# Pre nuptial agreement a few weeks before wedding



## Bigbird (10 May 2014)

Hi, I'm just wondering if it's worth getting a pre nuptial agreement before tying the knot.  I bought a house over a decade ago which was rented out up to about 2 and a half years ago.  My solicitor says the time frame may be an issue should the agreement be used further down the road.  Technically, a judge looks for a pre nup to be completed 3 months before a wedding.  Also,  we have kids.  I'm not sure how that might change things in a court of law.  

Anyway, whilst I'm aware that there would be no disadvantage to having a pre nup do ye think that it's worth going for it.  Legal costs to craft one are high -approximately e1,500 plus VAT. I'm financially stretched at the moment but may regret not investing in one should things go wayward further on down the road.

Regards

BB


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## arbitron (11 May 2014)

Did your solicitor explain that pre-nups are not legally binding in Ireland? At most they may inform the court's decision.


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## Bigbird (11 May 2014)

Yeah that was discussed during the meeting.  The time element is my biggest concern as it may undermine something that isn't legally binding anyway, which makes it even more less attractive.


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## arbitron (11 May 2014)

Citizens information suggests at least 28 days http://www.citizensinformation.ie/e...s/getting_married/pre_nuptial_agreements.html


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## Bigbird (11 May 2014)

Yeah, I can see that it says it recommends for one to be completed no less than 28 days before the wedding in order for it to be enforceable.


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## Bigbird (11 May 2014)

So do you think that I should just leave it be?  Sorry for the ridiculous questions I'm just want no regrets!!


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## wbbs (11 May 2014)

What does your other half think?  Presume you are not just springing this on them a month before the wedding.


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## twofor1 (11 May 2014)

Bigbird said:


> Hi, I'm just wondering if it's worth getting a pre nuptial agreement before tying the knot.
> BB



If you are wondering, I would say don’t tie the knot now, gone on as you are.

Reassess in the future.


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## Bronte (12 May 2014)

Why do you need a pre nup?  It doesn't seem the most ideal way to start a marriage.


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## Bigbird (12 May 2014)

We'll I want to get married 110 percent,however, it just when I bring my mind to the what ifs.  That's when it gets scary.  I worked very hard for my house and took extended maternity leaves to help raise our kids.  On the other hand, my hubby to be is moving onwards and upwards in his career.  While I was on maternity leaves he did a masters, which I encouraged and obviously supported.  I'm positively behind in my career and also missed out on crucial opportunities.   When I look at the 'what ifs' then I think how worse off I'd be should things move in a negative direction.  Having said that paying 1,500e when times are tight for something that has the potential to be scrapped in the court of law (due to insufficient time) would annoy me.

And no, I didn't spring it on him.  We have being discussing this for quite some time but due to loads of other stuff forgot about it until now.

Regards

BB


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## Bronte (12 May 2014)

Is your hubby to be the father of your kids. Have you both been together while you bought your house? 

What are the what if's.  Divorce?


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## Bigbird (12 May 2014)

No, I bought the house just before we met.  I have it for over 10 years now and we are going out 10 years.  Yes, he is the father of my children.  The thing that gets me is that I worked like a mad woman in my twenties to purchase a house and he used his money on holidays, parties and generally having fun.  Having said that and to be fair to him he did have a deposit for a house that we are now using as savings.  He's a great guy and I adore him, however things happen like separations/divorces and I'd be hopping with anger if I thought that I led a very sensible and measured youth in order to save for a house for someone else (who was more chilled than me in relation to finances) to benefit.  I'm an extremely responsible individual (and so is he now) and always was since I was very young.


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## amgd28 (12 May 2014)

I really don't get this. In marriage, the dictum "whats yours is mine and what's mine is yours" is, in my view where it all starts and ends. You are in this together and carving out what you did 10 years ago does not sound to me like you are in the mental space for sharing your existence completely

Why get married if you are in that headspace?


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## Bronte (12 May 2014)

Bigbird said:


> The thing that gets me is that I worked like a mad woman in my twenties to purchase a house and he used his money on holidays, parties and generally having fun.
> 
> Having said that and to be fair to him he did have a deposit for a house that we are now using as savings.
> 
> I'm an extremely responsible individual (and so is he now)


 
Did you live together for the last 10 years. Did he go on holiday alone. Who paid for the kids food, clothing, schooling etc. Did you go out with your partner in the last 10 years and who paid. 

