# SF rating higher than FF in poll



## Caveat (3 Dec 2010)

Can't remember the poll but it was SF 16% against FF 13%.

We don't want incompetent liars and cronyists to lead the country so instead opt for the hard left political wing of bombers and killers.

God help us.


----------



## TarfHead (3 Dec 2010)

I think what we need is for SF to go into coalition with Fianna Fail.
That should be the end of them


----------



## Vanilla (3 Dec 2010)

Indeed. Seems Sinn Fein are successfully making the transition to main stream politics.

Time to bring back the PDs and give the Greens a second chance, maybe?


----------



## fizzelina (3 Dec 2010)

Imagine Gerry Adams as a potential Minister?? A sad day for those with family who died during the Troubles IMO.


----------



## Yorrick (3 Dec 2010)

I am sure their brand of North Korean economics will lead to prosperity


----------



## Shawady (3 Dec 2010)

It is unlikely that the 16% would be directly result in more seats than FF's 13%, but if it did Gerry Adams would be leader of the opposition in the next parliment.


----------



## missdaisy (3 Dec 2010)

Shawady said:


> if it did Gerry Adams would be leader of the opposition in the next parliment.


 
Stop, you'll give me nightmares!


----------



## z107 (3 Dec 2010)

Don't both FF and FG have their roots from the civil war? People died there too.

SF seem to be the only party worth voting for right now. I'd rather Gerry Adams than the two brians.


----------



## starlite68 (3 Dec 2010)

Caveat said:


> Can't remember the poll but it was SF 16% against FF 13%.
> 
> We don't want incompetent liars and cronyists to lead the country so instead opt for the hard left political wing of bombers and killers.
> 
> God help us.


 lets face it, they cant be any worse than the numbskulls thats selling us out at the moment!


----------



## TarfHead (3 Dec 2010)

umop3p!sdn said:


> SF seem to be the only party worth voting for right now . I'd rather Gerry Adams than the two brians.


 
Fixed that for ya !


----------



## Deas (3 Dec 2010)

Sinn Fein are more used to taking money out of banks than putting it in.  I just can't imagine them in charge of finance and justice ministeries.  Just look at the performance of Aengus O'Snodaigh outside the Dail last week.  Embarrasing.


----------



## shnaek (3 Dec 2010)

starlite68 said:


> lets face it, they cant be any worse than the numbskulls thats selling us out at the moment!



You'd be surprised...


----------



## starlite68 (3 Dec 2010)

shnaek said:


> You'd be surprised...


 indeed i would......very surprised!


----------



## liaconn (3 Dec 2010)

starlite68 said:


> lets face it, they cant be any worse than the numbskulls thats selling us out at the moment!


 
FF are a crowd of corrupt, incompetent, arrogant, parish pumping sleveens and it would be hard to find a political party worse than them. But SF have managed that difficult task. I cannot  believe that anyone, knowing their history of support for violence and murder would say they're no worse than Fianna Fail. Unfortunately, though, that attitude will probably result in some of that shower getting seats in the next election. People who vote for them should be really ashamed of themselves.


----------



## starlite68 (3 Dec 2010)

the real murderers are the present government, they are killing any chance this country and its young people will ever have for years to come!


----------



## The_Banker (3 Dec 2010)

Caveat said:


> Can't remember the poll but it was SF 16% against FF 13%.
> 
> We don't want incompetent liars and cronyists to lead the country so instead *opt for the hard left political wing of bombers and killers*.
> 
> God help us.


 

In the early 1930s Fianna Fail were hard left and contained bombers and killers. Remember they brought pistols into the Dail when they first took government. 
DeValera said in 1921/2 during the treaty debates that he would get a Republic even if he had to wad through blood. In the 1930s DeValera cut the cord with many of the hardliners and became 100% democratic.

Sinn Fein are now following a similar path. They still have the Celtic jersey wearing thug followers but the armani suit wearers are more to the fore.

Don't be surprised if there is a further split a few years down the road within Sinn Fein where the split will occur because of the economic policies rather than the 'national' question.


----------



## Time (6 Dec 2010)

SF are the party of the underclasses. And with the underclasses becoming even more underclass under FF it is no surprise that they have seen a boost in recent polls.


