# Vantage - Leopardstown: post from 26-01-2006, 07:57 AM



## larry1

Just came from the launch of these apartments. Arrived at 5.15am, approx 60 people already there. All apartments sold from 1st phase by 7.30am. Luckily got one of the last three.. Pure madness! About 100 still outside when I was leaving..where does it end?


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## WarrenBuffet

*Re: Vantage - Leopardstown*

5.15am!! Is that not pm?


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## larry1

*Re: Vantage - Leopardstown*

Nope 5.15AM!!! Punters day from 12 noon yesterday afternoon. 65 people camped out on Baggot st overnight.. stop the madness!


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## larry1

*Re: Vantage - Leopardstown*

sorry typo.. " punters there from 12 noon "


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## crassus

*Re: Vantage - Leopardstown*

Well done Larry! And you thought that you would be early! 

Was it one apartment per punter? So around 60 odd released in phase 1? I see there is on site concierge (where would you be without one), how much did they estimate year 1 service charges to be?


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## hmmm

*Re: Vantage - Leopardstown*

Any idea how many of those buying were for investment purposes?


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## beattie

*Re: Vantage - Leopardstown*

Have they indicated what the expected rent for say, a 2 bed will be. I see on daft that there is a good number of apartments to let in the Beacon Court development since the Nov/Dec period and they seem to be there on a weekly basis


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## Cantona7

*Re: Vantage - Leopardstown*

this area will be crawling in to let signs over next 5 years. there are 8,000 units scheduled for construction between stillorgan sandyford and dundrum in the latest planning forecasts subj to pp obv.. beacon court was almost 100% investment as you can see from daft.. as are the maj of purchases in the past 12mths uo here.i work in the estate and its gonna be a building site for the next 10 years!!


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## desparatehh

*Re: Vantage - Leopardstown*

Hi, 
is next queue going to be for the Forum (Sandyford)?

desparate house hunter


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## Friday

*Re: Vantage - Leopardstown*

I an stunned at this report...they way things re going this is going to end in tears....the fundamentals hace changed and it is now an irrational market (certainly by the Leopardstown experience).

Ask yourself why a developer would sell 100 apartments two years in advance. Does he have concerns about the future...looks like it to me!


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## thewatcher

*Re: Vantage - Leopardstown*

The writing has been on the wall for a long time !I presume they have only paid booking deposits though.


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## larry1

*Re: Vantage - Leopardstown*

Pulled the plug on this, getting my deposit back. Did a lot of research over the past few days and there are plenty of less risky investments with higher returns out there. €35k stamp was the killer. Thanks for all the feedback


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## Tino

*Re: Vantage - Leopardstown*

Larry - up there myself the other morning - bit mad alright. got my hands on an apartment!! As an owner-occupier it works out ok. Methinks i have to live somewhere and this is as good as any. They are going to be 5% dearer next time round. Surely by the time they are built they will be up circa 20% - Leopardstown is Leopardstown - On the luas is on the luas....convince me i'm mad mad mad to go ahread with it


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## crassus

*Re: Vantage - Leopardstown*

Tino, it's an excellent location. As well as that, since they won't be ready until 2 years from now the price you have agreed to pay may well be less than the price you'd have to pay if you waited 2 years and bought an apartment that is ready to move into. 

One thing I raised before is the service charge. Since I believe that this development will have a 24 hour concierge service, you have to be sure that you are happy to pay the inflated annual service charge that will apply. What's the estimate of this for the first year? 24 concierge is expensive when you add it to the usual service charge. It's 2 maybe 3 salaries to pay - year in year out.


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## Tino

*Re: Vantage - Leopardstown*

Will check out service costs. Also supply & demand - have people been viewing in this area - are there thousands of apartments yet to go up?


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## crassus

*Re: Vantage - Leopardstown*

A lot of developers have had Dun Laoghaire Rathdown Co Co approve their applications for relatively high rise apartment developments in Sandyford Industrial Estate recently. Many of these approvals are then appealed to an Bord Pleanala by local residents. Check out the DLR co co offices/myhome.ie  for details of what's coming down the line in the area.


