# Working full time with baby 280 a week-worth it?



## buzybee (15 Feb 2010)

I have a baby and work full time in the civil service.  I am 38 yrs old and moved to civil service 3 yrs ago cos of family friendly etc.  

I am on gross 460 a week, by the time I pay childcare I take home 280 for a five day week.  If I did 4 days I would prob have 220 a week.  I have very early starts by the time baby up and bag packed.  I also park 10 mins walk away from work (to save the cost of 20 Euro a week city centre parking).  40 min commute including the walk.  

DH earns about 50K in another civil service type job.  We have a small mortgage.  I have another house, that I have let out, and a small mortgage on that.  (owe 60K, house worth 150K).   

I would love to go on 4 day week, just to be able to keep on top of housework, shopping etc, and have a little free time.

I find the daily routine tough enough when I am well, but very hard when I get colds/flu, and these can linger on.

How do I justify a 4 day week to DH?  I really want to keep working but I didn't realise that full time work would be such a scramble for very little money, and having very little free time and quality of life.

Would you think it is better to continue at 5 days and not to leave the extra 60 a week after me?


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## liaconn (15 Feb 2010)

If you went on a four day week would you be able to reduce your childcare costs? This could be a way of persuading your husband that it's a good idea. Also, if you're at home one day a week you might be able to get better organised re shopping, cooking food for the freezer etc which would also save some money.


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## buzybee (15 Feb 2010)

The 220 Euro a week is what I would be taking home if I worked 4 days and had the reduced 4/5 childcare costs.   

We are already organised regarding cooking at home etc.  DH gets home at 5.15 and starts cooking a dinner each evening.  Then me and baby get home at 5.30 or a little later.  I feed baby and we eat dinner at 6.  We keep some dinner for baby for the following day.  I make up fruit cups for baby every few days as well.  

Also because my wages are so low, I am careful not to squander money and end up with even less to show each week for my efforts.  I bring all my own food to work, and park (in a free place) 10 mins walk away from work. 

What I find hard are the early starts.  I must get up so early and have so many things to pack, that I have very little evening time. Bed by 10, up at 6.15 am. I need to be at my desk at 8.30 am to get enough time worked up to leave reasonably early in the evenings, and I also try and work up a day each month (for emergencies)  If I had a 4 day week, I would not have to work up a day each month so the working days would be a little shorter.  I would have a little more free time each week.  

What I am asking is :  if other ppl had DH earning 50K and were earning my salary, would they think it worthwhile to do the 5 days to get the extra 60 Euro a week, or would they think it better to do the 4 days and have more quality of life?  DH pointed out that the 60 Euro would pay for most of my week's shopping.  (I go to all supermarkets and discount stores on Sat morn to get best value, in shops at 9.30am)


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## liaconn (15 Feb 2010)

To me it sounds like an awful lot of extra work for €60. If you can manage without that money I would certainly opt for the four day week. The one thing I noticed, however, is that you already seem to have cutback as much as you possibly can on expenditure so are you sure there's any more 'give'. If there is I would say 'go for it'. One word of caution though. If you opt for a four day week now in the Civil Service and something happened where you wanted to go back full time (eg another pay cut) you would probably find it nearly impossible to get your fifth day back. I know of lots of people who tried to come back fulltime after the levies and paycuts and were told 'no.'


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## truthseeker (15 Feb 2010)

buzybee said:


> What I am asking is : if other ppl had DH earning 50K and were earning my salary, would they think it worthwhile to do the 5 days to get the extra 60 Euro a week, or would they think it better to do the 4 days and have more quality of life? DH pointed out that the 60 Euro would pay for most of my week's shopping. (I go to all supermarkets and discount stores on Sat morn to get best value, in shops at 9.30am)


 
You cant put a price on quality of life and by the sounds of things you are not enjoying life at the moment, under the current circumstances.

I think you should do the 4 day week - so long as it doesnt put you under financial strain elsewhere.

Could your DH take over some of the early starts during the week to give you a break (get baby up, dressed, fed, packed for creche - leaving you to only get yourself up, dressed and fed?)


