# EmpoweredInvesting.net?



## RedJoker (14 Feb 2007)

Hi, 

A friend sent me a link to . Anybody have any experience with them?

According to their website they trade based on value. I already have a lot of concerns about this just by looking at their website. They also have a forum so I might check that out as well.

Any opinions are appreciated.


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## DrMoriarty (14 Feb 2007)

Hardly, given that their website seems only to have been in existence for a couple of months and the only means of contact provided is an email address... 

Bit of a gamble, I'd say?


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## charttrader (14 Feb 2007)

Those cheesy testimonials don't inspire confidence.  No-one should do a seminar to find out about value investing, just not necessary.  Am also sick to death of people citing Warren Buffett as 'proof' that value is the only way to make money in the market.  There are thousands of value funds out there, none of them coming close to the returns Buffett makes.  He's the exception.

To be honest, most Irish people haven't a clue when it comes to the stock market.  In the US, you'd never get away with posting information as basic as this and expect to get paying clients.  I think it's a joke.

BTW, RedJoker, you've written in the past about your experiences with TICN and provided a detailed reading list on market matters http://www.askaboutmoney.com/showthread.php?t=34876
 I can't imagine you'd pick up a single piece of new information here.


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## RedJoker (15 Feb 2007)

Thanks charttrader. However, I'm only 20 and still trying to learn as much as possible. I've read TII but it's still nice to have a teacher pick out important points and elaborate or show more examples.

TICN don't really deliver when it comes to fundamentals. But empowered tell you that you'll only need to spend 1-2 hours a week researching companies so I doubt they're much better. 

I guess none of these seminars are really going to tell you how to dissect K's and Q's, I should probably just take an accounting course.


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## CCOVICH (15 Feb 2007)

RedJoker said:


> I guess none of these seminars are really going to tell you how to dissect K's and Q's, I should probably just take an accounting course.


 

'K's' and 'Q's'-could you explain this?


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## ajapale (15 Feb 2007)

CCOVICH said:


> 'K's' and 'Q's'-could you explain this?



Kings and Queens? Perhaps its a gambling term?


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## ajapale (15 Feb 2007)

Yes, I like the Arabic Language explanation and the Advanced DNA explanation.


Here is what the poster meant. 

[broken link removed]



> But not all financial reports are so easy to dissect.
> 
> *Annual and quarterly securities filings, known as 10-Ks and 10-Qs, respectively*, are filled with mind-numbing figures and grandiose statements that often obscure the most interesting content. Once in a while you'll find a real nugget, such as the fact that a company is saddled with insolvent customers or overwhelmed with inventory. But you have to know where to look.


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## ClubMan (15 Feb 2007)

ajapale said:


> Yes, I like the Arabic Language explanation and the Advanced DNA explanation.


The first hit in that _Google _search explains the terms.


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## ajapale (15 Feb 2007)

Sorry Clubman, I had done the same search and was amused by the alternative meanings associated with Ks and Qs.

Anyway here is the wiki definition which is easier to understand. SEC filings.


*10-Q*: Quarterly report filed pursuant to sections 13 or 15(d).
*10-K*: Annual report pursuant to section 13 and 15(d).


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## RedJoker (15 Feb 2007)

CCOVICH said:


> RedJoker said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
Sorry for not explaining what I meant in full. Glad people figured it out anyway. My point was that since a 10-K can sometimes be up to 100 pages long it is doubtful someone could study it in an hour or two and make an investment decision based on that.

These contain the balance sheet, income statements, cash flow statements, etc. and an understanding of accounting is necessary to know how the figures relate and where they are coming from. That was why I mentioned taking an accounting class.