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## Rolaga

*Re: Vantage - Leopardstown*

I am one of the unlucky ones who purchased at Vantage at 2006 prices. Apparently they will be completed early in 2009. Is there anyone else out there in my situation? Now my mortgage approval has lapsed and I'm sure no bank will give me a mortgage.


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## paddyd

*Re: Vantage - Leopardstown*



Rolaga said:


> Now my mortgage approval has lapsed and I'm sure no bank will give me a mortgage.



its not that banks have stopped lending, its that they've tightened the TnC's.

- how do the figures currently look?

- what is the place currently worth V what you paid nearly 3 years ago?
- what % of that will be your deposit?
- do you have any existing borrowings?
- good credit history?
- secure employment?


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## Steve D

*Re: Vantage - Leopardstown*

I bet that there are not many people who are as happy as Larry in this case! Larry pulled out in post 15.


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## IsleOfMan

*Re: Vantage - Leopardstown*



larry1 said:


> Just came from the launch of these apartments. Arrived at 5.15am, approx 60 people already there. All apartments sold from 1st phase by 7.30am. Luckily got one of the last three.. Pure madness! About 100 still outside when I was leaving..where does it end?


 
My God, how things have changed!

_*"Where does it end".....*_now we know.


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## Ask1

*Re: Vantage - Leopardstown*

So am I, purchased in 2006 and notified recently that going to close soon. I'm in the same position re the banks, valuation too low compared to required borrowings.  Has anyone received any more information or completed?


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## anthony1975

*Re: Vantage - Leopardstown*

Hey Rologa and Ask1. I am in the same situation having paid the 30K in 2006 and see no chance of being able to get a mortgage to close in the next few months. It does say in the contract that the apartments will be ready at the latest 3 years from date of signing contract. I don't think this holds much water however. I know of three other people in the same situation, all wanting to get out of the contract and walk away even if it means loosing the 30K. I know Fleming and Elliots have issued summons to a large number of people who like us would have paid a deposit a number of years ago and are now looking to get out of the contracts. I've also noticed how the papers are not covering these stories. I think this has alot to do with the fact that the papers rely on these builders for substantial advertising revenue (i the pat anyway). 

Any information on this developement would be very welcome. I just don't know what is going to happen when they start contacting me to complete?


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## rogerg

*Re: Vantage - Leopardstown*

Rolaga ust sent you a PM


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## rogerg

*Re: Vantage - Leopardstown*

Ask1 and anthony iv also sent you guys a pm


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## LeoRock

*Re: Vantage - Leopardstown*

Hi, I am in the same position as you. Have you any insights into options available?
Appreciate any advice.


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## maudlin

*Re: Vantage - Leopardstown*

Hi

I am in the same position also - First time buyer - thought we'd never be able to afford a property with prices the way they were going and now we cant get a mortgage for the amount we need as the property has been valued lower. 

any advice/insight/info would be so much appreciated Rolaga/Ask1/anyone else!

thanks!!!


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## southside

*Re: Vantage - Leopardstown*

Rolaga, Ask and Anthony, I am in the same situation.  I simply cannot close on this deal.  I just dont have the cash and the chances of me getting a mortgage is nil.   I hear the site is a mess but the building itself is nearing completion.  Have any of you been up there.  How do we communicate via PM?  Are PMs secure?


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## ajb1

*Re: Vantage - Leopardstown*

Has anyone hit the 36 month time period that included in the contract? I would have thought that these are coming due at this point and it doesn't look like the development is ready.

I'm also in a similar situation and am wondering what others are doing at the moment.


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## Hopeful1

*Re: Vantage - Leopardstown*

Hi, I am also one of the unlucky ones who purchased in 2006. I have received a letter to say that the phase is nearing completion and that I should ensure my finance is in place. However closing date is less than 3 weeks away and I have not been asked to do a snag yet. I am eligible for the mortgage but my circumstances have changed in 3 years. I no longer live in Dublin and definitely do not want to take on this apartment. Does anyone know how close vantage central is to completion? Is anyone else in this situation? If the snag is not completed within the next 3 weeks will there be a chance of getting the deposit back?? Any advice or information would be greatly appreciated.


