# Sick Leave has to come out of holiday leave?



## G7979 (1 Jul 2008)

Hi all just looking for a nudge in the right direction here please. I have informed my employer I will be having an operation shortly and would be looking to take one weeks sick leave (wisdom teeth extraction, so I can plan dates etc) and I have been informed I must take the time out of my annual leave entitlement, is that right? 
I am three years with the company and have never called in sick not even once to date, it seems a little unfair, other members of the staff have been given paid study leave on top of their holiday leave. Can anyone tell me where I stand on this? Also regarding pay, what are my entitlements for the weeks leave?


----------



## jhegarty (1 Jul 2008)

What does company handbook/contract say on sick leave ?


----------



## G7979 (1 Jul 2008)

There isn't one I'm afraid


----------



## Mpsox (1 Jul 2008)

It all depends on the terms and conditions of your employment. The fact that other employees got paid study leave is irrelevant in this situation, if their T&Cs entitle them to do this

Employers are under no obligation to pay sick pay and if that is your companies policy then you probably have 2 options, either take the leave as unpaid sick leave(claiming whatever social welfare entitlements you are entitled to) or as your employer is suggesting, paid annual leave


----------



## G7979 (1 Jul 2008)

there are no t & c's to refer to, no one has a contract, there are no handbooks to read, the employer seems to make it up as they go along, I just wondered if they can force me to take it out of my holiday leave, I had intended to provide a cert as being unfit for work and claim the social welfare entitlements, I also don't know if this is relevant but I have postponed the proceedure twice already at my employers request.

Just as an aside, its not a bad place to work, infact I have enjoyed working here so far, but I was a little surprised at my employer for the stand they took, the study leave for others was a non issue


----------



## ClubMan (1 Jul 2008)

In the absence of this being covered in the contract, employee handbook or by convention (i.e. what has happened before in similar circumstances) you are depending on your statutory rights here I'd assume:

CitizensInformation - Sick leave and sick pay 
CitizensInformation - Types of leave from work 

Maybe also try www.employmentrights.ie.


----------



## G7979 (1 Jul 2008)

Thanks clubman that is exactly what I was looking for


----------



## hhhhhhhhhh (1 Jul 2008)

ClubMan said:


> In the absence of this being covered in the contract, employee handbook or by convention (i.e. what has happened before in similar circumstances) you are depending on your statutory rights here I'd assume:
> 
> CitizensInformation - Sick leave and sick pay
> CitizensInformation - Types of leave from work
> ...


Send the first link to your boss and refer to the last line.

If you go on holidays, get sun stroke, go to the doctor and have to spend 2 days in bed you can claim this as sick leave and get the holidays back.


----------



## redstar (1 Jul 2008)

And also this bit from http://www.citizensinformation.ie/c...-and-conditions/leave-and-holidays/sick_leave  might be relevant to you ...




> If you are ill during your annual leave and have a medical certificate for the days you were ill, these sick days will not be counted as annual leave days. Instead, you can use these days as annual leave at a later date.
> 
> An employer cannot require you to take annual leave for a certified period of illness.


----------



## G7979 (1 Jul 2008)

Thanks everyone for the responses, that is what I suspected, if it is certified then it can't be annual leave, however if I take it out of my annual leave I will then receive full pay, maybe that is what my employer meant. I was a little surprised at the way it was presented to me, but maybe I picked it up wrong, as clubman mentioned, 

"In the absence of this being covered in the contract, employee handbook or by convention (i.e. what has happened before in similar circumstances)"

There has always been a policy of sorts that if you needed leave it was given (as in the study leave I mentioned) without it necessarily affecting the holiday days you had available to you, there is some give and take here, we occasionally do overtime which we are not paid for, I feel a little aggrieved that others got additional paid leave but I am being denied it, but will take what I am entitled to I am not trying to be unreasonable just wondered where I stood


----------



## ClubMan (1 Jul 2008)

As mentioned elsewhere their is no statutory entitlement to paid sick leave. If your contract does not explicitly (in writing) or implicitly (through unwritten convention) provide for it then you can apply for _SW _payment for the time that you are off sick. If, by convention, some or all employess previously received paid sick leave then you too may have a legal entitlement to the same treatment. Probably best to just discuss this again with your employer to get the picture straight in case there has been some misunderstanding before citing/asserting (your) rights and (their possible) obligations.


