# Nutters in Knock



## Purple (13 Oct 2009)

Should the [broken link removed] just be rounded up and put on a small Island off the coast somewhere?


----------



## Sylvester3 (13 Oct 2009)

I thought thats what Ireland was for?


----------



## z104 (13 Oct 2009)

I often think the Police should watch the X factor to round up similarly delusioned people.


----------



## z107 (13 Oct 2009)

> John Tunney, from Islandeady, Castlebar, said: “I’m 53 years old and I never seen the sun go like that before. I witnessed the sun go all different colours, yellow, red and green. Then it completely darkened and began shimmering. Sometimes the sun emitted a clean, bright light, then it would darken again.”


John Tunney from Castlebar should probably make an appointment with his optician to get his retinas checked for damage.


----------



## Caveat (13 Oct 2009)

Why aren't Met Eireann simply contacted so that they can confirm that absolutely nothing out of the ordinary occurred in relation to the sun and that therefore, yes, this lot are a bunch of sad, needy loolahs?


----------



## Pique318 (13 Oct 2009)

Nutters ? Careful now Purple, that could be construed as offensive to the more pious amongst us !!


----------



## VOR (13 Oct 2009)

If this happened in the deepest darkest jungles of South America we would be watching it on National Geo and referring to "rituals of primitive people". 
We've already had loolahs in Rathkeale flocking to a tree stump and now this. They are all mad.


----------



## callybags (13 Oct 2009)

> Yvonne Rabbitte, from Dunmore, Co Galway, showed other pilgrims a photograph she had taken on her digital camera which showed vivid *rays radiating downwards* *from the sun* at the time the image was taken.


 
Rays radiating from the sun!  Whatever next?

Raindrops proving to be wet?
Moving clouds?
Dry spells between the showers?


----------



## Betsy Og (13 Oct 2009)

Sure as long as they're happy and no one is ripping them off then what harm. 

Not so long ago EVERYONE believed in an apparition that also turned out to be false (property bubble, FF, we're all gonna be rich forever etc. ;-) )


----------



## ivuernis (13 Oct 2009)

Purple said:


> Should the [broken link removed] just be rounded up and put on a small Island off the coast somewhere?


 
We should help them see as clearly as possible


----------



## The_Banker (13 Oct 2009)

This kind of thing always happens in a recession.... In the 80s it was moving statues..


----------



## Betsy Og (13 Oct 2009)

I dont claim to have religious faith but I gather that for those who do it is a source of comfort and a force for good in their lives.

Now, assuming they're with a legit church that isnt ripping them off or controlling their minds, maybe they're as well off believing.

If 5,000 stand in a field and feel better after it, whether they thought they saw something or not, then how bad?

I wouldnt say they are nutters, more easily led/gullible/curious but despite how odd it seems to the rest of us, it might be doing them some good. They might get something from the prayathon that they didnt get from the stationary statue, stump, apparition etc.


----------



## BeanPole (13 Oct 2009)

Sounds like a more bizarre Father Ted episode.

Are there lots of people there wearing "I shot JR" t-shirts?


----------



## Complainer (13 Oct 2009)

betsy og said:


> not so long ago everyone believed in an apparition that also turned out to be false (property bubble, ff, we're all gonna be rich forever etc. ;-) )


:d


----------



## Ash 22 (13 Oct 2009)

They're not doing any harm to anybody and they went there of their own free will. Many people over the years have spoken about experiences they have had at places like Ballinspittle, Melleray Grotto etc which have changed their lives and who are we to doubt.


----------



## BeanPole (14 Oct 2009)

Ash 22 said:


> ...Many people over the years have spoken about experiences they have had at places like Ballinspittle, Melleray Grotto etc which have changed their lives and who are we to doubt.


 
Hmmm... reminds me of Freuds quote about the Irish ...

"This is one race of people for whom psychoanalysis is of no use whatsoever."


----------



## mathepac (14 Oct 2009)

> ... Many people over the years have spoken about experiences they have had at places like Ballinspittle, Melleray Grotto ....


Craggy Island, The Twilight Zone, LaLa Land, The Night Garden, 


> ...  etc which have changed their lives and who are we to doubt.


----------



## casiopea (14 Oct 2009)

I was in Cape Cod a couple of weeks ago and it reminded me of Knock....except with Clams instead of This post will be deleted if not edited immediately.


----------



## Caveat (14 Oct 2009)

Ash 22 said:


> They're not doing any harm to anybody


 
Well I would argue that they are harming the image of this country and that they are an embarrassment.



> ... and who are we to doubt.


 
Mostly I hope, more rational beings.


----------



## Guest116 (14 Oct 2009)

Caveat said:


> Well I would argue that they are harming the image of this country and that they are an embarrassment.
> 
> Mostly I hope, more rational beings.


 
No they are not an embarrassment. You obviously feel every religious order in the world is an embarassment but everyone should be free to practice their religion without such prejudices.


----------



## Caveat (14 Oct 2009)

aristotle25 said:


> You obviously feel every religious order in the world is an embarassment


 
What are you talking about? 

What makes you think that I _obviously_ feel this?!


----------



## Graham_07 (14 Oct 2009)

ivuernis said:


> We should help them see as clearly as possible


 

Should have gone to .....


----------



## Guest116 (14 Oct 2009)

So you are saying it is just catholics in Knock who are an embarassement and no other religious meetings are?


----------



## Caveat (14 Oct 2009)

aristotle25 said:


> So you are saying it is just catholics in Knock who are an embarassement and no other religious meetings are?


 
I'll maybe answer your question when you answer mine.


----------



## Purple (14 Oct 2009)

aristotle25 said:


> You obviously feel every religious order in the world is an embarassment but everyone should be free to practice their religion without such prejudices.


 Rubbish, if my religion involved human sacrifice, force conversion, child abuse, oppression etc should I be allowed to practice it?
I am sure what you mean is that everyone should be allowed to practice their religion without prejudice as long at they don't break the law or attempt to restrict the rights of others. Many religions don't fall into that category.


----------



## Guest116 (14 Oct 2009)

Purple said:


> Rubbish, if my religion involved human sacrifice, force conversion, child abuse, oppression etc should I be allowed to practice it?
> I am sure what you mean is that everyone should be allowed to practice their religion without prejudice as long at they don't break the law or attempt to restrict the rights of others. Many religions don't fall into that category.


 
Well yes, of course. Goes without saying.


----------



## Ash 22 (14 Oct 2009)

Caveat said:


> Well I would argue that they are harming the image of this country and that they are an embarrassment.
> 
> 
> If there were more people like them this country would be a far, far better place.


----------



## Caveat (14 Oct 2009)

Can I ask why?

