# Received bill - over 5 yrs late



## Luternau (15 Aug 2008)

My question is - is there a time limit on issuing invoices?
I have just received an invoice from my solicitor relating to the conveyance of an investment property over 5yrs ago (the amount refers to stamp duty paid on my behalf). I knew the amount of duty paid and assumed it had been taken from the funds released to the solicitor by my bank. I have not got his previous incoice to veryify what I paid at the time. 
After a certain time its very hard to verify matters like this-is there a statue of limitation or such like on invoicing? Does the fact that this invoice refers to a tax have any relevance -taxes due to revenue remain due-in all case? As revenue are paid -is it just an amount of money due between 2 parties?
Not sure if this is in correct sections-please move as required.


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## mathepac (15 Aug 2008)

AFAIK a supplier / service provider has six years within which to raise an invoice to a customer.


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## Luternau (16 Aug 2008)

Thanks for reply. 6 years seems like a long time to be able to issue invoice. Would be interested in hearing more views on this.


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## mercman (16 Aug 2008)

I think six years is the period of time all right. The fact that you have lost the invoice won't do you any favours especially if your other matter (in another post) comes back looking for papers and you might require the help of the solicitor. As well as that in the case you end up being sued by a legal firm won't do your credit rating any good.


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## jhegarty (16 Aug 2008)

Luternau said:


> Thanks for reply. 6 years seems like a long time to be able to issue invoice. Would be interested in hearing more views on this.




yep , they have 6 years to go after it....

how near the 6th year are you ?


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## rmelly (16 Aug 2008)

> how near the 6th year are you ?


 
Does it matter? Are you suggesting running the clock down? OP owes the money - pay it unless he can prove he doesn't owe it.


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## bond-007 (16 Aug 2008)

If you don't acknowledge the invoice the clock keeps ticking.

It is very bad form to be carrying on business in this manner. A solicitor should invoice in a timely manner. I would be querying the matter and I certainly would not be settling for the full amount.


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## jhegarty (16 Aug 2008)

rmelly said:


> Are you suggesting running the clock down?




yes

the op came for advise on a finical matter , not moral advise....


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## rmelly (16 Aug 2008)

jhegarty said:


> yes
> 
> the op came for advise on a finical matter , not moral advise....


 
Where's the moral advice? OP got his answer - 6 years why don't we ALL leave it at that?

Yes we can argue that the solicitor shouldn't have left it 5 years blah blah blah, but it happened and as other posters have said the solicitor is within his rights. 

Is paying ones debts a moral issue? Maybe I've missed something?

I'd view it from a more practical viewpoint - ultimately if the solictor is not satisfied he may choose to make life difficult for the OP.


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## bond-007 (16 Aug 2008)

> ultimately if the solictor is not satisfied he may choose to make life difficult for the OP.


Judging by his previous behaviour he does not seem that well organised.


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## shesells (17 Aug 2008)

Luternau said:


> I knew the amount of duty paid and assumed it had been taken from the funds released to the solicitor by my bank.


 
I always thought that banks would not let you borrow for stamp duty as it is not an asset to the property? If this was the case then the stamp duty would not have been included in the money released by the bank?


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## Luternau (17 Aug 2008)

Thanks for all the posts-seems like a started a slightly fractious discussion. I am not looking for moral advice-just advice of a financial kind. 
I always pay whats due -it comes as a shock to get a bill for a few k over 5yrs after the transaction (but not as much as 6yrs  ). I cannot be certain that I have paid this or not-the sol does not seem to be keeping the best of records. I will definately be seeking to discuss this matter with the solicitor-this does not seem good practice to me.

Mercman-yes, this came to light in relation to the audit, but its not a matter of concern in that regard-I needed dates, and the solicitor provided the dates and then told me that the amount was never billed to me.

Originally Posted by sheshells


> I always thought that banks would not let you borrow for stamp duty as it is not an asset to the property? If this was the case then the stamp duty would not have been included in the money released by the bank?


This is not relevant to the question. Banks do what they do and in this case they gave me enough money to pay all remaining expenses. I had paid 10% deposit, so I was getting some of my own money back in the amount released at closing.


