# Uk basic state pension - buying back years



## cautious (27 Nov 2013)

I have a very small UK basic state pension. I am told I can buy possibly 6 years additional pension for £4134 (£689 for each year). I recently heard of a company called Irish Pension Solutions who state they are a registered agent to HMRC (HM Revenue & Customs). They claim they can buy 6 years for me through their UK registered company at a cost to me of €500 per year (€3000 in total - a significant saving).

Too good to be true? 

I am a bit reluctant to hand over that much money to them. Anybody heard of them? Are they regulated by the financial regulator?

I think they have only been in business about 2 years.


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## rayn (27 Nov 2013)

Ring HMRC and discuss it with them. i always found them very efficient and helpful. Myself and my wife have bought extra years.


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## Marc (27 Nov 2013)

Have you completed your BR19?

[broken link removed]


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## cautious (28 Nov 2013)

I think so. At least I requested the info by phone. I got a State Pension Statement Summary. I will contact HMRC by phone or can anybody direct me to the part of their website where I can research the cost of buying the years. Thanks for the replies.


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## Bronte (28 Nov 2013)

cautious said:


> I recently heard of a company called Irish Pension Solutions who state they are a registered agent to HMRC .


 
That doesn't sound right, being an agent of HMRC, why would HMRC need an agent?

I imagine HMRC, pensions office, should confirm how many years you can buy and at what costs, cannot see how an agent is needed and how an agent can do it for less then the HMRC costs.


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## rayn (28 Nov 2013)

When my wife and i got our pension forecasts it included details re buying extra years. no of years / cost per stamp / cost per year etc.
The cost per year varied from £626 to £382 depending on year with some rates between these.
The number on the letter (2010) from HMRC is 00441912253699.


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## cautious (28 Nov 2013)

Bronte said:


> That doesn't sound right, being an agent of HMRC, why would HMRC need an agent?
> 
> - - - - cannot see how an agent is needed and how an agent can do it for less then the HMRC costs.



My thoughts exactly. 

If, as they say, it will cost me £689 for each year, how can they offer it to me for €500 (Euro not Sterling) per year.

Something doesn't add up. Will contact HMRC directly tomorrow when I have more time. I imagine the costs will be more in line with rayn's post. Thanks for replies.


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## oysterman (29 Nov 2013)

Is there any possibility that you will pay PRSI contributions in Ireland for long enough that you will be entitled to a full contributory pension here?

If you will then you would receive no benefit from your UK national insurance contributions.

I bought back a couple of years in the UK after returning to Ireland 20 years ago and I think it will turn out to have been money down the drain.


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## cautious (29 Nov 2013)

oysterman said:


> Is there any possibility that you will pay PRSI contributions in Ireland for long enough that you will be entitled to a full contributory pension here?
> 
> If you will then you would receive no benefit from your UK national insurance contributions.



Are you absolutely sure of that? It conflicts with the information that I have. Some of my retired colleagues are in receipt of pensions from Ireland (full public sector pension in Ireland) and also from the UK (partial pension).

BTW. HMRC told me today they do not use registered agents but any any third party agency can apply on my behalf. They said why bother paying somebody when all it is costing me is the price of a phone call and the time spent filling in a form.


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## gipimann (29 Nov 2013)

Here's the citizensinformation.ie site which explains bi-lateral social security arrangements.

It appears to confirm that it is possible to get more than one pension from each country depending on the contributions paid here in Ireland (see the end of the webpage)

http://www.citizensinformation.ie/e...cial_insurance_contributions_from_abroad.html


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## oysterman (2 Dec 2013)

cautious said:


> Are you absolutely sure of that? It conflicts with the information that I have. Some of my retired colleagues are in receipt of pensions from Ireland (full public sector pension in Ireland) and also from the UK (partial pension).


