# Campaign to abolish VRT is growing



## colin79ie (28 Apr 2010)

I came across this forum recently. It has quadrupeled in membership in a week.

See what you think

[broken link removed]


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## colin79ie (28 Apr 2010)

Apologies. That link doesn't work if you are not a facebook user.

Anyway, due to recent aggressive tactics by customs in Donegal, a group of individuals have set up a forum and are lobbying politicians on their stance on VRT and the free movement of goods etc.


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## Sherman (28 Apr 2010)

Do you honestly think for one second that with the State's finances in the mess they're in, and with taxes due to rise across the board in the next budget, that the Government or Revenue has any inclination to listen to what a bunch of Facebook users want?

By 'aggressive' do you mean enforcing the law?


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## RMCF (28 Apr 2010)

Despite the fact that they are enforcing the laws of the State, it is still accepted that the tax is illegal. Ireland is fined each year by the EU for this illegal tax, but they accept it cos they get more in in VRT than the fine, so it will continue.

Although I do think the day is not far away when the EU simply tells the Gov that they can't do it any more.

Why can I buy a TV/groceries/clothes etc in NI and bring it all across free of charge, but not do it for a car?


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## dereko1969 (28 Apr 2010)

RMCF said:


> Ireland is fined each year by the EU for this illegal tax, but they accept it cos they get more in in VRT than the fine, so it will continue.


 
any chance of a source for that claim?


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## jhegarty (28 Apr 2010)

RMCF said:


> Ireland is fined each year by the EU for this illegal tax,




No it's not.

Don't make stuff up.


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## Mpsox (28 Apr 2010)

A Facebook campaign, wow, I bet the Govt are scared of that. I can just see John Gormley agreeing to cut VRT to encourage more cars on the road !!!


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## MandaC (28 Apr 2010)

It aint gonna happen folks


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## RMCF (28 Apr 2010)

jhegarty said:


> No it's not.
> 
> Don't make stuff up.



I don't make stuff up just for the craic.

I have read it on other websites
[broken link removed]

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2054905397

If other people make stuff up, thats different


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## RMCF (28 Apr 2010)

Ok, what about this story then?
Seems fairly specific, telling you what to quote. Would this work?


*
Gardai and customs 'are knowingly breaking law'- says Irish Drivers Association*

Gardai and customs officers are 'knowingly breaking the law' every time they seize a vehicle in connection with VRT charges, according to the Irish Drivers Association (IDA).
The Association have said the latest car seizure and VRT blitz by Customs and Excise stands in contradiction of both Irish and European Union legislation, a ruling they claim has already been upheld at Letterkenny Court.

This is because, he argued: “A precedent has already been established in the case of my son whose case was heard last January when three charges against him were struck out by Judge Kevin Kilraine. He ruled, as my son stated to the Gardai at the time, that the seizure breached Article 25 of the Treaty of Rome Act (free movement of products within the Union). When they seized his car they also denied him the right of due process, as he was not convicted of any crime yet his car was taken from him.

”Judge Kilraine struck the case out as due process had been denied my son.”

The IDA are already challenging the seizure of citizens’ vehicles related to VRT as infringements of their Constitutional rights to own property already lawfully acquired under Article 15 and Article 43 of the Irish Constitution.

Mr. Doherty continued: “The seizure also breach the principle of proportionality which is covered by the 2008 Finance Act. They can’t take a car worth thousands in lieu of an alleged shortfall of a few hundred euro in VRT.

“All this is totally illegal under both Irish and European law, every seizure last week was a further breach of these and the Gardai know it.”

In order to halt these seizures the IDA has already contacted the Northern Irish Office and the Assembly.

“We hope to take our case to them and make it through them.

“If one State brings the case against another of interference in the single European Market then this can be halted quite quickly. We must make this case through Stormont.”

Meantime if you are stopped in a Vehicle Registration Tax check motorists are advised by the IDA to quote “Articles 15, 38 and 43 of the constitution and ask that they be summoned to court as opposed to having their car seized.”

“These seizure are in my opinion’, Mr. Doherty claimed “extortion at the side of the road.


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## bobalong (28 Apr 2010)

http://www.irishdrivers.org/dates-events/notice-to-all-elected-representatives/

Bob


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## bobalong (28 Apr 2010)

AND

[broken link removed]

"VRT is a means to exploit the Irish motorist, claimed Letterkenny Town Council candidate, Robert 'Brix' Lloyd.

“VRT, the letters by themselves are innocuous as are the words they represent (Vehicle Registration Tax), rather it is the manner in which *the government created an excise tax which contravenes European Law*, in order to once again take monies from the Irish public."

"“Remember all these treaties which the Fianna Failure government has attempted to shove down our throats? Well according to one of the main ones we signed up to, Article 25 of the Treaty of Rome makes it illegal. Yet the Government is using its enforcement arm, Customs and the Gardai, to illegally enforce its will. VRT is a means to exploit the Irish motorist."

Bob


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## z101 (29 Apr 2010)

RMCF said:


> Despite the fact that they are enforcing the laws of the State, it is still accepted that the tax is illegal. Ireland is fined each year by the EU for this illegal tax, but they accept it cos they get more in in VRT than the fine, so it will continue.
> 
> 
> > Can you give a source on this as I dont think this is true. If Ireland has ever been fined for this reason it would be front page news. As I understand it all EU challenge's to VRT have led nowhere. If there were any grey area then they would come up with another tax to take it's place
> ...


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## RMCF (29 Apr 2010)

Ceatharlach said:


> RMCF said:
> 
> 
> > Despite the fact that they are enforcing the laws of the State, it is still accepted that the tax is illegal. Ireland is fined each year by the EU for this illegal tax, but they accept it cos they get more in in VRT than the fine, so it will continue.
> ...


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## Pique318 (30 Apr 2010)

Unfortunately, this seems to set a precedent...hopefully some legalistas can see otherwise:
http://www.europarl.europa.eu/meetdocs/2004_2009/documents/cm/536/536456/536456en.pdf


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## Green (30 Apr 2010)

MandaC said:


> It aint gonna happen folks


 

+ 1. No chance in my opinion...


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