# Mortgage protection joint life both declined



## okay (8 Jun 2007)

Myself and my wife have both been declined for mortgage protection. We have been waiting years to get an affordable house and finally we were offered one for €180000. We got the mortgage and it looked like we were going to be moving in in a few weeks until the insurance can back declined. We tried another company and they are the same. My wife had a nervous breakdown about 6 years ago, she is fine now but she is on a lot of medication, we think she was refused because of this. We are still waiting for a letter from them explaining why. I have to go for an mri scan in August so the companies wont even look at me until after this. I feel completely well now and the mri is only precautionary. The builders are putting pressure on us to close. We dont know what to do. We cant afford to loose this house, we will never be able to afford one privately. I was wondering if the council would be abe to help, I believe they used to do their own mortgage protection before they made a deal with the banks. Also how likely would it be that the bank would give us both a waiver. Any ideas would be gratefully appreciated.


----------



## ClubMan (9 Jun 2007)

Have you already selected a lender or are you still shopping around? As you obviously know in situations such as this lenders may (bit are not obliged to) waive the normal requirement for owner occupier mortgage protection life assurance. If your solicitor cannot advise then perhaps you need to talk to a mortgage broker?


----------



## PADDYSTREET (9 Jun 2007)

Help required on this one for me please. I am fifty and my wife is close behind. We have no mortage and our youngest is 14.I want to get life assurance for both of us. A good value one with peace of mind just in case anything should happen to us. This would be great weight off my mind to get this sorted


----------



## okay (9 Jun 2007)

ClubMan said:


> Have you already selected a lender or are you still shopping around? As you obviously know in situations such as this lenders may (bit are not obliged to) waive the normal requirement for owner occupier mortgage protection life assurance. If your solicitor cannot advise then perhaps you need to talk to a mortgage broker?


With affordable housing I can only go to the EBS or Bank of Ireland. I have the mortgage all arranged now through the EBS. Solicitor says it is up to the EBS if they are willing to give a waiver. How would I go about finding a good broker?


----------



## ClubMan (9 Jun 2007)

OK - if you are restricted to those two lenders then a broker may not be any help. Are you awaiting word back from _EBS _on the waiver? Have you applied to BoI just to see how they treat the situation?


----------



## MugsGame (9 Jun 2007)

Your wife should be able to get single cover (at an increased premium!), so you'd then only need a waiver for yourself. 

Do either of you have any other life assurance, perhaps built in to a pension at work? While you can't assign this to the bank, they will take some comfort from it, and it may make it easier to get a waiver.


----------



## okay (9 Jun 2007)

EBS told me to wait until I have the mri scan before applying for the waiver just in case I will then be offered life insurance if the mri is clear. The man in the ebs said I would be better off applying when I knew the exact situation. I have decided to pay for the mri in order to get it quicker. I believe I can get it within two weeks if I pay. I didnt apply to the bank of Ireland. I might inquire how they would handle it. My wife cant get single cover. She has about €60,000 death in service benifit from her work, she also has an accident policy for €40,000 which can be increased to €200,000. I have nothing other than pension. I was thinking a broker may be abe to help with the insurance as we can go to anyone for that. If we get some kind of insurance than the mortgage will be fine.


----------



## MugsGame (9 Jun 2007)

Suppose you get the all clear. Who has suggested that your wife, who cannot get cover on her own, will be able to get cover jointly with you? That seems unlikely to me, though I know nothing about how insurance companies decide these things. If you can get cover, there should be a good chance of her getting a waiver, given her death in service benefit.


----------



## sevenlights (9 Jun 2007)

Perhaps Im being a little nieve here but when asked all those questions for the cover why did you give them that information?  I have had plenty of morgages and my answer was no to everything


----------



## MugsGame (9 Jun 2007)

> my answer was no to everything



Assuming the true answer to some of the questions was yes, what you've done invalidates the insurance contract. Not that it will bother you if you are dead, but it might bother your spouse if it's joint cover! Also, if you tell one insurance company, you have to tell any subsequent companies you deal with, as they can find out anyway. Lastly, it could be construed as fraud.

All that said, I think single buyers should be legally entitled to a mortgage without life cover. The bank has the property as security, so they are no worse off, unless they are being reckless with valuations. I believe the law is wrong, and would have some sympathy with single buyers who find the cheapest way to "comply" with the law... (which might be to fraudulently answer yes to everything, in order to get a waiver!).


----------



## okay (9 Jun 2007)

sevenlights said:


> Perhaps Im being a little nieve here but when asked all those questions for the cover why did you give them that information? I have had plenty of morgages and my answer was no to everything


To be honest I wish to God I had answered no to everything! I didnt tell them about my mri or about all the meds my wife is on, my doctor did. He seemed to just give them our whole file. I was a bit annoyed with him about this but he said that he gets in 5 requests from life insurance companies per day and he cant spend all his time filing out all the forms so he just gives them a copy of the patients file instead. He said it is common practice. Do the insurance companies share details with each other?


