# Who should have a right to stand for the Presidency?



## TheBigShort (4 Sep 2018)

As a side, I wonder if the general public are mostly unaware of the requirements to get a name on the ballot for the President? 
Im thinking the referendum that failed to reduce the legal age from 35 to 18.
I know one person who was concerned that some teenage pop sensation could one day get elected on a wave of populism.Using the office to further career in entertainment rather than exercising the duties of the President, he voted against the age reduction. 
Personally, im of the view that if anyone, regardless of their age, can convince a county council or members of the Oireachtas to put their name forward on then ballot, then I think they deserve the opportunity.


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## odyssey06 (4 Sep 2018)

TheBigShort said:


> As a side, I wonder if the general public are mostly unaware of the requirements to get a name on the ballot for the President?
> Im thinking the referendum that failed to reduce the legal age from 35 to 18.
> I know one person who was concerned that some teenage pop sensation could one day get elected on a wave of populism.Using the office to further career in entertainment rather than exercising the duties of the President, he voted against the age reduction.
> Personally, im of the view that if anyone, regardless of their age, can convince a county council or members of the Oireachtas to put their name forward on then ballot, then I think they deserve the opportunity.



I'd be less bothered by this specific age restriction, than by the cumbersome process to get on the ballot. 

Given the ceremonial nature of the office, I don't think the 35 year old limit is any great hindrance. Anyone under 35 who went for it should be discouraged!

Sean Gallagher got 500,000 first preference votes last time. It's absurd he may not be on the ballot this time.
I'm not proposing a free for all, but just throwing ideas out there - maybe 1-2 councils should be enough, 7 members of the Oireachtas, and maybe automatic eligibility if you have been full cabinet minister, supreme court judge etc


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## Brendan Burgess (4 Sep 2018)

I think that the screening process should be much more demanding. It should be like the American system where candidates would have to go through a series of primaries.  Anyone could contest the primaries, but the election itself would be limited only to statesmen and stateswomen of the highest calibre with an unimpeachable reputation and sense of dignity.

Brendan


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## odyssey06 (4 Sep 2018)

Brendan Burgess said:


> I think that the screening process should be much more demanding. It should be like the American system where candidates would have to go through a series of primaries.  Anyone could contest the primaries, but the election itself would be limited only to statesmen and stateswomen of the highest calibre with an unimpeachable reputation and sense of dignity.



Is this your secret plot to ensure there is no President? Because I don't know who we have here who fits that description! 
And it didn't seem to work in the US either given all the scandals Clinton & Trump are caught up in...


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## Purple (4 Sep 2018)

Brendan Burgess said:


> I think that the screening process should be much more demanding. It should be like the American system where candidates would have to go through a series of primaries.  Anyone could contest the primaries, but the election itself would be limited only to statesmen and stateswomen of the highest calibre with an unimpeachable reputation and sense of dignity.
> 
> Brendan


We have a non-executive with limited power who is righty constrained by the Government.
The Americans elect a king every 4 years.


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## Purple (4 Sep 2018)

TheBigShort said:


> Personally, im of the view that if anyone, regardless of their age, can convince a county council or members of the Oireachtas to put their name forward on then ballot, then I think they deserve the opportunity.


Given that the President gets a pension of €141,000 a year and Garda protection for the rest of their life bringing the cost per year after they leave office to at least €500,000 I wouldn't be a big fan of a 21 year old serving 7 years and then costing the State €35,000,000 until they pop their clogs.


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## cremeegg (4 Sep 2018)

Brendan Burgess said:


> the election itself would be limited only to statesmen and stateswomen of the highest calibre with an unimpeachable reputation and sense of dignity.
> 
> Brendan



Brilliant.


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## Purple (5 Sep 2018)

Brendan Burgess said:


> the election itself would be limited only to statesmen and stateswomen of the highest calibre with an unimpeachable reputation and sense of dignity


...said in a high pitched lyrical Galway accent...


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## RETIRED2017 (5 Sep 2018)

Purple said:


> ...said in a high pitched lyrical Galway accent...


 backed by two sleeveens one from Dublin and the other from Cork,


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## Leper (8 Sep 2018)

Brendan Burgess said:


> I think that the screening process should be much more demanding. It should be like the American system where candidates would have to go through a series of primaries.  Anyone could contest the primaries, but the election itself would be limited only to statesmen and stateswomen of the highest calibre with an unimpeachable reputation and sense of dignity.
> 
> Brendan



This should apply to all people seeing election to Dáil Éireann and the Sentate not just those in the race to become President. Hands Up those in the Dáil and Senate who qualify!


