# Fraud Alert! Caller pretending to be from Visa Card asking to verify NZ transaction



## STEINER (19 Dec 2013)

FRAUD ALERT: Hi all. Ive had a call this am from someone called Susanne saying that she is from Visa/Mastercard services. She asked if i had authorised a payment of €700 to New Zealand recently....when I said no she said that she could stop this payment but then asked me to confirm my card details. I refused to give the card details but she was very insistant. Saying that if I didnt give her the details and hung up the payment would be released. I asked her for a no to ring her back and she gave me the following no: 1800 412266....... while she was still on house phone I rang this no on the mobile.....this no is not in use!!! The no she used to call me on came up as 001001735. She could quote my address also and said she was calling from Dublin. PLEASE TELL ALL YOUR FRIENDS AND BE CAREFUL!!!

_By the way, that is copy and paste job from a friend's social media message to me.  It's truthful etc, its just not my writing style!_


----------



## Slim (20 Dec 2013)

*Thanks for posting*

Steiner

Thanks for posting that. It may prove very useful at this very busy shopping time. Slim


----------



## Mrmr (20 Dec 2013)

Where a query has existed for me before, I have been asked for some digits from the verified by visa password.


----------



## Cabedazo (20 Dec 2013)

Once, I received a call from PTSB Security Dept. on a Sat. morn. There had been an attempt to clear out my current a/c which, in fairness, they had nipped in the bud.

I politely declined to even confirm my name.  Instead, I told the caller that I would ring the published no. for either reporting lost/stolen cards or the Open 24 no.( I can't remember which) and ask for him by name. 

This solution suited both our purposes, and I had no problem discussing my a/c with him thereafter.  

I would advise anyone who is "cold-called" in a similar way to do as outlined above


----------



## Brendan Burgess (20 Dec 2013)

Good thinking Cabedazo

In fact, the bank should probably tell people to do that automatically.  It would be good practice that you never give any information at all to a caller. 

Brendan


----------



## RainyDay (20 Dec 2013)

Mrmr said:


> Where a query has existed for me before, I have been asked for some digits from the verified by visa password.


If you were asked for this information by phone, there was something very strange happening. Don't give any password to anyone by phone.



Cabedazo said:


> Once, I received a call from PTSB Security Dept. on a Sat. morn. There had been an attempt to clear out my current a/c which, in fairness, they had nipped in the bud.
> 
> I politely declined to even confirm my name.  Instead, I told the caller that I would ring the published no. for either reporting lost/stolen cards or the Open 24 no.( I can't remember which) and ask for him by name.
> 
> ...



I had a similar experience with NIB/Danske, who seemed overly sensitive to a bit of online shopping - three small-ish transactions, all less than €50 with UK/US companies in one night. They weren't showing a caller ID, so I refused to give any information. I didn't have to call back the same person. They said to call back, and any agent would deal with the query, which they did.


----------



## Buddyboy (20 Dec 2013)

One amendment to the scam, which I have heard of, is that they ask you to call them back, and give you the number.  When you hang up and redial, the line is still open (since they initiated the call and never hung up). So when you ask for the person, you are "put through" to them.

So the suggestion to call back on the published number is a good one.


----------



## Brendan Burgess (20 Dec 2013)

Buddyboy said:


> One amendment to the scam, which I have heard of, is that they ask you to call them back, and give you the number.  When you hang up and redial, the line is still open (since they initiated the call and never hung up). So when you ask for the person, you are "put through" to them.
> 
> .



It's no wonder people get caught out. 

Brendan


----------



## Mrmr (20 Dec 2013)

It was a perfectly valid transaction that they had failed due to the value.
When we were discussing they asked for 3 digits from the VBV which is much much longer! I would encourage anyone not signed up to VBV to do so.


----------



## Slim (20 Dec 2013)

Buddyboy said:


> One amendment to the scam, which I have heard of, is that they ask you to call them back, and give you the number. When you hang up and redial, the line is still open (since they initiated the call and never hung up). So when you ask for the person, you are "put through" to them.
> 
> So the suggestion to call back on the published number is a good one.


 
How is that possible? If I hang up, the line goes dead, I then get a new dial tone and ring a number. How can a line be 'open'? Not doubting your bona fides, just intensely curious!


----------



## Brendan Burgess (20 Dec 2013)

Mrmr said:


> It was a perfectly valid transaction that they had failed due to the value.
> When we were discussing they asked for 3 digits from the VBV which is much much longer! I would encourage anyone not signed up to VBV to do so.



OK, so you make a large payment.
AIB rings you to confirm it's ok
You confirm it's ok by giving them your Verified by Visa number.

That is fair enough. The people ringing know that you have made this transaction and are asking you to verify it.

The original post is about a transaction which the card holder has not made. 

Brendan


----------



## ajapale (20 Dec 2013)

Slim said:


> How can a line be 'open'? Not doubting your bona fides, just intensely curious!


Yes Id be very interested to know how this works. Is it a landline thing?


----------



## Brendan Burgess (20 Dec 2013)

This certainly used to be the case, but I am not sure if it still works.

