# Will I lose my first-time buyers allowance if i go travelling?



## spicychicken (14 Jan 2008)

Hi. I bought my first home in September 07 and I am now thinking of going travelling in June 08 (for a maximum of 6 months). Obviously I would need to rent the house out while I'm away to cover the mortgage payments. Because I haven't lived in the house for more than 5 years, I am worried this will class me as an investor and I may have to pay stamp duty, which naturally I couldn't afford (I'm 25 and single). Is there any leeway considering it would be a short-term lease?

Any advice would be much appreciated!!


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## ClubMan (14 Jan 2008)

The _SD _clawback period is now 2 rather than 5 years but that doesn't help you here. This question (i.e. can I retain my _PPR _status while travelling for c. 6+ months?) has been asked before but I have never seen an authoritative/catch all answer (maybe there isn't a catch all answer and you need independent, professional advice for your specific situation?). In my non professional opinion I am sure that you will be classed an investor with all that comes from that if you collect more than €10K p.a. in rental income (the owner occupier rent a room limit).


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## spicychicken (14 Jan 2008)

Thanks for that - that's what I feared. If I didn't collect more than €10k in rent, would that make a difference?


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## ClubMan (14 Jan 2008)

spicychicken said:


> Thanks for that - that's what I feared. If I didn't collect more than €10k in rent, would that make a difference?


Not sure - you would probably need independent, professional advice to see if/how your _PPR _status was impacted by an extended trip abroad and renting the property out.


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## Purple (14 Jan 2008)

If it's still your PPR and all your stuff is still there then I don't see how the rent a room rules would not apply.
Make sure your post still goes to that address and have your tenant sign a contract specifying that it's a rent a room type letting and I'd say you will be OK. 
There's no harm calling Revenue for their advice but do note that it's just advice and is not a legal ruling.


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## ClubMan (14 Jan 2008)

Purple said:


> If it's still your PPR and all your stuff is still there then I don't see how the rent a room rules would not apply.
> Make sure your post still goes to that address and have your tenant sign a contract specifying that it's a rent a room type letting and I'd say you will be OK.


I would be more inclined to get a professional opinion than depend on this sort of gut feeling.


> There's no harm calling Revenue for their advice but do note that it's just advice and is not a legal ruling.


_Revenue _don't issue advice - just information. And don't even depend on that being accurate all of the time. Also - making an incorrect decision/return based on inaccurate information that they gave out will not be entertained as a valid excuse for doing so.


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## Purple (14 Jan 2008)

ClubMan said:


> I would be more inclined to get a professional opinion than depend on this sort of gut feeling.
> 
> _Revenue _don't issue advice - just information. And don't even depend on that being accurate all of the time. Also - making an incorrect decision/return based on inaccurate information that they gave out will not be entertained as a valid excuse for doing so.


 I agree that a professional opinion would be a good idea but it will still be a grey area no matter who is consulted. BTW I have found Revenue very helpful for information and advice over the years.


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## ClubMan (14 Jan 2008)

At least if you act on foot of professional advice you will be covered to some extent by the professional indemnity insurance of the practitioner. The same certainly does not apply to acting on foot of advice from online forums or raw information (even if accurate) directly from _Revenue_. 

I too have found _Revenue _generally fine to deal with over the years but they have made some very basic mistakes with information that they gave me and which I knew was wrong (e.g. one official told me that only self employed and not _PAYE _employees could backdate pension contributions made before the before October 31st against the previous year's income and only corrected this when I asked them to double check).


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## ubiquitous (14 Jan 2008)

Purple said:


> it will still be a grey area no matter who is consulted.



Really? Have you any grounds for saying this?


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## Purple (14 Jan 2008)

ClubMan said:


> At least if you act on foot of professional advice you will be covered to some extent by the professional indemnity insurance of the practitioner. The same certainly does not apply to acting on foot of advice from online forums or raw information (even if accurate) directly from _Revenue_.


If there is no cut and dry precedent then no professional advice is going to be conclusive. The OP will fork out for a qualified opinion which therefore will not give then the protection of the professionals insurance. 
In the end it will be suck it and see.


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## spicychicken (14 Jan 2008)

Thanks for all the comments so far - don't worry, I will of course seek professional advice. This has been really useful in raising the kind of questions I will need to ask.


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## ClubMan (14 Jan 2008)

Purple said:


> In the end it will be suck it and see.


Not a good way to approach tax planning and potential liabilities.


