# Central Bank of Ireland: Huge Deposit Movements in November 2010



## Lightning (30 Dec 2010)

The Central Bank have just published their monthly stats for November 2010.

[broken link removed]

Brian Lucey on Twitter has made some interesting observations:



> Private sector deposits from non EU residents in Irish banks fell 3.5 billion EUR in November 2010 alone.
> Private sector deposits in Irish banks from Irish residents fell 5 billion EUR in November 2010 alone.
> Deposits in Irish banks from financial intermediaries, other than banks, fell 2.6 billion EUR in November 2010 alone.
> Central Bank data suggests deposits are leaving Ireland at a high rate.


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## Lightning (31 Dec 2010)

Here's the Irish Times take on the data ... 

*Bank deposits fell 6.7% in November, data shows*

[broken link removed]



> DEPOSITS continued to seep from banks last month, while lending to households and businesses declined again, according to the latest data from the Central Bank.
> Deposits, traditionally a key source of bank funding, fell by 6.7 per cent in November, according to the Central Bank. Household deposits were 4.5 per cent lower, while business deposits dropped by 14.9 per cent.
> Overall, the negative net monthly flow in deposits was €5.2 billion in November, bringing the three-month average to minus €2.1 billion and forcing banks to increase their reliance on funding from the European Central Bank.


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## dewdrop (31 Dec 2010)

What would happen is this withdrawal trend of deposits from Irish banks continues and perhaps accelerated.  Having watched the value of my bank shares gradually decline to nil and for some unknown reason felt powerless to take a decision and sell at some stage I am fearful am i witnessing a similar scenario slowly develop in regard to deposits.


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## Lightning (31 Dec 2010)

dewdrop said:


> What would happen is this withdrawal trend of deposits from Irish banks continues and perhaps accelerated.


 
6.8% of deposits lost inside one month is already very fast paced.

If/when it continues: 
1) The Irish banks will need yet more liquidity from the ECB (those who can still get repoed liquidity from the ECB)
2) The Irish banks will need yet more liquidity from the Central Bank of Ireland. 
3) Ireland INC is increasingly on the hook for any liquidity that is not paid back by the Irish banks to the Central Bank of Ireland. The intra relationship between the state and the banks grows. 
4) The banks will not meet the quarterly loans to deposits ratios set down by the IMF/ECB. The IMF will have to take action in this regard. 
5) If the Central Bank of Ireland or ECB pulls liquidity support, however unlikely, then none of the 6 Irish banks could stand on their own two feet. 
6) It is increases the likelyhood that some Irish banks will be sold to foreign banks/investors.


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## Jim2007 (31 Dec 2010)

Lets get a bit of perspective here!

This situation has existed for some time now, which is why the bail out occurred and why the bail out includes such high provisions for supporting the banking system.  So there really is nothing new in this!

I really don't see this kind of scaremongering to useful at this time...

Jim.


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## spreadsheet (31 Dec 2010)

Jim2007 said:


> scaremongering


 ??

It's just the truth. If it's scary it's scary. Nothing we can do about that.

The more we talk about what's happening the better. We are at the funeral of the Celtic Tiger. Let's cry and let it all out. Then get over it and move on.


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## Lightning (31 Dec 2010)

Jim2007 said:


> This situation has existed for some time now,


 
Not really. What happened in November 2010 is unprecedented. 

Granted, there has been some deposit withdrawals going on in Anglo and INBS over the past 2.5 years, and large corporate deposit withdrawals in Q3 2010, but the level of retail deposit withdrawals in the entire Irish banking system in November 2010 has no precedent. 



> this kind of scaremongering


 
The Irish Times/Brian Lucey/AAM and everyone else that is talking about the deposits exits are not scaremongering, we are just discuss the reality of the situation, using as much facts as possible. There is no point in pretending it is not happening.


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## Kai123 (31 Dec 2010)

Where are they moving their deposits to? 

Kai.


