# Bank tried to trick out of tracker - the bank are holding back 20 days interest??



## blueeyes79 (13 Sep 2013)

Hi,

I am hoping that somebody can help me. I have my morgage with Danske Bank (NIB) started the morgage in 2007, signed up for a LTV tracker with the first 5 years fixed. The fixed rate fell off in March 2013 and the bank automatically put us on a variable at a higher rate than the fixed was. We do not owe a lot and I fought with them to put us on our originaly tracker. After loads of fighting with them, requested under the data protection for our entire morgage file they have finally admitted that they should have changed us to our original tracker. 

My problem is they owe us a little refund and they are now saying the following - 

A- they won't give us back 20 days interest, only the interest from when I contacted them advising them I figured out they made a mistake? 

B - They are now requesting a recent evaluation of our property so that they will give us the worse rate as they know its a recession and our home is worth less than it was in 2007. My issue is if they didn't make the mistake to begin with wouldn't look for an evaluation at all, it would have just switched over?

Can someone tell me what I should do next as they are sending out documents which they want us to sign as they say they lost the originals. 

I do have copies of my morgage file but you would need to be a barrister to understand them.

Thank you for reading, I would really appreciate your help.

Blueeyes


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## Brendan Burgess (13 Sep 2013)

blueeyes79 said:


> B - They are now requesting a recent evaluation of our property so that they will give us the worse rate as they know its a recession and our home is worth less than it was in 2007.
> I do have copies of my morgage file but you would need to be a barrister to understand them.



Forget the 20 days interest for the moment. Focus on the real battle. 

What does your mortgage agreement say about the tracker rate? Is the rate you are entitled to dependent on the LTV? 

Read that and if you don't understand it, get someone else to read it for you.  If you like to reproduce  the exact wording of the tracker clause here. 

Brendan


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## blueeyes79 (14 Sep 2013)

Hi,

yes the interest rate is based on our LTV. At the time of signing the morgage the LTV was 67.83%. Meaning we should get .55%. 

On the clause is says - 

2. your LTV for your home loan as at the date hereof is 67.83%. Your weighing difference is 0.55%. If you have switched from an ECB tracker with us to ECB tracker LTV morgage your weighing difference replaces the margin over your reference rate specified in your Housing loan agreement. 


I think we'll be getting a rate of 1.40% if our situation remains the same i.e. if we can't get an evaluation saying we don't owe more then 80% of our current home loan. 

In the terms I know they can request an evaluation at any time but I think if they never made the mistake we would simply get the 67.83% LTV so our interest would be 0.55%?


Thank you for replying, do you know what I should do next? or where in the paperwork I should look. It was an oversight that they gave me the T&C conditions because on the front of that paperwork they had a letter outlining how knowwhere on the paperwork mentions LTV as they wanted us to stay on the Variable?

Thanks.

Blueeyes


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## mercman (14 Sep 2013)

blueeyes79 said:


> It was an oversight that they gave me the T&C conditions because on the front of that paperwork they had a letter outlining how knowwhere on the paperwork mentions LTV as they wanted us to stay on the Variable? Blueeyes



I have just briefly read your posts, however, you are legally entitled to the Terms & Conditions.

Many people tend to forget their entitlements


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## Brendan Burgess (14 Sep 2013)

You are going to have to get a solicitor or debt advisor to read the contract in full for you. 

There should be something which says you are fixed for 5 years and what happens after that.

Brendan


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## blueeyes79 (15 Sep 2013)

Hi Brendan,

Thanks for your reply. I have gone through the entire document and found the following - 

Rate of interest: 4.63% per annum.
5.34% per annum, variable.

Fixed rate: roll over date - 1 March 2013. The roll over date is the start date of the standard variable interest rate at that time. The fixed rate period expires on the date proceeding this day. 

and then at the end in the T&C - 

clause 11.4 

Unless a further Fixed rate period is agreed in accordance with clause 11.3, at the end of the fixed period the rate of interest applicable to the loan will revert to our then applicable variable home loan rate. 

12.2 if the loan is an ECB Tracker Rate Variable Home loan then the interest rate is linked to the ECB refinance rate. The rate of interest specified in the schedule is the rate on that date and an agreed margin ("the ECB rate margin") The ECB refinance rate is subject to variation, and the rate of interest applicable to the loan shall be the ECB rate margin added to the ECB Refinance Rate from time to time, and shall vary accordingly.

I have an e-mail from an employee in Danske confirming we will be back dated to March, do you think this is enough for them to legally back date it? 

Thanks,
Blueeyes


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## corkgirl1 (15 Sep 2013)

blueeyes79 said:


> Can someone tell me what I should do next as they are sending out documents which they want us to sign as they say they lost the originals.




This bit jumped out at me - I wouldn't be signing anything without legal advice - maybe they haven't lost the originals at all and want you to agree to different terms?


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## Luternau (15 Sep 2013)

Your biggest comcer is not the date of roll over from fixed to tracker or the 20 days, but the LTV term.

You need to get good advice before signing anything. Unfortunately, you can't do much about what the current value of the property is if they come looking. It's best to drop the 20 days interest issue, not contact the bank and hope they don't follow through with the new documents to sign. Otherwise if you push on the rollover date, you are in danger of winning a battle and losing far more in the process.


