# Desperately need advice please, re o2 bill



## lew247 (9 Oct 2008)

Hi all, sorry my first post if probably going to be complicated but I'm writing on behalf of my son who lives in Ireland and I'm in the UK
I know the laws here very well regarding this problem but desperately need advice as to the laws in Ireland, and what options are open.

Basically he is 22, got a phone with o2 on contract (stupid I know)
I only found out about this today.
He took the contract out sometime around November last year when he was working
he cant remember the tariff he was on, or how much his bill was meant to be each month.
He aparently had several months where he accumulated around €600 EACH month in calls and texts.
I'm actually horrified about this, the fact o2 would let the bill get this high in ONE month let alone several, especially as it was a new contract.

Needless to say he got behind with the payments, and it got to about €2000 I cant give exact figures and he cant remember, I;ll tell you why after.
He called them and made an arrangement to pay €100 a week appx, but then it went down to €20 a week when he still couldn't catch up as he was by then out of a job and unemployed.

At the moment he is visiting me here for a week or so because he has just been diagnosed with a tumor and he is only 22, so when he goes back next week to start treatment not only will he still be unable to pay massive amounts of money, but he will have to go on long term sick.


To top it all up, he stays with his gran, who today recieved a letter from Cabot Financial Ireland stating they are a debt collection agency and he owes them €1883.81 for the o2 bill.
He has to pay immediately or it goes to the colicitors to seek judgement, and then baliffs etc.

To top that they then rang his gran today and not caring about data protection at all, they then told her that he has to pay the bill immediately or they will send baliffs round to collect goods to pay the bill.

He only stays there, he owns nothing at all apart from the clothes he wears.

IF he was here I'd sort it in a few minutes, by telling him to ignore it, I'd write him a letter of discpute to the company wanting the money demanding to see a certified signed copy of the original agreement, along with a list of all bills and payments.
Then depending on what was in it I'd either tell them I want the lot dropped because of it was partly their neglegance in letting the bill get that high on a new contract, or possibly offer to settle at the rate of £1 a month.
This would effectively get them off his back, they could never take him to court because he has offered payment terms.

But I have no idea how it works over there.
Any advice or suggestions please?
and please no running himn down stating the obvious like he shoudlnt have made the calls, none of us are perfect and in hindsight he would obviously agree that should be the case, but he has enough on his plate at the moment worrying about his health and how thats going to end.. so please sensible suggestions please


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## Sue Ellen (9 Oct 2008)

Hi,

Welcome to AAM.

Sorry to hear about your son's serious health problem and his credit issues with 02.

It might be a good idea for you to contact possibly www.comreg.ie (the regulator here) or www.mabs.ie.  MABS is a national, free, confidential and independent service for people in debt or in danger of getting into debt.

Hopefully you can get some advice from either of these sources and alleviate the stress that the whole family seems to be suffering because of this bill.

Best Wishes,

Sue Ellen.


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## lew247 (10 Oct 2008)

Thanks for that, the problem is he aparently had been to mabs (never heard of them before he said it) the problem with them was aparently they did all the talking to o2 and didnt tell him exactly what was going on

so now we are left at the stage where we have a figure he "aparently" owes

What legal right has he to ask for a copy of a written contract he signed, along with a full copy of the terms and conditions, and also a list of all his bills, and payments made to o2 to date.

and a copy of any paperwork they have assigning it to the debt collectors?

If he is allowed to have the above, how would we go about getting it? i.e who do we approach, and how much does it cost?


Once I see a copy of the contract, the terms and conditions, bill amounts and payments I'll be in a much better position as to whether I say to him, tough it has to be paid but I'll try and negotiate a low payment you can afford, or it may be that I approach comreg because I consider o2 aided to the bill getting that high by not monitoring a new young persons account.
I honestly dont know how I'[ll handle this till I see paperwork.


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## rmelly (10 Oct 2008)

How soon was it between taking the account out, and his first €600 bill?

Have you tried setting up an account on their website? If he still has the phone, he can register: [broken link removed]

This should give access to previous bills, payments, tariff details etc.


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## ubiquitous (10 Oct 2008)

lew247 said:


> At the moment he is visiting me here for a week or so because he has just been diagnosed with a tumor and he is only 22, so when he goes back next week to start treatment not only will he still be unable to pay massive amounts of money, but he will have to go on long term sick.


Confirm this in writing to O2, comreg and the debt collection agency, in each case accompanied by a copy of a doctor's cert or letter confirming your son's condition. They may well drop the case when they learn of these circumstances. Its worth a try.


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## una (10 Oct 2008)

Hi,

Sorry to hear about your son's illness. Your son is entitled to a copy of the data which O2 hold about him.

I took the text below from the data proctection comissioners web site.