If you're already thinking along the lines of separation and divorce then are you sure you want to get married. In any case you're wasting your time. A pre nup as far as I no is not yet valid in Ireland. What happens if you lose your job and he becomes the main earner? Would you expect him to then consider that income his?


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## Janet (12 May 2014)

amgd28 said:


> I really don't get this. In marriage, the dictum "whats yours is mine and what's mine is yours" is, in my view where it all starts and ends. You are in this together and carving out what you did 10 years ago does not sound to me like you are in the mental space for sharing your existence completely
> 
> Why get married if you are in that headspace?



I think you either "get" pre-nuptial agreements or you don't. To me, the idea is perfectly sensible and reasonable and in no way reflects on anyone's full commitment to a marriage. In fact, I'd be inclined to think that people who actually think this kind of thing through and discuss it properly are somewhat more likely to have the kind of open and honest relationship that is more likely to stay strong over many years. 

As for whether or not something like this is necessary, I think you only have to read through the very many threads here on AAM about couples who have split and are in disagreement about property. While admittedly most of those cases involve negative equity and/or debt, it would seem to give a good indication that just admitting the possibility of a breakdown of a relationship is not unreasonable.


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## Bigbird (12 May 2014)

No, we didn't live together for the last 10 years - only the last 3. The house was rented.  Yes, there were times he went on holidays on his own or with his friends.  I always had to keep money for maintaining the house and for gaps between rentals ( which often happened), which meant I never had as much money as him. 

Also, I rule with my heart but also with my head.  I'm not buying into the idea that everything will be good in the end because this ain't Hollywood and sometimes you can't make it good.  I'm realistic and realise that life can sometimes be complicated and people may grow in different directions.  I'm praying to god that it doesn't knock on my door but who knows?  I can't control another human being!  All I'm saying is after such a devastating event I'd like not to have to worry about money as I'd be grappling with enough stress already. Having said that it is possible that the pre nup could be ignored in a court of law under the grounds that he didn't have enough time to think about it which would be another waste of 1,500 plus VAT. 

We have kids and bills to pay so I'm very careful how I spend my money these days!


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## 44brendan (12 May 2014)

Given the uncertainty re the legality of such agreements the discussion here now appears to have moved towards the actual effect of the process itself on a potential life partnershp agreement that the OP is entering into. It's definitely a discussion worth having with a new husband/wife at this time. While it's quite a while ago now, I owned my house prior to getting married and my wife always referred to at as my house until we moved. Marraige does involve a big risk and the placing of huge trust on your partner. I was always of the opinion that once I got married I owned nothing and to a large extent our combined assets were there for the purposes of raising and looking after our children. While I can understand the concept of a pre-nup where a family farm or business can be put at risk, I cannot see the point of one where minor assets are being brought into the partnership. A house might well be worth 100/200K but in general (no inference on the OP) if a person is dodgy about investing this amount into a marraige, then perhaps it may need to be re-considered. Perhaps it's justt me but the whole concept of a pre-nup other than when huge assets are at stake do not rest easy, with the concept of vows which commit to a lifelong partnership!


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## Black Sheep (12 May 2014)

I agree that this a very sensible approach but unfortunately I know nothing about Pre-nups as I thought they were not recognized in Ireland.

Most of us get married in the hope that this is forever and do our best to make it work. With the best will in the world this is not always the case and then comes the split. I don't think I would be very happy to walk away with less than my share while he who had taken the more blasé route reaps the benefit of my more careful attitude.

A split is not usually done with a smile and many things are said and done in the heat of an argument so looking at it in a realistic way is a very good idea. Having a long term plan can take away many stresses.


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## Bigbird (12 May 2014)

Thanks for your responses.  Perhaps a house and it's value is not of much significance to you financially Brendan 44 but to your average joe blogs it's a lot (sad to report but one man's lifestyle another man's poverty). There was a time that pre nups were for those with heaps of buckaroos but even now your average person who worked hard for their asset would like to see it work in their advantage (no matter how much it is) should things go belly up further on down the road.

Once again, should I go for it and will my partner need to get a pre nup too should he meet with his own solicitor to agree to my pre nup or how does it work?

