# Bankruptcy and what will be taken from my home



## dubliner (1 Jun 2013)

Hello, does anybody know what the official assignee takes from your home in cases of bankruptcy? I am thinking of going for bankruptcy and have no assets, no car, property etc. I am on social welfare and have no other option but to go for the bankruptcy for unsecured debts. Does the official assignee take items such as the television, microwave, treadmill, books, ordinary things like that, is the home stripped of belongings except for beds, chairs and cooker/fridge and washing machine?

Can personal belongings be taken that are owned by other family members (adult daughter) for instance a laptop, mobile phone?

I know it is 650 or 750 to start off the proceedings, is there much more cost in the procedure? I am hearing varying amounts up to 10 thousand!


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## Cantalia (1 Jun 2013)

Gift everything to someone before you start, maybe they can gift it back later !


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## Luternau (1 Jun 2013)

They would have no interest in everyday items that are considered normal day to day items. If you had expensive jewelery (worth thousands) they would look for that (recent NAMA case wit a developers wifes ring).
If the items belong to someone else that is not subject to the Bankruptcy they cannot take them. However valuable assets are transferred to others to put them out of reach of the official receiver, the transfers can be reveresed. If you have no valuable assets, this is not really relevant.
Are you getting financial advice? Going bankrupt is a huge decision. Perhaps you should post full details of your circumstances (income/outgoings/debts/arrears/intererst rates etc) here to see what the best option is?


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## Cantalia (1 Jun 2013)

For goodness sake, the man is talking about his tv and microwave!


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## Luternau (1 Jun 2013)

Cantalia said:


> For goodness sake, the man is talking about his tv and microwave!



How do you know that for sure? You would be amazed at what people do not consider as an asset!

By the way, you are recomending transferring assets/belongings prior to declaring bankrupcy, which is not necessarily a good idea!


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## dubliner (1 Jun 2013)

Thanks for the replies, I posted here before with the details, made up a new user name, because I couldn't remember my old one. I have found it now and will paste it in here, It wont allow me to post the link until I have 15 posts.  This is what I posted last year:


I owe 27,000 in debt, I was managing ok with repayments but had to leave  my job two years ago to become my mothers carer. Up until then, no  arrears. Shortly after, they built up very quickly.

Through help with mabs, I now pay €35 weekly to the debts. As I receive  204 per week on carers allowance, the repayment is small enough but I am  genuinely starting to struggle again, just little things, a pair of  shoes last winter as my boots were letting in, underwear, a winter  jacket/coat, or something needed for my home, such as the bathroom tap  broke, I couldn't pay for it to be fixed, as every penny is calculated  to the last cent with mabs, there was nothing to pay a plumber. 

I know 35 seems nothing to people paying huge amounts on mortgages and  families with larger bills, but it's a lot to me from 204 weekly.

Basically, I don't really understand the debt insolvency thing, I don't  have a car, property or any assets.  At the rate of paying 35 per week,  it will be a long time before the debt is completely gone.  I don't  drink, don't smoke, don't socialise whatsoever. I can't cut back anymore  than I have. So after all that explaining, does anyone know if I can  apply when it comes into effect?

Nearly forgot, no dependents anymore and I am single if any of that matters

__________________________________________________________________
At this stage, it is not much different in amount. I was told by MABS (who have helped me for a few years and are a great help) that I can apply for DSA. I have my son here who is on jobseekers, 188 per week. I said daughter up above as a for instance. My problem is that I have been paying this amount of €35pr week off all debts for several years now, I can't face another five years of that, there is nothing over each week. In the income guidelines it seems that I am below this standard,  my budget sheet doesn't include anything other than basics. it is rent, esb, gas, tele, food, phone, mobile 20 per month as if I am outside, my mother needs to contact me and vice versa.

