# Rip-off Republic Episode 4



## Brendan Burgess (5 Sep 2005)

Hi folks

Please restrict this thread to issues raised in Episode 4 only. 

More general issues can be raised in any of the many other threads on the topic e.g. this one

Could we  *all *make a special effort to make our point in a civilised manner. If someone breaches this, the post will be deleted. If someone does post a disruptive response, please ignore it - don't respond in kind. While I don't think anyone is intentionally trying to damage Askaboutmoney by disrupting the debate, the style of some posts has that effect.

*In particular, can we all try to avoid sarcastic comments as these have a snowball effect.*


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## Brendan Burgess (6 Sep 2005)

What a strange programme! 

Did I miss a programme? Was there any mention anywhere of the genuine rip-offs by financial institutions? 

He seemed to define rip-offs as win-lose situations. Now that's strange.

The programme definitely missed having someone there to challenge him. He seemed to say something along the lines that insurance brokers commission on insurance went up by 57%. But between when and when? But more importantly, why did they go up?

The insurance companies had a maximum commissions agreement cartel whereby they capped the commission at 20%. Eddie and the Consumers Association reckoned that this was price fixing and everyone paid 20% commission. So he complained to the Competition Authority or Director of Consumer Affairs who ordered the abolition of the agreement. The industry argued that removing the cap, would increase the commission paid to brokers and this is exactly what happened. 

I am sure that Eddie would be able to put another side to this story, but the format of the programme did not allow him to be challenged.

Brendan


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## ISBN (6 Sep 2005)

I agree that the programme was very strange last night, nothing new being told, or certainly nothing I didn't already know... It was more a humourous programme last night than anything else, with Eddie walking around the city of culture with a bow stuck to his head and a budgie in a cage.  I don't think it told anything new really - the whole thrust of the programme last night seemed to centre around the case that if you had a weeks bad luck, you could easily end up sticking stuff on your cc to get by for that week.  Overall, i felt it was very disappointing for the final episode.


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## RS2K (6 Sep 2005)

I felt the series petered out, having lost direction and ideas.

Certain politicos will be delighted.


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## CCOVICH (6 Sep 2005)

Brendan said:
			
		

> I am sure that Eddie would be able to put another side to this story, but the format of the programme did not allow him to be challenged.


 
So ideally (well I guess ideally we would have had a more 'balanced' programme to begin with) there is scope for someone to commission a programme to tell the other side of the story (if anyone wants to hear it..............).  

I would have exopected the various govenment ministers to have written 'Letters to the Editor' etc. at this stage, but it's been fairly quiet on that front.  I listened to and interview with An Taoiseach on the Sam Smyth Show on Sunday morning, and have to say he came across quite well, but didn't really go on the offensive .  I guess they are hatching their strategy (likley to be dull and unimaginative if Eddie O'Sullivan is involved) in Cavan as we speak.


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## jem (6 Sep 2005)

I watched most of it last night, and while it was funny in places, I  thought it was poor.Likewise lisened to eddie on ryan tubby and thought he was strangly muted, not a bit like his normal interview self, with teh exception of saying some think along the lines of " If they dont sort it out I will be back. " very treathing , very big headed. I thought it was just strange.


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## Ham Slicer (6 Sep 2005)

I've only seen snippets of each of the two previous shows and again last night I tuned in for about 5 minutes to see Eddie with an arrow sticking out of his head.

The five minutes I saw were very poor and I found it quite embarrassing- so I turned it off.


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## Bluebean (6 Sep 2005)

I like Eddie, but found all episodes in this series had a huge 'cringe' factor.  I much preferred the 'Show me the money' program, but I know that was along a different track altogether.

There was an ad on before the program last night to say Eddie will be on the Late Late show on Friday night, so I imagine there will be plenty of debate/questions fired at him then.  Could be interesting.....


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## Humpback (6 Sep 2005)

Think this was the weakest of the 4 programmes. It neither brought out any definite new direction of attack like the other 3, nor did it bring everything together in a summary.

It struck me afterwards that what he was trying to do was highlight the impact that the other 3 programmes would have on a "muddle class" family. So, if we're ripped off (not saying we are or we aren't) in the manner described in the other 3 programmes, then the impact of that on whatever money we have left is what he was trying to get across last night.

So, overall, a disappointing conclusion.

However, the interesting point for me was his call for people to contact the Competition Authority, and to photocopy evidence. Does anyone reckon that last night will create any whistle-blowers in this country? (Assuming we need any!!!)


