# How do you pay for your car?



## David1234 (7 Jan 2019)

Hi,

I am looking for a 2nd hand family car with a decent cash budget of €12,000-€15,000. My last car was purchased second hand 8 years ago and it is on its last legs. I will be doing the same again with this one.

From the 2 dealerships I have been in they were both very surprised that I was a cash buyer and wondering why I wasn't getting a new car on some sort of finance deal. I know that it is obviously in their interest to entice me into getting a new car but how often are people going in with the intension of buying a second hand car and coming out with a brand new car under some finance arrangement? I live in a new estate and the number of new cars that were bought by my neighbours last year was incredible. I would estimate that there is a 172 model or newer in every second driveway. I have also seen quite a large number of 191 cars on the roads already. Is this a new trend in Ireland? Is there stats anywhere that show the % of cars purchased in cash v those that are financed?

How do you pay for your car?


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## Slim (7 Jan 2019)

Many people are opting for PCPs at various low rates of interest or car manufacturer finance. I have two friends in particular, one avails of PCP and just rolls over the finance every three years. The other is considering 0% finance with Opel. I will pay cash to change as the cash is earning nothing in the bank or CU and I am fortunate to have it.

See key post at the top of this forum. https://www.askaboutmoney.com/threa...finance-a-new-car-pcp-hp-or-term-loan.202240/


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## newirishman (7 Jan 2019)

Bought a 2nd Hand car (Skoda Octavia, from dealership) last year in May, was around 15K.
Cash buyer as well, but got offered a finance deal:
- Paid 5K (thereabouts) in cash
- 10K interest-free(!) credit (from Volkswagen finance) over 2 years

The credit is one of those where the car is only is yours once it is fully paid at the end of the 2 years, but your can pay off early without any drawbacks.
Didn't really want to have a credit for the car (I hate regular monthly outgoings) but zero% is hard to beat.

Reg. your neighbours: many friends and acquaintances use some PCP deal, hence you see many new cars. There's a few discussions on aam on the pros/cons of it thought.


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## David1234 (7 Jan 2019)

newirishman said:


> Bought a 2nd Hand car (Skoda Octavia, from dealership) last year in May, was around 15K.
> Cash buyer as well, but got offered a finance deal:
> - Paid 5K (thereabouts) in cash
> - 10K interest-free(!) credit (from Volkswagen finance) over 2 years
> ...



That is a great deal all right, I am yet to see anything similar while looking.


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## RedOnion (7 Jan 2019)

David1234 said:


> From the 2 dealerships I have been in they were both very surprised that I was a cash buyer and wondering why I wasn't getting a new car on some sort of finance deal.


I buy with cash, but I never tell salesperson that. It's none of their business whether you've cash lying around, or took a loan from credit union.  It's in their interest, generally, to upsell.

I used to work in car finance, and there is no such thing as interest free credit.


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## David1234 (7 Jan 2019)

Slim said:


> Many people are opting for PCPs at various low rates of interest or car manufacturer finance. I have two friends in particular, one avails of PCP and just rolls over the finance every three years. The other is considering 0% finance with Opel. I will pay cash to change as the cash is earning nothing in the bank or CU and I am fortunate to have it.
> 
> See key post at the top of this forum. https://www.askaboutmoney.com/threa...finance-a-new-car-pcp-hp-or-term-loan.202240/



Thanks, I have seen a few posts about the pros/cons of PCP financing. It seems to be a bit of a minefield with all the various rates and options across each of the dealers.

I suppose what I am looking to tap into is why people are now inclined to buy a new car v a second hand one.

Is it availability of finance?
Keeping up with the Jones's?
Positive economic outlooks in the papers?
Higher disposable income?
A combination of the above?

What is the driving force behind choosing a new car when the rate of depreciation is so high in the first year


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## David1234 (7 Jan 2019)

RedOnion said:


> I buy with cash, but I never tell salesperson that. It's none of their business whether you've cash lying around, or took a loan from credit union.  It's in their interest, generally, to upsell.
> 
> *I used to work in car finance, and there is no such thing as interest free credit*.



This is something that has become very apparent in the last week or so for me. The amount you are paying for a new car on finance v's what you will pay in cash seem to vary considerably... well certainly from the 2 conversations I have had with dealers


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## RedOnion (7 Jan 2019)

David1234 said:


> Is it availability of finance?
> Keeping up with the Jones's?


It's these 2 mainly.
When someone is buying a car on finance, they generally don't look at the total price: they look at the monthly payment. Ask your neighbours with the new cars, and I'm sure half them are convinced it was cheaper to buy new than 2nd hand.
What they miss is that they are paying half the cost over 3 years under essentially a rental agreement, rather than buying the 2nd hand car outright over the same period.


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## newirishman (7 Jan 2019)

RedOnion said:


> I used to work in car finance, and there is no such thing as interest free credit.



Well maybe in the same way as there is no "free lunch". 

The interest rate is 0%. finance = 10k, payment term = 24 monthly payments of 416.66 / 416.67.
No fee for credit setup or additional final payment.
That is pretty much interest free credit for met.


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## Blackrock1 (7 Jan 2019)

David1234 said:


> What is the driving force behind choosing a new car when the rate of depreciation is so high in the first year



someone has to buy a new car, how else will you buy your second hand one?


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## RedOnion (7 Jan 2019)

newirishman said:


> That is pretty much interest free credit for met.


Except you could probably buy the 10k car for 9.5k if you have your own finance.


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## Slim (7 Jan 2019)

David1234 said:


> I suppose what I am looking to tap into is why people are now inclined to buy a new car v a second hand one.
> 
> Is it availability of finance?
> Keeping up with the Jones's?
> ...



None of the above influence me. I need a reliable car and I have experienced problems when out of warranty on the previous 2 cars and just made it inside the warranty on the current model. I am changing for 7 year warranty, 2 years free servicing and a year's road tax. The depreciation on leaving the forecourt is legendary but only relevant if you have to sell for cash. Try to buy a year old car at a dealer and you will not get the legendary depreciation, just one year off the new price. Import secondhand from the UK for best value but the problem of selling your current car remains.


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## RichInSpirit (7 Jan 2019)

I saw it on Facebook. No Nct. About a half weeks wages.
Took a gamble on it.


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## noproblem (7 Jan 2019)

RedOnion said:


> Except you could probably buy the 10k car for 9.5k if you have your own finance.


