# Council installing Speed Ramps that do not comply with Legislation



## Marathon Man (10 Nov 2012)

My local council is in the process of installing a speed ramp/elevated pedestrian crossing on my road, a cul-de-sac with just 25 houses.  I have a number of issues:

a) The ramp height is to be 150mm (100mm is the legal max)
b) It is at a junction (ramps must be a minimum of 8 metres from a junction)
c) It is 20m from the nearest street light (May not be installed unless it is within 5m)
d) it is within 30m of a pedestrian crossing. (Must not be within 30m)

I understand that this is the legislation covering speed ramps *S.I. No. 32/1988 — Road Traffic (Bollards and Ramps) Regulations, 1988*

I have been in contact with the Council, but I am not getting any change from them..."All the works are compliant with relevant national standards and the design has undergone a Road Safety Audit."...when, from above, things clearly are not right.

My Q.  Can I get an injunction against the Council, preventing them from installing something which is not in compliance with legislation.  I presume that the answer is yes.  If so, how much is this likely to cost?..and can I recoup those costs against the Council? 

Anyone else have a similar experience?

Btw, a 150mm ramp is one heck of a ramp!


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## annfield (10 Nov 2012)

Link to these standards?


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## Marathon Man (10 Nov 2012)

No idea what standards the Council are referring to - these weren't cited in their response.  However the info in the Regulations, in my opinion, is sufficient to shoot down the installation.


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## ajapale (10 Nov 2012)

Moved from  Askaboutlaw to Cars, cycling and transport where this type of discussion is held on AAM.


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## ajapale (10 Nov 2012)

OP what you describe sounds like a "raised table" at a junction or an "elevated pedestrian crossing". I dont want to be pedantic here but what you describe is not a "ramp" as such.

Having said that 150mm would seem excessive. What is the slope (gradient) in to the "ramp" 1:10, 1:15? How wide is the table/ramp?

Heres one being constructed in Kilcullen Co Kildare.*








*


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## Marathon Man (10 Nov 2012)

ajapale, we are talking about the same thing. Documentation received from a local councillor refers to "raised ramps".  All these ramps/tables etc must comply with SI 32/98 Road Traffic (Bollards & Ramps) Regulations. These stipulate a maximum height of 100mm - ours are going to be 152mm (6") high. (Btw, the ramp in the photo you posted looks to be 3" to 4" ours is going to be 50-100% higher!!)  In addition, several other required measures are also contravened.

My reason for posting in Askaboutlaw was to seek advice/opinions: 





Marathon Man said:


> Can I get an injunction against the Council, preventing them from  installing something which is not in compliance with legislation.  I  presume that the answer is yes.  If so, how much is this likely to  cost?..and can I recoup those costs against the Council?



I expect to be looking into the legal route on Monday, as the "ramp" portion of the works are likely to proceed next week.


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## ajapale (10 Nov 2012)

What is the gradient of the "ramp"? If it is 1:10 or flatter then it doesn't matter much how high it is because you will be eased onto it.

Was there a public consultation process? Have you spoken to the counsellor who referred to the "raised ramps" or perhaps he is the proposer. What do your neighbours think?

Has it been constructed yet?

In any case it will be interesting to hear what your solicitor thinks.


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## ajapale (10 Nov 2012)

The road traffic act of 1994 may supersede the SI you mention.

*Appendix A: Extract from the Road Traffic Act, 1994: Traffic calming measures* 
_38.—(1) A road authority may, in the interest of the safety and  convenience of road users, provide such traffic calming measures as they  consider desirable in respect of public roads in their charge.

2) A road authority may remove any traffic calming measures provided by them under this section. 

3) Before providing or removing traffic calming measures under this  section of such class or classes as may be prescribed, a road authority  shall— 

( a ) consult with the Commissioner; 
( b ) publish a notice in one or more newspapers circulating in the functional area of the authority— 
    (i) indicating that it is proposed to provide or remove the measures, and 
    (ii) stating that representations in relation to the proposal may be  made in writing to the road authority before a specified date (which  shall be not less than one month after the publication of the notice); 

