# Cost of grinds.



## thedaras (3 May 2012)

I have a son doing exams at the moment, The teacher is charging 40e for an hour and a half per six students.They go in a group of six once a week.
Luckily he is working part-time so can pay for this.
How much do you pay ,if you need to send your kids to grinds?


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## Newbie! (3 May 2012)

I suspect, as you alluded to in your post, that it depends on how many students are attending the grind? I have a friend who gives maths grinds for €30/hr to a group for 6 but is €50/hr one-one. 
Is your son happy with the grind?


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## truthseeker (3 May 2012)

Yeah one on one is more expensive.

It depends on the qualification of who is giving the grind as well. 
Its a nice cash job for someone if they have space to take 6 children at 40 quid per head for an hour and a half each week?

I know engineering ireland were doing free honours maths grinds in the past year or so in ballsbridge but the places would book out fairly quickly.


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## thedaras (3 May 2012)

On a one to one,I have paid 25/30 for an hour. 40e for an hour and half for a group of six seems very expensive,that would work out at 200e for an hour and half for the teacher.I think a rumour started that this teacher was great and he got caught up in it,but was disappointed.

The teacher does several of these grinds ,so it can feel a bit rushed when the next group arrive a few minutes earlier,and the doorbell is ringing..


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## Cantona7 (3 May 2012)

my daughter is sitting junior cert this summer and pays €30 for an hours session with her friend..
she's happy with it so far..they seem to cover more in the hour than she does at class,


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## Firefly (3 May 2012)

truthseeker said:


> Yeah one on one is more expensive.
> 
> It depends on the qualification of who is giving the grind as well.
> Its a nice cash job for someone if they have space to take 6 children at 40 quid per head for an hour and a half each week?
> ...


 
It's just like any other cash-based business really. The customer can always ask for a receipt and/or let the Revenue know of the transaction. 

As long as the teacher is not breaking any terms in his/her contract I don't really see a problem and I would expect a better (either real or perceived) teacher to charge what the market will bear. 

Assuming the teacher can get 6 groups through every Sat e.g 9-10.30, 10.30-12, 1-2.30 and 2.30-4 then this would gross him/her 1,440 for the day which is pretty decent. After tax it would be close to 750 which again is pretty good. To be able to charge this rate and get full occupancy for the classes I would assume that the teacher would have to put a fair amount of work into prepping for these classes. Again, once preparing for this does not breach his/her employment contract, then fair play to him/her.


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## thedaras (3 May 2012)

He also does them Mon to Fri ..evenings.
He lives at home with his parents so yes its a pretty decent amount.Though I would imagine its a short period of time where he is capable of earning this amount as the demand for grinds tends to peak around now..


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## Firefly (3 May 2012)

thedaras said:


> He also does them Mon to Fri ..evenings.
> He lives at home with his parents so yes its a pretty decent amount.Though I would imagine its a short period of time where he is capable of earning this amount as the demand for grinds tends to peak around now..


 
Assuming he's pretty young then, that's a good way to put away money for lots of travelling during the summer!


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## Bronte (3 May 2012)

I must be very naive but I thought the first post was 40Euro total for the hour and a half.  Ireland is a very rich country indeed.  240 Euro cash and no tax, nice work if you can get it.


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## Firefly (3 May 2012)

Bronte said:


> I must be very naive but I thought the first post was 40Euro total for the hour and a half. Ireland is a very rich country indeed. 240 Euro cash and *no tax*, nice work if you can get it.


 
I think it's safe to assume that there are teachers up and down the country who do not declare at least most of their grinds income to Revenue as I would expect the same to occur in other businesses where cash payments are made. However, in this case, if the teacher is becomming well-known and a lot of students are passing through his doors he would, IMO, be an easier target for Revenue and would therefore be well advised to declare his income. It's still a tidy sum and fair play to him if people are freely willing to pay for this.


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## truthseeker (3 May 2012)

Firefly said:


> I think it's safe to assume that there are teachers up and down the country who do not declare at least most of their grinds income to Revenue as I would expect the same to occur in other businesses where cash payments are made. However, in this case, if the teacher is becomming well-known and a lot of students are passing through his doors he would, IMO, be an easier target for Revenue and would therefore be well advised to declare his income. It's still a tidy sum and fair play to him if people are freely willing to pay for this.



Yes, although there can be costs involved for the grinds teacher, if he has to pay rent on a room, presumably if he does it in his own home there are insurance issues? Dont know.


