# Can a bank stop a standing order without informing you?



## watermelon (19 Oct 2006)

I live in the UK and have some accounts at home. A standing order to my SSIA was cancelled sometime last March without my knowledge. I haven't been very good at keepin on top of my accounts while here as I was so busy trying to get settled etc. 

So basically legally, can a bank stop a standing order without telling you? 

Im after loosing out on about 2k.


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## ClubMan (19 Oct 2006)

Moved to Banking, Borrowing, Budgeting and Credit Cards


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## ClubMan (19 Oct 2006)

watermelon said:


> So basically legally, can a bank stop a standing order without telling you?


Were there any extenuating circumstances - e.g. no funds to pay the _SO _at some stage? What do the terms & conditions of your account say about _SOs_ and situations in which they might be cancelled by the financial institution?


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## Satanta (19 Oct 2006)

ClubMan said:


> Were there any extenuating circumstances - e.g. no funds to pay the _SO _at some stage? What do the terms & conditions of your account say about _SOs_ and situations in which they might be cancelled by the financial institution?


Usually a condition (such as three missed payments) attached to SOs. Check your own Ts&Cs to make sure.

Have you contacted the bank about it? 
I seem to remember previous posts about similiar errors and the bank did offer to make up the loss due to the error (at least the topup amount, not sure if they covered any gains due to the fund itself).


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## LIVERLIPS (19 Oct 2006)

Ulster bank cancelled one i had set up for our television company they are not a big one and i only noticed when their invoice showed outstanding after a few months. I called into Ulster bank and when it was set up the staff member in the branch set it up to run for 12 months only. So i had to set it all up again in future when i am setting them up i am going to check their form as they do a mistake and we have to run around and sort out and you do not even get an apology.


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## watermelon (20 Oct 2006)

*Can a bank stop a standing order?*

Please see this thread for the original question.

http://www.askaboutmoney.com/showthread.php?t=39243

I got onto my bank about the T+Cs. It is standard banking practice to cancel a standing order if funds are not in the account however I find it really hard to digest that they dont notify the customer? The T+C say nothing about not being obliged to tell the customer. Does this mean its implicit? 

Also, if AIB are managing my SSIA account and no payments have been going into since last March are they not obliged to notify you of this discrepency?


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## ClubMan (20 Oct 2006)

Please don't open new threads on the same topic. I merged the new thread that you created into this original one.


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## moneyhoney (20 Oct 2006)

*Re: Can a bank stop a standing order?*



watermelon said:


> Please see this thread for the original question.
> 
> http://www.askaboutmoney.com/showthread.php?t=39243
> 
> ...



Not meaning to defend the bank, but in what set of cirumstances do you expect that they should notify the customer that a standing order has been returned? How many times should a standing order be returned due to insufficient funds before you expect that they should be able to cancel it or inform the customer? In effect, it's up to you to maintain your bank account and make sure that there is money in it to meet the standing orders that you set up from your account. Including your SSIA.


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## watermelon (20 Oct 2006)

ClubMan said:


> Please don't open new threads on the same topic. I merged the new thread that you created into this original one.




Im sorry. I just dont know the layout of this


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## watermelon (20 Oct 2006)

One month early last year I know that I had no money for my SSIA ( just moved to the UK and couldn't afford it) so I knew one month of that meant that my SO would fail because of no funds. Barclays failed to set up a direct debit on my request to my feeder account for my SSIA. I noticed this after two months. So Im thinking if 3 non-consectutive months my SO failed because of no money in the account ( once my fault, twice Barclays fault), then do I have a good argument to claim compensation from Barclays on loss of savings and government bonus? 


Do SO get cancelled after 3 consectutive times or just any 3 times? 

I know Im not explaining it well. Im just distraught over my loss.


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## watermelon (20 Oct 2006)

*Re: Can a bank stop a standing order?*



moneyhoney said:


> Not meaning to defend the bank, but in what set of cirumstances do you expect that they should notify the customer that a standing order has been returned? How many times should a standing order be returned due to insufficient funds before you expect that they should be able to cancel it or inform the customer? In effect, it's up to you to maintain your bank account and make sure that there is money in it to meet the standing orders that you set up from your account. Including your SSIA.



I agree with you totally. 

