# Household Charge - Living abroad



## TwoWheels (5 Jan 2012)

I own a mortgaged house in Ireland, It is my and my families home.
I am currently living abroad (Outside the EU) 
The house is not rented out, it is vacant, friends and family check on it for me.
I pay the mortgage through my Irish bank account.

Where do I stand on the household charge?


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## horusd (5 Jan 2012)

You have to pay it unless you qualify for one of the few waivers. See https://www.householdcharge.ie/


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## Bronte (5 Jan 2012)

You also have to pay the NPPR and there are big penalties on that for late payment.


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## TwoWheels (5 Jan 2012)

Bronte said:


> You also have to pay the NPPR and there are big penalties on that for late payment.


 
Really?
It is my PPR when I am in Ireland, As I said, it is not rented etc.
How would it be classed as a NPPR if I have not registered it as such?
Thanks.


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## PaddyBloggit (5 Jan 2012)

Because it is not your PPR now .... 

Pay the NPPR on time or you'll incur massive fines which will end up attached to the property (and you eventually).

Every loophole is being closed/tightened so cover yourself.

Read https://www.nppr.ie/ for more info.


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## Bronte (6 Jan 2012)

TwoWheels said:


> Really?
> It is my PPR when I am in Ireland, As I said, it is not rented etc.
> How would it be classed as a NPPR if I have not registered it as such?
> Thanks.


 
Yes really, there was a whole debate on AAM with people trying to claim houses that were their PPR (principal private residence) when quite plaintly they were.

They can argue that on here but I wouldn't like to be explaining it to revenue in 10 years time.  

It is your responsibility as a tax payer to know the rules and be compliant.  

NPPR is easily paid on line and the penalties mean it is not worthwhile not to pay.  There is a very nasty sting to that one.


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## T McGibney (6 Jan 2012)

First of all, Revenue don't either collect or administer the NPPR. The OP will need to deal with their local authority on this one.

Secondly, some people in the OP's situation may have an arguable case that their 'home' in Ireland remains their Principal Private Residence even when they are temporarily abroad. 

I would suggest that the OP should invest in appropriate legal and/or technical tax advice on this topic if they haven't already paid the NPPR or intend not doing so in the future.


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## Bronte (6 Jan 2012)

You are correct I forgot it's the local authority. In that regard OP should take note of the fact that some local authorities are hiring debt collectors.

And it would probably be cheaper to pay the NPPR than get legal advice on the intricacies of the definitions of NPPR.


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## ajapale (5 Mar 2012)

Some Freeman nonsense moved


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## csirl (5 Mar 2012)

T McGibney said:


> First of all, Revenue don't either collect or administer the NPPR. The OP will need to deal with their local authority on this one.
> 
> Secondly, some people in the OP's situation may have an arguable case that their 'home' in Ireland remains their Principal Private Residence even when they are temporarily abroad.
> 
> I would suggest that the OP should invest in appropriate legal and/or technical tax advice on this topic if they haven't already paid the NPPR or intend not doing so in the future.


 
Your PPR in any given year is the place where you overnight more than 50% of the time. If you overnight in a number of places with none >50%, then it is the place where you spent the most time.

If you are abroad for most of the year, then you cannot have a PPR in Ireland during that year.


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## T McGibney (5 Mar 2012)

csirl said:


> Your PPR in any given year is the place where you overnight more than 50% of the time. If you overnight in a number of places with none >50%, then it is the place where you spent the most time.
> 
> If you are abroad for most of the year, then you cannot have a PPR in Ireland during that year.



Thanks for the clarification points. Have you any sources (legislation or case law) to support them? In the absence of quoted, reliable sources, I would be inclined to stand by my earlier advice above.


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## widescreen (19 Mar 2012)

My parents own an apartment in Limerick which they  use for around 3-4  weeks a year on various trips over from the UK. The apartment is not otherwise used or rented to anyone else.

I was going to send them the household charge link and then it dawned on me as to whether or not they may have been paying the NPPR charge or not. They bought the apartment in the late 90's.

They are full time residents of uk now and have not been full time residents of Ireland since the mid eighties.

