# bar open after closing hours



## cleverclogs7 (27 Dec 2008)

What happens if a bar stays open AFTER closing time and the owner is attacked bY one of the drinkers.
What penalties could the owner face ?


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## colm (28 Dec 2008)

Unless it was a very serious assault its unlikely the owner would inform the Guards & even less likely he would be pressing charges. I am sure there would also be issues with insurance if there was damage to the premises.
Its an interesting one. Some more information would be nice.


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## Padraigb (28 Dec 2008)

cleverclogs7 said:


> What happens if a bar stays open AFTER closing time and the owner is attacked bY one of the drinkers.
> What penalties could the owner face ?



This is a strange question!

Why should the owner be penalised for being assaulted? [I presume that is what you mean by "attacked".]

A publican can face charges for allowing after-hours drinking on the premises. If, however, a publican brought a complaint against a customer for assault, it seems to me unlikely that the fact that it happened during after-hours drinking would make any difference whatsoever -- nor should it.


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## colm (28 Dec 2008)

But they have both broken the law. Why should one law be enforced & the other not.
What happened to everyone is equal under the law?


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## cleverclogs7 (28 Dec 2008)

it was my brothers bar.he has cracked ribs.didnt inform police.getting married tuesday.no damage to bar.just a local got a bit to drunk and took it out on the bar owner(brother)


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## theresa1 (28 Dec 2008)

That's what he got for being greedy!


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## cleverclogs7 (28 Dec 2008)

Thats an awful thing to say.think if it was a member of your own family.shame on you.the locals were having a bit of a do for the christmas.


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## colm (28 Dec 2008)

cleverclogs7 said:


> Thats an awful thing to say.think if it was a member of your own family.shame on you.the locals were having a bit of a do for the christmas.


 
I would presume the question was a legal one & not a moral one.


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## rmelly (28 Dec 2008)

cleverclogs7 said:


> Thats an awful thing to say.think if it was a member of your own family.shame on you.the locals were having a bit of a do for the christmas.


 
...and (unfortunately) breaking the licensing law in the process - were the drinkers paying full price for the drink? Hardly a 'christmas do' if they were - sounds more like a greedy publican.


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## BigCon (28 Dec 2008)

rmelly said:


> sounds more like a greedy publican.



Is there any other type?


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## melvin123 (29 Dec 2008)

Wow, it's a bit crowded up on the high moral ground, are we to asume that all these people would get up and walk out of a pub half way through a drink when the clock goes past closing and drinking up time? To say the guy deserves it for serving up a few drinks after closing is not cool in my book.


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## LouthLass (29 Dec 2008)

melvin123 said:


> Wow, it's a bit crowded up on the high moral ground, are we to asume that all these people would get up and walk out of a pub half way through a drink when the clock goes past closing and drinking up time? To say the guy deserves it for serving up a few drinks after closing is not cool in my book.




+1.  To say that someone deserves a physical attack just because they were also breaking the law by serving after hours is not a very nice thing to say!  Would you say that a prostitute who got raped and beaten also deserved it because she was 'working' at the time?  I wouldn't have thought so, at least I hope no one would think so.  Two wrongs do not make a right.  The OP was looking for legal advice if my understanding is correct, not the morals and ethics behind it.  

IMHO, the local who attacked her brother should be reported regardless of the circumstances, he shouldn't be allowed to get away with such brutish behaviour.


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## Padraigb (29 Dec 2008)

I don't drink much in pubs (much prefer the odd glass of wine with food to pints at the bar). But I don't get very upset by breaches of the licensing law. Yes, it's against the law, and the publican and the "found-ons" can take their chances on being caught and charged -- it's the rules of the game. But as long as the punters don't drive home over the limit, I think it's no big deal, and my moral sense is not going to be outraged.

Assault, however, is a much bigger deal in my book.


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## Pee (29 Dec 2008)

louthlass said:


> +1. To say that someone deserves a physical attack just because they were also breaking the law by serving after hours is not a very nice thing to say! Would you say that a prostitute who got raped and beaten also deserved it because she was 'working' at the time? I wouldn't have thought so, at least i hope no one would think so. Two wrongs do not make a right. The op was looking for legal advice if my understanding is correct, not the morals and ethics behind it.
> 
> Imho, the local who attacked her brother should be reported regardless of the circumstances, he shouldn't be allowed to get away with such brutish behaviour.


 
+ 1



padraigb said:


> i don't drink much in pubs (much prefer the odd glass of wine with food to pints at the bar). But i don't get very upset by breaches of the licensing law. Yes, it's against the law, and the publican and the "found-ons" can take their chances on being caught and charged -- it's the rules of the game. But as long as the punters don't drive home over the limit, i think it's no big deal, and my moral sense is not going to be outraged.
> 
> Assault, however, is a much bigger deal in my book.


