# Arnotts Furniture going to penalties: when you cant take delivery.



## gabbo (10 Oct 2009)

Hello,

Would like some advice as to my rights in this scenario. We purchased a couch in Arnotts about 2 weeks ago. Paid the amount in full and they attempted to deliver it last week. Delivery guys took one look at the hall door (which is a standard hall door) and said "no chance". Couch is 2.6m long, one piece.

Went in to Arnott's Furniture and talked to same salesman we purchased from. Told him the only other couch we were interested in was 300 more (but was in two pieces). He said he would see if he could do anything for us next week but said 
"you know, I'm trying to help you, I don't want you to have to pay the penalties". 
"Sorry, what penalties?" I replied. 
"Penalties since you couldn't take delivery. Delivery is your responsibility, you don't want to go there with the penalties", he stated.

I replied that he didn't want to go there, that he sold us a couch and we asked "will this fit through a standard door" to which his answer was yes.

I didn't lose the cool with him, as perhaps they will come half way on the difference to the other couch next wek, but surely he's talking rubbish and just trying to scare us?

On another, somewhat unrelated event, when paying same salesman he said "there's nothing on it" when handed a wedding present voucher card. I was sure there was, so after paying in cash, went down to customer service to enquire further - "oh yes, 100 euro on that card". He refunded the extra 100 cash we had to pay when told of the error, but wasn't too pushed about what was a fairly serious mistake.

I was warned twice by two friends about Arnott's furniture (more about their delivery timelines), I'm beginning to regret ever going in there.

If this nasty salesman tries to get us to pay penalties next week, is he trying it on?


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## mercman (10 Oct 2009)

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So it's Arnotts and in particular the salesman's fault that they all didn't know your house and the fact that you didn't have precise measurements and information.

Now you regret going to Arnotts. There are many thousands of customers that are very happy they went to Arnotts and many more that regret not doing so. Think about the people that went to Jim Franeys, paid for the goods and the crown went bust.

Get real before you embarrass yourself and make your episode and dilemma a real joke.


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## gabbo (10 Oct 2009)

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We did have measurements, a standard door - which is 36" wide. We told him it was a standard hall door. Did you read the message?


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## Mommah (10 Oct 2009)

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Well Gabbo I'm sorry you are in this pickle.
But anytime I buy furniture I do all the measurements myself.
I would never assume the salesman who know the dimensions of my house.
The furniture business is an extremely difficult one right now.
I think arnotts would like to work with you.
But they ordered that sofa for you and its now just going to be more stock to off-load, probably at a discount, included the cost of
your delivery.
To be honest I feel sorry for Arnotts.
I've bought a fair bit of furniture there over the years and found them very good.


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## mercman (10 Oct 2009)

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Did you consider that it might be the length of the couch and not the width which may make it impossible to get into the property ??


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## gabbo (10 Oct 2009)

*Re: Arnotts Furniture going to penalties*

True, and we'd definitely like to work with Arnotts. And to be fair, the salesman and I had more or less come to an agreement, he just has to square it with accounts. It was a totally amicable encounter, but just as a parting comment, all smiles, he said the "I don't want you to have to pay the penalties". It was a totally unnecessary thing to say. 

However, I checked all the documentation subsequently and there is no mention of "if you buy this it can get in the house".

As I say, we did have the dimensions of the door and it was something they have in stock anyway, as they could have delivered it the next day, it was us who stalled in order to get rid of the old one. How and ever, we want a couch not a row, so hopefully it'll get sorted next week.


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## gabbo (10 Oct 2009)

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mercman said:


> Did you consider that it might be the length of the couch and not the width which may make it impossible to get into the property ??



You're not helping, throwing out these nonsensical statements and seem quite angry, or work for Arnotts. One of the other.


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## mercman (10 Oct 2009)

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No. I do not work for Arnotts and have no connection with them. But you will find many many people that have  purchased from them over the many years and found their service impeccable. You're the one that seems angry. not me. At least that want to work with you not simply throw the couch on the side of the road.


