# Tenant running holistic therapy business without permission



## Mowelb (11 Dec 2021)

When tenant moved in 2 years ago we tried to get landlord insured which would cover her to carry out her holistic therapy  business from the property. We could not get any. She agreed to find outside premises and would only use our house for occas pamper evening for her friends (non commercial). The tenancy contract forbids any business to be carried out.  We have now discovered on Facebook that she intends to use our house and is advertising a full range of therapy treatments, taking bookings and issuing vouchers. What is our best course of action.


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## Thirsty (11 Dec 2021)

Issue a termination notice.


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## Sconeandjam (11 Dec 2021)

This would worry me if I was the landlord. You may not like what you hear.

Personally I would not allow a tenant to carry out any commercial business from a house. If I found out I would give a notice to stop or the lease would be broken. See what you have written in your contract and if there is a line saying no commercial business allowed. Take a screenshot of the advertisement and date and time it.
From your post above you knew they had a holistic business before they moved in. If you want to keep the tenant then write a letter to the tenant that they need to rent a premises away from the house and not run a business from a residential property. They can rent a place in a salon. If they continue then give notice.

This is a big risk to you if here is a fire or damage. You knew they had a business and they could possibly be using your property.
Your landlord insurance might be void. You may have called the insurers and disclosed this. If the tenant has a fire and the insurers find out that a business was run from the house they may not pay out. The tenant would move on and then you have to find the money to repair it.

The neighbours might complain to your or the Council if her business takes off. You need to apply for change of use to commercial premises and all that includes water rates, land rates etc. There is a cost involved and more than likely the neighbours may refuse. 

Do you know if they have insurance? If someone walks in the house and trips while visiting the tenants business they may sue the person but they will definitely will try you if the person does not have insurance. Big headache for you not your tenant.


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## cremeegg (11 Dec 2021)

Thirsty said:


> Issue a termination notice.


+1

I think that the tenant has acted in bad faith here, you need to get rid of them.


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## Mowelb (11 Dec 2021)

Sconeandjam said:


> This would worry me if I was the landlord. You may not like what you hear.
> 
> Personally I would not allow a tenant to carry out any commercial business from a house. If I found out I would give a notice to stop or the lease would be broken. See what you have written in your contract and if there is a line saying no commercial business allowed. Take a screenshot of the advertisement and date and time it.
> From your post above you knew they had a holistic business before they moved in. If you want to keep the tenant then write a letter to the tenant that they need to rent a premises away from the house and not run a business from a residential property. They can rent a please in a salon. If they continue then give notice.
> ...


Thank you very much for your helpful reply. I have been reading the RTB site and it appears to give the tenant all the rights and landlord very few. would this come under ruling of “ tenants responsibilities “


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## murphaph1 (11 Dec 2021)

The tenant is in clear breach of the lease by the sounds of it. I had the misfortune of a tenant running a food delivery business out of my house. Kitchen destroyed. Don't wait for something to go wrong if you know up front. Issue a termination notice.


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## odyssey06 (11 Dec 2021)

Take screenshots \ print outs etc of the Facebook page now in case it disppears when you challenge them about it.


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## NoRegretsCoyote (12 Dec 2021)

@Mowelb 

The tenant is in clear breach of the Residental Tenancies Act 2004 (as amended). Section 16 says:



> *16.*—In addition to the obligations arising by or under any other enactment, a tenant of a dwelling shall—
> 
> ( _m_) *not use the dwelling or cause it to be used for any purpose other than as a dwelling without the written consent of the landlord *(which consent the landlord may, in his or her discretion, withhold),



Section 34 of the Act then allows you to issue a notice of termination after written notice has been issued to the tenant:



> 1. The tenant has failed to comply with any of his or her obligations F85 [ (other than the obligation to which _paragraph (a) _of _section 16 _applies) ] in relation to the tenancy (whether arising under this Act or otherwise) and, unless the failure provides an excepted basis for termination—
> 
> ( _a_) *the tenant has been notified F86 [ in writing ] of the failure by the landlord *and that notification states that the landlord is entitled to terminate the tenancy if the failure is not remedied within a reasonable time specified in that notification, and
> 
> ( _b_) *the tenant does not remedy the failure within that specified time*.




