# Returning in to Ireland with family in 2021



## NotPoodle (7 Jan 2021)

Hi,

We're planning on returning to Ireland, from the UK, at some point in 2021 (timeline is now more difficult with COVID resurgence). We had reached the stage of needing to make a decision on purchasing here, or moving back to Ireland - which was always on the agenda at some point. We have already gone some way in securing jobs so I'm adding in Irish salaries also as that is where the advice is being sought.

Initially we will be renting in Ireland, to show Irish savings ability and for my spouses probation period - but then would like to try purchase a property as soon as we can.

Age: *37*
Spouse’s/Partner's age: *34*

Annual gross income from employment or profession: *UK: £100k (bonus incl.) / Ireland: ~€100k (bonus incl.)*
Annual gross income of spouse: *UK: None currently / Ireland: €45k*

Monthly take-home pay: *£4,500 *(after pension contrib)

Type of employment: *Me: Private / Wife: Public*

In general are you:
(a) spending more than you earn, or
(b) saving?:* Saving, but only £700p/m currently, since my spouse finished work*

Rough estimate of value of home: *N/A*
Amount outstanding on your mortgage: *We pay £2,100 in rent in UK, would expect this to be a little less in Ireland but difficult to judge rental market currently*
What interest rate are you paying? *N/A*

Other borrowings – car loans/personal loans etc: *None*

Do you pay off your full credit card balance each month?: *Yes*
If not, what is the balance on your credit card?: *Yes*

Savings and investments:


*UK: £104k* mostly now liquid as I sold majority of positive investments here in December to avail of greater CGT limit. We had expected to be tax residents in Ireland for 2021, but not certain now on move timeline. We also bought two newish cars here in the past 18 months (one was needed for here, other intended for use when we move back), so this has put a dent in savings.
Savings in *Ireland: €102k*

Do you have a pension scheme? *Yes (Personal contribution: + employer currently = 20%). Value of £108k currently.*

Do you own any investment or other property?: *No*

Ages of children: *1 & 3. No childcare currently, but we will need this in Ireland.*

Life insurance: *Yes 4X 


What specific question do you have or what issues are of concern to you?*


Original plan was to use the Euro savings towards a house deposit and leave Sterling savings in the UK to see if there is any recovery in pound strength, however reading other threads on this has made me rethink. There's also no tax benefit to leaving in UK investments as I'll be an Irish tax resident. Would it be better to eliminate the FX risk by converting to Euro - perhaps over a few months? And in doing this use this to have a greater house deposit?
We had hoped to buy in the €450-550k range, but I've been getting some quite strange results from online mortgage calculators, I believe to be down to the childcare costs that we will have (estimated at €2k per month) so I think this may already provide my answer for question 1, presumably it makes more sense to put up a greater deposit with what we have, rather than renting for longer.
Is there anything I should start thinking of doing for my children's future education costs, or is this something to address further down the line when the home purchase is out of the way?
Any suggestions on what I should do with UK pension, leave and accept the FX risk, or look to move?
Is there anything else I should be doing at this stage of my life? e.g. investing more in pension, higher life insurance coverage?


----------



## NoRegretsCoyote (7 Jan 2021)

NotPoodle said:


> Original plan was to use the Euro savings towards a house deposit and leave Sterling savings in the UK to see if there is any recovery in pound strength, however reading other threads on this has made me rethink. There's also no tax benefit to leaving in UK investments as I'll be an Irish tax resident. Would it be better to eliminate the FX risk by converting to Euro - perhaps over a few months? And in doing this use this to have a greater house deposit?



If you are living and working in euros for good then your savings should be in euros. Look for the best rate on the transfer, you will never second-guess currency markets.



NotPoodle said:


> We had hoped to buy in the €450-550k range, but I've been getting some quite strange results from online mortgage calculators, I believe to be down to the childcare costs that we will have (estimated at €2k per month) so I think this may already provide my answer for question 1, presumably it makes more sense to put up a greater deposit with what we have, rather than renting for longer.



