# to leave public service or not?



## novice999 (25 Sep 2007)

hi all 

I would like some objective advice I have been in my current role for ten years now with the security of the public service I have a salary of 60,000 per year with 30 days annual leave.

I have recieved a offer to return to the private sector for 15,000 euro less but I feel a company car represents a saving of 8,000 per year so perhaps in real terms the reduction is only 7,000.

I am basically completely disillusioned with my current role and would welcome a return to a fast moving environment with responsibility, autonomy and accountability I am 36 years of age and have ten years work experience outside the public service.

Am I foolish to trade a role I know well can do well but find mind numbingly boring for a position with some what less security, pay holidays etc but would be intellectually stimulated, and  challenged once again I would appreciate your views

regards


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## Ret45 (25 Sep 2007)

*Re: to leave public service or not???*

one of the perks of the public service is being able to take a career break of up to five years. Technically you can't take a career break to take up another job but I'm not sure how tightly monitored this rule is. Might be worth a try. In general i think you are better off taking a risk rather than wondering at retirement why you didn't get out while you could...


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## michaelm (25 Sep 2007)

*Re: to leave public service or not???*

If I were you I wouldn't dream of leaving the Public Service for less money, particularly with the economy looking suspect.  If I was bored like you and had more money than I needed I'd look to take 3 to 6 months off at my own expense and beyond that look for some transfer or secondment within the Public Service.  My (simplistic) view is that if someone is 'hungry' they should be working for themselves and if they're not 'hungry' they should be in the Public Service.  I'd be nervous if I were a private sector employee right now.


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## z109 (25 Sep 2007)

*Re: to leave public service or not???*

How can a company car be worth 8,000 a year? (with BIK and all).

Don't come down from the tower. It's hell down here.

responsibility = how much do you want
autonomy = there is none, you'll be told what to do by an 'expert'
accountability = easy one this, it's always your fault


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## z109 (25 Sep 2007)

*Re: to leave public service or not???*

PS. go four days a week instead and live your life for the three days off - only 12,000 lower (less the tax element 48% is it?).


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## bradfield (25 Sep 2007)

*Re: to leave public service or not???*

Hey!

I have great empathy with you as I am in practically the same situation! I feel my brain dying in my head on a daily basis and struggle with staying or going constantly. I would like to take a career break but you cannot work in Ireland if you do that and I dont really want to go abroad at this time so I am trying to find some way in which to find a happy medium so I will watch this thread with great interest to see what suggestions come up here!

I know how hard it is so best of luck with your decision!

B


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## dereko1969 (25 Sep 2007)

*Re: to leave public service or not???*

you can work in ireland if you work for yourself so could you work on a contract basis for your prospective new 'employer'? 
as others have said i'm not sure how closely if at all the rule about working as an employee in ireland is monitored. i know personally of a number of civil servants who went on career break in ireland as employees and were able to come back into the service.


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## greenfield (25 Sep 2007)

*Re: to leave public service or not???*

All I can share with you is my own experience - I worked (many, many moons ago pre celtic tiger) in a semi state company, permanent, pensionable etc.   I decided to leave to pursue work that I wanted to do which was not available to me within the semi state - at the time people really were ready to call the men in white coats as they thought I was MAD to leave.   I have never for one second regretted it - sure the private sector is less secure etc but I can still see those disillusioned people serving their time waiting for their pensions - life is too short!


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## buzybee (25 Sep 2007)

*Re: to leave public service or not???*

Money isn't everything.  Of course you need a certain amount to survive, but if you have your mortgage under control, why not take a career break.

Otherwise you will feel stifled in the public service and will regret it in years to come.  I know you could apply for promotions in the public service but it can take a while & there is no guarantee of getting these.

If I were you I would take a career break off of a year 'to go travelling if you are single',  to 'spend more time with your family' if you have them.  Then, slowly, after a few months, you could get into the private sector & try it out for a while.  You can extend your career break for up to 5 years.

I think you will find the private sector has interesting projects & work etc, but you don't get particularly well paid, when you factor all the long hours of work and effort into account. However, it is very rewarding in that you will develop your skills.

Personally, I would not waste a career break on 'trying out the private sector'.  If I had a govt. job, I would only take a career break to 'go travelling & research business ideas' or to set up my own business.

Good Luck


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## Towger (25 Sep 2007)

*Re: to leave public service or not???*



novice999 said:


> I have a salary of 60,000 per year with 30 days annual leave.
> I feel a company car represents a saving of 8,000 per year so perhaps in real terms the reduction is only 7,000.



