# What happens if I decide to ignore my debt?



## justintime (30 Oct 2005)

Hello,

I owe about 15k in debt (loan and credit card.) I cannot afford to pay it back. It is really bothering me (I worry about it everyday.) 

If I move house and change my name to it's Irish equivalent (something I am considering doing for personal reasons), and decide to ignore my debt, what will happen?

They surely won't be able to track me down...
I'll have a new ICB file under my new name...

Will they just give up and write off the debt?

Any opinions appreciated.

PS I don't give a sh*t about banks, so please don't say I should pay off the debt because it's the "right thing to do"!


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## RainyDay (30 Oct 2005)

Hi Justin - OK then, I won't say that you should pay off the debt because it's the right thing to do. I will say that you should pay off the debt because you are ripping off other bank customers and bank shareholders (which includes pretty much anyone who has a pension) by expecting them to pick up your tab.

But to get back to your main question, I reckon you'll have to try just a little harder than that to avoid the ICB. Do you plan on opening new bank account(s) or ever borrowing money under your new name? If so, what documentation will you be offering to open these accounts? What PPS number will you be offering?


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## royrogers (30 Oct 2005)

You will not be able to open a bank account and no credit cards and nearly everything else will be affected with your credit history. What about getting in contact with your creditors and explaining the position to them and also make out a budget.  Write to the creditors and make an offer to pay them all at 10% of the total that is outstanding.   Make sure and explain that you cannot pay anymore and if they refuse the offer then they will have to take you to court and the court will decide what you should pay. If your income is very little then they cannot get blood out of stone.  When you make the offer  to the creditors make sure and say that the payment will be in full and final settlement so they will not be able to come back to you at a later date.



Best of luck


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## bond-007 (30 Oct 2005)

RainyDay said:
			
		

> What PPS number will you be offering?



A bank has no right to ask you what your pps number is. Only a restricted list of people may legally ask you for it.

A person can obtain a new passport and a utlity bill in a new name with no reference to the old name whatsoever. Banks cannot demand birth certs etc.


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## ClubMan (30 Oct 2005)

justintime said:
			
		

> PS I don't give a sh*t about banks, so please don't say I should pay off the debt because it's the "right thing to do"!


Given that many people (possibly including yourself) have direct or indirect investments in bank shares (e.g. through their pensions or general investments) this is a fairly shortsighted and selfish attitude. If you do attempt to abandon your debt then I, for one, certainly hope that they track you down and push for full settlement - through the courts if necessary. If you want to do something a bit more prudent on this front then see the key topics threads pinned at the top of this forum for lots of useful advice and resources about dealing with debt.


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## Chamar (30 Oct 2005)

I think you should pay off the debt because it's the right thing to do.


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## Swallows (30 Oct 2005)

I phoned a number in response to an advert from FAS. This person took my details ( he was not at a FAS office) and it was a mobile phone. He rang me back later and asked for my PPS number. I told him I would not give this information over the telephone as I did not know who I was speaking to. He was really annoyed and said the these PPS numbers can easily be got so did'nt see why I would not let him have the number. I told him to go and find it then if it was that easy.! Needless to say I got no job. 

In response to the person who wants to default on their debt. Yes you can change your name. People do it all the time for all sorts of reasons. The younger you are the easier it is to do. When you get to a certain age you have to think about pensions etc.

Is this not why People go to the sea fold up their clothes and leave them behind and are never seen again!! Some people cannot cope with debt, being harrassed every day by phone calls from debt collectors. Credit is far too easily available and every time I go to check my accounts I find pre approved
this and pre approved that. If I took advantage of it all then I would have to disappear.


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## bond-007 (30 Oct 2005)

> In response to the person who wants to default on their debt. Yes you can change your name. People do it all the time for all sorts of reasons. The younger you are the easier it is to do. When you get to a certain age you have to think about pensions etc.



I agree there. I changed my name a few years ago and it is difficult if you have qualifications/papers in your old name. The passport office recommends that you put your old name on your new name passport, I have no idea if many bother to do so.


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## DrMoriarty (30 Oct 2005)

Chamar said:
			
		

> I think you should pay off the debt because it's the right thing to do.


I think you should pay off the debt because if you don't, you'll regret it one day...


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## Alex (30 Oct 2005)

i'd pay it back if i were you, even if you can only manage small amounts at a time. don't ignore it. you borrowed it, you spent it, you owe it.

Alex.


