# Elderly people parking in parent & Child Spaces



## liaconn (3 Sep 2010)

A friend of mine with a baby and a toddler has been giving out hell because she saw an elderly couple (she reckons in their 70s)  parkeing in the Parent and Child place beside the door at her local supermarket and she had to park further away and guide the toddler and push the trolley back across the car park. She's saying she 'should have said something to them'. I reckon she should  cop herself on and get over herself.  Am I the only one who thinks she's being unreasonable?


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## Vanilla (3 Sep 2010)

If they did have parking spaces for the elderly, what marking would they put on them? A hunched figure with a walking stick?


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## Boyd (3 Sep 2010)

I see alot of women w/o children parking in them as well. Elderly can be boisterous enough when they want so be careful, they are particularly militant when elbowing you out of the way in a bus queue!


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## Arabella (3 Sep 2010)

A good lawyer could argue that the old woman was a mother and her husband had entered second childhood. Thereby qualifying for these much coveted spots.


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## liaconn (3 Sep 2010)

To be honest, if I'm going shopping after work at around 7pm (when there aren't too many toddlers and babies out and about)  and it's lashing rain I would park in them.


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## Slash (3 Sep 2010)

liaconn said:


> I reckon she should  cop herself on and get over herself.  Am I
> the only one who thinks she's being unreasonable?



Agreed.

On balance, the elderly couple have more to benefit from a priority parking space than your friend, who presumably is younger and fitter.


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## Mrs Vimes (3 Sep 2010)

liaconn said:


> To be honest, if I'm going shopping after work at around 7pm (when there aren't too many toddlers and babies out and about)  and it's lashing rain I would park in them.



My husband once parked in one at 10.30pm in the lashing rain and security guard came over to give him grief.  No sign of any security guard at 11am when I was manhandling 2 toddlers and a baby across the car park past all the adult-only cars parked in the spaces.
I would have no problem with elderly people using them.
Sybil


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## DB74 (3 Sep 2010)

The woman is dead right


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## Purple (3 Sep 2010)

Only spaces for disabled people mean anything. I don't have a problem with old people parking in parent and child spots.


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## SlugBreath (3 Sep 2010)

I approached a parent who had just parked in such a space who then pointed to the child seats in the rear. Sorry, I should say "empty" child seats in the rear.


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## Purple (3 Sep 2010)

Parents usually have buggies for children that can't walk. Children who can walk can walk... I don't see the point.


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## SlurrySlump (3 Sep 2010)

Purple said:


> Parents usually have buggies for children that can't walk. Children who can walk can walk... I don't see the point.


 
I thought the point was that you had a wider parking space so you could swing the door open to get access to the child seat etc.  Having said that has anyone seen the joke mother and child parking spaces in the Merrion Shopping centre.


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## Purple (3 Sep 2010)

SlurrySlump said:


> I thought the point was that you had a wider parking space so you could swing the door open to get access to the child seat etc.  Having said that has anyone seen the joke mother and child parking spaces in the Merrion Shopping centre.



I object to mother and child spaces as I am not allowed to use them when I bring my children to the shops.


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## Marietta (3 Sep 2010)

liaconn said:


> A friend of mine with a baby and a toddler has been giving out hell because she saw an elderly couple (she reckons in their 70s) parkeing in the Parent and Child place beside the door at her local supermarket and she had to park further away and guide the toddler and push the trolley back across the car park. She's saying she 'should have said something to them'. I reckon she should cop herself on and get over herself. Am I the only one who thinks she's being unreasonable?


 

Yes tell her to cop on to herself, givng out about two elderly vulnerable people in their seventies, the exact people who worked so hard for our country and sacrificed so much. This young woman has no idea about sacrifice because it is all about me, me, me. 

Wait till she is 70, I can only imagine what a  a cranky old soul she will be that is if she ever manages to live to that age yet  the years roll by very quickly.  

Honestly I just can't believe what I am reading.


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## Purple (3 Sep 2010)

Marietta said:


> Yes tell her to cop on to herself, givng out about two elderly vulnerable people in their seventies, the exact people who worked so hard for our country and sacrificed so much. This young woman has no idea about sacrifice because it is all about me, me, me.


 How do you know? They might be lazy cheating scroungers who lived off the state all their lives. Maybe it's the taxes paid from the young womans hard earned wages that keeps them in their state pensions?


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## Vanilla (3 Sep 2010)

In our local supermarket we have disabled spots, parent and child spots and spots for pregnant women right outside the supermarket. I imagine the majority of parent and children and pregnant women are much more mobile than elderly people in general so on that basis it doesnt really make much sense. 

Given that my two are no longer babies I never park in the parent and child spots but plenty of people seem to think if they have a child anywhere up to 18 they should be allowed to park there.


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## Marietta (3 Sep 2010)

because we didn't have such great social protection schemes back in those days


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## butterfield (3 Sep 2010)

Totally think mother/baby or pregnant car parking spaces are not necessary, parents with children are young and able to walk, as are their children.   Same for pregnant women they are able bodied.  Have no problem with these spaces being for older less able bodied people.