I spoke to a few people offering their services, each of them have said it would be best going for bankruptcy as I am living below the guidelines. I have already been doing it for years, I am not sure but I think I started with MABS in 09, I would have to check that, that's 4years done, another 5 ahead of me in DSA. As I stated, my son is here, one of the people I spoke to said, he would not be included in my income, but when I looked on the income guideline on ISI, it has a grid that deals with two adults. My son does not halve the expenses with me, I dont expect him too, he is not my husband, he does give me money towards the rent, gets his own food etc

Regards jewellery, I don't own any at all. The most expensive item I have here is a tele (plasma) I bought in 2005. I think they are around €1500 new in the shops now. I am worried about simple things like kitchen utensils, toaster, microwave, sandwich maker, upstairs, the wardrobes, presses etc.
It is the thought of another 5years of the same day in day out, knowing there is never going to be anything left each week for another 5years is too much, I have been doing it for years already, I am worn out now, I honestly cant do it anymore. It would be great if past history of payments was included in the insolvency plan, I would be nearly at the five year level, but I think it starts from scratch.


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## munchy (1 Jun 2013)

I would recommend you contact frost.ie who do not charge any fees and will organise the DSA or insolvency on your behalf. I found them very good to deal with.


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## dubliner (1 Jun 2013)

Thanks munchy, I have already spoken to frost, he was very helpful, when I explained things to him, as in paying that amount for the last few years, then the prospect of another 5 doing the same, that's no kind of life and bankruptcy seems like the only other option. 

It has been suggested too that I let the debtors know that I cannot pay it anymore (stop paying the weekly payment to mabs) and see what happens from there. I think they can bring bankruptcy proceedings against me, then they pay for costs, whereas if I start proceedings myself, then I pay.  
I am only guessing at that though, trying to read up on all the things to do and how to do it. It's confusing regards, the sheriff and the official assignee of the courts, for instance,  do the creditors first send the sheriff? then if bankruptcy starts, is that when the official assignee is sent in but he will take more than what the sheriff would have? 

Also regards bankruptcy, there is a change in it to be finalised. The advice with that, was to wait until this has been sorted out, apparently you needed to have at least €1900 in assets to apply for bankruptcy, that was a very strange requirement considering what you are applying for.


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## Luternau (1 Jun 2013)

You need to put up your income v's expenditure (rent?) etc

You are entitled to a basic standard of living-any money left over is good for paying debts. If the 35 is too tight, then you should not have to pay that much. You would need to put up all your outgoings-food, electric, gas, transport etc.


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## dubliner (1 Jun 2013)

I'm sorry but I can't find the other thing that people use to post up incomings/outgoings. This is around the average weekly outgoings

Income €204 from carers allowance
Son gives 40 per week from jobseekers, buys his own food (mostly )

Rent                      50.00  
Esb                       22.00
Gas                       12.00
tele etc                 25.00 (phone, internet, tele)
mobile                    5.00
medicines               5.00  (have medical card, this is government fee)
other medicines       5.00
transport                20.00
household upkeep     10.00 
mabs                     15.00
rent arrears            20.00 




I think that's the lot, whatever is left weekly is for food, sometimes I wont have the transport costs, other times it is higher, it varies. As with esb/gas, that too can vary. 

I have a bus pass so no problem there getting to and from my mothers, the transport cost is due to her sometimes calling me at night times, sometimes to bring her to hospital, other times she,s frightened in the house on her own (has severe psychiatric problems). so dumbo here pays for the taxi there and back, shes only on welfare pension herself, I wouldn't ask her to pay for the fare. Again, this is not every week, sometimes it's several times though and nothing for a few more weeks.

There are times I have to dip into esb/gas money, for instance, the fridge I have now is broken the last few months, welfare officer has said she will help, but I have to find the remainder of the money myself. My tap doesn't work in the bathroom, council don't fix these things anymore. The toilet doesn't flush properly, it bangs pipes each time, again, I have to find the money to fix these. I don't want to keep on and on, I am just trying to give a fair idea of how things are.


