# Sole Trader registration



## Thai'd Up (25 Mar 2012)

When starting a new business as a sole trader am I required to register anything?
Eg. Do I have to register a company name, because so far I have only found ways of registering a name for a limited company and not a sole trader.


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## Paddy199 (26 Mar 2012)

Yes. TR1 for Revenue and Form RBN1 for Companies Registration Office.

See here for more details on RBN1 registration: [broken link removed]


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## Jonny (26 Mar 2012)

You can register a buisness name for a sole trader (Form RBN1) on-line at companies registration office.ie fee 25euro You are not reqiured to do this It is a personal choice Its simply a buisness name ie Joe Bloggs T|A The Village Diner The main thing is to register with the revenue as a sole trader which is done in your own name The trading name or buisness name rgistration is optional


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## RonanC (26 Mar 2012)

Jonny said:


> You can register a buisness name for a sole trader (Form RBN1) on-line at companies registration office.ie fee 25euro You are not reqiured to do this It is a personal choice Its simply a buisness name ie Joe Bloggs T|A The Village Diner The main thing is to register with the revenue as a sole trader which is done in your own name The trading name or buisness name rgistration is optional


 
This is not exactly true. 

Anyone wishing to trade or already trading under a name which differs to their own true name, *must* register as a Business or Company with the CRO.


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## itsallwrong (26 Mar 2012)

You don't have to register for VAT straight way until you pass the thresholds
Then you must register.

€37,500 for the supply of services, and €75,000 for the supply of goods.
If you don't need to register for VAT then don't.


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## Jonny (26 Mar 2012)

Not so RonanC  anyone wishing to trade as a sole trader is quiet entitled to do so under their own name thereby having nothing whatsoever to do with buisness names or buisness name registration


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## itsallwrong (26 Mar 2012)

I am registered as Myreal Name trading as Blah.

I also registered the trading name to protect it - meaning nobody else can use it in this country. Another 20 quid if I remember

Make very sure you understand the implications of trading under your own name or trading as such and such compared to a limited company.

If it goes pear shaped, the creditor comes after what you have in your name.
Not the case for a limited company, unless you were negligent. Read up on it well.
And never give personal guarantees.  That revokes the limited company protection and puts the crosshairs back on you.
There are other threads on the board about personal guarantees.


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## RonanC (26 Mar 2012)

Jonny said:


> Not so RonanC anyone wishing to trade as a sole trader is quiet entitled to do so under their own name thereby having nothing whatsoever to do with buisness names or buisness name registration


 
Jonny, read what I said. You said the registration of a Business Name is optional.. Its not. 



> Registration of a business name is *obligatory *if any individual or partnership (whether composed of individuals or bodies corporate or any combination of both) or any body corporate carries on *business under a name other than their own true names.*


[broken link removed]

Also, the fee is €40 if the application is filed in paper format. It is €20 if done electronically using [broken link removed]


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## smeharg (26 Mar 2012)

itsallwrong said:


> ...
> I also registered the trading name to protect it - meaning nobody else can use it in this country.
> ...


 
This isn't correct - the registration of a business name doesn't prevent someone else registering that name and using it.


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## RonanC (26 Mar 2012)

As smeharg says, there is no name protection with a Business Name.


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## smeharg (26 Mar 2012)

itsallwrong said:


> You don't have to register for VAT straight way until you pass the thresholds


 
Not quite correct.  You must register when your turnover for the _*next*_ 12 months is _*likely*_ to exceed the threshold.



itsallwrong said:


> If you don't need to register for VAT then don't.


 
This is bad advice - there are circumstances under which it can be beneficial to register for VAT.


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## itsallwrong (26 Mar 2012)

Yes there are circumstances that benefit you, but having being trading for 23 years with a VAT number for a lot of them, I have yet to see the glaring benefit to register for VAT when setting up.  So all and all I would say it's circumstance and would still not recommend it unless you need it.