By the way, did you notice that the article mentioned that the monsignor declined to comment on the whole thing and that he was attempting, via loudspeaker, to entice people inside the church for a celebration of the official annual Dominican pilgrimage?

Or that those present appeared to have been prompted by the 'predictions' of a Dublin based 'clairvoyant'?

I wouldn't be so sure that any of this has the recognition never mind blessing of the church - which might partly answer Aristotle's  postings.


----------



## liaconn (14 Oct 2009)

They are a group of people having what they genuinely believed was a spiritual experience. They weren't harming anyone, causing a disturbance or getting drunk and disorderly or high on drugs.

On my list of people who have embarassed this country, I would put them very, very low down.


----------



## ivuernis (14 Oct 2009)

liaconn said:


> They weren't ... high on drugs.


 
Lucky them. I usually have to pay for those sort of "trips".


----------



## Chocks away (14 Oct 2009)

ivuernis said:


> Lucky them. I usually have to pay for those sort of "trips".


Hey! You're already there . In a place you shouldn't be - judging by your counter (28). Tell us, how can you interfere with the workings of the forum? Can you turn back time? Are you the antichrist?


----------



## BeanPole (14 Oct 2009)

Ash 22 said:


> If there were more people like them this country would be a far, far better place.


 
Too true - I've often wondered what it would be like to appear in a real live episode of Fr Ted.

Do you reckon this lot had anything to do with the missing llamas from the M50 a few weeks back?


----------



## ivuernis (14 Oct 2009)

Chocks away said:


> Hey! You're already there . In a place you shouldn't be - judging by your counter (28). Tell us, how can you interfere with the workings of the forum? Can you turn back time? Are you the antichrist?



My counter got reset. Asked one of the mods but they didn't know why. I've  outside of The Depths but my counter stays stubbornly low.


----------



## Chocks away (14 Oct 2009)

ivuernis said:


> My counter got reset. Asked one of the mods but they didn't know why. I've  outside of The Depths but my counter stays stubbornly low.


187/28! Systolic dangerously high and Hey, are you sure you're alive?


----------



## Ash 22 (14 Oct 2009)

BeanPole said:


> Do you reckon this lot had anything to do with the missing llamas from the M50 a few weeks back?


 
I can't see where you get a connection with "this lot" and missing llamas or maybe we missed something. Was Noah in Knock?


----------



## BeanPole (14 Oct 2009)

Ash 22 said:


> I can't see where you get a connection with "this lot" and missing llamas or maybe we missed something. Was Noah in Knock?


 
I heard it was the beardy lad himself shakin' the sun


----------



## Ancutza (15 Oct 2009)

I got dragged along to one of these about 5 years ago by my then girlfriend, now missus.  I think her ma put her up to it since she (the ma) couldn't go herself.  Anyway it was a rare old day out.  Drove 5 hours to get there, walked thro' a sea of mud for 3kms and then stood for 4 hours in the ****ings of rain on the top of a hill in Romania staring at some storm clouds which the sun almost broke thro'.  Meanwhile the bells in the local monastery were peeling and the rain was stinging my eyes like angry bees fired from a spud gun.  It was absolutely brilliant!!! Put me off religion for life, but I did score some brownie points with the MIL.  Me and the missus have since agreed that we'll pay any amount of money to have a taxi take the MIL there next time.

And yes, there were rapturous crowds of lunatics all around us who swore they saw the blessed virgin in the clouds.  Me?  Well I just had soggy feet and was one step closer to an altar and some guy dressed like father christmas who told me it was okay to now sleep under the same roof as my other half.


----------



## Purple (15 Oct 2009)

Ancutza said:


> I got dragged along to one of these about 5 years ago by my then girlfriend, now missus.  I think her ma put her up to it since she (the ma) couldn't go herself.  Anyway it was a rare old day out.  Drove 5 hours to get there, walked thro' a sea of mud for 3kms and then stood for 4 hours in the ****ings of rain on the top of a hill in Romania staring at some storm clouds which the sun almost broke thro'.  Meanwhile the bells in the local monastery were peeling and the rain was stinging my eyes like angry bees fired from a spud gun.  It was absolutely brilliant!!! Put me off religion for life, but I did score some brownie points with the MIL.  Me and the missus have since agreed that we'll pay any amount of money to have a taxi take the MIL there next time.
> 
> And yes, there were rapturous crowds of lunatics all around us who swore they saw the blessed virgin in the clouds.  Me?  Well I just had soggy feet and was one step closer to an altar and some guy dressed like father christmas who told me it was okay to now sleep under the same roof as my other half.



Brilliant!


----------



## Mpsox (15 Oct 2009)

Purple said:


> Should the [broken link removed] just be rounded up and put on a small Island off the coast somewhere?


 
I'm reminded of the Rowan Atkinson sketch when he plays the devil welcoming people to hell and organising them into groups
"Athiests! Athiests? you must feel a right bunch of nitwits
Christians? I'm sorry,I'm afraid the Jews were right after all
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XFGrQMD6Uqc

Personally, if you were going to round up people and put them on a small island, I'd put Sinn Fein voting, Man Utd supporting, tabloid reading Kerry men first but each to their own.

These people in Knock were doing no harm, far worse things they could be up to


----------



## One (15 Oct 2009)

I was in Knock on Sunday with a friend. We were walking around the basilica and when we came to the side of it there were hundreds and hundreds of people staring up at the sky. Then, small pockets of the crowd would start applauding. We both looked upwards to see what were they looking at? The sun was very bright, and there were some long thin clouds in the sky. The sun was too bright to look directly at. Most people had a hand up to their forehead to protect their eyes.

I could see no unusual colour, the sky was blue, the clouds were white and grey. I certainly did not see the sun go all different colours (yellow, red and green). The sun certainly did not completely darken. But pockets of the crowd repeatedly started applauding again and again for no apparent reason. I looked at them and looked up at the sky. I was very curious to see why they were applauding. I could see nothing unusual whatsoever in the sky. Clouds passed in front of the sun every now and then. But I can’t say I saw anymore than that. These rounds of applause kept on occurring, but I just walked away. 

Afterwards I asked one woman what she saw? She swore she saw the sun go blue. I asked a few more people what they saw? They said they saw nothing whatsoever.


----------



## Ash 22 (15 Oct 2009)

Purple said:


> Should the [broken link removed] just be rounded up and put on a small Island off the coast somewhere?


 
Why would you put mentally ill people on a small island? Is that how you think they should be treated?


----------



## Guest116 (15 Oct 2009)

One said:


> Afterwards I asked one woman what she saw? She swore she saw the sun go blue.


 
Thats what happens when you burn holes in your retina from staring at the sun!


----------



## Bronte (15 Oct 2009)

No it's not as scientific as that it's what happens when you give people too much valium.


