# Developer has applied for planning permission for a development on a land locked site



## Bue5Off (20 Feb 2007)

Can anyone point me inthe right direction. 

A developer has applied from planning permission for a development on a land locked site to the rear of my property.

The local council are building a road for him as an entrance. 

I am not against the development as houses must be built etc. However, we have an old unused boreen to the site of our and it belongs to us. It also leads onto the developers site. 

In his application he shows this boreen as the new route for the water main and he also shows it as a pedestrian access for his developemnt. There is no right of way associated with this boreen. 

Question, can he unilaterally decide and does he have rights to install the water main through my property and do I have a valid objection about the footpath shown onto my property? 

The developer is a multi-millionaire and I am just a PAYE worker and a legal fight does not appeal to me. 

Can anyone advise me what to do?


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## Vanilla (20 Feb 2007)

*Re: Planning Issue*



> Question, can he unilaterally decide and does he have rights to install the water main through my property and do I have a valid objection about the footpath shown onto my property?


 
No of course he can't install either a footpath, water or sewer lines or any type of service through your land without your consent ( and presumably should have to pay you for that consent). However where is the road the council are building for him? Why wouldnt he put the services along that road?


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## Bue5Off (20 Feb 2007)

*Re: Planning Issue*

I would have thought that would be the case. The new road is to the rear of the site and will have access to the sewerage system but the water supply is on the main road with is to the front of the site.


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## ClubMan (20 Feb 2007)

*Re: Planning Issue*



> *Planning Issue*


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## Allen (20 Feb 2007)

*Re: Planning Issue*

Make an planning objection to the local authority and tell them that you own the boreen and are not giving permission for it to be used for laying a pipe or as a footpath.


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## Bue5Off (28 Feb 2007)

*Re: Planning Issue*

I have submitted my submission on the planning application and I will let ye know how I get on.


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## money man (28 Feb 2007)

Phone the developer tell him that you own the lane and that you would like to keep it to build on to your house etc(or another excuse). He may have had difficulty finding the owner and proceeded with planning. If he got planning and begun the development you may have had a better bargaining tool as he would be under pressure to get water and footpath to the site. Now it will be difficult to hold him to ransom as he will be able to possibly find an alternative solution with another landowner nearby. Objecting on this basis does not really make sense as the council will have to ensure he has a footpath and water to the development as will he anyway. Its not a valid objection. It would not be a condition of planning that he has your consent for this just that he can deliver it. If he cannot he cannot go ahead however.  So possibly you should ensure that you own this lane (via land registry search or checking your deeds and then prepare to ask what you feel you are entitled to for this lane. also bear in mind the trouble it may cause you during construction and in future for anti social behaviour etc?? I would try and see could he sell you a house off plans for a knock down price or look for compensation. Get it valued by an auctioneer.


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## Vanilla (1 Mar 2007)

*Re: Developer has applied for planning permission for a development on a land locked*

I'd agree with money man in that you should be able to bargain well with the developer but I do think that the fact that you have put in an objection may even help your bargaining power. While ownership of land is not a valid objection nevertheless in practical terms the council do take notice of these things and will expect the developer to make a reply in relation to that aspect.


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## dave28 (1 Mar 2007)

*Re: Developer has applied for planning permission for a development on a land locked*

I think that prior to anyone applying for planning permission for a development,if private property is to be crossed with services, that a "Grant Of Easement" is required and submitted with all documents relating to the application. Basically this is a permission, or a "wayleave" purchased by the developer from the property owner, allowing service pipes etc to be laid.
 So are you SURE that you own the laneway? If you definitely do, and no "Grant of Easement" exists, then watermain cannot be installed, hence planning application fails !


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## Bue5Off (2 Mar 2007)

*Re: Developer has applied for planning permission for a development on a land locked*

We have checked our Land Registery Maps and we are clearly the owners of the lane and site in question. And as I originally stated I am not objecting to the development per se. I do not want any money out of this. I just want a proper boundary wall to be built around the site to protect our property. Why should I have to contact the developer? Why does he not have the decency to contact me before submitting his plans? I am as reasonable as the next man, probably more so, but if he thinks he can walk all over me, that is not on. He has no right to use this lane or takeover my small site. Is not pointing this out in my Planning Submission to the Council not enough to protect my rights or am I too naive?


