# On lower wages than I should have been for 5 years...



## Buckethead (20 Aug 2011)

I should have been on 50 euros a week more for all them years, the company only recently increased my wage to the correct amount.

My union only copped on that I was underpaid all that time, as well as the company. 

The company refuse to give more than 6 months backpay...

I'd appreciate some feedback here, thanks.


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## Deiseblue (20 Aug 2011)

Involve the Union , ask them to raise the matter with your employer.


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## jhegarty (20 Aug 2011)

Do you have a contract giving the higher rate ?


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## Buckethead (20 Aug 2011)

The union are involved, that's how I got the recent increase, they've had talks with management, who like I've said, will not budge on 6 months maximum backpay.

The union pretty much think the only option is to go to the Labour Court, which will take 12-18 months to sort out.

And they didn't seem that confident to me that I'd win.
They said there's every chance they'll side with the company.

I'm not happy with the union at all, should they not have made sure I was on the correct rate all these years?

Is that not the least you'd expect after paying your fees?

Or am I being unreasonable?

I'm astounded this isn't an open and shut case.


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## Buckethead (20 Aug 2011)

jhegarty said:


> Do you have a contract giving the higher rate ?



The union have an official stab rates sheet for all employees during this time period...

No other employee outside of my job desciption were under this rate.


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## Deiseblue (20 Aug 2011)

The Union is unlikely to be aware of what you earn as they have no access to payroll related info for individual employees.

If the Union publish rates of pay surely you could have ascertained your salary from the info given ?

I agree that in the circumstances your best option is the Labour Court or a rights commissioner - even if you fail in your claim it's not going to cost you anything & who knows your firm may improve their offer if faced with an escalation of your claim.


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## Buckethead (20 Aug 2011)

Deiseblue said:


> The Union is unlikely to be aware of what you  earn as they have no access to payroll related info for individual  employees.



Fair enough. The Union surely, at least, told the company to make sure that all members were on the correct rate though, no?

Which would surely mean that I'm entitled to 100% of the backpay, no?

If the Union didn't do this and assumed the company would pay the correct rates, despite the possibility of them getting away with ever paying it back, in full, due to some some technicality....surely the Union have a lot to answer for?

I don't think I'm being biased when I say this is either 100% the company's fault or both the company's and the unions fault.




Deiseblue said:


> If the Union publish rates of pay surely you could have ascertained your salary from the info given ?



I never seen the rates sheet before. I always assumed my wages were _based_ on the minimum wage, so did everyone else until the rate sheets appeared a short while ago.

When I joined the union I was never told to make sure I was on that rate or anything...


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## Deiseblue (21 Aug 2011)

Let's reflect on this  - the Union have no access to your payroll information nor did you notice until recently that you were being underpaid & as such didn't make the Union aware of the shortfall.

The problem therefore lies solely with your employer & as such I reiterate that your best option is to pursue the matter further along the lines suggested by me.


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## Buckethead (21 Aug 2011)

Cheers for the replies.

Would you have any idea what the outcome would most likely be after the Labour Court deals with the matter?


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## Baggie (21 Aug 2011)

This happened to me. Underpaid for five years.

The Union asked for my money; the company pleaded inability to pay; we booked an hearing with the Labour Court. The company offered 50% of the owed monies. I wanted to fight on but the Union and the other person wanted to settle so I did.

Apparently the Laborour Court never gives a total victory - they always smudge it. 

The other options I suppose are the Small Claims Court or a court case [I doubt the Union will fund this[ which could be costly.


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## Leo (22 Aug 2011)

Baggie said:


> The other options I suppose are the Small Claims Court or a court case


 
Small Claims Court is not an option in these circumstances. They don't deal with employer/employee issues.


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## Buckethead (22 Aug 2011)

Again, cheers for the feedback.

Now then, if you were in my shoes, and say you had a few bob, would you stick with the Labour Court or go with an out and out court case?


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## Sue Ellen (22 Aug 2011)

Buckethead said:


> Again, cheers for the feedback.
> 
> Now then, if you were in my shoes, and say you had a few bob, would you stick with the Labour Court or go with an out and out court case?