A conversation with a mortgage broker would really help you I think.


----------



## DublinHead54 (7 Jan 2021)

@NotPoodle welcome. Where is your job going to be based (assuming at some point you will return to an office) and for example if it is Dublin do you have an idea of where you want to live, e.g. commuter town, or in Dublin. I recently enough returned to Dublin with a young family and bought a house, so can give some further details on rent, childcare costs in the Dublin area.


----------



## NotPoodle (7 Jan 2021)

Thanks for the response NoRegretsCoyote.

I think reading on here has made clear that your suggestion on FX is something I should definitely do - in my mind this would mean also moving my UK pension to an Irish provider, would that be something you also recommend?


----------



## NotPoodle (7 Jan 2021)

Dublinbay12 said:


> @NotPoodle welcome. Where is your job going to be based (assuming at some point you will return to an office) and for example if it is Dublin do you have an idea of where you want to live, e.g. commuter town, or in Dublin. I recently enough returned to Dublin with a young family and bought a house, so can give some further details on rent, childcare costs in the Dublin area.



Thanks Dublinbay12, my choice would have been Dublin, but I was overruled on that front!


----------



## presidenttttt (2 Feb 2021)

I had savings tied up in GBP too, it has only got worse since brexit when one might have expected a steady improvement. There is an opportunity cost to leaving funds sit there waiting waiting for forex movement; interest on debt that could be paid off, or investment in something you know with much greater certainty should grow. There are exemptions for importing your car- which you likely know already.

You may find after some research that rent/child care costs are lower than the UK, especially SE of the UK. If you are not going to be in Dublin this is absolutely true in my experience. Do you need to include child care in mortgage application discussions, it sounds like it is not a current expense, and you could have family assisting for all they know?


----------



## NotPoodle (9 Feb 2021)

presidenttttt said:


> I had savings tied up in GBP too, it has only got worse since brexit when one might have expected a steady improvement. There is an opportunity cost to leaving funds sit there waiting waiting for forex movement; interest on debt that could be paid off, or investment in something you know with much greater certainty should grow. There are exemptions for importing your car- which you likely know already.
> 
> You may find after some research that rent/child care costs are lower than the UK, especially SE of the UK. If you are not going to be in Dublin this is absolutely true in my experience. Do you need to include child care in mortgage application discussions, it sounds like it is not a current expense, and you could have family assisting for all they know?


Much appreciate the input. 

Very good points on savings tied up in GBP - based on the advice in the thread so far I'll be looking to convert this to Euro once our move is confirmed.

We don't have childcare costs in the UK currently. My wife will be starting a new role and on probation, so by the time we come to mortgage application the childcare costs will be reality.


----------



## NoRegretsCoyote (9 Feb 2021)

NotPoodle said:


> I think reading on here has made clear that your suggestion on FX is something I should definitely do - in my mind this would mean also moving my UK pension to an Irish provider, would that be something you also recommend?



I don't know much about this. There may be tax implications so worth taking very specific advice.


----------



## NotPoodle (9 Feb 2021)

NoRegretsCoyote said:


> I don't know much about this. There may be tax implications so worth taking very specific advice.


Understood, I'll get this checked. I'll report back the advice I get here in case useful to someone in a similar position in future (only to be used as a datapoint though as everyones circumstances will be varied.)


----------



## mimes (11 Feb 2021)

* 


What specific question do you have or what issues are of concern to you?*


Original plan was to use the Euro savings towards a house deposit and leave Sterling savings in the UK to see if there is any recovery in pound strength, however reading other threads on this has made me rethink. There's also no tax benefit to leaving in UK investments as I'll be an Irish tax resident. Would it be better to eliminate the FX risk by converting to Euro - perhaps over a few months? And in doing this use this to have a greater house deposit?
Comment: its hard to know on the exchange rate. You can wait and wait but I'd say if you need the money in euros then convert. Otherwise, set a threshold rate and if it gets to it or close just transfer the lot and don't look back.