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## Lightning (31 Dec 2010)

Kai123 said:


> Where are they moving their deposits to?
> 
> Kai.


 
Mostly out of Irish banks to other non Irish banks operation in Ireland. Rabo seems to have been the main beneficiary. NIB, Nationwide UK and others have also seen their deposit base soar in recent times. 

Increasing, out of the state into EUR accounts in Germany, Belgium and elsewhere. 

For some, out of the state and out of EUR.


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## farmerette (31 Dec 2010)

thier will be a slowdown of withdrawls once a new goverment is elected , as many people were heard to comment around the time of the panic in november , even cowen had went on live tv and assured deposit holders that thier money was safe , the majority of people wouldnt have believed him

the goverment hasnt an ounce of credibility and as such the people have lost all trust


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## Lightning (31 Dec 2010)

farmerette said:


> thier will be a slowdown of withdrawls once a new goverment is elected



The new government are going to have their plate full with issues to address with the Irish banks. There is very little to think that they will bring additional confidence in the Irish banking system because they will have such big issues to deal with. 

2011 will bring the closure of Anglo, potentially further losses at Anglo, the closure of INBS, yet more re-capitalisation at AIB, more recapitalisation at BOI, recapitalisation of IL&P and possible nationalisation of BOI. 2011 will see attempts by the ECB to end emergency liquidity, further NAMA financing issues and likely growth in mortgage arrears. 

Also, the election campaign might be fought on the "separation of banks and the state". The uncertainty over what they may mean may lead, in itself, to a further loss in confidence. 

The flip side is EBS may be sold to Cardinal Capital and the possible sale of BOI to a foreign bank. Foreign ownership is likely to add to confidence in EBS and BOI if this does happen. 

FG/Labour will come into government with huge powers over the Irish banking sector. They will have some big decisions to make over the future of the Irish banks and some big "mine fields" to deal with. 

If confidence is not rebuilt in Irish banks, which I think can only be done by foreign ownership, and also the segregation of sovereign debt and bank debt/liabilities, then I can only see a further flow of deposits out of Irish banks.


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## pudds (31 Dec 2010)

Is there any real interest out there in anyone taking over the irish banks (ebs aside) How about banks in China or India arn't they supposed to be looking for investments.....are there sharks in the water just waiting for the right moment to pounce


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## Lightning (1 Jan 2011)

There have been constant rumours of foreign interest in the Irish banks. It would not surprise me if BOI is sold in 2011.

More on the deposit exits:

*Indo: Depositors shift €5.1bn out of banks in one month*

http://www.independent.ie/business/...ro51bn-out-of-banks-in-one-month-2479544.html



> The main Irish banks have reported an enormous loss of deposits this year.
> 
> Bank of Ireland said it had lost €10bn in a six-week period over August and September, while AIB said it lost €12bn of deposits over the four-and-a-half months to mid-November.





> Consumers that are resident outside of the EU continued to take their deposits out of the Irish banks, withdrawing €2.3bn in total in the three months to the end of November.



*ZeroHedge: Deposit Exits Picks Up Pace*

http://www.zerohedge.com/article/irish-ecb-borrowings-surge-countrys-bank-run-picks-speed



> Following the publication of the monthly Central Bank of Ireland flow statistics for November, that the country's bank ended up borrowing another massive amount of capital from both Europe and the central bank itself, should not be surprising. After all it was in November that Ireland followed Greece into the insolvency abyss, a place where none other than Olli Rehn guarded the gates to feudal hell. However, one much more troubling factor is that the depositor run from Irish banks, a development which many have cited as potentially being the catalyst for the next major step down in the European house of cards tumble, is accelerating. From the report: "Deposits from the Irish resident private sector were 6.7 per cent lower on a year-to-year basis in November 2010. The annual rate of change in deposits from Irish households was minus 4.5 per cent, whereas deposits from Irish NFCs fell by 14.9 per cent on an annual basis in November." What this means simply said, is that as more deposit capital is withdrawn from Irish banks, the more they will need to rely on ECB and ICB funding, the more distressed they will be perceived as, the more capital will be withdrawn and so on... But that is a 2011 story.