----------



## redstar (1 Jul 2008)

G7979 said:


> There isn't one I'm afraid



You point out that there is nothing in your t&c's about sick leave ?

The 'Terms of Employment (Information) Act 1994 and 2001 Act' specifies that 
_"One of the terms referred to in this Act on which the employer must provide information is the terms or conditions relating to incapacity for work due to sickness or injury."_

Even if you are not entitled to sick pay, the t&c's must make this clear. The employer can't just make it up as they go along.


----------



## tink (1 Jul 2008)

Sounds to me as if you are temping for an agency and not employed by the company, every company has a handbook to cover their behinds! When I was temping if you were sick you didn't get paid or you used it as a holiday and get paid.


----------



## Joe1234 (1 Jul 2008)

tink said:


> every company has a handbook



Every company SHOULD have a handbook.  It is incorrect to state that they actually do.


----------



## tink (1 Jul 2008)

Well any company I've worked for has put it that way, they are leaving themselves wide open if they don't ..


----------



## Joe1234 (1 Jul 2008)

tink said:


> Well any company I've worked for has put it that way, they are leaving themselves wide open if they don't ..



So has any company that I have worked for, but I know quite a few that do not.  I totally agree that they are leaving themselves open.


----------



## carrielou (1 Jul 2008)

No company/employer has to pay sick leave, its up to discretion of company/employer, but should be stated in your contract, to which you are entitled.

If an employee is on hols, gets sick during, provides a sick certificate from doctor, then this period of time cannot be counted as days/weeks from your annual leave.


----------



## bond-007 (1 Jul 2008)

If an employer made you take holidays whilst sick, can you still claim illness benefit?


----------



## G7979 (2 Jul 2008)

Thanks everyone, am reading up on this and will speak to my employer again, 

tink - its not an agency, I am not temping, I am three years plus with this company, in a permanent full time position, I have never been given a contract, there are no policy documents in place that I am aware of, 

Interesting comment from Bond - 007, I wonder would I be asked to hand over the cheque!!


----------



## shelflife (6 Jul 2008)

you have 2 choices ,
1. get signed off sick and claim whatever benefits you are entitled to and recieve no pay from your employer

2.take the time off as holidays and recieve payment in full from your employer , but you cant claim sick benefits whilst on holidays.


----------



## ajapale (6 Jul 2008)

NiallP said:


> Section 19(3) of the Organisation of Working Time Act 1997 provides that an employee is entitled to two unbroken weeks of annual leave each year (if they have worked for 8 months in that leave year).



An interesting aside:
Under the organisation of Working Time Act the employer must grant/offer two unbroken weeks of annual leave each year (the employee can accept take individual days throughout the year. So in your case if you have already taken 10 days statutory leave in bits and pieces your employer cannot insist you take days here and there to cover periods when you are sick. He must offer you two unbroken weeks of leave.


----------



## job hunt (15 Jul 2008)

this depends on what handbook says. Ps ive had wisdon teeth out- you do nt need a week off


----------



## Joe1234 (15 Jul 2008)

job hunt said:


> Ps ive had wisdon teeth out- you do nt need a week off



Surely the recovery time would differ for each person.  Maybe you might not need a week, but some people might.


----------



## sandrat (15 Jul 2008)

i think my husband had 1 day off for getting 4 wisdom teeth out. time it for a friday and recover over weekend


----------



## Purple (15 Jul 2008)

sandrat said:


> i think my husband had 1 day off for getting 4 wisdom teeth out. time it for a friday and recover over weekend



That's what I did. A week off sounds OTT but that's not what the thread is about.


----------



## bond-007 (15 Jul 2008)

I took a week for mine, but mine got infected afterwards.


----------



## G7979 (16 Jul 2008)

thanks folks, the dentist told me to take a week, so thats what I looked for, but you are right I am sure the recovery time differs from person to person


----------



## Complainer (16 Jul 2008)

sandrat said:


> i think my husband had 1 day off for getting 4 wisdom teeth out. time it for a friday and recover over weekend


My dentist refused to remove wisdom teeth on Friday, just in case complications arose on the next day and he wouldn't be around. So we did it Thursday afternoon - as it happened, there were no complications.


----------



## juke (16 Jul 2008)

2 weeks for me - it got infected andi was admitted to hospital for  afew days - but then I'm sure I was attention seeking!

Sorry - off point


----------

