# Why did you vote FF?



## Grumpy (27 May 2007)

Have come to the conclusion that I'm completely out of touch with the pulse of the nation.I need drastic re-eduction.
In the mood Bertie is in, he will put his enemies to the sword.Watch out RTE! Watch out mejia!Am expecting Revenue Audit any day now.
No TV licence fee increase, no reform of libel laws, Tony O'Reilly to be elevated to new House of Lords.
Is it tribal? Dubs believe in concept of nation, as all tribes reside here.For the rest, its Us and Them.


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## almo (27 May 2007)

I'm unlike citizens of other nations (USA, Croatia, Gabon) who are allowed to vote in their countries elections.  While the spectrum of 1st to 3rd world countries are allowed a say in what happens at home, irish abroad are disenfranchised.  So I'm not to blame.

I've marvelled at the level of bile spouted at SF, and at the ham-fisted attacks on the outgoing (and incoming?) taoiseach.  Instead of attacking FF on what they've done wrong, it seems the country focussed on alleged payments and the various local squabbles.  The economy seems to be okay, for now, so why change horses in mid race?

What has surprised me most of all is the attitude among the "sports fans" in the country.  The facilities are poor and getting more so, Primary Schools are underfunded and unloved in this area, so why wasn't there a general uprising?  Why did the GAA stronghold of Kerry not put Mr. O'Donoghue to the sword for not supporting greater access to the Tallaght Stadium?  It's just too weird.

And one last thing, PJ Mara announced his retirement as a campaign adviser, I wonder has anyone told the Croatian ruling party this as he signed up to help them remain in power this November!


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## Humpback (27 May 2007)

almo said:


> I'm unlike citizens of other nations (USA, Croatia, Gabon) who are allowed to vote in their countries elections. While the spectrum of 1st to 3rd world countries are allowed a say in what happens at home, irish abroad are disenfranchised. So I'm not to blame.


 

Boo hoo for you! If you're not willing to live here, why should you have a say in how this country is run, or who it's citizens who pay their taxes here decide to vote!


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## almo (27 May 2007)

Not willing to knuckledrag and be rude I'll simply say that, actually I do pay my taxes in Ireland, and I would love to live there but work has me abroad.  I've always voted in each referendum and election (local, national and european) when at home, which is a lot, and more than most who live in Ireland do.  So do a favour, save the snottiness for tissues, it's out of order and place. 



ronan_d_john said:


> Boo hoo for you! If you're not willing to live here, why should you have a say in how this country is run, or who it's citizens who pay their taxes here decide to vote!


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## auto320 (27 May 2007)

I would go further on this, at the risk of drifting away from the OP. I believe that anyone born in Ireland who had to emigrate in the bad years should have a vote here, via our embassies abroad as is the case for other civilised countries. The fact that we exclude a large tranche of our citizens from the democratic process does us no credit.


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## ClubMan (27 May 2007)

I disagree and feel that only citizens who are resident here should be allowed vote. Imagine, for example, what effect all the _Noraid _supporters in the _US _would have had on the democratic process if they had a vote in the 80s/90s!?


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## shanegl (28 May 2007)

I agree. I don't think you should have a say in the government of what effectively is a foreign country. You should only have a say in a government that governs you.


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## ClubMan (28 May 2007)

With reference to the original post - I voted for everybody in my constituency. All 13 of them. Starting at the bottom and working up. Obviously _FF _got a preference along the way. Do I have to explain why?


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## almo (28 May 2007)

So you mean to say that despite playing taxes at home I have no say.  Or that all those who emigrated (esp to the UK) and whose remittances kept the country afloat in the bad old days should be totally disenfranchised?  But to remedy that I should be allowed vote here instead?  

1st of all a person cannot vote in this country (Croatia) unless they are a native or hold a passport, the fact that I live here means that I am effectively stateless, I cannot vote in my homeland and cannot vote here.  So the fact that I pay taxes in 2 countries and contribute means that I am less entitled to have a say in the running in either than some loafer who sponges off the state?  Come on, nobody can buy that.



shanegl said:


> I agree. I don't think you should have a say in the government of what effectively is a foreign country. You should only have a say in a government that governs you.


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## nelly (28 May 2007)

i voted locally, which meant i voted for the most active person in my area who happened to be a FF member. I only saw the rest of them come out of the woodwork when the election was called. 
Its such a pity to see the smaller parties squeezed out.


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## Sunny (28 May 2007)

almo said:


> So you mean to say that despite playing taxes at home I have no say.