In fact I have parked in these spaces when it suits me.  Do have children too who are now in their 20's and I managed without this type of parking which was not available then and without a car when they were young.


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## Yachtie (3 Sep 2010)

Before I had a baby, I would have said ' she should cop on to herself'. However, since some idiot parked 6 inches (I kid you not!!!) from my driver door and I had to stand in 23 degrees with a 3 month old (he would have cooked to death if I put him in the car parked in the sun without the aircon on) for about half an hour until she returned (and didn't even bother to say as much as sorry), I try to get into parent and child spaces as I do need to fully open the door to put the baby in and secure him in his seat.

As far as I am concerned, there is a reason why disabled and parent and child spaces are a little bit wider and they should be left for people they are intended for. An old person taking up a parent and child space is not right because a toddler whose mother parked on the other end of the carpark can very easily run in front of a (or behind the reversing) car as his mother is trying to push the trolley, look for the car and control a child at the same time.


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## Joe Q Public (4 Sep 2010)

A good lawyer would argue that none of these made up parking spaces on private land are enforceable.


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## Pique318 (4 Sep 2010)

OP, your friend should have a little more respect, at least until the elderly couple prove that they don't deserve it. Chances are, they are less nimble and less mobile than her. 

Tell her to wind her horns in.


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## SlurrySlump (4 Sep 2010)

Unfortunately a lot of old people see themself as disabled.  I saw them in Woodies in Sandyford during the week parked in the disabled spaces...but well able to carry the large bales of woodchip and mosspeat to their cars.


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## ney001 (4 Sep 2010)

In our supermarket they changed the signs for parent and child parking to parent and infant - mainly because mothers were hopping out of their jeeps into supermarket with teenagers following 

Have to say it really annoys me to see people availing of these spaces and indeed disabled parking spaces when they really don't need them.  People should use their heads, if an elderly person parks in them I have no problem with that, if a mother and infant park there again no problem but if somebody parks there with no kids or indeed teenage kids then I will have a problem with it - mainly because there are limited spaces and somebody could come in later and have to park a good bit away.  

Rule of thumb should be.... if the kid has teeth then you don't need the special parking space! ....... same for the old people if they have their own teeth then they can walk! .... might be a bit hard to enforce though!


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## shammy feen (4 Sep 2010)

I can see a case for an elderly person who may be handicapped in some way using these designated spaces, but as a dad of two small toddlers, it drives me nuts every time I go to Market Green shopping centre in Midleton and see assorted empty nesters in big mercks, delivery vans and young boy/girl racers complete with furry dice parked in the mother and child spaces when theres plenty of room in the car park.

I approached security about it once but got no joy.


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## gabsdot (4 Sep 2010)

Some people would drive into the shop if they could. What's wrong with getting a bit of exercise and walking for 10 seconds more.
However I have small kids and it can be very difficult to get them in and out of the car seat when the car next door is parked too close. This is the main reason I would use a parent and child place if one was free.


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## Joe Q Public (4 Sep 2010)

I would use them all the time. They are unenforceable bits of paint.


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## ophelia (4 Sep 2010)

The older people obviously needed to be nearer the door or they would have parked somewhere else. For God sake, at least the OP has a car to go to the shops with. In the eighties I had three children under three and a half - with no car - and had to walk to the shop, around the shop and home from the shop with a double buggy (laden with bags) and a three and a half year old walking beside me. A bit of exercise is no harm for a young mother and child.


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## MandaC (4 Sep 2010)

ophelia said:


> The older people obviously needed to be nearer the door or they would have parked somewhere else. For God sake, at least the OP has a car to go to the shops with. In the eighties I had three children under three and a half - with no car - and had to walk to the shop, around the shop and home from the shop with a double buggy (laden with bags) and a three and a half year old walking beside me. A bit of exercise is no harm for a young mother and child.



Agree with this.  We never had a car growing up and we were walked to the shop.  They certainly don't need to be near the door unlike the spaces for those with mobility issues.

I do see the benefit of them overall in that they might be wider to allow people take the buggy, children and shopping in and out without damaging someone elses car.  I will never park beside a car with a baby seat in the back for that reason.


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## Staples (4 Sep 2010)

username123 said:


> I see alot of women w/o children parking in them as well.


 
They're the biggest offenders in my experience. Maybe they think that because the spot is reserved for parents with kids, you don't actually have to have your kids _with _you.



Purple said:


> I object to mother and child spaces as I am not allowed to use them when I bring my children to the shops.


 
Maybe it's because it's mothers with children who actually _need_ wider spaces. Perhaps they should use the more politically correct "SUV and children".


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## Pique318 (4 Sep 2010)

Considering the lack of respect that the vast majority of mothers and buggies have on footpaths for others (ie, coming through, so you'd better make way) my sympathy levels for them having to walk poor lickle iddums 100m through a carpark is zero.

I agree with disabled spots, and would be more willing to agree to spots for less mobile elderly people than those who find it 'inconvenient' (ie, parents & kids).


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## Marion (5 Sep 2010)

I think I would also be in favour of parking spots for the disabled and the elderly in preference to any other group.

Marion


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## Purple (5 Sep 2010)

Staples said:


> Maybe it's because it's mothers with children who actually _need_ wider spaces. Perhaps they should use the more politically correct "SUV and children".



