# Tescos carbon footprint?



## Elphaba (15 Jul 2007)

Strawberries for sale in TESCO all the way from USA, about 2 dozen in a plastic container. Just think of all the energy wasted in airmiles, production of plastic containers etc....All for a profit.  In fairness they sell irish ones as well, in a plastic container but only 7 or 8 strawberries in it. I'd eat 7 on my own. Why cant they sell them loose, and have them weighed, in a plain ole
brown bag. I bought a strawberyy plant in Lildls the other day, just have to figure how to grow it...


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## Carpenter (16 Jul 2007)

That kind of stuff bugs me too; I used to buy "fresh" herbs in Tesco until I noted that some of them were being produced in Israel and even further afield; now I purchase  my herbs from a local green grocer and they are grown in County Dublin!


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## Howitzer (16 Jul 2007)

Elphaba said:


> Why cant they sell them loose, and have them weighed, in a plain ole
> brown bag.


 
Because strawberries bruise.



Elphaba said:


> Strawberries for sale in TESCO all the way from USA, about 2 dozen in a plastic container. Just think of all the energy wasted in airmiles, production of plastic containers etc....All for a profit.


 
If you don't buy the USA ones then they'll stop stocking them.


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## Purple (16 Jul 2007)

Elphaba said:


> Strawberries for sale in TESCO all the way from USA, about 2 dozen in a plastic container. Just think of all the energy wasted in airmiles, production of plastic containers etc....All for a profit.



Do you expect them to sell them for a loss? If they did do you think that this would reduce their carbon footprint?


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## Seagull (16 Jul 2007)

The distance a product has traveeled and its carbon footprint do not necessarily correlate. Around Valentines day, roses brought in from Kenya or South africa have a lower carbon footprint than those brought in from Europe or grown locally because they don't need to be grown in heated greenhouses.


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## Caveat (16 Jul 2007)

Elphaba said:


> I bought a strawberyy plant in Lildls the other day, just have to figure how to grow it...


 
...treat as you would tomatoes by the way - including using tomato feed!


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## Ham Slicer (16 Jul 2007)

A little off topic but there was an article in the Times last week and apparently a cow has a bigger carbon footprint than a Land Rover.


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## Purple (16 Jul 2007)

Ham Slicer said:


> A little off topic but there was an article in the Times last week and apparently a cow has a bigger carbon footprint than a Land Rover.


 But you can't eat a Land Rover


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## ClubMan (16 Jul 2007)

Purple said:


> But you can't eat a Land Rover


And a yummy mummy would look a bit odd riding a cow around _D4_.


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## Purple (16 Jul 2007)

ClubMan said:


> And a yummy mummy would look a bit odd riding a cow around _D4_.



Not as funny as a cow.... never mind


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## Elphaba (16 Jul 2007)

Purple said:


> Do you expect them to sell them for a loss? If they did do you think that this would reduce their carbon footprint?



Of course not...just sell local stuff. We've all these companies pointing the finger at us to reduce our carbon footprint, whats tesco doing, I ask you?
Its the unneccesary plastic packaging that gets me. I will bring said plastic container for recycling, it will most likely be flown all the way to the far east, and then exported to the states for it to start all over again. As for cows in 4X4's...now thats another story...


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## ClubMan (16 Jul 2007)

Elphaba said:


> Of course not...just sell local stuff. We've all these companies pointing the finger at us to reduce our carbon footprint, whats tesco doing, I ask you?


Selling stuff that consumers buy?


> Its the unneccesary plastic packaging that gets me. I will bring said plastic container for recycling


So why not do your own bit to reduce or reuse a bit more rather than blaming others?


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## Purple (16 Jul 2007)

Elphaba said:


> Its the unneccesary plastic packaging that gets me. I will bring said plastic container for recycling, it will most likely be flown all the way to the far east, and then exported to the states for it to start all over again.


 Why would they fly it to the far east? Most plastic is not recycled, that which can is recycled in Ireland or at furthest in Europe.


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## Ancutza (16 Jul 2007)

I think you'll find that a very large amount of irish recyclable plastics and other recyclable materials actually make their way to China to be reprocessed.


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## Purple (17 Jul 2007)

Ancutza said:


> I think you'll find that a very large amount of irish recyclable plastics and other recyclable materials actually make their way to China to be reprocessed.



By plane?


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## Elphaba (17 Jul 2007)

ClubMan said:


> Selling stuff that consumers buy?
> 
> So why not do your own bit to reduce or reuse a bit more rather than blaming others?



