# Standard Life Vanguard Funds



## appd (12 Nov 2019)

Hi,

I have heard that Vanguard Index funds are a good way to invest in the stock market. The funds have a reputation for low fees and charges. However I thought they were only available in the US and would be only available in US currency for EU investors.

I found recently that standard Life provide access to some Vanguard funds. [broken link removed].

Does anyone know if this is a good way to invest? Are these funds offered in Euro currency. And is going through standard Life the only way to access these euro funds?. Are the fees charges higher to go through standard Life? I cannot find any information on the standard Life website about the fees.

Also in general what is your opinion on the performance of vanguard funds over recent years?

Many thanks
A.D.


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## Sarenco (12 Nov 2019)

Vanguard index trackers do a very good job of tracking relevant publicly traded stock indices.

So do BlackRock trackers, State Street trackers, etc...

Really we would need a lot more information to properly address your underlying question: whether - and in what circumstances - it would make sense for you to invest in anything.

Would you consider completing the information set out in the "money makeover" section?


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## 1dave123 (13 Nov 2019)

Hi appd - this may help you with the charges and performance aspect.  Cheers.



			+Digital – Fund Centre


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## appd (13 Nov 2019)

Hi

Thanks 1dave123 for the reply.

Also Sarenco, thanks yes I will check out the "money makeover" section. However I may have made a poor attempt at phrasing my original post. I tried to ask factual questions, rather than ask for opinions on whether I should invest in these funds.

If anyone knows whether standard life the only mechanism available in ireland to access Vanguard? Does that make a difference to the fees and charges.

Thanks again.


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## Sarenco (13 Nov 2019)

appd said:


> If anyone knows whether standard life the only mechanism available in ireland to access Vanguard?


No, Vanguard has a range of publicly available, Irish-domiciled funds.


appd said:


> Does that make a difference to the fees and charges.


Yes, the Standard Life wrapper has a cost.


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## Cormac (13 Nov 2019)

aapd, 
To add to the information already offered:
One can purchase Vanguard ETFs through most brokerages (there are Irish-based brokers (eg Davy), or online ones; of these, DeGiro seem to be the cheapest and do seem to be attracting a good number of Irish clients). 
For an Irish tax-payer, ETFs should come with something of a caveat; the tax implications could be seen as onerous (there is a good deal of information on AAM about this). If you are happy to purchase the ETFs via a broker and deal with the tax reporting yourself  (or pay an accountant to do so; although you would still need to keep a record of purchases etc.) then a Vanguard ETF would do almost exactly what the Standard Life Vanguard funds will do. The ETFs will be cheaper (JustETF is a good site for finding out charges) but you will have to look after your tax affairs yourself. Ballpark figure for Vanguard All World ETF would be, I'm guessing, approx 0.15-0.2%. The Standard Life Vanguard All World is 0.9%; these are basically the same product, so, as you can see, Standard Life is more expensive. 
The pros of the Standard Life offering are 
1. They look after all the tax implications; they will deduct tax at source as it becomes due. Less hassle for the client.
2. You can purchase via direct debit; set it up and let it run. You pull the trigger once and, aside from any re-balancing/increases/decreases you may wish to make, it's basically a 'set it and forget it' option, should you so wish. I suppose how much one values this option depends on one's viewpoint. 
Hope that's useful.
Cormac


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## Oisin19 (13 Nov 2019)

does the government levy still apply to non pension investments in life companies?


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## Sarenco (13 Nov 2019)

Fergal19 said:


> does the government levy still apply to non pension investments in life companies?


Yes, the 1% levy still applies.


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## Sarenco (13 Nov 2019)

Cormac said:


> Ballpark figure for Vanguard All World ETF would be, I'm guessing, approx 0.15-0.2%.


Close!  

The OCF for the Vanguard All-World UCITS ETF (VWRL) is 0.25%.


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## spondulix (14 Nov 2019)

--- moved to its own thread as I kinda hijacked this one ---


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## ADUB79 (1 Apr 2020)

Cormac said:


> aapd,
> To add to the information already offered:
> One can purchase Vanguard ETFs through most brokerages (there are Irish-based brokers (eg Davy), or online ones; of these, DeGiro seem to be the cheapest and do seem to be attracting a good number of Irish clients).
> For an Irish tax-payer, ETFs should come with something of a caveat; the tax implications could be seen as onerous (there is a good deal of information on AAM about this). If you are happy to purchase the ETFs via a broker and deal with the tax reporting yourself  (or pay an accountant to do so; although you would still need to keep a record of purchases etc.) then a Vanguard ETF would do almost exactly what the Standard Life Vanguard funds will do. The ETFs will be cheaper (JustETF is a good site for finding out charges) but you will have to look after your tax affairs yourself. Ballpark figure for Vanguard All World ETF would be, I'm guessing, approx 0.15-0.2%. The Standard Life Vanguard All World is 0.9%; these are basically the same product, so, as you can see, Standard Life is more expensive.
> ...



Just to check
- Does the Standard Life version include the 8-year deemed disposal rule that would normally apply to an ETF?
Thanks


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## Sarenco (1 Apr 2020)

Yes, the 8-year deemed disposal is applicable to linked life assurance funds.

The good news is the life company will calculate and remit the tax for you.

Bear in mind that you also have to pay a 1% Government levy on all premium payments.


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## ADUB79 (1 Apr 2020)

Thanks Sarenco

Weighing up the pros and cons of buying an ETF directly or through someone like Standard Life.

If  it was an accumulating ETF and the plan was to sell it in 7-8 years, then I would only have one taxable event to deal with when I sell it.
The 8-year deemed disposal charge is less of a 'deterrent' then and also removes having to manage annual tax returns on any dividends.


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## Gordon Gekko (2 Apr 2020)

Sarenco said:


> Yes, the 8-year deemed disposal is applicable to linked life assurance funds.
> 
> The good news is the life company will calculate and remit the tax for you.
> 
> Bear in mind that you also have to pay a 1% Government levy on all premium payments.



It is generally possible to get the life company to effectively cover the 1% via increased allocation.


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## Cormac (2 Apr 2020)

ADUB79 said:


> Thanks Sarenco
> 
> Weighing up the pros and cons of buying an ETF directly or through someone like Standard Life.
> 
> ...



ADUB79,
Insofar as I know, that is correct; providing it's only one purchase. So, if you purchased 100 Units on Day 0  and did not add any more units, then sold your holding before the 8-year anniversary, you would have just the one taxable event. 
So, yes, it would most likely mean less book-keeping and accountancy than accounting for dividends from a Distributing fund.

Cormac


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## jpd (2 Apr 2020)

It will also mean that you "have to" sell in 8 years - which may or may not be an opportune time to sell

Anyone who "had" to sell in January 2020 would have done well, anyone who "had" to sell in March 2020 didn't


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## ADUB79 (3 Apr 2020)

jpd said:


> It will also mean that you "have to" sell in 8 years - which may or may not be an opportune time to sell
> 
> Anyone who "had" to sell in January 2020 would have done well, anyone who "had" to sell in March 2020 didn't



Good point - is that a version of timing the market though?
Is 'timing the market' not applicable to both buying and selling - as long as you are not selling at a loss.

If you had criteria of say +25% over 8years (2.5-3%AER) when purchasing, then is it better to stick with the plan and sell regardless of market conditions. Selling in March 2020 could be better than June 2020.


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## DeeKie (3 Apr 2020)

Maybe you should stagger purchasing over a window to reduce risk, or are fees prohibitive


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