# Can the US spouse of Irish citizen work here?



## imogen (26 Jun 2007)

Hi all

I have been asked to find out the situation regarding a non-national spouse of an Irish citizen - do they need to apply for a work permit? (the role envisaged is an administrative one so it would not qualify under the recent changes to the work permit scheme).

My understanding was that spouses of EU citizens have the right to work without a permit but I just want to check...

Thanks

Imogen


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## ClubMan (26 Jun 2007)

[broken link removed]?


> *Work permit not necessary*
> 
> As a foreign national, you do not need a work permit if you are in one of the following categories:
> ...
> ...


 And:


> *Irish citizens
> 
> * A foreign national who marries an Irish citizen does not have an automatic entitlement to live in Ireland.  Your spouse is governed by the same rules as apply to all foreign nationals.


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## gipimann (26 Jun 2007)

There's a helpline operated by the Immigrant Council of Ireland which can give detailed information on immigration law and employment rights. 

See www.immigrantcouncil.ie


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## Brooklyn (26 Jun 2007)

I deal with this on a regular basis as part of my job.  Here is the situation.  Legally, there is *no* entitlement for the spouse of an Irish citizen to work or even to live here.  Justice Department policy is that they must apply for residency - which currently takes about 12 months - and while the application is being processed they are not allowed to work.

In practice, this rule has tended to be applied on a very discriminatory basis.  Until *very* recently I had never heard of a North American being subjected to it - they were always able just to go to their local Garda station, present their documents and get a residency stamp - while it was frequently applied to citizens of non-western, non-English speaking countries. However, from anecdotal evidence it appears that they are cracking down a little more heavily now on North Americans too.

The "spouse of an EU citizen" rule only applies to spouses of citizens of _EU countries other than Ireland_.  It does not apply to spouses of Irish citizens.  Sounds mad, I know, but that's how it works.  In any case the Department has lately begun enforcing a provision that says the spouse would have had to be resident in another EU country first before moving to Ireland.

So, in answer to your question, the person could chance their arm with the local Garda station, but they may well be told they have to apply first - in any event they should *not* simply be allowed to take up employment because that would definitely be illegal.


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## Dowee (27 Jun 2007)

US spouses of Irish citizens can work here. You just go to the Department of Justice (i think) on Burgh Quay (I assume there are other places around the country, depending on where you are located) and register and then get a Garda card. It is a very simple process. You don't need to apply for a permit. I think the link below is the relevant one on Oasis, they seem to have changed the site a bit.

[broken link removed]


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## Alias (27 Jun 2007)

As the Canadian spouse of an Irish citizen, I had no problem getting registered (March 07).  It is valid until my passport runs out in 2012, and allows me to work in any field. 

Registration only requires you to bring Passport, marriage cert and spouse with his/her Irish passport to the office on Burgh Quay.  Registration is required within 3 months of entering the country.  They also have to be resident and married for 3 years before they can apply for long term residency/citizenship, which is what takes at least 12 months to process.


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## imogen (27 Jun 2007)

Thank you all, what a fantastic resource askaboutmoney is...

I had already contacted the immigrant council by email - they asked me the questions about when did the person enter Ireland, were they previously resident in another EU country, are they registered with the Gardai, have they applied for residency... so everyone seems to be on the same page, I am just waiting for responses from the enquirer now.

Best wishes

Imogen


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## Brooklyn (28 Jun 2007)

Alias said:


> Registration only requires you to bring Passport, marriage cert and spouse with his/her Irish passport to the office on Burgh Quay.  Registration is required within 3 months of entering the country.  They also have to be resident and married for 3 years before they can apply for long term residency/citizenship, which is what takes at least 12 months to process.




Again, what you're talking about here is the way that the process has tended to be applied _in practice_ to North Americans such as yourself.  The stated policy of the Justice Department, however, and the practice that is usually applied to people from non-Western backgrounds, is as I posted earlier.

BTW there is a big difference between long term residency and citizenship. Citizenship applications take a lot longer than twelve months.


