# Civil Service Job Simulation Test



## Now_and_Then

Hi all,

I am sitting the Administrative Officer test in the next week or two. I sat a previous Civil Service exam and did very well in the numerical and verbal reasoning tests. I did rubbish in the job simulation. Really bad. I'm not sure why. 

Are there any hints, websites, books etc available to help me out/ give me a hand?

I know some people will say you can't prepare for this sort of test (just have the right attitude or experience) but experience has taught me that lots of test can be prepared for and results improved.

Any ideas?


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## Staples

As a general rule, if you answer as you believe rather than choose the options you think are being sought you'll probably do well enough.

A common mistake that people make on these tests is that these answers are designed to create some sort of psychological profile.  They're not.  They're deassigned to determine how you'd react in certain circumstances.  There's no hidden agenda.  Select your option honestly on the basis of what YOU believe would be the right thing to do.

The familiarisation booklets given in advance of these tests give a good indication of what these tests are likely to involve.

AOs occupy junior/middle management roles so bear this in mind when choosing an option.  You need to choose an option that you believe would be appropriate to someone working at this level.


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## Welfarite

They is no "correct" answer, just one that is deemed more correct that the others! Also remember that the benchmark is set by the candidates sitting the exam. I don't know of any "practice" that can be done, or hints that can be got other than what Staples has outlined. I find the more of these tests you do, the better the results seem to be. I've done a few (at a high enough level) and my results improved with experience. A technique I used was to read the options first before reading the simulation, then flicking back a forth between the two before picking one (if that makes sense!)


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## oakrise

I will be writting the same exam next weekend, my grades in the numerical and job simulation has been impressive but the problem was the verbal reasoning, I was always 2marks short of the required. I dont really mind doing exams once there is something to read but in this case I ve been finding it very difficult, to be honest I ve done quite a lot and the problem has been the same, I m just wondering if anyone can point me in the right direction because I will really love to pass.
Thanks,


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## bradfield

Hey!

As an AO in the civil service I would concur with what the other posters have said re: job simulation exercise. The main skill to apply in this test is Common Sense! Dont fall into the trap of picking the one that you think the examiners are looking for eventhough it is tempting to do this, look at the question, look at all the options and pick the one that TO YOU seems to be the most sensible/logical/practical. 

I find that the verbal reasoning is a difficult one and the only piece of advice I would give you is to read the paragraph very carefully.

Dont forget that there is no negative marking on these exams so if you are running out of time and still have some questions to answer, tick the boxes! You have as much of a chance of getting it right as wrong!

I had a previous post where there were some links to similar tests on the web which may be of use! Have a search and best of luck!

B


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## Now_and_Then

Thanks for the advice. 

Maybe I was being too smart (stupid) in the last simulation test and should just take it a bit easier this time and follow my instincts.

Oakrise: as to the verbal reasoning I find that reading the passage reasonably slowly and attempting to understand it before going on to the questions builds a firm foundation. Then for the specific questions I return and concentrate on that section of the passage relevant to the question. It is worth keeping an eye on little twists like double negatives etc that will test your understanding.  All the time keeping an eye on the time and remembering as Bradfield said that there is no negative marking. I think it is best to get the the bulk of the questions out of the way, skipping those questions that are too difficult. That might sound like the bleedin obvious but it has served me well in exams... eh, except for the job simulation test.

And maybe you've practised already but there are books out there which will help you practice your verbal reasoning  and learn some of the tricks of the trade. I have used them and they've helped.


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## Jmdola

Hi, I am sitting the Civil Service AO test on 21/06/08 in Dublin. I have found the following website http://www.aptitudeonline.co.uk usefull for anybody looking to practice the verbal reasoning and numerical reasoning sections of the test. In my case, I find  the job simulation exercises most challenging part of the test;i was wondering if anybody knows of any resource where one could source, old tests, or practice questions of this nature. Jmdola


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## roseofskye

It appears from the information booklet that this year they are splitting the Job Simulation tests for AO and Third Sec so if you are applying for both you will have to sit two Job Simulation tests. Last year I only sat one but got two different results for it. 

Of course... last year I also made it through all four stages of Third Sec and all the way to the Panel and a lot of fat good it did me, since I'm starting all over again.  I'd give an arm and a leg to get the Third Secretary job.


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## Staples

roseofskye said:


> I'd give an arm and a leg to get the Third Secretary job.


 
Be careful what you wish for.........


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## roseofskye

No seriously. If they had a box for the option of mortgaging your first born I'd tick that too. 

