# George Lee



## dewdrop (5 May 2009)

Not a word yet about George entering politics and his noble reasons for doing so


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## Purple (5 May 2009)

He should be a good addition to the Dail (and FG). There's not that many of them in there that know the first thing about economics.
The guy they have in Berties constituency who used to work for P&G looks geed as well. He will make a change from another lawyer, teacher or career politician as he has actually worked in the real world of business.


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## The_Banker (5 May 2009)

I have to say I admire him. He is giving up a secure job and going into politics.

I think he will walk into the seat if selected by FG (I am assuming he has gotten some kind of guarentee from Enda about selection) but it is still a risk.

At least he is prepared to walk the walk.


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## Staples (5 May 2009)

dewdrop said:


> Not a word yet about George entering politics and his noble reasons for doing so


 

Yeah. He's coming across a bit pious alright. He's only short of saying his country needs him and he's willing to make the sacrifice but at least he's willing to give it a whirl.  He'd be a good (if angry) addition.


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## becky (5 May 2009)

I donno that he is taking a big risk.  As you said he is a shoe in so will have a brillant salary/pension after 5 seconds or whatever it it.  

Don't get me wrong I think he is a great addition to FG and you have to hand it to them for getting him..


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## Howitzer (5 May 2009)

Staples said:


> He'd be a good (if angry) addition.


We could do with a few good, if angry, politicians.


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## potnoodler (5 May 2009)

I wish him the best as I reckon he has the best of intentions , far higher than the usual crowd that are going for it.
Hope he gets it because this country needs a new breed away from the teacher/solicitor/civil servant and hopefully George will be the start of proper leaders stepping up , 
BTW no fan of FG, but they seem to have a few good individuals


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## lou2 (5 May 2009)

I don't think FG are much better/different to FF so I wouldn't normally have voted for them however If I were in the Dublin South constituency and could vote for George Lee I certainly would as he talks sense and says it as it is. I think we really need politicians who have a proven track record in a particular area and are not just chosen because their da/uncle whatever was a TD. I have no confidence whatsoever in social workers/teachers/accountants etc running the country. I want experts.


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## micmclo (5 May 2009)

Purple said:


> The guy they have in Berties constituency who used to work for P&G looks geed as well. He will make a change from another lawyer, teacher or career politician as he has actually worked in the real world of business.



Senator Paschal Donohue, indeed he is a very good candidate and will probably win the seat.


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## ninsaga (5 May 2009)

Gotta question if there was a conflict of interest there all along - he really talked down FF - then he goes and joins FG!


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## Mpsox (6 May 2009)

He could certainly talk the talk, question now is, can he walk the walk? As an ordinary TD,(if elected), he'll be expected to toe the party line and perhaps agree with policies that he may think are wrong. Also I'd be very curious to see where he stands on social issues, not just econonic ones, more to being a politician then pure economics

Still, it'll be interesting to see how he square up against Brian Lenihan in the Dail. Bit of a gamble by Kenny as well, with George's economic background, he could make a good finance spokesman if Richard Bruton fancied a coup after the elections


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## Teatime (6 May 2009)

ninsaga said:


> Gotta question if there was a conflict of interest there all along - he really talked down FF - then he goes and joins FG!


 
He really talked down FF because they were in power for the last 10+ years...makes sense really.


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## Sunny (6 May 2009)

I don't think anyone knows for sure what he will be like but I have to say I admire him. Its very easy for people to stay outside the political system moaning and complaining. Good to see someone who is willing to try and actually do something about it. I think we all knew where he stood with regard to the Government's handling of the economy but I never felt he was anti-Fianna Fail.

Could be interesting if Seamus Brennan's son decides to run. Will be real test to see if this Country has given up on parochical politics i.e. Your dad was a great man so you must be too........


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## Mpsox (6 May 2009)

Sunny said:


> Could be interesting if Seamus Brennan's son decides to run. Will be real test to see if this Country has given up on parochical politics i.e. Your dad was a great man so you must be too........


 
In fairness, young Brennan could be a very competent politician for all we know,


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## michaelm (6 May 2009)

George is a racing certainty.  He's opposed to Individualisation, which is an issue which vexes me greatly.  A few years hence when Enda has move on and Richard is Toiseach, George will be a capable finance minister.


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## Sunny (6 May 2009)

Mpsox said:


> In fairness, young Brennan could be a very competent politician for all we know,


 
Could well be but thats not why FF want him as their candidate. They simply want the Brennan name on the ballot paper. I know FG are kind of doing the same with Lee but without knowing young Bennans qualifications, I would be more comfortable voting for someone like George Lee, a trained economist than someone who simply has a good name. 

Its time for a change in politics. Bring in people with qualifications and experience. For example, why is a Barrister running our Department of Finance? A social worker responsible for trade and enterprise? I think the Country will be much better off if more people did what George Lee did. Of course he could prove to be useless!!


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## Simeon (6 May 2009)

michaelm said:


> George is a racing certainty.  He's opposed to Individualisation, which is an issue which vexes me greatly.  A few years hence when Enda has move on and Richard is Toiseach, George will be a capable finance minister.



Now that's confidence for you! Been to Paddy Power yet?


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## DeeFox (6 May 2009)

Sunny said:


> I don't think anyone knows for sure what he will be like but I have to say I admire him. Its very easy for people to stay outside the political system moaning and complaining. Good to see someone who is willing to try and actually do something about it.


 
I say fair play to George Lee and I think he will be a great addition to Irish politics.  He is articulate, informed and will be a strong voice for FG.  I would be interested though to see if Paddy Powers will take bets on him leaving FG and running as an Independent at some point in the future though - I can't see him toeing the party line if an issue arises that goes against textbook economic principles...


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## Sunny (6 May 2009)

DeeFox said:


> I say fair play to George Lee and I think he will be a great addition to Irish politics. He is articulate, informed and will be a strong voice for FG. I would be interested though to see if Paddy Powers will take bets on him leaving FG and running as an Independent at some point in the future though - I can't see him toeing the party line if an issue arises that goes against textbook economic principles...


 
God no, the system will corrupt his princicples like everyone else! Let the civil service at him and his ideas for 'change'!


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## Simeon (6 May 2009)

Lest we all forget. Here is some of his thoughts from Summer 2006:  [broken link removed]


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## Simeon (6 May 2009)

Sunny said:


> God no, the system will corrupt his princicples like everyone else! Let the civil service at him and his ideas for 'change'!


 Never a truer word spoken. Before George could get to the top of the greasy pole his mentors would make sure that he was one of them. Who would allow any fellow with tree-shaking ambition to get into such a position without first being sorted.


