# How much electricity do oil-filled radiators use?



## bubbles

Hi, just had a shock when found my last ESB bill was about treble the usual.
My office is heated by storage heaters, which I find pretty useless; it's very hard to control the heat as the thermostat does not appear to have any effect on the temperature!

I am using one of these oil-filled rad. and presume that's why my bill is so high (plus, my previous bill was estimated).

How can I calculate electricity consumption to arrive at a cost per hour? It says 2000 Watts on the box.

I am interested because my neighbour is also complaining of high bills (although this is a first for me) and he does not use additional electric radiators.

thanks for replies.

regards

Bubbles


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## ClubMan

The heater has a 2KW rating.   
The price (assuming domestic daytime rates - business and/or nightsaver rates may differ) of a "unit" of electricity (1KWh = KiloWatt Hour) is €0.122 including VAT   
So the cost of running the heater is: 2KW x number of hours x €0.122


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## bubbles

*Thanks, Clubman.*

What would we do without you?

I am going to get out pen and paper and do some calculations,  and check the meter, if I can find it!

Nobody in the building seems to know where it is. Weird.

Regards

Bubbles


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## ClubMan

*Re: Thanks, Clubman.*

Oh - don't forget that ESB prices went up effective from January 2003 (standard unit charge up to [broken link removed] from [broken link removed] previously inc. VAT) although these should only filter through onto bills [broken link removed]. However this would not explain an ostensible 30% discrepancy in any case.


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## Dav

*ESB*

Bubbles,
I had similar issues with ESB bills.
I contacted them about why the estimated readings were so much lower(resulting in a whopper of a bill every 6-8 mths to catchup)
They told me that you can give them a meter reading and they will bill from last reading(estimated or actual) to the one you give them.
At least this way you will not get hit with a whopper of a bill and will know what the next bill will be.
Dav


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## ClubMan

*Re: ESB*

If you missed the meter reader (where the meter is indoors and not accessible externally) or your estimated bill is significantly out of whack then you can [broken link removed] or over the phone (hope that link is OK because it's not displaying for me at the moment!) and have the EBS reissue a corrected bill.


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## Bear

*EBS vs ESB*

Sometimes I do wish the EBS would supply electricity and get rid of that monopoly!!
Bear


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## ClubMan

*Re: EBS vs ESB*

D'oh! Well, you know what I meant...


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## bubbles

*Thanks!*

Thanks for the above. It does look as if my higher than usual bill is a result of estimated bills for the last few months. I had not even noticed.

regards
Bubbles


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## davelerave

*Re: Thanks!*

if you own the place you could consider switching over to night storage heating or else maybe central heating


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## bubbles

*night tariff*

The system is already on night tariff and as I don't own it, installing central heating is not an option.

In any case, I don't know where a boiler, even a small gas one, could be located. There is no storage space whatsoever, half the cupboard space in the kitchen is made up of units with very weird shapes.

I use the appartment as an office so am not too bothered about it, but I don't know how people who live there manage to store their possessions!

I cannot understand how builders are given permission to build appartments without storage, and I mean, no storage at all.

regards
Bubbles


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## davelerave

*Re: night tariff*

sorry ,i didn't read your post thoroughly the first time ,nsh should be fine for an office 9-5 setup if you have enough heaters for the size.they should be hot in the morning ,check the input is set to max and adjust the output to spread the heat throughout the day,the 'input' controls the electricity usage while the output is just a  mechanical flap that lets the heat escape during the day,they should be fine for a 9-5 setup
if you have enough of them but no good for heat in the evening


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## bubbles

*input and output*

Good idea and thanks.
There is a thermostat but it appears to have limited effect on regulating the room temperature. I'll have a go at the output dial instead.

regards
Bubbles


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## ClubMan

*Re: input and output*

For what it's worth the ESB have a brief overview of electric storage heating [broken link removed]. As far as I remember the room thermostat is supposed to control the background heating level for the room provided by the storage (as opposed to convection) heater part of the radiator or something like that while the input and output controls regulate the charging and discharging respectively of a specific radiator. To be honest I've always found regulation of storage heaters a bit of a hit and miss affair. When they're used in a Goldshield insulated domestic house it's not such a big deal because the insulation is very efficient and ensures that the house generally maintains a comfortable level of heat anyway. However I've worked in less efficiently insulated offices with storage heaters and that was another matter altogether! Brrr......


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## ClubMan

*so the cost of running the heater is: 2KW x number of hours x €0.122*

Actually this may not be the case if the heater is on a thermostat and consequently will not be running at full wattage all the time that it's switched on. Not sure how you calculate the usage in this case. However the calculations I outlined earlier at least give the worst case running costs.