No, the parent with the children needs the spot. When I bring my children to do the shopping it seems I'm excluded since I'm their father.

Some women can be very sexist.


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## Staples (5 Sep 2010)

Purple said:


> No, the parent with the children needs the spot. When I bring my children to do the shopping it seems I'm excluded since I'm their father.


 
Maybe you're being excluded because you can negotiate the regular-sized spots.


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## Tinker Bell (5 Sep 2010)

Hey Purple, didn't know you could get a H6 through the car park entrance Have you tried downsizing?


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## haminka1 (5 Sep 2010)

in all honesty, elderly people may sometimes have more difficulties walking than me and my baby - i just put her into her buggy and walk so if an elderly person takes my space, i really don't mind - they have noone to push them in a buggy and if the arthritis or rheuma or simply old age makes it difficult for them to walk than it's better they have the space near the shop and not me.


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## Complainer (5 Sep 2010)

There are quite a lot of older people who manage to get a disabled parking pass (with the connivance of their GP) for no other reason than being a bit old. They often take up disabled parking bays that they don't really need.

The reason for dedicated Parent & Child spaces is not just the extra room needed when opening doors wide, but also to minimise the risk of children being around car parks - never a good mixture. If older folks see a need for dedicated parking spaces, perhaps they'd consider having some discussions with car park operators, rather than just squatting where they like.

But it's not just older folk that abuse these spaces - see http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=67790715&postcount=1498


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## Graham_07 (5 Sep 2010)

Complainer said:


> But it's not just older folk that abuse these spaces - see http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=67790715&postcount=1498



I know that as you get older, Gardaí look younger....but I mean...


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## ice (6 Sep 2010)

If its the wide spaces that are needed for parent and child spaces they should be put further away from the enterance, on say a side wall. There would not be a problem then as the would not be coveted by people without children as they are not right beside the door.

This would seem to solve the problem.

Only disabled spaces should be at the door and shame on anyone who takes one when they are able bodied


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## DB74 (6 Sep 2010)

Joe Q Public said:


> I would use them all the time. They are unenforceable bits of paint.


 
I'd say you are a fantastic person. We really need more of your type in this country. More selfish "couldn't-give-a-****, I'm within my rights, what-are-you-going-to-do-about-it" people is exactly what's required.

Your attitude exemplifies all that is wrong in this country.


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## Joe Q Public (6 Sep 2010)

It is all the moralistic holier than thou do gooders is what is really wrong with this country. 

Why has the government not legislated for these spaces?


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## liaconn (6 Sep 2010)

ice said:


> If its the wide spaces that are needed for parent and child spaces they should be put further away from the enterance, on say a side wall. There would not be a problem then as the would not be coveted by people without children as they are not right beside the door.
> 
> This would seem to solve the problem.
> 
> Only disabled spaces should be at the door and shame on anyone who takes one when they are able bodied


 
I totally agree with this. It might be a bit awkward to keep an eye on a toddler while walking across the car park but most of us have done this without any great trauma.  I think it is a lot more awkward for elderly people with heart problems, arthritis or who are just generally not very strong to cart bags of shopping off to the far distance of the car park so that thirty somethings have the convenience of a space by the door. Extra wide spaces certainly, but why can't they be in the general area of the car park with a trolley bay located near by.


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## DB74 (6 Sep 2010)

@ Joe Q Public

What a load of rubbish - we shouldn't need legislation where common sense and common courtesy would suffice.

How pathetic can you get - _"A good lawyer would argue that none of these made up parking spaces on private land are enforceable"_ and _"I would use them all the time. They are unenforceable bits of paint"_


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## DB74 (6 Sep 2010)

liaconn said:


> I think it is a lot more awkward for elderly people with heart problems, arthritis or who are just generally not very strong to cart bags of shopping off to the far distance of the car park so that thirty somethings have the convenience of a space by the door. Extra wide spaces certainly, but why can't they be in the general area of the car park with a trolley bay located near by.


 
I don't have a problem with wider spaces for parents with children being further from the door but the argument about elderly people doesn't really hold true. Surely if someone has arthritis or heart problems then they can get a disabled sticker and use those designated bays.


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## Caveat (6 Sep 2010)

I haven't really noticed much of what the thread title refers to.

Plenty of *much* more annoying car park shenanigans to get worked up about IMO anyway. As I'm not a parent maybe it's a problem that is a little more off my radar though.


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## liaconn (6 Sep 2010)

DB74 said:


> I don't have a problem with wider spaces for parents with children being further from the door but the argument about elderly people doesn't really hold true. Surely if someone has arthritis or heart problems then they can get a disabled sticker and use those designated bays.


 
It's not that easy to get a disabled sticker. A lot of elderly people have medical issues that wouldn't actually warrant a disability badge but which make it more difficult and tiring for them to get around.


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## Complainer (6 Sep 2010)

ice said:


> If its the wide spaces that are needed for parent and child spaces they should be put further away from the enterance, on say a side wall. There would not be a problem then as the would not be coveted by people without children as they are not right beside the door.
> 
> This would seem to solve the problem.


