# External Insulation Cost V Benefits



## qwerty1 (7 Jul 2010)

I’m a first time poster here and I need advice in terms of renovations to our home. I’ll try to be as clear as possible.

  Background
  My wife and I bought our home in 2006 for €380k. 
  Current outstanding mortgage of €330k. 
  Est. current market value of €230k 
  Objective: We save 2k each month as our ultimate goal is to move to a bigger house/better area.   We plan to stay in this house for the foreseeable future as we would not be a financial position to do otherwise

  The house
  The house is an ex-council house with poured concrete walls. It has a kitchen extension which is a single block, flat roofed construction. This room is particularly cold in winter and I would be a little concerned about starting a family here.

  Estimated Costs
  We have gotten quotes to externally insulate the house as follows:
  To do the kitchen alone:                €3400
  To do the whole house:                                €7500 (but we have been approved for the SEI grant of 4k if we insulate the whole house.
  If we insulate, we will also have to tackle the flat roof. We have family in that business but would have to pay materials and some labour. No idea yet what this would be..Possibly €3-4k?

  My question is: 
  In 5/6 years time, if we want to sell the house will it be worth having spent the above money? I.e. will a better BER rating have a significant effect on the sale? 
  OR
  Should we just sit tight, live with the house the way it is and keep saving to fund the future move?


  Would appreciate any advice on this.
  Thanks.


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## cbyr1983 (7 Jul 2010)

I'm actually in a similar situation. 

I'm looking to do some selective dry-lining on the cheap.

I don't think you will get the money back on a house that's only worth €230k.

My house is very similar - 3-bed end of terrace. Luckily my mortgage is smaller.

I priced external insulation with Durkan Ecofix. Something like 13k pre-grant. Laughable.

There are numerous problems with doing external insulation. One is the depth of your roofline soffit. If your soffit isn't deep enough they use these "aluminium pressings" that cover the part of the insulation that protrudes over the soffit. It's ridiculous - your wall is out further than your roof.

I had my kitchen dry-lined by a pure cowboy - he used the cheapest stuff avilable and very little depth - max 38mm. (When I think of my ignorance) Even still it is very warm - compared to what it was like previously - it was an ice-box. Same type of construction as your own, flat roof, no cavity.

Dry-lining seems to be fairly cheap - materials anyway - if you go direct labour, but it's disruptive.


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## qwerty1 (7 Jul 2010)

cbyr1983 said:


> I don't think you will get the money back on a house that's only worth €230k.
> .



So you don't think having this done for a better BER rating is worthwhile in terms of sale price?


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## FioBi (7 Jul 2010)

My mum recently had her 3 bed semi externally insulated and I believe the cost was approx 11.5k. She got 4k back in a grant. The house was same as yours poured concrete walls.

She also had attic insulated and a heating controls upgrade.

Her BER rating went from G to B2. 

It all depends on house size etc.. but the quotes you got seem quite low. Be careful as to avail of an SEI Grant the builders have to be registered and the materials they are using have to be NSAI approved.  Some advantages of the external insulation is that there is no internal disruption.  The acrylic finish that is applied to the outside can be in any colour that you want so you are getting your house painted as well.

She had no problem with the guttering etc.. mentioned in an earlier post. Everything was done professionally and she is delighted with the finish. More importantly the house is cool in summer and the heating only has to be turned on for very short periods to heat the house. 

She used a company called McCauley & Bird who are SEI registered


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## FioBi (7 Jul 2010)

Lastly I think the BER rating will affect the sale in the future as vendors will use a low rating as an excuse to ask for money off.


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## Peter Sweeny (7 Jul 2010)

If you know that you are going to sell in the near future, painting, decorating and professionally presenting your property will have as much if not more an effect an increasing the sale price of the property as upgrading the insulation.

For the next year or so you may have to spend an extra few hundred euros more running your heating system that bit extra.

If you are planning to stay in the house indefinitely and you want to improve your quality of life in it, improve the insulation.


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## galwaytt (8 Jul 2010)

qwerty1 said:


> So you don't think having this done for a better BER rating is worthwhile in terms of sale price?


