# Will Rafa & the team be watching the 7-2 Masterclass?



## ringledman (10 Mar 2010)

A good video for Liverpool to watch in training tomorrow?


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## ivuernis (11 Mar 2010)

I'm just waiting for the "Rooney to Madrid" headlines to begin ;-)


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## RMCF (11 Mar 2010)

ivuernis said:


> I'm just waiting for the "Rooney to Madrid" headlines to begin ;-)



I have already seen them.

But I do honestly think is Real Madrid want to buy another big star name this summer then they should forget about everyone else and do everything they possibly can to get Rooney. He, along with Messi and Ronaldo, are the players that are miles out in front in world football. Messi they can't and will never get, but Rooney maybe. He would cost an absolute mountain of money, but he would be worth it.

Sell Kaka the bum back to Milan for half what they paid. Cut their losses. Sell Higuain to City for silly money, sell Ramos at full back. He should raise a fair bit. Sell Diarra in midfield. They might get €100 for him. Sell Drenthe, Marcelo, Raul, Guti etc. Get all the money together and buy Rooney. We all know that the Glaziers are open to offers on anyone in their team as they need the cash.

But it was some display by Utd, and a very poor 2nd half one by Madrid after hammering Lyon in the 1st. Milan need to take a good look at themselves. This is the weakest Utd team in about 10 years yet they made Milan look like wee boys. Fair play to them.

Madrid. Back to the drawing board. Mourinho will be the next purchase I feel.

As for the original point of the Pool - well it must be heart-breaking for their fans to watch Utd do so well while they have to support a bucket side which will finish about 6th in the EPL this season, and which is playing tragic football. An insult to the name of Liverpool FC.


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## carpedeum (11 Mar 2010)

ivuernis said:


> I'm just waiting for the "Rooney to Madrid" headlines to begin ;-)



Rooney will never go to Madrid. He is the last of the street footballers and wants to play football, win trophies and THEN bank the cash. Barcelona would be a better move for him. As a United fan of 40+ years I cannot see him moving. I predict that he will be captain next season at United.

What has happened at Liverpool is tragic for real football fans. Yes, they did spoil my childhood! Rafa has done more than destroyed the first team and their renowned cavalier all-out attack style of playing which was similar to United and Arsenal. He has destroyed the Anfield bootroom and has done a root and branch job on the club, installing Spanish coaches and staff at all levals. The American owners and Rick Parry did nothing to prevent this, but, then they had no emotional attachment to Liverpool and it's heritage. Think of Shankly, Paisley, Ronnie Moran, Kenny Dalglish, Roy Evans and those life long staffers who had Liverpool running through their veins. Looking at Gerrard hhis season, he is gutted and demotivated. Capello even erred and picked Rio, who real United fans have little time for, as England captain. Sad.

Sure, as a United fan it does please me that we have toppled Liverpool and are closing in on our 19th Championship and will eventually equal their 5 European Cups, but, we would prefer to be competing at the top with Liverpool than the mercenary and souless Chelsea or the boring and unsporting Arsenal.


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## MrMan (11 Mar 2010)

I can't see Rooney ever going abroad to play for another club. He has all of the money he needs/wants and is only a 1/2 hour from his family. He seems settled and I don't think the heat or change in culture would benefit him. He is where he should be.


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## ivuernis (12 Mar 2010)

carpedeum said:


> Rooney will never go to Madrid. He is the last of the street footballers and wants to play football, win trophies and THEN bank the cash. Barcelona would be a better move for him. As a United fan of 40+ years I cannot see him moving. I predict that he will be captain next season at United.