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## peter09

*Re: Vantage - Leopardstown*



southside said:


> Rolaga, Ask and Anthony, I am in the same situation. I simply cannot close on this deal. I just dont have the cash and the chances of me getting a mortgage is nil. I hear the site is a mess but the building itself is nearing completion. Have any of you been up there. How do we communicate via PM? Are PMs secure?


 
no idea what is happening with vantage central at present, and has anyone closed the deal, please post some information


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## Lord Snooty

*Re: Vantage - Leopardstown*



Hopeful1 said:


> Hi, I am also one of the unlucky ones who purchased in 2006. I have received a letter to say that the phase is nearing completion and that I should ensure my finance is in place. However closing date is less than 3 weeks away and I have not been asked to do a snag yet. I am eligible for the mortgage but my circumstances have changed in 3 years. I no longer live in Dublin and definitely do not want to take on this apartment. Does anyone know how close vantage central is to completion? Is anyone else in this situation? If the snag is not completed within the next 3 weeks will there be a chance of getting the deposit back?? Any advice or information would be greatly appreciated.


Hopeful, since your circumstances have changed, did you let them know? How long ago did you pay your deposit and when did your circumstances change? Either way, get down to your solicitor and maybe, just maybe you could plead the undue delay on this. But as far as I know the developers are digging their heels in on this as they in turn  are being squeezed by the banks.
good luck anyway.The whole property frenzy in this country was bonkers and the repercussions are now being felt. It is shameful what has gone on here.


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## SteveW9

*Re: Vantage - Leopardstown*

to be honest Im sure if the prices had gone up in the meantime you wouldnt be moaning


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## brigade

*Re: Vantage - Leopardstown*

SteveW9, do you have anything constructive to add or do you just comment on other peoples situation? Are you connected to a property developer?


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## SteveW9

*Re: Vantage - Leopardstown*

No I'm just sick of people moaning about this. 
The fact is you people bought because you thought its value would go up ....it didnt now deal with it.


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## DUNDEE

*Re: Vantage - Leopardstown*

I've also got a deposit on vantage and my 36 months are up on the 18th of may
Any


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## DUNDEE

*Re: Vantage - Leopardstown*

Any ideas would be a great help...thanks


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## larry1

*Re: Vantage - Leopardstown*

Just reading this again 3 & half years since I posted it. I drove by Vantage this evening and thought to myself.. thanks be to God I pulled out. My heart goes out to all those people who queued with me in the room at 5am that morning. One guy beside me bought 3.. Crazy times. I will show this to my kids in a few years time.


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## pat09

*Re: Vantage - Leopardstown*

Just reading previous mails - i also bought in Vantage 3.5 years ago.  Has anyone closed on these contracts?  I have received a letter to say they are ready for snagging but on a site visit at the weekend they do not look as if they are ready and they all seem to be empty including Phase 1 - my apartment is in the feature building.

i would be very interested to see how other people that have contracts signed got on?

Thanks


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## pat09

*Re: Vantage - Leopardstown*

This builder is still trading and is nearing completion - hence the letter that its ready for snagging!! therein lies my problem - in this market, i will not be able to sell my own property and even if i do not at a price that i'll be able to afford the new apartment.  And there's not a hope i'll get a mortgage to cover it.


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## pdpd

pat09 - have you looked into whether or not they missed their deadline to complete the apt? and if so, were there any other factors that would allow them to delay the delivery.


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## pat09

Hi pdpd,

yes, i signed in May 06 so they were due to complete 36 months from then, which is 3.5 months over deadline.  They say its ready for snagging but last friday there still was scaffolding round the entrance etc.  I have sought advice from my Solicitor/Barrister.