----------



## BeanPole (15 Oct 2009)

Mpsox said:


> Personally, if you were going to round up people and put them on a small island, I'd put Sinn Fein voting, Man Utd supporting, tabloid reading Kerry men first but each to their own.


 
A bit harsh on Kerry people - I'd put such folk from Cork in there too


----------



## Purple (15 Oct 2009)

Ash 22 said:


> Why would you put mentally ill people on a small island? Is that how you think they should be treated?


 Yes, it was a serious question. 



BeanPole said:


> A bit harsh on Kerry people - I'd put such folk from Cork in there too


 But who'd live in Cork then?


----------



## BeanPole (15 Oct 2009)




----------



## elefantfresh (15 Oct 2009)

I don't want to put a spanner in the works but, isn't it possible something actually DID happen down there?


----------



## Purple (15 Oct 2009)

elefantfresh said:


> I don't want to put a spanner in the works but, isn't it possible something actually DID happen down there?



No


----------



## BeanPole (15 Oct 2009)

+1

Mass hysteria

If any of us are foolish to stare at the sun for long enough, it will dance for you too


----------



## truthseeker (15 Oct 2009)

elefantfresh said:


> I don't want to put a spanner in the works but, isn't it possible something actually DID happen down there?


 
Yes - something DID happen, a load of deluded people got together and convinced themselves and each other of dancing suns and spiritual activity. Mass hysteria - pardon the pun.


----------



## MrMan (16 Oct 2009)

Caveat said:


> Well I would argue that they are harming the image of this country and that they are an embarrassment.
> 
> 
> 
> Mostly I hope, more rational beings.


 
I'm kind of surprised at this response Caveat. I would have hoped that we were all at the stage of live and let live and being able to accept that we are most definitley not all alike. 
These people most likely saw what they wanted to see but why the need to beat down their theories and obvious feelings of delight? Some people felt happiness and warmth and maybe its because they needed to feel it. Some people cling to hope and faith and it gets them through tough times, just ignore there declarations of religious sightings and your world won't be altered.


----------



## truthseeker (16 Oct 2009)

I wish I could experience feelings of rapture so easily.


----------



## Purple (16 Oct 2009)

truthseeker said:


> I wish I could experience feelings of rapture so easily.


 www.missfantasia.ie


----------



## truthseeker (16 Oct 2009)

Purple said:


> [broken link removed]


 
Hardly comparable to a religious experience is it?

IS it?


----------



## MrMan (16 Oct 2009)

truthseeker said:


> I wish I could experience feelings of rapture so easily.


The fact that you consider these people deluded would seem to be a barrier in opening up to the notion of what they seemed to enjoy. 
Even if you don't have faith I'd say by being there and experiencing others reactions would be a little contagious, if it didn't just make you laugh (which is a good feeling also, so a win win situation!).


----------



## Caveat (16 Oct 2009)

MrMan said:


> I'm kind of surprised at this response Caveat. I would have hoped that we were all at the stage of live and let live and being able to accept that we are most definitley not all alike.
> These people most likely saw what they wanted to see but why the need to beat down their theories and obvious feelings of delight? Some people felt happiness and warmth and maybe its because they needed to feel it. Some people cling to hope and faith and it gets them through tough times, just ignore there declarations of religious sightings and your world won't be altered.


 
Fair enough MrMan, live and let live  - of course.

But I think "... accepting that we are not all alike" and the use of the word "theories" is being overly generous to the sensibilities of these people. 

They are deluded, plain and simple - do you not agree?

I don't think it's harmless either - presumably at least some of these people have kids and in the 21st century I don't think it's at all healthy for them to grow up believing it is normal to see 'apparitions' or whatever.

Yes, the sensible thing to do is ignore them and I perfectly understand the need for some people to see things like this  - but if I'm honest, as I've said, I find it a national embarrassment.


----------



## VOR (16 Oct 2009)

MrMan said:


> I'm kind of surprised at this response Caveat. I would have hoped that we were all at the stage of live and let live and being able to accept that we are most definitley not all alike.
> These people most likely saw what they wanted to see but why the need to beat down their theories and obvious feelings of delight? Some people felt happiness and warmth and maybe its because they needed to feel it. Some people cling to hope and faith and it gets them through tough times, just ignore there declarations of religious sightings and your world won't be altered.


 
Imagine if one of these loolahs told you that he/she was staring at the sun in the sky and it turned blue in honour of St. Mary. Then imagine that same person said "and the operation is a small one whereby I crack open your ribs, slow down your heart until it stops and then insert this little beauty".

Or perhaps this one "Your son is doing well in school. He has promise. He is a happy little fella, almost as happy as I was last week when the sun danced around in the sky and God sent rays forth as I sign to us all".

I am with Caveat. You'd have to be mad or stupid to believe any of it. Possibly both.


----------



## dockingtrade (16 Oct 2009)

if 'holy mary' wanted to appear. Why make the sun shimmer, why not just appear?


----------



## liaconn (16 Oct 2009)

Caveat said:


> but if I'm honest, as I've said, I find it a national embarrassment.


 
I find our politicians a national embarassment
I find our ill and elderly left lying on trollies in A&E Units a national embarassment
I find our binge drinkers vomitting all over the street and clogging up aforementioned A&E Units a national embarassment
I find our thugs beating up old people for a few hundred euro a national embarassment

There are many things that make me embarassed for this Country. A couple of hundred people standing in a field, harming no one with their spiritual beliefs or searches is not one of them, to be quite honest.


----------



## truthseeker (16 Oct 2009)

MrMan said:


> The fact that you consider these people deluded would seem to be a barrier in opening up to the notion of what they seemed to enjoy.
> Even if you don't have faith I'd say by being there and experiencing others reactions would be a little contagious, if it didn't just make you laugh (which is a good feeling also, so a win win situation!).


 
Im well open to it - in fact, as I said, I wish I could experience it myself!!

But it takes a certain level of delusion to believe these things and Im just not susceptible to it.

I think if I was there Id be a little frightened at the mass delusion tbh, how would you feel in the middle of a group of people claiming to see things that you couldnt see? Id be wondering if I was crazy or were they crazy!


----------



## Caveat (16 Oct 2009)

liaconn said:


> I find our politicians a national embarassment
> I find our ill and elderly left lying on trollies in A&E Units a national embarassment
> I find our binge drinkers vomitting all over the street and clogging up aforementioned A&E Units a national embarassment
> I find our thugs beating up old people for a few hundred euro a national embarassment
> ...


 
I think that's a bit unfair Liaconn.

Obviously there are far far worse things going on in this country. 

The things you mention far exceed 'embarrassment' in any sense of the word. They are a disgrace.


----------



## truthseeker (16 Oct 2009)

Is false belief harmless or dangerous?


