# Landlord Not returning deposit



## Rico (25 Jan 2008)

We recently rented a house while building our own. Since moving out in early December the landlord has ceased contact and will not return emails or phone calls. They have not returned deposit. From what I have read here about PRTB is it worthwhile going down this road. Is it normal practice for landlord to be present when tenant vacating to exchange keys/deposit. Appreciate any advice. Thanks.


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## gburns_ie (26 Jan 2008)

hi this is goin back a couple of years now i was a student renting when for no reason my landlady refused to give back pur deposit,went to the small claims court filled in a form cost about £5 back then, think its something like 8euro now,and let them do all the work.Landlady in question left too long to respond to the claim i we were automatically awarded the deposit.When she did respond she said she wanted to fight this but because she had left it so long by ignoring the letters she had to fork out.Granted she made us wait by telling the sherriff she could not afford to return the deposit got it back bit by bit on a weekly basis.Hope this helps


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## mercman (26 Jan 2008)

Did you leave the property in good condition ? Did you exchange the keys / pay the ESB ? The fact that nothing has been put in writing to you leaves the landlord in a dangerous position. Suggest you send them a registered letter giving them 5 days to return deposit or else advise them of your intentions to go to the Small Claims Court. I assume that the deposit was under a few thousand ??


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## mdebets (29 Jan 2008)

mercman said:


> Did you leave the property in good condition ? Did you exchange the keys / pay the ESB ? The fact that nothing has been put in writing to you leaves the landlord in a dangerous position. Suggest you send them a registered letter giving them 5 days to return deposit or else advise them of your intentions to go to the Small Claims Court. I assume that the deposit was under a few thousand ??


 
You can't go to the small claims court for this. You have to go to the PRTB Dispute Resolution Service.


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## ice (30 Jan 2008)

mdebets said:


> You can't go to the small claims court for this. You have to go to the PRTB Dispute Resolution Service.


 
And it takes a LONG time.....I am are over 9 months waiting for a hearing over my landlord keeping my deposit. Its an unfair system that sees my money is sitting in has bank account earning him interest....


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## aircobra19 (30 Jan 2008)

PRTB isn't quick for anyone Tenant or landlord. Its a bit of a white elephant IMO. Its getting a lot of money but not achieving very much when you need it.


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## BountyHunter (1 Feb 2008)

Rico said:


> We recently rented a house while building our own. Since moving out in early December the landlord has ceased contact and will not return emails or phone calls. They have not returned deposit. From what I have read here about PRTB is it worthwhile going down this road. Is it normal practice for landlord to be present when tenant vacating to exchange keys/deposit. Appreciate any advice. Thanks.


 
Hi OP,
Assuming you left the place in good shape and left no outstanding bills then you should get your deposit back.
I rented an apt a few years back and the impression I got from the landlord was that he wasnt going to hand over the deposit. As I paid the rent by direct debit each month I went to the bank and got a statement showing the money being paid evey month into his account, I wasnt claiming any rent allowance but I did suggest to him that I would go to the revenue with my statements and request to allowance, needless to say I got my deposit back. Maybe you should consider the same approach, assuming you were paying by direct debit?
Just my 2 cents.
BountyHunter


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## mathepac (1 Feb 2008)

BountyHunter said:


> ...As I paid the rent by direct debit each month I went to the bank and got a statement showing the money being paid evey month into his account, I wasnt claiming any rent allowance but I did suggest to him that I would go to the revenue with my statements and request to allowance, needless to say I got my deposit back...
> BountyHunter



In order to claim tax relief on rent paid to a landlord resident in Ireland you need their PPSN and a signed receipt or rent book. Just FYI.


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## BountyHunter (1 Feb 2008)

mathepac said:


> In order to claim tax relief on rent paid to a landlord resident in Ireland you need their PPSN and a signed receipt or rent book. Just FYI.


 
Hi Mathepac,
  Yes your absolutely correct, in my case I was implying that I would report the landlord to the revenue for possibly withholding monies due to them if the deposit wasnt returned.
BountyHunter.