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## Humpback (6 Sep 2005)

Bluebean said:
			
		

> There was an ad on before the program last night to say Eddie will be on the Late Late show on Friday night, so I imagine there will be plenty of debate/questions fired at him then. Could be interesting.....


 
Anyone hear Eddie speak about this "alleged" appearance on the Late Late Show this morning on Eamonn Dunphy?

Didn't give the impression that he'd be getting involved in any debate. Said that any debate was "news to him".


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## ubiquitous (6 Sep 2005)

Anyone who expects much of a debate on any topic on the Late Late nowadays is an optimist.


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## joe sod (6 Sep 2005)

I also thought it lacked the punch of the other three episodes. It was more like a rounding up speech. However he did deliver one notable punch with regard to public service workers and benchmarking. The huge protections public service workers have in comparison to private sector workers and the fact that huge benchmarking payments were made without any regard to performance by individual workers. Public service workers in Ireland are the highest paid in europe yet we don't have the comparable services of other european countries. That was the main punch delivered in last nights episode. Another facet I see developing which was not addressed by Eddie is that our best students are being attracted into the public service because of the high pay and security. We will end up again a nation of civil servants with no enterprise culture or technical know how.


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## CCOVICH (6 Sep 2005)

joe sod said:
			
		

> Another facet I see developing which was not addressed by Eddie is that our best students are being attracted into the public service because of the high pay and security. We will end up again a nation of civil servants with no enterprise culture or technical know how.


 
I'm not trying to nit pick or anything, but is there any evidence of this (anecdotal or otherwise)?  I would be interested to know if this is the case.  I don't think that many business graduates end up in the public sector?


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## Kelmar (6 Sep 2005)

I agree last nights programme was disappointing - I actually fell asleep during it!

I think Eddie is trying too hard to be funny (and not succeeding in my view) - using humour to make a point can be effective but a financial commentator who fancys himself as a comedian??? I dont think so....


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## Grumpy (6 Sep 2005)

Eddie, once again, spoke for me.
I couldn`t care less about the presentation.
Its the message that counts.
Targets were Public Sector, Business, government, professions and most of us...the Ripped Off... for putting up with it.
He has made a lot of enemies these past weeks.
No doubt there will be a drip ..drip ...drip of explanations over the next 21 months about how we`re the greatest little country in the world and its perfectly understandable and even good that we have among the highest prices in the world with the worst public services.


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## jasconius (6 Sep 2005)

I think we are being ripped off - by RTE and Hobbs' production company. What he offered and the way he presented it was a complete serial anti-climax, in line with the rest of the garbage that RTE puts out. I can only describe his delivery as buttock clenching!

His 'facts' no doubt will be debated and disputed, someone will call for an inquiry, and in the meantime he walks unclenchingly all the way to the bank.


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## balga (6 Sep 2005)

I'm afraid I also nodded off during this programme. I recall one comment made about planting? a seed of consumer awareness? However, if all this series accomplishes is to be a catalyst for a greater awareness of seeking value for money, in all sectors of the Irish economy, then I think that a start has been made.


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## DrMoriarty (6 Sep 2005)

balga said:
			
		

> a catalyst for a greater awareness


...or for a sequel, next summer?


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## Bank Manager (6 Sep 2005)

Not an EH fan (as some of you will already know).

Last night was the first of the programmes I actually saw.  Thought it was incredibly weak - arrow in head - walking around with a budgie in a cage, walking dogs in Cork - I actually felt embarrassed for him (and that's a first for me).  Thought his messages got lost in all his 'acting', would have preferred to see him raise issues with people in a position to debate with him.

have to say if it was on again next week, I wouldn't bother watching it..........


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## contemporary (6 Sep 2005)

I'd have to agree, 

[eddie hobbs accent] I asked myself is Eddie Hobbs talking to me like a 10 year old, and then I had a look around and saw that he was talkingt to us all like 10 year olds [/eddie hobbs accent]


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## ClubMan (6 Sep 2005)

Typical begrudging _Irish _- build someone up just to knock him down again!


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## jasconius (6 Sep 2005)

Don't worry, we will speak well of him at his funereal


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## RainyDay (7 Sep 2005)

ronan_d_john said:
			
		

> Anyone hear Eddie speak about this "alleged" appearance on the Late Late Show this morning on Eamonn Dunphy?
> 
> Didn't give the impression that he'd be getting involved in any debate. Said that any debate was "news to him".


