# Can a child sue others child’s parent for assault by their little darling?



## Winnie1 (13 Oct 2020)

Ongoing bullying issue.  Have finally caught them on cctv assaulting my son - can we go after the parents for compensation for my son.  
Don’t even care about the money - we’ll give it away.  Sick of dealing with parents who don’t give a damn what their kids do and guards who have to give them 47 chances!


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## Thirsty (13 Oct 2020)

Has your child suffered an injury requiring medical treatment?


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## Winnie1 (13 Oct 2020)

Not immediate medical treatment - im sure it will present itself as a mental health issue in years to come given he’s endured years of humiliation, isolation, exclusion, assault, theft, and intimidation.  He’s started in a new school this year and they’ve come after him again.
 The spotted him out with a new group of friends - banged the jungle drums and 20 appeared out of thin air to hold him captive for half an hour terrorising him and assaulting him.  Do kids have any legal rights?? Can I get a batting order, protective order etc for my son or are children left to endure?


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## Branz (13 Oct 2020)

the CCTV may be inadmissible if not collected properly.
Have you shown it to the guards?


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## Winnie1 (13 Oct 2020)

Not yet it’s a precessional set up and very good quality. But sure the kids laugh at the guards and wear it as a badge of honour.  Guards have been before and lads still out running amok


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## Thirsty (13 Oct 2020)

You need to ask yourself what do you want to achieve.

Your child has, thankfully, not suffered an injury or required treatment. This is not to take away from the terror of bullying and the impact it has. But compensation for financial loss cannot be established clearly and you also don't know  the liklihood of getting any actual payment from the other child's family.

I think what you, naturally, want is to protect your child. 

Will injunctions work? Can you identify the children and their addresses? Injunctions are only of value if they can be enforced and you don't appear to have confidence in your local Garda?


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## Winnie1 (14 Oct 2020)

Thanks for your reply.  I want the boys to leave my son alone.  It’s not the guards fault, their hands appear to be tied.  I’ll have a look into injunctions thank you.  My son doesn’t want us to do anything as he thinks it will make things worse - but things are getting worse each time anyway.


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## Branz (14 Oct 2020)

Branz said:


> the CCTV may be inadmissible if not collected properly.
> Have you shown it to the guards?


OP, my question about showing to the guards is to see if they think it its admissible.
You might want to read this.








						Search | Data Protection Commission
					

We are the national independent authority responsible for upholding the fundamental right of the individual in the EU to have their personal data protected.




					www.dataprotection.ie
				




Its a mine field from the privacy rights of the perp perspective


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## WizardDr (14 Oct 2020)

If you are unafraid of the consequences and do not mind publicity and a bit of work:

Link at end
*Summons issued following complaints from private individuals*

​Summons issued under the Petty Sessions (Ireland) Act 1851 are used in private prosecutions, for example, where people are having difficulty with their neighbours.
​The complainant goes before a District Court judge and makes the complaint either orally or in writing. The judge decides if the complainant needs to make the complaint under oath.
​The complainant should provide the following information:
​
 
The name and address of the alleged offender 
 
The name and address of the complainant 
 
The basic facts of the alleged offence, including when it is alleged to    have taken place 
 
The piece of legislation which applies to the offence, if possible

​The judge reviews this information and decides if it justifies a summons. If the judge issues a summons the alleged offender will have to appear at a sitting of the court. This process is rarely used by the Gardaí.



Link here https://www.citizensinformation.ie/en/justice/criminal_law/criminal_trial/summons.html#​


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## DeeKie (14 Oct 2020)

You can take civil legal action against the parents of minors but it’s not an easy route. You’d be better served challenging the decision not to prosecute in my view. Your best bet is the criminal law route.

Make sure you keep a record of all communications with the Gardai, make them aware of your unhappiness about lack of action and make them aware of your record keeping (confirmation by email/ letter). All in writing. I cannot emphasise this enough. I would this by creating a record of the events, including historical events (whether or not reported), reports made to the Gardai and the impacts on your son. Physical bullying is technically a battery, verbal is an assault. Don’t be afraid to make the Gardai aware of this. I’d also ask a solicitor to write to the Gardai on your behalf.

Talk to your community liaison Garda too.
Good luck. Your poor son. And poor you. You are doing your best for him.


