# being nice gets you nowhere



## Blossy (6 Aug 2008)

Hi all, i feel like a good auld rant, i have noticed over the past while that being nice and helpful gets you nowhere in this world.
i recently purchased a house and the builders used it as a look out post and basically abused the house, they blocked the toilet and have been onto them to repair it with no success. 
my car bumped off another car teh other day, didnt cause much damaged to mine as i said i didnt smash into her, i helped as much as i could on the day , she has a dent on her door and now she going to a chiropractor today, i actually couldnt have been any nicer to the girl!! she said she was fine etc on the day but prob got talking to other people when she went home, ps i didnt hit her side. my seatbelt didnt even tighten.
i have plenty of friends who have affairs, cheat and treat thier partners with little respect or have done in the past and now are all settling down  and being happy.
my ex was very abusive and he just seems to get everything in life handed to him on a plate.

am not feeling sorry for myself, just feel does being a nasty piece of work, and only looking out for yourself really get you further in life. Am really feeling that the world is full of selfish people and if u nice u will just get trampled on these days. i have a little boy and everyday i tell him to respect other people dont be nasty or hurtful and if someone hits him out playing to walk away and be the bigger person? am i just feeding him a load of bull and he will be walked on???? arrrgggg i needed that


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## Caveat (6 Aug 2008)

It can be difficult. Some people definitely take advantage of 'niceness' - in fact for many it seems that having a sense of morality, or being 'nice', is simply synonymous with being "a muppet/mug".

I've come to the conclusion that 'honest, and firm but polite' is the way to deal with most people.


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## truthseeker (6 Aug 2008)

Caveat said:


> I've come to the conclusion that 'honest, and firm but polite' is the way to deal with most people.


 
Agreed.

I tend to live by 'do not accept unacceptable behaviour' also - if someone treats me in a manner which I find unacceptable I confront it immediately. In an honest, firm and polite way. 

Sometimes you do go through phases where it seems the world is against you - but remember that its all swings and roundabouts and there will be a day when everyone seems to be really nice to you too.


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## z103 (6 Aug 2008)

> Hi all, i feel like a good auld rant, i have noticed over the past while that being nice and helpful gets you nowhere in this world.


'Nice' is nothing but a tool that should be used wisely. 

Remember, This post will be deleted if not edited immediately was nice, and looked what happened to Him.


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## Thrifty1 (6 Aug 2008)

I agree, i would always be very obliging in work and do extra if asked but i have been treated like dirt since i came back after maternity leave. All the extra work i did last year and the money i made and saved them is forgotten.
Now i will only do what im employed to do as being nice and obliging gets you nowhere.
My mother used to tell me this when i was younger but i thought she was just being cynical now i see the reality.


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## cole (6 Aug 2008)

Interesting one.

I find that your own attitude towards life affects how others see you and consequently their attitude/behaviour towards you. 

I tend to also agree with some of the previous posters...some people will try to manipulate you if you're perceived as being "nice" (read walkover).

Honest, firm, fair.


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## Purple (6 Aug 2008)

I think that maintaining your integrity is more important. Treating people with respect and being honest in how you conduct yourself is not the same thing as being nice. If someone is abusive or a bully I see no problem with responding in a firm and open manner, even if this causes them great upset.

BTW, I tell my kids that if someone hits them to hit them back harder but never hit first.


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## Buddyboy (6 Aug 2008)

Pretty much agree with the previous posters.

My attitude, life isn't fair (who ever said that it shoud be).  Some people get away with murder, some get murdered.  

For every person who has more than me, there are thousands that have less.

All I can do is be true to myself, and I can sleep at night.


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## Caveat (6 Aug 2008)

The other thing is (and I'm not suggesting it's the case with the OP) that there is a certain kind of non-specific 'needy' niceness that I've encountered - all inoffensive to an extent and probably subconscious - but it can backfire badly if you are being 'nice' purely to gain favour or acceptance, as the ultimate rejection that often results can be all the more crushing.


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## Purple (6 Aug 2008)

Caveat said:


> The other thing is (and I'm not suggesting it's the case with the OP) that there is a certain kind of non-specific 'needy' niceness that I've encountered - all inoffensive to an extent and probably subconscious - but it can backfire badly if you are being 'nice' purely to gain favour or acceptance, as the ultimate rejection that often results can be all the more crushing.