*Reuters: Irish Bank have Deposit Outflows*

http://www.reuters.com/article/idUS..._smid=twtr-reuters_biz&WT.z_smid_dest=Twitter



> Deposits from the Irish resident private sector were 6.7 percent lower on a year-to-year basis in November, separate figures showed.
> 
> Allied Irish Banks (ALBK.I), which Ireland effectively nationalised last week, said last month that it had lost 13 billion euros in deposits since the end of June.
> 
> ...



*NAMA Wine Lake: 2011 Predictions*

http://namawinelake.wordpress.com/2010/12/31/nama-in-2011-–-ten-predictions/



> However, more bank black holes might in themselves be rendered insignificant by the emerging spectre of a full-scale bank run. Corporate deposits have been fleeing out the door in recent months. And it is clear that the IMF and EU bailout has not put a stop to the flight. Despite Minister for Finance, Brian Lenihan’s assertions that as an island we will not see deposit flight, how long will it be before there are queues outside the six Irish banks to withdraw nearly €100bn of personal deposits and place the spondoolicks under the mattress or in non-Irish financial institutions? And what happens if the ECB stops shoring up the flight of deposits? And how much longer can we continue with the miracle that is the Central Bank of Ireland creating funding (backed by a State guarantee, natch) to replace fleeing deposits?


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## farmerette (1 Jan 2011)

CiaranT said:


> The new government are going to have their plate full with issues to address with the Irish banks. There is very little to think that they will bring additional confidence in the Irish banking system because they will have such big issues to deal with.
> 
> 2011 will bring the closure of Anglo, potentially further losses at Anglo, the closure of INBS, yet more re-capitalisation at AIB, more recapitalisation at BOI, recapitalisation of IL&P and possible nationalisation of BOI. 2011 will see attempts by the ECB to end emergency liquidity, further NAMA financing issues and likely growth in mortgage arrears.
> 
> ...


 

surely one of the reasons depositers were withdrawing thier savings in such a frenzy was down to thier lack of trust in the present goverment , a new goverment will bring a relativley fresh start and besides , eventually , people will have to start putting money back in irish banks if we are to have any kind of a future


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## UFC (1 Jan 2011)

I hate FF, but do most people really think FG will do a better job? They've been absolutely useless in opposition so I can't see them doing much better in power.


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## Jim2007 (2 Jan 2011)

CiaranT said:


> There have been constant rumours of foreign interest in the Irish banks. It would not surprise me if BOI is sold in 2011.



Given that most viable banks are going to have to stop paying dividends and conserve capital for the next few years in order to reach Basel III Tier 1 capital requirements, it is hard to see how any CEO could justify taking on an Irish bank to his shareholders.  Let alone come up with the capital that would be required to bring BOI into line with Basel III requirements, from it's current state.

I expect in the end, the entire banking sector will have to be restructured by the government of the day, as it is very hard to see anything of value remaining at this stage.  

Jim.


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## Lightning (2 Jan 2011)

farmerette said:


> surely one of the reasons depositers were withdrawing thier savings in such a frenzy was down to thier lack of trust in the present goverment , a new goverment will bring a relativley fresh start and besides , eventually , people will have to start putting money back in irish banks if we are to have any kind of a future



To answer your question, we need to think about why we have had and have massive deposit exits. 

1) Irish banks been downgraded, then downgraded again, then again. Corporate depositor's, which make a huge portion of banks deposits either cannot have their money in junk rated banks or their compliance departments will not let them. 
Will a new government change this? No. 

2) A lot of hedge funds have pulled money out of Irish banks. Again, this is down to credit ratings and the perceived risk of Ireland INC. 
Will a new government change this? No. 

