# recession? what recession?!



## bb12 (20 May 2010)

I'm currently in the market to buy a stove for my new house build. the models i'm interested in cost circa €2k. So i rang a large stove company in carlow to get information and prices for the model i'm most interested in.  They took down all my details and phone number and said they'd call me back straight away with a price.  Three days later no word from them!

Then i rang a large stove company in wexford. again they took down my details and said they'd be back onto me with a quote. Two days later...no word from them either! 

Obviously these companies are not looking for new business in this climate!!

I've since rang a stove company in Newry, who were much more helpful providing me with all the info I was looking for and who were able to give me a quote there and then on the phone...

Guess where my money will be going?!


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## Caveat (20 May 2010)

I'm hearing this kind of thing all the time and have expereinced it myself too.

If I were you, once you have your Newry stove, I would phone back both companies to explain why they didn't get your custom.


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## galleyslave (20 May 2010)

was browsing in soundstore yesterday in Cork - spent about 5 minutes browsing tvs etc and not one salesperson in sight. Nobody asked did I need help and nobody in the dept. Thats the second time that happened... I expect them to go to the wall if they keep that up


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## MrMan (20 May 2010)

galleyslave said:


> was browsing in soundstore yesterday in Cork - spent about 5 minutes browsing tvs etc and not one salesperson in sight. Nobody asked did I need help and nobody in the dept. Thats the second time that happened... I expect them to go to the wall if they keep that up



I would guess stores are stretching their employees to the max to cut down on wages, but run the risk of this happening.


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## Sunny (20 May 2010)

galleyslave said:


> was browsing in soundstore yesterday in Cork - spent about 5 minutes browsing tvs etc and not one salesperson in sight. Nobody asked did I need help and nobody in the dept. Thats the second time that happened... I expect them to go to the wall if they keep that up


 
I actually hate it when salespeople approach me in the shop. If I need help or I want to buy something, I will ask.


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## galleyslave (20 May 2010)

plenty of staff  behind the counter chatting


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## galleyslave (20 May 2010)

Sunny said:


> I actually hate it when salespeople approach me in the shop. If I need help or I want to buy something, I will ask.



I dislike it also if they rush you immediately, but if I've been there a while I'd expect somebody to come and ask.


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## Purple (20 May 2010)

I spent 25 minutes walking around a car showroom last year and no staff approached me; they were all busy chatting and laughing at a desk. They were on the Belgard road in Tallaght and have since gone bust. Good enough for them.


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## Welfarite (20 May 2010)

I have to say I hate it when a salesperson comes up to me while browsing in a store; if they come up to me and usually give them a brush-off 'just looking' comment. After all browsing is just that; browsing not buying at the moment. If I am interested in something I approach them. It prob depends on store policy; maybe somebody involved in the game could explain what the tack is for salespersons?


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## Caveat (20 May 2010)

In fairness it can be a difficult call and is very product dependent.

E.g. in a techie IT store, there is a strong likelihood that the person may not even know what they are looking for and personally, I would gently approach them after a few minutes.

In Purple's case, a car is a big expense and a decision not to be rushed so I would be much more soft sell and would hold off approaching them for a while.  When i did approach I would do far more listening than talking - unless specifically invited to 'sell' as it were. But 25 minutes is way too long anyway IMO.


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## Purple (20 May 2010)

Caveat said:


> In Purple's case, a car is a big expense and a decision not to be rushed so I would be much more soft sell and would hold off approaching them for a while.  When i did approach I would do far more listening than talking - unless specifically invited to 'sell' as it were. But 25 minutes is way too long anyway IMO.


 In this situation it would be usual to greet a person and ask if they need help. If they said they were just looking the salesperson should keep watch and if they look over they should seek to make eye contact.


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## RonanC (20 May 2010)

Sunny said:


> I actually hate it when salespeople approach me in the shop. If I need help or I want to buy something, I will ask.


 
I actually like it when they simply acknowledge the fact that I am in the shop and say something like, "If you need any help just give us a shout"


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## MrMan (20 May 2010)

Purple said:


> I spent 25 minutes walking around a car showroom last year and no staff approached me; they were all busy chatting and laughing at a desk. They were on the Belgard road in Tallaght and have since gone bust. Good enough for them.



We all have moments when a great story is being told etc, its not professional but it might have been the exception rather than the norm. 
Sales can be a confidence killer in that when times are quiet you can find yourself wary of another rejection and therefore avoid contact, defeats the purpose of the job but everyone can go through a lull.