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## Brooklyn (28 Jun 2007)

The previous Minister for Justice explaining the position in reply to Dáil questions:

[broken link removed]
[broken link removed]


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## Dowee (28 Jun 2007)

Brooklyn,
            What you are saying seems to me to conflict with what it says on the citizens information website. Is this correct?


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## Brooklyn (28 Jun 2007)

No, it doesn't conflict.  The Citizens Information website says:



> You are entitled to apply for work in Ireland without an employment permit if you:
> are married to an Irish citizen, or are a parent of an Irish citizen *and have been granted permission to reside in the state*


Emphasis mine.


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## yygaurav (28 Jun 2007)

As far as I konw you can work. Look here for more info. 

http://www.inis.gov.ie/en/INIS/Pages/WP07000025


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## imogen (28 Jun 2007)

That link covers the situation where the person was previously resident in another EU country, not where they came directly from the US to Ireland... and are married to an Irish citizen which appears to be different as others have posted above. I'm try to get more details from the original enquirer on their exact situation. 

This has turned out to be an interesting query!

Imogen


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## Dowee (28 Jun 2007)

Imogen,
          I'm a little confused by all of what's been posted above so I'll just tell you my personal experience. My spouse is American, I'm Irish. She came here and registered in Harcourt St (as it was then). From memory all we needed was our marriage cert and my passport (and my presence of course). She got her photo taken and was given a garda card, and was able to work immediately. 

The card lasts 5 years, or to whenever your passport expires whichever is shorter. You can then renew it after 5 years.


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## ClubMan (28 Jun 2007)

If it was still _Harcourt Street _then it was presumably a few years ago and the rules have most likely changed since then?


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## Dowee (28 Jun 2007)

We renewed it last year, same rules applied.


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## Brooklyn (29 Jun 2007)

Dowee said:


> The card lasts 5 years, or to whenever your passport expires whichever is shorter.



Yet another example of the GNIB's inconsistency in these matters.  I know of several people in this circumstance who have to renew their card annually.


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## colc1 (29 Jun 2007)

sorry to change teh subject a little but was just wondering is it hard for a US citizen to get a work permit without being married to an Irish person?  In this case teh person would have a degree and a masters in Education.

I would be extremely grateful for any replies,

Thanks


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## redchariot (29 Jun 2007)

colc1 said:


> sorry to change teh subject a little but was just wondering is it hard for a US citizen to get a work permit without being married to an Irish person?  In this case teh person would have a degree and a masters in Education.
> 
> I would be extremely grateful for any replies,
> 
> Thanks



Depends. A US citizen is treated the same a any other non EU citizen; work permits are only provided in certain circumstances. For general labour, hotel etc jobs, it will be a definite no. But where you have a skill or qualification in a field where there is a shortage of Irish/EU workers e.g. civil engineering, your chances are much higher (don't know where your qualifications would fall). But bear in mind that your prospective employer has to sponser you for the work permit so therefore you need to have an agreed job beforehand.

More info at this website: http://www.entemp.ie/labour/workpermits/


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## colc1 (6 Sep 2007)

Dowee said:


> Imogen,
> I'm a little confused by all of what's been posted above so I'll just tell you my personal experience. My spouse is American, I'm Irish. She came here and registered in Harcourt St (as it was then). From memory all we needed was our marriage cert and my passport (and my presence of course). She got her photo taken and was given a garda card, and was able to work immediately.
> 
> The card lasts 5 years, or to whenever your passport expires whichever is shorter. You can then renew it after 5 years.


 
I am still a bit confused here was this ong ago your spouse came Dowee, i.e. does anyone know if things have changed?  Could she work in any job then once she got the garda card?

I would be really appreciative of any responses the websites arent to clear on my situation


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## Towger (6 Sep 2007)

colc1 said:


> Could she work in any job then once she got the garda card?



It depends on the Number/Stamp on it. I think she needs a 4.


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## colc1 (6 Sep 2007)

thanks for that anyone any ideas on how they assign nos?


