# Rectifying an erroneous bank transfer?



## ClubMan (28 Jul 2007)

I know that there are a few existing threas about what people would/could/should do if money unexpectedly appeared in their accounts due to a transfer/lodgement error on the part of another person. But I'm wondering about this from the other end... and unfortunately it's not an academic question. 

I transferred some money from an _NR _account to a _PTSB _account - except that I got one digit of the destination account sort code wrong so the money ostensibly went elsewhere. Now the incorrect sort code happens to be valid and coincidentally refers to another _PTSB _branch also in Dublin. Does anybody know if banks have any sort of standard procedure for dealing with/rectifying such errors and "retrieving" the money? Who is most likely to be able to help most here - _NR _as the originating bank or _PTSB _as the receiving bank (for both the intended and mistakenly identified destination accounts)? How likely is it that an account number at one _PTSB _branch would have an identical twin at another such that they are distinguished by sort code only? If the destination account does not actually exist then where would the money be? 

Any advice/reassurance would be gratefully received!  I only discovered the mistake this afternoon and will obviously be calling both banks on _Monday _(no out of hours service unfortunately).


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## MugsGame (28 Jul 2007)

Have NR actually actioned the transfer? You can cancel pending transfers online.

I would mention it to NR first
1) in case they haven't initiated the transfer yet. 
2) so they know what to do if PTSB bounce the transfer back, e.g. because there is no account with that number at that branch, or the name on the matching account doesn't match the name on the transfer

I would also get onto the branch you transferred to, and see what they say. Since you are a PTSB customer, and your name was on the transfer, I think this will be easier to sort out then if it was intended to  be a transfer from you to a third party.

NR are not a clearing bank, so there is very little they can do if the money has left their AIB holding account and PTSB don't want to / can't return it.


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## Caveat (28 Jul 2007)

I assume this was done on-line and there were no other identifying descriptions/codes/text etc for your 'destination' account other than a/c and sort code.

Can't advise professionally, but my guess would be that the PTSB would be best placed to deal with this - we get 'mystery' erroneous payments regularly at work by the way. As regards standard procedures at banks - well I wouldn't hold out much hope there - they're not exactly pro-active in my experience: more a case of 'computer says no' etc.

Although not best practice, I wouldn't be surprised at the identical a/c no./ different sort code syndrome - a bit like identical phone number but different prefix?

Good luck with it - I'd say just ask to speak directly to the manager of the intended PTSB account - I'm sure NR would distance themselves from the whole thing.


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## ClubMan (28 Jul 2007)

MugsGame said:


> Have NR actually actioned the transfer? You can cancel pending transfers online.


Yes - money is gone from this account and the transfer was initiated about 10 days ago.


> Presumably you are a customer of PTSB.


Yes.

I will obviously get onto both of them but was just wondering what the normal (?) procedure might be in this context.


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## ClubMan (28 Jul 2007)

Caveat said:


> I assume this was done on-line and there were no other identifying descriptions/codes/text etc for your 'destination' account other than a/c and sort code.


Actually there were additional details entered online (it was in the normal _NR _nominated account settings) such as account/holder name, bank address etc.

Thanks for the rest of your comments/advice. Fingers crossed on Monday so...


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## MugsGame (28 Jul 2007)

> Yes - money is gone from this account and the transfer was initiated about 10 days ago.



I would have expected PTSB to bounce it back if the destination account was invalid. So either
- it's sitting in NR's holding account, and they haven't been able to identify the rightful owner, and are waiting for you to get in contact
- PTSB haven't identifed the owner yet and it's sitting in a suspense a/c over there
- PTSB had a matching account and are none the wiser. This is the worst situation for you, since PTSB may have to ask the actual recipient to return the money.


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## ClubMan (28 Jul 2007)

Thanks for clarifying the possible scenarios.


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## Brendan Burgess (29 Jul 2007)

It is very difficult to transfer money to a wrong account by accident. It is extremely rare. 

Banks do not have duplicate account numbers in different branches. 

So if you got the account number correct, the money is in suspense and not in someone else's bank. 

