# Recommendations for €40-€50,000   3 litre+ Car



## landlord (19 Sep 2018)

I am considering buying the 2018 Audi A7  3 litre TDI bi turbo Quattro.
I am not looking to purchase this till early 2021.  I might be crazy looking at this now,  however I need a goal to motivate me to save for it or something similar.  I am hoping it would have depreciated approx 50% by then as well.  I don’t believe in taking out credit to purchase cars so I would rather save in advance. 
Currently driving a 2009 Audi A5 coupe 3L TDI Quatro.  This is my first ever Audi and to be honest I love it.

I would consider other similar 4 seater powerful sports cars too, however as
I would probably import it from the UK I would be conscious of CO2 emissions in regard to 1. VRT and 2. Irish road tax.

Any other suggestions? Thanks


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## Leo (19 Sep 2018)

Honest John isn't a fan of the diesel / triptronic. 

The current A7 model was just released last month, so there's a good chance a new model might be on the way by 2021, which may help lower the resale value of 2018 models. With diesel sales down 40% in the UK, and bans coming into effect in various cities around Europe, you might get one for a deeper than 50% discount.


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## pauric (19 Sep 2018)

A BMW 530 or 640 would also be pretty nice options.


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## Blackrock1 (19 Sep 2018)

Leo said:


> Honest John isn't a fan of the diesel / triptronic.
> 
> The current A7 model was just released last month, so there's a good chance a new model might be on the way by 2021, which may help lower the resale value of 2018 models. With diesel sales down 40% in the UK, and bans coming into effect in various cities around Europe, you might get one for a deeper than 50% discount.



wont be a new model just a facelift, audi got 7-8 years out of the last one.

id be looking at the bmw 640 and Porsche Panamera in that company.


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## landlord (19 Sep 2018)

Blackrock1 said:


> wont be a new model just a facelift, audi got 7-8 years out of the last one.
> 
> id be looking at the bmw 640 and Porsche Panamera in that company.



Does the Porsche Panamera come in a diesel ?  If it’s a petrol only the CO2 emissions I would imagine would be extremely high so the VRT for importing it and the Irish road tax would be extortionate. 

Will take a look at the BMWs


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## robert 200 (19 Sep 2018)

Yes it does


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## PaddyBloggit (19 Sep 2018)

Don't forget to factor in that the UK will be outside the EU in 2021 and import tariffs may be through the roof.


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## lukas888 (19 Sep 2018)

Porsche have stopped all diesel Panameras,Macans,and Cayennes since2017.They are going all in on hybrid and fully electric.


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## Zenith63 (19 Sep 2018)

€50k would get you a nice Tesla Model S. No worry about emissions, more power than the A7, similar size, auto-pilot and all that good stuff.


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## Purple (20 Sep 2018)

Model S starts at €81k in Ireland.


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## Pugmister (20 Sep 2018)

2019 Mercedes CLS is a beauitiful looking car but would probably need to get AMG spec for performance you want.


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## galway_blow_in (20 Sep 2018)

landlord said:


> I am considering buying the 2018 Audi A7  3 litre TDI bi turbo Quattro.
> I am not looking to purchase this till early 2021.  I might be crazy looking at this now,  however I need a goal to motivate me to save for it or something similar.  I am hoping it would have depreciated approx 50% by then as well.  I don’t believe in taking out credit to purchase cars so I would rather save in advance.
> Currently driving a 2009 Audi A5 coupe 3L TDI Quatro.  This is my first ever Audi and to be honest I love it.
> 
> ...



Skoda kodiaq, awesome suv and the days of skoda being a cheap brand are long gone.
Just realised you plan to spend 40 - 50k on a three year old car in a few years.

Kodiaq are circa 45k new.


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## galway_blow_in (20 Sep 2018)

Zenith63 said:


> €50k would get you a nice Tesla Model S. No worry about emissions, more power than the A7, similar size, auto-pilot and all that good stuff.



Thought tesla were up on 90k new ?


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## Zenith63 (20 Sep 2018)

Purple said:


> Model S starts at €81k in Ireland.


The 2018 Audi A7 3 litre TDI bi-turbo Quattro landlord mentioned also starts at €80k.  They're looking to buy a 3 year old car, in 3 years time, that at that point will cost €40-50k I believe.  Should be some 2017/2018 Model S's in around that price by then, given the Model 3 will have arrived and presumably driven down 2nd hand values the way it has in the US...

