# Trying to live with the regret of financial mistake



## MickoMack (19 Aug 2017)

Although many here on this board are in situations of difficulty holding on to their homes and jobs etc., I'm posting this little story to highlight the difficulty I'm having trying to live with a financial mistake of the past.
In 2007 I had some spare cash and I had a mortgage sanctioned. I got the nerve to buy 25,000
Ryanair shares at approx €5 each: €125,000. The crash came and we all know the carnage that it brought. I saw my investment drop to about 65k at one stage (shares fell to €2.50). I was panicking but could afford to hold. As time went on, things clawed back slowly, very slowly.
I had got such a fright at the loss of 50% that I started selling the shares. I think that I sold my last batch of 5k at about 5.5. I took an overall loss of about 30k.... not the end of the world.
I'm a small time self employed plumber with an interest in shares, not a big time investor.

The killer for me now is that I believed in the ryanair story then, as now, but didn't believe in myself. I could have afforded to hold onto those shares. I now look and see that the original investment would be worth over €500,000 (including the dividends paid) and it kills me at times.

I know people will say 'no point in crying over spilled milk', 'get over it' 'you never had it in the first place' etc., but it is gut wrenching at times.

I'm just wondering has anybody here had a similar experience and living with regret?


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## Monbretia (19 Aug 2017)

I could have bought a brand new car with my SSIA money but I decided instead to buy bank shares!   On top of all the bank shares I bought through 'save as you earn' schemes, I was always a great saver and look where that got me!

On another note I put a bet on Donald Trump to win (not mind you that I support him but I figured he would win), anyway I won a nice little amount and of course am sorry that I didn't go all out with my gut instinct and put a packet on him.  I never put a bet on before in my life and probably never will again, I considered it a risky investment but it turned out a lot better than the bank shares


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## galway_blow_in (19 Aug 2017)

MickoMack said:


> Although many here on this board are in situations of difficulty holding on to their homes and jobs etc., I'm posting this little story to highlight the difficulty I'm having trying to live with a financial mistake of the past.
> In 2007 I had some spare cash and I had a mortgage sanctioned. I got the nerve to buy 25,000
> Ryanair shares at approx €5 each: €125,000. The crash came and we all know the carnage that it brought. I saw my investment drop to about 65k at one stage (shares fell to €2.50). I was panicking but could afford to hold. As time went on, things clawed back slowly, very slowly.
> I had got such a fright at the loss of 50% that I started selling the shares. I think that I sold my last batch of 5k at about 5.5. I took an overall loss of about 30k.... not the end of the world.
> ...



your experience is not unusual , in reality ( and i do not mean to sound in anyway disrespectful ) you probably didnt know enough about shares , most people dont and thus just buy funds which track the overall market , this means missing out on stocks like netflix , facebook , ryanair , which soar in price , many people sell too soon as they assume a stock can only go so high ,  hindsight as they say

it would be much worse if you had took out a big mortgage on a house in a part of the country which will probably never see prices return to 2007 levels

30 k is not a massive amount of money to have lost , dont mean to sound glib but if you bought a brand new range rover , it would loose that amount within two years easily , i lost twice  that on an investment in budapest property from 2005 to 2009 and i feel i was lucky to get the thing sold on when i did as that country went further downhill after that


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## Black Sheep (19 Aug 2017)

I'm sure there are so many here who could tell similar tales, myself included.
I received an inheritance mainly of BOI shares (at their peak). As my dad was a wise owl I decided to follow in his footsteps and add to the stach. I still have those worthless pieces of paper. It took me  a long time to get over it, not just for my own sake but the thought of my parents hard earned cash down the tubes was the killer.


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## Gervan (19 Aug 2017)

This is such an interesting thread. 
I had money in Anglo Irish and Irish Nationwide accounts, but reckoned the interest rates they were offering were too high to be realistic, so I moved my money elsewhere. My husband is a "do nothing" sort when it comes to money, and he left his funds in. He got the higher rates, even though the banks folded, and I was gnashing my teeth about having been "too wise".
There were many on here wanting to move their bank deposits overseas, in those rocky days. I expect many of them have sad tales to tell. It's the "what might have been" regret.


