# Costs of Oil Heating



## Butter (13 Apr 2014)

Hi all, I'd appreciate some information. I currently have mains gas to heat my house, which costs up to €150 a month on average over the year. 

I'm currently debating purchasing a house with oil-central heating. The house is about 2500sq ft. Someone told me yesterday that since Nov they have paid €4000 for oil for a similar sized house. I must admit I was astounded. 

Can anyone give me an idea of heating costs with an oil boiler? I feel the cold & do use my heating a lot! This could be a make-or-break cost for whether I actually go for the new house or not. 

Would really love to hear your thoughts.


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## emeralds (13 Apr 2014)

We have oil. Two years ago we replaced the 17 year old boiler with a highly efficient A rated condenser boiler. It has paid for itself already. We are using half the oil we did before. We also replaced the 100 year old draughty single glazed sash windows with double glazed version of same. Huge improvement. And we ramped up the attic insulation. Check the age of the boiler and the other insulation situations in the house. 
Our house is 4 bedrooms and is approx 1800 sq feet. Since November we have paid €1,100 for oil. And it was on for a reasonable amount of time during the winter months.


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## Butter (13 Apr 2014)

emeralds said:


> We have oil. Two years ago we replaced the 17 year old boiler with a highly efficient A rated condenser boiler. It has paid for itself already. We are using half the oil we did before. We also replaced the 100 year old draughty single glazed sash windows with double glazed version of same. Huge improvement. And we ramped up the attic insulation. Check the age of the boiler and the other insulation situations in the house.
> Our house is 4 bedrooms and is approx 1800 sq feet. Since November we have paid €1,100 for oil. And it was on for a reasonable amount of time during the winter months.



Thanks for the reply emeralds. The boiler is in since the house was built 16years ago. It's a boiler in a range (I confess - I have zero experience with this set-up). I did say to my husband that maybe the answer is a new more efficient boiler. Do you mind me asking what that new boiler cost? 
There are already a number of things about this house that are giving us pause for thought - it needs quite a bit of work. A potentially huge oil bill seemed one problem too many!


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## thelimit (13 Apr 2014)

cant see any one using 4k per year of oil in a average family house, 
insulation is the way and really not to difficult to do
Grant Vortex is prob the best oil boiler on the market 

can you list the work the proposed house needs


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## Sue Ellen (13 Apr 2014)

Am I right in thinking that the BER should give you some indication of the work necessary?


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## salaried (14 Apr 2014)

Like emeralds we put in a condensed boiler and had our tank cleaned out,  We then switched to kerosene oil and the difference in cost is huge,  The new boiler has paid for itself in the three years we have had it, It cost 1400.00 euro , I have heard horror stories regarding the cost of gas,  We live in a three bed semi and would probably get four months for 700 litres costing 578.00 euro.


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## Butter (14 Apr 2014)

Thanks for the replies. I'm a bit more reassured than I was when I heard €4000 in four months on oil! 

The house is BER C1. I never thought about asking for the BER Cert to see what has been mentioned (Doh!) but I'm going to do that today. 
The other work needed includes putting in a family bathroom, rearranging the kitchen (temporarily), but eventually replacing it, sorting out a "design feature" that doesn't really work, all new carpets & fitted wardrobes & we're a bit worried about signs of water ingress in an extension - which an engineers report should help us with. We've only bought new-builds in the past though so this is all new to us. 

thelimit - what type of insulation would help do you think? My sister has recently bought an old house & has basically gutted it inside & spent a lot of money to get the insulation up to scratch. I definitely don't want to end up in that situation.


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## thelimit (14 Apr 2014)

Hi Butter

i've done the same as your sister then gutted the place, well it was due a upgrade i've even put in the foil with vapor barrier, cant remember the exact insulation i used but it was 58e a roll german make but it was also sound-proofing
i've had the cavitys pumped /windows resealed and handles changed 
installed 2 stoves in open fireplace and planning to build a 3rd chimney for a solid fuel boiler stove 
all takes time and money  but i do 70% of the work myself and trawl sites for bargains


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## Butter (14 Apr 2014)

Thanks for the reply thelimit. It does sound like you've both done similarly big jobs. She was left with just the basic external walls of the house at one stage. All plaster & all floors gone! Not sure I can face all that!

Being able to do a lot of it yourself is a major advantage.


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## Leo (14 Apr 2014)

salaried said:


> I have heard horror stories regarding the cost of gas



Gas is considerably cheaper than oil (gas oil or kerosene). The cost of delivered energy per kWh for oil is ~10c, for gas, it's ~7c, so oil is 40% more expensive for the same quantity of delivered heat energy. 

Any horror stories in terms of oil or gas are going to be down to local conditions such as poor installation, poor insulation, or an inefficient boiler.