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## gabbo (10 Oct 2009)

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mercman said:


> No. I do not work for Arnotts and have no connection with them. But you will find many many people that have  purchased from them over the many years and found their service impeccable. You're the one that seems angry. not me. At least that want to work with you not simply throw the couch on the side of the road.




What are you talking about - who mentioned throwing anything on the side of the road? Where did that image come from? I certainly have said nothing about discarding a couch, well wait...we did get rid of the *old* couch. But that was the *old* one, what I'm discussing here is the *new* couch, get it? One old, one new. New one = arnotts. If I had more time, I'd draw you a picture...

How do you know there aren't many people who have *not* found their service impeccable? I'm talking about a single incident that I know happened and you're generalising to hundreds or thousands of incidents and stating that everyone was happy! How in the name of all that's upholstered do you know? You're just making stuff up now. I came looking for advice, not from a rant from crazy crack-pots like you. 

They're handing out Nobel prizes for nothing these days - I'm going to recommend you get the Nobel prize for missing the point completely, making up stuff and sounding nuts...


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## Sue Ellen (10 Oct 2009)

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mercman said:


> Think about the people that went to Jim Franeys, paid for the goods and the crown went bust.



Presumably you mean Jim Langans.


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## gabbo (10 Oct 2009)

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Sue Ellen said:


> Presumably you mean Jim Langans.




Who know's what he means, he's off his rocker (no pun intended!)


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## Sue Ellen (10 Oct 2009)

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Hi Gabbo,

Will attempt to give you some advice and not add to your stressful situation.  Like you I find it annoying when someone comes to AAM for help and advice and finds themselves drawn into unnecessary arguments as above, which only adds to their upset.

If I were in your situation I would ask to speak to the manager over the furniture department and let them know about what has gone on to-date including the voucher problem.  If you cannot get to speak to the manager insist on dealing with their customer service department.

Hope you get it sorted.


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## vandriver (10 Oct 2009)

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Jim Frayney is a respected supplier of frozen food products


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## mercman (10 Oct 2009)

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vandriver said:


> Jim Frayney is a respected supplier of frozen food products




Sincere apologies for this error. And also to the OP for getting up their goat. You sought advice and I made matters worse. Apologies and I do hope you get sorted.


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## Ann1 (10 Oct 2009)

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Just a thought gabbo. If Arnotts use contractors to make deliveries the salesman may have been referring to the cost for taking the couch back to the Arnotts warehouse.


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## bullworth (10 Oct 2009)

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You can legally buy a couch even if you live in a hostel. Your own living arrangements aren't anyones business but your own. Unless you had someone from Arnotts inside your house before the purchase then its your own fault. Arnotts fulfilled all their responsibilities and were doing business with an responsible adult who made the decision to buy their product.  You choose the couch. You knew your own house and you knew the couch before you paid for the transaction. You paid them to deliver it and it was delivered. They did no wrong. If you had demolished half your house that would be none of their business apart from fulfilling their end of the deal which is to deliver the couch you bought and paid for.  Arnotts is a department store, not a counselling service. No business can function otherwise. I would'nt order a couch  unless I'd made sure it would fit in my house. If someone buys a car from me and then comes back a few days later and complains that he doesn't have a parking space, my attitude is thats' tough.  Dont take my view the wrong way. Everybody makes mistakes; just some mistakes are bigger than others. Caveat emptor however Arnotts is not some fly by night huckster shop looking to give bad quality and bad service for a fast buck. Can you take a credit note and wait until you find a couch which suits you better ?


