# Credit card surchage



## Bob Hopes (27 Aug 2008)

I recently paid a deposit for a high value item to be custom made. When paying the deposit, I asked if the retailer accetped Visa and he replied "yes". So i duly paid a 10% deposit with my Visa card. On the day the item was ready for collection the retailer phoned me and informed me that I must pay the outstanding balance by bank draft. I was surprised as I had planned to pay by Visa, and I asked to pay by that method. To my shock, the retailer insisted that if I wanted to pay by Visa I must pay a surcharge of almost €100. I queried this as I had not been informed of such a surcharge at any stage previously. I got a very curt response that "we tell all customers about the surcharge". The retailer was extremely dismissive, did not apologise and rambled on about their own costs of doing business, ultimately unwilling to budge on the surcharge.

I phoned the government's consumer helpline who informed me that, because the retailer had changed the contract by imposing a credit card surcharge, i was legally entitled to reject the contract entirely (i.e. not proceed with the purchase). The consumer people told me the retailer must return my deposit if i rejected the new contract.

I called into the retailer to inform him i was rejecting the contract and not proceeding. His response was again rude and dismissive. He then said he would waive the visa surcharge. I insisted that I was withdrawing from the deal, as was my legal right. They continued with rude behaviour, and refused to return my deposit. 

I believe this is an example of sharp practice. I wasn't told of any surcharge when I paid my original 10% deposit, which itself was not subject to a surcharge. The retailer told me a number of times "no other customer has ever had a problem paying the surcharge, you're the first" - so i guess they've been getting away with this for years.

Has anyone else had a similar experience to this? How did you handle it? Any ideas how I might recover my deposit?


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## jhegarty (27 Aug 2008)

how much was the item?


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## Bob Hopes (27 Aug 2008)

The total price was €3,500.


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## Sunny (27 Aug 2008)

My advice would be just to go through with the deal if they are willing to drop the surcharge. Is that not easier on everyone?

Credit card surcharges are a pet hate of mine but I know there are plenty of people on this site who think they are pro consumer for reasons I could never understand


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## jhegarty (27 Aug 2008)

It them item is €3500 then the €100 is only covering the cost of him taking the card payment.... he isn't making a profit out of it...


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## Bob Hopes (27 Aug 2008)

Thanks Sunny, I would have had no problem in paying the surcharge if i was told about it when I originally paid the deposit.  The way it was done smells of sharp practice to me.  I refused to go ahead on a point of principle and because the consumer people told me that was my legal right.  (Incidentially I've left out the details of how rude this guy was..there's no way I was paying him another €3,150 after the way he spoke to me).


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## Bob Hopes (27 Aug 2008)

jhegarty said:


> It them item is €3500 then the €100 is only covering the cost of him taking the card payment.... he isn't making a profit out of it...


 
Hi jhegarty, he would make the profit - from the sale of the item. The cost of receiving the payment by credit card should have been factored into the original price. If it was not factored into the original price, then I should have been told when placing the deposit that a surcharge would be payable.

He actually used the term "taking a hit" when referring to the credit card surcharge. It's not a "hit", it's a cost of doing business. I feel imposing a charge at the last minute is opportunism.

In my experience credit card surcharges are not widespread. I don't know of any retailers who impose them, and i've never been asked to pay a surcharge (apart from booking flights online). If anyone has any similar experience of credit card surcharges, especially at the last minute, I'd be interested to hear about it.


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## bond-007 (27 Aug 2008)

2.5% would be the maximum that he would be charged. That would work out at €87.50 in your case based on €3500. 

His charge seems fair as it is not excessive. I do agree he would have mentioned it from the outset.


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## Bob Hopes (27 Aug 2008)

bond-007 said:


> 2.5% would be the maximum that he would be charged. That would work out at €87.50 in your case based on €3500.
> 
> His charge seems fair as it is not excessive. I do agree he would have mentioned it from the outset.


 
Hi Bond, your figure is closer to his, I just rounded it up to make my original post easier to read. The problem began when I asked if he accepted Visa. He replied "yes". That is when he should have replied "yes but we impose a 2.5% surcharge on all credit card transactions". Instead he accepted my 10% deposit, €350, paid by visa without imposing any surcharge. Perhaps he didn't tell me of the adittional surcharge at that point in case I decided not to proceed before paying the deposit? As I said before, it smells of sharp practice.


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## bond-007 (27 Aug 2008)

It certainly does.


