# Need a "career" change.  Thinking of teaching



## griffid (20 Apr 2005)

I'm in the civil service as a clerical officer when I really should be at least an executive officer as I have a degree.  It was bad luck and is a long story but basically I took the post and left my other job because I thought it's a foot in the door and I should be able to move up quickly enough by applying for other jobs on the publicjobs.ie site or for internal promotion.  That was before I knew I would be stuck for 3 years on a commission where there is actually nothing for me to do.  Now most people don't believe me when I say that but honest to god, there is NOTHING to do.  There's only so much initiative you can take when you have no regular duties.  So I recently had an interview for a better job in another part of the civil service and was told (in the feedback form) that I didn't show good innitiative, planning and organisation skills in my examples from my current employment.  They were the best I could come up with without resorting to making it up!!!  So as I'm getting nowhere here, I'm seriously considering a h-dip.  Has anyone been in a similar situation?  What would you advise me?  

Sorry this is so long....


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## dubinamerica (20 Apr 2005)

Could you take a leave of absence from your current position? I've heard it's possible to take a year (or more) off and still have a job guaranteed to come back to within the civil service.  You could then consider taking a hdp for teaching - I know there's one in NUI Galway  - see www.nuigalway.ie for details.. I think there's some around Dublin as well . Where are you located and would you be able to move for college ?


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## griffid (21 Apr 2005)

No, I have to stay working.  You're right about the career break.  Problem with that is the lack of money.  We're about to start with mortgages and all of that stuff and there's no way I could take a year out.  I'd have to do whatever I do as an evening or online course while still living at home (in Dublin) with the mammy and daddy.


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## Unregistered (21 Apr 2005)

Most upsetting thing about this post is that so many of us are paying a proportion of our income, to pay you to do absolutely nothing, and to pay others to interview you, and tell you that you have done absolutely nothing.

This is not an attack on you, as any of us could be in the same situation.

The system sucks, and we are so complacent about it.


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## Unregistered (21 Apr 2005)

Why teaching?


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## griffid (22 Apr 2005)

Tell me about it.  Think I enjoy sitting here doing nothing?  I hate it!  I'm dying to work.  People laugh and say how easy I have it and they'd love to have one day where they get to do nothing.  That just kills me, I want to do stuff.  I can feel my brain getting mushier and mushier every day and I seem to get stupider too as words don't come as easily as they used (which is especially bad seeing as I have a degree in English).  And the worst part is people think I should enjoy having nothing to do!  And don't forget I pay taxes too.  Just as much as anyone else so I'm contributing to my own lethargy.  As for why teaching.  It seems an obvious move for me.  I have an arts degree, as I say one of the subjects is English, and seeing as both my parents and one sister are teachers, it does seem a natural choice.


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## RainyDay (22 Apr 2005)

griffid said:
			
		

> That was before I knew I would be stuck for 3 years on a commission where there is actually nothing for me to do.  Now most people don't believe me when I say that but honest to god, there is NOTHING to do.  There's only so much initiative you can take when you have no regular duties.


I know nothing about Civil Service ways, but it does seem ludicrous that this kind of situation should be allowed to continue. Have you raised this issue formally (i.e. in writing) with your manager, or the HR manager responsible for your area for their response?


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## griffid (22 Apr 2005)

I've been on the transfer list for about 2 and a half years.  One of the transfer officers rang me, about this time last year, to assure me I had not been forgotten but that there just are no transfers available as nobody wants to fill my position down here (who in their right mind would) and so I'm stuck.  I was put down here as my first position in the civil service, "off the street" so to speak.  I was only supposed to be here for 6 months, then the commission report wasn't ready but it was thought it would be finished within the next 3 months.  It wasn't finished then either, they thought it would only be until the following June, then the September was the new date, and on and on.


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## RainyDay (22 Apr 2005)

That doesn't really answer my question. Have you raised a formal issue with your manager/HR telling them that you have little or no work to do?


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## griffid (22 Apr 2005)

they know.  As I say, there's nothing they can do about it.  They can't move me.  Thats all besides the point of my post anyway.  I'm looking for advice on making a career change, not pointers on how to get ahead in a civil service thats overflowing with staff and run by ministers with their heads in the clouds.


