paying this charge i.e. the tenant or the landlord? *

One part of me says it is the tenant's responsibility as this is beyond normal "wear & tear". They are responsible for the property during the tenancy agreement.

The other part of me fully appreciates that this was not the fault of the tenants - they did nothing wrong and were just unfortunate to be targeted by burglars. I appreciate that this is a large bill for anyone to meet.

I had considered splitting the cost.

I am of the opinion that the tenants think it is not their responsibility as they or their guests did not cause the damage. They are now suggesting that they are going to leave as they do not feel safe. This would be breaking the terms of the tenancy agreement as it is a fixed term lease. 

I think it is totally unreasonable for me to pick up the total bill for the damage and have to suffer the costs involved in finding new tenants etc.
What would you do given the circumstances? 

I hold a deposit, the property is registered and block insurance is in place, the excess on the insurance is €1000 so there is no point in submitting a claim. It is a good area and a burglary is out of character so there is as much chance of a similar incident happening again here as anywhere else.

Thanks for your comments.


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## nediaaa (11 Oct 2010)

the door is part of the fabric of the building and the damage was done by someone other than your tenants so wear and tear does not come in to it. If tiles fell off the roof would you ask the tenants to pay for it?
 I am  a landlord myself and would not consider asking my tenants to pay for it


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## Berni (11 Oct 2010)

It would be the landlord's responsibility. 

Most residential tenancy agreements contain a clause similar to this under the Landlord's obligations: 


> The Landlord agrees to maintain the structure of the building and maintain the interior and fittings to the standard that existed at the commencement of this Agreement


It is generally only commercial lettings where the tenant would assume responsiblilty for building mainenance.


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## NHG (11 Oct 2010)

Landlords responsibility I would assume (landlord myself), insurance should cover it


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## mathepac (11 Oct 2010)

Crystal clear - it is the landlord's responsibility to repair the door, either via an insurance claim or from cash-flow.

If the tenants wish to move out they have the legal option of sub-letting the balance of their lease.


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## Murfnm (11 Oct 2010)

Same thing happened to me when I was a tenant, attempted break-in, kicked in the front door, the landlord covered the repairs.


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## dereko1969 (11 Oct 2010)

Landlord all the way, I'm surprised you're even asking the question to be honest.


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## niceoneted (11 Oct 2010)

Agree with all the other posters.


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## Inca (11 Oct 2010)

" If tiles fell off the roof would you ask the tenants to pay for it?"

Fair point - I think the cost involved has clouded my judgement. I obviously had not planned on a bill of this size.


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## samhugh (11 Oct 2010)

*Is covered*

is covered under most insurance policies. just call your house insurance company and check. Will be a deductible but should cover most of it.


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## Maynooth (11 Oct 2010)

With a 1K excess you are paying the cost for getting a cheap insurance policy. 

You might also want to reconsider this point.



> I consider myself to be a fair and reasonable landlord.


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## Inca (11 Oct 2010)

Thanks Berni for the comment - I see that a door would be considered part of the structure. I will cover the cost myself and take it on the chin.


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## Inca (11 Oct 2010)

Re: Insurance. The management agent organises a block policy on behalf of the management company. I in turn pay a service charge to cover the cost of same.
As I understand it an excess of €1000 plus is fairly standard for block policies so I think it is unfair to suggest it is a cheap insurance policy! Am I wrong?

Re: other comment Maynooth that I should consider whether I am "fair and reasonable". I posted the comment to look for advice as I wanted to do the right thing given the circumstances. None of us have all the answers.
I think it is acting responsibly to ask others for advice so I have not changed my views on my own character.


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## sam h (11 Oct 2010)

Inca, FWIW, I think you are being fair & reasonable.  

You were unsure if you were liable & took it onboard when most indicated you are.  The poster who indicated you weren't seems to have a thing about landlords, have a look back on old posts.