If you get the sort code correct but the account number wrong, you could be very unlucky and find a valid account number at that branch, but it would be like picking a needle out of a haystack. The account code is 8 digits. So there are 100m(?) possible account numbers. How many accounts would a branch of permanent tsb have? 10,000 max? So there is about 1 chance in 10,000 of getting the wrong account by accident. 

And even if they do, I suspect that the permanent tsb would just reverse the transaction assuming that the money is still in the account. 

Nothing to worry about.

Brendan


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## ClubMan (29 Jul 2007)

Thanks _Brendan_. Will find out tomorrow what the story is for sure.


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## ClubMan (30 Jul 2007)

Looks like it's OK and the money bounced back to _NR _(so did not hit a valid account with the same account number as the real one but with a different branch sort code) and has been reconciled as originally coming from the source account in question and will be returned today. Oddly enough there seems to be no charge/penalty for this customer mistake and, in fact, _NR_ say that the interest will be backdated as if this mistaken transfer never happened. 

Phew!


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## pc7 (30 Jul 2007)

ah that's great news !


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## Brendan Burgess (30 Jul 2007)

Great news ClubMan. You can sleep well tonight.

brendan


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## ClubMan (7 Aug 2007)

If I had known about the  (form at the top right of the page) and been able to ascertain that the mistaken target account was not actually valid then it might have saved me a few nerve endings at the time!


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## runner (7 Aug 2007)

NR would be afraid to charge you Clubman!


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## Gulliver (7 Aug 2007)

Clubman - good to hear that the money is back in the account.

However, it does bring up some issues surrounding accounting by numbers.

Bank account numbers were introduced in banking in Ireland in the late 1960s or early 1970s to facilitate computerisation (I remember it - I was there). Previously, accounts were identified only by customer name.

No legislation was introduced to support account numbers. So in the event that there is a clash of identifiers (presumably that was the case for Clubman - the account number did not match the name) which takes precenence - the number or the name? It is my belief that the customer name takes precedence in law - and that if a bank posts items by number only, then it runs the risk of a lawsuit if an item is posted to a wrong account as a result.

The new EU Payment Services Directive (not yet law in Ireland) gives some legal significance to IBAN numbers (as did EU Regulation 2560/2001), and is likely to be introduced here within the year.

Brendan - as an ex-banker, I can tell you that account numbers are not unique. One large bank has a system whereby its numbers are unique within that bank, but may be repeated in other banks. The other large bank has a system whereby account numbers are only unique within the branch - some might be repeated in the branch down the road.


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## ClubMan (8 Aug 2007)

Gulliver said:


> So in the event that there is a clash of identifiers (presumably that was the case for Clubman - the account number did not match the name)


No - in my case I got one digit of the sort code wrong and the account number was correct. The erroneous sort code happened to identify another branch of the bank in which the actual intended target account was located (i.e. _Ballyfermot PTSB _instead of _College Green PTSB_). However this combination of erroneous sort code and account number did not identify an account that did not exist. If it had and they did not check additional details such as account name then I presume that the money would have been transferred to the wrong account and I/the bank would have had to chase the matter up with the account holder? As it was the transfer "bounced" back to the originating bank (_NR_) and eventually was reconciled to the originating account to which it was returned.


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## solair (10 Aug 2007)

As a previous poster said:

In the Republic of Ireland the banks all issue unique 8-digit account numbers to every customer, the sort codes are really largely just to make life easier for the clearing system to quickly sort the transaction. 

If you put in a wrong sort code, there is no way the bank account number will be correct for that branch. So, you're safe enough!

The only risk would be if you used a different institutions sort code, and some how managed to randomly hit a valid account number in that branch!! The odds are nearly as good as winning the lotto though!

Be careful of UK banks though, they usually issue account numbers locally in each branch and you can end up paying money into someone else's account by using the wrong sort code.


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## agapanthus (10 Aug 2007)

I work for a main bank in Ireland and I know that my current account number exists in 4 other branches under their different sort codes.   My account number is certainly not unique, only the sort code differentiates it from the other customers accounts


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