# Planning query for uninhabited pre 1963 house



## mburke (13 Jul 2010)

For a house that was build before 1963 and is now not habitable what type of planning permission should be applied for ? 
Can the old structure be knocked and replaced due to its current state or would a new build need to incorporate the old structure ?


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## Superman (13 Jul 2010)

mburke said:


> For a house that was build before 1963 and is now not habitable what type of planning permission should be applied for ?
> Can the old structure be knocked and replaced due to its current state or would a new build need to incorporate the old structure ?



There will be issues as to whether the existing dwelling still exists as authorised development or not.  It is likely that it will not. This should be based on whether there was an intention to abandon the structure and how long it has been uninhabitable.  Planning authorities tend to take a less legalistic (and therefore incorrect) approach to this though - so it is worth speaking to the Planning Authority to see if they consider it to be abandoned.

If it is considered abandoned (as it would appear that it is) then you are basically looking at a green field (like any other green field). That means there are no Planning Law issues about putting any new house anywhere, but you will be required to apply for a full Permission.  

There may however be ordinary Planning principles which would indicate that the existing location is best for any new dwelling.


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## Peter Sweeny (13 Jul 2010)

Certain factors come into play including the state of dereliction of the property including if and until when, the property was occupied.
Exempted development maybe available on the existing structure under the Derelict Sites Act 1990 if not available under the Planning and Development Regulations 2001.
Check with Local Authority Planning department for their opinion.


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## RKQ (14 Jul 2010)

I recently had an old stone house in the corner of a very restrictive site. It was beside the road, leaving the rest of the site for growing veg or keeping a few animals.

There was just 4 stone walls - no roof, no windows or doors. The Planning Authority would allow a new small house on the site provided it was "linked" or connected to the old stone house! This proved extremely difficult to do.


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## TheRed (14 Jul 2010)

If the structure is pre-63, there are no problems as far as that is concerned.

If it is not habitable and has not been habitable for 7 years it has a nil use and can be used for some agricultural uses, which means you need planning permission for any other use (eg dwelling house)

To get planning permission in a rural area to change the use from a derelict non-habitable structure to a dwelling house, you will usually need to comply with the Council's local need policy (ie family ties, functional need to live in the area etc), unless it is in an area that is experiencing population decline and the Council want to tackle this by waiving usual local need requirements. 

If you propose to renovate and/or extend the derelict structure, this may count a little in your favour, however you will still need to meet road safety, water quality standards etc (that is leaving the sticky issue of local need to one side). 

If you want to knock the structure and build a new one, you may as well be purchasing a greenfield site.


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## TheRed (14 Jul 2010)

Derelict Sites Act 1990 is for urban areas only, so exempt works pursuant to a Derelict Sites notice would not apply in this case.


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## mburke (14 Jul 2010)

Thanks for all the replies, the current structure would be classed as urban as it is just within the city limits. It hasn't been lived in over the last 15 years at least. When it was being lived in it had water from the main, electricity etc.


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## mburke (23 Jul 2010)

Does anyone have a link to a list of structural engineers in the west ? I am looking to get a structural report with regards to this dwelling.


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## onq (23 Jul 2010)

mburke,

If the house is substantially complete - i.e. with structure and envelope relatively intact - regardless of leaks, etc. - and disregarding when it was last occupied, it is efffectively an empty pre-63 house.

Many rural villages possess these, and you canmake a case for its continuance on historical and "village fabric" grounds alone, without even getting into its substantially complete situation.

In terms of the legalistic reference SUperman makes, I agree with him.

There was a provision in the original Planning and Development Act 2000 wherein under the then enforceable "2-year" permissions, IIRC houses would not be subject to enforcement proceedings to complete if they were up to wall level - please could someone correct me if I am recalling this incorrectly?

This led to the position that once a house was complete up to wall plate level [i.e. the walls were standing] - an application for continuance of the permission to allow completion if it was near the end of the five year Grant period, would not be unreasonably withheld.

It follows that four walls may have a standing in law in relation to your house.

More importantly several local authorities, desiring new blood and renewal of housing stock, [e.g. Donegal Co. Co.] have taken a view - expressed in their development plan - about the restoring and rebuilding of residential property, in several states of disrepair and despite intervening years.

However there is usually a tie-in to the area required for one or more of the applicants, but you should fully research the development plan and talk to the planners before you go near this.

As RKQ has said, there can be associated requirements as well which can prove difficult to satisfy.

ONQ

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