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## dem_syhp (27 Aug 2008)

Bob Hopes said:


> I phoned the government's consumer helpline who informed me that, because the retailer had changed the contract by imposing a credit card surcharge, i was legally entitled to reject the contract entirely (i.e. not proceed with the purchase). The consumer people told me the retailer must return my deposit if i rejected the new contract.


 
I agree with you and would be backing out on principle also.  But sorry no experience with it.  Have you tried quoting what the consumer helpline said?  If that doesn't work - get back on to them and ask them how to get your deposit back?


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## Pique318 (27 Aug 2008)

This seems to be a huge over-reaction to me.

You ordered a custom-made piece at a cost of 3500.
After waiting for the item to be made, the retailer tells you that you will have to pay a small surcharge amounting to less than 3%.

Payment by credit card is not always accepted. that is the retailers right. He accepted the deposit via CC without charging any surcharge. What if he told you that he was unable to take CC payments any more ? You should be thankful that he absorbed the surcharge for the deposit.

I think that you are the one breaking the contract here, as you commissioned him to make the item and are now not paying for it as the retailer won't take Visa. He is under no obligation to accept payment via CC as it's not 'legal tender'. 

I think that you looking for the deposit back after he spends a good deal of time and effort doing something you commissioned, to be a little rich on your part. If I were him, I'd be chasing you for the time wasted on a piece worth far less to someone who didn't commission it.


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## Bob Hopes (27 Aug 2008)

dem_syhp said:


> I agree with you and would be backing out on principle also. But sorry no experience with it. Have you tried quoting what the consumer helpline said? If that doesn't work - get back on to them and ask them how to get your deposit back?


 
Thanks Dem, I did quote what they said to no avail.  I'll give them a ring back as you suggested.


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## dem_syhp (27 Aug 2008)

Pique318 said:


> Payment by credit card is not always accepted. that is the retailers right. He accepted the deposit via CC without charging any surcharge. What if he told you that he was unable to take CC payments any more ? You should be thankful that he absorbed the surcharge for the deposit.


 
True - but OP had asked was credit card accepted? HE was told yes and a price was agreed in full knowledge that his credit card would be used. This was added on afterwards! Why should the OP be "thankful" that the retailer went back to the original price - while being rude at the same time. 

IF the retailer had mentioned it at the time, the OP would have had a choice. 

If the retailer didn't want to take credit cards, just say no at the start - it's very simple, OR inform the customer at the start.


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## Pique318 (27 Aug 2008)

dem_syhp said:


> True - but OP had asked was credit card accepted? HE was told yes and a price was agreed in full knowledge that his credit card would be used. This was added on afterwards! Why should the OP be "thankful" that the retailer went back to the original price - while being rude at the same time.
> 
> IF the retailer had mentioned it at the time, the OP would have had a choice.
> 
> If the retailer didn't want to take credit cards, just say no at the start - it's very simple, OR inform the customer at the start.



If i just wasted my time and money making something for someone to leave me in the lurch over less than 3%, I can imagine I may be rude too.

The OP still has a choice, pay the surcharge, or pay by draft. 
Bob Hopes - Why not pay by Draft and get what you commissioned ?


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## Bob Hopes (27 Aug 2008)

Bob Hopes said:


> Thanks Dem, I did quote what they said to no avail. I'll give them a ring back as you suggested.


 


Pique318 said:


> This seems to be a huge over-reaction to me.
> 
> You ordered a custom-made piece at a cost of 3500.
> After waiting for the item to be made, the retailer tells you that you will have to pay a small surcharge amounting to less than 3%.
> ...


 
I did not break the contract. The retailer broke it. If I had waited until the day of purchase and then insisted I was going to pay him 2.5% less than the agreed price, then I would be breaking the contract. No one would think me reasonable to do such a thing, and the retailer certainly wouldn't accpet it! Why would be ok for retailer to do it to a customer?

The retailer confirmed he did accept credit card payments - that's not the issue. 

I guess it's a difference of opinion. I don't agree it's a huge over-reaction.


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## Bob Hopes (27 Aug 2008)

Pique318 said:


> If i just wasted my time and money making something for someone to leave me in the lurch over less than 3%, I can imagine I may be rude too.
> 
> The OP still has a choice, pay the surcharge, or pay by draft.
> Bob Hopes - Why not pay by Draft and get what you commissioned ?