 To be honest i've been down that road and believe it or not the cash made absolutely no difference in my case. By the way the car was new and I had a trade in. Never let the salesman know if I was going with cash or not, got his absolute bottom line and had been in a few other dealerships as well so knew what would be good or bad. Told me what the 0% finance would work out at when I asked him, then asked what it was for cash and as I said, it made no difference at all. Spoke with quite a few others about this type of buying from car dealers and very much the same from everyone I talked to. You'll find they won't be chasing you for a deal either. It's take it or leave it as far as I can see nowdays in the motor industry.


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## theo67 (7 Jan 2019)

noproblem said:


> To be honest i've been down that road and believe it or not the cash made absolutely no difference in my case. By the way the car was new and I had a trade in. Never let the salesman know if I was going with cash or not, got his absolute bottom line and had been in a few other dealerships as well so knew what would be good or bad. Told me what the 0% finance would work out at when I asked him, then asked what it was for cash and as I said, it made no difference at all. Spoke with quite a few others about this type of buying from car dealers and very much the same from everyone I talked to. You'll find they won't be chasing you for a deal either. It's take it or leave it as far as I can see nowdays in the motor industry.



Yes,I went to 3 different Skoda garages in 2016.I talked cash only at 2,but got no discount on price for cash up front.I went with 0% finance,no issues with it yet,final payment later this year.


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## David1234 (7 Jan 2019)

theo67 said:


> Yes,I went to 3 different Skoda garages in 2016.I talked cash only at 2,but got no discount on price for cash up front.I went with 0% finance,no issues with it yet,final payment later this year.



What are the requirements for someone to be approved for finance on a new car. I’m not talking specifically about your 0% but more the people who opt for higher rates of PCP. Are there set guidelines similar to mortgage lending?


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## David1234 (7 Jan 2019)

Blackrock1 said:


> someone has to buy a new car, how else will you buy your second hand one?



It could come from the UK. It could of been purchased in cash by someone else. I’m happy for someone else to take the hit for the first few years, I’m just curious about what influences them to opt for such an expensive way to finance their car


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## RedOnion (7 Jan 2019)

David1234 said:


> Are there set guidelines similar to mortgage lending?


No. PCP is a form of HP finance, which is not regulated by CBI. 
The car can be repossessed easily if you fall behind on repayments (basically anywhere except your private property).


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## galway_blow_in (7 Jan 2019)

RedOnion said:


> I buy with cash, but I never tell salesperson that. It's none of their business whether you've cash lying around, or took a loan from credit union.  It's in their interest, generally, to upsell.
> 
> I used to work in car finance, and there is no such thing as interest free credit.



Former sales guy I know told me there is no such thing as "scrappage scheme  " either,if you pay 25 k cash for a new car, you pay no more than the guy with the 1999 micra trading in?


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## galway_blow_in (7 Jan 2019)

RedOnion said:


> It's these 2 mainly.
> When someone is buying a car on finance, they generally don't look at the total price: they look at the monthly payment. Ask your neighbours with the new cars, and I'm sure half them are convinced it was cheaper to buy new than 2nd hand.
> What they miss is that they are paying half the cost over 3 years under essentially a rental agreement, rather than buying the 2nd hand car outright over the same period.



That they don't own it outright from the start is a minor detail in my opinion, you don't own a house either outright until mortgage is paid in full


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## galway_blow_in (7 Jan 2019)

David1234 said:


> Thanks, I have seen a few posts about the pros/cons of PCP financing. It seems to be a bit of a minefield with all the various rates and options across each of the dealers.
> 
> I suppose what I am looking to tap into is why people are now inclined to buy a new car v a second hand one.
> 
> ...



If no one bought new, there would be no cars, buying second hand means perhaps buying something that was not looked after, beit an awful driver or someone who didn't prioritise servicing, I've yet to buy a car new but it's a perfectly reasonable choice


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## RedOnion (7 Jan 2019)

noproblem said:


> You'll find they won't be chasing you for a deal either.


That bit I'm definitely familiar with, and was quite surprised by.



galway_blow_in said:


> Former sales guy I know told me there is no such thing as "scrappage scheme  " either,if you pay 25 k cash for a new car, you pay no more than the guy with the 1999 micra trading in?


Pretty much. There's normally a condition that the car has a valid NCT. They ship them off to auction in the hope of getting 500 for them. No garage actually wants a 10 year old trade in, they're just hassle.



galway_blow_in said:


> That they don't own it outright from the start is a minor detail in my opinion, you don't own a house either outright until mortgage is paid in full


Not the point - they're comparing 2 different things. "It's cheaper to buy new" is the message PCP is trying to sell. But you own absolutely nothing at the end of 3 years.


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## galway_blow_in (7 Jan 2019)

RedOnion said:


> That bit I'm definitely familiar with, and was quite surprised by.
> 
> 
> Pretty much. There's normally a condition that the car has a valid NCT. They ship them off to auction in the hope of getting 500 for them. No garage actually wants a 10 year old trade in, they're just hassle.
> ...



What do you mean "you own nothing "?

If the car is paid off, it's yours


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## RedOnion (7 Jan 2019)

galway_blow_in said:


> What do you mean "you own nothing "?
> 
> If the car is paid off, it's yours


We're talking about PCP here (or at least I was). Do you understand how they work?


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## Gordon Gekko (7 Jan 2019)

galway_blow_in said:


> That they don't own it outright from the start is a minor detail in my opinion, you don't own a house either outright until mortgage is paid in full



Sorry, but that’s wildly inaccurate.

I own my house, albeit with bank debt secured against it. But the salient point is that I own the asset.

With PCP, I own nothing. Someone else owns the asset, i.e. the car. In essence, I’m kind of renting it with a quasi-option to buy it.


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## galway_blow_in (7 Jan 2019)

RedOnion said:


> We're talking about PCP here (or at least I was). Do you understand how they work?



You said "you own nothing after three years"


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## galway_blow_in (7 Jan 2019)

galway_blow_in said:


> You said "you own nothing after three years"



You pay the balance at the end, ten seconds before you pay the balance, you own nothing,, so what  ?


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## galway_blow_in (7 Jan 2019)

Gordon Gekko said:


> Sorry, but that’s wildly inaccurate.
> 
> I own my house, albeit with bank debt secured against it. But the salient point is that I own the asset.
> 
> With PCP, I own nothing. Someone else owns the asset, i.e. the car. In essence, I’m kind of renting it with a quasi-option to buy it.



And what of it ?


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## RedOnion (7 Jan 2019)

galway_blow_in said:


> You said "you own nothing after three years"


Correct. That's how PCP works.

If you want to own the car, you have to pay the GMFV. Which is being set very close to the expected future value to bring down the monthly repayment.


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## galway_blow_in (7 Jan 2019)

RedOnion said:


> Correct. That's how PCP works.
> 
> If you want to own the car, you have to pay the GMFV. Which is being set very close to the expected future value to bring down the monthly repayment.



