# Can I let my apartment to someone for the next 4 months?



## PaxmanK (29 Dec 2018)

A guy I used to work with in the UK has asked me to rent my apartment in dublin to his parents for 4 months at a fantastic rate.

Now the property used to be rented but for obvious reasons has been empty for some time.

If I rent it to this person for 4 months am i still under rent control or can I accept what he wants to pay me for it.  Do the RTB have any say at all?  If they do (rent controls) I would rather pass, and leave it empty, but if it's just an agreement between myself and the couple then I would be happy to give it to them for the price they are offering for the 4 months?

Anyone got any advice on if I can do this or not?

Thanks


----------



## Feemar5 (29 Dec 2018)

According to the PRTB you are legally supposed to register a tenancy with them and if your property is in a rent pressure zone I understand there is a maximum rent for every type of house/apartment.  A consideration for me would well do you know this person and why do his parents only require the property for four months.   You have to think about possible problems such as if they stop paying rent and refuse to leave, who pays electricity etc.,    You will also have to notify your insurance company that your property is now rented.   On the other hand if you are satisfied that there is a genuine reason for the 4 month rental it would appear to be too good to turn down.


----------



## PaxmanK (29 Dec 2018)

Thanks for the reply.
They are getting renovations done on their own house so they will be moving back into it when thats done.
They'll pay electricity and any bills.
Insurance wont be a problem at all.
This should be for all intents and purposes exactly the same as someone airbnbing it for 4 months.

If it has to have anything at all to do with the RTB though i'll just forget it.  They are just a road to tears and red tape.  God knows new legislation appears again in the middle of it just to p1ss me off and probably effect the resale value of the property down the line.
Or some case that they concoct against me themselves to make me a criminal.

Surely there has to be a way around getting that shower involved.  Neither I nor the people who will be staying there want their involvement.


----------



## Sarenco (30 Dec 2018)

It’s not “obvious” to me why your apartment has been empty for some time. Maybe you could clarify the circumstances.

In any event, a 4-month tenancy is not exempt from the RPZ regime if that’s your question.  

Why would the RTB need to be involved (beyond obviously having to register the tenancy)?


----------



## PaxmanK (30 Dec 2018)

Sarenco said:


> It’s not “obvious” to me why your apartment has been empty for some time. Maybe you could clarify the circumstances.
> 
> In any event, a 4-month tenancy is not exempt from the RPZ regime if that’s your question.
> 
> Why would the RTB need to be involved (beyond obviously having to register the tenancy)?




Obviously government interference, rent controls, red tape changing the rules on regular basis, allowing rogue tenants tenants to destroy property owners.  Locking rent to lower levels because the landlord has been good to tenants in the past.  A one sided system where tenants can ignore all laws and agreements made with no consequences but a landlord can be made a criminal for taking the amount of rent offered by someone who would really like to rent their property from them. If you dont see that I cant really help you see why people are taking properties off the rental market and want nothing to do with the RTB racket.  Some people still believe the earth is flat even though it should be obvious that its not to them.


----------



## Sarenco (30 Dec 2018)

Yes but that doesn’t explain why your apartment is empty. 

Why don’t you just sell the apartment if you want to exit the property rental business?  It hardly makes sense to just leave a property sitting idle.

Anyhoo, the answer to your original question remains the same - the rules of the game (whatever you or I might think of them) continue to apply.


----------



## PaxmanK (30 Dec 2018)

Sarenco said:


> Yes but that doesn’t explain why your apartment is empty.
> 
> Why don’t you just sell the apartment if you want to exit the property rental business?  It hardly makes sense to just leave a property sitting idle.
> 
> Anyhoo, the answer to your original question remains the same - the rules of the game (whatever you or I might think of them) continue to apply.




That is exactly why my apartment is empty.  Its just not worth it to rent it under the current regime.
Why would I sell it if I dont need to? Worse case scenario of just keeping it is  it just sits there for most of the year.  
Kids going to college soon and it will become useful then anyway.  Also it will help to get the kids out of the house when we want our own space.
And if we move back to the uk at lease we have somewhere in Dublin to stay when we come back to visit friends.  At the moment anyne in the family uses it if they need it anyway.
It would be nice to get an income from it, but under the current regime risk/reward doesnt add up at all.

Anyway I did want to keep it all above board, but I have one proposal from the couple that will work for me, but I didnt want to go down that route as it isnt above board.  Bottom line is they want to rent the apartment.  I am happy to rent it to them, but government interference is the problem.

Its would actually be less risky for me to take the money as cash and not inform anyone including revenue, than to risk letting the RTB know anything about it at this stage. What a sorry state the property rental business is in.  Go figure.


----------



## Gordon Gekko (30 Dec 2018)

If it was me, I would take this opportunity to register the tenancy at what’s an attractive rent from your perspective. I’d pay my tax and at least have the favourable rent documented as linked to that property.


----------



## PaxmanK (30 Dec 2018)

Problem is Gordon that it's been rent locked far below market rate by the current Rpz scam.  So much so that if I sell it now it would surely effect the value terribly.   If I break the rent lock I'm a criminal.

So if I took the rent they are happily offering and told revenue then I'm guessing the rtb will get hold of that and fine me a fortune or else send me to jail for all I know.

I would like a way to keep it all above board but it's like it's actually easier to take the rent offered in cash and just say nothing to anyone, including revenue.  A very sad state of affairs.


