# Government approves legislation to provide for temporary stay on tenancy terminations



## Sarenco (18 Oct 2022)

Here’s the press release -





						Government approves legislation to provide for temporary stay on tenancy terminations this winter
					






					www.gov.ie
				



Imagine you were due to come home from a foreign posting before Christmas and could no longer access your home that you rented out while you were away?

Perhaps more importantly, this signals to landlords that the State can retrospectively change the rules to their disadvantage at a whim.


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## Sarenco (18 Oct 2022)

Chipmunk said:


> Have they said yet if the landlord has already served notice, or serves notice between now and 1st November is the termination will continue as normal ?


From the press release -

*Q. What happens if a person has already been served a notice of termination before the winter emergency period?*
Any person who has had a valid ‘no fault’ notice of termination served, will not have their tenancy terminated during the winter emergency period. The deferred date for the termination of such a tenancy will take effect based on a number of factors (that is, the date that the notice was served and the duration of the relevant tenancy) on a phased basis between 1 April - 18 June 2023.


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## RonnieShinbal88 (18 Oct 2022)

So it delays up to June 18th at the earliest (up to 8 months) any notice served after the ban comes in force.

That would appear to be highly challengeable as the official period of the 'temporary ban' only runs up to end March.

We are overriding constitutional rights in response to some specific time-limited event remember?

Why are people being blocked from selling in April, May and first hald of June after the so called temporary ban ceases to be in effect?

Presumably, serving notice in the next 2 weeks before the official period starts will allow sale from April 1st and potentially save people nearly 3 months of being locked out of a sale by the government intervention.

Shambolic to say the least.


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## Boyddbookman (18 Oct 2022)

Sarenco said:


> Just heard the Minister on the radio.
> 
> If I understood him correctly, there will be no moratorium on issuing termination notices and notice periods can continue to run during the moratorium period.
> 
> ...


As a matter of interest, do you know if the minister advised of an explicit end date for the moratorium ?    Thank you.

Having come out the wrong end of the "temporary" RPZ introduced in 2016, if I had not already issued termination notices to my few tenants recently, I would certainly have a concern that this proposed legislation is in fact the thin edge of the wedge.  Resultantly, I would immediately serve extended notices (1 or 2 year notice periods) to existing tenants (abiding by the most recent RTB rules).  

I expect this government decision will stop any further mom & pop investment in BTLs in the Irish market.  A Section 23/28/48 lever may be the only way to provide a future kickstart to this section of the market in Ireland... I wonder if this proposed legislation will have an impact on sale prices as investors rush to exit.

To alleviate the exodus of BTL investors, I'm sure one of the more informed posters will be able to put me straight on why the Dept of Finance does not step in to offer a CGT exemption (similar to the 2011-2014) offering and / or tax relief for (ahem...) unearned rental income against PAYE returns over a 2-4 year period.  That would slow down the exodus of small BTL investors I expect, at least in the short term.  Having said that, personally, based on the various reports outlining this moratorium, I would now have a concern about the continued erosion of asset  and property rights for non-incorporated individuals and the possible impact to investors exiting the market normally (sale) in future.

Very much finger in the air numbers, but as a direct result of government meddling, if an additional 6,000 investors exit the market each year, who would otherwise remain, and each (on average, subject to CGT) clear €100K per property and invest overseas instead... that is a notional €600m of wealth per year that is leaving the Irish economy.   Keen to be enlightened and corrected....


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## NoRegretsCoyote (18 Oct 2022)

I thought the Covid-era restrictions on termination made huge sense. In a pandemic you don't want people moving around, the market had gummed up anyway, and lots of people were thrust into in financial difficulty.


This new policy is daft, however as the market is more or less in a normal state right now. It will benefit at most a thousand tenants, many of whom have financial or other resources and aren't in need of protection at all.

It will alienate far more landlords who (even if not personally affected) feel that it is just another attack on their property rights.


It will do very little to placate the government's political enemies who will just say it should have been done sooner, or should be permanent.


