# Should I patent before I go to Dublin Enterprise?



## Pope John 11 (13 Oct 2009)

Just one question. I have an idea for a patent. I have researched it & it seems nothing has been done before, at least I think. I have only researched it via the web, in the english language.

Should i go ahead & patent it, & if so should I do it before meeting up with Dublin Enterprise Board or Hothouse DIT or NovaUCD.

Unfortunately a patent is no good unless u can do something with it. Is it possible for me to convince a very large world wide company to take me up on my patent, & if so what should I be negotiating for


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## Squonk (13 Oct 2009)

*Re: Patent before you go to Dublin Enterprise*

No company will pay anything for a patent that doesn't have a working prototype to prove the concept.


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## Pope John 11 (13 Oct 2009)

*Re: Patent before you go to Dublin Enterprise*



Squonk said:


> No company will pay anything for a patent that doesn't have a working prototype to prove the concept.


 
Thanks for that Squonk.  Does that mean I should progress with a working type & specification & go ahead & patent it.

My idea is simple, its an addition to something that is manufactured worldwide, but it will have a lot of benefits.

Like I said previously, what steps should I take initially, get it patented prior to going to several start up business boards


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## Squonk (13 Oct 2009)

*Re: Patent before you go to Dublin Enterprise*

File a provisional patent first (~€1k). That will give you 1 year to decide whether you want to go ahead and submit a full patent (expensive). You can use that year to flesh out the idea more. You should speak to no one until you have the provisional patent filed.
As a further safeguard, I would also suggest having an NDA (non-disclosure agreement) in place even after the provisional patent is filed. PS I am not a patent attorney but I do have several patents. I would suggest speaking with a proper authorithy on this if you're serious.


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## woodbine (13 Oct 2009)

*Re: Patent before you go to Dublin Enterprise*

http://www.enterprise-ireland.com/N...PropertyPatentingandExploitinganInvention.doc

an interesting document from Enterprise Ireland. 


best of luck with your idea and make sure you keep it to yourself for now.


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## Pope John 11 (13 Oct 2009)

*Re: Patent before you go to Dublin Enterprise*



Squonk said:


> File a provisional patent first (~€1k). That will give you 1 year to decide whether you want to go ahead and submit a full patent (expensive). You can use that year to flesh out the idea more. You should speak to no one until you have the provisional patent filed.
> As a further safeguard, I would also suggest having an NDA (non-disclosure agreement) in place even after the provisional patent is filed. PS I am not a patent attorney but I do have several patents. I would suggest speaking with a proper authorithy on this if you're serious.


 
Can you tell me what is the difference between filing for a provisional patent & the full patent, besides the cost of course. 

Will the provisional patent tell me that the idea is secure for me.

Whats the price of a full patent, from your experience


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## Pope John 11 (13 Oct 2009)

*Re: Patent before you go to Dublin Enterprise*



woodbine said:


> http://www.enterprise-ireland.com/N...PropertyPatentingandExploitinganInvention.doc
> 
> an interesting document from Enterprise Ireland.
> 
> ...


 
Cheers for that woodbine, yes I thought as much, I'm in a situation so if I apply too early, I might not be ready in one year, or if I don't apply now someone else may ponder on the idea.

Its unbelieveable to think of an idea, know that it should sell, its simple with great benefits. Fund raising & convincing manufacturers to alter their design will be my biggest stumbling blocks & should one just go to one manufacturer or several. Any thoughts there.


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## Purple (13 Oct 2009)

*Re: Patent before you go to Dublin Enterprise*

Talk to Enterprise Ireland; they have funding and free help.


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## Pope John 11 (13 Oct 2009)

*Re: Patent before you go to Dublin Enterprise*



Purple said:


> Talk to Enterprise Ireland; they have funding and free help.


 
Purple, thanks for that, but should I secure the preliminary patent first or should I get an NDA from Enterprise Ireland

I have no problems talking to them, but should I be "selling" them my idea?


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## Pope John 11 (13 Oct 2009)

*Re: Patent before you go to Dublin Enterprise*

Unfortunately, I have never done this before, & I am concerned that the idea will be stolen from me. What are the necessary steps that I should take. Should I talk to Dublin Enterprise or DIT Hothouse


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## Purple (13 Oct 2009)

*Re: Patent before you go to Dublin Enterprise*



Pope John 11 said:


> Purple, thanks for that, but should I secure the preliminary patent first or should I get an NDA from Enterprise Ireland
> 
> I have no problems talking to them, but should I be "selling" them my idea?