A good shot of this is my fault but Im also wondering because of Barclays failing to send two months was it an attributing factor that caused for these SO to be cancelled. If so, then I think I could make a case to the Barclays. 

PS Ive never met such an incompetent crowd in my life. I asked a girl in Personal Banking if she could convert sterling to euro for me and she just blinked looking at me. "I cant, I dont know how" she says.


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## moneyhoney (20 Oct 2006)

Here's some info on how to make a complaint against UK bank e.g. Barclay's

[broken link removed]


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## watermelon (20 Oct 2006)

moneyhoney said:


> Here's some info on how to make a complaint against UK bank e.g. Barclay's
> 
> [broken link removed]



Cheers, thanks.

Im already looking for them to waiver some fees but Im thinking if they attributed to it then I should get more.


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## Satanta (20 Oct 2006)

watermelon said:


> Do SO get cancelled after 3 consectutive times or just any 3 times?


If your asking this in relation to the post I made stating 3 SOs missed then please go check your Ts&Cs immediatly! 

I posted that as an *unqualified example of something which may cause it*. I have no idea what conditions may be on your account (possibly one missed SO in which case it's all down to the first missed payment!). I can't even remember where the figure of three payments came from (I believe I may have come across someone mention this on another thread but I by no means stand over it as being an industry standard!).


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## watermelon (20 Oct 2006)

Here they are [broken link removed]

When I search for standing order all I get is that they may be cancelled by the customer informing them in writing. 

Ive searched for SO and the above is all I get. Ive searched for cancel and Im not seeing anything relevant to SO and 3 strikes and an out. Ill keep looking however.


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## smmb (21 Oct 2006)

Regardless of whether the Bank made a mistake or not under SSIA rules, an individual must be resident or ordinarily resident for tax purposes over the five years their SSIA account was open. So it you were tax resident in the UK then you lose your SSIA anyway.


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## Perplexed (22 Oct 2006)

If you read the rules I think it says at least 3 of the 5yrs. They do allow for people going away for some of the time.

Watermelon: When you sign up for a s/o - with BOI anyway - the terms say that you will at all times have the money in your a/c to meet said s/o. With BOI definitely a s/o will cancel automatically if you miss 3 payments. The system actually does it so it's not a case of somebody deciding to do it on you.

Can you do a s/o from England to Ireland ? You can't the other way round as it's a different jurisdiction.

Banks do err, but in this case, I think it was totally up to you to keep an eye on things. Intenet banking is available all over the world so there's no excuse for not keeping an eye on your a/c.


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## smmb (22 Oct 2006)

Residency requirements from Revenue website - 

_When an individual commenced an SSIA he/she was obliged to be Irish resident at that time. Furthermore the individual is required to be either resident or ordinarily resident in the State throughout the period from commencement and ending on the date on which the declaration on maturity is completed. An individual is resident or ordinarily resident on a day if he/she is resident, or __as the case may be ordinary resident, for the tax year in which that day falls._
​
*When is an individual Irish resident?​*_An individual is Irish resident for a year of assessment if either-_
_1. he/she is present in the State for 183_​​_ days or more in the tax year in question, or_​_
__2. _​_he/ she is in aggregate present in the State for 280 days for the tax year in question and the previous tax year and at least 30 of those days fall into each tax year2._​_
_


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## ClubMan (22 Oct 2006)

Note that there is an existing key thread on _SSIA _residency rules.


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## liteweight (23 Oct 2006)

AIB allow you to set up standing orders on line now.


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## intermission (23 Oct 2006)

watermelon said:


> Barclays failed to set up a direct debit on my request to my feeder account for my SSIA. I noticed this after two months. So Im thinking if 3 non-consectutive months my SO failed because of no money in the account ( once my fault, twice Barclays fault), then do I have a good argument to claim compensation from Barclays on loss of savings and government bonus?


 
You can't set up direct debits or standing orders across international boundaries yet as there is no European clearing system. The banks in Europe are investigating this at the moment, for example:

[broken link removed]

You would have needed to ask Barclays to set up a regular electronic funds transfer via SWIFT or something like that. Not all banks have the facility to automate regular payments of this kind.

I transfer money from an Ulster Bank account in Dublin to a sterling account in the North on a monthly basis and I have to go into the bank to do it.


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