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## Purple (15 Feb 2010)

At the risk of sounding like one of the four Yorkshire men from the Monty Python sketch, I’d love to have as much free time as you and your husband have.
I get home at 6.30-7.00 three days a week, 9.00 one day and 5.30 on Friday. I start at 8.00 each morning. I do all the cooking, usually at the weekends, as well as the shopping, usually at 10pm on Thursday night in Tesco. My wife works much longer hours, including two nights a week (on top of her 5 days, three full and two half) and she does the swimming/ afterschool runs during the week. 
We have no option of working up extra days etc and my wife is self employed so no paid holidays or sick days and no top-up maternity payments (that’s why she’s only taken 4-8 weeks maternity leave for our 4 kids). I’m posting this as a long winded way of saying I know where you are coming from, not to play the martyr; we all have choices and we’ve made ours.  

That said we are both on good incomes and if I was in your position I would definitely go for the four day week.


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## buzybee (15 Feb 2010)

I am 38 now and I always said to myself that I would like to reduce hours a little when I was older, baby was in school.   If I did the 4 day week, I know that I would not want to go back to the 5 day week again.

Regarding pension, even if I work full time til I'm 65, I will still only have 30 yrs service.  If I stay on Clerical Officer scale, I know I would only get about 40 or 50 Euros more a week than the Social welfare pension.  Therefore pension is not the motivating factor for working full time.

I feel a small bit guilty and lazy for wanting to work only 4 days when I only have one baby.  However, as I am 38 now I don't know if/when no. 2 might come along.   If no. 2 never comes along, I really don't want to be stuck working a 5 day week all the time. 

I took no unpaid mat leave, as I talked it over with DH and I would prefer a month off unpaid in the summer.  Now DH is saying that I should see if I can keep all my hols and get 2 or 2.5 weeks off together instead.

Regarding 'needing' the money, I feel that I am only working full time to be able to show that I am not lazy or soft.  I already have 40K savings as well as a house( worked my a** off for years in a professional job).  We have very little outgoings (don't drink, rarely go out, not into clothes, own our cars outright). 

I just feel a bit annoyed that I have worked so hard for years to secure a future, and I am 38 and still feel that I need to work v. hard.  Wouldnt mind if I was earning very good money, but is the extra 60 Euro a week really worth it.


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## stephnyc (15 Feb 2010)

buzybee - excuse my armchair psychology.. but it sounds as if you already know that you want to work 4 days, but you dont have your partners support and are looking for reasons to convince him? apologies if this is not the case

IMHO I would move to 4 days as well, as long as it was affordable


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## InfoSeeker (15 Feb 2010)

Buzybee, we made a similar decision recently to the one that you are thinking about at the moment.

Personally, I think you should jump at the chance that you could work a 4 day week.

Quality of life is paramount IMHO and you should certainly not feel guilty or lazy. If you feel better about yourself then it will only result in a better environment for everyone in your home.

My wife (who earns more than myself) went on a 4 day week recently & I think it is a great decision. Also, re feeling guilty & lazy, then anyone who thinks this should spend a few weeks all day (ie 24hrs) with a 7 month old

This is a generalistion but I have a fair few qualifications & have worked in different areas & looking after a young baby all day everyday is as tough as any of the roles that I had....no doubt there will be a load of smart replies re this!!


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## Padraigb (15 Feb 2010)

Echoing what stephnyc says, can I propose that you ask a different question: how can your husband justify to you that you should work 5 days a week?

If you think that is a fair question to ask, then we in AAM should step aside, because relationship counselling is not what we do here.


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## rosey (15 Feb 2010)

Agree with Stephnyc...you already seem convinced it's a sensible idea- it seems your partner is the one not convinced...
To be honest you both sound to be comfortable enough in your financial circumstances and for the sake of €60 more for a day off- I think you are mad not to go for the 4 day week- that you have the option of a better quality of life for you- and probably by extension your child and partner- for €60 a week..if this is something you'd like- which is clear from your comments then I think you should expect the support of your partner.
Personally, I think your partner is not being very kind to you in regards to this and I think this is what you want to hear from an outsider. If things are as you say, then I think your partner is being at the very least thoughtless and even selfish.


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## Timmore (15 Feb 2010)

To try out the 4 day week without fully committing yourself to reduced hours forever could you ask to see if you could take the 1 day per week out of your parental leave entitlement?


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## annR (15 Feb 2010)

I agree with the other posters.  You already know that you want to have the 4 days and you have that opportunity to take them.  You know you have nothing to feel guilty/lazy about.  

I could write a big email about the pros and cons but basically there comes a point where you have to take responsibility for your own health and happiness.  Get it straight with your husband whether you need the money or not (even if it takes a full review of long term goals).  Either way, work something out - be it the 4 days or the 5 days but with some extra help in the mornings.  Whatever it is it has to be something which works for you, and helps you keep going (and not out of guilt or fear of looking lazy).  Your husband should be helping you look after yourself - your health is your wealth.  You won't be much of a team when you collapse from exhaustion.