It would also maximise the risk of having small toddlers around cars in the car park, instead of minimising this risk. Why would you want to maximise this risk?



liaconn said:


> I totally agree with this. It might be a bit awkward to keep an eye on a toddler while walking across the car park but most of us have done this without any great trauma.  I think it is a lot more awkward for elderly people with heart problems, arthritis or who are just generally not very strong to cart bags of shopping off to the far distance of the car park so that thirty somethings have the convenience of a space by the door.


Are they unable to use a trolley?



liaconn said:


> It's not that easy to get a disabled sticker.


Actually, it is quite easy for older people.


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## liaconn (6 Sep 2010)

Complainer said:


> It would also maximise the risk of having small toddlers around cars in the car park, instead of minimising this risk. Why would you want to maximise this risk?
> 
> 
> Are they unable to use a trolley?
> ...


 
Actually, it's not that easy. And, if they are old and a bit feeble or shaky on their feet, a trolley and lifting bags out of it is not exactly a brilliant solution. Also, it's really not that difficult to grab onto a couple of toddlers and negotiate them across the car park. I have done it many times.


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## DB74 (6 Sep 2010)

Well should elderly people not be getting onto the relevant shops to try to get some elderly parking spots instead of taking someone else's? Do you think elderly people should park in disabled parking bays?


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## Latrade (6 Sep 2010)

Is this not an issue of common courtesy? The places are indicated for parent and child, there's a reason why the supermarkets provide them as a need exists and a nice thing to do. 

Not all pensioners are arthritic and on the verge of collapse and we're hardly talking about car parks where they have to walk additional miles if they don't park there, it's a matter of yards. If they're able to walk around the supermarket, then they can add on a couple of yards to that walk. It's not that difficult to manage toddlers and a trolley, fine, it's not that difficult to manage a couple more steps. 

I don't park in those designated spots, even if they're not legally enforceable, mainly because I'm actually ok with driving a bit further on and adding on a few yards to my day. 

Maybe I wouldn’t have been as aggrieved as the individual, but then I still think it’s a poor show of courtesy by the elderly couple. I mean: a handful of spots out of all the ones in the car park and they feel entitled to it just because they’ve passed a certain age. Bully for them, but you don’t get to excuse common courtesy just because you’re over a certain age and find bladder control a bigger task than it used to be.


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## PaddyW (6 Sep 2010)

Jaysus, more crap. Remember these little kiddies you all don't give a flying **** about now will be the ones paying your pensions in years to come!


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## Complainer (6 Sep 2010)

DB74 said:


> Well should elderly people not be getting onto the relevant shops to try to get some elderly parking spots instead of taking someone else's?


That's exactly what I suggested here.


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## sam h (6 Sep 2010)

The parent & child spaces are fairly recent (about 10 years) & I have to say they were a godsend when I had 3 kids under 3......I only had 2 arms and they had no sense!!  

A friend of mine was parked in one & I congratulated her on the new arrival (tongue in cheek) & she got quiet uppidy about how she had "kids" so she was just as intitled to park there (her youngest is 7 & wasn't even with her.  These spaces are there as a courtesy & should be left for those who need them.

I'm surprised there haven't been pensioners on to complain how they are all being portrayed as helpless, fraile, incapable people.  My Uncle is in his late 70's & he plays golf nearly every day & rows for about an hour a day also.  If a pensioners mobilty is so limited that they are not capable of making it into a shop they will be almost certainly be entitled to a disability pass - but many pensioners do not realise this & assume they must be in a wheelchair in order to qualify.  

I always head to the further part of the car park as there is usually loads of spaces & the walk won't do me or my kids any harm


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## DB74 (6 Sep 2010)

Complainer said:


> That's exactly what I suggested here.


 
Good suggestion too!


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## liaconn (6 Sep 2010)

Nobody is objecting to spaces being allocated to parents with babies, just to the fact that they are beside the door, thereby making them inaccessible to everyone else. Sam H I'm glad your uncle is fit in his 70s but what has that go to do with the fact that many elderly people are infirm and the doors beside the entrance should not be made inaccessible for everyone bar young couples with children.


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## purpeller (6 Sep 2010)

DB74 said:


> Surely if someone has arthritis or heart problems then they can get a disabled sticker and use those designated bays.



Actually, it's extremely difficult to get them.  My mother has serious arthritis and both her knees replaced.  The doctor said she wasn't disabled enough.  She can walk much better now with the replaced knees but still needs to open the car door to its full extent so she can swing her legs around.


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## TarfHead (6 Sep 2010)

Latrade said:


> Not all pensioners are arthritic and on the verge of collapse and we're hardly talking about car parks where they have to walk additional miles if they don't park there, it's a matter of yards. If they're able to walk around the supermarket, then they can add on a couple of yards to that walk. It's not that difficult


 
A few years ago, I used to make the effort to get to the gym before work. I'd arrive before 7:30 and notice that most of the disabled and mother and child slots were in use.

The irony of that used to amuse me. People making the effort to go to the gym to improve their fitness and lose weight, yet looking to park as close to the front door as possible so as they don't have too far to walk  !

