# Legal advice - economist speaker needed



## Noreen T (7 Nov 2007)

A relation of mine lives in Boston Mass. She is separated, applying for divorce and hopes to relocate with her children to Ireland. Her court date is next year. For the court she requires an expert on the Irish Economy to discuss the life she would have in Ireland Vs America. The expert would need to discuss the financial, employment and economical trends in Ireland. Does anyone have any suggestions? Ideally and Irish person living in Boston that has spoken for court related issues would ideal.


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## mf1 (7 Nov 2007)

*Re: Legal Advise - Economist Speaker needed*

This does not sound like an amicable Divorce! Is there a major dispute? How does he feel about children being taken back to Ireland?

Who wants the witness? Applicant - her or spouse? Its relevant because if she wants to make a new life here and needs to work out relative costs, to try and secure a better deal than if she stayed in Boston, a Court is entitled to say, not the case. Her choice. 

A good forensic US accountant should be able to analyse economic trends.  But, boy, is this going to cost!

mf


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## Noreen T (7 Nov 2007)

*Re: Legal Advise - Economist Speaker needed*

You are correct, her divorce is not amicable. Her Spouse is American who naturally believes the children have better opportunities if they remain in the US. Her spouse is going to have a speaker on behalf of the economy in America, my relation needs an optimistic viewpoint on Ireland. Ultimately the judge will decide their future but she needs to hear what life would be like in Ireland (excluding any mention of health care).

Cost is a problem. Already divorce fees are mounting. There most be a educated Irish Person that would be willing to give 30 minutes of their time to help?


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## mf1 (7 Nov 2007)

*Re: Legal Advise - Economist Speaker needed*

"There most be a educated Irish Person that would be willing to give 30 minutes of their time to help?"

You are kidding aren't you? An expert witness to give evidence of a hugely broad nature in a hostile environment where they are likely to be savaged and  have their reputation put on the line? And it won't be 30 minutes - what about the prep. work?

Believe me - I'm in Court in Dublin regularly today in reasonably amicable Divorce cases where no hostages are  taken by either side. And this is Dublin - US lawyers are a lot more vicious.

mf


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## csirl (7 Nov 2007)

*Re: Legal Advise - Economist Speaker needed*

You could draw their attention to the very favourable reports and statistics both the US State Department & CIA give to Ireland. Would be impossible for any "expert" brought by spouse and/or a judge in a US Court to argue against the official expert view of the US Government. Official informed and statistically backed up view point of US Government will always trump some local windbag calling himself an expert in a US Court of Law.

http://www.state.gov/r/pa/ei/bgn/3180.htm

[broken link removed]


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## Vanilla (7 Nov 2007)

*Re: Legal Advise - Economist Speaker needed*

This has got to be one of the more unusual and interesting questions posed on AAM in a while.

First she must identify the type of witness she needs. She needs an economist or a sociologist( would that be right?). But not just any old ...ist, one with good academic credentials and preferably a long list of publications to their name. And even more preferably someone who is used to giving evidence in the adversarial enviroment of a courtroom. 

Frankly if this person exists, and unless she can call in some major favours, it will certainly cost her money. Locating the person is the first step. Could there be some academic ( Irish) at present in a US university willing to do this sort of thing? Perhaps contact some of the major US colleges/universities. Does she have any contacts with academia or even the Irish American community? Is this something which happens regularly in US courts? In which case surely there should be available to her lawyer a list of expert witnesses willing to give evidence?

I'd love to know the outcome.


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## MOB (7 Nov 2007)

If one can be found, perhaps a high ranking US exec., with academic qualifications to boot,  who has spent time in Ireland would be a good choice as an expert witness.   ( Nortel have a large operation in both Ireland and Boston - maybe try there? )

I would be surprised if an economic opportunity comparison between Ireland and US was very high on the court's list of factors to consider in reaching a decision.  Obviously it is a factor, but it's not as if the lady is considering a move to Mogadishu.  

Of course, one always wants to present the best possible case, but I would have thought that the statistics about Ireland compiled by such US bodies as the CIA would be more than enough for a judge to give this issue the amount of consideration that it warrants.

Incidentally - they are not 'her' children.  They are 'their' children.   Casual gender bias in family law is yet another of my pet peeves.


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## Stifster (7 Nov 2007)

David McWilliams? Oh wait, she wants a positive spin....


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## Saudi (7 Nov 2007)

Contact the Irish embassy in Washington or the consulate in Boston (if there is one there) and they might be able to help you identify an appropriate person.


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## ubiquitous (7 Nov 2007)

*Re: Legal Advise - Economist Speaker needed*



Noreen T said:


> ... she needs to hear what life would be like in Ireland (excluding any mention of health care).



This sounds ominous. One one hand she is looking for an expert witness.  On the other, she seems to want this expert witness to exclude any mention of uncomfortable realities that might not suit her agenda. Its hard to see how any credible expert could agree to such terms before appearing as a witness on her behalf.


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## rmelly (7 Nov 2007)

*Re: Legal Advise - Economist Speaker needed*



ubiquitous said:


> This sounds ominous. One one hand she is looking for an expert witness. On the other, she seems to want this expert witness to exclude any mention of uncomfortable realities that might not suit her agenda. Its hard to see how any credible expert could agree to such terms before appearing as a witness on her behalf.


 
unless both parties have previously agreed to it rule out of scope...