 
I was not in a position to make it to the bank and queue for a draft on the day in question. If the retailer had told me on day one about the surcharge I'd have had plenty of time to get the draft in the meantime. This problem was caused entirely by the retailer.

As far as being rude to customers goes.. if you want to win their business, in my opinion it's not a good idea to be rude to prospective customers just as they are about to spend in excess of €3k.


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## Pique318 (27 Aug 2008)

To me it seems like nit-picking. If you really wanted this 3.5k one-off item, then you'd pay for it (by CC or draft). If you don't want it, then you lose your deposit and I think he's got every right to chase you for the rest of the payment as a one-off is only worth the price to the person who commissioned it. It's most likely not worth 3.5k to anyone else, therefore the retailer is losing out. He should by rights get that difference from you.

Obviously it's not that important to you. What was the item in question ?


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## Pique318 (27 Aug 2008)

Bob Hopes said:


> I was not in a position to make it to the bank and queue for a draft on the day in question.


Fair enough, but why cancel the deal then ? Just go another day...


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## Bob Hopes (27 Aug 2008)

Pique318 said:


> To me it seems like nit-picking. If you really wanted this 3.5k one-off item, then you'd pay for it (by CC or draft). If you don't want it, then you lose your deposit and I think he's got every right to chase you for the rest of the payment as a one-off is only worth the price to the person who commissioned it. It's most likely not worth 3.5k to anyone else, therefore the retailer is losing out. He should by rights get that difference from you.
> 
> Obviously it's not that important to you. What was the item in question ?


 

To you nit picking, to me point of principle. As i said, difference of opinion. What the item was and what day i was able to make it to the bank are irrelevant. 

We seem to have strayed off track. My original question was.. if anyone has had any similar experience of a last minute credit card surcharge? (The fact that no one has yet replied "yes" to that question shows that this situation seems to be very rare).


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## MugsGame (27 Aug 2008)

> He then said he would waive the visa surcharge. I insisted that I was withdrawing from the deal, as was my legal right.


Wrong - by waiving the surcharge the retailer has offered to complete the original contract so you have no entitlement to a refund of deposit (unless you explicitily agreed that the deposit was refundable when you paid it).

The retailer was in the wrong not to flag the "surcharge" originally. The card schemes don't like surcharges and try to forbid them in the merchant agreements but in practice merchants seem to get away with applying them via other means (separate card processing fees, cash discounts, etc.).


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## bond-007 (27 Aug 2008)

Or in the case of Ryanair, fully out in the open. 

The only places I have seen credit card surcharges are travel agents and airlines. In the case of small retailers they sometimes might add a nominal charge of €0.25 if a sale is under €10 which I would have no problem with.


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## Brendan Burgess (27 Aug 2008)

Auctioneers impose a credit card surcharge. 

Aldi and Lidl don't take credit cards. 

There are lots more examples. 

The guy has every right to impose a surcharge, but he is obliged to tell you about it upfront. He didn't so he waived the charge.

You have now got the original contract you signed up to. You have a legal and moral obligation to complete the contract. 

He should not have been rude to you. But being rude is not illegal. Put up with it. Buy the product and enjoy it. Tell your friends not to deal with this guy anymore.

Brendan


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## Bob Hopes (27 Aug 2008)

Brendan said:


> Auctioneers impose a credit card surcharge.
> 
> Aldi and Lidl don't take credit cards.
> 
> ...


 
Hi Brendan, that is your opinion and you're entitled to it. What happened here is the guy engaged in sharp practice. He was trying it on. He insisted there was no way he would waive the credit card surcharge, the surcharge he omitted to tell me about in the first place. The surcharge that he never charged me on the deposit. He said there was nothing he could do. He left me with no choice but to reject the contract. Only then, when I rejected the contract did he decide to change the contract again - that brings the number of changes he made to the contract to two. I have no contract with, and owe no legal or moral obligation to this retailer. In fact he has the legal and moral obligation to return my money. I don't have to put up with sharp practice.

Again I ask if anyone has a similar experience, I'd like to hear about it.


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## jhegarty (27 Aug 2008)

I think you will find that legally you are still committed to the contract and have no right to your deposit back....

you checked you legal right , and he has complied with them.... it would only void the contract if he refused to...


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## Bob Hopes (28 Aug 2008)

I guess no one has had a similar experience to share, but I appreciate everyone's input. Thanks all for your comments.


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