With BIK it is only worth getting a company car if you are doing high mileage. Also don't for get you Pension, it is estimated that for a private sector worker to get the same pension as public worker they will have to contribute 30% of their salary from when they start work. So in reality unless the company you are going to has a very good pension scheme you 60,000 is worth 78,000.


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## slave1 (25 Sep 2007)

*Re: to leave public service or not???*

"don't for get you Pension, it is estimated that for a private sector worker to get the same pension as public worker they will have to contribute 30% of their salary from when they start work."
not doubting this but could you expand, perhaps a numerical example


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## Perplexed (25 Sep 2007)

*Re: to leave public service or not???*

Can't you do something outside of work to stimulate your brain ?
Do like others advise & take a career break. 
I would love a non-pressurised job ! I work hard for less pay,less hols & less pension. Also like others say the private section is looking a lot more shaky...depending on your area of expertise of course.


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## RainyDay (25 Sep 2007)

*Re: to leave public service or not???*

What are your priorities in life - money? time? security? What is your overall financial position - mortgage? savings? If you are in a relationship, is your partner's employment secure?


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## glenamaddy (25 Sep 2007)

*Re: to leave public service or not???*



novice999 said:


> hi all
> 
> I would like some objective advice I have been in my current role for ten years now with the security of the public service I have a salary of 60,000 per year with 30 days annual leave.
> 
> ...


 
Get real, you are in a fantastic position, get a good hobby and travel as much as you can, while you can.


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## Towger (26 Sep 2007)

*Re: to leave public service or not???*



			
				slave1;493754
not doubting this but could you expand said:
			
		

> A couple of seconds with Google came up with this example: [broken link removed]


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## novice999 (26 Sep 2007)

*Re: to leave public service or not???*

Hi all,

thank you all for taking the time to respond to my dilema it is much appreciated, perhaps I should have been more specific I am employed in the health service a career break is not a option I know offically you can apply but it has been many years since such leave has been granted under any of the three options maybe I am mad maybe I have had it too easy for too long I work shift work so it is very difficult to give my time to a hobby with any proper commitment I will get back in touch when I have decided what to do thanks again for all the contributions


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## peter11 (26 Sep 2007)

*Re: to leave public service or not???*

I spent 14 years in the private sector in managerial positions.  I gave it all up for the public service.  I am 13 years in public service and have never looked back.  You are guaranteed cheque every one or two week, annual leave, a bit of sick.  You are accountable to a point and it is difficult to fire you.  Grat and pension at the end.  Enjoy


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## solidrockman (2 Oct 2007)

*Re: to leave public service or not???*

I worked in the public service for 11 years after leaving school and it's a place like no other. Maybe it's changed since but in my time there were many disillusioned people there. It's easy for those who don't know what it's like to recommend staying, but it takes a certain mind set to be able to come in day after day knowing that for years stretching ahead you'll be coming to to the same desk, doing the same job. And there are far too many public jobs just like that. 

Sure the pension is good - but the real cost of that for a lot of people is a working life of mind-numbing tedium. I got to the point where I couldn't stand being classified by a grade rather than my own skills and abilities, so I did evening courses in IT and left. I've not regretted it so far...


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## Purple (2 Oct 2007)

*Re: to leave public service or not???*

As Rainyday pointed out this question can only be answered if you provide more context. The grass is always greener and all that but from the perspective of most people in the private sector you are in a very good position financially so unless you hate the job and think you can do well in the new job then on the face of it I'd stay.
I don't know if you have children but I'd love to be able to take 30 days off a year (even 20 would be good!) to spend with them. Working less than 50 hours a week would also be nice. So would total job security.


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## aircobra19 (2 Oct 2007)

*Re: to leave public service or not???*

I would have thought that most people in the private sector work less than 50hrs a week and have approx days holidays.


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## z103 (2 Oct 2007)

*Re: to leave public service or not???*



> I would have thought that most people in the private sector work less than 50hrs a week and have approx days holidays.



People starting up their own companies will easily clock up 50+ hours a week, I know I do. No guarantee of pay, never mind sick leave and pensions etc! I've taken 10 days off this year, and I work public/bank holidays. I'll be also working through Christmas.

I also know people on a salary in the private sector that will work crazy hours, especially in company busy times.

