# Anyone risking booking a foreign holiday



## Daddy Ireland

Am I mad to be even thinking about it this year ?   End of Aug early Sep France by air or ferry. 
Anyone take the plunge ?


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## Steven Barrett

Probably not but I haven't completed discounted it yet. Usually go to campsites in France, so besides the pool, there's tons of space for social distancing. May near somewhere near the beach but the Atlantic is VERY cold


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## Gordon Gekko

I’m not. I don’t want to get stuck in an endless cycle of refunds/vouchers if there’s a second wave. Equally I don’t want to have to leave the money on the table if the destination ends up being open but we don’t feel comfortable travelling for whatever reason. So it’s a ‘wait and see’ from me.


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## Odea

I have an apartment reserved for end of September/early October in Spain. Thankfully I did not book the flights.

While I would love to go as this was our second trip to the same apartment block in the same area. We were going for a week to see if we had finally found the location, where we might spend a month or two at a time over the winter.

I am not sure if we want to travel now. I would like to hear back from those people who do make the first trips before I commit.  We have until mid July to cancel or pay the balance outstanding. I expect to cancel. At the moment we are still waiting on Ryanair to refund for flights not taken in April and May and for a French hotel to refund for a stay not taken in May.

I finally got a refund from the ESB for a credit bill when I switched providers months ago. I am getting refunds from Laya and I am seeking a refund from Aviva for car insurance. It's tiring. So I think that we will skip 2020 and review again in 2021.


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## Pinoy adventure

No,I wouldn't take the risk yet.


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## Fidgety

I have to travel long haul for business and will admit to being apprehensive about it. Maybe a successful mission will bolster my confidence but for the moment I’m not going to travel abroad on holiday. There’s still too much uncertainty. It feels like we’re abandoning caution too fast.


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## Saavy99

I'm taking a wait and see approach. Wouldn't.mind chancing Bulgaria in September


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## Daddy Ireland

SBarrett said:


> Probably not but I haven't completed discounted it yet. Usually go to campsites in France, so besides the pool, there's tons of space for social distancing. May near somewhere near the beach but the Atlantic is VERY cold


Campsites is exactly what I had in mind.  Social distancing as you say is easy enough.   It's the flights/airports that bothers me really.


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## Familyman77

Were not this year, postponed ours to next year for Netherlands. Booked into centreparcs,  longford,  though so the kids can have some kid of getaway


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## DeeKie

Have a week in Kerry booked for August. Might do a city break or the Canaries Nov or Dec but it will be booked late.


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## Daddy Ireland

Sunday Times has calculated that an average of 74% of Ryanair seats have been booked on flights Dublin to Alicante, 50% of seats to Lanzarote and 42% of seats to Barcelona for first week of July.  High enough %'s.


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## Saavy99

Daddy Ireland said:


> Sunday Times has calculated that an average of 74% of Ryanair seats have been booked on flights Dublin to Alicante, 50% of seats to Lanzarote and 42% of seats to Barcelona for first week of July.  High enough %'s.



 There's an cold bitter wind blowing here today and yesterday, Spain is looking very tempting in spite of Corona.


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## Daddy Ireland

Saavy99 said:


> There's an cold bitter wind blowing here today and yesterday, Spain is looking very tempting in spite of Corona.


Good forecast here though.  Heard very little rain forecast for next month here.


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## Thirsty

Have ditched my overseas travel plans this year.

May have to write off what I've paid out, still uncertain if I can rebook for 2021 or get refund.

Expect to do touring / hiking holiday in Ireland this year.


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## Sunny

Booked end of October and looking forward to it. Unless or course, there is another large outbreak or something. I can be sensible and use my common sense in a sunny Country as easily as I can here. So I don't see the difference between a hotel or self catering break here or abroad. Not like Ireland is safer than a lot of the tourist Countries.

Also I priced a holiday home in Ireland for a week in September back in April. It was €700 but they wanted payment in full and wouldn't take a deposit so I wasn't willing to risk it. I contacted them last week. The house for the same week is now €1300. Have a look at hotel prices for later in the year. Irish Tourism is going to do what it does best. Charge ridiculous prices while bleating to the Government looking for VAT reductions etc. Airlines will be offering sales to get people flying again. Foreign Tourism will offer deals to get people to visit again. You won't see that from Irish Tourism. Obviously I won't risk my family's health but with all things being equal, a week or two abroad will still offer significantly better value than a holiday here.


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## Leper

In normal circumstances, I'd be packing my stuff for 2 months in Spain now. Although no instance of Covid-19 was recorded in the resort, I'm still not going for the following reasons:-
1. Confined situation in the aircraft, more hand contact with objects at the departure airport, passengers from other countries at the airport of arrival + additional contact with more objects, confined space of shuttle bus and obvious concerns.
2. The resort has holidaymakers from Madrid and Barcelona (both Covid-19 hotspots) = more concern.
3. The resort has holidaymakers from countries which treated Covid-19 with less restrictions than us.
4. Fear of Next Wave of Covid-19 could be a tsunami.

Already most airlines have cancelled flights from the UK to Spain until 15th July and possible that later dates will be cancelled too. (Airlines usually know more than us!).

Perhaps it will be October (at earliest) for us this year.


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## Saavy99

They practically doubled the cost of renting a house for a week and no guarantee of hot weather.  I agree with Sunny, I would take the first plane out of the country before I would pay those exorbitant prices for one week house rental.


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## Pinoy adventure

I was looking yesterday at flights in November this year for 3 people.
They are gone up by €600.
Qatar airway have the same route and date for €700 cheaper but we opted for a travel credit as we couldn't get a cash refund.
I don't think I'll be pay another €600 on top of the couple of thousand I've all ready left with them.


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## joer

My son has a holiday in Spain booked for July 6th. He has free cancellation on the hotel until the end of June. Aer Lingus have not cancelled his flight . As of now people are advised against non essential travel. He only has an option to change the flight but Aer Lingus have not updated their system to see flights for next summer. He would gladly take a voucher but as of now he has not been offered one. It would only suit him to travel then. Hopefully in the next week or two it might become clearer. Has anyone got advice as what is his best option, thanks.


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## joer

My son received an email saying his flight time had been changed from afternoon to the morning and to ring them, Aer Lingus, to discuss. After an hour waiting to be answered he was offered a voucher or refund because it was changed by more than a few hours. He opted for a refund and was told that it would be in his bank account in 4 or 5 working days. All this took only about ten mins. He is very happy about this.


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## Boyd

That's great result (assuming it appears in his account!) but somewhat frustrating to hear as I'm still waiting on any contact from a refund claim submitted 3 months ago.


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## landlord

We have Aer Lingus flights for Malaga 4th to 19th July. Aer Lingus changed the times of both flights which is fine. We are confident enough that the flights will go ahead and happy with all the pandemic risks, so we paid up yesterday for one of the Marriott resorts in Malaga. We are taking a gamble but desperate to get away.


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## Mousehelp

I am booking flights to Canada for August. Their incidence is v low. I’ll only go if DFA lifts advisory against non essential travel - which I think it will to certain low incident countries. The Airline is offering free change of dates or an non expiring voucher  if we cancel up to 2 hours before flight. Have relative is Canada so go over regularly so no problem accepting the voucher of needs be.


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## WaterWater

Sunny said:


> Not like Ireland is safer than a lot of the tourist Countries.



 Not so sure about that.  https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/

I am not sure I want to be sitting in a resort surround by travellers from the U.K.  I would certainly look at places like Croatia, Slovenia where cases are low.


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## Thirsty

Put off all overseas travel plans this year, may or may not get my money back.  Have written it off in my head, so anything I do get will be a bonus. It will all still be there next year.

Work has been more demanding during this pandemic than I could ever have imagined.

So looking forward to getting a few weeks holiday away from the house.

Ireland is a beautiful country, we don't appreciate it half enough.


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## Peanuts20

If you do go overseas and the quarantine regulations are still in place, check with your employer if you can't work from home when you get back, do you need to take the 2 weeks as unpaid leave or annual leave?.

I'm not travelling, big issue for me is that if you were to get it, does your insurance cover you and if there is a 2nd phase in another country, what if they lockdown. ? what would you do then if you can't get home.?

lastly, it's clear one of the main spreaders initially across Europe was people returning from ski trips. I wish people would show a little more cop on, stay at home for one year, going on an overseas holiday os not a necessity


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## Drakon

The advice from NPHET is to avoid foreign travel.
Did I hear that 1 in 4 inbound travellers are C19 positive?
Ireland’s situation is made worse by having a land border with a non-EU country. And that country has a C19 crisis. 
In the medium term it does not help that Ireland never signed up for the Schengen Agreement. It is probably that if EU “bubbles” are formed, they’ll start with Schengen nations. 

Somebody mentioned visiting family in Canada? IIRC Canada has one of the worst records for C19 in homes for the elderly.


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## Drakon

Being stigmatised is another consideration. 

It would be water off a duck’s back for some but  it could be upsetting or embarrassing, especially if their holiday destination was a surge centre, a Leicester in the sun, so to speak.


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## Peanuts

We were lucky in that we had a big trip planned for April which flights, etc; were cancelled so we had no decision to make. We got a refund for car rental and accommodation and a voucher for the flights which was fine for us.  Other family members however have flights booked to Portugal in late July /early August and have paid for flights and expensive accommodation for which they are not going to get refunds for. They are in the difficult position of either losing out on a substantial sum of money or taking their chances and travelling.  I'm not sure what I would do.


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## Leper

I wonder how many of these unpatriotic holidaymakers to the likes of Spain/Portugal/Italy/France will actually self isolate for 2 weeks on their return.