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## fobs (20 May 2010)

RonanC said:


> I actually like it when they simply acknowledge the fact that I am in the shop and say something like, "If you need any help just give us a shout"


 
Thats the approach I like. Ask if you need help and let you browse if you don't but hate seeing staff huddled together chatting as if it is an inconvenience to serve the customer!


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## bb12 (20 May 2010)

But what excuse can these stove companies come up with? I'm a customer with cash ready to splurge and they just did not seem one bit interested in taking it off me!


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## MrMan (20 May 2010)

bb12 said:


> But what excuse can these stove companies come up with? I'm a customer with cash ready to splurge and they just did not seem one bit interested in taking it off me!



Is it the company or the staff member who isn't interested? One bad staff member can give a company a bad name unfortunately.


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## AgathaC (20 May 2010)

RonanC said:


> I actually like it when they simply acknowledge the fact that I am in the shop and say something like, "If you need any help just give us a shout"


 That is the approach I like also. Re the OP, I would definitely let the companies know why my hard-earned cash hadnt gone their way.


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## Bronco Lane (20 May 2010)

I went to a Southside Citroen dealer yesterday to have a look at the new Citroen model. When nobody came near me I approached an individual in an office in the showroom to enquire as to the price of the model. "Havent a clue" was the answer " Talk to xxxx"  As there was no sign of xxxx I hung around for about 10 minutes. When xxxx returned after dealing with another customer I asked him who the tosser in the office was. "Ah he's the accountant" was his response.
Now there was no sign on his door to say "accounts". I wasn't to know he was the accountant. He didn't even lift his backside off his chair to offer me any help whatsoever.


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## Sue Ellen (20 May 2010)

Purple said:


> I spent 25 minutes walking around a car showroom last year and no staff approached me; they were all busy chatting and laughing at a desk. They were on the Belgard road in Tallaght and have since gone bust. Good enough for them.



I went in there twice and the same thing happened.  About 3 years ago as car sales were good I presumed it was a contributing factor.  Went in last year and spent half an hour walking around and not one person came near me.  It doesn't surprise me either that they went bust.  I phoned them some years ago about a problem covered under warranty and their customer service was appalling.  Rang another Mazda main dealer and their approach was the exact opposite.


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## Black Sheep (22 May 2010)

Since the recession I find the quality of service in shops seems to have worsened. I was recently in a major chain store with a friend who was returning to work following Maternity and wanted to buy some basic but smart workware, budget E400 to 500.

She is standard size 14 and they had only one matching pair (top and bottom). Many size 12 tops with 14 bottoms and vice versa. We were at least 20 minutes searching and took the size 14 matching set to the fitting room and was quite happy with it. Cost E130.

Nobody offered any assistance or even acknowledged our presence. The shop assistance continued to move hangers along rails in a very noisy and aggressive manner. On paying for the items we mentioned to the assistant the other items required and the budget and how she would have wished to obtain all the items to-day. No offer was made to obtain these items from another branch while there is a very notice in the shop stating items can ve ordered and delivered to your home.

Will not be shopping there in future


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## oldtimer (22 May 2010)

Sunny said:


> I actually hate it when salespeople approach me in the shop. If I need help or I want to buy something, I will ask.


Gosh - you should try and browse in Morrocco, Turkey or Egypt. They will knock you down to buy something, really pester you.


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## mtk (22 May 2010)

This is classic principal/agent problem in my view

The principal/the owner wants to make sales to make money etc.

The agent who acts on behalf of the principal - the person you deal with in a shop fro example may have other *personal* pre-occupations that can mean their motivations are not in line with those of the principal...

e.g . may be lazy, may want to leave early so customers are delaying  them etc .
I am sure you can all think of many more. 

Ultimately any agent may act in their own interests rather than the principal's ......

Think of an estate agent selling your house .....


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## Purple (23 May 2010)

mtk said:


> This is classic principal/agent problem in my view
> 
> The principal/the owner wants to make sales to make money etc.
> 
> ...


If you owna business and don't bother to find oiut what youe staff are up to you deserve to fail.


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## Bazoo (30 May 2010)

Purple said:


> If you owna business and don't bother to find oiut what youe staff are up to you deserve to fail.



Hardly enforceable in a practical sense. What do you propose - constant CCTV monitoring of employees by an eagle-eyed voyeur who will pick up on the smallest lapse in service?


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## Purple (31 May 2010)

Bazoo said:


> Hardly enforceable in a practical sense. What do you propose - constant CCTV monitoring of employees by an eagle-eyed voyeur who will pick up on the smallest lapse in service?



