# Clarification on Irish State Pension



## mct1 (7 Jan 2014)

I've read and re-read the Pensions Board rules on calculating my pension, but between the "and"s and the "or"s I can't work out whether I have full credits for Contributory Pension or not. My accountant and my pension advisor are equally stumped so I hope someone here can help!

The facts: I have a full basic contributory pension from the UK since 2012. I paid 10 years extra NI contributions to get this and I claimed it, of course, via the Irish State Pension service.

After I wind up my (self-employed) business this year, I will have 18 yrs x 52 paid contributions here 1997-2015. Is this enough to claim the maximum Irish State Pension? I realise that wouldn't be 100% as I have a UK pension, but I read a figure of 98% somewhere. 

I ask because I need to know roughly how much I will have to live on in 3 years time. And also whether I need to continue paying contributions which I could do if necessary as a (currently unpaid) director of my husband's company.

Any clarification would be much appreciated, thanks.


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## Gerry Canning (7 Jan 2014)

MCT 1. 
.........

I thought your uk/Ni Contributary  pension has no effect on your Roi Contributory pension? 
ie . You get your Uk/Ni as of right .(you have paid for it)
ie . You get your Roi as of right.(you have paid for it)
Therefore you do get 100% of your contributory pension from both jurisdictions as these are not means tested but solely a pay out on what you paid.
...........................
From checking against my own position. If you have paid 18 years full contributions in Roi you will get very close to full 100% of your Roi pension.
...................
In conclusion.
You will get basic Uk Pension. @ (i don,t know)
You will get near full Ir pension @ circa ? 
.......................................................
I am fairly sure I am correct on the above .If not PLEASE advise.


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## mct1 (7 Jan 2014)

Sahd, I will be 63 in May.

Gerry, you say "If you have paid 18 years full contributions in Roi you will get very close to full 100% of your Roi pension." So would you know exactly how many years full contributions I need for full Irish Pension? As I said, I could pay for another couple of years if that meant I would qualify for the full whack. But obviously I don't want to do that if there's no gain.

Re the 98%, I read that on here some time back. But 2% isn't significant really.


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## Gervan (7 Jan 2014)

The Irish State Pension is worked out on average contributions paid. If you started paying into the Irish system in 1997, and have full contributions each year, you should qualify for a full state pension here (as well as the UK one). 

You have to have at least 520 contributions paid, which you have, and at least 260 of those compulsory, not voluntary. As you couldn't have been paying voluntary contributions to both UK and Ireland at the same time it sounds as though you have at least 97 to 2012 (15 years) compulsory paid.

Currently you have 16 years paid (if you've paid 2013) which is 16 x 52 = 832 contributions. If you stop now, that will be an average of 46.2 over the 18 years.
If you want a full Irish pension, do not stop paying Prsi yet. 

To put numbers to it, two more years of voluntary Prsi is €1000. The difference in pension if over 48 average is €4.50 a week, so you'd gain €234 per year extra. If you draw the pension for more than 4 years you are gaining the extra for life.


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## mct1 (7 Jan 2014)

Gervan said:


> The Irish State Pension is worked out on average contributions paid. If you started paying into the Irish system in 1997, and have full contributions each year, you should qualify for a full state pension here (as well as the UK one).
> 
> You have to have at least 520 contributions paid, which you have, and at least 260 of those compulsory, not voluntary. As you couldn't have been paying voluntary contributions to both UK and Ireland at the same time it sounds as though you have at least 97 to 2012 (15 years) compulsory paid.



That's correct. In fact I have 16 years already paid.



Gervan said:


> Currently you have 16 years paid (if you've paid 2013) which is 16 x 52 = 832 contributions. If you stop now, that will be an average of 46.2 over the 18 years.
> If you want a full Irish pension, do not stop paying Prsi yet.



By my calculations (on the basis of my social insurance record), I have 17 x 52 paid including 2013 (which I haven't paid yet but inevitably will) and there'll be another due anyway for 2014, which makes 18 years. Is that an average of 52 then, or am I misunderstanding the method of calculation.