What I said about Rooney was a jest aimed at Real Madrid who usual reaction to their team exiting Europe in the last 16 again is to start a whispering campaign aimed at unsettling their next galactico target. 



carpedeum said:


> What has happened at Liverpool is tragic for real football fans. Yes, they did spoil my childhood! Rafa has done more than destroyed the first team and their renowned cavalier all-out attack style of playing which was similar to United and Arsenal. He has destroyed the Anfield bootroom and has done a root and branch job on the club, installing Spanish coaches and staff at all levals. The American owners and Rick Parry did nothing to prevent this, but, then they had no emotional attachment to Liverpool and it's heritage. Think of Shankly, Paisley, Ronnie Moran, Kenny Dalglish, Roy Evans and those life long staffers who had Liverpool running through their veins. Looking at Gerrard hhis season, he is gutted and demotivated. Capello even erred and picked Rio, who real United fans have little time for, as England captain. Sad.
> 
> Sure, as a United fan it does please me that we have toppled Liverpool and are closing in on our 19th Championship and will eventually equal their 5 European Cups, but, we would prefer to be competing at the top with Liverpool than the mercenary and souless Chelsea or the boring and unsporting Arsenal.



As a United fan also I agree with you. Much as I'm supposed to "hate" Liverpool it is sad to see what's happening to them given their past history. That said their 20+ years without a title has at least yielded them a Champions League and several other cups. All United had to show for the 70s and 80s was 3 FA Cups and a spell in the then second division. Winning a record 19th title this season with an unprecedented 4th consecutive title would be so sweet though. I'm enjoying it while it lasts. Who knows with our mutual debt problems United and Liverpool could end up facing each other in the Europa League final instead of the Champions League within a few years!


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## RMCF (12 Mar 2010)

carpedeum said:


> *boring *and unsporting *Arsenal*.



Do you watch football?


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## MrMan (12 Mar 2010)

not since the early 90's it seems


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## ivuernis (12 Mar 2010)

MrMan said:


> not since the early 90's it seems



What? Football existed before *The Premier League* (TM)? That's crazy talk!


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## ivuernis (12 Mar 2010)

ivuernis said:


> I'm just waiting for the "Rooney to Madrid" headlines to begin ;-)



Here We Go!


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## DB74 (12 Mar 2010)

carpedeum said:


> Looking at Gerrard hhis season, he is gutted and demotivated. Capello even erred and picked Rio, who real United fans have little time for, as England captain.


 
Why do "real" United fans have little time for Rio?


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## VOR (12 Mar 2010)

As a staunch Man U fan I think this "masterclass" talk is way off the mark. United were average. Milan were shocking.

The good points - 
1) Rooney's scoring record of late.
2) Park nullifying Pirlo and generally coming on as a player. 
3) Fletch

The worrying points (there's nothing ever bad about United)
1) No right back worth a damn. Sorry Gary but one cross does not a full back make. 
2) We do not have a midfielder to replace Scholes.
3) A decent LB and a decent left sided midfielder will make trouble for United as most of our attacking threat comes from the right.

I also have concerns about Rio and Vidic. Vidic was once a rock at the back. Now the top class strikers know that if they run at him he will haul 'em down. That will be tested on Sunday week when Torres arrives at OT. Oh how I hope Torres doesn't get a sniff all day.
Poor Rio just can't get a run of games without getting injured. It's a real shame.


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## csirl (12 Mar 2010)

I think Rafa is brushing up on his Italian in anticipation of a move to Juventus.

Unstability at ownership level always filters down to the performance on the pitch. Happens in every sport. Liverpools problem isnt so much that they have 2 north american owners, its because the owners seem to be at logger heads on a lot of things.

United fans shouldnt get to confident about their future. Glazers first priority is Tampa Bay Buccaneers. In case you are unaware, last year the Bucs replaced their coach with a cheap unknown for financial reasons. This is a big about turn for them as traditionally they've had a reputation for paying out big bucks to attract the best to the club. If they are doing this with the Bucs, they'll do worse with United. Rumours knocking around that they are seeking to save money and raise funds - if Madrid of anyone else makes a decent offer for Rooney or any other player, then they'll accept it. I'm expecting a mass exodus of players and staff from United over the next couple of years as costs are cut.


