# Taxi drivers (The dodgy ones)



## thedaras (16 May 2011)

Anyone see this programme on RTE?
Scary stuff going on out there..Have told my kids to never get into a taxi unless the reg is at least 2000!!Though probably wont make any difference!


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## horusd (16 May 2011)

I just just finished watching it, and a bit of the Frontline too. Isn't a absolutely shocking how those chancers get away with it? And the neck of the regulator, a public servant, refusing to make any comment or come on the program to explain what's going on. PT investigates is just great. But it makes you wonder, what on earth the people who are supposed to regulate things from banks to whatever are actually doing? 

Anecdotally I had heard yrs ago about slippin a few bob to get an NCT test, and now we know this is widespread - quelle surpris. So there's cars on the road that could kill and apparently no one is doing anything about it. I'm steaming after watching it. 

What is wrong with regulation and accountability in this country? Conor Faughnan of the AA says there's no way auditors can pick up this fraud. But how can PT do it so quickly and easily? Isn't there a manager to sign off on tests in the centre? Do they random test, do they mystery shop? arragh!


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## Delboy (16 May 2011)

is every aspect of irish life corrupt? As a mid 30's yo citizen, the last few years have really woken me up to how bad things are in this country- all remnants of innocence have long been replaced by outright cynicism....there is no point in going out of your way to do the right thing in your job or in general day to day aspects of your life.
just keep the head down, earn a living to keep your family comfortable and feck all else, and if that means turning a blind eye etc , then so be it

there was nothing in the show tonight which surprised me. The NCT stories have been doing the rounds for a while. And everyone knows how bad the taxi industry has become...I keep on to my wife/sisters/female friends to never ever get/stay in a taxi on their own. I even go out of my way now to avoid having to get one by arranging to get lifts home etc
It was interesting to see Conor Faughan and Noel Brett on the back foot...2 silver tongued chaps who usually have plenty to say but were caught out badly tonight. Especially Brett. 
The regulators office just seems to be another case of bad regulation and waste of public cash....public servants promoted to jobs they are not able for and have no interest in transforming because of the culture they have encountered throughout their careers. But doubt if the private sector would make a better job of it either


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## SlurrySlump (17 May 2011)

In the show it said that the Gardai investigated the NCT four times and found nothing. Prime Time did it once and found a can of worms. You will get your speeding ticket on the Stillorgan Road easy enough though... but as for unroadworthy taxis and drivers, forget it. The decent people in this country have been screwed over and over again. I totally agree with Delboy in what he says above. The tossers have won.


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## truthseeker (17 May 2011)

thedaras said:


> Have told my kids to never get into a taxi unless the reg is at least 2000!!


 


Delboy said:


> I keep on to my wife/sisters/female friends to never ever get/stay in a taxi on their own.


 


SlurrySlump said:


> In the show it said that the Gardai investigated the NCT four times and found nothing. Prime Time did it once and found a can of worms.


 
The best advice you can give someone re getting a taxi is to get into a newish car, only use a car that actually has a company name on the roof sign - those with just a number are independants and not affiliated with any taxi company so much harder to track down if necessary, and tell whoever is getting a taxi alone to text or phone the taxi number (on the roof sign or displayed inside the car) to a friend or family member - and let the driver know you are doing it.

There is no need to be scared to take a taxi, but a small bit of sense goes a long way.


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## shnaek (17 May 2011)

SlurrySlump said:


> The decent people in this country have been screwed over and over again. I totally agree with Delboy in what he says above. The tossers have won.


What more can we expect in a country that actively rewards irresponsibility, and actively punishes responsibility? There can only be one outcome.


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## Yorrick (17 May 2011)

The Irish people connive with all these forms of law breaking. Employing tradesmen and paying cash, Employing cleaners and paying cash, driving "with only a few pints Why dont they catch the boy racers".
Donations to get little "thicko" Johnny in to the "right" school. 
And thats only the start. We deserve everything we get


shnaek 
Frequent Poster
 Posts: 520 



Quote:
Originally Posted by *SlurrySlump* http://www.askaboutmoney.com/showthread.php?p=1168288#post1168288 
_The decent people in this country have been screwed over and over again. I totally agree with Delboy in what he says above. The tossers have won._

What more can we expect in a country that actively rewards irresponsibility, and actively punishes responsibility? There can only be one outcome.


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## thedaras (17 May 2011)

Re the NCT test,surely it would be simple enough to have a record of each test that each NCT inspector has passed and also how many they failed,there should be  a certain amount that are passed and failed and if one or two of the inspectors are outside these numbers their work should be randomly tested.