( c ) consider any observations made by the Commissioner or any representations made pursuant to paragraph (b) (ii). 
(4) The making of a decision to provide or remove traffic calming  measures of a class prescribed under subsection (3) and the  consideration of observations or representations under paragraph ( c )  of that subsection shall be reserved functions. 
(5) Traffic calming measures shall not be provided or removed in respect  of a national road without the prior consent of the National Roads  Authority. 
(6) The Minister may issue general guidelines to road authorities  relating to traffic calming measures under this section and may amend or  cancel any such guidelines and, where any such guidelines are, for the  time being, in force, road authorities shall have regard to such  guidelines when performing functions under this section. 
(7) A traffic calming measure provided under this section shall be  deemed to be a structure forming part of the public road concerned and  necessary for the safety of road users. 
( 8 ) ( a ) A person who, without lawful authority, removes or damages  or attempts to remove or damage a traffic calming measure provided under  this section shall be guilty of an offence. 
( b ) An offence under this subsection may be prosecuted by the road  authority in whose functional area the acts constituting the offence  were done.
_ _[FONT=&quot]9) In this section— [/FONT]_
_[FONT=&quot]"provide" includes erect or place, maintain and (in the case of an instrument for giving signals by mechanical means) operate and cognate words shall be construed accordingly; and [/FONT]_
_[FONT=&quot]"traffic calming measures" means measures which restrict or control the speed or movement of, or which prevent, restrict or control access to a public road or roads by, mechanically propelled vehicles (whether generally or of a particular class) and measures which facilitate the safe use of public roads by different classes of traffic (including pedestrians and cyclists) and includes the provision of traffic signs, road markings, bollards, posts, poles, chicanes, rumble areas, raised, lowered or modified road surfaces, ramps, speed cushions, speed tables or other similar works or devices, islands or central reservations, roundabouts, modified junctions, works to reduce or modify the width of the roadway and landscaping, planting or other similar works. [/FONT]_


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## ajapale (10 Nov 2012)

Some interesting reading here: 7MB pdf file.

*Traffic Management Guidelines - National Transport Authority*



> Size
> No minimum or maximum dimensions are currently prescribed
> for the height, widths and lengths of vertical deflections in
> Ireland. However, it is important that these features are designed
> ...


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## Marathon Man (10 Nov 2012)

Thanks for those ajapale.  All weekend, I've been trying to contact a friend who knows all about this stuff.....hope he's back before Monday!


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## Marathon Man (11 Nov 2012)

I should have said earlier that this is a (new) combined pedestrian crossing/ramp, on a cul-de-sac, and will be located right at a junction (with the majority of traffic turning and little straight on traffic). 


ajapale said:


> What is the gradient of the "ramp"? If it is 1:10 or flatter then it doesn't matter much how high it is because you will be eased onto it.


The gradient is 1:8, per Council design, however there is a natural fall at this point, increasing this to 1:6.8.
The 1:10 gradient relates to 75mm high ramps.  This will be 150mm high.  Ramps over 100mm are not permitted in the UK (in documentation referred to by NRA, National Transport Authority & others)


ajapale said:


> Was there a public consultation process?


No idea, haven't been able to find out  There was certainly no attempt to contact the Residents Assoc - I'm the contact between Council & assoc.  


ajapale said:


> Have you spoken to the counsellor who referred to the "raised ramps" or perhaps he is the proposer.


Can't get in contact with him. He did a mail drop during the week - this is how we found out about the ramp. I am in contact with other councillors, but apart from being sympathetic, they seem to know little about it.


ajapale said:


> What do your neighbours think?


They're in arms!  Everyone very unhappy.  Consensus is that this will increase the risk of accidents, rather than reduce them.  


ajapale said:


> Has it been constructed yet?


 All the associated works are either complete or almost so. Unless we can stop it, I expect the ramp to go in late this week/next week.


ajapale said:


> In any case it will be interesting to hear what your solicitor thinks.


Yeah, I think I'll need to talk to him tomorrow, no matter what advice I get in the meantime - assuming my Civil Engineer friend comes home at all!


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## mataba (11 Nov 2012)

Try talking to the council engineer. He will have to sign off on it and if it's not legit the buck will stop at him.


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## Kimmagegirl (14 Nov 2012)

You might also include that the ramp might interfere with the flow of water to the various storm drains or cause flooding. They wanted to put one of these huge elevated structures outside my house on a T junction. I would have had to reverse over it when exiting my house. I said that it was also a safety hazard for me.


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## dereko1969 (14 Nov 2012)

Why do you think this will increase accidents/incidents?

Have you asked for a copy of the Road Safety Audit?


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