# Non Payment of Child Maintenance



## bmj

I have a maintenance order of 75 euro, last time i got it was in december and now i only receive to 20 euro because he has took it upon himself to reduce it to this as he has become unemployed. This payment of 20 euro is irregular as he only lodges it when he wants to himself, not as per the court order. What legal procedure can i take to remedy this situation


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## mathepac

Go back to the Clerk of the Court where the order was made and inform him / her that the order is not being complied with.


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## bmj

will i have to bring him back to court and will he have to repay all the arrears?


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## samanthajane

Yes you will have to apply for a maintenace review. 

Although when the judge is aware that he is now unemployed the maintenance he will have to give you will be reduced from the orginal 75 euro a week. How much you will get will depend on what other out-goings your ex has.

What your ex really should of done is apply for the review once he became unemployed. I've been down the court route myself many times for maintenance but never reviewed to make the payments less because of umemployment. 

I 'think' that he will have to pay arrears of what the judge awards you. So if the judge does award you say 20 euro a week he will have to make up the weeks he's missed since he became unemployed. There is also a chance that the judge will make him payback the arrears of the orginal agreement of 75 euro up untill the day you go to court.


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## mathepac

Full details - http://www.citizensinformation.ie/c...and-divorce/maintenance_orders_and_agreements


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## Bronte

Even if the judge orders he repay the arrears I don't see how it can be enforced against someone who is unemployed, unless he has assets or savings.  I don't believe a judge is going to order someone on circa 250 a week to pay 75 in maintenance.  Others on here might have a better idea of the amount ordered by court in such situations.


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## bmj

he's claiming unemployment but he is actually working too. Do you think the judge would insist on me having proof of him working?


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## samanthajane

yes you would need to have proof. Other wise you could walk into that court and say anything. If you cant provide proof your mainteneance will be reduced to what the judge thinks that he should pay having an income of only unemployment.


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## bmj

the only kind of proof id be able to get is photos. i feel really silly asking these questions but i just need to go in with my eyes open this time. thanks for the advice


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## Bronte

bmj said:


> I feel really silly asking these questions but I just need to go in with my eyes open this time.


 
A great way to be informed is to go down to the courts and listen in on other cases, you'll learn a lot this way.  It's a terrible thing for a man who is earning not to support his offspring.


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## GreenQueen

Family law cases are heard in camera Bronte - I'm not sure that the OP would be able to do as you advise.


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## Sully1

You can only apply for 6 months of arrears of maintenance - something a friend of mine learnt to her cost recently.
So get into the the court clerk and apply for a summons for payment of arrears.

If your ex wants to reduce the amount of maintenance, he either has to reapply to the court for variance or arrange it with you


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## donee

amazing the lack of contribution from men on this topic


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## Sue Ellen

donee said:


> amazing the lack of contribution from men on this topic



How do you know the gender of the contributors to this thread?


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## Green

Bronte said:


> A great way to be informed is to go down to the courts and listen in on other cases, you'll learn a lot this way. It's a terrible thing for a man who is earning not to support his offspring.


 


GreenQueen said:


> Family law cases are heard in camera Bronte - I'm not sure that the OP would be able to do as you advise.


 
While the cases are heard in camera, the Courts Service has allowed Dr. Carol Coulter to observe cases and she has produced reports on proceedings which are on their website, see link below...

[broken link removed]


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## annet

bmj said:


> he's claiming unemployment but he is actually working too. Do you think the judge would insist on me having proof of him working?


 
Are you certain about this - as the social welfare fraud section may also be interested in this fact.


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## donee

Sue Ellen said:


> How do you know the gender of the contributors to this thread?


 only johnny cash sang about a man called sue, no offence meant or intended, im only assuming from peoples names as they appear, as to their gender.You'll also note that as a man myself that i did not comment in any meaningful way to the debate , its merely an observation on my part, call it voyuerism into a world i thankfully no nothing about. but as a man i find it hard to comprehend the mercenary aspect of the debate, afterall the man has lost his job and as a single person on the dole is only entitled to approx €200 a week yet like Shylock you demand your pound of flesh.or 40% of his now dole payment. remembering of course that it takes two to tango and there are two sides to every story and this one seems to be one for the girls


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## Thirsty

> the man has lost his job


That doesn't appear to be the case from what the OP is saying.



> single person on the dole is only entitled to approx €200 a week


If paying court ordered maintenance, he can claim an additional allowance for his child.



> this one seems to be one for the girls


It's the child who is entitled to be maintained by his/her parents; unfortunately in this country it is left to the parents to enforce this legal obligation.