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## Laughahalla (15 Oct 2020)

Have you actually talked to these children's parents? What did they say?
I know if I found out my child was a bully I would deal with it straight away. Is it possible their parents don't know.

If you have spoken with them and they're not interested in resolving it tell them you will be going down the legal route if it happens once more.

If you really want to pursue it you will need to make it clear to the guards that you want them charged with assault and or other charges.
If you go down this route then you will have to convince your son to give evidence in court.

If you just casually make the guards aware of it nothing will happen. They'll just fob you off.


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## Purple (15 Oct 2020)

Winnie1 said:


> Ongoing bullying issue.  Have finally caught them on cctv assaulting my son - can we go after the parents for compensation for my son.
> Don’t even care about the money - we’ll give it away.  Sick of dealing with parents who don’t give a damn what their kids do and guards who have to give them 47 chances!


Horrible situation. The impact of that sort of bullying can be live changing. The sense of powerlessness is overwhelming.


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## Acorn22 (15 Oct 2020)

Sorry to hear what your son and you have been going through.  Have these kids been bullying anyone else around?  Are the parents of these kids generally difficult to other neighbours?  If so, you might be able to group together with other neighbours and submit several reports to gardai and community gardai officer.  There is strength in numbers.  Also just encourage your son to protect himself when outside.  He may have to do what he has to do to protect his mind and body.  This way he will not feel as disempowered.  I know that David Coleman (child psycholgist) encourages this especially for those kids who keep bullying another child.  Role play is good too.  Show your child some appropriate sportsmen protecting themsevles on the field/pitch when getting physically attacked in a game.  You will notice they rarely walk away without protecting themselves first. However if there is a group of kids and he is on his own I would not let him outside and if possible consider moving house unless the bully's parents are reasonable and are open to a conversation.


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## blanketyblank (15 Oct 2020)

Bullying has an awful effect on the victim.   I would suggest as you've already spoken to the Gardai that a visit to the parents of the ringleaders would be worthwhile.   Go there in a cool calm manner and explain what has been happening and ask them to speak to their children so that this can stop. I'd do this regardless of whether they're reasonable people or not.   Keep calm.If after initial contact it doesnt stop go back again and in the same courteous manner say it all again, and that it hasn't stopped.  Finally say that if it continues you'll be forced to contact social services as there must be something wrong with a child who behaves in that way.  Youd prefer not to of course but would feel obliged to. All done very sweetly of course.  Might just do the TRICK.  No one wants a complaint to social services.


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## Up Rovers (15 Oct 2020)

DireTrouble1234 said:


> Bullying has an awful effect on the victim.   I would suggest as you've already spoken to the Gardai that a visit to the parents of the ringleaders would be worthwhile.   Go there in a cool calm manner and explain what has been happening and ask them to speak to their children so that this can stop. I'd do this regardless of whether they're reasonable people or not.   Keep calm.If after initial contact it doesnt stop go back again and in the same courteous manner say it all again, and that it hasn't stopped.  Finally say that if it continues you'll be forced to contact social services as there must be something wrong with a child who behaves in that way.  Youd prefer not to of course but would feel obliged to. All done very sweetly of course.  Might just do the TRICK.  No one wants a complaint to social services.



HiDireTrouble1234,

Sorry to say I would totally disagree with a few of your points as I feel it could turn nasty.

I don't think a visit to the parents is a good idea at all.

Telling the parents of the main culprit 'that there must be something wrong with a child who behaves in that way' will only wind them up further.    Don't forget the expression, monkey see, monkey do, probably wouldn't be too far off the mark here and these children may well have learnt their behaviour from their parents.


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## Acorn22 (16 Oct 2020)

Up Rovers said:


> HiDireTrouble1234,
> 
> Sorry to say I would totally disagree with a few of your points as I feel it could turn nasty.
> 
> ...


Totally agree.


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## Thirsty (19 Nov 2020)

PatrickSmithUS said:


> Your family solicitor will be able to advise you on this but I can't can't see any reason if you can prove that it happened and that your child suffered a personal injury (physical or mental) due to the assault. There was a case last week of a family suing their child's granny in relation to a dog attack that left horrific injuries. Might be of interest.


Although the civil action names the grandmother as the owner, it is the house insurance liability cover that is the point of the action.

The injuries to the child and medical costs were clear and definable.

I'm not certain that is the case with the OP.


