# Geothermal ESB costs for a year



## poppy1

We are builiding a 2000sq foot house and thinking of getting underfloor heating throughout. what is the esb cost per year? for the underfloor and hot water? Is there anyone who had it for over a year?  all the threads have read are from people building not from people who have lived with the geothermal for a while, thanks


----------



## Guest107

Fag packet jobbie for that house about €2000-2200 a year . A friend who has geo for 3 years (not as good as the recent stuff) stated that his 3000 sq ft  house with 2 adults and one child was €3000 a year total bill including lighting .

Good insulation assumed, drylining on outside walls , porches and other sun/draught traps.

One 1100 tank of OiL is €800 nowadays, in  a 2000 sq ft house you will use 2 tanks a year minimum , probably 2.5,  and your ESB (assume dryer used in winter) will  be €1200 a year . Thats with everyone out working 5 days a week too.


----------



## Judy

hi, I know someone with the Geothermal underfloor system and in the first year in their house their ESB bill was€1500 for the year and that included all electrics. Iin the second year this is presumed to come down about €300 havent actually asked what it was in the second year. Mind you they do turn it off around May and back on in Sept/Oct but the house is not cold guess they have good insulation!


----------



## bskinti

Here's one for you to consider: a Friend of mine has underfloor heating which was put in a few years ago, it cost him a fortune because there was very few doing it then but he claims its the sorriest thing he ever did as its not suitable to Irish climate He claims it takes over 2 days for rooms to reach the temperature  he wants and takes twice as long to get the temp down, this is grand in the winter when you need heat all the time but like this week with a few cold nights he cant give the boiler a blast to throw in a bit of heat as tomorrow he would die with the heat when rooms are only starting to get warm so he has electric rads on stand by for the odd chilly night, Just something for you to consider! "O I wont go into my beliefs on timber frame houses in Ireland"


----------



## DQuinn

HiPoppy, 

I think I have exactly what you are looking for. 

We have Geothermal in since last December. When researching it I could find no detailed cost of running only estimates. So I got my electrician to put a meter on it so I could calculate the daily running costs to prove to myself I had made a good decision, and so I could pass these on to other people considering putting it in (and prove many doubters wrong). I have the daily breakdown if you would be interested in seeing them.

In short here are the average daily running costs per month since I started recording the meter.

February€4.53
March€4.02
April€4.10
May€2.67
June€1.23
July€1.01
August€1.38

Total Daily Average€2.71

This does not include nightsaver, which roughly means taking off a 1/4 of the price, so at the moment it's costing 2.03 / day = €741 a year, for constant heat and hot water in a 3500 sq foot house. However I expect October, November, December and January costs to be high say €4-5/day still only = €850/year.

Thats for 24/7 heat and hotwater. People have argued that a fill or 2 of oil sees them through a year, but not without occasional use of the imersion heater, and certainly not without occassionally finding the house freezing when they get up in the middle of the night, or get home late etc etc.


----------



## poppy1

Hi DQuinn
That was exactly what i was looking for, thanks
What about what bskinti is saying about taking ages to heat up?  Do you have it on during the summer months?  Can i also ask how much it cost you to install?


----------



## DQuinn

poppy1 said:


> Hi DQuinn
> That was exactly what i was looking for, thanks
> What about what bskinti is saying about taking ages to heat up? Do you have it on during the summer months? Can i also ask how much it cost you to install?


 
Haven't really noticed that problem much. Maybe occassionally we have commented that the house feels a little cold, but nothing to make you think of turning up the heat. We have an outdoor sensor, that accurately tells the outside temp, and adjusts the running temp accordingly. So if there is a sudden drop in temp, the geothermal pump ups the heating temp to allow for this. If the stats are set in each room, that room should stay at that temp.

The install cost was almost €26000, that was for a seperate High Pressure 200/300 l Cylinder, and 2 towel rads. We don't adjust it at all, if it's very warm out, it doesn't need to come on to heat the rooms, only to heat the water. When we went away for two weeks on holiday we turned it down slightly, with the thought that if we turned it off, it would cost alot more to reheat the house and the tank of hot water after two weeks, than to keep it ticking over when we were away. It cost €9 for the two weeks to keep it running.

Hope this is of help.


----------



## extopia

If, like DQuinn above, you keep your system on all the time you will avoid the long heat up / cool down period. This can be practical in a continuously inhabited house, but not obviously in a holiday home. Make sure you have a thermostat in each room, correctly located, and you shouldn't have many problems with long heat up times.


----------



## Horatio

Dquinn,
from Whom/where did you get your system, if you don't mind sharing
thx


----------



## F.D

DQuinn,
How much area did you need for your collector i've been hearing a lot of different suggestions
Did you have any problems in deciding where to put the collector as it  restricts any future building, patios, changes in the garden sowing trees etc


----------



## paddyd

F.D said:


> DQuinn,
> How much area did you need for your collector i've been hearing a lot of different suggestions
> Did you have any problems in deciding where to put the collector as it restricts any future building, patios, changes in the garden sowing trees etc


 
I'm very interested on this too. Our site is hilly (not sure if that makes a difference), but i've heard you need to dig up about twice the footprint of your house. 
What happens if the tree's you plant in your garden get in around the yards of piping underground? (seriously)

The option i'm interesting in is the alternative one whereby you drill down 2 parallel holes about 60 meters I think. Its more expensive, but does it give the same results?


----------



## qwerty?

Sorry for delay, change in username.



Horatio said:


> Dquinn,
> from Whom/where did you get your system, if you don't mind sharing
> thx


 
www.eil.ie in sligo



F.D said:


> DQuinn,
> How much area did you need for your collector i've been hearing a lot of different suggestions
> Did you have any problems in deciding where to put the collector as it restricts any future building, patios, changes in the garden sowing trees etc


 
we have 600m of collector, so an area of about 75m x 8m of our garden was dug up I think, keeping the pipes about 1m apart.



paddyd said:


> I'm very interested on this too. Our site is hilly (not sure if that makes a difference), but i've heard you need to dig up about twice the footprint of your house.
> What happens if the tree's you plant in your garden get in around the yards of piping underground? (seriously)
> 
> The option i'm interesting in is the alternative one whereby you drill down 2 parallel holes about 60 meters I think. Its more expensive, but does it give the same results?


 
We have a 1.7 acre site, so we placed the geothermal area where we knew we would want lawn. Shrubs plated above it should not be a problem, trees obviously would with roots, absorbing moisture from the soil etc.
Don't think a hilly site should be a major problem, especially if the rise is from your house, if it's away I'd imagine it will increase the work on your ground loop pump, check with an installer, becasue I'm no expert on that.

Hope this helps.

Q?