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## MickoMack (19 Aug 2017)

Thanks all for your responses. It would be easier to deal with it if Ryanair remained at the price they are at now, but they are growing like gangbusters and I know it will be a 1 million euro regret one day. I was in holidays recently in Italy, an hour outside of Rome. Every 15 minutes I'd look up to see a Ryanair Jet landing. I can't get away from it.


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## vandriver (19 Aug 2017)

So buy half a million worth then !


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## Gordon Gekko (19 Aug 2017)

My parents loaned €250k to their close friends. Fast forward to now and both the €250k and the friendship are gone. Sad.


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## MickoMack (19 Aug 2017)

That is sad Gordon. Was it used to buy shares?


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## Gordon Gekko (19 Aug 2017)

MickoMack said:


> That is sad Gordon. Was it used to buy shares?



No, it was to do with their business. Sadly, they lied along the way, which is what ended the friendship.


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## Early Riser (19 Aug 2017)

Gordon Gekko said:


> My parents loaned €250k to their close friends. Fast forward to now and both the €250k and the friendship are gone. Sad.



 That is a triple loss - the financial loss, the betrayal of trust and done by a "friend". It must have been a shocking blow.


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## galway_blow_in (19 Aug 2017)

Gordon Gekko said:


> My parents loaned €250k to their close friends. Fast forward to now and both the €250k and the friendship are gone. Sad.



i wouldnt loan someone 2500 , they must be very wealthy or extremely nice people


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## galway_blow_in (19 Aug 2017)

MickoMack said:


> Thanks all for your responses. It would be easier to deal with it if Ryanair remained at the price they are at now, but they are growing like gangbusters and I know it will be a 1 million euro regret one day. I was in holidays recently in Italy, an hour outside of Rome. Every 15 minutes I'd look up to see a Ryanair Jet landing. I can't get away from it.



that would not be reason enough to own ryanair , shares in mercedes ( daimler ) are worth no more today than they were fifteen years ago , this despite the fact that mercedes has a hugely recognisable brand and presence , ford shares were worth the same thirty years ago as they are today , buying shares in ryanair because they land every five minutes at an airport is not enough


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## Jim2007 (19 Aug 2017)

MickoMack said:


> The killer for me now is that I believed in the ryanair story then, as now, but didn't believe in myself. I could have afforded to hold onto those shares.



It is not about believing in their story, it is about creating your own story.  You can't have confidence in yourself, if you are relying on someone else's story.  If you want to invest in an airline, then you need to know everything about that industry, the players - their weaknesses and strengths, the cost models, the operations etc... the financing etc...  Knowledge builds confidence and enables you to make the right decision in the down turns. 

You should also realise that if you are a growth investor that diversification is more important than ever.  No matter what you do some will crash and burn, it is just the reality of growth investing.


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## Easeler (19 Aug 2017)

I think your a bit hard on yourself mick, you had a go, you tryied to make things happen for yourself, you had balls enough to put on a massive punt on a company you believed in and  the timing was horrible but you lived to tell the tale. Hope your doing alright now mick plumbers are back in business again.


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## joe sod (19 Aug 2017)

I sold a few mining shares at end of 2015, lost around 60% of value on some , I sold to harvest tax loss but could not bring myself to reinvest in those shares when the month was up (for tax loss selling purposes). Now I look at those shares and some are worth more than my original buy price now, ouch. The key was they were just a proportion of my investments so did not hurt me too much. I think you are better off investing the bulk of your money in general ETFs and funds (you have to look into the tax issue with these, discussed at length in other threads). Its never a good idea to invest so much of your savings in one investment even if it is ryanair. Imagine if you decided to dive back into ryanair and then a week later Michael O Leary surprises the market by resigning or a ryanair flight crashes, you could see a substantial drop in share price, not good for the nerves.


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## Palerider (19 Aug 2017)

Living with regret is of no value to you or anybody Op, I lost my backside on bank shares, more than three times my salary, I couldn't bear to sell even as they were collapsing in front of me, I am not alone, I think most people have experience of poor decisions, ultimate loss - total or partial, so what, whilst I no longer do equities....ever, the lesson was learned the hard way and I've moved on, thankfully recovering over the intervening years.

Regrets are part of life and a factor of being in the game, don't forget for every Ying there is a yang and successes happen as well.


