# Good article : "Are you due a Covid-19 refund?"



## Brendan Burgess (11 Apr 2020)

Good article by Conor Pope









						Are you due a Covid-19 refund on health insurance, school fees, travel card or gym?
					

Consumers may be due money back for services they are still paying for but can’t access




					www.irishtimes.com
				




It's subscribers only. 

In summary

Health insurance: Probably no refunds, but premiums should reduce due to lower claims 

School fees:  The schools are educating remotely, so probably not. They are still looking at it.

Car insurance: _The motor insurance industry appears unmoved by the situation, and does not appear to be taking any steps to pass any savings it will make in the weeks ahead back to consumers.

_Commuter tickets:   Irish Rail is looking at it.  Hold onto your tickets. 

Gyms: Ben Dunne, David Lloyd and Westwood have all confirmed that membership fees have been suspended until they can reopen.

Brendan


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## random2011 (13 Apr 2020)

Sky will allow you freeze your Sports package. This amounts to close to 40 euros a month savings. Hard to know when Sport will re-convene so no point in paying subscriptions.


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## fistophobia (13 Apr 2020)

What about refunds on motor taxation?
I am not allowed to go beyond 2 KM, so I walk and cycle.
I am going to ask for a refund, for the months of the lockdown.


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## rob oyle (13 Apr 2020)

fistophobia said:


> What about refunds on motor taxation?
> I am not allowed to go beyond 2 KM, so I walk and cycle.
> I am going to ask for a refund, for the months of the lockdown.


+1. Politicians saying bank fees should be postponed (even though bank services have continued) while the collection of car tax continues...


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## MrEarl (13 Apr 2020)

Brendan Burgess said:


> In summary
> 
> Health insurance: Probably no refunds, but premiums should reduce due to lower claims
> 
> Car insurance: _The motor insurance industry appears unmoved by the situation, and does not appear to be taking any steps to pass any savings it will make in the weeks ahead back to consumers._



Both of those seem very wrong, to me :

We pay health insurance premiums in advance, for certain types of cover that can no longer be provided

We pay car insurance cover in advance, subject to certain expectations about how much time we will spend in our cars, how much distance we will travel, how many other motorists will be on the road at the same time as us etc. 

The point made about motor tax, is also valid.


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## misemoi (14 Apr 2020)

[broken link removed]

You could not use your car and declare it off the road I guess.  A simple way of dealing with this would be to amend the rules slightly so the minimum is less than the current 3 months/full calendar months does not apply.  In practice i would imagine though, most cars are being used very little, but still being used.  Ours for example is used only for big shops, but still in use.  Also as the tax is used to part fund the repair of the road network, I would say that the gvt could argue that this work will still need to be done.  A couple of months of light useage will not make a dent in the required works.


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## Bronte (14 Apr 2020)

Here's a better article about travel not behind a paywall.  









						The Independent’s Simon Calder answers your coronavirus travel questions
					

The Independent’s travel correspondent Simon Calder responds to readers’ Covid-19 concerns




					www.independent.co.uk
				




I heard Calder on BBC yesterday, he's often on.  He's really good but  I disagree with his advice on package holidays. (Atol protected) We have with another family a deposit of about 1K on a trip to America and we will not pay the balance unless we know it goes ahead.  We are prepared to lose the €500 in our case. For our other trip in June we have 1.5K in flights and a €500 deposit with balance due this month.  We will forgo the €500 and hope that if the airline cancels we get the money back. If allowed to travel we will go ahead. Going to the future we will move to more package based holidays as we now do for anything very expensive or long haul or odd countries.  Europe is a different matter.  We always based our Irish trips on not worrying if the flights didn't go as we just stay home or if in Ireland wait an extra day or too or take the boat which has never happened.


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## EmmDee (14 Apr 2020)

MrEarl said:


> We pay health insurance premiums in advance, for certain types of cover that can no longer be provided



From personal experience - cover is still being provided and services are still operating.


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## Coolaboy (14 Apr 2020)

I read at the weekend some car insurance companies are offering 10% off car renewal policys for Frontline staff. Any idea which companies are doing this? james.


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## NoRegretsCoyote (14 Apr 2020)

Motor Tax is just a tax.

It's not a fee for use of the road network.


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## Pugmister (14 Apr 2020)

My father has a taxi and i rang his insurance company onhis behalf to see if we could have his cover downgraded to personal use only until restrictions are lifted. This resulted ina significant monthly reduction.

Axa were very accomodating, the person went off and checked with a supervisor and called us back within 30 mins confirming the change was effective immediately and direct debit amount had been amended. This may be of interest to people with similar type commercial policies


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## Jazz01 (14 Apr 2020)

Pugmister - that is great news for them. Some bit of relief as I can imagine that the income is close non existent for taxi drivers. 

