# Social Welfare Abuse



## ChrisKelly (18 Dec 2016)

I'm aware of a person who has been working  cash in hand for several years whilst claiming Job Seekers. He was moved to Back to Work allowance, which gets paid directly into his bank account and for the past 2 years has worked  abroad earning nearly €4K a month. He is back and forth every couple of weeks. 

He has opened a separate bank account that social welfare are not aware of, so he can get away with this at the moment. 

He is also just in the process of claiming rent allowance to, even though he shouldn't. To add insult to injury, he is renting out a room in the house and current tenant paying more than half the rent. Obviously social welfare are not aware of this at all.

This is clearly abusing a system meant to help people in dire straights. I have no issue with people who deserve social welfare, or even people doing the odd nixer to get buy. This guy is taking it to a whole new level. 

So many different welfare frauds are being committed here?

Working and claiming. 
Falsified documents.
Subletting a room and claiming full rent allowance. 

Who do I report this to?


----------



## moneybox (18 Dec 2016)

https://www.welfare.ie/en/Pages/Report-Suspected-Social-Welfare-Fraud-contact.aspx


----------



## Monbretia (18 Dec 2016)

Be sure of your facts, the back to work allowance is gone since 2012.  Anyway social welfare should investigate if you report.


----------



## noproblem (18 Dec 2016)

With that information you seem to know the person awfully well indeed. What will happen if you have to reveal who you are, is that a problem for you?


----------



## moneybox (18 Dec 2016)

noproblem said:


> With that information you seem to know the person awfully well indeed. What will happen if you have to reveal who you are, is that a problem for you?



Is it not anonymous?


----------



## noproblem (18 Dec 2016)

These things, like confidential goverment documents and the likes, have a way of revealing themselves.


----------



## twofor1 (18 Dec 2016)

But they make it very clear that they accept reports of suspected fraud anonymously.

If the Department of Social Protection don’t know who reported the suspected fraud, the only thing that could ever be revealed like confidential government documents and the like, is it was an anonymous report.


----------



## Easeler (18 Dec 2016)

OP seems to be fairly sure fraud is been committed so should report this. social protection is there for people that really need it


----------



## moneybox (18 Dec 2016)

Dont social protection monitor people who are flying in and out of the country while on social welfare?


----------



## jim (19 Dec 2016)

noproblem said:


> These things, like confidential goverment documents and the likes, have a way of revealing themselves.



This is a silly statement and is going off topic. Its either anonymous or it isn't. The OP has a straight forward question and the answer is straight forward - this should be reported immediately and let the powers that be investigate. Moneybox posted the link above.


----------



## fun (19 Dec 2016)

Perhaps you should change your username OP incase he logs on here! He should be reported in any case.


----------



## Bronte (20 Dec 2016)

moneybox said:


> Dont social protection monitor people who are flying in and out of the country while on social welfare?



How on earth would they be able to do that?


----------



## Bronte (20 Dec 2016)

ChrisKelly said:


> He is also just in the process of claiming rent allowance to, even though he shouldn't. To add insult to injury, he is renting out a room in the house and current tenant paying more than half the rent. Obviously social welfare are not aware of this at all.



This bit I don't understand.  How is he renting a room to a tenant?  Whose room is it?


----------



## T McGibney (20 Dec 2016)

Monbretia said:


> Be sure of your facts, the back to work allowance is gone since 2012.



Be sure of your facts, it's not gone.


----------



## thedaddyman (20 Dec 2016)

Bronte said:


> How on earth would they be able to do that?



They are starting to use a lot more data analytics to catch fraudsters. For example Facial Recognition software is now quite common and the Dept of Social Protection have admitted in the past that they trawl social media such as Facebook as part of any investigation into an allegation. I'm not sure if they are proactively investigating though or simply responding to an allegation.


----------



## gipimann (20 Dec 2016)

Back to Work Allowance was closed to new employees from 1st May 2009.
Back to Work Enterprise Allowance, for persons in self-employment, continues.

http://www.welfare.ie/en/Pages/Back-to-Work-Allowance-Employees.aspx

Anonymous reports received by the Department may trigger a review of a person's claim.  Payments will not cease solely on foot of an anonymous report. 

http://www.welfare.ie/en/Pages/Anonymous-Reports.aspx


----------



## moneybox (20 Dec 2016)

Bronte said:


> How on earth would they be able to do that?