BB


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## terrysgirl33 (12 May 2014)

BB, have you talked to a solicitor about this?  I think you could probably get a half hour consultation for free that might tell you more about the legal implications than the board here (apologies if I'm maligning the posters!).  My reason for suggesting this is simply that AFAIK prenups are not enforceable in Ireland, especially where children are involved.  With children, the impact on them of the split will be considered, not any prenup.  I could be completely wrong, which is why I'm suggesting you talk to a professional who knows what use a prenup would be to you.

Ugh, just re-read and saw that you have discussed this with a solicitor, did he say it was legal?  AFAIK, your hubby-to-be should get his own legal advice before signing a pre-nup, but doens't need to draw up his own.


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## Bigbird (12 May 2014)

Thanks for response.  Yeah the solicitor told me the facts and did flag to me that the time element may become an issue should it ever be challenged in the future.  But she didn't say not to go for it. 

BB


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## terrysgirl33 (12 May 2014)

Bigbird said:


> Thanks for response.  Yeah the solicitor told me the facts and did flag to me that the time element may become an issue should it ever be challenged in the future.  But she didn't say not to go for it.
> 
> BB



But my understanding is that pre-nups have never been recognised here?


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## Bigbird (12 May 2014)

Yeah true.  What a solicitor will say is that it won't be a disadvantage should it be required down the line.  How much of an advantage it would be is the question and more to the point is it (potential advantage) worth 1,500 plus VAT and a small consultation fee for my partner?

BB


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## elacsaplau (12 May 2014)

Question for OP: Presumably, your goal is to "protect" the equity you have in your house - how much is this?


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## Bigbird (12 May 2014)

Around 200,000.


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## elacsaplau (12 May 2014)

You said last year this house was in negative equity - which is it?!


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## Bigbird (12 May 2014)

Yes it is in negative equity but that's what was approximately paid out for property.


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## Bigbird (13 May 2014)

Don't see why that should be an issue as the property is beginning to increase in value.  I'm certainly not interested in its current value but more it's potential value say in 10 years time or whenever!


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## Bronte (13 May 2014)

Bigbird said:


> Yes it is in negative equity but that's what was approximately paid out for property.


 
How much NE is it in? I think your new husband to be needs a pre nup, to protect him from liability for your mortgage !

Did he contribute financially to the care of the children for the last 10 years? You mention he has a deposit for a house, will you both be jointly owing that house. 

I'm a bit confused by the rent remark, was it rented from the get go until the last couple of years.  Where did you live then?  Are you living in the house now.  Does he now or will he pay part of the mortgage.

Bigbird, you do not need a prenup. It is pointless in the circumstances you outline, not only that it is probably legally unenforceable (none so far in Ireland) but you don't have any actually assets, only liabilities. By the time it's out of NE you and he will be so entwined financially that the pre nup will be the least of your problems should you divorce.


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## Bigbird (13 May 2014)

I take the view that the property market is changing and what is now a small bit of negative equity 10,000 (ten thousand)approximately will be eradicated in a few years.  

No, my children are young so my partner hasn't been contributing for the past 10 years.  But obviously, for the 3 years.

Anyways, I've decided not to go for it!  Thanks for all the opinions and advice!

Adios amigos!

BB


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## Bronte (13 May 2014)

to put a bit of context into the above as the story is a lot more complicated

http://www.askaboutmoney.com/showthread.php?t=182542


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## 44brendan (13 May 2014)

Now it's certainly gone weird. Pre nup re a negative equity property!!! The concept of assets imply ownership. Title of a negative equity property is a liability rather than an asset. Who is going to pay off the mortgage?


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## serotoninsid (13 May 2014)

Bigbird said:


> more to the point is it (potential advantage) worth 1,500 plus VAT and a small consultation fee for my partner?


This should be your biggest issue with it!  €1500+ VAT for something that *might* be beneficial but has no actual solid legal foundation?  

Can this be done DIY?  Surely it can't be that complex?


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## Time (13 May 2014)

What is the point if it has no legal standing? 

I had this discussion with a solicitor 10 years ago, and was advised it would be better to take €1000 outside and set fire to it than to make some unenforceable instrument.


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## Purple (13 May 2014)

Bigbird, I wouldn't bother. You have children together and his career is on the up and up. In a separation or divorce situation you'll get the lions share of whatever's going. Family Law (in practice) favours the woman in every respect.


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## Time (13 May 2014)

+10000 Purple.


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