----------



## Pique318 (16 Oct 2009)

VOR said:


> Imagine if one of these loolahs told you that he/she was staring at the sun in the sky and it turned blue in honour of St. Mary. Then imagine that same person said "and the operation is a small one whereby I crack open your ribs, slow down your heart until it stops and then insert this little beauty".
> 
> Or perhaps this one "Your son is doing well in school. He has promise. He is a happy little fella, almost as happy as I was last week when the sun danced around in the sky and God sent rays forth as I sign to us all".
> 
> I am with Caveat. You'd have to be mad or stupid to believe any of it. Possibly both.



LOL Brilliant !!


----------



## liaconn (16 Oct 2009)

truthseeker said:


> Is false belief harmless or dangerous?


 
But everyone thinks that people who believe something that they don't has a false belief. People who believe in God would think that those who believe there is no God have a false belief.


----------



## Pique318 (16 Oct 2009)

and based on the evidence, they would be wrong.


----------



## truthseeker (16 Oct 2009)

liaconn said:


> But everyone thinks that people who believe something that they don't has a false belief. People who believe in God would think that those who believe there is no God have a false belief.


 
Theres no evidence for the existance of a god. So the believers are believing in something they can never prove. Do you think positive belief in something you can never prove is dangerous?

I realise one cannot prove there is NO god either, but thats a negative belief, people who dont hold a belief in god dont try to do things in the name of 'no god'.


----------



## Caveat (16 Oct 2009)

liaconn said:


> But everyone thinks that people who believe something that they don't has a false belief.


 
But the big difference with Knock is that it can quite easily be shown that there is or was nothing there to believe in.  So it is false belief.  They are entitled to it, but is is simply erroneous.


----------



## liaconn (16 Oct 2009)

truthseeker said:


> Theres no evidence for the existance of a god. So the believers are believing in something they can never prove. Do you think positive belief in something you can never prove is dangerous?
> 
> I realise one cannot prove there is NO god either, but thats a negative belief, people who dont hold a belief in god dont try to do things in the name of 'no god'.


 
In fairness, there are Countries where people are severely punished, or even killed, for openly practising their religion. I think, in the end, it comes down to tolerance and not abusing and twisting your religious beliefs to control others (as of course happened here in Ireland and I accept that).


----------



## Purple (16 Oct 2009)

While I do think they are all a bit mad to be staring at the sky, thinking they are seeing the sun wave and them or whatever, I would defend their right to do it. That’s the great thing about a democracy; you have the right to be stupid, believe in stupid things and even do stupid things as long as you don’t damage others or seek to limit their rights.

That said I saw my doctor down, a big happy head on him, gormlessly staring at the sky, there’s no way I’d take medical advice from him again.


----------



## MrMan (16 Oct 2009)

Caveat said:


> Fair enough MrMan, live and let live  - of course.
> 
> But I think "... accepting that we are not all alike" and the use of the word "theories" is being overly generous to the sensibilities of these people.
> 
> ...



No I don't agree. To say they are deluded plain and simple seems to suggest that you have answers that are very black and white to age old discussions that have never been proven on either side.
Kids believing in apparitions would hardly lead them down a dark path. As has been said before Santa and the tooth fairy are as logical as god to yourself and other posters yet you don't see any harm in giving them something to look forward to?

RE: national embarrassment, I still can't see how this would make you squirm in front of your friends, being embarrassed about other peoples belief systems makes no sense.


----------



## truthseeker (16 Oct 2009)

Purple said:


> That said I saw my doctor down, a big happy head on him, gormlessly staring at the sky, there’s no way I’d take medical advice from him again.


 
His ability as a doctor might not be influenced by his religious beliefs though? 

I know it sounds patronising and Im going to be slated for it but I do feel that if an adult has a genuine belief in god I find it difficult to respect their intelligence. 
That said, I would defend their right to such a belief. 
But I would view them in the same manner I would if an adult told me that they genuinely believed in Santa Claus (or any other imaginary being).


----------



## truthseeker (16 Oct 2009)

MrMan said:


> Kids believing in apparitions would hardly lead them down a dark path. As has been said before Santa and the tooth fairy are as logical as god to yourself and other posters yet you don't see any harm in giving them something to look forward to?


 
But kids stop believing in such things as they grow up and the adults tell them its false.


----------



## liaconn (16 Oct 2009)

truthseeker said:


> I know it sounds patronising and Im going to be slated for it but I do feel that if an adult has a genuine belief in god I find it difficult to respect their intelligence.


 
I believe in God and I have a fairly high IQ, a Masters degree and a responsible job. I know lots of people who believe in God who are incredibly intelligent. In fact, as the majority of people over a certain age in this country probably believe in God, where does that leave things?

Of course I know people of low intelligence who believe in God. But I also know people of low intelligence who don't believe in him.

ps I don't believe in Santa and have an open mind on the tooth fairy.


----------



## truthseeker (16 Oct 2009)

liaconn said:


> I believe in God and I have a fairly high IQ, a Masters degree and a responsible job. I know lots of people who believe in God who are incredibly intelligent. In fact, as the majority of people over a certain age in this country probably believe in God, where does that leave things?


 
Yes, Im torn on this issue because I do know plenty of otherwise intelligent people who believe - but I just find it difficult to reconcile it within myself that they CAN believe, given their obvious intelligence and the wealth of rational arguments against existance, and the lack of rational arguments for.

I just dont get it. Perhaps its a failing on my part?


----------



## Caveat (16 Oct 2009)

Hang on now - belief or not in God is one thing.  

People believing that they observed magical or supernatural solar activity, for whatever reason, when they didn't, is something else entirely.  

They may want to see these things, they may think they saw these things - but they didn't. 

Just checking, is anyone actually arguing otherwise?


----------



## Purple (16 Oct 2009)

caveat said:


> hang on now - belief or not in god is one thing.
> 
> People believing that they observed magical or supernatural solar activity, for whatever reason, when they didn't, is something else entirely.
> 
> ...



+1


----------



## MrMan (16 Oct 2009)

VOR said:


> Imagine if one of these loolahs told you that he/she was staring at the sun in the sky and it turned blue in honour of St. Mary. Then imagine that same person said "and the operation is a small one whereby I crack open your ribs, slow down your heart until it stops and then insert this little beauty".
> 
> Or perhaps this one "Your son is doing well in school. He has promise. He is a happy little fella, almost as happy as I was last week when the sun danced around in the sky and God sent rays forth as I sign to us all".
> 
> I am with Caveat. You'd have to be mad or stupid to believe any of it. Possibly both.



What if the doctor said 'you may as well stop praying as there is no god you deluded loolah, just accept you will be in the ground soon', the teacher saying 'your son is scoring top of the class but i think he is stupid and deluded as i caught him praying before an exam yesterday'.

you see mad and stupid, i just see petty intolerance.