[broken link removed]
"Under Section 4 of the Data Protection Acts, you also have a right to get a copy of your personal information.  This  applies to all types of information -for example, written details about you  held electronically or on paper, photographs and CCTV images.   You are also entitled to know where the information was obtained, how it has  been  used and if it has been passed on to anyone else.  All you need do is write to the person or organisation holding the information.  You need not quote the Data Protection Acts, but it is a good idea to do so.  Your letter might read something like:
_Dear ...
I wish to make an access request under the Data Protection Acts 1988 and 2003 for a copy of any information you keep about me, on computer or in manual form.  I am making this request under section 4 of the Data Protection Acts._​You should also include any additional details that  would help to locate your information - for example, a customer account number or  staff number. You may be asked for evidence of your identity. "
​Best of luck.


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## lew247 (10 Oct 2008)

una said:


> Hi,
> 
> Sorry to hear about your son's illness. Your son is entitled to a copy of the data which O2 hold about him.
> 
> ...


 
Thanks that is exactly what I was trying to find

does anyone know if there is a fee for getting that information, or is it a statuatory fee? and if so how much?

In answer to the first question the first bill was over €600, I'm going to get him to send me the little paperwork once he gets back home next week and I'll send the letter to comreg and o2, as being a reliable and responsable company they should have queried the first bill once it got above a preset limit (i'd say around €100) and possibly even blocked the phone when it wasnt paid and not just let it all mount up without querying it.
I'm going to write a letter for him telling the debt collection comany that he doesn't recognise the debt and is disputing it, and to send a copy of the original signed contract and ALL bills and statements for the amount they are trying to get, along with a certified copy of authorisation from o2 to do this, or a certified copy of the contraact from o2 selling the debt to them.

I dont know how it works over there, but here, if the collection company cannot supply all the above items then they cant collect the debt, as he doesn't owe them anything.

Unless there is a better option?


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## Bronte (10 Oct 2008)

If you are worried about the bailiffs calling around I'd imagine that's just a threat.  In any case if they do call they cannot take anything that doesn't belong to your son and I doubt if they would have the authority to enter another person's house.  You should ask Mabs is this allowed or citizens advice bureau should have more information on bailiffs/debt collection. Best of luck to your son.


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## lew247 (10 Oct 2008)

Thanks for the good wishes everyone

it slightly complicates things because he is at the moment staying with his gran (same surname) so they called her with threatening phone calls
but I've just writen a "nice" letter for her to send to them that should stop all further phone calls to her.


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## angrylad (11 Oct 2008)

Hi Lew247

Like others I am very sorry to hear about your sons medical condition and hope that all works out well for him.

I do not mean to sound harsh in any way so please do not take this post the incorrect way.

Your son took a contract out with O2 nearly a year ago, we have to assume that he was spending beyond his means and was aware of this fact as he would have received monthly bills and continued to spend in the same fashion. 

In your post you make out that O2 have done something wrong here which to me does not seen to be the case, your son made the calls etc, to me it is akin to running up a credit card bill and then blaming the bank for giving him credit.

Instead of blaming O2 you should get your son to contact them put you down as an authorised contact on the account and then you should call them and request the information that you require.

Once you have the information it will become clear exactly how your son accumulated such high bills. O2 already attempted to set up a payment plan with your son that he reneged on, do you expect them just to write off his bills as a bad debt.

The mobile operators are known for there good customer service here in Ireland and as long as you work with them they should be willing to work with you. The bottom line being that if your son clocked up the bill he should pay it back. Your solution of paying off £1.00 a week does not seem fair to me and will only make it harder in the future for people to receive bill pay phones/ loans etc.

To sum up your son is 22 years old, he is four years an adult and will need to be accountable for his actions. Fair is fair he owes the money he needs to pay it back. It may turnaround to be a valuable learning experience for him.


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## lew247 (11 Oct 2008)

Your correct in almost all that

As I stated (I think I did anyway) I never tried denying he run up the bills
I also said that I thought he was an idiot for doing so, and for even having a contract phone in the first place and not watching what he was spending, or how long he was using the phone for each day/month

I am not disputing the fact he has to pay it back

What I was trying to point out was that o2 HAS to take SOME of the blame for it
Because
o2 as a respectable company would obviously have a responsibility to its shareholders as well as its subscribers to make sure that bills would be paid which would mean keeping more of an "eye" on new contracts than may be neccesary for established ones.


to put it simply (and I dont have all the facts yet, waiting for copies of his contract, actual bills, amounts paid and so on before I can comment properly) 
but as far as I know at the moment

He got a new phone on contract, first one ever
his first bill was over €600 to which he paid some of it I believe, the next couple were around the same if not higher

WHY was there not tabs being kept on the amount the phone was being used when it was a new contract?