[I'm just imagining a conversation with a member of the gardaí and one such Cork traveller "We observed all the restrictions and behaved amicably, including my son the engineer and my daughter the doctor." "My husband, the solicitor, just had to go into work before the isolation period ended."


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## Drakon

I heard a voxpop from Dublin Airport this morning. Asking travelling Irish tourists how they felt about the warnings.  
There was a girl, sounded like a millennial/snowflake, she said she was worried it’d put her holiday in Portugal on a downer...

When I heard that, I just thought, “omigod, don’t fret, it’ll be amazeballs”.


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## STEINER

I have a trip to the UK next month booked since November, I will wait another while before I cancel, which I almost certainly will do unless advice changes. If there are people heading away to the various holiday destinations it is worrying what they will do when they come home.


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## Delboy

Drakon said:


> I heard a voxpop from Dublin Airport this morning. Asking travelling Irish tourists how they felt about the warnings.
> There was a girl, sounded like a millennial/snowflake, she said she was worried it’d put her holiday in Portugal on a downer...
> 
> When I heard that, I just thought, “omigod, don’t fret, it’ll be amazeballs”.


I herd a voxpop on Radio 1 this morning where a few true blue Dub's were heading to Amsterdam for a 2 or 3 days 'sightseeing'. Said they'd definitely self isolate for 14 days on their return! It didn't seem like work issues were a concern  

Another 2 day tripper to Amsterdam said she was prepared to take the risk of going and on her head be it with regards to the corona virus. She'd accept the consequences of getting it. She didn't reference the impact of her getting it on those who'd have to deal with her after such as nurses and doctors


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## Thirsty

Drakon said:


> There was a girl, sounded like a millennial/snowflake, she said she was worried it’d put her holiday in Portugal on a downer...


Surprised at a minor travelling alone at this time; don't think I would have been happy to see my children travelling alone as teenagers during a global health crisis.


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## Leper

We didn't travel to Spain for our annual 3 months stint from late June to late August due to concerns of Covid-19. Before we bought a place further south we had a pad in Torrevieja (known by some of the Irish community there as Ballymun in the Sun due to many high rise buildings). We're still in touch with people living in Torrevieja. We were informed that since this week hordes or UK and Irish visitors arrived there. There are still some restrictions in Spain e.g. one person per household to visit supermarkets, have a facemask in your possession at all times even outdoors, you must wear facemasks in all indoor shops or even outdoors when 1.5 metre distance cannot be maintained, etc. Spanish police are dishing out fines like confetti. 

I'm hearing the restrictions are being largely ignored by the holidaymakers. Facebook columns are filled with fulltime expat Brits complaining about the uncaring attitude of many holidaymakers. A siege mentality has arisen between the expats and holidaymakers. Expat Brits (such is the nature of the beast) apparently openly challenge holidaymakers flouting the restrictions and many arguments pop up frequently with Panama hatted Brits versus tattooed fellow countrymen. Further south there has been the first case of Covid-19in a town where English speaking tourists + madrilenos (people from Madrid) have been blamed whether they are responsible or not. Some bars have been invaded by holidaymakers refusing to wear facemasks and arguments have arisen between the expats and bar owners. The bar owners are caught between all year round custom from expats and the chance to make something back looking after free spending holidaymakers.

Where is this going? Bottom Line:- It appears Covid-19 is about to become more active in coastal Spain especially in areas that have kept the virus out. The Irish in such resorts are no great heroes either. But, most of them will be back in Ireland within two weeks and I bet very few of them will self isolate here. I'm uneducated on all the causes of re-infection, but I reckon there will be many Leicester situations in Ireland shortly.


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## Saavy99

Leper said:


> We didn't travel to Spain for our annual 3 months stint from late June to late August due to concerns of Covid-19. Before we bought a place further south we had a pad in Torrevieja (known by some of the Irish community there as Ballymun in the Sun due to many high rise buildings). We're still in touch with people living in Torrevieja. We were informed that since this week hordes or UK and Irish visitors arrived there. There are still some restrictions in Spain e.g. one person per household to visit supermarkets, have a facemask in your possession at all times even outdoors, you must wear facemasks in all indoor shops or even outdoors when 1.5 metre distance cannot be maintained, etc. Spanish police are dishing out fines like confetti.
> 
> I'm hearing the restrictions are being largely ignored by the holidaymakers. Facebook columns are filled with fulltime expat Brits complaining about the uncaring attitude of many holidaymakers. A siege mentality has arisen between the expats and holidaymakers. Expat Brits (such is the nature of the beast) apparently openly challenge holidaymakers flouting the restrictions and many arguments pop up frequently with Panama hatted Brits versus tattooed fellow countrymen. Further south there has been the first case of Covid-19in a town where English speaking tourists + madrilenos (people from Madrid) have been blamed whether they are responsible or not. Some bars have been invaded by holidaymakers refusing to wear facemasks and arguments have arisen between the expats and bar owners. The bar owners are caught between all year round custom from expats and the chance to make something back looking after free spending holidaymakers.
> 
> Where is this going? Bottom Line:- It appears Covid-19 is about to become more active in coastal Spain especially in areas that have kept the virus out. The Irish in such resorts are no great heroes either. But, most of them will be back in Ireland within two weeks and I bet very few of them will self isolate here. I'm uneducated on all the causes of re-infection, but I reckon there will be many Leicester situations in Ireland shortly.



That's horrendous, it really is. The selfishness and irresponsibly of these holiday makers is nothing short of dispicable.


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## horse7

Mousehelp said:


> I am booking flights to Canada for August. Their incidence is v low. I’ll only go if DFA lifts advisory against non essential travel - which I think it will to certain low incident countries. The Airline is offering free change of dates or an non expiring voucher  if we cancel up to 2 hours before flight. Have relative is Canada so go over regularly so no problem accepting the voucher of needs be.


I am hoping to go also , but was worried about entry to Canada, have you read this from Canada government. https://www.canada.ca/en/immigratio...ravel-restrictions-exemptions.html#exemptions


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## Coldwarrior

Thirsty said:


> Surprised at a minor travelling alone at this time; don't think I would have been happy to see my children travelling alone as teenagers during a global health crisis.


Off topic but the youngest millennials are now in their twenties so she's unlikely to be a minor ( at least I hope not, it'd be mad for kids to be travelling alone with all that's going on).


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## Thirsty

> ...youngest millennials are now in their twenties...


Yes, but it wouldn't be a girl (or a minor) being interviewed in that case.


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## Thirsty

Oh dear @Drakon what has you upset?


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## Drakon

I’d have put her in her mid to late 20ies. 
So, 24-29. According to the earlier post, Millenials were 23-38 in 2019. 



Thirsty said:


> Yes, but it wouldn't be a girl (or a minor) being interviewed in that case.











						Definition of girl | Dictionary.com
					

Girl definition, a female child, from birth to full growth. See more.




					www.dictionary.com
				



#2
“ a young, immature woman,”


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## Thirsty

So your use of the word 'girl' was intended to be derogatory?


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## Drakon

Thirsty said:


> So your use of the word 'girl' was intended to be derogatory?


No. But... keep trolling... Or don’t.


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## Thirsty

I will accept your response at face value, and that it was ignorance rather than intent.

Referring to an adult human as a child *is *derogatory; now that you are no longer ignorant of that, you can choose not to do it again.

You might like to also note item 2b.





__





						Why is sexism not challenged on askaboutmoney?
					

" wife does some "secretarial" work and manages the accounts"  Where does the OP refer to their partners occupation or salary?  Why would you assume a woman does 'secretarial' work?  You could at least *try* to avoid sexist stereotypes.



					www.askaboutmoney.com


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## Drakon

The mood music is more-and-more against foreign travel. With TH stepping down it’ll be interesting to hear what his successor says. 

The newly appointed Minister of Health is unequivocal. 

Interesting point about green lists. The C19 situation is fluid as ever. Three weeks ago Portugal would have been on it but not now.









						Health officials ‘very concerned’ about foreign travel, says Donnelly
					

Minister warns against international holidays as Covid-19 situation remains volatile




					www.irishtimes.com


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## demoivre

Drakon said:


> The mood music is more-and-more against foreign travel.



Not from all quarters.








						Re-open EU
					






					reopen.europa.eu


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## joer

There are too many mixed messages for people who would like to travel though.


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## Leo

Thirsty said:


> So your use of the word 'girl' was intended to be derogatory?



My wife and her circle of friends are all Generation Xers, they always refer to themselves as girls, nights out with the girls for example. I think they would equate being called women to being called old.


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## Gordon Gekko

Reminds me of when my Dad asks me to sort stuff out for him and I have to call banks or service providers pretending to be him. I try and sound in my late 70s and do well at the start but it’s harder as a conversation develops and you automatically say things in a certain way. I’ve been told I sound “very sprightly” and “with it”


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## Peanuts20

Leo said:


> My wife and her circle of friends are all Generation Xers, they always refer to themselves as girls, nights out with the girls for example. I think they would equate being called women to being called old.



God help us Corkonions if Girl and Boy are seen as being derogitary


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## odyssey06

Once upon a time girl and boy meant unmarried, you could be a bachelor boy of 40...
I think most of the time with males we avoid this linguistic landmine with 'lad' e.g. "the lad done well".


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## Drakon

Peanuts20 said:


> God help us Corkonions if Girl and Boy are seen as being derogitary



Just as well I didn’t use beour or feen 

>> edit to remove the JE joke @ 13:31 <<


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## Thirsty

Leo said:


> My wife and her circle of friends are all Generation Xers, they always refer to themselves as girls, nights out with the girls for example. I think they would equate being called women to being called old.


What one chooses to refer to oneself is not the issue here.

As an aside, try referring to an African American man as 'boy' and see how far you get.

Adult humans are not children; it's not hard to stop doing it.


