# lack of clarity in school policies



## hwin1 (2 May 2009)

hi just want to get this off my chest. 

I got a call from my daughter's school principal to say two teachers had smelt alcohol on her, during school hours. They never spoke to her about this but called me AFTER she had gone home for the day. 

Eager to do the right thing I asked my daughter about it when she came home. I couldn't smell drink off her so to prove my point and save my daughter's reputation I had her do an alcohol test which came up negative. 

When I called the school next morning, I was informed that some girl was using stuff to clean her braces and this contained alcohol and this is where the smell came from, my daughter just happened to be there with another student, after the girl had been cleaning her teeth. 

Neither my daughter or me got an apology, but they were very quick to point the finger!

Any suggestions?


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## PaddyBloggit (2 May 2009)

*Re: wrong place,wrong time.*

Ask for an apology .... your daughter deserves it.


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## Padraigb (2 May 2009)

*Re: wrong place,wrong time.*

What is there to apologise for? They were concerned for your daughter's welfare. They communicated that concern to you. Your investigation and theirs established that the concern in this case was unfounded. 

Be glad that they are interested, and get down off your high horse.


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## hwin1 (2 May 2009)

*Re: wrong place,wrong time.*

Thanks  for that and I appreciate they have a duty of concern, but the embarrassment it caused both my daughter and I. Should the principal not have phoned me as soon as she found out the truth about what went on, which by the way she did as soon as she hung up the phone from me and called the other students mother, what happened to sorry for accusing you in the wrong but these things have to be looked into... what do we say at the disciplinary hearing she has set up for us early next week, which means my husband and  I have to take time off work.


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## allthedoyles (2 May 2009)

*Re: wrong place,wrong time.*

From my experience , you should believe the school's principal and be glad that an interest is being shown in the students welfare .

If its only alcohol is been suspected , then count your lucky stars


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## PaddyBloggit (2 May 2009)

*Re: wrong place,wrong time.*

Has the school an established policy on this?


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## hwin1 (2 May 2009)

*Re: wrong place,wrong time.*

don't you think an intelligent woman such as a school principal shouldn't have to be asked for an apology, thats just common decency to apologise when you are wrong no matter who you are or what position you hold. Thanks PaddyBloggit.


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## hwin1 (2 May 2009)

*Re: wrong place,wrong time.*

thanks allthedoyles but isn't it the duty of the principal to show concern for the students, thats what she is paid for so why should I be thankful?


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## hwin1 (2 May 2009)

*Re: wrong place,wrong time.*

paddybloggit, not sure about the policy on this kind of behaviour, but i'm sure its not tolerated and rightly so but what about the cases of students being blamed in the wrong? Is there a policy for this I will have to find out!!


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## notagardener (2 May 2009)

*Re: wrong place,wrong time.*

A lot of issues going on here.  Did the teachers at any stage approach your daughter.  Is there a policy within the school to deal with such issues.  It could be the case the teachers were having a chin wag in their canteen and both made the same observation and then decided to go to the principle.  The principle would have been very annoyed and followed protocol and contacted you with their observations.  This would lead to the question, if your daughter was under the influence - what if something happened on her way home, especially if the teachers had observed this and done nothing at the time.  A lot of ifs and buts.  As a parent myself, I certainly can understand your anger.  I'd most definately would demand a meeting with the principle and the two teachers involved to discuss this issue in full.


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## Padraigb (2 May 2009)

*Re: wrong place,wrong time.*

I don't see why anybody should be embarrassed. I suspect that you do not see the relationship between school and family in the same way as the school principal does -- as a collaboration to achieve the best for your daughter, not as an adversarial "them and us" situation.

Yes, it might have been better if the principal had called you again to say that an explanation had been given, but there might have been other important business to be dealt with, or the principal might not have been sure that it was a valid explanation, and wanted you to check things out with your daughter.

What disciplinary hearing?