 Good point


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## sherib (6 Aug 2008)

Hi Blossy - there's nothing wrong with feeling sorry for yourself when you feel you've been taken advantage of. It's good to let off steam and garner support from people who have had similar experiences. Lots of wise comments posted already. That builder might have had more respect for you if you hadn't been a woman on your own. That's not sexist - just reality.

I've often heard it said that "what goes around, comes around" but at this stage I don't really believe that. IMO treating others as we would like to be treated is always the best policy. Some people have a conscience and others do not. Would we like to be like them? I think not so take pride in being the person you are. That doesn't mean not learning from our mistakes and becoming "wise to the world". Some people are naturally self assertive and some are not, so it might be a good idea to develop that aspect of yourself while remaining the decent person you are. _*Caveat *_makes a good point - we shouldn't want or need to be liked by everyone which is easier said than done for some people. 

Respect _yourself_ as much as others. Good luck


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## Blossy (6 Aug 2008)

i agree with what everyone is saying just if u notice a customer in a restaraunt isnt happy with their meal will be more likely to receive a drink on the house or something sent out or whatever if they cause enough of a fuss, to avoid a scene or discomfort to other patrons, a person who calmly says they would like to mention a reason that they are not happy, alot of the time, they receive an apology and nothing more.
I would love to conduct a study on this?
as for what goes around comes around...dont believe in that, bad things happen to good people for no reason at all

Am gonna go home and watch a good happy dvd to cheer myself up 
or ill just walk up to a randomer and ask for a big hug to restore my faith in niceness haha


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## Thrifty (6 Aug 2008)

Suggest you watch 'Ameile'


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## Blossy (6 Aug 2008)

hey thrifty, never heard of it, just googled it!!! it mite just make my day. thank you!!


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## Caveat (6 Aug 2008)

_It's a Wonderful Life_ is also often prescribed for restoring your faith in humanity - it works too IMO.


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## cole (6 Aug 2008)

And let us know if you get a big random hug.


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## Blossy (6 Aug 2008)

will do!!! ha!!! only problem if i ask for a hug and the person is nasty, then god help them haha!!!


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## truthseeker (6 Aug 2008)

Blossy said:


> i agree with what everyone is saying just if u notice a customer in a restaraunt isnt happy with their meal will be more likely to receive a drink on the house or something sent out or whatever if they cause enough of a fuss, to avoid a scene or discomfort to other patrons, a person who calmly says they would like to mention a reason that they are not happy, alot of the time, they receive an apology and nothing more.


 
Used to work in a supermarket and observed the same phenomona frequently. Finally realised those who cause a huge fuss are given the goodies to shut them up and move them on so as not to look bad in front of other customers, but as soon as they are gone they are blasted to high heaven by staff and everyone goes out of their way to make life difficult in small ways for that person in the future.

Was it fair? No.  
What did it teach me? To get what you really want in a shop or business go in and make as much noise as possible, in front of as many people as possible - but dont bother going back again cos you wont be made welcome.


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## Pique318 (6 Aug 2008)

What really gets my goat is the 2-faced backstabbing sycophants that you get in the workplace. Always a big hello for everyone and smiley and happy all the time in public....until you hear about how they treat people like dirt, take credit that's due to others hard work and put on all false pretences around management to 'get ahead'.

You know who I'm talking about...we've all seen them. 

Sadly, most management are so taken in by the 'yes boss' attitude that they're too bling to see what these people are really like and nearly become 'pets'. Until the staff refuse to work for them because they're such horrible individuals.


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## Mel (6 Aug 2008)

Purple said:


> BTW, I tell my kids that if someone hits them to hit them back harder but never hit first.


 
I do the same.


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## shnaek (6 Aug 2008)

Mel said:


> I do the same.


I read about a UK woman who used to give the same advice to her kids, but has now changed her mind with all the knife crime there. Sometimes it can be dangerous to hit back.


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## Blossy (6 Aug 2008)

makings of a new thread here i reckon,


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## Blossy (6 Aug 2008)

but i wouldnt tell any child to hit back, id drag the child to his parents and demand they deal with the child.


....sorry i didnt mean id actually DRAG the child!


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## Mel (6 Aug 2008)

Possibly, but going back to the original post, we were always told to be nice/ don't hurt anyone's feelings above nearly all else, and I feel I was a doormat for years as a result. 

