# House sold and left with 160K debt



## TigerDebt (19 Sep 2015)

In 2014 my sibling and I sold our home as we could not afford the mortgage. EBS acknowledged the mortgage was unsustainable but would not allow us consent to sale unless we agreed to pay the shortfall over 20 years @ 1K a month.(Deal was hashed out by a solicitor we employed)

We reluctantly agreed as we both needed to move on. We now rent separately and can never afford to pay this debt back. We have not made any repayments on this 'mortgage loan account' in nearly a year. We were advised to go to the bank with an offer in another years time to get a deal/writedown.

Has anyone got any experience of getting a deal after your home was sold? Any advice with how to approach this?


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## Brendan Burgess (19 Sep 2015)

Hi Tiger

You should look at doing a Debt Settlement Arrangement for this. 

Brendan


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## TigerDebt (19 Sep 2015)

Hi Brendan

I have considered all the ISI facilities but am worried about the future implications of a DSA etc when applying for a mortgage/finance at a later date.
I am looking to see if anyone has gone informally to a bank and got a deal(one of payment/writedown/significantly better terms) post voluntary sale for loss scheme??

Tiger


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## Brendan Burgess (19 Sep 2015)

TigerDebt said:


> but am worried about the future implications of a DSA etc when applying for a mortgage/finance at a later date.



Hi Tiger

You can forget about that. You have unpaid debt of €160k. You will not be able to apply for a mortgage for a very long time.

By getting the debt written off now through a DSA, you will begin your process of recovery. 

Brendan


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## TigerDebt (20 Sep 2015)

Brendan

Surely arranging a once off lump sum payment to EBS(via a loan from a family member) to write off the debt is better than paying a DSA arrangement for up to 6 years where I would be registered as being officially insolvent?

I recently applied for a large loan from my bank (BOI) and no questions were asked re arrears etc and I was offered the loan. I'm aware ther's a big difference between a loan and a new mortgage but this was just to test the waters and I was shocked the banks wern't on the same page


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## Brendan Burgess (20 Sep 2015)

Hi Tiger 

Sorry, it hadn't occurred to me that you had money available from relatives, and yes, this would be much better than going insolvent. 

Do you have any other creditors?  Sorting out EBS might not be enough if you have other creditors. 

I don't really know if they will accept it or not.  I suspect that you will have to try a short-term PIA to get their agreement, but maybe not. 

Have you spoken to the Irish Mortgage Holders Organisation? They have a special unit which deals with AIB and they might be able to negotiate a deal on your behalf. 

I am surprised that you got loan approval from Bank of Ireland.  Have you had a look at your ICB record? Is the EBS loan not mentioned on it? 

Brendan


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## TigerDebt (20 Sep 2015)

Brendan,

Yes EBS is our only creditor. I've been advised to wait approx 2 years before offering the bank a once off payment but nothings certain. 

I'm happy to explore the IMHO-AIB/EBS Grant Thornton route, if it could be resolved sooner. So I will look into that in the meantime.

No that's the next step, I will apply for the report as they may have just been slow to catch up with me.

Considering all this I hoping to get some sort of once off deal which would enable me to restore my credit rating sooner, save regularly over a five year period and give me a chance of getting back on the ladder with a sustainable/affordable mortgage. Do you think that's possible?


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## Brendan Burgess (20 Sep 2015)

I really don't know what deal EBS would do with you. If you have the income to save, then you have the income to pay at least some of the €1,000 a month. You are just choosing not to do so.   This will probably be obvious to EBS, so that might discourage them from doing a deal.

Brendan


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## TigerDebt (21 Sep 2015)

Brendan

We will obviously have to pay off a loan from a family member so this will take time to clear. 

The original mortgage was 1300 but in 2013 we lost the TRS,  had to pay back 50 per month for one months arrears and an interest rate hike sent us over the edge. This pushed the mortgage to up over 1550 per month. Coupled with the fact that we are both public sector employees our salary took a huge hit quite soon after we took the original mortgage out. 