 Easy once they were given the power


----------



## Gerry Canning (20 Dec 2016)

Chris,
On what you report , this boyo is a real beaut !

I hope you have reported him by now.


----------



## The Edge (27 Dec 2016)

moneybox said:


> Dont social protection monitor people who are flying in and out of the country while on social welfare?



Does the social welfare monitor massively wealthy international money launderers that regularly fly in to our airports? 

I'm just curious. 

I seek merely information.


----------



## allencat3 (28 Dec 2016)

Minister Leo Vardarer, wake up! why reduce minimum of rent to €10 per week by those on social welfare for social housing, while those paying PRSI contributions for past 45 years and paying mortgage for over 20 years and paying taxes and water charges etc and simultaneously having dual sensory disabilities since birth yet just retired on ill-health grounds receive €45 per week with two years yet to go before receiving state contributory pension? What's the point of working for 45 years and paying taxes and PRSI contribs while some youngsters on social welfare spend their sw money on cigarettes and smartphones with Free travel passes on lanyards around their necks whom I observed getting onto buses while paying my bus fare home using my Lesp card costing me €153 per month?


----------



## Leper (28 Dec 2016)

OK, we're brave and we report social welfare fraud to the Dept of Social Protection and we are informed we have anonymity.  Does this mean that the alleged fraudster will under no circumstances be given the name of the person who reported him?

But, then there is Freedom-of-Information.  I don't see how the name of those reporting can be hidden from the alleged fraudster or his solicitor.


----------



## Jon Stark (28 Dec 2016)

Leper said:


> OK, we're brave and we report social welfare fraud to the Dept of Social Protection and we are informed we have anonymity.  Does this mean that the alleged fraudster will under no circumstances be given the name of the person who reported him?
> 
> But, then there is Freedom-of-Information.  I don't see how the name of those reporting can be hidden from the alleged fraudster or his solicitor.



Then you don't understand how FOI legislation works, as such information obtained in confidence is exempt.

And just to be clear, allegations made in confidence are not evidence of any wrongdoing; government departments like Welfare and Revenue are well used to receiving erroneous or malicious tip-offs. While all such reports need to be considered, it's up to the relevant body to establish whether there's actually evidence of what's alleged.


----------



## twofor1 (29 Dec 2016)

Leper said:


> I am not confident that Freedom of Information will protect Jon's anonymity etc from the family's solicitors and indeed the family themselves.



But Jon Snow can give all this information anonymously, the DSP will investigate, and on the basis of that investigation will withdraw benefit, prosecute, or do nothing at all if the complaint cannot be substantiated.

With the information Jon has supplied, if it is correct, the DSP investigation team in this case anyway, should easily establish that this family is making fraudulent claims and take whatever action necessary.

The DSP could never reveal, even under FOI or otherwise who made the initial complaint, if they do not know themselves who made the initial complaint.


----------



## moneybox (29 Dec 2016)

Jon Stark said:


> ... if you want joe public to be willing to tip you off about people scamming the system, you don't punish those who do come forward with information, by trying to compel them to go into evidence.



Anonymous wdlfare fraud tip offs up by 60% this year with most of it reported through Dept website.  People seem confident enough of their confidentiality in doing so.

http://www.irishtimes.com/news/politics/anonymous-welfare-fraud-tip-offs-up-by-over-60-1.2805129


----------



## moneybox (30 Dec 2016)

Leper - if you prefer not, you don't even have to give your name or contact details.  You basically click on the link above, type in your concerns with as much detail as possible and be off on your merry way.

So if you just a random stranger filling in an anonymous form on the internet how can you be identified.


----------



## PaddyBloggit (30 Dec 2016)

moneybox said:


> So if you just a random stranger filling in an anonymous form on the internet how can you be identified.



Nobody's fully anonymous on the Internet moneybox. Your IP address will tell a lot about you.

Still, If I was aware on SW fraud, I wouldn't hesitate to report it.


----------



## Gordon Gekko (30 Dec 2016)

Mother of God...what a thread.

Then go to an Internet Cafe.

And if you're worried about NSA video surveillance, wear a disguise.


----------



## Brendan Burgess (5 Jan 2017)

I have removed all the personalised posts and the responses to them. 

You are wasting your time making or responding to personalised attacks.  

Brendan


----------