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## Leo

Thirsty said:


> What one chooses to refer to oneself is not the issue here.



No, this is how they all refer to their friends and colleagues. They consider it normal and don't seek to take offence where none is intended.



Thirsty said:


> As an aside, try referring to an African American man as 'boy' and see how far you get.



An aside? Seriously?


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## Gordon Gekko

Thirsty said:


> As an aside, try referring to an African American man as 'boy' and see how far you get



Wow. Just wow.


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## Drakon

My wife is the same. She meets up with “the girls” (they’re in their 30ies) and occasionally I’ll ask, “any news from the girls?”.
Tomorrow night I’m meeting up with “the boys” (I’m 48) for a few drinks. She asked me, “which one of the boys did the booking?”.

Funnily enough, when I wrote that post (#34) which has caused a stir, I was going to use the word “lady”, but some find that word creepy.
And I’d briefly considered “w*n” but that, though Cork slang, has become derogatory. Maybe I should have used the more polite “one”?

Cant win! And can’t please everybody.
Let the moderators decide


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## Sunny

My wife just said she was planning a meal with the girls. I told her that she was a sexist pig and stormed out of the room. I just can't believe I am married to such a person. 

Think this thread might be gone slightly off topic......


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## Thirsty

It's really pretty simple.

Girls and boys are children.
Women and men are adults.

If age is relevant to the story/incident, reference it.
If age is not relevant to the story/incident, don't reference it.

I was pretty sure that most people understood that the use of 'boy' in particular to African Americans is viewed as a perjorative term; but given the odd response, perhaps I was mistaken.


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## Thirsty

Sunny said:


> My wife just said she was planning a meal with the girls. I told her that she was a sexist pig and stormed out of the room. I just can't believe I am married to such a person.
> 
> Think this thread might be gone slightly off topic......


Of course calling people names and losing your temper is the way to go


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## Leo

Thirsty said:


> I was pretty sure that most people understood that the use of 'boy' in particular to African Americans is viewed as a perjorative term; but given the odd response, perhaps I was mistaken.



My surprise, and perhaps others', was that you would try to conflate such a loaded, hate-filled term with adults referring to themselves as boys or girls. The usage of boys/ girls here to refer to adults is common place, you seem to be the lone voice in taking offence where I and others didn't see any intended.


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## Thirsty

> ..taking offence..


Where did say I had taken personal offence?


> the lone voice


All change starts with one voice.


> The usage of boys/ girls here to refer to adults is common place


That doesn't make it a good thing to do.


> ...adults referring to themselves as boys or girls


On the contrary we are talking about adults referring to others in a diminutive form.


> loaded, hate-filled term


Which was itself once considered "common place".


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## Pinoy adventure

I'm still checking the airline websites daily.international has gone up again by €200.we are checking for November or march/April 2020.
We had domestic flights paid for 6 people overseas which cost us 26,000php.the same flights now can be bought for 17,000php so we might need too take 2 short domestic flights rather than just 1.


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## Saavy99

Pinoy adventure said:


> I'm still checking the airline websites daily.international has gone up again by €200.we are checking for November or march/April 2020.
> We had domestic flights paid for 6 people overseas which cost us 26,000php.the same flights now can be bought for 17,000php so we might need too take 2 short domestic flights rather than just 1.



You post makes no sense


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## Pinoy adventure

Saavy99 said:


> You post makes no sense



The route we booked for April has gone up in price by €200 euro.
We had booked internal domestic flights in the country we had planned on holidays in and they have dropped in price by nearly half.
We have vouchers for the full value that we paid so might need too take 2 domestic flights too use up the full value of the vouchers.


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## Drakon

Delboy said:


> I herd a voxpop on Radio 1 this morning where a few true blue Dub's were heading to Amsterdam for a 2 or 3 days 'sightseeing'. Said they'd definitely self isolate for 14 days on their return! It didn't seem like work issues were a concern



I heard this on playback. I assume RTÉ interview dozens but keep gems like these and the millennial for broadcast. 


Thirsty said:


> All change starts with one voice.



Isn’t that what Ted Kaczynski said?


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## Drakon

Government have moved the decision date to 20 July at the earliest. I look forward to more Dublin Airport voxpops.


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## Thirsty

Drakon said:


> Isn’t that what Ted Kaczynski said?


I call Godwins Rule Version 2.0


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## Nummerkins

2nd holiday cancelled this year because of Covid 19.

We will miss not spending time on a Greek island this year.

Usually do a few different islands each year.So it's going to be odd 2020 holiday wise for us.

We chose Cyprus for May and Chania on Crete for our late one.

Rebooked Cyprus for next May and Rhdoes for Sept 21 ( thought we would have a good chance of the Rhodes one running )


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## Gorteen

I'm in a real quandry. Have flights booked for April and rebooked for early August and now looks like Portugal will not be on the green list. Right now I'm hoping Ryanair will cancel the flights again so I can get my money back with no loss of additional charges to change. I'm not sure if I will get to travel at all this year!  [broken link removed]


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## landlord

Just back from 2 weeks in Marbella Spain. Everything went smoothly, however a few days ago the Spanish government voted that as of last Monday 13th July masks will have to be worn in all public places inside and out!!!! 
Wearing a mask outside in that ferocious heat is unbearable!!!


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## Tintagel

I find that as someone who likes to take at least 4 overseas holidays a year I am struggling. Yes, I have been lucky and appreciate that I can afford to do this. I don't smoke and I am a light drinker. Don't spend money on cars, bling, golf, clothes etc

I am trying to justify to myself that the jobs that I am doing around the house or in the garden are needed. 

I suppose that I can still research places to visit or visit those places that I was booked to visit this year. When on holidays I am sure that I will be able to avoid people and follow the rules. This can be done.

 Airports and planes, buses to resorts are a real worry though.


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## joer

And Prof Luke o Neill says that you will not be insured if you become sick from Covid abroad. If you end up in hospital you will face a bill for approx 20,000 euros and he said that apart from that you will not be welcomed there, as you will have brought the virus there..


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## PaddyBloggit

PatrickSmithUS said:


> I was down at home in Wexford this weekend. The crowds congregating are starting to look scary.



https://www.irishexaminer.com/news/arid-40018391.html


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## Gordon Gekko

I’ve a degree of sympathy for people.

They’re urged not to go abroad and to holiday in Ireland.

Then we’re surprised when places like Wexford, Cork, etc are busy.

There’s very little consistency in the messaging.

And 300 people on a beach isn’t that many if it’s a big beach.


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## DK123

Hi joer.I thought the EHIC insurance would cover you in Spain for Covid for public hospital emergency but not private hospital.


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## Gordon Gekko

DK123 said:


> Hi joer.I thought the EHIC insurance would cover you in Spain for Covid for public hospital emergency but not private hospital.



As I understand it, it’s not really insurance despite what the name suggests; it’s just EU nations looking after EU citizens, no?


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## elcato

joer said:


> And Prof Luke o Neill says that you will not be insured if you become sick from Covid abroad. If you end up in hospital you will face a bill for approx 20,000 euros and he said that apart from that you will not be welcomed there, as you will have brought the virus there..


This is pure and utter scramongering of the highest degree - The DmcWs of the health worlds are alive and well in the hope that they are right on something..


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## Saavy99

Gordon Gekko said:


> As I understand it, it’s not really insurance despite what the name suggests; it’s just EU nations looking after EU citizens, no?



Yes you right.
I used EHIC card few years back when in Spain, they just took the number at the hospital and I had nothing else to pay.


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## Ceist Beag

Gordon Gekko said:


> I’ve a degree of sympathy for people.
> 
> They’re urged not to go abroad and to holiday in Ireland.
> 
> Then we’re surprised when places like Wexford, Cork, etc are busy.
> 
> There’s very little consistency in the messaging.
> 
> And 300 people on a beach isn’t that many if it’s a big beach.


Agreed Gordon. We're told that outdoors the risk is 19 times less than indoors. I do think some of the reporting is inconsistent and misguided. If we're told to holiday and home and if a lot of our activities at home are curtailed then isn't it obvious that those that are open, such as beaches, will be busier as a result.


----------



## Saavy99

joer said:


> apart from that you will not be welcomed there, as you will have brought the virus there..



 Is it not more likely that you have a higher chance of picking up the virus abroad than bringing it there?


----------



## joer

I would like to think that you have a higher chance of picking up the virus abroad than here but I doubt that that is the case. Don,t forget that nobody knows whether they have it or not until they are tested.


----------



## DK123

I feel that  after going to the sun regularly for holidays for many years and always enjoying the sun,the different cultures,the value for money.the different food .different drink,different adventures etc,that to go for a holiday at home would be worse than having no holiday at all and that the powers that be should not be trying to control where people should take their holidays.One should be free to enjoy their favourite holiday and not be enticed into compromising on their holidays because they have worked hard all year and deserve the best holiday they can have.[Just my humble opinion]


----------



## PGF2016

DK123 said:


> I feel that  after going to the sun regularly for holidays for many years and always enjoying the sun,the different cultures,the value for money.the different food .different drink,different adventures etc,that to go for a holiday at home would be worse than having no holiday at all and that the powers that be should not be trying to control where people should take their holidays.One should be free to enjoy their favourite holiday and not be enticed into compromising on their holidays because they have worked hard all year and deserve the best holiday they can have.[Just my humble opinion]


The powers that be are trying to protect their health workers and vulnerable citizens from a global pandemic. My humble opinion is that people should make a small sacrifice and suck it up until the pandemic is under control.