If it was me I would do the following:


Gather as much evidence as you can about house being used as a place of business. A friend could even attempt to set up an appointment via FB;
Issue a written warning that you have knowledge that the place is being used as a business in breach of tenant's obligations, there is almost certainly a line in the lease about this but even if there isn't it shouldn't matter;
Issue another warning letter after 28 days if the business has not ceased saying next step is termination;
Wait another 28 days and issue a written termination notice on the grounds above;
Talk to tenant and say that you will withdraw it if she stops operating the business. 
You can take step 5 before 2, 3, or 4, you know your tenant best. However if you think it will go to the RTB you should start formally and then try to resolve informally. Resolution with the RTB takes time and informal efforts count for nothing. Make sure to put all relevant detail into the letters. Send them by registered post as well so she can't claim she wasn't advised.

Let us know how you get on!


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## Mowelb (21 Jan 2022)

Thank you all for your help. We gathered all the evidence we could find.  We asked the tenant to stop advertising and using our address for her therapy business.  She was told by email that if she didn’t her contract would be terminated. She increased advertising on Facebook over Christmas period and stopped communicating with us.  She is now using WhatsApp so we are unable to follow her activity.  

We saw a solicitor early January and have instructed him to issue her with a notice terminating the contract.  We have to give her 120 days notice. Apparently email letters are acceptable so landlords beware.  Because of this we will not be renting out the house again and are looking at alternates to cover upkeep costs such as holiday lets.

I will let you know the outcome in 4 months. Thanks again for your advice.


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## Seagull (24 Jan 2022)

Do you have to give 120 days notice even when she's in breach of her tenancy conditions?


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## Mowelb (24 Jan 2022)

According to our solicitor because we did not specify a notice period in the contract. She is a friend so we did not think there would be problems!!!


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## NoRegretsCoyote (24 Jan 2022)

Mowelb said:


> According to our solicitor because we did not specify a notice period in the contract. She is a friend so we did not think there would be problems!!!


That's a bit odd. If it's a normal notification of tenancy I don't think the contract matters really, the periods in the Residental Tenancies Act are binding.


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## mathepac (25 Jan 2022)

Sconeandjam said:


> Personally I would not allow a tenant to carry out any commercial business from a house.


It's not up to you to decide, it's up to the planning authority.


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## mathepac (25 Jan 2022)

Mowelb said:


> When tenant moved in 2 years ago we tried to get landlord insured which would cover her to carry out her holistic therapy business from the property. We could not get any.


Hardly surprising. You cannot get commercial insurance for premises zoned as residential


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## Leo (25 Jan 2022)

mathepac said:


> It's not up to you to decide, it's up to the planning authority.


No, the property owner gets first say in these matters. Just because the local authority might allow it doesn't mean the property owner has to accept that.


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## mathepac (25 Jan 2022)

No, the landlord cannot decide to allow commercial use of a residential property unless the property is rezoned for commercial use by the LA.

And vice versa. Or mixed-use decisions


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## Leo (25 Jan 2022)

mathepac said:


> No, the landlord cannot decide to allow commercial use of a residential property unless the property is rezoned for commercial use by the LA.
> 
> And vice versa. Or mixed-use decisions


Thousands of such businesses operate across the country without that planning (including the example that is the subject of this thread), so while in theory the LA get a say, the primary authority is the landlord. Ruling out commercial activity in the lease would overrule the LA's role in granting permission.


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## mathepac (25 Jan 2022)

Just because we have an appallingly lax attitude to law enforcement, planning, traffic, licencing and criminal, doesn't mean authority cedes to the property owner.  In decisions like "allowing" commercial activity from a residential premises, the landlord has no authority, zero.  Crappy local authorities, corrupt councillors and/or lazy LA officials don't alter the chain of command or responsibility.


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## mathepac (25 Jan 2022)

Leo said:


> Ruling out commercial activity in the lease would overrule the LA's role in granting permission.


All the lease needs to say is "agreed use in compliance with LA planning decisions, copy attached"


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## Baby boomer (25 Jan 2022)

A landlord can insist on a term that says, for instance, smoking is not allowed in the dwelling.  S/he can equally insist on a term saying no commercial activities can be carried on from the premises.  If this is accepted and signed, it is an inherent part of the tenancy agreement.  A termination notice can be served for breach of tenant obligations, complying of course with all relevant RTB regulations and notice periods.