Can anyone advise if they think they should be paying the NPPR?  I realise for definate they would be eligible for the household charge.

thanks


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## PaddyBloggit (19 Mar 2012)

Yes they are liable for the NPPR as it is not their principal place of residence.

Sort it quickly as the NPPR attracts high penalties which will attach themselves to the property and could result in a very high bill were the property ever to be sold.

Buyer's solicitor will ask if duties etc. are up to date at time of sale and will want proff of same .... e.g. NPPR, Household Charge, a BER cert (although not a charge it will cost to get one!) etc.

NPPR: https://www.nppr.ie/

*From the site:*

_If I live abroad and own a residential property in Ireland am I liable for the NPPR Charge?

Yes.  If you own a residential property in Ireland but do not live there as your sole/main residence you are liable to pay the €200 NPPR Charge._


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## ajapale (19 Mar 2012)

Its probably more accurate to call it the "_*precursor property tax*_".

If you own property abroad I imagine you are liable to pay the local property taxes whether or not you choose to actually live in the property.


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## widescreen (19 Mar 2012)

PaddyBloggit said:


> Yes they are liable for the NPPR as it is not their principal place of residence.
> 
> Sort it quickly as the NPPR attracts high penalties which will attach themselves to the property and could result in a very high bill were the property ever to be sold.
> 
> ...



That is surprising in a way. At the end of the day it is their principal and only residence in Ireland!

I will give them the info and let them decide whether to join the minority and pay!

I actually don't know anyone who is going to pay this. Friend of mine has seven rental properties and he wont be paying a bean. Apparently there are major grey areas relating to legality of this charge.

Definately no point in paying this in any major hurry I think.


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## PaddyBloggit (19 Mar 2012)

The NPPR charge doesn't differentiate between home or abroad with regard to the location of the principal residence.

The NPPR is an established tax and is based on self-declaration.

If your parents decide not to pay it nothing will happen in the short-term but long-term the charge and related penalties will attach themselves to the property.

I have paid the NPPR. I know others who have also paid it. Your friend with the seven rental properties will end up with a hefty bill when he is finally caught.

It's a charge that can't be avoided.

Likewise, the Household Charge can't be avoided in its current state .... we have to pay it by due date or take the risk of attracting penalties etc.

You say: "Definately no point in paying this in any major hurry I think."

.... there is ... the NPPR has been in place since 2009 ..... penalties acrue by the month so it's costly to ignore it.


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## Bronte (20 Mar 2012)

widescreen said:


> . Friend of mine has seven rental properties and he wont be paying a bean. Apparently there are major grey areas relating to legality of this charge.
> 
> .


 
Imagine a professional landlord is not going to pay it.  And his reasoning is that there are grey areas in the law.  Does he have an accountant who has confirmed this.

No doubt he hasn't paid the NPPR either.  But in 5 or 10 years time he'll be owing a very large sum indeed.  And grey areas of the law are unlikely to be of help to him.  

If however you can point out a legal source that clarifes that this charge is illegal I too will not pay.


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## 44brendan (20 Mar 2012)

> I actually don't know anyone who is going to pay this. Friend of mine has seven rental properties and he wont be paying a bean. Apparently there are major grey areas relating to legality of this charge.


This is really folly of the worst kind. We (the Bank) have been involved in a number of recent property sales where the NPPR was unpaid. The sale transaction cannot be completed until the full amount, including all penalties has been paid. 
This appears to be a prime example of someone who thinks that the best legal advice can be obtained over a pint in the pub


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## widescreen (20 Mar 2012)

PaddyBloggit said:


> The NPPR charge doesn't differentiate between home or abroad with regard to the location of the principal residence.
> 
> The NPPR is an established tax and is based on self-declaration.
> 
> ...



I paid the NPPR on a property I have (wish I hadnt though) but deffo not paying this household charge ( like the other 70% of population). too many people out there who would just pay any charge imposed by government despite no logic at all to the charge... government are just thinking it up as they go along... thats why we get no bills for these charges , because they expect us to just pay up.... well they are going to get a shock by the end of next week when the % who pay is announced..(well hopefully , they will let RTE give out the right figure!!


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## ajapale (21 Mar 2012)

Topic reminder. Household Charge - Living abroad


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