# Can a verbal warning be issued without a contract being in place?



## polo1 (16 Apr 2007)

Hi

Can you advise if a company can issue a verbal warning (in writing) without their being a contract in place.  This relates to a person who is in employement for 15 years with a company but has never had a written contract?

Legally can the company issue a verbal warning to an employee if no contract has been issued?  

Thanks


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## ClubMan (16 Apr 2007)

There is a contract in place even if it is not written! 


> Anyone who works for an employer in Ireland for a regular wage or salary automatically has a contract of employment, regardless of whether it is written or not.


Obviously it's easier to clarify the nature and terms & conditions of a written contract than an unwritten one though.

Maybe there is further useful info on CitizensInformation and/or the DETE employment rights websites?


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## Art (17 Apr 2007)

The Terms of Employment Information Act only came into place in 1994. Anybody who started with a company before this does not have to be given a contract of employment unless they specifically ask for it.


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## Lomond (17 Apr 2007)

Irrespective of a contract been issued, I think the important guideline to follow is the disciplinary procedure. The verbal warning may have followed a "counselling" phase and in effect starts the disciplinary process which can/should entail certain rights for the employee concerned.
The person will need to know what could happen if the behavour which prompted the verbal warning in the first plae is not improved. 

Go the the Labour ReLations Commision site and look up their section on publications. Find the Code of Practice on Discipline and Grievance. There is no problem in issuing a verbal warning but you're as well to protect yourself in case the situation escalates.

You may wish to consider drafting up some form of written contract but a contract still exists between the two parties anyway with the terms governed by legislation, custom and practice etc.


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## Bob_tg (17 Apr 2007)

polo1 said:


> Hi
> 
> a verbal warning (in writing)


 
OK - I'm confused ... how can you issue a verbal warning in writing?


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## Lomond (17 Apr 2007)

Bob_tg said:


> OK - I'm confused ... how can you issue a verbal warning in writing?



From my understanding the verbal warning is meant to signify that the disciplinary action is in the "informal"stage. The focus is more on talking to the person to highlight the problem and working towards a reasonable resolution.

A prudent employer would however be wise to record this meeting, highlight brief but definate points and retain in file. (issue to employee also).


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## HotdogsFolks (18 Apr 2007)

Why do you think you shouldn't be able to issue verbal warnings without a contract being in place?


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## polo1 (24 Apr 2007)

Thanks for your replies - 
I thought that it would be difficult to follow a defined procedure if there was not a contract in place, thats all. Now I see that this person was in the position before contracts were mandatory by law so it makes sense.

Should this person request a contract or how do they go about knowing what kind of notice they would have to give if they were to leave? 
Also if the company was to make them reduntant, would they be liable to pay them the statutory redundancy amounts or more given their length of service ie 16 years? They would be mid management level.

Also the "warning" says its Verbal but the employee has been asked to sign it - I dont think they have done it at this stage because they dont agree with all the points.


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## MOB (24 Apr 2007)

"I thought that it would be difficult to follow a defined procedure if there was not a contract in place, thats all. "

You are not wholly wrong.  There is no strict legal requirement that all procedures be written down.  The legal requirement may be simply stated as being that procedures must be fair.  However, if a disciplinary procedure (or a grievance procedure, or any other such procedure) is not set out in writing, the employer will have an uphill battle if later trying to prove to the Employment Appeals Tribunal that, for example, a dismissal for cause was justified and occurred after following a fair disciplinary procedure.


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## shipibo (25 Apr 2007)

16 years working, mid management and no contract ?????

This is a bit confusing, have never heard of signing a verbal warning , yar mate got a written warning, why does he have to agree ???

Company issue warning, and he has right to appeal ....


Are they making him redundant ??? , if so, why does he not ask what payment he will receive, and take it from there.


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