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## Leo (25 Jan 2022)

mathepac said:


> All the lease needs to say is "agreed use in compliance with LA planning decisions, copy attached"


Why would you chose to complicate things when so many properties have no such condition attached?


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## mathepac (25 Jan 2022)

I have no idea why landlords would issue defective leases that don't specify the full expectations of their prospective tenants. T&Cs in contracts must be explicit, nothing is ever implicit.


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## Baby boomer (25 Jan 2022)

mathepac said:


> .....T&Cs in contracts must be explicit, nothing is ever implicit.


You have just upended centuries of contract law!!!

Many, many contracts have implied terms.  Ever hear of custom and practice?  There are terms that are implied by law, either statute law or common law, in many types of contract.  Employment law would be a good example, but there's many others too.


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## Leo (26 Jan 2022)

mathepac said:


> Just because we have an appallingly lax attitude to law enforcement, planning, traffic, licencing and criminal, doesn't mean authority cedes to the property owner. In decisions like "allowing" commercial activity from a residential premises, the landlord has no authority, zero.


I'd suggest you read through a few planning decisions over the years. The majority of properties have no condition attached prohibiting commercial activity, indeed how much of our housing stock was built prior to the planning system coming into force?

I'm guessing you're confusing a condition that is now commonly applied to all domestic developments with a garage. Most if not all LAs will attach a condition requiring they be used for domestic and private purposes only. My current home has such a condition, it applies to the garage only, my last property didn't have a garage and had no such condition, though the freehold did prohibit the keeping of chickens.

Also, you need to understand that incidental commercial activity in a residential setting is perfectly legal. If incidental commercial activity was prohibited, having so many people working from home wound be a problem. It is only when the scale of such activity would result in disruption to neighbours that it becomes a concern for the planning authorities.


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## mathepac (26 Jan 2022)

I do appreciate the difference between having increased vehicular traffic and/or increased footfall through a street to a residential premises and taking the odd phone call or using a laptop to access business documents on the internet inside that same premises.  It's the same difference as carrying business documents in a briefcase in your car to and from work with social, domestic, and leisure usage insurance and carrying tools or commercial goods in the boot without commercial insurance.



Baby boomer said:


> You have just upended centuries of contract law!!!


I admit I am unfamiliar with renting properties and related agreements, but I am familiar with contracts between large organisations, both for commercial and R&D purposes.  I'd have been on the project management side both as a client and a supplier.  Our legal advisors in both instances would have had the same credo - if it's not in the contract, it doesn't exist; not as a term nor as a condition, not as a deliverable, a responsibility, a penalty, a due date, a working condition or anything else. In other words, what goes in the contract gets measured, other-wise it has no relevance and nothing is ever implied.


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## newirishman (26 Jan 2022)

Leo said:


> Also, you need to understand that incidental commercial activity in a residential setting is perfectly legal. If incidental commercial activity was prohibited, having so many people working from home wound be a problem. It is only when the scale of such activity would result in disruption to neighbours that it becomes a concern for the planning authorities.


I guess the smell of essential oils could be a bit off-putting for some neighbours...


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## Leo (26 Jan 2022)

newirishman said:


> I guess the smell of essential oils could be a bit off-putting for some neighbours...


They might be applying a little too liberally if the neighbours have an issue  .  A typical issue that would give rise to planning intervention is when someone running a child-minding service form their home expands that into more of a daycare service with larger numbers resulting in increased traffic.


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## Leo (26 Jan 2022)

mathepac said:


> I do appreciate the difference between having increased vehicular traffic and/or increased footfall through a street to a residential premises and taking the odd phone call or using a laptop to access business documents on the internet inside that same premises. It's the same difference as carrying business documents in a briefcase in your car to and from work with social, domestic, and leisure usage insurance and carrying tools or commercial goods in the boot without commercial insurance.


Do you now appreciate that there is nothing in legislation prohibiting incidental commercial use of a residential property?



mathepac said:


> It's the same difference as carrying business documents in a briefcase in your car to and from work with social, domestic, and leisure usage insurance and carrying tools or commercial goods in the boot without commercial insurance.


I don't get this. Are you suggesting SDP policies offer cover for the value of business documents carried in your private car?