----------



## PaddyW (6 Dec 2010)

liaconn said:


> FF are a crowd of corrupt, incompetent, arrogant, parish pumping sleveens and it would be hard to find a political party worse than them. But SF have managed that difficult task. I cannot  believe that anyone, knowing their history of support for violence and murder would say they're no worse than Fianna Fail. Unfortunately, though, that attitude will probably result in some of that shower getting seats in the next election. People who vote for them should be really ashamed of themselves.



Can you blame people for leaning this way, when the present government is nothing but a pack of thieves, liars and grabbers. Sinn Fein do indeed have a history of support for violence and murder, but sure haven't the fellas there at the moment committed one of the greatest crimes of all time and murdered our country! Some people are saying that anyone who voted for Fianna Fail in the last 15 years should be ashamed of themselves, also. I don't think that what you, I or anyone else thinks of it, will sway them away from their views right now in voting for Sinn Fein.

And no, I'm not a Sinn Fein supporter!


----------



## Shawady (6 Dec 2010)

Time said:


> SF are the party of the underclasses.


 
When there was flooding in Ringsend a couple of years ago I believe the local SF counciller was up to his knees in the water helping people whose houses had flooded. Maybe this type of 'on the ground work' will result in SF becoming more popular in traditional working class areas.


----------



## TarfHead (6 Dec 2010)

Shawady said:


> Maybe this type of 'on the ground work' will result in SF becoming more popular in traditional working class areas.


 
I see how SF can be effective at local level. If you had a problem with anti-social behaviour, then a word from a SF councillor would, I assume, be more persuasive that the same intervention from a FF/FG/LAB councillor.

The problem arises when those councillors get elected to the Dail. Then people like Aongus O'Snodaigh and Arthur Morgan are in Leinster House, leaving the village with a vacancy.


----------



## Caveat (6 Dec 2010)

BUT increasingly there is the more urbane, articulate shinner, equally as hardworking - and maybe more importanlty, without "previous".

Caomhín O'Caoláin would be an example.


----------



## Westie123 (6 Dec 2010)

I think a lot of the reason for the rise in SF popularity is the lack of leadership on the part of FG and LAB on the issue of default on the bank debt. There is no doubt that the Irish nation cannot pay back this private debt. If someone soon doesn't decouple the national and the private bank debt we are going to be stripped of what remaining assets we have and we will be sunk.


----------



## delgirl (6 Dec 2010)

People shouldn't forget that according to , Gerry Adams was the person responsible for ordering the murder of Jean McConville, mother of 10 children.

Is it a concidence that he plans to run for election in Louth where she was callously murdered and buried?  Maybe he's just decided to dance on her grave.


----------



## lightswitch (7 Dec 2010)

delgirl said:


> People shouldn't forget that according to , Gerry Adams was the person responsible for ordering the murder of Jean McConville, mother of 10 children.
> 
> Is it a concidence that he plans to run for election in Louth where she was callously murdered and buried? Maybe he's just decided to dance on her grave.


 
If there had been any real evidence of Adams involvement in this he would have been locked up for a very long time, do you not agree?  He is hardly a popular figure among the political establishment in this Country after all.

I don't have much in the way of opinions on the man either way.  But I do think if they could have made the above stick in any way, they would have.


----------



## Caveat (7 Dec 2010)

delgirl said:


> Is it a concidence that he plans to run for election in Louth where she was callously murdered and buried?


 
Very strong republican tradition in north Louth. He wants to be as sure as he can be, that he will get a seat.


----------



## grahamo (7 Dec 2010)

A lot of apethetic voters who normally wouldn't bother their asses will definitely get out and make sure they vote in the next election and you can bet a lot of these (especially in the working class areas) will be voting sinn fein. It serves the current shower of TD's right. Their nothing but corrupt sleeveens who are completely out of touch.
They have looked after the interests of themselves and their cronies for too long and they have gone too far this time.
Make the most of your last few weeks in power lads!


----------



## pinkyBear (7 Dec 2010)

> People shouldn't forget that according to , Gerry Adams was the person responsible for ordering the murder of Jean McConville, mother of 10 children.
> 
> Is it a concidence that he plans to run for election in Louth where she was callously murdered and buried? Maybe he's just decided to dance on her grave.


 
Delgirl I agree completely with you - Remember Robert Mc Carthy I note in the WIKI that the family have had to relocate due to intimidation...


----------



## Sunny (7 Dec 2010)

Imagine the Daily Mail's response. We give those f****** billions of euro and they go and elect Sinn Fein!