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## Joe1234 (30 Oct 2005)

bond-007 said:
			
		

> A bank has no right to ask you what your pps number is. Only a restricted list of people may legally ask you for it.



Under money laundering regulations, I believe that you must provide a PPS number to a bank when opening an account.


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## bond-007 (30 Oct 2005)

Joe1234 said:
			
		

> Under money laundering regulations, I believe that you must provide a PPS number to a bank when opening an account.


 Nope, I have opened serveral bank accounts including one recently. No PPS number was asked for nor given. 

The only times they need it would be to do with pensions and SSIAs.


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## ClubMan (31 Oct 2005)

Indeed - individuals are not obliged to supply a _PPSN _when opening most types of account. See  for the sort of information that is required. I think that a _PPSN _was required to open an _SSIA _but I could be wrong. If so then this was more of an exception than the rule.


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## bond-007 (31 Oct 2005)

> I think that a _PPSN _was required to open an _SSIA _but I could be wrong. If so then this was more of an exception than the rule.



It was required to make sure that a person only opened 1 SSIA.


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## d2x2 (31 Oct 2005)

You can't simply ignore your debt as it will haunt you for the rest of your life. You can choose not to pay it, change your name, move countries but you can never ignore your debt. It will keep bothering you. Then you will get caught anyway and all this will have been in vain.

Banks will not just give up and write off the 15K like that, don't count on it. They will find you first, and that is not a difficult thing to do. Or perhaps someone you know will turn you in. Stranger things have happened.

Why not do the right thing now: admit that you can't afford to pay it back now, seek help from Money *Advice* and Budgeting Service (www.mabs.ie) who will give you proper guidance to get out of that situation and can even do a lot of the work for you?


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## bond-007 (31 Oct 2005)

> Banks will not just give up and write off the 15K like that, don't count on it.



I heard of a case of €20000 being owed to a big bank here and the whole thing just suddenly went quiet and several years later the matter is still quiet.


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## ClubMan (31 Oct 2005)

Did the bank explicitly write the debt off or just haven't chased it up (yet)?


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## bond-007 (31 Oct 2005)

From what I recall of the case, the bank had obtained a judgement on it and had an installement order out. They then threatened the debtors with imprisonment and the debtors polietly told them that they had nothing they could offer and the whole thing went quiet. This was serveral years ago. Still quiet to this day.


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## Alex (31 Oct 2005)

i guess it would be hard to get cash out of someone who doesn't have it. the courts would have the same attitude i think.

Alex.


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## Carpenter (31 Oct 2005)

ClubMan said:
			
		

> Indeed - individuals are not obliged to supply a _PPSN _when opening most types of account. See  for the sort of information that is required. I think that a _PPSN _was required to open an _SSIA _but I could be wrong. If so then this was more of an exception than the rule.


 
PPS no. was required to open an SSIA- this was to establish Irish residency in addition to tax implications was it not?


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## ClubMan (31 Oct 2005)

Presumably the bank could be waiting until the debtors do have something tangible to offer at which point they will move to execute the installment order?


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## bond-007 (31 Oct 2005)

Indeed, but waiting several years seems unusual to me.


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## Alex (31 Oct 2005)

bond-007 said:
			
		

> Indeed, but waiting several years seems unusual to me.


 
i agree.

Alex.


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## Joe1234 (31 Oct 2005)

I was asked for my pps number to open a savings account in Bank of Ireland about 18 months ago.


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## royrogers (1 Nov 2005)

As you probably know there is a statutory period which is 5 years and if the company does not recover the debt within that period then they cannot take it any further.  Also the bank was lying as they cannot send anyone to prison for being debt unless it is owed to the government not to banks for credit card debts?


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## Sherman (1 Nov 2005)

> Some people cannot cope with debt, being harrassed every day by phone calls from debt collectors. Credit is far too easily available and every time I go to check my accounts I find pre approved
> this and pre approved that. If I took advantage of it all then I would have to disappear.


 
Give me a break - never hear of personal responsibility *Swallows*?


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## RainyDay (1 Nov 2005)

royrogers said:
			
		

> Also the bank was lying as they cannot send anyone to prison for being debt unless it is owed to the government not to banks for credit card debts?


While this is tecnically correct, people have been imprisoned on debt-related matters. I know of one case where the financial institution (Irish Nationwide) requested a court order to jail an individual whose property they were repossessing, and the court granted the order.