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## Sarenco (18 Oct 2022)

RonnieShinbal88 said:


> Presumably, serving notice in the next 2 weeks before the official period starts will allow sale from April 1st and potentially save people nearly 3 months of being locked out of a sale by the government intervention.


I wouldn't make that presumption.

We obviously need to see the legislation to be sure but the Press Release says that the deferred date for the termination of a tenancy that would otherwise have terminated during the "winter emergency period" will take effect based on a number of factors (that is, the date that the notice was served and the duration of the relevant tenancy) on a phased basis between 1 April - 18 June 2023.


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## Sarenco (18 Oct 2022)

Boyddbookman said:


> As a matter of interest, do you know if the minister advised of an explicit end date for the moratorium ?


There isn't really any moratorium - it's a deferral of the termination of tenancies.


Boyddbookman said:


> Resultantly, I would immediately serve extended notices (1 or 2 year notice periods) to existing tenants (abiding by the most recent RTB rules).


That won't make any difference - the termination of the tenancy will still be deferred.


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## RonnieShinbal88 (18 Oct 2022)

Sarenco said:


> Imagine you were due to come home from a foreign posting before Christmas and could no longer access your home that you rented out while you were away?


What's bizarre is that these people are more likely to have a lease with tenants less than 6 months and are particularly penalised - being last in the queue at a minimum of June 23 for vacation:

"Any notice of termination served during the winter emergency period in respect of tenancies of less than 6 months’ duration cannot specify a termination date that falls earlier than 18 June 2023."

Why the need to block these, are they worried that much about landlords who came in changing their minds?
What could possibly cause that!?


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## Boyddbookman (18 Oct 2022)

Sarenco said:


> There isn't really any moratorium - it's a deferral of the termination of tenancies.
> 
> That won't make any difference - the termination of the tenancy will still be deferred.


Thank you Sarenco.

Serving the long notice period terminations is not intended as a response to the forthcoming deferral, it would be to ensure a notice to vacate has been issued while it is still legal to do so, even if the notice period is 12-24 months out.   It may be too knee-jerk, but one has to wonder what response the Minister for Housing is going to implement to stymie the flood of termination notices that will be effected in Mar-Jun 2023.

I do not follow the reasoning why this deferral of 6-8 months is deemed to have any positive impact.  It may just result in an additional number of small BTL investors running for the door.... so in effect it is exacerbating the problem.  Although my own long term plan was to remain a BTL investor long term, I am now glad to be getting out.


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## AlbacoreA (18 Oct 2022)

..and its done...









						Govt signs off on eviction ban from November to March
					

The Government has signed off on an evictions ban to run from November to the end of March.




					www.rte.ie


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## RonnieShinbal88 (18 Oct 2022)

Boyddbookman said:


> Thank you Sarenco.
> 
> Serving the long notice period terminations is not intended as a response to the forthcoming deferral, it would be to ensure a notice to vacate has been issued while it is still legal to do so, even if the notice period is 12-24 months out.   It may be too knee-jerk, but one has to wonder what response the Minister for Housing is going to implement to stymie the flood of termination notices that will be effected in Mar-Jun 2023.
> 
> I do not follow the reasoning why this deferral of 6-8 months is deemed to have any positive impact.  It may just result in an additional number of small BTL investors running for the door.... so in effect it is exacerbating the problem.  Although my own long term plan was to remain a BTL investor long term, I am now glad to be getting out.



Notices of 12 -24 months are exactly what this government want Boyd, as it gets them to the next election and buys more time. That's the 'positive impact' we are dealing with. This is purely political.


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## AlbacoreA (18 Oct 2022)

Kicking can down road politics.


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## Greenbook (18 Oct 2022)

RonnieShinbal88 said:


> What's bizarre is that these people are more likely to have a lease with tenants less than 6 months and are particularly penalised - being last in the queue at a minimum of June 23 for vacation:
> 
> "Any notice of termination served during the winter emergency period in respect of tenancies of less than 6 months’ duration cannot specify a termination date that falls earlier than 18 June 2023."
> 
> ...


