# Refusal of entry to a well known niteclub in Dublin



## stepbar (11 Oct 2008)

I need a bit of guidance on this one. Last night I was refused from a well known niteclub in Dublin. To understand what happened I would need to give the background first.

In the last 9 months I've been to this place on 4 occasions. The first occasion was a work collegues leaving do. No issues, got a taxi and went home leaving a work collegue on the way. Exact same the second time. Remember both nights in question clearly.

The third time was a month ago. A male work collegue and myself went up to the door. The security person got a call on the radio to say that we were not being let in. Upon further questioning, it transpired that there was a problem with me. The other guy argued and was let in. Fair enough. I asked what the problem was. No reason given. I stayed outside for less than 5 minutes trying to reason with the bouncer. Gave up, went home and had a pint in the local. 

The fourth occasion was last night. Went up with the same lad and a few others. Same thing again. I wasn't getting in. I had a man to man conversation with the bouncer and asked what the problem was. It transpired that this other bouncer (who wasn't on the door on any occasion I was there!) had the problem. Apparently I threatened "to kill him" on the second night that I was there having successfully got in. There was no talking to him so again I left and went to my local.

What annoys me is how can this be legally allowed? I understand the concept of refusal of entry to a licensed premises but to refuse you because of the attidute problem of one bouncer is rediculus. Whats worse is that I got into this particular spot on two ocassions, remember exactly what happened and remember who I got home with. 

Is there anything legal I can do? I highly doubt this chap is going to have a discussion about this. As you can imagine this is very embarassing with work collegues in presence etc and as such I'm not having it continue.

Finally if I thought for one second that I did something wrong, an apology would be offered.


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## Yorrick (11 Oct 2008)

*Re: Refusal of entry to a licensed premises.*

There is no point talking to the bouncer. Call in and see the Manager in the late afternoon and discuss the problem with him.


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## rmelly (11 Oct 2008)

*Re: Refusal of entry to a licensed premises.*

Is this a windup? You were refused entry and consider it a legal issue (as per forum description). Have you spoken to a solicitor yet? Did you start cursing the bouncers when they wouldn't let you in the first time? 

As for you remembering the bouncers on the door 9 months ago - seriously?


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## stepbar (11 Oct 2008)

*Re: Refusal of entry to a licensed premises.*



rmelly said:


> Is this a windup? You were refused entry and consider it a legal issue (as per forum description). Have you spoken to a solicitor yet? Did you start cursing the bouncers when they wouldn't let you in the first time?
> 
> As for you remembering the bouncers on the door 9 months ago - seriously?


 
Loose the attidute. Don't feel obliged to respond. I came looking here for legal advice not a lecture.


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## rmelly (11 Oct 2008)

*Re: Refusal of entry to a licensed premises.*

Everyone seems to have an attitude problem - me, the bouncers...Regardless, on the second night, did you get a bit drunk? Any chance the bouncer knocked into you by accident during the course of the night, and you had a bit of of banter with him? If not then maybe you have a doppelganger?

Bouncers have been turning people away for years, every business, not just licenced premises reserves the right to refuse admission.

If you do try to get in again or talk to the manager drop the 'I'm not having it continue' attitude. Apologise for what ever it was, say it won't happen again. You're not going to win this argument, even if it is a case of mistaken identity, unless the bouncer has some integrity and will admit to getting it wrong.


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## z105 (11 Oct 2008)

Forget that Nightclub, forget those bouncers, surely there are other nightclubs in Dublin who would be happy to have your business?


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## Towger (11 Oct 2008)

Just look at the good side. With the current crisis those very same bouncers will soon be out on the streets trying to round people up to go into the club


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## Ghodadaba (11 Oct 2008)

It is a legal issue, particularly if the nightclub is in a hotel or operates on a  hotel licence, which has specific legal conditions attached regarding entry to the premises.

The other legal issue is one of defamation of character, which, if the OP says he didn't do what the bouncer said he did, is probably of more concern.

Is the club, as far as you know, attached to a hotel?