3) Some money have been pulled out of NTMA/An Post savings due to fear over the massive Irish national debt and our ability to pay back the national debt. People don't want their savings invested in the Irish national debt.
Will a new government change this? No, the national debt is only going to get worse and default is a very real possibility. 

4) People are pulling money out of the EUR because of fear over what will happen to the EUR. There is a growing school of thought that the EUR will fall apart and Ireland will convert to 'An Punt Nua'. 
Will a new government change this? No. Portugal, Spain and Belgium will decide this for the new government. 

5) Money is been pulled out of the Irish banks because of the growing losses at Irish banks and fears over their solvency.  
Will a new government change this? No. Mortgage arrears etc etc are out of the hands of the new government. 

6) Recently there is a growing fears over what will happen when the ECB pulls emergency liquidity from the Irish banks? Can they survive without emergency liquidity backing up the deposit exits?
Will a new government change this? No. The ECB will make this decision themselves in the coming weeks.



Jim2007 said:


> Given that most viable banks are going to have to stop paying dividends and conserve capital for the next few years in order to reach Basel III Tier 1 capital requirements, it is hard to see how any CEO could justify taking on an Irish bank to his shareholders.  Let alone come up with the capital that would be required to bring BOI into line with Basel III requirements, from it's current state.



Who said a bank will buy BOI? Who said they will have to pay anything to acquire BOI? 

I would guess that a private equity firm will buy BOI for a nominal sum of 1 EUR for their entire Irish operation backed by huge government guarantees. Just a guess.


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## Lightning (2 Jan 2011)

A very interesting point has been made on thepropertypin.com about the Central Bank of Ireland stats. They only show money leaving the country, the stats do not include those that are moving money out of one Irish bank (AIB etc) and into another Irish based bank (Rabo etc). 

Hence, these stats are only the tip of the iceberg of what has happened to deposits in November. 

From the Central Bank of Ireland:



> The reporting population which is covered in these tables are all credit institutions resident in Ireland. Credit institutions, as defined in Community Law, are undertakings whose business is to receive deposits or other repayable funds from the public and to grant credits for their own account and/or issue means of payment in the form of electronic money. In the Irish case, resident credit institutions comprise licensed banks, building societies and, since January 2009, credit unions as regulated by the Registrar of Credit Unions. A resident office means an office or branch of the reporting institution which is located in ‘the State’ (the Republic of Ireland). These are: institutions incorporated and located in the Republic of Ireland, including subsidiaries of parent companies located outside the Republic of Ireland; and branches of institutions that have their head office outside the Republic of Ireland. Reporting institutions report the data in respect of their resident offices only.


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## farmerette (3 Jan 2011)

UFC said:


> I hate FF, but do most people really think FG will do a better job? They've been absolutely useless in opposition so I can't see them doing much better in power.


 
spoken like a true  closet FF voter


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## Lightning (3 Jan 2011)

Even CNN are taking about the Irish deposit flight now, or be a slightly sensational take on the major issues at hand ...

*CNN: The Irish Deposit Flight*





> The flight from Irish banks has been most pronounced among foreigners, who presumably are less attached to their bailed-out bankers and can easily find other banks that, at least for the moment, appear less apt to go out of business.
> 
> Some 20 billion euros ($27 billion) of overseas deposits fled the country in November alone, according to the Central Bank of Ireland. *The level of foreign deposits has plunged 28% in the past year and is down 42%* from its bubbly peak.
> 
> ...



Again, CNN also miss the point that the ICB stats only show deposits leaving the country. A lot more than 6.3 billion left the 6 Irish banks for foreign Irish based banks in November 2010. The year end financial results for the banks will paint a clearer picture as to what is really going on with deposits.


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## UFC (3 Jan 2011)

farmerette said:


> spoken like a true  closet FF voter



Never voted for them in my life! 

Back on topic:

So if I understand the significance of this slow bank run properly, it means the IMF/EU bailout we've been given will only last for a few months?


