# Stamp duty payable to put property in joint names?



## mu66 (12 May 2007)

My husband inherited a house (our residence) in 1997 (before we were married-  we married in 2004). Since then we have added substantially to the value of the property (we obtained planning permission - just in my husband's name- and built on an extension). As we didn't need a mortgage to finance the improvements we never changed the property into both names (when it would have been worth a lot less than presently). 
Now we would like to put the property(our residence) in both names (to fund a mortgage on a second property - but- our solicitor has told us that we may have to pay stamp duty to do so. Doesn't this sound mad! 
Any knowledge on this predicament would be greatly appreciated!


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## asdfg (12 May 2007)

AFAIA there is no stamp duty payable when an asset or part of an asset (the property) is transfered between spouses. That's the way it is when you transfer shares between spouses. 

Can't access the revenue site at the moment


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## Noilheart (12 May 2007)

If you are as you say, legally married, then there will be no stamp duty as there is no stamp duty charged on transactions between spouses.  Ring the Revenue stamp duty query line to confirm this  - 1890 48 25 82


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## gonk (12 May 2007)

I'm not a lawyer, but I am puzzled by your solicitor's advice.

From the Revenue's leaflet "Introduction to Stamp Duty":

"Are there any exemptions or reliefs?

Yes. The main exemptions and reliefs are:

A transfer of any property between spouses . . . ."

See: www.revenue.ie/leaflets/sd1e.pdf 

_*ARE THERE ANY EXEMPTIONS OR RELIEFS?*_
Yes. The main exemptions and reliefs are:
*Exemptions*
•
A transfer of any property between spouses*.
•
A transfer of any property between a divorced couple where the
transfer is made on foot of certain specified court orders*.
•
A transfer to an Owner Occupier of a new house/apartment where
a Floor Area Certificate has been issued by the Department of the
Environment and Local Government**.*
•
Certain Financial Instruments used in the Financial Services
Industry*.
•
Certain conveyances, transfers or leases of land to a body
established for charitable purposes.
•
A transfer of land to a Young Trained Farmer. Full details are set
out in a separate leaflet “*Stamp* *Duty* Relief on Transfer of Land
to Young Trained Farmers” (SD 2).
*Reliefs*
•
A transfer of property between associated companies.
•
Certain transfers on foot of reconstructions and amalgamations of
companies.
•
A transfer to an Owner Occupier of a new house/apartment
without a floor area certificate. *Duty* in such cases is charged on
the site value or one quarter of the total value of the property
whichever is the greater. Rates for residential property are shown
in the table at page 2.
_* There is no need to submit these transfers to the *Stamp* *Duty* office for “exempt” stamping._
_*12*_
[FONT=arial,sans-serif]*Page 13*[/FONT]
•
A transfer of property (other than shares) to certain relatives, (e.g.
parent, grandparent, step-parent, child, brother, sister, half-brother,
half-sister, aunt, uncle, niece, or nephew). *Duty* in such cases is pay-
able at half the normal rate applicable. This relief does not apply to
leases or to transactions involving in-laws and/or cousins.
Example
A mother gifts or sells her house, having a market value of £250,000
to her daughter who is a First Time Buyer. The *stamp* *duty* is charged
at 1.5% of the value of the property i.e. £3,750. If the property was
gifted or sold to a non-*relative*, the rate of *duty* would be 3% and the
*stamp* *duty* payable would be £7,500.
_*HOW ARE EXEMPTIONS/RELIEFS EFFECTED?*_
The granting of exemptions/reliefs is contingent upon endorsing the deed
with the appropriate Revenue certificates. Details of such certificates are
contained in leaflet SD10 “Revenue certificates required in Deeds” which is
also available on the Revenue website www.revenue.ie.
_*DO ANY FORMS NEED TO BE COMPLETED?*_
Yes.
•
An Adjudication Warrant must be completed:
-
where there is a gift or where property (i.e. land, shares, etc.,) is
purchased for less than the open market value;
-
where the sellers and purchasers are related;
-
where certain exemptions/reliefs are claimed.
In such cases, the deed must be submitted to a *Stamp* *Duty* Office with a
completed Warrant for Revenue’s opinion as to the correct amount of *stamp*
*duty* due.
•
A completed form ST 21 (Particulars Delivered), which sets out
particular details of the property (i.e. land/house) transferred or
leased and details of the parties to the transaction must be submitted
to a *Stamp* *Duty* Office in respect of:
-
all documents giving effect to the transfer of any property or any
interest in property;
_*13*_
[FONT=arial,sans-serif]*Page 14*[/FONT]
-
the grant of any lease for a term exceeding 30 years;
-
the assignment of a lease where the unexpired term exceeds 30
years.
A Particulars Delivered *stamp* must be impressed on the document in
these cases. This requirement applies to all documents even where no
*stamp* *duty* is payable. There are, however, two exceptions:
-
any transaction creating a joint tenancy between spouses to
which Section 14 of the Family Home Protection Act, 1976
relates;
-
a transfer/lease by or to a housing authority to which Section 8
of the Housing (Miscellaneous Provisions) Act, 1992 relates.
•
Form SD 4 should be completed for transfers of unquoted
company shares.
These forms are available from either the Dublin, Cork or Galway *Stamp*
*Duty* Offices.
_*AM I ENTITLED TO APPEAL?*_
Yes. If you are dissatisfied with a decision or an assessment made by
Revenue relating to *stamp* *duty*, you may:
•
arrange to have the matter reviewed internally by a senior
Revenue Officer, and/or
•
appeal the decision or assessment to an independent tribunal.
Details of the procedures to be followed in relation to an appeal are set out
in a separate leaflet “*Stamp* *Duty* Review and Appeal Procedures” (SD 3).
_*14*_
[FONT=arial,sans-serif]*Page 15*[/FONT]
_*FURTHER INFORMATION*_
Further information on all aspects of *stamp* *duty* may be obtained from the
addresses and telephone number listed below. We look forward to helping
you.
*Stamp* *Duty* Office,
Dublin Stamping District,
Stamping Building,
Dublin Castle,
Dublin 2.
*Stamp* *Duty* Office,
Cork North West District,
Government Buildings,
Sullivan’s Quay,
Cork.
*Stamp* *Duty* Office,
Galway County District,
Custom House,
Flood Street,
Galway.
*Stamp* *Duty* General Information:
_LoCall 1890 48 25 82_
_*15*_
[FONT=arial,sans-serif]*Page 16*[/FONT]
Notes
_*16*_