----------



## Complainer (7 Dec 2010)

grahamo said:


> It serves the current shower of TD's right. Their nothing but corrupt sleeveens who are completely out of touch.
> They have looked after the interests of themselves and their cronies for too long and they have gone too far this time.
> Make the most of your last few weeks in power lads!


I find that most people who come out with this 'curse on all your houses' stuff are those who voted FF last time, and are trying to ease their guilt.


----------



## Sunny (7 Dec 2010)

Complainer said:


> I find that most people who come out with this 'curse on all your houses' stuff are those who voted FF last time, and are trying to ease their guilt.


 
Why would anyone feel guilt over who they vote for? I don't get that argument.


----------



## liaconn (7 Dec 2010)

grahamo said:


> A lot of apethetic voters who normally wouldn't bother their asses will definitely get out and make sure they vote in the next election and you can bet a* lot of these (especially in the working class areas) will be voting sinn fein. It serves the current shower of TD's right.* Their nothing but corrupt sleeveens who are completely out of touch.
> They have looked after the interests of themselves and their cronies for too long and they have gone too far this time.
> Make the most of your last few weeks in power lads!


 

Yes, but what about the rest of us? Do you really want to see a party whose name has been synonymous with terrorism and murder having seats in the Dail. I certainly don't, no matter how low my opinion of FF.


----------



## Purple (7 Dec 2010)

Complainer said:


> I find that most people who come out with this 'curse on all your houses' stuff are those who voted FF last time, and are trying to ease their guilt.



I didn't vote for them and I agree with grahamo. I fear the alternative as much as the current shower. It's a choice of mutton heads or mutton heads eila.


----------



## grahamo (7 Dec 2010)

liaconn said:


> Yes, but what about the rest of us? Do you really want to see a party whose name has been synonymous with terrorism and murder having seats in the Dail. I certainly don't, no matter how low my opinion of FF.


fianna fail and fianna gael aren't exactly whiter than white. FF were "allegedly" involved in dodgy dealings involving arms in 1969-1971. Fine Gael evolved in the early 1930's from the fascist National guard. Just like Sinn Fein their politics centre around events that took place in the early 20th century.
I think its time politics in ireland were dragged into the 21st century with new left, right and centre political parties.


----------



## Purple (7 Dec 2010)

grahamo said:


> fianna fail and fianna gael aren't exactly whiter than white. FF were "allegedly" involved in dodgy dealings involving arms in 1969-1971. Fine Gael evolved in the early 1930's from the fascist National guard. Just like Sinn Fein their politics centre around events that took place in the early 20th century.



Yes but SF have strong ties to murderers and other criminals and existing elected members have been in prison for serious crimes.


----------



## Sunny (7 Dec 2010)

Purple said:


> Yes but SF have strong ties to murderers and other criminals and existing elected members have been in prison for serious crimes.


 
And their sitting TD's think nothing about going to meet the killers of Detective Jerry McCabe upon their release. Scum.


----------



## lightswitch (7 Dec 2010)

Purple said:


> Yes but SF have strong ties to murderers and other criminals and existing elected members have been in prison for serious crimes.


 
An FF have strong ties to OTHER serious criminals and existing elected members that have NOT ben in prison for serious crimes 

I'm probably sounding a bit like a SF supporter, which I am not.........or not yet anyway..................


----------



## Purple (7 Dec 2010)

lightswitch said:


> An FF have strong ties to OTHER serious criminals and existing elected members that have NOT ben in prison for serious crimes
> 
> I'm probably sounding a bit like a SF supporter, which I am not.........or not yet anyway..................



FF TD's haven't murdered anyone. Bank robbing and extortion... well, there's a few parallels there I'll admit.


----------



## Firefly (7 Dec 2010)

I can understand why people (particularly those on low/no incomes) would be drawn to SF in times like this - they have no confidence whatsover in the other parties. However, the phrase, "Be careful what you ask for" springs to mind. I would seriously consider emigrating if SF were elected.


----------



## Caveat (7 Dec 2010)

Firefly said:


> I would seriously consider emigrating if SF were elected.


 
I definitely would emigrate.


----------



## lightswitch (7 Dec 2010)

Purple said:


> FF TD's haven't murdered anyone. Bank robbing and extortion... well, there's a few parallels there I'll admit.


 
That's why I left out the reference to murder............mind you I did think about it..........there is more than one way to skin a cat.