I hope that the change in the insurance, would be recorded as a "break in their record" when he changes it back to commercial use again. Have you got anything in writing / discussed such over the phone with the rep, to indicate that it won't affect a renewal in the future?


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## Pugmister (14 Apr 2020)

Jazz01 said:


> Pugmister - that is great news for them. Some bit of relief as I can imagine that the income is close non existent for taxi drivers.
> 
> I hope that the change in the insurance, would be recorded as a "break in their record" when he changes it back to commercial use again. Have you got anything in writing / discussed such over the phone with the rep, to indicate that it won't affect a renewal in the future?



Yes, income is non existent....thankfully he is not reliant on it and does it to keep himself active more than anything.

Yes all has been confirmed in writing and confirmed as a break with no future implications. They were very willing to work with us so i would advise anyone in a similar position to at least approach their providers.


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## Leo (14 Apr 2020)

NoRegretsCoyote said:


> Motor Tax is just a tax.
> 
> It's not a fee for use of the road network.



Yep, much of it goes to pays for social housing and water.


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## MrEarl (14 Apr 2020)

Leo said:


> Yep, much of it goes to pays for social housing and water.



Really? 

... In what country?


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## MrEarl (14 Apr 2020)

Hello, 

Interesting to note that most of the big US motor insurance companies are now in the process of giving rebates, on private motor insurance premiums









						Car insurers are giving billions back to drivers. It may not be enough
					

Car insurers are giving billions back to drivers. But the industry is saving even more during the pandemic, even after subtracting the payments being made to policyholders.




					edition.cnn.com


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## Leo (15 Apr 2020)

MrEarl said:


> Really?
> 
> ... In what country?



I had posted on that a few years ago, I had to dig it up again and checking on the details, I see I missed the 2018 change that diverted all motor tax receipts to central Government. Up to that point, motor tax was paid to the Local Government Fund, and that fund paid for all local road maintenance (non-NRA works), social housing, water, etc., with more spent on housing and water than roads.

With the 2018 change, roads maintenance continues to be funded by the Local Government Fund, but none of your motor tax gets paid into that fund.


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## peteb (15 Apr 2020)

Pugmister said:


> Yes, income is non existent....thankfully he is not reliant on it and does it to keep himself active more than anything.
> 
> Yes all has been confirmed in writing and confirmed as a break with no future implications. They were very willing to work with us so i would advise anyone in a similar position to at least approach their providers.


Dont forget to inform the NTA of the suspension of his SSPV cover.


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## johnwilliams (17 Apr 2020)

misemoi says" Also as the tax is used to part fund the repair of the road network, I would say that the gvt could argue that this work will still need to be done. A couple of months of light useage will not make a dent in the required works"
think it now going to be diverted to repair the heavy usage  of footpaths


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## MrEarl (18 Apr 2020)

johnwilliams said:


> think it now going to be diverted to repair the heavy usage  of footpaths



How about the cycle lanes, signage, traffic lights etc that the cyclists are using?

... Its long past time that the cyclists paid something towards the services that they use.


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## elcato (18 Apr 2020)

MrEarl said:


> How about the *cycle lanes, signage, traffic lights etc* that the cyclists are using?
> 
> ... Its long past time that the cyclists paid something towards the services that they use.


... or are not using as is a lot of the time


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## Fella (18 Apr 2020)

MrEarl said:


> How about the cycle lanes, signage, traffic lights etc that the cyclists are using?
> 
> ... Its long past time that the cyclists paid something towards the services that they use.



I think most cyclists also own cars, so would be contributing that way. I think we need to encourage people to cycle, its healthy and if more people cycle it's a good thing all round. The petty arguments cyclists v motorists are pointless IMO, get as many people cycling, running , walking as possible as it is good for mental and physical health and hopefully we see the benefits as a country on the health system. One of the positives of this covid19 is I see lots more people out exercising.


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## MrEarl (18 Apr 2020)

Fella said:


> I think most cyclists also own cars, so would be contributing that way. I think we need to encourage people to cycle, its healthy and if more people cycle it's a good thing all round. The petty arguments cyclists v motorists are pointless IMO, get as many people cycling, running , walking as possible as it is good for mental and physical health and hopefully we see the benefits as a country on the health system. One of the positives of this covid19 is I see lots more people out exercising.



Forget arguments about motorists -v- cyclists, making assumptions about who owns a car and a bike etc.

It's very simple, if the public want infrastructure, then it has to be paid for.  One group should not be carrying the cost for another, all groups should contribute. What happens as less revenue comes in from vat and excise on fuel, motor vehicles, etc. which is a very likely outcome of this current crisis that we find ourselves in?

I do agree with you about the benefits of getting more people out cycling, walking etc btw. But if they want facilities that need to be paid for, then the money has to come from somewhere.

