# Things you can't do anymore now you're self employed..



## Ancutza (21 Jun 2010)

Remember the days when you worked for someone else?  After a hard day today, and with a grueling week ahead of me, I was thinking about the things I miss from the days when I didn't work for myself.....

Top of the list...throwing a 'sickey' because you just can't be asked...


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## callybags (21 Jun 2010)

Next Friday would be pay-day.


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## D8Lady (21 Jun 2010)

Ask the IT support guys for help.


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## AgathaC (21 Jun 2010)

Give out about the boss..


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## becky (21 Jun 2010)

AgathaC said:


> Give out about the boss..


  Love it.  I don't work for myself but have a few friends who do. One tells me he now works for the vat man, the bank man and his wife, who all tell him what they want and when they want it.


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## Leper (21 Jun 2010)

Oh Blast - If I have that round of golf Thursday morning, will I miss that sale?


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## Ancutza (22 Jun 2010)

> next friday would be pay-day.



lol!


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## Firefly (22 Jun 2010)

I don't go to staff meetings and have performance reviews with SMART goals for the year etc. Really miss those  I tell ya


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## Lak (22 Jun 2010)

Get even a single solitary pennies help from the state if your business sinks after paying in tens of thousand to the public purse in taxes.


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## PyritePete (22 Jun 2010)

Firefly said:


> I don't go to staff meetings and have performance reviews with SMART goals for the year etc. Really miss those  I tell ya


 
SMART goals... one of the biggest ironies of all time


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## Jim Davis (22 Jun 2010)

I don't have to thread on egg shells when dealing with female colleagues and can decide to hire.

I don't have to pay as much tax and can make generous pension contributions.

I don't get told what to do by someone less qualified and experienced than me and feel resentful for it and towards them because they're father is well connected.


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## Complainer (22 Jun 2010)

legs-akimbo said:


> Get even a single solitary pennies help from the state if your business sinks after paying in tens of thousand to the public purse in taxes.


Could that have anything to do with not making the same PRSI contributions as employees make?


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## Firefly (22 Jun 2010)

Complainer said:


> Could that have anything to do with not making the same PRSI contributions as employees make?


 
"Would if I could but I can't" springs to mind


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## Complainer (22 Jun 2010)

Firefly said:


> "Would if I could but I can't"


Or to be clearer, would if I could *while keeping all the other benefits of being self-employed*, but I can't.

You want your bread buttered on both sides.


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## Firefly (22 Jun 2010)

Complainer said:


> Or to be clearer, would if I could *while keeping all the other benefits of being self-employed*, but I can't.
> 
> You want your bread buttered on both sides.


 
Can you give me 1 reason why the self-employed should not be allowed to pay higher Pay Related Social _Insurance_ aka stamps?


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## Complainer (22 Jun 2010)

Firefly said:


> Can you give me 1 reason why the self-employed should not be allowed to pay higher Pay Related Social _Insurance_ aka stamps?


Why don't you ask Jim. He seems to have a good understanding of the financial benefits of being self-employed.

My main concern would be that the insured person (the self-employed person) has some degree of control over the insurable event (e.g. making himself redundant, closing the company down). You generally can't insure against your own actions.


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## Firefly (22 Jun 2010)

Complainer said:


> Why don't you ask Jim. He seems to have a good understanding of the financial benefits of being self-employed.
> 
> My main concern would be that the insured person (the self-employed person) has some degree of control over the insurable event (e.g. making himself redundant, closing the company down). You generally can't insure against your own actions.


 
Regarding Jim's 2nd point - the tax advantages of old are largely closed off to the majority of self-employed people. The one area that remains is the increased pension payments that can be made. However, as less tax is payable now, additional tax will be payable when the pension is drawn down. 

I take your point re the voluntary act of closing down a business. This I'd imagine for 99% of poeple would happen at retirement time. In the main however companies close down because they have to. I think a little more support / fallback for self-employed people might provide an incentive for more people to start a business.


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## Firefly (22 Jun 2010)

Jim Davis said:


> I don't have to thread on egg shells when dealing with female colleagues and can decide to hire.
> 
> I don't get told what to do by someone less qualified and experienced than me and feel resentful for it and towards them because they're father is well connected.


 
Was becomming self-employed your choice  ?


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## Complainer (22 Jun 2010)

Firefly said:


> Regarding Jim's 2nd point - the tax advantages of old are largely closed off to the majority of self-employed people. The one area that remains is the increased pension payments that can be made. However, as less tax is payable now, additional tax will be payable when the pension is drawn down.


Some self-employed people are fairly clear on their ability to retain 75%-85% of income; see

http://www.askaboutmoney.com/showthread.php?t=134848
http://www.askaboutmoney.com/showthread.php?t=56970



Firefly said:


> I take your point re the voluntary act of closing down a business. This I'd imagine for 99% of poeple would happen at retirement time. In the main however companies close down because they have to. I think a little more support / fallback for self-employed people might provide an incentive for more people to start a business.