They will not steal your idea of leak it into the public domain but if you would feel happier get then to sign an NDA first. You should get one


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## Squonk (13 Oct 2009)

*Re: Patent before you go to Dublin Enterprise*

I concur with Purple. From the EI document "If it is necessary to talk to technical specialists or others in order to obtain assistance during the development of the invention, this should be done on the basis of confidentiality. People should be informed that the information is strictly confidential and asked to sign a simple document undertaking not to disclose the information until given permission to do so."


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## Pope John 11 (13 Oct 2009)

*Re: Patent before you go to Dublin Enterprise*



Squonk said:


> I concur with Purple. From the EI document "If it is necessary to talk to technical specialists or others in order to obtain assistance during the development of the invention, this should be done on the basis of confidentiality. People should be informed that the information is strictly confidential and asked to sign a simple document undertaking not to disclose the information until given permission to do so."


 
Thanks for that, I still find it hard to believe that if someone comes up with an idea that one can hold it against themselves to say something to a friend or a wife etc.

Do Dublin Enerprise nomally look for % of the profits, or how does it work

Will they check up on patents to see if has been done before?


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## Pope John 11 (13 Oct 2009)

The document from the D Enterprise states 

"If however the second person makes a positive technical contribution to the solution of the identified problem then he/she may well have a case to be at least a joint inventor."

Should I make sur I get a written document so, outlining what rights Dublin Enterprise have on the invention


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## Squonk (13 Oct 2009)

Pope John 11 said:


> The document from the D Enterprise states
> 
> "If however the second person makes a positive technical contribution to the solution of the identified problem then he/she may well have a case to be at least a joint inventor."
> 
> Should I make sur I get a written document so, outlining what rights Dublin Enterprise have on the invention


 Why would Dublin Enterprise be making a _TECHNICAL_ contribution? They will only give advice on the patent proceess or manufacturing issues, not necessarily the content.


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## Pope John 11 (13 Oct 2009)

Squonk said:


> Why would Dublin Enterprise be making a _TECHNICAL_ contribution? They will only give advice on the patent proceess or manufacturing issues, not necessarily the content.


 
Have a look Squonk at the above document, yes I would hope that they would not be giving a technical contribution, but if they suddenly say to you to change this that way & this another way, are they not contributing to the prototype

Or are you saying that I go in with the prototype, be happy with it, don't change it at all, & say to them that I only need to address the strategy for the development with a view to financing it later


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## Purple (13 Oct 2009)

If you have the cash to get a prototype made then just download an NDA and get in touch with a manufacturer and get the thing done. Then go to EI and look for their halp with the patent. If you need help with a manufacturer PM me.


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## Pope John 11 (13 Oct 2009)

Purple said:


> If you have the cash to get a prototype made then just download an NDA and get in touch with a manufacturer and get the thing done. Then go to EI and look for their halp with the patent. If you need help with a manufacturer PM me.


 
Cheers for that Purple. I will let you know if I require manufacturing at some stage.


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## Tarek (30 Nov 2009)

Hi Pope... Just reading all the posts in this thread and they are sound, I was wondering though how did you progress since the last post? Did you manage to get in touch with DE yet?


TK


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## folly (8 Dec 2009)

Hello Pope
I was just running a search on aam, as I am in a similar position to you!  (Except my idea requires a straight forward manufacturing (not a modification to an existing product, but is a new product)). Just wishing you luck, and asking if you wouldn't mind updating this post as you progress as it will give me an idea of what route to go.  
Watching with interest.
folly


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## Pope John 11 (12 Dec 2009)

Tarek said:


> Hi Pope... Just reading all the posts in this thread and they are sound, I was wondering though how did you progress since the last post? Did you manage to get in touch with DE yet?TK


,

Tarek, note that I have not progressed any further with the idea, its on hold at present.


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## Pope John 11 (12 Dec 2009)

folly said:


> Hello Pope
> I was just running a search on aam, as I am in a similar position to you! (Except my idea requires a straight forward manufacturing (not a modification to an existing product, but is a new product)). Just wishing you luck, and asking if you wouldn't mind updating this post as you progress as it will give me an idea of what route to go.
> Watching with interest.
> folly


 
Folly, see my previous thread.


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## folly (13 Dec 2009)

Thanks Pope
Wish you luck with it.


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