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## Negotiator (2 Jun 2013)

Dubliner, repaying your debts should be the absolute bottom of your priority list given the circumstances you find yourself in. You really need look after yourself first with at least a basic standard of living before you can consider repaying any money over to creditors.

You should be ripe for a DSA when it's up and running so stop paying your €35 per week and gear yourself up for a settlement.

Who are your creditors?  They mightn't even pursue you anyway and bankruptcy shouldn't be necessary at all. Your creditors definitely won't bankrupt you and even in the unlikely event that the sheriff did call to your home, he most likely won't take anything like tv's, microwaves and stuff like that. They're only interest in stuff with a decent bit of valve that's very liquid.


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## dubliner (2 Jun 2013)

Negotiator, thanks for the advice, I know I can go for the DSA.  MABS  have given me the details on this, (although I didn't know I had to go  through a PIP) The main thing upsetting me at the moment is another 5  years of the same thing that I have already been doing for 4 years. Just  existing, I have tried for that amount of time to live on the bare  amount and yes it can be done if you have no life whatsoever, but I  can't keep it up anymore. 

There is nothing there in my budget for  clothing, a relative dying, you cant afford flowers, our family goes for  a drink when someone dies, I cant do that. Any family member, for  communion/christenings etc, I wont go to, you cant go empty handed, the  kids don't understand why they didn't get something. Any family occasion, I  would have only normal day to day wear, no nice outfit for occasions  (they no longer fit), my day to day wear is worn out, I don't go  anymore, it's humiliating. 

It's the fact that you are basically hiding  away, going to the cinema, even going to a fast food place is out of the  question. Every week you are swapping one bill for another, robbing  Peter to pay Paul and naturally, one or other goes into arrears. Same  thing day in day out. In my budget, it's nowhere near the amounts in the  standard of living guidelines, they have "social inclusion and  participation €125.97" that would be lovely but I do not have any  inclusion, there is no money at all for that. 
The only inclusion I  have is the internet. 

The only way I can see out of it is bankruptcy,  another 5 years of this life is a life sentence. It drags you down,  there is nothing to look forward to. If it involves anything being taken  from my home, I will have to accept that, at least I will have peace of  mind and not be living for the next five years waiting for the day of  it all being finished with. 

I wrote in an earlier post that my  tele (plasma) was worth around €1500 in the shops now, (I thought sheriff  or Official assignee would take it towards the debt) how wrong was I on the price. I  had a look and a plasma of same size brand etc, is 500. so my best  "asset" is not worth a lot.

I won't be doing anything just yet, except writing to the creditors to tell them I can't pay anymore. I don't know enough about bankruptcy to apply for it yet. Hence I am looking for any info/advice regards that.


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## Time (2 Jun 2013)

Under the old bankruptcy rules social welfare payments could not be used to pay debts.

No creditor will go down the road of bankruptcy due to the very low returns rate, they will lose money. 

The preferred course of action is to harass debtors with instalment orders. If your only income is SW there will be no order made.


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## Bronte (3 Jun 2013)

Dubliner let's get a few things straight. You are broke and living on the bare minimum. It is quite clear you cannot affore the 35 Euro's a week that you ageed some time ago with MABS. So my advice to you is to cease the payments, inform your creditors of this, sending them your income and expenditure. 

You cannot afford bankruptcy or any of the other options, so forget about those too. In any case why do you even need to bother.  

Think about it like this, you have no assets whatsoever. Just to clarify in your opening post you listed 'assets' NONE of these will be taken from you. What they will take is valuable cars, antiques, expensive jewellery, farm animals of value etc. Not things you would find in ordinary households. 

What will happen to you, well your creditors can be stupid and maybe try an instalment order, but based on what you've posted they have no chance. Currently no court is ordering instalment orders for anyone on social welfare payments. 

If you need reassurance, have another meeting with Mabs.  You have done your absolute best so far and it's time that you were able to use that 35 Euro for some kind of relief from the constant struggle.


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