# Can tenants attend and vote at Management Company AGM?



## Jim Davis (17 Jul 2008)

I've been renting an apartment in D8 for the past 2 years and have just signed a lease for my 3 year.  During this time I have found the Management Company to be very poor for the following reasons.

1.  My car was broken into on two seperate occasions.  On both occasions I informed the management company and they ignored my letters.
2.  Refuse and waste is not being removed from waste areas e.g. furniture, beds etc.
3.  Recycling is not being removed and is being left for months at a time.
4.  Cars parking in spaces that dont belong them.
5.  Anti social behaviour by some tenants
6.  General litter in common areas and car park
7.  Green area has not been maintained once since I moved in

I understand that some of these issues are ladlords responsibility but does anyone know what my recourse is in relation to the management company and if a tenant can attend and vote at the AGM?


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## ClubMan (17 Jul 2008)

*Re: Can Tenants Attend AGM?*



Jim Davis said:


> I understand that some of these issues are ladlords responsibility but does anyone know what my recourse is in relation to the management company and if a tenant can attend and vote at the AGM?


No. Only property owners who are members/shareholders can attend and vote.


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## Yorrick (17 Jul 2008)

*Re: Can Tenants Attend AGM?*

When apartments are sold the owners form a Management Company and decide whether they will manage the complex themselves or hand over to a Managing Agent to run.  Each Apartment has a vote
If it is the A.G.M. of the Management Company you have no right to attend or vote.

However some complexes have a Residents Association which is used to bring matters of conern to the Management Company and Agent.
If you have joined this then of course you can attend the Residents Association A.G.M. 

The problems which you have outlined indicate that there is poor management be it by the Company or the Agent. Your landlord should do something about it.


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## dem_syhp (17 Jul 2008)

*Re: Can Tenants Attend AGM?*

Very often the land lords don't bother attending the AGM - unless they think that their pocket is going to be hit.  And then will be against things on a purely financial basis forgetting that a well cared for complex is actually in the interest of their property also.  

It can be difficult to get owners to become directors.  The agents themselves vary greatly in quality/responsiveness/etc...

Your best bet is to work/lobby with neighbours that are owners see if they can make a difference.  It's going to be directly impacting them and the value of their property if the place is scruffy.


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## mathepac (17 Jul 2008)

*Re: Can Tenants Attend AGM?*

@Jim Davis, it sounds like the apartment suits you in terms of location, otherwise you would probably have moved with all the hassels you are having.

What does your landlord have to say about all of this, as ultimately it is his / her responsibility to sort this out through either the management company or their agents?


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## Jim Davis (17 Jul 2008)

*Re: Can Tenants Attend AGM?*

The ladlord is very responsive but has difficulty trying to get anything out of the management company.


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## ClubMan (17 Jul 2008)

*Re: Can Tenants Attend AGM?*



Jim Davis said:


> The ladlord is very responsive but has difficulty trying to get anything out of the management company.


Well he is presumably a member/shareholder so is better placed to influence matters than the tenant.


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## shesells (17 Jul 2008)

*Re: Can Tenants Attend AGM?*

Sounds to me that once again this is a management AGENT issue more than a management COMPANY. The agent is responsible for the day to day running of the development on behalf of the company.

Regarding AGMs, perhaps if your landlord doesn't plan to attend they can give you their proxy? This would entitle you to attend the AGM and vote as a representative of your landlord. Of course this is at the discretion of your landlord but if you don't ask you don't get.


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## ClubMan (17 Jul 2008)

*Re: Can Tenants Attend AGM?*

Ah - never thought of the possibility of a proxy option! And your comment about agent versus company is well made and a common point of confusion for people on this sort of issue.


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## Complainer (18 Jul 2008)

*Re: Can Tenants Attend AGM?*



shesells said:


> Regarding AGMs, perhaps if your landlord doesn't plan to attend they can give you their proxy? This would entitle you to attend the AGM and vote as a representative of your landlord. Of course this is at the discretion of your landlord but if you don't ask you don't get.



Interesting option. I guess most landlords would be reluctant to do this, as the tenants best interests may not coincide with the landlords interests, depending on who pays the management fee, and how much of the fee is a contribution to the sinking fund.

Perhaps in the current market, tenants could try insisting on this right as a condition of the lease?


