# stock market trading software



## 33cl (2 Jul 2007)

i've been spreadbetting some of the US/UK/commodity markets for a couple years part time but wanted to get more involved. At the moment I'm just reading various market-related online forums or newspapers to get ideas on what to long or short. Mostly I choose shares, etc by technical analysis thus I need some kind of software w/ daily data feed & good charts that may also alert as to possible entry points (I'm not asking for much, am I!!!). 

There seems to be tons of these on the web, mostly american. Is there any good local (Irish/UK/European) software out there? I'd go for a US one as well if it included a fair amnt of global markets (HK, Jpn, Europe, etc).


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## Guest120 (2 Jul 2007)

Reuters.

Mind you it will cost a small fortune.


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## croker (3 Jul 2007)

Maybe you want something like stockfetcher.com
basically what you can do is create filters for various technical events
(you can also screen for some fundamentals).
Then each day before the market opens, run your filters to give you a list of stocks to target for the day/week/whatever.
you can also backtest your filters.


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## Paul d (4 Jul 2007)

33cl

Just curious as to which technical indicators you have found useful in your own experience in the areas you mentioned? Just finished reading a book on technical analysis.

Also do you or have you used Delta Index? If so how have you found them?

Cheers


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## Del3D (4 Jul 2007)

Paul d said:


> Just finished reading a book on technical analysis.



Make sure you *also *read the book "A Random Walk Down Wall Street" by Burton G. Malkiel (see here) It is the best book I have ever read on investing in stock markets.


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## daveccork (4 Jul 2007)

Hi all,

I apologise in advance for deviating from the initial question.



> Also do you or have you used Delta Index? If so how have you found them?


 
Was with Delta Index until recently due to their marketing and "ireland's best" etc etc. My own stupidity i know - recently moved to igindex and have found them great - much larger variety of markets and tighter spreads. margin requirements are much smaller depending on what stop losses you use.



> Just finished reading a book on technical analysis


what book did you read? 33cl could you recommend some books?


I would be interested in hearing views on the software 33cl is enquiring about.


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## Paul d (5 Jul 2007)

Hi Dave,

Got a link from Delta Index for the simulator and also was surprised how limited their choice of shares, indices and commodities was. Quite disappointed. 

Technical analysis book was technical analysis for dummies ordered from Amazon. May not be the most sophisticated book ever written in the area but for someone new to the suject you could do alot worse. Easy to read with good examples, would definitely recommend it.

What other issues did you have with Delta?

Cheeers


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## gonk (5 Jul 2007)

IG Index has a raft of excellent charting and other research resources which are free for account holders to use.


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## daveccork (5 Jul 2007)

I found Delta Index good to deal with and was happy until i looked around. IG index has a huge choice of markets (i was impressed with the low liquidity irish shares they offered prices on e.g. Blackrock, Newcourt etc. I could find almost anything i went looking for)

Margin requirements were much lower also. IG Index allows a controlled risk trade so, for example, you open a position and put a stop loss at such a level that you are willing to lose, then margin requirment is set accordingly. e.g. you go long on dax sept at €10 per point and set your stop loss 60 points below current price then your margin tied up will be €600. With delta index IMR is 350 per point so that you are would need to have €700 of margin just to open a €2 position. Now, I know that there are risks with the IG index option i.e. tight margins mean positions don't get much room to move and high volatility can close out positions very quickly. Also the tempation is there to open very large positions!!

As gonk said they have good research options and charting options.


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## croker (5 Jul 2007)

> Got a link from Delta Index for the simulator and also was surprised how limited their choice of shares, indices and commodities was. Quite disappointed


In fairness the real account has more products available than the simulator. But for me, it is not enough.



> What other issues did you have with Delta?


Some shares that i have traded on Delta before have been removed for some reason. This messes things up if you waste time researching a stock for example and then go to trade it and it has disappeared!

Thanks alot to the guys who mentioned IG Index cos I have checked them out and it looks great. All transactions can be done in euro too.


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## gonk (5 Jul 2007)

croker said:


> Thanks alot to the guys who mentioned IG Index cos I have checked them out and it looks great. All transactions can be done in euro too.


