# "Ditch the lattes if you want to save up the deposit on a house"



## Boyd (9 Oct 2016)

Bah you cant comment on the Indo article.......I was hoping for lots of irate FTB replies!!


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## noproblem (9 Oct 2016)

I actually agree with Brendan's piece in today's paper regarding what people themselves can do in order to save for a deposit. Always had a bit of a smile when looking at those people with their coffee's and croissants in hand rushing to work like there would be no tomorrow. Get to bed earlier, get up earlier, have a breakfast, bring a snack to work and lose the attitude.


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## Brendan Burgess (9 Oct 2016)

My article in today's Sindo: 

First-time buyers should ditch the lattes before seeking Budget help


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## Username2012 (9 Oct 2016)

Brendan Burgess said:


> My article in today's Sindo:
> 
> First-time buyers should ditch the lattes before seeking Budget help



Good piece - as a FTB in the next year or two I am fearful of whatever idiocy FG or FG will produce this week to pump up prices some more!


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## SS expert (9 Oct 2016)

I think only a small percentage of people could save €20,000 a year. health, car insurance, member of a gym or club etc it all adds up...


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## Gordon Gekko (9 Oct 2016)

SS expert said:


> I think only a small percentage of people could save €20,000 a year. health, car insurance, member of a gym or club etc it all adds up...



I think Brendan's point is that luxuries such as the gym or club should be given up.


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## SS expert (9 Oct 2016)

I don't think people should have to give up things like gym/clubs

The central banks report was full of unrealistic targets too.
If people could save that amount why not wait 10-15 years and buy 100% cash.

In general that level of savings is not a realistic goal for the masses, I would even struggle to save anywhere near that and I'm a saver...


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## Itchy (10 Oct 2016)

That article was incredibly patronising and added absolutely zero to the discussion. To distill what is a serious problem in Irish society at the moment, to the over consumption of lattes is pointless. 

I think it is commonly accepted, at this stage, that there is supply issue in the market. When Brendans couple have followed his advice, scrimped and saved and have the 60k, what then? The fact is there is no light at the end of the tunnel. As that's the situation that I'm in.

I think the government need to create the conditions for ftb housing stock to be built. If your protagonists aren't living in the real world, Brendan, then don't waist the column inches by patronising those of us who are.


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## Brendan Burgess (10 Oct 2016)

Itchy said:


> I think it is commonly accepted, at this stage, that there is supply issue in the market.



Which is why the article concludes with what I have been saying for some time: 

"However, if the government wants to interfere, they could provide a VAT rebate for newly-built houses which meet the highest standards of energy conservation and general building regulations. This would make it more profitable for developers to build more houses, which should increase the supply. But there should be no preference shown towards first-time buyers.

We need to see more houses built."



Itchy said:


> That article was incredibly patronising and added absolutely zero to the discussion.



I don't consider telling people that they should cut expenditure in order to be able to buy a home without excessive borrowing to be patronising. But I can appreciate that people who do not want to curb their expenditure might consider it to be. 

Brendan


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## Brendan Burgess (10 Oct 2016)

SS expert said:


> If people could save that amount why not wait 10-15 years and buy 100% cash.



Hi SS 

With current levels of low interest rates and high rents, it's cheaper to rent money (to buy a house)  than to rent a house.  This is usually true and will probably be true for the foreseeable future. 

So buying your family home is a good aspiration to have and well worth making sacrifices to achieve it. 

Brendan


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## Ihana (10 Oct 2016)

I thought the article was terribly patronising also.  There is a cohort of people in precarious work (but never not working) for whom property ownership seems to be forever just out of reach.  This can be for any number of reasons, but often not because they are careless with their finances.


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## Delboy (10 Oct 2016)

Ihana said:


> I thought the article was terribly patronising also.  There is a cohort of people in precarious work (but never not working) for whom property ownership seems to be forever just out of reach.  This can be for any number of reasons, but often not because they are careless with their finances.


I think the #1 reason is because they are in 'precarious work'! I don't think Banks should lend to people in that situation as they may require bailing out later on


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## Ceist Beag (10 Oct 2016)

SS expert said:


> I don't think people should have to give up things like gym/clubs





SS expert said:


> In general that level of savings is not a realistic goal for the masses, I would even struggle to save anywhere near that and I'm a saver...