He was on with Matt Cooper yesterday evening and he stated that he won't be appearing on the Late Late and that the Late Late advertised that they would be debating this issue 'without my authority'.


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## lynchtp (7 Sep 2005)

Well done to Eddie and RTE we needed something like that to be shown to the masses.
Even if it wasnt well made, actors/comedians/presenters were not used, some points were mute as were the stats, it has done a well needed job.


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## CCOVICH (7 Sep 2005)

RainyDay said:
			
		

> He was on with Matt Cooper yesterday evening and he stated that he won't be appearing on the Late Late and that the Late Late advertised that they would be debating this issue 'without my authority'.


 
He did give the impression that he was not impressed with the Late Late Show at all.

It thought that Matt Cooper took the Tony Taylor thing a little too far.  Probably shouldn't have mentioned the 'brown envelople' at all IMHO.


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## Humpback (7 Sep 2005)

contemporary said:
			
		

> I'd have to agree,
> 
> [eddie hobbs accent] I asked myself is Eddie Hobbs talking to me like a 10 year old, and then I had a look around and saw that he was talkingt to us all like 10 year olds [/eddie hobbs accent]


 
Aren't you lucky that you're an intelligent person, who can use a computer, and make yourself aware of so much that is going on in this country, either on this forum and on the internet as a whole......

There are hundreds of thousands of Irish people who don't have what you have, and may not be aware of the things that you are, and who may have been very interested to hear what they heard, either for the first time, or in a way in which was easier to understand than the Irish Times Business section.

Television is a mass media outlet, and as such, you have to appeal to people in such a way as to keep them watching - which we've seen done over the past few weeks.

If you didn't like the tone, or you felt you heard it all before, you've very much entitled to turn it off.


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## contemporary (7 Sep 2005)

ronan_d_john said:
			
		

> Aren't you lucky that you're an intelligent person, who can use a computer, and make yourself aware of so much that is going on in this country, either on this forum and on the internet as a whole......


 
I am



			
				ronan_d_john said:
			
		

> There are hundreds of thousands of Irish people who don't have what you have, and may not be aware of the things that you are, and who may have been very interested to hear what they heard, either for the first time, or in a way in which was easier to understand than the Irish Times Business section


 
ignorance is no defence, just ask any judge




			
				ronan_d_john said:
			
		

> If you didn't like the tone, or you felt you heard it all before, you've very much entitled to turn it off.


 
I did


I liked Hobbs "show me the money" programme and felt that RRR was a great opportunity to expand what he had being saying in SMTM but between trying to make the show lighthearted yet serious it was a failure IMO. If you talk to people like adults they will act like adults if you talk to them like simpletons....


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## ubiquitous (7 Sep 2005)

I don't think its correct to assume that there are "hundreds of thousands" of people out there who are not intelligent or who cannot inform themselves on current affairs and events simply because they can't use a computer. (On the other hand, given the amount of rubbish on the internet, anyone (intelligent or otherwise) who relies on it to inform themselves on any subject is not exactly guaranteed wisdom...)

Its also a bit ludicrous to think that large numbers of people were unaware of,(or worse, did not understand) the "Rip off Ireland" debate until they saw Eddie's show, given that the Irish Indo and other mass-market media have been pushing this story (or non-story, perhaps) for several years now.


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## ClubMan (7 Sep 2005)

RainyDay said:
			
		

> He was on with Matt Cooper yesterday evening and he stated that he won't be appearing on the Late Late and that the Late Late advertised that they would be debating this issue 'without my authority'.


Has he patented the idea or something?


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## joe sod (7 Sep 2005)

Thought it a bit dissapointing that he won't be appearing on the late late show. Im sure his detractors will make alot of this "afraid to defend himself". However he maybe right, I think he may have been hoodwinked by the Late Late trying to get some of his record ratings. I don't think a shouting match on the late late would be much good. All it would do is work in the politicians and vested interests favour by clouding the issue again. They have been very successful at this over the last few years. Eddie Hobbs has lifted the bonnet on the issue and let everyone have a look.


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## Dearg Doom (7 Sep 2005)

I don't agree with the thinking that format of the program not allowing his comments to be challenged is an issue. When we are shown advertising telling us what great value such-and-such a product is, or quotes from ministers telling us about our low tax economy and what a good job they are doing, etc. we don't see those (biased) opinions being challenged immediatly to give balance. So it makes sense that someone should be able to give contrary opinions unchallanged. Probably neither paints a completely accurate portrait of reality, but hopefully the bias of one will challange the bias in the other and get people to examine what we are being told, look at things from all sides instead of taking it at face value.