----------



## inchbyinch

Dquinn\qwerty

fair play for going to such lengths to analyse the cost of your heating system. I was wondering what insulation you used on your house as the heating system seems to be very efficient!! also I have heard that using underfloor heating restricts the type of floor finish you use?? I would like to use tiles in my kitchen hallway and dining room but the rest I would prefer to finish in carpet, have you or anybody else had problems with this??

ta


----------



## ipxl

InchByInch:

PMing you because I didn't want to derail your query sent to
DQuinn.

I think carpet is a waste of time with UFH based on all the info
I've been given.
It's got to be tiles/laminate/timber.

With timber its best to use engineered boards and not fully solid
and usually not much wider than 120mm.
I've also been advised that the best response is to use direct
contact glue which adds cost to the floor laying but it you will
get the best thermal efficiency.

I know Qwerty/D Quinn personally and he advised me on the
UFH/ground source heat pump. I'm going with a different supplier
but doing similar things to him.
He went with a floated floor and is happy with that. The specialists
seem to advice against the floated floor on account of air gaps
which will impede the heat transfer. I'm still trying to make a decision
as to whether to float the engineered boards or to have them
glued down. 

but once again.. carpets... I'd be surprised if anyone will tell you
anything other than the fact that UFH & carpets is a non starter.

--Ian


----------



## ipxl

Sorry Qwerty/DQ , InchByInch has a query about carpets & UFH.
I meant to PM him but sent it on the discussion thread anyway.

-ipxl


----------



## qwerty?

inchbyinch said:


> Dquinn\qwerty
> 
> fair play for going to such lengths to analyse the cost of your heating system. I was wondering what insulation you used on your house as the heating system seems to be very efficient!! also I have heard that using underfloor heating restricts the type of floor finish you use?? I would like to use tiles in my kitchen hallway and dining room but the rest I would prefer to finish in carpet, have you or anybody else had problems with this??
> 
> ta


We used 100mm xtratherm on the ground floor, 25mm on firstfloor, 105mm Aeroboard platinum in the cavitys, 125mm (100mm between joists and 25mm beneath) on the sloping ceilings and 300mm fibreglass in the attic space.

On the flooring side we used engineered oak and natural stone tiles mostly, except the landing and the stairs which are about to be carpeted. We have had scraps of carpet thrown down on the landing for the last 9 months to try and keep the dust down until we got some stainless steel work done in the landing/stairs (which is nearly done - at last ), and haven't noticed any major problem with heat in the landing area ( but it's an open plan area downstairs, so the heat rises through the stairwell anyway).... that said I would be very hesitant to put carpet down in an enclosed room, it has to have some dampening/insulating down effect on the heat, but the carpet salesmen don't think so... well they would say that wouldn't they 



ipxl said:


> InchByInch:
> 
> He went with a floated floor and is happy with that. The specialists
> seem to advice against the floated floor on account of air gaps
> which will impede the heat transfer. I'm still trying to make a decision
> as to whether to float the engineered boards or to have them
> glued down.
> 
> --Ian


 
It's true most specialists advice on the glueing method, but both my UFH installer and the company I bought my flooring off were convinced that the floating method works - and it seems to be for us.

Hi Ian, glad you made a decision, I can remember how difficult it was for us to take the plunge.


----------



## Tones

is carpet a no go then for UFH. we were thinking of carpeting our own bedroom and sitting room and leaving the rest as wooden or tile floors? must places seem to say that carpets should be ok but then again they are sales men at then end of the day


----------



## Dougal

I am currently in planning stage of building and wondering can anyone help me with what companies are best to install Geothermal heating and what is the best style eg underground, water, closed loop, open loop. Also what area is needed to heat a 2500sq ft house.  What sort of guarantees do you get with it. I have been talking to a company called Eurotech, which are based in Co Monaghan at the sustainable energy show a week or so back and thay seem good but has anyone had any dealing with them.


----------



## Tones

we are using Ashgrove Engineering and found them to be very good and very competitively priced. we starting our house next week and they have been great the last few months for advice and guidance

http://www.ashgrove.ie/


----------



## Dougal

Thanks tones, but thay a bit far away, I based in ulster/lenister area, any companies round there would be preferable.


----------



## extopia

I used an Omagh-based subsidiary of a UK company (although I believe they've since moved closer to Belfast). I won't name them (well I did originally but have edited this post) but the name suggests cosiness underfoot. 

Have to say I could not recommend the company. Although I'm happy with the system, there were some pretty long delays, due to mistakes made, installers forgetting to bring  vital components; and poor communication with other tradespeople. Hopefully they've gotten their act together by now.


----------



## thefisherman

am puttiing in geothermal heat too,looking around at prices for heat pumps i found i could buy the exact same heat pump in poland and save a few thousand euro and iwas wondering did anyone go down that road???it would be a swedish brand bought off the polish distributor,i will get the grant as it does not matter where u buy in europe according to the department. any feedback on that idea???


----------



## Viking House

thefisherman said:


> am puttiing in geothermal heat too,looking around at prices for heat pumps i found i could buy the exact same heat pump in poland and save a few thousand euro and iwas wondering did anyone go down that road???it would be a swedish brand bought off the polish distributor,i will get the grant as it does not matter where u buy in europe according to the department. any feedback on that idea???


 
Hi Fisherman

We bring in a lot of building material from Poland and the quality is very good, we fitted a Nibe heatpump which the client had purchased and we later found the same heatpump for 60% of the price in Poland.


----------



## thefisherman

the pump i got a price for was themia. the quote i got for nibe pumps in poland were much the same as for ireland,and i got a polish guy here to do the asking


----------



## tculloo

Hi DQuin

I've just completed an estimated analysis on how much it would cost to convert over to gorthermal. I'm currently using LPG for all my heating which is killing me. The figures I came up based on my current gass usage with was around €40/month using night rate electricity. But what I would like to know is how many units of electricity you are consuming/day for the geothermal system

thanks
TC


----------



## qwerty?

Hi TC.

Hope this is of help

January858
February899
March942
April846
May597
June267
July225
August318
September331

which a total of 4425 units or €700 of electricity, without taking nightsaver into account. 

Q? aka Dquinn


----------



## extopia

The comparison is pointless without taking into account the heat output required to warm your house. It's easy enough to compute the number of units you're going to use based on the electrical rating of the heat pump and associated electrical equipment (circulation pumps e.g.) but the amount of time the system is running depends largely on air temperature and the insualtion properties of your house. If you know how many BTU's you're using at the moment to heat your house, you can do the caclculation easily enough if you know the output of the system you plan to install.


----------



## tups7

I have a geothermal system that I purchased from Ashgrove. They have all the buzz words, but when you scratch the surface, they are just a bunch of kids, who source the kit, then farm out the installation to contacted plumbers.  Our installation was pretty poor, and ended up calling them back a number of times.


----------



## keptar

qwerty
Just found your information on running costs within this post.  Do you have the actual running costs available for Sept through Dec?   

