# Eating out: how can British pub/restaurants do it so cheaply?



## Protocol (14 Nov 2009)

As I browsed the web tonight, I found Mitchells & Butlers, a UK quoted pub chain.

http://www.mbplc.com/index.asp

They operate several types of pubs / restaurants. See the list here:

http://www.mbplc.com/index.asp?pageid=589


One of their pub chains is called Crown Carveries:
http://www.crowncarveries.co.uk/

They sell a carvery meal all day every day for 3.50 stg. I simple can not understand how they can do it at this low price (approx. 4.00-4.50 euro)

I recently paid 12 euro in Malahide for a carvery. I know it may be available elsewhere at 9-10 euro.

*My question: how can they sell these meals at a profit for 3.50stg, while we can't seem to be able to do it for double that?*

The M&B group have another chain called Toby carvery, where the meal is priced at 5 stg, approx 6 euro
http://www.toby-carvery.co.uk/

See below:

*Toby's Famous Mon*-Sat Lunch Carvery FROM £5~*

A choice of beautifully cooked joints of meat – it’s what we’re famous for and why you keep coming back.
Choose from one or all of our three succulent roasts:

*British or Irish Beef*
*Honey & Mustard Glazed Gammon*
*British Turkey*
There's always a great choice of freshly steamed or roasted vegetables on offer. And they're constantly being replaced all day, so you can be sure that every time you go back for more, they'll have all their flavour. Everyone's favourite is Yorkshire pudding cooked to perfection in-house by our own chefs, plus our delicious sauces and gravies and our oven-baked stuffing.  Go on, have as much as you like of these - we know you'll want to.


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## MOB (14 Nov 2009)

It's about trimming costs and hitting sufficient volume.  To be absolutely fair, it's not completely unheard of to get a meat and veg meal in Ireland for around the €5 mark.  I did last year in Ballinrobe ( it was unexciting, but I have to concede it was perfectly adequate if you just wanted to fill up)


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## Purple (15 Nov 2009)

The quality of food in England is, in my experience, far lower than here. Add lower rent, lower insurance, lower taxes and (the big one) much lower wages, and you have the answer.


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## mosstown (15 Nov 2009)

your right there Purple.  one of the things i most enjoy every time i go back home from the UK to Ireland is the food.  Bacon, sausages, eggs, bread, icecream, chocolate, tea, ham, all meats, potatoes, all vegetables.  an irish fry up is away above any fry up in the UK.


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## gipimann (15 Nov 2009)

I've had the £5 Toby carvery several times on visits to the UK, and they certainly don't skimp on quantity or quality - it's as good a carvery meal as I've had.


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## Vanilla (15 Nov 2009)

There may also be a bit of the 'ryan air' model of profit- in that they assume you will buy drink/dessert/extras? 

I've only ever eaten a carvery lunch in a British pub once, the meal was actually quite nice- it was a set menu but you paid extra for drinks, different desserts ( the ones on the set plan weren't as nice as the a la carte menu) etc.


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## gipimann (15 Nov 2009)

True, Vanilla, the £5 is main meal only, all drinks are extra.


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## bullworth (15 Nov 2009)

gipimann said:


> True, Vanilla, the £5 is main meal only, all drinks are extra.



A pint in a British pub is half the price of a pint in a Irish pub. A pint would be an extra in an Irish pub too.


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## z107 (15 Nov 2009)

I've never has a problem with the quality of the food in the UK. ( Indeed, I'd make the trip over just to get a proper curry 
Many places in the UK also do all you can eat buffet food, for very reasonable price. When I was there last, there was a fair crowd in them in the middle of the day.

I can't stand carvery stuff. I've tried Toby a la carte, and it was reasonable enough.

If anyone is interested in high-end dining experience:
http://www.3starrestaurants.com/michelin-restaurants-star-guide.asp
Luxembourg seems to be the place to go.


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## LouisCribben (15 Nov 2009)

Purple said:


> The quality of food in England is, in my experience, far lower than here. Add lower rent, lower insurance, lower taxes and (the big one) much lower wages, and you have the answer.


