# Soundproofing:I can hear my neighbours.



## Reive (26 Sep 2005)

We moved into a new house over a year ago but the neighbours didn't move in for a good while later.

They are not there a lot of the time, and when they are they are generally very quite.

However sometimes:

If the tv isn't on (sometimes with it on) you can hear them talking and laughing.

You can hear them opening/closing their kitchen presses, clearing their dishes, unplugging things, moving clotheshangers etc.

The back bedroom (guestroom) is the worst, you can hear everything.

The foreman on site says that they have complied with all the relevant legislation and that we are free to have a sound check done.

Does anyone know what the legislation is? And if we get a soundcheck done and they have complied- I just think it's bloody ridiculous- that we can hear so much. The fear is the they will move and someone will move in with either loads of kids or have loads of late nite parties.

What can I do?


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## Sue Ellen (26 Sep 2005)

Hi Reive,

This key post on Insulation may provide some help especially this post.

There is a reference to noise in a new house in the key post on Noise and neighbours etc.

This other thread Noisy neighbours has quite a few interesting points/links that might be helpful.


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## DOBBER22 (26 Sep 2005)

Seems to be a very common problem with new builds, we used to rent a house before we bought our own the rented house was about 7 years old the soundproofing was so bad we could hear them flushing their toilet, running a bath, dropping things on the floor, arguing...this was a real highlight as you could hear it word for word and finally when the kids were bould you could hear the Dad shout get up dat stairs ourra my sight.
We decided to buy an older house 27 years old and thank God we have had quietness ever since even though the lady next door looks after a few kids and I work shift.

Good Luck


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## Tarquin (9 Mar 2006)

Previous


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## whiplash (14 Mar 2006)

Hi Reive,

I know all to well what you are going through.  I had/have the same problem.  I decided to do something about it and got a sound test done.  The house failed outright it wasnt near the standards I got the same crap from the foreman saying it was ABOVE standards ! My dB came in at 48 the standards state it should be 52dB, that is a big difference in terms of dBs.

After I got the sound test done they reacted straight away to it and now I'm just waiting for them to come in and fix the issue.  They're going to use a system called isostrip-T it can be found here.[broken link removed]

I can send you on all the information with regards my case if you'd like ?  Just PM me.

Don't let the builder away with it seriously, I know of another case of 1000 houses so as you can see we're not the only ones with the issue.

Regards,
/KK


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## heather (14 Mar 2006)

the residents association should be able to help you. We had a similar problem and it turned out around 80% of houses on the estate were having problems. Dont let it lie anyway


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## simp (15 Mar 2006)

whiplash said:
			
		

> They're going to use a system called isostrip-T it can be found here.[broken link removed]



How much is that isostrip-T stuff, as a matter of interest?


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## Jack The Lad (15 Mar 2006)

This might sound a little ridiculous,  but if you are having trouble sleeping with the sound from next door, as a temporary quick-fix you could try those little foam earplugs you can get in Chemists. They work really well, and after using them for a couple of nights they don't bother you. I use them when staying in hotels, B&B's.


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## whiplash (15 Mar 2006)

simp said:
			
		

> How much is that isostrip-T stuff, as a matter of interest?



I dont know how much it costs, the builder is footing the bill for the whole lot, legal fees, sound tests the lot.  But I believe its one of the most expensive solutions out there plus one of the best.


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## ftb2 (16 Mar 2006)

How did you go about getting a sound test done? Can you recommend how I would go about doing this?? I'm dealing with noise from traffic...


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## moneypitt (16 Mar 2006)

Not sure if I should start another thread on this - 'll leave it to mods.

Anyone had problems with poor soundproofing withiin your home? I have a ten year old semi-d, generally well-built (shannon homes, 1995), no major hassle from next door but I am really not happy with the soundproofing between rooms, especially toilets.

Especially when I have guests around, I wouldn’t dare use the master or en-suite toilets upstairs, because anyone downstairs in the living room can hear everything – I mean everything – not just the flushing sound, but everything. Also, when in the master bedroom, I can hear if my gf whisters in the en-suit!! You can imagine how much a turn off that is!!

