# Elderly person tired of Bank of Ireland, is AIB any better?



## Brendan Burgess (3 May 2018)

My elderly mother had a deposit account with Rabo. 
Her current account is with Bank of Ireland. 
She moved the money from Rabo into her BoI current account 
She went down to the BoI branch to open a deposit account.
She came away with a form to be filled in.

I filled in the form for her and she signed it. 
I dropped into her branch, the Montrose branch, today to make sure that they were happy with the form.

It was not clear to me who were staff and who were customers. 
There appeared to be two people helping one customer but it might have been one person helping two customers. 
When they were finished  I asked the woman to help me. 
She did not seem too happy and said she would get someone else, as she was going into a meeting. 
She got someone else out of a room who said that my mother had to come in herself by appointment to meet someone from deposits. 
I told her that she had been in already and it was not convenient. 
She went away to the deposits staff and came back with the same answer. 

I have absolutely no problem with Bank of Ireland or any other bank cutting their costs by only providing an online and ATM service. But they should really say "We don't want your custom."



I am thinking of suggesting to my mother to switch to her local AIB in Dalkey. She could, at least, walk to them.

But is AIB any better? When I occasionally visit my local branch of AIB, there is a cashier and other people sitting at desks so it's clear who the AIB staff are. 

I don't want to go to all the hassle of switching banks only to find that they are the exact same. 

Brendan


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## dub_nerd (3 May 2018)

I doubt you're going to see much better anywhere else. I've had exactly the same experience with BoI and Ulster Bank in the last few weeks, for the same reason -- trying to open deposit accounts with Rabo money. Ulster totally screwed me around, told me they'd take money but then said they couldn't. I opened an account online with BoI but got phone messages from them and now playing telephone tag. It's over three weeks since I closed my Rabo accounts and the money is still sitting in a current account earning the square root of zippo. And yes, none of the banks I've dealt with can handle you just walking in off the street. It's appointments in advance only. The staff don't seem to have fixed abodes, they move around from branch to branch, presumably trying the share the inefficiencies all around.


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## RedOnion (3 May 2018)

It's no different in AIB. I dread the few times a year I have to go to a branch.


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## MrEarl (3 May 2018)

Can't say I'm surprised by that, endless horror stories coming out of BoI these days.  I've always seem them as a little arrogant when dealing with their customers and think their successful exit from the recent banking crisis has only fueled that.

AIB are pushing their four strategic pillars, to include "customer first"


> Our customers are at the heart of our organisation. Customer interaction enabled through a digitally-enabled, omni-channel banking experience.



So I'd expect a little more from AIB at their branches, at least in the short term.

All that said, I actually don't think any of the retail banks want people coming into branches anymore and are purposely trying to force them to use other channels as part of a strategy to close branches over the medium term.

Elderly people seem to be getting the short end of the stick, given many need a little face to face interaction, or may not be comfortable using mobile phone apps etc.

If there's a credit union near your mother's home, then I'd be suggesting she lodges her money with them.  She'll get decent service and a friendly face when some goes in to them, even if there's only a limited range of services at most CUs.  Obviously interest rates are not worth mentioning, in the current environment.

In the absence of a CU, I'd next look at the Post Office when considering what to do with your mother's savings account.


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## mtk (3 May 2018)

This came up 3 or 4 times at the recent bank of ireland agm. Were you there Brendan ?

Older shareholders  ( former staff , mainly I guess ),  saying not wanted as branch customers etc.
Some made the point elderly have the cash bank needs to lend out .

I am not a customer of bank of Ireland but I find aib fine to deal with.


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## MrEarl (3 May 2018)

mtk said:


> ....some made point elderly have the cash bank needs to lend out...



Banks are not currently under pressure for deposits, while paying staff to put their arm around the elderly and talk about poor old Mrs. Smith down the road doesn't generate short term revenue, so the elderly are not high on most Banks priority lists these days.

I'm actually amazed that there hasn't been more backlash from the elderly on the entire issue of how Banks are dealing with the elderly.  There were some small objections in the early days of BoI changing their branches to remove cashiers etc. but nothing like what I expected from the blue rinse (who are usually great at busting politicians balls, taking up space where they are not wanted etc. ... oh and for the record, that's not a criticism of the elderly, so much as me making the point that they've got time on their hands and know  how to make a nuisance of themselves)


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## Brendan Burgess (3 May 2018)

MrEarl said:


> Banks are not currently under pressure for deposits



While I understand that, this will change in time. We will see them advertising heavily for deposits. 