----------



## liaconn (16 Oct 2009)

Caveat said:


> Hang on now - belief or not in God is one thing.
> 
> People believing that they observed magical or supernatural solar activity, for whatever reason, when they didn't, is something else entirely.
> 
> ...


 
I don't believe, on this occasion, that anything happened and I'm sure the Catholic Church don't either. This just seems to be a bit of mass hysteria by people searching for something or looking for some reassurance. But, to go back to my original point, I don't see any harm in it as long as Brian Lenihan wasn't down there deciding if he saw a blue light he was going to do 'x' with the budget and if he saw a white light he was going to do 'y'.

By the way, if I saw him in the Church praying the night before the budget I would have no problem with that. I often say a prayer myself if I have to make a difficult decision.


----------



## MrMan (16 Oct 2009)

truthseeker said:


> Is false belief harmless or dangerous?



Well does my belief in God harm you or me? How is my belief dangerous? I just say I believe, I don't say you are stupid or deluded for not believing, which to me is dangerous as it is provocative language.


----------



## truthseeker (16 Oct 2009)

MrMan said:


> Well does my belief in God harm you or me? How is my belief dangerous? I just say I believe, I don't say you are stupid or deluded for not believing, which to me is dangerous as it is provocative language.


 
Probably not currently, but there are MANY occasions where harm IS done.
I never said anyone was stupid, but it is my opinion they are deluded - however, I did say, I would defend their right to that delusion.


----------



## MrMan (16 Oct 2009)

truthseeker said:


> But kids stop believing in such things as they grow up and the adults tell them its false.



I found out myself when I was seven, give kids a little credit. The whole country was more or less raised cathloic, yet prob less than half now practice. My point is that it is hardly a brain washing scenario we have on our hands.


----------



## Caveat (16 Oct 2009)

liaconn said:


> I don't believe, on this occasion, that anything happened and I'm sure the Catholic Church don't either.


 
Of course. That was all I was ever saying. I think it was thought that by implication I was ridiculing the wider catholic church and/or Christianity itself but I wasn't.


----------



## lightswitch (16 Oct 2009)

"I think if I was there Id be a little frightened at the mass delusion tbh, how would you feel in the middle of a group of people claiming to see things that you couldnt see? Id be wondering if I was crazy or were they crazy! "

At least now you know how the minority felt for the 5 years preceding the "soft landing" we are currently experiencing.


----------



## Bronte (16 Oct 2009)

truthseeker said:


> I know it sounds patronising and Im going to be slated for it but I do feel that if an adult has a genuine belief in god I find it difficult to respect their intelligence.
> That said, I would defend their right to such a belief.
> But I would view them in the same manner I would if an adult told me that they genuinely believed in Santa Claus (or any other imaginary being).


 
For what it's worth I'm with you on this.  But I need things to be even more logical so I've decided they all were for sure on Valium otherwise I couldn't live with myself.


----------



## truthseeker (16 Oct 2009)

Bronte said:


> For what it's worth I'm with you on this. But I need things to be even more logical so I've decided they all were for sure on Valium otherwise I couldn't live with myself.


 
Can I just get some clarity on this - are you saying that I could get free Valium if I signed up to the deluded masses? 

What are we waiting for!!


----------



## lightswitch (16 Oct 2009)

If they were all on Valium Bronte they most probably wouldn't have bothered going in the first place.  Maybe LSD is making a comeback, they do say the country is riddled with drugs


----------



## One (16 Oct 2009)

I think the way that some people behaved at Knock was completely senseless. I felt like I was in a mad house, and that reality and normal behaviour were temporarily suspended. 

What happened there as far as I could see was:

1/. At 3pm everyone was looking at the statues behind the old church in Knock to see would Our Lady appear. The visionary who has predicted she would come had said she would. 
2/. She did not appear. No one saw her there.
3/. The visionary then said Our Lady told him to tell everyone to look at the sky and Our Lady would send them a sign.
4/. Most people, at the invitation of the priest over the loudspeaker went into the Basilica for mass and had no interest in looking at the sky. Many people stared at the sky.
5/. The vast majority of people who stared at the sky saw nothing unusual.
6/. A small minority of people claimed they saw ‘the sun dancing’ and one woman is reported in the local newspaper to having said ‘I spoke to the Blessed Virgin. She was fading in and out of the clouds. She didn’t appear in full form this time. But she did say she would be back’.
7/. Not one priest said he saw anything unusual.
8/. Not one photograph has appeared of anything unusual, and there were at least two professional photographers present, along with many people having their own camera.

Being there made me realise how wildly conflicting reports about the same incident can be given from people. Hundreds of people were there. One group claims they saw nothing. One group claims they saw the unusual colours and movements of the sun in the sky. Others claim that Our Lady spoke to them. It illustrates how easily it could have been for those people in Knock who claim they saw the original apparition to have been completely mistaken, and how easily they could have made people believe they saw something at the time. 

To exclude religion from this for a moment, it is funny to be part of a society where people simply can’t look up at the sky and accurately bear witness to what there was to see.………a bright sun, a few clouds and a blue sky……and nothing more!

There is no escaping craziness of it all - some people in Knock on Sunday claimed that Our Lady, Mary, Mother of God appeared in the sky and spoke to them, whereas the reality was it was a nice bright day with a few clouds in the sky! And that is not an embarrassment? Yes it is. As Fr. Dougal would say “That’s mad Ted!” 

Have they a right to believe what they want? Yes. Are people entitled to believe in God? Of course. But the people in Knock last Sunday are wrong to say things happened when the reality is they didn’t happen. The only explanation is that they saw what they wanted to see and interpreted things, as they wanted to interpret them.


----------



## Ceist Beag (16 Oct 2009)

truthseeker said:


> I just dont get it. Perhaps its a failing on my part?



If, as you say yourself, you find it difficult to respect someones intelligence if they believe in God simply because you don't get it yourself then I'd have to conclude that yes, that is a failing on your part. Simply because you don't get it is no reason to equate it with a lack of intelligence in those who do believe.
People choose to believe for a whole range of reasons, very few of which I would think myself are because of any argument based on fact.


----------



## truthseeker (16 Oct 2009)

Ceist Beag said:


> If, as you say yourself, you find it difficult to respect someones intelligence if they believe in God simply because you don't get it yourself then I'd have to conclude that yes, that is a failing on your part. Simply because you don't get it is no reason to equate it with a lack of intelligence in those who do believe.
> People choose to believe for a whole range of reasons, very few of which I would think myself are because of any argument based on fact.


 
You misunderstood me - what I dont get is how these people can believe in the face of zero evidence.
I get the god thing - I just dont personally believe it.

Do you think it shows intelligence to believe things based on zero evidence?


----------



## z107 (16 Oct 2009)

One - very interesting post.