Its got nothing to do with blame, its about our supermarkets taking more responsible decisions about the produce they stock and their packaging.
A lot of plastic packaging could be re used, rather than re cycled, for instance washing powder, dishwasher powder...if they had a section at tesco where you bring back your container and its refilled...Remember glass milk bottles...leave your empties out...By the way, spare a thought for the poor blokes in china who have to sort through all our smelly plastic, tetra packs and so on....theres no law governing hygiene in transporting goods for recycling...


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## Leo (17 Jul 2007)

Elphaba said:


> A lot of plastic packaging could be re used, rather than re cycled, for instance washing powder, dishwasher powder...if they had a section at tesco where you bring back your container and its refilled...


 
So are you prepared to pay a number of times the current price for such a service? If so, I'd imagine you're in the minority. 



Purple said:


> By plane?


No, by ship, often used as ballast in ships returning to India/China from where we import more than we export. It's questionable how much of this material gets recycled.


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## ClubMan (17 Jul 2007)

Elphaba said:


> Its got nothing to do with blame, its about our supermarkets taking more responsible decisions about the produce they stock and their packaging.


What about consumers making more responsible decisions about what they buy? There are lots of places where you can buy fruit and veg loose for example rather than buying prepackaged stuff in the supermarket. 


> A lot of plastic packaging could be re used, rather than re cycled, for instance washing powder, dishwasher powder...


Yes - but "reduce" is even better where possible. And in many cases it is regardless of what supermarkets may stock by default.


> if they had a section at tesco where you bring back your container and its refilled...Remember glass milk bottles...leave your empties out...By the way, spare a thought for the poor blokes in china who have to sort through all our smelly plastic, tetra packs and so on....theres no law governing hygiene in transporting goods for recycling...


Indeed but I'd be more concerned about his lack of democratic and civil rights to be honest.


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## Elphaba (17 Jul 2007)

Leo said:


> So are you prepared to pay a number of times the current price for such a service? If so, I'd imagine you're in the minority.



How could it be more expensive if they cut out the packaging? Its such a simple idea, bring and fill.....Everythings got so complicated...I think I'll just go down the bottom of the garden and eat worms...and tend my strawberries while I'm at it....


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## jhegarty (17 Jul 2007)

Its simple , next time you are in Tesco look around , someone buys everything you see... if they didn't it wouldn't be stocked...


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## Elphaba (17 Jul 2007)

jhegarty said:


> Its simple , next time you are in Tesco look around , someone buys everything you see... if they didn't it wouldn't be stocked...



So I deduce from that, its the people / consumers of this world that are driving demand and that all Global suppliers will continue to indulge us
as long as we demand it, no matter what the cost?


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## jhegarty (17 Jul 2007)

Elphaba said:


> So I deduce from that, its the people / consumers of this world that are driving demand and that all Global suppliers will continue to indulge us
> as long as we demand it, no matter what the cost?




Thats exactly how a free market works ...


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## ClubMan (17 Jul 2007)

Elphaba said:


> I think I'll just go down the bottom of the garden and eat worms...


I believe that they are a good source of protein alright and you would not be the first...


> Earthworms are also sometimes sold as food for human consumption. Noke is a culinary term used by the Māori of New Zealand to refer to earthworms which are considered delicacies.


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## Leo (18 Jul 2007)

Elphaba said:


> How could it be more expensive if they cut out the packaging? Its such a simple idea, bring and fill...


 
The entire supply chain would have to change to deliver in bulk, supermarkets would need to install bulk bins or some means of distributing these products. Would they need extra staff to dispense/ weigh these products? The floor space required for such a system would render it impossible for all but large supermarkets to cope. 

This has been tried in the past, there are some supermarkets in the US who sell some items in bulk, but I don't think it's anywhere close to going mainstream.


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## Purple (18 Jul 2007)

Leo said:


> The entire supply chain would have to change to deliver in bulk, supermarkets would need to install bulk bins or some means of distributing these products. Would they need extra staff to dispense/ weigh these products? The floor space required for such a system would render it impossible for all but large supermarkets to cope.
> 
> This has been tried in the past, there are some supermarkets in the US who sell some items in bulk, but I don't think it's anywhere close to going mainstream.


Yes but most people who have strong opinions on these issues have little or no understanding of how supply chains work. To them it's a simple black and white issue. If only that was the way the world really worked.
Social engineering is not a duty of supermarkets. Indeed it is not desirable. As was made clear earlier they sell what people want, if people really cared about their carbon footprint they wouldn't buy strawberries that have been flown in from half way around the world and the shops would stop trying to sell them.


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## ClubMan (18 Jul 2007)

_Elphaba _- why not head out to one of those places that allow you to pick your own strawberries thereby cutting out as many middlemen and as much packaging as possible?