If one of the main banks made themselves more elderly-friendly, they could steal a march on their competitors.

Brendan


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## Sarenco (3 May 2018)

Hi Brendan

I recently opened a deposit account with AIB and I have to say the whole process was completely painless.

The staff member that I was dealt with (in a city centre branch) asked me for the details and filled out the relevant sections of their account opening form himself.  I then handed over the requisite customer identification documentation and signed the form where indicated.

The whole process took less than 5 minutes and I walked out of the branch with my new IBAN in hand.

It was the first time that I had been in a "bricks and mortar" branch in years and I was amazed at the number of customers (not all elderly by any means) that were queuing up to withdraw cash from a cashier with their direct debit cards, rather than using one of the ATMs.


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## Brendan Burgess (3 May 2018)

Update: 

She was able to open a deposit account with BoI online easily enough. The whole range of accounts is not available, but there was one with 31 day notice which is probably ok.

We will see how it works in practice. 

Brendan


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## dub_nerd (3 May 2018)

I opened an account with them online too, but somebody seems to have tried to call me about it and I can't get them back on the phone. I'm all for automation -- if I never had to go into a branch again it would be too soon -- but if they're going to automate things they need to happen ...well, _automatically_.


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## Sue Ellen (3 May 2018)

I deal with AIB and find their staff helpful.  In most branches that I have gone into recently they have staff 'floating on the floor' and always available to help with queries on ATM and lodgement machines.  If they can't help their reception desks are good too.

They were using Relationship Managers some time back so this might be an option too.  Getting through to them with a landline number is much easier than trying to get through to BofI who I am not a fan of.


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## AlbacoreA (3 May 2018)

Not directed at Brendan.

But be wary of older people changing things like banks. Sometimes when people are struggling with other conditions they start changing everything around them thinking that's the problem not them. The relatives only find out later on and no one has the details of any accounts, services etc, as they've all been changed.


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## AlbacoreA (3 May 2018)

I don't find any bank better than another. They've all gone automated. Less staff etc, even cashless.


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## JohnJay (3 May 2018)

There's an opportunity here for 


Brendan Burgess said:


> If one of the main banks made themselves more elderly-friendly, they could steal a march on their competitors.
> Brendan



Maybe there's an opportunity here for the Post Office to come up with a decent, human-focused banking product?


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## bleary (8 May 2018)

I was a life long customer of boi. I'm not quite elderly but I closed everything down with them because of this policy. 
Even if you went to a branch they weren't able to deal with anything . Staff were stressed all the time. Meanwhile they were killed trying to assign me a relationship manager because I was such a valued customer.

 I moved to ptsb but do some banking with aib. There is no comparison to boi. They're both great. Bank of ireland are a disaster and hold their customers and bank staff in contempt in my experience


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## Black Sheep (8 May 2018)

We have no humans in our branch of BOI after 12.30.

If you need to speak to  a human you wait (sit on the blue chairs) and eventually someone appears from the holy of holies and proceeds to discuss your business with you right there in the middle of the floor and the others sitting on the blue chairs. I always ask if their office is available.

Having been a customer with them for over 40 years it's awkward to change now.

From friends and family it appears there is a more customer focused approach in the AIB just down the street.


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## dub_nerd (9 May 2018)

I opened a term deposit account online with BOI at the start of last week. Called them today to check why no money has moved yet. Apparently it takes ten days to debit money from one BOI account and put it in another. Ten days! And this is after Ulster gave me the runaround for another ten days before that until they decided they didn't want my Rabo money. I suppose the one saving grace is that the interest rates are so abysmal I am beyond caring. If this was five years ago I would be losing a packet having money doing nothing for three weeks.


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## Sue Ellen (9 May 2018)

Black Sheep said:


> If you need to speak to  a human you wait (sit on the blue chairs) and eventually someone appears from the holy of holies and *proceeds to discuss your business with you right there in the middle of the floor and the others sitting on the blue chairs*. I always ask if their office is available.