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## blueeyes79 (16 Sep 2013)

Hi,


Thanks for your replies. They are saying they cannot switch the morgage back until documents are signed. I will possibly get someone to look over them before signing them. I to think they have not lost our documents. 

I will keep you posted and hopefully it will be sorted now. I have it in writing from the bank that I am entitled to the tracker and that they will backdate me to March.

I also have the notes because I requested all via Data protection saying I am entitled to it. 

Thanks,
Blueeyes.


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## Bronte (17 Sep 2013)

Two points, you may get them to treat you more nicely if they really messed up originally and they don't have proper original mortgage documents. 

In relation to the valuation, they are being really sneaky here and you can be sure they are doing it to avoid giving you the best tracker.  Solution, a nice friendly auctioneer who will give you the valuation you need.  Others will disagree with me on this, but your bank has been less than honest in it's dealings with you.


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## mercman (17 Sep 2013)

Bronte said:


> you may get them to treat you more nicely if they really messed up originally and they don't have proper original mortgage documents.



Without my being rude but are you living in reality ?? No Bank will treat any customer with any respect. The story in this case beggars belief. 

These are one of the Banks that entered Ireland through the back door and offered Financial Products they knew nothing about but tried to bluff the Irish Nation they knew what they were doing.

If we had a proper regulatory system and Government these Banks would be shown the door, and their licences would be revoked. 

But this is Ireland.


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## Bronte (17 Sep 2013)

mercman said:


> Without my being rude but are you living in reality ?? No Bank will treat any customer with any respect. The story in this case beggars belief.
> 
> 
> If we had a proper regulatory system and Government these Banks would be shown the door, and their licences would be revoked.
> ...


 
Actually Mercman the story doesn't begger belief, but you know as well as I that we have very little options and even Burgess has now basically agreed that going down the Ombudsman route only give you a one on 10 chance of sucess no matter how badly the bank has treated you. 

So if playing by the system won't get you anywhere, than maybe there are ways around it, that's all I'm suggesting. 

For example, years ago I was moving bank and I need a certain valuation so I made it my business to meet the valuer and tell him how much I needed so he'd put the correct amount on the valuation.

We know that certain banks have not got all the proper documentation, if that's the case here the OP can maybe use this as leverage on the tracker rate, as in, 'I'll sign anything you want as long as my interest rate is not subject to valuation'.  Is that too crazy?


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## blueeyes79 (17 Sep 2013)

Hi,

Thanks again for your replies. I am trying to go around them, I think I found a nice down to earth female Auctioneer, one who recently valued a smaller house in a not so nice estate in our village for more than what I am looking for. 

The guy in the bank who is now dealing with it strongly recommended that I get an evaluation and he seems to be helpful (but I know he will do obviously what he needs to to make the most money) 

There is another house in my estate valued at what I need mine to be and in my opinion its of the same standard so I rang that auctioneer and he called around he was acting very shady and said he couldn't value it at the same as they are being closely watched by regulators . 

I will read everything closely and If I don;t understand it I will get a solicitor to have a look over it, I also got a reply from the ombudsman so they gave me the complaint forms, If this doesn't work out or they try to pull something I will lodge the complaint. 


Thanks again.

Blueeyes


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## Bronte (17 Sep 2013)

Blueeyes, please either delete the figures or use false ones so that you cannot be identified by your bank.


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## twofor1 (17 Sep 2013)

blueeyes79 said:


> Hi,
> 
> I need an evaluation of €xxxxxx to get the best rate, we owe €xxxxxx.


 
Based on the figures provided your LTV is less than 80% so should qualify for ECB +.8%

LTV less than 60% would qualify for ECB +.6%

LTV less than 50% would qualify for ECB + .5%.

Based on the figures provided, you are nowhere near getting into either of the lower brackets. 

But even the top tracker rate of ECB + .8% is far lower than standard variable and will save you tens of thousands over the life of your mortgage.


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## Bronte (23 Sep 2013)

blueeyes79 said:


> Thanks for your replies. They are saying they cannot switch the morgage back until documents are signed. I will possibly get someone to look over them before signing them. I to think they have not lost our documents.
> 
> .


 
This copy from an article might of interest to you:

_MABS may be able to help if you need legal advice. Not all the bank paperwork is up to scratch and they may get you to sign something that plugs the holes. So find out what you are letting yourself in for_

It's the fifth from bottom paragraph here http://www.independent.ie/opinion/a...ng-more-than-an-overpaid-quango-29596617.html


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## blueeyes79 (7 Oct 2013)

Hi,

Thanks so much for all your replies. Unfortunately it does look like the bank are trying to pull a fast one, received figures and paperwork. The figures seem attractive i.e. the repayment is lower and will be for the remainder of the term but unfortunately when I read the paperwork they are trying to get us to sign new paperwork which is a brand new restructured documents as if we are re-mortgaging. There is even a letter outlinging a conversation that we never had, in the paperwork it stays last drawdown Jan 2013? we never drew down and the last and only time was when we signed the original paperwork. 

I'll contact Mabs and also as of tomorrow I'm refusing to sign any paperwork, I also have the complaint forms from the ombudsman so I'll fill them in and send them off. 

I really thought this would be sorted and we could move on from this.

Dodgy banks... its a disgrace what they get away with!! 

I'll keep yee posted.

Blueeyes


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