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## Alex (1 Nov 2005)

...but if you make an effort to make some sort of repayment that should look good shouldn't it? at least the person in debt would be acknowledging they owe the money and they are trying to sort things out. by the way i myself am not in debt.

Alex.


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## ASH83 (1 Nov 2005)

HI Justin, I actualy have a post her myself asking about debts that i have . Not wanting to hit you with the one liner the right thing to do but it is, i left my loans for a long time fooling myself that they would dissapper, they dont, i have done the sleepless nights over what i owe and the constently thinking of it. Its not worth it, that consetent sick feeling just is not worth sticking your head in the sand, prob thinking im one to talk but im trying my hardest to sort things out. End of the day money was borrowd and spent so therefor it has to be paid back. I have contacted MABS through the advice of people on this site and to be honest since i rang to make my app. for later this month there is a slight releife because i have started the ball rolling to fix the problem. you may not like banks but i think changing ur whole personal persona is a little drastic and un-nessescery although i can see the thought behind it becuase when you owe money there is always a time when u feel all you can do is something drastic. So all i can say is maybe do what i have been told to do and contact MABS see if the can reduce payments and help with a budget as that is what i was told would happen at my app. when i rang. I really hope you sort yourself out as i know there are some people who think if u owe money ur problem and yes i know what the line responsability for your own actions means but unfourtunetly things are never that clear cut there are a huge number of problems that can accure that start debt there is a lot of strain and worrie that help push you onto the bad road of debt. best of luck x


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## royrogers (1 Nov 2005)

Rainday, I expect the person was not sent down for non payment of debt but as his property was being repossessed he probably would have been because of threatening behavior or something else not because of being debt??


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## Vanilla (1 Nov 2005)

> As you probably know there is a statutory period which is 5 years and if the company does not recover the debt within that period then they cannot take it any further.


 
First of all the statutory period is 6 years, not 5. Secondly any acknowledgement by the debtor of the debt will result in a fresh accrual of right to take action, so that period is extendible.



> Also the bank was lying as they cannot send anyone to prison for being debt unless it is owed to the government not to banks for credit card debts?


 
I don't know where you are getting this from? Banks regularly make committal applications in the district court for failure to pay loans of all sorts.


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## RainyDay (1 Nov 2005)

royrogers said:
			
		

> Rainday, I expect the person was not sent down for non payment of debt but as his property was being repossessed he probably would have been because of threatening behavior or something else not because of being debt??


Hi Roy - I'm pretty sure it wasn't a case of threatening behaviour by the individual in question. It may well have been failure to comply with earlier court orders.


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## Swallows (1 Nov 2005)

I,m sure  Justintime would repay his debt if he had the money, what he is saying is that he can't and so is looking for a way out.

A lot of students in the UK borrowed Student loans and this left them in debt to the tune of anything over £3000 to £15000.

What is happening now is that  they are declaring themselves bankrupt. With no assets they have nothing to lose (except the debt) and after a period of time typically three years they are free to start again.

The government there are now looking at closing this loophole as more and more people were taking advantage of this. In fact if Justin was so inclined he could go down this road and free himself of his debt. He could find out what the law here is regarding voluntary bankrupcy (does it exist) if he has no assets then he could legally free himself of his debt. Perhaps someone could tell us the law on this?.


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## bond-007 (1 Nov 2005)

That would be a verboten discussion topic on here.


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## RainyDay (1 Nov 2005)

Swallows said:
			
		

> In fact if Justin was so inclined he could go down this road and free himself of his debt. He could find out what the law here is regarding voluntary bankrupcy (does it exist) if he has no assets then he could legally free himself of his debt. Perhaps someone could tell us the law on this?.


I'd suggest that you should confirm details of the Irish law on this yourself before you recommend it as a path of action to others. 

I presume you have no difficulty with paying higher rates on your loans and getting a lower pension in your retirement as a result of defaulting on loans by Justin & others.


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## ClubMan (1 Nov 2005)

RainyDay said:
			
		

> I presume you have no difficulty with paying higher rates on your loans and getting a lower pension in your retirement as a result of defaulting on loans by Justin & others.


Not to mention higher bank charges through the financial institutions will attempt to recoup losses attributable to such bad debts.


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## justintime (2 Nov 2005)

Thanks all for the replies.

I know not paying the debt is wrong so please spare me the lectures! I'm really only interested in what will happen to me if decide to ignore my debt and disappear somewhat.

I do know I've never read in the paper about someone going to prison for debt. Thats really my only concern.