I'd I moved to Ireland only four years ago, but I've been studying for this kind of job for nearly 8 or 9 years now. I've an undergrad degree in foreign affairs and an LLM in international law. This is the one and only job in Ireland I am truly interested in as a career job for the rest of my life. Unfortunately, none of this appears relevant to the type of recruitment process the PAC runs. Last year they didn't even appear interested in any foreign languages you spoke (despite this being very important to diplomats)!

But whatever happens, I intend on applying until they get tired of turning me away.


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## JellyBelly

Hi there, you all get the results? I'm in the mid fifties for AO. IS that enough to get to stage 2? I fear it's not as 2005 info on publicjobs says only 42 called...


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## lightup

JellyBelly said:


> Hi there, you all get the results? I'm in the mid fifties for AO. IS that enough to get to stage 2? I fear it's not as 2005 info on publicjobs says only 42 called...


 
I'm not sure about AO but they are calling the first 190 for the Third Sec role.


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## roseofskye

The whole thing feels more like a lottery than serious recruitment practice. You can't ever know what you did wrong and therefore don't know how to improve. Or you can do brilliantly the first time (which is what I did) and badly the next time. I made it through all four stages to the the panel in the 2007 competition but I didn't make it out of Stage 1 in 2008. Third sec is such a specialised position but the psychometric tests just make a mockery of it. 

I've been through the whole grinder all the way to the top. If you want tips for the subsequent 3 stages just ask me. I'll be doing it again next time....


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## Welfarite

lightup said:


> I'm not sure about AO but they are calling the first 190 for the Third Sec role.


 

Is thism info. pre-Recession adjustment plan reagrding 3% reduction in payroll costs? If so, that number of appointments may be far less as vacancies are not filled...


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## lightup

Welfarite said:


> Is thism info. pre-Recession adjustment plan reagrding 3% reduction in payroll costs? If so, that number of appointments may be far less as vacancies are not filled...


 
Info from email received from public appointments service on Monday.

JellyBelly had asked how many people will be called to round 2.  This may or may not have any bearing on how many eventually get appointed.


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## Gus2008

Third Sec is independent from the General AO as the Dept of Foreign Affairs will decide how many people they need. If they are calling the top 190, they will pick the best from that bunch. This number is normally decided in advance i.e. maybe 20 people. 

Intake from the general AO panel may be restricted because appointments will be limited. The panels normally run for 18 months so the top 50 will probably be called for interview and may get placed. Depending on demand and how many people pass the interview, maybe the top 100.


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## Gus2008

roseofskye said:


> Unfortunately, none of this appears relevant to the type of recruitment process the PAC runs. Last year they didn't even appear interested in any foreign languages you spoke (despite this being very important to diplomats)!


 
The public service recruitment process in Ireland is designed to give everyone a fair shot at it, particularily at the Stage 1 Aptitude Tests. 

At Stage 2 for the 3rd Sec, you are required to demonstrate group skills and also have an opportunity to demonstrate your knowledge of foreign affairs. So it does get more specific the closer you get to being placed.


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## lightup

Does anyone know what the written test in the second round for Third Sec will entail?  Will you asked to write on a topic specified by them on the day out of the list given or are you given a choice and so should prepare one of the topics in advance?


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## Rovers1901

You're usually given a document on some issue (a country's political , economic and social background for example) and asked to prepare a briefing note based on that for a Minister/Ass. Sec/Someone more important than you basically.

It's just reading and summarising a topic, they give you a word limit for your note. There's not a lot you can do by means of preperation I would have thought


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## miss.s

Hi 
Can anyone tell me where to apply for a civil servent position ,is it advertised just on public jobs .ie .I would love to seek employment as a civil servent esp in the current economic climite i dont have any third level education so ideally would be applying for a clerical officer position 
thank you for any replies


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## Gus2008

miss.s said:


> Hi
> Can anyone tell me where to apply for a civil servent position ,is it advertised just on public jobs .ie .I would love to seek employment as a civil servent esp in the current economic climite i dont have any third level education so ideally would be applying for a clerical officer position
> thank you for any replies


 
Register with publicjobs.ie and you will receive notification of competitions coming up. As far as I am aware, it is the only way into the civil service but maybe public bodies (local authorities etc.) recruit differently.


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## lightup

Rovers1901 said:


> You're usually given a document on some issue (a country's political , economic and social background for example) and asked to prepare a briefing note based on that for a Minister/Ass. Sec/Someone more important than you basically.
> 
> It's just reading and summarising a topic, they give you a word limit for your note. There's not a lot you can do by means of preperation I would have thought


 
Thanks for that.  The info they give is not that clear and it doesn't say that you will be given anything to summarize, just that you have to produce a briefing note on a specific issue.