Have to agree with _Purple _- and, it seems to me, some people with supposedly strong views on such matters often buy from supermarkets anyway (for convenience etc.) and then give vent to their cognitive dissonance by posting on _AAM_, phoning _Joe Duffy_, writing to the _Irish Times _etc. It's a bit like the whole "rip off Ireland" thing where the guy pays €10 for a tea and scone and then starts moaning about it afterwards instead of complaining about high prices at the time and exercising his right to shop around and take positive action against the perceived wrongs of the situation.


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## Leo (18 Jul 2007)

ClubMan said:


> _Elphaba _- why not head out to one of those places that allow you to pick your own strawberries thereby cutting out as many middlemen and as much packaging as possible?


 
And remember to cycle out so as to minimise the carbon footprint of the trip!


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## z107 (18 Jul 2007)

> now I purchase  my herbs from a local green grocer and they are grown in County Dublin!



Many of our herbs are grown in our back garden.

I was reading an interesting article during the week about polution and pesticides. Apparently, in China, people are now looking for veg that has insect teeth marks in them. This is a good indicator of the amount of pesticides used to grow the crop.


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## Elphaba (18 Jul 2007)

Leo said:


> And remember to cycle out so as to minimise the carbon footprint of the trip!



Phew...I'm knackered.....just back from the strawberry fields, I attached
a wheelbarrow to the back of my bike and loaded it with strawberries...
I passed Tesco on the way....


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## Purple (19 Jul 2007)

I hope your wheelbarrow is made from recycled materials.
When you are finished with your bike it can be recycled as well!


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## Elphaba (19 Jul 2007)

O.K....O.K! Yes I may be in the minority and your comments have been interesting (except for Clubman's scone anaolgy??) I did a bit of research
Most countries recycling rate has doubled in the past three years, as the volume of waste has increased. For many materials the process of turning them back into useful raw materials is straightforward except for plastics. The only 2 types are recycled a lot are PET and HDPE. Often plastic is down-cycled into other products such as drain pipes and carpet fibres. Plastics also used for cars, tv's and computers, as this type of plastic contain toxins, can be difficult to recycle. Last month Steve Jobs (Apple)
detailed Apple's plans to eliminate the use of toxic substances in its products. A business, with a social conscience...yes they exist! As do,
other companies, namely..Starbucks, Estée Lauder and Wal Mart the worlds biggest retailer is reducing the amount of packaging it uses. Recycling
should be taken into account at the design stage (Cradle to Cradle-book)
'All materials should either be able to return to the soil safley or be recycled indefinately.' If done right, and I think we are still in the early stages, recycling saves energy and raw materials and reduces pollution...
By the way England is struggling with a mountain of green bottles..


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## ClubMan (19 Jul 2007)

Elphaba said:


> Most countries recycling rate has doubled in the past three years, as the volume of waste has increased.


What about each countrys' rate of *reduction *of consumption of the relevant materials? 


> Last month Steve Jobs (Apple)
> detailed Apple's plans to eliminate the use of toxic substances in its products. A business, with a social conscience...yes they exist!


 Or maybe just another of the many businesses meeting the stipulations of RoHS and the like?


> As do,
> other companies, namely..Starbucks, Estée Lauder and Wal Mart the worlds biggest retailer is reducing the amount of packaging it uses.


 You don't have to look to far for controversy about Apple, Starbucks, Estée Lauder and Wal Mart just in case you think that these companies are somehow perfect.


> By the way England is struggling with a mountain of green bottles..


 And to think they used to only have ten!


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## Elphaba (21 Jul 2007)

What about each country's rate of reduction of consumption of the relevant materials?

Do you know of any individuals that actively reduce their consumption of all manner of products from electrical goods to packaged foods? I dont, therefore its up to government and big business, to encourage reduction, but I dont hold out much hope. Your links very interesting...especially Esteé Lauder who's brands include the horrendously expensive MAC and Jo Malone, also Bobbi Brown, Clinique and Aveda - All you MAC addicts out there take a look at this Youtube clip of this very ugly woman (Sara Bernhard) advertising Mac lip products, http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=64SnLJ8qPM4 

I will continue to reduce, reuse wherever possible, I have especially reduced my social conscience.


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## ClubMan (21 Jul 2007)

Elphaba said:


> What about each country's rate of reduction of consumption of the relevant materials?


Because it's *reduce*, reuse, recycle - and reduce is given primary position for a reason.


> Do you know of any individuals that actively reduce their consumption of all manner of products from electrical goods to packaged
> foods?


