# Fuel burning stove with back boiler not heating rads.



## tt2685

Hi,
    My Mother had a solid fuel stove with back boiler installed last year.. From day one there are been problems with it,Leaking at first had to get plumbers back out to put extra tank in attick etc... When these problems where finally solved and we could light the stove properly we discovered that it was not heating the rads(only luke warm on a good day). She has tried different types of fuel etc.. Eventually we got friend of family who is apprentice plumber to have a look and after a lot of looking he said that the wrong size copper pipes were installed 1/4 inch pipes not inch pipes, and there is not enough pressure to push water into rads..After falling out with builder who installed it because he said the stove was not big enough to heat rads(15-20 we were told in shop)and we have 17 rads, my mother is at her wits end because alot of money was spent on it and she still has to use oil heating all the time..Could anyone shed some light on this problem?? Sorry for long post.....Thank you...


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## fmc

TT what make and model is the stove?

Ask a plumber to calculate the heat load of all the rads together and see if this is matched, nearly matched or exceeded by the stoves output. 

From what you have posted if the stove had an 1" flow and return and the plumber/builder used 1/4" its defo going cause a problem. Also a leaking system fixed by putting a tank in the attick doesn't make sense? Someones feeding you bull.


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## tt2685

Thanks fmc,
                 We did the calulating thing and builder said there is not enough heat load for all the rads but man in shop said there is..we tried turning off half of rads to see would it heat up other rads but made no difference..As one of the copper pipes is buried underneath new wooden floors in concrete and there is brick work around other one it will be a major job to change them.there is actually 3/4 inch pipes when there should be inch pipes(sorry made mistake in first post).Will check make and model later in day...Thanks


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## tt2685

The stove is a Glenmore 12kw by Hamco bought in Dublin Builders provided in Wexford.. What if we just replaced the pipe that is behind brickwork(going up to attic) would this work if it is the pipes.. We have 12 rads in house one is a double..thanks


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## villa 1

Looks like your stove is a little undersized to accommodate your heating load. You need to acquire the services of a plumbing contractor who is competent in the installation of open vented solid fuel heating systems. The mention of gravity fed open vented systems will send many contractors to the hills as they do not know how to install open vented systems as they are used to the easier closed systems as used on the majority of system boilers that are fitted nowadays.


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## Vacuum Box

villa 1....I disagree... if you have a good enough pump to pump the water around the house from the stove you would imagine that if the stove was lit in the morning and was top'ed off with coal or turf during the day, the water should be boiling..i would look at what pump you are using... a smaller powered pump would not pump the already boiling water around the house fast enough to heat the rads...


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## villa 1

A standard three speed pump should be adequate for any domestic heating system. A higher speed pump will create terrible noise and water turbulence in the heating system, especially if radiators/zones are controlled properly by necessary controls. If the system is installed using a balanced system of properly sized pipework there should be no problem with hot water circulation and heat outputs.

A pump with too high a motor speed can lead to pump over problems, leading to extreme amounts of corrosion in open vented heating systems, ie, rotting steel radiators, sludging of radiators and clogging of pipework. I have seen and repaired many systems.

This was a huge problem in the era of the solid fuel wrap around heating boilers and will be a problem with the onset of stove/boiler installations

The solid fuel stove seems to be undersized to accomodate the heating/hot water load and the pipework size and design seems to be wrong.

You cannot depend on a pump to circulate water alone. The design of the system has to be right.

Remember the pump is a circulator not a pressure pump. I do have experience in these matters!!


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## Vacuum Box

How come then that in my own house, which is small with an equally small fire can supply enough hot water to heat 12 rad, 4 of which are double and enough hot water for taps /baths.. it also has a high motor speed. it has not let me down over the last 9 years ?


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## villa 1

Your system happens to be working, the original poster's is not. I am just giving my opinion and and that should count for something after 35 yrs in the pumbing/heating/training business. 
As I previously stated, the poster should get an authority on open vented solid fuel heating systems to advise on the situation. I'm sure that the problems can be overcome with expert advise. The solid fuel system is interlinked with an oil fired system so problems may also lie there.
Never take advice from shops, builders, heating,plumbing supplies etc as they are generally not qualified in the area.


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## tt2685

Thank you Villa 1 and Vacuum box..Some questions if u dont mind..If the stove is indeed too small to heat all 12rads wouldnt turning off half of these make the other ones heat up?? What problems can accure with fuel stove and oil heating.. Where would my Mother find an expert in stove instulation.. Her water is also not boiling hot it is as de rads luke warm..Alot of money was spent on both the stove and insulation and my Mother is so disappointed with it not working.. Thank you..