We have just moved into new house runnning U/floor space heating off an A/W hp. Have the controls programmed to come on at 5 - 10:30 in morning and 2 - 4.30 in afternoon.  This is adequately heating house and hot water for us.  With a 3.95 - 4KW input, I'm hoping we'll not see esb bills much higher than 4euro a day for heat.   Have just started recording the hp operating times, so will start to get a better feel for actual costs over the next few weeks.


----------



## qwerty?

Yep, just working on them the other day. These are the average daily costs.

September 1.53
October 2.42
November 4.06
December 4.35

Again these exclude Nightsaver rates.

Total yearly cost came in a €1100 excluding nightsaver rates. So approx €900 with nightsaver.  (a little higher than I thought, but still not bad for 24/7 heat and HW for 3500 sq foot. I'd love to know how much oil or pellets would have cost for the same level of heat and HW for comparism.)


----------



## lorna

this would be a great time to hear how anyone who is currently using solar panels, wood pellet burners, geothermal heating etc (ie the newish systems) feel about their cost effectiveness as well as the quality and amount of heat produced. we have looked at all the above and read numerous threads on this site and i am afraid we are only convinced about using the solar panels to provide hot water through the summer months when we need no heating. for heating we are going with a common oil burner and a dual fuel stove with a back boiler for winter which will heat main family room in the winter evenings and rads around the house. we will have access to loads of free timber from my dad's farm and there is a reasonable supply of turf to be bought at a reasonable price. going to go the full hogg with insulation and good windows.   the house is a 2,800 square foot with 6 bedrooms (ie four beds on first floor and two in the loft with shared bathroom).  also going to install a couple of electric showers for convenience probably one of the ensuites and one in the utility room on ground floor!  i want to be able to have a shower anytime i feel like it.  we don't really know whether we are right or wrong but i just dont feel entirely convinced about underfloor heating, geothermal, wind turbines, wood pellet burners etc. and the people who sell these systems are of similar mentality to estate agents ! sorry if this offends anyone.


----------



## delinkerry

Lorna,
I am in very similar situation to you just building and can't decide on systems.  I am thinking about Solar panels for water and 2 wood burners and then oil as back.  Like you I am very unconvinced on geothermal (especially the cost) and supplies/storage etc of pellets.  WOuld be interested in anyone who may have experience of integrating solar/small burners and oil into one system??


----------



## lorna

yes to be honest i am bogged down with information but its all very general and most of it comes from sales type people who naturally have nothing bad to say about their products.  i feel like we have done the full circle and ended up back at the beginning with what we now are planning to do.  the same scenario for the actual build of the house, timberframe, traditional block or this polysterene blocks with concrete fill system.  And again we are back at square and going with traditional block build and going heavy duty on the insulation and putting in good low maintenance windows.  happy days ahead !


----------



## NIGO15

Why Are You Not Sure About Underfloor Heating? I Am Starting A New Build Soon And Was Thinking Of Installing Underfloor, Just Interested To Hear Your Reasons!!


----------



## lorna

well i live in london and am very fond of my combi boiler running on piped gas.  instant hot water as much as you like any time of the day or night.  the house heats up in about 15 minutes.  I feel the weather is very changeable these days.  some very mild days and then come evening it can turn right cold quite suddenly.  I think it takes too long for underfloor heating to regulate itself for my liking.  There seems to be some lack of control with having the right temperature on different types of days.  in my dad's house in ireland, he has oil heating, its a big house with plenty of draughts but when you fire up that boiler, the effect is quite dramatic within a half hour.   underfloor heating just doesn't seem to heat up quick enough and cool down quick enough.  i'm going to ireland next month and going to call on a few people who have underfloor heating in for a couple of years now and see what they say.  mind you i am terrible one for having cold feet but i think i'll get some warm slippers !


----------



## NIGO15

Well if you put it like that, thats a very good point!! I tend to get very warm when heating is on and like to be able to cool down in an instant!! So underfloor maybe a bad idea for me.


----------



## Leo

NIGO15 said:


> Well if you put it like that, thats a very good point!! I tend to get very warm when heating is on and like to be able to cool down in an instant!! So underfloor maybe a bad idea for me.


 
Many proponents of ufh claim that the heat produced is more pleasant than that of conventional heating systems, so I wouldn't rule it out without a little more research. You could always open a window to cool down...


----------



## NIGO15

Well, Leo I Heard That Alright! More Likely I Will Go With Ufh Downstairs And Rads Up. I'm Building A Timberframe House. Some People Say They Hardly Turn On Rads Any Time Of Year!! Thanks For Your Help. 
What Are Your Views On Wood Pellet Boilers? I Was Thinking Of Going For Oil And Maybe Leaving The Possibility Of Switching To Wood Pellets Or Geo Thermal Later On.


----------



## qwerty?

NIGO15 said:


> Well, Leo I Heard That Alright! More Likely I Will Go With Ufh Downstairs And Rads Up. I'm Building A Timberframe House. Some People Say They Hardly Turn On Rads Any Time Of Year!! Thanks For Your Help.
> What Are Your Views On Wood Pellet Boilers? I Was Thinking Of Going For Oil And Maybe Leaving The Possibility Of Switching To Wood Pellets Or Geo Thermal Later On.


 
Rads with Geothermal is not really a good option as the water temp is too low to heat radiators. Unless you go the special radiator route, I think they are aluminium.


----------



## NIGO15

Ooh!! Never Thought Of That One Querty. Thanks. Well I Guess That Rules Out That Idea. Wood Pellet PROB Only Option To Switch. Do You Know If Solar Panels Could Work Heating Water With An Oil Burner?


----------



## Leo

NIGO15, could you avoid typing in all CAPS. vBulletin automatically converts this so that the first letter of each word is capitalised. This makes posts more difficult to read.
Cheers,
Leo


----------



## dmac

I am hoping to go down the geothermal route provided i have enough space, my site is 0.75 acre and i plan to build a 2000 - 2200 sq ft house and garage should i have enough space for the pipes, site is totally flat with no trees. Also i see alot of posts on the cost per day to run the heat pumps is it possible to use a small wind mill to run the pump if so is there people out there doing it my site is quite high and it seems that wind when available should be utilised


----------



## F.D

I heard the Heat pump draws to much power for a small wind turbine to handle, i am also interested if there is someone who has sucessfully tried this


----------



## davidoco

dmac said:


> I am hoping to go down the geothermal route provided i have enough space, my site is 0.75 acre and i plan to build a 2000 - 2200 sq ft house and garage should i have enough space for the pipes, site is totally flat with no trees. Also i see alot of posts on the cost per day to run the heat pumps is it possible to use a small wind mill to run the pump if so is there people out there doing it my site is quite high and it seems that wind when available should be utilised



You will find that the power required by the heat pump, I guess at between 3.1Kw and 5Kw can't be supplied by a small domestic wind turbine running at max 2Kw.   A 1.5kw wind/solar electricity farm will cost you upwards of €6,000.


