# Yours sincerely & yours faithfully



## acarol (14 Feb 2008)

Whats the etiquette for 'Yours Sincerely' and 'Yours Faithfully' in written letters, we are having rows here at work over it!


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## paddi22 (14 Feb 2008)

In school we were told to use  'Yours faithfully' if it was to an organisation (eg accounts handler) or someone not known to you 

and to use 'yours sincerely' if you know the person or mention the persons name at the start of letter
Doesn't seem to be any strict ruels for it though!
Doesn't seem to be any


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## Caveat (14 Feb 2008)

paddi22 said:


> In school we were told to use 'Yours faithfully' if it was to an organisation (eg accounts handler) or someone not known to you
> 
> and to use 'yours sincerely' if you know the person or mention the persons name at the start of letter
> Doesn't seem to be any strict ruels for it though!


 
It's what we were taught too but in practice most people seem to just use _sincerely_ these days.  Even the more informal _Best Regards_ seems to be more common than _faithfully_.


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## demoivre (14 Feb 2008)

I must have been in the same class as _Caveat _and _padii22 . _askoxford.com  agrees with the way we were taught!


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## Carpenter (14 Feb 2008)

My interpretation is this:

"Dear Sir/ Madam

Yours faithfully"

or

"Dear John/ Mr Doe

Yours sincerely"


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## demoivre (14 Feb 2008)

Carpenter said:


> My interpretation is this:
> 
> "Dear Sir/ Madam
> 
> ...



You were in the same class too then .


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## Carpenter (14 Feb 2008)

demoivre said:


> You were in the same class too then .


 
A class apart!


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## ClubMan (14 Feb 2008)

Carpenter said:


> A class apart!


The only class apart in our school was the remedial one.


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## Nige (14 Feb 2008)

I agree with what the others have said and you point out that the "sincerely" or "faithfully" are not capitalised.


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## paddi22 (14 Feb 2008)

One workplace I worked in used 'Regards' as a general ending. I used to vary it  with 'warm regards/with regards/regards/best regards/kindest regards
until a client said that she used to think it related to what mood I was in!! If I signed a mail 'regards' she thought I was in a bad mood and annoyed at her, whereas 'warm regards' meant I was in great form!!


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## pernickety (14 Feb 2008)

I always hated 'faithfully' so never use it despite what they tried to teach me!

"Yours sincerely" sounds lovely.

In my opinion 'best regards' emerged around the time of faxes and then emails and I would limit them to that. I hate seeing Best regards on a letter.

No wonder people have a hard time learning English (or any lang for that matter)


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## gipimann (14 Feb 2008)

And don't forget  "Mise le meas".....


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## stir crazy (14 Feb 2008)

gipimann said:


> And don't forget "Mise le meas".....


 

Can someone explain the correct etiquette for using something such as 'Mise le meas' or ' a chara' ? In fact what does 'Mise le meas' mean ? 

I'm afraid Irish was my worst subject in school. How may it be used when the rest of the letter is in english ?


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## Caveat (14 Feb 2008)

stir crazy said:


> In fact what does 'Mise le meas' mean ?


 
Literally: "Me, with regards" so an equivalent of _Regards_ then?

Which to me sounds a little informal - although as far as I can see the phrase, _mise le meas_, tends to be used in more formal communication.



> How may it be used when the rest of the letter is in english ?


 
Not sure, but I often see it used when writers are seemingly Irish speakers who find themselves having to write in English for whatever reason.


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## cinders (14 Feb 2008)

> And don't forget "Mise le meas".....


 

That brings me back!!  Whenever I needed a note for school (for being absent or late!), my Mum always started the note 'A Chara' & finished with 'Mise le meas'.  And she wasn't much of an Irish speaker!


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## Black Sheep (14 Feb 2008)

Paddi22 Don't know what class you or workmates went to but the word "Regards", warm, kind or otherwise was never allowed anywhere near a business letter in my class.

I'm with Carpenter on this one


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## Harlequin (14 Feb 2008)

'Meas' means 'respect'. So it's "Yours, with respect".

Would never use 'regards' on anything other than emails or maybe a compliment slip. It's too casual for business letters.


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## Joe1234 (14 Feb 2008)

Harlequin said:


> Would never use 'regards' on anything other than emails or maybe a compliment slip. It's too casual for business letters.



I agree.


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## becky (14 Feb 2008)

I use "a chara" and "Mise le meas" to some government departments when I don't know who I'm writing to. I generally use "Yours sincerly".  To people I know better I will use Best Regards or Best Wishes. 

