# Playschool - is it really needed?



## BoscoTalking (18 Dec 2008)

One thing i notice on money makeover is that often the attendance of a toddler at playschool is something that a parent will not forgo no matter how much it costs. It was not in vogue with me or any of my palls (althought we did come from families with 3/4 siblings anyway) so i find it strange that its often seen as a non-option to stop it. 

I mean could informal playdates with children in the estate or the park not suffice until the child hits big school and mixes like that?


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## sam h (18 Dec 2008)

There is no necessity to send your kids to playschool, it's normally just a way for them to interact with other kids in a slightly more formal way than "play-dates". It does help to prepare them for school in having a little bit of an idea about structure, getting out their lunch, following orders etc. But there is no reason you can't do it with a few friends if you are all stay-at-home parents. 

There is nothing they will learn there that they won't learn in school. In fact, it can mean they are a little bored in school for the 1st year as they will normally have learnth colours, numbers etc. 

We did send ours to a playgroup where the emphasis was very much on play & socialising. There just didn't seem to be enough parents & kids about to set up something informally.

It would be something I would be prepared to have foregone if money was tight & not have felt guilty about - there are mother & toddler groups, activities in the library, parks, painting at home etc (which we did also!!)


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## Hans (18 Dec 2008)

I read a report lately (sorry forget where) that said children who stayed at home with a parent did better than children that were sent to playschool. The interaction between parent and child is the best education they can have of course alot depends on how you interact and play with your child. One of my children stayed at home with me and academically he achieved more than his siblings so I definitely wouldn't send them so they would be academically ahead of their peers. I believe children aren't allowed enough free time on their own anymore just to play make up games and not always participating in organized activities.


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## BoscoTalking (18 Dec 2008)

Hans said:


> I read a report lately (sorry forget where) that said children who stayed at home with a parent did better than children that were sent to playschool. The interaction between parent and child is the best education they can have of course alot depends on how you interact and play with your child. One of my children stayed at home with me and academically he achieved more than his siblings so I definitely wouldn't send them so they would be academically ahead of their peers. *I believe children aren't allowed enough free time on their own anymore just to play make up games and not always participating in organized activities.*


 i agree and i think it was on the late late toy show when the kid had the dolls that did all sorts but when asked which would she like to keep or like best she choose the one that did nothing. 
I don't have children myself but am interested in the reasoning why some parents feel its something that can't be done without. To me its something that if its near and convenient then fine but i wouldn't be borrowing or eating less to send them.


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## bond-007 (18 Dec 2008)

Is there anything to stop a parent from home schooling a child and thus keeping the child out of the state school system?


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## BoscoTalking (18 Dec 2008)

bond-007 said:


> Is there anything to stop a parent from home schooling a child and thus keeping the child out of the state school system?


NO as long as they do homeschool them and not just let them run wild!
http://www.citizensinformation.ie/c...system/home_education/?searchterm=home school


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## bond-007 (18 Dec 2008)

pennypitstop said:


> NO as long as they do homeschool them and not just let them run wild!
> http://www.citizensinformation.ie/c...system/home_education/?searchterm=home school


Thanks for that. I shall be using that when the time comes.


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## rmelly (18 Dec 2008)

bond-007 said:


> Thanks for that. I shall be using that when the time comes.


 
Do you plan to keep them out of the system until they start university (if they so desire)?

Can I ask why?


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## bond-007 (18 Dec 2008)

Up until second level anyways.

There are no non denominational schools in my area. If there was a school with no religious ethos in my area I would send them there.


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## truthseeker (18 Dec 2008)

bond-007 said:


> Up until second level anyways.
> 
> There are no non denominational schools in my area. If there was a school with no religious ethos in my area I would send them there.


 
They will probably learn far more in a shorter period of time with one on one attention.

Are the schools in your area run by members of the catholic church or just normal state run schools that have religious instruction class? Could you have your children opt out of religious instruction?


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## BoscoTalking (18 Dec 2008)

truthseeker said:


> They will probably learn far more in a shorter period of time with one on one attention.


that could be the case but then if you are not clued into the pace of the child to learn and the lenght they should take to learn something - like a trained teacher would be then it could be a very daunting undertaking. In addition you could be faced with the challenge of your child needing qualified resource teaching. I wouldthink state school should not be ruled out if its needed.


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## DavyJones (18 Dec 2008)

bond-007, do you have pre school children?

I think that school is more than a place of education. Children get to meet lots of different type of characters from other pupils to teachers. It also teachs a child routine and to some degree discilpline and respect. I feel school is equaly as important on a sociall level as an educational one.


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## PaddyBloggit (18 Dec 2008)

Home schooling is well regulated. Curriculum has to be followed. DES inspectors visit and inspect regularly. Welfare & education of the child is closely monitored.