We try to avoid products (especially foodstuffs) with unnecessary packaging. For meat, fish and fruit/veg it's easy - buy in the butchers, fishmongers or fruit/veg outlet/market stall rather than the supermarket and you get minimal packaging that way.


> I dont, therefore its up to government and big business, to encourage reduction, but I dont hold out much hope.


Everybody - including the individual - has a role to play.


> this very ugly woman


How petty... 




> I will continue to reduce, reuse wherever possible, I have especially reduced my social conscience.


Huh!? 

By the way - just curious but did you buy the strawberries mentioned in your first post?


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## Elphaba (22 Jul 2007)

I am merely making the point about Corporate social responsibility
and yes doing what we can to individually reduce & recycle, Why you have to argue with this I do not know. Taking a shot at the leader of a huge corporate brand is nothing, when she herself was most offensive in her add. By the way and I quote....."CEO Terry Leahy's recent announcement of its ten point 'Tesco in the Community' programme is the reflection of a growing realisation that the trust implied by that fact is now beginning to be eroded away. Customers still seek out the Tesco shopping experience, but they are beginning to feel uneasy with themselves for doing so. That is a warning sign that any retailer aiming to survive and thrive will pay heed to."

3 of their 10 point plan is..
1.Halve energy use by 2010
2 Double customer recycling by 2008
3 Help small suppliers by holding open days across the UK.
You can see the rest of it at [broken link removed]

O.k Clubman, I confess, I am guilty, I bought the strawberries, 
big american juicy ones, its a free market, I was curious, they were delicious,  considering they travelled such a long way. Yes, I care about the environment or I wouldn't have bothered posting, but aren't we all guilty to some extent, like kids in a sweet shop...We will go down in history as the consumerist age....


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## ClubMan (22 Jul 2007)

Elphaba said:


> O.k Clubman, I confess, I am guilty, I bought the strawberries,


So you *are *like the guy with the €10 coffee and scone after all?


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## EvilDoctorK (25 Jul 2007)

As has been noted on this thread but I think is worth restating ... the transport of goods as part of supermarket supply chains is very efficient (you fit a lot of strawberries in a 40ft truck etc.).  Another point is that a lot of employment in developing countries in areas where there's no much else going on  is supported through "market gardening" for supermarkets.

I have heard it said (and could well imagine it to be true) that by far the largest portion of the "field to table" carbon footprint of goods bought in Tescos is that produced by the car that the consumer drives to and from the supermarket !


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## gonk (25 Jul 2007)

EvilDoctorK said:


> As has been noted on this thread but I think is worth restating ... the transport of goods as part of supermarket supply chains is very efficient (you fit a lot of strawberries in a 40ft truck etc.). Another point is that a lot of employment in developing countries in areas where there's no much else going on is supported through "market gardening" for supermarkets.


 
I've a friend who's an airline pilot and when I commented negatively on the practice of flying baby sweet corn, mangetout, etc. up from Africa, he said that in the main, the planes bringing these to Europe are cargo aircraft. They would have brought cargo from Europe to Africa and if they didn't bring something back, they would be returning empty, but with much the same fuel consumption and environmental impact. And, as noted above, it does provide local employment & income in these countries.


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## ClubMan (25 Jul 2007)

EvilDoctorK said:


> I have heard it said (and could well imagine it to be true) that by far the largest portion of the "field to table" carbon footprint of goods bought in Tescos is that produced by the car that the consumer drives to and from the supermarket !


A bit like the carbon footprint of all those people who drive to the recycling facilities to do their good deed?


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## joe sod (26 Jul 2007)

recycling will become an academic debate in time, this is because plastics, paper etc will become so costly that recycling will not be a moral argument but will be essential, also some items that are grown or manufactured in far off places may again have to be produced close to home because transport and material costs will outweigh labour costs. A great levelling is hapening and chinese labour will not always be cheaper than western. In fact old landfills could be reopened to reclaim the materials thrown away in the past again not for moral reasons but out of necessity


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## Purple (26 Jul 2007)

joe sod said:


> recycling will become an academic debate in time, this is because plastics, paper etc will become so costly that recycling will not be a moral argument but will be essential, also some items that are grown or manufactured in far off places may again have to be produced close to home because transport and material costs will outweigh labour costs. A great levelling is hapening and chinese labour will not always be cheaper than western. In fact old landfills could be reopened to reclaim the materials thrown away in the past again not for moral reasons but out of necessity


Why will paper become so expensive?
What not convert the ?


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## ClubMan (26 Jul 2007)

joe sod said:


> rIn fact old landfills could be reopened to reclaim the materials thrown away in the past again not for moral reasons but out of necessity


Open cast tiphead mining - it's the way of the future folks. Buy your shares here!!!