----------



## Feemar5 (30 Dec 2018)

After the four months rental to your friend's parents is Air b/b an option for you?    I feel you should come clean with Revenue as if you are caught there will be penalties.    I agree that the Rent Control system is a problem for landlords, especially good ones who did not increase the rent to good tenants and now when they leave the landlord is forced to rent at below the going rate.


----------



## PaxmanK (30 Dec 2018)

It's not rented now and this rental came to me, but it's too good to turn down.  I've no intension of renting it out after this 4 months again.  At least not under the current rent rules anyway.

I know what I'm going to do now.  I was just hoping there was a different way.
Thanjs for your thought guys.


----------



## rholland (18 Jan 2019)

I am in similar situation as you PaxmanK where I have a share in a family home belonging to my parents and we have left it empty overall as it is not worth the hassle. We are doing big renovations ourselves on slow mode ( without paying somebody else as we have the expertise). I will be looking to rent a big attic in my own house where we live on short term rental through an agent who vets people for us and have the contract drawn for us and benefit of rent a room scheme. We used the other house for friends staying over for holidays and hopefully my parents will be using it for future or our kids . Overall we feel it is not worth .


----------



## Saavy99 (19 Jan 2019)

PaxmanK, I agree with your sentiments regarding the RTB. I also have empty apartment for much the same reasons. Regarding the Airbnb route, would you consider opening an account with Airbnb and get your friends parents to book it through the site for four months, then take it off Airbnb after they have finished with it. Not sure if that is fessable but worth looking into.


----------



## PaxmanK (22 Jan 2019)

Hi Saavy99,
Problemm is if we rent it through airbnb there will probably be something else coming along in legislation to make me a criminal.
So with the fact that no matter what I do I'm a criminal I've just given the apartment to them for free.  Their son handed me a big was of cash when he was over the other day just for being a good mate.
As far as I could see that was the only.oltion for us.

You can't just have a mutually beneficial agreement between renter and landlord anymore.  Or person pays you rent they are happy with for a certain time and you hand them a property for that time.  But there are outside interference that make it impossible now.

When this couple move out we were looking at all our options for getting an income from it.  None of them will involve regular rental with the rtb and legislation involved.

We are probably just going to do similar to airbnb but not via airbnb after this until some government agency comes to us and decided to take us to court.  The chances of them gathering the evidence needed and then proving a case I think are slim to none.
So short term rental it will be.  I've actually got a list of sources of short term tenants that aren't airbnb, booking.com etc as they will be watched.  The other sources won't.
In fact there are cities all over the world now where airbnb isn't welcome and you only have to ask the former airbnbers in those cities and they will help you out by telling you what they ha e done since the rules changed in their cities.

The rental situation in Ireland has just become a joke if you are a landlord.  Maybe if you are a reit you would be OK, but certainly not as a small time landlord.

My local area had maybe two or three rentals advertised all the time and then since November there has been nothing, not even one.  I think this year is going to be very, very slim pickings for rentals.


----------



## Purple (22 Jan 2019)

PaxmanK said:


> When this couple move out we were looking at all our options for getting an income from it. None of them will involve regular rental with the rtb and legislation involved.
> 
> We are probably just going to do similar to airbnb but not via airbnb after this until some government agency comes to us and decided to take us to court. The chances of them gathering the evidence needed and then proving a case I think are slim to none.


Just make sure you don't register on a public discussion forum and make these comments, otherwise you should be fine breaking the law.
I presume you are all right with people who think the taxation system is a joke not paying their taxes and those who think the laws on drugs are a joke are fine selling drugs.
I think the laws on property ownership are a joke. I think I'll go steal a car.



PaxmanK said:


> You can't just have a mutually beneficial agreement between renter and landlord anymore.


The same applied to those business people selling drugs. Crazy, isn't it?


----------



## PaxmanK (22 Jan 2019)

Well me saying it is not the same as me.doing it or I would be arrested many times over for my opinions.   

As a former friend who is now in jail used to say .... everything is legal until you get caught.


----------



## Purple (22 Jan 2019)

PaxmanK said:


> As a former friend who is now in jail used to say .... everything is legal until you get caught.


 Your former friend doesn't sound that bright. Does he think the fire isn't hot until you touch it?


----------



## Saavy99 (22 Jan 2019)

Until something is done to address the concerns of small time landlords, the amount of empty properties will continue to rise and that scenario benefits no one.


----------



## PaxmanK (22 Jan 2019)

Just keep wagging that finger Purple.
As long as it makes you feel good I can handle it.


----------



## Purple (23 Jan 2019)

PaxmanK said:


> Just keep wagging that finger Purple.
> As long as it makes you feel good I can handle it.


I know, how dare I suggest that you should pay your taxes. Shame on me.


----------



## Purple (23 Jan 2019)

Saavy99 said:


> Until something is done to address the concerns of small time landlords, the amount of empty properties will continue to rise and that scenario benefits no one.


I agree. The current way in which landlords are treated is deeply flawed. The assumption is that they are greedy and willing to break the law whereas tenants are all powerless exploited victims.


----------



## PaxmanK (2 Feb 2019)

Well an update.
They have moved in already.  Everything going smoothly so far. They are going to stay for 4.5 months and have paid for that up front.  I told them that if their house is delayed we can extend month to month for as long as they like.  They are happy with that.
Im going to do airbnb (not actually on airbnb but the same as airbnb) then after that.  I'll do anything not to have to deal with regular renting and all the risk that brings with it.


----------

