# Passport - when being 'known to Gardai' works in your favour



## Setanta12 (26 Apr 2016)

Applying for a recent passport for my two year old daughter.  Parents & guardians' signatures must be witnessed by one of a variety of occupations - who must attest to knowing the person they witness signing the form.

Anyway, despite Mr & Mrs Setanta both presenting to local Garda station with passports (ie one each), proof of individual residence at same residence, and being listed as parents on birth cert - the local Garda refused to 'witness' the form for us - because he didn't know us personally! (We didn't know this requirement before arriving at the Station - a Garda signature is required for the photos, in addition to a witness signature)

Hence the title of this thread.  Also, some of those occupations will charge for their time e.g. accountant, solicitor, barrister in completing the form - and others, by force of their position, will simply agree without adequate checks (e.g. elected representatives). 

The listing of Peace Commissioners maintained by the Guards - they can similarly witness, if they know you - was years out-of-date with many dead!

Another of those occupations who will not charge for their services is your bank manager - but of course, if your bank manager knows you already - you might have more serious problems already than a simple passport application!


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## T McGibney (26 Apr 2016)

Setanta12 said:


> Applying for a recent passport for my two year old daughter.  Parents & guardians' signatures must be witnessed by one of a variety of occupations - who must attest to knowing the person they witness signing the form.



You're wrong. As was the Garda you dealt with.



> A Garda at your local Garda station will witness your passport application form; *as long as they are satisfied as to your identity* and that your four photos are a true likeness of you.



https://www.dfa.ie/passports-citize...stions/how-to-get-your-application-witnessed/


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## thedaddyman (26 Apr 2016)

you may have been unlucky in the Guard you got. We've done this at the local Gardaí station with both of my kids and no issues.


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## Páid (26 Apr 2016)

Same here, I did this recently and had never met the Garda before.


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## shweeney (26 Apr 2016)

and here - my local Garda station has always been totally obliging about witnessing documents.


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## Setanta12 (26 Apr 2016)

Quote/unquote from the APS1E form;
'Note to Witness(es): Parent(s)/Guardian(s) must sign in your presence and *must be personally known to you* or identified to you by someone known to you who is not related to them.  You may be contacted to confirm the validity of your signature.'


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## Setanta12 (26 Apr 2016)

Yes, heretofore, they've always been obliging*.  But no longer it seems.  The Station reported they get 8 calls a day from the Passport Office seeking to validate witness signatures.  Apparently also - additional dose of salts required here - there are so many Brits looking for passports that the average turnaround times have been delayed by approx 5-10 working days.

*seems there was a High Court challenge recently to a set of adults bringing their kid out of the country when one wasn't the guardian, and incorrectly witnessed by a Guard .. .. 

I rang another Garda Station looking to see if they could do it - they told me not a chance, I had to go to my local one for witnesses. (And my local one wouldn't sign)


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## T McGibney (26 Apr 2016)

Not good enough. Complain to Garda HQ and consider a complaint to GSOC.


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## Clara16 (26 Apr 2016)

you can ask for the Garda community liaison officer to call to your home to witness and stamp forms, I have requested this and was done in a couple of days


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## Setanta12 (26 Apr 2016)

Ok, I won't be complaining to any outside agency - I prefer shouting at 'de interweb'.

But - in this day and age - how many people can say they know a member of those professions. How do you find out who your Peace Commissioners are, when the local Gardai don't maintain adequate lists.

Shouldn't legal documentation backed by utility bills and official-photo-ID be sufficient?  I don't personally know any nurses, pharmacists, priests  - and if I do, do they personally know me?

Website also advises me as a parent to include my passport in the application for my child's passport - is this requirement listed on the form with the other requirements?  Not a chance!

Its all a bit shambolic ... ...


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## Chantilly (26 Apr 2016)

We did one recently and went to our GP for validation and then the Garda, no issue with any of them; I'd say try again another day with another Garda


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## emeralds (26 Apr 2016)

We did this recently for our teenage daughter. Section 7 was witnessed by a neigbour who is a solicitor and who stamped it for us. For previous passports the primary school principal completed Section 7. 
The garda in our local station in Dublin was than happy to complete and sign section 8 (and also the accompanying photographs). Once Section 7 was fully completed he told me it was not necessary for both parents to be at the station. I took our daughter, her expired passport, my current passport, the form and the photos to the station.


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## POC (26 Apr 2016)

I used to get my signature witnessed in advance by a Dr or School Principal who knew me - but after having an unpleasant experience with an obnoxious Garda who wouldn't accept it - I don't bother anymore. My husband and I ended up making multiple visits to the station that time. That Garda didn't accept a lot of the stuff on the form - he insisted he knew everything because he had done the training - no matter what it said on the form. For example, the form said parents needed to bring photo ID - but he wouldn't accept our driving licenses - and said he would accept a birth certificate, which doesn't have a photo. And there were at least 2 other issues that I recall him being stroppy about. It is impossible to be prepared for all the idiosyncrasies of the Garda you might meet on the day.
The easiest thing is for both parents to turn up together at your local Garda station, with all the paperwork - and fingers crossed that you don't meet a Garda who is having a bad day.