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## RETIRED2017 (8 Sep 2018)

Purple said:


> Given that the President  will a pension of €141,000 a year and Garda protection for the rest of their life bringing the cost per year after they leave office to at least €500,000 I wouldn't be a big fan of a 21 year old serving 7 years and then costing the State €35,000,000 until they pop their clogs.



 FG and what is left of FF? which for the most part have become FG  people  support the same canididate,

 People who vote FF? will change to FG at the next election weather FF? like it or not seeing there is no difference just the Dublin leader has out smarted another cork Man again,


 For now FG/FF? are supporting a candidate who will be 78 next April and is due to retire when he is almost 85 so he is due to retire when he is 84 why not change the age for payout of the President  retirement pension to 84 seeing FF? and what is to become FG are all into saving money for the taxpayer,


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## RETIRED2017 (8 Sep 2018)

Leper said:


> This should apply to all people seeing election to Dáil Éireann and the Sentate not just those in the race to become President. Hands Up those in the Dáil and Senate who qualify!


I think it is already happening there are few  Dail  Eireann  and retired union people who would love to run for President but they know they will have to account for there past actions ,


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## sandrat (15 Sep 2018)

Used to always annoy me when I was a young wan that you had to be 35. Now I’m 35 I think it should be at least 50.


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## michaelm (10 Oct 2018)

sandrat said:


> Used to always annoy me when I was a young wan that you had to be 35. Now I’m 35 I think it should be at least 50.


I'd have a minimum age of 60 and limit it to one 7 year term.


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## Purple (10 Oct 2018)

michaelm said:


> I'd have a minimum age of 60 and limit it to one 7 year term.


And proof that they have a terminal illness or won't take the Garda protection after they retire.

What's going to happen to Michael D when he retires, other than getting lost in some high grass?

Is Mary Mc going to keep getting her Garda detail when she's working in her new job in Scotland?


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## RETIRED2017 (10 Oct 2018)

sandrat said:


> Used to always annoy me when I was a young wan that you had to be 35. Now I’m 35 I think it should be at least 50.


You should have gone for President if you are 35 only sure way of being sure of a state pension ,


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## cremeegg (16 Oct 2018)

While I think that the present system of nomination by 20 Oireachtas members or 4 councils is reasonable, after watching the candidates I think the councils should have exercised more discretion in supporting some of their nominees.

My prediction for this election. The big take away will be that solid SF support is much lower than opinion polls suggest.

They are polling at 24% for a general election, an actual presidential vote in single digits will do them some damage.


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## Purple (16 Oct 2018)

I've previously posted about the cost of providing Garda protection/ Garda drivers to former Presidents. I was incorrect; that was removed for all former  Taoisigh and Presidents by Minister Alan Shatter in 2011. They now get drivers provided on State occasions.


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## Ceist Beag (17 Oct 2018)

cremeegg said:


> While I think that the present system of nomination by 20 Oireachtas members or 4 councils is reasonable, after watching the candidates I think the councils should have exercised more discretion in supporting some of their nominees.
> 
> My prediction for this election. The big take away will be that solid SF support is much lower than opinion polls suggest.
> 
> They are polling at 24% for a general election, an actual presidential vote in single digits will do them some damage.


+1 cremeegg, I think it is very clear some candidates are in this purely for profile knowing they have absolutely no chance of winning. It is demeaning the office imho and the councils should bear some responsibility for this. I'd agree as well that the results could damage SF although I think NiRiadha might get beyond single digits, possibly not by much though and nowhere near where the party is polling.


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## Ceist Beag (17 Oct 2018)

For what it's worth, this is my take on the candidates.

Peter Casey: The neck on this lad running for president. Clearly he's just in it for a few lines on his cv and to stir the pot a bit whenever he gets the chance.
Joan Freeman: She might grow as the campaign goes on but right now she seems way out of her comfort zone. I admire her achievements to date but she is not someone I would consider for president.
Gavin Duffy: Clearly Gavin thinks he is worthy of being president ... I'm not sure too many others share his view. Another who has more to gain professionally from just being there.
Liadh NiRiadha: She comes across as an experienced politician and probably had to run once SF dug their heels in to demand an election was held. Unfortunately for her, Martin McGuinness got less than 14% the last time around and to paraphrase a famous quote, she is no Martin McGuinness!
Sean Gallagher: You lost the last time out Sean and obviously feel sore about that. In the time since then you have done nothing to garner support from the people and you're refusing to go on debates. Quite why anyone should vote for you this time around I don't know.
Michael D: Said last time around he wouldn't run again, then obviously decided this wasn't a bad life. Showing a certain amount of arrogance this time around not bothering to even show up for some debates. Clearly it's a shoe in that he will win again unless his arrogance leads to some almighty cockup. The biggest question is how many will actually bother to vote.


