# Can the country afford to give pay rises to public sector employees ?



## LouisCribben (12 May 2009)

I was just reading the above article today

Apparently the government don't want to "anger public sector workers" by not giving them a payrise...............

Is it just me, or is everybody else a bit surprised, ....We are going to have a 25 billion deficit this year....and we are giving payrises to folk in the public sector, at a time when nearly everyone in the private sector has been given a payfreeze/paycut or lost their job ?

Are the payrises mentioned in the article contractual, do the government have no option but to pay them ?


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## GMD (12 May 2009)

My understanding is that increments are part of the terms and conditions of certain jobs both public and private (esp Banking) so that whilst people are taking salary freezes or paycuts (i.e. non payment of the partnership agreements) that they may still be able to get the next increment on the scale.
I accept that there is serious hardship being felt at the moment by a lot of people but I really would be interested in getting accurate figures on quotes like "at a time when nearly everyone in the private sector has been given a paycut or lost their job" is this actually the case.
The reason I say this is because from speaking to friends of mine recently in professional circles, the landsdowne research in the article doesn't add up, none had lost their jobs, one had taken a paycut (graphic design), most continued to be paid as normal, (Doctors, accountants, Solicitors) and a number were getting their agreed increase in 09 and one got a bonus at Easter for 08 targets(Non Irish bank, however they were told that the bank would not cover gym or golfclub membership this year)


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## becky (12 May 2009)

Most staff in the PS/CS are on a scale so freezing increments would be a breach of contract.


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## UptheDeise (12 May 2009)

No, of course we can't afford to be dishing out payrises. But the agreement is contractual so there's nothing we can do.


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## Firefly (12 May 2009)

Unions i presume, doing their bit for the country again


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## Deiseblue (12 May 2009)

Firefly said:


> Unions i presume, doing their bit for the country again


Same in the Banks , all those on union agreed contacts will get an incremental raise annually until they hit top of scale.
I believe the same applies in the ESB.
Yes it is down to the unions doing their bit for their members , thankfully !


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## Mpsox (12 May 2009)

Can the country afford to pay this?, no

Does the government have the b..ls to take on the unions over this?, no

are the taxpayers of Ireland going to have to pay for it? yes


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## Guest128 (12 May 2009)

Deiseblue said:


> Same in the Banks , all those on union agreed contacts will get an incremental raise annually until they hit top of scale.
> I believe the same applies in the ESB.
> Yes it is down to the unions doing their bit for their members , thankfully !



Why has there not been more (any) redundancy in the banks when there is elsewhere? They cant possibly be as busy as they used to be, if you took mortgage processing/approving staff alone as an example? What are the staff doing now that were approving 20 mortgages a day for the last 5 years??


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## Sunny (12 May 2009)

FLANDERS` said:


> Why has there not been more (any) redundancy in the banks when there is elsewhere? They cant possibly be as busy as they used to be, if you took mortgage processing/approving staff alone as an example? What are the staff doing now that were approving 20 mortgages a day for the last 5 years??


 
Have been moved to chasing up the loans!!


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## Mpsox (12 May 2009)

FLANDERS` said:


> Why has there not been more (any) redundancy in the banks when there is elsewhere? They cant possibly be as busy as they used to be, if you took mortgage processing/approving staff alone as an example? What are the staff doing now that were approving 20 mortgages a day for the last 5 years??


 
Many of them have been moved to debt recovery, most temps/agency staff have been left go and they have recruitment bans in place. Ulster Bank for example has negotiated with the union for a 10% reduction in staff numbers over the next 12 months.


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## Deiseblue (12 May 2009)

FLANDERS` said:


> Why has there not been more (any) redundancy in the banks when there is elsewhere? They cant possibly be as busy as they used to be, if you took mortgage processing/approving staff alone as an example? What are the staff doing now that were approving 20 mortgages a day for the last 5 years??


2000 redundancies in the Bank of Ireland in 2006.
Firefighting is the name of the game now , big increase in those chasing debts as Sunny said.
The question is of course can the Banks afford another round of redundancies as it is very unlikely that the IBOA will settle for anything other than the terms of previous packages.


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## Purple (12 May 2009)

UptheDeise said:


> No, of course we can't afford to be dishing out payrises. But the agreement is contractual so there's nothing we can do.


 That's all that needs to be said.


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## valery (12 May 2009)

Contracts did not stop some of the big 4 accountancy firms reducing salaries and amending holiday entitlements etc.   They just issued staff with new contracts.

If the state has to borrow money to pay its employees, surely its time to look at new contracts.


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## Purple (12 May 2009)

valery said:


> Contracts did not stop some of the big 4 accountancy firms reducing salaries and amending holiday entitlements etc.   They just issued staff with new contracts.
> 
> If the state has to borrow money to pay its employees, surely its time to look at new contracts.


"Congress" will not allow the government to do that.


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## Brendan Burgess (12 May 2009)

I don't think we have lifted the ban on this debate?


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