However, there's no way I'd want a job in the public sector. I'd rather stick with the beans on toast.


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## Purple (3 Oct 2007)

*Re: to leave public service or not???*



aircobra19 said:


> I would have thought that most people in the private sector work less than 50hrs a week and have approx days holidays.


No one I know in a small to sized medium business that gets more than 20 days off a year. Most of them don’t get sick pay either. None of them can take career breaks and most of them work more than 50 hours a week. 
I do an average of 52 hours at the moment which is the shortest my working week has been in 17 years. I have had 9 sick days in those 17 years.
I’m not trying to play the martyr, I like what I do and have a very good income. I also understand how difficult it must be to do a job that in boring and/or unrewarding and feel that you have no control over what you do.


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## aircobra19 (3 Oct 2007)

*Re: to leave public service or not???*

If you not trying to be a marytr why all the non relevent info? Congratulations on being so heathly btw. Most of the people I know who work long hours often unpaid are IT related. Everyone else I know who works long hours gets paid for them, as its usually overtime or shift work. So as a for instance, a quick seach on IT jobs in Dublin on the FAS site shows the weekly hours. While obvously you have to take some estimates with a pinch of salt at least it nots [SIZE=-1]anecdotal. [/SIZE]

http://jobbank.fas.ie/servlet/Watis...BACK=TEMPLATE=WWW_JS_VAC_CRITERIUM_SELECT.HTM
http://jobbank.fas.ie/servlet/Watis...BACK=TEMPLATE=WWW_JS_VAC_CRITERIUM_SELECT.HTM


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## MichaelDes (3 Oct 2007)

*Re: to leave public service or not???*

_"I am basically completely disillusioned with my current role and would welcome a return to a fast moving environment with responsibility"_

Far away hills are always greener?


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## FredBloggs (3 Oct 2007)

*Re: to leave public service or not???*

I have worked in both public and private sectors. First private then public. When I was in public sector the hours were a lot shorter and the holidays longer than what I was used to but I found it incredibly tedious. I was on contracts and when an opportunity came up to become permanaent I turned it down and went back to private - much longer hours, much shorter holidays but rewarding. However as my responsibilities have grown - mortgage, children etc - I find myself at times yearning for the public sector. If a job came up there in the morning I would seriously consider it. The stability and the extra time to spend with my family would be very attractive.

We all think about changing our lot from time to time but you need to weigh up all you have against what you'll be gaining. From my time in the public sector I know that a lot of my former colleagues looked at the public sector with rose tinted glasses. They never seemed to take into account job seucrity or pension.

One guy was so enraptured by the thought of the business lunch which for some reason he seemed to think all people in the private sector enjoyed that he resigned from the public sector without a job lined up, eventually got a succession of low paying jobs and finally went back to the public sector utterly dissilusioned.


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## buzybee (3 Oct 2007)

*Re: to leave public service or not???*

Posted by Aircobra:
If you not trying to be a marytr why all the non relevent info? Congratulations on being so heathly btw. Most of the people I know who work long hours often unpaid are IT related. Everyone else I know who works long hours gets paid for them, as its usually overtime or shift work. So as a for instance, a quick seach on IT jobs in Dublin on the FAS site shows the weekly hours. While obvously you have to take some estimates with a pinch of salt at least it nots [SIZE=-1]anecdotal.[/SIZE]

Aircobra,

A lot of the companies outside Dublin only give 20 days a year hols & do not pay sick leave & have long hours, even if the employees are relatively senior.  You seem to think that most people get paid more if they do over the 39 hrs.

Me:  I have been working in accounts for the last no. of years in the private sector.  20 days hols p.a.  No sick leave.  I earn 30K p.a.  I have a certain amount of work to get done.  It is impossible (and I know this from former employees) to fit this into the 39 hrs a week.  I work 45 hrs a week, and even then I don't really get the work completed.

I know people say the public sector is draining etc etc,  However, I find in the private sector, that it is hard enough to have a life outside of work.  I feel that you have to work so fast to get the work completed, that you are tired at the weekend & can't do anything nice.

I am trying to get a clerical officer job in the public sector for the past year.  I know it will initially be a pay cut to 23K, but the hourly rate works out the same as what I am getting now.

Also, I have been out sick & got no pay.  It is no joke when you are out sick & trying to use savings to cover a mortgage & household expenses.  I think the private sector is all right when you are in the full of your health, but if anything bad happens it would be easy to lose one's home!!


