# Foreign creditor harrassment in Ireland



## dotdarling (18 Aug 2011)

I'm having many sleepless nights regarding debt we owe in the Netherlands. We have 2 small debts, 1 medium and 2 large debts. Due to my husband losing his job during the financial crisis, we could not pay much of our debt. My husband has since found work, and we have made arrangements with the 2 smaller debts (€6,000 in total) and the medium (€13,000 - loss on selling our house in the Netherlands) to pay it back and have the interest stopped. The 2 large creditors (€15,000 & €50,000) will not work with us. They want us to pay amounts we simply cannot afford.  They have since called in a collection agency in Holland to which we sent proof of income and expenses and salary slips to prove our financial situation. We offered €400 per month if they would stop the interest and then pay more per month once the other debts were cleared, but they declined. The agency has called my husband at his place of work to demand payment of €200 per week. When I sent an email saying that this was intimidation, they replied that he should feel intimidated because they were seeking financial recourse. The latest is that they are going to submit the case to the courts (in Ireland? in the Netherlands?). I don't know what more we can do.

Background info: We  have been living in Ireland for the last 4 years but lived in the Netherlands before that. When living there, we (stupidly) took out 2 different loans with Interbank. At the time my husband did most of the talking (in Dutch) with the financial advisor who came to our house and offered these loans. They loans are with interest only payments - whereby you are supposed to put an additional amount in investments that 'pay off' the principle of the loans (according to the advisor that would be in about 15 years). I would never had agreed to such a loan agreement if I had understood at the time that it was basically paying interest for the rest of your life. I should have asked for clarification on this point, but didn't - and that is my own fault. Anyway, we moved to Ireland in the first place because my husband received a good job offer which we thought would allow us to pay back the debt faster and offer a cleaner, safer place to raise our little girl. We were making payments until the job loss. He is a chef and chefs in Holland make much less than in Ireland (not to mention the high taxes in Holland). I work freelance from home and have irregular income. We rent a furnished house, live pay check to pay check and just get by. 

We don't deny that we owe the debt. We just want to resolve it in a realistic and reasonable way. If they would just stop the interest (16% on the €15,000 and 8% on the €50,000) that keeps accruing and, along with the collection fees, has brought the total amount up to near €100,000, we could make payments that actually resolve the debt instead of throwing €400 per month into a black hole of interest that never pays back the principle. I'm so stressed by this and the idea of going to court. They could send the sherrif, but we have nothing to take.


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## oldnick (18 Aug 2011)

If you have nothing to lose why are you so worried ? Debt collectors bully people -thats their job and if they're phoning from NL they won't care about irish law. But what about Dutch law ? .

If,amazingly, you haven't a Dutch lawyer then give this law firm a ring. they're legal experts in debt problems
Goedkoop & Partners
TEL 31 172 419844

Maybe the Dutch Commercial Dept at the Embassy here knows an irish lawyer who knows about Dutch law/consumer rights etc

it would seem best to first get rid of that 15k loan - 16% is crazy.


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## hastalavista (18 Aug 2011)

Sorry to read this tale of woe.

My guess is that the court work will first be done in Holland. I don't know what the procedure is over there, whether you need representation there or whether you can submit a sworn statement from here.

I know its very stressful but the key lines are in your post. 

"I don't know what more we can do"
"we have nothing to take"

At worst they can get a judgment against you but as we say here in Ireland, no point in flogging a dead horse  or you cant get blood out of a stone.

In many respects the fact that you have no assets for the sheriff is a bonus, in passing how can you prove the house is rented furnished, wouldn't do to have at all seized any not even yours. Have you a list of contents in the lease?


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## horusd (18 Aug 2011)

Presumably there are regulations governing debt collection in Holland, and an equivalant of citizens advice or free legal aid. Can you research this and make a call? It would be in your interest to know exactly what they can and cannot do. 

Although the legal framework in Holland may be different, the EU Commission (consumer Centre) here  may be able to direct you to the services and support you need in Holland. See here.

It sounds like a really stressful situation, and you are clearly not trying to walk away from the problem, I really wish you well with sorting it out.


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## dotdarling (19 Aug 2011)

Thanks for everyone's replies so far.
Oldnick: Apparently, because we are domiciled in Ireland, they first have to get approval from the Dutch courts to send on the collection to Ireland and pursue it in the Irish courts. We've tried reasoning with them. We could concentrate on paying off the 16% loan first, but they would keep accruing interest on the €50,000 loan (at 8%). And no, they would not reduce or stop the interest - we've asked repeatedly. 

Hastalavista: I'm originally from the States, so the flogging a dead horse comment made me smile - we use it there too. The contents of our furnished apartment are not listed in our lease (we don't have a lease), but we live in a small rural town in SW Kerry - everyone knows everyone. Our landlord could vouch for the contents.

Horusd: We've tried contacting the appropriate agencies in the Netherlands. They all say that they cannot help us because we don't live in the Netherlands. We must first move back and then try to arrange something. Of course, the cost of moving, trying to rent a house with the bad credit and without first having jobs is not possible. We are not running from the situation - but sometimes at 3:00 am when I can't sleep due to the stress of this, I sometimes think about brushing up my Spanish and moving to Argentina


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## doughb (20 Aug 2011)

dotdarling said:


> I sometimes think about brushing up my Spanish and moving to Argentina



Which is something ye could think of. Not actually going to Argentina ( spent 6 months there ) but emigrating to New Zealand for example. Since both of ye are not Irish and it doesn't appear ye want to move back to NL ( spent time there too) it could be your answer. Start afresh in a new country where there is alot of job opportunities. And, didnt the dutch half discover this country first


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## dotdarling (20 Aug 2011)

doughb: The Dutch seemed to colonize quite a few countries - they got around. I worry that by just moving to another country, I will replace the stress of how to pay the debt and dealing with bullying collection agents with the guilt of just leaving the debt behind. We think about staying and facing the music (court) when the time comes and hopefully a judge will help the creditor see reason and allow us to make payments that we can afford and that pay off the debt. On the other hand, in our weaker moments, we think "stuff it, we'll move to another country - start fresh and be responsible.

We have other debts that have arrangements made and on which we make payments. It's just these 2 large ones that will absolutely not work with us so that we can make payments that pay off the debt. We've told them what we can afford to pay each month if they stop the interest. They won't stop the interest and want us to make those payments anyway - which is throwing money into a black hole as it wouldn't even cover the monthly interest charged. They say that we are in no position to dictate terms to them. I can only hope that if we stay in Ireland and it get to the courts, that a judge will see that we've tried to arrange reasonable payments and then force the creditors to work with us.


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## horusd (20 Aug 2011)

I would still check with the eu consumer centre here. I would imagine they could offer some help, or at least point you in the right direction. You might also check out free legal aid, who may offer some advice. See www.flac.ie/


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## dotdarling (21 Aug 2011)

thx horusd. I'll check out both suggestions.


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