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## Gus2008

Rovers1901 said:


> You're usually given a document on some issue (a country's political , economic and social background for example) and asked to prepare a briefing note based on that for a Minister/Ass. Sec/Someone more important than you basically.
> 
> It's just reading and summarising a topic, they give you a word limit for your note. There's not a lot you can do by means of preperation I would have thought


 
I did an exercise similar to this for an Executive Officer competition. For the 3rd Secretary, I thought that you have to display some knowledge about the issue... Agree with above poster that information note from PAS isn't very clear.


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## shesells

lightup said:


> I'm not sure about AO but they are calling the first 190 for the Third Sec role.


 
From what I heard, they are looking for people to go to Limerick with Irish Aid - they had to advertise again after only a year (instead of the normal 2 years) as they are having trouble convincing people to move down.

Regarding stage 2, the group exercise is totally dependent on the group you get. I've done it twice, first time had a group who all wanted to stand out and we didn't get the task done as nobody would agree. 2nd time it worked like a dream. 

The written exercise is tougher than it sounds. They keep stressing that you should use language other than those used in the information you've been given so first time I messed up in focusing on paraphrasing rather than summarising.

Didn't get past stage 2 the first time, made it to interview the 2nd and had the worst interview of my life! Decided not to apply this time as the process is lengthy and eats up annual leave and I really didn't want/need the stress this time.

Did get called for the AO interview and presentation day earlier this year (from last year's selection tests that were at the same time as the 3rd sec) but didn't score highly enough in the structured interview. Was devastated as I thought I'd done a great interview but due to the structure and example based interview, apparently I did not demonstrate a strong enough level of problem solving - grrrrrr!!!

Have given up on the civil service now, was willing to take a pay cut to get in but the whole recruitment process is a shambles IMO.


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## AdelCD

roseofskye said:


> No seriously. If they had a box for the option of mortgaging your first born I'd tick that too.
> 
> I'd I moved to Ireland only four years ago, but I've been studying for this kind of job for nearly 8 or 9 years now. I've an undergrad degree in foreign affairs and an LLM in international law. This is the one and only job in Ireland I am truly interested in as a career job for the rest of my life. Unfortunately, none of this appears relevant to the type of recruitment process the PAC runs. Last year they didn't even appear interested in any foreign languages you spoke (despite this being very important to diplomats)!
> 
> But whatever happens, I intend on applying until they get tired of turning me away.


 

Hi roseofskye, 
I've just been invited to Stage 3 of this years 3rd Sec recruitment, do you have any insight on what's required and what would be good prep for the preliminary and final interview rounds from your experience? 
Thanks!


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## Gus2008

AdelCD said:


> Hi roseofskye,
> I've just been invited to Stage 3 of this years 3rd Sec recruitment, do you have any insight on what's required and what would be good prep for the preliminary and final interview rounds from your experience?
> Thanks!


 
The 3rd stage interview will be primarily based on a competency form you have to fill in before the interview. So, pick good examples and have a few back-ups in case the Board aren't happy with the initial one you provide.


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## Rovers1901

As previous poster has said the interview will be based on competencies which you will have to prepare examples for, always best to have two as they sometimes ask for one other than the example you have written down on the form.

However unlike some CS interviews the second half then goes into a general discussion on foreign affairs issues, AO interviews also have a general topical section but the 3rd Sec is focused on foreign policy (obviously) 

Probable starter question could be "what do you think are Ireland's priority areas in foreign affairs at the moment"...or something like that and then you just have to roll with it from there. You need to know your stuff !.

Good luck


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## AdelCD

Rovers1901 said:


> As previous poster has said the interview will be based on competencies which you will have to prepare examples for, always best to have two as they sometimes ask for one other than the example you have written down on the form.
> 
> However unlike some CS interviews the second half then goes into a general discussion on foreign affairs issues, AO interviews also have a general topical section but the 3rd Sec is focused on foreign policy (obviously)
> 
> Probable starter question could be "what do you think are Ireland's priority areas in foreign affairs at the moment"...or something like that and then you just have to roll with it from there. You need to know your stuff !.
> 
> Good luck


 
Great, thanks both. 
In the second part do you know if it's appropriate to express opinions as to solutions or courses of action in response to foreign affairs issues or is it smarter to be neutral and just display a knowledge of the issues? I.e. is being opinionated good or bad!?


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## redsuperted

I can't help you with that q.. but I can recommend this practice test that you might find useful. It's a practice verbal reasoning test and a practice numerical reasoning test. Goodluck!


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## emmt

Bradfield, I wonder could you, or any other AO's out there give me some idea of what the job entails? I'd be interested in the AO ICT job specifically.


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## PunisherP

Awesome, that's sweet! simulation credit​


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## simulation11

Well, that's good discussion. Your posts are great and informative.

simulation rachat credit​


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## meow44

thanks

simulation rachat de credit​


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