Stage 1. = deposit

Stage2. = monthly payments lasting 36 months 

Stage 3. = pay balance

What big conspiracy am I missing ?


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## RedOnion (7 Jan 2019)

galway_blow_in said:


> Stage 1. = deposit
> 
> Stage2. = monthly payments lasting 36 months
> 
> ...


If you read back over the posts again, you will note I mentioned people generally only look at stage 2 - how much will this cost me monthly? I've even seen some car brands advertising the monthly cost with no mention of the actual price of the car.

A lot of people who enter PCP agreements don't actually understand how they work. PCPs, if understood, are great. But when someone tells me it was 'cheaper' to buy new than 2nd hand, I know they don't understand what it is they've signed up to.


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## galway_blow_in (7 Jan 2019)

RedOnion said:


> If you read back over the posts again, you will note I mentioned people generally only look at stage 2 - how much will this cost me monthly? I've even seen some car brands advertising the monthly cost with no mention of the actual price of the car.
> 
> A lot of people who enter PCP agreements don't actually understand how they work. PCPs, if understood, are great. But when someone tells me it was 'cheaper' to buy new than 2nd hand, I know they don't understand what it is they've signed up to.



I know it's not cheaper than buying second hand, buying second hand is however riskier if you put the purchase cost savings aside, unless you stick very high miles on the car or damage it, you have nothing to fear from pcp, very few can afford upfront to pay 30k for a new car but buying new is peace of mind for people who have little time to waste fixing cheap second hands


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## newirishman (7 Jan 2019)

galway_blow_in said:


> I know it's not cheaper than buying second hand, buying second hand is however riskier if you put the purchase cost savings aside, unless you stick very high miles on the car or damage it, you have nothing to fear from pcp, very few can afford upfront to pay 30k for a new car but buying new is peace of mind for people who have little time to waste fixing cheap second hands


There’s not much more risk buying a (say 2-4 year old) used car from a good dealership. 12 month warranty is pretty much normal, many used cars might still be covered original warranty.


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## David1234 (7 Jan 2019)

galway_blow_in said:


> I know it's not cheaper than buying second hand, buying second hand is however riskier if you put the purchase cost savings aside, unless you stick very high miles on the car or damage it, you have nothing to fear from pcp, very few can afford upfront to pay 30k for a new car but buying new is peace of mind for people who have little time to waste fixing cheap second hands



Why get a €30k car when you can’t afford a €30k car? Why not save up and get a reliable €10k car that you have had checked by a mechanic? What is forcing people to get unnecessarily expensive cars when the availability of suitable alternatives is huge?

Also on this,a couple around the corner got a new Tucson last year. They had it in the garage 5 times throughout the year with various issues. They eventually were given a new one to replace it this year because the issues kept reoccurring. The trick is to do your research and get a decent second hand car.


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## RedOnion (7 Jan 2019)

newirishman said:


> There’s not much more risk buying a (say 2-4 year old) used car from a good dealership.


Absolutely. As an example, my last car was 14 months old from main dealer. Balance of original warranty. Bought for 1/3 less than list price of new car.

But, if I had financed it, the monthly repayments would have been higher than the repayments on a new car with PCP.


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## galway_blow_in (7 Jan 2019)

newirishman said:


> There’s not much more risk buying a (say 2-4 year old) used car from a good dealership. 12 month warranty is pretty much normal, many used cars might still be covered original warranty.



Of course there is more risk, you are taking ownership of something which someone else was in charge of,you don't know how they minded it


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## David1234 (7 Jan 2019)

galway_blow_in said:


> Of course there is more risk, you are taking ownership of something which someone else was in charge of,you don't know how they minded it


 
Easily checked by a reliable mechanic


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## galway_blow_in (7 Jan 2019)

David1234 said:


> Why get a €30k car when you can’t afford a €30k car? Why not save up and get a reliable €10k car that you have had checked by a mechanic? What is forcing people to get unnecessarily expensive cars when the availability of suitable alternatives is huge?
> 
> Also on this,a couple around the corner got a new Tucson last year. They had it in the garage 5 times throughout the year with various issues. They eventually were given a new one to replace it this year because the issues kept reoccurring. The trick is to do your research and get a decent second hand car.



That's all best case scenario stuff, plenty of lemons out there for 10 k

Some people are time poor and don't - can't invest the time necessary to weed out the duff second hand cars on offer


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## galway_blow_in (7 Jan 2019)

David1234 said:


> Easily checked by a reliable mechanic



So you think it's easy to get a reliable mechanic to trape across the country several times to check out a used car ?, good mechanics have no interest in those gigs 

Before long, you'd have a grand spent,enough to pay the interest on your pcp loan


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## David1234 (7 Jan 2019)

galway_blow_in said:


> So you think it's easy to get a reliable mechanic to trape across the country several times to check out a used car ?, good mechanics have no interest in those gigs
> 
> Before long, you'd have a grand spent,enough to pay the interest on your pcp loan



I use a local mechanic and will line up 2-3 cars for him to have a look at in an afternoon that suits him. I don’t bother looking outside of Dublin. If you are paying €1,000 for this service you need your head checked


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## David1234 (7 Jan 2019)

galway_blow_in said:


> That's all best case scenario stuff, plenty of lemons out there for 10 k
> 
> Some people are time poor and don't - can't invest the time necessary to weed out the duff second hand cars on offer



So a lot of people get new cars because they don’t have the time to research second hand ones? But how do they know what new one they want? Surely that involves a lot of research too, especially if there are complicated financial products involved


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## galway_blow_in (7 Jan 2019)

David1234 said:


> I use a local mechanic and will line up 2-3 cars for him to have a look at in an afternoon that suits him. I don’t bother looking outside of Dublin. If you are paying €1,000 for this service you need your head checked




Well I don't live in Dublin and have never lived in Dublin, I've always had to travel several hours to get the car I wanted second hand, asked three mechanics two years ago to look at a car, none were interested, I bought it anyway


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## galway_blow_in (7 Jan 2019)

David1234 said:


> So a lot of people get new cars because they don’t have the time to research second hand ones? But how do they know what new one they want? Surely that involves a lot of research too, especially if there are complicated financial products involved



Ever heard of the Internet ? , amazing what you can research in a short time from your sofa


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## David1234 (7 Jan 2019)

galway_blow_in said:


> Well I don't live in Dublin and have never lived in Dublin, I've always had to travel several hours to get the car I wanted second hand, asked three mechanics two years ago to look at a car, none were interested, I bought it anyway



Well perhaps for your next car you could arrange to look at a number of cars in close proximity to each other and have a mechanic meet you there for an hour or two?