 
A lot of markets are available from IG Index for Euro bets, but not all. For example, silver and crude oil aren't.


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## gonk (5 Jul 2007)

daveccork said:


> e.g. you go long on dax sept at €10 per point and set your stop loss 60 points below current price then your margin tied up will be €600. . . . Now, I know that there are risks with the IG index option i.e. tight margins mean positions don't get much room to move and high volatility can close out positions very quickly. Also the tempation is there to open very large positions!!


 
You're not kidding! The above scenario would result in you being stopped out and losing all your margin by a mere 0.75% fall in the index. That's way too tight IMHO . . .


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## daveccork (5 Jul 2007)

gonk said:


> You're not kidding! The above scenario would result in you being stopped out and losing all your margin by a mere 0.75% fall in the index. That's way too tight IMHO . . .


 
agreed - used purely as an example of how the thing works. one of the major dangers


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## Paul d (5 Jul 2007)

Thanks for the information lads.

Have any you guys applied Mark shipman theories 
i.e. buying when the closing weekly high is the highest of the last 12 weeks, its above the 40 week moving avearge and this average is trending upwards etc.
on the whole field of commodities (stock, indices, commodities) through spread betting? If so any comments good bad or indifferent?


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## gonk (5 Jul 2007)

Paul d said:


> Have any you guys applied Mark shipman theories


 
I've read the book and it makes good sense as far as it goes, but there are noticeable gaps, especially in how to decide when to exit a position.

I'm looking at a couple of markets at the minute with a view to trying out his strategy and I've reviewed a couple of open positions in light of his book.


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## Paul d (5 Jul 2007)

Gonk,

Agree with you on him not giving great depth to or time to exit strategies. A bit vague really.

Thats why I got the technical analysis for dummies book as a starting point to gaining greater insight in the whole area.

The general thrust of his book on demand from the far east does appear to make sense though.

Just had a quick look at the IG site.

Did any of you lads try their "tradsense trial" for 6 weeks, if so any comments?

What was involved in setting up an account with them?


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## gonk (5 Jul 2007)

Paul d said:


> Gonk,
> The general thrust of his book on demand from the far east does appear to make sense though.


 
If you have a look at his website, though, you'll see seven out of nine open investment positions listed are in equity indices, with only two in commodities.

Doesn't invalidate his arguments as to why commodities may see large price increases in the coming years, but would certainly suggest that he sees greater potential in equities in the near term.

http://www.trend-follower.com


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## Elphaba (5 Jul 2007)

Although two of his investments are directly in commodities, can you not argue that the nifty fifty index is indirectly related to commodites.
Some of niftys stocks are coca cola, avon, pepsi, various drug companies (walt disney is in there,) general electric and so on.... So am I right in saying that his Index investments is investing directly in companies?
and that commodities are all raw materials? ?


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## Paul d (5 Jul 2007)

Elphaba,

By investing in the indices like the Nikkei and Hang Seng he is indirectly tracking what is happening in that part of the world but not investing directly in companies themselves. He comments in his book that by investing in indices like these you are not as open to some of the shocks that you get with individual companies like reduced earnings, stikes etc.

It is interesting looking at his site and I have been like yourself Gonk that he has recently opened a position on gold, one of the commodities he talks up in the book. I havent looked at the chart for gold in a number of days but dont remember it following his rules, maybe it has started to move upward and shares of companies in this area may start to rise aslo.

He also recently opened a position on the FTSE. I'm new to this lark but thought the FTSE had already been rising for a number of years and may be due some level of a drop?

Also interesting that he is backing the DAX so seems to think the German economy is on the move and is probably why we in Ireland are getting consecutive interest rate hikes.

33 cl the author at the end of technical analysis for dummies book says "the most user friendly software is Metastock by equis (www.equis.com). It comes with preset indicators, user guide and data to get you started. At the equis web site, you can also download a free copy of the book by Steve Achelis, Technical Analysis from A to Z".