----------



## okay (9 Jun 2007)

MugsGame said:


> Suppose you get the all clear. Who has suggested that your wife, who cannot get cover on her own, will be able to get cover jointly with you? That seems unlikely to me, though I know nothing about how insurance companies decide these things. If you can get cover, there should be a good chance of her getting a waiver, given her death in service benefit.


If I get the all clear my wife still wont be able to get cover with me but I thought the bank may look more favourable on us for a waiver for one person rather than two.


----------



## ClubMan (9 Jun 2007)

okay said:


> To be honest I wish to God I had answered no to everything! I didnt tell them about my mri or about all the meds my wife is on, my doctor did. He seemed to just give them our whole file. I was a bit annoyed with him about this but he said that he gets in 5 requests from life insurance companies per day and he cant spend all his time filing out all the forms so he just gives them a copy of the patients file instead. He said it is common practice. Do the insurance companies share details with each other?


To lie on such an application would not be prudent and would render the cover null and void. Not a good idea!


----------



## dee06 (12 Jun 2007)

okay said:


> To be honest I wish to God I had answered no to everything! I didnt tell them about my mri or about all the meds my wife is on, my doctor did. He seemed to just give them our whole file. I was a bit annoyed with him about this but he said that he gets in 5 requests from life insurance companies per day and he cant spend all his time filing out all the forms so he just gives them a copy of the patients file instead. He said it is common practice. Do the insurance companies share details with each other?


 
Jeez I'd consider changing doctors. That's very arrogant and I've never heard of that kind of unnecessary disclosure. He should only be giving the requested information. I bet the insurance companies are delighted with him.

I'd say try and get cover for your wife alone, get a waiver for yourself for now to get over the problem and apply again after your MRI.  EBS are fairly  willing with the waivers in my own experience, once you've been refused.


----------



## ClubMan (12 Jun 2007)

dee06 said:


> That's very arrogant and I've never heard of that kind of unnecessary disclosure. He should only be giving the requested information.


For all we know that is what he did. The original poster said that "he seemed to give them our whole file" but presented no evidence of this actually happening. 

I presume that the individual must give the _GP _authorisation to divulge any info? I know that my _GP _cleared it with me before passing info on to an insurance company but this could have been out of courtesy and I could have signed something allowing for this beforehand anyway.

One way or another it makes no sense to lie on an application form or fail to divulge any material facts since this will most likely render any cover null and void.


----------



## PM1234 (13 Jun 2007)

okay said:


> Do the insurance companies share details with each other?


 
Life companies share information on a register. If someone has been loaded and/or declined this information will appear on the register. 

Non disclosure of known medical conditions invalidates future claims. Since the life company requested medical history reports from your GP, if they were unhappy with the information originally provided by the GP in all probability they would have written again for further clarification and the information would have been provided. 

Depending on the severity of your wife's condition it is common to be loaded if not declined. 

Check with the second lender to see if they will load rather than decline and failing that ask for refusals in writing so you can present a case for having the cover waived.


----------



## RS2K (13 Jun 2007)

A couple of observations:-

EBS do not underwrite life assurance. They have a group scheme (with Caledonian Life I think).

The letter detailing the reason(s) for declinature will only ever issue to your G.P.

Non disclosure can be serious, but will only affect a future claim should the inforamtion be "material" to the claim. I had a case where a man died of a heart condition, and had not disclosed existing hiogh blood pressure. The premiums were refunded and claim refused. Rightly too.

p.s. I have dealt with all the Insurers pretty frequently, and have found Caledonian to be quite reasonable in relation to underwriting. 

I reckon your best bet is for the lender to waive the need for life cover on medical grounds. Ask them.


----------



## ClubMan (13 Jun 2007)

RS2K said:


> EBS do not underwrite life assurance. They have a group scheme (with Caledonian Life I think).


They used to deal with a panel of underwriters in the late 90s.


----------



## RS2K (13 Jun 2007)

ILAC now have the EBS group scheme I'm told.


----------



## okay (13 Jun 2007)

RS2K said:


> A couple of observations:-
> 
> EBS do not underwrite life assurance. They have a group scheme (with Caledonian Life I think).
> 
> ...


The Mortgage protection I appied for was through the ebs as I am getting my mortgage from them but it is actually by Irish Life. The gp still hasnt received the letter from irish life so I rang them yesterday and they are issuing it again. I paid to have the mri done early, getting it done tommorrow in fact hope to have the results next week and if it is all clear I will then apply for the insurance again for me and a waiver for my wife. Thanks for all the replies.


----------



## ClubMan (13 Jun 2007)

okay said:


> I didnt tell them about my mri or about all the meds my wife is on, my doctor did. He seemed to just give them our whole file.





okay said:


> The gp still hasnt received the letter from irish life so I rang them yesterday and they are issuing it again.


Eh? Are you not contradicting yourself here?


----------



## okay (13 Jun 2007)

ClubMan said:


> Eh? Are you not contradicting yourself here?


Not really sure what you mean - by letter I mean the letter the insurance company send to the doctor telling him the medical reasons why they refused my wife - I assume you think I was talking about the letter they send looking for details.


----------



## ClubMan (13 Jun 2007)

Yes - that's why I was confused.


----------