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## sam h (2 Feb 2008)

Ideally you would have the landlords PPS number, but I don't think it is essential.  In fact I reckon the revenue would be very interested in a claim where the tenant says that the landlord refuses to give their PPS number!

In response to the OP question - it is not necessary for the tenant & landlord to be present, but it definately helps avoid issues after.  I always walk through the property with a new tenant and agree the condition of the place (eg -  a mark on the carpet, or dent on fridge) and tell them to notify me of anything else they come across within a couple of days.  That way when they leave, I can see if there is any extra damage.  I would always take a reading of the gas & ESB with them present & put a note on their original tenancy agreement, along with details of what deposit has been repaid.


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## Rico (3 Feb 2008)

Thanks for comments. Finally got a reply from the landlord after persistence, located his mother in Wexford through directory enquiries. They inspected the house six weeks after we vacated and alledged we had caused all sorts of breakages. The house is 12 years old and in need of upgrade and a lot of wear and tear, rented for past 4 years while owner lives in Saudi Arabia. The original agent an auctioneer wanted no involvement when requested to carry out inspection when we leaving. The upshot was we held firm and came to agreement of deduction of €100 and deposit returned. We had spent €150 on professional cleaners prior to leaving. Glad didnt have to go the PRTB route. Regards.


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## webtax (4 Feb 2008)

mathepac said:


> In order to claim tax relief on rent paid to a landlord resident in Ireland you need their PPSN and a signed receipt or rent book. Just FYI.



Incorrect - you don't need either of these things. You should request them from your landlord but if they fail to provide them just put a note to this effect on your Rent1 form and the revenue will process your refund.

BountyHunter, you can claim rent relief going back the last 4 years so it could be worth a decent sum of money to you for a bit of form filling.


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## rsob (7 Mar 2008)

> We recently rented a house while building our own. Since moving out in early December the landlord has ceased contact and will not return emails or phone calls. They have not returned deposit. From what I have read here about PRTB is it worthwhile going down this road. Is it normal practice for landlord to be present when tenant vacating to exchange keys/deposit. Appreciate any advice. Thanks.


I have a not dissimilar situation.
Rental contract with Non-resident Landlord through Irish Agent in 2007
House put on market and made available for viewings more than 3 1/2 months before Years Lease was up.
Landlord has dispute with Agent over non-communication of 1 month holiday period within which I left property after proper Notice was register posted to Agent, inspection with no issues and key return.
Now neither Landlord or Agent are in communication with me, nor one another
They are fighting amongst one another and accusing one another of harassment and incompetence.
The agent dissolved company ( November 2007 ) which they were registered under at commencement of Rental Contact.
The house has since been Sold and I am left without return of the security deposit.
PTRB has been notified of the facts of the situation but is not able to look at situation for another 6 months ( backlogs). And then 1 - 3 months more they will issue an Adjudication decision.
But it looks to me that this is not going to make any difference as the Landlord is living in Canada without any interests in Ireland.
All reasonable efforts have been made to seek out any issues that the Landlord may have had both directly and through the Agent.

In general have you ever heard of this kind of thing happening? If so what can people like myself do if anything?  It appears that this situation falls outside of the Law.

 If you can help me with this situation and it leads to getting back my deposit I will make it worth your while - the Security deposit stands at 1250 Euro, which is hard to accept loosing...


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## mercman (7 Mar 2008)

This is not outside the Law. It appears to me as a simple form of theft. You left the matter too long to deal with.  As soon as the property came on the market to be sold, you should have shouted then. Regardless, have you thought about the Small Claims Court. Does the then landlord have any other assets in this country ?? More importantly where is the agent now, as you might have to call him as a witness.


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## rsob (7 Mar 2008)

> This is not outside the Law. It appears to me as a simple form of theft. You left the matter too long to deal with. As soon as the property came on the market to be sold, you should have shouted then. Regardless, have you thought about the Small Claims Court. Does the then landlord have any other assets in this country ?? More importantly where is the agent now, as you might have to call him as a witness.