 
No I think people like you should be allowed to vote as it is your money the government will be spending. Also people who are on holidays or backpackers away for a year etc should be allowed to vote. I think most people though would object to people who emigrate and become resident in another country and pay taxes in another country etc having a say in who runs the country back home.


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## almo (28 May 2007)

Thanks for the backing Sunny, though I do think that those who emigrate should be considered, for the simple fact that tens of thousands were shipped off to the UK and worked to build that country, yet largely remain forgotten and neglected there.  The money they sent back, remittances, kept the wolves from our door and 2 years ago I was out near Wanstead and wanted to visit the local Irish support centre.  It was closed as funding from Dublin was dropped years before.  I asked the local pp, a good Longford man, and he said that in the area there are still Irish emigrants living in total poverty as they worked in construction, services and so on with zero pension plans.  I know RTE did a couple of programmes to highlight this problem, so it's only in that sense that I'd push for a wider access to the vote.  

Personally speaking I'd vote wherever I lived as it's important to excercise the right.  I love Ireland, shed blood for it (not mine  , I was a boxer) and do feel annoyed and being unable to take part in the election.  But then again, it will take the greater electorate to push for change.


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## muesli (28 May 2007)

On a matter of principle, voting should be confined to the residents of the country - i.e. those who will have to live through the consequences of their political decisions. 

I was listening to the radio yesterday to John Gormley - he was saying that it was a real pity (irrespective of your political allegiances) that Irish politics will lose Michael  McDowell, Dan Boyle, Joe Higgins - I fully agree with him


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## Purple (28 May 2007)

muesli said:


> I was listening to the radio yesterday to John Gormley - he was saying that it was a real pity (irrespective of your political allegiances) that Irish politics will lose Michael  McDowell, Dan Boyle, Joe Higgins - I fully agree with him


 I agree. it will be far less interesting.


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## almo (28 May 2007)

Okay, one word....Bush!  Do you think if most of the world had a chance they'd have given their votes to Gore  Well, that implies that they'd be counted, or not put on scrub lists.



muesli said:


> On a matter of principle, voting should be confined to the residents of the country - i.e. those who will have to live through the consequences of their political decisions.
> 
> I was listening to the radio yesterday to John Gormley - he was saying that it was a real pity (irrespective of your political allegiances) that Irish politics will lose Michael McDowell, Dan Boyle, Joe Higgins - I fully agree with him


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## joe sod (29 May 2007)

Well nobody can complain about incompetence in government or poor planning or sprawl or 2 hour commutes or kyoto or dependance on multinationals now. Because the irish people have basically endorsed the last 10 years of fianna fail government. Another comment I read on the election is apt , the world has changed alot in the last 10 years yet irish people seem to be hoping that by putting back in fianna fail that everything can continue as before, unfortunately not even fianna fail can keep back the tides of change. Change will happen anyway irrespective of whether people voted for it or not


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## mollser (29 May 2007)

joe sod said:


> Well nobody can complain about incompetence in government or poor planning or sprawl or 2 hour commutes or kyoto or dependance on multinationals now. Because the irish people have basically endorsed the last 10 years of fianna fail government. Another comment I read on the election is apt



That line bugs me - especially the 'nobody can complain' bit.  I most certainly did not vote FF back in to government, even though it appears the majority have - surely I'm in a position to complain??!!


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## Purple (29 May 2007)

joe sod said:


> Well nobody can complain about incompetence in government or poor planning or sprawl or 2 hour commutes or kyoto or dependance on multinationals now. Because the irish people have basically endorsed the last 10 years of fianna fail government.


 Or were lots of them, like me, just utterly under whelmed by the alternative?


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## Firefly (29 May 2007)

joe sod said:


> Well nobody can complain about incompetence in government or poor planning or sprawl or 2 hour commutes or kyoto or dependance on multinationals now. Because the irish people have basically endorsed the last 10 years of fianna fail government.


Not sure if I follow the logic here Joe Sod....In my case I voted for FF as I think that FF are better than FG. Just because I helped put them there doesn't mean I can't give out....the very opposite in fact...of all people I should be able to give out as I helped put them there!!!!

Firefly.


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## Sunny (29 May 2007)

Purple said:


> Or were lots of them, like me, just utterly under whelmed by the alternative?


 

I was but then I didn't figure that the alternative to the alternative would be FF, Michael Lowry and Beverly Cooper Flynn!


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## Purple (29 May 2007)

Sunny said:


> I was but then I didn't figure that the alternative to the alternative would be FF, Michael Lowry and Beverly Cooper Flynn!