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## ivuernis (12 Mar 2010)

VOR said:


> 1) No right back worth a damn. Sorry Gary but one cross does not a full back make.
> 2) We do not have a midfielder to replace Scholes.
> 3) A decent LB and a decent left sided midfielder will make trouble for United as most of our attacking threat comes from the right.



1) Wes Brown was a rock at RB during the 2007/08 season but Fergie seems not to pick him there much these days preferring the Brazilian kid, O'Shea or Neville. 
2) Just like when Keane left the system will evolve around a different midfielder's strengths and weaknesses. I still have hope that Anderson can turn into a very good attacking midfielder. 
3) Valencia did some excellent tracking back down Milan's left flank on Wed



csirl said:


> United fans shouldnt get to confident about their future. Glazers first priority is Tampa Bay Buccaneers. In case you are unaware, last year the Bucs replaced their coach with a cheap unknown for financial reasons. This is a big about turn for them as traditionally they've had a reputation for paying out big bucks to attract the best to the club. If they are doing this with the Bucs, they'll do worse with United. Rumours knocking around that they are seeking to save money and raise funds - if Madrid of anyone else makes a decent offer for Rooney or any other player, then they'll accept it. I'm expecting a mass exodus of players and staff from United over the next couple of years as costs are cut.



I don't think most United fans are confident about the club's future. Most know the Red Knights is prob more hype than reality. I don't think the Glazer's plan is as drastic as you say. Remember the need to club to continue being successful so that can maximise their return when they do eventually sell it. I think before the £500m bond runs it's 7-year term they will pay off their PIK loans with money from the club then sell the club with the bond still in place. A new owner(s) would pay £700-800m for the club and inherit the bond obligations. The would leave the Glazer with a £400-500m profit for their efforts. How I despise them. The money exiting Old Trafford to pay for this kind of leverage is incredible. Of course, Ferguson will have to retire sometime too!


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## csirl (12 Mar 2010)

ivuernis said:


> 1) Wes Brown was a rock at RB during the 2007/08 season but Fergie seems not to pick him there much these days preferring the Brazilian kid, O'Shea or Neville.
> 2) Just like when Keane left the system will evolve around a different midfielder's strengths and weaknesses. I still have hope that Anderson can turn into a very good attacking midfielder.
> 3) Valencia did some excellent tracking back down Milan's left flank on Wed
> 
> ...


 
But dont forget the complicating factor in all this is the Tampa Bay Buccaneers [bearing in mind that every NFL team is valued higher than United, so the Bucs are the more valuable asset - franchise alone, without the assets is worth in excess of 1bn].  They need the Bucs to be successful to retain its value. It may be necessary for them to take money out of United and invest it in the Bucs sacrificing United's success and value to ensure that the Bucs are competitive and maintain their value. You may also be unaware that the NFL salary cap was withdrawn earlier this month. Therefore clubs are no longer restricted to an annual player wage bill of $128m. Teams may need to spend a lot more money to stay competitive. There may be a spending war over the next couple of years, so NFL owners are looking outside the sport for additional sources of funding to keep their teams competitive.


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## VOR (12 Mar 2010)

ivuernis said:


> 1) Wes Brown was a rock at RB during the 2007/08 season but Fergie seems not to pick him there much these days preferring the Brazilian kid, O'Shea or Neville.
> 2) Just like when Keane left the system will evolve around a different midfielder's strengths and weaknesses. I still have hope that Anderson can turn into a very good attacking midfielder.
> 3) Valencia did some excellent tracking back down Milan's left flank on Wed


 

Agree on Wes. Brown is out for at least 6-8 weeks so we can count him out. We currently do not have a FIT right full back of the quality required to win the Champs Lge

I had such great hopes for Anderson but it just hasn't happened. I don't know how long Fergie will wait for him. We NEED a passer; a real midfield passer. There are only 4/5 in the world worthy of the United jersey. There is nobody in England of Scholes level. I hear great things about Petrucci but we'll just have to wait and see. 