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## gabbo (11 Oct 2009)

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bullworth said:


> You can legally buy a couch even if you live in a hostel. Your own living arrangements aren't anyones business but your own. Unless you had someone from Arnotts inside your house before the purchase then its your own fault. Arnotts fulfilled all their responsibilities and were doing business with an responsible adult who made the decision to buy their product.  You choose the couch. You knew your own house and you knew the couch before you paid for the transaction. You paid them to deliver it and it was delivered. They did no wrong. If you had demolished half your house that would be none of their business apart from fulfilling their end of the deal which is to deliver the couch you bought and paid for.  Arnotts is a department store, not a counselling service. No business can function otherwise. I would'nt order a couch  unless I'd made sure it would fit in my house. If someone buys a car from me and then comes back a few days later and complains that he doesn't have a parking space, my attitude is thats' tough.  Dont take my view the wrong way. Everybody makes mistakes; just some mistakes are bigger than others. Caveat emptor however Arnotts is not some fly by night huckster shop looking to give bad quality and bad service for a fast buck. Can you take a credit note and wait until you find a couch which suits you better ?



I take you point, but to use your analogy of the car - if I bought a car and said to the salesman "I need the car to be able to be narrow enough to fit in Irish motorway lanes" and it's not, it's too wide - well, he's the guy selling cars day in day out, surely he knows this stuff. I've been oversold a product. Ok the hostel is your extreme example, but to take it to the other extreme, do I need to turn up to Arnotts with CAD drawings and architect's blueprints? Is that the extent you need to go to to buy a couch? Then it would become a very costly experience. Surely knowing the basic barrier, the size of the door and the salesman choosing to ignore this is the issue.

I mean to say,  I don't sell furniture everyday, so when I say to someone who is an expert (not necessarily a counsellor, just someone who is supposed to know their job) - "the door is a standard door", well everyone who has done any sort of DIY, basic refurbishment, whatever in Ireland knows a standard door is 36. Now if the couch subsequently doesn't fit through it and actually requires a barn door, then what was the salesman thinking?

We were in Reid's about a month ago and while I'm not mad on their stock at all, one couch did look quite nice. The lady said to us "this is a 39" deep couch, unless you have specially modified doors, i.e. bigger than 36" it won't fit". That's a verbatim quote of a lady who knew her job, wasn't thinking about the quick sale and avoided a whole heap of hassle for everyone involved....


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## gabbo (11 Oct 2009)

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Ann1 said:


> Just a thought gabbo. If Arnotts use contractors to make deliveries the salesman may have been referring to the cost for taking the couch back to the Arnotts warehouse.



Would totally be agreeable to pay a standard delivery charge.


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## gabbo (11 Oct 2009)

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bullworth said:


> Can you take a credit note and wait until you find a couch which suits you better ?



Well I guess that's why I'm going to contact the consumer advice bureau Monday, because my understanding is that I don't have to take a credit note and ....<perjorative word removed by moderator> Be careful of defamation especially use of the word like "rip-off" and "scam"


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## MandaC (11 Oct 2009)

I am going to back Arnotts on this one too.  Years ago I worked for a popular furniture retailler, no longer with us.   The amount of people who purchased huge couches/beds, etc and then had serious issues trying to get them into the house was unreal.  I could tell you some funny stories. 

Just as bad was when people bought 3-2-1 suites of furniture and then could not get into their living room because the suites took up all the room.  It got to the stage where the shop could not take back the suites(who wants a lime green dotted 3 piece) as they were custom made.  No matter how many times you told people to check the measurements, same thing still occurred.  Sometimes people ended up having their sitting room window taken out, to get the furniture in.

I think Arnotts are being fair with you.  The flip side, you picked out the sofa two weeks ago, which seems to be a short lead time, so perhaps the couch was a stock item and might not be bad for them to restock as it was not a special order for you.  Have you checked your docket and does it state anything about measurements, I would be surprised if it does not.

I would be more annoyed about them telling you there is nothing on the wedding card, that is careless and could have led to a customer losing money.  Would definitely point that out, but in a nice way.