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## mercman (11 Oct 2010)

If the Management Company will have to make repairs to the front door caused by the burglelary, surely the damage to your door is part of the same incident and your costs can be joined with the MC claim. Therefore you might give this consideration and your bill could well be reduced. 

Failing this find out who does the repairs to the common areas, and they might undertake your repairs at a lessor price than a one off job to A N Other contractor.


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## Inca (11 Oct 2010)

sam h said:


> have a look back on old posts.


 
Thanks Sam for the advice - will do as advice based on the facts presented is welcomed but advice based on clouded thinking is best ignored.


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## Inca (11 Oct 2010)

mercman said:


> If the Management Company will have to make repairs to the front door caused by the burglelary, surely the damage to your door is part of the same incident and your costs can be joined with the MC claim. Therefore you might give this consideration and your bill could well be reduced.
> Thanks mercman - had not considered that angle. If the damage caused was say €3,000 it would go through the insurance but I guess I would still have to pay the excess personally i.e. €1,000. I don't think it would be right to expect other members of the Management Company to pay towards the figure under the excess.
> 
> Failing this find out who does the repairs to the common areas, and they might undertake your repairs at a lessor price than a one off job to A N Other contractor.


I had thought about this ... whoever does the work will have to purchase a new door from the original supplier as it is an external door and will have to be in keeping with the other doors in the development. I went direct to the original manufacturer and have ordered up a new one.


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## Inca (11 Oct 2010)

mercman said:


> If the Management Company will have to make repairs to the front door caused by the burglelary, surely the damage to your door is part of the same incident and your costs can be joined with the MC claim. .


 
Mercman - just reread your note. Actually there is only one door as it is an own door apartment with no common lobby. Similar situation to any three bed semi-d.
I am going to sort it out myself rather than going through the Managing Agent / Management Company. Thanks again.


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## Marietta (11 Oct 2010)

Inca - Were there any cameras in operation, the people that should pay for this are of course the culprits.  It is wrong that either landlord or tenents should be faced with this sort of bill.  Report the matter to the guards and maybe witnesses will come forward, if they did that much damage they must have been hammering at the door for quite some time.


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## Inca (11 Oct 2010)

Marietta said:


> Inca - Were there any cameras in operation, the people that should pay for this are of course the culprits. It is wrong that either landlord or tenents should be faced with this sort of bill. Report the matter to the guards and maybe witnesses will come forward, if they did that much damage they must have been hammering at the door for quite some time.


 
Hi Marietta,
no cameras unfortunately. I rang the guards - they asked me "Was there any point in calling as the culprits did not gain entry?" I spoke with all the neighbours but no-one witnessed anything suspicious or heard anything.
Most of the damage was caused by a crowbar being wedged between the door and the frame rather than a "hammering" action.
The only unusual thing is that a door to door window cleaner was calling to each apartment during the day asking whether people wanted their windows cleaned. I guess he could have "tools" inside his cleaning bucket and use this service as a front to see who was at home etc...
I could be way off track here - might be just a guy trying to earn an honest living but neighbours did say that "he looked a bit dodgy"!
Coincidence - who knows but a possibility never the less. Sad that you have to be aware of everyone these days!


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## samhugh (11 Oct 2010)

*culprits did not gain entry*

Just because they did not "gain entry" they still committed a crime. "attempted burglary is also a crime. 2nd they would be responsible for damages as well. Would at least have police look into it. you never know maybe they tried the same somewhere else. can't hurt to file a report


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## elcato (12 Oct 2010)

Dont forget you can offset this cost against your tax bill at the end of the year.


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## MrMan (12 Oct 2010)

Maynooth said:


> With a 1K excess you are paying the cost for getting a cheap insurance policy.
> 
> You might also want to reconsider this point.


If more people asked questions before taking action things would run allot smoother in general.

OP as long as your sure that this was in no way connected with your tenants, then move quickly to get it sorted an reassure them that their safety is important to you.


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## ajapale (12 Oct 2010)

OT posts relegated to LOS


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