# AAM Election Manifesto!



## Firefly (19 Apr 2007)

How about we put together what we'd like a political party to deliver in the next term? When complete I can summarise.

Put each request under a suitable heading such as:

*Drink Driving*
When people are stopped for random alcohol tests and they are found over the limit their car should be confiscated, sold and the proceeds go to the uninsured victims fund. This would be perfectly progressive as richer people would lose more expensive cars...

Firefly.


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## michaelm (19 Apr 2007)

Firefly said:


> How about we put together what we'd like a political party to deliver in the next term?


Good luck with that.  The AAM crowd may be more heterogeneous that you think.


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## ubiquitous (19 Apr 2007)

Firefly said:


> *Drink Driving*
> When people are stopped for random alcohol tests and they are found over the limit their car should be confiscated, sold and the proceeds go to the uninsured victims fund. This would be perfectly progressive as richer people would lose more expensive cars...
> 
> Firefly.



Must remember to "borrow" my neighbour's car the next time I go boozing...


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## ClubMan (19 Apr 2007)

I'd like more bread. And maybe a circus or two.


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## Purple (19 Apr 2007)

Cake, loads of cake...and the finest wines known to humanity!


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## Sue Ellen (19 Apr 2007)

ClubMan said:


> I'd like more bread. And maybe a circus or two.


 
You're not foolin' us


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## jhegarty (19 Apr 2007)

Firefly said:


> *Drink Driving*
> When people are stopped for random alcohol tests and they are found over the limit their car should be confiscated, sold and the proceeds go to the uninsured victims fund. This would be perfectly progressive as richer people would lose more expensive cars...





Works very well in new york..


next one same for uninsured drivers...

when i started driving i paid €4500 for insurance , then i read in the paper of someone caught without any getting a find of €300 and no ban....


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## Purple (20 Apr 2007)

ClubMan said:


> I'd like more bread. And maybe a circus or two.



What sort of a clown are you?


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## elefantfresh (20 Apr 2007)

Krusty!


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## ubiquitous (20 Apr 2007)

jhegarty said:


> Works very well in new york..



How can that be? There is no such thing as random breath testing in New York, at least according to a NY-based relative who was amazed a few months ago to be stopped by the Gardai and breathalysed at 6am on his way to the Airport to fly home.


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## almo (20 Apr 2007)

Bread and games work very well here in Croatia, as do opning roads, tunnels and trying to get an international football competition!


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## michaelm (20 Apr 2007)

Firefly said:


> When people are stopped for random alcohol tests  . .


I'm entirely opposed to the notion that a Garda can or should randomly stop anyone going about their business.  Indeed, the Garda have too much power - thinking of the Criminal Justice (Public Order) Act 1994 here - and not enough man power.


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## Firefly (20 Apr 2007)

michaelm said:


> I'm entirely opposed to the notion that a Garda can or should randomly stop anyone going about their business. Indeed, the Garda have too much power - thinking of the Criminal Justice (Public Order) Act 1994 here - and not enough man power.


 

Seriously? Seems to work fine everywhere else?


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## michaelm (20 Apr 2007)

Firefly said:


> Seriously?


Yes.  Ireland is following Britain (like we do with most things) down the Police State path with sweeping powers for the Police and CCTV saturation in towns and cities.


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## elefantfresh (20 Apr 2007)

With the state of corruption in our police force, do we really want them having MORE power? I don't think so.


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## ubiquitous (20 Apr 2007)

michaelm said:


> I'm entirely opposed to the notion that a Garda can or should randomly stop anyone going about their business.  Indeed, the Garda have too much power - thinking of the Criminal Justice (Public Order) Act 1994 here - and not enough man power.





Firefly said:


> Seriously? Seems to work fine everywhere else?



Wouldn't have worked too well in certain parts of Donegal at various stages since the 90s.  Ditto areas of Northern Ireland during the 80s & 90s


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## KalEl (20 Apr 2007)

michaelm said:


> I'm entirely opposed to the notion that a Garda can or should randomly stop anyone going about their business. Indeed, the Garda have too much power - thinking of the Criminal Justice (Public Order) Act 1994 here - and not enough man power.


