# Central Credit Register (CCR)



## Nordkapp (13 May 2017)

https://www.centralbank.ie/regulation/consumer-protection/central-credit-register

What is your opinion on the CCR and its effects on getting a loan when it kicks in?

I think it will make getting any loan be it for a car etc more difficult. 

My understanding is that Credit Unions can only get mortgage info from the ICB at the moment whereas the CCR will collate all your loan details. 

I think the CCR will be in operation in the summer?


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## Sarenco (13 May 2017)

The CCR is long overdue and should allow for more accurate pricing of credit risk.

I wouldn't expect it to be up and running before Q1 2018.


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## Tom Finn (14 May 2017)

Is this replacing the Irish Credit Bureau then?


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## Nordkapp (14 May 2017)

Would presume the ICB will disappear. Would be very concerned as to the workings of this, so much personal data with one body is a target for hackers not to mention misuse by the lenders.


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## DublinTexas (14 May 2017)

I'm less concerned about a target for hackers than about the government miss-using the data.


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## Sarenco (14 May 2017)

How would you envisage lenders and/or the Government mis-using a central register of loan data?

Genuine question.

Bear in mind that the Central Bank already has this data in aggregate form.


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## DublinTexas (14 May 2017)

Collecting the data and reporting it out to lenders is one thing, but what stops them from than creating a scoring model that also takes the other data into consideration they have like my day to day spending (which they track as I use cards) combined with my accurate income (which they have from Revenue) plus the data from other sources (like HSE) all under the "protecting consumers" mantra.

Several of the Government departments can't even comply with basic regulations like SEPA due to outdated IT systems. Our data protection commissioner is a joke who only goes after companies if they are forced to. Do I really trust that government is keeping sensitive data like that secure and won't share it with other departments? Nope.

Our government is already tracking massive financial data about individuals and now they start reporting data they collect by law with private companies. What stops them from sneaking in more legislation to share even more of their data.


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## Sarenco (14 May 2017)

I would assume the whole point of the register is to allow for the creation of more accurate credit ratings.  I would have thought that was a good thing as it allows for more accurate pricing of credit risk.

I don't really understand your other points.


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## Tom Finn (15 May 2017)

How does this differ from the ICB? What is the reason behind apparently replacing the ICB ?


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## Sarenco (15 May 2017)

The CCR will be more comprehensive - not all lenders are members of the ICB.

I suspect there was also some nervousness about that level of sensitive data being handled by a private organisation.


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## cremeegg (15 May 2017)

Interesting. Like all government interventions in the market it will have unintended consequences. It will make bank loans more difficult to get for people that have had issues in the past. Today if you apply for a bank loan, the bank knows almost nothing about any dealings you may have with other banks. With this if you have any issues with other banks it will be apparent to any other bank.

I see that money lenders will also have to provide info. At present they are not members of ICB. I expect that anyone who has had a loan with a moneylender will be cut off from bank borrowings.


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## Sarenco (15 May 2017)

It's hardly a market intervention!

If the effect of the CCR is to restrict borrowers with bad credit ratings from getting into further unsustainable debt that is surely a good thing. Remember what happened in 2008/09?  

I would point out that MABs are very much in favour of the new CCR.


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## Tom Finn (15 May 2017)

What about people who had issues in the past due to loss if job etc.? That are now back at work and have paid/settled debts that may have been in arrears? Does the 5 year rule still apply?


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## Sarenco (15 May 2017)

Here's the legislation that provides for the establishment of the CCR -

http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/eli/2013/act/45/enacted/en/pdf

Yes, the 5-year rule is retained.


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## demoivre (15 May 2017)

Sarenco said:


> If the effect of the CCR is to restrict borrowers with bad credit ratings from getting into further unsustainable debt that is surely a good thing. Remember what happened in 2008/09?



Yes, banks threw out money to borrowers hand over fist with the blessing of the Regulator, Government and Central Bank. They brought this country to it's knees. They did what they could to lash out the shillings. 100% mortgages, 7 times income multiples, gave 5 year fixed rates to ensure borrowers would pass stress tests etc. Of course when it all goes bellies up it's Johnny and Mary who end up being tarnished for 5 years. Patrick Neary's reprimand for overseeing the biggest financial crash in Irish history was to walk of into the sunset with a lump sum of €630k and a €143k per annum pension.


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## Sarenco (15 May 2017)

Wouldn't it be a good idea to do everything possible to avoid a repeat of that disaster?

A lot of people will, frankly, never fully recover from the impact of the credit bubble/collapse.  Never mind 5 years...


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## MrEarl (15 May 2017)

Anyone know if membership and participation of the CCR is compulsory, for all lending institutions ?

I am thinking specifically of the "non bank" lenders which have sprung up in recent years, or other licensed money lenders (i.e. Provident etc.)

Personally, I think it's essential that every possible lending / credit institution is on this new system, in order for it to deliver for us all.


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## Sarenco (15 May 2017)

Yep, it will be obligatory for every "credit information provider" to supply the designated personal and credit information to the Central Bank for inclusion on the CCR.

“Credit information provider” is very broadly defined to include -


(a) a regulated financial services provider,

(b) NAMA,

(c) a local authority, or

(d) *any person not within paragraphs (a) to (c) who provides credit*, other than—


(i) the Bank (ie the Central Bank) or the central bank of any country or territory other than the State,

or

(ii) a pawnbroker, within the meaning of the Pawnbrokers Act 1964.


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## cremeegg (16 May 2017)

Sarenco said:


> Wouldn't it be a good idea to do everything possible to avoid a repeat of that disaster?
> 
> A lot of people will, frankly, never fully recover from the impact of the credit bubble/collapse.  Never mind 5 years...



The more I look at the present situation, the more I wonder if the boom was that much of a disaster. We built nearly one third of our entire housing stock. We are building nothing now, is that really better ?


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## Sarenco (16 May 2017)

Well, the bursting of the credit bubble decimated household balance sheets, ultimately bankrupted the State and gave rise to years of hardship and austerity for large swathes of our population.

I'd certainly call that a disaster.


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## cremeegg (16 May 2017)

Sarenco said:


> Well, the bursting of the credit bubble decimated household balance sheets,




Well my balance sheet certainly took a severe dent, though it has recovered somewhat since. I continued to live in a nice new house. That was the situation for many others. Not many people actually lost their homes.

That seems preferable than the situation faced by young families now. A lack of houses.



Sarenco said:


> ultimately bankrupted the State



Thats simply untrue.



Sarenco said:


> gave rise to years of hardship and austerity for large swathes of our population.



Certainly for those that lost their jobs, but that wasn't large swathes of the population. Most people many have had a knock to their disposable income, but hardly years of hardship and austerity.


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## Nordkapp (16 May 2017)

I think the IMF had to bail us out, therefore we were a bankrupt State.

Creamegg, think you are living in your own little bubble, many people are still trying to move on from the "lost decade"  and rebuild their lives.


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## Sarenco (17 May 2017)

I don't think there is any real point in dragging this thread any further off topic...

However, for what it's worth, I strongly disagree that our policies shouldn't be laser focused on doing everything humanly possible to avoid a repeat of the economic devastation caused by the last credit bubble/bust. 

Although, as an aside, I am delighted to hear that the House of Cremeegg wasn't too badly affected by the unpleasantness!


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## RichInSpirit (9 Mar 2018)

Has this new credit register started working yet ?
Is it replacing the ICB ?
Or will there be 2 systems operating in tandem ?
When can I get a free credit report from the Central Credit Register ?


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## Nordkapp (9 Mar 2018)

The ICB is the credit register for the moment as the CCR is only getting populated by lenders and banks in 2018.


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