# Garda website down - safety cameras



## NOAH (15 Nov 2010)

Tried garda website a few times and it is down!!  Looking for details on new safety cameras!!

noah


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## potnoodler (15 Nov 2010)

tried to log into it myself and assuming that thousands of others are trying too and their server can't handle the traffic, did get a chuckle of the recovered property on the home page, a mountain bike , can just imagine the Interpol rolling their eyes at this if they visit the site


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## Ciaraella (15 Nov 2010)

if you're in dublin there's one on the road outside cheeverstown, that's as much as i know so far!


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## TarfHead (15 Nov 2010)

There's a version of it here


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## shnaek (15 Nov 2010)

Lots of people are going to get fines and points for Christmas. Of course the private company running the cameras are in it for the good of society and not the money making potential of the thing


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## Slash (15 Nov 2010)

shnaek said:


> Of course the private company running the cameras are in it for the good of society and not the money making potential of the thing



The private company are on a fixed fee, regardless of the number of fines/penalty points. As someone else pointed out, the fines will be issued by the Garda, not by the private company.

Obviously, the private company will want to make a profit.

I wonder how long it will be before some bright spark down in the Four Goldmines comes up with a successful challenge to the legislation?


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## DB74 (15 Nov 2010)

I would prefer if they were on some form of commission basis


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## Firefly (15 Nov 2010)

Slash said:


> The private company are on a fixed fee, regardless of the number of fines/penalty points.



I'm sure the operator of these cameras would have a better chance of renewing their contract if their detection rates good


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## Complainer (15 Nov 2010)

DB74 said:


> I would prefer if they were on some form of commission basis


Why?


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## shnaek (15 Nov 2010)

Slash said:


> The private company are on a fixed fee, regardless of the number of fines/penalty points. As someone else pointed out, the fines will be issued by the Garda, not by the private company.


A fixed fee paid from expected revenue from the cameras.


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## DB74 (15 Nov 2010)

Complainer said:


> Why?


 
Incentive to catch speeding motorists

I am assuming that they will be employed at blackspots as opposed to catching people doing 51kmph on the Stillorgan bypass for example


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## shnaek (15 Nov 2010)

Speed cameras are nothing more than tax collectors. All the evidence shows this. But if our road deaths are significantly down (50 + as they claim) next year then I will eat humble pie!


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## PaddyW (16 Nov 2010)

I have an excel file containing the locations of the new speed cameras. If anyone is interested, pm me with your email address.

Paddy


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## tiger (16 Nov 2010)

Saw this article linked somewhere, which has a nice google maps of the camera locations
http://www.thejournal.ie/rush-to-check-speed-cameras-crashes-garda-website-2010-11/

Can't confirm if it's accurate or not!


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## pixiebean22 (16 Nov 2010)

The whole thing is a joke.  If the speed limits on the roads in this country actually made any sense then there would be no need for the vast majority of speed cameras.  

They're spending 65 million on this over 5 years, that's a lot of money for a country in a recession and i'm sure they'll be expected to make a lot of money to justify that.


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## shnaek (16 Nov 2010)

pixiebean22 said:


> and i'm sure they'll be expected to make a lot of money to justify that.


Precisely. An easy way to make money that most people won't complain about. 
Next thing we'll see is that you'll be able to avoid penalty points if you agree to go on some state run driving course. That has the advantage of not putting tax payers off the roads, and charging them again for the course, along with the fine.


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## RonanC (16 Nov 2010)

Pixiebean22, can you clarify what you mean by the following



pixiebean22 said:


> If the speed limits on the roads in this country actually made any sense then there would be no need for the vast majority of speed cameras.


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## pixiebean22 (16 Nov 2010)

For example a straight stretch of road which has never recorded a fatality and is not in a built up area with a speed limit of 60kmph, this makes no sense to me.  Also, there are various parts of the motorway around Waterford City which have a speed limit of 80kmph.  

My house is on a very busy main road and it could take you 5-15 minutes to actually pull out of the drive way and get out onto the road.  There are 10 houses along this road but motorists go speeding along and drive in the hard shoulder which is extremely dangerous and there have been plenty of accidents and near misses along that road.  There are no speed cameras or garda presence etc yet this would be described as a "black spot", the type of spot that the gardai say they target when clearly they don't?


