# Lecturer above/below the bar



## Gordanus

this appears in a lot of lecturer jobs.  Does anyone know what it means?


----------



## Brendan Burgess

Could you explain the context of your post please. It doesn't make much sense as it stands.

Brendan


----------



## GeneralZod

An anachronistic term for two different payscales with different procedures for determining  the place on the scale. Below for the grunts and above for the more senior posts.


----------



## DrMoriarty

Most institutions still maintain a distinction between Lecturer and Assistant/Junior Lecturer. In practice, the two salary scales overlap by a good third or more in the middle. In places which have 'telescoped' the AL and L scales (e.g. UCC, which IIRC uses a common 'College Lecturer' scale), they speak of a 'bar' beyond which your progression depends on various promotional criteria — seniority, admin. responsibilities, research profile, etc.

You can compare salary details for the older NUI universities (and other institutions) [broken link removed] (UL/DCU staff are represented by Mandate and the ITs by the [broken link removed]).

My guess would be that whatever department/school/faculty is advertising a lecturership has been told by Finance that the contract is only sanctioned for an appointment 'below the bar'. Once you're on the inside and have cleared the probationary period, of course, you can start angling for promotion — _if_ there are any promotional possibilities in the future, which is less and less likely outside of the IT sector...


----------



## Mary_K

DrMoriarty said:
			
		

> UL/DCU staff are represented by Mandate


DCU Staff are represented solely by SIPTU afaik.



			
				DrMoriarty said:
			
		

> _if_ there are any promotional possibilities in the future, which is less and less likely outside of the IT sector...


Does this mean that IT staff within the higher education sector have a better chance of promotion. How does this work?


----------



## DrMoriarty

Mary_K said:
			
		

> DCU Staff are represented solely by SIPTU afaik.


I stand corrected..!  


			
				Mary_K said:
			
		

> Does this mean that IT staff within the higher education sector have a better chance of promotion. How does this work?


Sorry — by the 'IT sector' I meant not *I*nformation *T*echnology but the *I*nstitutes of *T*echnology, who seem set to receive proportionately greater state funding in the medium term than the 'old' universities, traditionally far more privileged in this respect. In my own (languages) area, university schools and departments are, if anything, being merged/'shrunk' as a result of the budget cutbacks of the past few years, and the trend seems likely to continue — in UCD, the biggest employer in the State, they've just been told to reduce their budget by a further 25% over the next four years.

In Ireland and elsewhere, the universities (and other institutions) are now driven purely by economic considerations, which means that academic career/employment prospects for new entrants are largely contingent on the commercial viability of your area/discipline and/or its 'sexiness' in terms of attracting private funding for the institution, serving the workforce training needs of employers, and 'through-putting' the highest possible numbers of student 'bums on seats' at the lowest possible cost.

Cardinal Newman, turn in your grave...!


----------



## Purple

Nothing like the the cynicism of an insider...


----------



## DrMoriarty

What was that old FF _dictum_ about it being 'better to be on the inside, pissing out, than on the outside, pissing in...'?


----------



## Purple

Far too witty to be an FF dictum, and it actually means something.


----------



## Gordanus

DrMoriarty said:
			
		

> Most institutions still maintain a distinction between Lecturer and Assistant/Junior Lecturer. In practice, the two salary scales overlap by a good third or more in the middle. In places which have 'telescoped' the AL and L scales (e.g. UCC, which IIRC uses a common 'College Lecturer' scale), they speak of a 'bar' beyond which your progression depends on various promotional criteria — seniority, admin. responsibilities, research profile, etc.



Thanks Dr M! exactly what I needed to know - had a look at the criteria and they seemed identical in terms of duties.  Guess you have to be on the inside - already 'above the bar' - to get that.  Salary seems very low, same as I get now in the hard clinical world.  But 3 months holidays.....mmmm


----------



## Gordanus

DrMoriarty said:
			
		

> Most institutions still maintain a distinction between Lecturer and Assistant/Junior Lecturer. In practice, the two salary scales overlap by a good third or more in the middle. In places which have 'telescoped' the AL and L scales (e.g. UCC, which IIRC uses a common 'College Lecturer' scale), they speak of a 'bar' beyond which your progression depends on various promotional criteria — seniority, admin. responsibilities, research profile, etc.



Thanks Dr M! exactly what I needed to know - had a look at the criteria and they seemed identical in terms of duties.  Guess you have to be on the inside - already 'above the bar' - to get that.  Salary seems very low, same as I get now in the hard clinical world.  But 3 months holidays.....

ITs are trying to go upmarket.  In the past they had much greater teaching hours.  Now the pressure is on for staff to awuuire PhDs and do research.


----------



## DrMoriarty

Gordanus said:
			
		

> But 3 months holidays.....mmmm


I unreservedly recommend that you join _that_ particular club, Gordanus! 

More seriously — and ask any lecturer this! — it's thoroughly disheartening to see your institution (employer) systematically reward/indulge/ensconce utter plonkers, and cold-shoulder excellent potential incomers, to the extent that they just go elsewhere and/or give up trying.

But then I don't run the place... (yet!)


----------