Is it just me, or is it the house? Is there a DIY fix for this? Thanks a million!!


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## whiplash (16 Mar 2006)

ftb2 said:
			
		

> How did you go about getting a sound test done? Can you recommend how I would go about doing this?? I'm dealing with noise from traffic...


 
There's plenty of companies out there that do this sort of work.  I used the following company very happy with the guy that came out and did the test his name is Jim Dunne.

http://www.iacoustics.net/

/KK


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## Tedser (19 Jul 2006)

Hi Guys, if your problems have been resolved good but you could get quite a bit of technical advice at [broken link removed] as the site will explain about sound / noise and give you information about what can be done for you.
Regards
Ted


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## Leo (19 Jul 2006)

Hi Tedser, please note the Posting Guidelines, particularly  & , which require that posters declare any potential conflict of interest and state no advertising.
Leo


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## TarfHead (19 Jul 2006)

The 1997 building regulation referred to in this thread and it's twin covers new houses.

Is there anything similar/comparable in effect for houses built before 1997, i.e. if neighbours are in dispute as to what constitutes excessive noise, is there an objective measure ?


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## irishpancake (26 Jul 2006)

moneypitt said:
			
		

> Not sure if I should start another thread on this - 'll leave it to mods.
> 
> Anyone had problems with poor soundproofing withiin your home? I have a ten year old semi-d, generally well-built (shannon homes, 1995), no major hassle from next door but I am really not happy with the soundproofing between rooms, especially toilets.
> 
> ...



I'd love to hear from anyone who has had experiences as outlined above. 

I too have a similar problem, with a recently constructed timber-framed bungalow. 

Ironically, we moved here to get away from exactly the sound insulation problems which are endemic in semi-d houses.

However, we now find that sounds are transmitting internally, particularly from the bathroom to the sitting-room, which can be embarrassing when we have friends around. 

These rooms are next to each other, and literally I am speaking of "toilet" type noises, ie No 1 and 2  

Where can we start, and are these covered by building regs.


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## micamaca (26 Jul 2006)

We're in the same boat, neighbours have a child that controls them, and we hear every winge and whimper and by God there are plenty!!! 

can't wait for the next child 

when did builders start getting away with building these houses so badly? there must be thousands of them built.. and if it's not your neighbours you hear, then its yourselves in the toilet...i have same problem, hesitant to use loos when friends stay over as they do tell a story! All these builders are probably living in fully insolated homes themselves. grrrr!


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## Zack (27 Jul 2006)

New dwellings must comply with Part E of the current building regulations.
Its a bit of an arcane art, but simply put, a party wall of solid 215mm (wide) blockwork plastered each side with 12.5mm sand cement render will achieve compliance.

I'm afraid I don't know of any specialists off hand who can help you wrt measuring decibel levels.


For stud partitions within the actual dwelling, you should fill them with rockwool as they go up- this gives good sound absorption, a degree of insulation and is non combustible.


Z


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## irishpancake (27 Jul 2006)

Zack said:
			
		

> For stud partitions within the actual dwelling, you should fill them with rockwool as they go up- this gives good sound absorption, a degree of insulation and is non combustible.
> Z



Can this be done afterwards, i.e from the attic in a bungalow.

And without deconstruction of the entire building.

Forgive me if this seems a stupid question, but i have no knowledge of building construction methods


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## Zack (27 Jul 2006)

No, you need to pack the rockwool between the studs and noggins before you fix the plasterboard.
However, if sound transmission is a real problem from bathroom to living room you always fix another sheet of plasterboard on top of the existing one then skim & redecorate etc. Gyproc and other manufacturers produce " Soundbloc" plasterboard (it is distinguished by a blue lining) which should drastically reduce sound transmission.