Back on topic .. elderly people are welcome to do as they choose and I'll never challenge them on it. When I get to that stage, I'll be parking inside the supermarket if I can get away with it  !


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## Yachtie (6 Sep 2010)

ice said:


> If its the wide spaces that are needed for parent and child spaces they should be put further away from the enterance, on say a side wall. There would not be a problem then as the would not be coveted by people without children as they are not right beside the door.
> 
> This would seem to solve the problem.
> 
> Only disabled spaces should be at the door and shame on anyone who takes one when they are able bodied


 
I have no problem with this as I have only one child and am optimistic that I will be able to control him when he starts runing around. If I had three small children, I'd be very worried about getting them and the trolley safely to the far end of the carpark. 



Joe Q Public said:


> Why has the government not legislated for these spaces?


 
And why exactly should everything including parking spaces be regulated by the government? What happened to logic, common sense and some basic courtesy? 



Latrade said:


> Not all pensioners are arthritic and on the verge of collapse and we're hardly talking about car parks where they have to walk additional miles if they don't park there, it's a matter of yards. If they're able to walk around the supermarket, then they can add on a couple of yards to that walk. It's not that difficult to manage toddlers and a trolley, fine, it's not that difficult to manage a couple more steps.
> 
> I don't park in those designated spots, even if they're not legally enforceable, mainly because I'm actually ok with driving a bit further on and adding on a few yards to my day.
> 
> Maybe I wouldn’t have been as aggrieved as the individual, but then I still think it’s a poor show of courtesy by the elderly couple. I mean: a handful of spots out of all the ones in the car park and they feel entitled to it just because they’ve passed a certain age. Bully for them, but you don’t get to excuse common courtesy just because you’re over a certain age and find bladder control a bigger task than it used to be.


 
I agree with this. No issues with the elderly BUT not all of them are that frail and incapable. A person with bad arthritis (or any other condition which would make it impossible for them to walk a few more yards) would not drive a car, regardless of their age. Plus, by using those parent and child spaces, they may be putting their very own grandchildren in danger of being knocked over on the other side of the carpark.


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## liaconn (7 Sep 2010)

Yachtie said:


> I A person with bad arthritis (or any other condition which would make it impossible for them to walk a few more yards) would not drive a car, regardless of their age. Plus, by using those parent and child spaces, they may be putting their very own grandchildren in danger of being knocked over on the other side of the carpark.


 
Not true. Lots of disabled people, never mind people who are frail and elderly but not disabled, rely on cars far more than the rest of us and _*do*_ find it difficult to walk and push a heavy trolley or carry bags of groceries.. I think that's a very unfair comment.


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## Purple (7 Sep 2010)

+1 Liaconn


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## Firefly (7 Sep 2010)

I think these parent & child spaces are just a way for the shopping centres to be "nice" to certain people - a bit of clever marketing if you will. Before they existed the car parks were still full and I don't recall any major issues. There are no parent & child spaces in multi-stories, where spaces are tight, and none on the on-street spaces. If there's one free when I've my kids it's a bonus, if not then I won't fret.

A much bigger gripe with me is people parking in disabled spots who clearly don't need them.


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## di74 (7 Sep 2010)

Think that parent & child parking is a godsend trying to get a child into a carseat you need extra space. They don't however have to be right beside the door of the shop, these should be left for disabled spaces. Wouldn't mind a pregnancy parking space though  find it more difficult to get myself out at 8 months pregnant than a squirming 2 year old.


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## xeresod (7 Sep 2010)

Just wait until this (drive-though Tesco) comes over here and other shops join in - parking problems solved once and for all!


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## cork (7 Sep 2010)

The OAPs may not be that active & may deserve places close to the shop


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## micmclo (7 Sep 2010)

xeresod said:


> Just wait until this (drive-though Tesco) comes over here and other shops join in - parking problems solved once and for all!



That's a great system they have there
Only a matter of time before it's rolled out across Ireland


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## ice (7 Sep 2010)

Complainer said:


> Why would you want to maximise this risk?
> 
> 
> .


 
It would not have to maximise the risk. Like I said they could be put on a side wall at the top of the row with a walkway to the front of the store or to the nearest pathway.

Like a previous poster said most babies/toddlers would be in a buggy anyway.

I have 3 children and have used the parent and child spaces when they were small. It was for the wider spaces and it was a nice perk to be beside the door. On the many occasions I could not get one of those spaces it was no huge hardship.


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## Complainer (7 Sep 2010)

ice said:


> Like a previous poster said most babies/toddlers would be in a buggy anyway.


It is quite rare to see a buggy in a supermarket. Those that are there are usually from people who have walked to the supermarket. No-one is going to unpack a buggy from a car boot, use it to get into the supermarket, and the push a buggy AND a trolley around the shop.


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## Yachtie (7 Sep 2010)

Complainer said:


> It is quite rare to see a buggy in a supermarket. Those that are there are usually from people who have walked to the supermarket. No-one is going to unpack a buggy from a car boot, use it to get into the supermarket, and the push a buggy AND a trolley around the shop.