Be aware of what you take on if you go the home schooling route.


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## Mauri (19 Dec 2008)

I am a parent of four adult children who attended play school for 2.5 hours from age 3. It was a properly run play school, by that I mean one adult to ten children. It provided  creative play, such as sand/water play, painting, dressing up which helped to develop the imagination. These days I think too much TV/DVD is stifling children's imagination and they don't know how to make up their own games.The play school also provided a little of the formal education, alphabet, numbers, shapes and colours. It taught in a more structured way, social skills such as communication, sharing and caring, taking turns. It helped them to cope with leaving mum/dad for a couple of hours each day. I think my children gained a lot from their experience.

The play school experience has to be a good preparation for when they enter primary school and may be placed in a class of 30+. Forget the ministers mythical 27.????????? per class. 
*
RANT*
We are the only country in Europe who accept its alright for our 4/5 year old children to be in such large classes. 
If my children were young again I would be knocking down the door of the dept of Education to honour their promise of providing smaller classes.
Me thinks its time for parent power.


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## michaelm (19 Dec 2008)

The first year in school - Junior Infants (Low Babies in my day ) - is just like Playschool meaning that going to Playschool is not an educational necessity.


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## Henny Penny (19 Dec 2008)

I think good early years education is a real benefit to children - the theory is that it teaches children how to learn. 
In the irish system the state considers infant classes as preschool - and there is no obligaton to send a child to school until their 6th birthday. Unfortunately the government doesn't put much store in the benefit of early years education - as evident from the recent closure of CECDE. There is a longitudinal study being conducted by the Geary Institute in UCD focusing on the economic benefits of preschool education. Interestingly Ireland is proposing to build the largest prison in Europe at Thornton Hall ... if we put more money into early years education perhaps we wouldn't need it????


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## bond-007 (19 Dec 2008)

Well I have checked all the local schools and they all have religious patrons and thus a religious ethos. I would prefer to home school rather can subject my children to religious teachings in state schools. From my own personal experiences I learned nothing in primary school, I mostly self taught myself.

BTW I am more than qualified to teach myself.


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## sam h (19 Dec 2008)

> Well I have checked all the local schools and they all have religious patrons and thus a religious ethos. I would prefer to home school rather can subject my children to religious teachings in state schools. From my own personal experiences I learned nothing in primary school, I mostly self taught myself.
> 
> BTW I am more than qualified to teach myself.


 
Home schooling is a personal choice, but one your kids will have to live with....so make sure you get it right!! If you have a very focused kid (at 6, few & far between) and you have the time and energy to make sure they follow a wide & varied curriculum and ensure they don;t miss out socially....then fine. 

I think, personally, it's better to mix the two....so formal schooling and make sure they have a healthy mix of activities (play, library, music, muesums, learning games etc) and let them be kids....downtime, imaginative play etc.

I'm interested that you say you didn't learn *anything* in primary school, you may not have enjoyed it, but did you go onto secondary school unable to read, write, do maths etc. I do appriciate that some kids didn't/don't (to our shame) get the education they need due to dyslixia (& other learning difficulties) being missed or just seen as lazy or stupid.


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## truthseeker (19 Dec 2008)

bond-007 said:


> Well I have checked all the local schools and they all have religious patrons and thus a religious ethos. I would prefer to home school rather can subject my children to religious teachings in state schools. From my own personal experiences I learned nothing in primary school, I mostly self taught myself.
> 
> BTW I am more than qualified to teach myself.


 
Im totally on board with the not wanting to subject your children to religious teachings in state schools - I feel the same. But - I would counter it by teaching a child a non religious viewpoint outside of school and allow them to understand what religion is, why I dont believe in it, why other people do, how to handle a clash of beliefs and most importantly - that they are free to make their own decision regarding religion and faith when they are old enough to do so.

Id rather allow a child the social benefits of going to mainstream school than home schooling - I know a couple of home schooled kids (same reason - religion) and the children themselves express sadness that they dont have as many friends as other kids, that they dont get to play group activities as often, that they would like to have a school uniform and the independance of being left off to school and not always being in the care of mammy or daddy etc...


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## bond-007 (19 Dec 2008)

truthseeker said:


> Im totally on board with the not wanting to subject your children to religious teachings in state schools - I feel the same. But - I would counter it by teaching a child a non religious viewpoint outside of school and allow them to understand what religion is, why I dont believe in it, why other people do, how to handle a clash of beliefs and most importantly - that they are free to make their own decision regarding religion and faith when they are old enough to do so.


If there was a school that did that I would send them there. If they taught religion by explaining all faiths it would be better for the children, but sadly the vast majority of state schools do not. I was even asked for baptismal certs in one school and I received application forms for the local school when Mrs Bond was not a week home with the new baby. Amazing.