 
+1


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## z103 (29 Dec 2008)

> just a local got a bit to drunk and took it out on the bar owner


Interesting to note that the publican served the alcohol that caused the inebriation that caused the violence.


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## ClubMan (30 Dec 2008)

cleverclogs7 said:


> What happens if a bar stays open AFTER closing time and the owner is attacked bY one of the drinkers.


Didn't know _AAM _was popular in Liverpool!


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## Vanilla (30 Dec 2008)

Your brother could take a civil action against the perpetrator but usually it is better if criminal charges are brought first ( successfully), then the civil claim is pretty much open and shut. Assuming the individual is a mark.

I have sympathy for publicans as regards after hours- as illegality goes its a pretty tame charge. That is if one accepts that each individual is responsible for their own actions and we do not blame the publican for TPs getting drunk to the point of being violent or incapable etc. Publicans are under pressure to have afterhours from regulars who will defect otherwise.


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## rmelly (31 Dec 2008)

Vanilla said:


> Your brother could take a civil action against the perpetrator but usually it is better if criminal charges are brought first ( successfully), then the civil claim is pretty much open and shut. Assuming the individual is a mark.
> 
> I have sympathy for publicans as regards after hours- as illegality goes its a pretty tame charge. That is if one accepts that each individual is responsible for their own actions and we do not blame the publican for TPs getting drunk to the point of being violent or incapable etc. Publicans are under pressure to have afterhours from regulars who will defect otherwise.


 
What's the situation with insurance (e.g. public liability insurance or a claim to cover damage caused to the pub by a punter) in a case of out of hours drinking - would the insurer pay up?


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## europhile (31 Dec 2008)

I think it's illegal to serve alcohol to someone who is drunk - whatever the definition of "drunk" is.


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## rmelly (31 Dec 2008)

europhile said:


> I think it's illegal to serve alcohol to someone who is drunk - whatever the definition of "drunk" is.


 
I guess if someone is coherent enough to order a drink, or one of his mates can order him/her a drink, he/she is not drunk?


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## rmelly (31 Dec 2008)

melvin123 said:


> Wow, it's a bit crowded up on the high moral ground, are we to asume that all these people would get up and walk out of a pub half way through a drink when the clock goes past closing and drinking up time? To say the guy deserves it for serving up a few drinks after closing is not cool in my book.


 
I think one person said anything about the landlord 'deserving it' or similar, so relax.


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## mathepac (31 Dec 2008)

europhile said:


> I think it's illegal to serve alcohol to someone who is drunk - whatever the definition of "drunk" is.


Yes it is. Here is one piece of legislation - http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/2003/en/act/pub/0031/sec0004.html#partii-sec4
and here is the definition of a "drunken person" = http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/2003/en/act/pub/0031/sec0002.html#parti-sec2


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## ClubMan (31 Dec 2008)

> “drunken person” means a person who is intoxicated to such an extent as would give rise to a reasonable apprehension that the person might endanger himself or herself or any other person, and “drunk” and “drunkenness” are to be construed accordingly;


Why on earth is the bit in red a potential offence!?


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## mathepac (31 Dec 2008)

I don't know but apparently its an arrestable offence. 

The old "drunk and incapable" offence or some such words now reads as the bit you highlighted in red above.


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## z103 (31 Dec 2008)

> Why on earth is the bit in red a potential offence!?


Maybe because the state will also try to protect its citizens to some degree, whether they like or appreciate it or not.
(Eg. guards picking up a drunk and incapable youth sleeping in the gutter and putting them in the cell for the night)
Is suicide also an offence?


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## europhile (31 Dec 2008)

After the legislation was introduced, a couple of dodgy pubs in the north inner city were prosecuted.  I'd have liked to have seen the Gardai trying it in the Shelbourne Hotel or Doheny & Nesbitt.


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## S.L.F (31 Dec 2008)

rmelly said:


> I guess if someone is coherent enough to order a drink, or one of his mates can order him/her a drink, he/she is not drunk?



At a certain stage of the night when we are all plastered, your voice slows down, you forget what it was you were talking about, you end up talking through your hat basically.

I have a friend who is a barman.

He tells me he is fluent in that language.

OP I believe your brother should not report the lad to the Gardai he should be barred nothing more, lets face facts what are the Gardai going to do?

The most he will get is a caution.

Leave well enough alone.


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## rmelly (31 Dec 2008)

S.L.F said:


> At a certain stage of the night when we are all plastered, your voice slows down, you forget what it was you were talking about, you end up talking through your hat basically.
> 
> I have a friend who is a barman.
> 
> He tells me he is fluent in that language.


 
Exactly, and when has that ever stopped a publican serving someone?


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