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## MickoMack (19 Aug 2017)

Thanks Palerider, galwayjoe, joe sod etc, and to all those who've responded. Contrary to some of the previous posts about the Ryanair fundamentals and do's and dont's of value investing etc, I guess the core of my post really is, how does one deal with the regret of making a bad financial decision that (could have had a life changing effect)?
Maybe the challenge for people like me (who are beating themselves up over a bad decision taken) is the emotional reconciliation of it, not a logical/practical one.
We all know that regret is an irrational feeling (nothing is gained by it), but it is accepting it that is hard. Sorry, if all that sounds a bit wishy washy.


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## delfio (19 Aug 2017)

MickoMack said:


> Thanks all for your responses. It would be easier to deal with it if Ryanair remained at the price they are at now, but they are growing like gangbusters and I know it will be a 1 million euro regret one day. I was in holidays recently in Italy, an hour outside of Rome. Every 15 minutes I'd look up to see a Ryanair Jet landing. I can't get away from it.



It's tough but it's a similar story to all those who were forced to sell their houses during the depressive years and now they watch from afar as those same houses have recovered in value especially in the cities. 

You need to let it go otherwise it would only eat away at you. Be thankful for all the other good things in your life.  You have learned a valuable lesson, never dabble in shares unless you can afford to lose the money.


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## noproblem (19 Aug 2017)

The following was all inherited money, so one might say easy come easy go. (1) Bought in Turkey for €115k, sold for €70k, (2) invested in a Polska fund with €103k,  got back €32k, (3)bought in Cyprus €260k, still there but paying for itself, with present sale value aprox €150k. 
On the upside, money from loss in Turkey invested in house in Galway, ie, €70k and recently sold for €350k, Polska fund loss + another €60k invested in Dublin run down semi, is now rented out aprox 6 yrs, doing very well and has value of aprox €400k +. THERE'S BEEN OTHER ONES OF DIFFERING VALUES BUT THE ONES MENTIONED ARE WHAT CAN HAPPEN TO ANYONE.  I guess you could say life's a game of luck, i've been lucky and unlucky and at all times went my own gut but i'll survive


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## major (19 Aug 2017)

Sold over 3000 Kerry plc shares for 15 euro each in 07/08 to buy and put up a expensive farm shed,now Kerry plc shares are 77+  which makes the shed the most  expensive piece of equipment I ever got done on the farm


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## noproblem (19 Aug 2017)

major said:


> Sold over 3000 Kerry plc shares for 15 euro each in 07/08 to buy and put up a expensive farm shed,now Kerry plc shares are 77+  which makes the shed the most  expensive piece of equipment I ever got done on the farm



I'd imagine your shed is still standing and probably left you quite a few quid since you put it up. 
Kerry's been good to a lot of people


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## IsleOfMan (20 Aug 2017)

Lost a bundle when 9/11 happened. I had just invested heavily in insurance shares. Took me 6 years to get it back. Then the financial crisis hit. Lost a lot on Bradford & Bingley, Cattles, Woolworths, Marconi, Waterford Wedgewood and some oil shares. Still nursing huge losses on Independent News and Media.
Others have come good. When the dust settles I will be down about €20k from losses of €80k.
Then there are the what ifs. Yes I would put Ryanair up there. Thought about buying them when they were about €4 but didn't. I bought and sold Anglo many times and made a profit but didn't hold them. I had planned to sell my house and "park" my money in safe bank shares until I found another house. Thank God that didn't happen.
So I consider myself lucky. So should the OP.


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## PaddyBloggit (20 Aug 2017)

Put it into perspective with this guy's situation - his $800 sell off of shares cost him $67 billion and he says he has no regrets:

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-4691594/Apple-founder-sold-stake-1976-no-regrets.html

We all have regrets - both financial and otherwise and it is often hard to reconcile with them but we have to do our best to accept things as they are or they will eat us up.


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## MickoMack (20 Aug 2017)

Thanks Paddy and all, for your posts. There's comfort in knowing that one's not alone.


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## bleary (20 Aug 2017)

30 grand loss? think of gay byrne. Not a Big fan of his but when I think of his financial history ya have to feel sorry for him, first defrauded by his accountant and friend, then invests in safe bank shares like Anglo , finally downsizes into an apartment in ballsbridge from house in howth at the height of the boom. Buys the apartment but never managed to sell the house . Ouch.
Hopefully it's swings and roundabouts, especially if you haven't lost your health or your friends and family with it.