----------



## lightswitch (7 Dec 2010)

Firefly said:


> I can understand why people (particularly those on low/no incomes) would be drawn to SF in times like this - they have no confidence whatsover in the other parties. However, the phrase, "Be careful what you ask for" springs to mind. I would seriously consider emigrating if SF were elected.


 
I reckon a lot of us are looking at emigrating either way.  The phrase I think you are refering to is "be careful what you wish for".  A lot of people got what they asked for and more besides.  We will all pay for it now.

Didn't like the Gardai removing the posters from the Cherry Picker outside the Dail today mind you.  Not their job and a poor reflection on them imo.


----------



## redbhoy (7 Dec 2010)

Maybe people see Sinn Féin as more community workers with the communities interests at heart and prefer the likes of them in government instead of career politicians out to feather their own nest and that of their friends. Surely Sinn Féin couldnt do as bad as the current shower??
I'll be voting SF and any of the United Left Alliance seeing as they only take the average working wage which I think is commendable when you think of the recent expenses scandals and exhorbitant wages of our public representatives.


----------



## Caveat (7 Dec 2010)

redbhoy said:


> I'll be voting SF and any of the United Left Alliance seeing as they only take the average working wage ...


 
And that's the only reason ?!


----------



## redbhoy (7 Dec 2010)

Caveat said:


> And that's the only reason ?!


 
 Not the only one but I think its one of the more admirable ones, especially when I think of Lowry, Callally and the other sleeveens in the Dáíl.
 I actually read the Sinn Féin pre-budget proposal and was impressed by it. I know the Sinn Féin party do good work in my area locally so they'll be getting the number 1. Their time has come! or day whatever! LOL


----------



## Complainer (7 Dec 2010)

Sunny said:


> Why would anyone feel guilt over who they vote for?


Because by voting for Fianna Fail, they played their part in driving us into the arms of the ECB/IMF moneylenders.


----------



## Sunny (7 Dec 2010)

Complainer said:


> Because by voting for Fianna Fail, they played their part in driving us into the arms of the ECB/IMF moneylenders.


 
Thats ridiculous. That's like saying the people who voted for Robert Mugabe (who was once the darling of Africa) deserve all the economic suffering they are getting.


----------



## grahamo (7 Dec 2010)

Never voted for them never would. I would have happily taken all the pay cuts, extra taxes and austerity measures FF loaded on us on the chin if just once, just once they praised or thanked the citizens of the country for making their contributions and knuckling down and doing their bit. 
Instead they smugly and selfishly  turned the people against each other with divide and conquer tactics then sat back while laughing at us. I for one hope FF never get into government again. I'll happily have SF or anyone rather than FF after what they did to us.


----------



## Sunny (7 Dec 2010)

grahamo said:


> Never voted for them never would. I would have happily taken all the pay cuts, extra taxes and austerity measures FF loaded on us on the chin if just once, just once they praised or thanked the citizens of the country for making their contributions and knuckling down and doing their bit.
> Instead they smugly and selfishly turned the people against each other with divide and conquer tactics then sat back while laughing at us. I for one hope FF never get into government again. I'll happily have SF or anyone rather than FF after what they did to us.


 
What did they do to you? Gave massive increases in social welfare. Gave huge increases to public sector workers. Cut taxes. Had pretty much zero unemployment.

It was all a mirage and built on sand but I don't remember too many people crying back in 2005/2006 about what a disgrace FF were (i don't remember any opposition policies that would have saved us from this mess).


----------



## starlite68 (7 Dec 2010)

Purple said:


> FF TD's haven't murdered anyone. Bank robbing and extortion... well, there's a few parallels there I'll admit.


 thats right..they didnt dirty their hands with murder, but they were quite happy to supply the guns at one time!     history is a wonderfull thing.


----------



## Purple (7 Dec 2010)

starlite68 said:


> thats right..they didnt dirty their hands with murder, but they were quite happy to supply the guns at one time!     history is a wonderfull thing.



History is a wonderful thing but the facts don't agree with that you have just said. Not a balanced look at them anyway.

SF are worse than anything FF ever were. They are local bullies and thugs and they are anti-democratic to their core. It wasn't that long ago that they didn't recognise this state and even more recently they saw nothing wrong with murdering Gardai.


----------



## Time (7 Dec 2010)

Agreed. Also they are a party that sees nothing wrong with abstaining from the UK parliament yet collecting all the money that goes with it.