@landlord if you haven't already, you should drop into the Tesla showroom in Sandyford and take a test drive of the Model S.  I don't think the finish is quite as plush as the A7 or higher end Merc's, but the speed, handling, tech and cost of ownership will impress...


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## galway_blow_in (20 Sep 2018)

Zenith63 said:


> The 2018 Audi A7 3 litre TDI bi-turbo Quattro landlord mentioned also starts at €80k.  They're looking to buy a 3 year old car, in 3 years time, that at that point will cost €40-50k I believe.  Should be some 2017/2018 Model S's in around that price by then, given the Model 3 will have arrived and presumably driven down 2nd hand values the way it has in the US...
> 
> @landlord if you haven't already, you should drop into the Tesla showroom in Sandyford and take a test drive of the Model S.  I don't think the finish is quite as plush as the A7 or higher end Merc's, but the speed, handling, tech and cost of ownership will impress...



Doubt anyone will be buying a tesla second hand as you could count on one hand the number sold new right now in this country  

Kind of car you only buy new. ( for now anyway


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## Zenith63 (20 Sep 2018)

galway_blow_in said:


> Doubt anyone will be buying a tesla second hand as you could count on one hand the number sold new right now in this country
> Kind of car you only buy new. ( for now anyway


175 Teslas registered in Ireland in 2018 so far.

Also very cheap to import from the UK, given electrics fall into the lowest VRT band (14%) and qualify for a further €5k off that VRT figure.

Also 0% BIK on electrics.

If somebody is in the market for a €50k 3-4 year old high-performance low-running-cost luxury car they're an option to consider.


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## galway_blow_in (20 Sep 2018)

Zenith63 said:


> 175 Teslas registered in Ireland in 2018 so far.
> 
> Also very cheap to import from the UK, given electrics fall into the lowest VRT band (14%) and qualify for a further €5k off that VRT figure.
> 
> ...



I stand corrected, I had no idea so many teslas were sold, I've yet to see one in the flesh but I would definitely include the tesla amongst the options OP.


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## landlord (20 Sep 2018)

Thanks I hadn’t thought of tesla.  They don’t look particularly sporty from the outside but I would still love to test drive one. 
How about the Porsche Panamera e hybrid.  Incredibly low omissions so importing and road tax should be affordable.  Performance figures here.....impressive!!!

https://www.porsche.com/international/models/panamera/panamera-e-hybrid-models/panamera-4-e-hybrid/


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## lukas888 (20 Sep 2018)

The new Porsche Panamera hybrid is a beautiful car,style wise it's way ahead of 
a Tesla.A friend has a new one but it cost 
almost 140k and I think it will hold its value 
reasonably well.After 3 years residual value 
of 50 to 55% will leave it out of your price 
range.


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## Gordon Gekko (20 Sep 2018)

Sorry, but in a thread where someone is mulling over whether to buy an Audi A7, a Porsche Panamera, an AMG Merc, or a Tesla, it’s comedy gold for someone to suggest a Skoda SUV.


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## galway_blow_in (20 Sep 2018)

landlord said:


> Thanks I hadn’t thought of tesla.  They don’t look particularly sporty from the outside but I would still love to test drive one.
> How about the Porsche Panamera e hybrid.  Incredibly low omissions so importing and road tax should be affordable.  Performance figures here.....impressive!!!
> 
> https://www.porsche.com/international/models/panamera/panamera-e-hybrid-models/panamera-4-e-hybrid/



Think the tesla is other worldly looking and ultra modern and futuristic.

Love its image.


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## galway_blow_in (20 Sep 2018)

Gordon Gekko said:


> Sorry, but in a thread where someone is mulling over whether to buy an Audi A7, a Porsche Panamera, an AMG Merc, or a Tesla, it’s comedy gold for someone to suggest a Skoda SUV.



Yeah I corrected that suggestion at the bottom of the post when I realised the OP was planning on spending 50 k on a three year old car ( unconventional plan) as opposed to a new one.

If it was 50 k on a new one, I don't see much wrong with a kodiaq , tremendous reviews and they look good too.


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## Páid (21 Sep 2018)

How about this EV -


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## Steven Barrett (21 Sep 2018)

galway_blow_in said:


> I stand corrected, I had no idea so many teslas were sold, I've yet to see one in the flesh but I would definitely include the tesla amongst the options OP.