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## ClubMan (2 Nov 2005)

> I know not paying the debt is wrong so please spare me the lectures!


Nobody gave you a lecture as far as I can see.



> I'm really only interested in what will happen to me if decide to ignore my debt and disappear somewhat.
> 
> I do know I've never read in the paper about someone going to prison for debt. Thats really my only concern.


It might be worth reading [broken link removed] so - in particular [broken link removed] (my underlining):


> Check back to your list of Priority Debts. You deal with these debts first because:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


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## extopia (2 Nov 2005)

Ash, I hope I don't sound patronising but well done, you did the right thing by taking steps to get yourself out of the debt hole you were in. Taking responsibilitiy is always the best course of action.

By the way, I don't understand why declaring bankruptcy would be a verboten topic. I am not familiar with Irish bankruptcy law but in most countries where such law exists it is considered a very important and necessary consumer and business safeguard.

Here's one example from a business perspective:

[broken link removed]


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## ClubMan (2 Nov 2005)

extopia said:
			
		

> By the way, I don't understand why declaring bankruptcy would be a verboten topic. I am not familiar with Irish bankruptcy law but in most countries where such law exists it is considered a very important and necessary consumer and business safeguard.


In spite of what was said earlier I don't think that bankruptcy is "verboten" as a topic for discussion on _AAM _but, on the other hand, unlike other juristictions I don't think that in _Ireland _individuals can declare personal bankruptcy in order to escape outstanding personal debts so perhaps it's a moot point?


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## bond-007 (2 Nov 2005)

They can declare personal bankruptcy but it ironically requires money. You need €1900 and the €635 filing fee. Its a little used device in Ireland by either creditors or debtors.

If a creditor goes down the road of making a debtor bankrupt they need to be very sure there is a big asset they can force the sale of, as they are forced to pay all the fees arising from the bankruptcy. Otherwise they may get *very* little in the share out and they are stuck with the bill. 

see [broken link removed] for details


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## RainyDay (2 Nov 2005)

justintime said:
			
		

> I do know I've never read in the paper about someone going to prison for debt. Thats really my only concern.


If that really is your only concern, I think you're focussing on the wrong issue. Do you ever plan to buy a house? Do you ever plan to get a credit card? Do you ever plan to get a car loan? 

Like it or not, it is almost effectively impossible to function without credit in this society.


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## royrogers (2 Nov 2005)

Being in debt in Ireland sound very serious to me as nearly everyone is in debt with mortgages and if banks are allowed to send people to prison for non payment then they can have anyone sent to prison for this offence, therefore I would not like to be in possession of a mortgage or any sort of a loan be it credit card or else in Ireland, and if you are ill or had an accident or loose you job then you can go to prison for being in debt to these institutions.  However as Vanilla proclaims to be a solicitor he must know what he is talking about?



I know the statutory time limit is 6 years in the UK but I thought it was 5 years in Ireland.


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## Vanilla (2 Nov 2005)

As I said it is entirely possible for a creditor to pursue a debtor for failure to pay to the point of applying to court to send them to prison, and this happens frequently. Pop down to any civil law day at your local district court and even in the smallest area you will find at least 10 applications for committal to prison on the list. Nor does the prison sentence wipe out the debt. However a court will only imprison someone who has the means to repay ( however small those repayments might be) and doesnt. A court will not imprison someone who doesnt have the means to pay. However as most people could afford say €5 per week or so, then most people do have the means to pay some amount.

And yes, the statutory period is 6 years.


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## ClubMan (2 Nov 2005)

_bond-007 _- thanks for that info on personal bankruptcy. I think it's fair to say that unlike other juristictions such as the _USA _personal bankruptcy is a lot rarer a course of action in _Ireland_?

_royrogers _- being in debt is not necessarily the problem. It's not being able to service the debt or defaulting on it that is!


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## Molly (2 Nov 2005)

back to the original question. 



> If I move house and change my name to it's Irish equivalent (something I am considering doing for personal reasons), and decide to ignore my debt, what will happen?
> 
> They surely won't be able to track me down...
> I'll have a new ICB file under my new name...