----------



## Complainer (7 Dec 2010)

Sunny said:


> Thats ridiculous. That's like saying the people who voted for Robert Mugabe (who was once the darling of Africa) deserve all the economic suffering they are getting.



There is no comparison. FF haven't quite managed to lower themselves to Mugabe's level of extortion and violence. We are a democracy (well, we were, until FF handed over the keys to ECB/IMF).


----------



## Sunny (7 Dec 2010)

Complainer said:


> There is no comparison. FF haven't quite managed to lower themselves to Mugabe's level of extortion and violence. We are a democracy (well, we were, until FF handed over the keys to ECB/IMF).



Fine, it's like saying people in the US should be ashamed for electing George Bush. People vote for politicians that they think will improve things. If those politicians turn out to be complete idiots, people might regret how they voted but I still can't see why they should be ashamed. I voted for Trevor seargent. Mistake but I am not ashamed.


----------



## Time (7 Dec 2010)

I voted for Brian Cowen and I am ashamed.


----------



## Purple (7 Dec 2010)

Complainer said:


> We are a democracy (well, we were, until FF handed over the keys to ECB/IMF).



No, we were 'till they handed it over to the social partners.


----------



## Deiseblue (7 Dec 2010)

Purple said:


> No, we were 'till they handed it over to the social partners.


 
I think we should order more duplicate keys from the locksmith as I think the Bankers and Developers have also managed to lay their grubby mitts on another set when the Government's eyes were averted .


----------



## z107 (7 Dec 2010)

> What did they do to you? Gave massive increases in social welfare. Gave huge increases to public sector workers. Cut taxes. Had pretty much zero unemployment.


Think about this for a minute.
What money did they use to pay for all of this? We'll be paying for this 'economic miracle' for years to come. All this stuff didn't appear out of thin air and it's now we're paying for it.
Everyone, well _most_ people get to pay whether they drank the champagne or not.


----------



## Sunny (7 Dec 2010)

umop3p!sdn said:


> Think about this for a minute.
> What money did they use to pay for all of this? We'll be paying for this 'economic miracle' for years to come. All this stuff didn't appear out of thin air and it's now we're paying for it.
> Everyone, well _most_ people get to pay whether they drank the champagne or not.



Maybe if you didn't selectively quote from my post, you can see I said it was a mirage and was built on sand. I wasn't applauding them. Simply pointing out that they gave many of the things that people demanded. Can someone show me the opposition spokesman who came out against rises in social welfare at rates well above inflation?


----------



## z107 (7 Dec 2010)

^ Sorry Sunny, my mistake!


----------



## redbhoy (8 Dec 2010)

Sunny said:


> . Can someone show me the opposition spokesman who came out against rises in social welfare at rates well above inflation?


 
I doubt anybody would complain about looking after the poorest in society but Im sure you could find lots that were asking for tax evasion schemes for the rich to be closed off and people who were profiting massively during the boom years to be taxed more to pay for those increases in Welfare.


----------



## Sunny (8 Dec 2010)

redbhoy said:


> I doubt anybody would complain about looking after the poorest in society but Im sure you could find lots that were asking for tax evasion schemes for the rich to be closed off and people who were profiting massively during the boom years to be taxed more to pay for those increases in Welfare.


 
Tax Evasion schemes? 

Those tax schemes were where all the money to pay for all those benefits was coming from. There might have been calls to put a halt to the rising cost of land but at the same time, there were calls to scrap stamp duty. There were complaints the Government weren't doing enough to get first time buyers onto the 'property ladder'. Every party and most people inside and outside this country bought into the latter lazy years of the Celtic Tiger when we thought we could just give ourselves huge increases in standard of living and pay for it by selling houses to each other. FF have many many faults but when history looks back at this time, they won't be the only people facing inditement.


----------



## Complainer (8 Dec 2010)

Sunny said:


> Fine, it's like saying people in the US should be ashamed for electing George Bush. People vote for politicians that they think will improve things. If those politicians turn out to be complete idiots, people might regret how they voted but I still can't see why they should be ashamed.



Wasn't it Einstein who said something about madness being doing the same thing and expecting different results?


----------



## Sunny (8 Dec 2010)

Complainer said:


> Wasn't it Einstein who said something about madness being doing the same thing and expecting different results?



Too deep for me. Were you screaming about increasing taxes and taking heat out of the economy back in 2006?


----------