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## Padraigb (2 May 2009)

*Re: wrong place,wrong time.*



hwin1 said:


> ... what about the cases of students being blamed in the wrong?...



Why do you see it as blame? Can you not see it as concern for your daughter's well-being? 

From what you have told us, it seems that the only person that the school communicated with was you. Nobody made an issue of it in the school, or confronted your daughter with accusations. That looks to me like a good way to deal with such a matter.


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## hwin1 (2 May 2009)

*Re: wrong place,wrong time.*

my daughter and I have to attend a disciplinary hearing in the school and my husband has said he will attend with me, I think it is a disgraceful waste of time as the principal seems happy enough with the explanation about the teeth cleaning story. Yes I understand she had other issues, she thanked me for following it up but still no apology.I don't see it as a them and us situation, I am just annoyed about the way the whole situation was handled.


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## hwin1 (2 May 2009)

*Re: wrong place,wrong time.*

my daughter was embarassed when I had to confront her on such an issue and then when she had to take the test, she was crying.


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## allthedoyles (2 May 2009)

*Re: wrong place,wrong time.*



hwin1 said:


> my daughter was embarassed when I had to confront her on such an issue and then when she had to take the test, she was crying.


 
Dont worry about the embarrassment issue , as this can be a natural reaction, ............

Depending on how many years your daughter has left in this school , will determine your approach and sensitivity in this case.

If your daughter wishes to do Transition year , then its possible that the Principal may not allow this .

I believe you are best to accept this as a 'once off ' and move on .


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## hwin1 (2 May 2009)

*Re: wrong place,wrong time.*

no thankfully she has transition year over her and I can't see why they wouldn't let her do it on one case of mistaken misbehaviour, through no fault of her own, but anyway, one of the teachers that made the accusation to the principal will be present at the meeting, should I ask for the second one to be there and if not, why? any suggestions?


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## Padraigb (2 May 2009)

*Re: wrong place,wrong time.*

I don't see the point of a disciplinary hearing if the principal was happy with the teeth cleaning story; something doesn't add up here. Forget about apologies and pounds of flesh; ask the principal why she wants a disciplinary hearing. If there isn't some disciplinary issue, then there should be no hearing.

I am sorry that your daughter was upset. But what was the principal to do when she had a concern about her? Might it be that your worries about things brought on your daughter's tears?


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## becky (2 May 2009)

*Re: wrong place,wrong time.*

I have no doubt that an apology will be forthcoming following this hearing and suspect that the reason it hasn't been forthcoming up to now is because of this hearing.

I'm not sure why the hearing is going ahead but I can only suppose there is nothing in the policy to call off a hearing - much like a court case.


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## allthedoyles (2 May 2009)

*Re: wrong place,wrong time.*

Right, This seems like a genuine case of mistaken behaviour , through no fault of her own , however, I believe you need to approach this believing your teachers , rather than your daughter are right , and listen to what the teachers have to say.

If you find that you are 100 % correct and school is wrong , then act accordingly


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## Padraigb (2 May 2009)

*Re: wrong place,wrong time.*



becky said:


> ... I'm not sure why the hearing is going ahead but I can only suppose there is nothing in the policy to call off a hearing - much like a court case.



Schools don't have to be as inflexible as the courts. If their policy is like that, then the policy should be changed. [Indeed, even in the courts, a _nolle prosequi_ can be entered, which is a way of dropping a charge.]


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## hwin1 (2 May 2009)

*Re: wrong place,wrong time.*

no padraigB I didn't give her a hard time I felt to be accused in the wrong is hard enough, I don't know why the hearing is going ahead.I will listen to what the teachers have to say, I understand it is no mean feat to tend to over 1000 students everyday and try and keep an eye on them all, cunning as they might THINK they are,but if she was happy enough with the result of her investigation I don't see why we all have to be hauled off to the school, its crazy!!Maybe Becky is right, maybe they will have to reconsider their policies/or lack of in such cases. By the way, allthedoyles, I know the school is 100% wrong as there was no alcohol in my daughter's system.