I work in Sandyford and see plenty of them. The acceleration out of them is unreal!!

The tesla "showroom" is nothing more than a small warehouse with a couple of tesla flags out the front. It always looks closed. Given it's opposite the massive new Audi centre, you'd easily miss it.


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## Purple (21 Sep 2018)

lukas888 said:


> The new Porsche Panamera hybrid is a beautiful car,style wise it's way ahead of
> a Tesla.A friend has a new one but it cost
> almost 140k and I think it will hold its value
> reasonably well.After 3 years residual value
> ...


I don't think I could ever buy a car like that new, no matter how much money I had. I just couldn't live with €450 a week of depreciation. I'd just keep thinking that I had to earn €900 to end up with that €450.


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## Purple (21 Sep 2018)

galway_blow_in said:


> Yeah I corrected that suggestion at the bottom of the post when I realised the OP was planning on spending 50 k on a three year old car ( unconventional plan) as opposed to a new one.
> 
> If it was 50 k on a new one, I don't see much wrong with a kodiaq , tremendous reviews and they look good too.


I bought a 3 year old car before for €42,000 which cost over €100,000 new.


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## galway_blow_in (21 Sep 2018)

Purple said:


> I bought a 3 year old car before for €42,000 which cost over €100,000 new.



Fantastic.

May I ask what you bought?


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## Purple (21 Sep 2018)

It was a Jaguar FX, top of the range, fully spec'd.
It was pre the new VRT system so that did increase the price when it was new.

It's long gone; now I pay a mortgage and rent and drive an 8 year old Mondeo but am happier 
I find expensive cars own you as much as you own them; too stressful to own unless paying for repairs etc doesn't cause you a second thought.


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## galway_blow_in (21 Sep 2018)

Purple said:


> It was a Jaguar FX, top of the range, fully spec'd.
> It was pre the new VRT system so that did increase the price when it was new.
> 
> It's long gone; now I pay a mortgage and rent and drive an 8 year old Mondeo but am happier
> I find expensive cars own you as much as you own them; too stressful to own unless paying for repairs etc doesn't cause you a second thought.



I've new windows to buy for the house (11 k) and a court action to fund in the next few years so I'm keeping the spend on cars to a minimum.

Bought a 2012 petrol 1.4 turbo for 5 k a month ago


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## landlord (21 Sep 2018)

galway_blow_in said:


> I've new windows to buy for the house (11 k) and a court action to fund in the next few years so I'm keeping the spend on cars to a minimum.



With over 1.5 mil mortgage debt perhaps I should also be keeping my spend on cars to a minimum......but you only live once. 

I have watched a few you tube videos on the Porsche Panamera e hybrid and I am intrigued!!!
I think a powerful hybrid might be the best option regarding saving a fortune on VRT and Irish road tax. 
The emissions are between 50 and 70 g/km depending on model so how would that stand regarding % VRT and Irish road tax?


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## lukas888 (21 Sep 2018)

VRT on the Panamera hybrid is 14%,car tax is
170 euros.But if you are thinking about buying one in 3 years time you will probably need to up your budget to minimum 60k.And if you are hoping to import one from the UK
you will have to hope that sterling remains at the level it is now.If sterling appreciates to its ten year average it will leave all imports much more expensive.


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## galway_blow_in (10 Nov 2018)

landlord said:


> I am considering buying the 2018 Audi A7  3 litre TDI bi turbo Quattro.
> I am not looking to purchase this till early 2021.  I might be crazy looking at this now,  however I need a goal to motivate me to save for it or something similar.  I am hoping it would have depreciated approx 50% by then as well.  I don’t believe in taking out credit to purchase cars so I would rather save in advance.
> Currently driving a 2009 Audi A5 coupe 3L TDI Quatro.  This is my first ever Audi and to be honest I love it.
> 
> ...



Hi landlord. 

How about the alfa romeo stelvio quadrifoglio ?