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## dereko1969 (20 Nov 2020)

PatrickSmithUS said:


> Your family solicitor will be able to advise you on this but I can't can't see any reason if you can prove that it happened and that your child suffered a personal injury (physical or mental) due to the assault. There was a case last week of a family suing their child's granny in relation to a dog attack that left horrific injuries. Might be of interest.


That website is so depressing, the spurious claims being settled left, right and centre. Is it any wonder our insurance costs are so high.


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## DublinHead54 (20 Nov 2020)

Can you go to the school?


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## deco87 (21 Nov 2020)

Had a similar situation where the father Egged on the kids . On seeing one of his sons give my lad a serious kick to the stomach I said to the kid not to do that again, the father verbally abused me , his thing was “ sure it’s only kids playing “ guards have to allow numerous “chances”as they are bound by regulations to do so. I sold up , peace of mind , worth it.
mess never going to end ... jaded huge problems for everyone living in the road.
drastic I know , life is short and peace of mind and stress free . Was worth it , never looked back


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## deco87 (21 Nov 2020)

kingvagabond said:


> Sorry to hear what your son and you have been going through.  Have these kids been bullying anyone else around?  Are the parents of these kids generally difficult to other neighbours?  If so, you might be able to group together with other neighbours and submit several reports to gardai and community gardai officer.  There is strength in numbers.  Also just encourage your son to protect himself when outside.  He may have to do what he has to do to protect his mind and body.  This way he will not feel as disempowered.  I know that David Coleman (child psycholgist) encourages this especially for those kids who keep bullying another child.  Role play is good too.  Show your child some appropriate sportsmen protecting themsevles on the field/pitch when getting physically attacked in a game.  You will notice they rarely walk away without protecting themselves first. However if there is a group of kids and he is on his own I would not let him outside and if possible consider moving house unless the bully's parents are reasonable and are open to a conversation.


Sensible advice ( unfortunately it’s harsh but a remedy)


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## phoenix53 (21 Nov 2020)

Is he sporty?  Even if he is not, I would recommend Taekwondo or any type martial art.  Not for the damage he can do to others, but to build his self esteem and self confidence, learn how to deal with conflict ,   while at the same time gaining the knowledge that he can defend himself physically if he has to.  A life time skill both physically and mentally.


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## mallow (17 Dec 2020)

Move house. This is the kind of country we live in now. Most people are unaware of it until it hits them personally. If you did try to sue the parents, or the Guards shocked everyone by prosecuting the brats, let's just say those parents will not be happy with you and this could get a lot worse for your whole family. 

Martial arts training is a great idea for his confidence, but it won't help anyone with gangs that attack 20 on 1.


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## Leo (14 Jan 2021)

PatrickSmithUS said:


> Now that will definitely end up in compensation claim or criminal conviction.



Being trained in self-defence isn't a crime. The reputable clubs will educate on the use of force as a last resort when deescalation and conflict avoidance techniques fail.


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## phoenix53 (19 Jan 2021)

I remember being a bystander at a taekwondo class my son was participating in.  The master asked the group, if you saw a potentially dangerous situation beginning to evolve where you could get hurt, what would you do?  The children said, I would do this kick and that hold and so on.  He just looked at them and said to them, no, what you do is, get to hell out of there as quick as you can.  That must have been 17 years ago and it still sticks with me.  No martial art advocates violence.  It's all about discipline.


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## PaddyBloggit (25 Jan 2021)

PatrickSmithUS said:


> They told her to learn how to sprint.


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## Winnie1 (15 Mar 2021)

Update: boys got a JLO for violent disorder.       The fact it was an organised and premeditated attack I think.  My son hasn’t left the house in months.


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## Northie (15 Mar 2021)

Winnie1 said:


> My son hasn’t left the house in months.


Well done for pushing on this, but my heart breaks with this line. 

As a parent I'm hoping I help my kids to be the best people they can be, enjoy great experiences and learn from the bad. Its soul destroying when it feels like something outside of your control tears all that down.

While my son hasn't experienced what yours has, he has had a really tough, emotionally challenging time that for a long time "trapped" him at home in his own head. I worried, a lot, that he wouldn't get through it but time helps (its a cliche for a reason) - as does getting good support for you (parents) and, when he's ready, for him. 

It may mean little now but I do think in the long run he will recognise that you didn't back away from this fight and saw it through. Hopefully when you and he look back on a long life this is only one short blip, and trust me I know it doesn't feel like a blip now. 