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## spreadsheet (3 Jan 2011)

CiaranT said:


> The year end financial results for the banks will paint a clearer picture as to what is really going on with deposits.



When do those results come out?


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## Lightning (3 Jan 2011)

Early March 2011 or thereabouts.



UFC said:


> So if I understand the significance of this slow bank run properly, it means the IMF/EU bailout we've been given will only last for a few months?



The more deposits fall, the more money the government/IMF/EU/ICB/ECB/BOE (yes, the BOE have given Irish banks 10 billion GBP) must pump into the 6 Irish banks to keep them solvent and prevent them from collapsing. That is assuming that the central banks continue to play ball and do not pull liquidity. 

The IMF came here to stop the bank drain and some of their funds are being used directly to help the Irish banks, and consequently to try and stop central banks from having to prop them up. 

If, as seems to be happening, deposits continue to fall combined with further losses on loans, then the money needed to pump into the Irish banks to keep them solvent, may run the risk of exceeding the bailout fund. 

That is, unless the 'money' starts coming from yet more under-the-radar magical ICB "promissory notes".


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## spreadsheet (3 Jan 2011)

CiaranT said:


> Early March 2011 or thereabouts.



Thanks. I think I need to make a wall chart of all the things that are coming in the next 3-4 months. No doubt theres people beavering about with their plans for this nation, yet to be revealed. The common man like myself can only guess from a couple of clues where we're headed.


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## jpd (3 Jan 2011)

best thing would be to arrange takeovers by a foreign bank - at least then, everyone might stop shifting their deposits offshore


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## Lightning (4 Jan 2011)

This bank flight is starting to get very serious, 70 billion EUR in deposits have left the country in 2010 according to analysis by the Indo below. If you factor in deposits that have moved from the 6 Irish banks to foreign based banks in Ireland, then the figure is even bigger:

*Indo: €70bn in deposits Have Fled Irish banks as Irish Banks haemorrhaged Deposits*

http://www.independent.ie/business/...eposits-fled-irish-banks-in-2010-2482304.html



> IRELAND'S domestic *banks have haemorrhaged more than €70bn in deposits in the past year, as savers and company treasurers pulled their cash out of our financial institutions. *
> 
> The massive flight in deposits is revealed in an analysis of monthly data from the Central Bank and charts a period of unprecedented turmoil in Ireland's financial landscape.
> 
> The figures show our banks lost €69.5bn of deposits between the start of 2010 and the end of November. Further outflows are likely to have occurred in December, putting 2010's total deposits exodus at well over €70bn.


 
The Indo gets the point, that CNN and others have missed:



> The data covers about 20 "domestic credit institutions", incorporating the traditional Irish banks plus foreign players with Irish retail operations like KBC, Rabobank and Northern Rock.
> 
> As such, *it masks the likely flight in deposits from 'traditional' Irish banks to foreign-owned institutions like Rabobank and National Irish Banks, which are perceived as 'safer'. *


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## RuthNaz (4 Jan 2011)

So the plan was that the IMF would fill the deposit drain rather than the CB? If so at this rate of going Ireland will need a second bail out in a short period of time or will need to default.


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## oldtimer (4 Jan 2011)

How do I find out the amount withdrawn from An Post saving products over the same period?


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## ROBERT_R (4 Jan 2011)

After all this and everthing else that has happened with the damn banks whoever if anyone has money left in an Irish bank account has only themselves left to blame when Ireland defaults.


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## Lightning (4 Jan 2011)

oldtimer said:


> How do I find out the amount withdrawn from An Post saving products over the same period?



NTMA are yet to publish the national debt year end accounts. These should reveal the figure when published.