Sorry, I know we're taking this thread further off topic btw. Mea culpa


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## Fella (18 Apr 2020)

MrEarl said:


> Forget arguments about motorists -v- cyclists, making assumptions about who owns a car and a bike etc.
> 
> It's very simple, if the public want infrastructure, then it has to be paid for.  One group should not be carrying the cost for another, all groups should contribute. What happens as less revenue comes in from vat and excise on fuel, motor vehicles, etc. which is a very likely outcome of this current crisis that we find ourselves in?
> 
> ...



I cycle to work from a two car household, there are many things that are unfair. I would not pay more to cycle if they brought in a fee I would just take my car. I do very little driving as does my wife but we pay high road tax , I'd rather see road tax levied onto fuel prices as more you use the more you pay . 
Everything is not always going to be fair, I think we need to incentivis people to make choices that are better for public health and environment, I've no problem with someone paying no tax on an electric vehicle they use daily compared with my car which is expensive tax but left at home. 
Cycling should he encouraged as it will pay for itself long term if people cycle they will generally he healthier and less of a burden on the state. Cleaner air etc from .


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## Leo (20 Apr 2020)

MrEarl said:


> One group should not be carrying the cost for another, all groups should contribute.



Beyond the general tax-payer, what is that one group that is paying the costs of all others in this scenario?


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## MrEarl (20 Apr 2020)

Leo said:


> Beyond the general tax-payer, what is that one group that is paying the costs of all others in this scenario?



Motorists are paying for resources enjoyed by cyclists, Leo.


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## Leo (20 Apr 2020)

MrEarl said:


> Motorists are paying for resources enjoyed by cyclists, Leo.



And cyclists are somehow exempt from paying tax? Cyclists are paying for resources used by motorists, likewise pedestrians and those who don't also drive. The notion that motor tax or fuel duties directly funds road maintenance is a fallacy.


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## MrEarl (20 Apr 2020)

Leo said:


> And cyclists are somehow exempt from paying tax? Cyclists are paying for resources used by motorists, likewise pedestrians and those who don't also drive. The notion that motor tax or fuel duties directly funds road maintenance is a fallacy.



Hi,

If that's the case, then let's drop motor tax, vrt, fuel tax etc and see other general forms of taxation increased for everyone, instead.

Not all cyclists have motor vehicles, and some may not even be tax payers, yet they use part of the road network and expect it to be maintained, with specific markings and facilities required and that's before we talk about the cost of independent cycle lanes.


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## Leo (20 Apr 2020)

MrEarl said:


> If that's the case, then let's drop motor tax, vrt, fuel tax etc and see other general forms of taxation increased for everyone, instead.



What are the benefits of a narrower taxation base? Why specifically motor tax or the others listed?  It's not like they play any special role in the road maintenance budget? Significantly more of it goes to funding Irish Water than roads infrastructure, same again for social housing! 

I don't have children, but I'm not upset that some of my motor tax goes to pay towards the building and maintenance of schools. I don't use libraries, but again, I've no issue that some of my motor tax pays for those too.



MrEarl said:


> Not all cyclists have motor vehicles, and some may not even be tax payers, yet they use part of the road network and expect it to be maintained, with specific markings and facilities required



So your argument is public infrastructure funding should be prioritised for those that pay most tax? Many drivers are net recipients of state supports, should they be banned from driving until they can pay their way?


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## Páid (21 Apr 2020)

MrEarl said:


> Motorists are paying for resources enjoyed by cyclists, Leo.


It's Motor Tax not Road Tax and you're not giving them a lift.


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## roker (22 Apr 2020)

MrEarl said:


> Forget arguments about motorists -v- cyclists, making assumptions about who owns a car and a bike etc.
> 
> It's very simple, if the public want infrastructure, then it has to be paid for.  One group should not be carrying the cost for another, all groups should contribute. What happens as less revenue comes in from vat and excise on fuel, motor vehicles, etc. which is a very likely outcome of this current crisis that we find ourselves in?
> 
> ...


Can I have a refund if I have a car and no bike?


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## Purple (24 Apr 2020)

MrEarl said:


> It's very simple, if the public want infrastructure, then it has to be paid for. One group should not be carrying the cost for another, all groups should contribute. What happens as less revenue comes in from vat and excise on fuel, motor vehicles, etc. which is a very likely outcome of this current crisis that we find ourselves in?


The group that is paying for everything is the top 10% of earners, not average income earners. Their road tax doesn't  amount to a hill of beans in the scheme of things.  

Should they get their own roads? Middle income households with 2 or 3 kids are massive net recipients from the State (other taxpayers). Should they be banned from using the roads? A single person earning €200,000 a year is paying about €100,000 in taxes and getting very little back for it. If they cycle to work should they have to pay an additional tax while the middle income household pays very little income tax and are net recipients to the tune of tens of thousands in services for them and their kids?

Sorry, but you are talking absolute nonsense.


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