Small steps, good support, new targets. By new targets I mean you have to let go of all the what ifs - if this hadn't happened, he'd be doing so well, he'd be out, socialising etc. Look for small wins for both him and you, because you have both been through hell - but its does get better.


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## Thirsty (15 Mar 2021)

PatrickSmithUS said:


> I remember being in college and one of the girls in our house went to learn karate and she told them she wanted to improve her self defence. They told her to learn how to sprint.


How does anyone think this is funny?


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## SPC100 (15 Mar 2021)

Winnie1 said:


> Update: boys got a JLO for violent disorder.       The fact it was an organised and premeditated attack I think.  My son hasn’t left the house in months.


 The first half of your post is great news.

Have you ruled out moving home?


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## MelF (15 Mar 2021)

Thirsty said:


> How does anyone think this is funny?


I thought the same. *Hilarious* - unless you're a girl...


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## Winnie1 (15 Mar 2021)

SPC100 said:


> The first half of your post is great news.
> 
> Have you ruled out moving home


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## Purple (16 Mar 2021)

MelF said:


> I thought the same. *Hilarious* - unless you're a girl...


I think the point is that avoiding a fight is better than winning it.

As a man I have never found my ego is so fragile that I need to validate my masculinity every time someone becomes aggressive. Therefore I have always tried to back away from confrontation. Flight rather than fight is usually the best option.


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## Winnie1 (16 Mar 2021)

Not considering moving, my son has a hidden disability which most neurotypical people don’t understand so he’s likely to be bullied regularly during his lifetime.  If we move house it’s likely another a$$hole will feel the need to spend his time telling my son how $hit he is


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## Thirsty (16 Mar 2021)

Purple said:


> I think the point is that avoiding a fight is better than winning it.
> 
> As a man I have never found my ego is so fragile that I need to validate my masculinity every time someone becomes aggressive. Therefore I have always tried to back away from confrontation. Flight rather than fight is usually the best option.


The 'anecdote' was told in regards to a *woman *who wanted to learn* self-defence*. 

correction: now that I read @PatrickSmithUS post again, I see the reference was in fact to a child, which makes even more objectionable.

The 'run-away' comment was not remotely funny; but the responses here clearly reflect the completely different reality women face.


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## Leo (16 Mar 2021)

Thirsty said:


> The 'run-away' comment was not remotely funny; but the responses here clearly reflect the completely different reality women face.



The subject here is assault, and men make up ~60% of the victims of attempts/threats to murder, assaults, harassments and related offences.


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## Purple (16 Mar 2021)

Thirsty said:


> The 'run-away' comment was not remotely funny; but the responses here clearly reflect the completely different reality women face.


I don't think the run away comment was meant to be funny. It's just good advice.


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## Thirsty (16 Mar 2021)

Purple said:


> I don't think the run away comment was meant to be funny. It's just good advice.


For who?


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## Thirsty (16 Mar 2021)

Leo said:


> The subject here is assault, and men make up ~60% of the victims of attempts/threats to murder, assaults, harassments and related offences.


Can you provide validated data which includes the gender of the perpetrator?

Even the CSO adds caveats to the Garda Pulse data it reports.


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## Purple (16 Mar 2021)

Thirsty said:


> For who?


For anyone.


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## Purple (16 Mar 2021)

Thirsty said:


> Can you provide validated data which includes the gender of the perpetrator?
> 
> Even the CSO adds caveats to the Garda Pulse data it reports.


Women are 5 times more likely to be s_xually assaulted than men.
They are 10 times more likely to me raped.
Men do all the raping; it is not possible under law for a woman to rape a man. (That means that if a sober man has sex with a drunk woman he can be raping her but if a sober woman has sex with aa drunk man she is not raping him.)

In a heterosexual relationship 60% of domestic violence is men on women, 40% is women on men, but men are far more likely to kill their partner. Women in a same sex relationship are at the greatest risk of domestic violence.

Men are 1.5 times more likely to be victims of violent crime than women in Ireland.

Source for Irish stats here.


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## Thirsty (16 Mar 2021)

Purple said:


> For anyone.


And you believe that women would otherwise stand and fight & not get away?


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## Purple (16 Mar 2021)

Thirsty said:


> And you believe that women would otherwise stand and fight & not get away?


