# Dual Indemnity



## Betty Crocker (29 Aug 2017)

Bit of background first. 
In January this year I was driving my husband's car (I am a named driver) and I hit another car. The other driver called the Gardai and someone came and took details etc. I paid €450 for my husband's car to be fixed. My husband's insurance company (AIG) said the other guy's car was to be written off and paid him €950.  I had intended to pay this back to them before the next renewal so as not to affect NCD.

Fast forward to August and I get a call from AIG telling me that the other guy and his passenger are claiming for personal injury. AIG said they would try to settle it outside of the Injury Board but I haven't heard anything since. They also said they would claim some of the costs from my own insurance company (Liberty).

Now my husband's renewal has come (via Chill.ie) and he has lost several years of his NCD meaning that his policy is up €1,200 on last year. Chill said that he cannot change insurers as there is an open claim. 

I contacted Liberty and they said that my NCD will also be affected when my renewal comes around. 

Is this correct? Are we both totally screwed for the next few years? Are we better off NOT being named drivers on each other's cars?


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## mathepac (29 Aug 2017)

In short, yes it is correct. The question about drivers on these policies is usually worded "Have you (the insured) or any named driver had a claim or an accident in the last 5 years?" The answer in each case is "YES" so NCDs are reduced.


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## Brendan Burgess (29 Aug 2017)

So if a couple have two cars, they are better off driving their own cars as much as possible? 

If the husband has a crash in his car, only he is affected. 

If he crashes his wife's car, they both lose their NCB? 

Brendan


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## Betty Crocker (29 Aug 2017)

That's my understanding of it Brendan.  It sucks. 

I'm just comparing the figures from the renewal quote and last year's quote.

Sept 2016 
€700 after 55% NCD.  Total premium before discount would have been €1,555.

Sept 2017
€1,700 after 30% NCD. Total premium before discount would have been €2,428.  

What's the justification for a loading of €900 on the premium? No change in circumstances other than the claim.


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## mathepac (29 Aug 2017)

Yep, suck it surely does, you're damned if you do and damned if you don't. The biggest con is the NCD protection premium.


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## NewEdition (29 Aug 2017)

Why is the NCD protection a con?
Surely it does what it says??


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## Betty Crocker (29 Aug 2017)

NCD protection seems to be a huge con. They load your premium instead, discount means nothing.


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## Brendan Burgess (29 Aug 2017)

Betty Crocker said:


> No change in circumstances other than the claim.



That is a very significant change in circumstances though.

Brendan


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## Betty Crocker (29 Aug 2017)

Brendan Burgess said:


> That is a very significant change in circumstances though.
> 
> Brendan



I thought claims loading wasn't allowed?


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## Brendan Burgess (29 Aug 2017)

Betty Crocker said:


> I thought claims loading wasn't allowed?



Where did you get that from? 

Brendan


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## Betty Crocker (29 Aug 2017)

I'm not quite sure!  

Kind of defeats the purpose of NCD though doesn't it?

Anyway I'm going to contact AIG and ask for a breakdown of the premium
and loading.


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## llgon (29 Aug 2017)

Betty Crocker said:


> Fast forward to August and I get a call from AIG telling me that the other guy and his passenger are claiming for personal injury. AIG said they would try to settle it outside of the Injury Board but I haven't heard anything since. They also said they would claim some of the costs from my own insurance company (Liberty).



I don't understand why AIG should have claimed some of the cost from Liberty.  As you were a named driver on your husband's policy for the car in question surely his policy should have covered the claim in full.  If you did not have your own car and policy they would not have been able to claim anything and to my knowledge when purchasing car insurance the insurer does not ask these questions about the named driver.

If they had not claimed from Liberty then your NCD would not have been affected?  Although you would have to state at renewal or when purchasing a new policy that you had an accident.


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## Betty Crocker (30 Aug 2017)

I don't know Ilgon. I assumed it would be all covered by AIG, and in fact it was until the Personal Injuries cropped up. AIG then asked for my insurance details and I got a call from Liberty asking why I hadn't informed them in the first place. I had no idea that I should have.


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## Ceist Beag (30 Aug 2017)

Brendan Burgess said:


> So if a couple have two cars, they are better off driving their own cars as much as possible?
> 
> If the husband has a crash in his car, only he is affected.
> 
> ...


It may be that mathepac is correct for the scenario outlined where two cars were involved in the accident but I can confirm that in my own case this is not correct. I was driving my wifes car, had an accident, rang the insurance company, and was informed that my wife should claim of her policy. Her policy was affected (same idea as Betty, the premium is loaded before applying the NCD) but mine was not. We are both named drivers on each others policies. Both policies were with the same insurance company at the time if that might make a difference.


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## Betty Crocker (30 Aug 2017)

Thanks for that, Ceist Beag.
Did your insurance company claim off your wife's policy at all? I wonder if it depends on the amount being claimed. I don't think this would have been so much of an issue if the personal injuries didn't manifest.


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## Ceist Beag (30 Aug 2017)

Yes it was a claim against my wifes policy only Betty. I explained the scenario to them as initially I thought I would have to claim off my own policy but I was advised that my wife should make the claim off her policy. As I say, maybe the fact that we were both with the same insurance company was relevant here, I'm not sure.


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## Cervelo (30 Aug 2017)

Betty Crocker said:


> NCD protection seems to be a huge con. They load your premium instead, discount means nothing.



I think you are looking at this the wrong way, your car insurance premium is based on yourself, your car and your driving history then the NCD is applied
You had a an accident on a policy that you are named on, so therfore the premium goes up but because they have NCD protection only part of the increase is passed on
If I had an accident like yours I'd rather pay the increased premium that has NCD protection then pay the increased premium with no NCD

NCD protection only protects your NCD not the premium that is going to be charged


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## Jimbobp (30 Aug 2017)

The other thing you need to factor in is that your premium would have probably increased this year anyway, but the claim will prevent you from easily shopping around. In saying that there are insurers who will quote with an open claim so do shop around. I do agree NCD protection is a bit of a waste TBH. Just because they protect your NCD, does not mean they won't increase your base premium and you will still have the issue of not being able to shop around.


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## llgon (30 Aug 2017)

I don't think the amount of the claim or the fact that your insurance policy was with a different company should make any difference to the fact that a claim was made to your policy. I think you should contact both AIG and Liberty to find out the justification for claiming partly on your policy, thereby affecting your NCD


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## Ravima (30 Aug 2017)

Betty, only one ncb should be affected and that is the DRIVERS. The owner's is NOT affected. There is an insurance federation agreement to this effect.


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## Betty Crocker (30 Aug 2017)

Ravima said:


> Betty, only one ncb should be affected and that is the DRIVERS. The owner's is NOT affected. There is an insurance federation agreement to this effect.


Would you be able to direct me to where I can find more information on this? I can't find anything.


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## Ravima (31 Aug 2017)

Dual Indemnity (NCB) Agreement. Insurance Federation may be able to assist.


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