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## Unregistered (22 Apr 2005)

In fairness Rainyday, is it not obvious that his manager is probably part of the system that has allows numerous public servants to get paid, by us, to do absolutely nothing?

He would be rocking the proverbial boat.

If someone was to post and say that they were considering going on the dole after they got their degree, so as to take some time-out, we (I included) would all be down their throats, in relation to them being thieves.

I was surprised that there was no such reaction (indication of our complacencey) in this thread.

Indirectly, the Civil Service (we) is paying out more than the dole, to allow people to do.......nothing. And it stinks.


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## ajapale (22 Apr 2005)

Lads and Lassies,

Can we please try to keep to the original posters question?

thanks,
ajapale


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## griffid (22 Apr 2005)

thanks ajapale, I tried to steer it back that way but it didn't work.  

There's no point blaming me for the inadequacies of the system of 'mal-administration' (as Mary Harney put it).  I joined hoping to work.  It hasn't worked out and now I'm trying to get out and do something where I earn my money.  I would have thought the admission would be commended rather than berated.  And not all of us do nothing, there are people run off their feet but who are not allowed have support from those of us who do nothing because "thats how the system works".  

In relation to this:

"In fairness Rainyday, is it not obvious that his manager is probably part of the system that has allows numerous public servants to get paid, by us, to do absolutely nothing?

He would be rocking the proverbial boat."

I'm a she, please don't assume everyone who wants to work is a he.  I'm sure thats not what you meant, I'm just saying.


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## Unregistered (22 Apr 2005)

Sorry about the gender error, and no I actually wasn't berating you but admiring your stance and honesty.

I wish I could assist with teaching advice.........best of luck!


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## RainyDay (22 Apr 2005)

I just find it strange that if you have a real problem with not enough work, why would you not be prepared to 'rock the boat' and get this issue resolved in the interim period, even if you are considering other career options in the meantime. The question isn't whether your manager knows or not - the question is what action will he/she take when the issue is raised to them in writing (with a cc to the HR manager).


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## dubinamerica (23 Apr 2005)

This online course was launched a few years ago (apparently to the dismay of many teachers) -it's a hdip in primary education. There is some time required for on-site work (which speaking as a parent you would hope would be the case !!)

Is it teaching at the primary or secondary level that you are interested in ?


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## Unregistered (25 Apr 2005)

Unregistered said:
			
		

> Sorry about the gender error, and no I actually wasn't berating you but admiring your stance and honesty.
> 
> I wish I could assist with teaching advice.........best of luck!




No problem, fully understand the gender thing and hope you didn't take offense to my pointing it out to you.   Thanks for the good wishes.


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## griffid (25 Apr 2005)

They are well aware of my situation here.  Like I say, I've been on the transfer list for the past couple of years.  They can't get anyone to replace me here so their hands are a bit tied too.  This office is closing soon and I will be put into the department somewhere.  My biggest problem is that I am a clerical officer but am capable of (and should be in) a higher grade, in a management type postition.  This is my main gripe with the system because, for all its "equal opportunities" stuff, it's a very unfair recruitment process.  And then the soul-destroying experience of getting through the lot, thinking I'm in with a good chance of getting to where I should and want to be, only to be told that the job I've been in for 3 years shows I don't have the experience.  I couldn't get the experience here.  Fair dues to whoever got the job but it was heartbreaking for me to know I can do the job but they didn't realise the situation I'm in restricted me.   It's nothing to do with rocking the boat.  Personnel can't do anything for me, they can't force anyone into this position as it would just be unfair so I've been here eversince with all the changing dates and mind-numbng boredom.  Hopefully when we do finally shut up (and it's almost a certainty this time) I will be put somewhere where I can get experience and prove myself but there's still the lack of promotion opportunities blah blah blah so I'm just not sure that this is the career for me.