500bhp  ferrari engine,, 110 k new


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## landlord (10 Nov 2018)

galway_blow_in said:


> Hi landlord.
> 
> How about the alfa romeo stelvio quadrifoglio ?
> 
> 500bhp  ferrari engine,, 110 k new



Without even looking at this, I am assuming this is in the highest co2 bracket.   
I just couldn’t justify spending over 2 grand road tax a year. 
I am leaning towards the Panamera e hybrid, although I have over 2 years to decide.  
I test drove an 2014 Audi S5 automatic last week, also 750 road tax. I wasn’t happy with the engine responsiveness. I have never driven a supercharged performance automatic car before, but flooring it from a rolling start, I was surprised to find first the RPM shooting up and then it’s a a second or two later before you feel the acceleration. Is that normal?


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## Palerider (10 Nov 2018)

I drove a friends 142 Mercedes S350 loaded with €20k extras including a small widescreen tv with AMG spec, low mileage, he paid close to €50k tops with change, had me thinking.


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## PaddyBloggit (10 Nov 2018)

Palerider said:


> had me thinking



about what?


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## Palerider (11 Nov 2018)

PaddyBloggit said:


> about what?



About changing, lot of car for the money and have had good experiences with e class's.


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## PaddyBloggit (11 Nov 2018)

Palerider said:


> have had good experiences with e class's.



I have an E Class at the moment but I'm very tempted by the S Class ... looking at some nice second hand ones out there.


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## Bronte (12 Nov 2018)

landlord said:


> With over 1.5 mil mortgage debt perhaps I should also be keeping my spend on cars to a minimum......



Maybe you should. 

It's a crazy amount to spend on a car.


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## Bronte (12 Nov 2018)

SBarrett said:


> I work in Sandyford and see plenty of them. The acceleration out of them is unreal!!



And this is great why?


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## Purple (12 Nov 2018)

Bronte said:


> And this is great why?


You get to the back of the queue at the next set of lights faster.


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## Blackrock1 (12 Nov 2018)

Bronte said:


> And this is great why?


people like fast cars?


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## Blackrock1 (12 Nov 2018)

Bronte said:


> Maybe you should.
> 
> It's a crazy amount to spend on a car.


what is?


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## Bronte (12 Nov 2018)

Blackrock1 said:


> people like fast cars?


And where exactly can one go any faster than anybody else exactly?   Or where can one benefit from this fast car to more of an extent than normal priced cars?


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## iamaspinner (12 Nov 2018)

Mondello Park?


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## Leo (12 Nov 2018)

I think we can drop trying to rationalise why someone might need the performance levels offered by the cars under discussion here. If car choice was purely a utilitarian decision, cars like these wouldn't exist, we'd all be driving bland practical boxes. Extending the same logic to other purchase categories and we'd also living in small high density communities and by and large, industries such as fashion and cosmetics would be a small fraction of the size they are.


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## Purple (12 Nov 2018)

Bronte said:


> Maybe you should.
> 
> It's a crazy amount to spend on a car.


Some people buy paintings, some buy handbags and shoes, some buy jewelry, some buy cars. If you have the money and it's something you want then why not?
Oh, and men don't have midlife crisis, they just sometimes get to a stage in life where they can afford the things they have wanted since they were 16.


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## Carnmore (12 Nov 2018)

The boom has got boomier again


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## Bronte (12 Nov 2018)

Purple said:


> Some people buy paintings, some buy handbags and shoes, some buy jewelry, some buy cars. If you have the money and it's something you want then why not?
> Oh, and men don't have midlife crisis, they just sometimes get to a stage in life where they can afford the things they have wanted since they were 16.



A painting can be an investment. A car isn't.  The reason why not was given by the OP, he said that he owes 1.5 Million in mortgage debt.  And he could surely buy a really top car for 20K to 30K and knock 20K off his mortgage. 

The M50 is a car park, you can't move in Galway so what's the benefit of a fast car. It's not like you're going to be doing 1000 kilomoters at 200KM on the Authoban.  Some of the cities don't even have proper motorways between them. 

Plus fast cars are dangerous.


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## Bronte (12 Nov 2018)

Leo said:


> I think we can drop trying to rationalise why someone might need the performance levels offered by the cars under discussion here. If car choice was purely a utilitarian decision, cars like these wouldn't exist, we'd all be driving bland practical boxes. Extending the same logic to other purchase categories and we'd also living in small high density communities and by and large, industries such as fashion and cosmetics would be a small fraction of the size they are.



That reminds me, I was at a car show, and I got into a Mansaratti I think it was called, something like that and it cost an even crazier amount than the OP, and it was awful, low down and a really stupid door.  Some of them have crazy doors that would knock your head off and they are difficult to sit in. 