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## gonk (5 Jul 2007)

Elphaba said:


> Although two of his investments are directly in commodities, can you not argue that the nifty fifty index is indirectly related to commodites.
> Some of niftys stocks are coca cola, avon, pepsi, various drug companies (walt disney is in there,) general electric and so on.... So am I right in saying that his Index investments is investing directly in companies?
> and that commodities are all raw materials?


 
Firstly, your wires are crossed there - the Nifty Fifty Shipman is referring to is an index of major _Indian _stocks.

Secondly, while all companies are affected to a greater or lesser extent by commodity prices, energy in particular, I wouldn't regard an equity investment as being equivalent to a commodity investment.

Effectively, yes commodities are all raw materials (with the possible exception of precious metals).


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## gonk (5 Jul 2007)

Paul d said:


> He also recently opened a position on the FTSE. I'm new to this lark but thought the FTSE had already been rising for a number of years and may be due some level of a drop?


 
You're right, it has been rising steadily for about 4 1/2 years. Before that though, it _had_ a near 50% drop between Jan 2000 and Jan 2003. It's still not quite back up to its Jan 2000 peak.

Is it due a drop now? I've no idea - watch the trend


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## Elphaba (5 Jul 2007)

Thanks for clarifications. I've been tracking the NY Mini gold (YG, CBOT) at www.futures.tradingcharts.com. Great charts, monthly, daily, historical
so you can get a good grasp on a trend. This particular stock peaked in May 06, dropped a fair bit and has been moving sideways since then. Probably a good long term bet...(I thought there was only one nifty fifty index Gonk, seems India are catching up... )


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## croker (6 Jul 2007)

> Thanks for clarifications. I've been tracking the NY Mini gold (YG, CBOT) at www.futures.tradingcharts.com. Great charts, monthly, daily, historical
> so you can get a good grasp on a trend. This particular stock peaked in May 06, dropped a fair bit and has been moving sideways since then. Probably a good long term bet...(I thought there was only one nifty fifty index Gonk, seems India are catching up... )


That's a good link, thanks.
My reading of the gold chart is that the daily chart is showing a downtrend, characterised by a series of lower highs and lower lows.
The weekly chart is just about holding an uptrend.
But the interesting thing is the volume is increasing on the daily chart downtrend and volume is decreasing in the weekly chart uptrend. This would indicate to me that the uptrend is running out of steam(lack of interest), for the moment anyway. 
This ties up with the idea about the commodity speculators moving to crops such as corn but they could move back to gold.


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## Elphaba (7 Jul 2007)

I'm just a swivel chair trend follower at the moment. Just bought Trend Following by M. Covel. Interesting to see how gold will move over coming months. Oil has risen again due to Nigerian violence, whats that all about.
I'm seriously thinking of investing in GSCI (Goldman sachs comm. index)
which is made up of about 70% oil. Its called the matrix funds,  (www.eaglestarlife.ie) they charge 1%. Min. investment is 5000, and you can split it (I think) between any one of their 10 funds, i.e. 5 star global, 5 star asia pacific, eurozone equity, (I wouldn't touch irish) Japan index etc... They all seem like strong performing funds. I enjoy trend following its putting it into practice, thats the tricky bit. Although on futures.tradingcharts they advertise a trading software called Venture, cud be worth a look, but I'd say its expensive. I've still a way to go in understanding the technical details but I think part of trend following is also intuitive.


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## 33cl (16 Jul 2007)

Paul d said:


> 33cl
> 
> Just curious as to which technical indicators you have found useful in your own experience in the areas you mentioned? Just finished reading a book on technical analysis.
> 
> ...


 
I use a variety of methods. I tend to follow trend lines a lot, looking for entry points based on prior highs or lows. Moving averages are useful too but only as a general guide along with the RSI and MACD indicators. I tend to ignore volume as well because price action rules at the end of the day.
I'd look for longer term trends based on 1 & 2 year charts mostly (no day trading). As a secondary method, I'd look at double top/bottom patterns, rising/falling flags. You do see the odd head and shoulders pattern now and again which can also be useful. Patterns seem to be hyped up a lot by technical analysis gurus and I've never found them to be of primary importance when spreadbetting/trading.

I've never used Delta tbh, I wonder what their range of indices/shares would be compared to the UK firms.