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## mathepac (26 Jan 2022)

Define "incidental commercial use"? Would that include only using the forge outside the garden shed to shoe horses on Thursdays?

SDL cover includes driving to and from work. Some proposal documents ask that specific question. People driving to and from work may carry briefcases or shoulder bags containing business papers they produced or worked on at home. Who values business documents?


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## Leo (27 Jan 2022)

mathepac said:


> Define "incidental commercial use"? Would that include only using the forge outside the garden shed to shoe horses on Thursdays?


You can refer to a dictionary for the definition of incidental. It is the local authority who will decide on whether a commercial use crosses the line from incidental to having an impact upon their neighbours. 



mathepac said:


> SDL cover includes driving to and from work. Some proposal documents ask that specific question. People driving to and from work may carry briefcases or shoulder bags containing business papers they produced or worked on at home. Who values business documents?


I'm trying to understand why you brought that up. SD&P cover, as you state includes driving to and from work. The presence of work related documents or tools in the vehicle does not alter that cover. In the event of a claim, with SD&P cover you are excluded from claiming for the value of any work related items, tools or documents.


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## Mowelb (13 May 2022)

*Update*.  Solicitor issued termination letter giving termination date of 28th May  (120 days) in January. RTB notified.  No response from tenant apart from increase advertising videos taken in house, vouchers, offers. Tried ringing/texting to arrange a time and date for handover of keys, meter reading etc; No response.  Second solicitor’s letter issued with threat of legal action.  No response so far.  We have tried once again to obtain landlord insurance to cover this situtation without success.  Does anyone know of any insurance companies which cover these circumstances until we can get the tenant legally evicted which can take a further 3 to 6 months if she does not leave on 28th.


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## Mowelb (5 Jul 2022)

Tenant still refusing to leave and still running business from our property.  Challenging legality of eviction noticed issued by our solicitor!!!  Says she has somewhere from end of August and will leave then if we stop further action. Reluctantly agreed and hope she keeps her word. Failing that we will have to start legal action to have her evicted. Definitely will not rent again.


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## mathepac (5 Jul 2022)

You're allowing yourselves to be bullied and I can almost guarantee she won't be gone by the end of August, about 7 weeks away,


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## PebbleBeach2020 (6 Jul 2022)

There is zero chance she will be gone. Zero.


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## cremeegg (6 Jul 2022)

Mowelb said:


> Tenant still refusing to leave and still running business from our property.  Challenging legality of eviction noticed issued by our solicitor!!!  Says she has somewhere from end of August and will leave then if we stop further action. Reluctantly agreed and hope she keeps her word. Failing that we will have to start legal action to have her evicted. Definitely will not rent again.


She may or may not be gone by end of August. I have no doubt she would like to be gone, the situation is entirely of her making still it cannot be pleasant for her, but her plans to move may not work out.

As I understand termination notice has been issued for 28th May so at this point she is overholding. I would hold off on any further action until end August, what can you do in any case. The obvious quid pro quo is that she not challenge the validity of the notice.

After August I would bring pressure to bear. You say she was a friend. Notify all your mutual acquaintances of the situation, tell her customers that she is running a business from a premises without permission etc.


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## NoRegretsCoyote (6 Jul 2022)

Mowelb said:


> Failing that we will have to start legal action to have her evicted.


Have you made a complaint to the RTB? If so, what is the status?


I'm not sure what legal action you can take until the RTB have issued an adjudication order.


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## lff12 (10 Jul 2022)

Sconeandjam said:


> This would worry me if I was the landlord. You may not like what you hear.
> 
> Personally I would not allow a tenant to carry out any commercial business from a house. If I found out I would give a notice to stop or the lease would be broken. See what you have written in your contract and if there is a line saying no commercial business allowed. Take a screenshot of the advertisement and date and time it.
> From your post above you knew they had a holistic business before they moved in. If you want to keep the tenant then write a letter to the tenant that they need to rent a premises away from the house and not run a business from a residential property. They can rent a place in a salon. If they continue then give notice.
> ...


Running a business out of a private residence is a change of use and contrary to planning (unless you've specific PP for that use), so you are also legally liable for breach of PP conditions. Termination notice might be the only solution.


