# Once IPA is set up, can it be cancelled if earnings are too low?



## no_moolah (9 Jun 2014)

Hi guys

Me again ! The OR dealing with my case has put in place an IPA for 36 months. I plan on heading back to Ireland but may not be earning very much when I go back. 

What I want to know is - if, by the time I am discharged, my earnings are so low that I cannot afford to pay anything towards an IPA, will the IPA be cancelled or will it continue to stay in place for 36 months now that it has been set up? I really wanted to stay under the radar so that this would not be set up but even though i'm earning next to nothing they still want me to pay something each month.

So basically what i'm asking is - can this be cancelled now that it has been set up or is it there to stay until the expiry of the 36 months?


----------



## suarez (9 Jun 2014)

On another thread on this site someone successfully argued against having one imposed. I think it was for £40 per month. It would be advisable to argue it now - as once it's set in stone you are stuck with it for 3 years and it will rise and fall in accordance with income fluctuations throughout the 36 months. Did you use the maximum permissible re. your outgoings on Statement of Affairs. Could you include extra outgoings - such as medical, dental, car insurance, tv licence, etc (anything you can think of). Could you argue that you overstated your average income - as the hours are now dropping / ceasing. Your argument must be based on current facts. Is your employment a Zero hours contract or part-time? If so, you could argue that your future hours are impossible to predict and as a result the IPA seems inappropriate  at this juncture. Could your employer write a letter to say your hours are to be cut drastically? Or better again, that your contact is now finished. Now is the time to act!!!


----------



## no_moolah (9 Jun 2014)

My contract is permanent and they know that as they have a copy of it. 

I'm due to leave my job at the end of the month though as i'm heading back to Ireland. So I presume if I write to them now saying that i'll be heading back they might refrain from setting up the agreement?

I'm afraid I might jeopardise things by telling them of my plans in advance though.


----------



## suarez (9 Jun 2014)

That is a problem.  How much does your income exceed your outgoings by?


----------



## no_moolah (9 Jun 2014)

£80 a month. It's not a huge amount but I don't want to be tied into this agreement for the next 3 years


----------



## suarez (9 Jun 2014)

OFFICIAL RECEIVER TECHNICAL GUIDANCE AT 31.7.24 STATES

'Whilst the assessemnt of income and expenditure with regard to obtaining an IPA / IPO is intended to provide a return to creditors where possible, it must be remembered that the bankruptcy legislation is intended to provide the indiv. with an opportunity to start afresh and remain solvent in the future, so her expenditure should not be cut to a level where she will have difficulty funding her reasonable domestic needs.'

I would concentrate on the above and respectfully question the rationale underpinning the IPA, especially if it is a marginal amount.  You must prove / argue that the IPA places an unecessary strain on you in the here and now and provides little to your creditors - ie. the strain it places on you doesn't justify the pittance it will net your creditors.  I would again urge you to look at the outgoings you submitted in your Statement of Affairs and see if you can't come up with additional valid expenses that negate the IPA amount.


----------



## suarez (9 Jun 2014)

Attempt to come up with an additional £80 per month outgoings. Have you included the maximum for clothing?  Do you require clothing for work? Is your house keeping up at around £250?  Medical expenses? Could your journey to work have become more expensive because someone who was driving you, can no longer provide you with a lift? etc


----------



## no_moolah (9 Jun 2014)

Thanks for your advice suarez.

Do you think it is wiser to argue this point with them rather than telling them I cannot afford it anyway as I won't have a job? The reason I am choosing to leave my job and go back is due to health issues. And because of that I will be out of work for a few months.


----------



## no_moolah (9 Jun 2014)

suarez said:


> Attempt to come up with an additional £80 per month outgoings. Have you included the maximum for clothing? Do you require clothing for work? Is your house keeping up at around £250? Medical expenses? Could your journey to work have become more expensive because someone who was driving you, can no longer provide you with a lift? etc


 

I put the absolute maximum in my SOA. They even took some off what I had already put down because they said it was a bit high


----------



## suarez (9 Jun 2014)

The problem with the IPA is that the amount will grow if your income rises in Ireland at any time over the next 3 years.  Therefore, it is important to try to get rid of it now if possible.


----------



## suarez (9 Jun 2014)

I would recommend leaving work immediately so, especially if health issues are verifiable (by a doctor).


----------



## no_moolah (9 Jun 2014)

On the other hand if I stay under the radar now until I am discharged, will they even bother putting one in place?

Surely they won't get me to sign that document if I won't have a job in a few weeks?


----------



## suarez (9 Jun 2014)

It is all about timing.  Have your health issues already been diagnosed by a doctor?  If so, why not leave now and immediately contact the OR. One can only stay under the radar if an IPA isn't established.