There was another car that was even more expensive and nobody was allowed near that. 

My husband always wanted an Audi for some reason and he managed to get a top of the range one for two months and he, me and the kids all hated it. Kids couldn't see out the window because it was so low, it had white leather seats and white carpets which is just about the most stupid thing you could imagine. The only thing I liked was that the seats heated up.  The great thing was it got the Audi out of his system.


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## Gordon Gekko (12 Nov 2018)

It’s an argument that just goes round and round. Is it logical to spend a significant amount on the car of your dreams? Probably not. Is it logical to spend a serious amount of money on a car when you’ve a mortgage? Probably not. But we’re human beings, not debt servicing robots. I have no interest in being the guy in the cemetary with the best LTV ratio. Life is about experiences and enjoyment; I’d much rather spend money on depreciation and holidays than overpay my mortgage by that amount. Otherwise, why am I bothering?


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## Blackrock1 (12 Nov 2018)

Bronte said:


> A painting can be an investment. A car isn't.



incorrect,i wish i had a 996 porsche gt3 in my garage.

if your argument held bronte everyone would wear pennys cloths and a 6 euro casio plastic watch, but they dont.


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## Leo (12 Nov 2018)

OK, let's move the good idea / bad idea discussion to another thread...


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## Purple (12 Nov 2018)

Leo said:


> OK, let's move the good idea / bad idea discussion to another thread...


Good idea as as least some of the next comments will be sexist.


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## galway_blow_in (12 Nov 2018)

Bronte said:


> Maybe you should.
> 
> It's a crazy amount to spend on a car.



Depends on income,average family saloon is around 35 k new,  50k isn't that much above .


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## galway_blow_in (12 Nov 2018)

landlord said:


> Without even looking at this, I am assuming this is in the highest co2 bracket.
> I just couldn’t justify spending over 2 grand road tax a year.
> I am leaning towards the Panamera e hybrid, although I have over 2 years to decide.
> I test drove an 2014 Audi S5 automatic last week, also 750 road tax. I wasn’t happy with the engine responsiveness. I have never driven a supercharged performance automatic car before, but flooring it from a rolling start, I was surprised to find first the RPM shooting up and then it’s a a second or two later before you feel the acceleration. Is that normal?



I'm aiming to buy the alfa stelvio in two or three years,  the 2.2 - 200 bhp is 52k new, biggest challenge will be finding one as alfa sell so poorly here, probably be a UK import job.

The quadrifoglio is a much higher powered engine but car identical otherwise.

Alfa romeo traditionally have huge depreciation so if you can get a good second hand, good discounts are likely, that said the more recent alfa have gotten good reviews so depreciation may lessen.


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## galway_blow_in (12 Nov 2018)

Bronte said:


> And where exactly can one go any faster than anybody else exactly?   Or where can one benefit from this fast car to more of an extent than normal priced cars?



We get it, a micra 1.1 litre 60bhp is every bit as good as a 190bhp plus 2.0 plus car.


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## galway_blow_in (12 Nov 2018)

Bronte said:


> A painting can be an investment. A car isn't.  The reason why not was given by the OP, he said that he owes 1.5 Million in mortgage debt.  And he could surely buy a really top car for 20K to 30K and knock 20K off his mortgage.
> 
> The M50 is a car park, you can't move in Galway so what's the benefit of a fast car. It's not like you're going to be doing 1000 kilomoters at 200KM on the Authoban.  Some of the cities don't even have proper motorways between them.
> 
> Plus fast cars are dangerous.



Every single car is " dangerous "


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## galway_blow_in (12 Nov 2018)

Bronte said:


> That reminds me, I was at a car show, and I got into a Mansaratti I think it was called, something like that and it cost an even crazier amount than the OP, and it was awful, low down and a really stupid door.  Some of them have crazy doors that would knock your head off and they are difficult to sit in.
> 
> There was another car that was even more expensive and nobody was allowed near that.
> 
> My husband always wanted an Audi for some reason and he managed to get a top of the range one for two months and he, me and the kids all hated it. Kids couldn't see out the window because it was so low, it had white leather seats and white carpets which is just about the most stupid thing you could imagine. The only thing I liked was that the seats heated up.  The great thing was it got the Audi out of his system.



Audi are boring.

Fancy volkswagen.

Might as well buy a skoda.


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