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## ophelia (2 May 2009)

*Re: wrong place,wrong time.*

Yes, the teachers were right to call you up and inform you of their fears. Yes, you and your daughter are right to expect an apology.  Hard to know why you all have to attend a disciplinary meeting - maybe the girls reacted badly or something when the teacher said she was suspicious of them. My one concern is that your daughters name could have been blemished if you did not have the presence of mind to have an alcohol test done - well done! Go to the meeting and see what they have to say, hold your tongue until they have said their bit and if no apology is forthcoming albeit a guarded apology then CALMLY voice your opinion; whatever you do, don't get angry, remain stoic.


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## mathepac (2 May 2009)

*Re: wrong place,wrong time.*



allthedoyles said:


> ... If its only alcohol is been suspected , then count your lucky stars


I'm not sure what that means. Perhaps you mean that alcohol is harmless, perhaps you don't understand how seriuos a drug it is and the consequences for the country and young people.


The single most damaging drug available in the country is alcohol
The most available drug in this country is alcohol
The drug most likely to be abused by young adults is alcohol
The drugs that young adults are most likely to be exposed to in the home are alcohol & tobacco
The drug that young adults are most likely to see their parents / peers under the influence of is alcohol
The only drugs that young adults will see openly on sale in shops / supermarkets are alcohol and tobacco
The drug responsible for most lost work and school-days in this country is alcohol
The drug that causes most deaths in this country is alcohol (a factor in 30 - 35% of road fatalities)
The drug responsible for consuming massive amounts of Garda, A&E and other emergency services time is alcohol
Alcohol is a factor in 40% of assaults


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## Padraigb (2 May 2009)

*Re: wrong place,wrong time.*



ophelia said:


> Yes, the teachers were right to call you up and inform you of their fears. Yes, you and your daughter are right to expect an apology...



That's the very thing that has been bugging me about hwin1's position: the belief that the principal owes an apology for telling a parent of her concern about a student's welfare.


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## hwin1 (2 May 2009)

thank you everybody for your comments, advice and support, it is much appreciated. Nobody approached my daughter at all, the principal just called me and basically said, '' two teachers have reported to me that there is a smell of alcohol off your daughter, we are very concerned'', when I asked how they had come to suspect this she said, I am not discussing this with you any further, have a chat with your daughter when she gets home!''This was the thing that annoyed me the most. I will attend the meeting and give you all an update next week, thank you once again for your support.


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## Concert (2 May 2009)

Doen't look like there was much diplomacy on the teachers part.  I would definately seek an apology.  best of luck.


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## skingtile (2 May 2009)

hi hwin1, you really seem upset over this, and i can relate to that,but when you go to the meeting i think perhaps you might consider that the teachers were acting out of concern for your daughter, you were informed, i think it is a far greater tradegy when persons' of authority dont bother , walk away,pretend they didnt see and so dont have to follow up. from what i can gather they did not actually accuse her of having drank alcohol, only of a smell, Teachers often have certain guidelines as to what they can say and what they can apologise for, for litigation reasons. At the end of the day i would grateful that teachers do take the time


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## television (2 May 2009)

*Re: wrong place,wrong time.*



hwin1 said:


> Thanks for that and I appreciate they have a duty of concern, but the embarrassment it caused both my daughter and I. Should the principal not have phoned me as soon as she found out the truth about what went on, which by the way she did as soon as she hung up the phone from me and called the other students mother, what happened to sorry for accusing you in the wrong but these things have to be looked into... what do we say at the disciplinary hearing she has set up for us early next week, which means my husband and I have to take time off work.


