# Help Planning for parent nursing home costs.



## namrog (13 Dec 2011)

So this is the situation. 
My Mother currently 80 reasonably healthy able driving around etc said she's not going to be like this forever and sometime in the future she is going to need nursing home care. She currently owns a house in the country (no mortgage) and lives off the state pension (200 or whatever it is a week) + additional money from me. 
she has no savings worth talking about maybe 4 or 5 k.
The house itself is going to me left to me but i have to pay any care costs and of course im happy to do that but what id like is to come up with some kinda plan for it (even if its years off).

She mentioned there is some kinda scheme you can pay into for the future. but didnt know much more than that. Does anybody know what this could be?

Id like to know what options are available.
Off the top of my head I was thinking at the start some kind of home help. some one to cook, clean, shop etc.. maybe one of those live in helpers as i think she would prefer this and then later full nursing home care.

So im interested in options, available schemes, info from people in the same situation, people who did this already etc..
Is there waiting lists for these places, do you have to book in advance? if so how much in advance?
Also could she get any equity from the house now for refurbishments or whatever. do banks even do this anymore?  

many thanks


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## The Ghoul (23 Mar 2012)

The Fair Deal scheme. It has been a while since I looked into it but the jist of it is that a percentage of the person's income and assets is taken by the State in return for funding their care.

The person will never end up paying more than the cost of their care and may end up paying substantially less.

It is something like: 
up to 80% of income 
up to 5% per year of the value of the person's home up to a max of 15%
up to 5% per year of the value of other assets (eg savings, other property) with no max

I believe there are some other considerations if the person owns a business or farm

So in you case your mother applies for the scheme, is accepted, pays up to 80% of her pension towards her care, then when she dies the state claims up to 15% of the value of her house and some/all all her savings. In effect the State becomes a beneficiary of her will.

Income or assets of family members does not really come into it, you have no obligation to contribute anything towards her care.

However in case you're thinking of getting her to transfer ownership of her home to you instead be aware that the state goes back 5 years to evaluate assets and means. It's possible that if she had transferred her house 4 years prior to entering a nursing home the state would still claim up to 15% of the value of the home from you. I'm not sure how it works really.


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## Black Sheep (23 Mar 2012)

Perhaps you should discuss this with your mother. She may not be pleased if your plan is imposed on her.
Maybe you could suggest a cleaning lady comes in one or two days a week and over time this lady would come oftener to prepare a meal daily, do some shopping and general housekeeping.
It's usually best to discuss the basic plan with your mother, give her time to think about it, don't push and assure her that you have her best interests at heart

Yes there is a waiting list for nursing home places and there's a myriad of forms to be filled.

Firstly there needs to be an assessment done of the level of care required. This is done by the HSE therefore the choice is not yours or hers as to whether she gets a place (as they are the ones paying or partly paying for it)

Next comes the financial assessment and this goes into all the details of income and savings, value of property etc in order to work out their payment and hers. 
Complicated, I can assure you but this is the time to familiarize yourself with the details. Go to HSE.ie or Citizens Information.ie


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## alexandra123 (24 Mar 2012)

The first thing you need to assess is how much money one can afford for home care - ie people coming in during the week and weekends- possibly even overnight stays if your mother is sick. This can be quite expensive but you can claim up to 50,000 euro tax back on someone coming in to do this.

I was under the impression that the fair deal scheme was in disarray due to the government not having any funding. To try and get into this scheme, you basically look at potential nursing homes that you want to avail off. You then ask the nursing home would they take your mother in her condition and you also contact the HSE and fill out the forms and see what the funding is approved for.

From my experience if you are on the fair deal scheme if the funding does not cover the costs of the nursing home - you need to contribute the rest.