----------



## NIGO15

No Bother Leo. ALRIGHT


----------



## nod

Just wondering which method is healthier for yourself, heating system with rads or under floor?


----------



## metallurjix

nod said:


> Just wondering which method is healthier for yourself, heating system with rads or under floor?


Apparently the UFH is the better system. Rads create convection and draughts, hot air rises mostly straight up. Again, apparently this moves dust around in the circulating air, allergens and all that jazz. If you have cold feet, the only way you get them warm is by putting your feet on the radiator! You'll still have cold feet, but you'll have a stifling, muggy heat around the upper body. 
If your feet are warm, you're most likely to feel generally warm anyway, which is why UFH requires less heat. That makes perfect sense to me, because if I go to bed with cold feet, it can takes me hours to fall asleep.

I've been following these posts for the same reasons: want to install GHP and UFH, but being new to Ireland, want to see who's good and root out the cowboys, as well as find out how effective (and cost-effective) it is.


----------



## mugatu

My friend in Meath has a 3500 sq ft house (mansion?). It was built last year with  geothermal installed. He has estimated the cost of running the geothermal pumps, etc amounted to over 2000 euro for the whole of a year. It took him quite a bit to figure out how much the geothermal system was using.

He ended up taking a walk around with an Electrisave monitor (they seem to be available in ireland now - see here:  [broken link removed] - no connection to the company)  and figured out a whole load of other things also, such as the exorbiant cost of running his fancy kitchen lighting (around 20 spotlights).

The message that I took from all of this is that you need to approach renewable energy systems as a whole - no single system will solve all your problems. I agree with davidoco about the ineffectiveness of wind turbines to cover the costs of running large pumps. In fact, I've been wondering whether installers are overspecifying the pumps in some cases?


----------



## qwerty?

mugatu said:


> My friend in Meath has a 3500 sq ft house (mansion?). It was built last year with geothermal installed. He has estimated the cost of running the geothermal pumps, etc amounted to over 2000 euro for the whole of a year. It took him quite a bit to figure out how much the geothermal system was using.


 
our house is 3500 sq foot also. The GSHP running costs were around 900. (not estimated). Wonder if his soil is unsuitable?

Also you can get low wattage downlighters, we have about 30 of them, and don't find them expensive to run. I think they are 'robus'.


----------



## onekeano

Very interested in this topic and just wondering if I could use geothermal for the following:

I am planning to add a 2 storey extension to my house. I live in an Dublin and have a convential gadren c.70ft in length. I know most of the posters have large sites which are ideal for collectors but I have heard with a smallish garden another option is go go VERY DEEP. If anyone can point me in the right direction on this it would be much appreciated.

thanks 
Roy


----------



## JoeHooker

Onekeano,

Any of the geothermal providers will over a verticle collector if required, just be aware this is alot costlier than a horizontal collector.

Mugatu,

i think there is a problem with the system your mate is using has a problem, although you should enquire to his level of insulation, there is no point in heating the atmosphere i always say, a house of that size should only cost €1,000 a year to heat and hot water.


----------



## onekeano

Thanks Joe, just did a bit of research and saw one mention of 26k for horizontal collector (think it was for a new build). The grant appears to be 6.5k for this type of collector which is great. If anyone has put geothermal into an standard semi-detached house I'd be very grateful if they could advise on their experience.

The other thing I was wondering is should I look for a single provider for the solar panels and geothermal solution? If so is there any one provider that people would  recommend?

thanks again
Roy




JoeHooker said:


> Onekeano,
> 
> Any of the geothermal providers will over a verticle collector if required, just be aware this is alot costlier than a horizontal collector.
> 
> Mugatu,
> 
> i think there is a problem with the system your mate is using has a problem, although you should enquire to his level of insulation, there is no point in heating the atmosphere i always say, a house of that size should only cost €1,000 a year to heat and hot water.


----------



## jool

Hi Fisherman,
I am interested in finding out where in Poland you found the heatpump supplier and who you got to bring it home and for what price? Its the same old story here in Ireland, you pay premium prices for standard off the shelf products in any other country and any grants there are appear to be gobbled up by the suppliers.


----------



## thefisherman

hi jool,ordered thermia diplomat tws 10 last week from polish distributor nordica.com.pl(look up thermia homepage).there is a10 week delay before pump is ready for collection in poland (comes from sweden)and price was quoted as 40559 kroner or 4446 euro plus irish vat of 21%.. i have been quoted price of 600 euro  by dublin company to bring it from gdansk to west cork.


----------



## surfsearcher

Hi all, just came across this discussion, I may be able to add some info and hopefully learn some more myself. I installed a GSHP early in 2001 and while its not been as efficiant as I hoped even after much tweaking its been working away for six years now and from what I can make out Im still making a saving from oil. The house is 3200 sq ft, timber frame, high insulation spec, underfloor domstairs, alum rads upstairs, but my total ESB for last year was just over €2000, (Lights, heating and water and everything) this may be due too my soil type which is very sandy, although at the time I was told it was ideal, or the fact that I have a small workshop which I use regularly. Never the less, I have made a few observations over the last few years;
Carpets definately do slow down/stifle the heat emmision from the floor, we have one in the living room and I had to lift it and remove the underlay but its still a slow room to heat up,
Floating laminate floors are worse, I used a 2 mm foam layer between the floor and boards on one room which probably didnt help,
I have tiles everywhere else and they are ideal,
Long cold dry snaps the pump struggles to keep the house up to temperature with a noticable difference as soon as it rains,
My system is quite old now compared to the new ones and my pump only brings the water temp to about 35 degrees C and its boosted at night with the immersion which Im sure adds a lot to the ESB cost also,
Even so the whole cost of installation was only 12k so Im not sure an upgrade is justified yet,
Any comments?


----------



## qwerty?

I think your ESB bill of €2000 for a year is very good, Surfsearcher. Have you bothered with nightsaver? esp. with the fact you are heating the water at night with the Immersion. 

Fair play to you for putting it in 6 years ago.


----------



## surfsearcher

Thanks, I wasnt sure how economical I was being and have been seeing figures of €900 to €1200 for a 3500 sq ft house which sounds excellent, I wonder does this include the normal domestic ESB also or just the pump?, Yes I had the nightsaver meter installed in the beginning, its essential, I run washing machines etc only at night and have cfl bulbs all round etc, my total averave usage is aprox 20,200 units /anum with aprox 60% of this used on the nightsaver, I can work out exact figures if anyone wants.
Yea it was a bit daunting putting the system in at first that long ago, nobody else had ever heared of geothermal and I had a load of people arrive at the door asking questions etc but a good learning experience.
Any comments on how suitable very sandy soil is? I would have thought damp boggy clay type was better?
Cheers,


----------



## qwerty?

surfsearcher said:


> Thanks, I wasnt sure how economical I was being and have been seeing figures of €900 to €1200 for a 3500 sq ft house which sounds excellent, I wonder does this include the normal domestic ESB also or just the pump?, ,


 
They were my figures you saw. Thats just the geothermal costs. I put a separate meter on this to keep a check on running costs.




surfsearcher said:


> Yea it was a bit daunting putting the system in at first that long ago, nobody else had ever heared of geothermal and I had a load of people arrive at the door asking questions etc but a good learning experience.,


I know the feeling  



surfsearcher said:


> Any comments on how suitable very sandy soil is? I would have thought damp boggy clay type was better?
> Cheers,


sandy soil is not supposed to be very good, as it drains too quick, but sure if it's working don't worry about it.


