# unbelievable practices in Dun Laoighaire S.W Offices



## briancbyrne (3 Apr 2009)

My friends partner was in the S.W office at 9:30 in the morning. He asked which was the most appropriate hatch for his querey. Was told hatch 1. Qued 1 1/2 hrs. Got to the hatch and was told he was in the wrong line. He said this was the line he was told to get into to which he got a reply of "theres nothing I can do".

He gets a new ticket, queues again. Gets to Hatch at 11.55am to be told "sorry we go on lunch at 12:00 so I wont be able to talk to you - you will have to come back later". He said it was 11:55 and not 12:00 and he had been queueing since early morning. The lady at the hatch then says wait a moment, goes into the back office and comes back at 12:00 and says "sorry the machine says its 12 o clock" and turns her back and walks away.

What world are these people living in? Do they not realise that the clients approaching them are stressed and often at the end of thier tether? - If this is endemic of the way the public services are run I hope they are cut to the bone in the upcoming budget!

Such behavior and attitude runs through an organisation and the front line person would not dare act in such a way unless it is overlooked by those above her. 

Shame


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## GreenQueen (3 Apr 2009)

First of all I think this should be in "letting off steam"!

Secondly it's not unique to SW offices.

My recent experience was similar.  I brought every single document I was required to, one of which had a typo so I was asked to return the following day with it and bring it to the hatch.  I asked could I post the document instead - my local office is a nearly 40KM round trip which I have to make at my own expense with a small baby, I don't drive and there is no direct transport.  I was informed that of course I could post the document but that they weren't opening post and they couldn't tell me when they would open their post again.

I wouldn't mind but we did have a local office in our town but it has been closed since before Christmas as the staff refuse to operate it and there is no date for it to reopen.  I'm also expected to sign on every 4 weeks on the same trip at my own expense.  It is not my fault the office closed and it is not an easy trip to take - it involves a train journey and transferring to a bus.


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## Natrium (3 Apr 2009)

Hi,
I  wish I could tell you that this is an isolated incident, but unfortunatly, I had similar experiences over the past 18 Months.
The office I was dealing with was in Co. Meath, buth the attitude was similar, and when I made a complaint, things got considerably worse.
I think you are perfectly correct in assuming that it goes all the way up the ladder, and to make an official complaint, you have to go to the Ombudsman, which in turn complicates your case, and the delay's are somethimes longer.
I'm sorry I cant be of more help, and wish you well.


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## redstar (3 Apr 2009)

> What world are these people living in??



The same self-centred bubble where they can go on strike complaining about the pension levy.


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## steph1 (3 Apr 2009)

The best thing would be to email the Minister's office and make a formal complaint about the way these offices are operating.  Obviously there are not enough staff to cope with the increased numbers who unfortunately have to call to these offices.


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## addob (3 Apr 2009)

I HAd to ask my OH if he had posted this on AAM, just about exactly the same experience at Dun Laoghaire Office on Monday!

You're not alone I'm afraid!


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## sam h (3 Apr 2009)

Thats outragous....I used to go to the Navan Road years ago, they used to close the doors at 12 & deal with who ever was in there & paper work.  i know it for sure 'cos I used to go down at 11.55 as they seemed to fly through people as they wanted to get off for lunch.  Does that mean they are takling a 2 hour lunch break?


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## pebbledash (3 Apr 2009)

I must say I got treated really well in DL SW office. They actually made being there much easier because they were so nice. At least they have a ticketing system there, other offices don't.

My only complaint with DL office is that there's one member of staff who curses an awful lot when speaking to people signing on. It's all 'sorry mate, I'm up to me <expletives deleted>. You'd never get away with talking to people like that if they were paying customers. It's really disrespectful to people who's self-esteem has already taken a bashing.

Other than that one guy I think they do a great job under pressure and do their best to make it as painless as possible for people.


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## Bubbles34 (3 Apr 2009)

pebbledash said:


> I must say I got treated really well in DL SW office. They actually made being there much easier because they were so nice. At least they have a ticketing system there, other offices don't.
> 
> My only complaint with DL office is that there's one member of staff who curses an awful lot when speaking to people signing on. It's all 'sorry mate, I'm up to me .......................'. You'd never get away with talking to people like that if they were paying customers. It's really disrespectful to people who's self-esteem has already taken a bashing.
> 
> Other than that one guy I think they do a great job under pressure and do their best to make it as painless as possible for people.