I suppose people have to realise that the eyes and brain are very sophisticated sensory apparatus. Unlike video cameras etc, the brain interprets what the eyes see. This can be demonstrated by simple experiments, for example, the 'blind spot'. It is very hard to take a photograph of a rainbow, sunset or fireworks. However, our eyes and brain can interpret these wonderfully.

I believe the Sun 'dancing' effect could have been  produced by involuntary eye movements to stop people burning holes in their retinas. Other visions could probably be the result of brain interpretation in conjunction with strong external suggestion.

What scares me most is the whole voting and democracy system.


----------



## Ceist Beag (16 Oct 2009)

truthseeker said:


> Do you think it shows intelligence to believe things based on zero evidence?



There you go again equating intelligence with faith. Like I said, people choose to believe for a load of different reasons. It's far too simplistic to put it down to a lack of intelligence to believe in something you have seen no evidence for.


----------



## DB74 (16 Oct 2009)

IMO the only miracle that occurred was that it wasn't raining!


----------



## truthseeker (16 Oct 2009)

Ceist Beag said:


> There you go again equating intelligence with faith. Like I said, people choose to believe for a load of different reasons. It's far too simplistic to put it down to a lack of intelligence to believe in something you have seen no evidence for.


 
So what is the reason then?

I suppose Im asking - why do people need faith?


----------



## Ceist Beag (16 Oct 2009)

truthseeker said:


> So what is the reason then?
> 
> I suppose Im asking - why do people need faith?



I'm sure there are a million reasons! It could be anything from a need within people, maybe as a result of a personal event, maybe as a result of a tragedy, who knows. I'm sure there are people who don't even know themselves why they believe. Maybe they grew up thinking they had to believe as a result of their upbringing and never questioned it. Maybe it's not that important to them but if asked they would still say that the believe. Maybe it gives people a certain humility believing their is a being greater than anything in this world. I don't know. But I would say that it's not a black and white issue and I wouldn't be surprised if you asked 100 people who do believe why they do believe and get 100 different answers.
Anyways, this is a bit heavy given the thread is about some nutters who nearly went blind looking directly a the sun!!


----------



## VOR (16 Oct 2009)

MrMan said:


> What if the doctor said 'you may as well stop praying as there is no god you deluded loolah, just accept you will be in the ground soon', the teacher saying 'your son is scoring top of the class but i think he is stupid and deluded as i caught him praying before an exam yesterday'.
> 
> you see mad and stupid, i just see petty intolerance.


 
This had nothing to do with Christian faith. It was an act of pure superstition instigated by a clairvoyant. I don't believe Christian faith entered into it.


----------



## MrMan (16 Oct 2009)

VOR said:


> This had nothing to do with Christian faith. It was an act of pure superstition instigated by a clairvoyant. I don't believe Christian faith entered into it.



do you think there is much difference between someone believing they could see an image in the sky and christians believing in a greater being waiting to save our souls above the clouds??


----------



## MrMan (16 Oct 2009)

truthseeker said:


> So what is the reason then?
> 
> I suppose Im asking - why do people need faith?



I guess my answer is that the world has so many unanswered questions and therefore i won't rule anything out. 
the earth was flat at one time remember so a whole new way of thinking could be just around the corner. I don't believe that any of us can say for sure that if we were created by god, aliens, or a big bang. I just keep an open mind and don't throw myself blindly into any way of life.


----------



## truthseeker (16 Oct 2009)

MrMan said:


> I just keep an open mind and don't throw myself blindly into any way of life.


 
What way would you bet on Pascals Wager?


----------



## Caveat (16 Oct 2009)

MrMan said:


> do you think there is much difference between someone believing they could see an image in the sky and christians believing in a greater being waiting to save our souls above the clouds??


 
Yes, a big one.

The existence of a god or gods cannot be proved or disproved - for the moment.

The notion that the sun 'danced in the sky' or 'changed colour' or behaved in any way out of the ordinary can be easily disproved.


----------



## truthseeker (16 Oct 2009)

Caveat said:


> Yes, a big one.
> 
> The existence of a god or gods cannot be proved or disproved - for the moment.
> 
> The notion that the sun 'danced in the sky' or 'changed colour' or behaved in any way out of the ordinary can be easily disproved.


 
And what about the people who said Our Lady appeared to them - how can one prove or disprove that? Sure we could play them back a video of it showing nothing appeared, but theyre gonna argue that she only appeared to the 'faithful'.


----------



## One (16 Oct 2009)

VOR - "This had nothing to do with Christian faith. It was an act of pure superstition instigated by a clairvoyant. I don't believe Christian faith entered into it".

I agree. 

DB74 - "IMO the only miracle that occurred was that it wasn't raining!"

I definitely agree.


----------



## DB74 (16 Oct 2009)

To the people who think that those who saw "something" is deemed OK or harmless, if the clairvoyant had said "UFOs will appear in the sky at 3pm" and then some people claimed to have seen them, would you still have the same opinion of those people?


----------



## liaconn (16 Oct 2009)

I honestly don't care if they see Santa dancing with Rudolph. They may be very very suggestible or gullible but I don't see why they're harmful or dangerous. Lots of other people I'd be nervous of, but not them.


----------



## VOR (16 Oct 2009)

MrMan said:


> do you think there is much difference between someone believing they could see an image in the sky and christians believing in a greater being waiting to save our souls above the clouds??


 
Yes. Yes I do.


----------



## Caveat (16 Oct 2009)

truthseeker said:


> ...but theyre gonna argue that she only appeared to the 'faithful'.


 
They probably would. Nothing I can say about that but I'm talking specifically about the sun and its 'activities'.


----------



## MrMan (16 Oct 2009)

VOR said:


> Yes. Yes I do.


can you expand on this?


----------



## MrMan (16 Oct 2009)

DB74 said:


> To the people who think that those who saw "something" is deemed OK or harmless, if the clairvoyant had said "UFOs will appear in the sky at 3pm" and then some people claimed to have seen them, would you still have the same opinion of those people?



2 ways of looking at this, upon hearing the clairvoyant you could scoff at the fools and be on your way, or you could take a chance go see for yourself and then you may or may not see something amazing. Would fear of looking like a fool to your peers prevent you from following curiousity?


----------



## MrMan (16 Oct 2009)

Caveat said:


> Yes, a big one.
> 
> The existence of a god or gods cannot be proved or disproved - for the moment.
> 
> The notion that the sun 'danced in the sky' or 'changed colour' or behaved in any way out of the ordinary can be easily disproved.



I wasn't there so I can't be categoric in saying anything did or did not happen. I would be sceptical that any visions were on show but the level of bitterness aimed against people who were there and claimed to have felt or seen something holy is not warranted.