 
When a lending institution requests an ICB report, they supply name , address and Date of birth. it only requires 2 matches for a lender to determine that a articular debt belongs to someone. if you change your name to its irish equivilant .. ie from John Murphy to Sean O Mhuirchu you still have the same name and date of birth. lenders regularly run an ICB on the english version of an Irish name if they dont get a match under the Irish spelling. So if you ignore this debt its highly likely that if you apply for any further credit at any time in the future, the ICB will match this debt back to you As it will match on name and date of birth. Ive worked for 10 years in financial services and can tell you as have the majority of previous posters that ignoring a Debt is NEVER a good idea and that is without question the best advise your going to get.


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## royrogers (2 Nov 2005)

I certainly would not like to have a large mortgage in Ireland based on what Vanilla says.  I am surprised that people go to prison for non payment of debts.  The tax payer will have financed the person in prison for the time that they will be there it makes no sense to me.


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## ClubMan (2 Nov 2005)

Don't forget that a mortgage is secured on a capital asset (the property) which (other than in cases of negative equity) is worth more than the outstanding loan (e.g. the loan to value ratio is less than 100%). This is very different from having a large unsecured loan.


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## Observer (2 Nov 2005)

Hang on a second.  A bank cannot send ANYBODY to prison for failing to pay a debt.  Repeat: NOBODY goes to prison for failing to pay a debt.  You can only go to prison for *failing to obey a court order* to pay the debt in such instalments as the court may decide.  And a court will not order you to do the impossible. 

As for the morality of it.......well, we all must make up our own minds on that.  Do bear in mind, though, AIB and the ICI scandal, NIB and tax evasion (ie theft from the rest of us), virtually all banks and the DIRT/bogus non-resident scams, overcharging, AIB directors "tax issues!"  And so on.  Then you can decide whether banks are deserving of our morality in return.  The "...its the shareholder, not the bankyou're defrauding argument..." is ridiculous.  Are the shareholders unaware of the banks proclivities? Hardly!  Then, as rational investors, they must factor in a consequent fall in the level of respect and regard the banks will be held in by the public.  With any consequent adverse effect in debtor behaviour towards the banks.

Won't fix your credit rating though!!  Bloodsucking leeches win every time.... Could try a deed poll change of name, though.........


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## bond-007 (2 Nov 2005)

royrogers said:
			
		

> I certainly would not like to have a large mortgage in Ireland based on what Vanilla says.  I am surprised that people go to prison for non payment of debts.  The tax payer will have financed the person in prison for the time that they will be there it makes no sense to me.


 Actually the banks have to reinburse the state for the costs of the imprisonment.


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## ClubMan (2 Nov 2005)

Observer said:
			
		

> Bloodsucking leeches win every time....


Spongers who attempt to abandon their debts leaving other to pick up the pieces and cover the cost? I agree.


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## Observer (3 Nov 2005)

ClubMan said:
			
		

> Spongers who attempt to abandon their debts leaving other to pick up the pieces and cover the cost? I agree.


Or that AIB director who availed of the tax amnesty to abandon (the vast bulk of) HIS lawful debt leaving the rest of us to pick up the tab.  All fully legal, of course.  But shabby and sponging, eh?


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## ClubMan (3 Nov 2005)

Yes - for what it's worth I always had severe reservation about the various tax amnesties and how people benefited from them. Do you have any more info about that specific case (e.g. a link to reports about it) as I'm not familiar with it?


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## royrogers (3 Nov 2005)

Bond, if it the banks that are paying for debtors to be in prison then they will be on bread and water leftovers!


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## Vanilla (3 Nov 2005)

> Actually the banks have to reinburse the state for the costs of the imprisonment.


 
Really? How interesting. Perhaps you could point out the specific legislation that enforces such payment.


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## justintime (4 Nov 2005)

I've been doing a lot of thinking about this and I'm going to pay my debt. Not for moral reasons (I can't believe people are standing up for banks - your argument that it's the shareholder who suffers is BS - using that logic the shareholder is responsible for when the banks rip off the public!)

I'm going to pay my debt because I know it's easier than I think. I just have to get the right frame of mind.

Thanks for the advice.


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## ClubMan (5 Nov 2005)

justintime said:
			
		

> I've been doing a lot of thinking about this and I'm going to pay my debt. Not for moral reasons (I can't believe people are standing up for banks - your argument that it's the shareholder who suffers is BS - using that logic the shareholder is responsible for when the banks rip off the public!)


How exactly are the banks ripping you off in this case? If you don't pay up then you are ripping them off. What has your debt got to do with any of the banking scandals/overcharging issues that have arisen in the recent past?