We were very proactive with EBS by informing them of our situation prior to getting into difficulty. They said our mortgage was sustainable and told us to cut back on outgoings etc. The fat was already trimmed since 2008 and all other avenues explored to keep the house but our best option seemed to be voluntary sale for loss in 2014 as substantial arrears accumulated on the account. Once they agreed to the sale, they acknowledged the mortgage was unsustainable.

They accepted 1550 per month was unsustainable yet the best deal they could give us was 1000 per month with the house sold. Now renting elsewhere our combined housing costs are 1800 per month.(400 each per month rented accommodation+1000 per month to service the loan). How is this sustainable, taking reasonable living expenses into account? In this case we were better off keeping the house.

I now believe the bank never had any interest in doing a deal pre or post sale as the terms are so unreasonable and for this reason I have chosen to disengage with the bank. On many occasions they ignored my letters, with alternative solutions but this has been fruitless. 

The bank was in line to make a huge profit from this mortgage but it just didn't work out that way. They have not contacted us once since the sale went through or queried missed payments. I wonder if this was a business loan or a buy to let property would they have written it off sooner.


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## epicaricacy (21 Sep 2015)

Friends of mine are using IMHO / Grant Thornton to organise a DSA with the same bank.

The house is not yet sold, but Grant Thornton informed them that an informal deal wasn't acceptable to the bank and that the solution had to be a full and final lump sum DSA on the projected shortfall. The projected shortfall is 100K - 120K and GT informed them that 25 - 30K would the smallest amount that EBS would accept on the shortfall.

I'm not sure of the wisdom of waiting another 2 years if you're anxious to re-start your life.


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## TigerDebt (21 Sep 2015)

Epicaricacy

Thanks for that information. 

The two year gap was advised from the date of sale so we have another year to go. The idea being the bank would get nothing for two years then dangle the carrot as a ''something better than nothing'' once off lump sum offer of approx 25-30K which is also a figure I have been unoficially quoted. Failing this offer, try a structured DSA, failing that proceed to the UK for bankruptcy(last resort but willing to do)

In the meantime I will ask the IMHO to setup an appointment with Grant Thornton to see where that brings us.


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## LS400 (24 Sep 2015)

That's a great deal your bank got, sell the property and also pay €240k over 20 years. Which is another mortgage again..and you employ a solicitor to hash it out. I know hindsight and all that, but for other folk in your situation, looking back, would you do things differently, ie, rent the property. Out of curiosity, has the market improved since your difficulty. The reason I say that is, your on the hoof for a long pay back anyway so, I don't see what you had to loose in stringing out you issue. You were both public employees with guaranteed income come hell or high water. There had to be some reason your solicitor guided you on this road.


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## TigerDebt (29 Sep 2015)

Hello LS400,

So far so good. We are really happy we sold the house. Stress, broke, no hope. At least now we have some hope. 

Renting the property wasn't an option as we could only get 900 pm and the mortgage was 1600+associated costs of renting out a house. To cover the rest each, and rent elsewhere, we were back at square one. Also we both wanted to move in with our partners and we could only do this by selling up as neither of our partners could move in and take over the mortgage as it was in such negative equity. 

Being a public sector employee sounds great. You are guaranteed a wage alright but that wage is seriously diminished these days and the pay scales for future progression ain't worth talking about.

Since we went sale agreed in early 2014 to now, the house increased in value by 50,000 yet the bank didn't say hang on, we'll wait a few months then let them sell it. They just wanted to recoup some capital and in doing so the debt on there books looks better. 

Owing 160K or 110K is the same to us.Never in a million years could we manage to pay either back. And yes there was a very specific reason why we were advised to go down this road and sell when we did.


