# Short Time & Redundancy



## rezman (23 Jul 2009)

Hi, I have a few queries on short time week and redundancy if anyone can help me figure it out.

I have been working for a firm for 5 years. Since Jan we have all been put on 3 day week (with 3/5ths pay), we will have no work (or wage) for the month of August, and from Sept we will be on 3 day week (with 2/5ths previous pay, i.e. 33% pay cut). As far as I can tell this means we are moving into a period of short-time week.

On the DETE "Guide to Redundancy Payments" it gives the following:



> Lay-off or Short-time (Form RP9)
> 
> This can arise where an employee has been laid off or kept on short-time or a mixture of both either for four consecutive weeks or for a broken series of six weeks where all six weeks occur within a
> 13 week period. The employee, if he then wishes to claim redundancy payment must serve a written notice (Form RP9 is available for this purpose) stating that he intends to claim because of lay-off or short-time, or give his employer notice in writing terminating his contract of employment (Form RP9 may be used for this purpose). The employee does not have to serve either of these notices as soon as he has been laid off or kept on short-time for either of the periods mentioned above. He can wait longer, if he chooses, but if the short-time or lay-off stops and if he does decide to claim, he must serve a notice not later than four weeks after the lay-off or short-time ceases. After that, he is debarred from claiming a payment in respect of that particular period of lay-off or short-time.


It also states:




> (1) Treatment of Short-time Wages (i.e. working for less than half a week or earning less than half a week’s wages e.g. a 2 day week) for Redundancy calculation purposes. It has long been the view of the Employment Appeals Tribunal, even before the enactment of the Redundancy Payments Act, 2003, that when a person is put on short-time i.e. working less than half the number of hours they are normally expected to work in any week or earning less than half their normal weekly earnings, e.g. a 2 day week, the gross wage for the calculation of a redundancy lump sum is based on a full week’s pay.


 

So it states that "The employee does not have to serve either of these notices as soon as he has been laid off or kept on short-time for either of the periods mentioned above. He can wait longer, if he chooses" but it does not state here how long the employee can wait? 
Can they wait indefinitely? 

It also does not mention phrases like "if the employee fully accepted the reduced working hours" or "the employee must request a return to a full time week" as it does in the 'guidelines to Reduced working hours' section. 
Does all this mean an employee does not have to notify the employer that they want to return to full time hours and they can be on short time indefinitely and yet their redundancy would still be based on their full time wage?

Thanks in advance if anyone can help.


----------



## glong (24 Jul 2009)

Hi Rezman

It sounds like you have been working reduced hours rather than short time. Short time for redundancy purposes is when you work less than half your normal hours. 

During August, it sounds like you will be in a lay off situation. And in September you will be working reduced hours again.

As you pointed out, if you are laid off or put on short time for four consecutive weeks you can claim redundancy. You should be aware that your employer is not obliged to pay you for a notice period if you initiate the redundancy.

If you are on reduced hours and you are later made redundant, the redundancy payment depends on two things. If you are made redundant within one year of going on reduced hours, the payment is based on a full week. If you are made redundant after one year of going on reduced hours, the payment depends on whether or not you were "constantly seeking to be put back on full time working". 

In terms of redundancy payments, it is a good idea to have a record that you do not accept the change in working arrangements.

I hope this helps a little,

Graham Long
Citizens Information


----------



## candygirl (5 Aug 2009)

What do you mean by record?I am on verbal terms with my boss all the time,do i just ask him for letters saying i am not happy with my reduced hours?my boss mingles in with the lads and isnt some bloke aloof up in a fancy office you see once a year.I am in a similer situation..


----------



## glong (7 Aug 2009)

Hi

one way to do this would be to send your boss a letter asking to be put back on normal hours if possible. You then keep a copy and this is part of your record.

Graham


----------



## candygirl (9 Aug 2009)

I see,but who will look for that record?Him or the dept of employment?Do i only need this record if the employer refuses to give me full redundancy even tho i asked him to go back on full time.What if he is giving me full redundancy and never mentions short time redundancy,i wont need the record then surely?


----------



## Black Sheep (9 Aug 2009)

And if he's not giving full redundancy then it will be too late to send him the letters (that you did not write) requesting to be returned to full time hours


----------