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## justintime (5 Nov 2005)

ClubMan said:
			
		

> How exactly are the banks ripping you off in this case? If you don't pay up then you are ripping them off. What has your debt got to do with any of the banking scandals/overcharging issues that have arisen in the recent past?


 
I am saying... if your argument is "I have shares in AIB so if you don't pay back the debt it is screwing me over!", well my response to that would be "Because you are part owner of AIB, your overcharging screwed me over... bastard!!!! "


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## ClubMan (5 Nov 2005)

How exactly are you being "screwed" or ripped off here? You ran up credit card debts at rates that are clearly advertised and then contemplated running away from these debts. If anybody was potentially being screwed or ripped off here it was the banks, their shareholders and their customers who would presumably have to make up such bad debts in higher charges or lower returns etc. But seeing that you have decided to pay your dues presumably this won't happen after all.


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## justintime (5 Nov 2005)

No, you're totally misreading what I'm saying.

Nevermind.


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## ClubMan (5 Nov 2005)

It's hard to misread the following:


			
				justintime said:
			
		

> I'm going to pay my debt. Not for moral reasons (I can't believe people are standing up for banks - your argument that it's the shareholder who suffers is BS - using that logic the shareholder is responsible for when the banks rip off the public!)
> 
> ...
> 
> well my response to that would be "Because you are part owner of AIB, your overcharging screwed me over... bastard!!!!


but feel free to explain the subtle nuances that are buried in there to me if you like.


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## justintime (5 Nov 2005)

?????

I shall explain again.

If you have shares in AIB you are a part owner of AIB. That means when AIB rips off it's customers (and AIB are well known for this happening) that means as part owner you are partly responsible.

So, using this logic, if, as a part owner of AIB, you think it is disgraceful that someone might screw over AIB, I think it is slightly hypocritical, considering you have been ripping people off yourself!

...

It was only a minor point. Let's move on


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## ClubMan (5 Nov 2005)

But what has any of this got to do with your debts and your quandry about either running away from or settling them?


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## RainyDay (5 Nov 2005)

justintime said:
			
		

> If you have shares in AIB you are a part owner of AIB. That means when AIB rips off it's customers (and AIB are well known for this happening) that means as part owner you are partly responsible.
> 
> So, using this logic, if, as a part owner of AIB, you think it is disgraceful that someone might screw over AIB, I think it is slightly hypocritical, considering you have been ripping people off yourself!


So were you personally overcharged by AIB, Justin?

You are correct insofar as shareholders bear responsibility for the actions of the company. Shareholders do have limited powers to impose their views on such companies through voting for/against directors and/or speaking at AGM.s They also pay the price of those actions, where the bank was fined or penalised.


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## extopia (5 Nov 2005)

justintime, I agree - the shareholder IS partly responsible for the behaviour of the banks. I don't think anyone would disagree with that. The board of a public company is elected by its shareholders, and the board is ultimately responsible for the behaviour of management. If that behaviour is unethical or criminal well then the shareholders as the owners of the company are ultimately to blame. The small shareholder may not, of course, be able to do anything about the voting patterns of large institutional shareholders but if s/he does not agree with the choice of board members etc well then s/he can sell her shares and walk away.

But if you enter a contractual relationship with a financial insitution to pay back a loan that's an entirely seperate issue.


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## ASH83 (8 Nov 2005)

Hi Just in time,

Glad you changed your mind! Ring MABS they should help sort you out!
Best of luck with paying it off


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## ClubMan (8 Nov 2005)

_quarterfoun _- your post has been split into a separate thread here.


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## CCOVICH (8 Nov 2005)

In relation to AIB and overcharging, the original amounts have been paid back with interest and penalties, so in a sense, the shareholders have been punished (I'm not in any way condoning the overcharging).

I have no investments in AIB so I don't care either way, I just think it's worth pointing out that's what happened.


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## soc (13 Nov 2005)

justintime said:
			
		

> I am saying... if your argument is "I have shares in AIB so if you don't pay back the debt it is screwing me over!", well my response to that would be "Because you are part owner of AIB, your overcharging screwed me over... bastard!!!! "



Heck, while out shopping, if you think something is overpriced... feck paying the price! just shoplift the item.  
Justintime, your sort of thinking is thievery.  

-soc


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## justintime (1 Feb 2009)

Update...

You'll be happy to know I payed back the debt. It was painful but it has taught me a good lesson. I'm now able to save about half my wage every month, so not only am I now debt free, but I also have about 10,000 in savings, and this increases by about 1,500 every month.