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## gianni (16 Nov 2010)

pixiebean22 said:


> My house is on a very busy main road and it could take you 5-15 minutes to actually pull out of the drive way and get out onto the road.  There are 10 houses along this road but motorists go speeding along and drive in the hard shoulder which is extremely dangerous and there have been plenty of accidents and near misses along that road.  There are no speed cameras or garda presence etc yet this would be described as a "black spot", the type of spot that the gardai say they target when clearly they don't?



I would imagine that the Gardai's study of the empirical evidence of very serious crashes and road deaths would be a bit more in-depth than your anecdotal research of the stretch of road outside your house (and your 9 neighbours).


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## gianni (16 Nov 2010)

shnaek said:


> Speed cameras are nothing more than tax collectors. All the evidence shows this...




Any links ?


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## DB74 (16 Nov 2010)

gianni said:


> I would imagine that the Gardai's study of the empirical evidence of very serious crashes and road deaths would be a bit more in-depth than your anecdotal research of the stretch of road outside your house (and your 9 neighbours).


 
Any links?


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## gianni (16 Nov 2010)

DB74 said:


> Any links?



Any links to the internal workings of the Garda ? No. 
But here are some links with statements from senior Gardai that talk of the 5 years worth of data that they looked at.

No doubt you'll dismiss these statements as rubbish... each to their own...



[broken link removed]


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## shnaek (16 Nov 2010)

gianni said:


> Any links ?



Here ya go:

Queensland police:
http://motoring.ninemsn.com.au/cars...-says-hidden-speed-cameras-dont-reduce-deaths

NMA:
[broken link removed]

Study:
http://radartest.com/article.asp?articleid=100619

They are revenue generators. Fact. Unless you want to believe what the government are telling you. But I've given up on that a while back.


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## RonanC (16 Nov 2010)

shnaek, you should really change your name to schynik 

The Queensland Police article is based purely on covert speed detection vehicles, unmarked and served little purpose in my opinion.

We have gone down the road of using speed detection vehicles like this one , clearly visable from any angle. 

A full list of every location is available for anyone to see on the internet. These locations were chosen based on their history of accidents, crashes and deaths as a result of careless and dangerous driving, including drink/drug driving and speeding. 

If you speed you must be caught. If you continue to speed and you also ignore the prior warning and notices of where these vans may be located you are a stupid stupid person.


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## pixiebean22 (17 Nov 2010)

gianni said:


> I would imagine that the Gardai's study of the empirical evidence of very serious crashes and road deaths would be a bit more in-depth than your anecdotal research of the stretch of road outside your house (and your 9 neighbours).


 
Would it really?  And I thought that there whole road safety campaign should revolve around me (and my 9 neighbours).

It is a money making scheme.  Money which is not going to be put into the country.  65 million over 5 years, they could've created around 300 jobs out of this new "initiative" and actually helped the country.


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## Ceist Beag (17 Nov 2010)

Do all those claiming this is a money making scheme not think there are too many road deaths still in this country? And is it not a good idea to try and prevent speeding on the very stretches of road where deaths have occurred recently? Or do you think there isn't a problem with speeding and road deaths here?


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## truthseeker (17 Nov 2010)

Ciaraella said:


> if you're in dublin there's one on the road outside cheeverstown, that's as much as i know so far!


 
There is so frequently a garda with a handheld at that spot that its nothing new to have to slow down there.


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## pixiebean22 (17 Nov 2010)

As I pointed out in my previous post, in my opinion, in my local area, these cameras and road safety measures are not being implemented in areas where road fatalities are high, they are being put in areas where it'll be easy to pick off motorists.

Speed cameras are not the way to reduce speed related deaths/accidents. Speed cameras have been in use in this country for years yet incidences of speed related deaths/accidents have increased. Changes need to be made to licensing in this country, the driving test needs to be modernised and there needs to be some sort of cooperation between the RSA and the various instructors and testers, as there are discrepancies between the rules of the road and what instructors and testers tell you to do when you are behind the wheel of a car.