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## aircobra19 (3 Oct 2007)

*Re: to leave public service or not???*



buzybee said:


> ...A lot of the companies outside Dublin only give 20 days a year hols & do not pay sick leave & have long hours, even if the employees are relatively senior.  You seem to think that most people get paid more if they do over the 39 hrs....



If you look at the links I posted earlier one is the Dublin region the other is the the North West of the country. So I don't think its trait limited to "Dublin" or any other location. Its does seem to be more typical in certain types of company or industry sector. 

I said "Everyone else I know". I didn't make the generalisation of "most people". Probably everyone has worked unpaid hours at some point. You don't do it unless you think you can get something out of it. If you do get some reward, you keep doing it. If you don't, you eventually realise its bad practise to work for free, and will do your utmost to avoid doing it. 

From my own experience, I've moved jobs to get away from having to do unpaid and extra hours. When you have commitments outside of work you simply can't do them. So its unfair if people are put under pressure to do them. The majority of the time (in my experience) extra hours/unpaid work  are a crutch for bad managment, and can be avoided through proper planning. No one minds helping out in a crunch. But if it becomes normalised to work like that, its a bigger problem and points to other issues.


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## Suse (3 Oct 2007)

*Re: to leave public service or not???*

*Busybee *- "I am trying to get a clerical officer job in the public sector for the past year. I know it will initially be a pay cut to 23K, but the hourly rate works out the same as what I am getting now."

*Can i just ask you why you think that you would initially be paid 23K as a clerical officer?


*


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## z109 (3 Oct 2007)

*Re: to leave public service or not???*



aircobra19 said:


> The majority of the time (in my experience) extra hours/unpaid work  are a crutch for bad managment, and can be avoided through proper planning. No one minds helping out in a crunch. But if it becomes normalised to work like that, its a bigger problem and points to other issues.



I agree with you, but poor management is the norm whether in the private sector or the public. In the public sector it seems to be characterised by inertia and incompetence; in the private by frantic activity and incompetence. It's not realistic to move from one to the other in the hope of something better.

(Sorry to any managers out there - you must do better).


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## aircobra19 (3 Oct 2007)

*Re: to leave public service or not???*



yoganmahew said:


> I agree with you, but poor management is the norm whether in the private sector or the public. In the public sector it seems to be characterised by inertia and incompetence; in the private by frantic activity and incompetence. It's not realistic to move from one to the other in the hope of something better.
> 
> (Sorry to any managers out there - you must do better).



I think if you had a bad/good manager it makes all the difference. Regardless if your in the private or public sector.


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## buzybee (3 Oct 2007)

*Re: to leave public service or not???*

aircobra19

I have moved around doing contract work for the past few years precisely because I am trying to escape the long hours.  I think it is not bad mgt in the private sector.  I think mgt are trying to get away with having less staff at work & everyone is killed out.  Then if you can't keep up with the work they let you go, and get someone else in, who can work faster.  

You said people do not work long hours unless they are getting something out of it.  In my experience, people work long hours if they want to keep their jobs.  I have seen it that people are 'let go' from work if they are not able to get through lots of work.  It is very difficult to get lots of work done in the 39 hrs a week, hence the long hours.

Suse, 

Most Clerical Officer jobs start people on 23K even if they have years of experience.  Sometimes you could apply to HR & ask for a higher salary based on your experience.  However, they will still only start you on the 2nd or 3 rd point of the scale, so you will only get 1k extra.  However, if you stay there for 10 yrs, you will get up to about 35K p.a.   Not bad for a 35 hr week.


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## aircobra19 (3 Oct 2007)

*Re: to leave public service or not???*

If you have constant staff turnover and people are working long hours as a matter of routine there IS a problem. Especailly if the work isn't getting done. Its up to management to sort it out. Manage the process. They don't because getting people to work more hours for less seem like a way to spend less. But in the long run its bad practise and leads to other problems.


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## Purple (3 Oct 2007)

*Re: to leave public service or not???*

But long hours where staff is getting paid for it, there is a low staff turnover and the work is being done may well be good practise. It may be the factor that allows the business to survive and thrive.
I know it’s a cliché but for a business your employees are your biggest asset so treating them badly, or to but it another way; getting a bad return on your investment in them, is bad business. If people are treated well and paid for what they do, and allowances are made when they are going through a bad patch in their personal lives, then they are much more likely to be loyal and hard working.