----------



## odyssey06

DK123 said:


> I feel that  after going to the sun regularly for holidays for many years and always enjoying the sun,the different cultures,the value for money.the different food .different drink,different adventures etc,that to go for a holiday at home would be worse than having no holiday at all and that the powers that be should not be trying to control where people should take their holidays.One should be free to enjoy their favourite holiday and not be enticed into compromising on their holidays because they have worked hard all year and deserve the best holiday they can have.[Just my humble opinion]



Remember those ski-ing trips to northern Italy?
Sure those people deserved their holidays, but not at the risk of societal lockdown.
We can't have a free for all when it comes to foreign travel.
And your favourite destination will have changed too, it won't be the same adventure - you will have to navigate social distancing and restrictions.
If you love the sun, yeah Ireland can be a challenging holiday destination & expensive, but otherwise there is lots to do here and see.


----------



## Early Riser

DK123 said:


> One should be free to enjoy their favourite holiday and not be enticed into compromising on their holidays because they have worked hard all year and deserve the best holiday they can have.[Just my humble opinion]



In so far as taking personal risk is concerned, I agree. If someone wants to do a highly adventurous sport or risk personal injury by jumping off mountains, that is their concern. However, this is about public health, not personal risk. I think it is much more important to keep the infection rate in the country as low as possible so that schools can fully re-open, health services operate as normally as possible, and people go about their essential everyday business.


----------



## Early Riser

Anyone tempted by retirement to Greece? - 

_Greece is making a play for pensioners by offering a flat rate of income tax at 7 per cent for retired foreigners who transfer their tax residence...........
....
“We hope that pensioners benefiting from this attractive rate will spend most of their time in Greece,” Ms Kalyva told the Observer. Ultimately, the aim is to expand the country’s tax base, she added. “That would mean investing a bit — renting or buying a home.” ..........

The proposal goes further than other countries, however, with the flat tax rate in Greece to apply to other sources of revenue as well as pensions, according to the draft law.
“The 7 per cent flat rate will apply to whatever income a person might have, be that rents or dividends as well as pensions,” said Alex Patelis, chief economic adviser to Kyriakos Mitsotakis, the prime minister.








						Greece lures pensioners with sun, sea and low tax
					

Greece suffered a calamitous brain drain during its debt crisis, with about 500,000 of its best young hopes leaving in search of work.In an effort to solidify its recovery, the country has hit upon a




					www.thetimes.co.uk
				



_


----------



## arbitron

I was about to start a 6-month sabbatical when all this started. Long-awaited trips to friends and family in USA, Canada, Bali, Australia, New Zealand, Denmark, France, Germany, Israel, South Africa... all cancelled. Looking forward to making up for it over the next few years but I won't be in a rush onto a plane.

My main worry is that I can behave impeccably and take all precautions but I cannot predict or control who will be on the flight with me.

I have a strong suspicion that some of the people who are travelling at the moment are more likely to be risk takers in general and may have been less careful recently. I have no evidence for that but I think it's a reasonable assumption.

Dozens of potentially infected passengers in a small space for 2+ hours and it only takes 1 cough or sneeze in my vicinity.  Being ill abroad can be a nightmare, even in the best of times.

Plenty of beautiful and historic destinations in Ireland.


----------



## Saavy99

In general though people go abroad for the sun, no guarantee of that in Ireland.


----------



## Ravima

Alas, London (May) cancelled; Spain (July);  London (August) cancelled and Spain (Sept) cancelled. I feel that I shouldn't travel and risk bringing back the virus to my family/friends. No relatives coming into Ireland either this year, again to protect themselves and others.


----------



## Peanuts20

Interestingly an article in the Irish Times yesterday stated that if you do travel overseas any travel insurance is invalid, not just for Covid issues, but for any injury, theft, lost luggage etc. 
"They will also have no cover for lost bags, criminal damage or cancelled flights while they are overseas." was what was stated


----------



## Saavy99

The article also clarified the EHIC covers EU citizens for public treatment. I would imagine the cohort going to the 'Ballymuns' resorts of Spain would only ever rely on the EHIC regardless.

"While those in possession of a European Health Insurance Card (EHIC) will be able to access medical care in most public hospitals in Europe, they will have to bear the costs of private treatments or repatriation, which can run to tens of thousands, if it is necessary."


----------



## Saavy99

Ravima said:


> Alas, London (May) cancelled; Spain (July);  London (August) cancelled and Spain (Sept) cancelled. I feel that I shouldn't travel and risk bringing back the virus to my family/friends. No relatives coming into Ireland either this year, again to protect themselves and others.




An alternative without breaking the bank









						Kerry Hotel Offers - Kenmare Bay Hotel & Resort, Ireland
					

Kenmare Hotel room offers for families and couples with midweek and spring/summer breaks available at the Kenmare Bay Hotel & Resort, County Kerry,Ireland




					www.kenmarebayhotel.com


----------



## Saavy99

PatrickSmithUS said:


> And that is exactly where I was.



Did you enjoy it, was there lots to do there?


----------



## PaddyBloggit

Saavy99 said:


> Did you enjoy it, was there lots to do there?





PatrickSmithUS said:


> I was down at home in Wexford this weekend.



I presume he met family etc.


----------



## valery

Conor Popes article in the Irish Times refers to travel insurance being Invalid if you travel abroad.
However, most private health insurance have cover for health emergencies abroad.


----------



## joer

That is true but will insurance cover you if you pick up the Covid in another country and dont forget that if there happens to be a cluster of cases ,places can close down fairly quickly. Just look at the area of the Costa Blanca a few days ago bars , restaurants night clubs etc closed down overnight.


----------



## Gordon Gekko

I think it’s crazy to venture overseas. Things can change quickly and the very acts of passing through an airport and travelling on an aeroplane are more risky. And throw ambiguity around insurance into the mix as well.


----------



## joer

Absolutely.


----------



## DublinHead54

I was due to go on a hiking trip which I have just cancelled due to quarantining for 2 weeks upon return. I fear that in the next month we might see restrictions increased again.

I had planned an Italy trip in June which was cancelled, and due to go to New York in September. I am not just cancelling everything for the foreseeable future. 

I have been spending some time down in Wexford since travel restrictions have been lifted. The beaches are busy, but in general social distancing in shops etc is working well.


----------



## odyssey06

Note that the Department of Foreign Affairs has changed its travel advisory for green list countries to "take normal precautions".

_Despite this however, Insurance Ireland said earlier this week that the green list “does not equate to a relaxation of the non-essential travel policy”. 
This suggested that insurance companies may take the view that, green list or no green list, Irish tourists may not be covered if they travel abroad for non-essential reasons.
Insurance Ireland was correctly pointing to the fact that the overarching government advice was still to avoid non-essential travel. 
In a statement today, Irish travel insurance provider GetCover.ie called for greater clarification and labelled the advice for green list countries as ‘very conflicting’. 
Asked about the insurance issue, Coveney said that insurance companies will make decisions on the basis of the official travel advice and that the advice has changed in relation to the 15 countries. 
The best advice, however, is probably to check with your own insurance provider before making any decisions._









						Explainer: What does the new 'green list' mean for foreign travel?
					

It was a long time coming but there’s still plenty of debate out there.




					www.thejournal.ie


----------



## fidelcastro

I'm going here.








						VisitKarelia - North Karelia for travelers
					

Holiday in the easternmost part of Finland? Magnificent nature attractions, Karelian culture and food traditions.



					www.visitkarelia.fi
				



Bliss, no covid cases. Highly recommended


----------



## Saavy99

fidelcastro said:


> I'm going here.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> VisitKarelia - North Karelia for travelers
> 
> 
> Holiday in the easternmost part of Finland? Magnificent nature attractions, Karelian culture and food traditions.
> 
> 
> 
> www.visitkarelia.fi
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Bliss, no covid cases. Highly recommended



 Looks heavenly,


----------



## almostthere

fidelcastro said:


> I'm going here.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> VisitKarelia - North Karelia for travelers
> 
> 
> Holiday in the easternmost part of Finland? Magnificent nature attractions, Karelian culture and food traditions.
> 
> 
> 
> www.visitkarelia.fi
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Bliss, no covid cases. Highly recommended



Except for the mosquitoes. 









						How to Deal with Mosquitoes in Lapland | Visit Finnish Lapland
					

Mosquitoes in Lapland might be annoying at times, but we've compiled a list of tips to ensure you have a great summer day, mosquitoes or no.




					www.lapland.fi


----------



## elacsaplau

Has "non-essential travel" been defined?


----------



## Peanuts20

elacsaplau said:


> Has "non-essential travel" been defined?



No but surely common sense should kick in. So travelling for medical treatment, perhaps to see a seriously ill or dying family member then yes, travelling for any kind of holiday, definately not. Work is more difficult, there isn't a single reason in this day and age for anyone to travel for meetings for example but the likes of lorry drivers are excluded from the 14 day rule.


----------



## almostthere

I had a look at some of the finer detail of areas with high levels of Covid in Spain.  The map that is provided gives a breakdown of each area where there are cases, numbers etc.

There are many places where there are nil cases of Covid in Spain. 

Also reading some comments from people who are travelling. Many are not having "housekeeping" call in to their room during their stay. They leave their room thrash outside the door. This is taken and an empty bag left. Also clean towels.....these are left in a sealed cloth bag outside your room.

My big problem is airports and flying. I am not so concerned about the destination.


----------



## horse7

Why are countries with a lower level of case infection not on the green list?


----------



## dereko1969

horse7 said:


> Why are countries with a lower level of case infection not on the green list?


Which ones? I thought they were utilising the number of cases per 100,000 people for the past 14 days as the cut-off.


----------



## Boyd

Green List Ireland: All major travel insurers to cover those travelling to green list countries
					

TRAVEL insurers now say they will cover countries on the “green list” in what is a major breakthrough for those who want to holiday abroad.




					m.independent.ie
				




Apparently insurers have changed their tune.