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## dockingtrade (6 May 2009)

fair play its what the country needs, something new and more experteese. FG have upped thier stock , now they need to maintain the momentum by changing the leader now!! As as leader Kenny, is holding FG back. A change now with GLee with propel FG.


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## Shawady (6 May 2009)

The_Banker said:


> I have to say I admire him. He is giving up a secure job and going into politics.
> 
> 
> 
> > One of my colleagues reckons if he does not win the seat he is allowed back into his old job in RTE. Apparently this was mentioned on the radio but I have not heard it myself.


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## Sunny (6 May 2009)

Shawady said:


> One of my colleagues reckons if he does not win the seat he is allowed back into his old job in RTE. Apparently this was mentioned on the radio but I have not heard it myself.


 
He has stated he won't be returning to RTE.


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## Firefly (6 May 2009)

Let's give him a chance.


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## Howitzer (6 May 2009)

Shawady said:


> The_Banker said:
> 
> 
> > I have to say I admire him. He is giving up a secure job and going into politics.
> ...


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## NorthDrum (6 May 2009)

Would be interested to see if he did get a job back at RTE, I would bet he would be back there on a higher wage (as an even higher profile person). If he didnt get that one back he would probably get a job at TV3 so its not really the noble gesture that some are making out.

He has been very clever. Constantly attacked FF as an impartial observer, which has added credibility to his arguements. Then, either because he was always a FG supporter and didnt disclose it, or he sees an opportunity to invest on the wave of disgust at FF by getting into politics (and using his already known image in public to get him in).

I dont know exactly his motivations for doing this, I can only speculate, but I would not think they are for simply doing his bit for the country (I openly admit to being a cynic).

That said, FF havent exactly raised the bar very high for any party to improve on so it should be a walk in the park, if FG dont get into power (even with labour) they should both give up . . .


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## pinkyBear (6 May 2009)

I have to say I am glad george lee has signed up for FG, the problem I have is my local FG man is a well known consultant (I worked with him in a major hospital) and god forgive me but he is a smarmey *****r, I had rows with him at my door step about the latest consultant contracts - I cannot vote for him - though I would vote FG if he were not standing...


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## Howitzer (6 May 2009)

NorthDrum said:


> He has been very clever. Constantly attacked FF as an impartial observer, which has added credibility to his arguements. Then, either because he was always a FG supporter and didnt disclose it, or he sees an opportunity to invest on the wave of disgust at FF by getting into politics (and using his already known image in public to get him in).
> 
> I dont know exactly his motivations for doing this, I can only speculate, but I would not think they are for simply doing his bit for the country (I openly admit to being a cynic).


Ok, I'm going to lay my cards on the table. I'm not a FG supporter and never have been but I 100% respect and believe George Lee when he says that at some point you have to stop moaning and cribbing from the sidelines and do what you can to make a difference.

Politics is the process by which groups of people make decisions. For a long time I've been deeply unhappy with the people making the decisions in Irish politics, and for whose benefit those decisions were made.

I think my my AAM record would definately put me into the cynic corner, bordering on crank perhaps, but there is a difference between cynacism and simply ignoring reality.

I wish George all the best and hope that he proves an example to other like minded individuals of integrity to enter the Irish political system, irrespective of their party of choice.


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## Simeon (6 May 2009)

And so say all of us but there is something in my craw which rankles .......


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## Sunny (6 May 2009)

NorthDrum said:


> Would be interested to see if he did get a job back at RTE, I would bet he would be back there on a higher wage (as an even higher profile person). If he didnt get that one back he would probably get a job at TV3 so its not really the noble gesture that some are making out.
> 
> He has been very clever. Constantly attacked FF as an impartial observer, which has added credibility to his arguements. Then, either because he was always a FG supporter and didnt disclose it, or he sees an opportunity to invest on the wave of disgust at FF by getting into politics (and using his already known image in public to get him in).
> 
> ...


 
Who cares where he ends up if he doesn't get elected? He is entitled to a job and he has stated that he doesn't intend to return to RTE even though RTE are obliged to keep a job for him until the end of the campaign.
I have to say I don't understand why people accuse George Lee of being anti-FF. Are you seriously suggesting he has been planning this for years? You hear the same crap being sprouted about RTE in general. He reported the facts. Can anyone show me a piece where he was blatently anti FF? Are we saying that all RTE reporters should declare their political allegiences before they broadcast?
It makes a change that people are willing to get involved and change things if they believe they can make a difference. I wish him all the best. Hopefully more people will follow his example.


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## liaconn (6 May 2009)

He's running in my constituency and is definitely getting my number 1. 

Yes, he has been openly criticising FF for years and he has been proved right. I don't think there was any game plan there ,he is just a highly intelligent guy with a brilliant grasp of economics - exactly what the country needs now.


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## Caveat (6 May 2009)

The guy "attacked"  *government *policy/reactions etc.  

It so happens to be a FF government.  No doubt he would have had similar or equivalent criticisms regardless of who had been in power for the last number of years.


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## NorthDrum (6 May 2009)

Seriously, theres some really naieve opinions here . . . Thats your right of course . . .

Tell you what in 5 or 6 years time come back looking for me to be the new "in" TD. Irelands economy will eventually recover . . There you go Ive said it, no differant from saying that the boom will eventually collapse . . Its like saying "Im eventually going to die". He was bound to be right at some stage . . 

I didnt say I cared where he ended up but somebody commended his big gamble at not having a job, as if its some sort of honorable gesture. He will have a job of some sorts so thats a silly comment. . 

I suppose the biggest question I have to anybody whos obviously quite defencive and passionate about Mr Lee's intentions is what exactly has he done to proove that hes as honest as he says he is, why should I trust him when there is obvious Impartial issues (as a media commentator) that need to be addressed, not just ignored (the same thing we give out that FF do alot of, ignoring dodgy issues) . . 

And its a just a huge coincidence that hes been attacking FF as an impartial commentator all these years (just conveniently FF have been the main party since he has been in his privelaged position at RTE, to tell the nation what he thinks!) and now is suddenly jumping onto the rising FG boat. Im not saying he wouldnt of attacked another party but the FACT is that he attacked one of them and joined the other . .

I dont think any of our parties have what it takes to properly run this country, so at least I can speak from a place of impartiality (in 10 years time after constantly talking down one of the parties in public domain I will declare my alliegances to another as a patriotic gesture, will I get the same support that Lee gets) . . .


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## Ceist Beag (6 May 2009)

NorthDrum I don't understand your issue? He didn't attack FF as has been pointed out before on this thread. He pointed out what he believed were mistakes made by the government and he has been proven right in this. It wasn't a personal attack on FF, simply criticising government policies. And his analysis over the years has been fairly accurate so I think you're more than just a bit flippant saying he was bound to be right at some stage. And yes I also believe this motives are genuine in getting into politics. I just don't understand your cynicism on this one.


