# Non resident Irish Nationals seeking mortgage for Irish property from bank operating in Ireland



## Horatio (12 Apr 2017)

We are an Irish couple living overseas since 2003. 
We come home for 5-6 weeks /year & have always rented holiday homes.
We have decided to buy our first home in Ireland for our own exclusive use during these visits.

As I loosely understand it I cannot secure a mortgage in Ireland because I do not earn in euro - can anyone verify if this is truly the case?

As a mitigating factor we are quite liquid & could buy our target property outright but would rather put the cash to work.

advice or experiences are much appreciated.
H.


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## Chantilly (12 Apr 2017)

As not irish residents, you will not be able to secure a mortgage, so the cash buy route is your only option.


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## Horatio (12 Apr 2017)

...furiously seeks back door solution...

Thanks Chantilly.
do you know the rationale behind the rule? Do you know where the rule is recorded? I'm not challenging you just trying to understand where this originates from & why. Cheers.


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## Chantilly (12 Apr 2017)

Afraid I do not have any formal rule or link to share with you, maybe an AAM member in the banking sector can be more specific, guessing they want to check your credentials and solvability in the country. But then again, if you have the cash why going the credit route and pay interest when savings account are almost null. Good luck with your search.


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## Jim2007 (12 Apr 2017)

Horatio said:


> ...furiously seeks back door solution...
> 
> Thanks Chantilly.
> do you know the rationale behind the rule? Do you know where the rule is recorded? I'm not challenging you just trying to understand where this originates from & why. Cheers.



No not believe all you hear!  All the EU directive is intended to reduce the FX risk for borrowers, it requires that in certain situations where the borrower is paid in a currency other than the currency of the loan, the bank must basically carry the risk when the FX rate varies by greater than 20%.  And many banks have simple decided not to offer products to such borrowers.

I would suggest that you at least try and see, perhaps one of the lenders will be willing to take a chance on you, you could also check if they might consider an commercial loan or failing all that check with your current bank would consider doing a back to back loan with an Irish bank.  I've done this it the past.


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## Horatio (13 Apr 2017)

Jim2007 said:


> No not believe all you hear!  All the EU directive is intended to reduce the FX risk for borrowers, it requires that in certain situations where the borrower is paid in a currency other than the currency of the loan, the bank must basically carry the risk when the FX rate varies by greater than 20%.  And many banks have simple decided not to offer products to such borrowers.
> 
> I would suggest that you at least try and see, perhaps one of the lenders will be willing to take a chance on you, you could also check if they might consider an commercial loan or failing all that check with your current bank would consider doing a back to back loan with an Irish bank.  I've done this it the past.



So when speaking to a mortgage broker yesterday he cited the Bank's reasons as being the difficulty in pursuing borrowers who default rather than the Eu Directive. When I spoke to KBsC on the phone they cited the EU directive. I reckon the former is the real reason but the EU directive is being cited out of an "it's not us it's them making us do it" facade.

anyway, I'm gonna go around a few of the banks and see how it plays out...

H.


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## newirishman (13 Apr 2017)

Horatio said:


> As a mitigating factor we are quite liquid & could buy our target property outright but would rather put the cash to work.
> 
> advice or experiences are much appreciated.
> H.



You are probably not going to get a mortgage in this scenario with an interest rate that is any good (if you get a mortgage at all)  - I'd expect you'd be quoted at least 4%+ for such a non-PPR mortgage, or most likely in excess of 5%.
You would be very hard pressed to get a return from "putting the cash to work" that would not still leave you out of pocket. The argument could be made that "putting the cash to work" is actually buying the property outright, and then make some return by e.g. renting it out as a holiday home when you don't need it, plus of course any appreciation in price you might get over the years.


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## frankde (13 Apr 2017)

I am a non resident Irish Naional, and got a mortgage with an Irish Bank before the new EU rule

Even then it was very difficult, the bank had to use an extra solicitor on their side which cost me extra money
I also had to use a mortgage broker; this was the banks preference
I presently pay about 5% on  my mortgage

Next time I will just buy in cash...


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## Horatio (27 May 2019)

So I'm still in the same situation as in 2017 when I started this thread. I now understand that AIB & BoI will both offer mortgages to me as a non resident earning non euro currency. This mortgages are at the same interest rates as offered to resident Euro earning customers but they want an LTV of 65% at least, i.e. I have to stump up at least 35% of my own funds. just updating with new developments as it may be new news to some other folks.


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## Bronte (29 May 2019)

Good to know Horatio. I'm a non resident who had no problem borrowing from Irish banks around 2005 and before that too. I did not need anything special such as a broker or extra solicitor.  

When the bubble bust everything got more difficult.