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## Purple (14 Jan 2008)

ClubMan said:


> Not a good way to approach tax planning and potential liabilities.


  You get a gold star for stating the obvious 
My point is that in my opinion, and I'm open to correction, the OP is not going to get a copper-fastened ass-covering letter from any accountant or tax advisor. They can say that they rent out a room and during the period of the letting agreement they went on holidays for 6 months.


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## ubiquitous (14 Jan 2008)

Purple said:


> You get a gold star for stating the obvious
> My point is that in my opinion, and I'm open to correction, the OP is not going to get a copper-fastened ass-covering letter from any accountant or tax advisor.



If this what they are looking for, I agree with you. That said, I think you underestimate the value to the OP of a professional explaining to them exactly what they should and shouldn't do in order to preserve their FTB status, and being in a position to defend the OP's interests with reference to precedent etc if the OP is challenged on this point by Revenue in the future.


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## ubiquitous (14 Jan 2008)

Purple said:


> The OP will fork out for a qualified opinion...



If they follow your guidance and take a chance on it, they could well be "forking out" quite a lot in the long run. The OP can probably whether it is worth taking such a risk for the sake of a c€100-€150 fee.


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## ClubMan (14 Jan 2008)

Purple said:


> You get a gold star for stating the obvious


In many cases this needs to be done in response to queries here. The obvious is not always obvious to everybody.


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## Purple (14 Jan 2008)

ubiquitous said:


> If they follow your guidance and take a chance on it, they could well be "forking out" quite a lot in the long run.



I'm not disagreeing with you but some people seem to think that the opinion of an accountant on tax issues (or solicitors on legal issues) is gospel. I just wanted to highlight the fact that in the absence of clear legislation or a ruling on the issue it is just an educated opinion.


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## Purple (14 Jan 2008)

ClubMan said:


> In many cases this needs to be done in response to queries here. The obvious is not always obvious to everybody.



Point taken


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## ClubMan (14 Jan 2008)

Purple said:


> I'm not disagreeing with you but some people seem to think that the opinion of an accountant on tax issues (or solicitors on legal issues) is gospel.


Of course it's not - but it's presumably a professional opinion based on an expert reading of the tax legislation and knowledge of precedent etc. which will most likely be more authoritative than raw information (potentially subject to error or omission) issued by _Revenue _or the gut feeling of an internet message board poster.


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## ubiquitous (14 Jan 2008)

Purple said:


> I'm not disagreeing with you but some people seem to think that the opinion of an accountant on tax issues (or solicitors on legal issues) is gospel. I just wanted to highlight the fact that in the absence of clear legislation or a ruling on the issue it is just an educated opinion.



What's wrong with relying on an educated opinion? Its surely a lot better (and should be a lot more useful) than the alternative which you recommend, of getting an off-the-cuff comment over the phone from a Revenue official.


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## Purple (14 Jan 2008)

ubiquitous said:


> What's wrong with relying on an educated opinion? Its surely a lot better (and should be a lot more useful) than the alternative which you recommend, of getting an off-the-cuff comment over the phone from a Revenue official.


 What alternative did I recommend? I agreed that they should seek professional advice, warned that it was just advice and not a legal defence and offered my opinion.


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## Purple (14 Jan 2008)

ClubMan said:


> Of course it's not - but it's presumably a professional opinion based on an expert reading of the tax legislation and knowledge of precedent etc. which will most likely be more authoritative than raw information (potentially subject to error or omission) issued by _Revenue _or the gut feeling of an internet message board poster.


I agree with you, which is why I agreed that professional advice should be taken. I was stating the obvious for the same reason that you were.


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## ubiquitous (14 Jan 2008)

Purple said:


> I agreed that they should seek professional advice



Did you? You suggested going to Revenue for "advice". As Clubman said, Revenue do not dispense advice (much less "professional advice"), merely information.


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## ClubMan (14 Jan 2008)

ubiquitous said:


> Did you? You suggested going to Revenue for "advice". As Clubman said, Revenue do not dispense advice (much less "professional advice"), merely information.


He did:


Purple said:


> I agree that a professional opinion would be a good idea but it will still be a grey area no matter who is consulted. BTW I have found Revenue very helpful for information and advice over the years.


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## Purple (14 Jan 2008)

ubiquitous said:


> Did you?



Yep; 


Purple said:


> I agree that a professional opinion would be a good idea


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## ubiquitous (14 Jan 2008)

Fair enough


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