Valencia did very well when tracking back. But I meant the opposite. United show a tendency to attack the right flank. If a team manages to nullify our threat down the right, we are in trouble.


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## ivuernis (12 Mar 2010)

csirl said:


> But dont forget the complicating factor in all this is the Tampa Bay Buccaneers [bearing in mind that every NFL team is valued higher than United, so the Bucs are the more valuable asset - franchise alone, without the assets is worth in excess of 1bn].  They need the Bucs to be successful to retain its value. It may be necessary for them to take money out of United and invest it in the Bucs sacrificing United's success and value to ensure that the Bucs are competitive and maintain their value. You may also be unaware that the NFL salary cap was withdrawn earlier this month. Therefore clubs are no longer restricted to an annual player wage bill of $128m. Teams may need to spend a lot more money to stay competitive. There may be a spending war over the next couple of years, so NFL owners are looking outside the sport for additional sources of funding to keep their teams competitive.



Are you sure about those valuations? According to the Forbes list of the most valuable sporting "franchises" United are top... 

1. Manchester United (Football, $1.8bn)
2. Dallas Cowboys (American Football, $1.6bn)
3. Washington Redskins (American Football, $1.5bn)
4. New England Patriots (American Football, $1.32bn)
5. New York Yankees (Baseball, $1.3bn)
6. Real Madrid (Football, $1.29bn)
7. Arsenal (Football, $1.2bn)
8. New York Giants (American Football, $1.18bn)
9. New York Jets (American Football, $1.17bn)
10. Houston Texans (American Football, $1.17bn)



VOR said:


> I had such great hopes for Anderson but it just hasn't happened. I don't know how long Fergie will wait for him. We NEED a passer; a real midfield passer. There are only 4/5 in the world worthy of the United jersey. There is nobody in England of Scholes level. I hear great things about Petrucci but we'll just have to wait and see.



Yeah, maybe Anderson will do some hard thinking about his United future while recovering from his knee injury. United will give him the best rehab and hopefully he'll return a better player. Unfortunately, it's going to be nigh on impossible to replace Scholes. Gonna to be very strange when Ferguson, Giggs and Scholes call it a day in the next 2-3 years. They've all be around so long it'll be strange to picture a United without any of them.


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## VOR (12 Mar 2010)

ivuernis said:


> Are you sure about those valuations? According to the Forbes list of the most valuable sporting "franchises" United are top...


 
I am not convinced by these vals either. For one thing it leaves out the bulk of TV money. The YES network is valued at a minimum of $2bn. It was $3.5bn in 2007 so I think that is very conservative in today's climate. That puts the Yankess over the $3bn mark.

The Glazers are no fools. They know that United have not tapped the Asian market to the same extent as the the Yankees have tapped the US market. If MUTV goes truly  global using high speed broadband it is fair to say that the club will be conservatively valued at $4.5bn min. 

That might sound crazy but if you can get 10 million people to pay $1 a month to watch games on line then you are on a winner. A billion dollar winner.


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## carpedeum (12 Mar 2010)

RMCF said:


> Do you watch football?



Yes, I watch football and acknowledge that Arsenal, when the mood takes them are great to watch, usually against teams outside the top five or six. They bottled it against United in the Champions League last year and again in the Premiership this year against what is one of the weakest United teams of the last 10 years. However, Mr. Wenger is the worst loser in football and never ever has a good word to say for any team who beats them. United were absolutely played off the park by Everton a couple of weeks ago, but, Alex Ferguson stated Everton were the better team and totally deserved to win. Ferguson has acknowedged similar losses to Chelsea and Liverpool in recent seasons. Wengers comments on Shawcross after the tackle on Ramsey, admittedly as late as the 14a bus, but, a young player with no history of violence, were totally over the top and were repeated a week later. Wenger is basically a bully, who has failed to come near to delivering a single trophy, even a Carling Cup, for over five years.


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## carpedeum (12 Mar 2010)

DB74 said:


> Why do "real" United fans have little time for Rio?