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## tt2685

May i also add that the house is a bungalow..Dont know if this makes any difference but have read on this site of people installing smaller stoves that will only heat downstairs rads...


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## jdoc

We had the same problem with a stanley range recently. it was only required to heat 6 rads.The fire was ab roaring and the rads were only luke warm. It turned out after getting 3 diff plumbers to look at it that it was plumbed in all wrong. Well worth money to get well established plumber to take a look at it.


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## DavyJones

I agree with Villa, boiler is probably undersized. Very few stoves will heat 17 rads unless you stand beside it and shovel coal into it non stop. However, this is unlikely to be the main problem. Very often these stove's are piped wrong. 3/4" pipes to rad circuit should be ok. If the oil is heating rads, then it is ok. 

The problem is at the cylinder and the position of the stove pump. Are you getting good hot water in cylinder from stove?


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## villa 1

Employ the services of a suitably qualified plumber who has a past catalogue of correct dual central heating installations (oil/gas and solid fuel interlinked). They are out there. Ring/contact his/her previous happy customers!!
The stove should have an unrestricted 1 inch primary circuit between the stove and the dual coil hot water storage cyinder. There should be a seperate heating circuit (3/4 inch as Davy says)) linked to the flow/returns from the oil boiler. The system should be fed from an open 45 litre feed and expansion cistern which is normally sited in the attic roofspace. You cannot connect a solid fuel range/boiler to a closed/sealed heating system. If so if a powercut occurs and there is slow circulation you could be looking at steam generation and a possible explosion!!
There are many more technical requirements for a dual heating system and I don't want to confuse the original poster.
Finally with the onset of more dual systems I fear that there will be many problematic substandard systems fitted as most plumbers these days just do not know how to install efficient dual heating systems as during the mad tiger years they have been conditioned to fitting the very common sealed system boilers and nothing else!!


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## tt2685

Thank you all for ur information.. I think yous are right in just getting qualified plumber who deals with these types of stoves to come look at it..Was wondering JDoc how much it was to get someone out to look at ur stove and give you quote to fix it?? Thank you


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## jdoc

First plumber charged 600 to put in the stove, the 2nd didn't charge, he just looked at it and said that the prob was the stove and the 3rd guy charged 800 to take out the stove, change pipes and refit it, his price included pipes he used. The first guy left a bill in the hardware store. Stove is going great now all rads pumping shortly after stove lit. Should have just got a decent plumber to begin with.


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## fmc

An undersized stove will always be a probelm and one that gets worse. Imagine the water coming back always cold to the stove this in effect also cools the flame of the fire and the fire burns less efficiently a lot of the time creating sooring and crosete on the boiler surface itself. This in turn means theres even less heat tranfer of the fire to the water so it is perpetually getting worse. 
A heat load calculated in Kw or btus is always better than how many rads will it heat.


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## byrne1

hi can you tell me did you get it sorted as i am having the same problem i have just installed a 30 kw back boiler stove it is only heating 5 rads and they are only warm not hot, the plumber saids it is plumbed right ,am i expecting to much i have paid a lot of money on this and i am so disappointed would love to know your result


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## villa 1

Get your plumber back. A 30kw stove will heat 5 radiators and loads of hot water and more. Don't take any cock and bull story. If this guy has any pride in his work he should get this stove piping hot leading to an efficient heating system. 
Make sure he has installed a 1inch primary gravity circuit for hot water heating and a seperate heating circiut for your radiators. This is not rocket science!!
Before he calls have the stove nicely ticking over with a good establshed fire in the stove. Ask him then where is this heat going


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## byrne1

Hi Villa 1. Thank you for your reply. We were told it would heat 20 radiators comfortably. We have 10 double radiators and we also have zoned heating, it is only heating when one zone is off and they are only luke warm. We have fueled it up to the top with coal, used 2 bags of 40k in two days, to see if it would make a difference, its doesn't. Plumber says all pipes are right, rang manufacturer, maybe its the stove. Waiting for a reply from them.


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## Lak

I would echo Villas sentiments 100%, a plumber with experience of stoves is essential, I have had three seperate plumbers each making my stove and heating system progressively worse to the point where I get no hot water from the stove, the thermostat has to be set very low to keep the pump running constantly or the pipes start to rattle like mad, i have a new plumber out next week recomended by the stove shop so fingers crossed this time.
One question can the back boiler itself get broken and therefor not operate ?