My son is big enough for his age that he doesn't really have the problem, but he has my full permission to hit back if someone starts it. It hasn't happened yet (to my knowledge).


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## ney001 (6 Aug 2008)

I agree with posters about being polite but firm - I am never ever rude to people but I can be very firm if I have to.  Other half is nice to everybody so much so that he gets walked over by everybody - there has to be a balance.


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## DavyJones (6 Aug 2008)

Blossy said:


> but i wouldnt tell any child to hit back, id drag the child to his parents and demand they deal with the child.
> 
> 
> ....sorry i didnt mean id actually DRAG the child!



Mammy or daddy won't always be there for little John/Mary. I was always thought to hold my own and don't be afraid to stand my ground. When I was in my teens I learned to read a situation and I would strike first if I know it was going to kick off. Anybody thats ever scrapped knows that first contact is a major advantage. thankfully I grew out of it.


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## Purple (6 Aug 2008)

Mel said:


> Possibly, but going back to the original post, we were always told to be nice/ don't hurt anyone's feelings above nearly all else, and I feel I was a doormat for years as a result.


 
If someone is rude or ignorant to me I have no problem upsetting him or her. In some cases I will go out of my way to make sure that they are upset.
For example a while back a guy supplying windows to me promised that he would have them on site before the Easter long weekend. He was quite rude to my wife when she called him to see where they were. As I had him mobile phone number I called him every day over the weekend, including Easter Sunday, first thing in the morning (before 7am), and last thing at night (after 11pm). The object of the exercise was to make him more upset and stressed about his failure than I was and in that I think I succeeded.


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## Purple (6 Aug 2008)

ney001 said:


> I agree with posters about being polite but firm - I am never ever rude to people but I can be very firm if I have to.  Other half is nice to everybody so much so that he gets walked over by everybody - there has to be a balance.


If people are rude to me I will be more rude back. I find it cathartic.


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## DavyJones (6 Aug 2008)

ney001 said:


> I agree with posters about being polite but firm - I am never ever rude to people but I can be very firm if I have to.  Other half is nice to everybody so much so that he gets walked over by everybody - there has to be a balance.



Like the Gardai, Does it also include you?


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## Caveat (6 Aug 2008)

Nothing like a bit of righteous retribution when it is deserved, Purple 

Going back to Pique318 and the backstabbers at work, I once got a particularly nasty and ruthless individual sacked. There were tears in his eyes as he stormed out. Still makes me smile.


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## Purple (6 Aug 2008)

Caveat said:


> Going back to Pique318 and the backstabbers at work, I once got a particularly nasty and ruthless individual sacked. There were tears in his eyes as he stormed out. Still makes me smile.



That's the spirit!


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## Pique318 (6 Aug 2008)

Caveat said:


> Nothing like a bit of righteous retribution when it is deserved, Purple
> 
> Going back to Pique318 and the backstabbers at work, I once got a particularly nasty and ruthless individual sacked. There were tears in his eyes as he stormed out. Still makes me smile.


 
lol 

Fancy a job ?


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## DavyJones (6 Aug 2008)

Caveat said:


> Nothing like a bit of righteous retribution when it is deserved, Purple
> 
> Going back to Pique318 and the backstabbers at work, I once got a particularly nasty and ruthless individual sacked. There were tears in his eyes as he stormed out. Still makes me smile.




From the sounds of it, you seemed to be the nasty and ruthless individual


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## Blossy (6 Aug 2008)

ok, just to note, i am not a walkover at all, i know noboday as said as such, but wonderred is it better to be nasty than to be nice in todays world?

ps alost of nasties here today hahah kidding.....

Maybe my opinion will change as my smallie gets older, i certainly hope he will be able to stand his ground and defend himself when needs be, but as smaller kids go, no point, ill sort it with the mother, whenever she returns for john/mary. ...no-one will mess with him then....he has a crazy mommy ......


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## Betsy Og (6 Aug 2008)

As "nice" has various meanings/connations I prefer to think of myself as/aspire to being "straight up". i.e. no bullsh1t, give everyone fair play and expect/demand the same from others.