 
Hobbs and Locke, Theory of Law...All men are born free. Man gives up a modicum of his freedom to enjoy the protection of society.

Corruption in Donegal aside, guards being able to stop people and CCTV cameras in city centres are good ideas, common sense.
Only people with something to hide (subversive elements of our society) would be against such measures.


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## conor_mc (20 Apr 2007)

elefantfresh said:


> With the state of corruption in our police force, do we really want them having MORE power? I don't think so.


 
I'm all for it meself.

And when they get it, I'm gonna join up!  

McDowells Hobby Bobbies - here I come!


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## Remix (20 Apr 2007)

Let's look to the future and start an all-out use of CCTVs to prosecute and/or tax people who are putting a drain on our 
health care system or crimes against the environment.




> Letters to Way of the World
> *February 28, 2016*
> 
> I welcome proposals by the Government to place a CCTV camera in every household fridge. How else are we to stop the forward march of clinical obesity?
> ...


 
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/opinion/main.jhtml?xml=/opinion/2006/02/28/do2804.xml


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## elefantfresh (20 Apr 2007)

McDowells a gonner - fingers crossed x


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## ubiquitous (20 Apr 2007)

KalEl said:


> Only people with something to hide (subversive elements of our society) would be against such measures.



People such as...
Joanne Hayes?
Brian Rossiter?
Derek Fairbrother?
Frank McBrearty?
John Carthy?
Peter Matthews (Shercock, Co. Cavan)?
Frank Short?

Google these names if you don't know what I'm talking about.


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## Vanilla (20 Apr 2007)

elefantfresh said:


> McDowells a gonner - fingers crossed x


 

Personally or the party? I imagine he will retain his seat but PDs might be in for heavy losses.

Martin Ferris is the only one so far who's asked for my vote.I'm still waiting to see if anyone else will call. Am annoying my father intensely by saying Martin is getting my number one since no one else wants it.  Have to hand it to Sin Fein - there is no doubt that they are grafters.


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## ubiquitous (20 Apr 2007)

Some might say grifters as well


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## Vanilla (20 Apr 2007)

ubiquitous said:


> Some might say grifters as well


 

_Some _might, I'm sure neither you nor I would!


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## michaelm (20 Apr 2007)

KalEl said:


> Only people with something to hide (subversive elements of our society) would be against such measures.


Are civil libertarians 'subversive elements . . with something to hide'?


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## ClubMan (20 Apr 2007)

KalEl said:


> Hobbs and Locke, Theory of Law...All men are born free. Man gives up a modicum of his freedom to enjoy the protection of society.


I think you mean Hobbes - unless you mean [broken link removed]?


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## elefantfresh (20 Apr 2007)

Don't you mean Hobbes?
[broken link removed]


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## JohnnyBoy (20 Apr 2007)

Good point about Martin Ferris(though I'd rather slash my wrists than vote for Shinners).I'm a lot more impressed by a canvas in person as oppossed to the absolute waste of paper that's shoved through my letter box(so much for Bertie's Green agenda!!FF seem to be the biggest culprits!


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## KalEl (20 Apr 2007)

elefantfresh said:


> McDowells a gonner - fingers crossed x


 
Eh, lets' hope not...he's the one guy who seems to apply common sense to a problem. 5 more years for the Mad Mullah I say!


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## jmayo (20 Apr 2007)

Back to Firefly's original post and what next government should deliver:

I think people would hope the next government could guarantee them a safe supply of drinking water, unlike the current shower that don't seem to be to restore said same right to the people of Galway.