People aren't speeding when they drive through a red light, when they sit in a yellow box, when they change lane in front of you (or beside you) without looking or indicating, when they jam on the brakes in front of you because they've missed their turn/exit, when they pull away from the side of the road without indicating... i could go on


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## Ceist Beag (17 Nov 2010)

pixiebean22 said:


> As I pointed out in my previous post, in my opinion, in my local area, these cameras and road safety measures are not being implemented in areas where road fatalities are high, they are being put in areas where it'll be easy to pick off motorists.
> 
> Speed cameras are not the way to reduce speed related deaths/accidents.  Speed cameras have been in use in this country for years yet incidences of speed related deaths/accidents have increased.  Changes need to be made to licensing in this country, the driving test needs to be modernised and there needs to be some sort of cooperation between the RSA and the various instructors and testers, as there are discrepancies between the rules of the road and what instructors and testers tell you to do when you are behind the wheel of a car.



Sorry pixiebean but that's complete and utter rubbish. The number of active speed cameras in this country could be counted on the fingers on your hands and everyone knew this. They were never a deterrent before but they certainly should be now. As for changes to the driving test - this suggests you believe only new drivers speed on the road. What about all the drivers who have long since passed their test and continue to speed, how to you propose to get them to change their ways without the use of speed cameras? New drivers are not the problem, it's the general attitude to speeding that is the problem.


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## pixiebean22 (17 Nov 2010)

Ceist Beag said:


> Sorry pixiebean but that's complete and utter rubbish. The number of active speed cameras in this country could be counted on the fingers on your hands and everyone knew this. They were never a deterrent before but they certainly should be now. As for changes to the driving test - this suggests you believe only new drivers speed on the road. What about all the drivers who have long since passed their test and continue to speed, how to you propose to get them to change their ways without the use of speed cameras? New drivers are not the problem, it's the general attitude to speeding that is the problem.


 
Well clearly my post was misleading because I believe the exact opposite of what you have assumed.  I think that the driving test should be re-sat by everyone at least every 5-10 years with incentives for drivers who pass such as lower insurance costs.  It is a joke that drivers who passed their test 20-30 years ago are still on the roads not having undertaken any additional training in line with improvements to road networks and the huge increase in motorists compared to 20-30 years ago and also the fact that bad habits will obviously have a negative effect on their driving over such a long period of time.

I think new drivers being punished for the actions of existing drivers is absolutely ridiculous (I am referring here to the new rules being brought in for new drivers next year).


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## Ceist Beag (17 Nov 2010)

It certainly was misleading - I don't see where you said the test should be resat regularly! But that begs the question then, if you think speed cameras are a money making racket, do you not think an awful lot of people would see your suggestion as the very same (as drivers no doubt would have to pay to resit their test every 5-10 years)! And your suggestion would mean every single driver would have to pay, not just those found speeding.


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## pixiebean22 (17 Nov 2010)

Ceist Beag said:


> It certainly was misleading - I don't see where you said the test should be resat regularly! But that begs the question then, if you think speed cameras are a money making racket, do you not think an awful lot of people would see your suggestion as the very same (as drivers no doubt would have to pay to resit their test every 5-10 years)! And your suggestion would mean every single driver would have to pay, not just those found speeding.


 
That's because I didn't mention that in my first post?

I think if incentives were brought in for drivers who re-sit the test, insurance discounts or a refund of their fee for the test or something like that, it would make more sense than speed cameras being brought in with no incentives for road users (apart from a possibility that road fatalities will decrease).  

Yes, every single driver should have to pay.  There should be something implemented, whether it be re-sitting the test or something else, that would address all drivers.  Speeding is not the biggest danger on the roads in my opinion.


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## shnaek (17 Nov 2010)

Ceist Beag said:


> Do all those claiming this is a money making scheme not think there are too many road deaths still in this country? And is it not a good idea to try and prevent speeding on the very stretches of road where deaths have occurred recently? Or do you think there isn't a problem with speeding and road deaths here?



Speed traps are not going to stop it. Now, let me come back here in a year and I will hold my hands up if it does. I cannot see any benefit to them apart from making money. Are the speed traps going to catch the doughnut makers on the wide country roads at night? Are they going to catch the really wreckess? My money is on them catching the ordinary Joe Soap, and that is due to my experience of living here of the ordinary Joe Soap being bent over at every opportunity while those at the top get away with murder, and murderers get away with murder. 