 
You have to consider the value, now, is as-is.  Spending 10k on it, for example, won't increase the sale value by the same amount, if any.

The real arbiter is how long they plan to live in it - if less than 10 years, it's debatable, if more, probably worth it.


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## Newbie! (8 Jul 2010)

Post removed


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## galwaytt (8 Jul 2010)

Honestly, in the current climate, no, because price and funding is the bigger issue. Look at it this way. If there are several houses for sale, all same design, but different BER spec's (A/B/C/whatever...), but the prospective client only has enough funds to buy, say, the C-rated, then that's the one that'll sell. People can't spend money they don't have, no matter what their aspirations.

Now, conversely, if the clients have enough money to buy any of the 5, they'll buy the highest spec for the money, so the higher-rated houses will sell before the lower one, then.

I'd wager there are more of the former potential client over the latter......

The question is, which type of buyer do you think is out there ?

..which brings us back to the time question again.  It'll take longer to find the well-funded buyer, but if time is not a problem.........the opposite is also true.........


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## chippengael (4 Aug 2010)

We had our house externally insulated last winter. It is a 3 bed semi-D. Our neighbor did not do his house so we had to dryline part of the front so we didn't have a large odd-looking step in the front where our house met his. Remember, if you are changing the external look of your house, you need planning permission - I checked this with the planners in Fingal, who then told me that they had never been asked about external insulation before!! This means that a) people assume they don't need planning permision and risk being caught later by either the planners or a neighbor who doesn't like the look of the house and lodges a complaint. 

THe contractors were a nightmare. While they were then registered by SEI, they have since disappeared, apparently because they didn't want to pay for NSAI approval (I have my doubts). 

Anyway, the job was done for €11k. We got €4k from SEI (which took 3 months as we made a mistake on the application). BEware SEI's application deadline, which they notify you of by email weeks in advance, then the day after expiration!

BER went from C3 to C1. I expected more. We have outstanding issues with smells from the downpipe which was covered over with insulation and not vented adequately. The contractor has improved but not solved the issue and has stopped communicating on this issue (having already been paid). 

I logged the temperature in our kitchen before and after the work, and it has not improved as much as I would have wished. I think there are two reasons for this: 

1. Insulating only half the entire building is always a compromise. Our neighbors house still has a vent in every room which introduces cold air into the cavity blocks which I think is impacting our house. We had as many of those stupid vents insulated over as we could (but not where there was an gas boiler/fire). Perhaps we need to foam fill the line where the houses meet, but this should have been done prior to the external insulation. Trickier to do now. 

2. I can feel cold air moving down the stairwell due I think to poorly insulated roof eaves (we have our attic converted). This will be fixed next, along with replacing the boiler and perhaps a large northfacing window. 

Would I do it again? Yeah, but with a different contractor, and I would have drains dealt with differently. External insulation makes most sense from a physics point of view, but the effectiveness of the solution can be easily compromised by factors which may be outside your control. 

Anyway, hope this helps.


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## OkeyDokey (16 Aug 2010)

chippengael said:


> Insulating only half the entire building is always a compromise. Our neighbors house still has a vent in every room which introduces cold air into the cavity blocks which I think is impacting our house. We had as many of those stupid vents insulated over as we could (but not where there was an gas boiler/fire).



Thanks for sharing your experience chippengael. 

I recently had to install these vents in rooms because of mold growing on the walls. I guess you won't have that problem because you won't have warm air and cold walls. 

Have the windows got vents on them. I'm no expert but I was informed by many people that they should be in all rooms.


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## sydthebeat (18 Aug 2010)

consider that the 2011/2012 building regs will require on average all new houses to be A3 ratings... would the costs of upgrades to this level make your dwelling comparably attractive in 10 years??? .... probably not... 

the biggest factor for purchasers is location.....

the BER will only be a factor if similar houses in the area are for sale at the same time as yours... then the purchaser will take the BER into account when deciding.....


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## chippengael (25 Aug 2010)

Frankly we don't care about future value as we want to live in a house where the wind isn't blowing out of the electrical sockets!


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