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## villa 1

80 kg of coal in two days. That's enough for a steam engine!! 
I would get the plumber over to investigate, end of. Someting is definetly wrong. Has the heat load for the system been calculated?


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## byrne1

Hi I will ask him, please god it will get sorted, i feel a bit ill about it as it has cost a lot to get it installed ,maybe a call to the manufacture to see have they got some one who will look at it for me


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## johnno

I have a dual system myself.Oil fired system was already in house when I bought it.Got a Stanley glass fronted yoke fitted which doesnt seem to heat all the rads(11).Some heating okay,others not at all.My one worry is if the stove is hopping and theres a power cut-plumber told me to stand well back!!There is an expansion tank.I inch pipes from stove to cyclinder.Think I will be engaging the services of a qualified plumber next time.
Very helpful replies villa 1 ,put me in the picture a bit!


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## danask

*Similar problem, need a few pointers*

Hi, hope you don't mind me piggy backing on your post. I am in a similar situation. Bungalow has original oil system in place, added a solid fule back boiler two years ago. Was not happy with system last year, rads warm but not hot, did some research and adjusted the rads, turned off two double rads and the heat was much better. 

The recent cold weather caused a pipe to burst in the attic, in the panic a neighbour turned a few valves in the hot press while looking for the mains. Since then the system has been very cool, only heating the first two or three rads. When the plumber put in the back boiler he pointed out two valves (red taps) and told me not to adjust them.

You lads seem to know about "unorthadox" systems, when setting up a dual system, what what function would these valves have. It look slike they areregulating flow back to the back boiler and the second one is restricting flow back to the header tank in the attic. This is a bit abstract. If I put together a schematic could i get some advice. I have had three plumber in so far, each had a different answer, want to know what I am talking about before I get another one.

Thanks.


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## villa 1

There isn't an unorthodox system when it comes to dual heating systems, that is oil fired/solid fuel. The system can be installed correctly but many people expect the same performance from solid fuel appliances as against oil or gas fired appliances. They are fooling themselves. There is no comparison.
If you look at my previous posts you will see how I have explained how to install a dual heating system successfully and safely.
The solid fuel stove will have a open vented 25mm diameter copper primary circuit connected to a dual coil cylinder. This circuit will heat the cylinder when the stove is lighting. There are to be no valves on this circuit whatsoever.
The heating circuit from the stove is in turn connected to the heating circuit from the oil boiler and there is a non-return valve on this circuit to stop the oil boiler heating the stove when the stove is not lighting. I you want any more info on this pm me  and I can give you more info.


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## Leo

villa 1 said:


> I you want any more info on this pm me and I can give you more info.


 
Please post publicly so that others may benefit.
Leo


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## tablesalt

villa 1 said:


> Many people expect the same performance from solid fuel appliances as against oil or gas fired appliances. They are fooling themselves. There is no comparison.


Can you elaborate please? Are you saying that a solid fuel appliance alone may not be adequate for a big house?


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## byrne1

Hi just a quick update ,rang the manufacturers who sent their plumber to have a look ,he agreed that the plumbing was fine, he also said the stove should be well able to heat the amount of radiators (10 double) but he did not know were the heat was going, so i suggested that maybe it was the stove and he agreed to replace it ,so last Friday we got a new stove fitted, a bit of a messy job, he left ,i lit ,hey presto its working ,my house is toasty ,radiators and water are really hot, so it* was* the stove and everybody said it could not be, as they are so simple they can’t go wrong, but they can, just to say my house is 2600 Sq-ft and the stove is 30k and is now heating it comfortably, i would like to thank villa1 for your support and askaboutmoney ,i can now get my house back to normal. Thanks again


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## villa 1

That's great news and i'm happy that things worked out


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## pache

wonderful news with your new stove,what interests me is what was wrong with the old one.............???


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## byrne1

Hi i really don't know ,the stove looks the same on the outside but the inside is smaller because the side panels are bigger (thicker)so i think it can hold more water,but that is only a guess.


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## angela59

I have a Charnwood boiler stove which heats up to 13 radiators, I have it installed 3 years now and the radiators are never boiling only luke warm - we have 6 double radiators and 3 normal size radiators.  I was never happy with the it - would it be worth my while to have a 2nd or third opinion - or would new rads help the situation?   Any advice appreciated.