Tackle muggers and rapists. Tackle violence on our streets. Tackle gang wars. No. Puttin up speed cameras is easy and makes it look like they are doing their job. Guess what - they're not. And they aren't happy about it either. I don't want to go too far off topic so I'll leave it there. Forgive me for not trusting in our beaurocrats, judiciary and government.


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## Niall M (17 Nov 2010)

shnaek said:


> Speed traps are not going to stop it. Now, let me come back here in a year and I will hold my hands up if it does. I cannot see any benefit to them apart from making money. Are the speed traps going to catch the doughnut makers on the wide country roads at night? Are they going to catch the really wreckess? *My money is on them catching the ordinary Joe Soap*, and that is due to my experience of living here of the ordinary Joe Soap being bent over at every opportunity while those at the top get away with murder, and murderers get away with murder.
> 
> Tackle muggers and rapists. Tackle violence on our streets. Tackle gang wars. No. Puttin up speed cameras is easy and makes it look like they are doing their job. Guess what - they're not. And they aren't happy about it either. I don't want to go too far off topic so I'll leave it there. Forgive me for not trusting in our beaurocrats, judiciary and government.


 
the ordinary joe soap who is speeding no?


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## callybags (17 Nov 2010)

Why does it have to be such a black and white issue?

Increasing speed traps ( and reducing speeding) can only have a positive effect on the statistics.

It won't prevent all road deaths, but even one is a bonus.

If it pays for itself through fine revenue, then I can see no logical argument against it.


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## RonanC (17 Nov 2010)

shnaek said:


> Are the speed traps going  catch the doughnut makers on the wide country roads at night?




But shnaek, there is something you could do about the idiots in their rwd cars doing doughnuts on country roads - Take a photo, take a video on your phone, take a note of their registration numbers, call the Gardai and inform them immediately. They will act on this I can assure you. If they dont, then send your pictures to the papers, to primetime, to joeeeeeeee duffy or post them on the internet. Maximum impact and something will be done.



shnaek said:


> Tackle muggers and rapists



How can you tackle something that you dont know will happen or where it will happen? The courts are the answer, proper sentencing and proper prison terms.




shnaek said:


> Tackle violence on our streets.



This involves taking our Gardai away from admin posts, hiring civilians to do these jobs instead and also hiring more front line Gardai to patrol our streets, which would lead to an increase in public spending but can they really be everywhere at all times. Do we need more cctv? Will this help? 




shnaek said:


> Tackle gang wars.



They are being tackled, the ERU are having reasonable success down in Limerick, but more should be done and I will highlight the courts and staffing issue again.



shnaek said:


> Forgive me for not trusting in our beaurocrats, judiciary and government.



Not many of us do at this stage but we have to have some belief that trying to save lives on our roads by any means is a positive thing.


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## shnaek (17 Nov 2010)

Niall M said:


> the ordinary joe soap who is speeding no?



If you have nothing to hide, then you have nothing to fear, eh? I know other countries who live by that philosophy. Is a Joe Soap running at 35 in a thirty zone that big of a priority? A decent citizen, going about his work? Maybe took his eye off the speedometer for a minute? Our priorities are wrong, my friend. I want an emphasis on criminals before I go after the citizen.


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## shnaek (17 Nov 2010)

RonanC said:


> But shnaek, there is something you could do about the idiots in their rwd cars doing doughnuts on country roads - Take a photo, take a video on your phone, take a note of their registration numbers, call the Gardai and inform them immediately. They will act on this I can assure you. If they dont, then send your pictures to the papers, to primetime, to joeeeeeeee duffy or post them on the internet. Maximum impact and something will be done.


I have done that. I have also called the gardai when I saw someone breaking into a car, against the wishes of my friends who thought I was asking for trouble. But I find this exercise with the speed cameras a cynical one, and I will be proven right, I guarantee you.



RonanC said:


> How can you tackle something that you dont know will happen or where it will happen? The courts are the answer, proper sentencing and proper prison terms.


 I agree. This isn't happening. Protect the honest citizen before making them fear the law.



RonanC said:


> This involves taking our Gardai away from admin posts, hiring civilians to do these jobs instead and also hiring more front line Gardai to patrol our streets, which would lead to an increase in public spending but can they really be everywhere at all times. Do we need more cctv? Will this help?