I have lost faith in the NCT test,Im just not sure anymore if I can trust them to actually test the car correctly,whose to say they dont really bother to check under the car correctly..

There are several issues raised,one being the NCT,another the Taxis double jobbing and the state of the Taxis..and giving out a Taxi plate to anyone who has 150e or less!

I have personally heard and seen the racism of some taxi drivers and it is unbelievable..and scary.

The whole thing needs to be overhauled..there was supposed to be some restricion or ban on cars that were 9 years or older but there was such a fuss caused that it was reversed,,vested interests ??

The state of some of the cars is beyond a joke,and the state of some of the drivers is frankly embarrassing..and on the other hand there are drivers who have immaculate cars and look sharp themselves..
As always in this country its the few dodgy ones ,who ruin things for others.
Going forward..I dont think so ..we seem to be in reverse!


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## Mpsox (17 May 2011)

Firstly, credit where credit is due, full marks to RTE for this programme. 

On the NCT, we all know it's a pain but if it's done right, it does take dangerous cars off the roads. I'm a firm believer in the saying, you get what you inspect, so who inspects the NCT testers to see that they are doing their jobs correctly, and who inspects the company doing the job. I work for an outsourcer and my clients can(and do) come in and audit me thoroughly every year, with minimal notice if they want to. I don't know if that happens with the NCT but the testing staff did not seem scared to take money. The big issue to me is who is actually in charge?, we have the Dept of Transport, the RSA, the NTA, the NRA, the taxi regulator and yet these things can happen.


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## Leper (18 May 2011)

Five NCT people suspended yesterday.  A welcome and fast move.  Pity the same could not be done with some senior bankers.


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## horusd (18 May 2011)

Leper said:


> Five NCT people suspended yesterday. A welcome and fast move. Pity the same could not be done with some senior bankers.


 
Great. But how on earth are they only finding this out now. Surely as a major internional company this isn't a new phenomenon?  Surely they considered the possibility of this happening and made provision for checks and random  but intense supervision? 

And what can we make of the taxi regulator? Well paid and totally ineffective with just 9 inspectors. 30 million income in the last four years what have they being doing with the money? 

Well done Prime Time. Part of the 30 million given to the regulator should be given to them. They are the only effective regulation happening in this country that the public can trust. Imagine what they would expose with an extra few bob?


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## Slash (18 May 2011)

horusd said:


> Great. But how on earth are they only finding this out now.



They're not.

"It (Applus) had already dismissed five other staff for breaches of this code over the last year, unrelated to the current allegations." Irish Times 18 May 2011.

Check your facts and give credit where credit is due.

Five sackings in 12 months,and five suspensions seems like an awful lot in a company that size, does it not? Seems like the company were aware of this problem and had taken some action to deal with it.


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## horusd (18 May 2011)

So slash they were so successful that PTI could uncover two different testers willing to take a few bob in a short investigation? So good at supervision that the systems employed could let two deathtraps, one with the engine almost ready to fall out, pass the NCT. Give me a break. There is no excuse for this. a quick review by a supervisor as cars are inspected would have prevented this. How come that apparently comes as news to them? They will earn 400 million from the NCT, is that not enough to deploy proper audit systems?


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## terrontress (18 May 2011)

I remember taking my car up to the NCT centre at Deansgrange. A very pleasant guy doing the test but he had an Eastern European accent. Failed on a small matter, bought the car back a few days later, another guy with an Eastern European accent.

EU, free movement of labour. What's wrong with an Eastern European accent?

About six out of eight cars in the staff car park with Polish, Czech and Hungarian numberplates.

I know that Customs have been good at sorting out the issues with non-registered cars in the intervening period but I just remember wondering how many of the cars of the people doing the testing have been tested.


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## dereko1969 (18 May 2011)

terrontress said:


> I remember taking my car up to the NCT centre at Deansgrange. A very pleasant guy doing the test but he had an Eastern European accent. Failed on a small matter, bought the car back a few days later, another guy with an Eastern European accent.
> 
> EU, free movement of labour. What's wrong with an Eastern European accent?
> 
> ...


 
Legally speaking they're allowed keep their vehicles registerd in their home country once they can show ties to their home country, which can be as little as going home for Christmas.


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## Slash (18 May 2011)

dereko1969 said:


> Legally speaking they're allowed keep their vehicles registerd in their home country once they can show ties to their home country, which can be as little as going home for Christmas.



Really? are you sure?

I know this has been discussed many times on AAM.

The Revenue website is very clear that if you are coming to Ireland to take up residence, as opposed to a tourist on holiday, you are required to re register the vehicle immediately.

Where does it say you can keep a foreign registration if you have ties to that country?