Good point!
Bring back the PD's...


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## elefantfresh (29 May 2007)

I miss the Mad Mullah already


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## Marion (29 May 2007)

> I was but then I didn't figure that the alternative to the alternative would be FF, Michael Lowry and Beverly Cooper Flynn!



I read somewhere over the weekend that RTE are bringing a case to have Beverly declared a bankrupt on June 11. If the outcome favours RTE, she will not be able to serve as a TD. 

Marion


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## diarmuidc (29 May 2007)

ClubMan said:


> I disagree and feel that only citizens who are resident here should be allowed vote.


The Irish Constitution states that all Irish citizens have the right to vote. No provisos.


shanegl said:


> You should only have a say in a government that governs you.


So I guess you support non Irish citizens resident in Ireland voting in Irish presidental and Dail elections?


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## Sunny (29 May 2007)

Marion said:


> I read somewhere over the weekend that RTE are bringing a case to have Beverly declared a bankrupt on June 11. If the outcome favours RTE, she will not be able to serve as a TD.
> 
> Marion


 
Nothing would make me happier but have my doubts it will ever happen or at least not for roughly 5 years!!


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## Marion (29 May 2007)

Here is the article from the Sunday Tribune

Marion


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## Sunny (29 May 2007)

diarmuidc said:


> The Irish Constitution states that all Irish citizens have the right to vote. No provisos.


 
The constitution says all Irish citizens "IN the Sate" have the right to vote. So I don't think a constitutional challange would work.



> So I guess you support non Irish citizens resident in Ireland voting in Irish presidental and Dail elections?


 
If they live here and pay taxes here, why shouldn't they have a vote? They shouldn't have a vote in their home country as well though.


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## whistler (29 May 2007)

Sunny said:


> If they live here and pay taxes here, why shouldn't they have a vote?


 
There are plenty of people in Ireland with a right to vote who don't pay taxes or contribute to the economy atall. They just take take take.


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## Purple (29 May 2007)

Sunny said:


> Nothing would make me happier


 Nothing?


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## Sunny (29 May 2007)

Purple said:


> Nothing?


 
Can't think of anything at the moment. I am a simple man!


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## boaber (29 May 2007)

Sunny said:


> If they live here and pay taxes here, why shouldn't they have a vote?



They do have a vote, just not in Dáil elections (except if your British)

Irish citizens can vote in every election and referendum 
British citizens may vote at Dáil, European and local elections 
Other EU citizens may vote at European and local elections 
Non-EU citizens can vote at local elections only


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## Purple (29 May 2007)

Sunny said:


> Can't think of anything at the moment. I am a simple man!



What did she do to you?
Would a go on Kate Beckinsale not make you happier?


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## shanegl (29 May 2007)

diarmuidc said:
			
		

> So I guess you support non Irish citizens resident in Ireland voting in Irish presidental and Dail elections?



Yep. If they're resident here and qualify to work here and all the rest then I think they should have a full say in how the country is run.


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## diarmuidc (29 May 2007)

Sunny said:


> The constitution says all Irish citizens "IN the Sate" have the right to vote. So I don't think a constitutional challange would work.


You need to read it again: Article 16 1-2 (i)All citizens  AND (ii)such other persons in the State as may be ...



Sunny said:


> If they live here and pay taxes here, why shouldn't they have a vote? They shouldn't have a vote in their home country as well though.


I am not arguing against it, I was just asking. Most people I think will not support that position.


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## JohnnyBoy (29 May 2007)

Sorry to stray slightly,but the biggest surprise for me(but maybe not the local constituents) was how the Green candidate in Galway West didn't get in.Can anyone enlighten me?


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## almo (29 May 2007)

Johnny, a lot was down to the poor performance in media terms of the Green Lord Mayor of Galway.  The water purity (or lack of), the statement about bulding a ring road around the city (which saw a big hoohaa within the party itself).  So basically local voters weren't so hot on the Greens.  Plus all those aran sweater wearing, pipe smoking, fiddle playing, story telling locals out west are really ravenous capitalists underneath that matted hair!

On the topic of non-Irish voting, if they live in the country 3 years or more can they vote?  I'd figure that's fair enough.


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## Gabriel (30 May 2007)

Why did I vote FF?

There is no alternative government. Until there is I will vote FF. I don't like them but they really are the best of a very, very bad bunch. I now know that a lot of the country agrees with me. 
Nothing was presented to me by either FG or Labour before or during the run up to the election that would make me think they were worthwhile. They blew it...that's why everyone voted FF...not because everyone loves Bertie!