----------



## surfsearcher

qwerty? said:


> They were my figures you saw. Thats just the geothermal costs. I put a separate meter on this to keep a check on running costs.
> 
> Thats good to here, I dont feel so bad now although I recently recieved my final bill for this year and it was a bit worse than last year so I have just analysed the total averages since 2002, brief summary as follows;
> 
> *Average units used per anum **        21,274 **Average day units**          9,374 **44%**Average night units**        11,900 **56%*
> 
> Note this is for total ESB costs, GSHP, lights immersion etc,
> I estimate the heat pump to use approx 60% of the total which would equate to about 12,760 units/annum.
> 
> sandy soil is not supposed to be very good, as it drains too quick, but sure if it's working don't worry about it.


 
Yes that makes sense although my anual figures probably are not that bad overall considering Im using rads and immersion, in a few years time I might upgrade to a borehole, Im close to the beach and could probably hit groundwater very easilly. In hindsight this would have been the better collector to use. 
Does anyone know if the grants available are relative to the heat pump , the collector or the whole system? Can I just upgrade the collector and get the full grant? That would almost pay for it!


----------



## mudhut

So I have being reading thru this thread a couple of times ,  and the info here is invaluable ,  no contractor would ever tell you whats being discussed here ..  I am getting ready for my build early next year (feb 08),  and here is what i have come up with... SIP panel Timber Frame built (just submitted plans to SIP/Tek style TF companys)  on a well insulated foundation, (still working out kinks for foudation) underfloor heating via geothermal up and downstairs, 1st floor will be joist based, and UFH installed accordingly (check out Sei.ie or Wavin.Uk.... no affiliation !!) still undecided on insulation for roof/attic,/slate/ecoslate  I am currently waiting for prices on windows from contrators found here at AAM,  for Dbl glazed argon filled aluclad style windows and doors.

One  problem I have with UFH is I want to use a wide plank natural plank for floor ,  but I no this probably end up warping wth radiant heat !! ,  one soloution is this ..   I have being in contact with a flooring company based in york, pensalvannia U.S.  who deal in recaimed wood from old barns and railway sleepers..  any wood that has being exposed to the harsh winters and searing hot summers here in the U.S.  has to be able to stand up to a radiant heat system ,  this requires further investigation ...!!  

I am welcome to any suggestions or criticism or questions with this post...  Good luck to All


MudHut


----------



## z109

mudhut said:


> One  problem I have with UFH is I want to use a wide plank natural plank for floor ,  but I no this probably end up warping wth radiant heat !! ,  one soloution is this ..   I have being in contact with a flooring company based in york, pensalvannia U.S.  who deal in recaimed wood from old barns and railway sleepers..  any wood that has being exposed to the harsh winters and searing hot summers here in the U.S.  has to be able to stand up to a radiant heat system ,  this requires further investigation ...!!



Hi mudhut,
I have UFH with geothermal and wooden floors (Junckers). I think you may run into a problem even with old wood in Ireland as the damp summers (when the UFH is not on) cause the floors to swell, while the winters (with the UFH on) cause the floors to contract. Mad isn't it? You'd think the winters were the cause of damp! Anyway, I would worry for you that in the summer the old wood would bow as it expanded.

For the continuation of this thread, our full electricity bill for a 220 sq m. house with lots of glass came to €2000. I reckon about €1200 of that was for the heating/hot water.


----------



## mudhut

Hi Yoganmahew.  do you have a floating floor or are your boards glued directly to slab ?  I have heard engineered floors are more suitable for UFH .. but I am set on natural.. One floor guy told me to just leave a qurarter inch or so between wall and floor boards to allow for movement.

here is a link to the floor guy I found on the web no affiliation !! [broken link removed]


----------



## z109

mudhut said:


> Hi Yoganmahew.  do you have a floating floor or are your boards glued directly to slab ?  I have heard engineered floors are more suitable for UFH .. but I am set on natural.. One floor guy told me to just leave a qurarter inch or so between wall and floor boards to allow for movement.
> 
> here is a link to the floor guy I found on the web no affiliation !! [broken link removed]


Floating.

Beware - many guys will tell you many things. You won't see them again in a blue fit. Try and get a guy who has a land-line number who advertises in the yellow pages. No guarantee that they will be any good, but it does at least mean they may be there to complain to and they aren't just going to go and buy another ready-to-go phone.

The Junckers floor I have is solid beech. They also do wide (12.7cm) plank versions of some woods.

The agedwoods place is pricey, isn't it? About the same as Junckers excluding shipping.


----------



## mudhut

Hello yoganmahew 

There is nothing Cheap about them ,  I have looked around and found that all wide plank / manufacturers and suppliers are in the same price range ,  trees are not let mature to those widths anymore making wide planks an expensive item.  guess it comes down to personal taste

MudHut


----------



## galwaytt

I know we're all on the same page, kindof.........but the OP said UFH and electric. To me, that's electric UFH.........although that would be nuts........

Anyhoo, regarding to UFH/or not UFH, I would say this: I have UFH for 10 years, and just completed a new build with UFH everywhere, so I've good experience of it from a long term perspective.

Some people like warm/hot houses - some like ones bordering on freezing. I like the former, and my SO even more so, and you couldn't give me rads for free - I had UFH downstairs and rads upstairs in my last house, and the rads are a pain. Big, stupid, inefficient.

I don't agree that the house responds too slowly, although it does respond slower than rads. There again it's supremely comfortable, and that's worth something to me.

Actually, carpet isn't so bad, but laminate isn't great. I have tiles nearly everywhere, and 15mm engineered floor in the master bed, and it's very good.

Did all the maths, and geo is just not at the races, price wise, so didn't bother. Did do solar + LPG though, and it definately works. Would not advise oil or solid fuel for UFH systems.


----------



## Quasiff

galwaytt said:


> Did all the maths, and geo is just not at the races, price wise, so didn't bother. Did do solar + LPG though, and it definately works. Would not advise oil or solid fuel for UFH systems.


 
Why not oil? Isn't the controllability of oil the same as LPG and the net energy cost lower?