 
Why is there a disiplinary hearing if it has been established that it was braces cleaning fluid that was causing the smell? You seem to be looking to be insulted. The school was concerned about you daughter as is been said and acted accordingly. Thank them for thier concern and move on. Stop trying to make a "joe duffyesque" issue of this. Why do you think this is a them against us issue, its not, do you seriously think the principal is giving you or this a second thought or is trying to personally bug you?


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## television (2 May 2009)

flahers2 said:


> Doen't look like there was much diplomacy on the teachers part. I would definately seek an apology. best of luck.


 
You seem to be stiring it up here.


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## babsie00 (2 May 2009)

In my opinion you are without doubt entitled to an apology!!the teachers/principal were doing their job in letting you know their concerns but those concerns were found to be wrong and it is just common courtesy to apologize for the mistake and also for the worry they would have caused!

I would also be of the opinion that if the principal was made aware of the teachers concerns early that day or even that afternoon he/she should have called immediately and should not have waited until the end of the school day! what would have happened if your daughter had been drinking and had an accident on her way home!!

If as you say the principal made investigations and found out what really happened and it was acceptable I do not understand what the discipline hearing is all about! If there was no crime committed what is your daughter being disciplined for??


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## television (2 May 2009)

*Re: wrong place,wrong time.*



jaybird said:


> They aren't owed an apology for showing genuine concern, obviously. However if you tell a childs mother you believe they have been drinking and you are found to be wrong, its common decency to give a quick apology and acknowledge the mistake, the same as you would to an adult. Children do have feelings, it was embarassing and hurtful for the child involved, even if the intentions are good.


 
WHat are they goingt o aplogise for?? They are not accusing somneone of murder or shoplifting but simply informing a parent of an observation. IN another curcumstance maybe this infromation could be useful to a parent for example a kid might have an early drinking problem or be in with the wrong kids etc, it gives the parent the heads up.


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## television (2 May 2009)

*Re: wrong place,wrong time.*



jaybird said:


> you are found to be wrong, its common decency to give a quick apology and acknowledge the mistake, the same as you would to an adult. Children do have feelings, it was embarassing and hurtful for the child involved, even if the intentions are good.


 
It is not a right or wrong issue or a them against us issue it simply a principle voicing a concern.  The principal has done nothing wrong and a hell of a lot right here.


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## television (2 May 2009)

*Re: wrong place,wrong time.*



Padraigb said:


> That's the very thing that has been bugging me about hwin1's position: the belief that the principal owes an apology for telling a parent of her concern about a student's welfare.


 
Very true Padraig.


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## television (2 May 2009)

*Re: wrong place,wrong time.*



mathepac said:


> I'm not sure what that means. Perhaps you mean that alcohol is harmless, perhaps you don't understand how seriuos a drug it is and the consequences for the country and young people.
> 
> 
> The single most damaging drug available in the country is alcohol
> ...


 
Excellent post.


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## babsie00 (2 May 2009)

it was not right to wait until the end of the school day after the girl had gone home to notify her parent that should have been done immediately!


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## babsie00 (2 May 2009)

the parent is not looking for an apology from the principal for letting her know she is looking for a simple, sorry about the confusion but we had to make sure you were informed, it courtesy!


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## television (2 May 2009)

babsie00 said:


> it was not right to wait until the end of the school day after the girl had gone home to notify her parent that should have been done immediately!


 
Could have been hunderds of reasons for this.

1. they might have assessed the daughters state and decided she was not drunk but was just smelling of drink.

On a broader point.  We are getting one side of this story from a very hurt parent.  I would like to hear all of the story from all points of view. Which is impossible of course.


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## television (2 May 2009)

babsie00 said:


> the parent is not looking for an apology from the principal for letting her know she is looking for a simple, sorry about the confusion but we had to make sure you were informed, it courtesy!


 


> Neither my daughter or me got an apology, but they were very quick to point the finger!


 
She is looking for an apology and accusing the principal of "pointing the finger".  I suspect her attitude towards the principal is one of defensive biligerence.