There's an old saying which gets taken out of its box here from time to time...you get the government you deserve. In some ways that rings true...yesterdays transport fiasco was a prime example. People still think our transportation problem can be resolved by lowering emissions, more buses, more trains, a luas etc...clearly it just doesn't work. It helps...marginally, until we have to close one road...then chaos ensues again. 
Until we as a nation wake up and realise that drastic solutions will provide long term reward and change the face of life in the big smoke we will forever be faced with colloquial politics from small minded politicians...and get the type of leadership we deserve.

I will be writing to Bertie (yes Bertie) the first chance I get after the formation of the new government on this very subject.


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## redstar (31 May 2007)

I didn't vote for FF but I think I can see why 41% did. I think it boiled down to a simple question - do you want to change the govt or not ? Traditionally the core FF vote is in the high 30s who vote FF come-what-may. This is topped-up by a 'softer' FF vote of about 6%, which tends to bring them into the low 40's and victory. When about 5% of these shift elsewhere, FF lose. Not enough 'soft' FF voters saw any good reason to switch to the alternative. Plenty of non-FF voters moved to FG, but alas for them, not enough.

The alternatives (FG/Labour) simply did not convince a sufficient number of FF supporters to switch.


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## Grumpy (1 Jun 2007)

We have just told FF that systemic corruption and dishonesty are of little importance to us.Incompetence and massive waste in almost all areas which government are responsible for, just don't matter.Sure the lads are doing their best.They will read this message loud and clear.
         Did a vote for FF prevent Dell job losses and others that will follow?
A Nigerian told me recently that, despite large oil revenues, the most basic services continue to deteriorate or are not provided at all.


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## F. Kruger (1 Jun 2007)

Marion said:


> I read somewhere over the weekend that RTE are bringing a case to have Beverly declared a bankrupt on June 11. If the outcome favours RTE, she will not be able to serve as a TD. Marion


 
What is the 'rule' on this?

Is there not at least one sitting TD that has served a term in prison?


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## Purple (1 Jun 2007)

F. Kruger said:


> What is the 'rule' on this?
> 
> Is there not at least one sitting TD that has served a term in prison?



Robbing trains (Nicky Kelly ran for labour) or being a terrorist (most of SF) is OK but being bankrupt is not.


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## mmclo (1 Jun 2007)

Nicky Kelly is not a T.D.

The bankruptcy issue is pretty clear it is a straightforward disqualification from being a T.D. It's in the Electoral Acts rather than the Constitution.

I reckon she could settle the amount for less and borrow it over time or sell up something, Daddy has a few bob too so don't hold ur breath. Ahern really only needs the vote to get in then he can balance it depending on the vote and the issue, there is rarely a desire amongst independents for early elections


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## Purple (1 Jun 2007)

mmclo said:


> Nicky Kelly is not a T.D.


Yes, that's why I said that


Purple said:


> Nicky Kelly _ran_ for labour


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## Grumpy (1 Jun 2007)

Grumpy said:


> .....
> A Nigerian told me recently that, despite large oil revenues, the most basic services continue to deteriorate or are not provided at all.


......sorry, never finished rant.
Nigeria has a military/civilian elite that,increasingly, run the country for the benefit of themselves and their friends.
        Mention of Nicky Kelly has given me an idea.Bertie could arrange to have the Gardai torture confessions of criminality out of the required number of non-FF TDs and form a FF majority government.It won't harm our democracy as they could give them pardons in five years time and introduce legislation which, of course, would ensure it would never happen again.


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## RainyDay (1 Jun 2007)

Purple said:


> Robbing trains (Nicky Kelly ran for labour)


Wasn't Nicky's conviction for the train job overturned when news of the judge's regular naps during the trial leaked out? [And please don't mention his more recent convictions for driving offences]


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## Purple (4 Jun 2007)

RainyDay said:


> Wasn't Nicky's conviction for the train job overturned when news of the judge's regular naps during the trial leaked out?


 Yes, I forgot about that; the man is lilly white. 





RainyDay said:


> [And please don't mention his more recent convictions for driving offences]


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## Erith (5 Jun 2007)

ClubMan said:


> With reference to the original post - I voted for everybody in my constituency. All 13 of them. Starting at the bottom and working up. Obviously _FF _got a preference along the way. Do I have to explain why?



Please do. I presume then you voted for the nutcases on the anti-immigration and christian coalition platforms as well? Bizarre.


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