Mother of good God


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## Gordon Gekko (9 May 2018)

I needed to get cash recently. None of the BOI branches anywhere near me provide cash services. I drove to one that does (only until 12.30). There was one hatch manned. There was a guy lodging coins. He took 18 minutes. There were 14 people in the queue at that stage. I demanded to see the manager; a number of people chimed in and it turned reasonably ugly with customers complaining vociferously and venting. The staff were utterly demoralised and couldn’t have given a flying you know what. We desperately need a challenger bank that respects its customers.


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## MrEarl (9 May 2018)

Gordon Gekko said:


> ....We desperately need a challenger bank that respects its customers.



Highly unlikely to happen my friend.

Last time challenger banks tried to open up, very few customers moved over to them despite all the bitchin' and moanin' about the BoI's of this world.


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## dub_nerd (11 May 2018)

MrEarl said:


> Last time challenger banks tried to open up, very few customers moved over to them despite all the bitchin' and moanin' about the BoI's of this world.


Is that really true, though? Rabo had 90,000 customers. I know they weren't a full service bank but within their narrow focus they obviously did enough things well enough to attract a large base. I'd certainly take a close look at any new contenders. Even a half decent credit rating and I would be with them like a shot. I'm finding the lack of choice is reaching scary proportions, and I don't mean that as hyperbole whatsoever.


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## Laramie (11 May 2018)

I keep a working account in the Ulster Bank and my local credit union.

I dread going in to the Ulster Bank branch. There are about four staff members who are completely useless. There is one staff member who is superb. I go in to this branch about twice a month. If I see any of the useless four manning the counter I turn around and leave. If I see the knowledgeable staff member I do all my business in one go.

I am mainly lodging Sterling dividends. Some of the useless four are clueless about dealing with them. Some have not even bothered to log in to their FX system. As a result I often have three or four dividends in my pocket for periods of time until I know the right person is available to deal with them.

I use my credit union for lots of bits and pieces. The staff are superb. Friendly, smiling and helpful.


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## MrEarl (11 May 2018)

dub_nerd said:


> Is that really true, though? Rabo had 90,000 customers. I know they weren't a full service bank but within their narrow focus they obviously did enough things well enough to attract a large base. I'd certainly take a close look at any new contenders. Even a half decent credit rating and I would be with them like a shot. I'm finding the lack of choice is reaching scary proportions, and I don't mean that as hyperbole whatsoever.



Yes, I think it is true.

Often, there is overlap, where a customer could have an account with more than one bank. Each bank conveniently claims the customer to help bump their own numbers, but ultimately it's the bank where most of the transactions take place that should count as the principal retail bank.

Consider RaboDirect, ACC (who were a separate retail bank, even though Rabo owned), Danske, PostBank, Hallifax....  All were challenger banks, many offered more competitively priced services than AIB or BoI, but none of them remain.  I know the banking crisis played it's part, but if they had significant retail businesses here, at least some would remain open (even if they'd merged or been sold on to another stronger bank etc.).

As things stand, I think AIB & BoI continue to have something like 70% - 80% of the retail banking market. That's far from a competitive market. KBC, PTSB and UB share the remainder. While it might be interesting to ask all of the banks to tell us their customer numbers and add them all up, I suspect that we'd end up with a number equal to about 2-3 times our population.

Ultimately, it comes down to one thing - as a nation, we love to bitch and moan in the pubs etc., but we are very slow to vote with our feet.  If we took more definitive action, BoI might be treating their retail customers a little better, Ulster Bank might have invested sufficiently to fix it's IT problems etc. as if they didn't, they'd have lost most of their customers by now.


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## dub_nerd (11 May 2018)

But if, as you say, people tend to bank with multiple institutions, then they are probably seeking different things from different banks. I know _I_ do. I don't have a mortgage but I presume people will definitely switch to get the best rate as there are significant sums of money involved. In a similar vein I shop around continually for best deposit rates. But I don't want to shop around for my current account, where it would be much more disruptive. And on that score, I've been a more than satisfied BoI customer for decades. Yes, the branches are sub-standard nowadays but for general retail business I visit a bank only once every several years on average. Everything is online and that's the way I want it. And it's incredibly good value as I have never paid a current account fee in my life.