Angela59


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## Roamer808

I'm running a Hunter Herald 14 into a 250 litre cylinder with these rads: 400d,400d,900d,1000d,1000d,1000d,1000s,1300d,1200towelrail.
After the fire is running for about an hour, all rads are toasty(TRV's fitted to save tiny hands), after 2 hours the cylinder water is roasting. I have it wired currently to pump water to both cylinder and rads together, which I know is not the way I want it when all the system is finished but at this stage it is still heating everything. I ran a double pass to the boiler in 1" pipe. All pipes to the rads are 3/4" until the last metre then to 1/2".
Your monster is 30kw - that's a power station not a stove. As Villa1 says - get him back.
Did you get it fixed?


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## Pamkly

*Rayburn (oil) versus multi fuel stoves.*

HI all, I am thinking about changing my beautiful rayburn for a multi fuel stove as the rayburn contains all the heat in the cooker, ie doesnt get hot on the outside so the kitchen is cold as has no rads in it. it works perfectly other than that. A multi fuel stove will heat the room. Am so confused would be afraid of problems arising too. Any info greatly appreciated. Many thanks.


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## kjohn

*back boiler problem*

looking at ure comments u seem to know what ure talking about i have recently put in back boiler and linked it into my heating system but rads are not heating properly my boiler is 30kw i had to go up into attic across the attic the down into utility room to connect to system rads dont seem to heat i have used 1 inch pipes all round  just wondered if u had come across problem before i cant get into system on ground floor would this be the problem would app a reply kjohn


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## paddycdub

I recently got a new stove with back boiler, to heat 12 rads.  We have 10.  the rads never get really warm and cool very quickly.  We have lit blazing fires and the heat out of the stove isn't even that hot.  We bought the Heritage on this site: stoves2udirect .eu under the boiler stove section

Is it the stove that's the problem?  I wouldn't think it was the plumber since he's very reputable and have the experience.  Pipes are 1inch.  

Also there's a valve with red knob on the back, not sure what it's for.

If it's the stove can we send it back for a refund, it's only 2 months old.


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## villa 1

I'm not too sure about the make/model of the stove but I recently installed a stove for a neice of mine(not on the tools anymore!!) and it is keeping a 2,500 square foot house nice and toasty.
Has the stove the capacity/output to heat all of your radiators? I would call the plumber back and put down a good fire. The system may have to be balanced and this cannot be done unless the fire is lighting for approx 2/3 hrs.
The valve with the red knob is a pressure relief valve which is a mandatory fit on all solid fuel heating appliances. This valve will open and drip if there is a over presurisation event.


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## paddycdub

villa 1 said:


> I'm not too sure about the make/model of the stove but I recently installed a stove for a neice of mine(not on the tools anymore!!) and it is keeping a 2,500 square foot house nice and toasty.
> Has the stove the capacity/output to heat all of your radiators? I would call the plumber back and put down a good fire. The system may have to be balanced and this cannot be done unless the fire is lighting for approx 2/3 hrs.
> The valve with the red knob is a pressure relief valve which is a mandatory fit on all solid fuel heating appliances. This valve will open and drip if there is a over presurisation event.



Thanks for the extra info.  I'll arrange for the plumber to come back out so.  

thanks again


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## delly74

hi all i also bought stove from the company paddycclub was talking about.. i have had nothing but problems since the stove was installed. firstly smoke filling the house when door opened then blacked glass all the time it does not heat the house at all. i have now noticed water collecting at bottom of stove under the ash pan... im at my wit end at this stage feel it is going to be the most expensive ornament in the house... as i am getting scared to light it were all going to be dead from carbon dioxide posioning... any idea whats going on tks


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## paddycdub

delly74 said:


> hi all i also bought stove from the company paddycclub was talking about.. i have had nothing but problems since the stove was installed. firstly smoke filling the house when door opened then blacked glass all the time it does not heat the house at all. i have now noticed water collecting at bottom of stove under the ash pan... im at my wit end at this stage feel it is going to be the most expensive ornament in the house... as i am getting scared to light it were all going to be dead from carbon dioxide posioning... any idea whats going on tks



When we first got our stove from this company it too was leaking.  We got it replaced within 2 days.  Our second one seems fine, except of course for my original post above.   Somebody suggested we fit a damper.  But I don't think this will resolve anything.  Will only limit the air and so burn slower and not as hot.

PS, I'd get a carbon monoxide detector, for safety.  Can't be too careful.  have you tried going back to stoves2udriect?