I really hope I'm wrong. I thought that the objective of the EU regulations or the non-EU bilateral agreements was to facilitate people getting up to a full contributory pension without sufficient contributions in any individual state but that (where the Irish authorities know you are in receipt of state contributory pension from elsewhere) the aggregated cash entitlements would not exceed a full state contributory pension.

In the case of the "full public sector pension" recipients to whom you refer above, could these have been lower rate PRSI contributors (i.e. pre-1995 public service recruits) whose pensions do not include an integrated contributory state pension? In such a case it would be difficult to argue they weren't entitled to their bit of UK (or wherever) pension.

I guess what we're looking for to disprove my understanding is somebody with a full Irish contributory state pension who is also in receipt of some contributory state pension from elsewhere...and, critically, that the Irish authorities are aware of same.


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## ronaldo (2 Dec 2013)

Also remember that the entire UK state system is being redesigned from 2016. What impact this will have on you and what impact buying additional years will have will depend on individual circumstances - but definitely check it out before committing any money to buying additional years.

If you are already retired, or retiring before the new system kicks in, I don't think the new rules impact you. If you retire after it's implementation, I believe they calculate what your entitlement would be under the new system and the old system as of 2016. Whichever system gives you the higher entitlement will determine your baseline entitlement in 2016 and, from then on, you can, if required, continue to build further entitlement under the new system up to the maximum allowable.

The above is a jist of my understanding of the changes - but they're alot more complicated in cases and I haven't researched it too much considering the rules will probably change multiple times before I reach state pension age myself.


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## cautious (3 Dec 2013)

oysterman said:


> In the case of the "full public sector pension" recipients to whom you refer above, could these have been lower rate PRSI contributors (i.e. pre-1995 public service recruits) whose pensions do not include an integrated contributory state pension? In such a case it would be difficult to argue they weren't entitled to their bit of UK (or wherever) pension.
> 
> I guess what we're looking for to disprove my understanding is somebody with a full Irish contributory state pension who is also in receipt of some contributory state pension from elsewhere...and, critically, that the Irish authorities are aware of same.



Thanks for replies. Those I referred to were pre 1995 public service recruits so probably didn't have full Class A contributions.

I joined public sector in 1995 so am on Class A contributions with a smaller public sector pension. I have enough Class A contributions from my years in the private sector combined with my years in the public sector to give me a full state pension.

I contacted the Dept. of Social Protection in Sligo this morning and the girl I spoke with was adamant that I could get a pension from the UK in addition to my Irish pension.

It would be good if somebody who is actually getting this (above board) would post to further confirm.

ronaldo,
I will retire next year so should avoid the reductions that are coming in 2016.


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## Gerry Canning (3 Dec 2013)

oysterman said:


> Is there any possibility that you will pay PRSI contributions in Ireland for long enough that you will be entitled to a full contributory pension here?
> 
> If you will then you would receive no benefit from your UK national insurance contributions.
> 
> I bought back a couple of years in the UK after returning to Ireland 20 years ago and I think it will turn out to have been money down the drain.


 ........................................................................................................
Oysterman; I have relatives in Receipt of  Contributory pension in Roi and  Contributory pension from UK.

I expect in a few short years to receive Full Contributory pension in Roi .
I also expect to get a Part Contributory pension fron working in Uk...

I think the important word here is CONTRIBUTARY ie I paid in.

If I am wrong . please let me know.


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## oysterman (3 Dec 2013)

Gerry Canning said:


> ........................................................................................................
> Oysterman; I have relatives in Receipt of Contributory pension in Roi and Contributory pension from UK.
> 
> I expect in a few short years to receive Full Contributory pension in Roi .
> ...


My fingers are crossed that I too may eventually benefit from my UK working years in addition to the full Irish contributory pension I am likely to be entitled to if all goes well.

However, as one who has moaned in the past about the regular changes and consequent uncertainty regarding pension entitlements in Ireland, it is strangely reassuring to see the same in the UK. I for one will not be relying on getting anything from the UK in planning out my retirement.


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