# Tenants 5 months behind in rent?



## Yellow Belly (11 Sep 2014)

I have an apartment rented to the same tenants since Aug 2011- initially was a 12 month lease which I registered with PRTB however I never renewed the lease but just simply left them in situ on the same rent/terms etc.

They did get into rent arrears in 2012/13 but paid a lump sum and increased the weekly rent until it was cleared. This has now happened again only this time they owe me 5 months rent in total & have no lump sum but instead want me to increase the rent to allow them to catch up (will take 18 months to catch up on what they want to pay). They are in receipt of rent allowance so were getting this money but just not paying me!!

In the middle of all this and while I was trying establish exactly what they owe me- they come back with receipts for maintenance which they say they had done (without informing me or my consent) and the receipts simply "chits" rather than vat receipts? They want me to deduct these costs off the rent due? 99% of the maintenance was required because they broke items/appliances rather than malfunctions.

It is not surprising that they are not in employment as they are borderline delusional- they want to call the shots and set all terms while owing me substantial rent? Personally I want to go there today & put their belongings in black sacks but how much notice are the entitled to legally? The fact that I never renewed the lease or PRTB listing - what are the reprecussions of that? Should I contact Social Welfare to let them know that the tenants have not been paying rent?

What advice does anyone have? Anyone been in this situation before?


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## cremeegg (11 Sep 2014)

You need to decide first of all whether you want to keep dealing with these people in order to get your money back, or you want to get rid of them as soon as possible in order to avoid further arrears.

I suggest that you want to get rid.

I do not believe that you needed to update the PRTB as the same lease is still in place. You can go to the PRTB and look up what to do when the tenant is failing in their obligations under the lease, i.e. failing to pay rent. Basically you have to serve notice that they have failed to pay rent give them a time to pay and if they don't then give them notice to quit.

From the PRTB

"If the breach concerns non-payment of rent in relation to a tenancy of 6 months or more, notice must be served stating
that the tenant is in arrears of rent and providing a reasonable amount of time to remedy the breach. If after that reasonable amount of time has passed without the breach being remedied,
a further notice must be served informing the tenant that an amount of rent is due and giving 14 days to pay those rent arrears. If the tenant fails to pay the rent due within 14 days of receipt of the notice the landlord may serve a valid Notice of Termination giving 28 days notice."

I suggest you inform them immediately!

This is going to cost you but the sooner you act the less it will cost.

I have been in this situation, but not 5 MONTHS, and I was lucky, the tenant left. If they don't leave you are in serious trouble.

Good luck!


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## GDUFFY (11 Sep 2014)

http://www.irishlandlord.com/index.aspx?page=faq&answer=48#answer

Some good info on this website. As you may know ,notices and letters of termination must follow strict guidelines.


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## Yellow Belly (11 Sep 2014)

Thanks for the replied- very helpful.

My wife who usually deals with all this is just checking to make sure she did register this lease with PRTB- what if she didn't? We have a number of investment properties and she was sure she had registered this one but can't seem to find any registration details. Is this a game changer?

To be honest I just want these people out & don't mind leaving myself open legally to achieve this as these guys won't have the gall to pursue me. I think they will simply move on to the next unsuspecting landlord to rip off


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## Bronte (11 Sep 2014)

Yellow Belly said:


> Is this a game changer?
> 
> To be honest I just want these people out & don't mind leaving myself open legally to achieve this as these guys won't have the gall to pursue me. I think they will simply move on to the next unsuspecting landlord to rip off


 
Relax, you can still register, right now this minute online. You just have to pay on the double. 

I'm surprised you mention other properties and you're not really au fait with the PRTB which is odd? 

Don't understand either how you let social welfare tenants not pass on the rent for SO long?

You've a few options

1. Proper notice, and risk it taking a couple of years, and having to go to court at your own cost, while getting zero rent

2. Evicting them, risking about 10K fine from the PRTB

3. Cajoling or bribing them out.

I wouldn't say your tenant's are borderline delusional, they are playing you and winning, they've gained 5 months no rent, they've diddled the social welfare system, they've now moved to chancing their arm with 'repairs' and 'chits'

Option 1 & 2 both risk them leaving you a parting gift.


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## Yellow Belly (11 Sep 2014)

Thanks for the info Bronte.

My wife usually deals with tenants/PRTB/mortgages etc which is why I am such an amateur on these matters and these fiends simply took advantage of a time when she very ill. I would almost get 10 grands worth of satisfaction in drop kicking them into the street (preferably at 6am on a wet freezing morning in their pj's!!) LOL!


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## cremeegg (11 Sep 2014)

Bronte said:


> You've a few options
> 
> 
> 2. Evicting them, risking about 10K fine from the PRTB



In practice how would the fine be enforced. Is it like a PRTB award which can simply be ignored or is it like a court fine where you can be jailed for non-payment ?


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## Time (11 Sep 2014)

The former tenants would have to make a claim to the PRTB who would make an award. They would then have to enforce it through the courts if they wanted the money.


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## Dermot (11 Sep 2014)

You can still renew your PRTB registration without penalty for €90 as you have the same tenants for the last 4 years if the tenancy commenced after the 13/08/2014.  You can do it online and you may have got a letter about this in the last month.  If you breach the law the PRTB are only too willing to act for free on your tenants behalf and screw the landlord.