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## cremeegg (29 Sep 2015)

I am sorry to hear that you lost your house and I can certainly believe that as you say "I now believe the bank never had any interest in doing a deal pre or post sale". In my opinion the banks just try to get the most they can for themselves out of these situations.

As for the loan from the relative, the banks tend to think, if the customer has the money available and the customer owes us money, why are we not getting it. The don't accept that the relative is providing the money to help the their family member not to help the bank.

Now at the risk of being banned from my favourite time consuming hobby I will comment on this



TigerDebt said:


> Being a public sector employee sounds great. You are guaranteed a wage alright but that wage is seriously diminished these days and the pay scales for future progression ain't worth talking about.



Guaranteed a wage, and a pension to the day you die, with spouse benefit. Who else except public servants has pay scales for future progression. The rest of us who want a pay rise have to look for a better job. (And pay your pay scales)


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## TigerDebt (29 Sep 2015)

Yes I agree with your second paragraph but I can't preempt what the banks view will be at the time. 


Well, I'll put it to you this way. 8 years ago I was on 300 more net per month than now. I've moved up 7 pay scales in that time with more responsibility, hours and workload. If I was lucky to be promoted or move up 5 or 6 pay scales in the next 5-10 years I would only take home an extra 25 euro per week after tax.  

I must work 31 years to receive a pension and start paying it the day I start(no choice) How many people in the private sector start a pension in their teens or early twenties? If I do any overtime I'll never receive it my pension. For example if I work 40 hours per week I could pay for example 50 euro in pension related deductions. If I work 20 hrs overtime(which is not voluntary) I could pay 100 euro in pension deductions yet I will never see that extra 50 euro back in my pension. It's not all gravy, some people only hear the good side of it. 

I agree that in the private sector the threat of losing your job always looms and think private pensions should be compulsory but in the public sector you have to jump through some hoops to get that pension.


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## cremeegg (29 Sep 2015)

I recognise that loosing €300 a month in take home pay is difficult for anybody. I am surprised that a promotion would only net you €25 a week, though in fairness from what I know of the public sector (civil service) promotions are not luck, the process is very competitive. 

We talked about pay scales, there are and will also be increments I think.

I have posted many times before about public sector pensions and that people fail to understand just how valuable they are. A pension of €40,000 p.a would cost €1.65 million to buy (discounted at 2.5%).

You must work 31 years, does that mean that if you join at 23 you can retire on full pension at 54 ? Am I correct in thinking that your pension will be based not on your contributions but on your final salary (averaged over final 3 years) ?

I know that none of this helps with your housing situation today, nevertheless!


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## TigerDebt (29 Sep 2015)

Yes the increments have been spread out to every 18 months now and the small jumps are negated by tax. My point was, staying for the long haul to get the pension is great in theory but the wages now combined with little progression really discourages staying. 

Correct 31 years, retire at 54 with full entitlements. Best 3 years out of ten. 

So typically a person retiring @ 54 on the expected average pay scale after 31 years would receive approx 18000 euro a year. So say Mr X lives for another 30 years, he would receive approx half a million over that period(After 67 he would also be in receipt of the OAP which is then tax deductible from his pension.

Mr X would probably only make a fifth of a contribution to the total sum he would receive in retirement. Yes it's very good but in some public sector jobs there is a heavy price to pay for that 31 years. This 31 year pension is equates to a 40 year pension within different sectors of the public sector.


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## Sarenco (29 Sep 2015)

31 years for roughly half your final salary - for life - that's an outrageously good deal.

I'm also sorry to hear that you lost your home but your pension entitlements are extremely valuable by any standards.


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## TigerDebt (29 Sep 2015)

thanks.

Yes it's really good but this is a new pension arrangement since 2005 and nobody has got to that magic 31 years+there is an attrition rate of approx 60% in the first 5 years in my sector of the public service. So the benefits are there but people cant/wont stay for that period of time. 

May I ask, what would a person in the private sector receive after contributing to a pension for 40 years on a salary of 40,000 pa?