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## donegal100

Hello all, I am a new poster, looking for info about my new back boiler system. I have 3 coils in my 251lt tank, 1 for solar panels (which are fantastic), 1 for oil (fitted when house was built and working fine) and now a stove with back boiler fitted onto the 3rd coil. Like some others on this thread I was very disappointed with the performance of the stove, but eventually found out that it was the way I was using the fire - it was not adequately explained in the booklet, but I kept the vents at the top of the glass door open so the glass would stay clean, but this was sending all the heat up the chimney. Since being advised to close it after the fire gets going my rads are nice and hot - but i still have a problem, the water in my tank isn't heating - the plumber just keeps telling me that it is because I have such a big tank, but when the rads were not heating properly he was telling me that I would have keep on a roaring fire just to heat them - but I told him that I had bought the correct fire for the number of rads, but he just didn't take me on.
Sorry for long post, but anyone got any suggestions? BTW the pump does a lot of loud clicking and clanking when it starts running, as does the back boiler when the fire gets hot..


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## Shane007

Could you give more information on which pipe the pump is located on and where the pipe thermostat is located.

Also which coil in the cylinder is being used for the stove, middle coil or top coil? Also does the stove coil flow pipe enter the cylinder above the coil returning to the stove or are they side by side?


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## donegal100

I will try my best to answer your questions. The thermostat is located in my loft (bungalow) directly above where the pipe enters the loft. Both pipes go up into the loft. 

I think it is the middle coil in the tank as there were no pipes attached to this large nut until I got the stove fitted. The solar seems enter at the top (it has different colour lagging), but I am not sure where the oil enters - it may be round the back of the tank and I can't see it. 

It looks like the stove coil pipe does enter the cylinder above the return and the pump is on the pipe attached to the returning coil pipe, but above the point where the return of the coil comes out of the tank.

Does all that make sense?


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## Shane007

If both pipes are rising from the stove, going across the attic and dropping down into hot press, then this is absolutely plumbed incorrectly. Is the pipe thermostat on the flow pipe or the return pipe? (Flow pipe is the top pipe exiting the stove)

If this is the way it is plumbed, then god only knows what will happen if you have a large fire lit and you have a circulating pump failure or a power cut!

Is the pump for the stove fitted on the stove circuit or on the pipes teed from the primary circuit to the radiators?

Middle coil is the correct coil.


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## donegal100

The thermostat is on the flow pipe. There is an expansion tank in the loft too. I have had many large fires lit. The rads get hot but i know it is not heating the tank because I have thermostats at different positions in the tank for the solar, and I can read the temperature at different points in the tank. It never gets any hotter by the end of the evening than it was before I light the fire. 
I am sorry I am not sure if I can answer that last question I will have to get help from someone, but from my limited knowledge it looks like it is fitted on stove circuit. The return of the stove coil leaves the tank and goes upwards into the loft. The pump is on this pipe.


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## donegal100

I just heard noise in the loft and found that hot water was flushing into the expansion tank. Could this be where my hot water is going?


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## Shane007

Your system is pitching. This will in no time at all begin to rust your heating system from the inside out. As it pitches from the open vent safety pipe into the expansion tank, it gathers fresh oxygen, thus re-oxygenating the water in your heating system, which oxidizes the steel parts of the system, i.e. internals of radiators, stove, boiler, etc. This will also lead to a lot of sludge within your system and you will definitely need your system powerflushed.

Two things are also happening here. Both the pipes should not be run your your attic. You have no gravity circuit whatsoever. Hot water is less dense than cold water and it naturally wants to rise when hot and colder more dense water wants to lower, creating a circuit. Your return from the cylinder (cooler dense water) has to rise into the attic to get back to the stove. Equally the hot (less dense) water in the flow needs to drop down from the attic into your cylinder which is does not want to do naturally. The banging will be from the pump not kicking in quick enough. The pipe thermostat should thus be re-located to the flow pipe as it exits the stove.

More importantly you do not have enough height between the upper most part of the heating system, i.e. the flow & return pipes in the attic and the f & e tank. This distance must be minimum 1/3 of the head of pressure generated by the circulating pump, therefore if the pump is a 25/50 (5 meter pump) the minimum distance is 1.66m and if it is a 25/60 (6 meter pump), the minimum distance should be 2m.

I would also check where the f & e pipe is teed into the system and where the open safety vent pipe tees off the system.

It is probably best to get somebody else in to check the system but make sure they know what they are talking about. Question them and ask them to explain in detail what the prblem is.

To install this system correctly you will either need to move the stove or break up the floor from the stove to the hot press to re-route the return pipe from the attic.


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## Shane007

What is the temperature of the pipe thermostat set to? 
If this is low to bring in the pump early to reduce banging, it will not switch off until it cools to that low temperature again, thus once the stove goes out, it will use the hot water in the cylinder as the heat source and drain out the hw water via the coil.