Presumably after tax etc. you would get about €6,500 so IMHO it would end up costing you money.

Have you tried contact [broken link removed] to see what advice they can give you.


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## Thirsty (22 Aug 2011)

Rights Commissioner or Labour Court hearing will cost you nothing, worth you while to bring your case there, you can't be any worse off and there's a good chance your employer will settle with you before it comes up.


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## Buckethead (30 Aug 2011)

Sue Ellen said:


> Presumably after tax etc. you would get about €6,500 so IMHO it would end up costing you money.



How about if there was 7 other people from my job with the same issue?

Would it be worth it for everybody to chip in and get a solicitor to represent all of us?


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## aaa1 (31 Aug 2011)

If I was you I would take a very long hard look at the relationship between the Union and the company. If the union officials have been in that role for years, chances are they are very close to management and both parties would be happy with a quick settlement. But what's in their interests isn't necessarily in yours. I personally know if two instances where a union official urged the individuals to settle - both totally separate cases involved constructive dismissal. One went to a solicitor and began the process of going to the Employment Appeals Tribunal. He was warned he might not win it but in the end the company settled and trebled what they were originally going to give him. In the other case the individual also got legal representation and got around €50,000. Without ditching the union and going the legal route there was no way either person would have gotten the payout they did. I'm not saying the officials who represent you are the same - but you need to consider all angles. 

Perhaps the Free Legal Advice Centre might be able to give you a steer?


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## Buckethead (2 Nov 2011)

The Union are _just now_ saying that, legally, the maximum the company is obliged to pay out is 12 months backpay, and are recommending we take it.

Is there anything that can be done about that?

Is suing the Union an option?


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## Mpsox (2 Nov 2011)

Ultimately, and sorry to be so blunt here, but this is your own fault for not spotting the underpayment, it is not the unions job to check every members pay slip to make sure they are being paid correctly. You're wasteing you time thinking you have a legal case against the union, you don't. You have to take responsibility for things yourself


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## Buckethead (2 Nov 2011)

Mpsox said:


> Ultimately, and sorry to be so blunt here, but this is your own fault for not spotting the underpayment, it is not the unions job to check every members pay slip to make sure they are being paid correctly.



I don't expect them to check my wageslip every week.

The least I'd expect is for them to simply inform me what my rate should be, or tell the company to make sure I'm on that rate.

They didn't do this.


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## Purple (2 Nov 2011)

€50 a week for 5 years. That’s €13’000. That’s a lot of money in anyone’s world. It’s bad form that your employer won’t pay you what they should have given you. Have you asked them if they will repay you over 12 months?


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## Buckethead (2 Nov 2011)

They wouldn't repay the full amount over 12 years...


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## onq (2 Nov 2011)

I'm just wondering of you have a cause under the law of Fraud.
This needs competent legal advice, but it seems on first reading that the company may have defrauded you of money that was rightfully yours.

This is an important issue to purse.

A Rights Commissioner will normally only take cases within 6 months, or in special cases 12 month.
The Statute of Limitations is six years, but your loss arises 12 years ago.
As far as I know Fraud has no statue of limitations, or it runs from the date its discovered.

Talk to a solicitor.


ONQ.


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## Buckethead (2 Nov 2011)

5 years, not 12.

Thanks for the reply.


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## onq (2 Nov 2011)

Apologies, I must have misread.

In that case you're within the Statute of Limitations.

Other legal avenues may be open to you, but I'd still look at fraud.


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## Leper (3 Nov 2011)

Here is my usual cold contribution. You claim you were underpaid for years. Yet, you received a playslip every pay day. Surely, you would have noticed the amount you were being paid. Then you discover that you are being underpaid for years and now want arrears paid.

I dont know if you are under contract. I dont know whether you are in private or public sector. 

But, in the past few months I hear from a reliable source that some HSE employees who were acting in higher grade posts for years and years were upgraded, but only from a current date. Perhaps this was something involving the Croke Park Agreement. Apparently, there was a vote of workers and the union recommended acceptance and was accepted. 

If I were in your shoes I would accept a decent offer even six month arrears. You can fight the company and perhaps even win, but in the long term you could lose.


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