# NPPR + €100 household rate for LLs??



## L0llip0p (25 Jul 2011)

See article below



_"ALMOST all households are set to be hit with a new €100 service charge  to be announced this week, the Irish Independent has learned. There are 1.8 million households in the country and only about 10pc  of homes -- between 150,000 and 200,000 -- will not have to pay the new  tax.__However, *the tax will be payable by the property owner*,*  meaning landlords will have to pay the bill and are therefore expected  to pass on the costs to their tenants in higher rents*. This provision  will affect a host of social welfare recipients and low-income earners._
_The  collection of the household service charge is expected to follow the  model of the tax on second homes, which is payable on the internet."_




What the hell was the Non Principal Private Residence charge of €200 for if landlords are asking to pay a further €100 ??


Surely this is reported incorrectly? Any house which is rented would  already be subject to the NPPR annual charge so I can't see how this  could be right?


----------



## Westie123 (25 Jul 2011)

I'd say that landlords will be very lucky if the NPPR tax isn't jacked up as well in the next budget!!


----------



## shesells (26 Jul 2011)

Until the legislation is published this is all wild speculation. Wait and see!


----------



## L0llip0p (26 Jul 2011)

True, but its worrying that its not an obvious exception to the €100 charge.

No smoke without fire etc...


----------



## monagt (26 Jul 2011)

So it looks like the Landlord carries the €100 charge! Why is it not called a service charge and applied to the occupant(s) like other utilities?


----------



## L0llip0p (26 Jul 2011)

*The NPPR Charge*

The Local Government (Charges) Act 2009  introduces a €200 annual charge on non principal private residences,  payable by the owners to the local authority in whose area the property  concerned is located.


From http://www.nppr.ie


So landlords have been charged for owning a non principal residence.


I can't understand how they can re-levy on the same criteria? 
€200 cos its not your home and €100 cos.....well just cos!!



Perhaps to avoid confusion, they'll just slap €100 a year levy against homeowners and up the NPPR to €300 for the other? Either way, I aint smilin.....


Interestingly on rte.ie it states following from interview with Mr Hogan 
"He said he hoped it would be collected with the TV licence fee to reduce the nuisance to people."

The landlord doesnt pay the license fee. The tenants do as they use the TV etc so thats a bit confusing


----------



## oldnick (26 Jul 2011)

TV licence fee ? I wonder if Mr Hogan has any idea how many tenants in apartments actually pay TV licence fees.


----------



## irishlinks (26 Jul 2011)

There are a few details here of the new Household Charge - but it should really be called Property Owner charge. It will be like NPPR - owners liable not occupiers and also self declaration.


----------



## Bronte (2 Aug 2011)

Would it not have been far easier to just increase the NPPR or increase the 'rate/bins' charges rather than creating another charge with all the extra paperwork and time wasting and cost of creation and monitoring.


----------



## irishlinks (2 Aug 2011)

Bronte said:


> Would it not have been far easier to just increase the NPPR or increase the 'rate/bins' charges rather than creating another charge with all the extra paperwork and time wasting and cost of creation and monitoring.



The Household Charge will be paid by many more people than NPPR -
Also - - bin charges in many parts of the country are paid to private companies - so increasing them would not help local government funding.

I agree - for the sake of 160 million - it will probably cost 10's of millions to administer.  When they bring in a full blown property tax it will cost millions to do the valuations and do the billing etc.


----------



## PaddyBloggit (2 Aug 2011)

irishlinks said:


> When they bring in a full blown property tax it will cost millions to do the valuations and do the billing etc.




No it won't ... 'cos they're going to make us do the valuations ourselves!


----------



## irishlinks (2 Aug 2011)

PaddyBloggit said:


> No it won't ... 'cos they're going to make us do the valuations ourselves!



Where did you see that ?


----------



## PaddyBloggit (2 Aug 2011)

That was part of the announcement .... unless they change their minds.

_"The permanent property tax will be self-assessed, with a range of bands depending on the value of the house."_

from:

http://www.independent.ie/national-news/owners-face-euro250-tax-on-homes-2833273.html


----------



## Bronte (4 Aug 2011)

irishlinks said:


> The Household Charge will be paid by many more people than NPPR -
> Also - - bin charges in many parts of the country are paid to private companies - so increasing them would not help local government funding.
> .


 
Yes you're right more people will pay it, how about then just slightly adjusting the NPPR website so everyone can pay it that way.  That would be a low cost way of bringing it in.


----------



## T McGibney (4 Aug 2011)

Bronte said:


> Yes you're right more people will pay it, how about then just slightly adjusting the NPPR website so everyone can pay it that way.  That would be a low cost way of bringing it in.


Is that not what they have already announced that they are doing? ie that it is to be administered by the _Local Government_ Computer _Services Board_ (LGCSB) who already look after the NPPR.


----------



## DB74 (4 Aug 2011)

I see one of the exemptions is for homes in unfinished ghost estates.

How do you define a ghost estate?


----------



## Bronte (4 Aug 2011)

T McGibney said:


> _Local Government_ Computer _Services Board_ (LGCSB) .