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## Vanilla (18 Aug 2008)

It is poor form on your solicitors part to wait this lenght of time, although he is within the statutory time period. I would certainly make an appointment and speak to him about this. He may make a gesture to keep your business with him.

Certainly ask for an account showing all receipts and payments by your solicitor in relation to this purchase which should give a breakdown of the money received from the bank and all payments from it first.


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## mercman (18 Aug 2008)

This is an amount owing for Tax paid on the ops behalf. Therefore a gesture would be hard to imagine. Everything is relative but the fees charged will determine if a gesture was forthcoming. e.g. was the OP charged 2.5% or 0.75 % for his conveyancing work ??


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## Bronte (18 Aug 2008)

Your solicitor is extremely kind to have paid stamp duty for you, most would demand this up front.  His accountancy skills are sadly lacking if he only noticed it hadn't been paid by you 5 years later.  It's also strange that you didn't get a balancing statement at the time that would have alerted you to the fact that the stamp duty needed to be paid.  You should go through your bank records to see what you paid to the solicitor and what mortgage amount you received to double check that you didn't pay it.  Your solicior must have a record of what you paid as well which you can ask for.


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## mf1 (18 Aug 2008)

Am I the only one who wonders why OP did not check his own figures? 

Most of my clients know to the penny how much they are paying (a) for the property (b) for stamp duty and (c) for fees. They know whether they are paying from their own resources or borrowing and, if borrowing, how much they need to borrow. 

If involved in property investment, they know that they should keep adequate records of their own finances to deal with any future Revenue investigations. 

Now, equally, many of my clients treat me as a form of pet P.A. who, many years after dealing with me, still expect me to have better records of their finances than they do themselves.

Oh, and equally, would it be different if OP had discovered solicitor owed him money 5 years later?

mf


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## Luternau (18 Aug 2008)

Bronte said:


> Your solicitor is extremely kind to have paid stamp duty for you, most would demand this up front.  It's also strange that you didn't get a balancing statement at the time that would have alerted you to the fact that the stamp duty needed to be paid.  .



My Solicitor had my money up front to pay all expenses incurred-I have already said this. He had no need to pay this from his account. When he billed me -a printout of the stamping doc from revenue was included. At this stage I knew it was paid and thought he had paid it from my funds. That is a reasonable assumption to make. 

At the time I was working overseas and unfortunately some of my docs have been mislaid in moving home-this balancing statement is one of them. These things happen-if I needed a duplicate for revenue or whatever I knew I could get this from my solicitor.

Apart from this, I am very good at keeping docs and records so please dont be on here saying I should have done this or that- my solicitor is the one that has caused this mess-not me. Neither can I influence how he orgainses his accounts or handles 3rd party funds. 

My solicitor had enough money to pay this (from my funds-not his) and over 5yrs later he is telling me that he paid it with his own. It makes no sense to me that he could have done this-hence my post for advice.


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## ubiquitous (18 Aug 2008)

How much was the stamp duty, approximately?


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## bond-007 (18 Aug 2008)

Then you really need to make an appointment with him to discuss the situation.


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## mf1 (18 Aug 2008)

"My solicitor had enough money to pay this (from my funds-not his) and over 5yrs later he is telling me that he paid it with his own. It makes no sense to me that he could have done this-hence my post for advice."

So did he refund you your money then? In which case, did you not then, ultimately, have in your account more money than you should have had? And if he did not refund the money then does he not still have it? 

I'm lost. 


mf


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## Luternau (18 Aug 2008)

mf1 said:


> I'm lost.
> 
> mf



If you want to pick holes to make holes then I can understand you becoming lost. 
I may have the equivalent amount of money in my account -but then again I may not. I have already said that I do not have the balancing statement to show the transfer-how more plainly can I say that ? I will also be contactin the bank. What relevance is the balance in my bank account to recieving an invoice over 5yrs late? This seems bad practice. Equally how can I know whether he still has the money in his account -5 yrs is a long time!

Thanks for all your posts -I was looking for some direction before contacting the sol. Thankfully the amount is only a few thousand (less than 10k)-so I am sure something can be ironed out through a meeting.