The f & e tank will also be acting as a radiator due to the pitching.


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## donegal100

thank you for your advice. I will print off your comments and try to find a plumber who can fix the system. Problem is that plumbers do not want to take on what other plumbers have done, and second problem is getting a plumber to come in the first place!
Several people have said that the return pipe should be going back in the floor to the stove. I have solid wooden floors so it would mean taking up and spoiling part of the floor, but I am willing to do this to get the problem sorted.
BTW I have seen the 2 pipe via the loft working fine in other people's homes.


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## Shane007

Yes it can be got to work but will it work safely when there is a power cut or a pump failure. Raising the tank will probably help the issue. Relocating the pipe thermostat to close to the outlet of the stove will also help bringing on the pump quicker.

There maybe other issues also that obviously I cannot see remotely but a decent plumber or heating engineer should be able to give the correct advice.

Your initial installer should have expained all the implications to you before carrying out this work and therefore you would been in a position to make an informed decision as whether or not to make the required changes to your home.


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## donegal100

I was told that the best method would be one pipe up and other down, but that it would work with both pipes up, so I went for that.

Thanks Shane007 I will take a copy of your advice and try to get some help.


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## dawnsurprise

hi there
does anyone have any feedback on a Hamco Glenmore B30... we are thinking of installing it to heat approx 22 rads.. we have a stanley eirn, however this is not suitable for the number of rads we have.


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## villa 1

The system (drop gravity) will work once the bottom of the hot water cylinder is fitted above the top of stove. This pipework route is undertaken if it is not possible to route the primary return under the floor from the hot water cylinder back to the stove. The primary circuit will be made up of an unrestricted 1 inch copper pipe with no valves, pumps fitted.
The maximum distance on a horizontal plane between the stove and cylinder is 8/9m
The optimum location for the cylinder is sitting beside the stove.


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## donegal100

I think moving my tank into the loft would be a good idea - I have no room to get it above the height of the stove as it is 5ft tall and the solar panel controls are above it in my hot press. I am getting some advice on that now.

I told the plumbers who fitted the new tank that I would be getting a stove with a back boiler and to include a 3rd coil to accommodate it. Strange they didn't realize that would cause this problem.


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## jackswift

byrne1 said:


> Hi Villa 1. Thank you for your reply. We were told it would heat 20 radiators comfortably. We have 10 double radiators and we also have zoned heating, it is only heating when one zone is off and they are only luke warm. We have fueled it up to the top with coal, used 2 bags of 40k in two days, to see if it would make a difference, its doesn't. Plumber says all pipes are right, rang manufacturer, maybe its the stove. Waiting for a reply from them.


 I installed a stove last week in place of a stanley oil cooker. I lit a few small fires at first as recommended. After the first few small fires I put down a very good coal fire and kept it going all night. The rads were only tepid and no heat from the stove. I had heard that timber was best fuel for a stove with a back boiler. Next night I burned all timber and everything worked like it should water piping hot and room tempt went up to almost 25 degrees C. It is a Boru 20kw stove heating 10 rads in a bungalow.


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## hilloftara

byrne1 said:


> Hi just a quick update ,rang the manufacturers who sent their plumber to have a look ,he agreed that the plumbing was fine, he also said the stove should be well able to heat the amount of radiators (10 double) but he did not know were the heat was going, so i suggested that maybe it was the stove and he agreed to replace it ,so last Friday we got a new stove fitted, a bit of a messy job, he left ,i lit ,hey presto its working ,my house is toasty ,radiators and water are really hot, so it* was* the stove and everybody said it could not be, as they are so simple they can’t go wrong, but they can, just to say my house is 2600 Sq-ft and the stove is 30k and is now heating it comfortably, i would like to thank villa1 for your support and askaboutmoney ,i can now get my house back to normal. Thanks again



hi can i ask what brand because im having same trouble and company wont acknowledge me thanks


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## jimmyjo

Hello byrne1,

I can see you solved your boiler problem and now all is well....could you please tell me which stove/boiler you have as I am looking for a good one myself, and also the cost as well please..I need one to heat up about 20 rads.


Villa1,

You have helped so many people on here and would appreciate it if you could also answer the questions:

1,What makes are best for heating 20 rads?
2,How much will it roughly cost?
3,Any idea where to buy?