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## croker (23 Jul 2007)

Just set up the IG Index account.
Question for the fellow IG Indexers - 
I'm wondering if anyone has had success registering an Irish Laser card with them? Tried to set it up over the phone but they couldnt do it. 
Obviously i'd prefer the laser than credit cards cos there is no charge, and i have to put other stuff on the CC.
They told me to check with my bank but i've used the card for ages with no problem(as recently as Saturday) and its loaded with cash.


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## Paul d (23 Jul 2007)

Croker,

Also in the process of setting up an Ig account. Spoke to a guy on the phone there this morning about transferring money and he said that they have an account in A.I.B. in Dublin so you should be able to set it up to transfer money on line to that account and not need to use your laser card? 

Are you planning to use their Tradesense programme? If you do would be interested in your thoughts.

Have been using the Delta index simulator and its a disaster. e.g. stops did not kick in when they were supposed to, the option to amend orders is not coming up anymore etc. It appears potential customers are working as debugging technicians. Not very inspiring.

Cheers


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## croker (24 Jul 2007)

Thanks Paul d, i got the AIB account details for a bank transfer.
That'll do for now anyway.

No wont be doing the tradesense thing, i've already used DeltaIndex for about a year so i'm well up on how it works. Took me a while to get into it but i've found a style that works for me now so i'm sticking to it. 

First impressions of IG Index are very good. There is a huge range of products to trade which was my main gripe with DeltaIndex. Never really had any problems DI to be fair but if IG are up to the mark i'll stick with them.

I hope you got a feel for how it works anyway in the Simulator even if it wasnt that good - that's the main thing, try it out without risking your money.


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## Paul d (24 Jul 2007)

Cheers Croker,

Will do. Think you can start off with 10p bets, so yeah will try and crawl before I walk.
What areas do you trade yourself ?
Would be interested in any insight you can share on the setting stop losses?


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## PMI (24 Jul 2007)

Can anybody give me the access link to IG Index


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## raffles (25 Jul 2007)

Error - ignore post.


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## Paul d (25 Jul 2007)

There you go PMI.............

www.igindex.co.uk


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## Der (25 Jul 2007)

daveccork said:


> Hi all,
> 
> I apologise in advance for deviating from the initial question.
> 
> ...


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## Der (25 Jul 2007)

Hi -- in my opinion the best book by far on TA is John J Murphy's 'TA of the Financial Markets' , study guide can accompany same which is essential if you're serious about investing! It's expensive but you won't need any other TA book -- you can borrow mine if you like. The Digitallook website is excellent for checking all fundamentals AND for examining charts -- they're also very helpful if you have any queries. Good luck!
Der


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## daveccork (26 Jul 2007)

Hi Der

Thanks for that - I will buy it today. There is a massive amount of material out there so it is great to get a recommendation. I have read through a lot of online material about TA. Thanks also for the offer of borrowing your copy, very kind.

Also, trading with IG index gives you access to a variety of research / news / analysis resources. Has anybody been using / looking at tradingcentral.com. Provides daily technical analysis on indices, forex, individual shares etc. If people have used this resource how have they found it? I have mixed feelings but would be interested to hear if people find any aspect of it worthwhile. Well worth a look for those of you who haven't seen it (access is free through igindex, otherwise i think it is subscription)

Thanks

Dave


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## croker (26 Jul 2007)

> What areas do you trade yourself ?
> Would be interested in any insight you can share on the setting stop losses?


 
I've come full circle cos i started first with US stocks before i knew anything about TA and lost money on them. Then moved to commodities and Indices. Now i've researched all about TA and gone back to US stocks cos i find they work best.

One of my main strategies is buying stocks as they bounce off the moving averages.
In this case I just put the stop a little below the MA and when the stock moves up, move the stop up to protect profits(like a trailing stop with a broker).
If the price falls through the MA it hits the stop for a small loss. 
(I try and have the spread+stop distance equal to a small percentage of my total cash, say 2-5%)
What i'm banking on here is that the probability that the price will move up
from the MA is higher than the probability that it will go below the MA. I've checked this using backtesting software and it works well in up-trending markets. The other thing i am banking on is that when it does move
up it moves up by a good few percent, i.e. a real bounce. So even if the number of losers is greater than the number of winners, the gains for the wins are much greater than the losses for the losers.