Where do I start? The drug test dodge? The meal with Chelsea directors? His habit of falling asleep at the back? The fact that he was earning more than Keane, Giggs, Rooney et al at one stage? His reluctance to put his head where it might be hurt like Steve Bruce, Kevin Moran, Vidic or Paul McGrath? He comes well down the list of United centre-halves. Jonny Evans looks the real deal and there is a young 17 year old Irish lad called Michael Keane playing for the reserves who may challenge him soon. His twin, William, also plays centre-forward for the United Reserves.


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## Pique318 (13 Mar 2010)

VOR said:


> I am not convinced by these vals either. For one thing it leaves out the bulk of TV money. The YES network is valued at a minimum of $2bn. It was $3.5bn in 2007 so I think that is very conservative in today's climate. That puts the Yankess over the $3bn mark.
> 
> The Glazers are no fools. They know that United have not tapped the Asian market to the same extent as the the Yankees have tapped the US market. If MUTV goes truly  global using high speed broadband it is fair to say that the club will be conservatively valued at $4.5bn min.
> 
> That might sound crazy but if you can get 10 million people to pay $1 a month to watch games on line then you are on a winner. A billion dollar winner.


There's a lot of 'Red Sky Over Manchester' in that reply mate.
1) $2bn today compared to $3.5bn in '07 is probably optimistic.
2) Conservatively valuing MU at $4.5bn 'min' is pure pipe dream. Clubs aren't investing. People aren't signing up to Sky/Fox Sports in their droves, hence the 'Free SkyHD box' offers.
3) There's a LOT of 'ifs' in your post.

MU are saddled with up on £1bn of debt. MU bought no-one of note during the summer after making £80m on CR7. 
MU will have to find a successor to Ferguson (and soon!). There's a lot of holes in the MU team, especially considering the imminent departure of Giggs, Scholes, Vidic, Van Der Sar, and possibly Berbatov, along with the RB/RM gap as has been mentioned (That's a whole lotta money needed to cover all those spots)  that are not evident in the Chelski, Arsenal, Barca and (dare I say it, RM) teams. 
I reckon ye should win the title (at a push) but Chelski will puch you for it. Arsenal may even beat you to 2nd. Liverpool (my team...yes I peered over the parapet for this thread  ) will be lucky to get 6th and that may be the best thing to happen us. "It's only when you've lost everything etc.etc.".

MU fans watched the crumbling of the Liverpool Empire in the 90s. I look forward to the reverse in the coming decade. Not saying you didn't deserve most of it, but damn, you had a lot of luck along the way, when we had zilch.

Ah well, Europa (You're Ropey) League, nice to meet you. I reckon we'll be friends for a while !!!


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## VOR (15 Mar 2010)

Pique318 said:


> People aren't signing up to Sky/Fox Sports in their droves, hence the 'Free SkyHD box' offers.


 
There are a lot of ifs but it comes down to a simple fact that the future is online.

Sky is going down the pan. They are looking for more and more gimicks to hold on to customers. Eventually the internet is where it will be. 
The big clubs will move the rights to games to internet providers. I will happily pay £1 per month to watch United online. There will be millions more that will do the same thing. Ditto for Barca, Real, Liverpool etc. etc.


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## csirl (15 Mar 2010)

> Are you sure about those valuations? According to the Forbes list of the most valuable sporting "franchises" United are top...
> 
> 1. Manchester United (Football, $1.8bn)
> 2. Dallas Cowboys (American Football, $1.6bn)
> ...


 
I think the Man U valuation is a little optimistic - bit like our friends in the property basis valuing properties on potential yield rather than the price they would achieve if they were put up for sale. People have actually shelled out over 1bn on NFL clubs in recent years. Nobody has ever spent this amount of money on a Premiership club. 

You may argue on the potential of Asian markets, but its still only potential - is aspiration rather than the current reality. If Man U really was in the 1bn club, then dont you think that there would be some physical evidence of this? Their stadium is a dump and low on revenue compared with all the others on the list above.