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## griffid (25 Apr 2005)

dubinamerica said:
			
		

> This online course was launched a few years ago (apparently to the dismay of many teachers) -it's a hdip in primary education. There is some time required for on-site work (which speaking as a parent you would hope would be the case !!)
> 
> Is it teaching at the primary or secondary level that you are interested in ?



Thanks for the link, I'll look into it now!


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## Purple (25 Apr 2005)

Hi Griffid,
I can't offer any better suggestions at thee moment but a friend of mine changed from the civil service to teaching so I'll ask her how she went about it. All I can say at this point is I also admire your stance and wish you well...


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## griffid (26 Apr 2005)

thanks a million.


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## Unregistered (26 Apr 2005)

The situation you describe in the Civil Service is as it's been for as long as anyone can remember.  There are tons of very capable people who took the job thinking their talents would be recognised and rewarded.  They might be recognised but the beureacracy of the organsation doesn't allow for them to be rewarded.  Sure, there are competitions but they're standardised to such a degree that they're at a complete remove from the day-to-day performance of individuals for whom the formal competition doesn't always suit.

You've correctly identified that the sytem is flawed and that it doesn't automatically reward hard work and/or inititiative.  Do yourself a favour and get out while you still have an ounce of enthusiasm.


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## Purple (29 Apr 2005)

Hi griffid,
I talked to me friend but she wasn't much help I'm afraid. She left the civil service and went back full time as her husband’s income and the money they had saved was enough to see them through 'till she started earning again. 
She did say she got a big shock going from a job where she could avoid work for days at a time to one where she was on her own in front of 30 odd kids with nowhere to hide.


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## griffid (29 Apr 2005)

thanks for that Purple.  I'm reconsidering the teaching thing now though.  I think I settled on it as an "easy" option but if I've no real enthusiasm for the job, it wouln't be fair on the children in the class.  Any suggestions anyone would have for an alternative would be greatly appreciated cos I'm very stuck in a tunnel-visioned rut here.


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## mts (29 Apr 2005)

*This is a joke*, get on to your personnel officer today and let them know that there is no work in your section and can you be moved. If you get no joy there get on to the Employee Assistance Officer. What is a replacement required for when there is no work? It is up to yourself to change things.


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## griffid (29 Apr 2005)

If you read my previous posts you'll see that's all explained and I've tried.  There is a position here, it has to be filled.  That simple.  The employee assisstance officer said "keep trying the exams" and I have been.  As you see from my, and other posts, those exams are standardised to the point of the ridiculous.  Telling me to do stuff that I've already said I've tried is, I'm sorry to say, not advice.


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## casiopea (29 Apr 2005)

Hi Griffid.

Sorry to hear about your dilemma. Why dont you run up your cv and start applying for jobs out there?  I know you might feel you are not qualified do somethings but as you said yourself you have a degree, you have the enthusiam and you have the will to work.  Start scanning the job pages for jobs that you think might interest you (what about HR?) and start applying outside the civil service.  If you are interested you could try and do a part time IT course, I believe trinity runs one and at least youll have time during the day to study.  For the record I admire your stance. All the best.

cas.


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## griffid (29 Apr 2005)

Thanks very much Casiopea.  I talked to Grafton Recruitment recently, they basically said I'm unemployable (because of being stagnant for so long here) and should stay where I am cos at least I can't be fired from the Civil Service.  I know I seem like a brick wall here that ye're getting sick of whamming your heads against but I really don't know what to do.


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## mts (29 Apr 2005)

I am also a civil servant and I can understand your frustration but there must be something that can be done. If I were in your position I would begin each day by asking your EO/HEO for something to do, when you come back off break and lunch ask again. This tactic will become very tiresome for your superior and worked very well for me in a previous Dept. btw have you tried the CPSU?


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## RainyDay (29 Apr 2005)

griffid said:
			
		

> Thanks very much Casiopea.  I talked to Grafton Recruitment recently, they basically said I'm unemployable (because of being stagnant for so long here) and should stay where I am cos at least I can't be fired from the Civil Service.


Please don't let an 'off the cuff' comment from a recruitment consultant guide your career. You are not unemployable. The recruitment agency will jump at you once they have the right job for you. Keep searching.