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## demoivre (7 Nov 2007)

*Re: Legal Advise - Economist Speaker needed*



ubiquitous said:


> This sounds ominous. One one hand she is looking for an expert witness.  On the other, she seems to want this expert witness to exclude any mention of uncomfortable realities that might not suit her agenda.



Would you expect an economist, or indeed any other expert,  called by the defence  to give  the same opinions  as  one called by the plaintiff ? As an economist by profession I could give  several different takes on the Irish economy going forward depending on my agenda. I would have thought that it was standard procedure in court cases generally that experts  called by either side would interpret the facts to suit their side of the case.


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## ClubMan (7 Nov 2007)

An expert witness should presumably give their honest/objective opinion on the things that they are asked about no matter who calls them. What they are asked about presumably depends on how questioning goes in this sort of context.


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## ubiquitous (7 Nov 2007)

*Re: Legal Advise - Economist Speaker needed*



demoivre said:


> Would you expect an economist, or indeed any other expert,  called by the defence  to give  the same opinions  as  one called by the plaintiff ? As an economist by profession I could give  several different takes on the Irish economy going forward depending on my agenda.



Indeed but this isn't simply a matter of offering an interpretation of the Irish economy but (in the OPs words) asking a witness to explain "what life would be like in Ireland  (excluding any mention of health care)." This is imho a contradiction in terms.


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## MOB (7 Nov 2007)

"I would have thought that it was standard procedure in court cases generally that experts called by either side would interpret the facts to suit their side of the case."

I cannot tell you that this does not go on to some extent; but it is not 'standard procedure' and it is most certainly not the proper role of the expert witness to give partisan testimony


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## demoivre (8 Nov 2007)

MOB said:


> "I would have thought that it was standard procedure in court cases generally that experts called by either side would interpret the facts to suit their side of the case."
> 
> I cannot tell you that this does not go on to some extent; but it is not 'standard procedure'



Really? How common is it that an expert witness called by ,say, the defence, gives compelling evidence in favour of the plaintiff ?


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## Stifster (8 Nov 2007)

MOB said:


> "I would have thought that it was standard procedure in court cases generally that experts called by either side would interpret the facts to suit their side of the case."
> 
> I cannot tell you that this does not go on to some extent; but it is not 'standard procedure' and it is most certainly not the proper role of the expert witness to give partisan testimony


 
Of course it is, that is the reason the other side will also have their expert to contradict your case.

If an expert witness is going to say "well you know the other guy has a point" then you either shouldn't be using him or don't have a case. If he crumbles under cross-examination then so be it, but his job isn't to be impartial.

Doctors differ, it doesn't mean that one or the other is lying.


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## MOB (8 Nov 2007)

I must disagree in one respect  The expert witness most definitely should be impartial.  An expert witness who demonstrably fails to comply with this basic requirement leaves herself open to sanction either from the courts or possiblt from her professional body.


In another jurisdiction, a doctor (Roy Meadows) has been struck off the medical register for giving testimony as an expert witnesses in a way which was later found to be lacking in impartiality.


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## PMU (8 Nov 2007)

Your friend should not waste her money.  Her husband’s divorce lawyer will simply ask the Irish economist how many Irish illegals are there working in the US, and how many representations have been made by Irish politicians that they should be allowed to remain there.  This could be interpreted as indicating a belief by certain Irish politicians that life in the US is better than life in Ireland. If it isn’t, why would they be making these representations? The divorce lawyer could also throw in a few questions on tribunals on corruption, tax scandals, etc. in Ireland.  Your friends should face up to it that no rational U.S. judge would ever agree to American children being brought up in the land of paddywhackery and not in the home of the brave and the land of the free.


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## demoivre (8 Nov 2007)

> MOB said:
> 
> 
> > I must disagree in one respect  The expert witness most definitely *should* be impartial.  An expert witness who demonstrably fails to comply with this basic requirement leaves herself open to sanction either from the courts or possiblt from her professional body.
> ...


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## demoivre (8 Nov 2007)

PMU said:


> Your friend should not waste her money.  Her husband’s divorce lawyer will simply ask the Irish economist how many Irish illegals are there working in the US, and how many representations have been made by Irish politicians that they should be allowed to remain there.  This could be interpreted as indicating a belief by certain Irish politicians that life in the US is better than life in Ireland. If it isn’t, why would they be making these representations? The divorce lawyer could also throw in a few questions on tribunals on corruption, tax scandals, etc. in Ireland.  Your friends should face up to it that no rational U.S. judge would ever agree to American children being brought up in the land of paddywhackery and not in the home of the brave and the land of the free.



What, no immigrants in Ireland, squeaky clean politicians and no corporate corruption in the US?  Let me guess, you're the cyber version of Jeremy Beadle?


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## ubiquitous (8 Nov 2007)

demoivre said:


> What, no immigrants in Ireland



Well its not as if we have tens of thousands of US citizens living illegally here and in daily fear of detection & deportation back to the US


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