# WRC - do I need Solicitor/Barrister



## Blackbanana (24 May 2018)

Hi!

Just wondered do you need a solicitor of WRC. It's an appeal against very bad investigation. Witnesses not interviewed, documentation not reviewed. However, solacer and barrister want 3k between them. Is it advisable to go alone - I have all the documentation prepared, and will appeal it to Labour Court if needed. Would appreciate any advice.


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## Palerider (24 May 2018)

Get the best legal advice you can as your opponent will have the same, I have experience as a witness at the wrc,  it is very adversarial so prepare your case well.


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## Steven Barrett (25 May 2018)

You should have a solicitor who specialises in employment law. If you go in there on your own, you'll get hammered. I would have thought €3k for a solicitor and barrister was good value. 


Steven 
www.bluewaterfp.ie


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## Blackbanana (25 May 2018)

Hi! Sean and Palerider, I can't actually afford 3k at the moment. Am I better of just not going and forgetting about it. It's an appeal against a very bad investigation, where no evidence was looked at or witnesses interviewed for my side. I have moved on in my life to new job. It galls me though that they tried to damage my reputation even though I was out sick for five months due to buyout from huge caseload and being forced to work well over the number of hours on my job.


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## Brendan Burgess (25 May 2018)

Hi Black 

You absolutely do not need to get a solicitor. 

These should be legal-free environments, but unfortunately, they are not.

You can get someone else to help you or even to represent you e.g. a trade union official or friend who is used to negotiating. 

I have not been involved in employment law issues for a while, but this is probably going to settle. You do not need a solicitor there. 

If you pay a solicitor and a barrister €3k, they are probably not going to spend much time getting to know your case. If they are prepared to work for €3k, they are probably not very good. 

In any event, can the decision not be appealed? So this is really only a preliminary hearing. 

From my experience in the repossession courts, people are often much better representing themselves.  Legal teams at this level often just make it worse.

Brendan


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## Blackbanana (25 May 2018)

Thanks Brendan. I don't know if it will settle. It's public sector. They amount they have gotten away with so far is a bit shocking. Anyway, I have all the Codes of Practice and Statutory Instruments for Workplace Investigations, and they breached all of them. I have several books on how to conduct workplace investigations - and nothing in these books was followed, i.e. available evidence not collected, witnesses not interviewed, attempts to try and damage my reputation, and then, the fact that the HR Manager knew and recommended the  investigator. Anyway, this is Ireland, and this kind of behaviour is probably not surprising to anyone. I am moving back to the UK in 2 years, when my daughter finishes school hear - it's very rule bound there, but there's a lot to be said for that! Thanks for your reply.


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## DirectDevil (25 May 2018)

*IF* the amounts involved financially are big and or there has been significant reputational damage to you which could come against you in the future you would be safer having representative protection.

However, as Brendan says rightly there are other entities who could represent you. In fact, experienced trade union people might be a good deal more effective in terms of dealing with "nitty-gritty" material the likes of which seems to be relevant here. Against that, bear in mind that some of these industrial relations matters may end up in front of the Circuit Court on final appeal from tribunals / Labour Court.

In relation to solicitors and counsel it might be possible to defer instructing them unless you end up in the Circuit Court. If you belong to a union they may have solicitors who know the field well and who could act for you. Otherwise, if retaining a solicitor shop around for a few quotes and be sure to get a S. 68 letter each time giving you an estimate of likely costs.

Good hunting....


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## Palerider (25 May 2018)

I sat in on a similar case to the Op's at the WRC, I was in the room for three days, both sides had junior counsel, solicitor, assistant solicitor and notetakers....and witnesses, despite what others have suggested if you attend a WRC hearing feeling as you do without representation you are unlikely to succeed.

By all means represent yourself in some civil matters at District Court level, I do not recommend this at the WRC.


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## Blackbanana (25 May 2018)

Thanks Direct Devil and Palerider for your comments. Preluder - I don't have the time to sit in the WRC for three days. I thought it would be over in done with in two hours max. A solicitor offered to represent me, but when I looked at the barrister he was going to use - she was a criminal law barrister - and the fee was going to be 3k. I know the case very well, and have been researching it for months. Had to postpone the WRC due to ill-health, so have had a lot of time to look over things. It's an appeal re fair procedures not being in place - they weren't at all! So, apparently the decision of the WRC is not binding - it's under the Industrial Relations Act - this means that I can be awarded money, but it's not binding on the other side to pay me. It's also not binding if I go to Labour Court, but for me my reputation and my reference going forward matters. If I'm not successful at WRC - and I don't suspect I will. A friend who went to WRC with her Union Rep about two years ago, felt she wasn't listened to at all, and that she was just really being laughed at by the other side, and felt also, rightly or wrongly, that the members of the other side, knew the adjudicator outside of the WRC context. As Ireland is so small, this is entirely possible, so I don't think she was  being paranoid. If it doesn't go well for me, I think I will have to take it down the Court route, but I need to exhaust every non-expensive avenue first. Re notetakers - if I have to speak and take my own notes, I will certainly be there for a least a day! Thanks again.


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## Palerider (25 May 2018)

The adjudicator in the case I was involved with had a tough job, acted impartially and professionally, his report ran to 50+ pages, the detail he had in this was simply incredible, his ability to record the key points and interpret these accurately in his final report was very impressive.

Your case could take two hours but may not, if you are confident then give it a go in your own.


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## Purple (14 Jun 2018)

Blackbanana, if you can cite clear breaches in documented procedure and show that the investigator was not impartial you should be in a strong position. 
If both you and the other party are in the same union then the union may not be of much help. 
If the solicitor or barrister is not experienced in employment law then you are probably wasting your money. 

It is probably the case that the person with the best expert knowledge to represent you is you. The question is can you keep your mind clear enough and handle the pressure to do yourself justice.


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## Blackbanana (17 Jun 2018)

Thanks to all for your good advice - I went with a solicitor and barrister - it was excellent advice. The other side's reaction was priceless! They just had a Union Rep with them. My barrister swallowed them up - and the shoe was on the other foot for a change. It's not over yet though!


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## Samsarah (3 Jul 2018)

I’m just wondering how long the hearing lasted and what was the outcome in your case.


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