I have been dealing with the issue since we vacated the property in December 2007.  Leaving the Matter too long.. that is easy to say. But does not really help things you must admit.
The Landlord wanted all communication through the agent from the offset which seemed ok with us ( as we could not know that he would try something like this - he seemed very particular but not likely to do something like this ) since phone calls to their country were not really on the cards.. 
The Private Residential Tenancies Board appears the only place that something like this can be brought to as it took over the duties of the SCC a few years ago.  They have the details of the situation which is going to be processed before the end of the summer but their determination can't be enforced on a someone outside the country.
I do not know of the Landlords other properties - The Agent only dealt with us in relation to the place we rented.  I know his brother is a lawyer in Ireland - but that doesn't really help me.
Call the Agent as a witness where? What good does that do if the Landlord is not living here.. I can not afford a lawyer anyway.
I have a reference from the Agent specifying that there are no outstanding issues ( utilities or damage, the house was left ready for Sale it was that well cleaned by us ) and a letter saying that they are no longer in communication with the Landlord and they presume that he will contact me.. but he is not returning my efforts to contact him - I have given the Landlord the necessary IBAN and BIC codes for the deposit transfer but still nothing.
You can understand my frustration I'm sure.


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## mercman (7 Mar 2008)

OK so. You have left it with the PRTB, but on their own admission, they are unable to deal with the matter as the landlord resides outside the country. Did you ever think that it just might be convenient for the Agent and Landlord to tell you that they have fallen out !! If his brother is solicitor in Ireland, I assume you must know here he operates from.  Have you considered dropping him a line outlining the facts and telling him of you intentions to take his brother to Court (he doesn't know what money you have to employ a solicitor). If a judgement is posted against the landlord at his brother's address should move matters on. Furthermore send / copy the letterto the landlord in Canada and place the matter with a  collection agent in the City where he is living.  This is a matter of principle rather than the money


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## DavyJones (7 Mar 2008)

you can claim rent relief going back the last 4 years so it could be worth a decent sum of money to you for a bit of form filling.[/quote]

How do you do that? have been renting for 2 years and am sole trader.


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## webtax (8 Mar 2008)

You need to fill out a Rent 1 form for each year (available on www.revenue.ie) to claim. Are you not including this already on your self-assessment tax return? The amounts is 20% of rent up to €2,000 for a single person or €4,000 if married (amounts are doubled if over 55).


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## rsob (10 Mar 2008)

> OK so. You have left it with the PRTB, but on their own admission, they are unable to deal with the matter as the landlord resides outside the country. Did you ever think that it just might be convenient for the Agent and Landlord to tell you that they have fallen out !! If his brother is solicitor in Ireland, I assume you must know here he operates from. Have you considered dropping him a line outlining the facts and telling him of you intentions to take his brother to Court (he doesn't know what money you have to employ a solicitor). If a judgement is posted against the landlord at his brother's address should move matters on. Furthermore send / copy the letterto the landlord in Canada and place the matter with a collection agent in the City where he is living. This is a matter of principle rather than the money


Yes there is a 'smoke and mirrors' quality to the Landlord's annoyance with the Agent.  The Agent has been active in communicating with the landlord until he got very abusive and said he and his family were being harassed.... The Agent is not the harassing type believe me  - but maybe that's part of the problem - some people need to be kept honest 'with a firm hand' so to speak.  

Yes I like your idea of contacting the lawyer ( although I had a look at him on http://www.rate-your-solicitor.com/ ... yikes is all I can say - some people have some worrying stuff to say... )  but yes the letter will be register posted to the lawyer, agent, landlord and PRTB.

On the matter of Principle you are bang on the money there.   I would rather and with little hesitation, spend the entire amount on a collection agent just so that the Landlord never got to use a cent of my money and I guess records are kept of that kind of thing - not sure I'd want to be on the books of a collection agency himself.   

Tell me have you any knowledge of collection agencies and how they work?   As a last course of action I will try and use one as long as its not more than the value of the security deposit.

Thanks Mercman,  I appreciate your advice, if nothing else it helps make the situation feel less futile at the moment - but I'll never give up on it - just can't - if I did - then he deserves to take my money - and that he certainly is not entitled to do....!


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