I know for a fact that over here o2 would have put a bar on the phone once it went near £100 and waited for me to contact them to see why the bar was on, and they might remove it, they might ask for a security deposit once they realise there will be high usage on a new contract, or they may wait until the first bill was paid and monitor it less strictly.

I know IF I was running a phone company I'd definately watch the first couple of months of ANY new contract, otherwise whats to stop anyone buying a phone on contract, using it to call Indai, Pakistan, England, Germany, Nigeria or just call their girlfriend/boyfriend for 24 hours a day?

I was NOT being racist in that comment, I was naming SOME of the likely possibilities.

If when I get the contract, his bills and the amounts he has paid so far I may decide that he was a total prat and its his own tough luck and he has to pay the whole lot at whatever he can afford a week
BUT
if it turns out, the bill should never have been allowed to get that high without it being queried, or the MINIMUM of the phone being barred until the outstanding bill was paid then yes I will take it to o2 direct and apeal to them.


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## angrylad (12 Oct 2008)

Hi Lew247

Again a fail to see how O2 should take any responsibility - from the facts that you have given your son was spending on average €600.00 per month, he has 
had the phone for say 10 months this amounts to €6000.00 he now owes them €1883.81, this amounts to three months of bills and to my calculation means that your son has paid them over €4000.00 to date.

As you mention O2 have a responsibility to there shareholders, why do you think that they would contact someone and tell them to stop spending so much with them.

From browsing the O2 website it seems that they operate a system called 'spend alerts' I have posted the link below:  
I am not sure if they were available when you son signed up to the contract but it sounds to me that your son did very little to investigate what offers he could have to reduce his call costs in the first place.

In each country we have people who will want to stay connected to family and friends spread out all over the world, these people should be allowed to spend 24 hours a day on to there loved ones with out extra scrutiny from companies as long as they are willing to pay for it.

I understand your frustration as I myself had a valuable and expensive lesson learned a few years ago. Peoples naivety when entering into contracts is not the fault of the companies.

I am not trying to defend O2, although I am a customer and have always found them very helpful, from the information given I think that your son will have to cough the money up.

I would be interested in hearing what the follow up on the story is.

angrylad


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## rmelly (12 Oct 2008)

angrylad said:


> spending on average €600.00 per month, he has
> had the phone for say 10 months this amounts to €6000.00 he now owes them €1883.81, this amounts to three months of bills and to my calculation means that your son has paid them over €4000.00 to date.


 
OP says the son spent €600 for *several* months, not all months of the contract, so he may have paid a few hundred euros(?) but nowhere near €4000 as he didn't run up a total of €6000.


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## sse (13 Oct 2008)

OP - are you talking to a solicitor at all? From what I can see O2 have acted entirely correctly - your son ran up a huge bill (presumably via premium rate/international services of some description), O2 have tried to collect, the promises to pay haven't been honoured and O2 have now factored the debt to a collection agency. I'd expect that your son was cut off somewhere around 60-90 days after the first overdue bill.

I'd say your only hope, as others have said, is to provide medical evidence and it may be (partially) written off as goodwill. Don't hold your breath though.

As far as I know there is no Irish equivalent of the UK IVA for creditors, it's not as simple as offering £1 a week in any case.

SSE


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## lew247 (13 Oct 2008)

Actually from what i know most of the calls were to girls, local calls, well calls to mobiles in Ireland anyway
totally stupid thing to do, not going to defend him there on that.
And they actually didnt cut him off untill about 2 months ago (9 months after the contract was first got)
In August the phone broke and he sent it back to them and they repaired it, knowing how much behind he was on the bill and he wasnt paying the payments in full, now thats what I'd call a bit dumb.
If it had been down to me I'd have kept the phone and said you can have it back when youve paid what you owe.

I should be getting a copy of the bills in a week or so, and the payments he has made so far, so then I can get my head round it and work out exactly what has been going on.
I cant say anything for definate until I have those, as All I have it what he has told me, and if any of you have kids (even though he is 22 now and not really a kid anymore) they only tell you what suits them.

Thanks for all the advice everyone anyway, hopefully once ive examined all the paperwork, it wont be as bad as it originally sounded (hopefully!)


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## shesells (14 Oct 2008)

I think you are overestimating the level of human interaction involved in the billing process. Until "the computer says no" then chances are that as one of tens of thousands or more, there was very little to flag your son's case, even with the repair.

The more information you give us the more surprised I am at how little blame you give to your son. He's not 12, he's 22. While he has my sympathies over his illness, he is still an adult.


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## television (14 Oct 2008)

The lad is an adult. He acted carelessly and recklessly. he deserves everything he gets. Maybe its time you as his mum stopped making excuses for him. Maybe in fact thats one of the reason he got hismself in this mess in the first place i.e, a subconsious belief that his Mum will bail him out. 

But I am also Very sorry to hear about his illness. It must be so stressful for you. I hope he makea a full recovery.


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