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## cremeegg (29 Sep 2015)

TigerDebt said:


> May I ask, what would a person in the private sector receive after contributing to a pension for 40 years on a salary of 40,000 pa?



Most people in the private sector have no pension other than the state pension.

Most people who do have a pension have a defined contribution pension. They don't know what they will get until they retire. To get €40k p.a. with spouses benefit and index linking would cost about €1.6m

All pension income is taxable.

I dont understand where you are getting the €18,000 figure. I suggest that the average pension for a full time public employee on a full pension is considerably higher.


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## TigerDebt (30 Sep 2015)

I'm aware not everyone has a pension in the private sector and yes all pensions income is taxable.

Sorry I didn't ask the question correctly. I meant an equivalent person in the private sector. 
Typically, if a 25 year old took out a defined benefit pension and made contributions at a reasonable % of his salary eg 40,000 euro(yearly average wage from the age of 25-65 years old) for 40 years, what would he expect to receive upon retirement. Estimate?  

The 18000 comes from my pension department based on an average earning salary (40,000) after 31 years service in my public sector job. 18000 x 30 years of drawing pension = 540,000 Euro.


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## Sarenco (30 Sep 2015)

It really depends on what is contributed to the pension fund and the performance of that fund

For simplicity, let's say a private sector worker earns €40,000 per annum and contributes 10% of their gross income to their pension fund over 40 years.  Let's say their employer generously throws in an additional 5% of this worker's gross salary every year and the fund grows by a compounded rate of 4% per annum after inflation.

After 40 years, this worker would have contributed a total of €160,000 and his employer would have contributed €80,000 to the fund. Including investment gains over 40 years, you might be looking at a pension pot of around €600k in 2015 money and that might buy you an annuity of around €12k per annum at today's rates.

You will appreciate that the above is a very rough example - it is pretty unlikely that anybody would earn the same amount for 40 years.


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## cremeegg (30 Sep 2015)

TigerDebt said:


> The 18000 comes from my pension department based on an average earning salary (40,000) after 31 years service in my public sector job.



Perhaps I am wrong but my understanding is that a public sector pension is based on the average of the final 3 years salary not the average salary over the working life.



TigerDebt said:


> 18000 x 30 years of drawing pension = 540,000 Euro.



This is not a valid way to value a pension. Money in 30 years is not the same as money today. It does not account for pension increases. It does not account for survivors benefit. 

An imperfect but more valid way is to ask how much it would cost to buy a similar pension from an insurance company. Any such pension would be similar to a public sector pension but not as good. It would only be backed by the insurance company not the state. It would only be indexed linked, not linked to increases in earnings.


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## cremeegg (30 Sep 2015)

Sarenco,

I agree with your numbers but I doubt that there are many if any private sector workers earning more than the average wage for 40 years and contributing 10% of their salary to a pension for that entire time.

Your example is, I suggest, at the extreme end or beyond, what is possible for the average private sector worker.


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## Bronte (30 Sep 2015)

TigerDebt said:


> Hi Brendan
> 
> I have considered all the ISI facilities but am worried about the future implications of a DSA etc when applying for a mortgage/finance at a later date.
> I am looking to see if anyone has gone informally to a bank and got a deal(one of payment/writedown/significantly better terms) post voluntary sale for loss scheme??
> ...



1K a month for twenty years is 240K.   1 K a month is a lot of money.  Time to renegotiate.  I wonder what they'd do if you stopped paying and corresponding.  What is your monthly income and outgoings. 

I really think you need professional advice.  Mabs, or the new UK based Mabs (I forget their name - they are now in place for your bank I think I read last week, it's an over the phone advice service). 

Well done on getting rid of the house which you find was a noose around your neck, next step is to get rid of the debt legitimately if you can.