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## moneygrower (15 Feb 2010)

Tell him you're thinking of a three day week. Really racing around with a small person is no fun and if you can manage financially on four days then go for it. Will your husband benefit tax wise by you earning less?
I work a three day week and one unpaid with my husband. His income is way down with the recession but for the sanity it is worth it.


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## Firefly (15 Feb 2010)

I would work 4 days a week and sell your other house i.e. "invest" the 90k profit in yourself and your child.


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## ali1971 (15 Feb 2010)

I would go for the 4 day week.  You sound financially secure and it's lovely to be able to spend the time with them when they are so little.  I am taking parental leave at present, about 7 hrs a week and find it a great help, am 38 also, with a two year old.  Hubbie looks after our child when I work and our income is about 48,000/year total.   I just think I may not be around in 20 years so enjoy and cherish your family when you can.


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## buzybee (16 Feb 2010)

Tks re comments about DH getting LO ready in the mornings.  I get LO ready and pack a bag. Then DH takes her to minder.  At least this means I have a straight run into work in the car.  Need to be at desk at 8.30 am to get hours worked up for flexi and to get home at reasonable time.

I intend to try and work up the flexi every month, and also take a day hols every month as well to ease situation.   This means I will have a 4 day week, every second week.  There are also some bank hols coming up in first half of year. Then for our summer hols (when minder closes) I can take 2 or 3 wks unpaid leave.  I wouldn't mind taking couple of weeks unpaid leave in one go, as I could save up for it.  

I find it is nearly easier to take 2 or 4 wks unpaid in one go, and then have the appearance of working full time (while quietly using my hols), than to have a formal arrangement of a day off every week. Also my relations could ask me to do chores etc if they thought I was off every week.   I don't mind helping out, but I would hate to take unpaid leave and have to help out.


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## annR (17 Feb 2010)

Buzybee if you did take the 4 days I'm sure you have other plans made rather than doing chores for your relations (unless they're in dire need or something).


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## BONDGIRL (21 Feb 2010)

Free time = priceless.
When I went back  to work after my baby I asked for 4 day week they wouldnt give it to me..
#i found 5 days draining and never got to see baby. So GO FOR IT.
To be honest, I wouldnt have to sell it much to my DP, I would just say I will be happier all round and that is what would buy it!


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## moneygrower (21 Feb 2010)

holy cow buzybee are you protestant or something??? Why on earth would you're family think you are available to do chores because you have one day at home with your little one and have your own chores to catch up on? It's hardly a day in bed eating chocs and watching oprah!
Good luck with your plan, I find it very hard to build up flexi time, in fact impossible, because I'm always trying to spend as much time as possible at home. You may be better organised than me though.


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## liaconn (22 Feb 2010)

moneygrower said:


> holy cow buzybee are you protestant or something??? Why on earth would you're family think you are available to do chores because you have one day at home with your little one and have your own chores to catch up on? It's hardly a day in bed eating chocs and watching oprah!


 
People do though.
 'Oh, you're off on Fridays aren't you. Would you be able to give me a lift to Homebase to collect a new locker I've bought for the spare room?'

'You couldn't collect the kids from school and hang on to them for half an hour? I'm after getting delayed at the dentist and won't be home until two'.

I know this is also a problem for people who work from home and are deemed to be 'available' for requests for lifts etc.


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## sadie (22 Feb 2010)

Why don't you just give up working and be a full-time parent?
It sounds like you don't need the money. And sounds like you don't enjoy the job much at the moment.


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## buzybee (24 Feb 2010)

Not protestant but our family have a v strong work ethic.  You always have to be seen to 'be DOING something'.  Mother still works full time, father a farmer.  You could never sit inside and watch TV of a fine summer evening.  You would have to be out doing something, or weeding if there was nothing else to do.   I particularly resented this when I was in my early 20s and working.  I felt that when I was finished work, and when the necessary household tasks were done, my time should be my own.   I used to love when it was raining & the winter evenings cos I would get a rest and we could just do inside tasks/watch TV

I don't want the appearance of working part time cos my father always has a job for everyone.  I could have to help with some of the farm work, or go to town to collect something.  Our house is only over the road from theirs so they can see the car.  Also they can be quite scornful of someone with only one child choosing to work less hours, and think that I am wasteful and lazy.  If there is a euro to be made, one should be seen to go after it.