 
This is so true! There is no keeping everyone happy - when a parent puts a child into the trolley (one reason *could* be to make the passage to the car safer for everyone), people complain about child's shoes dirtying a trolley in which they put their food. If a parent parks close to the door, those without children object to the convenience which 'parent and child' spaces are. If a parent uses a regular space further down and bashes bejayzus out of somebody else's door (not intentionally) while trying to secure a child in the carseat, everyone jumps to arms. 

No one has yet explained what are parents with small children expected to do in carparks.


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## PetrolHead (8 Sep 2010)

Relevant...

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...undeserving-shoppers-unfairly-hog-spaces.html


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## liaconn (8 Sep 2010)

Yachtie said:


> This is so true! There is no keeping everyone happy - when a parent puts a child into the trolley (one reason *could* be to make the passage to the car safer for everyone), people complain about child's shoes dirtying a trolley in which they put their food. If a parent parks close to the door, those without children object to the convenience which 'parent and child' spaces are. If a parent uses a regular space further down and bashes bejayzus out of somebody else's door (not intentionally) while trying to secure a child in the carseat, everyone jumps to arms.
> 
> No one has yet explained what are parents with small children expected to do in carparks.


 
No one is objecting to you having wide spaces. And there is a seat in trollies for very small children or babies.


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## DB74 (8 Sep 2010)

liaconn said:


> And there is a seat in trollies for very small children or babies.


 
The point that is trying to be made is that you could have to get 2-3 small kids through a busy car-park, even to get to the trolleys. The more car park that these kids have to toddle through, the more dangerous it is.


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## liaconn (8 Sep 2010)

DB74 said:


> The point that is trying to be made is that you could have to get 2-3 small kids through a busy car-park, even to get to the trolleys. The more car park that these kids have to toddle through, the more dangerous it is.


 
I did say in an early post that extra wide spaces should be made available in the general area of the car park and beside a trolley bay. Apart from anything else you can't unload your shopping and then leave your kids alone in the car while you return your trolley. But these spaces should not be taking up all of the area near the door when there are other people who also need these spaces. Mothers with kids do not trump everyone else.


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## Firefly (8 Sep 2010)

liaconn said:


> I did say in an early post that extra wide spaces should be made available in the general area of the car park and beside a trolley bay. Apart from anything else you can't unload your shopping and then leave your kids alone in the car while you return your trolley. But these spaces should not be taking up all of the area near the door when there are other people who also need these spaces. Mothers with kids do not trump everyone else.


 
+1 (as a parent with 2 kids)


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## Purple (8 Sep 2010)

liaconn said:


> I did say in an early post that extra wide spaces should be made available in the general area of the car park and beside a trolley bay. Apart from anything else you can't unload your shopping and then leave your kids alone in the car while you return your trolley. But these spaces should not be taking up all of the area near the door when there are other people who also need these spaces.


 I agree.



liaconn said:


> Mothers with kids do not trump everyone else.


 or even fathers with kids.


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## Latrade (8 Sep 2010)

liaconn said:


> Mothers with kids do not trump everyone else.


 
Neither do people just because they've passed a certain age irrespective of how able they are. 

It's just a nice thing the supermarkets/shops have done for a particular group of people in order to ease the burden of getting kids in and out a car and the potential of having kids walking through car parks. Yes you can control kids most of the time, but then they only have to slip away for a second. And then there's the drivers in car parks who don't exactly pay attention to the level crossings and pedestrians (but then I suppose those aren't legally enforceable either). So they provided them to be nice and add some aspect of convenience for those with young kids. Those few less yards to the entrance really are such a sacrifice for the rest of us.

Those elderly people who have an issue with mobility and really can't physically manage the additional couple of yards on top of walking around a supermarket have an issue with their doctors if they can't get a disability pass, not decide that they take priority over a space set aside for someone else. They should be old enough to know that the cheapest thing on this planet is common courtesy.


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## liaconn (14 Sep 2010)

Latrade said:


> Neither do people just because they've passed a certain age irrespective of how able they are.
> 
> It's just a nice thing the supermarkets/shops have done for a particular group of people in order to ease the burden of getting kids in and out a car and the potential of having kids walking through car parks.


 
But that's the point, Latrade. They are being nice to one group of people at the expense of another. Why reserve them for anyone (apart from disabled of course) I remember staying with friends in America andthere was  a sign beside some spaces near the supermarket door saying something like 'we would respectfully request that these spaces be left available for those who need them'.  Obviously some people ignored the sign but most people didn't and there was no resentment about one group of people getting them at the expense of another.


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## Yachtie (15 Sep 2010)

liaconn said:


> But that's the point, Latrade. They are being nice to one group of people at the expense of another. Why reserve them for anyone (apart from disabled of course) I remember staying with friends in America andthere was a sign beside some spaces near the supermarket door saying something like 'we would respectfully request that these spaces be left available for those who need them'. Obviously some people ignored the sign but most people didn't and there was no resentment about one group of people getting them at the expense of another.


 
I wonder if you would feel differently if a toddler (short and swift as they are) slipped away from a parent and you knocked him / her over when reversing out of a parking space.

