# My maintenance builder is my tenant, he hasnt completed work & stopped paying rent.



## noel123ie (7 Oct 2011)

Hi all

To cut a long story short Ive a guy renting for me who has not paid rent in 3 weeks. Originally he told me that he was getting rent allowance but has never confirmed this nor have I ever gotten a cheque from social welfare

Rent is paid weekly. He is a builder who I know is working as well as on the dole

Ive no rental agreement with him

This is where it gets complicated, He did up this house for me (I understand I should not have employed him while on social) liked it and then decided to rent it from me. He has not finished house even though he is in there since June. There is approx 2k worth of work to be done on this

He also did work for my brother worth 8000-9000k ,4000 of this has not been done. This is where I feel really bad as I recommended him

He has given me signed receipts in 2011 for total of work done which he now wants back

My options as I see it are

1 He is a proud member of master craftsmen of Ireland. I can say to him that I will be contacting them

2 Last week he asked me to recommend him to a guy that was looking at house with a view to giving him work. I did this as I hoped it would help me get funds from tenant, I can tell teneant Ill be calling him as I know where his business is based

3 The reciepts I have are ones I printed out with itemised items and his previous address where his partner lives. He has signed these. I could threaten to go to social with these as I also have his pps no. I am very careful though as I dont want to contact revenue and bring them down on me as well

I hope to give him a weeks notice this weekend and change locks . However I do not want to put a foot wrong as dont want to bring a case on myself if I handle this incorrectly 

Ive registered this with tenancy board

Ive dropped rent 120 a month to help him out as he said he was stuck for money but Ive seen him a no of times in the pub


Im in a bit of a fix so any help would be great
Many Thanks
Noel


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## elcato (7 Oct 2011)

> He did up this house for me( I understand I should not have employed him  while on social) liked it and then decided to rent it from me. He has  not finished house even though he is in there since June. There is  approx 2k worth of work to be done on this





> He also did work for my brother worth 8000-9000k ,4000 of this has not been done.


Have you and your brother paid him in advance for work to be done ? Get rid of him as quick and as legally as you can would be my advice. Don't change the locks, that's illegal. You need to approach him and tell him you are going to report him as per what you have said above and hope that  he spooks and goes away.


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## noel123ie (7 Oct 2011)

elcato said:


> Have you and your brother paid him in advance for work to be done ? Get rid of him as quick and as legally as you can would be my advice. Don't change the locks, that's illegal. You need to approach him and tell him you are going to report him as per what you have said above and hope that he spooks and goes away.


 
Hi Elcato

Thanks for the reply

yes have paid him in advance...foolish I know now but was trying to help the guy out

Yes meeting him tomorrow with my brother and will see what he says..Will keep you updated

Noel


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## ajapale (7 Oct 2011)

Title changed from:

_Urgent Issue with tenant please advise
to _
My builder is my tenant, he hasnt completed work & not is not paying rent.

Has the relationship with your builder/tenant completely broken down?


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## Luternau (7 Oct 2011)

noel123ie said:


> I dont want to contact revenue and bring them down on me as well



You say you have the tenancy registered-what would be the concern about the revenue for you? If this guy is claiming social welfare and working he deserves to be reported. You would think he would have the sense to finish his work and keep the focus away from him-seems to me he is getting greedy looking for more work, when he has plenty of unfinshed work to keep him busy already.


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## noel123ie (7 Oct 2011)

Ive tried to clal him a few times no reply to texts or calls

I went to the house last evening and he was in the pub unreal!

Yes hes unreal he must think we are weeds or very stupid

Im a nice guy but not that nice!

Thanks again all
Noel


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## Luternau (7 Oct 2011)

Given that you have been more than nice to him-I think you know what you should do next.


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## noel123ie (7 Oct 2011)

Luternau said:


> You say you have the tenancy registered-what would be the concern about the revenue for you? If this guy is claiming social welfare and working he deserves to be reported. You would think he would have the sense to finish his work and keep the focus away from him-seems to me he is getting greedy looking for more work, when he has plenty of unfinshed work to keep him busy already.


 
My brother is farming part time and in fariness he is always 100% honest

Id just be afraid the tenant would go mad and damage house or family

Doubt he would but who knows

He could always ring revenus on us

Im tax compliant this is my first move AND LAST into the dark side but revenue will always find something its their job

Thanks
Noel


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## onq (7 Oct 2011)

Hi Noel,

I would be very careful about comments that someone is working "while on the dole"
Knowing that someone is/ or as on Jobseekers is irrelevant to your landlord status.

Its up to him to declare any income to the social welfare inspector, not you.
People are allowed to sign off and earn income within certain limits.

In fact he "should" be trying to find work and come off welfare.
You playing your part in that is not doing something wrong.

You cannot know whether he has declared his income.
Therefore your comments should reflect this in future.

----------------------

However in relation to evicting your tenant, what's the charge?

You have reduced rent - temporarily - at his request, but you need the property to "wash its face".
I think you should consider raising the rent again and writing to him requesting he completes his work.

I don't think you have grounds to evict him, but you are under no obligation to keep giving him work.
If he cannot pay or chooses to drink his rent money that's his choice to make.

At that point you may take steps to evict him for non-payment of rent.
However the lack of a rental agreement hay affect his and your rights.

----------------------

In relation to him not completing a task, to what can you point?

You don't appear to have a written or signed contract and no plans or spec.
You freely paid him in advance and you seem to have had some work out of him.

You apparently proceeded to site on the basis of a verbal contract and estimate - did you not this?
There seems to be no estimate, start date, completion date or building programme to which you can hold him

Again, its after the fact, but i would write to him stating what you understood to be the contract and asking him to comment.
I would request his comment in writing and hold him to that as evidence of the contract and do not under any circumstance return receipts.