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## Pique318 (21 Apr 2007)

How about:

The right to use 'reasonable force' to protect ones property,
Road Tax spent on roads...nothing else and drop the rates if they intend spending less than the projected income from road tax,
Forcing Eircom to commit to a 7-day compliance on new connections,
forcing Eircom to unbundle the local loops in 24 hours, or else...
Subsidising the production of biofuels in Ireland and not applying petrol excise on biofuel (Royal Biofuels story lately)
Don't spend millions on Leopardstown/e-voting/PPARS/etc without sorting out the funding for suicide prevention (never mentioned even though it exceeds road deaths yearly), autism funding, oncology depts in EVERY General Hospital, etc.
Follow the UN now and again instead of the US,
Sort out the mess of a deal with the RCC which saw them pay sfa for the abuse debacle and get what is right, not what is 'convenient',
Bring in a hardass Garda Ombudsman,
Do a Maggie on the unions <ducks for cover>,
Drop the price of the TV license until RTE start making things like Pure Mule etc more common and not expecting us to pay for the likes of Seoige & O'Shea <shudder>,
Lose the PC rubbish and say what you mean, we'll respect you more for it,
If a vested interest is involved in anything, expell them and have an expert panel of non-biased, independent, free-thinking people (National Childrens Hospital springs to mind)
and the toughest ask of all,



Be Honest and Forthright in everything you do as an elected representative of the people and do everything in your power to do what's GOOD and RIGHT for the MAJORITY of the country.

Whichever party promises the most gets my vote (and will keep it if they deliver!).



Too much to ask in a 21st century Banana Republic Democracy ??????????


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## Z100 (21 Apr 2007)

Right then.

I'd like:

A dramatic increases in sentences for murder, manslaughter, rape, child abuse and internet child porn. And animal cruelty. (Check out the evidence that shows those who are cruel to animals, especially in their youth, 'progress' to child cruety and beyond. It's staggering). 

An end to children's allowance and lone parents' payments, to be replaced by a voucher-type system that by-passes parents and ensures children are provided with the necessities in life, eg decent food, clothing, home utilities (electricity, heat, etc), school essentials, etc. Time to stop giving the parents the cash.

A greater effort to track down absent parents. When found an appropriate percentage of their earnings/social welfare should go towards the above, ie the necessities in life for their children. No need to make all the pathetic mistakes of Britain's CSA, it can be done, successfully.

A major, major effort to ensure that immigrant workers receive the same rights/protection/pay as 'native' workers. And yes Fianna Fail, that includes the construction industry.

Most importantly of all, a seismic effort to sort out our health system, whatever it takes - and if that includes higher tax, so be it.

A determination that our elderly will receive the very best of care, whatever it takes - again, if that includes higher tax, so be it. We owe them that much. This includes the provision of free care either in residential homes, which should be monitored on a weekly, not yearly, basis, or in a non-residential capacity, where those senior citizens who wish to remain in their own homes can do so, with the help of the state (ie constant care and attention, meals, etc).

Free everything for the over 70s - no tax on their earnings, free medical care (of the top class kind), etc. If they have worked and paid tax all their lives it's the least they deserve.

That's just for starters, will have a think about the rest of my manifesto.


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## DrMoriarty (21 Apr 2007)

I'm thinking along the lines of Steve Martin's 'five wishes for Christmas'...


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## DublinTexas (21 Apr 2007)

Here my Dream-List:


Join the Schengen agreement
_Pending some sort of agreement with the NI goverment.
_
People who cause death when drink driving need to be charged with MURDER!
Term Limits for TD's/Ministers
FLAT Tax system with reducement of the stealth taxes
Reform the Health System!
_Including hire staff that is resonable paid and deliveres performance. And I mean private sector performance.
_
I'm with Pique318: Do a Maggie on the unions!
_I'm not even ducking for cover for that one!
_
Reform Public Transportation to make it more attractive for passengers and allow competition into it. London public transportation is good, could work here.
Fire the DAA management! Get Dennis to build his alternative Airport!
Sell Aer Lingus
_We don't need a Ryanair II protected with my tax money!_
Force AnPost to fullfill it's Universal Services Obligations!
Force Eircom to fullfill it's Universal Services Obligations!
Modernize the Garda Force (both technical and mentaly).
_It needs to become a service for the public. It's not about more rights for them, it's about ensuring they can do what we expect them to be "Guardians of the Peace".
_
But than again, what do I know....