When you did your calculation, I'm just wondering why did you use 18 to calculate the average? What decides the value of the denominator? That's something I'm still confused over. If say I'd worked just 10 years x 52 per year, what would the average be then?


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## pudds (7 Jan 2014)

> I have 17 x 52 paid including 2013 (which I haven't paid yet but  inevitably will) and there'll be another due anyway for 2014, which  makes 18 years. Is that an average of 52 then, or am I misunderstanding  the method of calculation.



thats correct based on 18yrs but.





> *How do I calculate my ‘Yearly Average’?*
> 
> Count your number of contribution years, beginning with *the year you  first started paying social insurance* *up to and including the last full  contribution year before you reach age 66. * Call this ‘_Total Contribution Years_’.


I might be wrong but I think this is whats key here, I don't think just taking 18yrs of paid contributions on their own is a correct way to calculate entitlement.

OP what year did you first start working in this country.


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## mct1 (7 Jan 2014)

Pudds:
I arrived here from UK in 1996, and started work here later that year. I'm not sure why there are no PRSI contributions for the first year - will have to look into that. I think I might have been listed under husband's PRSI number for a while. 

Anyway, I have 52 contributions listed for every year since then.


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## Black Sheep (7 Jan 2014)

As you will be pension age in 2017 your total number of contributions will be divided by 20 to get the yearly average. (From '97 when you started paying to 2016 which is the last tax year before pension application) 

It may be a good idea to consult the Pension office for clarification


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## mct1 (8 Jan 2014)

Right - thanks. Does that mean if I'd started work here in 2007 and paid 52 stamps a year until 2017 (10/10 years) I'd be entitled to a full pension, whereas if I arrived in 1997 and paid 52 a year until 2014 (17/20 years) I wouldn't? That seems unfair, but I'm just trying to understand the basic logic of the calculations.

I did contact the Dept of Social Protection about my pension a while back but all they were prepared to do was send me my PRSI record and refer me to the (to me, incomprehensible) calculations table. I do find it annoying when Brits who come to live here whinge on about how much better everything is in the UK, but I have to say that in contrast the Pensions people in Newcastle could not have been more helpful.

 Anyway, thanks everyone for your help and advice. I understand the calculation much better now. It looks like I'll need one more year of PRSI after this one - so 2014, then 2015 - to give me an average of over 48 and a full state pension.


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## Joe_90 (8 Jan 2014)

There is an example near the bottom of this article does this help.

http://www.finfacts.ie/fincentre/statepensions.htm


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## mct1 (8 Jan 2014)

Thanks Joe90.


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## Tentman (21 Jan 2014)

mct1 said:


> Right - thanks. Does that mean if I'd started work here in 2007 and paid 52 stamps a year until 2017 (10/10 years) I'd be entitled to a full pension, whereas if I arrived in 1997 and paid 52 a year until 2014 (17/20 years) I wouldn't? That seems unfair, but I'm just trying to understand the basic logic of the calculations.
> 
> I did contact the Dept of Social Protection about my pension a while back but all they were prepared to do was send me my PRSI record and refer me to the (to me, incomprehensible) calculations table. I do find it annoying when Brits who come to live here whinge on about how much better everything is in the UK, but I have to say that in contrast the Pensions people in Newcastle could not have been more helpful.
> 
> Anyway, thanks everyone for your help and advice. I understand the calculation much better now. It looks like I'll need one more year of PRSI after this one - so 2014, then 2015 - to give me an average of over 48 and a full state pension.



If you worked only 10yrs, that would give you an entitlement to a minimum contributory pension only. To get a full pension you must have a minimum of 48 contributions per year. If your average pension contributions work out at a lower average, the you will get less than the maximum pension. Have a look here:http://www.welfare.ie/en/Pages/State-Pension-Contributory.aspx. This gives a breakdown of what you can expect.


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