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## shesells (19 Jul 2008)

*Re: Can Tenants Attend AGM?*

As an owner occupier I would object 100% to such a move. The landlord is legally responsible for their unit in the development. No tenant should have an automatic right to have a say on the future of the development.


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## Complainer (19 Jul 2008)

*Re: Can Tenants Attend AGM?*



shesells said:


> As an owner occupier I would object 100% to such a move. The landlord is legally responsible for their unit in the development. No tenant should have an automatic right to have a say on the future of the development.


You may find that some tenants have more interest in the future of a development than some owner occupiers, particularly those that view their apartment as a step on the road to a larger property.


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## shesells (20 Jul 2008)

*Re: Can Tenants Attend AGM?*



Complainer said:


> You may find that some tenants have more interest in the future of a development than some owner occupiers, particularly those that view their apartment as a step on the road to a larger property.


IME owner occupiers are those hit in the pocket most by management companies so they should care most.  I
Not always but the theory is right. tenants don't pay management fees and they are tax deductible for landlords so OO have the most to lose.


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## Complainer (20 Jul 2008)

*Re: Can Tenants Attend AGM?*



shesells said:


> IME owner occupiers are those hit in the pocket most by management companies so they should care most.  I
> Not always but the theory is right. tenants don't pay management fees and they are tax deductible for landlords so OO have the most to lose.



While the landlords are generally the direct payer of the management fee, aren't these effectively passed over to tenant to pay via the rent?


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## shesells (20 Jul 2008)

*Re: Can Tenants Attend AGM?*

Depends on the landlord I suppose. But if it's built into the rent and not a separate charge does the tenant know?


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## Complainer (20 Jul 2008)

*Re: Can Tenants Attend AGM?*



shesells said:


> But if it's built into the rent and not a separate charge does the tenant know?


If their IQ is over 75, then yes, it's a safe bet that the tenant has worked this out.


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## shesells (20 Jul 2008)

*Re: Can Tenants Attend AGM?*

I was referring to the specifics. Tenants don't know how much the management fee is for their unit. Rents are calculated at market rate, area by area. 

Going back to the previous issue, I don't see why tenants should think themselves entitled to proxies for AGMs. Like I said, there's no harm in asking if a tenant is being serious like the OP here, but the idea that random tenants could determine the future of my home and investment as a rule is crazy!


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## Bubbly Scot (20 Jul 2008)

*Re: Can Tenants Attend AGM?*



shesells said:


> Going back to the previous issue, I don't see why tenants should think themselves entitled to proxies for AGMs. Like I said, there's no harm in asking if a tenant is being serious like the OP here, but the idea that random tenants could determine the future of my home and investment as a rule is crazy!


 
Technically, a tenant could have a vote. When you, the owner, get notice of an AGM/EGM it should come with a proxy form. Should you chose to, you can nominate someone to attend and vote on your behalf. This could be the tenant if you chose. It's not something I've seen happen very often and at times takes careful handling because, as you've said, some owners are not happy with tenants having a vote.

You're delving into the guts of your Management Company Mems and Arts. when you get into that and your regular owner usually doesn't have much of a grasp of that (but I know you do )


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## shesells (20 Jul 2008)

Thanks Bubbly!!

I did bring up the proxy above as a possibility as it is definitely possible. What I was objecting to here was the suggestion that tenants should demand the rights to proxies when renting an apartment because of the current rental market.


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## Bubbly Scot (20 Jul 2008)

No worries, was just hoping to add some clarity to the muddy waters. I know you know all this but it seemed a good time to point it out to those who don't.


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## rabbits (21 Jul 2008)

*Re: Can Tenants Attend AGM?*



shesells said:


> tenants don't pay management fees and they are tax deductible for landlords so OO have the most to lose.


 
Management fees are tax deductible?  I didn't know that.....is there a link to somewhere I can find out about this?


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## ClubMan (21 Jul 2008)

*Re: Can Tenants Attend AGM?*



shesells said:


> IME owner occupiers are those hit in the pocket most by management companies so they should care most.  I
> Not always but the theory is right. tenants don't pay management fees and they are tax deductible for landlords so OO have the most to lose.


Any portion of management fees attributable to service charges may qualify for tax relief for owner occupiers. See previous threads on this issue.


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## shesells (21 Jul 2008)

That equates to about €40 for OO but better in out pockets I guess. Management fees are a property expense and are 100% tax deductible for landlords according to our accountant.


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