----------



## Bink

DQuinn said:


> HiPoppy,
> 
> here are the average daily running costs per month since I started recording the meter.
> 
> February€4.53
> March€4.02
> April€4.10
> May€2.67
> June€1.23
> July€1.01
> August€1.38
> 
> Total Daily Average€2.71


 
DQuinn, Just looking at your figures (which are a great help, so thx!) Just a question in relation to the calculation of the 'Daily Average'. Did you take into account the different number of days per month? It looks like you totaled the daily average per month and devided it by 7 months?
If you calcualte the weighted average you are looking at a (slightly) lower daily running cost of €2.68
(I'll try to explain the calcualtion. Weighted average = (daily ave x days in that month) = Monthly total. Sum all monthly totals and devide by the sum of days for all months.)

So doing even better


----------



## Wobs

Mudhut,

We have wide board engineered floors in our house. We glued them down and have had no problems. You said you wanted a natural board, the top 5-6mm is a natural wood its just the bottom part which is engineered. You get as much natural wood as a full solid board from the tounge and groove up, so you have as much wood to sand back over the years as a fully solid board.


----------



## sas

Quasiff said:


> Why not oil? Isn't the controllability of oil the same as LPG and the net energy cost lower?


 
LPG boilers apparently are more efficient at lower temperatures which pairs them nicely with UFH.


----------



## ted

> LPG boilers apparently are more efficient at lower temperatures which pairs them nicely with UFH.


 
My standard Firebird boiler sends out water between 60 C and 90 c. With the flow at 60c the water takes between 2 and 4 hours to return to the boiler at 60c and yet the temp of the screed is between 30 and 40 c owing to the manifold mixing valve. The manifold valve mixes according to the heating curve selected. I'm not sure that the LPG system would be less expensive given the fact that it is more expensive than oil.


----------



## BarneyMc

I have full planning permission and hope to build a 3,000 sq ft dormer next year. I'm currently looking at building with Poroton block or else extra wide cavity standard block built house with bonded bead. Anyway I am considering UFH but have the following questions about UFH:

Is it inefficient as the floor must be kept heated during the night and day when nobody may be in the house? Would it not be more efficient to flick a switch and heat the house via radiators when required? What about all the eveings you decide to go out, weekends spent away, who needs heat in the house at night...

Do the controls 'know' when really cold weather is on the way and adjust accordingly? If a frosty night appears for example will the system know to turn up the temp that day in anticipation of the cold night?

For spring and autumn when the central heating is not required every day what happens when a cold evening appears? Won't it be too late to turn the underfloor heating on that evening or is it just left on all the time (inefficient?). Likewise in the middle of summer if there happens to be a cold evening? Perhaps a secondary system such as wood pellet stove would be the answer?

If solid fuel and oil is unsuitable for UFH then does that leave you with geothermal and LPG? I'm not convinced geothermal is viable (huge initial cost, potential lack of heat from ground, rising electric costs and the cost of replacing the equipment some day - probably just as it has paid for itself!!).

Anyway doing a bit of a devil's advocate on UFH... sounds really nice but just thinking of the practical considerations (cost!) and trying to figure the true cost of 'always on' UFH compared to conventional 'heat when needed' approach of radiators.

All comments welcome!!


----------



## JoeHooker

Barney my dear man,

As we all know short trips in a vehicle in and out of town, from carpark to carpark getting the old prezzies the car uses up more petrol in the short period to start the car, drive a short distance and stop again. It's more efficient to heat the floor to a required temperature, rather than heat it when required, turn it off when not required and then fire it up again when you want the house heated. 

Since this is in the Geothermal section, my heat pump has an outdoor temperature sensor that can tell what the weather is doing outside and accordingly works harder or easier depending on the requirements.
My pump works for 4 hours in the morning and heats enough hot water for the ufh, washing the body and the dishes. If you set the pump at a low enough temperature in the Autumn, Spring it'll just keep ticking over, and you'll always require hot water i'm sure. You wouldn't have turned off the heat this summer anyway, were getting better weather now than in June/July. 

I think you should break done the cost of any Geothermal/UFH quote you'll get going on the size of your house in comparison to yours i'd say you'll pay €8,000 on the UFH piping alone, and thats with any system you'll go for. It seems to me your not giving any hope for UFH and Geothermal at all. Make sure if you do go for a Heat Pump you go with a experienced firm, to many people have been stung with this thats why Geo is getting the bad rap, if its not properly installed you may as well throw your greens into your big open fire.


----------



## galwaytt

ted said:


> My standard Firebird boiler sends out water between 60 C and 90 c. ...........and yet the temp of the screed is between 30 and 40 c owing to the manifold mixing valve.


 
That's exactly my point -you're heating the water 60-90, and you only need 30-40.  

Why not just heat it 30-40, is my point - oil burners (and solid fuel) can't do that, but gas ones can, that's all I'm pointing out.

And, if LPG is more expensive than oil, on a per-litre basis -what does that matter, if you're using fewer litres??


----------



## BarneyMc

JoeHooker said:


> It's more efficient to heat the floor to a required temperature, rather than heat it when required, turn it off when not required and then fire it up again when you want the house heated.


 
Thanks for the reply Joe. Perhaps I should have placed my comments in the UFH post rather than Geothermal. Apologies.

Anyway if going with UFH then obviously you keep the heat ticking over. As an extreme example however, if I am only in the house 2-3 days a week would it still be better to have UFH running 7 days a week rather than heat the house with radiators for 4-5 hours each of the 2-3 days as required? In other words is it not a lifestyle choice?

Like your analogy with the car, if I only use it when really needed then is that not better than keeping a super efficient one running the whole time? Tks, Barney


----------



## Bobbins

galwaytt said:


> Actually, carpet isn't so bad, but laminate isn't great.


 
Sorry to muscle in on thread   but was just wondering does this include laminate that is glued directly to concrete or just a floating laminate?


----------



## Quasiff

galwaytt said:


> That's exactly my point -you're heating the water 60-90, and you only need 30-40.
> 
> Why not just heat it 30-40, is my point - oil burners (and solid fuel) can't do that, but gas ones can, that's all I'm pointing out.
> 
> And, if LPG is more expensive than oil, on a per-litre basis -what does that matter, if you're using fewer litres??


 
Surely the mixing manifold will make sure you only add enough energy whatever temperature the primary heat source is at? If so, then LPG is going to be more costly to run than oil, assuming SEI net energy costs are correct.


----------



## Quasiff

JoeHooker said:


> As we all know short trips in a vehicle in and out of town, from carpark to carpark getting the old prezzies the car uses up more petrol in the short period to start the car, drive a short distance and stop again. It's more efficient to heat the floor to a required temperature, rather than heat it when required, turn it off when not required and then fire it up again when you want the house heated.


 
This doesn't make sense to me. The house is losing heat by conduction in proportion to the temperature difference between inside and outside. If you keep the house warmer when you aren't there, you lose more heat by conduction than if the house is colder.


