# Sewer damaged by extension



## csirl (13 Sep 2011)

Elderly relative's house has a strong smell of sewage in the back garden and the waste outlet frequently backs up and has done so for a number of years. 

Had a friend who's a contractor look at it to get an idea whats happening. He also spoke to some of the neighbours and said the following:

House is in a row of 8 houses which have a shared waste pipe running through all their back gardens. This shared waste pipe connects to the mains sewer at the end of the row of houses. 

One of the houses in the row appears to have a kitchen extension built over the waste pipe - this extension appears to have subsided/settled. He suspects that it has damaged the waste pipe below. 

He spoke to 3-4 of the neighbours. This problem seems to coincide with the building of the aforementioned extension. In the past the neighbours have arranged for Dyno Rod etc. to rod the sewers regularly, however, some of the neighbours refused to pay the shared cost and the incidents of sewage backing up are getting more frequent. He went down to talk to person with the extension - this person had an 'I'm alright jack' attitude and didnt want to know - said their back yard is full concreted over, so they've no manholes (hence never get sewage backing up).

A number of the neighbours have complained to the local council, but have generally be palmed off - told that its a private sewer collectively owned by all of them, so not the councils problem.

My friend, the contractor reckons that this problem can probably only be fixed by repairing the pipe under the extension and doing some significant work to the extension floor/foundations. Problem is that the person concerned has no interest in cooperating or rectifying. 

Any ideas how to solve this?


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## onq (13 Sep 2011)

I was advised on what sounds like a similar incident some years ago on behalf of a client whose neighbour had built over part of a sewer.
I think my client had no option but to threaten legal on the offender action using competent professionals.

ONQ.

[broken link removed]

All advice on AAM is remote from the situation and cannot be relied upon                         as a defence or support - in and of itself -    should       legal        action    be      taken.
Competent legal and building professionals should be asked to advise in                         Real Life with rights to inspect and issue  reports    on     the         matters    at      hand.


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## hastalavista (13 Sep 2011)

its not clear from the post but I assume elderly rel is upstream of the extension.

As suggested this will need some mula and some advice.
Approach is to get a CCTV recording of the sewer, complete with measurements so it can be shown that the sewer pipe is damaged under the extension.

Then issue legal proceedings against LA and the neighbour.


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## Docarch (15 Sep 2011)

The drain/sewer pipe could possibly be repaired using 'Trenchless Technology', i.e. without digging up floors, knocking down extensions, digging up gardens, etc., etc. 

There are a number of companies who specialise in this. The pipe is basically re-lined with a fibreglass liner that is compressed around the inside of the existing pipe. Any protrusions into the existing pipe, such as roots or broken sections of pipe, etc., are removed first with specialised cutting equipment passed along the pipe prior to lining. 

The cost of doing this _may_ be relatively inexpensive - and may well be less than the cost of paying the legal eagles to take proceedings!. 

If the drain/sewer is in fact private, then the Local Authority really has no responsibility and taking action against them, really is on a path to nowhere.  The matter is a civil matter bewteen all the houses the pipe serves. 

As suggested above, first get a CCTV survey to see where the problem is (and who may be responsible for causing the damage), then I would suggest getting a quote for the repair of the pipe (by the means of the 'Trenchless Technology' as I outlined above) and pass the CCTV evidence and quote for repair on to the person who damaged the pipe asking them to take action/undertake the repair. 

If they decide that it's not their problem and/or they will not take action, well then maybe first a simple solicitors letter should follow explaining the principles of tresspass!  By damaging the drain/sewer pipe, they are tresspassing on the property of all the houses the drain/sewer pipe serves as the entire drain/sewer pipe is co-owned by all the properties (same principle as a party wall - it mutually exclusive).


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## onq (16 Sep 2011)

I would suggest that all of the civil work above be done under the governance of an engineer who is chartered and competent to inspect the work, swear an affidavit and testify in court.
Otherwise you could be "trumped" in court by the other side wading in with a professional.