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## David1234 (7 Jan 2019)

galway_blow_in said:


> Ever heard of the Internet ? , amazing what you can research in a short time from your sofa


Same can be said for second hand cars and the dealerships they come from. The internet is a great tool finding second hand cars


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## galway_blow_in (7 Jan 2019)

David1234 said:


> Well perhaps for your next car you could arrange to look at a number of cars in close proximity to each other and have a mechanic meet you there for an hour or two?



There lies the key difference between new and second hand, you don't get to chose where the second hands you want are 

Kinda kids stuff frankly


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## galway_blow_in (7 Jan 2019)

David1234 said:


> Same can be said for second hand cars and the dealerships they come from. The internet is a great tool finding second hand cars


 

You then have to check if the used car is kosher, unlike the new one where you just decide if you want cream leather seats


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## David1234 (7 Jan 2019)

Yes a machanic will check if it’s “koshure”

In my case I have an abundance of car garages within 10 minutes drive so I can be rather picky when choosing where I choose to purchase. I’m very much in control of the hands where the viehicle is coming from. I will also have a minimum of a 12 month warranty from a reputable garage.

I hope people enjoy choosing their overpriced cream leather seats. I’d rather pay for my bog standard ones than borrow for something I can’t afford


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## galway_blow_in (7 Jan 2019)

David1234 said:


> Yes a machanic will check if it’s “koshure”
> 
> In my case I have an abundance of car garages within 10 minutes drive so I can be rather picky when choosing where I choose to purchase. I’m very much in control of the hands where the viehicle is coming from. I will also have a minimum of a 12 month warranty from a reputable garage.
> 
> I hope people enjoy choosing their overpriced cream leather seats. I’d rather pay for my bog standard ones than borrow for something I can’t afford



I'm happy for you but many people don't live in such locations with more used car options than you can shake a stick at, some people want more than a vehicle with four wheels so the specific car they want second hand might be a hundred miles away


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## Leo (8 Jan 2019)

David1234 said:


> I have also seen quite a large number of 191 cars on the roads already. Is this a new trend in Ireland? Is there stats anywhere that show the % of cars purchased in cash v those that are financed?



There was a lot of talk a couple of years back that the increasing popularity of PCPs would distort the second hand market. In reality, sales of new cars has fallen for the last two years, by 4.4% last year on a volume that was 10.4% down on 2016. While overall sales are down, the level of financing has crept up by small margins for the last few years, but there's nothing in the numbers to suggest and significant shift in patterns.


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## Easeler (8 Jan 2019)

Garage finance here I buy something around 2 years old every 5 years,  that car goes on to be the second car than ,200 a month with a small deposit. Cheap motoring in my opinion.


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## Blackrock1 (8 Jan 2019)

this seems to be a thread where the OP wants to scoff at anyone buying a new car and assumes that his method of buying a reliable car for 10k for cash is the most appropriate in all circumstances.

he also says PCP is an expensive way to buy a car, it isnt, in fact there are plenty of 0% finance deals. Buying a new car is expensive, no matter how you do it, but PCP can be relatively inexpensive way of doing it.

finally, to the point that you are only renting the car, who cars, really that would be my preference, rent a depreciating asset rather than own it.


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## Gordon Gekko (8 Jan 2019)

There are also people with reasonably predictable cashflows from things like share options; they may want a new car, and they may be able to afford it; perfectly fine.

There is no right or wrong answer.


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## 24601 (8 Jan 2019)

The margin on brand new cars is tiny so whatever way you wrap it up there's very little by way of discount to be had regardless of what way your financing it. Being a cash buyer means nothing any more and is in fact a pain for most garages as they'll tend to get some sort of kickback on finance deals, have to count the money and lodge it etc.

If you buy a new car you'll pay fairly close to the RRP. PCP is perfect for those who understand it (and great for self employed people that do a lot of business-related driving) but it's as much a marketing gimmick for manufacturers to get people to change their cars every 2/3 years rather than every 5/6, which, is usually unnecessary for most people. If you're happy rolling over forever and throwing in a top-up deposit every now and then I don't really see the ownership issue as a major problem. It really depends on what you value.


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## Blackrock1 (8 Jan 2019)

24601 said:


> The margin on brand new cars is tiny so whatever way you wrap it up there's very little by way of discount to be had regardless of what way your financing it. Being a cash buyer means nothing any more and is in fact a pain for most garages as they'll tend to get some sort of kickback on finance deals, have to count the money and lodge it etc.
> 
> If you buy a new car you'll pay fairly close to the RRP. PCP is perfect for those who understand it (and great for self employed people that do a lot of business-related driving) but it's as much a marketing gimmick for manufacturers to get people to change their cars every 2/3 years rather than every 5/6, which, is usually unnecessary for most people. If you're happy rolling over forever and throwing in a top-up deposit every now and then I don't really see the ownership issue as a major problem. It really depends on what you value.



yes, the dealer margins on new premium cars here are a lot lower than most people realise


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## galway_blow_in (8 Jan 2019)

Pcp is a very cheap way of financing a new car and unless the purchaser decides to clock up huge miles or neglects the car, they have nothing to worry about.

A year old car is probably 20% - 30% cheaper ( depends on car brand ) but your talking close to 7% interest on a motor loan as pcp usually not available on second hands, that's before you put a cost on the unknown of a second hand vehicle, warranty is little comfort if a clown owned the car.plus with a new car, you can choose spec


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## galway_blow_in (8 Jan 2019)

Gordon Gekko said:


> There are also people with reasonably predictable cashflows from things like share options; they may want a new car, and they may be able to afford it; perfectly fine.
> 
> There is no right or wrong answer.


 
Yesterday pcp was the devil


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## galway_blow_in (8 Jan 2019)

24601 said:


> The margin on brand new cars is tiny so whatever way you wrap it up there's very little by way of discount to be had regardless of what way your financing it. Being a cash buyer means nothing any more and is in fact a pain for most garages as they'll tend to get some sort of kickback on finance deals, have to count the money and lodge it etc.
> 
> If you buy a new car you'll pay fairly close to the RRP. PCP is perfect for those who understand it (and great for self employed people that do a lot of business-related driving) but it's as much a marketing gimmick for manufacturers to get people to change their cars every 2/3 years rather than every 5/6, which, is usually unnecessary for most people. If you're happy rolling over forever and throwing in a top-up deposit every now and then I don't really see the ownership issue as a major problem. It really depends on what you value.



