# Probate problem if a will extends to more than one page



## Gulliver (4 Feb 2012)

It appears that the Probate Office is applying more rigid rules where a will extends to more than one page, and is not bound.  If one applies for Probate for a two-page will or longer, the Probate Office now requires an affadavid signed by one or more of the original witnesses to the will.  With delays already happening in the Probate Office, this situation further compounds the delays, as I have recently discovered as an executor of a will written on 3 pages.
A will is normally signed at the end only, and is often not bound.  In such cases, there is a risk that one or more of the early pages might be substituted with alternate text to give an entirely different outcome to the will.
Binding a will with staples or pins is regarded as mutilation of the will and will give rise to other problems.  I am unclear as to what form of binding is accepted.  
I am also unsure as to what is achieved by the affadavid, since the witnesses of a will do not normally read the detailed contents of the will, and therefore could not be sure that the content of the individual pages presented for probate is the same as it was at the date on which they witnessed it.  I wonder what happens if the original witnesses had died or could not be contacted?
Personally, I have re-typed the text of my own will in a smaller font, to ensure that is fits on a single page, signed it, dated it, and had it witnessed.  If necessary, the will can be double sided, or printed on a larger sheet.  
I would advise others to re-examine their own wills.


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## sunnydonkey (5 Feb 2012)

In other jurististions it is normal practice for all parties to initial all pages of a legal document as well as signing at the end.


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## staff (6 Feb 2012)

I had drafted wills over the years and usually on the last page of the will this paragraph is included where it actually notes the number of pages used so it is clear.

*SIGNED PUBLISHED AND DECLARED* by the above named testator as and for his last will and testament in the presence of us both present at the same time who at his request and in his presence and in the presence of each other have hereunto subscribed our names as witnesses this will having been printed on the *front side only of the foregoing 3 pages of A4 paper*.


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## Gulliver (6 Feb 2012)

Staff
This form of signature does not satisfy the recent requirement - it only certifies the number of pages.  It does not in any way prevent substitution of pages.  You may have to reconsider the wills you have drafted with this form of words.

As sunnydonkey has said, it is normal practice in the UK and US to sign or at least initial all pages.  This is not normal practice in Ireland until now.  But it seems that a change in practice is going to be forced now, quite correctly, by the Probate office.  Just a pity that I had to find out the hard way!!


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## Vanilla (6 Feb 2012)

That's correct- in practice that attestation clause together with a staple will suffice ( I note what you say about mutilation, Gulliver, but in practice a single staple is accepted in the probate registries) or that attestation clause together with an affidavit of attesting witness.


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## Gulliver (6 Feb 2012)

staff, Vanilla
The will in question was prepared by a solicitor, contained a clause almost identical to the attestation clause shown by staff above, was properly signed and witnessed, but was not stapled.  My understanding is that this was normal practice up to now.

  It was sent back by the Probate office who required a new affadavid from the witnesses.  According to my solicitor, this was the first time he encountered such a procedure.


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## Vanilla (6 Feb 2012)

Yes, that's been my experience too. The probate office now requires the affidavit of attesting witness in those circumstances whereas previously they didnt- however they are now accepting stapled wills as an alternative, though obviously this couldn't be done after the event!


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## Gulliver (8 Feb 2012)

Grant of probate arrived today - after 17 weeks in Probate office (about double the normal time)


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