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## MrMan (6 May 2009)

liaconn said:


> He's running in my constituency and is definitely getting my number 1.
> 
> Yes, he has been openly criticising FF for years and he has been proved right. I don't think there was any game plan there ,he is just a highly intelligent guy with a brilliant grasp of economics - exactly what the country needs now.


 
It's all very interesting to see a big name appear like this, but should you/we not wait and see what his policies are beyond his economic ideas. He is obviously ambitious and has constantly built his profile on the back of our recession and this looks like the next obvious step. If he fails, then FF still get the blame, it is a very calculated risk imo.


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## MrMan (6 May 2009)

Caveat said:


> The guy "attacked" *government *policy/reactions etc.
> 
> It so happens to be a FF government. No doubt he would have had similar or equivalent criticisms regardless of who had been in power for the last number of years.


Well there has to be some doubt, what do we really know about Mr.Lee, I guess we will find out all about him soon enough.


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## Sunny (6 May 2009)

I have already said George Lee could be a rubbish TD. Doesn't change the fact that he is prepared to put his reputation (good or bad) on the line and he deserves credit for that. Beats sitting on the sidelines. 

Someone like Michael O Leary has been been taking bigger pops at FF over the past few years without declaring his political allegiences. I would still love it if he joined FG or Labour! Wouldn't make me think that the past few years spent criticising the Governments transport policies were politically motivated. It was just facts. (expressed in very personal terms!). Same could be said about people like David McWilliams.

You accuse people of being naieve but I don't see why. You are basically saying that George Lee shouldn't have joined FG because he dared to criticise the FF Government during one of the biggest economic meltdown in the history of the developed world. He is also on the record criticising opposition policies and agendas coming up to General Elections. At least now he can put his money where his mouth is if elected

I don't know the man and not in the area so can't vote so don't really care but I do welcome people like George Lee running for public office. As I say, it beats the local publican or teacher.


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## shnaek (6 May 2009)

NorthDrum said:


> Seriously, theres some really naieve opinions here . . . Thats your right of course . . .
> 
> Tell you what in 5 or 6 years time come back looking for me to be the new "in" TD. Irelands economy will eventually recover . . There you go Ive said it, no differant from saying that the boom will eventually collapse . . Its like saying "Im eventually going to die". He was bound to be right at some stage . .
> 
> ...



This from the guy with the post on positive mental attitude?! You're a complex man! I'd like to take George at his word and give him a shot. We need new people at the top. Otherwise nothing is going to change.


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## liaconn (6 May 2009)

MrMan said:


> It's all very interesting to see a big name appear like this, but should you/we not wait and see what his policies are beyond his economic ideas. He is obviously ambitious and has constantly built his profile on the back of our recession and this looks like the next obvious step. If he fails, then FF still get the blame, it is a very calculated risk imo.


 
I'm not voting for him because he's a big name, but because he has a proven ability in the area of economics, something which has been lacking in government so far. As other posters have said, we need people with specific and relevant areas of expertise to start running this country properly. Obviously it is always a risk voting someone new in, but its a better option than voting in the same old faces over and over no matter what a mess they've made of things simply because your father always voted for them or they come from a political family or they got a pedestrian crossing installed at the local shopping centre.


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## cork (6 May 2009)

George Lee only recently joined FG.

It was very easy for him on RTE to sit of the ditch cribbing about the economy.

He worked in a bloated semi state for years.

What did he do with regards the running of RTE?

During the Celtic Tiger - what did he do to highlight the stupidity with regards to house prices?


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## NorthDrum (6 May 2009)

shnaek said:


> This from the guy with the post on positive mental attitude?! You're a complex man! I'd like to take George at his word and give him a shot. We need new people at the top. Otherwise nothing is going to change.


 
Hey having a PMA doesnt mean you need to be naieve about individual peoples intentions . . 

This guy has a headstart over anybody starting out. He has in essence been canvassing himself for years and has the public trust (as highlighted here) whether intentionally or not. 

Most people in the media have some sort of agenda. I suppose I just find the convenience of Lee's situation to be a little to far fetched to believe its all been simply innocent actions that have led to this moment.

Nothing would make me happier to be wrong but there is an underlying problem that seems to happen alot in Ireland , kinda like groundhog day.

Everytime somebody has an opinion thats popular and hits a chord with the general public (or a sector of the public) we follow without asking questions. Bertie was our number 1 for years while it suited us and while we were "part of the bubble". 

You need only say something negative about FF as a celebrity and you have a good chance of getting voted in (this is so wrong).

Unions and the labour party are the "in" things to support if they are saying exactly what you think. I suppose I subscribe to the line of thought "beware of people who tell you what you want to hear" particularly if they have something to gain by it.

I have nothing against George Lee, has done nothing against me, but I am not willing to take any Celebrity professional at their word on their impartiality over the years, when the facts point to something differant . .

I think he could be a great potential politician and good for the country, but am not going to assume that because he was a good commentator. I suppose some could look at it asking why he didnt try to enter politics when he knew things were going so bad, as opposed to waiting until the bar has been lowered so low, he should stroll into the Dail with little expectations (after the previous govt). But that would be truely cynical . ..

That said, it will be very interesting to see how he deals with the pressures of actually having to implement policies (as opposed to sit talking about them). For that I will have some sort of respect for the man . ..


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## Kemo_Sabe (6 May 2009)

cork said:


> It was very easy for him on RTE to sit of the ditch cribbing about the economy.
> 
> He worked in a bloated semi state for years.
> 
> *What did he do with regards the running of RTE?*


 
this is a strange one; George's job was to commentate on the economy not to manage RTE! 

Good to see that old-style Irish begrudgery is alive and well on these pages. I happen to think that this is a principled and noble decision by George (it would be far easier for him to hold onto his RTE job) and good luck to him in the by-election, we could do with far more people of his calibre in the Dail rather than the current shower of incompetents and sons\daughters of previous TDs.



cork said:


> *During the Celtic Tiger - what did he do to highlight the stupidity with regards to house prices?*


 
he commentated on it at regular intervals, George has been consistently proved right in his economic analysis despite being labelled a 'doom-monger' and other such idiotic terms by FF.


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## Ceist Beag (6 May 2009)

cork said:


> George Lee only recently joined FG.


Err yes, it has been in the news thanks!



cork said:


> It was very easy for him on RTE to sit of the ditch cribbing about the economy.


ergo it's quite a brave move to actually put his reputation on the line rather than continue to simply commentate on it no?



cork said:


> He worked in a bloated semi state for years.


Err so?



cork said:


> What did he do with regards the running of RTE?