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## micmclo (18 May 2011)

That minibus had it's yellow sticker out of date, well children are not going to check

If I'm in a taxi it's just something I check every time
If something seems dodgy you can get your mobile and write a text to yourself with the details.

I watched the frontline and the drivers had something planned to mark 36 driver suicides. Obviously sad for their comrades.
But they seems to bang on about this a lot, same on Joe Duffy show. And during the goverment protests last years there were a few youtube videos of a taxi union rep banging on about the regulator and suicide.
I think it's a bit of emotional blackmail, almost making the regulator responsible for suicide. 
And then Pat Kenny rightly called the driver out when he wanted the Queen to address their issues

Suicide is a tragedy, it's not something to be used for point scoring in debates


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## Leo (18 May 2011)

horusd said:


> So slash they were so successful that PTI could uncover two different testers willing to take a few bob in a short investigation?


 
While agreeing that there are significant failings here, the Gardai investigated 4 times and could find nothing wrong. Perhaps that says as much about the Gardai though! But it should be noted that the Prime Time investigation took months to complete. People are always more willing to speak off the record to the likes of PT than they are to make statements to the Gardai. 
Leo


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## Leo (18 May 2011)

Slash said:


> Really? are you sure?
> 
> I know this has been discussed many times on AAM.
> 
> ...


 
http://www.revenue.ie/en/tax/vrt/faqs-vrt.html#section41



> an EC Member State resident living/working in Ireland is entitled to bring their unregistered vehicle into Ireland for a maximum period of 12 months (which may be extended on application to the Revenue Commissioners)


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## Sunny (18 May 2011)

Leo said:


> While agreeing that there are significant failings here, the Gardai investigated 4 times and could find nothing wrong. Perhaps that says as much about the Gardai though! But it should be noted that the Prime Time investigation took months to complete. People are always more willing to speak off the record to the likes of PT than they are to make statements to the Gardai.
> Leo


 
Also are the Gardai able to mount sting operations like Prime Time did to obtain evidence? I have my doubts that they are.


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## Complainer (18 May 2011)

Sunny said:


> Also are the Gardai able to mount sting operations like Prime Time did to obtain evidence? I have my doubts that they are.


I was thinking about the same question. I have heard of them buying drugs from dealers in the past and convicting the dealers based on the evidence of the Garda who bought the drugs. I'm not sure if there is a general rule or legislation about this.

The AA have the contract to test the NCT service. They do this by bringing known dodgy cars to various test centres and verifying the test results.


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## Firefly (18 May 2011)

Some good points there. I was listening to the Taxi Regulator yesterday on Matt Cooper and she was basically deflecting responsibility to the gardai and others for all questions she was asked. Surely the Taxi Regulator should be the one organising these spot checks...ie regulating the industry?


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## Complainer (18 May 2011)

Firefly said:


> Some good points there. I was listening to the Taxi Regulator yesterday on Matt Cooper and she was basically deflecting responsibility to the gardai and others for all questions she was asked. Surely the Taxi Regulator should be the one organising these spot checks...ie regulating the industry?


All depends on what the legislation says. If the legislation doesn't give the Regulator any power to regulate the condition of the vehicles, there is nothing she can do.


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## horusd (18 May 2011)

Sunny said:


> Also are the Gardai able to mount sting operations like Prime Time did to obtain evidence? I have my doubts that they are.



I was wondering this myself. Perhaps entrapment would be an issue for an Garda? But they must have some ways around this


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## DB74 (18 May 2011)

3 NCT staff have been dismissed

http://www.rte.ie/news/2011/0518/taxi.html


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## Delboy (18 May 2011)

anyone know what the Regulator gets paid (wages and expenses) and how much her office costs to run per year? It must be 1 easy life in that office
Also- apart from Prime Time....are there any investigative journalists in this country???? Surely stories like this would be manna from heaven for a tabloid journalist. Ask the right questions, meet the right people, a few hidden cameras and a bit of staking out of targets etc....no major expense and you have a story which could run for a few days and sell a lot of extra copies


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## Firefly (19 May 2011)

Complainer said:


> All depends on what the legislation says. If the legislation doesn't give the Regulator any power to regulate the condition of the vehicles, there is nothing she can do.


 
Even if the regulator didn't have these powers legally, I would have thought that they would be tasked with arranging this to be done by the relevant authority....co-ordinating the various tasks to be done by a regulator (even if they can't actually perform them themselves).


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## Complainer (19 May 2011)

Delboy said:


> anyone know what the Regulator gets paid (wages and expenses) and how much her office costs to run per year? It must be 1 easy life in that office



Yeah, dealing with death threats and bullets in the post is definitely '1 easy life'. [broken link removed]

Check out her annual report if you want cost details.