----------



## Saavy99

Boyd said:


> Green List Ireland: All major travel insurers to cover those travelling to green list countries
> 
> 
> TRAVEL insurers now say they will cover countries on the “green list” in what is a major breakthrough for those who want to holiday abroad.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> m.independent.ie
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Apparently insurers have changed their tune.



Fantastic, great news.

Hope they review the list before October and add the Canaries so I can go to escape the dreary Irish winter


----------



## horse7

dereko1969 said:


> Which ones? I thought they were utilising the number of cases per 100,000 people for the past 14 days as the cut-off.


Obviously not.


----------



## horse7

Ireland is at 5 cases per 100,000, Canada is 2 per 100,000


----------



## joe sod

horse7 said:


> Ireland is at 5 cases per 100,000, Canada is 2 per 100,000


But Canada is beside us and they want to stop us travellers from coming. Also because US is our most important market maybe they not want to appear to be singling out the US so better not put Canada on green list. A flight to Europe is a short plane trip, whereas a flight to Canada be at least 7hrs a long time in a high risk environment. We are an EU country so the priority must be to open up to European travel first.


----------



## horse7

I don't think you can compare USA with 13 cases per 100,000 to Canada.


----------



## Saavy99

Spanish lobby Government to add islands to ‘green list’
					

Spanish authorities insist Balearic and Canary Islands are safe locations for travel ‘without 14 day quarantine’




					www.irishtimes.com
				




Looking good


----------



## Leper

I'm watching the whole Covid-19 situation in Spain and other countries including Ireland with interest. To be honest I find it difficult to take that the likes of governments in some countries are withholding much truth and fobbing us with lies. So the Balearic and Canary Islands are relatively free of Covid-19, Andalucía is relatively safe. But Madrid and Barcelona are areas of worry in Spain (both Covid Hotspots). There are millions in each and guess where they flock to on holidays. You've guessed it the Balearics and Canaries and the Costas. My personal opinion:- It's only a matter of a short time before there will be more Covid Hotspots in Spain.

Usually we'd spend 2 months in Spain for the summer. We didn't travel this year because of Covid-19. I've been in touch with my Brit neighbours in Spain. Many expat Brits are in fear of catching Covid-19 from the holidaymakers arriving from the UK and Madrid/Barcelona. There is some animosity between holidaymakers and expats living in the resorts. Several travel forums and facebook are awash with lies regarding holiday resorts too. 

Mrs Lep and I feel much safer in Ireland and I feel many Irish are less than careful by travelling to countries not on the green list. Am I over-reacting? I don't think so.


----------



## Bronte

Leper said:


> There is some animosity between holidaymakers and expats living in the resorts.


Didn't somewhere in Co. Clare warn second home owners their houses would be burnt !  One of my kids is in Spain, due back at the weekend. Seville area.  Went to visit a Spanish friend.  

If I'd a choice between two months in Ireland and two months in Spain I would have gone to Spain. But each to their own.  If this continues much longer I'm considering moving lock stock and barrel to the South of Spain. Or buying something there and living there for as much time as I can.  We were considering that anyway but Covid may spur us on to actually doing it.


----------



## joer

And what are you going to do if  Covid visits all of Spain , will you move back ?


----------



## Bronte

Covid is everywhere including Ireland.  But at least in Spain you have nice weather most of the time.  It's highly unlikely I'll ever live in Ireland again just because of the weather.  And if all the airlines go bust at least I can still go from one country to another.


----------



## joe sod

Leper said:


> There is some animosity between holidaymakers and expats living in the resorts. Several travel forums and facebook are awash with lies regarding holiday resorts too.


But sure aren't most expats in Spain employed servicing other holiday makers from UK and elsewhere, they run many of the bars restaurants etc in the resort's therefore they are taking a direct hit from no holiday makers there. I would imagine they would be more anxious to get Spain opened up to holiday makers rather than the risk of covid. Of course the rich retirees not needing to work might be the ones over represented on those forums.


----------



## Cervelo

Bronte said:


> Covid is everywhere including Ireland.  But at least in Spain you have nice weather most of the time.



Which is great if you're actually allowed go outside, I was in Spain when the lockdown started in March and you weren't allowed step outside your house unless you were going to the supermarket or doctors. If you had a dog and lived in an apartment you could walk it once a day within 50 mts of your property but if you had a house with land you could only open the front door and let the dog out but you had to stay inside.

I left Spain at the beginning of April and caught the ferry home from Cherbourg as there was no point in been there and stuck indoors for what I think ended up been nearly eight weeks before there was a relaxing of the lockdown and I should add that I came home to better weather in Ireland than they had in Spain for all of April and a good part of May


----------



## pablo123

We bought a camper van to travel Ireland ,Complete change from going to Spain 4 to 5 times a year , What a stunning country we live in , Not too bothered about going abroad now .


----------



## joer

Your camper van will come in useful when the restrictions are lifted ......Pablo.


----------



## Leper

I'm watching the rollout of the covid vaccines and hoping I'm to be in the 2nd or 3rd wave to receive it. The second I'm in the clear, I'll be booking a flight to the sun. If the Boeing-Max fails to be started by jump-leads, I'm prepared to push the damn thing to get it motoring. And Pablo is right, Ireland looks beautiful especially from 30,000 feet as we head south toward Spain.


----------



## Bronco Lane

I have spent a relaxing few hours researching a big holiday for early summer 2022. East coast Canada is leading the charge at the moment. Maybe 3 weeks hopping from city to city with occasional side day trips from each base.
Looked also at Japan and New Zealand but the long flights are really off putting.


----------



## Cervelo

I did the #Festive 500 challenge this year for the first time (Ride 500 Km between 24th and 31st of Dec)
It's not a tough challenge per se but factor in sub 5 degrees and a wind chill that lowered it into the sub-zero temps
It turned out to be neither a fun nor a easy challenge, quite the opposite

I didn't travel to Spain this winter due to the escalating covid situation as I thought Spain would go into a lockdown similar to the one in March
It is a decision that I am somewhat regretting at the moment now given that Spain hasn't imposed that many restrictions compared to others
I had planned to spend the winter in Spain and then after Mrs Cervelo wanted to go to the Far east taking in Hong Kong, Beijing and a couple of weeks touring Japan but obviously this was put on hold until things return to normal or the "new normal"

But I've a feeling that even though we are now starting to roll out the vaccinations and the future is starting to look like things will return to normal
we are still a long way from this and given the issues with supply and demand we're probably looking at 2022 before things really look like normal


----------



## Gordon Gekko

Bronco Lane said:


> I have spent a relaxing few hours researching a big holiday for early summer 2022. East coast Canada is leading the charge at the moment. Maybe 3 weeks hopping from city to city with occasional side day trips from each base.
> Looked also at Japan and New Zealand but the long flights are really off putting.



Japan is very manageable and not nearly as long as the flight to NZ.

Perhaps treat yourself to Premium Economy to make things a little easier?


----------



## Bronco Lane

Gordon Gekko said:


> Japan is very manageable and not nearly as long as the flight to NZ.


Any recommendations for two or three different locations to stay for 5 nights in each?  Culture/restaurants/touristy things.


----------



## Gordon Gekko

Bronco Lane said:


> Any recommendations for two or three different locations to stay for 5 nights in each?  Culture/restaurants/touristy things.



5 nights might be a bit much. I’m no expert either; I was just there for the Rugby World Cup. Osaka and Kyoto are well worth visiting. I loved Tokyo. With the bullet trains, you can get around very easily. Hiroshima is worth seeing, it’s very moving, but just for a day.


----------



## johnl68

Bronco Lane said:


> I have spent a relaxing few hours researching a big holiday for early summer 2022. East coast Canada is leading the charge at the moment. Maybe 3 weeks hopping from city to city with occasional side day trips from each base.
> Looked also at Japan and New Zealand but the long flights are really off putting.



If going to Japan I would definitely recommend a personal tour guide. We had one in Tokyo & Kyoto, takes all the hassle out of trying to navigate the cities transport and tourist sites. We had them each for a full day tour, got to see loads. 

Also a big thing in Japan is forwarding your luggage by courier to your next hotel, very efficient, it's waiting for you in the room when you arrive. The train stations can be very crowded, nightmare trying to haul suitcases around.


----------



## Fidgety

You could stay in Osaka and use it as a base to visit Kyoto by train (about 45 minutes) and also Hiroshima by taking the bullet. Wonderful food in Japan in general but Osaka is particularly famous for its street food. If you have the time, take the local train from Hiroshima to visit Miyajima, an island off the coast which is beautiful. The train fare includes the price of the short ferry ride. It’s a day trip and well worth a visit.


----------



## Pinoy adventure

No not for the forseable anyway.
We still have about €5000 in vouchers


----------



## Bronco Lane

[broken link removed] 

An interesting read from the other side of the world.


----------



## EmmDee

Fidgety said:


> You could stay in Osaka and use it as a base to visit Kyoto by train (about 45 minutes) and also Hiroshima by taking the bullet. Wonderful food in Japan in general but Osaka is particularly famous for its street food. If you have the time, take the local train from Hiroshima to visit Miyajima, an island off the coast which is beautiful. The train fare includes the price of the short ferry ride. It’s a day trip and well worth a visit.



Was considering going to Japan for the blossoms prior to Covid - might dust off that plan for 2022.

Was in Osaka for work once - didn't see much of those sites but would definitely go back. Much more relaxed place than Tokyo I found


----------



## Fidgety

EmmDee said:


> Was considering going to Japan for the blossoms prior to Covid - might dust off that plan for 2022



Highly recommended but as it’s highly weather dependent plan early in the cycle so you don’t miss it.