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## Ghodadaba (11 Oct 2008)

*Re: Refusal of entry to a licensed premises.*



rmelly said:


> Bouncers have been turning people away for years, every business, not just licenced premises reserves the right to refuse admission.


 
This is 100% legally incorrect.


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## europhile (11 Oct 2008)

A mate of mine was asked by a bouncer in Lillies one night if he had reservations.

"Yes", he replied, "but I'll go in anyway".


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## WaterSprite (11 Oct 2008)

*Re: Refusal of entry to a licensed premises.*



Ghodadaba said:


> This is 100% legally incorrect.



I don't think it is legally incorrect.  You can't refuse admission to people based on categories protected by equality legislation but I believe you can refuse admission to anyone for a non-protected reason.  Happy to corrected on this if you can post something that states why it's illegal to refuse entry to someone based on no particular reason (other than a protected reason).

I agree that OP should contact the manager during the day time and ask if there has been some mistake and perhaps ask to meet the bouncer too to discuss the problem.  Discussing it when OP is at the nightclub trying to get in isn't conducive to solving the problem.

Sprite


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## Ghodadaba (11 Oct 2008)

*Re: Refusal of entry to a licensed premises.*



WaterSprite said:


> I don't think it is legally incorrect. You can't refuse admission to people based on categories protected by equality legislation but I believe you can refuse admission to anyone for a non-protected reason. Happy to corrected on this if you can post something that states why it's illegal to refuse entry to someone based on no particular reason (other than a protected reason).
> 
> I agree that OP should contact the manager during the day time and ask if there has been some mistake and perhaps ask to meet the bouncer too to discuss the problem. Discussing it when OP is at the nightclub trying to get in isn't conducive to solving the problem.
> 
> Sprite


 
Good point, but hotels are actually a special category. They are regulated by the 1963 Hotel Proprietors Act, the legislation under which they also receive their booze licences. If the nightclub is in a hotel, attached to a hotel etc (quite a lot of clubs are operated under hotel licences), then it has to abide by the 1963 Act.

The 1963 Act specifically obliges a hotel to receive "all comers" for food and drink with no exceptions, unless there is reasonable grounds for refusal. It has since been defined by the courts what those "reasonable grounds" actually are.

1 - They don't have the facilities to seve you (i.e. they are full, don't have enough staff to serve you, you're too fat to fit through their front door, anything like that)

2 - To serve you would breach another law (i.e. you're a cop on duty looking for a pint, or you're someone looking for a late drink)

3 - They reasonably believe that you are a danger to others or yourself. (in the OP's case, this might be the defense they use, in which case, the onus would be on the club to prove to the court that this was a reasonable assumption for them to make)

But of course, you're right in one sense. Quoting the 1963 act will cut no mustard with a bouncer. But it might with the manager over coffee some lunchtime.

People are completely unaware that hotels are obliged to serve them. Management in hotels do not have "the right to refuse admission" as everybody thinks.


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## colm (11 Oct 2008)

*Re: Refusal of entry to a licensed premises.*

This has been a problem for a long time. The PSA is suposed to be dealing with the reglation of security staff. I have yet to see a bouncer with ID on display.
You could ask the manager if the bouncer in question is licenced by the PSA if so yu can report his conduct to the PSA if he is not icenced you can report the premises.


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## WaterSprite (11 Oct 2008)

*Re: Refusal of entry to a licensed premises.*



Ghodadaba said:


> Good point, but hotels are actually a special category. They are regulated by the 1963 Hotel Proprietors Act, the legislation under which they also receive their booze licences. If the nightclub is in a hotel, attached to a hotel etc (quite a lot of clubs are operated under hotel licences), then it has to abide by the 1963 Act.
> 
> The 1963 Act specifically obliges a hotel to receive "all comers" for food and drink with no exceptions, unless there is reasonable grounds for refusal. It has since been defined by the courts what those "reasonable grounds" actually are.
> 
> ...



V informative - thanks for that.  

Sprite


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## mathepac (11 Oct 2008)

As I understand it, the useful post from Ghodadaba re: the 1963 Hotel Proprietors Act notwithstanding, the proprieters of a licenced premises reserve the right of admission and the right of service.