IG Index has some backtesting software but i'm having some problems using it and it wont save any backtest code i write. Anyone used it?



> Has anybody been using / looking at tradingcentral.com.


Will take a look at it. Don't really know what to make of it at the moment.


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## Paul d (26 Jul 2007)

Croker,

Thanks for the reply. Its that bit where you say you put the stop a little below the moving average that I am interested in. 
For example would half the daily range of the share price in say the last 10 days plus say another 10 or 20% down from the buy price of the spread make sense?
I know this will be personal to every trader but is there a general 'rule of thumb' for where to set your stop loss such that you dont lose too much if the trade moves against you while trying not be stopped out of the market by normal price fluctuations??

Also from any of you guys, would be interested to know your opinions on the one or two of the best technical indicators from the long list available that there is about to be a change in the price of a share.

Going back to Mark Shipman book and his use of moving averages. They are a lagging indiactor and you could have lost a lot of potential profit if you exit by solely using moving averages?


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## gonk (26 Jul 2007)

Paul d said:


> Going back to Mark Shipman book and his use of moving averages. They are a lagging indiactor and you could have lost a lot of potential profit if you exit by solely using moving averages?


 
He does advise this himself in his book, but he is a bit vague about how you do judge where to exit - a fair bit of waffle about reading the papers and asking your postman if he's invested in commodities yet.

That said, his advice not to remain invested in a market where price has gone below the 40 week moving average is what convinced me to get out of the ISEQ 20 ETF last week. Certainly glad I did - it's down a further 10% since. I reckon I've made a 25,000% return on investment on the price of the book!


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## charttrader (26 Jul 2007)

_For example would half the daily range of the share price in say the last 10 days plus say another 10 or 20% down from the buy price of the spread make sense?
I know this will be personal to every trader but is there a general 'rule of thumb' for where to set your stop loss such that you dont lose too much if the trade moves against you while trying not be stopped out of the market by normal price fluctuations??

_IMHO, it doesn't make much sense to use percentage stops.  Better to place your stop under an area of expected technical support and then decide your bet size.  For example - let's say you don't want to lose more than 300 euro on any one trade.  You want to buy a stock at, say, $19.90.  You notice that there is notable chart support at $19 (eg, moving average, etc), so you place your stop under here ($18.90 approx).  Your max loss is 300 euro, the distance between your purchase price and your stop is 100 cents, therefore you bet 3 euro per point.  If the distance was 50 cents, you could bet up to 6 euro per point, and so on.  You'll find that you will get stopped out much more frequently if you use percentage stops rather than stops based on the chart._

Also from any of you guys, would be interested to know your opinions on the one or two of the best technical indicators from the long list available 

_Moving averages on a nice candlestick chart.  Simple but effective.   I agree very much with what Croker said regarding MAs on trending issues.   Volume is important.  Retracements areas are important. I would not get hung up on specific indicators - price (support/resistance) will tell you more any day.  An overbought/oversold indicator (eg, stochastics/cci/rsi) can be useful, although they have their drawbacks.  I would pick one rather than studying them all in detail - not a huge difference really._

Going back to Mark Shipman book and his use of moving averages. They are a lagging indiactor and you could have lost a lot of potential profit if you exit by solely using moving averages?

_Have not read the book although I know his time frame is much longer than mine.  If you use a long term MA (eg, 200 day) to decide your exit, yes, you'll end up losing a lot of your profits.  For example, despite today's carnage on Wall Street, the 200-MA remains 600 points or so away. If I had bought the Dow back in March, I would have brought my stop up to the 50-day ma rather than the 200-ma (would have been stopped out today).  It depends on your time frame although you just have to accept that you will never get out at an exact top - no indicator will tell you that.


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## daveccork (26 Jul 2007)

Hi guys,

have found all the discussion here quite interesting. not many such discussions on AAM. Can anybody recommend a site / forum where TA is discussed and perhaps people share some of their thoughts?