I have heard (anecdotal only) that some landlords were only letting for 6 months ie. grant a tenant a 6 month lease, evict at the end of the 6 months and grant a new lease to a new tenant again for 6 months then repeat. Perhaps they are trying to stop this. The 3 month notice on 6 month tenancies may have been introduced with the same idea in mind


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## AlbacoreA (18 Oct 2022)

Perhaps they should consider why LL might be doing this rather than destroying supply completely. 

They won't though.


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## valery (18 Oct 2022)

The new legislation was discussed by Pat Kenny on his show today.  He spoke about “throwing people out at the side of the road”.
Very emotive language for an Irish audience. 
A bit of balance from the media would not go amiss.


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## DannyBoyD (18 Oct 2022)

Would sooner leave my property empty at this stage


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## Sarenco (18 Oct 2022)

Thinking about this a bit more, this legislation is going to result in a glut of termination notices all taking effect next Spring - even with the phasing proposed by the Minister.

You have all the deferred terminations from this Winter, plus all the terminations that would take effect in Spring in the ordinary course. 

That is going to put even further pressure on the rental market over a condensed time period.

Every government intervention in the rental market is just adding to the dysfunction.


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## AlbacoreA (18 Oct 2022)

There's an obvious fix to when it ends. Kick that down the road too.


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## Mamamia22 (18 Oct 2022)

This is a shambles. Nobody will buy a BTL in this country again. Too much government interference. They will regret this when an avalanche of eviction notices land next week. Did I hear correctly that this ban extends to licensees/ room to rent ?


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## Mocame (18 Oct 2022)

Mamamia22 said:


> This is a shambles. Nobody will buy a BTL in this country again. Too much government interference. They will regret this when an avalanche of eviction notices land next week. Did I hear correctly that this ban extends to licensees/ room to rent ?


Yes you did hear right.  The USI are demanding that full tenancy rights are extended to licensees.  Can you imagine - you offer digs in your house to a student in the local university and they have full tenancy rights in your home and you can't evict them?  Who in their right mind would offer a room to rent in future?  Obviously no one in USI is studying economics!


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## Sarenco (18 Oct 2022)

Well, the press release states that - 

"The legislation will also cover licences/tenancies in student specific accommodation and student tenancies in the general rental market."

I don't think that's meant to include digs or rent-a-room scenarios but we will have to wait for the legislation to be sure.


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## JoeRoberts (18 Oct 2022)

It would be sensible to allow an exemption for landlords who are willing to sell to the local authority - that gives an option out and may also wake the govt up to the future capital cost to the state of providing rented property - RTB could publish the number of termination notices with this exemption and then someone in Govt could do the math for the cost to do the buyout.


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## NoRegretsCoyote (18 Oct 2022)

But what does "take effect" mean here?



> A notice of termination can still be served, but it cannot take effect during the winter emergency period.



Suppose you have a tenancy that's lasted already between one and seven years and are obliged to give 180 days notice. You serve a termination of tenancy on 20 December 2022, exactly 180 days before 18 June 2023.

Does the tenant have to vacate by 18 June 2023 at the latest? If so there won't be much real impact as the vast majority of tenancies have lasted between one and seven years where the notice period is already 180 days. So for anyone planning to serve a termination of tenancy next week in effect it is being delayed from mid-April to mid-June.


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## Brendan Burgess (18 Oct 2022)

Mocame said:


> Obviously no one in USI is studying economics!



or human psychology


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## DannyBoyD (18 Oct 2022)

Sarenco said:


> rent-a-room scenarios


I dont see how it could include someone sharing with the property owner.

If it did then any  guest in your house could refuse to leave & you wouldnt be able to do anything about it.

Its not possible to register rent a room sharers on RTB anyway.


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## Bridget1984 (18 Oct 2022)

I hope somebody challenges this in the high court but the fear of been labelled "far right" might put landlords off taking a challenge.