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## mu66 (12 May 2007)

Thanks for corroborating what I thought to be true.
Our solicitor must be starting to lose his marbles :/)


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## bazermc (12 May 2007)

mu66 said:


> Thanks for corroborating what I thought to be true.
> Our solicitor must be starting to lose his marbles :/)



Solicitors are not tax consultants! unless specifally qualified with the Irish taxation Institute.  In the same way as a tax consultant would not try and give you legal advice......works both ways


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## gonk (13 May 2007)

mu66 said:


> Thanks for corroborating what I thought to be true.
> Our solicitor must be starting to lose his marbles :/)


 
You mentioned a mortgage in your first post. Is it possible that your solicitor was talking about stamp duty on the mortgage, which is separate to and much smaller than stamp duty on the purchase of property?


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## liteweight (13 May 2007)

gonk said:


> You mentioned a mortgage in your first post. Is it possible that your solicitor was talking about stamp duty on the mortgage, which is separate to and much smaller than stamp duty on the purchase of property?



Stamp duty on mortgage is abolished now, but the solicitor might not know that.


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## simplyjoe (14 May 2007)

mu66 said:


> My husband inherited a house (our residence) in 1997 (before we were married-  we married in 2004). Since then we have added substantially to the value of the property (we obtained planning permission - just in my husband's name- and built on an extension). As we didn't need a mortgage to finance the improvements we never changed the property into both names (when it would have been worth a lot less than presently).
> Now we would like to put the property(our residence) in both names (to fund a mortgage on a second property - but- our solicitor has told us that we may have to pay stamp duty to do so. Doesn't this sound mad!
> Any knowledge on this predicament would be greatly appreciated!


 
Unless the solicitor has some other information or that you misunderstood what he/she said it sounds like to me that you need a new solicitor. This is just so basic you cannot have faith in this person. As regards the poster who says that the solicitor is not a tax expert - solicitors in practice basically handles 3 main areas transfer/sale of property, family law and court related work - they at the very least need to know the basics of these matters.


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## MOB (14 May 2007)

"Now we would like to put the property(our residence) in both names (to fund a mortgage on a second property - but- our solicitor has told us that we may have to pay stamp duty to do so. Doesn't this sound mad!"

It does sound mad.  Is there any possibility that you misinterpreted the solicitor?  Perhaps he merely meant that there might be adverse stamp duty consequences? (such as perhaps your loss of FTB status- I would need to check the law, so don't take this as being definitely correct either, but it strikes me as one possibility).


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