Do you not see the correlation between these two positions? If you're not prepared to sacrifice a bit (e.g. swap gym membership with a run in the park) then you haven't really accepted what is required to achieve the level of savings needed.


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## SS expert (10 Oct 2016)

Ceist Beag said:


> Do you not see the correlation between these two positions? If you're not prepared to sacrifice a bit (e.g. swap gym membership with a run in the park) then you haven't really accepted what is required to achieve the level of savings needed.



I understand what the point of the CB & Brendan is. (To demonstrate that it does not take that long to save for a deposit) 
BUT its completely theoretical. Going by that logic why not move into parents house for 2 years and save an additional 15k/year and then you will have the deposit even quicker... 

What is the average savings for someone taking home pay of 24k, 36k and 48k? I would like to see this...

A run in the park still costs money 300+ easily a year + physio trips...


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## Brendan Burgess (10 Oct 2016)

SS expert said:


> BUT its completely theoretical.Going by that logic why not move into parents house for 2 years and save an additional 15k/year and then you will have the deposit even quicker...



You know what? Many people do just that. 

I have no idea why you consider it theoretical? 

The Central Bank took the figures from all the available sources including the Insolvency Services Reasonable Living Expenses and worked out that, contrary to public opinion, people who are serious about saving can get the deposit together in a reasonably short time. 

Brendan


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## SS expert (10 Oct 2016)

Brendan Burgess said:


> You know what? Many people do just that.
> 
> I have no idea why you consider it theoretical?
> The Central Bank took the figures from all the available sources including the Insolvency Services Reasonable Living Expenses and worked out that, contrary to public opinion, people who are serious about saving can get the deposit together in a reasonably short time.
> ...



Yes many people do it, I agree no problem but the majority don't.

Do you honestly think the vast majority who want to buy a house will save to that level.


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## PGF2016 (10 Oct 2016)

SS expert said:


> Do you honestly think the vast majority who want to buy a house will save to that level.



No the vast majority won't save to that level. But they could and some would say should. 

The cohort of people being discussed (FTB with decent wages) can pretty much afford anything, e.g. BMW, 2 holidays a year, dining out every week, house in SCD. What they need to realize is that they can't afford everything. There has to be a compromise. 



SS expert said:


> A run in the park still costs money 300+ easily a year + physio trips...



300 a year on what exactly? And why is a physio needed?


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## SS expert (10 Oct 2016)

That's why its theoretical and not realistic.... the stuff of fantasy... you cant base economic policy on the study...

2 pairs of runners assuming your mileage is high enough to wear the first out, tops, shorts, winter running clothes
Why is a physio needed.... running is a high impact sport... most runners will get some sort of injury in any one year.


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## Brendan Burgess (10 Oct 2016)

PGF2016 said:


> The cohort of people being discussed (FTB with decent wages) can pretty much afford anything, e.g. BMW, 2 holidays a year, dining out every week, house in SCD. What they need to realize is that they can't afford everything.



That is a really good point.  They can afford anything, but they can't afford everything. Don't be surprised if you see that line popping up in an article or radio debate. 

Brendan


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## PGF2016 (10 Oct 2016)

SS expert said:


> That's why its theoretical and not realistic.... the stuff of fantasy... you cant base economic policy on the study...
> 
> 2 pairs of runners assuming your mileage is high enough to wear the first out, tops, shorts, winter running clothes
> Why is a physio needed.... running is a high impact sport... most runners will get some sort of injury in any one year.



As has already been said the study is not theoretical because people can do it and have done it. I am one of those people and I know of others who have done the same. If only people would realize that not having two cars / foreign holidays etc does not drastically reduce your quality of life / happiness. 

Also, I'm a frequent (and sometimes high mileage) runner. I've rotated two pairs of runners since 2013 with one injury since then (due to not warming up adequately). You don't have to buy two pairs a year because Nike / Adidas / Reebok tells you.


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## Brendan Burgess (16 May 2017)

Yet, again I am ahead of the curve. 