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## donee

Kildrought said:


> That doesn't appear to be the case from what the OP is saying.
> she first says hes become unemployed, i would'nt say thats code for losing his job
> If paying court ordered maintenance, he can claim an additional allowance for his child.
> 
> tell her that! how many mothers do you know who walk out on their children but cant seem to hand over the CA book.
> It's the child who is entitled to be maintained by his/her parents; unfortunately in this country it is left to the parents to enforce this legal obligation.


 on this one i agree with you! but i think the shame should be on all of us though as a society for not looking after those who cannot look after themselves


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## John Rambo

donee said:


> afterall the man has lost his job and as a single person on the dole is only entitled to approx €200 a week yet like Shylock you demand your pound of flesh.or 40% of his now dole payment. remembering of course that it takes two to tango and there are two sides to every story and this one seems to be one for the girls


 
The gender of participants within the thread should be irrelevant (and is unknown anyway). And personally I do think a man receiving social welfare amounting to €200 per week should pay 40% of it to support his children. They're primarily his responsibility, simple as that. Nobody is looking for a "pound of flesh"...there's just an expectation that a guy wouldn't try and duck and dive to avoid supporting his offspring.


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## Mel

For some reason, non-custodial parents often feel that being unemployed is valid reason to cease contributing towards their child's welfare. 

Interestingly, if the custodial parent loses their job, the costs associated with rearing a healthy child do not disappear. Remember that the allowance per child on state payments is approximately €15, if I recall correctly.


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## galway.

hi , from reading through the posts, a few have said go into the court and listen and a few have said it is in camera, this is true the only persons allowed in are the briefs and the concerned parties, have you sat down and spoke to your x???
one post says to inform social fraud dept but by doing this the child could suffer more so . it is a sensitive topic one to be sure to speak to ur brief before acting. 
best of luck with this,


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## amber

i was in the same suitation so i rang the court clerk she told me to write to them stating what i wanted to do and ask them to recover the missed payments for me 
i sent down a copy of the maintenance order with the letter and also asking if the payments could be made through the court instead of directly to me
i went to court last week payments are now being made by him to the court and i recieve a check in the post. if he missed a payment they go after him for it
not sure what happened about the missed payments yet


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## missdaisy

It is true that you can recover the arrears of maintenance, but only a maximum of six months maintenance. Even if the father of your children is unemployed he will be ordered to pay some level of maintenance, unemployment does not mean that your obligation to pay maintenance ceases. If possible you should have the maintenance paid through the District Court office as they then can keep track of whether there are arrears.


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## 087nancy

. afterall the man has lost his job and as a single person on the dole is only entitled to approx €200 a week yet like Shylock you demand your pound of flesh.or 40% of his now dole payment. .


My ex gave up working because he got a 3 year drink driving ban. Unfortunately, all the judge wants to know is that he is not working and therefore pays a pittance in maintenance.


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## sophia

I think you need to go back to court and have payments set up through social welfare, the 20e should go directly into your account and never reaches him or if hes working its stopped out of his wages, this way you are guaranteed the 20 every wk. you mention he is working too if i was you i would hang him to social welfare, at teh end of the day you are without proper maintenance for your child when you know he is earning it, he thnks he is being smart but i would go one step further and do your best to prove he is working and get your 75euro back you are entitled to, kids are so expensive these days!!!!!


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## dixie

iv been geetting maintenance of €60 for my 3 children, im unemployed and i had to nearly drag that €60 out of him, he is living in a house hant down to him, he never ever took the children overnight, he eats out every day, he has his own small business and im taking him to court as i cant survive on what he is giving me, can anyone give me advise on what to expect in court? or does anyone think im wrong for doing this? also we do not talk, he will not talk to me cause i finished our relationship and he is very bitter over that, he was cheating on me, and thats finally why i ended with him..


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## 087nancy

Hi,
I empathise with your situation. My ex actually stopped working in order to pay mininmum maintenance which is still hard to get from him, even though I've been to court 3 times.
My advice is: don't expect justice to be done-it won't be. Even though he is quite obviously wrong, family law in Ireland is appallingly backward and very poorly enforced. The judge will only want to know the facts, so be well armed. I guarantee that your ex will use the recession as a way out of paying especiallly as he has his own business. The judge doesn't want to know that he cheated, that he eats out everyday (unless you have recepits) or anything else unless you have proof. Even if you get awarded the maintenance your children deserve,there is still the chance that he won't pay. If his arrears go past 26 weeks, they are wiped clean!!! He can't be prosecuted for them! My ex has twice gone into arrears and nothing has been done even though all moniey he pays goes through the court clerk.
I'm sorry if I sound negative but I have been in your place and it is a terribly frustrating situation to be in. It's not of your doing, yet you and your children have to suffer. When in court you will have to keep your mouth shut and let your solicitor do the talking-it;s very hard!
good luck