Delboy said:


> Also- apart from Prime Time....are there any investigative journalists in this country???? Surely stories like this would be manna from heaven for a tabloid journalist. Ask the right questions, meet the right people, a few hidden cameras and a bit of staking out of targets etc....no major expense and you have a story which could run for a few days and sell a lot of extra copies



Isn't it funny how everyone else's job is really easy, but you never bother changing career into one of these 'easy life' jobs yourself?



Firefly said:


> Even if the regulator didn't have these powers legally, I would have thought that they would be tasked with arranging this to be done by the relevant authority....co-ordinating the various tasks to be done by a regulator (even if they can't actually perform them themselves).


They'd be acting ultra-vires if they go beyond their legal powers, and will find themselves injuncted at the drop of a hat.


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## Firefly (19 May 2011)

Complainer said:


> They'd be acting ultra-vires if they go beyond their legal powers, and will find themselves injuncted at the drop of a hat.



That's probably true alright. However it begs the question as to why the legal powers weren't granted to the regulator in the first place...not much point having a toothless regulator.


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## Complainer (19 May 2011)

Firefly said:


> However it begs the question as to why the legal powers weren't granted to the regulator in the first place...not much point having a toothless regulator.


Maybe somebody (who knows a bit more about it than you or me) felt that it made more sense to let the Gardai continue to use their existing powers to enforce the safety issues, then to build a whole new legal infrastructure for the regulator and their staff.


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## Firefly (19 May 2011)

Complainer said:


> Maybe somebody (who knows a bit more about it than you or me) felt that it made more sense to let the Gardai continue to use their existing powers to enforce the safety issues, then to build a whole new legal infrastructure for the regulator and their staff.



I take the point, but without authority you cannot have responsibility, so the regulator is in effect toothless in this function.


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## DB74 (19 May 2011)

Complainer said:


> Maybe somebody (who knows a bit more about it than you or me) felt that it made more sense to let the Gardai continue to use their existing powers to enforce the safety issues, then to build a whole new legal infrastructure for the regulator and their staff.



That's one way of looking at it

Another way is that all these regulators (banking is another example) were set up by the prevailing governments of the day as a sop to public sentiment at the time in order to garner votes for the next 5-year merry-go-round.

As far as I can see the 2 mentioned merely pay lip service to what the general public actually believe a regulator should do, ie regulate.


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## Complainer (19 May 2011)

Firefly said:


> I take the point, but without authority you cannot have responsibility, so the regulator is in effect toothless in this function.



The Regulator is indeed toothless in this function, just as she is toothless on health and safety matters, on VAT matters, on copyright matters, on wireless frequency signal matters, on environmental pollution matters, on equality matters and on a whole lot of other matters.

She leaves the Health & Safety Authority, Revenue, the Courts, ComReg, EPA, and Equality Tribunal and of course the Gardai to continue to look after their existing responsibilities, and she concentrates on the core taxi business.

So are you really, really certain that we'd be better off with a stronger regulator, duplicating the existing functions of all these other agencies?



DB74 said:


> That's one way of looking at it
> 
> Another way is that all these regulators (banking is another example) were set up by the prevailing governments of the day as a sop to public sentiment at the time in order to garner votes for the next 5-year merry-go-round.
> 
> As far as I can see the 2 mentioned merely pay lip service to what the general public actually believe a regulator should do, ie regulate.



That's one way of looking at it. Another way of looking at it is that the Govt set up a fairly effecient process that allows the Taxi Regulator to concentrate on core taxi-related matters and leaves other existing bodies to continue to concentrate on their own core areas. 

It's always mildly amusing for me to see the absolute confidence of the AAM hurlers-on-the-ditch that they know so much more about these matters than the people who work in the area every day.


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## thedaras (19 May 2011)

Complainer said:


> She leaves the Health & Safety Authority, Revenue, the Courts, ComReg, EPA, and Equality Tribunal and of course the Gardai to continue to look after their existing responsibilities, and she concentrates on the core taxi business..



WOW .so many more people not doing what they ought to do,than I originally thought!!


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## Complainer (19 May 2011)

thedaras said:


> WOW .so many more people not doing what they ought to do,than I originally thought!!


Would you like to explain how you concluded that they are 'not doing what they ought to do'?


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## Firefly (19 May 2011)

Complainer said:


> The Regulator is indeed toothless in this function, just as she is toothless on health and safety matters, on VAT matters, on copyright matters, on wireless frequency signal matters, on environmental pollution matters, on equality matters and on a whole lot of other matters.
> 
> She leaves the *Health & Safety Authority*, Revenue, the Courts, ComReg, *EPA*, and Equality Tribunal and of course the *Gardai* to continue to look after their existing responsibilities, and she concentrates on the core taxi business.