 
In my experience, I totally disagree that the quality of food in England is worse than here. I would say it's very similar. In the supermarkets, it's pretty much identical, and in the restaurants, England has a mix of everything from average to 3 michelin star.


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## LouisCribben (15 Nov 2009)

mosstown said:


> your right there Purple. one of the things i most enjoy every time i go back home from the UK to Ireland is the food. Bacon, sausages, eggs, bread, icecream, chocolate, tea, ham, all meats, potatoes, all vegetables. an irish fry up is away above any fry up in the UK.


 
You listed a host of ingredients which are all readily available in the UK.
You don't have to go to Ireland to get "Bacon, sausages, eggs, bread, icecream, chocolate, tea, ham, all meats, potatoes, all vegetables".
You can get all of these things in the UK in abundance in any supermarket.


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## sunrock (15 Nov 2009)

Maybe its the fresh damp air the food is consumed with..definetly helps the appetite and taste buds.


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## Chocks away (15 Nov 2009)

sunrock said:


> Maybe its the fresh damp air the food is consumed with..definetly helps the appetite and taste buds.


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## Purple (15 Nov 2009)

LouisCribben said:


> In my experience, I totally disagree that the quality of food in England is worse than here. I would say it's very similar. In the supermarkets, it's pretty much identical, and in the restaurants, England has a mix of everything from average to 3 michelin star.



I was not talking about high-end dining. My experience of that in England is very limited. I have eaten pub-grub style food in many places in England over the years and in my experience it's much cheaper but not as good as the same sort of thing in Ireland.


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## Purple (15 Nov 2009)

umop3p!sdn said:


> I've never has a problem with the quality of the food in the UK. ( Indeed, I'd make the trip over just to get a proper curry
> Many places in the UK also do all you can eat buffet food, for very reasonable price. When I was there last, there was a fair crowd in them in the middle of the day.
> 
> I can't stand carvery stuff. I've tried Toby a la carte, and it was reasonable enough.
> ...



I agree in the curry and I agree about carvery food in general. 
Tokyo is the place to go for Michelin stars.


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## Bluebells (16 Nov 2009)

LouisCribben said:


> You listed a host of ingredients which are all readily available in the UK.
> You don't have to go to Ireland to get "Bacon, sausages, eggs, bread, icecream, chocolate, tea, ham, all meats, potatoes, all vegetables".
> You can get all of these things in the UK in abundance in any supermarket.



 While you'll find all of the above, in abundance, all over the world,  few will be a patch on what you'll get here.


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## Papercut (16 Nov 2009)

My only experience of eating carvery pub grub has been in greater London, Manchester, Sheffield & Edinburgh but I can honestly say that taste & quality wise, in general there is no comparison between there & ROI. By that I mean Irish pub carvery food runs rings around our British counterparts. 

  At a push I would say that in my experience carvery ‘roasts’ such as beef & lamb have been utterly tasteless & leathery compared to ROI. As for the veg over there I won’t start to comment. That’s not to say you don’t get similar in some pubs here, but on the whole if I were to compare I’d give our more expensive pub grub the thumbs up.

  Quite a lot of the UK pubs are owned by the same breweries, & would benefit from cheaper rates from suppliers, which would allow them to sell at cheaper rates given the cheaper margins.

  Frozen, pre-cooked, pre-packed, re-heated, microwaved food can be cheaper, but can also be of a lesser quality & taste. Even if it's 'recently roasted' the joint can be rather tough & tasteless. Having said all that I suppose in a pub atmosphere cheaper drink can help wash down any old mush! Then again depending on what 'house' you're in you may not even get the choice of your favourite tipple with which to do so, whereas over here, as a general rule, you can


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## callybags (16 Nov 2009)

I have worked for Wetherspoons in the early ninties and was amazed at how cheap they bought their food.

I can't remember specific prices, but they bought off one supplier and most of the food was pre-prepared and frozen.

They had huge bargaining power with the supplier and could therefore offer meals in the pubs at what seemed to be ridiculously low prices but still make a margin of profit.