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## Snow Boy (22 Feb 2007)

Hey Red Joker,

I'd forget about an accounting course if I was you. Have a look at 

Security Analysis by Benjamin Graham 

Analysis of Financial Statements by Leopold A. Bernstein, John J. Wild

The K's & Q's are naturally the best resource for getting to the core of the company as they're reports made to the SEC and therefore are the most legally accurate documents available. Don't forget to read the proxy. Often you'll get more info from the proxy as it contains a lot of the stuff they don't want to put into the Quarterly's and Annuals. The real important stuff like the corporate jets and the perks offered to directors the hidden places where the real money goes and it's normally a  much smaller document than than the K's & Q's.


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## RedJoker (22 Feb 2007)

Hi Snow,

I was talking to a retired hedge fund manager who swore blind that fundamental analysis was impossible without a strong understanding of accounting.  

I will put those books on my reading list, I have to start Stock Market Wizards, Fooled by Randomness and One up on Wall Street before I buy those though.  I'm also trying to get through two poker books at the moment, sometimes there's just not enough time in the day.

I'll make sure to check the proxys in future, thanks.


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## RedJoker (23 Feb 2007)

I thought I would link to a  on his forum, just in case he doesn't get a chance to respond here.

Originally Posted by *RedJoker*

I had a couple of questions regarding your website which I hoped you could answer. 



> Selling your stocks with simplicity, certainty and without having to pay a stockbroker.


 
Why would value investors be concerned about selling shares, surely these are long term positions (at least 1 year +)?

How is it possible to not pay commissions? I think I may have misinterpreted this part.



> How to calculate the Intrinsic value of a stock and in turn the entry & exit prices.


 
Assuming you're holding long term wouldn't the exit price change over time? You mentioned in the FAQ that Warren Buffet is a value investor. He has held positions for decades, I doubt he's concerned with exit prices.



> What is the difference between a stock market investor and a stock market speculator? - The key distinction of success in Value Investing!


 
There's more than one way to skin a cat in the market. Just because Warren is a Value Investor does not make it fool proof. There are value funds which trail the market as well.



> How to find & evaluate undervalued stocks in a matter of minutes.


 
Emmmm.....wow. Evaluate an entire company in a matter of minutes??? Really? You'd be comfortable investing large sums of money having only spent a few minutes researching?

From  article that was linked on your website.

You do realize buying more shares in Intel wasn't a good idea. Had Intel run into hard times the stock price may have plummeted and you may have been laid off. Having such focused risk seems silly. But then buying shares in the same sector such as Microsoft and Dell was just piling on more risk. 

Also, what can you teach us that isn't available for free on the web or cheaply by buying appropriate books?

I started a thread on askaboutmoney.com to see if anybody had any experiences with ye. Here is a link to it, it would be great if you could answer some of the questions people may have there. 

Thanks for your time and congratulations on your success.

Also, Warren Buffet once said that for 99% of investors their best option is to put their money in index funds.

Originally Posted by *Rob* 

Hi Red Joker,

Yep Index funds are a great pension plan no doubt about that. Low fees and excellent long term record. As I buy and hold strategy you can't beat it. Perfect for passive investors. 

There are a few out there like you and me who are looking for a higher return and are willing to do a little research to find stocks that provide good short term opportunities. The opportunity may be they are undervalued, out of favour etc. Time is your friend. It can take 3 months or 2 years for the market to realize the true price of a stock. Short term for me is anything under 2 years. 

You will pay trade commissions to a brokerage company for any trades executed. However you'd be surprised how many people still purchase stocks with a stockbroker and are of course paying extra for this. 
The seminar facilitates people who are learning to invest in the stock market from scratch as well as those wanting to learn more about fundamentals. 

Value investing strategies have evolved over time. 20 years ago the buy and hold model was very successful. The most important thing when investing as far as i'm concerned is risk management. Now most of the value managers are in agreement that it is much more profitable to sell when the risk reward ratio changes to the point where a stock becomes over valued or close to it's intrinsic value. Capital may be better employed in a less risky position with a greater upside potential and less downside risk. 

