# Who bought newly built houses last year?



## Brendan Burgess (16 Jun 2021)

from the CSO via Dermot O'Leary https://twitter.com/GBSEconomist/status/1405185380257873924?s=19


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## Brendan Burgess (16 Jun 2021)

I am surprised how few private investors there were.

Maybe private investors have been buying second hand houses?

Brendan


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## kinnjohn (17 Jun 2021)

Private investors % is high enough when you look at it another way the possibly make up close to 9% of people buying who already owned  or did own property, they are in there along with people trading up or down or moving house, remember there was only around 29% left if you remove the FTB,
Close to 40% possibly never came on the market or open to private investors in the first place,


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## Mocame (17 Jun 2021)

The private investors are largely concentrated in Dublin and I think these are nationwide figures?

The bigger issue in my view is the scale of the purchases from the market by local authorities and approved housing bodies.  They are subject to price limits for the dwellings they purchase so these dwellings would have been more likely to have been purchased by first time buyers in my view than those bought by funds.  The latter are generally apartments built to lower space standards (built to rent standards) than apartments intended for sale to home owners.


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## NoRegretsCoyote (17 Jun 2021)

Brendan Burgess said:


> Maybe private investors have been buying second hand houses?


So the only investors are cash buyers going for second-hand homes? Unlikely.

The more plausible story is that there is just very little acquisition of houses anymore by small-time landlords at all.


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## Purple (21 Jun 2021)

With 21% of all purchases the State is the biggest competitor to the private buyer and the main factor pushing up prices.
If you are looking to buy a home your taxes are being used to price you out of the market. Nice.


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## kinnjohn (21 Jun 2021)

Purple said:


> With 21% of all purchases the State is the biggest competitor to the private buyer and the main factor pushing up prices.
> If you are looking to buy a home your taxes are being used to price you out of the market. Nice.


you can be sure the people paying the most tax must be happy enough to leave things the way they are otherwise there would be changes,


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## Purple (21 Jun 2021)

kinnjohn said:


> you can be sure the people paying the most tax must be happy enough to leave things the way they are otherwise there would be changes,


They are a tiny proportion of people and are too busy working to engage in lobbying.
Who is happy to pay more than half their income in tax? I'm certainly not, especially when I see how much of it is wasted and goes towards feathering their own protected middle class nests rather than helping the truly needy.


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## kinnjohn (21 Jun 2021)

I agree 100%
But they have massive power at election time  the can engage in lobbying by opening their door and challenging the party's they voted for the last time around,
 I find the foot soldiers from the main parties including SF who come knocking at kennjohn door, for the most part, are system users,

I know foot soldiers for most of the main parties  they seldom if ever come across people who pay the most tax complaining or expecting real change, they are trained to make them feel important and leave their voting card,

they use the parish pump sketch showing a politician standing on a wall  all the people too busy working to notice and getting screwed over a million times standing there listening to the politicians,  they are trained to spend little or no time on the Deluded  and chase the  protected middle-class vote and the people gaming the system votes,

between elections high taxpayers will be listening to politicians talking about lowering tax on the high taxpayer so their foot soldiers  can make the same promise to the deluded at the next election,

When you read between the lines the report Brendan linked I fear we are not interested in solving the housing problem ,


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## lff12 (10 Aug 2021)

Mocame said:


> The private investors are largely concentrated in Dublin and I think these are nationwide figures?
> 
> The bigger issue in my view is the scale of the purchases from the market by local authorities and approved housing bodies.  They are subject to price limits for the dwellings they purchase so these dwellings would have been more likely to have been purchased by first time buyers in my view than those bought by funds.  The latter are generally apartments built to lower space standards (built to rent standards) than apartments intended for sale to home owners.


When exactly was there "built to rent" standards? They've always been the same regardless of the intended purpose of the unit. The only difference in sizes occur if the overall development is of a certain size (according to the changes of about 5 years ago).


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## lff12 (10 Aug 2021)

kinnjohn said:


> I know foot soldiers for most of the main parties  they seldom if ever come across people who pay the most tax complaining or expecting real change, they are trained to make them feel important and leave their voting card,


Canvassers from the main parties are not "trained" to do anything. Perhaps SF have the money for this, nobody else does.

Don't disagree that the real will to change the system isn't there. Its not. The vast majority of property owners have most of if not all their wealth wrapped up in the family home, and profit from prices going higher. Hard left candidates are chasing the middle class vote every bit as much as the older parties and that's why they focus on issues such as renting, build-to-let and investors - issues that have no impact whatsoever on the pampered home owner who isn't likely to be impacted much by such things, but look virtuous without really having to think about the consequences.


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## Mocame (10 Aug 2021)

@lff12 -The separate standards for build to rent developments are outlined in Chapter Five of this document:


			https://www.opr.ie/wp-content/uploads/2019/08/2018-Design-Standards-for-New-Apartments-1.pdf
		


They specify that unlike other developments BTR developments are subject to lower space standards, have no requirement to provide car parking and are not subject to any restrictions on the dwelling mix which mean they all be one bedroom units .


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## Purple (11 Aug 2021)

lff12 said:


> Don't disagree that the real will to change the system isn't there. Its not. The vast majority of property owners have most of if not all their wealth wrapped up in the family home, and profit from prices going higher. Hard left candidates are chasing the middle class vote every bit as much as the older parties and that's why they focus on issues such as renting, build-to-let and investors - issues that have no impact whatsoever on the pampered home owner who isn't likely to be impacted much by such things, but look virtuous without really having to think about the consequences.


We like to feel rich and house price inflation does that but high property prices are bad for the economy and for society.
We need to about triple property tax or better again have a wealth tax which includes the value of family homes and pensions (including the open market value of defined benefit pensions).
At the same time we need to reduce marginal income tax rates and increase the threshold at which the highest rate kicks in. We need to stop treating income as wealth. we have massively concentrated wealth amongst those people who don’t create it. That can’t end well.


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## Purple (12 Aug 2021)

Does anyone know what percentage of the national housing stock changes hands each year?
I remember reading that it was a little over 1% in an average year.


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## kinnjohn (12 Aug 2021)

Purple said:


> We like to feel rich and house price inflation does that but high property prices are bad for the economy and for society.
> We need to about triple property tax or better again have a wealth tax which includes the value of family homes and pensions (including the open market value of defined benefit pensions).
> At the same time we need to reduce marginal income tax rates and increase the threshold at which the highest rate kicks in. We need to stop treating income as wealth. we have massively concentrated wealth amongst those people who don’t create it. That can’t end well.


There is only one  political party with any chance of gaining power that may agree with most of what you say,


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## Purple (13 Aug 2021)

kinnjohn said:


> There is only one  political party with any chance of gaining power that may agree with most of what you say,


They want to increase income taxes ans their wealth tax excludes family homes and pensions. They will make the wealth gap worse.


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