I think it better to take an odd day/half day here and there, and not to have a certain day off every week.  If they think you are doing nothing or heavens above enjoying yourself, they will find something for you to do.

I wouldn't mind helping out if I had no job, but I would hate to give up a day of work, be earning less money and not even having the free time to show for it.

I hope to look for the 2 wks summer parental leave (when creche is closed).  This will mean that I can keep most of the 20 days hols for if LO is unwell, or to take a stray day off here and there.

I find it OK to work up flexi time, but I have to be up and out early in morning.  Am at work at 8.30, take half hour for lunch, leaving work before 5.   I feel I have to be v disciplined regarding only taking half hour for lunch.  I don't have the opportunity to work up loads of flexi in one day as I have to be out of work before 5.


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## MandaC (24 Feb 2010)

You are being way too hard on yourself.  There is no way you should feel wasteful or lazy for wanting some free time.

I am single and have no children and still make sure I have enough time off.  It is all about choices, there are times I stay late in the office (I like my job) but I make sure I have enough time off as well.  I actually left a job because the long commute and long hours were making me miserable and just thought cant do this, wont do this.

Also, while I love my 2 little nieces, I make sure I am not dumped upon as babysitter and am not afraid to say no there either.  There is a bit of looking after my mam and dad, both separated and elderly, have to be brought shopping Saturdays and such like, but still.

What is LO, by the way?

You dont need to account for your time to your family and should not feel guilty in that regard.


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## Vanilla (24 Feb 2010)

Now is exactly the time you should be either looking for a career break, parental leave, part-time, short-time or whatever package it comes in.

You have a baby, for the next few years any time you can spend with them is precious. Before you know it, they will be going to school, and then it will be one great speeding train until they no longer need you or want to spend time with you.

I work four days now and find it great. It really breaks up the week. Now that mine are school going also it means that I have some idea what goes on there, I feel involved. I get so much done on my day off that the weekends are much easier. And actually if you work a four day week, that is still considered full time, so if it were me I might not necessarily feel disposed to declaring a change in status to the world ( or family if they were disapproving, although mine aren't at all).

I feel fresh when I am working, I am motivated- I get to the office early and work well, I get through more work than other people who work full time. In fact, at the moment I am doing the work of 2.5 people ( it's complicated) and do not feel overly stretched. Yes, I'm busy, but I like that. 

There is still no 'me time' as some people call it, as I have much to do on my day 'off' but I have to say I am happier and more relaxed. I think once you become a parent, if your child is happier, you are too. And more time spent with you means they are happier.


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## txirimiri (24 Feb 2010)

How can anyone think that looking after a small baby counts as being ´lazy´? How can spending time with your own child during their precious and fleeting babyhood be ¨wasteful´? Why are you having to even think of justifying being 60 quid down a week to your hubby when you have savings of 60 grand? Let your parents think what they like, let them grumble when they ´find things for you to do´and get a firm ´no, I can´t do that, I am taking the baby to mother and toddler group/for a walk/playground/reading to her/snuggling up for a nap with her´. You and your hubby are your own nuclear family now, your parent´s opinions of what you do with your time are irrelevant. You are on a combined income of nearly 90 grand, you have significant equity in another property, you have fantastic savings built up, you have a little baby who you are dying to spend time with, you specifically gave up a more financially rewarding career to join an organisation which has family friendly policies - so just do it!!


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## truthseeker (24 Feb 2010)

Buzybee - youre definitely being way too hard on yourself. Of course youre entitled to free time. You have to learn to stand up to your own family and just say no. If youre asked to do something because someone 'percieves' you as having free time, just say that you are spending quality time with your child, or catching up on chores, or otherwise busy at something that YOU enjoy doing. 

I spend a LOT of time reading. Id go bananas if I didnt. Its my 'thing' that I do to unwind.

I wouldnt give a fiddlers about someone (family or not) being scornful of me because of the life choices I make. Its my life, they can live theirs the way they choose, and Ill live mine the way I choose and if they dont like my lifestyle - tough. Thats the attitude you need to take. You have to look after number 1. 
Would your family prefer to see you stressed and overworked and feeling miserable? I dont think so.


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## ali (25 Feb 2010)

+1 to the last 4 replies. As my husband would tell me: "You need to grow a pair"! 

A.


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## Caveat (26 Feb 2010)

moneygrower said:


> holy cow buzybee are you protestant or something???


 
Well done, you've managed the twin feat of being potentially offensive as well as bewildering.

What are you talking about?


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