----------



## BarneyMc

With recent increases in oil prices, does this support the use of geothermal v traditional oil boliers? Surely electricity prices will soon rise with oil and thus increase the cost of the geothermal heating method?


----------



## Zutz

For anyone who is interested, I have moved into a new house 3,400 sq.ft. since december. From my calculations all my heat and hot water requirements are costing circa. €25 per week and thats for constant hot water with a constant temp of 21 degrees in living areas and bathrooms and 18 degrees in the bedrooms. Given that the last month has been extremely cold I think that this is extremely economical when compared to any other heating system?


----------



## Sailor

I built a new house in 2005 and put in an Avenir (french) geothermal system supplied by WHI (Warm Floor Irl), now based in Dungannon. I found them very professional and supplied me, with drawings for everything ) plumbing, electrical etc.
The system is working very well, and cheap to run (basic running cost is 30 night units at €.07 per unit. It depends on time of year and temp. if you need a top up during the day, maybe for a couple of hours( that would be at €.14 per unit.
I also put in a Pallazetti pellet stove in the living room, which is also interlinked by design by the same firm, for the reasons that it is useful for additional space heating, puts heat into the Domestic Hot Water, and it is nicer to look at than an empty grate.
A general rule for size of horizontal ground collector is 1.5 times the square footage of your house.
I hope the above is of some help to you.


----------



## Johny D

For the domestic hot water, does the geothermal unit heat the water to the desired temperature or is an electric elememt used to heat the water by a few more degrees?

Without using a top up from an element, what would be the typical temperature available at a hot water tap or bath tub?


----------



## EamonK

Hi All,
We installed a Nibe HP and UFH in both floors of our 3500sqft house. Its block built with kingspan in cavities and insulated slabs on external walls, plus low E glass (plenty of windows). Kingspan in the attic rafters and some 4" rock wool in the josts. So hopefully well insulated. We are on a hill and can see the sea so there is a lot of wind at times.

Mostly tiles d/stairs and all bedrooms have the click-floors with cork underlay.

The HP is running since August, and we ebentually moved in before Christmas.
Still in the process of having the sytem balanced to spread the heat efficently through the house.

Since we moved in we watched the ESB meter and recorded daily units. 
Our average use is 30 units during the night and 43 units during the day.

Apparently this is fine but not from our end when its costing €10 a day.
We are told over the year it should cost €1800 to heat the house and provide ample hot water.

Be interested in peoples feedback.


----------



## johnnyg

EamonK,

what type NIBE HP did you get, i was planning to get the fighter 1240, our house will be 3200 sqft, block built, similar insulation, 10 euro's a day is very expensive, it would have been cheaper to go with oil if you take the initial cost in to account.
Did you go for vertical or horizontal


----------



## EamonK

Went with Fighter 1140 plus the 450/300 VPA tank and a horizontal collector array.

Meant to say - we have disabled the built-in immersion heater since early Jan as it was costing more.


----------



## johnnyg

so are your costs only for running pump, have you spoken to the installer if the system is commissioned properly.

Have you checked if your system is on 24/7 or are the stats feeding back to the pump shutting it off which should be the case once the desired temp is reached.


----------



## pops

Hi Poppy1
We have lived in our 1800 sq ft. house for exactly one year with geothermal.  Our running costs for the year come to approx. €1200.  This includes heat, water, lights, showers everything in fact.  
We designed the house to make the most of the sunlight, with no windows facing north and small windows facing east.  We installed a heat-recovery vent. system and insulated as much as we could afford to and switch off our heating from May(ish) to Sept.  We also installed a wood pellet stove for a quick blast of heat should the temp. outside drop.  We use it in v. cold weather .  We installed rads. upstairs but have them switched off as the heat from downstairs is sufficient.  We don't have a dryer either.  We are a family of 5 who work from home a lot.  The temp. average is 22C in winter and 24 in Summer.
Hope this helps.


----------



## silkyjoe

Hi all,
Just received planning permission for a 3,400sq ft house on an elevated site and trying to decide on what heating system to use. I want to go with geothermal (and ufh) but worry that the initial outlay will not be offset by lower ongoing costs. I've learned alot from reading the contributions but a few issues still remain.
1. does the soil type have a big impact on the efficiency of the system?
2. does an elevated site make any difference? (I have enough space for horizontal system)
3. is there much difference between the brands of heat pumps?
A few posts have mentioned that there are alot of new players in the market - any recommendation for reputable companies with plenty of experience in the midlands? 

Appreciate any advice.


----------



## johnnyg

Silkyjoe,

The soil type determines if horizontal is possible, a clay soil is preferable, the wetter the site the better to receive a good COP.
If going vertical, an elevated site may be more costly depending on depth of bore hole and water level but local agent should be able to tell you this, if you have a hight water table will give you a better COP.
If looking at different types of heat pumps look at ther COP rating, the two main types are NIBE and Thermia in ireland.
Look at sei: 
 
[broken link removed]

Hope this helps


----------



## alert

Hi guys,

What temperature is your heatpump set to? Assuming that the HP runs 24/7 can you tell me how long it needs to run to "top up" to this temperature and how long does it "idle" before kicking in again?

Thank you,

ALERT.


----------



## kilbird

Eamon K
I am also interestec in getting a geothermal system and at this stage am just concerned that the running costs will not be as LOW as expected. can I ask:
(1) Which supplierr/installer did u use?
(2) How much collector pipe was used?
(3) What thickness of insulation did u use on flooor and in walls?

Any help at all would be appreciated? before I pull my hair out!


----------



## EamonK

We have a NIBE 1140 Fighter Heatpump. 

There was 600 metres of a collector pipe put in 4 trenches 1 metre deep in the back garden.

We have 50mil kingspan in the groundfloor, 25mil kingspan in the firstfloor and the cavity walls have 60mil kingspan, plus an additional insulated plasterboard slab on all external walls. The attic is insulated with 100mil kingspan in the raffters and 100mil rockwool in the joists.


----------



## kilbird

*Re: Geothermal ESB  get ying toor a year*

Thanks for that Eamon K - just wondering who your supplier was and if they did the install or someone else did the install? Can't decide between 2 companies so trying to get feedback on all companies


----------



## garyvwtdi174

thermia is the best heat pump bye a mile


----------



## extopia

Why do you say that? And don't you know we've gone metric now?


----------



## Wobs

Yeah that's a fairly sweeping statement there Gary! Care to tell us why?


----------



## DavyJones

I find this very interesting, can someone with it installed please give me more details.

Would I be right to say average heating/hot water costs €1000 - €1300 P.A

How much was initial cost of installing geo,heat pump and UFH?


----------



## davidoco

EamonK said:


> ..... 3500sqft house......€10 a day...


 


pops said:


> 1800 sq ft. approx. €1200.


