# Is 27yo too old for Apprenticeship in Stone-Masonery or Bricklaying?



## elayno (1 Jun 2007)

Could somebody please offer me advice. 

My fiance is 27 and he hasnt much qualifications, but he is very interested in doing an Apprenticeship in Stone-Masonery or Bricklaying.  

He has been informed by FAS that he is too old for this.

Can anybody please advise on where he would go from here, and is there any other ways of getting into Apprenticeship programme, as he knows his age stands against him. 

Id really appreciate some advice


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## losttheplot (1 Jun 2007)

*Re: Apprenticeship*

Hi, not really sure how you would go about it -but is telling someone their too old not discrimination on the bases of age.

You could try directly applying stone masons etc and see have they vacancies.


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## ajapale (3 Jun 2007)

*Re: Apprenticeship*

Similar questions have been asked here recently. Do a search for apprentice or apprenticeship.


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## seantheman (3 Jun 2007)

i live in donegal near the fas training centre in gweedore, they run stonemason courses there and are at present doing work experience at the cemetry in annagry, i can assure you that quite a few of the men look a lot older than 27. they are not instructors either. i also met a galway man 2 years ago while he was up diing the course, he was in his late 30's


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## Purple (4 Jun 2007)

If a company turned down an applicant on the grounds of age they would be done for discrimination (and rightly so). The person in FAS who advised your fiancé is incorrect in law and ignorant of their own policy of social inclusion.
In any case your fiancé should get a stonemason to sponsor his apprenticeship, then he won't have any problems with FAS or anyone else.


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## elayno (15 Jun 2007)

My fiance has rang around a few places ie. stonemasons, and he has been told that they are only looking for people of School-leaving age, ie he is too old.. i think this is very very unfair, how is he supposed to get an apprentiship if people are discriminating on his age.. we are very annoyed and angry by this. If anyone can offer anymore advise again, we'd really appreciate it.


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## Welfarite (15 Jun 2007)

apart from the ageism factor, getting anyone to take you on as an apprentice is hard, i think. The employer has to release the trainee to Fás for a period and this really does not suit them. IMHO, he should forget about the actual qualification that an apprenticeship will get him. If he could find someone to work to and learn the trade, it will be enough. After all, many "unqualified" tradesmen are miles ahead of "qualified" ones and word of mouth (about your standtrad of work) is the only real qualification that works in the real world.


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## elayno (15 Jun 2007)

If anyone out there, knows anyone in the Limerick, Clare region looking for Stone-Mason or bricklaying Apprentiships, please let us know, best thanks


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## Purple (18 Jun 2007)

Welfarite said:


> apart from the ageism factor, getting anyone to take you on as an apprentice is hard, i think. The employer has to release the trainee to Fás for a period and this really does not suit them. IMHO, he should forget about the actual qualification that an apprenticeship will get him. If he could find someone to work to and learn the trade, it will be enough. After all, many "unqualified" tradesmen are miles ahead of "qualified" ones and word of mouth (about your standtrad of work) is the only real qualification that works in the real world.


 I agree. The curent training programme run bt FAS is very unfriendly for employers. It also produces a lower standard of tradesman. I have never asked for anyones certificate when hiring them. I look for experience and give them a trial period.


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## aircobra19 (18 Jun 2007)

Purple said:


> I agree. The curent training programme run bt FAS is very unfriendly for employers. It also produces a lower standard of tradesman. I have never asked for anyones certificate when hiring them. I look for experience and give them a trial period.



How does it produce a lower standard?


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## Purple (18 Jun 2007)

aircobra19 said:


> How does it produce a lower standard?



.Sorry, to clarify; in my opinion it produces a lower standard to the old system where the first 9 months was off the job training and was followed by two three month block releases in the third and fourth year. There were two external exams; junior and senior trade cert. The system now has continuous assessment that is carried out by the employer. This may work in the ESB or Dublin Bus but it's all BS for small firms who don't have the resources to have semi-fulltime training officers. The result has been a massive drop in companies sponsoring apprentices.


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## aircobra19 (18 Jun 2007)

I can understand why that might result in drop in companies sponsoring apprentices. But why would quality of the apprentices suffer? Same training is it not? Or is there less on the job training now and its theres more classwork?


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## Purple (18 Jun 2007)

aircobra19 said:


> I can understand why that might result in drop in companies sponsoring apprentices. But why would quality of the apprentices suffer? Same training is it not? Or is there less on the job training now and its theres more classwork?


The quality has dropped because in practice the assessments are not carried out to any universal standard. It would be like teachers correcting their own classes leaving cert papers. The fact that the apprentice used to enter the company with basic skills meant that he or she was useful from day one. That is no longer the case and the stop-start nature of the training makes it harder to acquire skills. We have stopped offering apprenticeships in the last few years as it is too disruptive and we find that after four years the trainees are of a lower standard to those that we just trained in-house for the same period of time. 
It’s a pity as there is a real shortage of skilled trades in the non-building sectors. We not recruit in Poland and the UK, not because of wage costs, just because we cant get the people in this country.


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## aircobra19 (18 Jun 2007)

Purple said:


> ....we find that after four years the trainees are of a lower standard to those that we just trained in-house for the same period of time....



So the formal in center education and experience is not of much value compared to on the job experience. Interesting.


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## Purple (19 Jun 2007)

aircobra19 said:


> So the formal in center education and experience is not of much value compared to on the job experience. Interesting.



That's my experience and the experience of others I know.


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## elayno (20 Jun 2007)

Welfarite said:


> apart from the ageism factor, getting anyone to take you on as an apprentice is hard, i think. The employer has to release the trainee to Fás for a period and this really does not suit them. IMHO, he should forget about the actual qualification that an apprenticeship will get him. If he could find someone to work to and learn the trade, it will be enough. After all, many "unqualified" tradesmen are miles ahead of "qualified" ones and word of mouth (about your standtrad of work) is the only real qualification that works in the real world.


 

So your basically saying that he shouldnt go look for an " Apprentiship" but a job.. But he wouldnt have his qualification at the end of the day. and plus he wouldnt be paid obviously as an apprentice..


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## nai (20 Jun 2007)

Friend of mine left an accountancy job age 28 to start as apprentice electrician - said it was a wee bit difficult initially getting someone to take him on but once he met a couple of potential employers they were all offering to take him on - he said it was alot down to attitude and the fact that the smaller places were interested in someone who would turn up on time, had a good attitude, was mature, responsible etc had alot to do with him being taken on - 

get your fiance to try meet some stonemasons face to face and see about developing a rapport with them - they may be more interested in someone older.


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## Purple (20 Jun 2007)

elayno said:


> and plus he wouldnt be paid obviously as an apprentice..


Apprentices are paid. The rates are low, the FAS website gives details.


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## elayno (24 Jun 2007)

thanks for your advice everyone


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