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## Sarenco (18 Oct 2022)

I think it’s interesting that the media keep calling this proposed legislation an “eviction ban”.  It’s nothing of the sort.

If I validly terminated a tenancy some time ago and secure an Eviction Order from the Courts, there’s nothing to stop the Sheriff executing that order on Christmas Eve.

The more I think about it, the more I’m convinced that this proposed legislation is totally daft.  All it’s going to do is defer terminations and amplify the number of tenancies that terminate next Spring.  What does that achieve?


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## MrViking (18 Oct 2022)

This is only step 1. The “moratorium” will be extended in April as it will be politically difficult not to do so. Government will roll the dice on a constitutional challenge. By the time this makes it way through courts, SF will be in power and running a referendum on right to housing…..paving pathway to permanent tenancy. This is how this is going to play out.


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## MrViking (18 Oct 2022)

But regardless of whether this plays out or not, I’m about to ignore the first 10 calls from my tenants on all issues. The boiler will give up at some stage. That’s what this legislation will achieve.


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## RonnieShinbal88 (19 Oct 2022)

I think it's clear the government want to reduce the number of small landlords from the market, but not immediately.
This is why incentives to stay are not being offered, long term they don't want them to stay.

The saving grace is that the interests of small landlords are aligned with the REITs and the developers and the measures announced from the CBoI are going to support prices you'd imagine while landlords are prevented from selling.

So an orderly exit around current price levels over the next couple of years might be possible, but who knows.

It will be small comfort to some of the people with a pressing need to sell or move back to their property for any reason.


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## annduf (19 Oct 2022)

Hello I have issued notice to my tenants which is up to the 25th of October, as they could not secure accommodation I did offer them them to stay until the 11th December, this offer was verbal and a text sent, to which they have not acknowledged. Will this eviction ban affect me as I did say they could stay until the 11th December. ( Hoping not as I am gone sale agreed on the house). Appreciate any replies on this.


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## RonnieShinbal88 (19 Oct 2022)

annduf said:


> Hello I have issued notice to my tenants which is up to the 25th of October, as they could not secure accommodation I did offer them them to stay until the 11th December, this offer was verbal and a text sent, to which they have not acknowledged. Will this eviction ban affect me as I did say they could stay until the 11th December. ( Hoping not as I am gone sale agreed on the house). Appreciate any replies on this.


If they don't have anywhere to go on December 11th my interpretation would be that you can't make them leave. The spirit of this is no no-fault evictions over the winter, what you describe seems to be exactly what they brought this in to prevent. In this case your flexibility on the original date is being punished. Tenants are probably well aware of their rights now to stay until April at the earliest. But maybe you should seek some legal advice, sorry to hear about this. It sounds like you would be a good candidate for a property rights test case/legal action.


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## T McGibney (19 Oct 2022)

annduf said:


> Hello I have issued notice to my tenants which is up to the 25th of October, as they could not secure accommodation I did offer them them to stay until the 11th December, this offer was verbal and a text sent, to which they have not acknowledged. Will this eviction ban affect me as I did say they could stay until the 11th December. ( Hoping not as I am gone sale agreed on the house). Appreciate any replies on this.


Get legal advice and get your ducks in a row immediately. I wouldn't even be disclosing what you've posted here in case you're inadvertently forewarning others at your expense.


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## Horatio (19 Oct 2022)

annduf said:


> Hello I have issued notice to my tenants which is up to the 25th of October, as they could not secure accommodation I did offer them them to stay until the 11th December, this offer was verbal and a text sent, to which they have not acknowledged. Will this eviction ban affect me as I did say they could stay until the 11th December. ( Hoping not as I am gone sale agreed on the house). Appreciate any replies on this.


Consider pivoting the arrangement from Tenancy to a Licensee arrangement on the original termination date.
Take up Residence in a room in the house yourself & come & go with your own key &  use the common areas.

Once your generous extension has been reached then the now Licensees move on. 
Of course they'll need to buy in to this arrangement.