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## AlbacoreA (11 Sep 2014)

Yellow Belly said:


> ...It is not surprising that they are not in employment as they are borderline delusional- they want to call the shots and set all terms while owing me substantial rent? ....



They've manged to get two interest free loans from you, while damaging your property, and you've let them off this time for 5 months. Delusional? no offence but they seem to have an excellent grasp of what they are doing. 

If you can get them to pay off arrears slowly, that might be your best approach.  I would give them a chance, as they paid it back before.  If they miss any payment I would give them notice and encourage them to leave. But I would lay good odds, that if you kick them out, you'll not get any of that money back. You might even get fined on top. if they are true scammers, they'll know its cheaper to leave. If they are just poor at managing themselves, they might actually try to pay off their arrears. 

 In the long run, life too short for this messing and only you can decide when enough is enough. If you can't keep an eye on the property it might be cheaper to pay someone else to manage them. Better than letting it slide and huge arrears to build up.  

I wouldn't rush in heavy handed. That said I wouldn't let 5 or 6k of losses turn into 10 or 20k losses either.


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## Dermot (11 Sep 2014)

Yellow Belly.  You have got a lot of excellent advice here.  You and your wife need to up your game and you need to be more proactive in the future.  You need to start serving the notices to get them out. The first one is a 14 day notice and there is a very strict procedure for compiling and serving this notice.  You should do some reading on the PRTB website as well as the Irish landlord site which will guide you how to do this.  They seem to be messers and probably see you as not being on top of your game.  No offence meant. Let us know how you are getting on.


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## AlbacoreA (11 Sep 2014)

One other thing. I wouldn't get too stressed about it. Its happens in this business. Not often, but its does happen. The trick to managing is not to take it personally, but to minimize expenses/losses.


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## delgirl (12 Sep 2014)

If you really believe that they are going to pay the arrears as they have done in the past, then I would give them the chance to do so.  But if they're on Welfare and already in debt, that might be difficult for them.

You should go visit the tenants and sit down to make a plan for the repayment of the arrears and get them to sign a Rent Supplement Waiver Form to allow the Community Welfare Office (CWO) to immediately transfer the rent supplement directly into your bank account.  

You can contact the CWO who covers the area where you rental property is located and email or hand-deliver the Rent Supplement Waiver to them also advising that the tenants are 5 months in arrears.

If you need a copy of the Rest Supplement Waiver Form, PM me your email address and I'll email it to you.

Regarding the repairs, you'll have to see which would have been your responsibility and which were the tenants and come to some agreement.  Perhaps they were unaware that they should have reported the need for repairs to you or maybe they did to your wife?  And what do you mean by 'chits' - hand-written receipts?  If so, I wouldn't pay any of those unless you could verify them with the tradesperson who carried out the work.

If you feel there's no solution to the debt and they are messing you around, then the notice to terminate the tenancy would be the way to go, but make sure you do it exactly as the PRTB require.


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## Yellow Belly (12 Sep 2014)

Thank you all so much for your advice.

I registered the property today with PRTB and issued the tenants with 14 days notice to repay outstanding rent and failure to due so will result in me issuing a Notice of Termination. I might as well follow the correct guidelines as if I don't it makes me as bad as these clowns. 

I will post again as this plays out as you guys have been a great help (apart from the info- valuable to blow off steam!!)

Thank you all.


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## Bronte (15 Sep 2014)

cremeegg said:


> In practice how would the fine be enforced. Is it like a PRTB award which can simply be ignored or is it like a court fine where you can be jailed for non-payment ?


 
Don't know, but I know this, PRTB will never chase a tenant for no money, but chasing a landlord who has money and assets is worthwhile.  

PRTB after they have made their 'determination order' would than instruct their lawyers to go after the landlord in court.  Court would order he pay etc.


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## Bronte (15 Sep 2014)

Yellow Belly said:


> Thank you all so much for your advice.
> 
> I registered the property today with PRTB and issued the tenants with 14 days notice to repay outstanding rent and failure to due so will result in me issuing a Notice of Termination. I might as well follow the correct guidelines as if I don't it makes me as bad as these clowns.
> 
> ...


 
I wish you the best of luck with this. Please be aware that your social welfare tenant probably now does not have the deposit to pay for a new place, and no means to get it. You ought to think about that. They might also need a reference, another think you'll have to think about.

Blowing off steam is fine, but you need to act calmly and cooly and by the book.


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## Yellow Belly (15 Sep 2014)

Just a quick update since everyone was so giving with their time/advice:

Issued 14 day notice last week- tenants contacted me this morning having done a full 360 on what their stance was prior to this. Agreeing to pay all ongoing rent + arrears back between now and January 2015 (I will believe it when I see it) but having an agreement drawn up for them to sign whereby rent will now be paid weekly not monthly and that one missed instalment will trigger a Noltice of Termination of lease within 28 days. 

I suppose in reality it is the only chance I have of recouping the rent they owe me already and I will just have to monitor it every week to ensure that the money is being paid.

Thank you all so much again.


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## Bronte (16 Sep 2014)

Yellow Belly said:


> I suppose in reality it is the only chance I have of recouping the rent they owe me already and I will just have to monitor it every week to ensure that the money is being paid.
> 
> .


 
Well done, they clearly really want to stay.  And you are correct, going forward you must monitor it closely and never let it get to this stage again.


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