And that is relevant why?



cork said:


> During the Celtic Tiger - what did he do to highlight the stupidity with regards to house prices?


Plenty I think you'll find if you actually listened to him during the boom years.


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## liaconn (6 May 2009)

NorthDrum said:


> Hey having a PMA doesnt mean you need to be naieve about individual peoples intentions . .
> 
> 
> I have nothing against George Lee, has done nothing against me, but I am not willing to take any Celebrity professional at their word on their impartiality over the years, when the facts point to something differant . .


 
I get annoyed when 'celebrities' like Frank McNamara and Packie Bonner are proposed by various parties to run for election. I'm sure they're very nice guys but why on earth should I elect someone to take part in governing the country on the basis of their piano playing or goalkeeping skills. I feel this is really insulting and patronising towards the public. However, George Lee is skilled and talented in an area which is totally relevant to running the country, and has been a vocal critic of FFs economic policies for a long long time. He has shown he knows what he is talking about so I think he deserves a chance to show us what he can do in the Dail. If he messes up, starts putting the party before the country etc, then I won't vote for him again.


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## Simeon (6 May 2009)

Sunny said:


> Someone like Michael O Leary has been been taking bigger pops at FF over the past few years without declaring his political allegiences. I would still love it if he joined FG or Labour! Wouldn't make me think that the past few years spent criticising the Governments transport policies were politically motivated. It was just facts. (expressed in very personal terms!). Same could be said about people like David McWilliams.



If an economic forecaster keeps banging on the same old drum, the cyclic nature of economics will have him right every so often. Just be careful as to when you throw in your lot behind them. McWilliams, in January, was exhorting people to put their under pressure wonga on gold. That was around $935 then. Now it is hovering around $905. But at some stage it will breech the $1'000 mark. This year, next, maybe in ten years time?


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## NorthDrum (6 May 2009)

There are alot of incompetent idiots in the dail (family seats passed on etc), but thats the publics fault.

Its not begrudgery questioning Lee's motives, its prudent. If we had of asked more questions and demanded more answers from our politicians in the past we may not of gotten into this mess. We should start now how we mean to go on. Clean up politics with transparency. 

Nobody can guaranteed Lee's intentions and as such we should demand a proper and acceptable answer on when he decided to join FG, how can he proove he was impartial over the years etc. If he came out and said "well I actually did usually feel FG were a better party" then fair enough, I have more respect for an honest open politician. Its when you start saying "theres no reason to assume his intentions are . . " when distrust begins. . . If you have nothing to hide, then dont try to ignore the issue . .


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## NorthDrum (6 May 2009)

liaconn said:


> I get annoyed when 'celebrities' like Frank McNamara and Packie Bonner are proposed by various parties to run for election. I'm sure they're very nice guys but why on earth should I elect someone to take part in governing the country on the basis of their piano playing or goalkeeping skills. I feel this is really insulting and patronising towards the public. However, George Lee is skilled and talented in an area which is totally relevant to running the country, and has been a vocal critic of FFs economic policies for a long long time. He has shown he knows what he is talking about so I think he deserves a chance to show us what he can do in the Dail. If he messes up, starts putting the party before the country etc, then I won't vote for him again.


 
Thats fair enough. 

However I fear many people will vote for him simply because he says what they think (FF are bad) and because they see him on TV. Kinda like how some people still think "sure bertie wouldnt of let this happen". Some of the ignorance in our country is baffling . . Im shocked Eddie Hobbs hasnt tried to get in on the act . .


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## Sunny (6 May 2009)

Simeon said:


> If an economic forecaster keeps banging on the same old drum, the cyclic nature of economics will have him right every so often. Just be careful as to when you throw in your lot behind them. McWilliams, in January, was exhorting people to put their under pressure wonga on gold. That was around $935 then. Now it is hovering around $905. But at some stage it will breech the $1'000 mark. This year, next, maybe in ten years time?


 
Where did I say I throwing my lot in due to their economic forecasting? I know how economics works. Unfortunately not one member of our Cabinet does. I would like that expertise to sitting at the table next time there is a budget meeting.
BTW, this can be done across the board. Brian Lenihan was good Minister of Justice because he understood it. I would like to see someone from a medical background (outside consultant level) be Minister of Health. Someone from the SME sector or a successful entrepeneur as Enterprise & Development etc etc.


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## Sunny (6 May 2009)

NorthDrum said:


> . Im shocked Eddie Hobbs hasnt tried to get in on the act . .


 
Well now even I have to draw a line somewhere!!


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## liaconn (6 May 2009)

Sunny said:


> Where did I say I throwing my lot in due to their economic forecasting? I know how economics works. Unfortunately not one member of our Cabinet does. I would like that expertise to sitting at the table next time there is a budget meeting.
> BTW, this can be done across the board. Brian Lenihan was good Minister of Justice because he understood it. I would like to see someone from a medical background (outside consultant level) be Minister of Health. Someone from the SME sector or a successful entrepeneur as Enterprise & Development etc etc.


 
I agree. However, in relation to your last point, its the Department of Enterprise, Trade & Employment, and has a very big remit that goes way beyond just the needs of small businesses.


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## Sunny (6 May 2009)

liaconn said:


> I agree. However, in relation to your last point, its the Department of Enterprise, Trade & Employment, and has a very big remit that goes way beyond just the needs of small businesses.


 
Yeah I know but we have a trained social worker running it now! And I do want want a bigger focus to be paid to domestic industry and small business. The days of massive FDI are over. We will have to learn to do things ourselves


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## Simeon (6 May 2009)

Sunny said:


> Where did I say I throwing my lot in due to their economic forecasting? I know how economics works. Unfortunately not one member of our Cabinet does. I would like that expertise to sitting at the table next time there is a budget meeting.
> BTW, this can be done across the board. Brian Lenihan was good Minister of Justice because he understood it. I would like to see someone from a medical background (outside consultant level) be Minister of Health. Someone from the SME sector or a successful entrepeneur as Enterprise & Development etc etc.



When I said 'you' I was speaking in general terms. Of course the ideal situaion would be each minister fully understanding and being experienced in his/her role. This is unlikely to happen. The status quo. Let the minister of transport drive his car to work .......... he might understand the problems facing commuters. Let the minister of health join the queue for a proceedure. Let the finance minister try to budget a mortgage, insurance, hp repayments, school expenses, clothes and food and a little bit for emergencies out of the average wage. Let the minister for communication try and run a small business in an area without broadband. I wonder if a lie-detector test could be introduced in the Dail


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## Sunny (6 May 2009)

Simeon said:


> When I said 'you' I was speaking in general terms. Of course the ideal situaion would be each minister fully understanding and being experienced in his/her role. This is unlikely to happen. The status quo. Let the minister of transport drive his car to work .......... he might understand the problems facing commuters. Let the minister of health join the queue for a proceedure. Let the finance minister try to budget a mortgage, insurance, hp repayments, school expenses, clothes and food and a little bit for emergencies out of the average wage. Let the minister for communication try and run a small business in an area without broadband. I wonder if a lie-detector test could be introduced in the Dail



Wonder where Martin Cullen would end up!


