# Pps no  for primary school



## bonnie1 (14 Sep 2014)

Just curious - on my children's pupil update form (primary school) they are asking for their pps nos.  They have never asked before, even at enrolment.  Anyone know what it's for?


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## Time (14 Sep 2014)

Secondary schools use them for state exams etc. I have no idea as to why a primary school would need them?


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## vandriver (14 Sep 2014)

Is it to get a per pupil capitation grant?


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## PaddyBloggit (14 Sep 2014)

DES Circular to Primary Schools re. 'Valid enrolments' states as follows:

_"a child must be 4 years of age on enrolment (copy of birth cert must be made available and the PPS number of the child should be obtained at time of enrolment)"

_..... an instance where it would be needed - When making an application for additional resources for a particular pupil, the pupil's pps must be quoted.


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## moneybox (15 Sep 2014)

PaddyBloggit said:


> _When making an application for additional resources for a particular pupil, the pupil's pps must be quoted_.


 
Why the pps number? wouldn't the child's address and date of birth do? These days government bodies, schools, banks, water company etc are all demanding pps numbers for this and that. They never used to before so why now?


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## PaddyBloggit (15 Sep 2014)

All to do with Big Brother.


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## AlbacoreA (15 Sep 2014)

moneybox said:


> Why the pps number? wouldn't the child's address and date of birth do? These days government bodies, schools, banks, water company etc are all demanding pps numbers for this and that. They never used to before so why now?



Its a unique ID no. So easier to cross check it.


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## vandriver (15 Sep 2014)

A childs name isnt a unique identifier,and in the absence of postcode,nor is the address.


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## Bronte (15 Sep 2014)

PaddyBloggit said:


> All to do with Big Brother.


 
I consider it efficiency.  The number is unique.  Where I am everybody, and I mean everybody carried their ID with them which has the equivelent of the PPS number on it.   With this you can access a government service, apply for a car loan, prove who you are etc.


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## Steven Barrett (15 Sep 2014)

Bronte said:


> I consider it efficiency.



I agree. People are constantly giving out about public service waste. If civil servants are spending hours checking whether the Paddy Murphy who applied for x is the same as the Paddy Murphy who applied for , there is going to be a huge amount of wastage. Using a PPS number for everyone cuts down on time and potential mistakes. 

Consider it your policy number. 


Steven
www.bluewaterfp.ie


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## bonnie1 (15 Sep 2014)

So in the case of primary school it's just filed away with contact details etc and used only in certain instances eg if extra resources are required?


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## Bronte (15 Sep 2014)

bonnie1 said:


> So in the case of primary school it's just filed away with contact details etc and used only in certain instances eg if extra resources are required?


 
What do you think they will do with it other than use if for proper purposes? What could they actually do with it that would be untoward?


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## bonnie1 (15 Sep 2014)

I don't think they will do anything untoward with it, just wondering are they going to take the page and file it away, or is there a reason they are suddenly asking for the whole schools pps nos, do they need to submit them somewhere all together for some reason.  As I said we didn't have to give the nos when children were being enrolled.


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## Sandals (15 Sep 2014)

New regs for free ecce place in preschool or playschool require pps numbers now...the new pip regs


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## bonnie1 (15 Sep 2014)

That's true sandals but when my child started the pre school year the staff got me to fill out the whole form again but without the pps no as they weren't allowed hold any documents with it on it.


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## PaddyBloggit (15 Sep 2014)

Bronte said:


> I consider it efficiency.  The number is unique.  Where I am everybody, and I mean everybody carried their ID with them which has the equivelent of the PPS number on it.   With this you can access a government service, apply for a car loan, prove who you are etc.



I was just being facetious Bronte. Of course it's for efficiency.


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## AlbacoreA (15 Sep 2014)

I would suggest its for uniqueness across all services, not just the school. The PPS is turning into a national identity no.


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## Bronte (16 Sep 2014)

PaddyBloggit said:


> I was just being facetious Bronte. Of course it's for efficiency.


 
No problems Paddy I just didn't get it.


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## Bronte (16 Sep 2014)

bonnie1 said:


> That's true sandals but when my child started the pre school year the staff got me to fill out the whole form again but without the pps no as they weren't allowed hold any documents with it on it.


 
So they are allowed to collect the PPS number, allowed to send it off somewhere, but have to destroy the form they send off, is that correct?  Doesn't sound logical to me.


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## Bronte (16 Sep 2014)

sahd said:


> That is what they are supposed to do - (and what landlords should do with PTRB forms )


 
Indeed 

But you would agree it's a mad system that says you have to collect info, send it into a government department, and destroy what you've sent. 

That goes against all logic. Meanwhile I await the data protection commissioner prosecuting me.


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## T McGibney (16 Sep 2014)

Bronte said:


> Indeed
> 
> But you would agree it's a mad system that says you have to collect info, send it into a government department, and destroy what you've sent.
> 
> That goes against all logic. Meanwhile I await the data protection commissioner prosecuting me.



It also goes against the legal obligation to retain for 7 years, evidence to support claims for reliefs and deductions made in Income Tax returns.


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## bonnie1 (17 Sep 2014)

I think I've found the answer - new primary online database.
Apparently it's on dept of education website - will take a look now.


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## PaddyBloggit (17 Sep 2014)

bonnie1 said:


> I think I've found the answer - new primary online database.
> Apparently it's on dept of education website - will take a look now.



http://www.esinet.ie


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## Leper (17 Sep 2014)

Some of us on here have been screaming for years that the PPS number is sacrosanct and should be used for every transaction with the public service.  Now that it is here there are those who do not want to have the PPS number used.  We cannot have it both ways.  It is a vital necessity so those who object, please get over it.  The PPS number is for the benefit of this country and its people.


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## moneybox (21 Sep 2014)

Just seen this excellent article on another thread.  I live and work in the UK, pay similiar taxes, counil charges, water rates etc etc etc and I have never been asked for my NI number. 

http://www.independent.ie/opinion/co...-30602998.html


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