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## aircobra19 (3 Oct 2007)

*Re: to leave public service or not???*

You can't burn a candle at both ends and expect it to last. 

If you're that candle, take stock. 

Most employers/managers are happy to take a few hours/days from staff. But its a rare one that lets you have the same time back when you need it.


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## Purple (3 Oct 2007)

*Re: to leave public service or not???*



aircobra19 said:


> You can't burn a candle at both ends and expect it to last.


 Working a 10 hour day is hardly "burning the candle at both ends"!
Very few people I know only work 39 hours a week, be they public or private sector. Try being a junior doctor working every third night on call (in other words working through the night or 36 hours without rest) for years at a time. To be honest I think I have it handy.



aircobra19 said:


> Most employers/managers are happy to take a few hours/days from staff. But its a rare one that lets you have the same time back when you need it.


 What do you base that sweeping statement on?


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## RainyDay (3 Oct 2007)

*Re: to leave public service or not???*



Purple said:


> I also understand how difficult it must be to do a job that in boring and/or unrewarding and feel that you have no control over what you do.


Just for the record, not all public sector jobs fit this description.


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## Purple (3 Oct 2007)

*Re: to leave public service or not???*



RainyDay said:


> Just for the record, not all public sector jobs fit this description.


 I'm sure they don't! Indeed, I'm sure there are just as many in the private sector.


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## Summer (5 Oct 2007)

*Re: to leave public service or not???*

In my experience where there is a union, the working time act is usually respected. No one should be working more than 48 hours in a week.


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## triplex (5 Oct 2007)

*Re: to leave public service or not???*

two options: move department - the culture/work is different in every dept - my dept is great..

also, do you KNOW how lucky you are to be able to take two 5 year career breaks and walk straight back into the same level of pay? 

big world out there!


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## aircobra19 (5 Oct 2007)

*Re: to leave public service or not???*



Purple said:


> Working a 10 hour day is hardly "burning the candle at both ends"!



Why a 10hr day. Why not 15 or 20? I was talking in general about working beyond normal hours as routine. In some jobs, projects I've worked on working through the night is pretty common to meet deadlines. 



Purple said:


> Very few people I know only work 39 hours a week, be they public or private sector. Try being a junior doctor working every third night on call (in other words working through the night or 36 hours without rest) for years at a time. To be honest I think I have it handy.



Well you see the working hours advertised for jobs on the FAS site. They can't all be fiction. Doctors are a very specific case. I don't think its right myself. The potential for error is too great, and they may kill someone. On the flip side for the doctor they'll reap the rewards later in their career. 

Obviously some people are being well paid for their overtime.
http://www.finfacts.com/irelandbusinessnews/publish/article_10007451.shtml



Purple said:


> What do you base that sweeping statement on?



Many, many years of hard learnt experience.


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## RainyDay (5 Oct 2007)

*Re: to leave public service or not???*



aircobra19 said:


> Obviously some people are being well paid for their overtime.
> http://www.finfacts.com/irelandbusinessnews/publish/article_10007451.shtml


I'm confused. The Finfacts article refers to an Irish Examiner article, presumably [broken link removed]. The Finfacts article claims;


> In public agencies, the Health Service Executive paid €585.6m in overtime with the top recipient getting €150,000 on top of a regular salary and generous pension - 5 times the average industrial wage



but I can't find any reference in the Examiner atricle to HSE.

And then the Examiner article starts out "According to the Comptroller & Auditor General’s annual report for 2006", but when I check the C&AG 2006 report, the only references to overtime I can find are about Prison Officers - no sign of the HSE 150k person, and no sign of the Civil Servants who picked up 50k overtime. Am I missing something here?


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## aircobra19 (5 Oct 2007)

*Re: to leave public service or not???*

No idea you could email them if you want clarification. These stories of overtime in the public sector were widely reported in the general media (however badly) about a month or two ago. I remember that, searched for it and this was the first link that came back. I didn't [SIZE=-1]scrutinize [/SIZE]it. My point was that some people get paid overtime even if a lot don't. It wasn't meant to single out the public sector as unique in being paid overtime. Indeed theres a overtime ban in some areas of the Public sector.


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## Purple (6 Oct 2007)

*Re: to leave public service or not???*



aircobra19 said:


> Why a 10hr day. Why not 15 or 20? I was talking in general about working beyond normal hours as routine. In some jobs, projects I've worked on working through the night is pretty common to meet deadlines.