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## Paul d (26 Jul 2007)

Thanks for that charttrader. I can see the sense in what you are saying about looking for a point of support on the chart as a guide to position the stop loss rather than having a fixed 'rule of thumb'.


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## croker (26 Jul 2007)

> For example, despite today's carnage on Wall Street


Take a look at the Dow Jones for a text book example of technical analysis today.
Draw a horizontal line on the daily chart where the previous support was found , around 13,380. Switch to the intraday chart(e.g 30mins) and see what happened today - it was basically in freefall and when it hit 13,380 it bounced back up another 150 points.

I dont trade indices day to day but when there is a big move like today its useful to look ahead at where it might be headed and if there is a possible bounce. Dont try and predict it, just wait for the confirmation. If you were using a candlestick chart today you would have seen it as a doji indicating reversal and then a green candlestick moving up to confirm.


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## croker (27 Jul 2007)

> have found all the discussion here quite interesting. not many such discussions on AAM. Can anybody recommend a site / forum where TA is discussed and perhaps people share some of their thoughts?


Yea, http://www.trade2win.com/boards/


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## charttrader (27 Jul 2007)

_ Take a look at the Dow Jones for a text book example of technical analysis today.
Draw a horizontal line on the daily chart where the previous support was found , around 13,380. Switch to the intraday chart(e.g 30mins) and see what happened today - it was basically in freefall and when it hit 13,380 it bounced back up another 150 points.

_True, although TA sceptics can point out that it cut through technical support earlier - the 50-day ma (13600) was pierced like it wasn't there.

Intra-day traders should check out yesterday's US action on the 5 and 15 minute charts with 10 and 20 period moving averges (EMAs rather than SMAs).   Going short on bounces to the 5-min EMAs was profitable right up to 3 p.m.   Once that level was surmounted,  the market rallies only for sellers to re-emerge at  the 20 EMA  on the 15-min chart.  Textbook stuff.


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## Dinarius (19 Aug 2010)

gonk said:


> You're right, it has been rising steadily for about 4 1/2 years. Before that though, it _had_ a near 50% drop between Jan 2000 and Jan 2003. It's still not quite back up to its Jan 2000 peak.
> 
> Is it due a drop now? I've no idea - watch the trend



Just found this thread because I did a search for Metastock.

Extraordinary what is hinted at in a few of the posts given the date of the thread - July 2007. Did any of you go short?!

I used to use Metastock a lot up to about 10-15 years ago, but got out of trading when I invested in property - which I sold in 2005 - phew!

I now want to get back to trading on a small scale. I've been in touch with Metastock about buying the current version. Mine won't work with current end-of-day-data (EOD) vendors.

1. Anyone here using Metastock and, if so, who are you getting your EOD from?

2. My tip for a book well worth reading is "Trading for a Living" by Alexander Elder.

3. Is IG Index still the recommended online broker three years on from when this thread was first active?

Thanks.

D.


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## croker (20 Aug 2010)

> I now want to get back to trading on a small scale. I've been in touch with Metastock about buying the current version. Mine won't work with current end-of-day-data (EOD) vendors.
> 
> 1. Anyone here using Metastock and, if so, who are you getting your EOD from?
> 
> ...


check out MLDownloader. It's a one off cost of something like $50 and you use it to pull EOD data from sites like yahoo etc. for free. No need to pay a monthly fee!

And for real-time data, people don't realise they can throw a 100 euro into someone like IG index and get free real-time data, not need to pay some monthly fee for that! Alright, the Spread betters make their own data but imo you can use it as a proxy for the real market. Well in fact for US shares i've seen no difference between the two. A downside though is IG do have alot of US shares but not all. So you'll miss out on some. So you could use IG to get your real-time quotes and then some cheap broker to do the trades.


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## Kristopher (20 Sep 2010)

Stock market trading software is very crucial because of its technical indicators. These indicators are a powerful source of confirmation for any particular pattern or trend formation in a stock. This software will also represent a wealth of knowledge about the balance of stock market.


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## ecstatic (20 Sep 2010)

+1 to elder and +1 to link.

I use Ninjatrader.


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