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## hwin1 (3 May 2009)

hi trelevision, you have a lot to say, and some very valid points. However, how would you feel if it were your daughter?None of us were angels in school, lets face it, but it was the manner in which the issue was dealt with that got my goat. And why wouldn't I be defensive, she's my daughter. If I can't stand up fo her, who can?


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## television (3 May 2009)

hwin1 said:


> hi trelevision, you have a lot to say, and some very valid points. However, how would you feel if it were your daughter?None of us were angels in school, lets face it, but it was the manner in which the issue was dealt with that got my goat. And why wouldn't I be defensive, she's my daughter. If I can't stand up fo her, who can?


 
Why do you see this as "standing up for your daughter"? Why not just explain to her that the school is concerned about her and she should not get overly upset about the whole thing.  It seems to me your very easily offended and very defencive. Again however in this situation we are getting one point of view only i suspect the principal may intrepret this issue completly differently.


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## S.L.F (3 May 2009)

Hi hwin1

I don't see why the school should be saying sorry for something like this.

They have a care of duty to your daughter and told you what was on their minds, is this wrong?

Would you have preferred if they said nothing at all?

Sure maybe the manner in which it was told could have used some work but at the end of the day life goes on and there are far worse things that could have happened.

My advice to you would be put it in the past and let it go.


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## hwin1 (3 May 2009)

thanks S.L.F. I will see what comes of the meeting and hopefully put it behind us then, I am not disputing the fact that the teachers had to tell me, why didn't they call the girls and ask their side there and then? Surely my daughter has attended the school for 5 years now and they should know that would be totally out of character for her,to take alcohol on the premises is a very serious offence but they didn't call me until after she had left the building. If they were that concerned about the consumption of alcohol, why didn't they call me to collect her? Do you get my point?


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## Padraigb (3 May 2009)

So the school was overreacting and under-reacting at the same time!


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## PaddyBloggit (3 May 2009)

Schools are required to have a  'Substance Abuse Policy' .... if there's one in place then reporting and disciplinary procedures etc. should be outlined in it.


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## S.L.F (3 May 2009)

hwin1 said:


> thanks S.L.F. I will see what comes of the meeting and hopefully put it behind us then, I am not disputing the fact that the teachers had to tell me, why didn't they call the girls and ask their side there and then? Surely my daughter has attended the school for 5 years now and they should know that would be totally out of character for her,to take alcohol on the premises is a very serious offence but they didn't call me until after she had left the building. If they were that concerned about the consumption of alcohol, why didn't they call me to collect her? Do you get my point?


 
I do understand what you are asking but does it really matter when it was the point is the girls are ok nobody was hurt.

I don't doubt the girls feelings are hurt but the reality is everybody is ok.

It is important to stick up for your daughter but it is also wise to pick the moments when you do this.

I don't believe this is one!


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## brodiebabe (3 May 2009)

hwin1 said:


> If they were that concerned about the consumption of alcohol, why didn't they call me to collect her? Do you get my point?


 

So you are cross with them because you feel they under reacted?

Do you want an apology because they did not ring you straight away?


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## ophelia (3 May 2009)

I think what might be worrying hwin1 in this affair is the prospect of 'a disciplinary meeting' - Why is the principal having a disciplinary meeting where there has been no breach of discipline as far as we know? Is there something else that the principal wants to say? Does he/she have some reservations on the teeth brace cleaning fluid? Did you keep the written printout of the alcohol test hwin1? God, I'm beginning to sound like Inspector Morse?


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## WarrenBuffet (4 May 2009)

I have two close friends - a husband and wife - one was a secondary school principal of a large school, another a secondary school teacher. 

On more than one occasion he has told me stories of parents (without naming names obviously) who came into the school on the war path looking for apologies for perceived slights against their child. Fair enough if the situation deserved it but it really pi$$ed him off if it didnt. 