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## Caveat (16 Nov 2009)

As has been mentioned, the brewery system in England can account for a lot of low cost purchases.  In general, we simply don't have the system here.  Wetherspoons, Grand Met etc have _huge_ purchasing power and influence as they contract food supplies for 1000s of their pubs. 

Here, it would almost be like comparing supply costs for a corner shop to those of a Tesco or Dunnes.


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## csirl (16 Nov 2009)

Go to UK very often. Quality of food in most pubs is superior than in Ireland. You also get more choice - not just the bland roast carvery that you get here.


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## LouisCribben (18 Nov 2009)

csirl said:


> Go to UK very often. Quality of food in most pubs is superior than in Ireland. You also get more choice - not just the bland roast carvery that you get here.


 
This is interesting. Some people think Irish Pub food is Vastly superior to UK pub food, some people think the complete opposite.
It's an argument that could only be settled with a scientific study.

One thing I know for sure, is that for value for money, the UK pub food wins hands down. Like in Weatherspoons, you can get a big Sunday roast with a free pint of Ale for about £6, or 2 meals for a fiver, or a big breakfast for less than £3, or a coffee and a Muffin for less than £2.
When my brother visited me in UK recently, he was amazed about how cheap pub food was compared to Ireland.


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## galleyslave (24 Nov 2009)

LouisCribben said:


> Like in Weatherspoons, you can get a big Sunday roast with a free pint of Ale for about £6, or 2 meals for a fiver, or a big breakfast for less than £3, or a coffee and a Muffin for less than £2.


the food is frozen, then microwaved on demand. Thats pretty much all the 'chef' does. And from the amount of grease in the sinks, I can tell you it ain't healthy!
so, cheap yes, healthy and nutritious - no


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## Mpsox (24 Nov 2009)

I lived in England for 10 years and ate my dinners in plenty of pubs, especially if there was a match on the telly. Have to say, on average, the quality of the food was better in Ireland then over there. There are of course exception to that but having pulled pints in both countries, Irish pubs tend to buy better quality local produce and cook it better as well.

I do find ethnic food better in the UK, I've never eaten a decent Indian meal in Ireland for example, any local curry house in London would beat the so called best Indian restuarants in Ireland hands down any day.

As for costs, to put it simply, it's more expensive to run a business in IReland then in the UK


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## Bronte (24 Nov 2009)

LouisCribben said:


> One thing I know for sure, is that for value for money, the UK pub food wins hands down. Like in Weatherspoons, you can get a big Sunday roast with a free pint of Ale for about £6, or 2 meals for a fiver, or a big breakfast for less than £3.


 
Even for a group with the buying power of Weatherspoons the price of the meals should tell you that it can't be good.  I like value for money but I also like good food and I'm willing to pay for it or if I can't afford it out then I'll make it at home.  

Any pub grub I ate in England was absolutely dire, the obesity rates in the UK are shocking, they are deservedly not known for their good food (please don't quote back a couple of the famously good restaurants) in fact they'd be bottom of the pile in relation to most of Europe.  I once asked for minced burger rare and was informed that it was the law (not that I believe it is true) that it had to be cooked well done, what does that tell you.   This is after all the nation who invented turkey twizzlers and sunny delight.


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## SparkRite (24 Nov 2009)

Bronte said:


> I once asked for minced burger rare and was informed that it was the law (not that I believe it is true) that it had to be cooked well done, what does that tell you.


 
Well it tells me that you are taking a big chance eating a rare burger.

[broken link removed]
One of many warnings.

I love a big fat juicy steak "cooked" blue to rare but there is a massive difference cooking steak as opposed to minced beef.


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## LouisCribben (24 Nov 2009)

Bronte said:


> Even for a group with the buying power of Weatherspoons the price of the meals should tell you that it can't be good. I like value for money but I also like good food and I'm willing to pay for it or if I can't afford it out then I'll make it at home.
> 
> Any pub grub I ate in England was absolutely dire, the obesity rates in the UK are shocking, they are deservedly not known for their good food (please don't quote back a couple of the famously good restaurants) in fact they'd be bottom of the pile in relation to most of Europe. I once asked for minced burger rare and was informed that it was the law (not that I believe it is true) that it had to be cooked well done, what does that tell you. This is after all the nation who invented turkey twizzlers and sunny delight.