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## dereko1969 (19 Oct 2022)

MrViking said:


> But regardless of whether this plays out or not, I’m about to ignore the first 10 calls from my tenants on all issues. The boiler will give up at some stage. That’s what this legislation will achieve.


That's classy, says a lot about your attitude to other people.


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## dereko1969 (19 Oct 2022)

annduf said:


> Hello I have issued notice to my tenants which is up to the 25th of October, as they could not secure accommodation I did offer them them to stay until the 11th December, this offer was verbal and a text sent, to which they have not acknowledged. Will this eviction ban affect me as I did say they could stay until the 11th December. ( Hoping not as I am gone sale agreed on the house). Appreciate any replies on this.


I could be wrong and the advice to get advice is sound - but you're not issuing a standard "no-fault" eviction, you're evicting because the property is sold/in process of being sold.


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## RonnieShinbal88 (19 Oct 2022)

dereko1969 said:


> I could be wrong and the advice to get advice is sound - but you're not issuing a standard "no-fault" eviction, you're evicting because the property is sold/in process of being sold.


That is still a no-fault eviction, the majority of termination notices recently are because properties are being sold. No-fault eviction is anything outside of the tenant not paying or doing damage/anti social behaviour etc.


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## Sarenco (19 Oct 2022)

annduf said:


> Hello I have issued notice to my tenants which is up to the 25th of October, as they could not secure accommodation I did offer them them to stay until the 11th December, this offer was verbal and a text sent, to which they have not acknowledged. Will this eviction ban affect me as I did say they could stay until the 11th December. ( Hoping not as I am gone sale agreed on the house). Appreciate any replies on this.


Assuming the notice was validly issued, the tenancy will terminate on 25 October.  Thereafter, you are allowing the former tenants to remain in occupation as mere licencees until 11 December.  So, no, I don't think the proposed Bill will have any impact on you (although we would have to see the draft Bill to be certain).

Of course, none of that guarantees that you will actually get vacant possession on 11 December.  The only way to legally do that is to get an Eviction Order from the Courts, having completed the RTB palaver, and then wait for the Sherriff to execute same.  That process typically takes around two years to complete.

Despite what is reported in the press, this proposed legislation actually has nothing to do with evictions - it will simply defer the termination of tenancies over the stated period.


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## RonnieShinbal88 (19 Oct 2022)

Sarenco said:


> Assuming the notice was validly issued, the tenancy will terminate on 25 October.  Thereafter, you are allowing the former tenants to remain in occupation as mere licencees until 11 December.  So, no, I don't think the proposed Bill will have any impact on you (although we would have to see the draft Bill to be certain).
> 
> Of course, none of that guarantees that you will actually get vacant possession on 11 December.  The only way to legally do that is to get an Eviction Order from the Courts, having completed the RTB palaver, and then wait for the Sherriff to execute same.  That process typically takes u to two years to complete.


Sounds even more important to get legal advice and communicate this clearly with the tenants, get a letter from your solicitor if possible. They will need references if renting again so it's in everyone's interests to try to come to some arrangement. What you don't want is them giving up on even looking for a new place because they think that a blanket eviction ban means that they can stay until April or June, so a letter outlining that might be useful.


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## dereko1969 (19 Oct 2022)

RonnieShinbal88 said:


> That is still a no-fault eviction, the majority of termination notices recently are because properties are being sold. No-fault eviction is anything outside of the tenant not paying or doing damage/anti social behaviour etc.


My mistake so.


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## jfrank (19 Oct 2022)

MrViking said:


> This is only step 1. The “moratorium” will be extended in April as it will be politically difficult not to do so. Government will roll the dice on a constitutional challenge. By the time this makes it way through courts, SF will be in power and running a referendum on right to housing…..paving pathway to permanent tenancy. This is how this is going to play out.


There will be one mad exodus for the door by Mom and Pop landlords in that scenario exacerbating the current exodus


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## MrViking (19 Oct 2022)

dereko1969 said:


> That's classy, says a lot about your attitude to other people.