----------



## no_moolah (9 Jun 2014)

I'm currently working up my notice so that i'll at least get paid this month. I'm going to be under pressure financially as it is. My employers won't pay me if I go off sick now as it's limited to 2/3 days a year.


----------



## suarez (9 Jun 2014)

It's a difficult decision alright.  My own experience was similar - with several variables involved.  It's a total headwreck and it's hard to see the bigger picture when completely stressed out. From an outside perspective, it would seem that attempting to get the IPA overturned is more important than the month's pay.


----------



## no_moolah (9 Jun 2014)

That's true. Like you said it is hard to see the bigger picture with all the stress.


----------



## suarez (9 Jun 2014)

Some of the UK debt companies provide a live chat service - that's free of charge for initial queries. I found one company, in particular, very useful. I can't mention the company here, as it's considered advertising.  But I would advise going online and attempting the live chat option re. your IPA query.  The guy who runs the company is always available for a live chat.  He provided answers without me having to pay anything.


----------



## Matthew Moore (9 Jun 2014)

Hi No Moolah,

I know the area of expenses is not as straight forward as in Ireland. What level of expenditure does the OR find reasonable? Is the IPA informal so if you refuse they will have to seek an IPO?


----------



## Steve Thatcher (9 Jun 2014)

no_moolah said:


> Hi guys
> 
> Me again ! The OR dealing with my case has put in place an IPA for 36 months. I plan on heading back to Ireland but may not be earning very much when I go back.
> 
> ...




The OR can only put the IPA in place if you agree it. Did you sign it yet, or has he just asked for it.

If not signed. tell him you can't and why. then say you will contact him again when you get a new job. Then ensure next time your income and expenditure match

Steve Thatcher
www.stevethatcher.ie


----------



## no_moolah (10 Jun 2014)

pat2 said:


> Hi No Moolah,
> 
> I know the area of expenses is not as straight forward as in Ireland. What level of expenditure does the OR find reasonable? Is the IPA informal so if you refuse they will have to seek an IPO?


 
Hi Pat

I got a sheet off my "advisors" with details of what I should put down but when I had the telephone conference with the OR they told me that I had overestimated some of the items but that I had also not included some allowable items which they put in for me. I was never given details of what my allowable expenses are following on from the telephone conference.

As far as I can see yes the IPA is informal and they will seek an order if the BR party refuses to sign it.


----------



## no_moolah (10 Jun 2014)

Steve Thatcher said:


> The OR can only put the IPA in place if you agree it. Did you sign it yet, or has he just asked for it.
> 
> If not signed. tell him you can't and why. then say you will contact him again when you get a new job. Then ensure next time your income and expenditure match
> 
> ...


 
Hi Steve

No I have not signed it yet. I am going to write to them today letting them know that my circumstances have changed.

Will it look bad that I've left a permanent (but awful) job?


----------



## Steve Thatcher (11 Jun 2014)

no_moolah said:


> Hi Steve
> 
> No I have not signed it yet. I am going to write to them today letting them know that my circumstances have changed.
> 
> Will it look bad that I've left a permanent (but awful) job?



No, there is nothing you can do. It has happened to my clients on a number of occasions. The OR in my experience, is not generally up for a fight over this. As long as you can give a reason for the OR to tick a box saying he's explored it and you have a cogent reason for it not to be put in place then you will be OK.

Steve Thatcher
www.stevethatcher.ie


----------



## prodigy81 (18 Jun 2014)

Hi there, I am in a predicament, they are looking to put an IPA in place on my bankruptcy, I actually have no surplus cash..Is there anything I am missing out with. I earn only £1300 a month and £440 goes on rent. I am a single man and the electric and gas is included in the rent etc?? I am so worried I dont know what to do please help!!!


----------



## prodigy81 (18 Jun 2014)

Steve Thatcher said:


> No, there is nothing you can do. It has happened to my clients on a number of occasions. The OR in my experience, is not generally up for a fight over this. As long as you can give a reason for the OR to tick a box saying he's explored it and you have a cogent reason for it not to be put in place then you will be OK.
> 
> Steve Thatcher
> www.stevethatcher.ie



Help Steve I am very worried here, I dont need this stress!!! They are looking to put an IPA in place, I cannot afford it. My job is not certain either, they are looking to cut staff and as I was last in I could be first out..This is horrible please help


----------



## join8x (21 May 2015)

suarez said:


> Some of the UK debt companies provide a live chat service - that's free of charge for initial queries. I found one company, in particular, very useful. I can't mention the company here, as it's considered advertising.  But I would advise going online and attempting the live chat option re. your IPA query.  The guy who runs the company is always available for a live chat.  He provided answers without me having to pay anything.




Thank you


----------