 
When you say that England has not a good reputation for food, I guess there are stereotypes which prevail, and I think it's entirely unfair.

In England, the quality and variety of produce in Supermarkets is more or less identical to Ireland. People have access to whatever food they want, and it can be cooked using whatever techniques and receipes they choose. Also there are plenty of highly trained chefs (same as in Ireland).

It's all very well saying that "they are deservedly not known for their good food", but that's quite a sweeping statement, and how would you prove such a thing. 
I've lived mostly in UK for a few years now, and I see no difference between Irish food and UK food. In the UK I can eat whatever food I want, whenever I want, same as in Ireland, same as in any developed country really.


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## Complainer (24 Nov 2009)

I wouldn't make too many assumptions about the sources of food in Irish or UK pubs. The chickens are more likely to have come from Thailand than Athy.

I noticed in the UK recently that one of these chain pubs had a thriving breakfast trade of older people and young mums at about £2.50 or £3 a head. I doubt if they are making a pile of money out of this, but I'm sure it gives them some contribution towards their overheads.


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## Bronte (25 Nov 2009)

SparkRite said:


> Well it tells me that you are taking a big chance eating a rare burger.
> 
> [broken link removed]
> One of many warnings.
> ...


 
Well some people eat totally uncooked minced beef with a raw egg on top !  And they're not ill or dead.  There's also carpaccio which is raw beef and raw ham in Italy and Spain.  Suish is uncooked.

I have a strong constitution and I've tasted raw Irish sausages and raw rashers too.


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## Delboy (25 Nov 2009)

any time i've been on a stag in the Uk, get a good feed for 2 for 1 for £5/6 in the likes of Yeates etc...bangers and mash, burger and chips etc. bog standard foord but fills the gap and your not looking for top notch grub when your going to be drinking gallons of beer!!!
I cannot figure out how it's so much cheaper then ireland either

But I see Diceys on harcourt St now has a carvery for 6.50 i think. And some of Coppers dishes are under a tenner and you have to tell them to stop putting food on the plate!


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## PyritePete (25 Nov 2009)

Carvery in the Bleeding Horse cost 7.95. Travelled to UK a lot over last 10 years for holidays and work. Found that Irish grub is better although UK is improving.


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## mainasia (7 Dec 2009)

Purple said:


> The quality of food in England is, in my experience, far lower than here. Add lower rent, lower insurance, lower taxes and (the big one) much lower wages, and you have the answer.



I have to echo this. Most pubs in UK are chains selling processed and frozen food. I ordered a 'tuna steak' expecting a pan-grilled seared tuna type meal. Instead I got a bread battered blackened dry lump served with chips and frozen peas. 
There is not much variety and the food is not so fresh in these chain pubs. You need to compare like with like. 
The food in Irish pubs is a real step above the UK as is food in Ireland in general, simply because we haven't gone down the chain and franchise route like most other English speaking countries...UK/US/Australia. 
I really notice this as I am a long term expat that visits UK on business and returns home usually at the same time. Massive difference.......


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## UFC (7 Dec 2009)

Thought I'd add my 2 cents.

I was recently in Westport and was shocked at how expensive the restaurants were. They were all at Dublin pre-recession fancy restaurant prices. To give a bit of context, in an average Italian restaurant (i.e. nothing special) a side order of garlic bread is €8. This is probably twice as much as you'd pay in Dublin.

It put me off the place really.


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## galleyslave (7 Dec 2009)

UFC, Killarney is the same - it's hard to find somethere reasonably priced. I suspect good old Ireland is ripping off tourists yet again .


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## UFC (7 Dec 2009)

galleyslave said:


> UFC, Killarney is the same - it's hard to find somethere reasonably priced. I suspect good old Ireland is ripping off tourists yet again .