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## Simeon (6 May 2009)

Minister of Art, spelled with a capital F


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## Howitzer (6 May 2009)

NorthDrum said:


> I suppose I subscribe to the line of thought "beware of people who tell you what you want to hear" particularly if they have something to gain by it.


LMAO

http://www.askaboutmoney.com/showpost.php?p=843134&postcount=52


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## Firefly (6 May 2009)

The muppets in the Dept of Finance must be worried - the last thing they want is an abled, educated Minister for Finance. Best of luck George, if I was in your area you'd get my #1


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## Howitzer (6 May 2009)

NorthDrum said:


> I have nothing against George Lee, has done nothing against me, but I am not willing to take any Celebrity professional at their word on their impartiality over the years, when the facts point to something differant . .


Do you have any examples of impartially in George Lee's reportng? If so please post.


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## MrMan (6 May 2009)

liaconn said:


> I'm not voting for him because he's a big name, but because he has a proven ability in the area of economics, something which has been lacking in government so far. As other posters have said, we need people with specific and relevant areas of expertise to start running this country properly. Obviously it is always a risk voting someone new in, but its a better option than voting in the same old faces over and over no matter what a mess they've made of things simply because your father always voted for them or they come from a political family or they got a pedestrian crossing installed at the local shopping centre.


Fair enough he will be strong on economics, what if he wants to slash child benefit, halve the dole, remove medical cards for pensioners and reduce the carers allowance? I'm just saying that we should all wait and see a bit more of 'political george' before we cast any votes (not that I can anyhow). He will have to get used to knowing what makes best economical sense and what the people will actually put up with which is not alot.


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## Kemo_Sabe (6 May 2009)

MrMan said:


> Fair enough he will be strong on economics, what if *he wants to slash child benefit, halve the dole, remove medical cards for pensioners and reduce the carers allowance?* I'm just saying that we should all wait and see a bit more of 'political george' before we cast any votes (not that I can anyhow). He will have to get used to knowing what makes best economical sense and what the people will actually put up with which is not alot.


 
all of this is going to happen anyway - George Lee or no George Lee!


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## NorthDrum (6 May 2009)

Howitzer said:


> LMAO
> 
> http://www.askaboutmoney.com/showpost.php?p=843134&postcount=52


 
Been waiting awhile for that one eh . . 

I did what I said I would like Lee to do. I clarified my feelings on a certain topic. You questioned my motives (which you are entitled to do) and I replied, you chose to assume that I am dishonerable or just incompetent in how I interpret information. 

People can make up their minds about whether or not what I say is the truth or whether or not Im soley speaking from a vested interest point and I come to a small website (meaningless in the overall scheme of the markets) to try to confuse and bamboozle people with points that might make them think they should buy my products . . 

And anyways, Im telling people how I see things in the current climate. You actually argued that 15% unemployement was not equivilant to 85% employment. In the scheme of things and the country it means more then simply 15% but as far as 85% of the working economy, they have jobs, income and should be able to afford to get by.

You will always get one economist saying that the world is going to end and another economist might say things will improve soon (even professionals can interpret information differantly). Some people try to take the good out of news and others prefer to see all the negatives. 

Your arguement is similar to your man on the Late late show who I had to laugh at. He Says "dont buy property it will come down at least 30% in the next year". Absolute in his prediction, no room for debate. Then he says buying a property should be a 20 year plan. I can safely say that I would be confident if you bought a property now, lost 30% in the next few years, you would be back to there or thereabouts what you paid. But lets look at the negatives and forget individual circumstances or people who are ready to buy, theyre mad because there is only one way of thinking . . . right . . .

Ive made my points clear on why I have questionmarks over George Lee, you just appear to be a bandwagon fan of popular opinion. Whatevers in is right. George Lee is in, hes hype, hes right. Being depressed and gloomy is in, its hype, its right . . .. .


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## Howitzer (6 May 2009)

LMAO. 

Totally bamboozled.


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## Conan (6 May 2009)

I have a real dilema:

I am in Dublin South
I am fed up listening to George's gloom and doom on TV
He rarely seems to have anything positive to say
I would not therefore vote for him
But I would normally vote FG
I cannot bring myself to vote FF (can those responsible for the mess clean it up???). I still have some principles.
But if I vote for George and he is elected, I wont have to listen to him on TV ( I might start watching RTE News again...maybe)
So do I prefer George as a TD or on TV?
Decisions, decisions, decisions.....


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## cork (6 May 2009)

Has Paris Hilton done more for the people of Dublin South than George Lee?

What work with community organisations has this guy done?

What econonomic books or journals has he written?

Or are his apprearances on RTE his only claim to fame?

FG and Indo Newspapers wanted to cut stamp duty before the last general elections. This measure would have blown up the property bubble to a greater extent. FG does not have answers to problems with the economy.

I was canvassed by a FG guy last night. I asked him what was the optinum number of local authorities. We have 114. He was clueless.

Lee was great with the doom and gloom. Coming up with solutions is the key. In my openion, opposition parties have failed to do this.

FG with the Green Energy policies is a joke. Wind and tidal power is unproven for mass energy generation. Yet FG come up with this clap trap.

At least FF are not throwing money around any more.


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## shanegl (6 May 2009)

cork said:


> At least FF are not throwing money around any more.



I take it you haven't seen the April exchequer figures then? I'll summarise: they're spending more money now than last year.


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## Sunny (7 May 2009)

cork said:


> Lee was great with the doom and gloom. Coming up with solutions is the key. In my openion, opposition parties have failed to do this.
> 
> FG with the Green Energy policies is a joke. Wind and tidal power is unproven for mass energy generation. Yet FG come up with this clap trap.
> 
> At least FF are not throwing money around any more.


 
Thats the funniest thing I have read in ages!


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## liaconn (7 May 2009)

cork said:


> At least FF are not throwing money around any more.


 
Because there's none left to throw. They've wasted it all.


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## Latrade (7 May 2009)

From what I can see FG already have someone who does seem to pick up on the core mistakes made and proposes some reasonable points: Richard Bruton. 

The problem I see is that it's always easy to sit on the sidelines and pick holes in various things, especially when things go wrong. If anything as a race we're world experts in naysaying with the benefit of hindsight. 

As others have said, stick around taling things down for long enough on economics and you're bound to be proven right at some point. 