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## lff12 (10 Jul 2022)

mathepac said:


> No, the landlord cannot decide to allow commercial use of a residential property unless the property is rezoned for commercial use by the LA.
> 
> And vice versa. Or mixed-use decisions


Even if you are in a "mixed use" zoned area, you STILL have to apply for PP to use a residential unit for business use. And the LA will almost certainly refuse it if you do apply.


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## Sconeandjam (11 Jul 2022)

Mowelb said:


> Tenant still refusing to leave and still running business from our property.  Challenging legality of eviction noticed issued by our solicitor!!!  Says she has somewhere from end of August and will leave then if we stop further action. Reluctantly agreed and hope she keeps her word. Failing that we will have to start legal action to have her evicted. Definitely will not rent again.


I would not wait. You already know it will just delay the situation. She will not find a place. I wonder if she realises her name will appear on Rtb site once you win the case.
Do not do mediation go straight to adjudication. She has already proven mediation will not work.
Your tenant is the type who think that they know better than the law.


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## Mowelb (15 Jul 2022)

mathepac said:


> You're allowing yourselves to be bullied and I can almost guarantee she won't be gone by the end of August, about 7 weeks away,


What do you suggest we do legally.  We have a solicitor who is action on our behalf. We have kept Rental Tenancy Board informed at all stages.  The law and RTB rules are very specific.  If you know of any other action we can take I would be grateful if you could advise us.


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## BlackandBlue (17 Jul 2022)

You have a solicitor who advised you of the correct legal steps to follow.

If they have done their job then the tenants appeal to the RTB on "invalid notice" grounds will fail .

However, you admit that you have agreed to the tenant "leaving" in August.
So, you may have invalidated what probably was a correctly sent termination notice.

Talk to your solicitor.


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## Horatio (18 Jul 2022)

Sconeandjam said:


> I would not wait. You already know it will just delay the situation. She will not find a place. I wonder if she realises her name will appear on Rtb site once you win the case.
> Do not do mediation go straight to adjudication. She has already proven mediation will not work.
> Your tenant is the type who think that they know better than the law.


Agree 100%. Your tenant has not demonstrated any integrity in her dealings with you to date. Why would she start now.
Do what's right for you without delay.

BTW is the rent being paid?


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## Sconeandjam (21 Jul 2022)

Mowelb,
In regards to your tenant asking to stay to August did you answer in writing or was it over the phone? If over the phone continue with RTB process. Do not update RTB that you have allowed her to stay. As you are in the middle of the month give her a call now and see when she is moving out and ask her if she can up date you on this.


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## Mowelb (1 Sep 2022)

Tenant has moved out today. No curtains, light fittings, oil or gas left. she says she was told we were just nit picking and many business were being run without planning permission and nobody would tell insurance companies. We have caused her a lot of stress and money!!! We are left with two main rooms with wires hanging from ceiling and no lights.  We gave her a full tank of oil and it will cost us €1200 to refill. At least she’s gone And we’ve learned valuable lessons. Trust no one.


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## mikeyny (1 Sep 2022)

It might seem like a big price to pay at the moment and you could feel some disappointment with the way things turned out .In a few weeks you will realize how relieved you are that it’s all over and it could have been a lot worse .
I have been there and know how you feel.


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## murphaph1 (2 Sep 2022)

Yeah could have been much worse. I was out thousands due to commercial use and the damage done to the kitchen. Count your blessings and move on and never rent to friends or family. It never seems to end well!


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## odyssey06 (2 Sep 2022)

Mowelb said:


> Tenant has moved out today. No curtains, light fittings, oil or gas left. she says she was told we were just nit picking and many business were being run without planning permission and nobody would tell insurance companies. We have caused her a lot of stress and money!!! We are left with two main rooms with wires hanging from ceiling and no lights.  We gave her a full tank of oil and it will cost us €1200 to refill. At least she’s gone And we’ve learned valuable lessons. Trust no one.


Change the locks, alarm code, wifi password etc!


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## Seagull (5 Sep 2022)

How spiteful are you feeling. Is it worth taking a case against her with the RTB? You might get an award out of them, although very little chance of actually being paid. Upside might be she winds up on a list somewhere and has major difficulties renting elsewhere.
Similarly, if she's removed fixtures and fittings, that's theft. Report her to the gardai. Again, you're unlikely to get anything back, but it could make her life difficult.


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