I am pretty confident hwin that your situation doesnt merit the apology you seem to be looking for and in my opinion you would be best to let the whole thing go and be thankful that your daughter wasnt actually drinking and also thanking the school for their vigilance. Too many teachers just walk on by. 

Also if you do get your apology, (which they will probably give for the sake of diplomacy), remember that really it is just to get rid of you and your moral indignation and get on with the important job of looking after the running of one of the biggest schools in ireland (did you say 1000 students?!!?)

Finally this disciplinary meeting - could it be that your little angel actually might be up to something? Or could her friend actually have been drinking alcohol and maybe the teachers are trying to let ye know in a confidential manner?

Dont be so sensitive, the teachers obviously are looking out for your child, they are on your side and they are dealing with numerous other issues like this every day. Demanding an apology for an honest mistake will do you or your daughter no favours in the long run. 

Do you ask for an apology every time someone makes an honest mistake at work???? I doubt it


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## television (4 May 2009)

WarrenBuffet said:


> I have two close friends - a husband and wife - one was a secondary school principal of a large school, another a secondary school teacher.
> 
> On more than one occasion he has told me stories of parents (without naming names obviously) who came into the school on the war path looking for apologies for perceived slights against their child. Fair enough if the situation deserved it but it really pi$$ed him off if it didnt.
> 
> ...


 
you may have got it wrong when it came to Irish banking shares, but your spot on here Warren!


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## hwin1 (4 May 2009)

nobody seems to be getting exactly what I mean, I am not DEMANDING an apology, I do sympathise with the teachers, I don't have any experience of teachers turning their backs, the school has gone over and beyond to help my daughters in the past( my other daughter attended the same school). What I am trying to say is the manner in which it was put to me, I have no doubt they will apologise at the meeting, even if it is only to get rid of me.I never ask for apologies, out of common decency they should be given.I know there is no TEENAGE ANGELS too!!


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## Complainer (4 May 2009)

WarrenBuffet said:


> Finally this disciplinary meeting - could it be that your little angel actually might be up to something? Or could her friend actually have been drinking alcohol and maybe the teachers are trying to let ye know in a confidential manner?


If the little angel has been up to something, do you think it is unreasonable to expect some explanation of this from the school BEFORE being called to a meeting?


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## Padraigb (4 May 2009)

Complainer said:


> If the little angel has been up to something, do you think it is unreasonable to expect some explanation of this from the school BEFORE being called to a meeting?



It's a very reasonable requirement, and being in the company of somebody who smelt of alcohol does not seem like a basis for invoking disciplinary procedures.

Perhaps there is something that hwin1, in a state of anger or anxiety, missed out on hearing, or failed to communicate to us here.


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## hwin1 (5 May 2009)

thanks lads, the meeting goes ahead in the morning and has to be with the disciplinary committee as this is the category the issue falls under. However it is seen as a very serious allegation and has to be noted, the principal is happy enough with the confirmation of the use of the fluid, my daughter and another student were in the locker room getting changed for P E just after the girl had been using it and two teachers were going by on their way to lunch and just made an assumption. They never approached the girls, just went to the principal.Why are they allowed do this, I will find out in the morning.


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## S.L.F (5 May 2009)

hwin1 said:


> They never approached the girls, just went to the principal.Why are they allowed do this, I will find out in the morning.


 
Your daughter is a child and you and your husband are legal guardians of her, it is only right and proper that they should approach you.

Whether or not they should have approached the girls I can't say but I can say they should have approached you.


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## hwin1 (5 May 2009)

surely if you thought a kid had done something wrong you would ask them about it and then make a decision, not an assumption. I don't question they should have come to me.


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## putsch (5 May 2009)

From reading the thread it seems like the school is on a hiding to nothing. If they had approached the girls I think lots of people would object and say it should have come instead directly to the parents - no win.