They are not obliged to give a reason for refusal, but if they proffer a reason, this is open to legal challenge by the patron(s). Unfortunately for OP its one of those "he said, she said" situations and unless there is strong evidence that OP can produce, the word of the door-staff member is likely to prevail.

I agree with some previous posters - life is too short, move on. Maybe take solace in this thought; if this is the kind of establishment that would refuse the patronage of a decent upstanding citizen like me, would I want to go there anyway?


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## DavyJones (11 Oct 2008)

Same thing happened my brother. He wasn't allowed into a certain nightclub and it's all well and good saying don't bother going but it's hard when all your mates go and you can't. Anyhow he did call there one night and had a quiet word with the one bouncer in question and realised there had been a misunderstanding. They shook hands and moved on, he has been allowed in ever since.


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## rmelly (11 Oct 2008)

*Re: Refusal of entry to a licensed premises.*



Ghodadaba said:


> This is 100% legally incorrect.


 
In what sense is it *100% legally incorrect*? Maybe it is incorrect when applied to hotels (and the OP has made no reference), but it is hardly 100% incorrect for other businesses.


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## europhile (11 Oct 2008)

mathepac said:


> Maybe take solace in this thought; if this is the kind of establishment that would refuse the patronage of a decent upstanding citizen like me, would I want to go there anyway?


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## rmelly (11 Oct 2008)




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## europhile (11 Oct 2008)

The Anti-Groucho.


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## murphaph (11 Oct 2008)

Remind the bouncer "there's a recession on" and "I pay your wages". That should see you right ;-)

Seriously though, you are just going to wind yourself up OP. Forget the numbskull and go to a better watering hole where they want your business.


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## mathepac (11 Oct 2008)

europhile said:


> The Anti-Groucho.


Sporron, as they say in Scotland.


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## spfeno (11 Oct 2008)

europhile said:


> a Mate Of Mine Was Asked By A Bouncer In Lillies One Night If He Had Reservations.
> 
> "yes", He Replied, "but I'll Go In Anyway".


 


C L A S S I C


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## nuac (14 Oct 2008)

forget the legalities - as already advised call to the premises to discuss with management / owner by appointment at daytime.


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## Complainer (15 Oct 2008)

nuac said:


> forget the legalities - as already advised call to the premises to discuss with management / owner by appointment at daytime.


The downside (or possibly upside depending on your POV) of this approach is that once you've seen the inside of the club in the cold sober light of day, and you've realised that it really is a stinking kip with skanky carpeting and threadbare seating, you wont want to go back, regardless of what the bouncers say.


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## ney001 (15 Oct 2008)

How many bouncers does it take to throw a man down the stairs??





None...... He fell!


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## truthseeker (15 Oct 2008)

Complain, by letter, to the owner of the establishment. 
Be articulate, be polite, do not make threats, point out the issue and explain that you feel it must be a misunderstanding.

A number of years back myself and some friends were harrassed on the way in by bouncers pulling the 'regulars only' trick in a well known pub in Phibsboro, we were in fact regulars, the bouncers were new. They were rude, undignified, and basically treated us like children before deigning to allow us in.

I wrote and complained to the owner, not only did I receive a letter of apology and a 50 quid voucher for use in the establishment but he photocopied my letter and gave it to the security firm he used so that (in his words) 'the apes they employ can see themselves as others see them' and he also said that he would be using my letter of complaint as ammo in an upcoming meeting to tender for the security contract.

Complaint letters to the right people work. Particularly if you are polite and articulate.


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## S.L.F (8 Nov 2008)

I think one of the worst ways to end a night is for a group of people to go to a club in town and for 1 person to be refused by a bouncer for no good reason.

I know of some bouncers and in my opinion most of them are scumbags.

As soon as they have their monkeys suits on they become power mad.

One of my best friends was having his stag night, there was 22 of us together (not causing trouble at all), most of us got in.
We didn't have to pay as it was prepaid, my mate was stopped at the door and the bouncer on the door just plain refused to let him in.

No reason just didn't like the look of him.

Ruined the whole night.


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