That’s me kid! 

Rent controls + high inflation + permanent tenancy = cantankerous landlord!

And I don’t think this will be just me once the impact of high price inflation on “real” rents becomes more tangible for folks.


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## PebbleBeach2020 (19 Oct 2022)

MrViking said:


> That’s me kid!
> 
> Rent controls + high inflation + permanent tenancy = cantankerous landlord!
> 
> And I don’t think this will be just me once the impact of high price inflation on “real” rents becomes more tangible for folks.


My mortgage interest will have gone up over 2500 euro a year it the ECB increases rates as predicted by the end of the year. My property is below market rent by about 40% (didn't increase rent for years cause tenants were excellent). Paying for this now of course. 

So forget about inflation and repairs, maintenance etc increasing in cost, the mortgage interest going thru the roof, I can only increase the rent by 300 euro a year gross and my costs have gone up over 8 times that amount. That's not fair at all and I won't be repairing anything in the house in the urgency that I always prided myself on previously. 

I don't even want to charge market rent, but even if instead of 40% under market rent, if I could close the gap to 20% I would be happy. But the RPZ that were meant to be temporary, will never be removed I'd imagine, so I'm left with no option but to sell up and serve notice.


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## MrViking (19 Oct 2022)

PebbleBeach2020 said:


> My mortgage interest will have gone up over 2500 euro a year it the ECB increases rates as predicted by the end of the year. My property is below market rent by about 40% (didn't increase rent for years cause tenants were excellent). Paying for this now of course.
> 
> So forget about inflation and repairs, maintenance etc increasing in cost, the mortgage interest going thru the roof, I can only increase the rent by 300 euro a year gross and my costs have gone up over 8 times that amount. That's not fair at all and I won't be repairing anything in the house in the urgency that I always prided myself on previously.
> 
> I don't even want to charge market rent, but even if instead of 40% under market rent, if I could close the gap to 20% I would be happy. But the RPZ that were meant to be temporary, will never be removed I'd imagine, so I'm left with no option but to sell up and serve notice.


Your are experiencing now, what will become the norm for all landlords in a few years time…..once the effect of RPZ limits begins to bite. You are a few years ahead as you got locked into below market rents. I can feel your pain. 

I’m annoyed at FG/FF for adopting a series of socialist policies on housing which were never going to achieve anything other than to kill off the private market supply. Now they are simply doubling down on the same failed policies in order to be seen to be doing something. They will still get destroyed in the next election, regardless….so all they have achieved is to further erode their base support. The sad thing is that there’s no party I would vote for now. No alternative with a backbone to stick to a centre right ideology. Who ever said democracy was best? A hybrid between democracy and dictatorship may be better…..comes with risks, but at least we’d have politicians with the balls to make the right long term decisions!


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## RonnieShinbal88 (20 Oct 2022)

Agree that we need some long term infrastructure dictator, independent appointee that looks after the long term common good (we have recently established that the common good can be determined without any debate as it's self evident so there are no political risks). This could be an appointment along the lines of the Central Bank Governer.

They get allocated N% of the budget. Government gets to play with 100-N%, as they demonstrably can't be trusted to do long term planning with the full budget. 

Something needs to be done as it seems we are at the point where we have to suspend property rights to look after the common good.
That is obviously a massive failure of government planning.

The new role of Housing Governer, could come with perks, starting with a free tent in the Phoenix park and get their housing upgraded as they got the job done.


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## NoRegretsCoyote (20 Oct 2022)

*Residential Tenancies (Deferment of Termination Dates of Certain Tenancies) Bill 2022* is published.


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## T McGibney (20 Oct 2022)

Deferment. 

At least the title tries to be honest.


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## Sarenco (20 Oct 2022)

So the Bill says that all references to a landlord shall be construed to include a licensor and all references to a tenant shall be construed to include a licensee.

But licensors are not required to give their licensees notices of termination so how does that work?  What exactly is deferred in that scenario?

Bonkers stuff.