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## Sue Ellen (21 Apr 2007)

DrMoriarty said:


> I'm thinking along the lines of Steve Martin's 'five wishes for Christmas'...


 
Bold boy, as usual


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## Past30Now (23 Apr 2007)

ubiquitous said:


> People such as...
> Joanne Hayes?
> Brian Rossiter?
> Derek Fairbrother?
> ...



Again another misguided comment linking John Carthy to corruption in the Garda Siochana.  Nobody, not even Justice Barr or the Carthy family suggested for one second, that corruption had anything to do with the events in Abbeylara.  This cynical lazy view that the likes of Dunphy have espoused and Ubiquitous has repeated is highly offensive to the people involved that day.

Past30


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## Seagull (23 Apr 2007)

My partial wish list
1) Any tax ostensibly taken for environmental reasons to be spent purely on improving environmental issues.
2) Road tax to be spent on maintaining roads.
3) Any government IT project to be held to the same rules as those in the private domain. If it's been outsourced to a private company and doesn't work, they don't get paid.
4) Stop with the tribunals and start with the prosecutions. If people have been proved guilty of taking/giving bribes, they should be in prison.


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## KalEl (23 Apr 2007)

Past30Now said:


> Again another misguided comment linking John Carthy to corruption in the Garda Siochana. Nobody, not even Justice Barr or the Carthy family suggested for one second, that corruption had anything to do with the events in Abbeylara. This cynical lazy view that the likes of Dunphy have espoused and Ubiquitous has repeated is highly offensive to the people involved that day.
> 
> Past30


 
Good post...I agree completely.


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## michaelm (23 Apr 2007)

I'd like to see a commitment to democracy.  Put the European Constitution to the people, just the once; not like that shameful carry on after the 'No' to Nice; only the Greens (and I think, the Shinners?) and Dick Roche (before he was offered Minister for Europe) were opposed to a Nice II.  Also all Parties conspired to ensure that there wouldn't be a Presidential election.  Scrap the daft and wasteful Electronic Voting system.  Also I'd like to see an 'Abstain' and/or a 'None of the Above' box on the end of each ballot paper so that those whom wish to exercise their right to vote, but not for the candidates on offer, can register that without being classed as an idiot who can't fill in the ballot paper and being chalked up as a 'Spoilt Vote'.


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## ubiquitous (23 Apr 2007)

Past30Now said:


> Again another misguided comment linking John Carthy to corruption in the Garda Siochana.


Where did I make this link? I never used the word corruption. Of course corruption had nothing to do with John Carthy's death. However it is ludicrous to suggest that the Abbeylara siege in which Carthy died did not involve serious errors on the part of at least some elements in the Garda Siochana. The powers given to police forces in free societies are generally subject to restrictions on the basis that errors and injustices do sometimes occur when police forces enjoy unlimited powers. I don't think it is in any way cynical, lazy or offensive to make this rather obvious point.


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## Past30Now (23 Apr 2007)

ubiquitous said:


> Where did I make this link? I never used the word corruption. Of course corruption had nothing to do with John Carthy's death. However it is ludicrous to suggest that the Abbeylara siege in which Carthy died did not involve serious errors on the part of at least some elements in the Garda Siochana. The powers given to police forces in free societies are generally subject to restrictions on the basis that errors and injustices do sometimes occur when police forces enjoy unlimited powers. I don't think it is in any way cynical, lazy or offensive to make this rather obvious point.



Ubiquitous,

In my opinion by listing John Carthy's name with victims of Garda Corruption in Donegal and elsewhere you have linked his death with corruption in the force.  

Over the last five years, a number of commentators on the national airwaves have mentioned Abbeylara and Donegal, or the Barr and Morris Tribunals as if they were investigating the same type of event.  This is nonsense.  Donegal was a case of clear corruption, where people were framed for crimes by members of a force who in their opinion were above the law.  This was exacerbated by the Garda policy of promoting senior officers to the rank of Superindenent and above and transferring them to the likes of Donegal/Mayo/Kerry for short periods of 6 to 18 months.  This meant that those in situ for long periods of time had little or no effective supervision, as those who were supposed to be supervising never settled in their role.