Z


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## REXO (28 Jul 2006)

Zack said:
			
		

> No, you need to pack the rockwool between the studs and noggins before you fix the plasterboard.
> However, if sound transmission is a real problem from bathroom to living room you always fix another sheet of plasterboard on top of the existing one then skim & redecorate etc. Gyproc and other manufacturers produce " Soundbloc" plasterboard (it is distinguished by a blue lining) which should drastically reduce sound transmission.
> 
> Z


 
From my experience gyproc sound block is not  a satisfactory soundproofing system to be used. . The Irish Agrement board that certifies building products , have rescinded the certificates for these so called "sound resisitant plasterboard"  because of recent problems in thousands of houses and apartments throughout the country.( see homebond circular and 5th edition of house building manual in bookshops) They have no sound resisitant properties.

Tip
The "composite fibrous wool backed plasterboards" are very good for applying to existing walls, as a means of improving soundproofing. 
( brandname rockwall i think)

alternatively
a thoroughly packed layer of insulation between timber studs and boarded off with ordinary 12.5mm plasterboard usually  does the job.  However you must be thorough with the packing around perimeter of wall  i.e along ceiling wall joints, along floor wall joints and wall - wall joints at the sides.



Warning 
Putting more layers against a wall exacerbates a problem . Ive seen it in many houses. The problem stems from  the air cavities gaps behind plasterboard where sound waves swirl around accumulate and ultimately amplify sound.  so strip back the exisiting construction and get that packing in !


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## REXO (28 Jul 2006)

That super duper acoustic and thermal rockwool board referred to above is called rockliner (rockwool firesafe insulation). Thicknesses range from 1.5 inches to 2.5 inches. It consists of half inch plasterboard and the rest is made of rock fibre/ glass wool. Dont know what builders merchants stock it but its out there.


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## sam78 (28 Jul 2006)

Brooks Thomas stock something similar called calibel - not cheap though if I recall it was approx 45-50 euro per sheet!


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## FilthyRich (28 Jul 2006)

When my apartment was being built, I asked if the builder would put rockwool between the two bedrooms as an extra sound barrier. This was done. 

However, I was still able to hear clearly when my lodger was moving around in his room, playing music (not very loudly) and his snoring!

In my limited experience, rockwool certainly isn't the b-all and end-all.


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## REXO (28 Jul 2006)

FilthyRich said:
			
		

> When my apartment was being built, I asked if the builder would put rockwool between the two bedrooms as an extra sound barrier. This was done.
> 
> However, I was still able to hear clearly when my lodger was moving around in his room, playing music (not very loudly) and his snoring!
> 
> In my limited experience, rockwool certainly isn't the b-all and end-all.


 
 OK Nothing will give block out the sound completely, BUT when this board is installed carefully and correctly , it gives good results. The *problem* is trying to get any builder or tradesman in this country to do anything carefully/correctly......... Remember its critical to seal any gaps along where the wall meets the ceiling or where walls intersect each other. One other important point to keep in mind,  is that the sound from one room travels into the floor and between floor joists and up through the floor of adjacent rooms so installing dampening sound mats on timber supported floors is advisable. Hope thats a help Filthyrich... should be no problem for you to do all that


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## irishpancake (31 Jul 2006)

thanx to all who replied with help and suggestions. it looks as if a certain amount of deconstruction is necessary to solve the sound problems.


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## moneypitt (31 Jul 2006)

The quality of builds, the lack of that is, is appalling! And the fact that with a degree and after 10 years of hard work, I can’t even dream about buying a brand new Hyundai or Fiat after paying the mortgage and bills, while twenty-something Joe Bricks drives around in 06 BMWs or Ducati racers says it all about the sad state of affairs here!

Thanks for the info on rockliner, definitely something to look into. In my case (10 year old four bed semi-d, Shannon homes), I find the insulation between floors the worst. That is, using master or en-suite toilets upstairs are clearly audible downstairs (as I said before, really embarrassing stuff). I am yet to put in floor tiles in the bathrooms upstairs – is there anything I can do as a part of that to improve the sound insulation? Also figured out that the en-suite door is not closing that well and there are gaps between the door and doorframe all around – is there anything I can do to seal the gaps?

Thanks again!


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## Guest121 (1 Aug 2006)

Very interesting thread folks.

My situation is killing me at the moment, don't want to give too much away cos I might have to take it to court a smy solicitor is involved.  Any further info would be very much appreciated.

