# Could BCG be helping Irish people avoid the worst of the Coronavirus?



## Leo (3 Apr 2020)

Some news emerging in the last couple of days suggesting the BCG vaccine offers some level of protection. Might go some way to explain worse outcomes in countries Italy and the Netherlands who do not vaccinate for TB unlike here.


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## Brendan Burgess (7 Apr 2020)

Coronavirus: More ‘striking’ evidence BCG vaccine might protect against Covid-19
					

Study shows countries with vaccination programmes have far fewer cases




					www.irishtimes.com
				




_A study of 178 countries by an Irish medical consultant working with epidemiologists at the University of Texas in [broken link removed] shows countries with vaccination programmes – including Ireland – have far fewer coronavirus cases by a factor 10, compared to where BCG programmes are no longer deployed.

This translates into a death rate up to 20-times less, according to urologist Paul Hegarty of the Mater Hospital, Dublin.


“Over the 15 days, incidence of Covid-19 was 38 per million in countries with BCG vaccination whereas the incidence of Covid-19 was 358 per million in the absence of such a programme. The death rate was 4.28 per million in countries with BCG programmes and 40 per million in countries without such a programme,” he added. _


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## Purple (7 Apr 2020)

This is very interesting. Does the BCG cause a partial herd immunity?
Map here (though it looks wrong)






A: The country currently has universal BCG vaccination program. 
B: The country used to recommend BCG vaccination for everyone, but currently does not. 
C: The country never had universal BCG vaccination programs.


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## Leo (7 Apr 2020)

Purple said:


> Does the BCG cause a partial herd immunity?



From what I've read, it trains the immune response to better deal with such infections so while it doesn't offer immunity, it lessens the severity of the symptoms.


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## Pugmister (7 Apr 2020)

Leo said:


> Some news emerging in the last couple of days suggesting the BCG vaccine offers some level of protection. Might go some way to explain worse outcomes in countries Italy and the Netherlands who do not vaccinate for TB unlike here.



Ive been reading into this theory also and it does seem to be a plausible explanation. Im also convinced the the viral load of the initial contagion is directly correlated to the severity of the infection (ive absolutely no medical reasoning for this) but have listened to a number of commentators who believe the same.


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## Purple (7 Apr 2020)

Leo said:


> From what I've read, it trains the immune response to better deal with such infections so while it doesn't offer immunity, it lessens the severity of the symptoms.


Strange though, since TB is a bacterial infection.


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## john luc (7 Apr 2020)

is the map listed accurate


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## Purple (7 Apr 2020)

john luc said:


> what countries are giving BCG to their population


See the map linked in my previous post. Spain, Italy , the USA and Canada don't.


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## llgon (7 Apr 2020)

john luc said:


> is the map listed accurate




No, the programme in Ireland was dropped in 2015.


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## odyssey06 (7 Apr 2020)

Probably what we need to know is what demographics in the country received it, especially for the highest risk groups e.g. over 70s, over 80s.
Some countries started later \ stopped earlier.


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## mathepac (7 Apr 2020)

Purple said:


> Strange though, since TB is a bacterial infection.


This is where it gets complex.

The theory isn't that BCG vaccination provides protection from the SARS-COV-2 virus, but that it may have somehow educated the immune system to respond to COVID-19, the disease brought on by the virus. It seems that, perhaps due to the primary locus of infection being the lungs, the body's response system is better prepared to fight the onset of the disease, reducing the severity of the symptoms.  So the vaccination doesn't act in an anti-viral manner but at a symptomatic level. Does that make sense?


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## Purple (8 Apr 2020)

mathepac said:


> This is where it gets complex.
> 
> The theory isn't that BCG vaccination provides protection from the SARS-COV-2 virus, but that it may have somehow educated the immune system to respond to COVID-19, the disease brought on by the virus. It seems that, perhaps due to the primary locus of infection being the lungs, the body's response system is better prepared to fight the onset of the disease, reducing the severity of the symptoms.  So the vaccination doesn't act in an anti-viral manner but at a symptomatic level. Does that make sense?


Sure, I understood that. I was just surprised that a bacterial infection could create such an immune system response to a virus but as you say both attack the lungs.


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