Don't play ball with the auto makers, buy new through pcp and keep for ten years


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## 24601 (8 Jan 2019)

Yes, well in this scenario it makes perfect sense yo use PCP too. You finance 70% of the car at 0% or close enough to zero and can build up savings at the same time to pay the GMFV which is easier given the lower repayments under PCP. At worst you'll end up financing the final third with a bank/CU loan at 5 - 10%. 

This is all well and fine if you can afford the deposit up front but the biggest problem with them is that there is a limited/no affordability assessment so you have people buying 30k cars when they might only be able to afford 15k. They can manage the payments but at the end of the 3 years they're vulnerable the risk of a lack of equity or their repayments shooting up due to an insufficient deposit being available for a new car which can be compounded by an inability to finance the GMFV with funds from a traditional lender that has to comply with prudent lending requirements etc.


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## Gordon Gekko (8 Jan 2019)

galway_blow_in said:


> Yesterday pcp was the devil



It is the devil for people who fundamentally cannot afford what they’re being induced to buy.


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## galway_blow_in (8 Jan 2019)

Gordon Gekko said:


> It is the devil for people who fundamentally cannot afford what they’re being induced to buy.



No talk of unaffordability yesterday, narative was that pcp was fundamentally a bad idea


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## Gordon Gekko (8 Jan 2019)

galway_blow_in said:


> No talk of unaffordability yesterday, narative was that pcp was fundamentally a bad idea



Show me where I said that please.


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## Firefly (8 Jan 2019)

David1234 said:


> Hi,
> 
> I am looking for a 2nd hand family car with a decent cash budget of €12,000-€15,000. My last car was purchased second hand 8 years ago and it is on its last legs. I will be doing the same again with this one.
> 
> How do you pay for your car?



I buy my cars with cash, usually about 4-5 years old. I've previously had BMWs but once they hit 8 years I find they break my heart. So, I've gone with an Avensis this time. It's obviously nowhere as fun to drive but I've had it a year now and haven't put a penny into it. Best of all, it flew through the NCT, which was a first for me.


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## galway_blow_in (8 Jan 2019)

Gordon Gekko said:


> Show me where I said that please.



Page 2 of this thread, you claimed "you own nothing "by buying through pcp

Like I said , ability to afford nowhere in the argument against


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## Gordon Gekko (8 Jan 2019)

galway_blow_in said:


> Page 2 of this thread, you claimed "you own nothing "by buying through pcp
> 
> Like I said , ability to afford nowhere in the argument against



And exactly how is that me saying that “PCP is fundamentally a bad idea”?

It’s merely a statement of fact.


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## Firefly (8 Jan 2019)

Guys, there are countless pros and cons for PCP. Shall we leave it there?


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## galway_blow_in (8 Jan 2019)

Gordon Gekko said:


> And exactly how is that me saying that “PCP is fundamentally a bad idea”?
> 
> It’s merely a statement of fact.



It's pedantic rubbish


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## Leo (8 Jan 2019)

Gordon Gekko said:


> And exactly how is that me saying that “PCP is fundamentally a bad idea”





galway_blow_in said:


> It's pedantic rubbish



Closing this off, I'm not seeing anything in Gordon's contributions that equates to PCPs are bad. His statement that you own nothing is factually correct, and that is quite clearly spelled out in the small print of such agreements. At the end of the 3 year period have the option of handing the car back, or buying it for the final value. During those 3 years, the car remains fully the property of the financing company.

Another significant difference between can and home finance is the ease at which a car can be repossessed if you fall behind the payment schedule. 

The subsequent line about PCPs being the devil for those who can't afford what they are being induced to buy applies equally to all forms of credit and is not limited to car financing or PCPs.


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## David1234 (8 Jan 2019)

Blackrock1 said:


> this seems to be a thread where the OP wants to scoff at anyone buying a new car and assumes that his method of buying a reliable car for 10k for cash is the most appropriate in all circumstances.
> 
> he also says PCP is an expensive way to buy a car, it isnt, in fact there are plenty of 0% finance deals. Buying a new car is expensive, no matter how you do it, but PCP can be relatively inexpensive way of doing it.
> 
> finally, to the point that you are only renting the car, who cars, really that would be my preference, rent a depreciating asset rather than own it.



This is untrue. My question is how do you finance your car? I have absolutely no issue with people buying new cars as long as they can afford them.

My issue with PCP is that it makes new cars available to people who should not be buying new cars. I know very little about PCP and was genuinely interested in why some people were willing to make such a commitment if they cannot afford it. There does absolutely seem to be some great PCP deals out there on the face of it, but how someone on a modest salary can stroll into a garage and drive off in a €40k car on finance that appears to have loose regulation is mad to me.


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## David1234 (8 Jan 2019)

Leo said:


> There was a lot of talk a couple of years back that the increasing popularity of PCPs would distort the second hand market. In reality, sales of new cars has fallen for the last two years, by 4.4% last year on a volume that was 10.4% down on 2016. While overall sales are down, the level of financing has crept up by small margins for the last few years, but there's nothing in the numbers to suggest and significant shift in patterns.


Thanks for that Leo. Do you mind me asking where you can access the car sales info?


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## Blackrock1 (8 Jan 2019)

David1234 said:


> This is untrue. My question is how do you finance your car? I have absolutely no issue with people buying new cars as long as they can afford them.
> 
> My issue with PCP is that it makes new cars available to people who should not be buying new cars. I know very little about PCP and was genuinely interested in why some people were willing to make such a commitment if they cannot afford it. There does absolutely seem to be some great PCP deals out there on the face of it, but how someone on a modest salary can stroll into a garage and drive off in a €40k car on finance that appears to have loose regulation is mad to me.



how are you defining what they can afford?


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## David1234 (8 Jan 2019)

Blackrock1 said:


> how are you defining what they can afford?



Someone who has to finance a luxury item that is a depreciating asset.


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## PGF2016 (8 Jan 2019)

David1234 said:


> I know very little about PCP and was genuinely interested in why some people were willing to make such a commitment if they cannot afford it.


How do you determine they cannot afford it?

Edit - Already asked by Blackrock1.


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## thos (8 Jan 2019)

David1234 said:


> This is untrue. My question is how do you finance your car? I have absolutely no issue with people buying new cars as long as they can afford them.



I think there is a distinction between 'buying a new car' and 'having a new car', and the reality is that PCP allows a lot of people to 'have' a new car, without really having to fully understand what it is they are paying for. Again, a focus on monthly cashflow instead of a total cost.

For me the ultimate test of affordability is being able to afford the depreciation, and PCP get's pretty close to the model of merely paying the depreciation while preserving some of value of the asset (GMFV).


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## PGF2016 (8 Jan 2019)

David1234 said:


> Someone who has to finance a luxury item that is a depreciating asset.