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## Unregistered (30 Apr 2005)

YOur dilemma is typical of that faced by many in the CS.  Going to your EO/HEO might solve the immediate problem, but you're still faced with the beureacracy associated with trying to move through the ranks.  

Essentially, in the CS, one has to wait for things to happen for them rather than being in control of one's own destiny.  It's an appalling situation that stifles enthusiasm and encourages fecklessness.   

You sound like a reasonably enthsiastic person for whom merely getting paid isn't your only goal.  I don't know what stage or life you're at or whether you're constrained by your personal/financial circumstances, but I think you should feed your enthusiasm by looking at some form of third level education that you have an interest in, rather than something you think would get you a high job (if you could achive both so much the better).  Ther are several books available that might give you some guidance in this area (e.g. "what colour is my parachute").  They might prove a very worthwhile investment.

In short, I think you should consider the long-term implications of your immediate future.  For example, moving back with your parents might be a bit of a pain, but balanced against your future potential, it might be a small price to pay.  

If in doubt, take a look around your workplace at the people who have been ther longest.  If you do nothing, you're likely to become like them.  Whether you think this is something you'd aspire to is a question only you can answer.

Good luck on your journey!


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## Unregistered (5 May 2005)

griffid,

why settle on "teaching" as an "easy" option?
have you researched this fully?
have you ever tried any part-time teaching?
seek advice from teachers?

why do you view teaching as your only option?

have a read of "what colour is your parachute?"


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## Unregistered (6 May 2005)

Unregistered said:
			
		

> griffid,
> 
> why settle on "teaching" as an "easy" option?
> have you researched this fully?
> ...



Please read my other posts as most of that is answered in there already.  As for the book, no I haven't read it.


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## griffid (6 May 2005)

mts said:
			
		

> I am also a civil servant and I can understand your frustration but there must be something that can be done. If I were in your position I would begin each day by asking your EO/HEO for something to do, when you come back off break and lunch ask again. This tactic will become very tiresome for your superior and worked very well for me in a previous Dept. btw have you tried the CPSU?



No, I hadn't tried the CPSU.  I asked someone once (I can't remember who though) and they didn't think the union would have any power to help me and it may be more troublesome than helpful.  Hopefully the section I'm in will finish up soon but my biggest worry is that I will be put into a new section which would be just as bad as this one.  I'll ask specifically to be put somewhere busy where I will be able to get the brain working again and gain some good experience but I've no faith or trust in our Personnel unit due to my experience with them so far so I am very aprehensive about this move.  The worst part is I maintain that I should not be a clerical officer.  Call it snobbery if you want but I think I'm too smart and capable to be wasted in a mundane lowly position where I'd spend my days photocopy, filing and typing letters that have been written by someone else, all the while thinking I could have written it better myself.


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## Unregistered (10 May 2005)

griffid said:
			
		

> The worst part is I maintain that I should not be a clerical officer.  Call it snobbery if you want but I think I'm too smart and capable to be wasted in a mundane lowly position where I'd spend my days photocopy, filing and typing letters that have been written by someone else, all the while thinking I could have written it better myself.



I hate to have to break it to you, but the CS is full of people who think they're too good for the positions they occupy.  It should be clear to you by now that the system won't change just because it should.  Do yourself a favour and get out before you get into a worse rut.  Find your interests and pursue them vigourously.

You have to make things happen - it's your choice. You can blame the sytem, but if you choose to remain you'll become part of it.


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## Unregistered (10 May 2005)

Can totally see the catch 22 of it all.
I think if you have access to the net/ phone/ books you can use it to your advantage.
why dont you do a course on line?
why not do a little of your own business(e.g. sell stuff on ebay)
why not use the free time to improve yourself and then move on.
use the situation to your advantage.

I have work, where i am on days one week, nights the other.
the days are busy the nights are easy.
I use the nights to study and research things.
I think the teaching is a easy out as well. you will end up
pissed off with that if the only reason you are doing it is to get out of a rut.
chase what you love and go work at it..
failing that find a career counselor!!!
good luck


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## griffid (19 May 2005)

Thanks to everyone for the advice.


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