# Fair Deal Scheme issue - advice?



## Mckers111 (18 Oct 2012)

I am just wondering if any member has a relative who is in a nursing home under the Fair Deal scheme and if they have encountered issues with it or would have some knowledge of how it works.

My father who is in the last stages of dementia is currently in a psychiatric ward in a HSE nursing home. They are now moving him to another ward in the hospital but they now want to talk to us about the Fair Deal Scheme because with the move the fees would go up. My mother, who is in charge of all financial matters had applied for it previously when he was in a private nursing home and the fees were about €2,000 a month - but this was before pension reductions, and since then she says she now has €800 less. She says if she has to apply for the scheme she will be left with nothing. One piece of advice she received was to downgrade her home but the deeds are in my fathers name and she has told me she cannot do that even if she wanted to, which at nearly 60 having been through a horrific experience with his health issues she doesn't particular want to. I've helped out financially in the past but I'm now unemployed and I'm just keeping my own head about water, and there really isn't anyone else in our family who could help. 

As bad as things are, I cannot believe that they would leave her with no option but to apply for this scheme, pay the fees and expect her to live off the remainder, which she said wouldn't cover food or petrol because it would all go into paying the bills for the house. I'm just looking for any advice that someone familiar with this might have as all I can offer is support and reassurance to her at this point. Apologies if I'm scant on certain details, I'm still not in possession of all specifics from her (e.g. what the fees will be, it's estimated around 2 grand).


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## Billo (18 Oct 2012)

Have you looked at ;


[broken link removed]


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## elcato (19 Oct 2012)

I don't understand. Did your mother apply and get accepted for the Fair deal scheme ? Was the cost then decided she is liable for 2k a month ? Is the increase now due to the fact that your father has moved and they have charged more for the extra services ? If these are true then I think she needs to re-apply for the fair deal scheme to get re-assessed. Her house would need to be revalued for this. She should also apply for the Ancillary Support. This ensures the HSE will pay her costs but they will put a charge on her house which cannot exceed 15% of the value. The advantage of this is that if your father live for 20 years the cost is still only 15% of the estate max. It also means that she would not have tp pay anything towards the costs at the moment.

[broken link removed]


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## Black Sheep (19 Oct 2012)

Fair Deal is based on ability to pay so this does not add up for me.
The Op does not state if she was granted the Fair Deal or followed up the application. 
The levy on her house would 2.5% as she is still living there


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## Mckers111 (20 Oct 2012)

Sorry, as you can see that was my first post so a) I genuinely wasn't sure if I needed to add what happened with the previous FD application (though, now that I'm in a more logical frame of mind since my OP, I see it was rather an necessity) and b) I don't have exact figures relating to income or expenses, I've asked prior to posting this but my mother doesn't want to talk about it until she has met with hospital officials next week. I think what she has coming in is a disability payment and my father's state pension, I'm not aware of any other income.

My mother had applied for the Fair Deal scheme when my father was put in a Private Nursing Home in 2010.  When he was removed in the same year - he had to be sectioned for violent behaviour (often a symptom of Alzheimer's) he was put into a psychiatric ward in a public hospital for three months. I don't know what happened but I don't believe there was any follow up regarding the deal because he was in the ward for three months then transferred to what is technically an assessment ward in a HSE nursing home (but patients have been there for years). He has been in this ward since then but now all patients are being moved.

Billo - thanks for the link, I'm wondering how much has changed since 2009 so I may need to look for more up to date information but that will give me an idea of what to look for. Elcato, AFAIK once he was put into a psychiatric ward while the previous application was being assessed there was no more about the Fair Deal application. I realise I need to get more details re: what she was paying out, but all I can get right now is that she was paying just over 2 grand a month on fees while waiting for approval on the FD.  Black Sheep I understand it is based on an ability to pay but my mother is running a house that only she lives in that she says she cannot sell and she says her cost of running her house and paying bills will take what she is left with if my father is to be admitted to this new ward under the FD. At present the cost of fees in this "assessment ward" are €1,100 per month and a move to a permanent bed will be approx. 2 grand and she is telling me with the FD scheme (which it seems she will have to re-apply for) and minus pension reductions she will not be financially secure. 

I apologise for not being able to present all the facts, I've found it hard to get my head around the financial aspects of my father's care because there has been so much movement so I am sorry that it doesn't add up. I normally don't post messages on a forum that prompt more answers than questions because that leaves responders without full possession of facts, but I guess I was wondering in a general way if anyone has been faced with extreme difficulty living off the 20% of income left over and has ever challenged it. It was probably foolish to post here without all the relevant information and thanks to those who did respond despite the lack of info I could supply.


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## elcato (20 Oct 2012)

I would imagine the application to the FD scheme is either rejected or is still in motion. Re-apply straight away if it's the former. It takes about 5 months to get approval and a further two months to get financial arrangements in place (Well this year in Dublin that was the case). The FD scheme there to help people and will work to your (mother's) advantage as any income takes into account that there are two people. If your mother is stuck for funds she fills out another form which is part of the FD scheme called the Ancillary Support. this makes sure that any costs incurred now can be defered till your father and mother's death. These costs will never exceed what has been loaned to you and never exceed 15% of your parents assets also if the costs rise up that high.


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## elcato (22 Oct 2012)

> Are they renting, or do they own the house?


From the original post. Suggests they actually own their property.


> One piece of advice she received was to downgrade her home but the  deeds are in my fathers name and she has told me she cannot do that even  if she wanted to,


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