# Help - Will I just let my business go.



## Bus Woman (13 Jul 2010)

Hi everyone, I'm at the end of my tether literally and dont feel I can continue with keeping my business open.  I have my own business and I employ 19 people in the retail sector (part-time and full time).  My Problem is the following:-

My main concern has been to keep everyone employed as best I can which I have done and the staff are lovely people with families to feed which is my main concern as their employer.
I have agreements going with Revenue for money owed and the county Council for rates and I am managing to keep to these agreements and am doing my best to keep all the balls in the air.
My problem is this, I simply cannot afford to keep my accounts up to date although of course I want to, I have explained this to the CRO but they dont want to know and I appreciate its the law completely.  Someone rang today from Revenue and said they noticed I was in 'disolved status' and what was I going to do, I explained that I've been ringing around trying to get an accountant to do an agreement with me to do my books but I cant get anyone, obviously I would need to be audited now, although there is not much books to do as we d'ont generate a lot of paperwork and theres no VAT involved as we are not registered for it.  My dilema now is do I make all these people unemployed, simply because I cant afford to keep to the CRO rules, I've just about managed to keep the business afloat to date but I have no real money left over for the accounts, but I could pay someone monthly.  I'm sure there are other people out there like me, that just have to let go of their business because they cant afford to keep the paperwork up to date.  Today I have no fight left in me, I'm sick of fighting the red tape and feel theres no one to talk to or to turn to for help, I dont think anyone can really offer any advice as I don't think theres much that can be done.  Thank you.


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## papervalue (13 Jul 2010)

From Filing point of view

*TAX OFFICE*
Any paye/prsi Returns outstanding
Any Corporation Tax returns outstanding
What is you present liablity to Revenue

*COMPANY OFFICE*
What is accounting year end and what year end were last accounts prepared to
What is next annual return date
What is dissolved date on company office website.

I would guess their around 2 years plus due.

*BUSINESS*
how much are current trade creditors
how much are current trade debtors
Much stock on hand
Much cash in bank
any loans/overdrafts

*STAFF*
Do a list of employees and time with you and calulate Statutory redundancy amounts(do cost/benefit analysis on each stff member)
Do you need all the 19 staff?
Can some full time be put on 3 day week and get social for other 3

Can you see cuts in other areas, are you renting

Maybe do post dated cheque deal with auditor?

Who prepares/maintains your accounts now

Why are you not registered for Vat?


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## Bus Woman (13 Jul 2010)

Hi Papervalue,

Yes its accounts for 2007/2008.  Its been disolved since February 2010.  We dont owe much to Revenue 3000, which I will have paid off next month and rates will be finished next month too.  But going forward I will owe them again for this year.  I have cut back every possible hour I can with the staff, we used to have a lot more and all staff are on reduced hours.  We're not registered for VAT because we are eductional status, so although we pay it out we cant claim it back. 

I spoke to one accountant who said I was too concerend about keeping people in their jobs when I should just let it go.  I have one loan that will be finished in November.   I have a book keeper who does our wages and I dont have hardly any money in the bank, we are just holding on by our fingers hoping things will improve.  Theres no corporation tax due. I will do as you suggest and do a list of staff and what redudancy entitlements they may be due, thanks so much for the reply.  I dont think any accountant would take a post date cheque in this climate, I have spoken to lots recently and no one made that suggestion, but thank you for your reply.


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## z107 (13 Jul 2010)

The sole purpose of (most) companies is to make money, not employ people.

If you do not have accounts or books done, then you do not know if the business is profitable or not.
You need to find out if you are making money. If you are not making any money, and things aren't likely to get better then you should look at closing the company.
The first thing to do is to get an accountant to do your books. If you can't afford to do this, then lay off the least profitable of your employees and use that money to pay the accountant.


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## papervalue (13 Jul 2010)

I know a lot of Companies who owed a lot more and continue to trade. Based on the above your creditors look low.

You have one year from February 2010 to get the company restored to company register without needing court permission to do it.

If you accounts are income/expenditure and wages and no vat- should be easy enough to put together- Talk to the accountant you were with to see can he get an auditor to get you up to date( Maybe give 1k on account plus post dated) or do a fee finance and personally guarantee fee if no one will take job, someone should if straight forward

Depending on year end say its 31/12/07 due 30/09/08
                                         31/12/08 due 30/09/09
                                         31/12/09 due 30/09/10
 The above once late are incurring a daily fine in companies office and they will want payment in one go

How long has company being going for?
Do students owe you much money?

It is hard to give right answer without seeing figures
Do you rent- Can you get rent holiday/reduction/move

Where do you see business going.

Where you think business is loosing money that comapny has not enough money for Audit.

Is the company carrying losses and how are these losses created ie turnover going down, wages constant etc

Are you taking a wage yourself even?

Are you supporting company with own funds and how much have you lodged?


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## Bus Woman (13 Jul 2010)

I am lucky in that I only pay a peppercorn rent as we are a service company too.  My last accountant charged me 10,000 euro (inc vat) to do my books and he asked for half up front, I couldnt possibly go back to him as he'd want the same again.  We have not got much business at the moment because of the downturn, no other reason, we were doing fine untill early 2008.  Cash flow is my problem, I literally just pay the wages and the Revenue back and the rates and our loan but thats all I have, what comes in more or less goes back out at the moment.  Maybe I am being completely naive in hoping the economy will get better.  I could manage ok and go the way I have being going only for my disolved status.  Last year I suffered with depression due to business worries and because I had medical certs to prove this the CRO gave me a once off wavier on the penalties for my 2007 accounts, I have written to them and kept communication up with them, buts its too late now with my disolved status I fear.  I am taking a very small wage, our company accountant called it a 'Dunnes Stores Wage' as its very small, but I need to live myself and dont know how I will manage if I havent even got my tiny wages to live on.