It's a bit like the Soccer Pannel on rté, they're great at ranting on about how this or that manager got something wrong, yet how many of them have proven themselves as worldclass managers? 

Armchair punditry is easy. What will be interesting is if he has the balls or the knowhow to figure out some solutions and be accountable for them. However, I doubt he will be expected to or can do so. I think he'll be there as a point scorer for FG, someone to just hit the Government on where they went wrong without any substance or proposition as to how to improve. He's there to get FG a TKO.

And this is where my blood boils. I think we can all agree on the mistakes, the stupidity of the mistakes and the vested interests behind them, however, right now individuals and the country is in a very precarious position it is no time to for political opportunism. All the opposition are trying to do is overthrow a government by systematic death by a thousand cuts. National interests must come before vested person political interests right now. 

It's a very cynical move by FG.


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## Diziet (7 May 2009)

Sunny said:


> ...
> Its time for a change in politics. Bring in people with qualifications and experience. For example, why is a Barrister running our Department of Finance? A social worker responsible for trade and enterprise?...



The 'social worker' bit is one I find amusing and sad at the same time. Given that Mary Coghlan was about 21 when she was elected (or, more accurately, inherited the seat) she cannot have been a 'social worker' for any length of time! Unless you count a possible summer job during her studies. FF are desperate to give her some credibility - I think she is possibly OK as a local politician but utterly without the experience and background needed for Enterprise and Employment. And it shows - I cringed when she took off to the US to drum up support for Irish Enterprise. Heaven help us! 
Diziet


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## capall (7 May 2009)

Lets hope we have more like George Lee putting their money where their mouth is.
That is exactly what we need now in this country people with passion and ability getting off the sidelines and becoming actively involved in politics.

The level of the debate on this thread is pretty feeble I have to say


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## Sunny (7 May 2009)

Latrade said:


> From what I can see FG already have someone who does seem to pick up on the core mistakes made and proposes some reasonable points: Richard Bruton.
> 
> The problem I see is that it's always easy to sit on the sidelines and pick holes in various things, especially when things go wrong. If anything as a race we're world experts in naysaying with the benefit of hindsight.
> 
> ...


 
And FF picking Seamus Brennan's son to run for them wasn't cynical? What does he bring to the table apart from the Brennan name?

Of course FG knew what they were doing when they got George Lee to run. Nobody knows what he will be like or what ideas he has but he is entitled to run if he feels like he can improve things. I still think fair play to him. 

Had to laugh at Barry Andrews yesterday having a go at him for having the option to return to RTE if he doesn't get elected saying he wasn't fully committed to politics. Wonder is he saying the same thing to all the TD's from all parties hanging onto their teaching jobs for 20 years!


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## Simeon (7 May 2009)

cork said:


> At least FF are not throwing money around any more.


 Ahaa! So there still is money to be wasted!


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## Latrade (7 May 2009)

Sunny said:


> And FF picking Seamus Brennan's son to run for them wasn't cynical? What does he bring to the table apart from the Brennan name?
> 
> Of course FG knew what they were doing when they got George Lee to run. Nobody knows what he will be like or what ideas he has but he is entitled to run if he feels like he can improve things. I still think fair play to him.
> 
> Had to laugh at Barry Andrews yesterday having a go at him for having the option to return to RTE if he doesn't get elected saying he wasn't fully committed to politics. Wonder is he saying the same thing to all the TD's from all parties hanging onto their teaching jobs for 20 years!


 
Nope, you're right, however this is about George Lee. Brennan isn't being seen/portrayed as a possible Messiah to the economic state of the country though. 

And yes Andrews was talking rubbish, though I always thought Lee was "commissioned" to make programmes rather than a direct full time employee as is the norm. More of a contractor situation, though I could be wrong.


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## Sunny (7 May 2009)

Latrade said:


> Nope, you're right, however this is about George Lee. Brennan isn't being seen/portrayed as a possible Messiah to the economic state of the country though.


 
To be fair I don't think Lee or FG are saying that. As I say, he could well end up being a crap TD and I would like to know more about where he stands on certain things but I still welcome his decision to stand. Its not about George Lee as such. As someone said, its good to have people who feel they have something to offer come into politics. I would rather people like Lee came forward than have someone standing because of who their Father was. Having said that, Shay Brennan could end up being the best candidate.


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## NorthDrum (7 May 2009)

The very fact that there is such a debate about Lee says it all really. the truth is he should come out and directly deal with the issues that some people have. He should allow reporters question him vigurously on his motives all along. If he answers honestly (and theres no question marks over his answers) then he deserves to be taken on his word. As I said, if you have nothing to hide the truth should be easy and transparent . . .

Somebody asked me what has lee done to suggest he has been lieing about his alliegance. Thats not how it works, its up to Lee to proove to us all that he is as honorable as he says he is. It might take time or a total honest interview like I mentioned, but until then there will always be question marks over his real intentions the last 10 years and his sudden decision to jump on the FG rollercoaster . . 

That said, it is good to see somebody with knowledge that could be vital to help the country out, running for a seat in any constituancy . .


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## cork (7 May 2009)

NorthDrum said:


> That said, it is good to see somebody with knowledge that could be vital to help the country out, running for a seat in any constituancy . .


 
Hurlers on the ditch are common. So too are armchair generals.



> Because there's none left to throw. They've wasted it all.


 
Same could be said for Obamas stimulus package. 

Has Paris Hilton done more for the people of Dublin South than George Lee?

What exactly has Lee achieved?

Apart from a pundit role in the bloated RTE.


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## Ceist Beag (7 May 2009)

cork have you a point other than to write off someone who has literally just put his name forward to run?


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## Howitzer (7 May 2009)

NorthDrum said:


> He should allow reporters question him vigurously on his motives all along. If he answers honestly (and theres no question marks over his answers) then he deserves to be taken on his word. As I said, if you have nothing to hide the truth should be easy and transparent . . .


Do you not think your assumptions are somewhat loaded? "If he answers honestly .." If he answers honestly, but the answers aren't what you want to hear you're not going to believe him. Beyond ripping off his shirt to display a big "I love Enda" tatoo across his chest what do you expect him to say?



NorthDrum said:


> That said, it is good to see somebody with knowledge that could be vital to help the country out, running for a seat in any constituancy . .


Ultimately this is what it boils down to. We need to get away from the Butcher, Baker and Candlestick Maker type of politics thatwe've been mired in since I can remember. I'm completely non-partizan and have voted right across the board in the past. We need honest, skilled individuals of integrity in politics. George may or may not ultimately be that but at this point in time he looks a good candidate.


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## Howitzer (7 May 2009)

cork said:


> What exactly has Lee achieved?
> 
> Apart from a pundit role in the bloated RTE.