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## RedOnion (29 May 2019)

Bronte said:


> When the bubble bust everything got more difficult


In a rare case, the banks aren't entirely to blame for this one.
EU legislation brings in extra burdens for the banks where a customer is borrowing in a currency other than their earnings. The banks have to do additional stress testing, and offer hedging options to the borrower. For most it's not worth the extra hassle, and they're not efficient offering treasury derivatives for retail volumes (plus that brings more regulations!)


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## Horatio (4 Jun 2019)

I just got off the phone with BoI Mortgage desk & the nice lady stated that they don't offer mortgages to non residents. There was quite a bit of fumbling to get to that conclusion. I had previously understood that they do in fact do it but only up to 65%. I suspect the lady I spoke to is not informed on the policy or product, she was a little flustered on the call.

I'm not going to give up on securing with BoI but I'm at a bit of a loss as to how to get someone on the phone that is aufait with mortgage lending to a non resident earning non euro currency. I reckon it's a curve ball case for normal mortgage desk staff.


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## NoRegretsCoyote (4 Jun 2019)

Horatio said:


> I'm not going to give up on securing with BoI but I'm at a bit of a loss as to how to get someone on the phone that is aufait with mortgage lending to a non resident earning non euro currency. I reckon it's a curve ball case for normal mortgage desk staff.



My experience with BOIM staff over the phone is that they are wrong at least half of the time.


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## RedOnion (4 Jun 2019)

Horatio said:


> I just got off the phone with BoI Mortgage desk & the nice lady stated that they don't offer mortgages to non residents


It looks like they pulled the product last year.








						Bank of Ireland pulls plug on non-resident mortgage market
					

Bank will stop offering mortgages to Irish living overseas who want to buy back home




					www.irishtimes.com


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## Horatio (4 Jun 2019)

NoRegretsCoyote said:


> My experience with BOIM staff over the phone is that they are wrong at least half of the time.



How hard can it be to train your staff on your product offerings?


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## Foxy007 (4 Jun 2019)

Very apparently.... its not cause you earn in non Euro either.


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## Horatio (4 Jun 2019)

RedOnion said:


> It looks like they pulled the product last year.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Hmm, so I'm down to AIB by the looks of it. Thanks RedOnion.


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## RedOnion (4 Jun 2019)

@Horatio 
Just re-read your opening post from 2 years ago. Just to confirm, this is a house for your own private use rather than a BTL?


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## Horatio (4 Jun 2019)

Correct


Foxy007 said:


> Very apparently.... its not cause you earn in non Euro either.


correct, the reason cited on the call was because I'm non resident.


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## Horatio (4 Jun 2019)

RedOnion said:


> @Horatio
> Just re-read your opening post from 2 years ago. Just to confirm, this is a house for your own private use rather than a BTL?



Yes, correct. We had planned to let it in between visits but we abandoned that as too much overhead. It will be our PPR as we now plan to return permanently.


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## Andrew365 (4 Jun 2019)

Bronte said:


> Good to know Horatio. I'm a non resident who had no problem borrowing from Irish banks around 2005 and before that too. I did not need anything special such as a broker or extra solicitor.
> 
> When the bubble bust everything got more difficult.



This probably worked out as a good piece of diversity in their lending for the bank.


I tried to do this previously when I lived abroad and ended up just having to relocate back home! haha


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## Andrew365 (7 Jun 2019)

Horatio,

Check with Haven (subsidiary of AIB), I know somebody and their situation isn't exactly the same as yours but it wasn't the standard, they seemed a little bit more flexible.


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## Horatio (7 Jun 2019)

Andrew365 said:


> Horatio,
> 
> Check with Haven (subsidiary of AIB), I know somebody and their situation isn't exactly the same as yours but it wasn't the standard, they seemed a little bit more flexible.



Thanks Andrew, I’ll do that.


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## Horatio (15 Aug 2019)

Just been declined by PTSB on the basis that I'm not paid in Euro. They did not cite non residence as a reason for declining.


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## Horatio (22 Aug 2019)

AIB seem to be engaging...

I can get a regular mortgage apparently but only if I move into it immediately upon purchase. If it lies vacant for a couple of months thay can only offer a buy to let mortgage at higher interest rate. Let's see, it's early days...


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## flmayo (22 Aug 2019)

I managed to get a mortgage with Haven (AIB subsidery) via a broker in April of this year. I'm still living and working in the U.S, my family moved back to Ireland permanently last year.  You'll need to have patience, it's head wreaking at times.


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## Tom721 (5 Feb 2020)

Hi Horatio, I am in the same boat and currently (via a broker) trying to get a mortgage for a property in Ireland (more like a holiday home) for the time being. As far as I am aware, AIB are the only possible provider for ex pat mortgages and will offer a mortgage 65% LTV for:
A holiday home so not returning home or for a family home - intention to return to Ireland soon. BTL will not be covered. Just wondering how you are progressing with it? Thanks


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