 
Yeah I couldn't help but think the restaurants had got together and decided to keep their prices high. Every one of them was really expensive!


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## Protocol (8 Dec 2009)

There does seem to be more choice and competition in Dublin.


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## soy (11 Dec 2009)

Anyone trying to make money selling a carvery dinner for £3.50 is going to have to go down the route of heavily industrialised foods. 
This might be cheaper, but is not (IMHO) in the same league when it comes to quality and taste. I would recommend watching the DVD of the movie Food inc. [broken link removed] for anyone interested in learning about industrialised food and where its heading.

I do think Irish restaurant prices are high, but they are coming down and there is good value to be had if you shop around.


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## bullworth (12 Dec 2009)

soy said:


> Anyone trying to make money selling a carvery dinner for £3.50 is going to have to go down the route of heavily industrialised foods.



The possibility still remains open of pubs in Ireland selling  poor food but with a big mark up. At least poor food in the UK is cheap.


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## Sherman (12 Dec 2009)

While your average British pub is I agree pretty poor, the gastro pub movement in the UK is something that (in my experience in Dublin at least) has simply not in any way been mirrored here. I've had many really very good meals in gastro pubs in the UK over the last few years, along with fantastic, interesting beers, whereas my experience of the couple of so-called 'gastro pubs' in Dublin is one of bad service and at best bland, tasteless food and the usual mega brews.


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## MandaC (13 Dec 2009)

I once ordered something from one of those Weatherspoon places in Scotland.  It was inedible.......though I did once order a cheese and ham toasted sandwich in a pub in the west of ireland.  When I got it, the bread had green mould on it.  Bar man just scraped it off and went, its grand now.  Funniest thing ever.


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## shammy feen (14 Jan 2010)

Just back from lunch there...

I had 5 courses

Pumpkin Soup with Garlic Bread
Cesar salad (starter)
Roast duck breast in apple sauce with sweet potato and eggplant (main)
Creme Brule
Americano coffee

Its was delicious top quality nosh....and all for the cost of 44 RMB or 4.43 euro

Its hard to beat living in China for value.


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## galwegian44 (14 Jan 2010)

Couldn't agree with that generalisation Purple. I've worked in England every second or third week for the past  4 years and I've eaten in a lot of pubs, restaurants etc. I've had some fabulous food over there and some food that was practically inedible (one of these meals was a £5 meal which included a pint in a pub in Bournemouth).

Similar to Ireland you get what you pay for in most cases although I have had some of the £5 pub meals which were acceptable (best one was the evening United beat Chelsea in the CL Final in a pub in Yeovil but that may not have had anything to do with the food!!).



Purple said:


> The quality of food in England is, in my experience, far lower than here. Add lower rent, lower insurance, lower taxes and (the big one) much lower wages, and you have the answer.


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## ali (14 Jan 2010)

MandaC said:


> I once ordered something from one of those Weatherspoon places in Scotland. It was inedible.......though I did once order a cheese and ham toasted sandwich in a pub in the west of ireland. When I got it, the bread had green mould on it. Bar man just scraped it off and went, its grand now. Funniest thing ever.


 
That's so funny and reminds me of something that happened to me years ago. I was in a pub in Craughwell, Galway and asked the bar man for a baileys. He poured it and handed it over. I asked him if I could have it with crushed ice. He eyeballed me, took his cloth hanky out of his pocket, wrapped a couple of ice cubes in it and banged them on the bar. He opened it up then and dropped the bits (probably coated with snot) into my drink and said with a smile "Jaysus i'd never be up to you Dublin types".
I drank it, it was lovely.

A.


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## Firefly (14 Jan 2010)

shammy feen said:


> Just back from lunch there...
> 
> I had 5 courses
> 
> ...


 
It's a long commute though


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## macam (14 Jan 2010)

Protocol said:


> As I browsed the web tonight, I found Mitchells & Butlers, a UK quoted pub chain.
> 
> http://www.mbplc.com/index.asp
> 
> ...



I would suggest this is more a case of how can we do everything so expensively.