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## T McGibney (20 Oct 2022)

Sarenco said:


> So the Bill says that all references to a landlord shall be construed to include a licensor and all references to a tenant shall be construed to include a licensee.
> 
> But licensors are not required to give their licensees notices of termination so how does that work?  What exactly is deferred in that scenario?
> 
> Bonkers stuff


So if you or I book into a fancy hotel a few hours before this kicks in, paying for one night, we can stay as long as we like until the Act expires, without paying a further cent?

They're making this up on the hoof.


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## Sarenco (20 Oct 2022)

T McGibney said:


> So if you or I book into a fancy hotel a few hours before this kicks in, paying for one night, we can stay as long as we like until the Act expires, without paying a further cent?
> 
> They're making this up on the hoof.


Well, no.

Again, this Bill has nothing to do with evictions.  All it does is defer the termination of certain tenancies.

The point of which completely eludes me.


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## NoRegretsCoyote (20 Oct 2022)

Sarenco said:


> So the Bill says that all references to a landlord shall be construed to include a licensor and all references to a tenant shall be construed to include a licensee.


But only in relation to section 37 of the RTA Amendment act of 2019.

I'm lost I have to admit


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## NoRegretsCoyote (20 Oct 2022)

The bill says:



> in order to mitigate the risk that persons whose tenancies would otherwise be terminated during that period would be unable to obtain alternative accommodation;



I have zero idea what "emergency" there is today that will not be there on 1 April 2023. The rental market is extremely tight and landlords are leaving for well-known reasons. That is not going to change and there is no magic supply of alternative accommodation that is going to emerge by then.

All this will do is defer the process a bit and lead to a glut of terminations at a later point.

I guess winter will be over then.....is homelessness more palatable in spring than December?


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## Babby (20 Oct 2022)

It looks like even if you have served a termination notice the end date is now deferred - am I correct in my reading of this ?


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## Sarenco (20 Oct 2022)

NoRegretsCoyote said:


> I guess winter will be over then.....is homelessness more palatable in spring than December?


Bear in mind that this Bill has nothing to do with evictions.

A tenant whose lease terminates next Spring won't face eviction for months (or even years) under our system.

This Bill is really nothing more than virtue signalling - it doesn't solve anything in a practical sense.


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## Sarenco (20 Oct 2022)

Babby said:


> It looks like even if you have served a termination notice the end date is now deferred - am I correct in my reading of this ?


Yes.


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## Greenbook (20 Oct 2022)

NoRegretsCoyote said:


> But only in relation to section 37 of the RTA Amendment act of 2019.
> 
> I'm lost I have to admit


That section defines 'licensor' and 'licensee' as limited to student situations only - so current Bill does not apply to having a lodger in your own house


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## Greenbook (20 Oct 2022)

Babby said:


> It looks like even if you have served a termination notice the end date is now deferred - am I correct in my reading of this ?


Yes, that is correct


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## S0@p0per@ (20 Oct 2022)

Is the end date only deferred if its already served, and lands between November and April ? eg if the termination date is October 26th 2022, does this avoid the ban ?


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## Greenbook (21 Oct 2022)

S0@p0per@ said:


> Is the end date only deferred if its already served, and lands between November and April ? eg if the termination date is October 26th 2022, does this avoid the ban ?


It might, the ban applies from the date the legislation is enacted. That will be pretty soon though


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## RonnieShinbal88 (21 Oct 2022)

S0@p0per@ said:


> Is the end date only deferred if its already served, and lands between November and April ? eg if the termination date is October 26th 2022, does this avoid the ban ?


If the tenants don't leave on that date does it then become a 'fault' eviction rather than a 'no fault' eviction and they have to leave, but how are you going to make them leave etc. 

Also if you issue an eviction notice now with a date of April 21st, it would appear to be clear of the legislation, however someone with a date falling in the Nov- March period is being told their eviction will be dealt with on a sliding basis between April and June, so could in fact be later than one issued now? 

All very confusing.