 


> *George Lee*, from Templeogue, Dublin,[1] was an economic analyst and reporter with Radio Telefís Éireann (RTÉ), the public broadcasting service of the Ireland, from 1992 to 2009. He was appointed Economics Editor with the national broadcaster in 1996.[2]
> Lee was named Irish Journalist of the Year in 1998 after helping uncover a major tax evasion and overcharging scandal at National Irish Bank. He has devised, researched and presented several television series, including 'Moneybox', 'More To Do', and 'Winds of Change'.
> Prior to his move into broadcasting, Lee was Senior Economist at Riada Stockbrokers. He also worked as Treasury Economist with FTI and as an economist with the Central Bank of Ireland. Lee is a graduate of University College Dublin and holds an MSc in Economics from the London School of Economics.


[broken link removed])


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## potnoodler (7 May 2009)

cork said:


> Has Paris Hilton done more for the people of Dublin South than George Lee?
> 
> What work with community organisations has this guy done?
> 
> ...


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## Latrade (7 May 2009)

potnoodler said:


> I believe that our system is fundamentally flawed because of the reasons above, that is why we've morons such as Dempsey and Cullen running the country because of this mentality , it is time for national interests to take forefront


 
I'm not sure I 100% agree it's a complete flaw. To some extent they are just glorified councillors, but then people have a right to have their local issues and needs addressed and represented at a national level. Yes this can mean someone without a "bigger picture" view misses out in favour of the perons who's going to fix the pot holes, but then what's the alternative?

The UK has slipped down to this parachute MP route where certain candidates are picked to stand not because they are seen as good politicians rather than coming from the local area. Local issues are largely ignored, but I don't see any dramatic improvement in the running of a national government from cherry picked candidates.

Democracy will always have its flaws, but it really is the best we have.


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## NorthDrum (7 May 2009)

Latrade said:


> Democracy will always have its flaws, but it really is the best we have.


 
On this point I have a serious Issue. Perhaps it is the best of a bad bunch but it still needs to be awknowledged that its flawed to bits. Democracy is an idea realised by the privaleged in society, not a reality for a majority of people living in Ireland.

Everybody can technically run for election in a democracy. But whether through money or media exposure or family ties, the average Joe Soap (a majority of the country) will already have a bigger mountain to climb to get into power then somebody with these benefits. 

Democracy only exists in our heads as an ideal, it doesnt really exist for most of us. .

One could argue that the problem isnt as much the system as the mentality of the Irish Public. I know some people have genuine reasons for believing in Lee and prefer to give the man the benefit of the doubt, I dont have any issues with this. I do think theres a pink elephant over his presence that I wish he would address in depth. 

I want to believe there are people out there that can and will make a positive differance on this country FOR THE RIGHT REASONS (as opposed to further their own agenda), but just feel that we, as a nation, are too fickle and easily led for it to happen anytime soon. When I see people jumping to support Lee so quickly without questioning his motives it does remind me of how so many supported Haughy, Bertie etc without asking questions.

Considering the disgraceful behaviour and ignorance thats been the norm for our government for so long, it would be great to see our potential new government be completely transparent. Lee coming out with any skelatons or conflicts of interest that he may of had would be refreshing. The problem is, do the Irish People want to hear the truth, or do they want to hear what they want to hear . . We all know whats happened up until now . .


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## Howitzer (7 May 2009)

NorthDrum said:


> He should allow reporters question him vigurously on his motives all along. If he answers honestly (and theres no question marks over his answers) then he deserves to be taken on his word. As I said, if you have nothing to hide the truth should be easy and transparent.





cork said:


> During the Celtic Tiger - what did he do to highlight the stupidity with regards to house prices?


This is a Q&A session from June 2006 that is freely available on the RTE website. I found the points made with regards to Fianna Fail, House Prices, Bankers, the boom et all, illuminating 3 years on. You can make up your own mind.

[broken link removed]

I've seen it stated many times on this site that no one could have seen it coming, arrah shure it's all dem external factors. Look, there were plenty of people shouting stop. Now it's time to clean up the mess. I don't think the people who got us here are the best one's to get us out.


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## NorthDrum (7 May 2009)

Howitzer said:


> This is a Q&A session from June 2006 that is freely available on the RTE website. I found the points made with regards to Fianna Fail, House Prices, Bankers, the boom et all, illuminating 3 years on. You can make up your own mind.
> 
> [broken link removed]
> 
> I've seen it stated many times on this site that no one could have seen it coming, arrah shure it's all dem external factors. Look, there were plenty of people shouting stop. Now it's time to clean up the mess. I don't think the people who got us here are the best one's to get us out.


 
Thats fair enough and clear about certain points that you highlighted, but that was then, this is now. Perhaps he hasnt been Anti FF all these years, but when did he decide to go into office, at least tell us that so we know how long he was on RTE canvassing for his new party . . . Such a big life changing decision couldnt of been made lightly or quickly . . He should highlight his alliegances all along, who did he vote for while commenting. Of course hes not obliged to tell us, but it would be a nice change to have a cleancut, honest, transparent politician . 

I think its great that somebody got it right about the economy, but booms and busts are part and parcel of capitalism and western economies. He was very prudent and clever when most of us put our heads in the sand, fair play to him, we all should of seen this coming.

Some Economists are predicting a depression (one I listened to recently said Ireland is in a Depression officially) and some are predicting things will even themselves off. The truth is that nobody knows exactly what will happen, its up to us all as individuals to prepare ourselves on how we see fit based on the information out there. The markets around the world have had positive gains for the last month (bank shares up over 1000% on their lowest values). This doesnt mean the world is back to its best but does _suggest_ that we _may_ of seen the markets hit the bottom. This doesnt mean that things wont get worse in this country, but that globally the world economy is starting to at least stop the rot.


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## Howitzer (7 May 2009)

NorthDrum said:


> Thats fair enough and clear about certain points that you highlighted, but that was then, this is now. Perhaps he hasnt been Anti FF all these years, but when did he decide to go into office, at least tell us that so we know how long he was on RTE canvassing for his new party . . . Such a big life changing decision couldnt of been made lightly or quickly . . He should highlight his alliegances all along, who did he vote for while commenting. Of course hes not obliged to tell us, but it would be a nice change to have a cleancut, honest, transparent politician.


? On the day of the announcement he was on every radio station and it was the first question asked. I'm sure if you have a dig around you'll find his exact answers. Paraphrasing, he said he made his decision after the Budget in April. He then went on holidays for a week, and when he returned the only stories he worked were non economic.

I'm not sure what you want - for him to call round to your house, hold your hand and tell you his life story?


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## NorthDrum (7 May 2009)

Howitzer said:


> I'm not sure what you want - for him to call round to your house, hold your hand and tell you his life story?