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## sundown

hi all, i think no one should be bullied into closing this now void contract. i would like to meet  other purchasers to discuss issues relating to vantage apartments.


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## pat09

Sundown

i've sent you a PM


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## murphaph

How is it reneging on a contract when the contract stipulates that the apartment should have been delivered 3.5 months ago but it's still under construction today? The developer has failed in their end and thus broken the contract (barring get out clauses which may also be contained therein).


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## southside

moreover, purchasers had a realisitic expectation that the build would be complete in c. 18 months but the developer apparently got held up on an entirely separate development so did nothing on site for c. 2 years.  The final completion date is a final protection for purchasers, not a target date.  If the properties in question had been completed in a professional and workmanlike manner a couple of years ago, there wouldnt be a word about all this.  Developer has no one to blame but themselves.


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## wantstoknow

southside said:


> moreover, purchasers had a realisitic expectation that the build would be complete in c. 18 months but the developer apparently got held up on an entirely separate development so did nothing on site for c. 2 years.  The final completion date is a final protection for purchasers, not a target date.  If the properties in question had been completed in a professional and workmanlike manner a couple of years ago, there wouldnt be a word about all this.  Developer has no one to blame but themselves.



For many reasons, this is the most interesting thing I have read in weeks.  Can it be substantiated by anyone?  Did they really disappear....hmmm good faith and implied terms and all that...


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## Fabio

I see all your logs, I am in the same position as you. I signed a contract in may 2006 for the purchase of an apartment in 
the Vantage development. I paid a deposit of €30k. my circumstances have changed completely in the past 3 years and the
mortgage company will not provide finance. I am presently being pressurised to snag the apartment. there is still scaffolding
up around the outside of the building and the rest of the site is a building site.
I would be interested in meeting everyone involved and others in a similar situation 
if you are not interested in a meeting please contact me any way so we can share experience and advice.


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## wantstoknow

Fabio said:


> I see all your logs, I am in the same position as you. I signed a contract in may 2006 for the purchase of an apartment in
> the Vantage development. I paid a deposit of €30k. my circumstances have changed completely in the past 3 years and the
> mortgage company will not provide finance. I am presently being pressurised to snag the apartment. there is still scaffolding
> up around the outside of the building and the rest of the site is a building site.
> I would be interested in meeting everyone involved and others in a similar situation
> if you are not interested in a meeting please contact me any way so we can share experience and advice.



Difficulty is the contracts all have a time extension clause built in.  Equally, I think that untimely completion only entitles one to sue for damages, not to walk away.


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## Firefly

Go down to the site and take photos - these should be date stamped. May be useful when arguing that the complex was not completed in time


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## southside

you will though agree that wantstoknow has the right to fair protection under the law?  Builder for example was also bound by an ogligation to complete the building in a professional and workmanlike manner. It is the builder's failure to do so that is the route cause of this entire situation.  We should not loose sight of that fact.  The laragan case was interesting in that it highlighted some of the protections that consumers have under the law that may enhance or mitigate the terms included in a specific contract.


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## wantstoknow

southside said:


> you will though agree that wantstoknow has the right to fair protection under the law?  Builder for example was also bound by an ogligation to complete the building in a professional and workmanlike manner. It is the builder's failure to do so that is the route cause of this entire situation.  We should not loose sight of that fact.  The laragan case was interesting in that it highlighted some of the protections that consumers have under the law that may enhance or mitigate the terms included in a specific contract.



I think (from what I'm told) I have to put up with it and if it is a breach of contract, I sue them.  Different types of breach entitle to walk away, not the timing of completion from what i'm being told.


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## pat09

you can sue them for breach of contract - they say time was not of the essence (they gave themselves 36 months to complete) their time is up 3/4 months ago.  You make "time of the essence" by issuing a completion notice on them.  The place is still a building site - there is still scaffolding up on the feature building (vantage central), the front door is blocked and has barriers/fencing around it.  They wrote to me to say it was ready for snagging - how could it be when there is not even an entrance door??? I'm sure Health & Safety would have a lot to say about that!!