  We need more action. And proper sentencing. I agree more Gardai will be freed up, and I hope to see them on the streets.



RonanC said:


> They are being tackled, the ERU are having reasonable success down in Limerick, but more should be done and I will highlight the courts and staffing issue again.


Those guys are laughing at us. They don't give a damn about our system. Same as the gangsters in Trallee and Mullingar. 



RonanC said:


> Not many of us do at this stage but we have to have some belief that trying to save lives on our roads by any means is a positive thing.


Trying to save lives is a positive thing - but that is not what they are doing. We shall see. Come back here in a year. One of us can tell the other that they were right!


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## RonanC (17 Nov 2010)

shnaek said:


> We shall see. Come back here in a year. One of us can tell the other that they were right!



Deal


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## Yachtie (17 Nov 2010)

Ceist Beag said:


> Do all those claiming this is a money making scheme not think there are too many road deaths still in this country? And is it not a good idea to try and prevent speeding on the very stretches of road where deaths have occurred recently? Or do you think there isn't a problem with speeding and road deaths here?


 
I don't think there is anyone who doesn't know the consequences of excessive speeding, drunk driving, etc. BUT people stil die on our roads every day. To be honest, I don't care or feel sorry for anyone who knowingly puts themselves in danger and ends up a casuality but I do care about the innocent casualities on our roads. 

You can line up speed cameras all over the country and there will still be people who won't pay any notice. Those who think they are above the law are also the ones who are a real threat. These are the ones the gardai or the cameras should be after, not after Joe Soap driving 51kmph on Stillorgan dual carriageway as somebody pointed out.


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## DB74 (16 Feb 2011)

There has been a camera outside my mother's house on-and-off for roughly the last 2 weeks. The speed limit on the road was changed within the last 12 months from 80kmph to 50kmph. In 35 years of living there I don't recall one accident on this road.

Same old same old revenue generating exercise


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## shnaek (16 Feb 2011)

DB74 said:


> Same old same old revenue generating exercise



Of course. It would be naive to think it was ever anything else.


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## Yorrick (16 Feb 2011)

"These are the ones the gardai or the cameras should be after, not after Joe Soap driving 51kmph on Stillorgan dual carriageway as somebody pointed out. "

Has anyone ever identifed this mysterious driver who was prosecuted for driving at 51 or is the usual b/s people go on with ?


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## werner (18 Feb 2011)

Yorrick said:


> "These are the ones the gardai or the cameras should be after, not after Joe Soap driving 51kmph on Stillorgan dual carriageway as somebody pointed out. "
> 
> Has anyone ever identifed this mysterious driver who was prosecuted for driving at 51 or is the usual b/s people go on with ?


 
In previous employment I drove that way for many years.

I assume the GArdai had some sort of quota to fill as they used to set up cynical and useless for road safety speed entrapment at the UCD flyover

They would cynically monitor cars approaching the dip at the flyover so they could prosecute drivers whose cars exceeded the nonsense speed limit as the car would gain a few kph whilst rolling down the incline.

I seen many accidents along the nearby Kilmacud road, some perhaps even due to inappropriate speed, never a Garda to be seen!


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## Time (18 Feb 2011)

I have noticed people are busy flashing their headlights warning people of these revenue generators.


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## callybags (18 Feb 2011)

Maybe between the vans and poeple flashing headlights, cars will slow down and they won't generate any revenue.

That'll show them.


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## DB74 (18 Feb 2011)

Time said:


> I have noticed people are busy flashing their headlights warning people of these revenue generators.


 
Indeed

I remember a story (urban myth?) about a driver who stopped at a garda checkpoint and told the gardai that there must be something wrong with her car because everyone was flashing their lights at her and she didn't know what it was. The gardai on duty had to tell her that tehyw eer flashing their lights to warn her of the checkpoint.


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## DB74 (18 Feb 2011)

callybags said:


> Maybe between the vans and poeple flashing headlights, cars will slow down and they won't generate any revenue.
> 
> That'll show them.


 
What a travesty that would be.

People still speeding on the back roads and no money generated from those nice straight safe ones!

No winners here!


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