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## Latrade (15 Mar 2010)

VOR said:


> There are a lot of ifs but it comes down to a simple fact that the future is online.
> 
> Sky is going down the pan. They are looking for more and more gimicks to hold on to customers. Eventually the internet is where it will be.
> The big clubs will move the rights to games to internet providers. I will happily pay £1 per month to watch United online. There will be millions more that will do the same thing. Ditto for Barca, Real, Liverpool etc. etc.


 
Murdoch's main plan is to take the BBC down as it's free service is eating into his entire operation, but the writing's on the wall for Sky. The Premiership saved it all those years ago, but that monopoly's gone.

The clubs are desperate to get out of the Premiership deal and start negotiating their own deals, I think the internet is their queue, probably through their own websites.

As to the OP, I guess what interests me most is that after such a win, the first thought was of your (ex)rivals down the road. Kind of cute really that in the throws of victory your thoughts were still with the pool.

I would tend to agree with Pique, but I'm not that confident. Most clubs are a house of cards and a drop in revenue like pool will face this year could well be a disaster rather than a godsend. The only hope is it drives out the current owners and gets in new owners. 

If G&H stay on, I can only see it being a Leeds/Newcastle saga.


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## Shawady (19 Mar 2010)

Have to say, the draw was very kind to United.
Barcelona, Inter and Arsenal all in the other side of the draw.
They should easily make the final now.


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## elefantfresh (19 Mar 2010)

Mouth watering Arsenal v Barca!!!


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## ivuernis (19 Mar 2010)

It won't be easy against either Bayern or the winners of Lyon/Bordeaux if we get past the QF but definitely prefer our half of the draw. If we can keep everybody fit until then end of the season then we're in with a shout of a third consecutive final.


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## carpedeum (19 Mar 2010)

It's really exciting looking forward to a rerun of last year's final of United v Barca. Rooney v Messi! Then again, Inter v United would be interesting too - Jose v Fergie!


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## VOR (19 Mar 2010)

ivuernis said:


> If we can keep everybody fit until then end of the season then we're in with a shout of a third consecutive final.


 
and the final is on the same day as the Heineken Cup final....
"Hello Mr. Barman, today I will be mostly here for the entire day, mostly!"


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## carpedeum (19 Mar 2010)

elefantfresh said:


> Mouth watering Arsenal v Barca!!!



Arsenal will bottle it like they do against all big teams. Good opportunity for Fabregas to audition for Barca.


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## VOR (19 Mar 2010)

carpedeum said:


> Arsenal will bottle it like they do against all big teams. Good opportunity for Fabregas to audition for Barca.


 
I am really looking forward to that game. But is it really bottling it when you are playing Barca? Most teams are just happy to keep to within a score of them at Camp Nou. 
Messi is basically unplayable on current form. And if he doesn't get you Xabi and Iniesta will rip you to pieces with balls to Henry and Ibra.

Oh, I so hope United get another crack at them!!!


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## MrMan (19 Mar 2010)

carpedeum said:


> Arsenal will bottle it like they do against all big teams. Good opportunity for Fabregas to audition for Barca.



I see Aresnal giving them a good game, i reckon they will suit Arsenals style and it could be a case of who takes their (many) chances.


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## VOR (19 Mar 2010)

Well if Barca are to do it they will need to play too differing styles. Arsenal and Inter will approach the games very differently. Arsenal should give them a very good game. 

Now on to more pressing matters and back on topic. This Sunday. Torres v Vidic. It surely can't end in another red card, can it? I might have to emigrate if United lose to the pool again. Sneaky bet on Berba to score.


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## ivuernis (19 Mar 2010)

VOR said:


> Now on to more pressing matters and back on topic. This Sunday. Torres v Vidic. It surely can't end in another red card, can it? I might have to emigrate if United lose to the pool again. Sneaky bet on Berba to score.