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## heinbloed1

*energy costs of an oilfilled radiator*

The formula given is correct:KW x hours x €s/kWh
The "hours in use" can be expressed in decimal units if the radiator has a timer or thermostat build in.For example a usage of half an hour would give us the calculation 
2 kw x 0.5 hours x €s/kWh   or for 10 minutes
2 kw x 0.167 x €s/kWh   and so on.


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## ClubMan

*Re: energy costs of an oilfilled radiator*

But surely if the thermostat is dynamically switching the heater on and off in line with the environmental temperature then it may not be running at full wattage all of the time so the calcuations I originally laid out will only give the maximum/worst case cost?


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## heinbloed1

*energy/radiator*

I am not sure about modulating oil filled radiators.Do they exist at all?As far as I am aware of these oil filled electric radiators switch on or off at the set power.You could have the setting "1" which uses say 1kW and the setting "2" using 2kW and so on.But that would not be modulating ,just on and off.Dimmers -like for example for a lamp- are quiet expensive for Wattages  high as necessary for an oil filled electric radiator,they might be more expensive than the radiator itself.So usually it's "on" or "off".The rhythm/frequency would be dictated by the thermostat sensing the (room) temperature.Like in an oven used in the kitchen.But there might be newer ones on the market I haven't seen before.


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## ClubMan

*Re: energy/radiator*

OK - I get you now. That makes sense - the dial dictating the effective wattage used. Perhaps they don't include a thermostat in most or all cases as you say. I just thought that somebody mentioned that before. Thanks for the explanation.


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## Ocras

*Re: energy/radiator*

"The rhythm/frequency would be dictated by the thermostat sensing the (room) temperature.Like in an oven used in the kitchen.But there might be newer ones on the market I haven't seen before."

You've lost me.

It's a bimetal switch, not a rheostat as in cooker rings. When the set temps is reached by the heater, the power is isolated(you don't pay). When it drops below the set temperature, the power is back on (you pay).

The only difference the 1KW or 2KW setting will give you is the speed at which the temperature will be reached.


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## ClubMan

*Re: energy/radiator*

OK - so it is switching on and off dynamically after all so even  at 1KW or 2KW setting or whatver it is unlikely to be running at full pelt all of the time so the calculations above only give the maximum/worst case running costs? I seem to be going in circles now!


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## Ocras

*Re: energy/radiator*

Yes, so basically at 2KW it is going to bring your room to your desired temperature twice as fast as at 1KW. So it is the same unit cost of electricity.

The thermostat (and all thermostats) are simply temperature sensitive, on/off (no in-between) switches, which activate at the threshold that you set.

If we have it set at the manufacturers setting of "4", it is probably going to switch itself off after half the time period for a 2KW setting, as opposed to a 1KW setting.


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## heinbloed1

*energy/radiator*

The number of Watts consumed by the oil filled electric radiator can be seen on the label.With different settings the thing uses different kilowatts per hour when in running modus.Note:it might not be in the running modus all the time that it is plugged in the socket-because it has reached the desired temperature for example.
All oil filled electric heaters should have  a thermostat,the chance that they ignite spontaneous or simply explode would be too high if they had no thermostat-the bi metal Ocras is speaking about is a thermostat.
If you really want to know in exact numbers how much your el.radiator is using than you can buy an energy meter.LIDL has them now and again,your local electric shop might have them as well.But when purchasing one of them (€10-15) check at the label the maximum permitted wattage.The LIDL type was good for a maximum of 3000 Watts as far as I remember.
By the way:the cheapest way to heat your room is by central heating supplied with heat from a condensing boiler.The CH radiator can be fitted with a thermostat as well. The electro magnetic fields caused by electric goods do not belong into the vicinity of children and certainly not into bedrooms.A problem that is by far underestimated .


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## ClubMan

*Re: energy/radiator*

*when in running modus*

Jaysus lads - any chance you could explain these sparky (?) terms?


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## Ocras

*Re: energy/radiator*

I have to step in here. The number of kilowatts per hour an oil filled radiator uses is determined by the ambient temperature of the area it is heating, coupled with the thermostat setting.

The thermostat is for determining what temperature it will cut out at, and come back on at. It has nothing to do with safety.

Within the heater and sometimes attached to the thermostat housing, we have a safety-cut-out, which needs internal manual resetting. This is there, in case of the thermostat failing.

Every single current carrying conductor generates a magnetic field around it. The dangers of such, at relatively low currents is debateable. If one feels that an electric heater is generating a dangerous one, then one must consider every cable and appliance in the home.