----------



## bish123

We booked a TUI resort in Greece for a week in end June last year. Deposit was paid pre-covid and I paid another 200 in March last year to postpone for this year. TUI expecting us to pay rest of amount in March with assurance of full refund in case government bans travel (either Irish or Greek) for holidays. The problem comes when government doesn't ban holiday travel but we are not comfortable. Or we simply loose deposit (€800) and don't pay rest in March. 

Is anyone else in similar situation? Any suggestions how should I handle it?


----------



## Leper

I think your hands are tied Bish123 unless you can afford to leave your €800 evaporate. I can't reassure you in your discomfort as nobody knows what June will bring. I believe you will not be allowed to travel from Ireland in June and all the recent government announcements point towards this although nothing is written in stone. Worse Case Scenario:- If the Irish and Greek public doesn't continue to get its anti Covid act together, we'll be talking on dilemmas such as yours around this time next year. The amount of vaccinations administered in Ireland and Greece will affect the issue too.


----------



## bish123

Leper said:


> I think your hands are tied Bish123 unless you can afford to leave your €800 evaporate. I can't reassure you in your discomfort as nobody knows what June will bring. I believe you will not be allowed to travel from Ireland in June and all the recent government announcements point towards this although nothing is written in stone. Worse Case Scenario:- If the Irish and Greek public doesn't continue to get its anti Covid act together, we'll be talking on dilemmas such as yours around this time next year. The amount of vaccinations administered in Ireland and Greece will affect the issue too.


Luckily they allowed us to postpone free of charge this time. So we will move it to June 2022. I trust (and hope) majority will be vaccinated by then.


----------



## dereko1969

Bronco Lane said:


> Any recommendations for two or three different locations to stay for 5 nights in each?  Culture/restaurants/touristy things.


We loved Japan when we were there a few years ago, would definitely go back. We went to Miyajima Island, hired e-bikes (very hilly) and cycled around the various galleries and installations, it was amazing.
To mix it up we did a little bit of walking on the Kumano Kodo, a real taste of rural Japan https://www.tb-kumano.jp/en/kumano-kodo/
Stayed in one of the Onsen lodges (hot springs) there which was very interesting.
Food everywhere was amazing and the train passes are great. Worth getting a mobile wi-fi hotspot to bring around.
Tokyocheapo.com is worth checking for tips too.


----------



## Wahaay

I've booked flights to Greece for August from the UK.
I fail to see how the Irish government can prevent people travelling to the Med when most of the countries in Southern Europe will have opened up their tourist season, probably with only negative PCR tests as a minimum.
Unless they intend to police the border with the North.


----------



## Leper

Wahaay said:


> I've booked flights to Greece for August from the UK.
> I fail to see how the Irish government can prevent people travelling to the Med when most of the countries in Southern Europe will have opened up their tourist season, probably with only negative PCR tests as a minimum.
> Unless they intend to police the border with the North.


I hope you're right, I want you to be right, but I think you're wrong.


----------



## bish123

My decision of cancelling holidays in Greece this year is based on my and family safety. Its nothing to do with if or who is keeping an eye on holiday makers.


----------



## Wahaay

bish123 said:


> My decision of cancelling holidays in Greece this year is based on my and family safety. Its nothing to do with if or who is keeping an eye on holiday makers.



That is, of course, entirely understandable.
But concerted efforts are being by the Greek authorities to vaccinate entire island populations in preparation for the summer.Some smaller islands have already been done and the programme is being rolled out to larger islands.
The latest news is that even a PCR test might not be needed with an antigen (rapid) test being sufficient.
Remember it's only the first week in March - the picture will be totally different in four months time.


----------



## Cervelo

Me thinks that this might be a perfect example of where us pessimists just might have the upper hand to our optimistic colleagues
I hope your right Wahaay really hope you are but the pessimist in me says.....


----------



## joe sod

Sure the pessimists have had the upper hand since the start of this pandemic, we have had a year of it now, surely the optimists might get a break now, the vaccination program is the chief driving force now,


----------



## Wahaay

Cervelo said:


> Me thinks that this might be a perfect example of where us pessimists just might have the upper hand to our optimistic colleagues
> I hope your right Wahaay really hope you are but the pessimist in me says.....



My glass is always half-full of ouzo ...


----------



## music

I wonder if anyone could advise. Our British-based family has booked a house in Portugal for a week near the  end of June and wants us to come too. Our Irish family is vaccinated and they in UK are all long vaccinated. For the life of me I can not figure out if people are allowed to fly from Ireland to Portugal. I know about the requirement for prior PCR test etc. I just can't  figure out if the Irish Government will allow a person to travel - on holiday.  Their official sites says Government advisory notice but I am not sure if it is illegal to travel or can you just turn up at Dublin airport and hope to get through.  It seems to be difficult to get solid information. 
The Portugese  on their side are have adopted the view that they will accept  visitors who are fully vaccinated or have a negative PCR test.  It is the Irish departure (and return) that flummoxes me. Michael O' Leary was on the radio this morning, his usual bombastic fashion but he said Irish people are booking like crazy to Spain Portugal  etc from mid-June. Thank you


----------



## joe sod

I've heard the guards are still at the airport questioning people about their reasons for travel, I'm not sure if its still hard line approach like a few months ago. As you point out its difficult to get proper information. I think big pressure to lift this for travel to European countries be very hard for government to sustain it for much longer now. As Michael o Leary rightly pointed out the draconian travel restrictions still failed to keep out the Indian variant, so it's effectiveness is not very good anyway


----------



## joer

As far as I am aware it is still," no unessential travel permitted" . I think that there is to be an announcement later this week.


----------



## lukegriffen

My gf was stopped in a taxi last week on the ramp at the airport by a guard. She told the guard she had to fly home to sort out a carer for her parents. The guard still seemed suspicious & asked her when her return  flight was. When she said she hasn't booked a return the guard waved her on. A dublin friend is going to Spain next week so is planning to fly out from Belfast.  Continental Europe life has returned to almost normality, in Amsterdam there were flights leaving every min. This govt. is a joke, & don't get me started on mandatory hotel quarantine.


----------



## niceoneted

lukegriffen said:


> This govt. is a joke, & don't get me started on mandatory hotel quarantine.


While I agree with this, I also disagree. I think they are dammed if they do and dammed if they don't. If cases starting rising and it stemmed from foreign travel you'd be giving out. I think it is very hard to provide for every one in this pandemic. Its not just all black and white, it's all grey. we cannot legislate for all scenarios.


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## garbanzo

Yes. Booked a long weekend with Mrs G in the south of Spain for the end of September. Figure things will have opened up by then. Think it’s a risk worth taking from this remove. Fingers crossed....


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## Mocame

The new passports I ordered for my children in February arrived in the post this morning.  I am taking this as a sign from the Gods - a sign that we will get to swim in the Med in August as planned!


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## Grizzly

Does anyone know if both the Ryanair refund flight vouchers for cancelled flights and Ryanair gift vouchers, been extended past their use by date by Ryanair?

I would imagine that many people have both and have expired dates on them?


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## Leper

I can't tell the future. I have difficulty predicting the present. But, I've booked all of August in Spain even if the Ryanair plane has to be pushed to get the engines running I'll do it.


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## Grizzly

Leper said:


> But, I've booked all of August in Spain


Do Irish people need to have a PCR test to enter Spain?   On the way back do they have to get another one before entry to Ireland?


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## noproblem

Grizzly said:


> Do Irish people need to have a PCR test to enter Spain?   On the way back do they have to get another one before entry to Ireland?


Not if you're vaccinated, otherwise I don't know.


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## Feemar5

Heard on radio today you need to add the costs of two PCR tests and the possibility of quarantine if things change so  I wouldn’t be comfortable booking yet.


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## Leper

When I booked I ensured I was keeping within guidelines as per senior political figures (e.g. Leo Varadkar). We remained in Ireland for the past sixteen months when others were heading south like the swallows. His language suggested there are increasing problems with variants in the UK, but likely they will be contained. Ryanair has given the option of changing flights at nil cost up to 1st September. If things Covid degress we won't travel - but fingers crossed and perhaps for the first time in fifteen months my glass is half full.


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## joer

There is so much uncertainty at present that I will wait until next year at least......as much as I would like to travel abroad. So staycation it will have to be for this year.


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## Black Sheep

Like Leper I've booked for Spain for September. If only I had that vaccine cert in my hand I'd really feel more comfortable about it. 
Either ways I'll push your plane out in August if you'll push mine in September


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## joe sod

Feemar5 said:


> Heard on radio today you need to add the costs of two PCR tests and the possibility of quarantine if things change so  I wouldn’t be comfortable booking yet.


some countries accept antigen tests probably more as summer progresses and Ireland seen as safe, also likely that pcr tests will be subsidised so as not to discriminate against the young although ireland might not play ball you could still benefit from a cheaper pcr test for return. If you want to travel just do it, the government doesn't control your life, you do.


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## Shirazman

Algarve in October and Tenerife in Jan 2022.    We'll both have been vaccinated long berfore then so don't anticipate any problems.