If being nice means being too worried about being liked then people will take liberties in the knowledge that there are no consequences. (fall into this trap a little)

As regards complaining to get your way - too much stress, not my style - most people are trying their best - I get no kick from abusing some call centre drone, they are clocking in too and while I want them to do their best to help me I dont expect them to have a personal investment in the issue. In a restaurant, unless its v. bad I wont say anything, if its bad enough I'll look for something else instead but try to avoid getting the hump or feeling martyred or want everyone to geneflect around me.

As regards fighting - I think of people having certain roles or skills and each to their own. So I'll avoid the notion of fighting because I'd be taking on some scumbag with plenty of practice who wouldnt hesitate to do things I wouldnt - that said if cornered then get your retaliation in first.
A less dramatic example of this theory is gambling, say poker - I've no interest in this so why put myself at the mercy of lads with the time for this craic who would clean me out.

As regards kids and fighting - I'd like my wee man to do boxing when he's older. I did a little bit myself (practically nothing) but enjoyed it, its great discipline and I think it would also give confidence. I'd try to instill the mantra of leaving scrapping to the scrappers but at least if cornered his retaliation in first might be more effective.

Maybe to sum up my overall philosophy its about not not shafting anyone. This doesnt mean you dont make the odd hard/clinical call, say about employees. Passengers drag you down, and from their point of view if they aint cutting the mustard they may as well find out and find their proper level (doesnt mean they are no good, they've just found themselves somewhere unsuitable) - that doesnt count as shafting them in my book, you have to be fair to yourself as well as to others.


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## Mel (6 Aug 2008)

It's nice to be nice, but respect is more important I think. 

My son seems to have learnt a few nice smart retorts from the more streetwise of his classmates, and these stand to him well too (from the stories he deems worthy to be told to mother anyway ). 

Someone picked on a physical attribute of his recently, asking him was he 'normal' - his retort was "shutup <insert common derogatory term for a physical attribute of the other child>". The other child walked away. My son didn't start it, but he was well able to finish it.


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## Ash 22 (6 Aug 2008)

No Blossy, stay as nice as you are. Its good to be able to go through the day without offending and being ignorant to people and as you say your no walkover. We certainly have to be firm at times and not  walked on and thats fine too. There are lots of nice people out there and you'll only recognise them if you are one yourself.


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## PM1234 (6 Aug 2008)

The coment about being with or without a conscience is spot on. 

Being nice is something we're taught. We follow by example or sometimes we even determine to be the opposite of the example we see. And then as adults we make  the choice of whether to continue or not.  People have to work at being nice. 

However quite often, the people who start off with the right attitude of being  nice tend to have an expectation or hope of finding  the same quality in  others. The "treat others as you would like to be treated'" mindframe exists. But in life they will come across others who let them down or simply do not think this way and think that 'nice' is merely naive which frequently results in the original 'nice' person  being disappointed, becoming cynical and not so nice. 

Its a roundabout way of saying that nope it doesn't pay to be nice  

I remember being asked in an interview once if I would prefer to be liked or respected. I can't remember what I answered at the time.  In my mind they equated to pretty much the same thing. I pondered over the question for some time afterwards and came to the conclusion that  if I like someone then I will respect them, whereas if I respect someone I don't necessarily have to like them.   So my answer now would be I'd prefer to be liked.

BTW if you want to reinforce your belief in people watch my fav. film.  Life Is Beautiful. Guaranteed to make even the hardest reach for the tissues.


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## S.L.F (6 Aug 2008)

Mel said:


> his retort was "shutup <insert common derogatory term for a physical attribute of the other child>".



Sounds like your child has spent too much time with a dictionary.


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## MandaC (7 Aug 2008)

I treat people the same way as they treat me.  If they are nice to me, I am nice back, if they are rude, I will be equally rude back.

I am very straight and direct.  I have no time for bull.  Why bother?   I never let anybody down, be it friends/family or work.  I always go that extra mile to be there for people.  However, I expect the same back and it can lead to disappointments as not everybody is the same.

The worst thing that ever happened to me was that someone I had been involved with cheated.  It was a seven year relationship.    I caught him out in a serious way and it was a particularly nasty incident and showed him to be a terrible character.  It was like something on one of those plots out of Eastenders.  To this day,  it was a really weird way I found out and looking back now, I know God was looking down on me that day. It was Friday 13th as well.  Having said that, I was in work when I found out and just walked out of the office and kept walking round and round the business park in circles in a daze from 12 o clock till five 30. My poor old boss did not know what to do.  It really knocked me for six, and took ages to get over.   I am quite a strong person, but it really took the wind out of my sails because I never expected a let down.  Also, because it showed I had been a poor judge of character and it rocked my character to the core.  I can laugh about it now, because parts of it are quite funny, which is a good thing though!