----------------------

I think you need to take legal advice before proceeding.
You may get better advice from others on AAM.


ONQ.


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## T McGibney (7 Oct 2011)

noel123ie said:


> Im tax compliant this is my first move AND LAST into the dark side but revenue will always find something its their job



If its any consolation, a large majority of Revenue Audits yield no additional tax liability for the taxpayer.  Also, although I have no idea how Revenue process vexatious-sounding reports from 'concerned citizens', I'm sure a lot of them end up in the bin.


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## noel123ie (7 Oct 2011)

onq said:


> Hi Noel,
> 
> I would be very careful about comments that someone is working "while on the dole"
> Knowing that someone is/ or as on Jobseekers is irrelevant to your landlord status.
> ...


 
Thanks very much sound advice

Was only repairs to houses so did not get contract as trusted him

In fairness 99.9% of builders are honest but there is always one and I seem to ahve been landed with him

noel


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## mandelbrot (7 Oct 2011)

T McGibney said:


> If its any consolation, a large majority of Revenue Audits yield no additional tax liability for the taxpayer. Also, although I have no idea how Revenue process vexatious-sounding reports from 'concerned citizens', I'm sure a lot of them end up in the bin.


 
It's not a large majority of Revenue Audits that yield no additional liability, but a substantial minority...

Agree with you about the spurious "good citizens" reports, if all appears above board with the person being reported I'm sure they'd get binned...


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## onq (7 Oct 2011)

noel123ie said:


> Thanks very much sound advice
> 
> Was only repairs to houses so did not get contract as trusted him
> 
> ...



You're very welcome Noel.

  Thanks for pointing out that there are many fine builders out there.
Let me say I'm not making comments on builders in general.
Calling that person a "builder" per se  might be an error.

Consider getting a builder to give you an estimate.
C2 registered, insured, no-nonsense type.
The other guy would see his difficulty.


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## Bronte (7 Oct 2011)

mandelbrot said:


> It's not a large majority of Revenue Audits that yield no additional liability, but a substantial minority...


 
Would you have a link to statistics on this?


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## Bronte (7 Oct 2011)

noel123ie said:


> In fairness 99.9% of builders are honest but there is always one and I seem to have been landed with him


 
You also over paid him 2K, your brother over paid him 4K and you've now recommended him to someone else to be stung. 

You cannot evict him with one weeks notice.  Are you registered with the PRTB.  

What makes you think he could damage property?

Did you go to the pub yesterday where he was to ask for some rent, seeing as he has money for non essentials he could have paid you some rent.


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## T McGibney (7 Oct 2011)

Bronte said:


> Would you have a link to statistics on this?



Its listed in each Revenue Annual Report. Sorry I don't have time today to look for specific links.


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## noel123ie (7 Oct 2011)

Bronte said:


> You also over paid him 2K, your brother over paid him 4K and you've now recommended him to someone else to be stung.
> 
> You cannot evict him with one weeks notice. Are you registered with the PRTB.
> 
> ...


 
Hi Bronte

yes registered with PRTB

I dont know that he could but who knows?

I would never approach someone in a pub with drink on them over a dispute

It would not be a good thing to do I think

Noel


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## mandelbrot (7 Oct 2011)

Bronte said:


> Would you have a link to statistics on this?


 
[broken link removed]

The report linked shows the proportion of cases not yielding any additional liability from Random Audits (68%), where the taxpayer is picked entirley at random.

I can only say anecdotally that in cases where the taxpayers are selected for audit using REAP, the proportion of nil-yielding audits decreases, which makes sense, otherwise what would be the point of doing targeted audits..!


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## Bronte (7 Oct 2011)

noel123ie said:


> I would never approach someone in a pub with drink on them over a dispute
> 
> It would not be a good thing to do I think


 
Agreed, next time catch him on the way into the pub  definitely pointless afterwards 

You're going to have to outsmart him if you want the work done and to evict him.


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## Luternau (7 Oct 2011)

Noel
In the first instance tell him the rent is going up to market rates with a rental agreement and deposit. This is you being fair to him. At this point he has a choice whether to stay or leave. 
I dont think renting to someone that is also working for you-formally or informally is a good idea. Best keep everything above board and at arms length.


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## Knuttell (8 Oct 2011)

noel123ie said:


> He also did work for my brother worth 8000-9000k ,4000 of this has not been done. *This is where I feel really bad as I recommended him*
> 
> 
> 2 Last week he asked me to recommend him to a guy that was looking at house with a view to giving him work. *I did this as I hoped it would help me get funds from tenant, *I can tell teneant Ill be calling him as I know where his business is based


 
You obviously didnt feel that bad about recommending him to the brother...
If you gave me a recommendation for a fella like that,I would be having a serious word in your ear about it.


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## noel123ie (14 Oct 2011)

*Update*

Hi all

Update on situation

I called to house last week to serve  28 day notice on guy

He was gone no televison clothes shoes etc gone

I left it a few days and then changed locks

Ive now reg ister posted offical notice of end of agreement  to his partners address stating I require him to move out as I intent to move in as advised by my solicitor

if for any reason he comes back to house Ill have to say-I changed locks as I could not contact him

Hope he doesnt come back as legally I would be obliged to let him in until 28 days notice are up and he already owes me  a months rent

Thanks for all the help to all
Noel


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## onq (14 Oct 2011)

Thanks for the update Noelie and well done for taking the legal advice.

Talking to your solicitor allowed you to take appropriate action and you know the options now.

ONQ.


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