 
Comparing the two posters above it looks like 


both systems are relatively expensive to run
both are incorrectly set up
€1.50 per sq foot per year is a running cost for electricity (all) and Geotherm
(using the figures provided)
Poster sq ft annual per sq ft
POPS 1800 €1,200 €0.66
EAMONNK 3500 €4,958 €1.42

For comparision
my house 2,000 sq feet (and rising)

ESB costs €200 bimonthly x 6 = 1200
Two fills of OIL (2000 ltrs) = 1200 - although price does vary for oil

Total €2400 / 2000 sq ft = €1.20  per sq foot.

PS standard efficiency oil boiler cost €800 serviced annually - house fully zoned with programmable stats.
PS2 For EAMONNK I took electricity price per unit to be €0.18 and 70 units used per day therefore if there is a night rate meter fitted figures would have to be amended.


----------



## extopia

davidoco said:


> ESB costs €200 bimonthly x 6 = 1200
> Two fills of OIL (2000 ltrs) = 1200 - although price does vary for oil
> 
> Total €2400 / 2000 sq ft = €0.83 cent per sq foot.



You've divided the wrong way there. Your number is actually €1.20 per sq. foot.


----------



## davidoco

extopia said:


> You've divided the wrong way there. Your number is actually €1.20 per sq. foot.



Sorry folks. Thanks well spotted - I was actually surprised it was that low.  POPS also fixed as I did the same there.


Poster      sq ft       annual     per sq ft
POPS       1800       €1,200    €0.66
EAMONNK     3500    €4,958     €1.42
DAVIDOCO    2000    €2400    €1.20


----------



## Wobs

My House is about 2800 sq ft. My total ESB bill for the year is about €1700, this includes all regular house use and the heat pump which does all heating and hot water without any back up.


----------



## Robanne

We moved into our new house in dec 08....the house is 2877 sq feet with an underfloor geothermal heating system. Our first bills seem to be coming in around 400 per 2 mths but that includes all power to the house which I dont think is too bad.  And the heat was on 24/7 for 3 weeks before we moved in.  We have a very high ceiling in the hall and kitchen and the temperture seems to be grand. I do miss having a stove though but we cant afford to fit one at the moment. We also have a HRV system which seems to be working too. With regard to the controls..sometimes I feel a bit chilly from 6 to 9 in the evening but the heat is only set on the night rate and at the moment I have cut it to 4 hours a night. I suspect the next bill will be around the same...System cost us a fortune to put in so I am hoping that we will get back what we put in over the next 10 years. Time will tell though!


----------



## thefisherman

my house is 2500 square foot approx and the esb bill from feb 08 to feb 09 was 1600 euro for every thing,  i have a thermia hp with ufh downstairs and rads up stairs. i have never used the rads as  there is no need.by the way i bought my thermia hp from poland as it was a hell  of a lot cheaper than buying it in ireland


----------



## flashover

hi
just wondering how did you manage to purchase through Poland? i am looking at buying a thermia heat pump (14k).. any cheaper options would be greatly appreciated


----------



## thefisherman

simple,look up thermia website,find the agent in poland or where ever and go in that website and get phone numbers and start phoning


----------



## Galwaygirl

Just calculated electricity usage for first full year in new house, geothermal, UFH. 5933 day units, 6483 night units.
Calculating at todays costs (17.52 per day unit, 8.67 per night) and standing charge 43.8 per day it works out at approx 2000 euro inc VAT. 
From 4th Nov to 6th Mar accounts for 900 euro of the cost, this coincides with peak heat usage. Monthly running costs went up by about 90euro and the house was toasty all through the winter.
ESB usage includes all heating costs, some hotwater (solar panels as well) and the usual ESB guzzling appliances, dishwasher once a day night rate, drier and washing machine once a day each, one of them at night rate. Use of these appliances was consistent through the year due to wet weather and muddy site conditions. 
I have to say as someone who has lived in many freezing houses I am delighted with my warm, well insulated and draught free house. It is nice putting a fire on for effect rather than necessity! 
House is 2500 square feet.


----------



## churchtowner

Hope I'm not messing things up- this is my first post. Was interested in the ESB costs of the heat pump. Ours working out at €8.33 per day  (over the last 247 days) or €3053pa which seems excessive. It's brand new. We have night rate but the pump seems to do a good bit of its work (at least 45%) during the day. Any thoughts- ? Figs seem simialr to some but a lot more than most. House newly refurbed , circa 2500sf. thanks in advance, k


----------



## Cayne

churchtowner said:


> Hope I'm not messing things up- this is my first post. Was interested in the ESB costs of the heat pump. Ours working out at €8.33 per day (over the last 247 days) or €3053pa which seems excessive. It's brand new. We have night rate but the pump seems to do a good bit of its work (at least 45%) during the day. Any thoughts- ? Figs seem simialr to some but a lot more than most. House newly refurbed , circa 2500sf. thanks in advance, k


 
Switch to one of the ESB competitors and save up to 14% a year on costs, which in your case would be quite significant.


http://www.bordgaisenergy.ie/


----------



## tulip

just a quick question, how many units sholud a geo pump consume within in the year. i know it will be higher in the winter but over the year how many units for a 2100 sq foot house, average?


----------



## nediaaa

Hi. We installed a 8kw heatpump (Thermia Atria) for our 2200sq ft house. We used an air unit instead of the ground pipes. Our electricity bills for the year for last 2 years averaged 1250euro. The air unit is more efficient as not pumping brine through the ground. We have t temp. sensor outside so the pump adjusts to the drop in temp. We are delighted with the system


----------



## dj01

Also installed a Thermia Atria air source heat pump in our new build last year, but the larger model 12kw. Total electricity cost for the year for 2900sq ft came in at €1,736


----------



## jgm

Have you any back up system with the air source heat pump or is it sufficient on its own in extreme conditions


----------



## dawalster

we have  ufh and our bills are €600 every 2 months(that covers all elec used) which seems a bit on the pricey side. our house is 4years old, single story, timber frame, aero thermal heat pump. any help or advice on reducing this cost would be greatly appreciated


----------



## Shane007

dawalster said:


> we have ufh and our bills are €600 every 2 months(that covers all elec used) which seems a bit on the pricey side. our house is 4years old, single story, timber frame, aero thermal heat pump. any help or advice on reducing this cost would be greatly appreciated


 
To answer, would require a lot more info. I presume your aero thermal heat pump is an air to water heat pump. 
Do you have a back up heat source? I would imagine if you do not, the 4kw element back-up heater has been working overtime and is on pretty much all the time. Probably no heat whatsoever coming from heat pump when we had the extreme cold weather and dimishing as temperature goes below freezing.

Is there a buffer tank between the heat pump and heating system? 

How are you heating domestic hot water? Is it just from heat pump or are you boosting with immersion?


----------