Moved into my unit many months ago.  Can CLEARLY hear people moving around 2 floors above my duplex in their sititng room, when I'm upstairs in my bedroom their sitting room is above my head - the noise is terrible.

Builders claim there's no problem, that it meets all standards, I asked them to come out and check the house, they did.  They didn't do any sound tests as even a cursory listen could tell you that all isn't right.  They agreed there was a deficiency and agreed to fix it many months ago but now they areignoring my attempts to get them to keep their word.

Basically I can't go on living here like this, they previously told me that it was the fault of the floor that the people upstairs have down yet there are many many other noises that are not people walking about that I can hear clearly.

I'm going to get one of these sound tests done I think and then I'll take it from there - are there any regs for something like this, specifically for a duplex which has another one above it???

Thanks.


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## Sue Ellen (1 Aug 2006)

Hi Bobby,

This interesting post might be helpful.


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## Guest121 (1 Aug 2006)

sueellen said:
			
		

> Hi Bobby,
> 
> This interesting post might be helpful.


 

Cheers Sueellen, my problem is that the builders won't do anything about it, I'm getting sound engineers in though to try to sort it out.

When that happens court is my next step I reckon.


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## REXO (3 Aug 2006)

When that happens court is my next step I reckon.[/quote]


Make sure you get a registered letter of complaint into your local Building Control Authority after you get sound test results. Once they're given evidence of non compliance with Regulations, they have a reponsibility to serve the builder with an enforcement notice followed by prosecution if necessary. 

Let the County Council take the heat in  building regulation enforcement and subsequent messing in court. Its their job. They like to keep it a secret that its their job 

Sound tests cost around 600 euro . dont pay any more!

However if the dwelling has been completed for more than 5 years. enforcement does not apply


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## Guest121 (9 Aug 2006)

Cheers Rexo, will do as you say.

I've noticed that there are fairly strong regulations in the "ENVIRONMENTAL PROTECTION AGENCY ACT, 1992 SECTION 108" which states that:

*108.*—(1) Where any noise which is so loud, so continuous, so repeated, of such duration or pitch or occurring at such times as to give reasonable cause for annoyance to a person in any premises in the neighbourhood or to a person lawfully using any public place, a local authority, the Agency or any such person may complain to the District Court and the Court may order the person or body making, causing or responsible for the noise to take the measures necessary to reduce the noise to a specified level or to take specified measures for the prevention or limitation of the noise and the person or body concerned shall comply with such order.
(2) It shall be a good defence, in the case of proceedings under _subsection (1)_ or in a prosecution for a contravention of this section, in the case of noise caused in the course of a trade or business, for the accused to prove that—

( _a_ ) he took all reasonable care to prevent or limit the noise to which the complaint relates by providing, maintaining, using, operating and supervising facilities, or by employing practices or methods of operation, that, having regard to all the circumstances, were suitable for the purposes of such prevention or limitation, or

( _b_ ) the noise is in accordance with—


(i) the terms of a licence under this Act, or



(ii) regulations under _section 106_.

(3) Before a complaint is made to the District Court under _subsection (1)_ the local authority or the person concerned, as the case may be, shall serve a notice in the prescribed form of the intention to make such a complaint, within such time as may be specified in the notice, on the person alleged to have made or have caused or have been responsible for the noise.
(4) This section shall not apply to noise caused by—

( _a_ ) aircraft, or

( _b_ ) such statutory undertaker or local authority, as may be prescribed, in the exercise of powers conferred on it by or under any enactment in such circumstances as may be prescribed.
Hope this is of help to others.


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## Guest121 (26 Feb 2007)

REXO said:


> When that happens court is my next step I reckon.


 

Make sure you get a registered letter of complaint into your local Building Control Authority after you get sound test results. Once they're given evidence of non compliance with Regulations, they have a reponsibility to serve the builder with an enforcement notice followed by prosecution if necessary. 

Let the County Council take the heat in building regulation enforcement and subsequent messing in court. Its their job. They like to keep it a secret that its their job 

Sound tests cost around 600 euro . dont pay any more!

