# CU refused to take Public Services Card as proof of PPSN



## emeralds (19 May 2018)

Was in my local credit union this morning and they asked for updated id. I gave driving licence as photo id and then offered my Public Services Card as proof of PPSN. This was rejected. I need to produce a medical card, European Health Insurance Card or payslip as proof.
Am a bit gobsmacked! A government issued card, with all of the accompanying proof of id etc.., not acceptable to a credit union!


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## odyssey06 (19 May 2018)

Ludicrous, it's easier to get an EHIC than get a PSC. 
Anyone can make up a payslip. 
The whole exercise is a ticking the box job.


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## PMU (19 May 2018)

emeralds said:


> Was in my local credit union this morning and they asked for updated id. I gave driving licence as photo id and then offered my Public Services Card as proof of PPSN. This was rejected.


Possibly because a credit union is not a specified body under Social Welfare legislation that can ask to see a PSCC .


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## odyssey06 (19 May 2018)

PMU said:


> Possibly because a credit union is not a specified body under Social Welfare legislation that can ask to see a PSCC .



Its probably sth along those lines but I'd be surprised though if they can ask to see a european health insurance card... I mean I would like to be able to avail of medical services in my local CU!


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## WizardDr (29 May 2018)

The saga on the PPSN is unbelievable. A CU needs PPSN now for Revenue & for Central Credit Registry purposes. 

GDPR in Article 5(1)(b) "...collected for specified, explicit and legitimate purposes and not further processed in a manner that is incompatible with those purposes.." and Article 6(1)(c) "processing is necessary for compliance with a legal obligation to which the controller is subject.." seems to say without much of a stretch is a CU have PPSN already they don't need another consent.

Department of Social Protection under instruction from Department of Finance (after being savaged about Irish Water) have insisted the Public Services card *cannot*  be used.  But curiously this means that a letter with the card one receives is correspondence under 6(1)(a) below but the card in the letter is somehow not correspondence.

In any event there is a VIES website where you can already verify Irish VAT Numbers (PPSN with addition of IE) which allows electronic verification- and would seem a simple solution.

However: The Regulations issued by Central Bank of Ireland seem to want a paper verification under SI 488 2016 but sanity prevailed in 6(3) which assumes an electronic method may arrive at some stage.  

"Personal public service or other tax number
6. (1) A credit information provider shall verify an individual’s personal public service number (PPSN) against an original of any of the following
documents—
(a) any *correspondence from the Department of Social Protection* or the Revenue Commissioners addressed to the individual showing the individual’s PPSN,
(b) P21, Tax Assessment or Notice of Tax Credits,
(c) Receipt of Social Welfare Payment,
(d) Medical Card / Drug Payment Scheme (DPS) Card,
(e) Payslip, P60/P45.
(2) If a credit information subject cannot provide any of the documents specified in paragraph (1) the credit information provider may verify a credit information subject’s PPSN using any *other document or process that may reasonably be relied upon for the purpose.*
(3) A credit information provider shall verify any other number allocated to the individual for the purposes of tax against any document that may reasonably be relied upon for the purpose.
(4) In determining the reliability of any document referred to in paragraph
(2) or (3) the credit information provider shall have regard to the following:
(a) the nature of the body by whom the document was issued;
(b) the nature of the document;
(c) whether it might reasonably be expected that the document was issued following checks on the identity of the person.
(5) A credit information provider shall retain a copy of any document used for the purpose of verification under this Regulation for a period of 5 years beginning on the date that the credit information provider is last required by section 11 of the Act of 2013 and any Regulations made thereunder to provide personal information to the Bank in respect of that credit information subject"


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## Elnino (1 Jun 2018)

PMU said:


> Possibly because a credit union is not a specified body under Social Welfare legislation that can ask to see a PSCC .



This is indeed the case. Bank and credit unions are meant to be added as prescribed bodies in a new social welfare bill but don't hold your breath.

Interestingly  the Central Bank can't accept Public Service Cards for identification purposes either for the Central Credit Register for the same reason.
[broken link removed]


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## PMU (1 Jun 2018)

Elnino said:


> This is indeed the case. Bank and credit unions are meant to be added as prescribed bodies in a new social welfare bill but don't hold your breath.


 I can't really see this happening.  The PSC is not a national id card and is related to identification in the provision of a public service. Banks and equivalents do not provide public services.

Those who can ask for a PSC are listed in schedule 5 of the Social Welfare Consolidated Act 2005 as amended http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/eli/2005/act/26/schedule/5/enacted/en/html


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## willyfones (1 Jun 2018)

That seems daft alright,, I wonder is it for practical reasons isn't the PPSN on the back of a Public Service Card? So when they scan it in can they prove they are one and the same?


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## tommyryan55 (6 Jul 2018)

I ran into this issue this morning, very frustrating when I was offering the card as proof of PPSN. Anyway off to print a payslip!


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## Olympian (6 Jul 2018)

Ignore me.


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## dubdub123 (1 Nov 2021)

If its an account for a minor (u16), what do people show as proof of PPSN, that is within 6 months? 
can something be printed from welfare site? I get child benefit for him.


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## 24601 (1 Nov 2021)

dubdub123 said:


> If its an account for a minor (u16), what do people show as proof of PPSN, that is within 6 months?
> can something be printed from welfare site? I get child benefit for him.


The proof of PPSN doesn't have to be dated within 6 months so anything with the PPSN should suffice.


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## jpd (1 Nov 2021)

Anyone with a PC and a printer could produce all of the documents required for anti-money laundering easily enough.


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## 24601 (1 Nov 2021)

jpd said:


> Anyone with a PC and a printer could produce all of the documents required for anti-money laundering easily enough.



You'd be hard pressed to reproduce a passport or driving license with a printer.


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## dubdub123 (1 Nov 2021)

24601 said:


> The proof of PPSN doesn't have to be dated within 6 months so anything with the PPSN should suffice.


Any idea if a document with previous address would be ok? I will have to see if I can find something. I do have the original letter giving me the PPSN for my son when he was born.. wonder would that be ok..


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## Peanuts20 (2 Nov 2021)

it's against the law for a CU to accept the PSC as a means of ID as they are not specified in the Social welfare act as being able to do so. So it is not the CU's fault. Had the Act opened up the PSC as a broader means of ID, I presume the whole debate about a "national ID card" would have kicked off?


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## 24601 (2 Nov 2021)

dubdub123 said:


> Any idea if a document with previous address would be ok? I will have to see if I can find something. I do have the original letter giving me the PPSN for my son when he was born.. wonder would that be ok..



Yes, the document is to evidence the PPSN, which doesn't change (generally), so it doesn't matter when it's dated or what address is on it. The original letter from the Department of Social Protection when your son was born should be accepted.


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## Jim2007 (2 Nov 2021)

jpd said:


> Anyone with a PC and a printer could produce all of the documents required for anti-money laundering easily enough.


Right because we never thought of that when we designed and implemented those systems.... If you seriously think we take you at your word, you are in for a surprise most likely delivered by the Garda.


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