Did I say it had to be constant?
As an employer you should make sure you are happy that your employees are doing what you pay them to do. If you don't bother then you only have yourself to blame.


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## Leper (1 Jun 2010)

This is a great subject and contributed to by some people who constantly criticise our public service.  Somebody wanted to buy a €2K stove and could not be contacted by somebody who would sell one.  It takes somebody from another state to sell the item into this state.

I thought our private sector were gung-ho (or so some of you guys tell me on this forum).  I know one thing, it takes so much money in advertising to attract people into my 'shop' that I would be on the ball immediately to somebody coming in unannounced.


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## AgathaC (10 Aug 2010)

Just want to add my experience-my garden needs a good job done on it. I rang a guy to come and have a look, and come back to me with ideas and quotations. He was very enthusiastic etc and I had seen good reviews of work he has done in the past. Two months on, I havent heard a word. Ah well... better ring someone else...


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## shnaek (11 Aug 2010)

AgathaC said:


> Just want to add my experience-my garden needs a good job done on it. I rang a guy to come and have a look, and come back to me with ideas and quotations. He was very enthusiastic etc and I had seen good reviews of work he has done in the past. Two months on, I havent heard a word. Ah well... better ring someone else...



I hear you. My Dad has been on to two electricians about rewiring his house, and neither have gotten back to him. That was several months ago. Guess there's plenty work for sparkies out there!


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## potnoodler (16 Aug 2010)

mtk said:


> This is classic principal/agent problem in my view
> 
> The principal/the owner wants to make sales to make money etc.
> 
> ...


 
A family member is working in the retail sector and it is a particular vicious side to work in , employers have taken advantage of the recession to cut wages and axe jobs, the remaining workload has been left on the existing staff. That may be acceptable practice for the employers but obviously business will suffer as more work with less staff on less pay is hardly a productive environment.
But probably easier to justify their actions if they view their staff as lazy, cheating , thieving vermin


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## Mpsox (16 Aug 2010)

potnoodler said:


> A family member is working in the retail sector and it is a particular vicious side to work in , employers have taken advantage of the recession to cut wages and axe jobs, the remaining workload has been left on the existing staff. That may be acceptable practice for the employers but obviously business will suffer as more work with less staff on less pay is hardly a productive environment


 
I was down in my hometown over the weekend and counted at least a half a dozen shops that had closed in the main street since I was last down there 3 months ago. 2 of them were long standing (35 years in one case). Working harder for less money might be a lesser evil then the dole. Employers aren't cutting wages and axing employees for the fun of it, they're doing it to keep the business alive.


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## Complainer (16 Aug 2010)

Mpsox said:


> Employers aren't cutting wages and axing employees for the fun of it, they're doing it to keep the business alive.


In some cases (particularly in retail), this is undoubtedly true. In other cases, the old maxim of 'Don't waste a good recession' is undoubtedly being applied.


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## censuspro (16 Aug 2010)

mtk said:


> This is classic principal/agent problem in my view
> 
> The principal/the owner wants to make sales to make money etc.
> 
> ...


 
Funny you mention Estate Agents. I had exact same experience as the OP albeit I was buying a house, the principals are more or less the same. I've since bought my house and it was a private sale. Estate Agents just seemed completely indifferent to my enquiries.

The only positive is that it creates opportunities for real sales people in those areas. 

[broken link removed]


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## Latrade (19 Aug 2010)

Complainer said:


> In some cases (particularly in retail), this is undoubtedly true. In other cases, the old maxim of 'Don't waste a good recession' is undoubtedly being applied.


 
As would be old maxium of whether this is your opinion or you have some evidence of this going on.


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## mtk (19 Aug 2010)

you are so right EAs are best example


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## csirl (20 Aug 2010)

Organisation I work for recently wanted to rent a piece of equipment for an event. This is a very specialist piece of equipment that you cannot buy in Ireland. It costs approx. €1,500 to €2k plus shipping to buy this equipment from abroad, but there is a long lead in time for delivery. 

Organisation didnt know it required the equipment until 2-3 weeks before the event and so didnt have time to buy it. 

Two companies in Ireland rent this equipment. Both were asked for quotes for 1 days rental. Both companies quoted c.€4k. When it was pointed out to both that the price is more than the cost of buying the equipment, both gave the "dont care - thats our price, take it or leave it" line. They knew that the orgnanisation required this equipment and in my opinion decided to take advantage. 

Needless to say, the organisation will never deal with either company again and has ordered its own equipment for future events.

Interestingly, a third company who also rent this equipment recently went into liquidation due to severe decline in customers availing of their services.