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## Lightning (4 Jan 2011)

Another wonderful piece by NAMA Wine Lake, this is a very well informed and balanced piece on what is happening, an article that is well worth reading:

*NAMA Wine Lake: Continuing deposit flight versus finite central bank support. What gives?*

http://namawinelake.wordpress.com/2...ersus-finite-central-bank-support-what-gives/



> What we know -
> (a) The ECB has provided €138.2bn of Emergency Liquidity Assistance to the Irish banking system to the end of November, 2010 of which €97.3bn was to the domestic Irish banking system (list of banks at bottom). The ELA is confirmed in the note at the bottom of page 4 of the latest CBI monthly report. Lending from the ECB is up from €80bn in April 2010 and at €138.2bn at the end of November, considerably higher than the previous era all-time high of €118.3bn in March 2009 when the Irish banking system was teetering following the nationalization of Anglo and the exposed €7bn liquidity holes in AIB and Bank of Ireland.
> (b) The Central Bank of Ireland has additionally provided liquidity assistance of €44.674bn to domestic Irish banks to the end of November, 2010 up from €13.474bn at the start of 2010 and increasing by €30bn-odd in the three months ending November 2010.
> (c) Some €70bn of deposits fled Irish domestic banks (the six State-guaranteed and some 14 others that provide domestic banking facilities) in the 11 months to the end of November, 2010.
> (d) The six State-guaranteed banks had €198bn of customer deposits as at their last reporting dates (June 2010 save for INBS which was in December 2009). ECB funding has increased from €87.3bn to €138.2bn since June 2010. If all of this was to replace deposits in the six State guaranteed banks, that would still leave a potential requirement of €150bn from the ECB/CBI should deposits flee in their entirety.



Meanwhile, Brian Lucey who has been following this from the start, and has been well clued in, shares his latest colourful thoughts on Twitter:



> can't see much confidence returning to stop this brisk it's-a-walk-but-really-fast on the banks for a while





> these are different (Central Bank) promissory notes...new, improved, off balance sheet ones





> Fortune magazine "torrents of money pouring out of Ireland."


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## DMcL1971 (5 Jan 2011)

I'm a bit confused. Does this 70bn figure include money that has been moved from the Irish banks to foreign banks with operations in Ireland such as Rabo and NIB. Or has this money actually left the country to foreign soil?

It just seems that if you lose faith in an Irish bank the easiest thing for an ordinary punter is to move their money to the likes of Rabo or NIB. It is far more difficult to set up a foreign bank account, without being resident, and move your money there.


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## Lightning (5 Jan 2011)

The 70,000,000,000 EUR refers to money that has been taken out of the country. It does not cover transfers to foreign based banks in Ireland like Rabo. 

It takes some time for a retail saver to open a bank account in NI/IOM/Europe etc. 

However, it is much easier for corporate customers and hedge fund customers to move money to other locations. The greatest movements have been from corporate customers, but many retail savers have also moved funds abroad.


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## UFC (5 Jan 2011)

DMcL1971 said:


> It is far more difficult to set up a foreign bank account, without being resident, and move your money there.


 
In fairness, it is very easy to set up a Keytrade Belgium account, and opening a Deutsche Bank account is fairly painless (apart from having to go to Berlin, but hey, it's a nice city).


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## Lightning (5 Jan 2011)

I went to see David McWilliams in the Abbey Theatre last July. He spent some time talking about how this banking crisis would end in a terminal Irish deposit flight. At the time I could not see that happening. He was once again right, about the deposit flight aspect anyway, and once again displayed tremendous foresight in his usual colourful language. 

Today's David McWilliams article, deals with the deposit flight, where some of the money is going and how it will be the "ultimate end game" for Irish banking policy:

http://www.independent.ie/opinion/c...lts-filling-up-with-our-deposits-2483877.html



> First to leave is professional capital. This is the money in the stock market which goes. Then money leaves the bond market. The bond market shuts down. Then the big corporate deposits leave as financial directors of large companies decide that they are not being paid for the risk of holding assets in the crippled banking system. Ultimately, this fear permeates down the food chain and ultimately the ordinary depositors up sticks and head for the hills.
> 
> This column has made this point for more than two years now: the ultimate endgame arising from this government's banking policy will be capital flight. The most damning indictment of this government's competence is that at a time when Irish people have never saved -- or wanted to save -- more, we are seeing deposits leave our own banks. Last week, this column discussed the massive switch from spending to saving in Ireland and yet bank results show deposits leaving the system.
> 
> ...