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## Delboy (17 Oct 2018)

Peter Casey has just won himself a few more % points following this mornings Indo podcast and his comments on Traveller culture


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## TheBigShort (17 Oct 2018)

Im guessing Peter Casey may as well withdraw from the election now and save his money. 
His comments about Travellers and the office of President do not fit. 
Although I think Claire Byrne called him out by suggesting "former Irish Presidential candidate" as a nice calling card for his business interests abroad.

He seems like a nice man and good luck to him. But he should use his business nous now and save himself money. Id back him to finish last or quit.


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## Delboy (17 Oct 2018)

He's on the ballot paper now so no point in quitting 9 days out.


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## peemac (18 Oct 2018)

TheBigShort said:


> Im guessing Peter Casey may as well withdraw from the election now and save his money.
> His comments about Travellers and the office of President do not fit.
> Although I think Claire Byrne called him out by suggesting "former Irish Presidential candidate" as a nice calling card for his business interests abroad.
> 
> He seems like a nice man and good luck to him. But he should use his business nous now and save himself money. Id back him to finish last or quit.


Actually a very clever move by Casey and could see him garner enough votes to get a refund on expenses up to €200k.

He said what an awful lot of people were thinking and many will vote for him as a silent message that the government should stop pandering to travellers. Yes, treat them EQUALLY, but I can't see any reason for special treatment.

He'll get my vote and then my second preference will go to who I want as president. Though MDH will still walk away with it


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## TheBigShort (18 Oct 2018)

No disrespect, but I suspect any votes he garners will be eclipsed by the amount he will lose. 
Im not defending Travellers, they can do that for themselves. But I think anyone with an ounce of wit will recognise that his views and the Office of President of Ireland are wholly incompatible now. 
I would be prepared to wager that his first preference votes will be the lowest return of any candidate ever in the history of Presidential elections.


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## Ceist Beag (19 Oct 2018)

I think you're wrong TBS. Before his comments he stood at 1% in the polls. Rightly or wrongly, I would be very confident he will gain a lot more than 1% now as a result of the past few days.


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## Delboy (19 Oct 2018)

You suspect wrong TBS...he'll get a lot of votes on the back of his comments, especially in rural areas where people have to 'deal' with Traveller's on a regular basis.

As for the other candidates on the VM debate the other night all saying they'd have no issue with a halting site being built beside their home....liars!


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## Delboy (19 Oct 2018)

Casey just announced he's taking the weekend off to consider his position


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## demoivre (19 Oct 2018)

peemac said:


> Actually a very clever move by Casey and could see him garner enough votes to get a refund on expenses up to €200k.
> 
> He said what an awful lot of people were thinking and many will vote for him as a silent message that the government should stop pandering to travellers. Yes, treat them EQUALLY, but I can't see any reason for special treatment.
> 
> He'll get my vote and then my second preference will go to who I want as president. Though MDH will still walk away with it



My sentiments exactly. However it is high time we treated travellers EQUALLY and stop letting them away with illegal fires, roaming horses and dogs, filth, pollution and criminality because none of the rest of us would get away with it. Absolutely sick to death pf Pavee point playing the race card anytime anyone calls it as it is.


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## TheBigShort (19 Oct 2018)

Not surprised. 
Casey is currently 1/2 fav to receive lowest first preference votes. 
By 'suspending' his campaign with a week to go he has effectively quit.


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## peemac (19 Oct 2018)

Delboy said:


> Casey just announced he's taking the weekend off to consider his position


If by chance he's reading this, I'd strongly urge him to stay in the race. 

It will serve to show pavee point and FG that unless travellers change THEMSELVES and the criminality a very large number engaged in, they will continue to attract the ire of the public


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## TheBigShort (20 Oct 2018)

peemac said:


> If by chance he's reading this, I'd strongly urge him to stay in the race.
> 
> It will serve to show pavee point and FG that unless travellers change THEMSELVES and the criminality a very large number engaged in, they will continue to attract the ire of the public



I think you are hoping against hope. Casey seems like a decent man. His whole pitch was about his linkages to the Irish diaspora around the world and as a former emigrant and successful business person, how he wanted to use the presidency to exploit those connections for the benefit of Ireland - personally, I thought his spin was a bit 10yrs behind the curve. I recall David McWilliams and others touching on same topic.
Anyone recall "The Gathering"?

Instead however, he has found himself embroiled in controversy about Travellers that I suspect he landed in inadvertently rather than as part of a strategic strategy to drum up votes.
My understanding is ( and I can't verify this) is that he went against the advice of his campaign team by not meeting representatives of Traveller community in Tipperary when he had the chance. Some of his campaign team have since quit.