 
Wow another new Board I've never heard of?  Who are they?


----------



## irishlinks (4 Aug 2011)

DB74 said:


> I see one of the exemptions is for homes in unfinished ghost estates.
> 
> How do you define a ghost estate?




The exemption applies to   "_Those in certain *category 3 and 4 *unfinished housing estates (Estimated to be less than 400 estates)_ _Category 3 is where a receiver has not been appointed and the  developer is still in place but effectively inactive .   Category 4  is  where  the development has been effectively abandoned and is posing  serious problems for residents _."

from  http://www.*****************.com/household-charge-property-tax-more-details.html


----------



## pc7 (9 Aug 2011)

The thing that bugs me about the NPPR and now this 100 additional charge is not being able to write it off against the tax.  it feels like double taxation.


----------



## L0llip0p (7 Dec 2011)

So now that the €100 "household" charge has been announced in the budget, I'm still confused on whether or not I'll have to pay this €100 on top of the NPPR charge for my rented property in 2012.

I was listening to NewsTalk yesterday morning where the PWC advisor was distinguishing between non-principal residence charge and principal residence charge.

So by that logic, it would be €200 for non-principal and €100 on my home.

Anyone know if that's it or will we get squeezed for the extra €100 on the rental property too?


----------



## Nige (7 Dec 2011)

You will pay the NPPR and Household charge on your rented property. I've gone through the draft bill and it specifically states that it applies to landlords (unless the tenant has a 20 year+ lease). There is no provision to grant an exemption where the NPPR applies.


----------



## diver (9 Dec 2011)

*NPPR Changes in Budget 2012*

[broken link removed] December 7, 2011 | Posted by Money Guide 
Hidden away in all the changes around Budget 2012 – are a couple of changes to the NPPR – Non Principal Private Residence charge .
The Local Government Charges Act is being amended to bring in the new Household Charge – so while they are doing that the government are taking the opportunity to slip in a couple of changes that affect NPPR.
Firstly they are adding a *€10 admin charge* for payments made “over the counter”
Secondly – they are *removing the exemption* for properties leased to a local authority under the rental accommodation scheme, RAS and for those leased to the HSE.
The exemptions will be removed from 2012.
The exemptions will not apply to the Household Charge either .


Yet more hidden changes.............

Yes, landlords will be hit with both the NPPR charge of 200 euro and the 100 euro Household charge on the same property.

Also, those landlords who have properties with RAS were exempt from the NPPR charge up to now. This exemption will now be removed


----------



## Captain Z (15 Dec 2011)

So does this also mean that the tenant has to pay the household tax eh I mean charge? So per rental property the over cost will now be €400!


----------



## Protocol (15 Dec 2011)

House *owners* pay the new household charge.


Nothing to do with tenants.


Every house is owned by somebody, they pay the tax.


----------



## oldnick (15 Dec 2011)

Protocol - Sure the owners must pay, and if you mean that tenant is not legally responsible to the authorities then you are correct.

But ,of course, ALL costs in any product or service affect the end-user In this case the end user is the tenant. 
I don't know whether or not the landlord can,because of these taxes,  immediately apply a surcharge on an agreed rent  -which the Irish Property Owners Association - are recommending. But certainly a lanlord would be crazy to ignore the fact that property charges will greatly increase and therefore the landlord MUST increase the rent accordingly. 
These taxes have everything to do with the tenant.


----------



## Protocol (15 Dec 2011)

The fixed costs of renting have increased.

This may lead to a fall in supply of accomm, as some landlords may feel it's not worthwhile anymore.

Otherwise, subject to mkt forces, LL may try to increase rents, or resist falling rents.

*Did the 200 NPPR tax cause rents to rise by 200 pa? *


----------



## oldnick (15 Dec 2011)

The affect of costs on prices don't work to an exact formula, especially with the demand factor playing a role.

 It's not always matter of a sudden new tax being passed on immediately to the end-user. But it is obvious that as costs increase so will prices -or, in this case, rents.

The NPPR charge ain't much per se-200, nor is this new property tax -100. But an increase here and an increase there will certainly mean higher rents.


----------



## reddanmm (16 Dec 2011)

Will i still have to pay the household charge if the developer is still in place,not in recievership but still maintaining the area. With about 14 unsold houses in the development. The development is still not handed over to the council so they are not providing me with any services so why should i have to pay them for a service i am not getting.


----------



## bovis (17 Dec 2011)

Hi,

Not sure if this topic has already been covered but does anyone know if one has a second home that isnt a rental property (e.g. used for personal use as a city base to facilitate my job in Dublin) then is one liable for the NPPR and the household charge too? I have been paying the NPPR on the city property so far but now very confused about this new charge. 

Thanks,
Bovis


----------



## pudds (17 Dec 2011)

You will be caught for the two charges unfortunately.



> Owners  of *residential property* will be liable for the charge on *each* residential  property they own as at 1st January 2012.




HOUSEHOLD CHARGE DETAILS


----------