Abbeylara had nothing to do with corruption.  The Gardai involved in that case did their level best to keep that man alive.  A lack of experience on the part of those involved probably contributed to the error of having the unarmed second cordon of officers too near the scene. That being said if the senior officers had stationed themselves a mile away from the scene, they would have been accused of cowardice.  The lack of experience comes from the fact that drawn out siege's like this do not happen too often.  At the time of abbeylara, no serving member of the force had been involved in a long term siege of that nature, therefore there was no more experienced staff available.  The recommendation on the use of less than lethal weaponry was shown to be a failure in Gort last year, when they shot the guy with the beanbags, and they had no effect.

My basic point is that these two events are in no way similar, and that care should be taken to differentiate between them if it is necessary to include them on any list together.

I appreciate that this comment has nothing to do with the original posters question.

Past30


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## ubiquitous (23 Apr 2007)

posted twice


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## ubiquitous (23 Apr 2007)

Past30Now said:


> My basic point is that these two events are in no way similar, and that care should be taken to differentiate between them if it is necessary to include them on any list together.



I disagree -the Donegal shenanigans &  the Abbeylara tragedy (along with the other cases I listed) each involved serious operational failures (or apparent failures) on the part of at least some elements in the Garda Siochana. At a very basic level, both cases were slmost uniquely similar on the basis that both were deemed to be of sufficiently serious public concern that the Government established respective Tribunals of Inquiry. 

As such, each case is highly relevant to the issue of Gardai powers and accountability (two sides of the same coin, in my opinion).

Once again, I make no suggestion that the deaths of John Carthy, Brian Rossiter or Peter Matthews and the plight of Joanne Hayes, had anything to do with corruption in the Gardai, either of a localised nature as in Donegal or in general. 

I can only surmise as to your motives for implying that I said otherwise.


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## RainyDay (23 Apr 2007)

Seagull said:


> 3) Any government IT project to be held to the same rules as those in the private domain. If it's been outsourced to a private company and doesn't work, they don't get paid.


If only life was that simple. What happens when the system works perfectly to spec (the spec that was written by another set of outsourced consultants), but still doesn't work. What happens when the system works perfectly to spec, but the degree of organisational change required to implement the system is not appreciated by management (e.g. PPARS)? What happens when the system works to spec, but there was no real cost/benefit evaluation done before commissioning (e.g. eVoting)?


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## bond-007 (24 Apr 2007)

1. Proper accountability of the actions of the Gardai. 
2. End of self regulation for the legal profession. Introduction of statutory state body to regulate the actions of members of the legal profession. 
3. ASAI to be put on a statuatory footing so the likes of Ryanair can't continue to ignore them. Or else place under the remit of the BCI.


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## propertyprof (24 Apr 2007)

Am I the only one that still see's obtaining a 32 county Irish republic and increased links with the those in the North as still being a major issue?


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## Purple (24 Apr 2007)

propertyprof said:


> Am I the only one that still see a 32 county Irish republic and increased links with the those in Northern as a major still being a major issue?


It's important but I still think that cake and wine pips it to the post.


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## Seagull (24 Apr 2007)

RainyDay said:


> If only life was that simple. What happens when the system works perfectly to spec (the spec that was written by another set of outsourced consultants), but still doesn't work. What happens when the system works perfectly to spec, but the degree of organisational change required to implement the system is not appreciated by management (e.g. PPARS)? What happens when the system works to spec, but there was no real cost/benefit evaluation done before commissioning (e.g. eVoting)?


If you're going to outsource it, you do it at the top level to a firm that will project manage it. They are responsible for establishing requirements, writing the specs, and providing a finished system. If they want to outsouirce the coding to a third party, that's their choice. That way, you have one set of consultants responsible for the entire project, and they are held responsible for its success.