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## Sarenco (30 Sep 2015)

cremeegg said:


> Sarenco,
> 
> I agree with your numbers but I doubt that there are many if any private sector workers earning more than the average wage for 40 years and contributing 10% of their salary to a pension for that entire time.
> 
> Your example is, I suggest, at the extreme end or beyond, what is possible for the average private sector worker.



Absolutely.  

I was really just putting down some very crude figures to give a very rough indication as to how difficult it really is for an average private sector worker to build up a sufficient pension pot to purchase a meaningful annuity to supplement the contributory OAP.  I'm not suggesting that the example is in any way realistic.


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## Rebuttal (6 Oct 2015)

Cremeegg,


Yes, it is, but not considerably higher.


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## The Oggster (19 Oct 2015)

Sorry, don't have much to help the OP but regarding public service pension, well CS anyway. I pay full rate PRSI. If I retire on €40k, I will receive a pension of €20k per year but €12k of that is the state pension. So a pension of €8k a year after paying into it for 40 years. People with a private pension will receive a separate state pension.

New entrants have a worse deal as pension is now based on career average.

I guess the OP works in the emergency services with a career of 31 years and ability to retire at 54?


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## cremeegg (19 Oct 2015)

The Oggster said:


> I pay full rate PRSI. If I retire on €40k, I will receive a pension of €20k per year but €12k of that is the state pension. So a pension of €8k a year after paying into it for 40 years. People with a private pension will receive a separate state pension.
> 
> New entrants have a worse deal as pension is now based on career average.



Are you paying pension contributions over and above PRSI. 

IS €40,000 an average salary for people in the last 10 years pre retirement.


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## josephine (19 Oct 2015)

TigerDebt said:


> The original mortgage was 1300 but in 2013 we lost the TRS,  had to pay back 50 per month for one months arrears and an interest rate hike sent us over the edge. This pushed the mortgage to up over 1550 per month. Coupled with the fact that we are both public sector employees our salary took a huge hit quite soon after we took the original mortgage out.



Was the mortgage not stress tested when you took it out? At least you still had secure jobs, and a pension to look forward to so no big need for savings. By cutting back on holidays or luxuries could you not afford the mortgage?



The Oggster said:


> If I retire on €40k, I will receive a pension of €20k per year but €12k of that is the state pension. So a pension of €8k a year after paying into it for 40 years.



You also get 18 months salary tax free on retirement though, as well as 50% of your finishing salary per year as a pension,do you not? That is not to be sniffed at. And most public servants I know retire on a considerably higher pension than 20K, given average public sector pay is  over 48k a year ( http://www.irishtimes.com/business/...higher-than-those-in-private-sector-1.1907313 ).


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## Gerry Canning (19 Oct 2015)

Apparently half private workers have no pension other than state @ k12.
Most of the rest do not have Defined schemes but rely on the value of fund @ retirement.

To get a non-index linked pension of 10,000 you need contribution  fund of 240,000.

to add spouse + index linked seems to need    contribution            fund of 400,000.

The danger on Public pensions is that they are at the whim of the state.
(bear in mind the state has robbed even from private pension funds).
...........................
Josephine in (fluffy) times stress testing was a joke, people in their naivety trusted Mr Bank to not walk them into a hole.


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## The Oggster (19 Oct 2015)

josephine said:


> You also get 18 months salary tax free on retirement though, as well as 50% of your finishing salary per year as a pension,do you not? That is not to be sniffed at. And most public servants I know retire on a considerably higher pension than 20K, given average public sector pay is  over 48k a year ( http://www.irishtimes.com/business/...higher-than-those-in-private-sector-1.1907313 ).


If average is €48k that means a pension of €24k a year, 12 of which is state pension. Also if average is €48k, it means there is an awful lot of people on a lot less. 


cremeegg said:


> Are you paying pension contributions over and above PRSI.


I'm paying full rate PRSI and pension, spouse pension, children's pension and 'pension related deduction'.