However if the dwelling has been completed for more than 5 years. enforcement does not apply[/quote]


I've been quoted over 1,800euro for the sound test!

Does anyone know anyone that will do it cheaper???


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## Guest121 (5 Apr 2007)

Guys,

I got the sound test done... and it failed, so my unit has not been built to specification.

Any recommendations for next steps???


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## Round Tuit (5 Apr 2007)

Question for BS81, afraid I don't know your next steps:

did your sound test people have to gain access to duplex above to do test? I decided to have a rethink when my contact told me he'd need access above as I didn't really want to have to do that.

Solving an upstairs downstairs sound problem seems more complicated, especially when upstairs doesn't belong to you!


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## Guest121 (5 Apr 2007)

Round Tuit said:


> Question for BS81, afraid I don't know your next steps:
> 
> did your sound test people have to gain access to duplex above to do test? I decided to have a rethink when my contact told me he'd need access above as I didn't really want to have to do that.
> 
> Solving an upstairs downstairs sound problem seems more complicated, especially when upstairs doesn't belong to you!


 
Hey pal,

Yes he had to go upstairs, it's not possible to get it done otherwise. Thankfully my neighbours were fine about it. It was blatantly obvious though that there were problems, a cursory listen to anything happening in their duplex would be enough to know that things were not right.

However, it was also in my neighbours interest to let me in to do the test as the developers were trying to blame him for the noise, saying it was the type of flooring he put down. It wasn't and it's not the problem now as the sound test has proved. In essence the deveopers were trying to get me to go after my neighbour when it was them at fault.

It only takes about an hour to get the test done in your neighbours part and disruption is quite minimal.  I did get the carpet taken up in one of their rooms though but all was agreed beforehand.

If you are in the same complex as me I will be making the results of my sound test available for all in the complex.  Many people have complained about the noise issues but I am the furthest down the road of doing something about it and I'm more than happy giving out the info I have for nothing if it helps people.  

I am based on the Northside of Dublin within the M50 and in very close proximity to it.


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## Round Tuit (10 Apr 2007)

appreciate the offer - not same dev methinks. I'm in (north) west Dublin, just outside M50 & trainline. 

I suppose I'll just have to decide if it annoys me enough to justify the cost. My dev is approx 5 years old & I'm there 3 years. My neighbours are actually not that noisy - it's the sound of water flowing through downpipes from their place through my livingroom walls that gets to me.

At least once you've failed the test your builders will have to cover the cost of the test I presume.


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## Guest121 (26 Jul 2007)

Round Tuit said:


> appreciate the offer - not same dev methinks. I'm in (north) west Dublin, just outside M50 & trainline.
> 
> I suppose I'll just have to decide if it annoys me enough to justify the cost. My dev is approx 5 years old & I'm there 3 years. My neighbours are actually not that noisy - it's the sound of water flowing through downpipes from their place through my livingroom walls that gets to me.
> 
> At least once you've failed the test your builders will have to cover the cost of the test I presume.


 
Yup, they should.  This is still ongoing but seems to now be quite close to being sorted.

Not bad eh?  Only took them 2 years to admit there was a fault and to fix it.


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## BIGJimBO (30 Jul 2007)

the Building regs should be improved to make builders put in proper insulation first day when it would be relatively cheap. To put in insulation after construction costs a few grand a room.


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## ClubMan (30 Jul 2007)

Is there nothing covering this already?


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## AKA (9 Aug 2007)

bobbysands81 said:


> Yup, they should. This is still ongoing but seems to now be quite close to being sorted.
> 
> Not bad eh? Only took them 2 years to admit there was a fault and to fix it.


 
That's great that you go it fixed. I logged this as a seperate thread not thinking it would be a common problem. 

I'm having a problem too - I'm unsure to contact the builders and get them to do a sound test as it has been a year and a half since I moved in - or have my own done and contact building control i.e. local authority?

I've heard from a diff builder that there's very little that can be done when after construction. I've even heard of someone having the builder come and do remedial work. The person moved out of the house for the duration of the work and when they came back it wasn't much better. That's why I've been reluctant. But as I listen to the family next door have dinner and my neighbour listening to techno music I think I'm going to have to do something.