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## television (5 May 2009)

hwin1 said:


> thanks lads, the meeting goes ahead in the morning and has to be with the disciplinary committee as this is the category the issue falls under. However it is seen as a very serious allegation and has to be noted, the principal is happy enough with the confirmation of the use of the fluid, my daughter and another student were in the locker room getting changed for P E just after the girl had been using it and two teachers were going by on their way to lunch and just made an assumption. They never approached the girls, just went to the principal.Why are they allowed do this, I will find out in the morning.


 

I seriously doubt, no in fact I am 100% sure that if the principal was okay with the fluid story this would go to a "disciplinary committee meeting". There is something more to this story. If there was not the principal would be happy for it, and I suspect you to go away.


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## WarrenBuffet (6 May 2009)

hwin1 said:


> nobody seems to be getting exactly what I mean, I am not DEMANDING an apology, I do sympathise with the teachers, I don't have any experience of teachers turning their backs, the school has gone over and beyond to help my daughters in the past( my other daughter attended the same school). What I am trying to say is the manner in which it was put to me, I have no doubt they will apologise at the meeting, even if it is only to get rid of me.I never ask for apologies, out of common decency they should be given.I know there is no TEENAGE ANGELS too!!


 
You miss my point - i think you or your daughter don't deserve an apology, full stop. They made an honest mistake but at all times were looking out for your childs welfare. What on earth have they done wrong? What have they to apologise for?

And agree with television's point - there could be more to this than you think. 

I will be interested to hear your feedback on the disciplinary meeting although to be honest i will take your version of the events with a pinch of salt......you havent exactly shown yourself to be reasonable. Would love to hear a report of the entire incident from the teachers / principal viewpoint.


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## Concert (6 May 2009)

Last remark a bit unreasonable.  If it was me I would forget about it but this lady is obviously very upset so give her a chance.


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## television (6 May 2009)

flahers2 said:


> Last remark a bit unreasonable. If it was me I would forget about it but this lady is obviously very upset so give her a chance.


 
Its parents like the poster that make running a school a complete nightmare.


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## hwin1 (7 May 2009)

good morning television, I think you are way out of order to make a remark like that, the meeting went well, there were other issues to be dealt with at the meeting, she had four detentions for being late, not a crime but they have a policy on this which is quite clear, she is most likely going to get a day suspension. Principal stayed for 5 minutes, explained why the meeting was called, apologised to my daughter and I and left to attend another meeting. the other teachers finished the meeting outlining the other problem. We all left happy. Thank you everybody for your time and effort. Thank you Flahers 2 for your support.


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## ophelia (7 May 2009)

Thanks for letting us know how things went hwin, Much ado about nothing then, or very little!  It can be upsetting though, but generally I find schools/teachers are very fair and sort things out without too much pain.
You can relax now and have a nice day.


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## hwin1 (7 May 2009)

yes the problem seems quite small now but it was a big thing on Friday, but you people seem to have made it clearer, Sorry if anyone thought I was cheeky or unreasonable, I didn't mean to be, but sometimes when feelings run high, "you can't see the wood for the trees" so to speak. Thanks Ophelia and all you others who contributed your opinion, it helped and meant a lot.


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## Padraigb (8 May 2009)

We are reminded by this thread (and we often need to be reminded) that we should be careful about rushing to judgement.

hwin1 may have misinterpreted the situation in some respects, particularly about the reason for the disciplinary hearing -- but she is a mother who was worried about her daughter. I do not intend any offence in saying that she came across in my eyes as a lioness defending her cub.

Thanks for coming back with the update, hwin1. Now that the boat is out of stormy waters, I wish you and your daughter plain sailing.


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## hwin1 (8 May 2009)

that was very nice to say, thank you Padraigb, you lot here don't pull any punches as I have seen from reading other threads too, people need that to gain a different perspective, I didn't realise I came accross that strongly, I know where I will come for advice again for deffo. Thanks again, by the way it was my first time to ever have something like this happen to me , as if you couldn't tell ha ha!! Thanks again.


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