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## Cervelo

I'm fully vaccinated now and Mrs Cervelo will be by the end of June but we're not planning anything for this year
We'll both hopefully be going to Spain for the winter in November but wont be looking or booking anything until September
Personally I feel its a little early to be going on holidays right now but late summer should hopefully show a different picture
The thought of sitting on a plane with several hundred other people just isn't floating my boat at the moment


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## Gorteen

Portugal in early August. Hope government will have the Covid passport issued by then


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## Pinoy adventure

One can only hope at this stage.
I think we have until April 2022 too use up our vouchers


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## chippengael

So here were are in mid-June. Given the go date of July 19th in Ireland, we booked out with Ryanair to Greece on the 13th of July, and not returning until after the 19th. Greece will be open for holiday makers then, we adults will be vaccinated by then (plus 2 week as required) and the kids can take PCR tests to satisfy the inbound criteria in Greece. Ryanair then cancelled our flight, offering a refund of the fare as there are now no flights available prior to July 19th. We booked with Aer Lingus instead just yesterday, and sure enough, they also cancelled their flight and now no flights are available prior to the 19th. I have no data but I suspect these pre-July 19th flights were filling up nicely with people like me making a calculation that it will be possible by that stage to exit the country as long as the return date is after the 19th. It seems strange then that both domestic carriers have cut all pre July 19th options. Of course it might also be the case that they were empty and not viable. At any rate it is now getting a bit messy, and if there is a push to crush all international travel prior to the 19th then any flight out to anywhere could also be cancelled, at least with the domestic carriers. Which leaves us up the creek without a proverbial. Buyer beware!


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## Gordon Gekko

chippengael said:


> So here were are in mid-June. Given the go date of July 19th in Ireland, we booked out with Ryanair to Greece on the 13th of July, and not returning until after the 19th. Greece will be open for holiday makers then, we adults will be vaccinated by then (plus 2 week as required) and the kids can take PCR tests to satisfy the inbound criteria in Greece. Ryanair then cancelled our flight, offering a refund of the fare as there are now no flights available prior to July 19th. We booked with Aer Lingus instead just yesterday, and sure enough, they also cancelled their flight and now no flights are available prior to the 19th. I have no data but I suspect these pre-July 19th flights were filling up nicely with people like me making a calculation that it will be possible by that stage to exit the country as long as the return date is after the 19th. It seems strange then that both domestic carriers have cut all pre July 19th options. Of course it might also be the case that they were empty and not viable. At any rate it is now getting a bit messy, and if there is a push to crush all international travel prior to the 19th then any flight out to anywhere could also be cancelled, at least with the domestic carriers. Which leaves us up the creek without a proverbial. Buyer beware!


That’s not how I would have read it or played it at all. You’re not supposed to GO until the 19th of July, so it’s fairly predictable that those flights were cancelled. It’s hard to see anything “strange” about it.


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## Roro999

Aer Lingus flights booked a while Dublin to Perpignan 21st September.
Received cancellarion notice this afternoon.


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## chippengael

Gordon Gekko said:


> That’s not how I would have read it or played it at all. You’re not supposed to GO until the 19th of July, so it’s fairly predictable that those flights were cancelled. It’s hard to see anything “strange” about it.


Yes, that's certainly true. The calculation was that travelling out in the week before the 19th might buy us better value, but it's becoming....difficult.


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## joer

I think it is far too soon to be booking flights abroad . There is still too much uncertainty .


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## kinnjohn

Roro999 said:


> Aer Lingus flights booked a while Dublin to Perpignan 21st September.
> Received cancellarion notice this afternoon.


I see Aer Lingus is canceling a number of flights to some European destinations  for the remainder of 2021 they have not given exact details on the  destinations affected,


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## Leper

Personal Opinion:- "It's too early to book a sun holiday" I hear many saying. I hear you, but for how long do you think we should be under siege not to travel? You are fully vaccinated or about to be fully vaccinated, what more protection do you need at this point in time?

We decided to "staycation" - What happened? The Irish hoteliers, renters of holiday homes, mobile home owners, etc hiked up their prices bigtime. Some of the prices we were quoted were absolute daylight robbery. Our daughter rented a house (heating not working, no hot water save for the kettle, cold shower and a few more disappointments) and only had to pay €600 for a three night stay (Mon - Wed) and vacate by 11.00am on which they were screwed even more with an additional uncalculated electricity charge and wait-for-it . . . the parking space for their car.

We booked our flights to Spain a month ago for August amidst objections from our daughter like we were going to come back in body bags. Now she has booked flights too and will accompany us and she doesn't care if there is a chance of catching the Bubonic Plague while we wait in the Ryanair Priority Queue. If Covid strikes again (as it can) we'll merely defer our flights at no cost as promised by Ryanair. We will not be disobeying any restrictions.

But, if you want to pay €600+ for an early week three nights Irish staycation, go ahead and I bet you'll book next year's sun holiday within milliseconds of returning home.


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## Laramie

I certainly think that when I am fully vaccinated, shortly, I should be able to travel abroad.  When I go, I will move about cautiously, eat and drink outside, walk the promenades, behave....

My problem is....airport crowds.....fools......more fools.....packed, hot stuffy planes.....wearing a mask on planes......I don't want any Covid tests that involve having something inserted up my nose....

Yesterday we were enjoying an outdoor coffee in The Club in UCD.  At the table about 3 feet away from us there were two older men. One of them sneezed all over the table and his friend.....we were down wind from this person who after 15 months still did not know that you have to cover your mouth when you sneeze.  It was disgusting.....we decided to move and just as we were leaving the table....he sneezed again.....over the table and his friend.

I wanted to confront this ignorant man but it was easier just to walk away........maybe if I had done so he might think twice the next time.....but we all know that there are still many of these ignorant people about us as we travel through our day and we all see them all the time.


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## kinnjohn

Interesting post there, There are lots of things we could do to stop the spread of covid in Ireland including stopping it coming into the country,

The problem I have at present if I go out for coffee/lunch  I don't know  if the people sitting at the next table to me are already  fully vaccinated and  just after coming into the Country has been on holidays in the last few days are carriers and don't realize it


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## noproblem

Laramie said:


> Yesterday we were enjoying an outdoor coffee in The Club in UCD. At the table about 3 feet away from us there were two older men. One of them sneezed all over the table and his friend.....we were down wind from this person who after 15 months still did not know that you have to cover your mouth when you sneeze. It was disgusting.....we decided to move and just as we were leaving the table....he sneezed again.....over the table and his friend





Laramie said:


> I wouldn't worry too much about it. If as you say they were elderly people we're being told they're the good ones now, as they're vaccinated. The pollen count this weather is very high and the poor soul just might have an allergy, hence the sneezing and probably no tissue. Next time that happens bring a tissue over to the unfortunate person. A big ignorant sneeze is a devil of a thing and know what? Most people at some stage are caught unawares by one. Next time, it could be you


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## Odea

No Problem says......"I wouldn't worry too much about it. If as you say they were elderly people we're being told they're the good ones now, as they're vaccinated. The pollen count this weather is very high and the poor soul just might have an allergy, hence the sneezing and probably no tissue. Next time that happens bring a tissue over to the unfortunate person. A big ignorant sneeze is a devil of a thing and know what? Most people at some stage are caught unawares by one. Next time, it could be you"

We have been told to sneeze in to the crook of our arm. Was this person not able to do this?  We can all be caught out by an instant sneeze but on this occasion the person sneezed a second time. Plenty of time to gather himself and not sneeze over the table or his companion.


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## kinnjohn

Odea said:


> We have been told to sneeze in to the crook of our arm. Was this person not able to do this?  We can all be caught out by an instant sneeze but on this occasion the person sneezed a second time. Plenty of time to gather himself and not sneeze over the table or his companion.


We have been told to sneeze into the crook of our arm the old man did not do so, The old man's actions cause me problems because I intend to Holidaying in Ireland this Summer and hope to eat out if I think it is safe to do so,

We are being told to holiday at home this year, there is a good chance the people doing the most spreading are the people as soon as they are vaccinated head off on foreign holidays now read the first part of the OP post,

 I fear transmissible Variants taking hold all over the World by people moving about from one country to the next while the virus is still very active,

By the way, I spend several months on foreign holidays each year until covid struck won't be going  because of the fear of getting Covid Myself but the fear of carrying a  Progressively more transmissible Variants into Ireland using the crook of my arm so to speak,


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## DK123

Does anyone know if someone owning a small holiday apartment in Spain gets any priority to travel re. maintainence letting it out etc.I asked HSE about this some time ago and the said that i should ask the guardai.Thanks


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## IsleOfMan

Probably the same as a large holiday apartment I would imagine.  A family member of mine owns a property in Spain and cannot travel.


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## Leper

DK123 said:


> Does anyone know if someone owning a small holiday apartment in Spain gets any priority to travel re. maintainence letting it out etc.I asked HSE about this some time ago and the said that i should ask the guardai.Thanks


It's regarded as non essential travel. If it wasn't I'd be there now.


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## DK123

Leper said:


> It's regarded as non essential travel. If it wasn't I'd be there now.


Thanks Leper.Much appreciated.


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## kinnjohn

Nice to see people not looking for loopholes to travel abroad unnecessarily until it is safe for all to do so,

I would love to go traveling abroad myself the most important thing to me right now is to make sure we don't cause another Irish lockdown by bringing more covid strains into the country endangering peoples health and restricting our movements within Ireland,
Enjoy and make the most of every summer break you can fit in stay safe,


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## noproblem

This morning I  met a guy I hadn't seen for over a year. Thing is, he's got a fabulous tan and after a short chat he told me he was away in a "sort of" camper van for the last 6 months. Gibraltar, Portugal, Spain and parts of France. Arrived home a week ago via ferry from Bilbao to Rosslare. Yes, he was supposed to get a covid test before coming, but never did, got a false one for €20 instead and never isolated after arriving, and has no intention of getting a vaccine either. I told the person they were being very uncivil and they weren't at all correct in going about mixing with everyone, and that if they wanted to go abroad again they would need a vaccine. I was very quickly told that there was no need for a vaccine and a black market one was very easy to get. To say I was angry is being mild. What's it all about when this is going on? Felt like reporting him, but couldn't do it. Anyone else meet people like this and what would you have done?