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## papervalue (13 Jul 2010)

Bus Woman said:


> I am lucky in that I only pay a peppercorn rent as we are a service company too. My last accountant charged me 10,000 euro (inc vat) to do my books and he asked for half up front, I couldnt possibly go back to him as he'd want the same again. We have not got much business at the moment because of the downturn, no other reason, we were doing fine untill early 2008. Cash flow is my problem, I literally just pay the wages and the Revenue back and the rates and our loan but thats all I have, what comes in more or less goes back out at the moment. Maybe I am being completely naive in hoping the economy will get better. I could manage ok and go the way I have being going only for my disolved status. Last year I suffered with depression due to business worries and because I had medical certs to prove this the CRO gave me a once off wavier on the penalties for my 2007 accounts, I have written to them and kept communication up with them, buts its too late now with my disolved status I fear. I am taking a very small wage, our company accountant called it a 'Dunnes Stores Wage' as its very small, but I need to live myself and dont know how I will manage if I havent even got my tiny wages to live on.


 
That is nearly 8k plus vat- How many years did he do for that, what did he do, looks extremely high
I sure that the fee should not be much more than 2k/2500 plus vat if records in order and ring around for quotes from smaller firms
You do need some Accountant & Auditor to get you up to date and talk to.
It may be down maybe to a staff cut going forward(you know best)
The dissolved status is solved by getting accounts filed and pay 08 fine
Keep up communication with them but try to grt everything solved in next few months before you hit court restiration which would cost a lot

Have you applied to fas/employment funds to pay some of students course fees.


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## Bus Woman (13 Jul 2010)

Hi Papervalue, you are so good with the advice thank you, its very much appreciated.  What happens is, I offer an eductional service to parents and they pay me for pre-school children, Fas would'nt not be interested, I get paid straight away as we teach children.  I will ring around accountants again tomorow to see what I can get.  Our accountant did one years accounts for that (but they had to be audited as we were late then too) and it was a huge chunk of money from my small cash flow.  I hear what you are saying, there is no option but to look for an accountant, I just need to find a very cheap one and quick.  My big worry today is that when Revenue rang me they said they 'were updating their records' and she said that by having a disolved status I lose my limited protection, the worry of that is something else.  I know the previous poster said that the purpose of most companies is to make money not employ people, I do agree, but we are in a recession and there is a very human side to it, I have people who rely on me to get them through this recession and its too hard to walk away.  By nature I am a fighter but as the days go on its is getting harder.  I did toy with the idea of asking the bank for a loan, but the last loan I took out they made me pay back over 11 months which was very tough too, they would'nt agree to a longer term, despite me not owing them a penny ever.   The girl from Revenue today asked me to mail them and state that I was in the process of getting my disolved status sorted out, she said she would bring that letter to her superiors to see what they say, I'm not supposed to legally trade which such a status.  Thanks again for all the advice I will do what you say tomorrow and look around again.


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## browtal (13 Jul 2010)

Hello Bus woman, 
I sympathise completely. I was in similar position in the last recession. I closed my business, paid off creditors and got out with a few thousand pounds.  I since bitterly regret this decision. 
Getting a good accountant that will deal with the Revenue will be of enormous help.
I stopped getting accounts done and did not realise how profitable my business was until I had closed it.  I thought I was much worse off than I was because of the presssure and stress I was under.
I know of a very good accountant, a lady in Dublin, who is very good with regular accounts at very reasonable rates, also in dealing with the Revenue. The revenue dont want to see you close down, they will never get their money then.  Arangements can be made to stall payment. 
I can give you email address of the Accountant if you would like. I have never recovered from letting my business go. Wish I had somebody to talk to at the time.
Hope you make the right decision.
Good luck Browtal


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## shinners (15 Jul 2010)

The main problem you have is the CRO and getting the company status back to normal. If your bank notices the dissolved status, they can freeze your bank account until it is all sorted.  You need to get an auditor an board fast to do to do the work & file the returns before your 1 year deadline is up, after that the cost of restoration is extremely high.

I have dealt with a number of cases like yours in the last two years in my job. I am not the practioner, but an employed accountant. practitioners worst nightmare is doing the work, paying staff & then not getting paid for work, it has happened in my job, and i feel like a busy fool half the time. 


 the way practices view it there are 3 types of clients:
1. those who dont want to pay no matter what
2. those who want to pay but can't pay right now but will in future
3. those who want to pay & will pay now

there is a list of registered auditors on the CRO website, u should google it and approach a few for quotes.

if you can convince an auditor that u are serious about your business, that it has a future and you intend to pay them they will agree to act for you. you could discuss setting up a direct debit agreement for the fees e.g. pay a 10% deposit when work commences & a further 10 % each month for next 9 months.


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## shinners (15 Jul 2010)

mean to say, your auditor, should u appoint one sould be in a position to advise you/assist you with preparing budgets going forward & making any decisions necessary to ensure your company is profitable & solvent into the future.


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## Paddy199 (16 Jul 2010)

This is very sad. Please find an accountant that will offer a free 1 or 2 hour consultation service. If you can't find one, PM me.


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