I'm not sure what you're asking me.


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## Thirsty (16 Mar 2021)

Purple said:


> Source for Irish stats here.


You need to include the caveat

"These statistics are categorised as Under Reservation. This categorisation indicates that the quality of these statistics do not meet the standards required of official statistics published by the CSO".


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## Purple (16 Mar 2021)

Thirsty said:


> You need to include the caveat
> 
> "These statistics are categorised as Under Reservation. This categorisation indicates that the quality of these statistics do not meet the standards required of official statistics published by the CSO".


There are plenty of global statistics which show similar figures. 
I'm just offering some statistics to back up an earlier post.
I'm certainly not suggesting that sexual violence is not massively more of an issue for women than men, and when it is an issue for men it's nearly always other men perpetrating the abuse, but the gender divide in the broader discussion about domestic abuse is certainly less strikingly obvious.


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## Leo (16 Mar 2021)

Thirsty said:


> Can you provide validated data which includes the gender of the perpetrator?
> 
> Even the CSO adds caveats to the Garda Pulse data it reports.



No, I was only commenting on victims and I'd be against any suggestion that male victims of abuse are any less deserving of compassion just because the perpetrators were also male.


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## Thirsty (16 Mar 2021)

Leo said:


> The subject here is assault, and men make up ~60% of the victims of attempts/threats to murder, assaults, harassments and related offences.


Actually, the digression was in  relation to an anecdote where a women / girl  wishing to join self defence classes was told to learn how to run fast.

Generalisation coming up, sit tight folks.

Women spend far too much time already constantly assessing threats and back up plans to get out of danger.

I don't understand how anyone could find the anecdote funny; or even believe that it's "good advice" women need to hear.


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## Purple (16 Mar 2021)

Thirsty said:


> Women spend far too much time already constantly assessing threats and back up plans to get out of danger.


I agree completely. It is disgraceful that women should have to feel that way.


Thirsty said:


> I don't understand how anyone could find the anecdote funny; or even believe that it's "good advice" women need to hear.


I think it’s good advice for anyone, no matter what their gender/ gender identity etc. It is better to run away that get into a situation of physical conflict. If the physical conflict is unavoidable then pepper spray it better than 12 months of self defence classes. The reality is that most of us are averse to violence so we won’t strike first. If you are punched hard in the nose or stabbed in the chest it won’t matter how many self defence classes you’ve had, you’ve already lost.


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## Nowronganswer (16 Mar 2021)

Winnie1 said:


> Ongoing bullying issue.  Have finally caught them on cctv assaulting my son - can we go after the parents for compensation for my son.
> Don’t even care about the money - we’ll give it away.  Sick of dealing with parents who don’t give a damn what their kids do and guards who have to give them 47 chances!


Hello, sorry to hear that your son is being bullied. An awful situation for any child. Your son in strong, this group when broken down are a group of week individuals scared. Some are born bad, come from bad families and grow up just like thier siblings and parents. Some are a product of their environment. Some are going along with the group gang mentality, yet if they were on their own they would not do this. When their within the group/gang they cant be seen to show empathy or compassion or they too may become the victim. Its out of fear these groups/gangs are form. You have a loads of scared individuals grouping together for protection, no one individual  tell the other but thats why a group is formed. Withing the group you have different personalities, when something kickes off one or 2 start to bully your son its the mob mentality to join in and kick punch etc. Id be hoping that deep down the majority of the group have some good in them and step in at some stage.
My advice is to bring your son to local boxing club. The 1st time he will be scared as any child will be. The next few weeks he will make friends, grow in confidence and learn to defend himself not just physically but most importantly Mentally. I joined a  boxing club because i was bullied in school. I boxed for over 10years and never once did i raise a fist outside of the boxing club.
He wont regret it.


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## SparkRite (16 Mar 2021)

Purple said:


> I think it’s good advice for anyone, no matter what their gender/ gender identity etc.


Without any doubt whatsoever it is good sound advice.
Try your best to avoid any physical confrontation at all time, this is also taught in any decent self defence school.


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## Purple (16 Mar 2021)

SparkRite said:


> Without any doubt whatsoever it is good sound advice.
> Try your best to avoid any physical confrontation at all time, this is also taught in any decent self defence school.


Yep, back when I was young(er) that’s what my karate teacher told me.


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