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## Sarenco (20 Oct 2015)

No, you're paying PRSi (like everybody else) and your income is (not very sigificantly) reduced by way of a temporary PRD to reflect the fact that you will qualify for an extremely generous public sector pension.  Government policy is to wind down PRDs as resources allow.

The spouses' and children scheme is a benefit to you - not a cost. 

Irish public sector pensions are exceptionally generous by any reasonable standards.


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## Protocol (20 Oct 2015)

cremeegg said:


> Are you paying pension contributions over and above PRSI.



PS hired since 1995 pay full-rate PRSI, and their normal pension conts of 6.5% of wages applying to most PS.

Recently, they also pay the PRD, which is up to 10% - 10.5% of wages.


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## Sarenco (20 Oct 2015)

Protocol said:


> Recently, they also pay the PRD, which is up to 10% - 10.5% of wages.



That's not really true.  PRDs are applied on a tiered basis and the first €15,000 of income is completely exempt.

A PS worker on €40,000, to take one example, would only have 5.3% of their income deducted.


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## cremeegg (20 Oct 2015)

Firstly to the OP I recognise that you have a difficulty with your mortgage at present and this cannot be pleasant for anyone. Unfortunately the responses here have not been of much help. Your situation is not very bad but it must be immensely frustrating to be unable to move on. The only constructive advice I can give is don't be in any hurry to tell the bank that a relative can lend you money.

Regarding the public sector pension matter which has taken off in this thread.

So for a person who joined after 1995.

You pay ordinary (why do we say full?) PRSI
You pay 6.5% pension contribution
You pay 10% or higher pension related deduction, PRD

For this you get contributory state pension (see further question below)
You get pension top-up to 50% of the average salary, 3 best years of the last 10

Further question, if the state pension were to be cut or just increase less than average public sector wages does the top-up increase to keep the pension at 50%?


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## josephine (20 Oct 2015)

The Oggster said:


> If average is €48k that means a pension of €24k a year, 12 of which is state pension.


Taking the average public sector salary of 48k means the average public sector pension is worth more than  24k for existing p.s. pensions, as
(a) the average public service salary in the last few years before retirement is considerably more 48k, due to increments, promotion etc
(b) the 18 months tax free lump sum bonus in addition to pension.
Think I read in the business pages somewhere it averages out being worth about 35k.  However for new entrants I think pension is based on 50% career average rather than 50% finishing salary. 



Sarenco said:


> Irish public sector pensions are exceptionally generous by any reasonable standards.


Correct


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## Gerry Canning (20 Oct 2015)

Post was headed
{Feather beds for wealthy retired}

1. Most retirees are not wealthy .
2. All retirees are those who in 1950,s onward,  by their efforts have ensured a much higher standard of living for those who give out about Retirees.
3. Do the complainers want OAP reduced , so when their time comes a pittance will suffice to keep them ?
4. It irks me to see retirees getting picked at.

I do accept all present and future pensions need reviewing , but leave off the  tone of some comments !


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## cremeegg (20 Oct 2015)

I think you posted that to the wrong thread Gerry. Senior moment?


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## TigerDebt (7 Dec 2015)

Josephine,



josephine said:


> Was the mortgage not stress tested when you took it out? At least you still had secure jobs, and a pension to look forward to so no big need for savings. By cutting back on holidays or luxuries could you not afford the mortgage?



Yes it was stress tested but at the 2006 pay levels (pre bust). Because of the crash, we had already cut back on luxuries and holidays etc since 2008. So six years of that cemented our decision to cut our losses. Also I was living off less than the dole a week just to keep the house and I had no dependents.


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## moneybox (7 Dec 2015)

cremeegg said:


> I think you posted that to the wrong thread Gerry. Senior moment?


 
Nice one!