I suspect he will announce that he is no longer in the running, or if he does continue there will be scant campaigning, no TV, radio, etc.

This must a huge setback and disappointed for the obscure portion of the population who dream of having an anti-Traveller president and actually thought they had a candidate.


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## TheBigShort (21 Oct 2018)

Peter Casey back in the race. He appears to have abandoned his "unite the diaspora" routine for more right-wing ideological nonsense. 
His campaign team must have abandoned altogether now - he is running for the wrong office


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## peemac (21 Oct 2018)

In betting, betting w/o Higgins, Peter Casey has gone from 16/1 to 7/1 today. 

At an event last night all the talk was about Casey and a large number were planning to give him their vote - way above what I expected.


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## joe sod (21 Oct 2018)

TheBigShort said:


> Peter Casey back in the race. He appears to have abandoned his "unite the diaspora" routine for more right-wing ideological nonsense.
> His campaign team must have abandoned altogether now - he is running for the wrong office



He knows he is not going to win but he is bringing up topics that need to be discussed in Ireland. Nobody is able to argue against his points because they are true and the majority of people know that, they are attacking him because he dared to bring these topics up for discussion in the first place. The usual tactic by the media is to personally assasinate such people so that they disappear from the public discourse and to frighten other people away from talking about these issues. That is the one good thing that will come out of this campaign he will have broken the omerta imposed by the media for so long.


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## TheBigShort (21 Oct 2018)

joe sod said:


> Nobody is able to argue against his points



Eh, I don't think so. 
His 'points' are typical hyperbole. He basically applied wholesale generalisations to the Traveller community, ignoring all the good work that a lot of people from that community have done to break the cycle of poverty, discrimination and disadvantage that faces members of the Traveller community. 
His refusal to meet members of the Traveller community in Thurles, which he used to try highlight his 'point', says more about his own ignorance, prejudice and shows how unsuited he is for the office of President. 

I agree he is raising issues that need to be discussed. But they are being discussed, in depth. The conclusions of which are to recognize that Travellers have their own ethnic identity. That they face discrimination and disadvantage throughout their lives, perpetuating the cycle of poverty which in no small part leads to poor levels of education, shortened lifespans, welfare dependency and no doubt, in some instances, criminality. 

Casey has his views, but unlike all the other candidates for President, his views appear to be based on a one-sided perception. This is how ignorance and prejudice breed.


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## Sunny (22 Oct 2018)

Peter Casey doesn't care about the presidential race. There is no presidential race. Higgins for some reason (voter apathy and lack of alternatives) has the race sown up.

I wouldn't be surprised however if you see Peter Casey on a different ballot paper in the near future. And while he might be guilty of clumsy and some downright stupid comments, mainstream politicians and media better be careful of just writing off these views as some sort of minority, right wing racist view point. There are many ordinary people on ordinary salaries in this Country who see a row about empty 5 bed houses because of lack of land about horses. They see people on welfare do better out of the budget than people in work. They are stuck in unsuitable first time buyer houses as their families grow and unable to move. They spend increasing amount of time commuting to jobs because of lack of spending on infrastructure and being priced out of urban centres. They see the OPC lose €28 million on a land deal involving the HSE. They see a health service that is just swallowing ever increasing amount of tax revenue with no discernible improvement in services. They see billions being spent on social and affordable housing and still read about homeless children so where is the money going? Obviously not to the ones that need it most. We just throw more money at it. The list is endless....

The majority of people in this Country are FF and FG voters. Irish people are by nature centre voters. We have never entertained extreme left or right wing viewpoints. But looking at the reaction to Casey's comments, there is a real complacency that what is happening in other European Countries will never happen here. There was a rush to condemn the comments and write everyone who said he had a point off as racist ignorant imbeciles. If the main political parties don't wake up, we are all going to the pay the cost of increasingly racist and divisive politics.


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## Firefly (22 Oct 2018)

Peter Casey is now doomed after speaking out about those in welfare, sure he has just alienated over 2m people!!!!


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## TheBigShort (22 Oct 2018)

I just got my Peter Casey "small country BIG NATION" election card in the post today. 
- developing relationships with Irish abroad
- develop broadband and 4G for rural areas
- campaign for SME's to penetrate markets abroad to Irish diaspora. 
- Increased transparency on the costs of the Presidencey.

Not a word about Travellers or the 'welfare State'. 