No, it does not always pay to be nice but some people are naturally more easy going than others.  We are all Bertie Bassets and thats what makes the world go round.


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## Bluebells (7 Aug 2008)

Blossy said:


> i agree with what everyone is saying just if u notice a customer in a restaraunt isnt happy with their meal will be more likely to receive a drink on the house or something sent out or whatever if they cause enough of a fuss, to avoid a scene or discomfort to other patrons, a person who calmly says they would like to mention a reason that they are not happy, alot of the time, they receive an apology and nothing more.
> I would love to conduct a study on this?
> as for what goes around comes around...dont believe in that, bad things happen to good people for no reason at all
> 
> ...



The squeaky wheel gets the grease.


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## Pique318 (7 Aug 2008)

It's nice to be important, but it's more important to be nice.


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## sam h (7 Aug 2008)

Blossy, nice things happen to nice people....OK, not strictly true, BUT they do tend to be the type of people who have friends and family around them to help them when the not-so-nice things happen.

I kinda believe in karma and I firmly believe that these things come back to bit you. I'm not saying you need to be a walkover, but treat others as you'd like to be treated. 

And remember, for whatever reason, some people are just miserable & impossible to please. There is someone who works at a local public facility and I have NEVER seen her smile - I've challenged myself to get a "nice" reaction out of her....always give her a big smile, hello, how are you....always get a grunt back!!!


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## Blossy (7 Aug 2008)

sam h said:


> Blossy, nice things happen to nice people....OK, not strictly true, BUT they do tend to be the type of people who have friends and family around them to help them when the not-so-nice things happen!!


 
very good point, as they say i guess...it can be lonely at the top. 
so i suppose if the point is that being nasty can get you further, u can end up there alone! made me feel better now!!!


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## Ash 22 (7 Aug 2008)

MandaC I'm glad you've got through your situation which can't have been easy. You are obviously better off without that other person, sound like you deserve much better. Bet it has made you a much stronger person too.


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## MandaC (7 Aug 2008)

Ash 22 said:


> MandaC I'm glad you've got through your situation which can't have been easy. You are obviously better off without that other person, sound like you deserve much better. Bet it has made you a much stronger person too.



Tough at the time, but can laugh about it now the way it happened.   Unfortunately, I had my rose coloured specs on at the time.  Somebody was looking down on me though and it was really for the best, as I was very close to making what could have been a very costly mistake financially for me!  So some good always comes out of every situation.


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## eileen alana (7 Aug 2008)

MandaC - you sound like a very nice girl  and yes it will get you places, loads of friends for starters, no body wants to be around someone horrid.


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## tink (8 Aug 2008)

Hi Blossy a good read of The Secret is what you need ! I am a big believer in karma and if that lady you hit is acting the maggot then she will get a big dose of bad karma in the future !


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## Brianne (9 Aug 2008)

Being the opening day of the Olympics, the following chinese expression comes to mind. If you sit on the riverbank long enough , the bodies of your enemies will float past you!!!


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## BOXtheFOX (9 Aug 2008)

Unfortunately when it is a family member it is hard to escape them. We have a family member who can bring you "down" within minutes. It has got to the stage where you don't visit this person toward the weekend as you are guaranteed to have your weekend ruined.


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## MandaC (9 Aug 2008)

I agree, a negative person can put years on you whereas a nice person can lift your mood.

I don't know if anyone shops in Superquinn, Lucan?  There is a man who works on the fish counter there who has a fantastic sunny disposition and lovely way about him.  You could never be in a bad mood talking to him!


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## Ash 22 (9 Aug 2008)

Theres a funny saying I saw on something "The more I meet people, the more I like my dog"!!!


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## Remix (11 Aug 2008)

> or i'll just walk up to a randomer and ask for a big hug to restore my faith in niceness haha


 
When people are holding things against you, then solve it by finding someone to hold against you.

Hee Hee, I should write lyrics for country and western songs..


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