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## Leper

noproblem said:


> This morning I  met a guy I hadn't seen for over a year. Thing is, he's got a fabulous tan and after a short chat he told me he was away in a "sort of" camper van for the last 6 months. Gibraltar, Portugal, Spain and parts of France. Arrived home a week ago via ferry from Bilbao to Rosslare. Yes, he was supposed to get a covid test before coming, but never did, got a false one for €20 instead and never isolated after arriving, and has no intention of getting a vaccine either. I told the person they were being very uncivil and they weren't at all correct in going about mixing with everyone, and that if they wanted to go abroad again they would need a vaccine. I was very quickly told that there was no need for a vaccine and a black market one was very easy to get. To say I was angry is being mild. What's it all about when this is going on? Felt like reporting him, but couldn't do it. Anyone else meet people like this and what would you have done?


1. I'm not a bit surprised. Loads of people still travelling abroad knowing that they'll not be challenged by anybody and if they are they'll have an appointment with some Spanish dentist or Hungarian breast enhancer. They don't care about anybody, why should you care about them? Report them, I would. It's never the wrong time to do the right thing. 

2. And then there's the people who'll jump the queue for the vaccine. Loads of them too. Of course, all of them received a spare vaccine that was about to be binned if they didn't take it.


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## kinnjohn

Hopefully, he was winding you up or you are trying to wind posters up, I  don't think it was as simple as you explained to travel around Europe in a camper van and not get arrested and camper van taken, As an example and Leper should know for most of the last 6 months you would not be allowed to move around Spain in fact you could only go a few miles from your base,
What you explained might work in Ireland no in Europe,

If I met a person who was after coming back to Ireland in the last two weeks I would not put myself in danger by spending time talking to them But I think you are safe enough Hopefully he was just out of the sunbed when you met him,


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## Leper

kinnjohn said:


> Hopefully, he was winding you up or you are trying to wind posters up, I  don't think it was as simple as you explained to travel around Europe in a camper van and not get arrested and camper van taken, As an example and Leper should know for most of the last 6 months you would not be allowed to move around Spain in fact you could only go a few miles from your base,
> What you explained might work in Ireland no in Europe,
> 
> If I met a person who was after coming back to Ireland in the last two weeks I would not put myself in danger by spending time talking to them But I think you are safe enough he probably was just out of the sunbed when you met him,


Many people in the south of Spain have been complaining of the foreign and Spanish campervans roaming freely in all areas over the past months. The difference there the police call to the campervans and prosecute.


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## kinnjohn

I would say get prosecuted  once your days of roaming around freely are numbered,


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## noproblem

kinnjohn said:


> Hopefully, he was winding you up or you are trying to wind posters up, I  don't think it was as simple as you explained to travel around Europe in a camper van and not get arrested and camper van taken, As an example and Leper should know for most of the last 6 months you would not be allowed to move around Spain in fact you could only go a few miles from your base,
> What you explained might work in Ireland no in Europe,
> 
> If I met a person who was after coming back to Ireland in the last two weeks I would not put myself in danger by spending time talking to them But I think you are safe enough Hopefully he was just out of the sunbed when you met him,


I can assure you he wasn't winding me up. He headed off last December and went to Portugal. Have no idea what ferry he went on, or where he drove from after Portugal but i've already pointed out the countries he went to. From there he just did his thing. Lives off the state pension, around the 70 mark, free spirit type of fella, invite you to meet for a snack and you'd end up paying for it, ALWAYS. Knows what he's entitled to and that's it. Illegal means nothing to him.  Couldn't give a toss about anything, or anyone and gets away with it. I've no doubt he'll be off again in a few weeks, covid or no covid. Sorry if it comes across as a bit of bull, I can assure you it's 100% true.


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## kinnjohn

you would think then he would take the free covid vaccinated and get the green passport before he heads off again on his travels,


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## W200

Thought there for a while I had accidently clicked into the Boards or The Journal website . All the finger wagging , pointing and virtue signaling appearing towards the end of this thread is more akin to what I would expect from those sources rather than a serious and responsible site like " askabout " .
So far European campervanners , people who sneeze at the next table , vaccine que jumpers , those requiring dental treatment and boob job patients have all attracted the wrath of the " I never do anything wrong " brigade.
It must be a great feeling to have never diverted a millimeter from the rules and regulations during the pandemic and so be able to point out the failings of others . 
The general tone of replies has now veered towards "* I would risk a foreign holiday if it wasnt for all the others messing things up "*
Strang isnt it that its always those " others " that mess everything up for all us really responsible folks.
Bit the same way that bad driving is always the fault of all the "other" bad drivers .


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## IsleOfMan

........a bit like some of your own posts on various topics.....


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## DK123

Does anyone know what is the procedure and where do we get the application forms and who do we apply to for the covid green passport card for travelling to e.g. Spain when we already have the two vaccines procedures and the verification card for this and any other relevent details.Thanks


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## arbitron

I work in a Covid unit and will not be flying until late autumn at the earliest. About 1/4 of people we see have recently been on a plane and some have admitted to using a forged PCR test result. Just not worth the risk.


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## Pmc365

arbitron said:


> I work in a Covid unit and will not be flying until late autumn at the earliest. About 1/4 of people we see have recently been on a plane and some have admitted to using a forged PCR test result. Just not worth the risk.


Have these people been fully vaccinated?


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## arbitron

Pmc365 said:


> Have these people been fully vaccinated?


No, we haven't seen anyone fully vaccinated who required admission.

I did have a colleague elsewhere who was fully vaccinated and got Covid a few weeks later - probably one of the small number who don't get a good immune response, hence the need for herd immunity via vaccination so we can protect people like him.

We have had several people who had 1 dose and ended up admitted soon after which is tough for them as they have done their best for so long and just let the guard down a bit early.

At the beginning I was very much in the "it's a bad cold" brigade until I saw people younger than me being intubated. That was frightening. And now we see quite a few previously fit and healthy people who had mild/moderate Covid who are still breathless and having chest pains months later.

I love flying and we had lots of trips planned so I'm really looking forward to getting back on a plane, just no interest in rolling the dice yet.

Thankfully there are more and more safe ways to enjoy ourselves at home and fingers crossed we will be back travelling soon.


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## Cervelo

arbitron said:


> I work in a Covid unit


Just wanted to say thank you to you and your colleagues for the absolutely outstanding work you guys have done for us all
If ever there was a need for a holiday, you guys have certainly earned it


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## horusd

I booked London in late July and a one-way ticket back to Alicante  Spain in late SEPT. London is the one looking dodgy.  Spain I have a house and I'm fully vaxed. Doubling prices for  holiday houses in IRL is obscene but no surprise. During the crazy Celtic tiger days, Ilooked at a long weekend in Donegal and it would have cost me more than a week in Vienna - Vienna! What kind of Eden do some of our lads in tourism think we live it? Yeats' September 1913 comes to mind, about merchants, but the shoe fits: "What need you being come to sense but fumble in the greasy till and add the half-pence to the pence..."


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## Leo

horusd said:


> I booked London in late July and a one-way ticket back to Alicante  Spain in late SEPT. London is the one looking dodgy.  Spain I have a house and I'm fully vaxed. Doubling prices for  holiday houses in IRL is obscene but no surprise. During the crazy Celtic tiger days, Ilooked at a long weekend in Donegal and it would have cost me more than a week in Vienna - Vienna! What kind of Eden do some of our lads in tourism think we live it? Yeats' September 1913 comes to mind, about merchants, but the shoe fits: "What need you being come to sense but fumble in the greasy till and add the half-pence to the pence..."


If it's so easy make a killing in tourism here, why isn't there more jumping on the bandwagon?


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## Pinoy adventure

With the vaccine down too 39s-35s from Monday the holidays are becoming closer and closer


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## chippengael

Leo said:


> If it's so easy make a killing in tourism here, why isn't there more jumping on the bandwagon?


Have you written your business plan? Have you tried to get planning permission, insurance and finance to build your business? Have you done you market research and built your website? Have you done all the required registration and certifications to open your business? Then are you prepared to make every customer delighted to have chosen your offering? I've been trying to get into tourism for 5 years, and I'm still at the start of this list.


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## noproblem

chippengael said:


> Have you written your business plan? Have you tried to get planning permission, insurance and finance to build your business? Have you done you market research and built your website? Have you done all the required registration and certifications to open your business? Then are you prepared to make every customer delighted to have chosen your offering? I've been trying to get into tourism for 5 years, and I'm still at the start of this list.


That must be why my wife and I paid €20.00  for 2 toasted sandwiches and a pot of tea yesterday. and they were very ordinary sandwiches.  I don't doubt what you say, and I try my best to support home holidays, etc. It's this type of overcharging that gets on peoples nerves


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## Leper

noproblem said:


> That must be why my wife and I paid €20.00  for 2 toasted sandwiches and a pot of tea yesterday. and they were very ordinary sandwiches.  I don't doubt what you say, and I try my best to support home holidays, etc. It's this type of overcharging that gets on peoples nerves


When I have my first café breakfast of 2021 in the south of Spain in a few weeks time, I'll pay €1.50 (includes 2 mugs of coffee*, glass of water, glass or orange juice, two tapas - one savoury, one sweet).

. . . . and later when my wife wants her first pint it'll cost €1.50 too.

Just hope we can get there though.

*café con leche.


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## Leo

Leper said:


> When I have my first café breakfast of 2021 in the south of Spain in a few weeks time, I'll pay €1.50 (includes 2 mugs of coffee*, glass of water, glass or orange juice, two tapas - one savoury, one sweet).


If only we could find wait staff to work for €6 or €7 an hour here...


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## Leper

Leo said:


> If only we could find wait staff to work for €6 or €7 an hour here...


I think the high rents are the problems in Ireland not the staff.


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## Leo

Leper said:


> I think the high rents are the problems in Ireland not the staff.


Still only two of myriad factors that make comparisons utterly meaningless.


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