Im not saying issues surrounding Travellers or our welfare programs should not be discussed, far from it. Im just somewhat perplexed at how Casey has turned his campaign from the above into generalised rhetoric against certain sectors of society. 
I would agree with those who think Casey is just using the lowest common denominator as a strategy to boost votes. It is quite cynical actually (after me thinking he was a nice guy!) considering his whole pitch for president was on a different path altogether.

I would agree that he has touched a nerve with some people and that it would be dangerous to ignore such views. When times are tough alot of people have a tendency to finger put poor people, as being the cause of their own hardships. 
The same people rarely get as worked up over things such as the quarterly Revenue defaulters list. This list is revealing insofar as it gives a good indication of who in society are really not paying their fair share in taxes. 
Even though Casey has not much hope of being elected, even if he did, he wouldn't have done anything about the issues he is raising now - he wouldn't know where to begin. Instead he would've concentrated on what he would probably good at, which is listed on his election literature. 
I doubt if we will ever see him again running for public office. He is a man in control of his own affairs, able to make decisions to suit his own needs. Public office is a different beast altogether as George Lee quickly found out.


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## Purple (22 Oct 2018)

I think Sunny makes an excellent point; as long as the liberal center ignore real and legitimate concerns about abuse of welfare and waste in the provision of public services it undermines our social contract and leaves room for the extremes. Trump, Brexit, Corbyn, Orbán in Hungary and Mateusz in Poland are all symptoms of the same problem; complacent and ineffective centrist governments over the last 20-30 years. The result isn’t just anger at the government, it is the undermining of the institutions of the State and therefore of democracy itself.

South American governments are often run by dictators, from Chavez in one side to Pinochet on the other. The same happens in much of Africa. Democracy has to give us government for the people if it is to prosper and last. At the moment the perception is that our government doesn’t do that and as far as politics is concerned perception is reality.

We ignore the silent majority as our peril as once they start making noise it becomes loud and angry very quickly and actions taken in anger are rarely the correct ones.


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## Purple (22 Oct 2018)

TheBigShort said:


> I would agree that he has touched a nerve with some people and that it would be dangerous to ignore such views. When times are tough alot of people have a tendency to finger put poor people, as being the cause of their own hardships.
> The same people rarely get as worked up over things such as the quarterly Revenue defaulters list. This list is revealing insofar as it gives a good indication of who in society are really not paying their fair share in taxes.


In the context of your position about generalising about people you don't like or are easy targets for some sectors of society I hope the irony of the above comments are not lost on you.
Are you suggesting that such concerns are borne of resentment and bigotry rather than balance and a sense of fairness?


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## TheBigShort (22 Oct 2018)

Purple said:


> Are you suggesting that such concerns are borne of resentment and bigotry rather than balance and a sense of fairness?



Its the sense of unfairness and imbalance that breeds resentment and bigotry. 
I dont dislike anyone, I just think that people that have in fact been found not to be paying their fair share of taxes should bear most of the ire from a Presidential candidate rather than the people he perceives as not paying their fair share of taxes, especially if it is something he really cares about and especially if he is unable to substantiate his claims over what has already been substantiated by a legal authority of the State to which he wants to preside over.


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## Purple (22 Oct 2018)

TheBigShort said:


> Its the sense of unfairness and imbalance that breeds resentment and bigotry.
> I dont dislike anyone, I just think that people that have in fact been found not to be paying their fair share of taxes should bear most of the ire from a Presidential candidate rather than the people he perceives as not paying their fair share of taxes, especially if it is something he really cares about and especially if he is unable to substantiate his claims over what has already been substantiated by a legal authority of the State to which he wants to preside over.


Especially when that sense of imbalance is based on actual imbalance.
You can agree with the points he is making while at the same time asking him why he isn't talking about tax cheats. The constant attempt by the Left to invalidate the concerns of those who see waste and welfare abuse using tax cheat whataboutery is part of the reason we see loathsome people like Trump rise to the top.
It is reasonable and legitimate to call out welfare cheats, scroungers and criminals. It is dispicable that some of those people hide behind ethnicity and are willing to tar all of their own people with that brush to defend themselves.


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## TheBigShort (22 Oct 2018)

Purple said:


> The constant attempt by the Left to invalidate the concerns of those who see waste and welfare abuse using tax cheat whataboutery



Im not trying to invalidate any concerns he is raising. As for tax cheat whataboutery, it was Casey who raised the issue of Travellers not paying their fair share.
If he has real concerns about this of course they should be discussed.



TheBigShort said:


> I agree he is raising issues that need to be discussed.





TheBigShort said:


> Im not saying issues surrounding Travellers or our welfare programs should not be discussed, far from it.





TheBigShort said:


> I would agree that he has touched a nerve with some people and that it would be dangerous to ignore such views.



I hope I dont have to keep repeating myself. 

