# Schedule E Expenses for an engineer



## ronny78 (12 Sep 2006)

*Re: Schedule E Expenses*

Hi,

I know this thread is old but I have a query on the subject with regards to engineers and was wondering if anyone can give me a definitive answer.

I am by profession a mechanical engineer and some years ago was told about the Schedule E expense for the Engineering Industry for "all unskilled workers and skilled or semi-skilled workers who do not bear the full cost of their own tools and overalls". The person who told me about it was an Industrial Engineer working in logistics who had been claiming it a number of years at that stage.

I rang the tax office to enquire about it, was quite up front that I actually work in the pharmaceutical industry on building and equipment installation projects and that items such as say safety shoes are supplied by my employer but that when working in say a plant room or on site they don't provide me with overalls and so it is up to me to wear suitable clothing for such work. That said, 65% of my work is paperwork in this industry but I was open about that too as I recall. Anyway, they told me I qualified for it, granted me the expense on my tax credits and told me to send a letter to claim back the previous years. Which I did and received a few cheques for.

I went on to tell friends about this and they too were told they qualify for it. Several work in Manufacturing and Quality Assurance and were also honest in their letters to the Revenue saying " I work as a Quality Engineer and believe I qualify for...". Which is no different say than the software engineers (another thread on here) also claiming the expense. Actually every engineer that applied on my advice qualified. Naturally I was quite popular when people were being sent cheques ! 

However the more people I alert to this the more I wonder how far this expense stretches beyond the traditional engineering industry and would really welcome some clarification if anyone is aware of an official line on the subject.

I did ring the tax office on this before but the lady on the other end of the phone was happy that if you are an engineer you qualify as Engineering Industry. Maybe I'm worrying over nothing but it would be a pain to end up being indirectly responsible if friends I've told ever had to pay this back !

Thanks in advance for any info !


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## Tenacious (18 Sep 2006)

Here's Revenue's full list of Schedule E flat rate expenses for all employments going back as far as the '99/'00 tax year. 

See Rows 47 to 50 for the list of flat rate expenses for the engineering industry. Note that flat rate expense changes from year to year, and are not automatically updated on your Certificate of Tax Credits from year to year.

[broken link removed]


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## Towger (18 Sep 2006)

Hi,

I applied for it this year as a software engineer and got it a week ago. After I sent my application in I heard from 'internal sources' in Revenue that a load of Intel engineers had applied for it during the year and a memo had been sent around Revenue stating that software engineer's etc did not qualify for it. But I was also told that if you apply for it on ROS, no check of you job type is made and it will just be given. This is goes with my theory that it you ask Revenue the same question three times you will get three different answers. When NASA (in the days they had money to burn) developed computer systems they used three independent teams to produce three copies of the same system. The idea was that at least two of the systems should come up with the same answer. If all three gave different results, all hell would break lose !!!


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## SkippyOD (18 Sep 2006)

I receieved an email from an Intel employee via a friend at work and we both applied for it and got it as mechanical engineers. I then passed it on to my girl-friend and buddy who are both teachers and they will be getting it as well, all be it nearly 3 times as much as me. Fair play to whomever started the chain email, don't see anything illegal in taking it. Know for a fact that my girl-friend spends 300-400 quid a year on bits and bobs for school, isn;t that what its supposed to cover you for?


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## WizardDr (19 Sep 2006)

The basis of the 'expense' allowance is that Scedule E folk can only get deductions if they are 'wholly, exclusively & necessarily' incurred and there has been quite a bit of litigation on this. So they grant a small 'expense' allowance. But I would think that the rush on 'engineers; might mean that they would review the definition. Revenue of course wont do this today. They will wait the eight ot nine years, and then do a 'lookback'.

The 'lookback' is a favourite device also used by wicked step mothers. They would wait until many sins were committed over a period ... and then 'gotcha'.

Also you should see the comments of the Institute of Taxation on the Revenue.

If I were a 'software engineer' with Schedule E status, then I would not see how they would qualify where 'tools and overalls' are mentioned. Some I talk to are awlays on about 'putting out fires' and maybe they qualify as 'firemen' or is that firepersons?

So I would either have a written letter from Revenue agreeing what you get. If you mislead them then thats your affair.


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## Towger (19 Sep 2006)

WizardDr said:


> They will wait the eight ot nine years, and then do a 'lookback'.


 
I then reply, here is a copy of what I send you and you agreed to it. !!Actually I spend much more that €185 on the tools of my trade software/hardware/books/subscriptions. If I was self employed I could write off the lot. For example a standard subscription to Microsoft's Developer Network costs almost €2500 per year. Then you have to add on 3rd party tools on top of that. etc etc etc. Much more than a fire man would have to pay for his own kit, if anything!

Anyway the next look back will be all those people with company cars and were not declaring them until their company had to deduct BIK at source. Much more profit in that


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## WizardDr (19 Sep 2006)

Hi Towger:

The issue for Schedule E is not only wholly & necessarily ..but the killer is 'exclusively'. Without labouring the point, this (unless some one challenges it) virtually kills off the ability of Schedule E folk to claim anything. However, the round sum allowances (and these 'expenses' ) dont require vouchers or anything. But 'Tenacious' useful link is where I see why Revenue would shut the door on software types. Some industry representation is the way to change that.

The next look back will be Revenue themselves.


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## Towger (19 Sep 2006)

WizardDr said:


> The next look back will be Revenue themselves.


 
Who watches the watchers.

Dear Bertie's brother in law,

Why was CJH's tax bill reduced. 

.....


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## ronny78 (20 Sep 2006)

Thanks for your responses so far on this folks, although I'm not sure that I'm any clearer than I was at the beginning ! I have e-mailed Revenue to see if I can get a response to my query and if I do I will post it here.

On the subject of "exclusively" would that not imply that just about any of the professions that are receiving Schedule E expenses could be questionable if pushed to prove such a thing ? Or was that the point ?!

However I think the question is still what is being referred to as skilled workers in the Engineering Industry, or indeed what is now classed as Engineering Industry. There is a separate section in Schedule E for the Building Industry which covers tradespeople and also refers to professional engineers, suggesting that the Revenue are not adverse to giving professional engineers allowances. It all seems so open to interpretation that I'd imagine the point could be argued at length in the event of a look-back not being in favour of those engineers claiming it. Hopefully an official line will be forthcoming !


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