It would be very foolish to invest in a stock without an exit strategy as i'm sure you'll agree. Therefore yes I do recommend set exit points prior to investing. When your money is in the stock you're emotionally involved whether you like it or not. 

I've no problem with people speculating in the market. Problem is a lot of people confuse it and think they're investing. As long as people are aware of the distinction that's all that matters. It's about awareness. You've obviously been studying the stock market for a while. This course was developed to give people a starting point and I have had a number of experienced traders come along to get a fundamental overview. 

There are many subscription based resources available to evaluate stocks on the market. If someone wants to invest without having to analyze the company reports themselves there are options available to them which present a lot less risk than the general strategy that most people have of buying a stock crossing their fingers and hoping for the best. 

Wow you've really been analayzing everything in a lot of detail. Congratulations i'm very impressed it sounds like you will make an excellent investor. The Intel shares experience that the journalist described was my first trade back in '97. I guess it's hard to get a real picture from a five min conversation with a journalist and an article of a few lines. Let's just say we all learn and evolve our strategy by experience. Would it shock you to know that when I started out investing in the stock market I really didn't know what I was doing and made mistakes. One thing I will say is if I had taken a seminar similar to our 1 Day seminar 10 years ago. I would certainly have made more money than I did. 

With regard to finding a seminar that has information that isn't in any books. Good luck. I've never heard of such a thing. A seminar or a course by it's nature in any field or subject is always a mix of information gathered from books and experience. 

I'll have a look at your thread on askaboutmoney when I get a chance. 
Rgds,
Rob.

Originally Posted by *RedJoker*

Thanks for responding.



> Value investing strategies have evolved over time. 20 years ago the buy and hold model was very successful. The most important thing when investing as far as i'm concerned is risk management. Now most of the value managers are in agreement that it is much more profitable to sell when the risk reward ratio changes to the point where a stock becomes over valued or close to it's intrinsic value. Capital may be better employed in a less risky position with a greater upside potential and less downside risk.


 
Regarding your risk reward ratios; are you using a straight 50-50 model, i.e. probability of going up X amount is the same as probability of going down Y amount? Or do you weight the probabilities?

For example, you value the intrinsic value of a stock at $20. You then buy at $10. It goes to $17. You believe the stock has $3 potential upside and $7 potential downside. Is your risk reward ratio 7 – 3, or is it (P1)7 – (P2)3, or (P)7 – (1-P)3?

Also, what are your thoughts on diversification and portfolio theory? Do you consider them when investing or are they ignored?



> It would be very foolish to invest in a stock without an exit strategy as i'm sure you'll agree. Therefore yes I do recommend set exit points prior to investing. When your money is in the stock you're emotionally involved whether you like it or not.


 
Do you use stop losses? Do you set sell orders at your target exit price?



> You've obviously been studying the stock market for a while.


 
I’m 20 and have been actively studying the market for the last 3 years.



> There are many subscription based resources available to evaluate stocks on the market. If someone wants to invest without having to analyze the company reports themselves there are options available to them which present a lot less risk than the general strategy that most people have of buying a stock crossing their fingers and hoping for the best.


 
I use Valuelines.



> Let's just say we all learn and evolve our strategy by experience. Would it shock you to know that when I started out investing in the stock market I really didn't know what I was doing and made mistakes.


 
We all make mistakes, I’m still making mistakes. I probably always will, you can’t know everything, sometimes you need to make educated guesses or estimates.



> With regard to finding a seminar that has information that isn't in any books. Good luck. I've never heard of such a thing. A seminar or a course by it's nature in any field or subject is always a mix of information gathered from books and experience.


 
Which books have you drawn from when creating this seminar? Any recommended reading before taking this seminar? Are there any other books you would recommend?

Also, how can you teach people to be successful investors and expect them to learn everything they need to know about the market in the space of just 1 day?


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## dunkamania (24 Feb 2007)

CFA programme is out there for those who want to mix learning more with picking up a professional qualification

[broken link removed]


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