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## Purple (24 Apr 2007)

Seagull said:


> If you're going to outsource it, you do it at the top level to a firm that will project manage it. They are responsible for establishing requirements, writing the specs, and providing a finished system. If they want to outsouirce the coding to a third party, that's their choice. That way, you have one set of consultants responsible for the entire project, and they are held responsible for its success.


 But then you ahve to get the unions to accept the changes to work practice without looking for more money. That's just not in their nature.


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## Protocol (24 Apr 2007)

*Reform motor taxes*:

Reform VRT so that safe, fuel-efficient cars pay much less, e.g. 0% or 10%, and less safe, high emission cars pay more.

Either abolish motor tax, or reform it as above.

Increase fuel duty by 20c per litre.

All the above to be designed to not take any more tax from motorists, just reform how they pay it, more linked to the environment.

*Simplify and reform the income tax/PRSI system*:

Three tax rates: 20-30-40%
Index-link the tax bands and basic tax credits.
Abolish the trade union and service charges tax credits.
Abolish mortgage interest tax relief.
Abolish most, if not all, property tax incentive schemes.

Merge the helath contribution with PRSI.
Simplify the PRSI rates, thresholds, etc.

*Indirect taxes*:
Cut the lower rate of VAT from 13.5% to 10%.
Abolish VAT on environmental issues.
Maybe tax high fat foods?


Much more *competition* across the economy, especially in pubs, pharmacies, electricity, etc.

Continued investment in *public transport*.

Go ahead with the current five extensions to the Luas network.
Build new tram lines.
Complete the rail link to the airport.
Build the rail tunnel linking Heuston with St. Stephen's Green.
Electrify all commuter lines around Dublin, expand the DART to all lines.

Intergrated fares and ticketing.

Massive increases in speeds required across the national rail network.

Implement congestion charging / road pricing in Dublin. Pay to cross the M50 (no toll along M50).

*Education*:

More investment in primary schools.

Re-introduce third-level fees.


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## RainyDay (24 Apr 2007)

Seagull said:


> If you're going to outsource it, you do it at the top level to a firm that will project manage it. They are responsible for establishing requirements, writing the specs, and providing a finished system. If they want to outsouirce the coding to a third party, that's their choice. That way, you have one set of consultants responsible for the entire project, and they are held responsible for its success.


Again, real life just isn't that simple. At the outset (before you have established the requirements), you really don't know what you are outsourcing. Therefore, no supplier will enter a fixed price contract for the complete project. And if you are tied in to one supplier on a T&M contract, the supplier has you over a barrell. 

In all fairness, if you think this is the right way to manage major IT projects, you can't throw stones at any public sector projects.


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## bond-007 (24 Apr 2007)

propertyprof said:


> Am I the only one that still see's obtaining a 32 county Irish republic and increased links with the those in the North as still being a major issue?


A united Ireland is something that will not be good. Frankly, It scares the bejaysus out of me just thinking of the prospect. I shall be leaving Ireland promptly if it ever came to pass.


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## room305 (25 Apr 2007)

bond-007 said:


> A united Ireland is something that will not be good. Frankly, It scares the bejaysus out of me just thinking of the prospect. I shall be leaving Ireland promptly if it ever came to pass.



I'd be following. Subventions to NI are around the €7.5 billion mark. Can imagine the tax burden we would be inflicted with trying to match that? That's before any political considerations ...


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## Purple (25 Apr 2007)

Protocol said:


> *Simplify and reform the income tax/PRSI system*:
> 
> Three tax rates: 20-30-40%
> Index-link the tax bands and basic tax credits.
> ...


How does adding a third tax band simplify things? I don’t think it’s a good idea.
I agree with the rest.



Protocol said:


> *Indirect taxes*:
> Cut the lower rate of VAT from 13.5% to 10%.
> Abolish VAT on environmental issues.
> Maybe tax high fat foods?


All good but how is the lost tax revenue going to be made up? 




Protocol said:


> Much more *competition* across the economy, especially in pubs, pharmacies, electricity, etc.