On average it can cost up to and over 1,000 euro a week to support a person in a nursing home. I reckon based on experience and the way the government spending is - that these fundings will be reduced.

http://politico.ie/social-issues/health/7874-nursing-home-support-scheme-in-disarray.html


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## Maximus152 (21 Jan 2013)

Hi all,
very intersting post, but I am a little confused with the details i.e It is something like: 
up to 80% of income 
up to 5% per year of the value of the person's home up to a max of 15%
up to 5% per year of the value of other assets (eg savings, other property) with no max

If there is a married couple, both retired, one needs full care (needs to be in a convelescent home due to ill health) and they own thier own home and both are on state pension does the above method suggest that:
1. he uses 80% of his state pension (hers is not touched) to pay for the convelescent home?
2. 5% per year of value of home up to 15%...thats only 3 years....does it not continue or 15% the max deducted.
3. Does that this mean they pay 80% of Pension+15 % of property + 5 % of savings?
or am I mis-reading this.
I wonder is there any examples of a elderly couple who have or will decide to use this scheme as it is very confusing for them I am sure never mind me. Any info mucg appreciated.
Just a thought, would a couple be better of selling the home and buying a smaller one and then paying the nursing home costs directly?

Thanks 
Max


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## RichInSpirit (21 Jan 2013)

Why not bring mother back to your place to live with you and save €1000 a week. ?
Maybe you could build an extension or sub divide your house so she could live in a granny flat next door to you. ?


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## STEINER (21 Jan 2013)

Maximus152 said:


> Hi all,
> very intersting post, but I am a little confused with the details i.e It is something like:
> up to 80% of income
> up to 5% per year of the value of the person's home up to a max of 15%
> ...




Hi,

I have been immersed in getting the Fair Deal Scheme for a widowed relative and in fact is now in a nice Nursing home since before Chrismas 2012.  Person pays about €300 per week and HSE pays about €650 a week.  I find the Fair Deal Scheme fair and reasonable enough.  The hard bit is finding a nice place with a vacancy close to home or relatives.

I think in the case of a couple who own a house/assets, if one of them has to live in a nursing home under the fair deal scheme, broadly speaking 50% of house/assets/income is assessed.

Maybe someone else here has more detailed information on the couple situation.


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## twofor1 (22 Jan 2013)

Maximus152 said:


> I wonder is there any examples of a elderly couple who have or will decide to use this scheme as it is very confusing for them I am sure never mind me. Any info mucg appreciated.
> Max


10 examples of how Fair Deal work can be found here;

http://www.dohc.ie/issues/fair_deal/fair_deal_examples.pdf?direct=1

This paragraph from the notes before the 10 examples is very significant;

*ii. In the case of couples, the financial assessment is based on half of their combined income and assets, i.e. 80% of half the combined assessable income OR 40% of the combined income and 5% of half the value of the assets OR 2.5% of the combined assets. In addition, the asset disregard increases to €72,000. *


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## Maximus152 (22 Jan 2013)

Hi Stiener,
thats great to hear, and I see exactly what you are talking about i.e Person pays about €300 per week and HSE pays about €650 a week, easy example to relate to as a guide. As you say even better if you can get a nice place close to you.
Thanks 
Max


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## Maximus152 (22 Jan 2013)

Hi Twofor1,
that a good set of examples thank you! One question...it says 15% of home assets i.e 5 % for 3 years.... whats happens after three years...if for example the family member lives to a ripe old age of 100....wonders!

Rgds
Max


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## twofor1 (23 Jan 2013)

Your principal residence will only be included in the financial assessment for the first 3 years of your time in care. This is known as the 15% or 'three year' cap. It means that you will pay a 5% contribution based on your principal residence for a maximum of three years regardless of the time you spend in nursing home care*. After 3 years, even if you are still getting long-term nursing home care, you will not pay any further contribution based on the principal residence.* This 'three year' cap applies regardless of whether you choose to opt for the loan or not. 

http://hse.ie/eng/services/Find_a_Service/Older_People_Services/nhss/#fin

In relation to an earlier question, it’s worth noting, if your relation sold their principal residence, these funds would be savings and whatever savings are there would be assessable indefinitely, whereas a principle residence is only assessable for the first three years.

If savings are reducing, you can apply to be reassesed financially at any reasonable time.


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## Maximus152 (23 Jan 2013)

Thank you twofor1, well explained, okay I see where you are coming from on the sale of the property! point taken.

Rgds
Maximus


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## Bronco Lane (24 Jan 2013)

namrog said:


> Also could she get any equity from the house now for refurbishments or whatever. do banks even do this anymore?
> 
> many thanks


 
Are the refurbishments for your mother or for the person who will eventually inherit the home or is it with a view to renting out the property?


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