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## ClubMan (7 Sep 2005)

joe sod said:
			
		

> I think he may have been hoodwinked by the Late Late trying to get some of his record ratings.


How would an invitation to appear (if such an offer was extended) constitute hoodwinking?



> I don't think a shouting match on the late late would be much good.


At least a shouting match would hold out more promise of a more balanced treatment of the issues than _Eddie's _unchallenged unilateral shouting performance on _RoR_?


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## CCOVICH (7 Sep 2005)

ClubMan said:
			
		

> Has he patented the idea or something?


 
I think it was more the fact that they were advertising he would be appearing without having confirmed this with him first.


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## Humpback (7 Sep 2005)

ubiquitous said:
			
		

> Its also a bit ludicrous to think that large numbers of people were unaware of,(or worse, did not understand) the "Rip off Ireland" debate until they saw Eddie's show, given that the Irish Indo and other mass-market media have been pushing this story (or non-story, perhaps) for several years now.


 
I never said people were unaware (or ignorant as implied elsewhere above), my point was that people were tuning in to have things further explained to them.

In fairness, you'd need some sort of higher education degree to decipher some of the arguements regarding ROI on this bulletin board.

What are the circulation figures for The Sun, The Mirror etc., and how many people don't read the Irish Indo for one, and newspapers at all for another.

From mass media, the only newspapers to give much time at all to the alleged Rip Off Ireland have been the Irish Indo, the Irish Examiner, the Evening Herald and The Sunday Indo.


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## ClubMan (7 Sep 2005)

ronan_d_john said:
			
		

> In fairness, you'd need some sort of higher education degree to decipher some of the arguements regarding ROI on this bulletin board.


Which ones do you think that this applies to and are they in support of or against the idea?


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## ubiquitous (7 Sep 2005)

> In fairness, you'd need some sort of higher education degree to decipher some of the arguements regarding ROI on this bulletin board.



Hardly true, but a little basic research would go a long way towards avoiding erroneous statements such as 



> From mass media, the only newspapers to give much time at all to the alleged Rip Off Ireland have been the Irish Indo, the Irish Examiner, the Evening Herald and The Sunday Indo.



From [broken link removed]



> Details of coverage that RipOff.ie has received in the media.
> 
> Headline Source Pub. Date
> 'VISITORS FACE CAR-AZY VEHICLE HIRE PRICES' The Star 21/06/2005
> ...


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## Humpback (7 Sep 2005)

ubiquitous said:
			
		

> Hardly true, but a little basic research would go a long way towards avoiding erroneous statements such as
> 
> 
> 
> From [broken link removed]


 
I'm talking about a discussion of ripoff Ireland, not simply easy and lazy media coverage of the pronouncements of the Fine Gael party in their press releases that just happen to include the terms "ripoff.ie".

For example, many of the contributors here, myself included, based on their statements and opinions, would find that most of the above newspaper articles cover aspects of business and consumer activity in Ireland that does not fall within the remit of "ripoffs".


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## Humpback (7 Sep 2005)

ClubMan said:
			
		

> Which ones do you think that this applies to and are they in support of or against the idea?


 
Both sides of the arguement. I was specifically thinking of the discussion around the definitions of a ripoff, and the discussions surrounding tax take/payments and whether or not their a ripoff.

As an example, Clubman, you mention frequently that you're paying 17% tax on you and your partners income (if I remember correctly - open to correction).

I'm relatively intelligent (my ma told me, and I can't get her to log on to back that up with facts), but I'm sure I'm like many people, I get my paypacket at the end of the week, and stick it in the drawer, as long as the money is in my bank account.

It's purely from here that I've sorted a PRSA and the tax-relief associated, and the tax-relief on other things.

This kind of information and discussion isn't generally available to Joe Public, in a manner in which they understand, and in a fashion that provides them with simple to follow instructions on what to do, and hence the tone and direction of Eddies show.

The fact that he didn't take the opportunity to provide a Tips or Hints set of instructions on certain things was definitely an oppotunity missed. The programme doesn't even have a website.

Speaking of opportunities missed, where are the Consumers Association of Ireland, the ODCA or the NCA, waiting in the wings to follow up on the interest generated to re-inforce the message in order to keep consumer more aware, rather than an Eddie-induced blip in the normal course of events?


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## ClubMan (7 Sep 2005)

OK - thanks for that explanation.


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