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## Silversurfer (21 Oct 2022)

Reading all of this is tragic for so many people. Those who have invested in property for their pension. Those who have inherited property from parents. Those who have to sell for whatever reason. Those who wish to move either themselves or their families back into their property. My story is I have rented a granny flat for the past eight years. The rent has never been increased. The person renting has only ever worked for 6 months. They never paid a deposit (no issue with this) Now I am left in the unenviable position of counting down the months to give notice. This person will never find the same type of accommodation again. Having no income and pets is a big ask when times are good. I cannot risk what is inevitably coming down the line.


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## RonnieShinbal88 (22 Oct 2022)

Silversurfer said:


> Reading all of this is tragic for so many people. Those who have invested in property for their pension. Those who have inherited property from parents. Those who have to sell for whatever reason. Those who wish to move either themselves or their families back into their property. My story is I have rented a granny flat for the past eight years. The rent has never been increased. The person renting has only ever worked for 6 months. They never paid a deposit (no issue with this) Now I am left in the unenviable position of counting down the months to give notice. This person will never find the same type of accommodation again. Having no income and pets is a big ask when times are good. I cannot risk what is inevitably coming down the line.


It looks as though any notice of termination served now/after the act cannot specify a date earlier than June 18th, so there is no point in issuing a 6 month notice until December. I'm renting to a family and not looking forward to it either, it wasn't the plan at all. Still a couple of months to consider. My concerns are:

  Risk of not being able to sell without tenants in situe in the future (I'd have indefinite duration lease from around 18 months in the future and worry things will change down the line on those, and all leases are moving to those) 
The property value then becomes tied to the rent (or you have to wait for tenants to move out, but they might move out and sublet or rent to family etc., e.g. see rent controlled apartments in NY) 
This rent is going to fall behind inflation over the current/coming years of high inflation and will never get adjusted up to catch up.
The risk of having to pay the second mortgage (and a 2k service charge) for two years with no rent coming in due to the slow eviction process, I can't really afford that right now. 
As others are mentioning,  having to invest money over time in the property without the rent justifying any investment isn't that appealing, I've had a number of costs this year.
Finally personal CGT considerations, the rental was my PPR for 10 years about half of my ownership time and that proportion will drop over time increasing CGT percentage.
I'd like to be able to hold on as a pension plan, but would want the option to sell with appropriate notice and this option looks like it's disappearing.

Imagine having an apartment in NY worth millions that you can't sell and receive rental yield of a fraction of a percent on, that's where we might be headed in the RPZ areas.


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## Mocame (27 Nov 2022)

Eviction ban should be extended for two to three years, says Fr Peter McVerry
					

`Should be illegal for anybody to offer an Airbnb if it doesn’t conform to the regulations’




					www.irishtimes.com
				




And so it begins .......


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## Groucho (28 Nov 2022)

Mocame said:


> Eviction ban should be extended for two to three years, says Fr Peter McVerry
> 
> 
> `Should be illegal for anybody to offer an Airbnb if it doesn’t conform to the regulations’
> ...



Another very convincing argument for not, under any circumstances, contributing to his Trust!


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## T McGibney (28 Nov 2022)

Groucho said:


> Another very convincing argument for not, under any circumstances, contributing to his Trust!


They started campaigning for rent controls in 2016 after consulting with "major institutional investors"



			https://twitter.com/PMVTrust/status/789012075012128768?s=20&t=6bwioOhl3wHman3bTf0Q4Q


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## Purple (28 Nov 2022)

Groucho said:


> Another very convincing argument for not, under any circumstances, contributing to his Trust!


I agree. They are on the same list as Focus Ireland and the VDeP


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## lff12 (29 Nov 2022)

RonnieShinbal88 said:


> So it delays up to June 18th at the earliest (up to 8 months) any notice served after the ban comes in force.
> 
> That would appear to be highly challengeable as the official period of the 'temporary ban' only runs up to end March.
> 
> ...


Can't wait to see what the secondary sales market for ex-rentals looks like in February and March.


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