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## jhegarty (26 Jul 2007)

ClubMan said:


> Open cast tiphead mining - it's the way of the future folks. Buy your shares here!!!



Its actually quite common in some poorer areas of world.... eg. india, you can make a good living (by local stardards) from a tip....


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## ClubMan (26 Jul 2007)

Thanks - I'll bear it in mind for when the money from the electronics/software industries dries up in this part of the world.


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## Purple (26 Jul 2007)

jhegarty said:


> Its actually quite common in some poorer areas of world.... eg. india, you can make a good living (by local stardards) from a tip....


Rubbish


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## Elphaba (26 Jul 2007)

Purple - Why will paper become so expensive?

Its already got expensive, and will continue, due to increase in price of wood, and fuel. 

Clubman, this is an economic debate,
Why are you so cynical?  
Did you have a bad experience at the bottle bank?


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## zag (26 Jul 2007)

elphaba - some posters on this site are of the opinion (which they are entitled to be) that some views are not backed by sufficient science and so don't add up and so they seem to think that people who advocate them are poor misguided souls or some such equivalent.  The level of debate reminds me of university debating clubs, can't think why . . .

Examples of some of these general types of topics -
organic food
global warming
recycling
renewable energy sources
gm crops

The debates that go on here tend to highlight the cost and failings of 'green' alternatives, but quite often fail to acknowledge the hidden but real cost of not considering some of the green issues.  For example people will say it costs money to recycle glass, so why not just stick it in a landfill since it is cheaper ?  Then they will put on their debating club colours and point out that driving to the recycling bank will increase your carbon emissions . . . ho, ho, where did they think of that one ?  It's a bit old at this stage.  They will also point out that for all the <whatever> recycled by people in Ireland there are several huge countries in Asia dumping 1,000 times as much in their lakes, so why do the Irish even try ?

The answer (which is obvious to some of us) is that if people don't start pushing for some change, start initiating change (stop buying that stuff in Tesco, etc . . .) then the status quo will be maintained.  If you start from the position that you are not happy with the status quo (but large comapnies and their shareholders are) then it is reasonably clear that you need to start making some changes.

z


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## ClubMan (26 Jul 2007)

Elphaba said:


> Clubman, this is an economic debate,
> Why are you so cynical?
> Did you have a bad experience at the bottle bank?


Huh!?


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## ClubMan (26 Jul 2007)

zag said:


> Then they will put on their debating club colours and point out that driving to the recycling bank will increase your carbon emissions . . . ho, ho, where did they think of that one ?  It's a bit old at this stage.


I wasn't aware that it was "old" but are you actually insinuating that it's not true or something?


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## zag (27 Jul 2007)

No, I'm not insinuating that it's not true.  I recognise that driving (in the normal sense of the word) produces emissions.  This is not in doubt.  However, I do not accept it as a reason not to drive somewhere to recycle.  I accept it as a cost of the activity, and a cost which can be minimised by consolidating the recyclables and minimising the number of trips to the centre.

z


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## ubiquitous (27 Jul 2007)

From reading this depressing thread, I can't help worrying that there are a lot of people out there who won't be happy until we're back in the Stone Age...


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## simplyjoe (27 Jul 2007)

zag said:


> No, I'm not insinuating that it's not true.  I recognise that driving (in the normal sense of the word) produces emissions.  This is not in doubt.  However, I do not accept it as a reason not to drive somewhere to recycle.  I accept it as a cost of the activity, and a cost which can be minimised by consolidating the recyclables and minimising the number of trips to the centre.
> 
> z


 
Can you quantify the damage done driving there vrs the goodness done by re-cycling. I have an employee who is always going on to me about recycling, I do some but apperently not enough. The same employee drives a 2.4 litre diesel car and has every gadget in the books from flatscreen TVs to a powerboat. Some pseudo greens need to analyse their own actions before preaching to others. In any event the Irish are not the main culprits talk to the yanks.


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## ClubMan (27 Jul 2007)

zag said:


> No, I'm not insinuating that it's not true.  I recognise that driving (in the normal sense of the word) produces emissions.  This is not in doubt.  However, I do not accept it as a reason not to drive somewhere to recycle.  I accept it as a cost of the activity, and a cost which can be minimised by consolidating the recyclables and minimising the number of trips to the centre.


Chances are, the many people who can feasibly get to a recycling facility through other means (often walking) would be better off doing that. But spreading the cost over a larger load is no harm either. 

I still don't understand your "ho, ho" comments about this point being "old".

By the way - what's the *abnormal *sense of the word "driving"?


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## zag (27 Jul 2007)

Driving a non-internal combustion engine based vehicle would be abnormal.

z


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