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## smeharg (26 Mar 2012)

itsallwrong said:


> Yes there are circumstances that benefit you, but having being trading for 23 years with a VAT number for a lot of them, I have yet to see the glaring benefit to register for VAT when setting up. So all and all I would say it's circumstance and would still not recommend it unless you need it.


 
The most obvious situation would be where your customers have full VAT recoverabilty on purchases and you have significant investment in equipment to make.


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## bazermc (26 Mar 2012)

smeharg said:


> The most obvious situation would be where your customers have full VAT recoverabilty on purchases and you have significant investment in equipment to make.


 
Not true, it is nothing to do with the customers VAT recoverability.  The traders recoverability needs to be considered in this case the OP. i.e. if the OP business cannot recover VAT then it would be pointless registering early.


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## Ants09 (26 Mar 2012)

itsallwrong said:


> Yes there are circumstances that benefit you, but having being trading for 23 years with a VAT number for a lot of them, I have yet to see the glaring benefit to register for VAT when setting up.  So all and all I would say it's circumstance and would still not recommend it unless you need it.



1 reclaim vat on fixtures & fittings when starting up for one if its considerable
2 if your a zero rates vatable activity then it might be wise to register

to name but a few


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## smeharg (26 Mar 2012)

bazermc said:


> Not true, it is nothing to do with the customers VAT recoverability. The traders recoverability needs to be considered in this case the OP. i.e. if the OP business cannot recover VAT then it would be pointless registering early.


 
You're missing the point.

If the customer can reclaim the VAT then the VAT doesn't effect the price paid by that customer.  If the customer cannot reclaim the VAT then the VAT becomes part of the price paid.  Therefore, the type of customer should influence a decision on whether or not to register early.


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## bazermc (27 Mar 2012)

smeharg said:


> You're missing the point.
> 
> If the customer can reclaim the VAT then the VAT doesn't effect the price paid by that customer. If the customer cannot reclaim the VAT then the VAT becomes part of the price paid. Therefore, the type of customer should influence a decision on whether or not to register early.


 

Agree, but the OP VAT rcovery is also relevant


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## Jonny (27 Mar 2012)

*other than their own true names  *  Point being an individual can operate as a sole trader using their own name & as previously stated have nothing to do whatsoever with buisness name registration  This registration is becoming more obsolete by the day as the once limited protection it offered (to the name) has now been all but eroded. It boils down to a personal choice


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## 44brendan (27 Mar 2012)

Jonny said:


> *other than their own true names *Point being an individual can operate as a sole trader using their own name & as previously stated have nothing to do whatsoever with buisness name registration This registration is becoming more obsolete by the day as the once limited protection it offered (to the name) has now been all but eroded. It boils down to a personal choice


Yes. However, for marketing/other reasons some traders may have a preference to trade under a name other than their own. payments to the business may be made to the trading name. In order to transact cheques/payments to a trading name a bank will require a copy of the Business Name Registration Cert.


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## RonanC (27 Mar 2012)

Jonny said:


> This registration is becoming more obsolete by the day



Sorry but check the facts before making statements like that.

Business Name registrations with the CRO for 2010 - 28,089. An increase of 9% compared to 2009. (from CRO annual report for 2010)

More and more people are registering a Business Name instead of a Ltd Company as they simply dont want the hassle a Ltd Company brings in their first year or two of business.


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## Jonny (30 Mar 2012)

If you read a Certificate of Buisness Name Registration issued 10 yrs ago & then proceed to read a current one you will see exactly what I mean by its effectiveness being eroded as stated above it is in the main a tool for advertising,marketing,banking & remains very much a personal choice  The 9% rise is attributable to many factors including but not limited to many directors of previously viable Ltd. companies now operating much smaller operations in a sole trader capacity  The increase cannot in any way be seen as an endorsement of the strength or indeed the legal protection of this sort of buisness registration.


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