 Pubs are loosing money. The reason we have high prices is because of high rents (due to high property prices), high insurance and high minimum wages.



Protocol said:


> Continued investment in *public transport*.
> 
> Go ahead with the current five extensions to the Luas network.
> Build new tram lines.
> ...


 All good ideas. How much will it cost? I agree with congestion charges but only after the rest of the infrastructure is in place.



Protocol said:


> *Education*:
> 
> More investment in primary schools.
> 
> Re-introduce third-level fees.



I also agree with these points. More investment in primary schools will help the poorer in our society. Any extra money should go into education for 5-8 year olds. If kids get a good grounding by that age they have a real chance.
If third level fees are reintroduced the income should go towards helping those who really need it, not well off families who, with a bit of planning, would have no problem sending their kids to 3rd level.


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## edo (25 Apr 2007)

Protocol said:


> *Reform motor taxes*:
> 
> Reform VRT so that safe, fuel-efficient cars pay much less, e.g. 0% or 10%, and less safe, high emission cars pay more.
> 
> ...



Good Call Protocol - A lot of commonsense proposals in there - most I agree with with the exception of a few caveats - most of which Purple has already mentioned.

One other thing which I think is massively important seems to have got no coverage recently at all is pensions - in particular pension tax relief - I think that everybody regardless of taxband should be entitled to the same % of tax relief on their income when it comes to putting money aside for retirement - I find it bit hypocritical that a sizeable majority of the workforce who are currently without pensions are among the lower paid and it really isn't worth yourwhile unless you are getting the top rate of tax relief - yet the politicos and our betters are screaming at them to start pensions without providing any real incentive for them to do so.

My beef for the day.


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## ubiquitous (25 Apr 2007)

Protocol said:


> Reform VRT so that safe, fuel-efficient cars pay much less, e.g. 0% or 10%, and less safe, high emission cars pay more.


I doubt if this will add up. Reducing VRT from 20%-odd to zero on certain models will mean it would be necessary to increase it to 40%-odd on other models, if the Revenue base remains unchanged. I doubt if this would be practical. At the very least, the govt could expect major competition lawsuits from certain car manufacturers and from the EU.




Protocol said:


> Increase fuel duty by 20c per litre.



I thought the govt had already done this on a phased basis, several times in the past 15 or so years. As has the UK government. Higher fuel duty has had negligible impact on car use in either jurisdiction, and its only effect has been to enrich the IRA and other smugglers. High fuel taxation has also a perverse impact in that it incentivises the State to encourage more car use as the more fuel is used the more State revenue is generated. The same applies to tax on drink and cigarettes. Had the Irish Govt not enjoyed such a massive revenue boom in recent years they could never have afforded to clamp down on smoking.



Protocol said:


> *Simplify and reform the income tax/PRSI system*:
> 
> Three tax rates: 20-30-40%.


???



Protocol said:


> Abolish most, if not all, property tax incentive schemes.


Has this not already been done?



Protocol said:


> Merge the helath contribution with PRSI..


ditto



Protocol said:


> Cut the lower rate of VAT from 13.5% to 10%..



By far the biggest contributor of 13.5% VAT is the construction industry. Are you really in favour of cutting their VAT burden by over a quarter?



Protocol said:


> Abolish VAT on environmental issues..


As defined by who? Dick Roche? Come on...



Protocol said:


> Maybe tax high fat foods?


Most high-fat foods (confectionery, sweets & other foods defined as "non-essential") are already subject to VAT at 21%


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## propertyprof (25 Apr 2007)

room305 said:


> I'd be following. Subventions to NI are around the €7.5 billion mark. Can imagine the tax burden we would be inflicted with trying to match that? That's before any political considerations ...


 
Well I suppose money means more than anything else to some people.

Personally I think that it truely is a disgrace that many many Irish people have a blind spot when it comes the "Northern Ireland" - short memories I suppose


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## ubiquitous (25 Apr 2007)

propertyprof said:


> Personally I think that it truely is a disgrace that many many Irish people have a blind spot when it comes the "Northern Ireland" - short memories I suppose



Indeed. To the point that at least one convicted bomb-maker (Dessie Ellis) is widely tipped to be elected to the Dail next month and a convicted importer of illegal arms (Martin Ferris) is chastised more for an alleged drink driving incident than his involvement in IRA terrorism.