Swift action from the company running the NCT tests...3 people sacked 

 [broken link removed] 

 I wonder will there be any sackings from the identities listed above?




Complainer said:


> So are you really, really certain that we'd be better off with a stronger regulator, duplicating the existing functions of all these other agencies?



What's the point in having a regulator if they can't regulate? Maybe they should be renamed to something more apt like The Taxi Quango?


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## Firefly (19 May 2011)

Complainer said:


> Would you like to explain how you concluded that they are 'not doing what they ought to do'?



The issue here is that there are so many identities that the buck cannot stop anywhere. The Taxi Regulator should IMO be ultimately responsible for all of these. This way, the TR would make sure that the guards did their job, the NCT testers did their job and so on.


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## RonanC (19 May 2011)

Didnt the powers of the Taxi Regulator move to the National Transport Authority as from the 1st January 2011?


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## RonanC (19 May 2011)

Firefly said:


> The issue here is that there are so many identities that the buck cannot stop anywhere. The Taxi Regulator should IMO be ultimately responsible for all of these. This way, the TR would make sure that the guards did their job, the NCT testers did their job and so on.


 
How can the Taxi Regulator (If this position still exists?) be responsible for the NCT testers doing their job?

The NCT is for all privately owned vehicles in the State and a Taxi Regulator cannot have any interference in this. This is the responsibility of the NTA and the Minister for Transport.


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## Firefly (19 May 2011)

RonanC said:


> How can the Taxi Regulator (If this position still exists?) be responsible for the NCT testers doing their job?
> 
> The NCT is for all privately owned vehicles in the State and a Taxi Regulator cannot have any interference in this. This is the responsibility of the NTA and the Minister for Transport.



Shouldn't the Taxi Regulator be conducting their own audits/reviews to ensure that these backhanders are not being done to get cars passed?


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## RonanC (19 May 2011)

Firefly said:


> Shouldn't the Taxi Regulator be conducting their own audits/reviews to ensure that these backhanders are not being done to get cars passed?


 
The car that was passed (black Toyota) in the Prime Time show was a private car and there was no mention of it being a taxi. The NCT should be regulated and audited correctly for all Private vehicles and this includes Taxi's and Hackney's. Why should two organisations (or three if you include the Gardai) or four if you include the AA, be responsible for this when the NTA is the sole authority currently responsible.


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## Firefly (19 May 2011)

RonanC said:


> The car that was passed (black Toyota) in the Prime Time show was a private car and there was no mention of it being a taxi. The NCT should be regulated and audited correctly for all Private vehicles and this includes Taxi's and Hackney's. *Why should two organisations (or three if you include the Gardai) or four if you include the AA, be responsible for this when the NTA is the sole authority currently responsible.*



I agree...and I don't really care whether it's the Taxi Regulator or the NTA, but someone must be responsible here for this failing.


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## RonanC (19 May 2011)

Firefly said:


> I agree...and I don't really care whether it's the Taxi Regulator or the NTA, but someone must be responsible here for this failing.


 
There is, the NTA and in turn the Minister for Transport - Leo Varadkar, who only this morning said that investigations are under way, by the Gardai and by his Department and the NTA. 

It must be noted that Applus(contract provider for NCT) initially ignored requests from Prime Time in relation to the programme and only instigated an invetsigation when the hay hit the fan. I would imagine that their contract will be reviewed now.  

I'm also still not sure why Kathleen Doyle is being mentioned in the press when as far as I know her powers were dissolved at the start of the year. The NTA are 100% responsible for Taxi Regulation now.


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## RonanC (19 May 2011)

As a side note, 

I'm very surprised that the Prime Time show failed to mention the well known fact/suspicion of Taxi's being used to courier drugs around the city/country.


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## Firefly (19 May 2011)

RonanC said:


> There is, the NTA and in turn the Minister for Transport - Leo Varadkar, who only this morning said that investigations are under way, by the Gardai and by his Department and the NTA.
> 
> It must be noted that Applus(contract provider for NCT) initially ignored requests from Prime Time in relation to the programme and only instigated an invetsigation when the hay hit the fan. I would imagine that their contract will be reviewed now.
> 
> I'm also still not sure why Kathleen Doyle is being mentioned in the press when as far as I know her powers were dissolved at the start of the year. The NTA are 100% responsible for Taxi Regulation now.



Thanks for that...clarifies for me who is responsible and what they are doing about it.