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## Firefly (20 Aug 2010)

csirl said:


> Organisation I work for recently wanted to rent a piece of equipment for an event. This is a very specialist piece of equipment that you cannot buy in Ireland. It costs approx. €1,500 to €2k plus shipping to buy this equipment from abroad, but there is a long lead in time for delivery.
> 
> Organisation didnt know it required the equipment until 2-3 weeks before the event and so didnt have time to buy it.
> 
> ...


 
Isn't this just pure supply-and-demand though? Both companies probably figured your org was going to buy the equipment anyway and treated this as a one-time-only transaction. Knowing that you couldn't get the equipment yourself given your timeline they each tried to extract the most you are willing to pay. One of them got the business the other didn't. Granted, neither company (for whatever reason) were interested in building a relationship with your org for repeat business (of any kind), but again that's their perogative.


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## csirl (20 Aug 2010)

Firefly said:


> Isn't this just pure supply-and-demand though? Both companies probably figured your org was going to buy the equipment anyway and treated this as a one-time-only transaction. Knowing that you couldn't get the equipment yourself given your timeline they each tried to extract the most you are willing to pay. One of them got the business the other didn't. Granted, neither company (for whatever reason) were interested in building a relationship with your org for repeat business (of any kind), but again that's their perogative.


 
I'm not sure, if the price was reasonable, organisation would have rented for all events - there was no original intention to buy. There was also a lot of potential repeat business for other more routine pieces of equipment that are readily available, however, organisation has decided to rent these elsewhere as a result of this experience. And were not talking insignificant sums of money. Most years would be several thousand worth of rental business with once every 4-5 years, when big events happen, the potential for 10,000s worth of business.


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## Firefly (20 Aug 2010)

Sounds like a bad call from the 2 businesses so (presuming they were aware of the potential for repeat business).


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## tiger (20 Aug 2010)

Firefly said:


> Sounds like a bad call from the 2 businesses so (presuming they were aware of the potential for repeat business).


 or bad negotiation by the customer if they didn't make them aware.


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## AgathaC (21 Aug 2010)

Going back to the OP and indeed some of the posts here including my own, I wish that people would just be upfront and say 'I dont want/ need the business'.. recession or no recession..


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## thesimpsons (22 Aug 2010)

I've been trying to buy a lawn mower for last few weeks.  Loads of shops are only interested in selling me what they have already in the shop which was usually a basic model from each manufacturer whereas I wanted the next step up one (larger and more expensive model).  Not a single one of them would order it in for me even though I offered to pay in full in advance.   A shop in Belfast were nearly falling through the phone to help me out though - definitely there are shops and businesses out there that find its too much work for them to do a bit of real work.   I'm also still waiting for 2 other businesses to ring me back with quotes for work despite repeated requests.  If they not interested in quoting, find, tell me but why pretend all-interest only to ignore the customer.


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## mtk (22 Aug 2010)

AgathaC said:


> Going back to the OP and indeed some of the posts here including my own, I wish that people would just be upfront and say 'I dont want/ need the business'.. recession or no recession..


 
I think thats a very interesting comment
I think if business did that then the customer would probably tell their friends OR put it on forum like this or call Joe Duffy! So from a businesses point of view not such a good idea.
I know at a corporate level for deals involving millions if we dont want the business because we dont think it will be profitable at "market rates" we prefer to be uncompetitive pricewise than say we dont quote because the corporate customer  might bring us other busienss we might want .


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## WaterWater (22 Aug 2010)

I was out in Power City last week with my son who was purchasing a fairly expensive television set. (by my standards anyhow).
We asked the sales person could he do anything on the price for us. It was already cheaper than other outlets. We were delighted when he knocked a further €100 off the price.
I will certainly be pleased to give them my business in the future.

I remember purchasing a kitchen full of white goods from an electrical outlet in Dun Laoghaire some 12 years ago when we purchased our present house. I asked the shop owner could he arrange or recommend someone who could plumb our washing machine and dishwasher for us. He didn't even entertain our request or offer any help or advice or recommendation to us.
We have had to replace all of the white goods over the last year or so. I didn't even consider offering this guy my repeat business because of his attitude and tone the first time around.


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## AgathaC (22 Aug 2010)

mtk said:


> I think thats a very interesting comment
> I think if business did that then the customer would probably tell their friends OR put it on forum like this or call Joe Duffy! So from a businesses point of view not such a good idea.


Yes, of course, nobody will say upfront' we dont want the business' but by pretending interest (in the case of the OP and other posts here including my own) and then letting the customer down, it is very likely that the disappointed customer will spread the word anyway...


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