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## Brooklyn (6 Sep 2007)

From the Migrant Rights Centre (www.mrci.ie)


Stamp 1 indicates that the person            is entitled to work if they have a valid work permit
Stamp 2 indicates that the person            is a student and may be entitled to work up 20 hours part time
Stamp 2A indicates that the person            is a student but is not allowed to enter employment
Stamp 3 is a limited stamp which indicates            that the person cannot work or study full time in Ireland. This is usually            given to visitors or spouse dependants
Stamp 4 indicates that the person            is entitled to work without a work permit. It is issued to people on            work visas/work authorisations, and also to, e.g., spouses of Irish            and EU citizens, refugees, people with Irish Born Child residency, people            with long term residency status.
Stamp A refers to medical practitioners            who are entitled to work
Stamp 6 gives a person permission            to remain without condition as to time


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## Alias (7 Sep 2007)

Are stamps A and 6 new?  And who qualifies for a 6?


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## BK2 (7 Sep 2007)

There is no automatic right to work but if you go to the Garda station first - immigration section - ensure you bring your partner with you and marraige cert and they will either give you the stamp 4 or state that you have to go through more proceedure. I know of couples who have gone and the spouse was given a stamp 4 straight away for 1 year. I know of another where a stamp was given for 5 years and I know of another case where they were told they had to go through a long drawn out process which took two years where they were interviewed and everything. So its like anything in Ireland it depends on the mood of the person you are dealing with on the day.........


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## Brooklyn (8 Sep 2007)

Alias said:


> And who qualifies for a 6?



People who've lived here legally a long time.  It used to be ten years, I think it's eight now.  Although like all the rest of these, it's not set down in legislation, and in practice is probably subject to some degree to the discretion of the immigration officer.


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## meganc (4 Nov 2007)

I am American, married to an Irishman. Moved here in 2005 - we were married in the states. At the airport, I presented my marriage certificate (my husband was with me) and they gave me a 10 day stamp to get to the garda station (Shannon) to apply for my Garda card with a Stamp 4. My husband accompanied me to the Garda station (as far as I know, it just has to be a station that has immigration officers), we presented passports and marriage certificate and they stamped my passport and the card came shortly thereafter. With the card I could get a PPS number and start working. I've renewed it yearly until this year and was given a 5 year card. So far, no hassles. The process is generally very straightforward.

However, it is very difficult to be a non-EU national and get a work permit. It has to be in a field where there is a genuine need for workers. I have an American friend who received one for her Masters in Social Work. Education likely wouldn't apply as the education degrees here all require Irish and obviously American degrees don't. Other fields tend to be engineering, and medical-related.


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## MapleLeaf (24 Mar 2013)

Hi I think Im on the wright track but feel as though ive been wrongly dismissed...
I am an Irish citizen through decent..(My mother was born in Ireland) I was born in Canada, but lived in Ireland as an Irish citizen since 1998. I am married to an Irish man since 2009 and have two Irish Born children. I have been working since 2007 without any knowledge of needing a work permit.. I applied for maternity leave Oct 2012 and was denied. The reason being that i did not hold a work permit. I always understood that due to *my* irish citizenship, no.4 on my GNIB, and marriage to An Irish citizen, I didnt require a work permit at all... PLEASE send any information on my situation as i am appealing this decision..


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## Jim2007 (24 Mar 2013)

MapleLeaf said:


> Hi I think Im on the wright track but feel as though ive been wrongly dismissed...
> I am an Irish citizen through decent..(My mother was born in Ireland) I was born in Canada, but lived in Ireland as an Irish citizen since 1998. I am married to an Irish man since 2009 and have two Irish Born children. I have been working since 2007 without any knowledge of needing a work permit.. I applied for maternity leave Oct 2012 and was denied. The reason being that i did not hold a work permit. I always understood that due to *my* irish citizenship, no.4 on my GNIB, and marriage to An Irish citizen, I didnt require a work permit at all... PLEASE send any information on my situation as i am appealing this decision..



Assuming that your mother still held Irish citizenship at the time of your birth, then you are Irish by birth and as such there is absolutely no need to for a work permit or any other residency documents.


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