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## Butter (15 Apr 2014)

Leo said:


> Gas is considerably cheaper than oil (gas oil or kerosene). The cost of delivered energy per kWh for oil is ~10c, for gas, it's ~7c, so oil is 40% more expensive for the same quantity of delivered heat energy.
> 
> Any horror stories in terms of oil or gas are going to be down to local conditions such as poor installation, poor insulation, or an inefficient boiler.



That is a very helpful comparison, thank you Leo. So even if all things were equal changing from gas to oil will increase my heating costs by about 40%. Add in an older, bigger house & an older boiler & I can add substantially to that 40% increase. Food for thought! 

I may never complain about my gas bill again ;-)


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## Leo (15 Apr 2014)

Butter said:


> That is a very helpful comparison, thank you Leo. So even if all things were equal changing from gas to oil will increase my heating costs by about 40%. Add in an older, bigger house & an older boiler & I can add substantially to that 40% increase. Food for thought!
> 
> I may never complain about my gas bill again ;-)



Exactly, to heat the same building, with all conditions remaining equal, will be more expensive.

There are lots of ways of cutting down costs within a building, improving insulation, improving air-tightness/ eliminating draughts, selective heating of occupied rooms, etc.. The range of solutions here go from very cheap to prohibitively expensive, so you need to assess each and every option and make a call based on return-on-investment.


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## Butter (15 Apr 2014)

Leo said:


> Exactly, to heat the same building, with all conditions remaining equal, will be more expensive.
> 
> There are lots of ways of cutting down costs within a building, improving insulation, improving air-tightness/ eliminating draughts, selective heating of occupied rooms, etc.. The range of solutions here go from very cheap to prohibitively expensive, so you need to assess each and every option and make a call based on return-on-investment.



And therein lies my problem. I don't know what the current costs are or how much I can reduce them by by doing work. 
I've seen the BER Cert which rates the house C1 but quite frankly seems totally generic - a copy and paste job that could apply to hundreds of houses. It leaves me none the wiser as to whether buying a particular house will increase my heating bill from about €1800 a year to €4,000 or more. 

For the BER to have any real value it would need to tell you average energy consumption for a particular house for a year - based on average family size & heating a house to 20 degrees over x months of the year. There would still be a margin of error but it would give insight into actual costs. Washing machines are sold with yearly energy & water consumption levels to allow for comparisons, after all! Doing similar for houses would make a BER Cert meaningful.


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## thelimit (15 Apr 2014)

agree on the ber cert it tell's nothing 

have you had the house surveyed that should be able to pinpoint a few issues to start with,


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## Butter (15 Apr 2014)

It's a bit of a catch 22 situation. Estate agent says to hold off until an offer is accepted (subject to survey) then get the report done. I suppose if it's a disaster then we could still pull out but I feel a bit like we're offering money to buy a house with blindfolds on. Probably how everyone feels though. 

I grew up in a freezing cold bungalow back in the 80s. Not keen on repeating those cold days huddled over the electric bar heater in the bedroom at night & the kitchen in the morning. Have visions of us putting pyjamas on in front of the stove and tearing up to a cold bedroom like something from Little House on the Prairie.


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## Leo (16 Apr 2014)

Butter said:


> For the BER to have any real value it would need to tell you average energy consumption for a particular house for a year - based on average family size & heating a house to 20 degrees over x months of the year. There would still be a margin of error but it would give insight into actual costs. Washing machines are sold with yearly energy & water consumption levels to allow for comparisons, after all! Doing similar for houses would make a BER Cert meaningful.



But that's exactly what BERs do! Take a look at the SEAI [broken link removed]. For a C1 house, you're looking at around €11/sq m per annum heating costs. So for a 2500 sq ft / 232 sq m house, that's €2,552 pa.

As you say, BERs are a bit generic, so you'll need to take a good look around and form an opinion yourself, or hire a competent surveyor, but they're a good starting point.


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## wednesday (16 Apr 2014)

I think I'd be sitting in a corner crying if my heating bill was €150 average a month

I pay my oil by monthly d/d €67 a month and last year was the 1st year that my annual bill exceeded this repayment - so I paid separately for €150 worth - This brought my annual spend to just under €1000.

To be fair though...I am mean with heating and try not to turn on till late September/early October. Heating is currently off and unless we have a really cold snap, it won't be on again until the autumn. 1600sq ft, 4 beds, and someone home all day.


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## Shane007 (16 Apr 2014)

40% higher for kerosene over natural gas is al little off the mark.
Currently 1,000 litres of kerosene is €810.00 so the calorific value of kerosene is 9.8kwh/litre thus giving a cost of 7.9 cent per kwh.
Natural gas is currently 6.6 cent per kwh so only a difference of 16.5%.