> They also explained that lots of money is coming from Ireland. These guys, who I worked with years ago, have never really seen any business from Ireland and certainly during the boom they looked on with a sense of trepidation because they had seen this before.
> 
> Now they are getting calls from Dublin on a daily basis.


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## Chris (6 Jan 2011)

CiaranT said:


> A very interesting point has been made on thepropertypin.com about the Central Bank of Ireland stats. They only show money leaving the country, the stats do not include those that are moving money out of one Irish bank (AIB etc) and into another Irish based bank (Rabo etc).



Heard someone on Newstalk yesterday lunchtime highlighting this fact. I agree with you that the bigger picture for Irish banks is far worse than just the money that has left Ireland.

Also, excellent summary on why a new government will have little if any impact on confidence in Irish banks. The sooner these corporate corpses of banks are liquidated the better. If only it had been done 2 years ago.


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## Lightning (6 Jan 2011)

> Also, excellent summary on why a new government will have little if any impact on confidence in Irish banks.


 
Thanks Chris. 



> I agree with you that the bigger picture for Irish banks is far worse than just the money that has left Ireland.


 
Exactly, If 70,000,000,000 EUR has left Irish banks to go abroad, in a short period of time, then what is the figure if you add in what has left the 6 Irish banks for NIB/Rabo/Ulster/NUK etc etc? One would think it would be well over 100 billion EUR, which given the small size of deposits in Irish banks, is nothing short of a monumental huge tidal wave of deposit movements of unprecedented proportions. 

Confidence is completly and totally gone in the Irish banks. I wish the government would let them go to the wall with their liabilities (Anglo, INBS and AIB) or sell them to foreign owners at nominal cost (BOI and EBS) or force their parent company to stump up more more cash (IL&P).


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## SS expert (6 Jan 2011)

I was under the impression that money was going into these banks (NIB/Rabo/Ulster/NUK )


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## Lightning (6 Jan 2011)

SS expert said:


> I was under the impression that money was going into these banks (NIB/Rabo/Ulster/NUK )


 
Yes, they have all had inflows. 

The 6 Irish banks have had outflows to (1) internationally which are captured in the CB stats and (2) domestically to Rabo, NIB, NUK etc which are not in the stats.


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## SS expert (6 Jan 2011)

I get you now, read it wrong...


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## farmerette (6 Jan 2011)

UFC said:


> In fairness, it is very easy to set up a Keytrade Belgium account, and opening a Deutsche Bank account is fairly painless (apart from having to go to Berlin, but hey, it's a nice city).


 

do you believe openning an account with the likes of INVESTEC ( who are foreign owned )  offers as much security as opening an account outside the state altogether


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## Lightning (6 Jan 2011)

@farmerette - Of course money outside the Irish state is 'safer'. 

When the Central Bank of Ireland came out with the stats, I emailed the Central Bank of Ireland with questions on their deposit stats. 

I was, at the time, finding it hard to get my head around the fact that 70 billion in deposits had so quickly left the country, especially given the small pool of Irish deposits. I knew money was flocking in droves from the 6 Irish banks into Rabo, NUK, Ulster and NIB but I was shocked with the stat that 70 billion in deposits had *ALSO* left the country. Hence, I was basically querying/confirming if the 70 billion was deposits going out of the 6 Irish banks into foreign banks in Ireland or if it was deposits going out of the country as a whole. 

I know this has since been cleared up, that it is money leaving the country, but for the record here is the email from the Central Bank of Ireland to me also confirming this:



> Hi Ciaran,
> 
> Please see below an expert from the Explanatory Notes which accompany our Money and Banking tables:
> 
> ...


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