That huge big betting coup from the 70s or 80s was based on a group of people calling the oncourse bookmakers on their landlines , and then not hanging up. When a wall of money started being placed on the horse at the last moment, the off course bookies were unable to call the course to reduce the starting price as all the lines were in use.


----------



## pudds (20 Dec 2013)

> Originally Posted by *Buddyboy* http://www.askaboutmoney.com/showthread.php?p=1366272#post1366272
> they ask you to call them back, and give you the  number. When you hang up and redial, the line is still open (since they  initiated the call and never hung up). So when you ask for the person,  you are "put through" to them.



If you hang up and then quickly dial the number (thinking you had a new line) then caller would still be there.

Is this what happened.


----------



## dub_nerd (20 Dec 2013)

I think the inability for the callee to terminate the call by hanging up was a feature of the old analogue exchanges. I doubt it applies on a modern digital one.


----------



## AgathaC (21 Dec 2013)

Just want to reiterate the advice to never disclose details in this type of situation, and always independently check the published number of whatever bank/institution is ringing you, and ring that number, not one given to you by the caller. Yes, a call could be genuine, I have heard of cases where someone was alerted by their bank re fraudulent transactions, on a credit card, for example. But, always check the number, e.g. in the case of a credit card, it is usually on the card, and ring that number.


----------



## RainyDay (21 Dec 2013)

Mrmr said:


> It was a perfectly valid transaction that they had failed due to the value.
> When we were discussing they asked for 3 digits from the VBV which is much much longer! I would encourage anyone not signed up to VBV to do so.





Brendan Burgess said:


> OK, so you make a large payment.
> AIB rings you to confirm it's ok
> You confirm it's ok by giving them your Verified by Visa number.
> 
> That is fair enough. The people ringing know that you have made this transaction and are asking you to verify it.


I'm not so sure about this asking for the VBV password by phone at all. 

There is a general principal that passwords shouldn't be given to anyone. When you enter a password on a website, it should generally be not visible to any human, short of hackers or poor systems administration. I really don't think the system is designed to be used by phone.


----------



## Buddyboy (21 Dec 2013)

Just did a quick google, to see if the line open issue is still relevant (I'd hate to give incorrect information on the internet  )

It appears so, and is only relevant to landlines.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-22513041
(read the paragraph called "Changes" )

or 

https://groups.google.com/forum/#!topic/uk.telecom/2Qat_qlguSY



I also talked to my mate who used to work in telephone exchanges.

He explained that it is a feature of landlines as it is needed when the call receiver needed to change extensions. For example, if you rang a company and they needed to transfer you to another extension, the line wouldn't disconnect when the transfer is being made. In effect they are putting down one phone and picking up another. 

There is a timeout, when the line will eventually disconnect, but it is long enough for the scammee to put down the phone and dial another number without disconnecting the line.


----------



## Slim (21 Dec 2013)

Buddyboy said:


> Just did a quick google, to see if the line open issue is still relevant (I'd hate to give incorrect information on the internet  )
> 
> It appears so, and is only relevant to landlines.
> 
> ...


Thanks. Interesting. It is going to be difficult to tell genuine security calls from scammers. I suppose genuine security callers will not ask for pin or codes?


----------



## johnwilliams (27 Dec 2013)

There is a timeout, when the line will eventually disconnect  (how long are we talking about? )


----------



## roker (27 Dec 2013)

I got a call from Visa security on a bank holiday week end when the open 24 was closed, they left a number to call back, How suspicious is that? I waited until after the week end and went into the branch only to find that it was a genuine call.
 how am I to know?


----------



## RainyDay (28 Dec 2013)

roker said:


> how am I to know?



Call them back on the published number, not the number they leave to call them back on. When I had a similar situation with Danske, and I expressed my reservations, they said "No problem, just call us back on the number listed on the card".


----------



## Brendan Burgess (5 Jan 2014)

Buddyboy said:


> One amendment to the scam, which I have heard of, is that they ask you to call them back, and give you the number.  When you hang up and redial, the line is still open (since they initiated the call and never hung up). So when you ask for the person, you are "put through" to them.
> 
> So the suggestion to call back on the published number is a good one.



There was a program on scams on Channel 4 last week, and the _courier scam_ is based around this. 

1)The scammer calls you pretending to be from your credit card company asking to verify some purchases which you have not made. 
2) They tell you for security reasons to ring the number on the back of the card.
3) You  hang up and call the number on the card.
4) They don't hang up , so you end up talking to the scammers
5) They ask you for your pin which people often them
6) They then say that as your card has been compromised they will issue you with a new card. 
7) In the meantime , they will send a courier around to pick up your old card. 


The scammer then goes shopping on your card and withdraws cash as he  knows your pin. 

Brendan


----------



## Time (5 Jan 2014)

> 3) You hang up and call the number on the card.
> 4) They don't hang up , so you end up talking to the scammers


There will be no dial tone.

So only really stupid people will fall for this.


----------



## Brendan Burgess (5 Jan 2014)

Time said:


> There will be no dial tone.
> 
> So only really stupid people will fall for this.