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## DB74 (19 May 2011)

Complainer said:


> That's one way of looking at it. Another way of looking at it is that the Govt set up a fairly effecient process that allows the Taxi Regulator to concentrate on core taxi-related matters and leaves other existing bodies to continue to concentrate on their own core areas.
> 
> It's always mildly amusing for me to see the absolute confidence of the AAM hurlers-on-the-ditch that they know so much more about these matters than the people who work in the area every day.



If all these "experts" were doing their jobs correctly we would have no need for Prime Time investigations which means that

a. the relevant legislation IS in place in which case the regulator wasn't doing his or her job correctly, or

b. the government of the day failed to give the regulator the necessary powers to enable them to regulate the industry properly

I don't like hurling BTW


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## Complainer (19 May 2011)

Firefly said:


> Swift action from the company running the NCT tests...3 people sacked
> 
> [broken link removed]
> 
> I wonder will there be any sackings from the identities listed above?


Would you care to be more specific, and identify what person/role(s) should now be sacked in these bodies?



Firefly said:


> What's the point in having a regulator if they can't regulate? Maybe they should be renamed to something more apt like The Taxi Quango?


They can and do regulate the core taxi business - licences, training, quality of service, overcharging etc. They don't have legal responsibility for every possible taxi issue.



Firefly said:


> The issue here is that there are so many identities that the buck cannot stop anywhere. The Taxi Regulator should IMO be ultimately responsible for all of these. This way, the TR would make sure that the guards did their job, the NCT testers did their job and so on.


Right, so now the Gardai should be reporting operationally to the Taxi Regulator, and to every other regulator as well in case of crime in their areas? That's just a mess. You're digging a big hole for yourself here. Stop digging.


Firefly said:


> Shouldn't the Taxi Regulator be conducting their own audits/reviews to ensure that these backhanders are not being done to get cars passed?


So tell us what kind of reviews would you propose to ensure that backhanders are not being done? How will you guarantee 100% compliance with the law in this case (or in any other case)?


DB74 said:


> If all these "experts" were doing their jobs correctly we would have no need for Prime Time investigations which means that
> 
> a. the relevant legislation IS in place in which case the regulator wasn't doing his or her job correctly, or
> 
> b. the government of the day failed to give the regulator the necessary powers to enable them to regulate the industry properly


Or else it means that sometimes, people break the law. Sheesh, is it the Gardai's fault every time you break the speed limit?


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## DB74 (19 May 2011)

Complainer said:


> Or else it means that sometimes, people break the law. Sheesh, is it the Gardai's fault every time you break the speed limit?




You can be as flippant about it all you like but if someone continually and constantly breaks the law (eg speeding) without punishment then yes it is the relevant authorities fault if the systems that are in place are not adequate to catch that person and punish them appropriately

I would have thought that was obvious


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## Firefly (19 May 2011)

Complainer said:


> Would you care to be more specific, and identify what person/role(s) should now be sacked in these bodies?



That's my point...there are so many bodies it's impossible

[/QUOTE]



Complainer said:


> Right, so now the Gardai should be reporting operationally to the Taxi Regulator, and to every other regulator as well in case of crime in their areas? That's just a mess. You're digging a big hole for yourself here. Stop digging.



I never said the gardai should be reporting to the Taxi Regulator...the Taxi Regulator should be driving this. They are meant to be regulating the industry so they should be meeting with all the other bodies on a regular basis to determine if all's healthy in the taxi business. 




Complainer said:


> So tell us w*hat kind of reviews would you propose to ensure that backhanders are not being done*? How will you guarantee 100% compliance with the law in this case (or in any other case)?



Maybe the Taxi Regulator should pick up the phone to the Prime Time researchers and find out?


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## Complainer (19 May 2011)

DB74 said:


> You can be as flippant about it all you like but if someone continually and constantly breaks the law (eg speeding) without punishment then yes it is the relevant authorities fault if the systems that are in place are not adequate to catch that person and punish them appropriately
> 
> I would have thought that was obvious



OK, so let's think this through. Every day, I see drivers breaking the speed limit and talking on their mobile phones around Dublin. So please let me know who specifically you want to be sacked? And who you expect to replace them? And how long will you leave the replacements in place before they too are sacked? And when all the Gardai get absolutely focused on speed checks and mobile phone checks, what do you think is going to happen to other types of crimes? And who will you sack when those other types of crimes go up? I really do want to see how that sacking thing is going to improve things.



Firefly said:


> That's my point...there are so many bodies it's impossible


That's a cop-out. The responsibility for regulation is perfectly clear in law. Responsibility for safety of the vehicles lies with the Gardai - so again, please get off the fence and specify what person/role should be sacked for this?