Of course the person who is buying it will not consider it a luxury but a necessity. 

I agree with your point that there are far too many people buying new cars with debt.


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## Blackrock1 (8 Jan 2019)

David1234 said:


> Someone who has to finance a luxury item that is a depreciating asset.



so you advocate taking full ownership of this depreciating luxury asset instead of effectively renting it for a period?


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## David1234 (8 Jan 2019)

PGF2016 said:


> Of course the person who is buying it will not consider it a luxury but a necessity.
> 
> I agree with your point that there are far too many people buying new cars with debt.



How people consider a new car to be a necessity is a bit crazy to me.

Affordability doesn't appear to be an issue to the lenders so I have set my own parameters which I am sure others will disagree with.

Perhaps my view is coming across as self righteous and this really wasn't my intension. I have also found myself in the middle of a PCP dispute...an area I have very little knowledge of. 

My initial query about how you, as in other posters, finance their cars has been derailed. Partly by me and partly by others.


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## David1234 (8 Jan 2019)

Blackrock1 said:


> so you advocate taking full ownership of this depreciating luxury asset instead of effectively renting it for a period?



No I am not advocating that but I can see how one could come to that conclusion.

I would prefer to see people cutting their cloth to measure. I have absolutely no issue with PCP financing. I have no issue with people who can afford to purchase new cars doing so. I would just like to see people exercising a bit more financial prudence in their decisions when purchasing a car.

For people who are living paycheque to paycheque, why pay €100 a month for a new car when you can get a 3 year old one for €50 a month?


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## Leo (8 Jan 2019)

David1234 said:


> Thanks for that Leo. Do you mind me asking where you can access the car sales info?



The CSO publish detailed monthly data that includes breakdowns on new and second hand registrations.


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## David1234 (8 Jan 2019)

galwaypat said:


> Garage finance here I buy something around 2 years old every 5 years,  that car goes on to be the second car than ,200 a month with a small deposit. Cheap motoring in my opinion.



This is interesting. What type of 2 year old car would you expect to get for €200 p/m over 5 years? Does that include any sort of servicing or warranty?

Cheers


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## PGF2016 (8 Jan 2019)

David1234 said:


> My initial query about how you, as in other posters, finance their cars has been derailed. Partly by me and partly by others.


Paid 10k cash for a 3 year old car in 2011. Has been very reliable since. No issues that would have justified spending 30k on a new car at the time. 

Would never use any finance that required monthly payments (although I understand that 0% finance might be better financially).

Have considered changing recently. Would have expected to have to spend 20k for a similar 3 year old now. Was considering a new electric for 25k (scrappage & grants) but don't drive enough to justify it.


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## galway_blow_in (8 Jan 2019)

David1234 said:


> Someone who has to finance a luxury item that is a depreciating asset.



Even I had 50 k in cash to buy a new suv, I'd choose the sub 3% pcp option, having cash is a very important security blanket


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## David1234 (8 Jan 2019)

galway_blow_in said:


> Even I had 50 k in cash to buy a new suv, I'd choose the sub 3% pcp option, having cash is a very important security blanket



I agree that a cash security blanket is a good idea but Would you opt for a €50k car in this instance? Would it not be a better idea to get one for say €20k and save a few 1,000 a year in depreciation?


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## galway_blow_in (8 Jan 2019)

David1234 said:


> How people consider a new car to be a necessity is a bit crazy to me.
> 
> Affordability doesn't appear to be an issue to the lenders so I have set my own parameters which I am sure others will disagree with.
> 
> ...



It comes across as puritanical, almost every car ever bought depreciated in value, no reason not to buy new and if everyone saw buying new as rank indulgence, cars would soon be like the dodo


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## galway_blow_in (8 Jan 2019)

David1234 said:


> Would you opt for a €50k car in this instance? Would it not be a better idea to get one for say €20k and save a few 1,000 a year in depreciation?



That's a different argument and seperate from the whole pcp debate

I've never bought a new car but wish I had this time last year as the specific car is no longer available at that price due to radical VRT and road tax changes in respect of this particular type of jeep


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## Palerider (8 Jan 2019)

I've done the new cars for years always with cash, I'm semi retired a few years now and in January 2013 bought a low mileage 2010 Mercedes e250cdi for 24k cash, it's worth around €12k now, my thinking is not exactly how you finance it, buy well, maintain well and judge your costs through depreciation, in my case around €2500 a year, it has 113k Kms, looks and performs great ( unlike myself ) and has loads of life left.

Bangernomics...


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## Easeler (8 Jan 2019)

David1234 said:


> This is interesting. What type of 2 year old car would you expect to get for €200 p/m over 5 years? Does that include any sort of servicing or warranty?
> 
> Cheers


It would be mid range diesel with high mileage and a few small marks on it that comes in to a large dealership, i am not fussy about colour or a few small marks because they will plenty more by time herself is finished with it.


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## David1234 (8 Jan 2019)

galway_blow_in said:


> It comes across as puritanical, almost every car ever bought depreciated in value, no reason not to buy new and if everyone saw buying new as rank indulgence, cars would soon be like the dodo



I’m more asking why buy a €50k car instead of a €20k one when you only have €50k cash that you don’t wish to part with?


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## David1234 (8 Jan 2019)

Palerider said:


> I've done the new cars for years always with cash, I'm semi retired a few years now and in January 2013 bought a low mileage 2010 Mercedes e250cdi for 24k cash, it's worth around €12k now, my thinking is not exactly how you finance it, buy well, maintain well and judge your costs through depreciation, in my case around €2500 a year, it has 113k Kms, looks and performs great ( unlike myself ) and has loads of life left.
> 
> Bangernomics...





galwaypat said:


> It would be mid range diesel with high mileage and a few small marks on it that comes in to a large dealership, i am not fussy about colour or a few small marks because they will plenty more by time herself is finished with it.



It would seem that both you you have spent the guts of €12k on your cars over the last 5 years and I would imagine they are similar enough spec. 

I will probably never buy a new car and pay in cash where I can but the financing options some have given provide a good argument for it.


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## newtothis (8 Jan 2019)

Palerider said:


> I've done the new cars for years always with cash, I'm semi retired a few years now and in January 2013 bought a low mileage 2010 Mercedes e250cdi for 24k cash, it's worth around €12k now, my thinking is not exactly how you finance it, buy well, maintain well and judge your costs through depreciation, in my case around €2500 a year, it has 113k Kms, looks and performs great ( unlike myself ) and has loads of life left.
> 
> Bangernomics...