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## dixie

thank you so much nancy, im extremely nervous and i know the law in ireland is backwards but im closse to a nervous breakdown due to all this carry on thats why i decided to take him to court, im doing it for my kids, i just hope and pray all goes well, if it doesnt well i wont give up up , il appeal it, its so so unfair, men get away with murder.... (not all men are bad)


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## 087nancy

While there are many,many good,responsible dads out there who pay maintenance and take care of their children regardless of their relationship with the Children's mother,I have been amazed and appalled at the extent to which some will go to avoid it.
You have a long road ahead of you but at least you will know that you did your best. 
Keep a written record of every single time he doesn't pay, doesn't collect the children,is late,cancels-everything. I had a notebook full of these things and it proved invaluable. 
Also,find out if you are entitled to legal aid. Citizen's advice could tell you.


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## dixie

thanks nancy, court is in the morning, i have the last two months wrote down in a journal, im am so scared its unreal, and i have nothing to hide, its him that is lying, i just want to walk out of court knowing i done my best for my children, but going on what a lot of people are saying its going to be hard to prove he is lying, its a mans world, and my ex does not deserve to have any part in thire lives.. he cannot proived for them emotionally or finically, its so annoying, he is the most selfish man i ever met. and at least after tomorrow all money given as maintenance will be on record... i will let you know tomorrow how i got on.... thanks so much for ur advice...


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## dixie

hi nancy just want to let u know court went very well for me, im delighted with the outcome, justice was done for me today, after 12 years of torture and mental abuse i finally won... i feel so relieved, i hope u eventually get justice too... thanks for ur advice


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## rmrmrmrm2007

A man on 200 per week could hardly be accused of ducking and diving to avoid paying maintenance. He is ducking and diving to survive. If he paid when he had it I think it only reasonable to cut him some slack while he looks for work. There is enough in a split and a recession. The sterotypes and badgering wont help the situation or the fathers opinion of himself and relationship with the children.


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## 087nancy

That's great,it's a nerve-wracking experience. Hope you got him to pay through the court clerk,save you dealing with him. They chase him for late or non-payments.


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## dixie

hi nancy, yes the money is been paid through court clerk, my solicitor advised me that that way is best...


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## 087nancy

> A man on 200 per week could hardly be accused of ducking and diving to avoid paying maintenance. He is ducking and diving to survive. If he paid when he had it I think it only reasonable to cut him some slack while he looks for work. There is enough in a split and a recession. The sterotypes and badgering wont help the situation or the fathers opinion of himself and relationship with the children.


 
 So, a man who gets put off the road for 3 yearsfor drink driving,and thus has no transport to work,is a great father? The poor man,how dare the judge put him off the road when he is obviously a responsible,law abiding citizen. This same man refuses to getg the bus to see his children as he would "look stupid", so after working all day, and doing a 2hr commute, I have to drive for another hour. And as for looking for work- is work found in the gym? In the pub?Sitting on the wall of his girlfriend's council house?  No,it's found in the nixers he does while still claiming the dole. Not that his children see this extra money. If ducking and diving was an olympic sport, there'd be a queue a mile long to take part.


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## dixie

well said nancy, nobody knows what its like to be in our situation unless their in it, you keep fighting cause ur kids deserve more from that man than their getting and u know he can provide better than what he is and thats all that matters... thinking of u, keep in touch


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## lco

hi, im separated from my ex 4 years, he hasn't paid any maintenance since last April.  we have 2 kids.  he also works for himself and says he is not working at present even though i have seen him working.  he is supposed to pay €100 per week but presently owes over €2000.  I have gone to court clerk but because of problems with the legislation they said there is nothing they can do until legislation is changed.  He knows this too.  He said he'd pay if i agreed to reduce it but unless i do he won't pay anything.  i don't think €100 is unreasonable for 2 kids.  I have a mortgage, he doesn't, does anyone know if there is anything I can do


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## 087nancy

First thing is: carry a camera with you at all times and get pictures of him working. Sounds very CSI but it's done all the time. My solictor advised me to get a private investigator but I simply couln't afford it.
Next, I presume your ex has been given a court oder to pay the 100 a week or else you wouldn't be in contact ith court clerk. Unbelievably, arrears are wiped clean if not applied for within 26 weeks so your ex will only be liable for arrears from approx Oct onwards. Get the clerk to issue a summons to get him into court for that. 
Thirdly, this rubbish about not paying anything until you agree to reduce it is similar to what I went through. So, tell him to get his solicitor to issue a letter to you and the court applying for a variation order. You will get a summons where you will get to say why you contest it-go through all this with your solicitor first. if he wants to reduce payments (not that he's paying anything!), he has to do it from his end.
And lastly, no,100 is not unreasonable although rmrmrmrm2007 up there might disagree as your ex is probably one of these men, like mine, who is searching for work in every nook and cranny in Ireland. Except anywhere there actually is work.
Good luck


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## lco

tks for your advice but courts cant enforce maintenance orders at the moment until problems with legislation are sorted. they said they cant issue a summons to get him back into court until it is sorted. has anyone else come across this.