 
You know what I think there is a difference between this guy under pressure and the lady wanting to take her break in time.

I take the guy over the lady anytime as her behaviour has nothing to do with stress I presume


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## lemonhead (3 Apr 2009)

steph1 said:


> Obviously there are not enough staff to cope with the increased numbers who unfortunately have to call to these offices.


FFS, this is the usual rubbish of those who are not operating in the real world....WORK HARDER. All around the country, costs are being cut in an effort to keep companies afloat. Cost cutting involves 4 day weeks and redundencies meaning that frequently the same work load needs to be carried by a reduced staff. What company decides that they are not opening mail, or answering phones because they are too busy (I've had experience of both with government depts over the last couple of years). 
GRRRR!!!


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## GreenQueen (3 Apr 2009)

Apologies I re-read my reply and realised i had pressed submit before I completed!

In the office I attended a member of staff went out to all applicants waiting and asked where they were from at 11.30.  If you were from more than 20KM away you were left alone.  If you were from closer you were asked to return after 2pm.

This office is open from 9.30am - 3.30pm and it is closed for lunch between 1 - 2pm.

The following day 150 applicants arrived at 9.30am to sign on for the first time and there were people waiting through the lunchbreak so as not to miss their number when it was called.  There were 3 out of a possible 6 desks in operation for new applicants.

I've now been told that I may be called back for interview before my application is granted.  I've also been told that when I do sign on I won't have to return until the end of June/beginning of July.  While I'm delighted that I won't have to make the trek for a few months it doesn't say much for their crackdown on fraud!


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## Swallows (3 Apr 2009)

Hi, These Social Welfare offices are not going to have the staff to cope with the numbers of unemployed coming in. Staff should be drafted in from some other departments to cope with the extra workload. Maybe with the budget coming up next week there might be some provision made to address this issue. 

There could be some other way to start the process initially, say in the FAS offices, to sort out the paperwork before sending people along to sign on? This would keep the numbers down and allow staff in S/Welfare to deal with the process.


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## triciamonty (3 Apr 2009)

i got a letter today saying i  wasnt entitled to jobseekers allowance,having read thoroughly found that there was a vast difference between what paperwork i gave to means test officer and what paperwork the deciding officer was given by the means test officer.rang the dole office and eventually i was lucky to get to speak to the deciding officer.she could not believe the errors in the report given to her.i kept a photocopy of all paperwork so was able to pick on the errors .now i have to submit everything again because some gobshi?? couldnt do her job properly


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## triciamonty (3 Apr 2009)

forgot to add this is after 16 weeks


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## Welfarite (6 Apr 2009)

A couple of points: 

1. SW offices have increased work volumes 100%+ in 12 months. They have not got the extra staff promised by the mininster last October so are trying to deal with 100% increase with same resources.
2. The offices are not physically big enough to cater with queues and there cannot man every hatch every minute of every day. Most offices open 9.30 to 4.00. 
3. Staff are on flexitime and entitled to a break like every other worker. Some staff are on their feet at a hatch from 9.30 until 2.00 WITHOUT A BREAK simply because there is nobody to relieve them. 
4. Top management (including the minister) do not give a damn about SW frontline staff nad are too slow reacting to the need for more staff resources, and morale is at an all time low. 
5. They are being asked to use outdated procedures that may have worked in less busy times, but cause bottlenecks now. Nobody expected the drastic increases in ther LR and nobody has reacted to it yet. Staff are left to cope best they can.

If you think it's bad now, I can promise you that it will be a lot lot worse come the summertime. Instead of crying about it here, posters should contact local politicians who might, even at this stage, stem the complete breakdown in SW public office service that is imminent come August.


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## Howitzer (6 Apr 2009)

Welfarite said:


> 5. They are being asked to use outdated procedures that may have worked in less busy times, but cause bottlenecks now. Nobody expected the drastic increases in ther LR and nobody has reacted to it yet. Staff are left to cope best they can.


I'd agree with your points and have every sympathy for, typically, poorly paid people doing a very tough job, however I'd have an issue with this last point.