You might be right about the additional encouragement to start a business, and personally I wouldn't have a huge problem with making the benefit avavilable, but only where there is a level playing field. You can't expect this benefit, and to retain all the other benefits. And you'd have to address the issue of the person being able to 'trigger' the insured benefit.


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## Firefly (22 Jun 2010)

Complainer said:


> Some self-employed people are fairly clear on their ability to retain 75%-85% of income; see
> 
> http://www.askaboutmoney.com/showthread.php?t=134848
> http://www.askaboutmoney.com/showthread.php?t=56970
> ...


 

I really question gonk's numbers as have others. There are certainly deductable expenses, but these have to be incurred first. 

I'd agree with your 2nd point - I think there needs to be give and take here alright.


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## z107 (22 Jun 2010)

> Some self-employed people are fairly clear on their ability to retain 75%-85% of income; see


Now post a link to the thread that disproved that. It was only a few months ago, and I'm pretty sure you contributed to it.

To be clear, self employed people such as S class directors pay more in tax than PAYE employees. They do not get PAYE tax credit, and this can even effect their spouse (who also get to pay more tax)

There are no expenses that self employed people can claim that PAYE employees can not. Self employed also get to pay corporation tax, accountant's bills and other compliance costs.


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## Complainer (22 Jun 2010)

umop3p!sdn said:


> Now post a link to the thread that disproved that. It was only a few months ago, and I'm pretty sure you contributed to it.


Sure, would you like me to get you a coffee and polish your shoes then? I'm starting to see why you opted for self employment over being part of a team.

If you want to bring a thread into the debate, why don't you find it?



umop3p!sdn said:


> To be clear, self employed people such as S class directors pay more in  tax than PAYE employees. They do not get PAYE tax credit, and this can  even effect their spouse (who also get to pay more tax)
> 
> There are no expenses that self employed people can claim that PAYE  employees can not. Self employed also get to pay corporation tax,  accountant's bills and other compliance costs.


To be clear, PAYE employees don't generally get to claim portions of their home phone bill, their light/heat, their mobile phone bills, their newspaper, their home broadband, their books and magazines, the VAT on their diesel and their commercial vehicle, their home insurance, their digital camera etc etc against tax. PAYE employees don't get to decide how much of their income to take as income, and how much to take as dividends.


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## enoxy (22 Jun 2010)

Thanks Complainer for turning a lightish hearted thread into a point-scoring, petty, confrontational argument. Really great for the neutral reader...


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## Firefly (23 Jun 2010)

Complainer said:


> I'm starting to see why you opted for self employment over being part of a team.
> /QUOTE]
> 
> I don't understand - would you care to explain?


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## fobs (23 Jun 2010)

enoxy said:


> thanks complainer for turning a lightish hearted thread into a point-scoring, petty, confrontational argument. Really great for the neutral reader...


 
+1


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## Complainer (23 Jun 2010)

Firefly said:


> I don't understand - would you care to explain?


Probably not - don't want to get slapped by the mods again.


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## Purple (23 Jun 2010)

Complainer said:


> To be clear, PAYE employees don't generally get to claim portions of their home phone bill, their light/heat, their mobile phone bills, their newspaper, their home broadband, their books and magazines, the VAT on their diesel and their commercial vehicle, their home insurance, their digital camera etc etc against tax. PAYE employees don't get to decide how much of their income to take as income, and how much to take as dividends.



I’m a shareholder in a limited company and I have never claimed any of those things as expenses. We don’t own any commercial vehicles and while the company buys laptops for those that need them and provides mobile phones for those that need them since nobody works from home no home related expenses are ever deducted. 
Believe it or not holding the view that paying your taxes and not defrauding the exchequer is a moral imperative is not the exclusive reserve of Labour Party members working in the Public sector. Some of us self-employed private sector capitalist scum have values and ethics as well.


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## shnaek (23 Jun 2010)

Complainer said:


> Some self-employed people are fairly clear on their ability to retain 75%-85% of income; see
> http://www.askaboutmoney.com/showthread.php?t=134848
> http://www.askaboutmoney.com/showthread.php?t=56970


I don't know anyone who is retaining this amount of income as a self employed contractor. But I do know plenty people who are sitting around doing nothing and making a nice living out of out 22bn social welfare budget 
I just cannot fathom why we take money from those who work and give it to those who dont - and that includes the banks. Less tax, less government. It's the only way that makes sense when we are ruled by such an incompetent bunch.


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## Mpsox (23 Jun 2010)

shnaek said:


> I just cannot fathom why we take money from those who work and give it to those who dont - and that includes the banks. Less tax, less government. It's the only way that makes sense when we are ruled by such an incompetent bunch.


 
Do you mean those who don't work or those who can't work because they can't find a job.?