----------



## DB74 (16 Oct 2009)

MrMan said:


> 2 ways of looking at this, upon hearing the clairvoyant you could scoff at the fools and be on your way, or you could take a chance go see for yourself and then you may or may not see something amazing. Would fear of looking like a fool to your peers prevent you from following curiousity?


 
No I'd probably go a have a look but I wouldn't pretend to see something that was shown by cameras not to have been there


----------



## Caveat (16 Oct 2009)

MrMan said:


> I wasn't there so I can't be categoric in saying anything did or did not happen


 
Come on.  

I think you are taking this devil's advocacy a bit too far.

As you may have guessed, I wasn't there either.  If you want something categoric, contact Met Eireann, European Space Agency,  NASA...whoever & I'm sure they'll let you know.


----------



## truthseeker (16 Oct 2009)

MrMan said:


> Would fear of looking like a fool to your peers prevent you from following curiousity?


 
Not me, Im always looking foolish during the most reasonable activities!! But I wouldnt have any curiosity - I wouldnt be taken in in the first place.


----------



## MrMan (17 Oct 2009)

Caveat said:


> Come on.
> 
> I think you are taking this devil's advocacy a bit too far.
> 
> As you may have guessed, I wasn't there either. If you want something categoric, contact Met Eireann, European Space Agency, NASA...whoever & I'm sure they'll let you know.


 
Any chance you could give me the name of an agency with a strong track record in getting things right!


----------



## MrMan (17 Oct 2009)

truthseeker said:


> Not me, Im always looking foolish during the most reasonable activities!! But I wouldnt have any curiosity - I wouldnt be taken in in the first place.


 
One of these days you will give in!


----------



## Yorrick (17 Oct 2009)

This is terrible. Next we will have people saying that there is no such person as Santa. Will someone please think of the children !!!!


----------



## Lak (18 Oct 2009)

Another glorious Mayo religious experience.
It allways tickled me pink to watch dozens and dozens of coaches packed to the gills travelling one after the other down the Newport road in Castlebar on the way to Achill Island once every year as thousands made the anual pilgrimage to a woman there who claims to see apparitions or stigmata or some such.
From the comfort of an  amazingly sumptuous home each year she creams tens of thousands from these gullible imbecilles, its pitifull.


----------



## Lak (18 Oct 2009)

Which brings me to the point that seems to have been overlooked here, the fact that many people draw comfort from unusual religious undertakings is not something that should give any concern, the fact of WHY these thousands of people turned up at the behest of some nonentity of a clairvoyant from the other side of the country, that would surely have a massive vested interest in having thousands of people turn up is a worrying aspect.
People join cults and perform some pretty bizzare things at the requests of un annointed individuals and I see little difference here.
If I announced that the virgin mary was gonna appear from the skip I hired in my garden I would be sure I could get enough fools to want to see for themselves to make a pretty penny.
Its the fact that they went like sheep without reasonable exscuse I find amazing.


----------



## MrMan (18 Oct 2009)

legs-akimbo said:


> Which brings me to the point that seems to have been overlooked here, the fact that many people draw comfort from unusual religious undertakings is not something that should give any concern, the fact of WHY these thousands of people turned up at the behest of some nonentity of a clairvoyant from the other side of the country, that would surely have a massive vested interest in having thousands of people turn up is a worrying aspect.
> People join cults and perform some pretty bizzare things at the requests of un annointed individuals and I see little difference here.
> If I announced that the virgin mary was gonna appear from the skip I hired in my garden I would be sure I could get enough fools to want to see for themselves to make a pretty penny.
> Its the fact that they went like sheep without reasonable exscuse I find amazing.


 

Posters here watched with bated breath to see if Derren Brown could predict the lotto numbers, even though reasonable thinking would point to the impossibility of this act. Curiousity is a very strong feeling, just ask the cat.


----------



## truthseeker (19 Oct 2009)

MrMan said:


> Posters here watched with bated breath to see if Derren Brown could predict the lotto numbers, even though reasonable thinking would point to the impossibility of this act. Curiousity is a very strong feeling, just ask the cat.


 
Bit of a difference dont you think? Its a known fact that Derren Brown was performing a trick to make it look as though he was predicting the lotto numbers, I dont think any reasonable person thinks he was making an actual prediction - he was just doing a magic trick. And not pretending to be doing anything other than a magic trick.

The clairvoyant in the Knock situation was actually telling people that what was happening was REAL.


----------



## MrMan (19 Oct 2009)

truthseeker said:


> Bit of a difference dont you think? Its a known fact that Derren Brown was performing a trick to make it look as though he was predicting the lotto numbers, I dont think any reasonable person thinks he was making an actual prediction - he was just doing a magic trick. And not pretending to be doing anything other than a magic trick.
> 
> The clairvoyant in the Knock situation was actually telling people that what was happening was REAL.


people can be wowed by things that make no sense, even intelligent people that have no need for such trickery in their world of facts.


----------



## truthseeker (19 Oct 2009)

MrMan said:


> people can be wowed by things that make no sense, even intelligent people that have no need for such trickery in their world of facts.


 
Theres still a world of difference between being wowed by something that is presented as real and being wowed by something that is presented as not real.


----------



## VOR (19 Oct 2009)

MrMan said:


> can you expand on this?


 

Sorry Mr. Man, that was a bit too curt wasn't it?

I have no issue with people believing in God.  Believing in a higher deity is part of most civilisations. This is also true of the after life.

However, when thousands of people are under the same Mayo sky and only a few "believers" see the signs, I have my doubts. 
Firstly, they were there because a clairvoyant told them. I don't believe that nonsense and neither should any Catholic. 

Secondly, they stared at the sun. You'll see light spots and flashing colours if you stare at a 60W light bulb. Does that mean Mary is sending a sign?


----------



## Teatime (19 Oct 2009)

What happened the worship of the treestump that looked like St Mary in Rathkeale? Are Limerick people as nutty as Mayo folk?

Is there anything to be said for another mass?


----------



## Teatime (19 Oct 2009)

legs-akimbo said:


> If I announced that the virgin mary was gonna appear from the skip I hired in my garden I would be sure I could get enough fools to want to see for themselves to make a pretty penny.


 
What *is *in the skip legs? You sound a bit guilty about something to me. I'm watching you...


----------



## Lak (20 Oct 2009)

Special magical beans Teatime !!!, given to me by a leprechaun and a fairy and on a certain date very soon from a pile of blocks and rusty bicycles there will appear an amazing spiritual apparition..........  For further details please send a €100 cheque for specific times and directions, for a mere €50 euro's more I will also share with you all, the mass wealth I have accumalated in a Ugandan bank account


----------



## oldtimer (2 Nov 2009)

Anybody hear the Joe Duffy show to-day. The entire programme given to the guy who is claiming he sees the visions - I think his name is Joe Coleman. Didn't impress me with his negative comments about the Bishop and the person who is responsible for Knock shrine. Am I right in thinking he takes over the Basilica with his ''followers.'' The person responsible for the Basilica stated they left the Basilica in a terrible mess. Isn't it crazy a guy says the Blessed Virgin talks to him, thousands follow him and believe him and they take over Knock. I think he is going back there again in December. No doubt larger numbers of crackpots will turn up.


