# Who pays credit card debt upon death?



## sitstill (17 Sep 2013)

My dad passed away earlier this year and when he did, he owed €3000 on a credit card to AIB.  He had owed a lot more put had been paying it steadily until he passed away suddenly. The credit card was in his own name and had nothing to do with my mother although they did have a joint current acount with AIB.

The bank now says that she has to repay the cc debt in full and that they can just take it from her account. He left no will as the death was sudden and only had about €1000 in the bank as the both were OAPs. 

Does she have to repay the debt?


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## 44brendan (17 Sep 2013)

This makes no sense. Did your mother receive a letter from the bank stating this? If so the matter should be referred immediately back to their complaints dept as they have no right whatsoever to demand this payment from your mother unless she was a joint party to the credit card account. they can certainly make a claim against your fathers estate and all correspondence re such a claim should be directed to your fathers executors. However as he has left no will and if he has no assets you can inform the Bank of this. In reality they will not be in a position to pursue a claim if there are no assets in the estate!


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## commonsense (17 Sep 2013)

If there is no estate then the debt dies with your Father. (sorry for your loss by the way).

Your mother is not liable unless she provided a personal guarantee.

Write to the bank and tell them there is no estate and your mother is not liable for the debt.

Check out  the citizens advice site for more information.


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## sitstill (17 Sep 2013)

Thanks for the replies.  I wrote to AIB informing them of his passing and told them that he had no will or assets or estate and that while I am not an executor, they could correspond with me over the matter.  That was 2 weeks ago and no word.

My mother went to her branch yesterday to inform them of his death and  remove his name from the current account and they told her that they already knew he was dead and that they would be able to force her to repay the outstanding debt.  They told her to expect a letter to this effect.


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## Jim2007 (17 Sep 2013)

sitstill said:


> I wrote to AIB informing them of his passing and told them that he had no will or assets or estate.....



I'm your loss, but I think you'll have a hard time convincing the bank that you father left absolutely nothing... in this day and age most people own some assets of some type: car, furniture, bank balance and so on... your father's creditors have a right to be paid before anyone takes over such assets, so unless you can show that your father owned absolutely nothing at the time of his dead who ever wants to take over those assets will most likely have to pay up.


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## commonsense (17 Sep 2013)

sitstill said:


> Thanks for the replies.  I wrote to AIB informing them of his passing and told them that he had no will or assets or estate and that while I am not an executor, they could correspond with me over the matter.  That was 2 weeks ago and no word.
> 
> My mother went to her branch yesterday to inform them of his death and  remove his name from the current account and they told her that they already knew he was dead and that they would be able to force her to repay the outstanding debt.  They told her to expect a letter to this effect.



According to AIB T&C's of their click Credit Card:

"63. On the death or legal disability of the Cardholder, the Outstanding Balance on the Account will become a liability of the estate of the Cardholder and all Cards must be returned to us cut in two (through the signature box, magnetic strip and Chip)."


You may need to point this out to them.


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## Sunny (17 Sep 2013)

Sounds like there was a joint current account. You might want to ask them to show you the terms and conditions but there might be right of set off on the account i.e. they can set off the credit card debt with funds from the current account. Not saying this is the case and they might be chancing their arm but it might explain it. Sounds like it has been very badly handled by the bank and you should kick up a fuss. Make sure everything is put in writing from now on.


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## 44brendan (17 Sep 2013)

There is an automatic right of set off in respect of all bank accounts. this is a general banking rule. however this right would not be evident in a case where 1 account was in a sole name and another in a joint name. It now appears that the current account is in the sole name of OP's mother so there is no way that a bank could apply any retrospective set off of a credit balance in the current account against the credit card debt. You should compalin to the Bank about the conversation with your mother. they had noright to tell her that she was liable to pay the outstanding amount!


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## commonsense (17 Sep 2013)

Sunny said:


> Sounds like there was a joint current account. You might want to ask them to show you the terms and conditions but there might be right of set off on the account i.e. they can set off the credit card debt with funds from the current account. Not saying this is the case and they might be chancing their arm but it might explain it. Sounds like it has been very badly handled by the bank and you should kick up a fuss. Make sure everything is put in writing from now on.



They really need to see the T&C's but according to CA: (You could be right about them chancing their arm.)

"Joint bank accounts
If you have a joint bank account with another person or people, the question of whether your share of the account forms part of the estate depends on the intention of the account holders when the account was opened. If it was the intention that the other account holder(s) would inherit your share, then your share does not become part of your estate. If this was not the intention, for example, if the account was in joint names purely for convenience, then your share - which may be the entirely of the account - does become part of your estate."

A joint account of convenience would be for example and Aunt putting her niece on the account. 

In the case of a husband and wife this does not apply and any money in the account is now solely his wife's. 

The only way (outside of it being clearly stated otherwise in the T&C's) that they can come after his wife (as he left no estate to speak of) is if she went guarantor  on the credit card. 

In the list of creditors, unsecured debt comes last, after the funeral expenses.


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## Cantalia (17 Sep 2013)

Sorry for your loss Sitstill, you need to be certain that your mother was not a second signatory on the credit card. It is often done when its an elderly person who has a credit card.


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## sitstill (18 Sep 2013)

Thanks everyone.  I'll update you as to how it progresses.


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## sitstill (1 Mar 2014)

I haven't heard from the bank in question since they wrote and said they would be in touch again when they investigated the situation.  That was six months ago.  Should I assume they have written-off the death or would it normally take this long?


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## Guinea pig (3 Mar 2014)

That's nothing for AIB. I would consider the mater still open, only after 6 years can you be sure the matter is closed.
 did your mother open a formal complaint regarding the treatment she got in the bank, if she did this now,  it may move things along and get an answer in writing so you know where you stand.


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