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## mf1 (18 Aug 2008)

"I may have the equivalent amount of money in my account -but then again I may not. I have already said that I do not have the balancing statement to show the transfer-how more plainly can I say that ? "

Ummm. 

It seems that you are having a Revenue audit. It seems that you contacted your solicitor for assistance - as you needed paperwork - which you yourself did not have. Because  it got lost. In putting the paperwork together, on a transaction  which occurred over 5 years, he thinks/says that you appear to owe him money. 

Now while I agree that it is not great  practice for a solicitor to have let this go for so long, I am just querying why clients should not themselves carry some ( considerable) degree of responsibility for their own financial affairs? It is a business after all. 

You may feel that this is all very personal but it is an entirely anonymous Board so no-one has any idea who you are and its just a question of people answering your query trying to work out what actually happened and what the broader picture shows. It is not personal. 

mf


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## Luternau (18 Aug 2008)

There is too much sherlock holmes going on here....

Yes I had an audit for stamp duty-yes I contacted my solicitor to confirm dates and amounts paid. I gave this to the revenue and they asked less questions than I have been asked here!!!!  

Had it not been that I contacted my solicitor to check dates and amounts paid, this would never have been invoiced to me. Is it a clients responsibility to be able to remember back over 5yrs ? I dont think it is. I believed I had settled my account with him at the time and at that point so did the solicitor.

Somewhat off topic but its been mentioned by two posters- the audit was instigated following something I reported to the Revenue in 2006.
As a result of info I provided them (on a major tax dodge) they wrote to me and informed me that I owed them tax under the stamp duties consoladation act.  I told them I had no problem paying this to them and for them to issue a notice of assesment to me or my solicitor, so I could pay it. Despite sending in the contracts on two occasions, as requested-the notice of assesment was never issued. I was then audited this year for non payment of this unknown amount of tax. 
So its not just private businesses that are bad at collecting money-but its ordinary guys like me that have to deal with the mess that ensues. Thankfully in this regard I have all the paperwork between me, my solicitor and the stamping office.


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## Vanilla (18 Aug 2008)

We are forever getting clients asking for accounts years after the event too. Nowadays we always send a balancing account and bill at the end of every transaction, and where there is a potential CGT charge we also send copy contracts and any other invoice ( such as auctioneers etc) that our client might need on closing. It's one of the most common requests. I don't have any problem with copying these things to clients, feel it is all part of the service. It is only annoying when the client or their accountant leaves it to the last minute and rings up in a panic needing it faxed to them immediately! We have to go and get the file out of archives and it takes a bit of time but I take the view that it's better to facilitate people where at all possible. After all repeat custom is very important. 

I think that you should get the account first, then speak to your solicitor in person.


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## newirishman (18 Aug 2008)

As far as I know, 2 years for non commercial by EU law.


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## Bronte (19 Aug 2008)

Luternau said:


> My Solicitor had my money up front to pay all expenses incurred-I have already said this. He had no need to pay this from his account. When he billed me -a printout of the stamping doc from revenue was included. At this stage I knew it was paid and thought he had paid it from my funds. That is a reasonable assumption to make.
> quote]  It was not clear that the money had been paid up front, if this is so then you won't owe the bill.  Just because you saw the document was stamped should not lead to the assumption that you had paid it.  If the amount you paid to the solicitor plus the funds you borrowed equal the mortgage, taxes and fees then you have no problem.  I believe you can get records from your bank if you have lost these, in any case the solicitor will have to go through it with you and show what he has received and what he paid.  I'd start with a call in to the solicitor.


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## TonyC (4 Sep 2008)

Interestingly, I've just received an invoice from an estate agent who was trying to sell a house for me about 15 months ago.  I just got a mail saying that while they were reviewing their books, they noticed this outstanding amount for advertising services.
I did receive and paid an invoice for advertising services prior to this, but this is out of the blue.  
I've checked my records and have no record of authorising this advertising.  
I've a notion that they've mixed me up with someone else (rather than that they're pulling a fast one).... 
In any event, I'll be requesting ever scrap of documentation relating to this expense before even considering paying anything.   Hugely shoddy performance!!


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