Berbatov had a terrific game last w/e against Fulham. I don't want to get my hopes up, we're due a win against Liverpool but I wouldn't put it past them to raise their game for this one as they seem to have done in recent seasons. #19 is close and an unprecedented 4-in-a-row would be some way to do it!


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## notagardener (19 Mar 2010)

ringledman said:


> A good video for Liverpool to watch in training tomorrow?


 
Amazing, even after all their success some Utd fans are still obsessed with LFC


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## elefantfresh (22 Mar 2010)

That looks like it for The 'Pool now - I can't see them getting 4th place now unless there are some major slip ups.


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## VOR (22 Mar 2010)

elefantfresh said:


> That looks like it for The 'Pool now - I can't see them getting 4th place now unless there are some major slip ups.


 

It will be extremely difficult to get 4th but not impossible as there will be points dropped elsewhere. 

Liverpool have the easisest run in IMO. Leaving the Chelsea game to one side, Liverpool haveSunderland, Birmingham, Fulham, West Ham, Burnley and Hull.
Spurs still must play the top three over 14 days in April. They also have to face City on the 2nd last day of the season.
City must play United and Arsenal. Their next 3 games are all Lancashire derbies against Everton, Wigan and Burnley.
Villa have Chelsea away and City away.The week before the City game they have the Birmingham derby.
Mind you Benitez might just go and play Torres at full back and start with 2 holding midfielders and 4 centre halves. Anything is possible with that man.


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## Green (22 Mar 2010)

VOR said:


> Mind you Benitez might just go and play Torres at full back and start with 2 holding midfielders and 4 centre halves. Anything is possible with that man.


 
 Agreed...he always retains the capacity to surprise us..


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## elefantfresh (22 Mar 2010)

Theres something rotten at the 'Pool right now - not sure who or what it is though. Too easy to just pick names to blame. I think theres something more fundamentally wrong to be honest.


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## VOR (22 Mar 2010)

elefantfresh said:


> Theres something rotten at the 'Pool right now - not sure who or what it is though. Too easy to just pick names to blame. I think theres something more fundamentally wrong to be honest.


 
Can I try without ever mentioning a name.

It is the summer of 2009. You have £35M to spend. Almost half of it goes on a right back. Over half goes on a player who is injured and has only averaged 15 games a season for the last 3 years. What little is left goes on a centre back. 

Liverpool boot room hacked to pieces and replaced by Spanish speaking mercenaries.

Division in the camp between Spanish speaking and English speaking players. This was hinted at a Dutch player who didn't have Spanish as a third language. Another Dutch player did have Spanish and so they didn't hang around together. One plays every week and the other doesn't. Have a guess which one plays?

No man management of any type whatsoever. Even the Spaniards are giving out about that now.

Over reliance on certain players. Whether they play well or not, they stay on the pitch.

Excellent underage players are thrown to the wind and don't get the chance. Players win Youth FA cups but hardly get a look in. An example of this would be at left back where the pool have let go a possible England world cup squad member in exchange for a LB who can't defend.

Rigid system which suffocates attacking players and goal scorers. Excluding Liverpool, 5 of the top 6 clubs have an ex-liverpool striker on their books. 

Wingers come and go. They arrive as wingers and leave as quasi full backs.

No creativity. Two holding midfielders played regularly against relegation threatened opposition.

The lad who was to bring some creativity is a china doll.

It has nothing to do with finances at the club. Well over £200M has been spent and there is practically nowt to show for it. 

The best player on the team reckons that most of his colleagues are rubbish. He is so sure of it that he tells the papers that half the team should be replaced.


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## csirl (22 Mar 2010)

> Liverpool boot room hacked to pieces and replaced by Spanish speaking mercenaries.


 


> Excellent underage players are thrown to the wind and don't get the chance. Players win Youth FA cups but hardly get a look in.