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## sam h (19 Dec 2008)

In relation to the multi-demoninational schools - they often have more religion taught than regular schools.

My friends kids spend a few hours each week learning about other religions & then the parents organise outside classes for their own particular religion, if there is one.  They didn't want "all that religous guff", but since decided they wanted the key parts (christening, communion etc) so has spend an average of 2 extra hours each week doing extra curricular classes....they're rather jealous that my kids do it in school (though overall they are delighted with the school).

My kids go to a regular school & the kids who are not participating in religion leave the class & do extra activities elsewhere, so you can choose not to have them participate if you wish.  Not sure if this would be available in every school.


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## bond-007 (19 Dec 2008)

> My kids go to a regular school & the kids who are not participating in religion leave the class & do extra activities elsewhere, so you can choose not to have them participate if you wish. Not sure if this would be available in every school.


It does in some schools particularly Church of Ireland ones. The C of I are more accepting of children that do not want religious instruction.

I have heard that children that leave class during religious classes are often bullied and ostracised by the other children.


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## sandrat (19 Dec 2008)

so are children who are fat, thin, tall, small, smart, not so smart, red hair, curly hair, funny names, common names etc..


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## AlbacoreA (19 Dec 2008)

pennypitstop said:


> One thing i notice on money makeover is that often the attendance of a toddler at playschool is something that a parent will not forgo no matter how much it costs. It was not in vogue with me or any of my palls (althought we did come from families with 3/4 siblings anyway) so i find it strange that its often seen as a non-option to stop it.
> 
> I mean could informal playdates with children in the estate or the park not suffice until the child hits big school and mixes like that?


 
Some people value it, some don't. I think its very productive, if done properly. Informal playdates often turns into unstructured and unproductive playdates. or they just don't happen at all. If its structured and scheduled, with people with the right skills then should work the same I assume.


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## truthseeker (19 Dec 2008)

bond-007 said:


> I have heard that children that leave class during religious classes are often bullied and ostracised by the other children.


 
Any child could be bullied for any reason - bullies will always zone in on any perceived 'difference' to use against a child - but it could just as easily happen regardless of your child attending religious instruction classes or not.

On my earlier post I suggested that YOU take over teaching your child about different religions, why you dont believe etc...outside of the school. This will result in a balanced view.

Here is a question - did you go to a mainstream religious ethos school? 
If yes - have you become indoctrinated as a result? 

I did and I havent. I can think for myself and although I cant deny loving my holy communion dress on the day, once I was of an age to think for myself I decided that I didnt believe in God or organised religion.

If you encourage your children to have an open mind they will make up their own minds on it when they are old enough anyway.


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## cleverclogs7 (19 Dec 2008)

I think its important as it helps kids interact.I send my 3.5 yr old to early start 2.5hours a day.its helped her more vocally.shes now putting sentences together raher than want that mama she says can i have that please.just a small example.sharing is really important when kids get together and playschool helps


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## thebop (20 Dec 2008)

michaelm said:


> The first year in school - Junior Infants (Low Babies in my day ) - is just like Playschool meaning that going to Playschool is not an educational necessity.


 
Wow that is a very ill-informed statement. Junior Infants is absolutely nothing like playschool. Yes, there are some similar elements such as socialisation and the importance of play opportunities but you seem to forget that there is a whole curriculum of 12 subjects to be followed in school.
For sheer numbers, the two cannot be compared - a ratio of 10:1 in a playschool vs 30+:1 in school. 
I think it is very important for children to have some experience of playschool before going to school - as it was pointed out already, it teaches them the basics of sitting down (more important than you might think), eating lunch and playing with other kids.

I could go on with the rant but I won't


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## cleverclogs7 (20 Dec 2008)

bond-007 said:


> Is there anything to stop a parent from home schooling a child and thus keeping the child out of the state school system?


 
well yeah.you have to get permission from the b.o.e and they spot check you every few months


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## PaddyBloggit (20 Dec 2008)

b.o.e. ? What's that? I presume you mean the DES (Dept. of Ed & Science)?


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## cleverclogs7 (21 Dec 2008)

Bord of education


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## PM1234 (21 Dec 2008)

I know somebody who teaches junior infants (primary school). She said she can spot within minutes of the children walking into the classroom, a noticeable difference between the children who attended playschool and those that stayed at home. 

When asked about their abilities ie counting, colours etc, she said that the children who attend playschool have a big advantage but within a few months the children who stayed at home have caught up.  

She finds the main differences are the children who attend playschool are much more interactive, sociable and confident.


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## PaddyBloggit (21 Dec 2008)

cleverclogs7 said:


> Bord of education



Can you explain further? There is no Board of Education here in the Republic (are you referring to Northern Ireland?).

The Inspectorate under the auspices of the DES inspect/monitor home education here.


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