----------



## Lex Foutish (2 Nov 2009)

I think the whole thing is hilarious! I haven't enjoyed anything as daft as this in ages.  

Having said that, I was walking home from the pub last night and I could have sworn that the moon started dancing in the sky........ Am I the Chosen One in Cork.....or should I not have had that last pint............? 

Anyone interested in hearing the Third Secret of Fatima.............?


----------



## ivuernis (3 Nov 2009)

oldtimer said:


> Anybody hear the Joe Duffy show to-day. The entire programme given to the guy who is claiming he sees the visions - I think his name is Joe Coleman. Didn't impress me with his negative comments about the Bishop and the person who is responsible for Knock shrine. Am I right in thinking he takes over the Basilica with his ''followers.'' The person responsible for the Basilica stated they left the Basilica in a terrible mess. Isn't it crazy a guy says the Blessed Virgin talks to him, thousands follow him and believe him and they take over Knock. I think he is going back there again in December. No doubt larger numbers of crackpots will turn up.



I thought it was pure comedy gold. He showed his true colours when anyone questioned or challenged his views. I felt sorry for him somewhat in that it sounds like he's had his fair share of bad luck but the guy comes across as either a zealot or a charlatan. But I have no sympathy for whatever grief he's now getting because of his claims. Neither do I have any sympathy for the regular "worshippers" at the Knock shrine. They built a monument to a previous delusion and so have brought their own current hassle upon themselves. Sorry if this comes across as crass or cruel but fools the lot of them.


----------



## Chocks away (3 Nov 2009)

Lex Foutish said:


> Anyone interested in hearing the Third Secret of Fatima.............?


Please, pray tell us O Anointed One


----------



## Teatime (3 Nov 2009)

Lex Foutish said:


> Anyone interested in hearing the Third Secret of Fatima.............?


 
Is it about fig rolls?


----------



## Lex Foutish (3 Nov 2009)

I can exclusively reveal that the Third Secret of Fatima is the recipe for the perfect pint of Beamish. 

Why, you may ask, did the Vatican keep it a secret for so long? Well, they were hardly going to make the same mistake twice, given that the recipe for Chateauneuf-du-Pape was leaked, many years ago.

And, as The Keeper of The Third Secret of Fatima, I have to take the job very seriously......

[broken link removed]


----------



## Chocks away (3 Nov 2009)

Aha! Gotcha! Could it be whether you are wearing anything under your kilt? By the way, you've got a fine pair of legs


----------



## Lex Foutish (3 Nov 2009)

Aw, shucks, Chocs! Thanks. I guess that's why some of my friends call me *Legs* Foutish.


----------



## S.L.F (3 Nov 2009)

Lex Foutish said:


> I can exclusively reveal that the Third Secret of Fatima is the recipe for the perfect pint of Beamish.


 
Ah so it was only a myth then


----------



## Lex Foutish (4 Nov 2009)

S.L.F said:


> Ah so it was only a myth then


 
To non-believers like yourself, the truth is often _bitter_...... (Think laterally...)


----------



## Purple (4 Nov 2009)

Lex Foutish said:


> Anyone interested in hearing the Third Secret of Fatima.............?


It's that the first two were made up...


----------



## Purple (4 Nov 2009)

Lex Foutish said:


> To non-believers like yourself, the truth is often _bitter_...... (Think laterally...)



Flavour, that's the word you are trying to think of. Not bitter.


----------



## Latrade (4 Nov 2009)

This is the problem with boom years, we can't see the forest for the trees. We've missed one big opportunity to end the economic crisis and we all got caught up in this "science" fable and scepticism after watching a couple of episodes of mythbusters.

If we'd have all gone down to Knock and sworn blind we'd seen something think of what might have happened:

1. Huge tourism to the area and use of airports (airport tax)
2. Hotels filled, bars filled
3. Retail recovers by selling trinkets, t-shirts, dvds, books, and those fluffly thinks that people stick on computer monitors with the wibbly eyes.
4. Car industry picks up due to increased demand for rentals (plus we could lie and have a few "Knocks" evenly distributed through the country, its not as if the Yanks would figure it out)
5. A round of tv programmes and films where we can have a filming tax.
6. Filming requires investment, the banks could be the investors thus negating the bad debts and making NAMA a huge pile of money.
7. Designation of new planning category of "sacred site" and therefore increased demand for housing in these areas, construction picks up.
8. Need for better roads to get to the place, again construction benefits.

And yet we sat there all smug, sat on our backsides looking down on our noses at the only one of us out there trying to save this country. For shame I say.


----------



## Caveat (4 Nov 2009)

Latrade said:


> 1. Huge tourism to the area and use of airports (airport tax)
> 2. Hotels filled, bars filled
> 3. Retail recovers by selling trinkets, t-shirts, dvds, books, and those fluffly thinks that people stick on computer monitors with the wibbly eyes.
> 4. Car industry picks up due to increased demand for rentals (plus we could lie and have a few "Knocks" evenly distributed through the country, its not as if the Yanks would figure it out)
> ...


 


Are you actually Michael O'Leary?


----------



## Latrade (4 Nov 2009)

Caveat said:


> Are you actually Michael O'Leary?


 
You just made me think of another tax, the non-resident toilet levy. 

Say $1 per visit. Average 3 "visits" (ones and twos) per person, overall €1 million visitors to the region and that's €3 million for nothing. Get the local bars to add syrup of figs or something to all their food and drink and we could double that easily.


----------



## Arabella (4 Nov 2009)

Latrade said:


> You just made me think of another tax, the non-resident toilet levy.
> 
> Say $1 per visit. Average 3 "visits" (ones and twos) per person, overall €1 million visitors to the region and that's €3 million for nothing. Get the local bars to add syrup of figs or something to all their food and drink and we could double that easily.


You are getting dangerously close to a medical/pharmacological discussion


----------



## Chocks away (4 Nov 2009)

purple said:


> it's that the first two were made up...


----------



## Lex Foutish (4 Nov 2009)

Purple said:


> It's that the first two were made up...


 
Heathen!!! Eternal damnation and The Fires of Hell await you!!!!!!


----------



## S.L.F (4 Nov 2009)

Lex Foutish said:


> Heathen!!! Eternal damnation and The Fires of Hell await you!!!!!!


 
Yeah and a pub that sells nothing but Beamish...


----------