We had hoped to buy in the €450-550k range, but I've been getting some quite strange results from online mortgage calculators, I believe to be down to the childcare costs that we will have (estimated at €2k per month) so I think this may already provide my answer for question 1, presumably it makes more sense to put up a greater deposit with what we have, rather than renting for longer.
Comment: for the 3 year old you can avail of ECCE here. This is free creche from 9 until 12 daily. I would say go this route and then get a childminder. You can save significantly going this route and most young parents i know do this with 2 children. In addition to this, i would think this will help with declarred outgoings and in turn increase your mortgage.

Is there anything I should start thinking of doing for my children's future education costs, or is this something to address further down the line when the home purchase is out of the way?
For now, I would look up ECCE to assist with your mortgage approval amount. At 1 and 3 my main concern would be buying a property with good schools in the local area. If they are fee paying you can worry about that later.

Any suggestions on what I should do with UK pension, leave and accept the FX risk, or look to move?
I transferred mine some years back. I did simply on the basis of a hassle free approach in the future. Its a personal choice i would think.

Is there anything else I should be doing at this stage of my life? e.g. investing more in pension, higher life insurance coverage?
We can all do with paying more in the above mentioned but for now i would focus on getting the right property. The rest follows. 

Best of luck 
[/QUOTE]


----------



## Peanuts20 (12 Feb 2021)

I moved back 20 years ago. Some advice

Be patient, it takes time to settle back in
Take some UK tax advice. For example, I was able to get a tax rebate from the UK for unused portions of my tax credits for the year in question
Change your driving licence quickly. Car insurance can be an issue for some returning. 
Is home working/blended working an option.? That might reduce the need to live in Dublin or a big city. For example you'll get much better value for money housewise in Naas then Dublin and you are in City West in 20 mins
Can you move or live closer to family. It does make life easier, especially when the little un's start school


----------



## NotPoodle (12 Feb 2021)

Thanks @mimes & @Peanuts20 - much appreciate hearing from two people that have made a similar move and what you've both done/suggest.
I'll take a proper look at ECCE, it's been on my list to do.
W.r.t tax advice, I'm planning on engaging with an advisor so that's ticked off at least.
Luckily I've also (rightly or wrongly) retained an Irish driving license. Believe insurance will still be a jump in costs for a few years, but I'm expecting that from reading elsewhere on the topic.

Thanks again both!


----------



## NotPoodle (29 Mar 2022)

I have seen a few people come back to update these and found it very interesting. No questions as-such currently and still a few actions I need to take based on previous advice but we made our move back from the UK to Ireland and readjusting to life here.

Comments on anything obvious we should be doing are more than welcome.

Age: *38*
Spouse’s/Partner's age: *35*

Annual gross income from employment or profession: *€116k (bonus incl.)*
Annual gross income of spouse: *€40k *(€50k salary, but with one day parental leave)

Monthly take-home pay: *€6,500* (after pension contrib)

Type of employment: Me: Private / Wife: Public

In general are you:
(a) spending more than you earn, or
(b) saving?: *Saving*

Rough estimate of value of home: *€500,000*
Amount outstanding on your mortgage: *€340,000*
What interest rate are you paying? *2.25% fixed for 5 years. Overpaying 10%*

Other borrowings – car loans/personal loans etc: *None*

Do you pay off your full credit card balance each month?: *Yes*
If not, what is the balance on your credit card?: *Yes*

Savings and investments:


UK: *£25k - plan to sell and use some to overpay mortgage*
Savings in Ireland: *€5-10k, but some already earmarked for house*

Do you have a pension scheme? Yes -  *UK pension value of £120k / Ireland pension value of €25k (employer and employee contribs = 30%)
Spouse is public sector and has a small AVC for earnings in higher tax band*

Do you own any investment or other property?: *No*

Ages of children: *2 & 4. Childcare costs = €1,750 a month*

Life insurance: *Yes 8X for me
Mortgage protection*


----------