Some young Australian has said the same thing, and there is uproar over it.

https://www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/2017/may/15/australian-millionaire-millennials-avocado-toast-house

Brendan


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## Delboy (16 May 2017)

He's not your average young Australian though....he's a millionaire property developer who has skin in the game


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## elcato (16 May 2017)

Delboy said:


> He's not your average young Australian though....he's a millionaire property developer who has skin in the game



This line suggests he wasn't always 
_
When I was trying to buy my first home, I wasn’t buying smashed avocado for $19 and four coffees at $4 each,” he said. “We’re at a point now where the expectations of younger people are very, very high.”_


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## odyssey06 (16 May 2017)

There's a lot of people struggling to pay the rent and save a deposit that don't even know what a smashed avocado is... is there is a significant issue with smashed avocado addiction down under? 
I assume it's code for some sort of legal or illegal high as otherwise I can only conclude the chap is living on a different plant to this one.


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## aprentice (16 May 2017)

First marmite , Fosters then Avocado toast 
Ozzys sure do have weird taste


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## Steven Barrett (16 May 2017)

I was reading that report this morning and thinking I must try this crushed avocado on toast with crumbled feta cheese 

He's a bit simplistic in what he said anyway. Property prices are absolutely nuts in Australia and lots of young people are deciding to rent in areas they want to live in rather than buy somewhere miles away. A lot of Irish people do the same after seeing people just buy anywhere during the Celtic Tiger and get lumbered with long commutes from places they don't want to live. 


Steven 
www.bluewaterfp.ie


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## John Sipos (25 May 2017)

SS expert said:


> I don't think people should have to give up things like gym/clubs
> 
> The central banks report was full of unrealistic targets too.
> If people could save that amount why not wait 10-15 years and buy 100% cash.
> ...



If you did give up the gym/clubs, you might save some money but what about health costs and loss of those happy endorphins you get from the gym? Benefit definitely outweighs the cost, plus there is cheap enough gym membership out there, just gotta shop around.

The central banks report was unrealistic, like you said you could just save for a few years and pay in cash (which they wouldn't like one bit either, no interest for them).

Article was clearly written by someone who does not need to count pennies but thinks he can lecture others on how to do so. 

I think the best way to save money is just downgrade, don't try and fail to give up coffee, just get used to making your own instant stuff, buy the same stuff in Aldi as you would in M&S. Here are some more places to get ideas from, that are actually realistic.


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## Brendan Burgess (25 May 2017)

John Sipos said:


> I think the best way to save money is just downgrade,



That is clearly the message in the article. It's not that someone should stop drinking coffee. It's that they should stop paying €3.50 every day for a cup in a coffee shop.

Brendan


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## jdwex (25 May 2017)

John Sipos said:


> I think the best way to save money is just downgrade, don't try and fail to give up coffee, just get used to making your own instant stuff,



Good grief, no way. You can buy an ok espresso machine for 80 euro at the moment. 
[broken link removed]


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## newtothis (25 May 2017)

Brendan Burgess said:


> That is clearly the message in the article. It's not that someone should stop drinking coffee. It's that they should stop paying €3.50 every day for a cup in a coffee shop.
> 
> Brendan



Please do NOT follow this advice.

Disclaimer: my (thankfully, successful) business depends on a steady stream of people who spend that and more with us every working day of the week……


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## Steven Barrett (25 May 2017)

Had said crushed avocado and feta cheese on toast (vienna bread with poppy seeds) at the weekend. Very nice but missing something. Might have needed a bit more pepper. 


Steven 
www.bluewaterfp.ie


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## Firefly (25 May 2017)

Brendan Burgess said:


> That is clearly the message in the article. It's not that someone should stop drinking coffee. It's that they should stop paying €3.50 every day for a cup in a coffee shop.
> 
> Brendan



I think it's a case of "mind the pennies and the pounds look after themselves" with this. Skipping a cup of coffee at €3.50 every day would yield 1,274 in a year, which is pretty immaterial in the grand scheme of things. However, it's the concept of prudence that's important. Keeping a low profile, forgoing the gym and any travel and ditching all take-aways would make a difference to savings in no time. 

I don't think it's a problem specifically for young people / millennials per se either. The era of low interest rates aka cheap credit has people of all walks of life buying shiny and new things on the never-never. It's leading to a "Because I'm worth it mentality". It seems the concept of saving for things has died a death for many.


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