I'd call that just buying secondhand rather than Bangernomics! I'm not sure what the cut-off figure is or should be, but surely paying over €10k can hardly be considered Bangernomics? As it happens, I had a 300E Mercedes some years ago and operated on that basis. I think it cost me around €3k. It was about 15 years old at the time and had over 200k on the clock. The most expensive thing about it was the car tax: depreciation was about €500 over the period I owned it (about 18 months). There have been whole books written about Bangernomics: I don't know a huge amount about it, but I think one of the principles is that if the car just dies on you and has to be sold for scrap, the amount you lose is within the range of "normal depreciation" for a more regular car


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## Palerider (8 Jan 2019)

Of course you are right, I was being tongue in cheek, bangernomics to me are disposal cars that live with you as long as possible and then die, dispose of them for scrap value, buy a banger, it breaks down...too expensive to repair, repeat....


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## galway_blow_in (8 Jan 2019)

David1234 said:


> I’m more asking why buy a €50k car instead of a €20k one when you only have €50k cash that you don’t wish to part with?



You don't part with 50k upfront


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## David1234 (8 Jan 2019)

galway_blow_in said:


> You don't part with 50k upfront


Would the car not cost you the guts of €1,000 a month in depreciation in the 1st year? With the cheaper car it would be considerably less


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## galway_blow_in (8 Jan 2019)

David1234 said:


> Would the car not cost you the guts of €1,000 a month in depreciation in the 1st year? With the cheaper car it would be considerably less



That implies there is always a second hand option, many want a specific make with a particular spec, you could be waiting a long time


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## NoRegretsCoyote (8 Jan 2019)

If you can afford it and you like a new car then buy a new car.

But don't forget that new cars in Ireland *are among the most expensive in the world* due to VRT and VAT at 23% on top.


The cost of owning a car is really how much it depreciates by each year. Cars depreciate rapidly at first, then the rate slows off. *So the depreciation on a new car in Ireland is a lot. Because new cars cost a lot.*


For me the most cost-effective approach is probably a three-year old UK import which you then keep for five years. You miss out on the very high depreciation in Ireland on the first few years, and generally avoid the reliability issues in older cars. Importing a car from the UK is time and hassle though and understandably not everyone is interested.


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## DeeKie (9 Jan 2019)

Paid 13k for a 2010 Jetta that was a showroom model for a year. Needs replacing now.


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## Firefly (9 Jan 2019)

NoRegretsCoyote said:


> Importing a car from the UK is time and hassle though and understandably not everyone is interested.



I went up North...drove up in the old car & drove back down in the "new" car. The garage had all the paperwork ready and everything organised for my VRT. Very seamless transaction.


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## galway_blow_in (9 Jan 2019)

Firefly said:


> I went up North...drove up in the old car & drove back down in the "new" car. The garage had all the paperwork ready and everything organised for my VRT. Very seamless transaction.



The stinger re buying in Northern Ireland is the book value is higher down here and the VRT can be even higher than you first imagine, thinking of buying a two year old jeep grand cherokee towards the end of this year in the North and the VRT is nearly the price of the jeep itself due to book value in the south and emissions


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## Firefly (9 Jan 2019)

galway_blow_in said:


> The stinger re buying in Northern Ireland is the book value is higher down here and the VRT can be even higher than you first imagine, thinking of buying a two year old jeep grand cherokee towards the end of this year in the North and the VRT is nearly the price of the jeep itself due to book value in the south and emissions



My VRT was about 300 euro higher than I was quoted on the vrt.ie website alright. Still much cheaper than flying over & ferry back and accommodation though.

If I was spending 20k+ I would probably go to the UK alright as you could get exactly what you wanted. It wasn't worth it for what I was spending though


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## Buddyboy (9 Jan 2019)

Like Firefly, I bought my last car up the North. For what I was spending it wasn't worth going to GB, and there wasn't a comparable car in the south, or should I say, for the money I would have got a much lesser spec'ed model with far greater mileage.

I'll qualify this with the fact that I like small cars, I only drive 20~30kms most days, so I have a specific need, which doesn't include status, range, long distance comfort or family transport.
When I left the smoke out of my previous car ( '96 Fiat Punto - blew the head gasket), I scrapped it. I took the train to Belfast, bought a Hyundai i10, 2009, with 17k on the clock. This as around 4 years ago. Total cost, including VRT was €7k.

I spend 300 on insurance, 200 on tax, and around 1000 on petrol a year. Services are cheap, as are tyres (when I last got a set, the guy in the BMW next to me said it cost the same for one of his as the four of mine).. It is the essence of cheap, dependable motoring.  I have taken it to Dublin a few times, no problem, but mostly it is just one person (me) in it every day.  I've loaded it with 16 bags of bark mulch, and a full set of wardrobes from Ikea (not at the same time!).  And the guy who services it is always amazed at the pep in it (1.2 ltr engine in a small, light car).

I toy with the idea of buying electric, but as long as it keeps going, it is cheaper to keep it.

Some friends take the p*ss about having a dinky car,  but I point out I'm the one who can afford a few holidays a year (while they're servicing a loan for a 30K + car).

So I'm buying for my specific needs, spending the lowest money to get the most of what I want.


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## Blackrock1 (9 Jan 2019)

Buddyboy said:


> Like Firefly, I bought my last car up the North. For what I was spending it wasn't worth going to GB, and there wasn't a comparable car in the south, or should I say, for the money I would have got a much lesser spec'ed model with far greater mileage.
> 
> I'll qualify this with the fact that I like small cars, I only drive 20~30kms most days, so I have a specific need, which doesn't include status, range, long distance comfort or family transport.
> When I left the smoke out of my previous car ( '96 Fiat Punto - blew the head gasket), I scrapped it. I took the train to Belfast, bought a Hyundai i10, 2009, with 17k on the clock. This as around 4 years ago. Total cost, including VRT was €7k.
> ...



and you obviously arent into cars, some people are, so will spend more to effectively get the same result as you do.

like buying a casio or a rolex, both will tell the time.


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## galway_blow_in (9 Jan 2019)

Firefly said:


> My VRT was about 300 euro higher than I was quoted on the vrt.ie website alright. Still much cheaper than flying over & ferry back and accommodation though.
> 
> If I was spending 20k+ I would probably go to the UK alright as you could get exactly what you wanted. It wasn't worth it for what I was spending though



The jeep I'm interested in have gone from 60 k new to 80 in the past year due to VRT changes, add to that, road tax gone from 330 to 1200, effected Toyota landcruiser, Land rover discovery etc the same


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## Blackrock1 (9 Jan 2019)

galway_blow_in said:


> The jeep I'm interested in have gone from 60 k new to 80 in the past year due to VRT changes, add to that, road tax gone from 330 to 1200, effected Toyota landcruiser, Land rover discovery etc the same



its just not available as a commercial any more you mean


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## Firefly (9 Jan 2019)

galway_blow_in said:


> The jeep I'm interested in have gone from 60 k new to 80 in the past year due to VRT changes, add to that, road tax gone from 330 to 1200, effected Toyota landcruiser, Land rover discovery etc the same



Ouch!