Emails I use 'Regards' or "Kind regards".  I have noticed more than once one of my colleagues leaves this out when I have annoyed her by not agreeing with her point of view. If I have to reply to the mail I sign it "warm regards"  or "best wishes" to hightlght her child like behaviour.


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## gipimann (14 Feb 2008)

I've received emails with "rgds" at the end.....small regard perhaps?


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## becky (14 Feb 2008)

gipimann said:


> I've received emails with "rgds" at the end.....small regard perhaps?


 
I've got those as well I always thought they were just lazy but maybe they don't like me very much.


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## Welfarite (15 Feb 2008)

gipimann said:


> I've received emails with "rgds" at the end.....small regard perhaps?


 
I'd have very little regard for anyone who snnt such textspeak to me

I would love to see a post from a teacher on this subject, with regard (no pun intended) to how essay writing is affected by Textspeak (or should that be Txtspk?). I'd imagine standards have dropped considerably and there must be some very funny attempts at spelling!


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## Guest122 (15 Feb 2008)

Don't know how it affects teachers but I have seen some work handed up by third level college students and it is absolutely awful.  Most use computers so why they don’t use Spelling and Grammar check I don’t know…

A lecturer friend of mine says she regularly gets txt spk in assessment work and cannot mark down, as most grading schemes do not take spelling and grammar into account.  

BB


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## MOB (15 Feb 2008)

I concur that a letter to an institution or corporation should be 'yours faithfully'

I would also use this when sending a letter to a named person if I have not already been in correspondence with them or if I do not know them.  I would use ' yours sincerely' if I knew the person, or if we had already had some correspondence on a matter and were using each other's names on correspondence in both directions.  By the time I get to using yours sincerely, I am probably also using 'I am obliged for your assistance' or similar as well.

'Regards' or any of the variations on the theme, is much too informal for most business letters.   You might use it to a client or colleague you know very well, or in a letter sent to close a file in which you are expressing thanks for the business, but that is about it.    I think that it cheapens the sincerity that should be intrinsic to the expression of personal goodwill if you use it all the time - it becomes a little like an ultra fake 'missing you already' from the fresh faced corn-fed American franchise employee who we all like to lampoon, whether she exists or not.


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## Caveat (15 Feb 2008)

MOB said:


> ...it becomes a little like an ultra fake 'missing you already' from the fresh faced corn-fed American franchise employee who we all like to lampoon, whether she exists or not.


 
 Agree BTW


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## moneygrower (21 Feb 2008)

I thought 'faithfully' was used when you didn't have the name of the person because you had to have faith that your letter would be taken seriously by someone and 'sincerely' meant you were assuring joe bloggs that your were really jane bloggs and not someone pretending to be jane bloggs.
txt speak is accepted in secondary school assignments now. horrific stuff.


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## ClubMan (21 Feb 2008)

moneygrower said:


> txt speak is accepted in secondary school assignments now. horrific stuff.


Snds gr8 2 me.


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## becky (21 Feb 2008)

I work in recruitment and we now accept text speak as a record of the interview.

I know it sounds mad but the record is 'more' acurate.


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## Welfarite (21 Feb 2008)

becky said:


> I work in recruitment and we now accept text speak as a record of the interview.


 Whatever happened to shorthand?



becky said:


> I know it sounds mad but the record is 'more' acurate.


 
How is it more accurate? And does that mean that the person whose interview is recorded in long-hand is at a disadvantage?


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## sabina (21 Feb 2008)

I was taught Dear Sirs/Yours faithfully and "we" (as in "We refer to,blah blah)
and
Dear X/Yours sincerely and "I"


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## becky (21 Feb 2008)

Welfarite said:


> Whatever happened to shorthand?
> 
> How is it more accurate?
> 
> ...


 
No one has shorthand anymore - as far as I can see its not even taught.

No disadvantage. The notes do not affect the decision they are a record of the event if there is an appeal.

Apologies for going off thread.


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## stir crazy (21 Feb 2008)

moneygrower said:


> txt speak is accepted in secondary school assignments now. horrific stuff.



I hope you dont' mean english essays... in which situations is it accepted at skool  ?


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## Welfarite (22 Feb 2008)

stir crazy said:


> I hope you dont' mean english essays... in which situations is it accepted at skool  ?


 
IN which case, it would "write me no more than 20 words on the subject of...."


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