The only issue I have with Casey is whether or not he is genuine concerned about welfare dependency or Travellers or any of it. I suspect he is not. Because looking at his campaign literature, he has either inadvertently or deliberately omitted any reference to issues he is now raising in public. 
Either this is a cynical ploy to whip up some votes or he is generally concerned about these issues and wants to use the office of President to raise these issues in the public arena. 
If he is genuinely concerned, then he is wholly incompetent as he has omitted these issues from his campaign literature. 
If he is that incompetent then its hard to consider his views as anything but rhetoric. 
He is unsuited for President. He should, if he was genuine, put himself forward for the Dail on the issues that he has raised. If he gets a mandate from the people then his views, regardless of what I think of them, demand respect.


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## cremeegg (22 Oct 2018)

The media's efforts to trivialise any serious discussion and to highlight everything trivial make a big contribution to undermining the social contract.

Today RTE seem to think that the major issue in the Presidential debate, is why Michael D flew to Belfast, last week it was Peter Casey's views on travellers, the week before how often presidential expenses should be audited.

What aspects of the social contract need to be revised to deal with coming demographic change. Not mentioned.

Balancing the need to reward work with the need to support those unable to work. Not mentioned. Despite his views on this being one of Michael D's main political strengths.


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## cremeegg (22 Oct 2018)

TheBigShort said:


> I hope I dont have to keep repeating myself.



You dont have to, you choose to.


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## peemac (22 Oct 2018)

TheBigShort said:


> Not surprised.
> Casey is currently 1/2 fav to receive lowest first preference votes.
> By 'suspending' his campaign with a week to go he has effectively quit.


A week is a long time in politics  
Now 4/1 for lowest 1st pref, 5/1 to come second to higgins and as low as 25/1 for the win.
Ladbrokes have restricted bets on him to €28.15 (25 stg). 

And word is Gavin Duffy may come out with something tomorrow evening  

It's suddenly become interesting. 

Higgins to get under 40% 1st pref at 66/1 looks very enticing


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## blueband (23 Oct 2018)

having a go at the travellers was a clever way of getting a few extra votes, lets face it, very few people like them and they only make up a tiny minority of the population, plus I doubt very many of them vote. having a go at people receiving welfare is not such a good idea and I think it will come back to bite him, the fact is a huge number of people are in receipt of a welfare payment in one form or another, so they are not going to be giving him their vote now. my money is still on Higgins to win it comfortable, cant say im a big fan of his but he is seen a safe pair of hands in the office of president, ie..he is not going to stand up and say something to embarrass himself or the country...and I think most people will vote "safe" on this one. anyway thats just my two cents worth.


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## elacsaplau (23 Oct 2018)

How many untrue statements does MickeyD have to make before his coronation would be impacted? We know, for example, that his promise to be a one-termer has been jettisoned and his shifting Lear Jet explanations are, well, shifty. Does anyone care?


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## odyssey06 (23 Oct 2018)

elacsaplau said:


> How many untrue statements does MickeyD have to make before his coronation would be impacted? We know, for example, that his promise to be a one-termer has been jettisoned and his shifting Lear Jet explanations are, well, shifty. Does anyone care?



How dare you? Don't you know he's on the right side of all the right on causes? And you bring up a stubburn thing like the truth? Have you no shame?
Truth is for mere mortals.


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## Delboy (23 Oct 2018)

The Sun are searching hard it seems but so far this is the best they can find....Sabina brought a flower arranger to Oz on an official trip as her PA

https://www.thesun.ie/news/3290012/michael-d-higgins-australia-visit-floral-arranger/


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## Purple (23 Oct 2018)

odyssey06 said:


> How dare you? Don't you know he's on the right side of all the right on causes? And you bring up a stubburn thing like the truth? Have you no shame?
> Truth is for mere mortals.


Well said. Michael D is a socialist and all socialists are of high moral character. 

Peter casey better be careful or Michael D will be waiting in the long grass for him... literally (sorry, couldn't resist).


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## peemac (23 Oct 2018)

PaddyPower must have their hands on a new poll.

Casey now 2/1 to come second (I'll be ever so happy with that as I've a few bob at 16/1, 12/1 & 9/1!). Value gone with that

Value bet now has to be Higgins 1st Pref 40%-50% 20/1 with Ladbrokes. 

Whilst Higgins will win, it will be used by many to say send a message that the government must stop pandering to those who abuse social welfare, take everything and give nothing back.

With the Red C poll showing PBP and Solidarity at 0%, there's a certain change in the air.


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## Sunny (23 Oct 2018)

Made the mistake of turning on the debate. God, has there ever been a lineup of less impressive candidates??