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## Easeler (9 Jan 2019)

Not in to cars myself much prefer a nice house, any spare cash goes in to that, worked in dublin many years ago doing up corporation houses for Dublin city council and was  amazed at the squalor some people were living in and they would have a new car outside the door madness in my opinion.


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## galway_blow_in (9 Jan 2019)

Buddyboy said:


> Like Firefly, I bought my last car up the North. For what I was spending it wasn't worth going to GB, and there wasn't a comparable car in the south, or should I say, for the money I would have got a much lesser spec'ed model with far greater mileage.
> 
> I'll qualify this with the fact that I like small cars, I only drive 20~30kms most days, so I have a specific need, which doesn't include status, range, long distance comfort or family transport.
> When I left the smoke out of my previous car ( '96 Fiat Punto - blew the head gasket), I scrapped it. I took the train to Belfast, bought a Hyundai i10, 2009, with 17k on the clock. This as around 4 years ago. Total cost, including VRT was €7k.
> ...



I like the way you think but I know people who spend nothing on travel or eating out,, cars are their only luxury expenses, I drive a now thirteen year old Toyota landcruiser which I paid 27 k for in 2008, lot of money on day one but I love the high driving position and looked after it well, next jeep will cost me minimum 40 k if I buy a jeep again, my Toyota worth about 7 k today so il borrow 30k over five years at 6.74%


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## Buddyboy (9 Jan 2019)

Blackrock1 said:


> and you obviously arent into cars, some people are, so will spend more to effectively get the same result as you do.
> 
> like buying a casio or a rolex, both will tell the time.



Absolutely!, which is why I qualified my post.
If someone likes cars, want's to buy one for 100k, then good luck to them. I have no problem with what anyone spends on their car, that's up to them.  I can only try to explain my stance.


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## galway_blow_in (9 Jan 2019)

Blackrock1 said:


> and you obviously arent into cars, some people are, so will spend more to effectively get the same result as you do.
> 
> like buying a casio or a rolex, both will tell the time.



Some people just don't get the a car is more than a functional piece of machinery designed to get you from A to B

Terrific car for those people, dacia duster


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## galway_blow_in (9 Jan 2019)

galwaypat said:


> Not in to cars myself much prefer a nice house, any spare cash goes in to that, worked in dublin many years ago doing up corporation houses for Dublin city council and was  amazed at the squalor some people were living in and they would have a new car outside the door madness in my opinion.



Agree with you there


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## Blackrock1 (9 Jan 2019)

galwaypat said:


> Not in to cars myself much prefer a nice house,



dream big, have both


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## Buddyboy (9 Jan 2019)

For me, (like the thread on the new RTE money program), and no doubt for most of the posters here, it's all about opportunity cost. With a limited income, what is the most value I can get for my money? And by value I don't just mean monetary value, I mean enjoyment, satisfaction, whatever you want to call it.  For me it's not cars, so an extra € spent on a car above a threshold, will not give me as much reward as the same € spent on a meal out, a holiday, or sailing, (or as Blackrock1 suggests, a better watch).
Others are different, and will derive more satisfaction out of that € spend on their car rather than something else.

For me, the idea of financing a car with any sort of interest bearing loan, be it credit union, pcp or whatever, is anathema.  What I would see is a depreciating asset that is being financed by an interest bearing debt  So I am getting hit on the double.

But that's just me 

(Apologies if it's grandma egg-sucking time).


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## noproblem (9 Jan 2019)

Below is a piece from The Times today. As they used to say in Hill Street Blues, "Be careful out there".

One in six used cars on sale may be at risk of repossession as they still have finance outstanding on them.In a study of a sample of 5,906 used cars offered for sale and history-checked by vehicle history checking website Cartell.ie, 16.6 per cent still had outstanding debt, meaning the finance provider was the ultimate owner of the vehicle and not the seller. In December 2017 it stood at 14.3 per cent. In July 2016 the rate was just 9.5 per cent.A spokesperson for the Competition and Consumer Protection Commission (CCPC) said: “If a consumer purchases a car with outstanding finance on it, the car could be repossessed by the lender, even if the consumer has already paid the previous owner for it.


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## David1234 (9 Jan 2019)

galway_blow_in said:


> Some people just don't get the a car is more than a functional piece of machinery designed to get you from A to B
> 
> Terrific car for those people, *dacia duster*



This is what I'm probably going to end up buying.

Has anyone experienced buying directly online? I came across this car which seems to be great value but I just couldn't bring myself to but a car like this without seeing it in the flesh.

[broken link removed]

There would seem to be a much less of a risk buying a new car in this way.


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## galway_blow_in (9 Jan 2019)

David1234 said:


> This is what I'm probably going to end up buying.
> 
> Has anyone experienced buying directly online? I came across this car which seems to be great value but I just couldn't bring myself to but a car like this without seeing it in the flesh.
> 
> ...



Those dusters have a good reputation for reliability and are outstanding value

As for that mitsubishi, looks nice but not a big seller so be prepared to keep it long term


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## Buddyboy (9 Jan 2019)

galway_blow_in said:


> Some people just don't get the a car is more than a functional piece of machinery designed to get you from A to B
> 
> Terrific car for those people, dacia duster



Nah, too big 

What I would really like is an mx5, but I can't get a roof rack and a bicycle on it. And if I want to get my jollies on the road, I just take my 150 BHP motorbike out for a ride.


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## deranne (3 Feb 2019)

Fortunately we never did the pcp on our family car, last year our business started to fail and this year we have closed.  My monthly repayment on my now 4 yr almost 5 yr old car €189 pm so its doable even in financially tight circumstances.  When I buy a car it has to be dependable, 7 seater, low mileage.  My car last year bought just before the decline had only 23k miles on it, I do about 12k miles per year and I hope to get another 7/8 years on it and the loan will be finished in 3 years.  
Buying new cars is only fine when you know you can keep up the repayments even when in financial difficulty.  
It was the same when we got a mortgage for our house in 2002, banks were throwing out money and everyone around us was building big beautiful houses with finished stone and all the extras, we built a nice but modest home and our mortgage is manageable.  We took the long term view of 'what if something goes wrong with our business' and now that we are both facing SW until we get employment we can cover the basics with a very and I mean very frugal existence.  
 Hey ho that's how life goes, everybody gets their down years but silver lining and all that.


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