# Im a director of a mgt co with debtors:Naming & shaming debtors-in a roundabout way



## vino (19 Jun 2009)

Hi all, 

I'm a director of a management company and we have a lot of outstanding fees. 

We have sent some of these people to our solicitor and we have been somewhat successful in getting some of the money. 

However, there are still quite a lot of people still owing. I know we probably can't send a list to all residents stating who has not paid. But could we send a list of people who _have _paid their fees? Our agent isn't keen to do this. Perhaps it goes against data protection?

We have recently added a levy, even if we couldn't say who has paid their maintenance fees could we issue a letter stating who has paid their levy? 

Just giving apartment details rather than names? As i'm sure you know, you'll try anything possible to get the money in! 

Thanks.


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## purpeller (19 Jun 2009)

*Re: Naming and shaming debtors (in a roundabout way)*

I understand the urge to name and shame but it's only going to incur further wrath.  I wouldn't risk it - take your agent's advice.
I don't think it would violate data protection, as long as you were sending the information the owners, rather than residents, because each owner is a member of the management company and entitled to have information about the company's debt.  It usually wouldn't be given out unless it was requested by an individual.


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## fobs (19 Jun 2009)

*Re: Naming and shaming debtors (in a roundabout way)*

We have a residents association where each house in our housing estate pays roughly €130 a year for the upkeep of the greens. Our end of year newsletter had a list of the 28 houses and paid was written beside those who had paid. I assumed those who were blank had not paid but it didn't specifically state this!


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## mathepac (19 Jun 2009)

*Re: Naming and shaming debtors (in a roundabout way)*



fobs said:


> We have a residents association ...


This is a very different situation to OP's. You have a voluntary organisation with voluntary contributors, whereas OP's management company has a contractual arrangement with property owners, who are not necessarily residents.


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## vino (19 Jun 2009)

*Re: Naming and shaming debtors (in a roundabout way)*

Thanks for your replies. 

Fobs my mother in law owns a second property that she lets and they too get a list of people who have paid. Perhaps it's a resident's association like yours and not fees as such. I'll check it out. 

Mathpac, thanks, I think this is why our agent doesn't want to do it because I suppose it is risky and could anger people. But when you have owners who haven't paid their fees in three years and they are impacting on your standard of living, you really couldn't care what happens to them! : )


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## avantarklu (19 Jun 2009)

*Re: Naming and shaming debtors (in a roundabout way)*

Perhaps the Management Company should consider the withdrawal of services covered by the fee, such as:
 - bins. Notify local council of any incidences of dumping
 - insurance cover (change the 'interested party' from the owner to the management company - 'whole' building remains insured. Notify mortgage lender of this fact)
 - management agent services (instruct the agent not to take a call from any owner in arrears)
 - remove parking privileges (if parking spaces are not seperately owned), clamp offenders 
 - any other service that is provided to all but that can be withheld from an individual who is not paid up


A final thought - consider the matter of utilities such as gas, electricity, tv etc provided to each unit - if these service are being provided across Mgt Co property, then perhaps Mgt Co can restrict that permission where fees are outstanding.


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## WHAT'SFREE? (19 Jun 2009)

*Re: Naming and shaming debtors (in a roundabout way)*

Just a quick question though vino, what benefit do you envisage would be gained by naming those who haven't paid?  I ask, because it's a suggestion I pondered in my own situation...

Do you think the non-payers would actually feel ashamed enough to suddenly pay up, or if they're so ignorant to think they can just withhold fees (for whatever reason) would they just continue to not pay?

Members who have paid, will naturally feel aggrieved that some appear to be getting away with not paying, however, cannot actually force their neighbours to pay up.  That's one of the tasks the management agent is paid to do.

My great fear is that if a list of debtors is made known to all members, that others may start to withhold future fees with the thinking "well why should I pay my fees when x amount of others aren't and (apparently - for now) getting away with it".


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## vino (20 Jun 2009)

*Re: Naming and shaming debtors (in a roundabout way)*



avantarklu said:


> Perhaps the Management Company should consider the withdrawal of services covered by the fee, such as:
> - bins. Notify local council of any incidences of dumping
> - insurance cover (change the 'interested party' from the owner to the management company - 'whole' building remains insured. Notify mortgage lender of this fact)
> - management agent services (instruct the agent not to take a call from any owner in arrears)
> ...





Hi, Unfortunately the council do not want to know about illegal dumping because it's private property. They've refused to help. Funny how it's not private property when it suits them but that's a whole other thread!