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## caz09

Does anyone know when this legislation about arrears going to be sorted out, i was in court on 2nd nov and there was suppose to be a case in the high court dealing with this the following day according to the judge. My childs father thought he could stop paying because of the recession, didnt stop his nightly visits to the local pub though! Anyway he stopped paying for a while which accumulated over 1200 in arrears then tried to get the weekly payment reduced but to his dismay has not succeeded thank god, what hope have i got of getting the arrears, if the court cant make a judgement on this can i get a collection agency to collect it?


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## 087nancy

I'm confused about this legislation about arrears. My court clerk hasn't mentioned anything to me and only a few weeks ago he issued a summons to my ex for arrears. Court date was last Monday. I took a day off work, my fiance took a day off to support me. Four hours of sitting in a cold, uncomfortable court waiting room later and I was told the case would be adjourned until a month's time as my ex had a doctor's appointment that day and couldn't come. Seven days in the week,court open from 10:30 until 5p.m. and he just had to have an appointment on that day, at that time. No one thought to tell me. The Family Law system in this country is abysmal. Next court date- I might just have an appointment myself.


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## jellyb

Hi Nancy I was in court last July and the case was struck out because of this new legislation I have rang the court offices every few weeks since and still have not been back to court. I haven't received maintenance in over a year at this stage and the court will only chase him for 26 weeks. The last time i rang the court office they advised me to start lobbying my local TD's to have this legislation sorted apparently it is sitting in the senad(sp!) waiting to be passed. I have already been to one TD and she hasn't been very helpful so I am now going to email every TD i can and see how I get on after that I think i am going to contact the media because I am absolutly sick of this situaton after being in it for over 8 year now.


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## 087nancy

It's beyond crazy and all I've come to expect from our laughably backwards family law "system". I get 50 euro a week for 2 children and today their dad is coming to show them his new car! Their dad who DOES NOT WORK!!!!!!!! The mind boggles.


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## Mel

from today's examiner

http://www.examiner.ie/ireland/ahern-targets-maintenance-loophole-110483.html


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## lco

hi was talking to court clerk recently and she told me that although legislation is yet to be sorted it looks like that you will be able to look for up to 2 years arrears, hopefully some of us will eventually get what we are owed


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## jellyb

Mel that was a helpful piece in the examiner as i have been finding it hard to find out exactly what the situation was. I'm off to ring the district court again and I am going to email the dept of justice and hopefully there will be some news on this soon.


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## celestialgrr

bmj I'm in a similar situation, my ex missed two weeks of payments in December.  His solicitor hasn't replied to a letter and a phone message from my solicitor asking for the matter to be sorted.  I don't know how much time would seem reasonable to at least get an explanation about it what with the christmas break and all.  My solicitor says we have to issue a warrant for his arrest!  I don't know what 'the game' is here, I'm feeling quite frazzled.  Did you get advice?


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## CashAdv

Well, I know a couple that split recently with 1 child and the mother is refusing maintenance from the father! "Doesn't need any of his money" is what she has said. He is a personal friend of mine and has said that he would like to provide his fair share, etc. He told me last week that he is considering applying for a maintenance order himself so that he can make a regular payment through the court. Is that even possible? He has asked his ex to apply and she refused. Crazy LOL


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## truthseeker

CashAdv said:


> Well, I know a couple that split recently with 1 child and the mother is refusing maintenance from the father! "Doesn't need any of his money" is what she has said. He is a personal friend of mine and has said that he would like to provide his fair share, etc. He told me last week that he is considering applying for a maintenance order himself so that he can make a regular payment through the court. Is that even possible? He has asked his ex to apply and she refused. Crazy LOL


 

All he has to do is open an account, put the maintenance money in there each week/month and if the mother doesnt want it, leave it there until the child is 18 and give it directly to the child.

He should furnish the account details to the mother, then if she ever does take him to court he has proof he tried to pay the maintenance and when refused is saving the amount regardless.

A very silly mother, the money is not for her, its for her child, so she is depriving the child of its legal right to financial support from its father.


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