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## nwarren

hey

i am in the same position as many of you in relation to Vantage Central. i was just wondering do you know where the builder got delayed before they started vantage and any idea on when they started the build???


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## mercman

I was just checking this development. The developer is Lalco Limited, who are in as much trouble as one could possibly imagine. I do knoiw a bit about these developers but am unable to place anything in writing as I coulkd be had for libel. However I will say that any perspective purchaser better get together with others to fight your case which en mass could well be the best possible route forward.


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## mercman

Well there's no secrets put on so far. Plenty of content on other web sites though.


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## rioja

any completions in vantage east yet?if so whatwas reduction in price?


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## nwarren

Hey
just wondering
has anybody heard from Lalco once they got there completion notice?? Has anybody been put under pressure by Lalco to _*complete?*_


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## DUNDEE

Hi,
Yeah lalco have sent me a snotty 2nd letter of completion. My solicitor is sending
a


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## maudlin

Dundee - did you send them a response to the first?

we have only received the first so far!


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## Fabio

*has anyone completed phase 1 or phase 2 of Vantage*

Hi all, Has anyone completed phase one or phase two of Vantage. If so I would be obliged if they would contact me. Thank You.
Fabio


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## Fabio

Hi I am interested in making contact with any one in the same position.(please see my previous posts) Please contact me for further information. Thank you.
Fabio


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## southside

anyone close on these apartments?  What is happening on site are any / many units now occupied?  Personal messages welcome!  Southside


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## buzios

Just saw on the CRO website that the developer was "strike off listed" a couple of weeks back. Any feedback on this is welcome. Early indications are that a liquidator will be put in place within the next 10 weeks.


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## Rolaga

The company is listed for strike-off however I'm not getting too excited yet. This only menas that they are behind in their accounts production, audit completion and companies office filing. Even if it is struck off they will have a year to get the audits completed and apply to re-instate the company without having to apply to the high court.

On the other hand while the company is struck off there will be no legal entity to sue any of the purchasers.

I would suspect that when/if the audits are completed there will be a very significant qualification on the audit report. Whether or not a liquidator/receiver is appointed will eventually depend on the attitude of the bank which is funding the development.


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## mercman

And at a meeting today in Dublin  I heard that  the developer was in serious stuck at the mo.


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## brigade

Anybody get word from the developer about closing in the next 28 days?


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## WillyB

Yes I have also received a completion notice. I believe the developer is under severe pressure from the bank to take this course of action.

This will allow The Bank / NAMA the ability to pick up the contacts and any possibility of a "performance case" against any non completions if was needed. Otherwise the developer could be struck off and the contracts deemed in valid.

Whether or not they would have a case is the question?


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## rpd1

has the building changed in any way, is there an extra floor put on? has anyone got the planning numbers?
has anyone tried to renegotiate the price?
i would like to contact other people to discuss these matters


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## SteveW9

did you people get your deposits back in the end or whats the story??


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## rmc

*Vantage*

Hi Rolga and Ask1 I am just wondering did you complete or are you negotiating, I also signed a contract back in 2006 to purchase a 2 bed in vantage and have todate received completion notices but nothing else, I am extremely keen to talk to you about this if at all possible, you might let me know if we could talk offline. 




anthony1975 said:


> Hey Rologa and Ask1. I am in the same situation having paid the 30K in 2006 and see no chance of being able to get a mortgage to close in the next few months. It does say in the contract that the apartments will be ready at the latest 3 years from date of signing contract. I don't think this holds much water however. I know of three other people in the same situation, all wanting to get out of the contract and walk away even if it means loosing the 30K. I know Fleming and Elliots have issued summons to a large number of people who like us would have paid a deposit a number of years ago and are now looking to get out of the contracts. I've also noticed how the papers are not covering these stories. I think this has alot to do with the fact that the papers rely on these builders for substantial advertising revenue (i the pat anyway).
> 
> Any information on this developement would be very welcome. I just don't know what is going to happen when they start contacting me to complete?


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