Indeed, I don’t want to be accused of playing the martyr again but I have also put in 24 and 36 hour days. That is dangerous but in my opinion, based on doing it ever week for nearly 20 years, I don’t think that working 7.30 to 6.30 in a job that is not physically demanding is a particularly long day or in any way dangerous.  Working 20 hours a day on the other hand would be dangerous. I thought that was obvious. 



aircobra19 said:


> Well you see the working hours advertised for jobs on the FAS site. They can't all be fiction. Doctors are a very specific case. I don't think its right myself. The potential for error is too great, and they may kill someone. On the flip side for the doctor they'll reap the rewards later in their career.


 So no one works longer hours than those advertised on the FÁS site? I agree that NCHD’s working through the night o a regular basis is dangerous but that’s not the same as a bit of over time. Sorry, I have no time for anyone who ****es and moans about having to do a bit of overtime. I do think that they should get paid for it though.



aircobra19 said:


> Many, many years of hard learnt experience.


So you should have prefaced your comment with “In my experience” then? Why didn’t you just say that if overtime was becoming the rule rather than the exception you expected to be paid for it?

By the way, if a civil servant worked their ass off and got loads of overtime then fair play to them. Do you think that they should be doing it for nothing?


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## aircobra19 (6 Oct 2007)

*Re: to leave public service or not???*

My point is simple. Theres a standard working day for a reason. You can choose to ignore it if you want to. Most of the time "in my experience" theres not a good reason to ignore it. 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eight_hour_day

[SIZE=-1]Back to the original question. Grass is always greener on the other side. But you may never realise this till you experience it for yourself. In fact it may or may not be true for you, since everyone is different. But you won't know till you try. But look before you leap. 
 [/SIZE]


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## cork (8 Oct 2007)

Can you take a sabatical or go on secumbment?


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## Purple (8 Oct 2007)

*Re: to leave public service or not???*



aircobra19 said:


> Most of the time "in my experience" theres not a good reason to ignore it.  [/SIZE]


 An opinion you are perfectly entitled to. In my experience most small businesses that I know would not survive if the key people shared your view.


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## buzybee (8 Oct 2007)

*Re: to leave public service or not???*



Purple said:


> Sorry, I have no time for anyone who ****es and moans about having to do a bit of overtime. I do think that they should get paid for it though.
> By the way, if a civil servant worked their ass off and got loads of overtime then fair play to them. Do you think that they should be doing it for nothing?


  YES

Purple,I have worked in the private sector for years.  I regularly do 45 to 50 hrs a week and I don't get paid extra for it. Why should the public sector get paid for overtime when I don't get paid for it???  Also a lot of the public sector employees are on fine fat salaries of 40K plus, so at that rate, they should be expected to do a bit of free overtime.  I only started earning 30K very recently & do extra hours for free.

No wonder the public sector are always short of money, when people won't do a tap over & above their 33 hr week, without getting paid for it.  If everyone in the private sector had that attitude, the country would close down.


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## aircobra19 (8 Oct 2007)

Why? because you are only worth on what you can negotiate , and what the market is prepared to pay. That applies to both private and public sector. If you don't like the sector you are in, move to the other one.


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## z103 (8 Oct 2007)

> Why? because you are only worth on what you can negotiate , and what the market is prepared to pay. That applies to both private and public sector.



I don't for a minute think that this even remotely applies to the public sector. In my experience.


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## cole (8 Oct 2007)

*Re: to leave public service or not???*



buzybee said:


> No wonder the public sector are always short of money, when people won't do a tap over & above their 33 hr week, without getting paid for it.
> If everyone in the private sector had that attitude, the country would close down.


 
Not everyone in the public sector has this attitude... and not everyone in the private sector is a workaholic.


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## z103 (8 Oct 2007)

> Not everyone in the public sector has this attitude... and not everyone in the private sector is a workaholic.


I would suggest that the Public Sector attracts a certain calibre of individual.


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## cole (8 Oct 2007)

leghorn said:


> I would suggest that the Public Sector attracts a certain calibre of individual.


 
Would you like to elaborate?


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## RainyDay (8 Oct 2007)

leghorn said:


> I would suggest that the Public Sector attracts a certain calibre of individual.



I would suggest that you are living in the past.


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## ClubMan (11 Oct 2007)

cork said:


> Can you take a sabatical or go on secumbment?


Go on what!?


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## colc1 (11 Oct 2007)

I assume secondment is what cork means


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