Firefly said:


> I never said the gardai should be reporting to the Taxi Regulator...the Taxi Regulator should be driving this. They are meant to be regulating the industry so they should be meeting with all the other bodies on a regular basis to determine if all's healthy in the taxi business.


So the regulator should be meeting with, and working with the Gardai to regulate the industry? Brilliant idea, now why didn't someone think of that before the AAM armchair experts came up with it? Ooops - they did!
From http://www.transport.ie/upload/general/3739-0.pdf "The membership of the 16 member Council will be drawn from representatives of the taxi, hackney and limousine industry, local authorities, *the Gardai*, consumer, disability, tourism and business interests".
From [broken link removed] "Members of the Commission for Taxi Regulation's enforcement team, backed up by a team of *Gardai*, swooped on Navan at the weekend to check that the taxis operating in the town were complying with their licensing regulations.The high-profile presence of the enforcement team and *Gardai *spent two nights, Friday and Saturday, stopping and checking taxis on the streets and taxi ranks of the town. The Commission for Taxi Regulation this week confirmed that it visited Navan as part of its an ongoing national operation in conjunction with *An Garda Síochána*. The Commission undertakes a number of joint enforcement operations around the country throughout the year."



Firefly said:


> Maybe the Taxi Regulator should pick up the phone to the Prime Time researchers and find out?


Not really. The Prime Time methods will never prove that "these backhanders are not being done to get cars passed". If they failed to get a car through, this would just prove that Prime Time failed to get a car through. So please do detail what kind of audits/checks you are proposing to ensure that " these backhanders are not being done to get cars passed"?


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## Firefly (20 May 2011)

Complainer said:


> That's a cop-out. The responsibility for regulation is perfectly clear in law. Responsibility for safety of the vehicles lies with the Gardai - so again, please get off the fence and specify what person/role should be sacked for this?
> 
> So the regulator should be meeting with, and working with the Gardai to regulate the industry? Brilliant idea, now why didn't someone think of that before the AAM armchair experts came up with it? Ooops - they did!
> From http://www.transport.ie/upload/general/3739-0.pdf "The membership of the 16 member Council will be drawn from representatives of the taxi, hackney and limousine industry, local authorities, *the Gardai*, consumer, disability, tourism and business interests".
> ...




Ahh I see. Nothing to see here so, move along. Do you think it's working well given the Prime Time report?


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## DB74 (20 May 2011)

Complainer said:


> OK, so let's think this through. Every day, I see drivers breaking the speed limit and talking on their mobile phones around Dublin. So please let me know who specifically you want to be sacked? And who you expect to replace them? And how long will you leave the replacements in place before they too are sacked? And when all the Gardai get absolutely focused on speed checks and mobile phone checks, what do you think is going to happen to other types of crimes? And who will you sack when those other types of crimes go up? I really do want to see how that sacking thing is going to improve things.



Where did I say I wanted people sacked?


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## thedaras (20 May 2011)

This morning a taxi driver came out of a side road near our school,he was coming at such speed in a residential area that I had to stop the car as I felt he would hit my car,he then rolls his window down,and screams and I mean screams,"ahh whats wrong with ya...I was goin to stop.I wasnt going fast..blah blah blah".

This kind of abuse among dozens of kids and parents at a school in a residential area does their image no good what so ever.

For some ,the sacking of those who do not carry out their duties seems to mean that their replacements will do no better,which is a sad reflection on how things are done here.

It seems that(Complainer :QUOTE]So the regulator should be meeting with, and working with the Gardai to regulate the industry? Brilliant idea, now why didn't someone think of that before the AAM armchair experts came up with it? Ooops - they did![/QUOTE])
has a bee in the bonnet and consistantly refers to those who have an opinion other than his, is an AAM armchair expert..I would like to ask complainer,if he thinks only experts should post their opinions? And if he is an expert on everything he comments on?.


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## Complainer (20 May 2011)

DB74 said:


> Where did I say I wanted people sacked?


Apologies, I misread your post. Still, the fundamental point still applies - What relevant authorities are 'at fault' for the 50% of drivers who broke the speed limit and 20% who used mobile phones on my commute today? The follow-up questions will go along the lines of 'do you really want a zero tolerance police state'? What extra taxes are you prepared to pay to fund this police state?



thedaras said:


> This morning a taxi driver came out of a side road near our school,he was coming at such speed in a residential area that I had to stop the car as I felt he would hit my car,he then rolls his window down,and screams and I mean screams,"ahh whats wrong with ya...I was goin to stop.I wasnt going fast..blah blah blah".
> 
> This kind of abuse among dozens of kids and parents at a school in a residential area does their image no good what so ever.


