# Formatting a hard drive - permanently



## Conshine (4 Dec 2007)

I have an old PC that I am going to get rid of, but I want to ensure the hard disk is clean, as I kept all sorts of personal files on there - CV, Bank stuff etc.

The machine was given to me and it had the C:\ partitioned with a C:\ D:\ & E:\

I booted the machine up - Windows 98
Went to the command prompt
Did Format E:\
Off it went
All OK

Format D:\
Off it went
All OK

C:\ obviously cannot be formatted while in use.
Rebooted
Broke out to the command prompt during boot up - by pressing I think it was F8
Format C:\
Off it went
All OK

My question is have I done enough?
I have read articles and heard talkshows on the radio where sometimes formatting is not enough and people are leaving themselves open to fraud by not realising that they have not done enough to delete their personal data.

Should I just play safe and take a hammer to the HD?


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## jhegarty (4 Dec 2007)

Conshine said:


> My question is have I done enough?





No , I could have all your data back in 10 minutes..... as for a hammer , do you have any plans for the hard drive ?


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## Conshine (4 Dec 2007)

Really? How would you get the data back in 10 mins?

How would one format the drive permanently?

I have no plans for the HD, was going to try and get a few quid for the whole box, but following your comment, I think I will sell it without.


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## car (4 Dec 2007)

Take your pick of software listed here to recover, try this site for links on sort-of-permanently deleting.  As you'll find mentioned on several sites, its next to impossible to permanently delete a file short of using the hammer approach but you can make it pretty difficult.


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## Conshine (4 Dec 2007)

Thank you Car - I knew there were people that dispose of their machines without deleting their files or leave them in the computers recycle bin, but I thought formatting was the way to delete the lot.
How wrong I was!

Would you recommend Claw, Lump or Sledge?


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## ClubMan (4 Dec 2007)

[broken link removed]


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## car (4 Dec 2007)

> Would you recommend Claw, Lump or Sledge?


 I once saw a video of a Data Recovery guy in the states who was set a challenge to recover data from a disk.  The disk was taken from PC, been bashed to pieces with a sledge hammer, then put onto a fire until charred remains were left.  The guy used some tool to read the disk platter and managed to build files.   
There are recommended ways to do what you want permanently,  none of them easy, and I'd say slightly more expensive then hoping for the best when you throw it out in pieces in the bin over several weeks.


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## ClubMan (4 Dec 2007)

Secure erase software tools are effective for most practical purposes. You should not really need to physically destroy the disk unless you are particularly paranoid. And it would be a waste if somebody else could recycle the working hardware.


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## car (4 Dec 2007)

Sorry CM, just seen your first post now,  and yes Id agree, that linked shredder and others like it will do the job for all practical intents and purposes.    

_Conshine_, If the disk had only home data on it, I would suggest not destroying and using that shredder _clubman_ links to.


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## Conshine (4 Dec 2007)

Thanks for the suggested apps to wipe the drive - I iwll give them a try!

Before I formatted the machine, I took everything I needed off it.
I didnt have too many files I would be concerned about, but now, thinking about it, if everything I had on the machine over the years is recoverable, its more worrying.

I had some scans of things like passports and other important documents and ID's. At one stage I kept all my user names and passwords to various websites in a text file - yes, including bank accounts, until that became a bad thing to do. So I "deleted" them
I had databases of all my contacts, and various financial transactions. Although I moved them off the machine, they are no doubt still there.

IMO, the Delete button should be called something else!


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## aircobra19 (4 Dec 2007)

car said:


> I once saw a video of a Data Recovery guy in the states who was set a challenge to recover data from a disk.  The disk was taken from PC, been bashed to pieces with a sledge hammer, then put onto a fire until charred remains were left.  The guy used some tool to read the disk platter and managed to build files. ...



I'd like to see that. I don't believe you can recover from a smashed platter.


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## car (4 Dec 2007)

> I'd like to see that. I don't believe you can recover from a smashed platter.


 If the platter is from a laptop hard drive then the platter will more then likely be made of glass, if the glass shatters then no recovery is possible.  However, PC hard drives platters are mostly made from metal, and data can be recovered off them.    Or so Ive read.

I'll have a look later to see if I can find that vid, its been a few years.