I've worked with a lot of public sector departments. I'm speaking generally, and not specifically in relation to SW. But outdated procedures are endemic and are usually caused by:

1. Unions demanding pay increases / one off payments for implementing "efficiency". Typically computerising manual tasks.
2. Individuals treating IT training as a joke, turning up when they feel like or not attending atall.

This is my experience across a wide range of departments, though as I said not specifically SW. As such I don't find it surprising that outdated procedures and systems are still being used which prove inadequet when stretched. No effort was made to streamline these systems during the boom. Benchmarking was given with no efficiency gains achieved.

This hole is one they dug for themselves.


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## bamboozle (6 Apr 2009)

Welfarite said:


> A couple of points:
> 
> 1. SW offices have increased work volumes 100%+ in 12 months. They have not got the extra staff promised by the mininster last October so are trying to deal with 100% increase with same resources.
> 2. The offices are not physically big enough to cater with queues and there cannot man every hatch every minute of every day. Most offices open 9.30 to 4.00.
> ...


 

not wishing to be too cynical but working through lunch is hardly cause for martyrdom. especially if office hours are 9.30-4.00


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## liaconn (6 Apr 2009)

briancbyrne said:


> My friends partner was in the S.W office at 9:30 in the morning. He asked which was the most appropriate hatch for his querey. Was told hatch 1. Qued 1 1/2 hrs. Got to the hatch and was told he was in the wrong line. He said this was the line he was told to get into to which he got a reply of "theres nothing I can do".
> 
> He gets a new ticket, queues again. Gets to Hatch at 11.55am to be told "sorry we go on lunch at 12:00 so I wont be able to talk to you - you will have to come back later". He said it was 11:55 and not 12:00 and he had been queueing since early morning. The lady at the hatch then says wait a moment, goes into the back office and comes back at 12:00 and says "sorry the machine says its 12 o clock" and turns her back and walks away.
> 
> ...


 
As a civil servant, this kind of behaviour enrages me, as it gives a truly terrible image of the entire civil service. These ignorant idiots should not be let near a public office and it is really bad management to put them in such a position. Some of the excuses made above re understaffing, out of date procedures etc do not explain the deliberate unhelpfulness and rudeness of these staff. Your friend's partner should send a detailed complaint to Mary Hanafin re their experience and should cc it to the Personnel Officer of the Department of Social and Family Affairs.


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## TreeTiger (7 Apr 2009)

Briancbyrne:

I'm horrified by your friend's experiences and hope he feels able to take some further action on this - it would be understandable that someone signing on might find complaining about the SW staff to be an action well outside their comfort zone, which is perhaps something that a badly behaved staff member would count on.  

Perhaps this link to the contact information for all Dun Laoghaire Rathdown county councillors may be of some use.  Your friend could try emailing them with an account of his experience.  (If it's a problem for your friend to group all the email addresses together so as to just send 1 email, please PM me and I can do that for you.)

I have nothing to do with the Social Welfare Department or the County Council, but just feel that it is awful someone should be treated that way.  Hopefully there are hardly any people in the SW offices who are like this, but no-one should get away with it.


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## Welfarite (7 Apr 2009)

Howitzer said:


> I'd agree with your points and have every sympathy for, typically, poorly paid people doing a very tough job, however I'd have an issue with this last point.
> 
> I've worked with a lot of public sector departments. I'm speaking generally, and not specifically in relation to SW. But outdated procedures are endemic and are usually caused by:
> 
> ...


 
I agree with you, but Point 2 is probably generalising from personal experience? In any case, staff are not being released for training in the current climate in SW offices. But yhou're right, when everything was hunky dory in SW local offices, management never tackled the age-old 'bad practice' hangover, or deal with the unions (namelt CPSU) who had a stranglehold on them with outdated agreements about change.



bamboozle said:


> not wishing to be too cynical but working through lunch is hardly cause for martyrdom. especially if office hours are 9.30-4.00


 
I never said it was 'martyrdom'. I was giving another side to a poster's anecdotal argument that somebody refused to deal with them at 12.00. Public offices are open through lunch in most SW offices, that's the real point. 

I'm not defending the unacceptable behaviour described, just trying to explain reasons why some staff react this way.


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