It is terrible to see this kind of driving around kids, from taxi drivers or other drivers. Did you report him to the Gardai or the regulator?



thedaras said:


> For some ,the sacking of those who do not carry out their duties seems to mean that their replacements will do no better,which is a sad reflection on how things are done here.


No, it is a reflection of the fact that there is no appetite here for a zero tolerance police state.



thedaras said:


> It seems that(Complainer ) has a bee in the bonnet and consistantly refers to those who have an opinion other than his, is an AAM armchair expert..


That's wrong. I do NOT consistently refer to them as armchair experts. Sometimes I refer to them as barstool experts.



thedaras said:


> I would like to ask complainer,if he thinks only experts should post their opinions? And if he is an expert on everything he comments on?.


 I think people should consdier their own lack of knowledge before jumping to conclusions. Just think about how much the average man on the street knows about your role or profession, and how much they could usefully contribute to telling you how to do your job, and that's about as much the average AAM poster knows about every profession. And I promise not to mention Sid Vicious's views on the 'man in the street'.



Firefly said:


> Ahh I see. Nothing to see here so, move along. Do you think it's working well given the Prime Time report?


Clearly, it's not. But let's not kid ourselves that a few AAM posters have the solution.


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## DB74 (20 May 2011)

Complainer said:


> What relevant authorities are 'at fault' for the 50% of drivers who broke the speed limit and 20% who used mobile phones on my commute today? The follow-up questions will go along the lines of 'do you really want a zero tolerance police state'? What extra taxes are you prepared to pay to fund this police state?



I never said I wanted a police-state. I do, however, expect either current laws to be enforced correctly and if this is not possible, then I expect better laws to be enacted to enable those who break the law to be caught and punished.

Whether it is achievable or not, we should be aiming for perfection and nothing less.




Complainer said:


> No, it is a reflection of the fact that there is no appetite here for a zero tolerance police state.



You seem to be under the impression that people either want no enforcement or a police-state type scenario. The practical reality is that virtually every single man (and woman)-on-the-street in this country wants better enforcement of the existing laws or, as I mentioned above, better laws.

It angers the ordinary man on the street when

1. He has to waste his time bringing his car back to the NCT test centre because a bulb was loose when he sees that some people just hand over a few Euro to get a death-trap passed

2. He has to tell his kids that they have to give up swimming or football because he can't afford it when he see people owing millions still being allowed to send their kids to private schools

3. He has to take a pay-cut so his job is safe for another few months when he sees people in charge of massive loss-making companies getting huge bonuses and/or severance packages

4. He sees people go to court for crimes like rape, murder, assault etc and the judiciary, who appear to hugely out of touch with reality in this country, see fit to impose less that the mandatory minimum sentence as set down in law, because of extenuating circumstances. As far as I can see, everyone has an excuse for what they did.

The list is endless so don't try to argue that the ordinary man on the street doesn't want better enforcement of the laws




Complainer said:


> But let's not kid ourselves that a few AAM posters have the solution.



Well lets not kid ourselves that the appointed experts have the solution either.


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## Complainer (20 May 2011)

DB74 said:


> I never said I wanted a police-state. I do, however, expect either current laws to be enforced correctly and if this is not possible, then I expect better laws to be enacted to enable those who break the law to be caught and punished.
> 
> Whether it is achievable or not, we should be aiming for perfection and nothing less.


In all fairness, that's all a bit motherhood and apple pie stuff - fairly vague. I'd be interested in hearing specifically what you'd like to see happen about the 50% of drivers I see breaking the 50 kmph speed limit around the city every day?


DB74 said:


> You seem to be under the impression that people either want no enforcement or a police-state type scenario. The practical reality is that virtually every single man (and woman)-on-the-street in this country wants better enforcement of the existing laws or, as I mentioned above, better laws.
> 
> It angers the ordinary man on the street when
> 
> ...


I'll share your anger here, though I'm not quite sure I see the relevance to the taxi discussion.



DB74 said:


> Well lets not kid ourselves that the appointed experts have the solution either.


There is some truth in this, because there are some social issues that don't have any particular solution. There is always going to be some level of crime out there.


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## Delboy (20 May 2011)

Complainer said:


> Isn't it funny how everyone else's job is really easy, but you never bother changing career into one of these 'easy life' jobs yourself?



why do you feel the need to reply to so many posts that upset you!!! 
I merely pointed out that the lack of good investigative journalism in the print media is, to me, really apparent in this country. 
I have a job- it keeps me more than busy but I'll take your career advice on board for future reference if the need arises!


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## Complainer (20 May 2011)

Delboy said:


> I merely pointed out that the lack of good investigative journalism in the print media is, to me, really apparent in this country.


I wouldn't disagree with that, by and large.


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