However, modern gas boilers will modulate their output to suit the current demand of the system, this using the exact amount of fuel to suit the demand, whereas an oil boiler can only deliver all or nothing, thus over-firing consistently.


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## Billo (17 Apr 2014)

wednesday said:


> This brought my annual spend to just under €1000.



I am just as mean as wednesday and I reckon that heating for past winter was less than €1000 also. mainly kerosene €820 for 1000 litres and some coal and electric. 4 bed semi.


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## demoivre (17 Apr 2014)

Insulation is what's it's all about and that's the first thing I would look at in a house. If you have draughts/open fires in your house no heating system will be efficient imo - no different to driving along in your car with the heating on and the window open.


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## Daithim (18 Apr 2014)

And change your thermostats to smart ones. Also put thermostats on your rads. I have both of above and find the great.   The rad thermostats create another heating zone also. So you can have upstairs on seperate to downstairs etc.


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## Butter (24 Apr 2014)

Leo said:


> But that's exactly what BERs do! Take a look at the SEAI [broken link removed]. For a C1 house, you're looking at around €11/sq m per annum heating costs. So for a 2500 sq ft / 232 sq m house, that's €2,552 pa.
> 
> As you say, BERs are a bit generic, so you'll need to take a good look around and form an opinion yourself, or hire a competent surveyor, but they're a good starting point.



It's partly my own fault for critiquing the BER negatively but not really looking into the background on the seai website. That's good info Leo, thanks. 

I've been investigating surveyors - some seem to have a long exclusion list of what they don't look at - but I assume they will look at certain things like heating if its specified at the outset?


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## Butter (24 Apr 2014)

wednesday said:


> I think I'd be sitting in a corner crying if my heating bill was €150 average a month
> 
> I pay my oil by monthly d/d €67 a month and last year was the 1st year that my annual bill exceeded this repayment - so I paid separately for €150 worth - This brought my annual spend to just under €1000.
> 
> To be fair though...I am mean with heating and try not to turn on till late September/early October. Heating is currently off and unless we have a really cold snap, it won't be on again until the autumn. 1600sq ft, 4 beds, and someone home all day.



I think I've overestimated what my bills actually are - it was approx €130 a month over the Jan/Feb/March so it's probably more like a €100 a month or less on average. 

I hate being cold though! 

Are there certain companies who allow a dd payment for oil? That would be useful if you have the name of the company you use?  Thanks!


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## Butter (24 Apr 2014)

Shane007 said:


> 40% higher for kerosene over natural gas is al little off the mark.
> Currently 1,000 litres of kerosene is €810.00 so the calorific value of kerosene is 9.8kwh/litre thus giving a cost of 7.9 cent per kwh.
> Natural gas is currently 6.6 cent per kwh so only a difference of 16.5%.
> 
> However, modern gas boilers will modulate their output to suit the current demand of the system, this using the exact amount of fuel to suit the demand, whereas an oil boiler can only deliver all or nothing, thus over-firing consistently.



Thanks Shane007. So even if I were to replace the boiler with a new high-efficiency one it won't be as effective as a gas boiler? Are there any types/makes of boilers that you'd recommend?


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## Butter (24 Apr 2014)

Thanks for all the replies everyone. I've been spoiled by being on mains gas for the last 14 years & have forgotten anything I ever knew about oil boilers & heating - which wasn't a lot in the first place! I appreciate the opinions & advice!


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## Leo (25 Apr 2014)

Butter said:


> I've been investigating surveyors - some seem to have a long exclusion list of what they don't look at - but I assume they will look at certain things like heating if its specified at the outset?



Yeah, some will just do a quick scan through the property just doing a box-ticking exercise to get you an indicative rating, others will be more thorough. You'll need to be clear exactly what you're looking for when talking to them and get the specifics of exactly what they will do. To assess the quality/efficiency of an installed heating system though, you might be best going to someone who works on them for a living, an OFTEC registered engineer for oil.


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## wednesday (25 Apr 2014)

> Are there certain companies who allow a dd payment for oil? That would be useful if you have the name of the company you use?


I use Jones Oil their easy payment scheme is well handy


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## Butter (8 May 2014)

Thanks Leo & Wednesday for the help & info.


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## demoivre (8 May 2014)

wednesday said:


> I use Jones Oil their easy payment scheme is well handy



But they might not be the cheapest when you come to order the oil !! Put the money aside each month and when you need to order oil check the likes of cheapestoil for the best deals. I wouldn't tie myself to one supplier !!


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## Butter (8 May 2014)

That's a useful site demoivre. I guess it takes a little more discipline to put aside the money yourself but it's certainly the best way to do it. One thing that site makes clear though is there is very little price differential between any of the suppliers. A quick look around showed a saving of around €15 on 1,000 litres.


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