Regards, "when in running modus"; I think I was off sick the day modii was covered Colaiste Na Spaircigh.


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## ClubMan

*Re: energy/radiator*

Thanks for that _Ocras_ - so the pendulum has swung back towards the theory that the heater element(s) will be switched on and off under thermostatic control and will therefore may not be running at full wattage at all times.

*The electro magnetic fields caused by electric goods do not belong into the vicinity of children and certainly not into bedrooms.*

Is there any independent research that backs up this claim?


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## heinbloed1

*EMFs and sources of information*

Hi ClubMan !
There is a lot research done on this issue since the mass introduction of mobile phones.But the phenomena of cell/nerve damage caused by electro magnetic fields is known since the early days of electric science.Especially within the standard household electricity,50-60 Hertz and 220/110 Volt.
Check google under "  EMFs Swedish studies " for the newer ones.Sweden has changed their building regs.after the newer researches had been published,as far as I can remember the news reports there was an agreement in the EU that all national building regs should be rechecked and changed accordingly.But than we voted for the Conservatives and we got what we deserved:no thing. 
In most EU countries building regs.demand that homes are build at least 100m away from overland power lines.Here in Eire they fix the cables of power lines straight to the house wall......


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## ClubMan

*Re: EMFs and sources of information*

*There is a lot research done on this issue since the mass introduction of mobile phones.*

Yes - but it was my understanding that there was no authoritative/conclusive evidence that showed that electromagnetic fields were detrimental to human or animal health? Unfortunately the [broken link removed] on this issue all seem to be removed for updating at the moment. For what it's worth the Skeptics Dictionary states that:


> Many people fear that EMFs cause cancer; however, a causal connection between EMFs and cancer has not been established.



*But than we voted for the Conservatives and we got what we deserved*

Are you referring to the _UK_ or somewhere other than _Ireland_ here?


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## Ocras

*Re: EMFs and sources of information*

Mobile phone technology and the health risks associated with them relate to microwaves not EMF's from 50hz supplies.

High voltage/high current overhead power lines are a different kettle of fish, as the fields generated are massive, and can be measured at reasonable distance.

Honestly, and no offence, yours is the first reference I (just interested, not an authority) have read about health risks related to domestic power and transmission.

All the google references I have found point to high tension/voltage power lines, not domestic voltages.


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## heinbloed1

*EMFs*

There is plenty of information available.The Swedish building regs had been changed to the point that a house is not allowed to be build within the range of 150m of an overland power line.The limit for NEW homes next to high voltage power lines-railways for example -is 300m.The same is for Germany,but the German railways have to do/can do  a test checking for the radiation before they decide to put up protective earthed fencing.The limit for new housing is as well 300m but allowing the lower limit of 150m if the testing results would allows for it,the geography playing a role and -of course-the national interest.For older buildings there is no time limit to test for radiation unless the inhabitants demand it.And most buildings build next to railway power lines belong to the railway company.
In other non-EU countries the building regs are considering power lines as a health hazard as well.
High voltage power lines were never allowed (on the continent!) to be build above houses or next to them.Here we see them over schools,hospitals and children creches.High voltage lines are those running more than 220/230 volts,correct me if I am wrong. 
On the continent you can buy wallpapers that have a build-in protective metal web, a so called Faraday cage (excuse my bad translation).These had been available before the mobile phones appeared.For the power lines you could contact the cancer society for further information.
And don't think about using a mobile phone as a child minder/baby phone!
If you want to find out if something like an electromagnetic field exists in your home you can use a cheap compass.If the compass is irritated by a signal -of a cable for example-you can be sure that there is an EMF.But this method is crude,a compass won't show you the finer fields nor their strength.      
I am not an authority in the field either ,so check yourself if you want to run the may- be- not -convincing risk.
I came across the point myself when I was trekking in Iceland,a hardly at all populated area .At Myggenvatten I walked at pitch black night to the camping place and felt the very strong sensation of a ...something.The next evening the same thing at the same spot again.In the morning I investigated it,it was an underground cable(rare enough in Iceland) coming out of the ground,going into a transformer station and leaving the station again.Investigating,well,just reading the tourist guide,I found out that this transformer is supplied with under ground cables for the reason that overhead cables would spoil the view on the lake.The population had demonstrated against the transformer afraid that it might drive away the trolls and fairies....
I neither saw the cable  nor the lake  nor the transformer station late in the evening but the EMF was certainly there.And believe me,Myggenvatten is as a "dry" place you hardly find elsewhere...


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## heinbloed1

*EMFs in homes*

I found an US page:[broken link removed]


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