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## Guest121 (30 Aug 2007)

AKA said:


> That's great that you go it fixed. I logged this as a seperate thread not thinking it would be a common problem.
> 
> I'm having a problem too - I'm unsure to contact the builders and get them to do a sound test as it has been a year and a half since I moved in - or have my own done and contact building control i.e. local authority?
> 
> I've heard from a diff builder that there's very little that can be done when after construction. I've even heard of someone having the builder come and do remedial work. The person moved out of the house for the duration of the work and when they came back it wasn't much better. That's why I've been reluctant. But as I listen to the family next door have dinner and my neighbour listening to techno music I think I'm going to have to do something.


 
Only seeing your post now pal, apologies.

Have you complained to the builders at all?  Do you know if other people have?  Are the builders completely off-site?  What area do you live in?  The reason I ask that is that each Local Authority has Building Control Officers in their functional area.  If you complain to them about what's happening then they might direct the builders to carry out a sound test on your behalf.  I would be wary about this though.  My builders got a sound test done which showed up as hitting all minimum standards... but they wouldn't give me a copy of it even though they had agreed to previously.  When I kept pushing them on it they completely changed their minds and said that it had failed to comply with Minimum Standards.  

I got my own test done, it failed, and that was the catalyst to getting this whole thing sorted.  However, this is expensive.  Do you live in a development that has a Management Co?  Have they received any complaints?  As they might still be directed by the Developers they mightn't be the most trustworthy so take any negative answer with a pinch of salt.  If there is a Resident's Committee then ask them have people been complaining about noise.  If the AGM of your Management Co is coming up then that would be an ideal time to raise this issue too.

As for there being very little the builders can do, if they have built your unit to a standard that does not comply with minimum regs then quite simply you can sue them.  If you can hear your neighbours having dinner then I would immediately guess that there is something wrong and I would get a sound test carried out.  It'll cost you but if you're right then it's well worth it.  If the test fails then really the builders should sit up and take note and sort it immediately once you let them know that you are more than willing to go down the legal route.


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## AKA (19 Nov 2007)

*Sound test - what to look out for / ref to the latest regulations/certified engineer*

Getting a sound test carried out this week.  Had a look at Building Regs 1997 Part E which doesn't contain any db levels etc.  Is there any newer legislation?  

What should I be looking out for to ensure the test is being carried out correctly, requesting - e.g. a report is a suggestion on another thread.

When you go through the local authority's Enforcement section - the builder is asked to arrange a sound test - he then arranges the sound engineer - sounds a bit 

Does anyone know if there is any way of knowing if the person sent out to to the test is certified?

Thanks.


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## macshean (31 May 2010)

*sound proofing*

Hi all,
Yes I can certainly understand all your frustration regarding the very poor sound proofing in so called modern dwellings.
I moved into an apartment in Newbridge in September 2008 and for the first 12 months it was nice and peaceful but as soon as the apartments either side of me were rented ( could not sell)  out by the builder BARRICK HOMES
 " BUILT FOR BETTER LIVING" what a joke!!! These are very poor quality buildings thrown up in a hurry and the sound proofing is disgraceful, these guys walked away from my apartment complex without finishing off the wiring for the fire equipment in the common areas and to date will not finish it. Anyway a side issue.

For the last six months now the guy next to me who's main bedroom wall backs to mine snores very loudly, bangs his way around late into the night which is a big problem, I'm going to do time for this lad soon if I can't sort out this noisy issue, hope all your suggestions work!!!


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## serasmith (16 Jun 2010)

Try QuietRock. I have a friend who used it and is very happy. It was reasonably priced and also cuts out most of the noise. Not trying to advertise here, as I know the rules of the forum. Just recommending from my buddy's experience.


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## deeds372 (11 Jul 2010)

i haves same issues in mid terrace house in galway-so i have it both sides-one side is fine the other side dont talk to each other they shout and ow they have a goat!(dont get me started on that,still waiting for mgmt to sort that out)The house is 8 years old i bought it two years ago-are there grants you can get for sound insulation?


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