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## Chocks away (14 Jan 2010)

Firefly said:


> It's a long commute though


And the home delivery service can be problematic. What with changing terminals at London HTR an' everything.


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## Lak (15 Jan 2010)

UFC said:


> Thought I'd add my 2 cents.
> 
> I was recently in Westport and was shocked at how expensive the restaurants were. They were all at Dublin pre-recession fancy restaurant prices. To give a bit of context, in an average Italian restaurant (i.e. nothing special) a side order of garlic bread is €8. This is probably twice as much as you'd pay in Dublin.
> 
> It put me off the place really.


 
Westport is massively expensive and other than one or two places very poor... We had the most disgusting meal ever in a pub deemed one of the best there it was awfull, Fish pie supposedly with a variety of freshly caught Atlantic produce, .....it was full of strips of processed pink crab sticks, the type you can buy in tesco for about ten cent.
Castlebar down the road has but one or two also, I would rather stay home and eat beans on toast than fork out the best part of a hundred euro to eat the muck dished out in some places.
I visit the UK often and if you know where to go the food is far superior to Ireland unless you live in Dublin.
Example : The Shepherd pub adult meals £3.50. Carvery meal, delicious and you pile your plate as high as you like, my kids love it there.
I wouldnt eat in a Witherspoons if they gave away a free pint with every meal.


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## Lak (15 Jan 2010)

Oh yeah.... and the pub landlady in Westport incredulously tried to tell us that that is what fresh crab looks like !!!!!

I was gobsmacked.
And NO I didnt pay for it.


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## Scouser (15 Jan 2010)

Purple said:


> I was not talking about high-end dining. My experience of that in England is very limited. I have eaten pub-grub style food in many places in England over the years and in my experience it's much cheaper but not as good as the same sort of thing in Ireland.


 
Completely agree with this.


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## Caveat (15 Jan 2010)

legs-akimbo said:


> Oh yeah.... and the pub landlady in Westport incredulously tried to tell us that that is what fresh crab looks like !!!!!


 
Cheeky wagon! 

God that kind of brazenness really annoys me.  They deserve to go out of business.


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## sunrock (15 Jan 2010)

Where is The Sheperd Pub?


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## Lak (15 Jan 2010)

If you know Nottingham its over the lady Bay Bridge on the river Trent and onwards through West Bridgford and on the bend as you turn right towars Cotgrave.


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## Lak (15 Jan 2010)

Has anyone ever tried one of the UK  eat all you like Chinese outlets, again incredible value, for £5. self service restaurants where the menu is as long as your arm, every conceivable meal that you could find in your local eatery,several variety of soups and loads of starters great fun to try all the many many offerings, fresh fruits, chocolate fountains, ice creams and deserts.
Brilliant for the family when being dragged around the city centre by the wife on a shopping frenzy.


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## Lak (15 Jan 2010)

Sunrock  :   http://www.wheresbest.co.uk/venue/94467/Shepherds/#comments:


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## Lak (15 Jan 2010)

Also if any of you are visiting Nottingham or Birmingham.

The Big Wok
lunchtime buffet menu a fiver and three quid for the kids

http://www.dooyoo.co.uk/restaurants-cafes-national/big-wok-nottingham/1055735/


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## bullworth (16 Jan 2010)

legs-akimbo said:


> Has anyone ever tried one of the UK  eat all you like Chinese outlets, again incredible value, for £5. self service restaurants where the menu is as long as your arm, every conceivable meal that you could find in your local eatery,several variety of soups and loads of starters great fun to try all the many many offerings, fresh fruits, chocolate fountains, ice creams and deserts.
> Brilliant for the family when being dragged around the city centre by the wife on a shopping frenzy.



Theres a few similar places like that in Dublin already, Chinese food which is all you can eat at the Epicurean Foodhall, Baggot Street next to Burgerking and  on the top floor of the Stephens Green Shopping Centre. I tried one of the above and while I'm a big guy I got full really fast. I cant remember seeing anything as healthy as fresh fruit or even ice cream on the menu though. It felt really unhealthy but wasnt too expensive.


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