Thanks 


Thanks


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## villa 1

Hiya Jimmyjo. Just spotted you enquiry.
I would check out Olymberyl, Hunter or stanley stoves with boilers. They should range in price from 1.500-2000 euros in price.
The best place to buy these stoves would be in a plumbers merchant/ co-op/creamery or a large general hardware store like MD O'Sheas etc.
Make sure you get a reputable plumbing contractor to fit this appliance and check out his/her past catalogue of installations of this type. This is important as many contractors are not proficient in installations using gravity circulation and design which can lead to ongoing heating/plumbing problems and in some cases extremely dangerous situations.
The plumber will be able to size your heating requirement and recommend a suitable stove with adequate output.
Keep in mind that a solid fuel heating appliance will not have the same heating up time a a gas/oil boiler and will also be less efficient.
Hope this helps!!


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## Palerider

I have a Stanley Erin with a back boiler that adequately heats several rads ( not all of them ) it is an open system with an expansion tank in the attic, the main heat source in the house was gas which is now rarely used but available to boost the heat if required, I do not run both systems at the same time for safety reasons.

I am satisfied with the heat output but have some questions...

Stove and water tank are on the same level, the hot water pipe exits the top of the stove at the rear and travels up at a 45 degree angle for about 4 metres then crosses inside the ceiling space about 4 metres and down through the water tank to heat the water, it is an unorthodox system, plumbers have told me it can't possibly work as hot water just cannot travel across and down again, but it does and there is no pump at this point assisting it's travel, it is capable of heating the water tank....?

I lose heat in the water tank overnight through I think simple heat transfer through the pipes, I was going to put a thermostatic non return value on the pipe that will close down this heat transfer but am concerned about doing this, If I do I will keep my heat in the water tank to my desired temperature but are there risks..?

My small expansion tank in way up in the attic space ( it's a dormer ), this expansion tank heats up just as much as the rads, is this normal..?.

The pump used to circulate the heat through the rads is manually controlled, the system itself makes no unusual noises.

My stove also heats a little when the gas boiler is on, I can feel the heated pipe entering the stove and circulating in / out of the stove which of course heats the boiler in the stove..

How does this sound..?, I'm aware that I shouldn't really have solid fuel effectively broken into the sealed system that is natural gas but so be it...the system is in about 3 years now, trouble free but am I storing up trouble from a bodge job that was just made to work day 1..?...would my addition of another thermostic valve work..?

Thoughts welcome .>?


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## ehtniatpac

Hi, I had an Avon Saddle multi fuel burner that heated water and supplied 9 radiators but a pump was required to heat the radiators. We had a thermostat fitted in the kitchen. System worked perfectly for 30 years burning mostly old wood palets and a bit of coal


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## paddybarnwel

*stove not heating radiators*

Hi i know your question is a little old and i hope you solved your problem i recently had ther same problem rads only getting lukewarm had plumbers out to look but they couldnt find aything wrong then a friend of mine had a look he said there was air in the system but bleeding the rads from the bleed valve on the rads wouldnt get the air out so he turned off one of the valves at the bottom of the rads and loosened the nut then turned the valve back on the amonut of air that came out was unbelievable turned vale off again retightened the nut instant heat done the same with all the rads house is now roasting dont know if this will help everyone but sorted my problem out has to be worth a try if your stove is not heating your rads ps remember to put big bowl under the valve to catch the water


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## born-to-run

Hi there, I have recently installed a 14Kw multi-fuel back boiler stove during a two room extension where we added 3 extra radiators bringing the number up to 13 (3 of them are doubles). We use the stove as a back up to oil central heating. All the radiators in the house work well, except for one in the extension that needs regular bleeding, when using the oil heating. But when using the stove to heat the rads there are two of them cold, no heat at all going to them. One of the rads not working is the one that needs constant bleeding. We turn off some of the rads to force the heat around but it still not working.  Is it the pump at the back boiler (which worked fine when running the open fire back boiler) not have enough capacity for the extra rads?
Any ideas?


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## Donegal40

Hi Villa1

I never post on these sites but my Mother has installed a stove to heat water and radiators and regrets the whole thing. (Erin Stanley to heat up to 12 radiators, she also has oil central heating which they still use) I spent two years convincing her to get the stove but she has so many problems with it. It has cost thousands... Would it be possible to get your advice on a few things, we are going to get the plumber back (again) but I am very interested in your feedback and would greatly appreciate it:

With the oil everything works perfectly, all radiators heat instantly etc, its a old bungalow, probably 1950's.
When the stove is on:

1. It takes at least one hour to heat the water after the stove is lit
2. Then there is a gushing noise and the radiator in the living room heats well but will die down after half hour, they spike alot.
3. Another half hour the rest of the radiators (max 8) will heat okayish apart from 3.
4. We have to switch on another button for these radiators but only two will heat.
5. We were told the third wasnt heating because the fire needed to be bigger which I kept telling my Mum to do.... but I've seen it and a big fire made no difference...the last radiator is cold (not even luke warm) and there is a cracking, bubbling noise from the stove if a big fire is put on.