Hi Time

I don't agree at all that only really stupid people will fall for this.

The person who calls is convincing. 
You panic when you hear that your card has been compromised.
You diall the number and might not notice that there is no dial tone. 
Or, they might even play the sound of hanging up and a mock dial tone. 

It would be very easy to get caught. 

Brendan


----------



## roker (5 Jan 2014)

RainyDay said:


> Call them back on the published number, not the number they leave to call them back on. When I had a similar situation with Danske, and I expressed my reservations, they said "No problem, just call us back on the number listed on the card".


 
As I said it was a bank holiday week end and all I got was recorded messages, no replies


----------



## Slim (6 Jan 2014)

Time said:


> There will be no dial tone..


 
True, but consider how people use a _mobile_ phone.
1) Unlock the keypad
2) Key in the number
3) Press green telephone symbol key

At no point, using a mobile, do you need to listen to a dial tone. However, you will not get a ringing tone either so I would cerainly be amazed if _any_ bank answered after 0 rings!

Off topic, I had a call on my landline yesterday from SSI (Something Survey International), with an American lady saying, after I asked her, that she was ringing from the US. Out of curiosity, I agreed to take part in the survey but she immediately asked if there were any 16-24 year olds in  the household she could speak to. I ended the call but am curious if it was simply sales or a genuine survey?


----------



## RainyDay (6 Jan 2014)

roker said:


> As I said it was a bank holiday week end and all I got was recorded messages, no replies



Don't all banks have a 24x7 service for reporting stolen cards?


----------



## newirishman (6 Jan 2014)

Slim said:


> True, but consider how people use a _mobile_ phone.
> 1) Unlock the keypad
> 2) Key in the number
> 3) Press green telephone symbol key
> ...



This shouldn't be a problem anyway. If you hang up on a mobile phone, the connection gets killed. The other side won't be able to "keep the line open".

Very irritating that this is still a problem with landlines in UK (and apparently Ireland). I have not heard about this before so this seems to be a very specific issue with how the telco's here implemented the call management protocols.
Disturbing to say the least that this is still not fixed - not sure if this is a hangover of analog exchanges or really just "sloppy" implementation of the SS7 stack.


----------



## Leo (6 Jan 2014)

newirishman said:


> This shouldn't be a problem anyway. If you hang up on a mobile phone, the connection gets killed. The other side won't be able to "keep the line open".



Spot on.

Another thing everyone should be aware of is the bank never, ever ask for your PIN, and their literature generally states ans much and warns against giving it to anyone. They also never ask for you to send your card back, they will tell you to destroy it.


----------



## Brendan Burgess (20 Mar 2014)

Got a call this morning on my mobile from AIB Visa asking me about some transactions on my card.  Straight up she asked me to confirm some details to identify myself. 

Remembering this thread, I told her that I would not deal with her and she asked me to ring the number on the back of my card.  Which I did from my landline. 

I think that they are wrong to ask for any details over the phone. They should simply tell the person that there is a query and ask them to ring back the number on the back of the card. 

The call was genuine, but if I get a scam call at some other stage, my guard could well be down as a result of getting the genuine call earlier.


----------



## Latrade (20 Mar 2014)

Brendan Burgess said:


> Got a call this morning on my mobile from AIB Visa asking me about some transactions on my card. Straight up she asked me to confirm some details to identify myself.
> 
> Remembering this thread, I told her that I would not deal with her and she asked me to ring the number on the back of my card. Which I did from my landline.
> 
> ...


 
I've had similar experiences via phone and email. When BOI relaunched 365online, you got an email directing you to log in to the new site, something they insist they never do, yet this was a genuine email.

It's hardly surprising people fall for the scams when it seems to be actual banking practice.


----------



## jnh (16 Jun 2014)

re the dial tone, in an article I read on this it seems the scammers play a dial tone on the open line, so it seems that it is quite easy to get fooled by this


----------



## franmac (18 Jun 2014)

I got a call to my mobile on June 2nd bank holiday Monday with a message for me to ring UB fraud dept on +448453512298, I rang their 24 hour Irish line to be told the line had a fault and to go on line for assistance so I checked with a guy who told me it was a genuine number and gave me a second number if I wasnt happy to use that one.  Mobile ringing again same number I didnt answer. What I would have given to speak to a person instead of pressing buttons.

I rang the UK number and eventually got sorted my debit card had been used abroad, was cancelled, money refunded to my account and new card received, great end of hassle.

Yesterday missed call on mobile same UK number telling me to call them which I did and was asked for my card number which I refused to give and told them I would contact my bank today. 

Rang this morning and the young man told me there had been a problem on 2nd June but since then things looked normal so he would contact the UK fraud dept and I was put on hold. He came back after about 7 minutes to apologise and said he was on hold to the UK. I asked could he ring me back he said he could'nt so 25 mins later he told me it was not the UB fraud Dept who rang me but I pointed out it was the same number as the previous alert and was told dont give any details on the phone and if they ring again to ring UB 24 hr line which was not available on 2nd June.

Very frustrating and worrying as to what is going on.


----------