It took me a few years to build up the debt, and a few years to get out of it, but I did the right thing in the end.

Thank you everyone for the advice.


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## cleverclogs7 (1 Feb 2009)

justintime said:


> Hello,
> 
> I owe about 15k in debt (loan and credit card.) I cannot afford to pay it back. It is really bothering me (I worry about it everyday.)
> 
> ...


 

IF it was that easy,dont you think that everyone in your situation would do the same think.
Right now everyone is going through hardship,not just you.if you set up meetings with the ppl you owe money to,maybe you can all come to some arangement.


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## Sarn (1 Feb 2009)

cleverclogs7 said:


> IF it was that easy,dont you think that everyone in your situation would do the same think.
> Right now everyone is going through hardship,not just you.if you set up meetings with the ppl you owe money to,maybe you can all come to some arangement.


The original post was from 2005. Check the update from the OP above yours.

That's great to hear justintime. It's a good story of how people can get out of debt and get back on track.


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## exbroker (2 Feb 2009)

ICB can match Irish and English surnames, ie Walsh to Breathnach etc. If there is any overlap on addresses, dates of birth, occupation, etc, it will come back with a "partial match". It's really very hard to escape.


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## dub_nerd (2 Feb 2009)

Alex said:


> i guess it would be hard to get cash out of someone who doesn't have it. the courts would have the same attitude i think.
> 
> Alex.


 

Far from it -- Google *prison for debt in ireland*. Well over 200 people are jailed for not paying debt each year, and it is trending upwards ... closer to 300 last year.


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## Mena (4 Feb 2009)

dub_nerd said:


> Far from it -- Google *prison for debt in ireland*. Well over 200 people are jailed for not paying debt each year, and it is trending upwards ... closer to 300 last year.



In fairness, those imprisoned usually have no leg to stand on, as they have a ) run away from their debts and b ) are in contempt of court.

If you do not attend your court hearing, the judge has no facts and figures to work from, and thus makes an "educated guess" as to how much you are able to repay each of your creditors. If you a) refuse to pay this amount or b ) cannot afford it, you are in contempt, and will likely suffer a prison term.

If you actually showed up at the court hearing in the first place, you could argue your case, present facts and figures i.r.o. your current financial situation and the judge will make you pay a reasonable, affordable amount, even if it is €5.00 a week.

Interesting article here: 



			
				Paul Joyce said:
			
		

> FLAC Senior Policy Researcher Paul Joyce said: "We can suggest ways that the percentage of people in prison for debt-related offences might be substantially reduced or eliminated. The initial hearing at which a decision is made to order repayment of a debt by instalments is often not attended by the debtor, as that hearing is in open public court and attendance is not compulsory. This usually results in an instalment being ordered that the debtor cannot afford. This in turn leads to default in payment and a further application to have the debtor imprisoned. The debtor will usually not appear at this hearing either, having at this stage well and truly opted out of what is a long-winded and intimidating process.



At least, this is how I understand it. Feel free to correct me please.

And congratulations Justintime, nice work.


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## Perplexed (4 Feb 2009)

There is another side to people not paying their debts.
In the present climate a few non-nationals took out loans & then skipped the country. The result of this is that now, some of their countrymen genuinely looking for a loan are finding it very difficult to get one.
When anyone defaults it makes the lender far more cautious....................yikes maybe it would have been good if this happened a few yrs back ???!!!
Congratulations Justintime, I'm sure you feel a lot happier for having done the right thing


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## bond-007 (6 Feb 2009)

Mena said:


> In fairness, those imprisoned usually have no leg to stand on, as they have a ) run away from their debts and b ) are in contempt of court.
> 
> If you do not attend your court hearing, the judge has no facts and figures to work from, and thus makes an "educated guess" as to how much you are able to repay each of your creditors. If you a) refuse to pay this amount or b ) cannot afford it, you are in contempt, and will likely suffer a prison term.
> 
> ...



I know of many cases where a Judge made no order because a persons sole income was social welfare payments. 

If a person cannot pay as opposed to won't pay they will not be imprisoned. People here seem not to be able to get to grips with that simple fact.

I also agree that the process of examining a debtors means should be conducted in camera. If it was people would not ignore the process. I have seen debtors reduced to tears in the witness box after some very sharp questioning by solicitors. I have seen solicitors acting for the big boys being told off in open court for their masters actions. It would be far easier if these types of cases were dealt with in private.


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