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## emeralds (26 Apr 2016)

The day I went last month with our daughter, there was a family with 4 children trying to have passports sorted. They had not filled in some of the forms and the garda had to wait until each form was properly filled in before he could complete his section. That took almost 25 minutes in total. He has to write the details into a ledger as well.  Then there was our daughter. Then 4 other people arrived in with their children after us...I'd say the gardai dread it!!


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## Andarma (26 Apr 2016)

We got our sons' forms witnessed in our local Garda station a couple of days ago with no issue. We had our own passports and their birth cents with us. She noted our passports in the ledger, but didn't look at the birth certs or proof of our address.


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## vandriver (26 Apr 2016)

POC said:


> I used to get my signature witnessed in advance by a Dr or School Principal who knew me - but after having an unpleasant experience with an obnoxious Garda who wouldn't accept it - I don't bother anymore. My husband and I ended up making multiple visits to the station that time. That Garda didn't accept a lot of the stuff on the form - he insisted he knew everything because he had done the training - no matter what it said on the form. For example, the form said parents needed to bring photo ID - but he wouldn't accept our driving licenses - and said he would accept a birth certificate, which doesn't have a photo. And there were at least 2 other issues that I recall him being stroppy about. It is impossible to be prepared for all the idiosyncrasies of the Garda you might meet on the day.
> The easiest thing is for both parents to turn up together at your local Garda station, with all the paperwork - and fingers crossed that you don't meet a Garda who is having a bad day.


Sounds exactly like the Guard I got in Crumlin G/S who made a hames of the form, despite me telling him how to do it (and my wife trying to shut me up!)


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## gar32 (26 Apr 2016)

Once the Local Guard did not want to sign for me. I explained the reason you don't know me is I am a good citizen who has never been in trouble. Showing him proof of address old passport birth cert and also driving Licence. I convinced him to sign.


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## Setanta12 (27 Apr 2016)

Rocked up to An Post to post the application (witnessed/signed/everything all done).  Told the Form is out-of-date - but there's no new form.  She scrawled through the payment details and I paid over-the-counter.  Fair enough.

She said she would need a parent's passport.  I said that's not a requirement.  She said it is now.  Actually I was ready for this - if you ignore the form and review the DFA website FAQs they mention this  - but nowhere else is it mentioned.

The whole entire process is truly shambolic.


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## MrEarl (27 Apr 2016)

gar32 said:


> ....I explained the reason you don't know me is I am a good citizen who has never been in trouble......



That's the key point to drive home anytime anyone has a Garda not willing to assist on the basis that "they don't know you" ... infact, I would get quite annoyed with them about it and ask for them to go get their superior to discuss the matter further.

That said.... the few times I've ever needed anything from the Gardai they have always been more than helpful at my local station, so credit where it's due, it's always service with a smile thankfully.... and no, I don't know any of them before someone asks


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## xoxoxo (27 Apr 2016)

All of theses experiences would make you really question why AGS are involved with passport applications at all. The whole process could be centralised and processed by appropriately trained lay people. Such a waste of their time doing clerical duties like this.


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## Leo (28 Apr 2016)

xoxoxo said:


> All of theses experiences would make you really question why AGS are involved with passport applications at all. The whole process could be centralised and processed by appropriately trained lay people. Such a waste of their time doing clerical duties like this.



They do it so that they can verify the ID and photographs you're presenting do in fact belong to you, and for that system of verification to be very difficult for the criminal element to circumvent.


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## xoxoxo (28 Apr 2016)

Leo said:


> They do it so that they can verify the ID and photographs you're presenting do in fact belong to you, and for that system of verification to be very difficult for the criminal element to circumvent



Yes, but why does it have to be AGS. Anybody can validate ID and photos, does not have to be the guards. Pulse will throw up any convictions they have. A guard will not necessarily recognise the most hardened criminal if he walks into his station (new guard, criminal new to area etc) but will depend on a computer system to do so. No logic for it having to be a member of AGS at all!


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## Leo (29 Apr 2016)

xoxoxo said:


> Yes, but why does it have to be AGS. Anybody can validate ID and photos, does not have to be the guards. Pulse will throw up any convictions they have. A guard will not necessarily recognise the most hardened criminal if he walks into his station (new guard, criminal new to area etc) but will depend on a computer system to do so. No logic for it having to be a member of AGS at all!



Yes, anybody can do it, but it's much easier threaten or bribe a member of the public than it is a Garda. The criminal gangs have previously infiltrated the Passport Office to circumvent this process. They'd do it a lot more if it was as simple as threaten a local working in whatever office took over those duties.

The Gardai do not look up Pulse, criminals are entitled to passports too.


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## xoxoxo (29 Apr 2016)

Pity we can't give them a one way ticket with their passport


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## Leo (29 Apr 2016)

xoxoxo said:


> Pity we can't give them a one way ticket with their passport



Agreed!!


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