(I got a free account offer decades ago when I started working; about ten years later they tried to impose fees but I told them to get lost as I had a large chunk of money sitting in a current account earning nothing at the time so I reckoned they were getting good value from that; to my amazement they agreed, but I only found out years later that they had sidestepped their own internal rules by changing me to a "Golden Years" customer, a privilege I am still a decade and a half away from being entitled to ).

My problems only crop up when I have to use BoI, UB or others for "non-standard business", e.g. setting up new term deposits. There I have found them slow, cumbersome, bureaucratic and not sufficiently automated. And basically in the current environment nobody really wants your money anyway.


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## jpd (11 May 2018)

Laramie said:


> I keep a working account in the Ulster Bank and my local credit union.
> 
> I dread going in to the Ulster Bank branch. There are about four staff members who are completely useless. There is one staff member who is superb. I go in to this branch about twice a month. If I see any of the useless four manning the counter I turn around and leave. If I see the knowledgeable staff member I do all my business in one go.
> 
> ...



Why don't you get the dividends lodged into your bank account by credit transfer? I'm sure the companies/registrar that issue the dividends would be only too glad to do that instead of issuing cheques


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## Laramie (12 May 2018)

jpd said:


> Why don't you get the dividends lodged into your bank account by credit transfer? I'm sure the companies/registrar that issue the dividends would be only too glad to do that instead of issuing cheques



I don't have control of the currency exchange rate used. I can hold on to the cheques and keep an eye on the exchange rate as needs be. However this may be a false economy and it might be easier to do as you suggest.

Do you still get the Dividend Counterpart sent to you if you have the Dividends lodged electronically?


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## fernrock (18 May 2018)

As I needed to make a cheque lodgement, I had occasion recently to visit a B O I in a west clare town.The AIB closed  two years ago . The building is quite small and has only one machine capable of lodgements. When I arrived there was a queue out the door . The person in front of me in the queue was able to tell me that the person at the lodgement machine was 15/20 min at the machine making commercial lodgements. After another 15 mins I eventually got inside the bank only to see *TWO* officials sitting inside the counter just looking at the queue 20/30 minute queue.
Unfortunately they have a monopoly


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## glic83 (10 Jun 2018)

Have you tried EBS? Always found them very helpful and have staff at the counter


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## noproblem (10 Jun 2018)

I live in the west of Ireland, smallish town but it has the BOI, AIB and UB plus a Credit Union. As far as i'm concerned none of the banks give you the feeling they want you coming in at all, want everything automated, etc. Credit Union is a people transacted business more or less but one cannot do everything they need in there, so for me just stick a pin and see which of the other three it sticks in, then use that one. There's certainly no difference between them and they couldn't care a less about you. Funny thing is, there's no loyalty in any business's anymore, neither is there any loyalty in people. We go where there's a deal and that's about it.


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## Bettyk (4 Jul 2018)

I find AIB slightly better than BOI mainly because my local AIB will always have a cash desk open but BOI has to be before 12.30. I find the whole banking situation must be quite hard now for a lot of elderly people with it all being done online and through machines.


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## john luc (11 Jul 2018)

My experience of both AIB and BOI over the years would have me say, a pox on all their houses. I had many years ago used AIB for a personnel and business accounts. I had the pleasure of getting my revenge on AIB for dodgy practice that I eventually dragged them through the ombudsman office which they had squirmed to avoid. I continued to use them for a few more years after as they had a big note on my A/C, don't fook with this one. They have not changed much over the years as I recently had to deal with the estate and even though a small A/C with some funds was suspended they decided to take the funds and pay off a credit card balance that when I went to pay was found to be part paid off. When I challenged the manager about this she panicked and told me sorry. It was a small amount but they seemed to never learn. Reminded her to check head office about my record with them and they got really sorry but I just let it go.


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## roker (31 Jul 2018)

I just opened a BOI current account and requested a Instant Access Deposit account, I was told to do it on line, when I went on line there were no option for this only accounts that required notice. I went back to my branch and I was told it was not in the current page to these accounts and was elswhelse, which was not clear to me when I tried again, so back to the branch who did it for me when I showed them the brochure saying it could be opened in any branch.
I still have to set it up on line by going to Add Account. There was no options to order a paper statement monthly. Seems their software has been patched up with additions.


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