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## Protocol (3 May 2012)

I'm shocked.

Six kids each pay 40 for 1.5 hrs, so the young teacher earns 240, or 160 per hour???

Typical rates are 30 per hour for one-on-one, in my experience, maybe more in Dublin.

OK, maybe 35.


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## Protocol (3 May 2012)

I have a lot of experience of maths grinds (directly and indirectly).

In a small county town, I know experienced teachers charging 30-35 for maths grinds up to LC HL.

I have given a few JC maths grinds for 30 ph, 50 for 2 hrs.

*It seems I'm under selling myself??*


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## Ceepee (4 May 2012)

thedaras said:


> 40e for an hour and half for a group of six seems very expensive,that would work out at 200e for an hour and half for the teacher.


 
I'm no maths expert, but I don't think that comes to €200 ...


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## JP1234 (4 May 2012)

Last year we paid €25 ph. If you requested one on one it was €40 but we were never charged that even when because of drop outs my son was the only one there for a while.

They took place in a rented space in town, If the next class turned up early or were running late there was a waiting area so there was never any rushing.

Money well spent for us and him!


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## Firefly (4 May 2012)

Maths seems to be the most popular subject to get grinds in....why is that? Is it that the standard required at the LC is too hard (relative to other subjects and if so why not extra points?), or is it the way it's taught or finally, do we Irish have a problem with sums?


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## Leper (5 May 2012)

My father (never a one to squander money) used to say "If Teachers were doing their jobs correctly, there would be no need for grinds." But, of course it was only a sentence uttered. We can blame teachers, the system, the Dept of Education, the religious school owners, the parents committee, etc etc. We might as well be spitting into the wind.

The Leaving Cert. is all about points; not about preparing our kids for their role in society or education or anything else. Let me reiterate points are all that matters unless you know somehow your loved one can enter the desired 3rd Level course without the amount of points needed.

Enter the Grinds Teacher - can be a great Points Getter with cramming courses, one-to-one tuition, exam tips, paragraph layout pointers etc. If the place in the Points Race is achieved by the student, nothing else matters. It is a short-term pay-for-points strategy. 

Now, who caused all this Points Mayhem? Answer:- Look in the mirror. We can talk about tax avoidence, insurance of classroom-in-the-garage 'til the cows come home. But, we have created the monster. Therefore, we must live with the situation unless of course we all learn collective cop-on, which won't happen.


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## truthseeker (5 May 2012)

Leper said:


> Now, who caused all this Points Mayhem? Answer:- Look in the mirror. We can talk about tax avoidence, insurance of classroom-in-the-garage 'til the cows come home. But, we have created the monster. Therefore, we must live with the situation unless of course we all learn collective cop-on, which won't happen.



Sorry Leper, perhaps because its early and my brain is still a bit sleepy, but how exactly have we created the points monster?

Is the points monster not simply a matter of university places, numbers trying to get into them and aptitude for such a course (Im thinking of the HPAT for medicine or the need for certain science subjects to do a maths/science/engineering course)?

On an aside, my parents refused to pay for grinds also. I did honours maths and only 2 of us in the class werent being sent to grinds. The 2 of us got the highest marks in it. Our teacher was dreadful, many of us and parents complained and in protest he refused to teach us for a month at one point, didnt matter, there were people in the class more capable and with a better understanding of the subject matter than him, we took to the board with a piece of chalk ourselves a few times. 

These days its like you HAVE to be doing the grinds, all it tells me is that teachers are not doing their job.


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## Purple (5 May 2012)

Many Teachers who do grinds don't declare that income for tax, just like plumbers, plasterers, solicitors and anyone else in a cash for services sector. That just means they are the same as everyone else. It doesn't make tax evasion right but they are by no means unique. 
As for Maths being too hard in Irish schools; the German, Dutch and American engineers I talk to all laugh about how Irish students/ graduates are so far behind relative to their students/ graduates.


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## thedaras (5 May 2012)

Leper said:


> > The Leaving Cert. is all about points; not about preparing our kids for their role in society or education or anything else. Let me reiterate points are all that matters unless you know somehow your loved one can enter the desired 3rd Level course without the amount of points needed.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


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## Leper (12 May 2012)

thedaras said:


> Leper said:
> 
> 
> > _Looking forward to hearing your suggestions for the alternative to points?_
> ...


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