I am by no means militant about parent and child places in terms of their existence and location, but them being where they are really make carparks safer for everyone and just a tiny bit more convenient for parents. I saw a grown woman getting nearly knocked over by a huge reversing SUV, it scares me to think what would happen to a child. Furthermore, I have no issues with old people either but as much as it may be a little bit harder for them to walk accross, at least they know what they are doing and are able to look after themelves.


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## Complainer (15 Sep 2010)

liaconn said:


> But that's the point, Latrade. They are being nice to one group of people at the expense of another.


Absolutely not 'at the expense of another'. This is a common tactic used to divide and conquer. P&C facilities are not at the expense of anyone. It is well within the power of any supermarket to provide P&C facilities, and disabled parking facilities, AND facilities for older people if these are required.


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## Purple (15 Sep 2010)

Complainer said:


> Absolutely not 'at the expense of another'. This is a common tactic used to divide and conquer. P&C facilities are not at the expense of anyone. It is well within the power of any supermarket to provide P&C facilities, and disabled parking facilities, AND facilities for older people if these are required.



Yep, they can just fight it out between themselves for the spots outside the door.


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## haminka1 (15 Sep 2010)

Complainer said:


> It is quite rare to see a buggy in a supermarket. Those that are there are usually from people who have walked to the supermarket. No-one is going to unpack a buggy from a car boot, use it to get into the supermarket, and the push a buggy AND a trolley around the shop.



Complainer, actually I do that. Unpack the rather heavy buggy, use it to get to the supermarket and put the shopping into the basket underneath the buggy. I hate the trolleys for children because I don't consider them safe and hygienic /and no, I'm not wrapping my child in a cling film so that it's protected from germs and we happily live in the house with our cat, so I'm not obsessed with hygiene/. I use online shopping for my weekly shopping though and only go to the supermarket to buy fresh stuff which online shopping is horrendous for.


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## Firefly (16 Sep 2010)

Yachtie said:


> I wonder if you would feel differently if a toddler (short and swift as they are) slipped away from a parent and you knocked him / her over when reversing out of a parking space.
> ./QUOTE]
> 
> Could this not happen in town, leaving mass, in a multi-story, leaving a school or just about anywhere where there is a congragation of people?


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## Yachtie (16 Sep 2010)

Firefly said:


> Yachtie said:
> 
> 
> > I wonder if you would feel differently if a toddler (short and swift as they are) slipped away from a parent and you knocked him / her over when reversing out of a parking space.
> ...


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## csirl (16 Sep 2010)

On the legal front, shopping centres, as private property, are fully entitled to eject or bar anyone who parks in a space that the shopping centre has set aside for another type of customer.

There are some of these spaces in my local Tesco, but, even though there are security guards on patrol, they never enforce the rules. You frequently see people without kids in these spaces. Even worse, you often see commerical vehicles i.e. mini-vans, pick-ups etc. parked in these spaces. There should be more enforcement by the shopping centres.

I've shopped with young children, and sometimes you need one of these spaces. Especially if you've a young toddler, who isnt sure on feet yet, or a baby. People who dont need these spaces shouldnt use them full stop. If I'm shopping without kids, I'd never use one of these spots. 

And its not just these spaces - in my local shopping centre, unauthorised people also park in the disabled spots and the taxi set-down area. Pure ignorance.


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## liaconn (16 Sep 2010)

Complainer said:


> Absolutely not 'at the expense of another'. This is a common tactic used to divide and conquer. P&C facilities are not at the expense of anyone. It is well within the power of any supermarket to provide P&C facilities, and disabled parking facilities, AND facilities for older people if these are required.


 
Yes, but they don't and bar elderly people from parking at the door in order to facilitate parents with children.

yachtie, as someone else suggested provide the spaces further away with a pathway to the supermarket. Or, as I suggested, don't reserve spaces for either group just request that shoppers be considerate and only take these spaces if they need to be near the door.


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## DB74 (16 Sep 2010)

liaconn said:


> Or, as I suggested, don't reserve spaces for either group just request that shoppers be considerate and only take these spaces if they need to be near the door.


 
The spaces are actually marked for parents with children and others still park in them so why do you think unmarked spaces will be left free for those who need them. Most people don't give 2 hoots about others, especially when it comes to driving issues, which is why the spaces have to be marked in the first place. There's no chance if there is merely a sign up requesting people to be considerate.

While I appreciate that some elderly people could do with being closer to the front door, that is no excuse for taking up a space which is specifically marked for parents with children.

When I was younger, elderly people had a lot more respect for those spaces than they do nowadays.


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## liaconn (16 Sep 2010)

The people who ignore p&c places will ignore signs asking you not to park in the space if you don't need it. The people who respect them willl also respect the other sign. The difference is that elderly people who find it difficult to walk too far will be as entitled to use these spaces as parents who find it difficult to manage several small children in the car park. Therefore, one group isn't being favoured over another. The spaces are left for 'people who need them'.


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## corkgal (17 Sep 2010)

Its about:
access to the side door of the car to safely strap in toddler/ baby
safe route to walk to the center (not crossing traffic with toddler)
space at back to get out buggy

Old people have different needs, like level access for frames, clear marking on foot paths etc. Car parks are very badly designed in general.