 
While the current regime has big faults, if the boot room was still there, Liverpool would probably be in League 1. Times have changed, coaching techniques have moved on. You wont stay in the Premiership with a bunch of local lads who came throught the youth set-up coached by a bunch of old style tea drinking boot room types.

Liverpool has 3 big problems as follows:

1. The system is wrong - need to revert to a 4-4-2. Too reliant on 1 striker at the point of attack. Striker is injured, has a bad day, marked well etc., game over - you get a draw or lose with the fans moaning about not being able to convert chances. Need to have 2 strikers up front. 

2. The entire professional scouting staff need to be dismissed. The amount of money they have spent on rubbish players recommended by these people is criminal. People keep on pointing to Torres as justification for keeping these scouts, but one swallow doesnt make a summer. Too many busts.

3. Most importantly - ownership issues. Having two 50% owners who regularly disagree is the worst case scenario for a sports team. Disharmony amd instability at ownership level ALWAYS manifests itself on the field. Its amazing how teams can miraculously turn around their fortunes once an ownership issue is resolved.


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## VOR (22 Mar 2010)

csirl said:


> While the current regime has big faults, if the boot room was still there, Liverpool would probably be in League 1. Times have changed, coaching techniques have moved on. You wont stay in the Premiership with a bunch of local lads who came throught the youth set-up coached by a bunch of old style tea drinking boot room types


 
I was not only speaking of local lads. I was thinking of players such as Dean Bouzanis & Danny Ayala who have played in the Youth Cup and have had only limited opportunities for the first team. Also, take Plessis and Pacheco in the reserves. Nemeth is another who springs to mind as a player with huge potential.

Insua was given the opportunity at the expense of Warnock. Poor decision in my book. 

The boot room learned to develop and change during the 50s -90s. Who said it would not have done so again? Cleaning it out with the excpetion of Sammy Lee (God help us!) was crazy IMO. Even worse was bringing in the new management on mad contracts.


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## csirl (22 Mar 2010)

> I was thinking of players such as Dean Bouzanis & Danny Ayala who have played in the Youth Cup and have had only limited opportunities for the first team.


 
You also have Spanish U21 player Mikael San Jose, on loan to Athletico Bilbao and regarded as one of the best young defenders (or defenders of any age) in the Spanish league this season. 



> Insua was given the opportunity at the expense of Warnock. Poor decision in my book.


 
To be honest, is there much difference between them? Both in contention to go to the World Cup as squad members. At the moment both would be regarded as "average" Premiership players, but in Insua's defence, he is younger and in his first year as a regular starter so there is the chance that he will improve over the next couple of seasons. Warnock is as good as he's ever going to be, so more upside with Insua.


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## carpedeum (22 Mar 2010)

As a United fan I was pleased they beat a weak Liverpool team while not playng well either. The work rates of Park, Fletcher and Rooney made the difference.

However, last night I watched Barca v Zaragoza live on Sky. Messi gave what I think was the best individual performance I have seen since George Best. He was unplayable, took his three goals brilliantly and his play leading to the penalty was dazzling - my eleven year old just leapt up laughing as he said "Messi is unstoppable. He is a genius. The defender had to foul him!". Messi then gave the penalty to Ibrahamovich - who was having a nightmare trying to score.

Why he is better than Maradona is his team ethic and the way he bounces back up when fouled. No prima donna diving, moodiness or gesticulating. Perfect roll model for kids. Like Rooney, you get the impression he woul play for nothing! He has scored 12 goals in his last five games and two hatricks in the past 8 days! He's still only 22!

Mark April 10 in the diary - Barca v Real at the Bernabeu.

We can add Messi to Pele, Best, Cruyff, Maradona.


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## VOR (23 Mar 2010)

carpedeum said:


> We can add Messi to Pele, Best, Cruyff, Maradona.


 
I watched that match also and could not believe how good he was. Unplayable. That's the only word for it. 

Last week he went down the right and cut inside. This week, as if for the hell of it, he roamed the park and took two of his goals down the inside left channel.


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