It'd be difficult to restrict ESB and TV as each unit would pay separately for these so they would be customers in their own right. We can't restrict ESB etc in the common areas. I am interested in your suggestion about car parking though. We don't have designated parking spaces and nobody owns a space. I might try to introduce parking permits and not give permits to debtors. They will be clamped without a permit. I'll look into it. 

Notifying lenders is something I wanted to do when I came on board but we decided to go the debt collection route. I'm also going to see what we can do about this. 

Thanks!


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## vino (20 Jun 2009)

*Re: Naming and shaming debtors (in a roundabout way)*



WHAT'SFREE? said:


> Just a quick question though vino, what benefit do you envisage would be gained by naming those who haven't paid?  I ask, because it's a suggestion I pondered in my own situation...
> 
> Do you think the non-payers would actually feel ashamed enough to suddenly pay up, or if they're so ignorant to think they can just withhold fees (for whatever reason) would they just continue to not pay?
> 
> ...





I would hope that some would be embarrassed into paying. I know I wouldn't want my neighbours knowing they were footing the bill for me. There were a couple of people who owed a lot and found out some of us knew exactly how much they owed and they made arrangements to pay. Unfortunately a lot of the culprits are landlords so I don't know if it would bother them too much. 

I know what you mean about people not paying because others aren't but in my experience owners need to have confidence in the committee and agent and see that the money that is coming in is being put to the best use possible. I think people are more likely not to pay if an agent is doing nothing. Sadly, this is where our problems started when the development was new. We have a good agent now and a good committee but it takes time to get everything back on track.


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## shesells (20 Jun 2009)

*Re: Im a director of a mgt co with debtors:Naming & shaming debtors-in a roundabout w*

We listed them in our accounts which is fair enough. You list income, then list income due and give the list of unit numbers and the amount outstanding. Worked!


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## DianeC401 (26 Jun 2009)

*Re: Im a director of a mgt co with debtors:Naming & shaming debtors-in a roundabout w*

In our Management Company we found the most effective way of getting people to pay up is to charge 15% interest on their debt. This is done after a certain amount of time and after requests and reminders have been issued. This interest is charged on an ongoing basis until the payment is received. You may need to check the terms of your lease to see if this is possible but as you mention you are charging a 'levy' I presume this is the same thing.

Our solicitor is also very active on our behalf. Some people just don't listen until you bring in the legal guys. 

Finally before we instigated this system we wrote to everyone alerting them to the new practice. When people know from the outset you aren't going to tolerate late payments it makes a big difference.

Since we've introduced this  our debt levels have reduced significantly. Obviously, there are always one or two who just won't pay ... but most people don't want the hassle of legal proceedings and once they know the management company are consistent, persistent and serious about pursuing them for unpaid fees they pay up


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## MPMC (5 Jul 2009)

*Re: Im a director of a mgt co with debtors:Naming & shaming debtors-in a roundabout w*

I run a managing agents and although generally we have a really good success rate at getting members to pay service charges regularly on all our properties (due to a lot of work that we put into communicating properly, sorry but have to put in some sort of plug  ).....

The best advice I can give would be to make every member aware of those members who have failed to pay for a number of years or are who simply say "No I am not paying" when the manaing agent gives them a phone-call, ...However, if someone has just lost their job and has communicated then its obviously not the best idea to "name & shame" them amongst other members....So good communication is key (sounds obvious but the vast majority of bad management that I see essentially comes down to this point).

Basically what I am saying is that communicating openly with all your members is absolutely necessary not only to keep the regular payers paying but also because the vast majority (99.999%) of landlords/ property owners will pay their service charges (or work out a payment plan over the course of 12 months) if communication is effective (and this is a large part of what you employ and pay your managing agent to do).

Stephen.


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## computerman (6 Jul 2009)

*Re: Im a director of a mgt co with debtors:Naming & shaming debtors-in a roundabout w*

We had a similar problem in a development Im involved with last year. We contacted a "car park consultant" (no he did not have a cap!), he advised us the best way to get arrears off non payers. He did the chasing and we got in about 70% of whats owed. We reckon most of the balance will be in before Sept.


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## nai (6 Jul 2009)

*Re: Im a director of a mgt co with debtors:Naming & shaming debtors-in a roundabout w*

We had similar issues in our estate with people not paying the mgmt fees - there were 2 warnings issued via newsletter to all stating that defaulters would be listed and amount owing in the next edition. The number of defaulters dropped by 40% approx between the four weeks of the newsletter and I believe most paid up or made arrangements after their name/amount appeared in the newsletter for all to see.


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