 
For somebody who appears to put so much faith in what is said by a media personality with obvious conflicts of interests , its surprising that you have problems trusting people with vested interests in other areas of discussion . .


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## Howitzer (7 May 2009)

I take them on a case by case basis.

The question was asked, he gave his answer. Whether you choose to take that answer at face value is up to you. But I don't know what more can be asked or said on the subject.


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## NorthDrum (7 May 2009)

Howitzer said:


> I take them on a case by case basis.
> 
> The question was asked, he gave his answer. Whether you choose to take that answer at face value is up to you. But I don't know what more can be asked or said on the subject.


 
It does say that he was going to run for FG in 2002 before deciding not to, but does not disclose reasons why.That means, he had thought of running with FG before which does raise questions over impartiality. Whether the guy is honest or not, thats a fact that cannot be ignored or easily hidden under the carpet (unless you are in FF and arent we trying to get away from da kind of stuff).

I dont trust anything politics related (I know goes against my PMA opinions) because its simply a differant beast from everything else in life and deserves to be judged on a totally differant level.

The truth is I dont really care that Lee is running. I actually agree with alot of what he says about FF and the economy and do welcome his decision (as I dont think he can do much worse then those already in the Dail).

I just find it odd that people say he deserves to be believed about his impartiality simply because of what hes told us, when something obvious points to something else. The fact that he was going to run for FG in 2002 suggests that he was always a FGer, thats fine, just come out and say it . ."Im George Lee and I have always been a Fine Gaeler" . . Now, was that so hard, he already has one honesty chip up on a majority of those in politics in that he wasnt afraid to make an honest statement that could potentially hinder his chances (highly unlikely though). . .


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## Howitzer (7 May 2009)

Link/quote?


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## cork (7 May 2009)

potnoodler said:


> cork said:
> 
> 
> > Has Paris Hilton done more for the people of Dublin South than George Lee?
> ...


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## NorthDrum (7 May 2009)

Howitzer said:


> Link/quote?


 
 [broken link removed]


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## Sunny (7 May 2009)

cork said:


> potnoodler said:
> 
> 
> > A Celeb economist running for election is great for the nation.
> ...


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## Howitzer (7 May 2009)

NorthDrum said:


> [broken link removed]


 


> In advance of the 2002 general election there was *speculation* that Mr Lee would run as a Fine Gael candidate but, in the event, *he decided not to seek a nomination*. In recent weeks there had been renewed speculation he was in discussions with Fine Gael about running in the Dublin South byelection and that has now been confirmed.


That's the quote from the writter of the article rather than from George Lee himself (my highlight). Speculation that he was going to run and a declaration from himself are 2 different things.

I'd like to see clarity on that myself but there is a distinct difference.


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## RonanC (7 May 2009)

Howitzer said:


> Speculation


 
And this is the main word in that text


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## ice (7 May 2009)

NorthDrum said:


> On this point I have a serious Issue. Perhaps it is the best of a bad bunch but it still needs to be awknowledged that its flawed to bits. Democracy is an idea realised by the privaleged in society, not a reality for a majority of people living in Ireland.
> 
> Everybody can technically run for election in a democracy. But whether through money or media exposure or family ties, the average Joe Soap (a majority of the country) will already have a bigger mountain to climb to get into power then somebody with these benefits.
> 
> ...


I know its going off the point a bit but I totally agree with whats above. The reality is that a huge number of people will go 'thats yer man off the telly - I'll vote for him'. Most people don't take the time to find out about what parties stand for and a lot of people don't even bother to vote....most are too busy getting on with life and although the government of the day will greatly impact their lives they don't seem to associate this with voting, the democratic process etc...
I think that a lot of honest, hard working people who could be very good in government are put off by the 'politics' of it all! Too much back stabbing, greasing palms etc.
We need to make it more attractive for out best people to take the top jobs. People complain about the high salaries of out politicians..I say make them higher....but more results driven and great transparency around this. CEOs of most companies are paid a lot more than Brian Cowen yet the fate of our country is in his hands....we need a new system


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## NorthDrum (8 May 2009)

ice said:


> I know its going off the point a bit but I totally agree with whats above. The reality is that a huge number of people will go 'thats yer man off the telly - I'll vote for him'. Most people don't take the time to find out about what parties stand for and a lot of people don't even bother to vote....most are too busy getting on with life and although the government of the day will greatly impact their lives they don't seem to associate this with voting, the democratic process etc...
> I think that a lot of honest, hard working people who could be very good in government are put off by the 'politics' of it all! Too much back stabbing, greasing palms etc.
> We need to make it more attractive for out best people to take the top jobs. People complain about the high salaries of out politicians..I say make them higher....but more results driven and great transparency around this. CEOs of most companies are paid a lot more than Brian Cowen yet the fate of our country is in his hands....we need a new system


 
Agreed. If we all voted for a reputable hard working, honest individual (after much deliberation) instead of the guy we saw getting financial aids from a big party with a very friendly demeanour (or the guy we saw on telly) this country might not be in the mess its in . .



> That's the quote from the writter of the article rather than from George Lee himself (my highlight). Speculation that he was going to run and a declaration from himself are 2 different things.


 
Yes it is speculation, but in politics seldom is their smoke without fire. but like you said he should at least clarify it.

I know what would solve all this bickering, everybody going into politics has to do a lie detector test . . Imagine had Bertie done one, dont think wearing no underwear and crossing his legs would of hidden his lies like it did for Sharon Stone . .


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## Purple (8 May 2009)

NorthDrum said:


> I know what would solve all this bickering, everybody going into politics has to do a lie detector test . . Imagine had Bertie done one, dont think wearing no underwear and crossing his legs would of hidden his lies like it did for Sharon Stone . .


Don't you dare ever make me visualise anything like that again. You are a bad person!


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## Firefly (8 May 2009)

NorthDrum said:


> Imagine had Bertie done one, dont think wearing no underwear and crossing his legs would of hidden his lies like it did for Sharon Stone . .


 
Xtravision on the way home for me!


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## NorthDrum (8 May 2009)

Purple said:


> Don't you dare ever make me visualise anything like that again. You are a bad person!


 


> Xtravision on the way home for me!


 
That movie scene will never quite have the same meaning to some people ever again ! ! For that I apologise . .


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## Complainer (8 May 2009)

Sunny said:


> And FF picking Seamus Brennan's son to run for them wasn't cynical? What does he bring to the table apart from the Brennan name?


From the FF point of view, he is disposable. He is in there to take the bullet, so that their real candidate (Maria Corrigan) can go into the next general election without a disaster on her record. I'm not an FF fan, but they generally ain't stupid.


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