Everyone is very frustrated!


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## Leo

The first line of the description on the Erin Stanley product page reads 'the Erin not only heats up to 9 radiators but also provides a plentiful source of hot  water for your home.' So it's likely undersized to heat all 12 rads. Others with more knowledge in this field may help with the rest.


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## thelimit

sound like there is a big air lock somewhere, its possible to install so air release valves, 
also i had a stanley Erin and sold it on as it would not heat 12 rads for me only slightly warm so it does sound like its undersized but it also sounds like its airlock on the solid fuel system
i think the switch your talking about is zoning possible bedrooms ? 
solid fuel is nice however  you do still need oil as a primer to heat the rads to a decent temp before the stove takes over its a black art 


first off get the plumber to check for air locks on the solid fuel system 

one last thing what fuel is your mum using ?


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## Kittycat80

Can any one advise on the Standley Donards solid fuel. I am looking at one to put in to  3000 sq ft house new build.  Same will be zoned. It advise that it heats 12 standard rad, not sure what they class standard is that single or double.  I am looking at one in McDonaghs in Galway they are selling for 4K. Any one any experience with same?

Does any one know when the Donard was original realised as I don't want a cook that is the end of the line and if any thing goes wrong and can't get parts!


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## Rod22149

Not sure if you solved the problem as this was years ago..but if everyth seemed to be piped ok and the pump was big enough .it sounds to me that maybe there was no injection tee fitted ..this allows the rads to get priority when the pump cuts in..if this isn't fitted the water will mainly pump round your coil with very little water goin in the direction of the rads resulting in them not heating


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## Jadealan

Villa 1. Or anyone who can help me....
Just a question my self n my mam got Stanley stoves put in around the same time from the same person. Hers has worked perfect from day one. Mine is a whole different story. First it was the thermostat. Then the ballcock in the thank keeps having to be replaced. Never really heated up stairs reds as good as down stairs reds. I av 12 radiators.3 are tiny and the rest are normal sized. Now after the summer the first time lighting it down stairs was nice n warm n up stairs is freeeeeezing. Rads are not heating at all what so ever. U can hear the water bubbling going up the pipes but then the over flow goes mad, the attic fills of steam n the water in the tiny tank is bubbling and over flowing n socking threw the bed room ceiling. There was no water in the tank the other night. Now the water that is in the tank is black dirty looking water. Can any help or she'd light on what this could possible be. Will need to get it sorted


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## Leo

Jadealan said:


> Then the ballcock in the thank keeps having to be replaced.



That would be very unusual. Ballcocks don't wear out that quickly!



Jadealan said:


> Never really heated up stairs reds as good as down stairs reds. I av 12 radiators.3 are tiny and the rest are normal sized.



Did this stove replace another heating source? If so, did the previous source heat all rads effectively and evenly?

Was the system ever properly balanced after the installation of the stove?



Jadealan said:


> U can hear the water bubbling going up the pipes but then the over flow goes mad, the attic fills of steam n the water in the tiny tank is bubbling and over flowing n socking threw the bed room ceiling. There was no water in the tank the other night. Now the water that is in the tank is black dirty looking water.



Multiple problems there. You obviously have a lot of air in the system, have you tried bleeding it? The tank in the attic should also have an overflow outlet so that it cannot overflow onto the ceiling. The black water means water from the heating system is being forced out as it heats/expands. 

you have an '' system. That tank in the attic is the feed and expansion tank, it should never be empty, so you need to take a look at in inlet and check the ballcock can move freely and allows water enter from the mains. If water isn't flowing, then you need to check the feed, perhaps the water pressure isn't high enough to effectively feed the tank at that height.



Jadealan said:


> Can any help or she'd light on what this could possible be. Will need to get it sorted



1. Sort out the tank in the attic, ensure that is being fed correctly, and has an outlet that will direct overflow outside
2. While cold, bleed the system at all rads (monitor the attic tank to ensure the air you belled is being replaced with water)
3. Balance the system fully as per the guide above

If all that fails, get a competent plumber out to look at it. There may be issues with the pump being under-spec'd or poor pipe layout resulting in airlocks. Modifying to a pressurised system may alleviate the latter issue.


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