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## elacsaplau (23 Oct 2018)

If we truly get the politicians we deserve, then on tonight's showing, we're banjaxed!


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## Purple (25 Oct 2018)

Sunny said:


> Made the mistake of turning on the debate. God, has there ever been a lineup of less impressive candidates??


Has there ever been a public figure with a higher opinion of themself than Michael D?


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## Delboy (25 Oct 2018)

Purple said:


> Has there ever been a public figure with a higher opinion of themself than Michael D?


Any of the last 3 Presidents. Must be something in the Áras!


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## Purple (25 Oct 2018)

Delboy said:


> Any of the last 3 Presidents. Must be something in the Áras!


I disagree. He brings arrogance and slftagrandisment to a whole new level.


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## odyssey06 (25 Oct 2018)

Purple said:


> I disagree. He brings arrogance and slftagrandisment to a whole new level.



I disagree. He returns arrogance and agrandisement to the level last seen in Ancien Regime France.


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## john luc (25 Oct 2018)

despite the pole rating of 70% I cannot find one person that is boring for Michael D. Not like it's a strong topic of conversation but anyone I've spoken to has said they were not voting for him. I must move in strong circles so.


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## john luc (25 Oct 2018)

that should read voting not boring


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## TarfHead (25 Oct 2018)

If you're consorting with people intending to vote for Peter Casey ..


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## Sunny (25 Oct 2018)

I don’t get Sinn Fein. They were the ones going on about uncontested elections and they had a point. But then they put forward a candidate that would make me support Brexit if that is the caliber of MEP in the EU. Nigel Farage might have been right all along! As for Michael d, he is beyond insufferable to listen too.


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## Purple (26 Oct 2018)

Sunny said:


> As for Michael d, he is beyond insufferable to listen too.


How DARE you say that about Michael D, our President, Moral compass, greatest living poet and role model for all those who seek to live a life of authenticity and virtue.

If I've left anything out I apologise to the President, it is just that I am sometimes blinded by his aura of perfection.

People say he lacks humility but how can he be humble when he has nothing to be humble about?


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## john luc (26 Oct 2018)

I can just visualise him now as he looks in the mirror in the morning and he is encouraged to sing. His favourite song must be"oh Lord it's so hard to be humble".


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## cremeegg (26 Oct 2018)

I did a (very scientific) poll this morning in a work canteen.

About half definite Michael D voters, half the rest with Liadh Ni Riada Joan Freemen and Peter Casey doing better than the other dragons.

The big divide among those I spoke to was on age. Anyone over 45 was for Michael D with no regard for the others. The younger people were much more open to considering any candidate.

That may show younger people are more open minded, or maybe just not too bright !


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## Duke of Marmalade (27 Oct 2018)

peemac said:


> PaddyPower must have their hands on a new poll.
> 
> Casey now 2/1 to come second (I'll be ever so happy with that as I've a few bob at 16/1, 12/1 & 9/1!). Value gone with that
> 
> ...


Good call


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## Purple (27 Oct 2018)

Thankfully Michael D is back for another 7 years as the Nations moral compass.

We’ve also voted to remove blasphemy (a victimless crime) from the constitution, thank God.


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## Purple (27 Oct 2018)

Can anyone tell me where I can get a WWMDD bumper sticker for the car?


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## cremeegg (27 Oct 2018)

Purple said:


> Can anyone tell me where I can get a WWMDD bumper sticker for the car?



Go on enlighten us. You know you want to.


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## odyssey06 (27 Oct 2018)

Purple said:


> Can anyone tell me where I can get a WWMDD bumper sticker for the car?



You can't get them for a car. Only a private jet... or maybe a yacht?


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## blueband (27 Oct 2018)

odyssey06 said:


> You can't get them for a car. Only a private jet... or maybe a yacht?


do jets or yachts have bumpers?


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## Purple (30 Oct 2018)

cremeegg said:


> Go on enlighten us. You know you want to.


You can get a "What Would This post will be deleted if not edited immediately Do" sticker. 
Given that we are all atheists now I want a "What Would Michael D Do" sticker as he's at least as virtuous as This post will be deleted if not edited immediately.


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## Duke of Marmalade (30 Oct 2018)

I see some folk trying to play down the Casey vote with comments like "less than a quarter".  The fact is that if we exclude the very popular incumbent, Casey got more votes than the other four put together.  In fact if MD had been honourable and kept his promise not to stand for a second term Casey would have won on the first count.  And when you think that from start off Casey had the least popular profile (1% polls), being a multi millionaire non Irish taxpayer, I would say that sympathy with his winning messages is shared by a majority of populace.