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## propertyprof (25 Apr 2007)

ubiquitous said:


> Indeed. To the point that at least one convicted bomb-maker (Dessie Ellis) is widely tipped to be elected to the Dail next month and a convicted importer of illegal arms (Martin Ferris) is chastised more for an alleged drink driving incident than his involvement in IRA terrorism.


 
"IRA terrorism" eh! Where the leaders of 1916 terrorist also? As for the actions of Ellis and Ferris during the troubles - what would you suggest the do - sit idly by (like many west brits or as I call them Free State Unionist) while the Irishmen we (in the 26 counties) sold down the river with the treaty.

At least they wernt cowards and had the balls to stand up and do something. But thats just my opinion.


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## RainyDay (25 Apr 2007)

Purple said:


> I also agree with these points. More investment in primary schools will help the poorer in our society. Any extra money should go into education for 5-8 year olds. If kids get a good grounding by that age they have a real chance.
> If third level fees are reintroduced the income should go towards helping those who really need it, not well off families who, with a bit of planning, would have no problem sending their kids to 3rd level.



So following this logic, we should reintroduce fees for 2nd level schools as well, right?


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## ubiquitous (26 Apr 2007)

propertyprof said:


> "IRA terrorism" eh! Where the leaders of 1916 terrorist also? .



Yes - anyone (such as the Real IRA & Osama Bin Laden) who rejects politics and attempts to enforce change through illegal force of arms is by definition a terrorist.



propertyprof said:


> As for the actions of Ellis and Ferris during the troubles - what would you suggest the do - sit idly by (like many west brits or as I call them Free State Unionist) while the Irishmen we (in the 26 counties) sold down the river with the treaty.
> 
> At least they wernt cowards and had the balls to stand up and do something. But thats just my opinion.



So the rest of us who didn't "do something" (ie promote, facilitate or engage in the the bombing of children and other innocents as in Warrington, Omagh and elsewhere or in the illegal importation or arms for similar purposes) have something to be ashamed of?


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## Purple (26 Apr 2007)

RainyDay said:


> So following this logic, we should reintroduce fees for 2nd level schools as well, right?


No. You stretch my logic to an illogical degree. We've been around the block on this before and while I respect your opinion on this (and most things) I don't think it will serve any good to get into it again.


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## room305 (26 Apr 2007)

propertyprof said:


> Well I suppose money means more than anything else to some people.



€7.5bn represents about 15% of all revenue estimated to be collected by the state in 2007. I consider it far too much of a sacrifice to make to appease a few misty-eyed romantics and various hardline republicans.

Perhaps the move could be funded through voluntary income deductions - I'm sure the money would be whipped up in no time ;-)


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## propertyprof (26 Apr 2007)

room305 said:


> €7.5bn represents about 15% of all revenue estimated to be collected by the state in 2007. I consider it far too much of a sacrifice to make to appease a few misty-eyed romantics and various hardline republicans.
> 
> Perhaps the move could be funded through voluntary income deductions - I'm sure the money would be whipped up in no time ;-)


 
Obviously the total would shared with the UK Government for the foreseeable years after any reunification.


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## shanegl (26 Apr 2007)

Sounds like a very bad deal for the UK then. Partly fund NI for years after they have zero sovereignty over it? I can just imagine the population up in arms over that. They already resent being net contributers to the EU as it is. The only way I could see us getting extra cash would be by renogotiating our deal with the EU to take into account our new economic burden.


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## jmayo (26 Apr 2007)

I could see the British tax payers loving us for asking them to pay for 6 counties they longer have stake in.  If and when Britain do pull out you will not see them for dust, they will be glad to be shut of it.
Maybe there should be a new slogan "Brits out - but leave your wallet".
Anyway what would happen to the diesel smugglers?


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