# ARF & AMRF and working past 60



## Daddy (12 Nov 2014)

I think I have this correct: with the new rules from age 61 you have to take minimum 4% from your ARF and you can if you wish take 4% of your AMRF (don't think latter is compulsory).   You pay taxes on the withdrawals at standard/top rate depending which your on.   So if you remain in work past 60 and have to withdraw 4% from the ARF then you pay high taxes on the withdrawal.   Now if like me you hope to cease working at age 60 do you pay no taxes if your income is below a certain limit.   What is that limit ?    Taking e.g 4% of 100k pot in ARF and 4% of AMRF pot of 63.5k gives a total in first year of withdrawal of 
€ 6,540.   I'm on the higher rate of tax so if I continue working I pay taxes of 40% + PRSI/USC and if I stop working do I get to keep the € 6,540 ?   No other income after age 60 but I would have my 25% tax free in a lump sum + my savings to live on up until the O.A.P kicks in when I'm 67.    Thanks.


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## Steven Barrett (12 Nov 2014)

You pay tax under the PAYE system. If you have no other income, have your tax credits assigned to the insurance company and they apply them against your tax liability. 

Depending on which ARF provider you use, you can take out more than the minimum amount each year, or lump sums. 


Steven
www.bluewaterfp.ie


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## Daddy (12 Nov 2014)

Thanks.

So, I could withdraw more than the 4% each year from the ARF  i.e just enough to keep me out of the tax net until I reach the O.A.P age and then reduce it to the 4% minimum if necessary to avoid having to pay tax on it.

The minimum amount is 4% compulsory in the ARF and your saying this can be higher - how much higher ?  It's not mandatory to take anything from the AMRF.  is that correct ?


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## Conan (12 Nov 2014)

You can draw out any amount you wish but subject to meeting the minimum drawdown requirement - 4% from 2015. So yes you could draw out enough to keep your income below the exemption threshold and then revise the amount of drawdown when you become entitled to the State Pension.


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## Daddy (12 Nov 2014)

Thanks to you both.


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## Homer (13 Nov 2014)

You may be able to avoid income tax, but you will be liable for USC on any drawdowns and PRSI will also be payable until you reach State pension age.


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## Steven Barrett (13 Nov 2014)

Daddy said:


> Thanks.
> 
> So, I could withdraw more than the 4% each year from the ARF  i.e just enough to keep me out of the tax net until I reach the O.A.P age and then reduce it to the 4% minimum if necessary to avoid having to pay tax on it.
> 
> The minimum amount is 4% compulsory in the ARF and your saying this can be higher - how much higher ?  It's not mandatory to take anything from the AMRF.  is that correct ?





Conan said:


> You can draw out any amount you wish but subject to meeting the minimum drawdown requirement - 4% from 2015. So yes you could draw out enough to keep your income below the exemption threshold and then revise the amount of drawdown when you become entitled to the State Pension.



You have to be aware of the life company contract structure. Most of the contracts are on a commission structure so the life company are out of pocket. To ensure they recoup their outlay, they limit the amount that can be taken as a regular income for the first 5 years. There are also early exit penalties on any lump sum withdrawals in the first 5 years. 

If you pay the advisor a fee instead, he will be able to get you a structure with no early exit penalties so you can take out as much as you want, whenever you want. You should also get a lower annual management fee, so there is less taken out of your fund in fees each year. 


Steven
www.bluewaterfp.ie


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## Daddy (30 Nov 2014)

Can one take 4% of the AMRF from age 61?   Under old rules could withdraw 100% of the growth in fund from age 61 and the 63,500 could not be touched until age 75.   So, under new rules is it from age 61 it works from.   Thanks.


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## Gervan (30 Nov 2014)

You can withdraw growth in your AMRF before the age of 75. Say your initial €63,500 deposit rises to €80,000, you can draw down some of that. Tax etc applies.


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## Conan (30 Nov 2014)

But the rules will change from Jan 2015.
From then on you will be limited to draw down 4% p.a. irrespective of growth. So if you have growth in the AMRF and you want to draw it down you should do so before the end of 2014.


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## Daddy (30 Nov 2014)

But can I start taking both amrf from age 61 ?


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