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## MickoMack (20 Aug 2017)

Thanks Bleary, and yeah, Gay has got burned (pardon the pun) time after time. 
I met a man recently, who was cooking in the kitchen of his restaurant. I went in to say hello as I hadn't seen him in about 20 years. We got to talking about the crisis and lost investments, and he said follow me upstairs and I'll show you something. We went into his pokey little office and he pulled out share certs totalling 290,000 boi shares (old valuation, before reverse splits etc) which amounted at peak to 5 and a half million euro at their peak. He had been buying them since the 60s. They are now virtually worthless. He did get huge dividends down through the years and that mitigates some of the pain. I actually couldn't believe how he had come to accept his fate so calmly.


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## joe sod (20 Aug 2017)

with regard to ryanair and k


bleary said:


> 30 grand loss? think of gay byrne. Not a Big fan of his but when I think of his financial history ya have to feel sorry for him, first defrauded by his accountant and friend, then invests in safe bank shares like Anglo , finally downsizes into an apartment in ballsbridge from house in howth at the height of the boom. Buys the apartment but never managed to sell the house . Ouch.
> Hopefully it's swings and roundabouts, especially if you haven't lost your health or your friends and family with it.



yea RTE people not the brightest when it comes to investing, maybe it is because they are too close to all the movers and shakers in irish establishment and believe all the stuff they broadcast. Didnt Mike Murphy also come a cropper during the crash


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## MickoMack (20 Aug 2017)

he did, and Pat Kenny too.


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## joe sod (20 Aug 2017)

I remember the perpetually optimistic economist from Bank of Ireland during the boom, he was never off of RTE . He was a bit like comical ali (the iraqi government spokesman during iraq war) when the crash began to hit. Then he disappeared never to be heard of again.


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## galway_blow_in (20 Aug 2017)

joe sod said:


> I remember the perpetually optimistic economist from Bank of Ireland during the boom, he was never off of RTE . He was a bit like comical ali (the iraqi government spokesman during iraq war) when the crash began to hit. Then he disappeared never to be heard of again.



dan mc laughlin , very annoying voice 

you never see or hear from him these days


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## Brendan Burgess (20 Aug 2017)

galway_blow_in said:


> you never see or hear from him these days



In case you miss him: 

http://www.danmclaughlin.ie/


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## Brendan Burgess (21 Aug 2017)

MickoMack said:


> In 2007 I had some spare cash and I had a mortgage sanctioned. I got the nerve to buy 25,000
> Ryanair shares at approx €5 each: €125,000. The crash came and we all know the carnage that it brought. I saw my investment drop to about 65k at one stage (shares fell to €2.50). I was panicking but could afford to hold. As time went on, things clawed back slowly, very slowly.
> I had got such a fright at the loss of 50% that I started selling the shares. I think that I sold my last batch of 5k at about 5.5. I took an overall loss of about 30k.... not the end of the world.



So you lost €30k out of an €125,000 lump of cash you had?

That really is nothing. 

What about the thousands of people at that time who had €125k but borrowed €500k more to buy an investment property? They still have the €500k mortgage and the property is probably worth €400k? 

What about the people who did not have the €125k but remortgaged their home to buy a property for €625k which is now worth only €400k?  And their income from their business has fallen as well?

What about people who bought a home to trade up to before selling their first home? The market collapsed, and they could not sell their first home?

Or the people who a few years ago, sold their home with a view to trading up. But the market took off before they could settle on a new home. Now they can't even afford to buy their original home.

If you have a portfolio of shares over a number of years, you must make mistakes.  Even when the whole portfolio falls by 50% in line with world markets, you can console yourself that it's a first world problem which loads of people would love to have.



Brendan


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## mtk (21 Aug 2017)

MickoMack said:


> he did, and Pat Kenny too.


what happened to Pat?( I have to admit i like his radio show)


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## mtk (21 Aug 2017)

Dont the behavourial economists ( from the little  i know ) call this loss aversion - a loss of x is a bigger deal for us humans than a gain of x


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