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## aaa1 (5 Mar 2007)

My family are going through a similiar issue with a neighbour. I'm not an expert on the matter but from what I've gathered from our own situation over the past few weeks, you hold all the cards. With us an old house exists behind a field which we bought off the past owner of the house almost 30 years ago. He passed away nine years ago and now the current owners - our neighbours - are looking to put in water as part of the group water scheme and a road to the house. The whole thing blew up when they tried to put the water down our private road and into the house. All the maps stipulate that it's a private road so there was no issue there. We found out about this thing called 'wayleave' which they have to obtain before bringing in any water scheme. And the council will NOT bring the water in without it. We had never heard of wayleave before and when we queried it with the Council they were really surprised the group hadn't sought our permission. The officials said that under no circumstances would they go in without our permission as it could cause massive legal problems down the road. They have a standard form which can be filled in but we put in our own clauses such as 'the road will be left in its original state'. We also restricted the size of the pipe to make sure there won't be mass development there in 20 years time. 
In terms of right of way, again they can't go in without your permission. If the former owner of the land had right of foot passage, that's all the current owner has. I heard mumbled threats from our neighbours that cases had been taken recently in the courts to allow for 'modern' modes of transport to be taken in a road that was formerly a cart pass but I don't know anything more about it. If the laneway is really narrow he'll have to buy land off you so that it's wide enough to allow trucks/cars down it. And again, you can put in your own clauses. 
Again I'm no expert but I say go to the Council because they won't/can't give permission for someone else to go across your land. Good luck


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## Bue5Off (5 Mar 2007)

aa1, thanks for that. It is good to hear from someone who is in the same situation. I feel better now as I have to admit the situation is worrying me. I really do want this kind of hassle.


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## aaa1 (5 Mar 2007)

I think you'd be surprised at the amount of people who have these kind of problems - and how out of hand they can get. 
Our neighbours went to the Land Commission to find out if they can do anything about it because we bought the land through them years ago. We've also subsequently found out that the house is still registered in the deceased mans name so we don't even know whether our neighbours actually own it or not. So it'll get messier before it gets sorted. 
What I would advise though is not to let yourself get bullied into signing anything. I was verbally attacked by another neighbour over the water issue and I think if I'd been there on my own she would have physically attacked me. A few days later she was as meek as a lamb when she checked her facts and found she didn't have a leg to stand on. It was all sorted within a few days and after filling out a few forms. 
Also, try and get advice from a few different sources. The solicitor my parents are dealing with just keeps pushing to send legal letters when we want to avoid that kind of situation if at all possible. I spoke to a friend who's a solicitor and he was able to point us in another direction. I know it will cost money but it will be worth it in the long run. 
And I forgot to say earlier. We were advised by a Dept of Agri official that if the neighbours put in the pipes without our permission WE would have lost a lot of rights. I'm not sure how this was the case but he was adament about it. 
Also if the developer argues that he has right of way to the land behind your house he's right because you can't stop someone accessing their land. But he only has right of way (or right of foot passage) over the TOP of the road. He can't dig it up and therefore cannot put in any pipes - that was the point which finally sunk home with our neighbours that they couldn't go anywhere without our permission. 
Finally.....I dunno how in God's name the Council think they can build a road on someone elses land. If it's yours it's up to you to maintain, tar etc and if you want to bring water into it the Council will only bring it as far as the end of their road, and you have to pay to bring it the remainder of the way yourself. Sorry if this is a bit longwinded, my parents nearly had a breakdown over the this issue and I get a bit worked up when I hear of people trying to bully their neighbours to getting what they want. 
Let us know how you get on.


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## scarlet (6 Apr 2007)

*Re: Developer has applied for planning permission for a development on a land locked*

We went through something similar Before we built our house a developer brought in services through our site. We arrived one day and there it was! A big digger track going up one side. He even broke the ditch down to get in and lay the water pipes. I couldn't believe what I was seeing. We rang him and he was a bit embarrasses as he thought maybe we wouldn't notice or that the tracks of the machine would be gone the next time we were there (we were living in Dublin at the time and he probably knew that). He promised us all sorts and 4 years later? Nada, So I would suggest you DO ring him. Make sure he knows that you know what he's up to. He's got plenty of experience and he knows you don't just assume a laneway belongs to just anyone. He probably thinks YOU don't know who it belongs to. Never underestimate the cunning of builder developers.


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