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## Complainer (23 Jun 2010)

shnaek said:


> I don't know anyone who is retaining this amount of income as a self employed contractor. But I do know plenty people who are sitting around doing nothing and making a nice living out of out 22bn social welfare budget
> I just cannot fathom why we take money from those who work and give it to those who dont - and that includes the banks. Less tax, less government. It's the only way that makes sense when we are ruled by such an incompetent bunch.


This post springs to mind;


> I was made redundant and had to claim the dole for 4 months. Listening to people harp on about how people who collect the dole are wasters and that they get too much money...made me so mad as I have worked since I was 15 years old!!!!!! (27 now) I will think twice before I ever judge or pass remark again.


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## missdaisy (23 Jun 2010)

Firstly I echo other poster's sentiments in thanking Complainer for being so argumentative. 

I myself am a PAYE worker and my partner is a self employed person (director of a limited company) and he has never claimed any of the items you have listed Complainer. He now works a full week and earns €220 per week, which is not much more that a social welfare allowance without any of the other perks (rent allowance, medical card etc).  If this income stops there will be no help from the government notwithstanding the taxes he has paid.  Yes I know he hasn't made same PRSI contribution to me but he didn't have a choice and he has paid a large amount of VAT, income tax and levies.  I do think that there should be more incentives for self-employed people in the event that a business fails.


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## Sunny (23 Jun 2010)

You can't steal pens from the stationary cupboard!


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## missdaisy (23 Jun 2010)

Or the odd very nice highlighter! Also have to reduce size of your writing - need to make savings in the stationary department, no more casually scrawling across that a4 notepad!


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## Sunny (23 Jun 2010)

missdaisy said:


> Or the odd very nice highlighter!


 
I never went that far!


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## shnaek (23 Jun 2010)

I agree with missdaisy (and Sunny  )
And I think dole level should be based on income, therefore those who have worked and are now unable to find work would be better looked after than those who have never worked. This is the system used in Germany (and other EU nations) and I think it has merit - and the poster you mentioned, Complainer, would be looked after under these circumstances. I have experienced redundancy myself on occassion, so I am not immune to the frustration that poster feels.


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## callybags (23 Jun 2010)

We used to have this system in the seventies and eighties. Hence the name "*Pay Related* Social Insurance".

As far as i can recall it worked on a sliding scale- you got a percentage of your salary, reducing over about 6 months.

I've no idea of the thinking behind changing it to the present system.


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## censuspro (23 Jun 2010)

missdaisy said:


> Firstly I echo other poster's sentiments in thanking Complainer for being so argumentative.
> 
> I myself am a PAYE worker and my partner is a self employed person (director of a limited company) and he has never claimed any of the items you have listed Complainer. He now works a full week and earns €220 per week, which is not much more that a social welfare allowance without any of the other perks (rent allowance, medical card etc). If this income stops there will be no help from the government notwithstanding the taxes he has paid. Yes I know he hasn't made same PRSI contribution to me but he didn't have a choice and he has paid a large amount of VAT, income tax and levies. I do think that there should be more incentives for self-employed people in the event that a business fails.


 
People often make the mistake by assuming that VAT is an expense or a tax paid out of business profits. VAT is a consumption tax that is charged onto the consumer. When you pay VAT over to revenue you are just paying over the VAT that you collected on behalf of revenue when you added 21% onto your sales price. It is really the consumer that bought your product or service who is incurring the cost of VAT.

If your husband hasn't been claiming legitimate business expenses then he has either been badly advised or hasn't been using an accountant.


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## missdaisy (23 Jun 2010)

Censuspro, I wasn't maintaining that the VAT was paid out of business rofits, but it is nonetheless being genereated by the business as they are charging VAT on services they are providing and creating money for the government in doing this. 

I also didn't say my partner wasn't claiming legitimate business expenses.  He does and he does have an accountant giving correct advice.  I said he didn't claim any of the things Complainer maintained all self-employed people claim - digital cameras, home broadband etc.


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## Ancutza (23 Jun 2010)

Oh dear! And I started this in the hope of raising a few smiles amongst those of us who, due to recent economic conditions, chose to (or were forced to) suffer the outrageous slings and arrows of working for thine self.

Can you not get banned around here anymore for being one of these?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Troll_(Internet)

Anyway a few nice ones in there so far! Really laughed at Callybags post.  So true!


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## Complainer (24 Jun 2010)

missdaisy said:


> Firstly I echo other poster's sentiments in thanking Complainer for being so argumentative.


As your Mammy told you, it takes two to argue.



Ancutza said:


> Can you not get banned around here anymore for being one of these?
> 
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Troll_(Internet)


If you have a problem with a post, click the red triangle.


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## fobs (24 Jun 2010)

From my husbands days as a paye worker and then self-employed it was definately the longer working day and the option to take annual leave easier when and employee to being self-employed! My husband had to give up his company due to ill-health so now craves the long hours he used to give out about!


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