Also all affected parties should be seen to be in agreement for a similar reason.
Nothing like having a rogue neighbour appear supporting the defendant.

ONQ

[broken link removed]

All advice on AAM is remote from the situation and cannot be relied upon                          as a defence or support - in and of itself -     should       legal        action    be      taken.
Competent legal and building professionals should be asked to advise in                          Real Life with rights to inspect and issue   reports    on     the         matters    at      hand.


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## onq (16 Sep 2011)

You might need someone else to swear a statement in relation to the planning issues involved and maybe a third party to perform a survey of the drain and properties affected.

Having assembled your team and asked for fee quotations for the foreseeable work, including your legal advisors, your solicitor could write to the offender and suggest this kind of Bill is what he may end up paying if he doesn't play ball and this goes to court. Tends to sharpen their minds I find.


ONQ

[broken link removed]

All advice on AAM is remote from the situation and cannot be relied upon                           as a defence or support - in and of itself -      should       legal        action    be      taken.
Competent legal and building professionals should be asked to advise in                           Real Life with rights to inspect and issue    reports    on     the         matters    at      hand.


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## csirl (22 Nov 2011)

Here's an update.

Relative reported the issue to the environment/pollution enforcement part of council as a public health pollution issue.

Council sent someone to inspect and they determined the exact no. of houses on the line by putting  dye down and monitoring. The Council has now written to each householder advising that they are in breach of various environment/public health laws and that a CCTV survey must be done to find out the problem and get it fixed.

Most of the neighbours are contributing he cost of the CCTV - letter from council talking about proceedings against them was a great help.

The expected outcome is that the survey will pinpoint that a neighbours extension, which was built without planning permission (and not exempt) is the problem. That person will be forced to rectify the problem on threat of legal action and prosecution.


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## threebedsemi (22 Nov 2011)

good news csirl,
it is amazing the amount of housing schemes which were constructed in the past ten years which have 'public' common sewers running through their back gardens. That any of these recieved planning permission was always amazing to me.
All public services should be run through public open areas or under public footpaths or roads. Im surprised that there isnt a raft of similar complaints to yours at the moment, but perhaps its only a matter of time......


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## onq (22 Nov 2011)

@ ,

Well done on the result at the price of getting everyone's head in the noose.
Interesting to think that the Council would intervene on a matter of a public health pollution issue on private sites.
They tend to back off dealing with it when its presented to them purely as a drainage and flooding issue.

@ ,

Going under the house out the front is a big cost factor, especially where the housing is high density and effectively terraced.
The real problem is that the drain is seldom placed far enough out to avoid passing over the sewer, but as a private drain its not against the law.

The CCTV survey will not tell the whole story, as the subsidence could be caused by several factors some of which may relate to last years' frost, possibly related to a damaged drain.
I'd say its too much to hope that an engineer was called out to inspect the footings before closing up, to ensure that the drain was protected and bridged over - if that had happened, there might be no problem.


ONQ

[broken link removed]

All advice on AAM is remote from the situation and cannot be relied upon                            as a defence or support - in and of itself -       should       legal        action    be      taken.
Competent legal and building professionals should be asked to advise in                            Real Life with rights to inspect and issue     reports    on     the         matters    at      hand.


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## BICIP (23 Nov 2011)

threebedsemi said:


> good news csirl,
> it is amazing the amount of housing schemes which were constructed in the past ten years which have 'public' common sewers running through their back gardens. That any of these recieved planning permission was always amazing to me.
> All public services should be run through public open areas or under public footpaths or roads. Im surprised that there isnt a raft of similar complaints to yours at the moment, but perhaps its only a matter of time......


 

private drains for up to 8 houses have been in existence since god was a boy (and comply with building regs).....there's no issue as long as designers and builders are cognisant of their existence and take measures to protect when bdesigning and bulding extensions


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