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## aircobra19 (4 Dec 2007)

car said:


> If the platter is from a laptop hard drive then the platter will more then likely be made of glass, if the glass shatters then no recovery is possible.  However, PC hard drives platters are mostly made from metal, and data can be recovered off them.    Or so Ive read.
> 
> I'll have a look later to see if I can find that vid, its been a few years.



Even if the metal platter is "smashed"


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## car (4 Dec 2007)

> Even if the metal platter is "smashed"


I cant remember how "smashed" it was despite me saying "to pieces" earlier,  I dont think it was shattered like a glass platter would be but I do remember thinking it was badly dented alright as you'd imagine after someone took a sledgehammer to it, but whatever hardware the guy had, he was able to read a piece of the mag strip and hence rebuilt a single file, just to prove the point that it could be done.    

I only recall the message of the program which were a disk, a sledgehammer, a fire and a guy who got some data back.   AFAIR it was on a tech show that used to be on saturday mornings on one of the satellite channels, NBC maybe.

Theres some good stuff on youtube if you put in "hard drive recovery" if anyones interested on how bad a disk can be damaged but still be recoverable.


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## aircobra19 (4 Dec 2007)

Well if you find some good links I'd be interested in seeing them.


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## ClubMan (4 Dec 2007)

Interesting and all as that stuff is the chances of somebody going to the trouble of recovering an individual's data from a securely erased drive never mind one that has been physically damaged are surely slim?


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## zag (4 Dec 2007)

Zags first law of digitalology was formulated a long time ago and still holds true - it states that if something is digital it can be copied and retrieved no matter how hard the boffins try to protect it.  Until we start getting into some majorly weird electronics you will always be able to reverse engineer what someone has done to hide or obfuscte their data.

However, once you start leaving the electronic world and enter the physical world (i.e. introduce a hammer, a stanley knife, a stone) many bets are off.  If you break the parts of the hardware (i.e. the platter) apart sufficiently then while technically you can still reverse engineer or recover the data on it, you face a much more significant problem in physically re-assembling the bits of the platter so that it can be read.  Also, with every break in the media you lose some data integrity (assuming you can ever get it back together) so with enough breaks you lose too much integrity to be able to recover anything meaningful.

Of course someone will come along and say - "Aha, but I just recovered the bit 1 and the bit 0 from this disk which has been smashed, burned and dropped from an airplane."  This may well be so, but a 1 and 0 do not a file make.

Take it from me - if you want to be mostly sure your old drive is safe from prying eyes then take a hammer to it, stick one part in one bin, wait till it is collected, then stick the other part in the bin (or a different bin).  Unless the CIA are after you in a big way you should be safe.

z


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## RMCF (4 Dec 2007)

HDDs cost so little these days that your best bet is probably to take it out and physically destroy it, and then replace it with a new one.


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## aircobra19 (5 Dec 2007)

I think the chances of the average joe needing to do anything beyond running securely erasing software are slim.


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## ClubMan (5 Dec 2007)

aircobra19 said:


> I think the chances of the average joe needing to do anything beyond running securely erasing software are slim.


Me too.


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## car (5 Dec 2007)

> Me too.


..and me.  

Watch the BBC vid half way down.


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## ClubMan (5 Dec 2007)

car said:


> ..and me.
> 
> Watch the BBC vid half way down.


_"This is the clean room at OnTrack" _he says as he and the other bloke are there in their civvies with the door open! That's not a clean room. Probably made by the _Horizon _team who churn out all that other inaccurate/pseudo-scuence rubbish...


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## zag (5 Dec 2007)

I also agree that running drive wiping software (assuming it is any good) is fine for most purposes.

I was just pointing out in my earlier post that given enough time and energy almost anything digital can be recovered (even after most drive wiping software has been run) because of the nature of the media.  The only sure way to destroy the data is to physically disassemble the media and damage it in such a way that it cannot be physically reassembled.  But if you are going to that level of trouble then chances are that you have backups somewhere which are a lot easier to compromise than the disk is to reassemble.

z


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## ClubMan (5 Dec 2007)

zag said:


> I was just pointing out in my earlier post that given enough time and energy almost anything digital can be recovered (even after most drive wiping software has been run) because of the nature of the media.


I don't disagree with that. But in most cases the time and energy that those with nefarious intent would spend on recovering data from _Jo Bloggs' _securely erased hard disk is surely quite limited.


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