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## cremeegg (30 Oct 2018)

I was going to like the Duke's post above. But I didn't because I don't like it. 

However, I do think that it is a better analysis of the Casey phenomenon than anything I have seen elsewhere.

FOT has a good piece in the IT today, which doesn't attempt to analyse Casey's vote, rather comment on it.


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## Purple (30 Oct 2018)

cremeegg said:


> FOT has a good piece in the IT


Usually an oxymoron.


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## Duke of Marmalade (30 Oct 2018)

cremeegg said:


> FOT has a good piece in the IT today, which doesn't attempt to analyse Casey's vote, rather comment on it.


According to FOT a vote for Casey was a fascist vote.  Thus in his worldview Tipperary is 3 times as fascist as enlightened Dun Laoghaire. Itself a very prejudiced assessment.  Just maybe it is because Tipperary are at the receiving end of the anti social behaviour.


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## odyssey06 (31 Oct 2018)

Duke of Marmalade said:


> According to FOT a vote for Casey was a fascist vote.  Thus in his worldview Tipperary is 3 times as fascist as enlightened Dun Laoghaire. Itself a very prejudiced assessment.  Just maybe it is because Tipperary are at the receiving end of the anti social behaviour.



FOT should look in the mirror if he wants to see a fascist, not Tipperary.


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## cremeegg (31 Oct 2018)

The FOT piece makes the point that where tensions between travelers and settled people have arisen in the past, politicians rather than exploiting those tensions for political gain, have sought to resolve matters.

It is an excellent point.

Where tensions arise in society would you rather your elected representative take sides and inflame feelings to build their own support.

Or would you rather see them act as a bridge between opposing groups.

Where tension is based around policy differences it is reasonable to be a partisan of your beliefs. Where tension revolves around identity that is different.

We have been well served in this regard by our political class for many years. Since Garret perhaps ?


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## odyssey06 (31 Oct 2018)

cremeegg said:


> The FOT piece makes the point that where tensions between travelers and settled people have arisen in the past, politicians rather than exploiting those tensions for political gain, have sought to resolve matters.
> 
> It is an excellent point.
> 
> ...



The reaction is because the pendulum has swung too far to the other side.
It's not building a bridge when all the concessions and costs are borne by one side. 
Nobody is speaking for the side that picks up the bill.
Feelings aren't being inflamed. They already were and nobody was listening.
It's not being partisan to look for equal application of the law.


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## Purple (31 Oct 2018)

odyssey06 said:


> The reaction is because the pendulum has swung too far to the other side.
> It's not building a bridge when all the concessions and costs are borne by one side.
> Nobody is speaking for the side that picks up the bill.
> Feelings aren't being inflamed. They already were and nobody was listening.


It is not unreasonable for those who have more to foot the bill. I have no problem with money being spent on social and educational supports for Travellers. I have no problem with “one side footing the bill”, especially when that one side constitutes 99% of the population.  

I do have a problem with the lack of moral courage by Traveller representatives. They need to call out criminality within their own community. They need to call out domestic violence and child marriage and other things which are never acceptable, no matter what you “tradition”. When that happens they will have credibility. At the moment they have none. In keeping silent they invalidate the very real issues that the Traveller community face.



odyssey06 said:


> Feelings aren't being inflamed. They already were and nobody was listening.


 That's true and Fintan and those who occupy the moral high ground while keeping those who they whine about at arms length through economic apartheid are not serving anyone with moralistic mewling which ignores reality.



odyssey06 said:


> It's not being partisan to look for equal application of the law.


It is if the law itself is  partisan.


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## odyssey06 (31 Oct 2018)

Purple said:


> It is not unreasonable for those who have more to foot the bill. I have no problem with money being spent on social and educational supports for Travellers. I have no problem with “one side footing the bill”, especially when that one side constitutes 99% of the population.



I do if that 1% is evading its responsibility to contribute in line with its capacity to do so.



> I do have a problem with the lack of moral courage by Traveller representatives. They need to call out criminality within their own community. They need to call out domestic violence and child marriage and other things which are never acceptable, no matter what you “tradition”. When that happens they will have credibility. At the moment they have none. In keeping silent they invalidate the very real issues that the Traveller community face.  That's true and Fintan and those who occupy the moral high ground while keeping those who they whine about at arms length through economic apartheid are not serving anyone with moralistic mewling which ignores reality.



Well said.



> It is if the law itself is  partisan.



Whats aspect of Irish law is partisan against people living a traveller lifestyle?

And remember it was fascists who were keen on special privileges for certain ethnic identities and special laws for others.
Today it's supposed to be the fascists who are opposed to the creation of different identities for different citizens.
Makes no sense.


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