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## Pinkpanter (7 Dec 2015)

My salary is 50 k- i work in public sector.
I am post 2004 entrant- my pension will be 25k if I work for 40 years! 
My retirement age is 65. 
This 25k is made up of State Pension (circa 12k). 
So for all my contributions I get 13k per year 65-68 years.25k after 68.
Contributions 6.5 % and a pension levy of 7.5%. Plus full prsi  payments.
If I sat on my hands and did not work I would get 12k at 68.


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## cremeegg (7 Dec 2015)

Pinkpanter said:


> My salary is 50 k- i work in public sector.
> I am post 2004 entrant- my pension will be 25k if I work for 40 years!
> My retirement age is 65.
> This 25k is made up of State Pension (circa 12k).
> ...



You will have to bear with us, not many people outside the public sector understand the full details of the pension arrangements.

Perhaps you can tell me, is the pension 50% of lifetime average or 50% of final salary, or 50% of last three years.

Is the 50% guaranteed in the event of reduction in the contributory pension?

Are you really paying 6% + 7.5% €6,750 per annum from your salary in addition to full prsi. (I just love the way public servants pay FULL prsi whereas the rest of us just pay ordinary prsi)

The value of a pension of €13k per annum (€25-€12) discounted at 2.5% is €520,000 so probably good value even at a higher rate, and without the pension being based on a higher final salary.


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## dereko1969 (8 Dec 2015)

cremeegg said:


> You will have to bear with us, not many people outside the public sector understand the full details of the pension arrangements.
> 
> Perhaps you can tell me, is the pension 50% of lifetime average or 50% of final salary, or 50% of last three years.
> 
> ...



It will be 50% of final 3 years salary. The poster seems to think they won't get promoted between now and reaching 65!

In fairness the "Full PRSI" is to differentiate with pre-95 entrants, not to the general populace.


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## josephine (8 Dec 2015)

Pinkpanter said:


> My salary is 50 k- i work in public sector.
> I am post 2004 entrant- my pension will be 25k if I work for 40 years!
> My retirement age is 65.


Your persion will not be 25k if you work for 40 years, as you will get almost certainly increments and promotion before retirement age. So your pension will be considerably higher, lucky you.  And you fail to mention in your post yesterday the 18 months salary tax free lump sum "bonus"on retirement,  in addition to pension. Some of my relations down the country got this windfall and it exceeded what you can buy a decent house or apartment in much of rural Ireland for.  So they have a great investment property as well as a pension.  Now what other country in the world treats its public servants so well?


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## Pinkpanter (9 Dec 2015)

josephine said:


> Your persion will not be 25k if you work for 40 years, as you will get almost certainly increments and promotion before retirement age. So your pension will be considerably higher, lucky you.  And you fail to mention in your post yesterday the 18 months salary tax free lump sum "bonus"on retirement,  in addition to pension. Some of my relations down the country got this windfall and it exceeded what you can buy a decent house or apartment in much of rural Ireland for.  So they have a great investment property as well as a pension.  Now what other country in the world treats its public servants so well?



No chance of promotion unless I chose management- no Thanks!
Well that bonus!! as you call it is also paid for ( percentage of 6.5% contributions).
I am 35- so I will have contributed 14% of my income from 2009 till retirement in 2045.
Again if I sat on my hands and I never worked a day in my life I would get 12k!
And I'm sure the country will go bankrupt again between now and then!! And there will be another smash and grab in public servants!


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## LS400 (10 Dec 2015)

Hi Pinkpanther,
This maybe going off topic, and its not directed at you, but the big advantage i see is, their are people the PS system, who can sit on their hands, not work a day and will get paid right up to their end of career. That is a big plus.
Im not slating all in the PS system, but it does happen, and anyone who says any different is going around with their head in the clouds. But that is another story altogether.


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## Protocol (10 Dec 2015)

Pinkpanter said:


> Contributions 6.5 % and a pension levy of 7.5%. Plus full prsi  payments.



Note that conts are 6.5% of wages plus PRD as follows:

up to 15k = exempt
15-20k = 2.5%
20k-60k = 10%
over 60k = 10.5%


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