They are there to draw lucrative custom from families. Old people tend to spend less so they don't get much consideration


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## NOAH (23 Sep 2010)

As an outsider I often wondered where the irish psyche lay in relation to just good manners and the posts above have saddened me greatly. The spaces are marked for enfant and driver so tough if it is not for you. And the numbers who are not disabled that use disabled spaces is absolutely shocking. When I see a person doing so I wont tell you what I wish on them.

The same applies when driving and not indicating or using the wrong lane at roundabouts and cutting in, driving wrong way in car parks ie against the directional arrows and I have seen this behaviour in muti storey car parks as well. There is a well known car park on the flat in limerick and behaviour is so bad the exits and entrances to parking lanes have had to be blocked off.

Its sad but true a lot of irish people have no respect for others or for normal behaviours and our driving styles confirm that. It seems to be a norm to go where a sign says NO ENTRY.

And we wonder why we are in the mire.

noa-

ps I have a vested interest,  I am elderly,  bad hips, not very mobile but I am considerate and would not even contemplate parking in a space dedicated for someone more deserving.


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## pixiebean22 (23 Sep 2010)

_"Its sad but true a lot of irish people have no respect for others or for normal behaviours"  -  _You could say this about any nationality.


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## MrMan (23 Sep 2010)

NOAH said:


> As an outsider I often wondered where the irish psyche lay in relation to just good manners and the posts above have saddened me greatly. The spaces are marked for enfant and driver so tough if it is not for you. And the numbers who are not disabled that use disabled spaces is absolutely shocking. When I see a person doing so I wont tell you what I wish on them.
> 
> The same applies when driving and not indicating or using the wrong lane at roundabouts and cutting in, driving wrong way in car parks ie against the directional arrows and I have seen this behaviour in muti storey car parks as well. There is a well known car park on the flat in limerick and behaviour is so bad the exits and entrances to parking lanes have had to be blocked off.
> 
> ...



It seems to be a lazy criticism that gets bandied about now and again. The 'Irish phsche' and 'typical Irish' are general statements that seem to omit every other nation as somehow superior in attitude. Try driving in other countries, getting a bus in other countries etc and you might just realise that rude people exist all over the world. If you would wish terrible things on someone for parking in a disabled spot then that says more about you really, why not wish that they became more understanding? TBH whenever I'm parking it regularly seems to be the case that its only the disabled spots that are still free so at least in this part of Ireland people are obeying this particular rule.


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## Yachtie (23 Sep 2010)

Things such as consideration for others and common courtesy seem to have completely disappeared. That's what really is our problem and applies to so many things, not just flippin' parking spaces at the supermarket!


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## Purple (24 Sep 2010)

pixiebean22 said:


> _"Its sad but true a lot of irish people have no respect for others or for normal behaviours"  -  _You could say this about any nationality.



No you couldn't. The Americans wouldn't do it, the Germans wouldn't do it. I'm sure there are some other who would but why don't we aspire to be like the best?


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## pixiebean22 (24 Sep 2010)

Purple said:


> No you couldn't. The Americans wouldn't do it, the Germans wouldn't do it. I'm sure there are some other who would but why don't we aspire to be like the best?


 
So there is not a single American/German who would do this?

There are *plenty *of people living in Ireland who don't.


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## Purple (24 Sep 2010)

pixiebean22 said:


> So there is not a single American/German who would do this?
> 
> There are *plenty *of people living in Ireland who don't.



I took it that everyone posting understood that the points were made in general terms.


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## DB74 (24 Sep 2010)

Purple said:


> I took it that everyone posting understood that the points were made in general terms.


 
That's a bit of a generalisation isn't it?!!!


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## Purple (24 Sep 2010)

DB74 said:


> That's a bit of a generalisation isn't it?!!!



I hate people who generalise.


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## csirl (24 Sep 2010)

Purple said:


> No you couldn't. The Americans wouldn't do it, the Germans wouldn't do it. I'm sure there are some other who would but why don't we aspire to be like the best?


 
I think the fact that Americans and Germans wouldnt do it is more down to effective policing in those countries. If you parked in a disabled space in Germany would you expect to get away with it?


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## DB74 (24 Sep 2010)

csirl said:


> I think the fact that Americans and Germans wouldnt do it is more down to effective policing in those countries. If you parked in a disabled space in Germany would you expect to get away with it?


 
Both those countries have a lot of National and Civic Pride which is more to do with it IMO.

*In general* we don't have that in Ireland.


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## Yachtie (28 Sep 2010)

DB74 said:


> Both those countries have a lot of National and Civic Pride which is more to do with it IMO.
> 
> *In general* we don't have that in Ireland.


 
Yeah, we have over-inflated sense of self-importance and entitlement. In general.


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## callybags (28 Sep 2010)

We need the army to patrol the supermarket car parks.

Give the generals something to do.


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## Purple (28 Sep 2010)

Just make it legal to vandalise illegally parked cars.


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## DB74 (28 Sep 2010)

Purple said:


> Just make it legal to vandalise illegally parked cars.


 
LOL - I'd vote for Satan himself if he brought that law in.

First up, cars which take up 2 spaces in car-parks


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