Can I just say here that if I were you I would try to "play ball" in as far as I could.  A firm, friendly, positive attitude will get you everywhere with this.    When I was dealing with a customer who had made a hames of their own order suite and was nice about it, , you would go out of your way to help them.   Other people just wanted to blame the shop, the staff, the sofa manufacturers for their mistake and it was very easy just to point out that at the end of the day, it responsibility  was on them to check their own measurements.  I agree, everybody makes mistakes, these things happen and it is how the problem is approached that will lead to the best outcome for you.

Good Luck with it.


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## John Rambo (11 Oct 2009)

What a hilarious thread...it sounds to me like Arnotts have a commission structure and it impacts on the salesman's commission if the customer pays with a voucher. I've seen this before - make a complaint about the salesman. As for the couch issue - that's entirely your fault. I've bought from Arnotts myself and never had an issue.


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## bullworth (11 Oct 2009)

*Re: Arnotts Furniture going to penalties*



gabbo said:


> Now if the couch subsequently doesn't fit through it and actually requires a barn door, then what was the salesman thinking?



But what were _you_ thinking ? If I have a terraced house where I cant' swing a cat yet buy a couch requiring a barn door for entry then its my own fault if it doesn't fit in the door and my own responsibility to use it as my property once I have paid for it. Or if I order a washing machine from DID, it's not their problem if I don't have running water. They are not a plumbing service and neither can Arnotts be expected to know every idiosyncrasy of your house. They can give your the measurements of the couch and you can then check that against your own. Unless they gave you the wrong measurements then how could they be responsible ? If you took the wrong measurements for your own house then that was unlucky but still your problem and not theirs. A couch is a low tech product. Its not something complicated like a computer where advice about operating systems  and hardware compatibility is required. They didn't sell you MAC software to install on your windows operating system. A degree or much specialist knowledge is not necessary to buy or sell a couch.
My view is the same. I would think unless a customer has special needs; is blind or has a disability, then a customer doesnt' need any special help when it comes to buying a piece of furniture. Anyway  sorry for your troubles. I dont' want to lecture you. I hope it works out and that neither yourself or Arnotts lose out from this and I hope the salesman doesn't lose his job in this economic climate.


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## peelabee (11 Oct 2009)

Hi Gabbo,
Not getting much sympathy on this one!  I'm with you on this however.  Just out of curiosity, what depth is the couch?  Personally, I would think, the fact that the couch was in stock, means they are no worse off now, as you have agreed to pay the delivery/return.
I would definately make it known to the General Manager of the store re the gift card issue - most people would have taken sales persons word for it and not double checked and could have binned it.
Good Luck and let us know how it goes.
Peelabee


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## Sue Ellen (12 Oct 2009)

*Re: Arnotts Furniture going to penalties*



mercman said:


> Sincere apologies for this error. And also to the OP for getting up their goat. You sought advice and I made matters worse. Apologies and I do hope you get sorted.


 
Fair dues.


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## dinjoecurry (12 Oct 2009)

I don't want to stir things up but if gabbo asked the salesman " will this fit through a standard door" and it did not fit even though her door is 36" (wider than standard) surely he had made an error or was not familiar with a standard door measurement.I would think when selling furniture knowing standard door sizes would be essential.
The bit about Jim Langan is really a bit off the mark as when you buy something you assume the retailer is safe but in todays climate who knows who is safe


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## Noilheart (18 Jan 2010)

I was just checking through posts looking for posts about sofas and came across this post tonight and would like to add my tuppence ha'penny worth - I recently bought a Sealy mattress from Arnotts and was very pleased with their delivery - on time and correct mattress in excellent condition.  And the great thing was they called again two weeks later wanting to deliver the very same order again!!   I was tempted to just take it in and sell it off at a profit - but decency won out and I told them I had already received the order.  I find Arnotts a lovely store to deal with, with pleasant staff etc. but have not bought furniture there, only the mattress so far.


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## mercman (18 Jan 2010)

+1


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