# Pornography - views?



## Caveat (16 Aug 2007)

_(mods feel free to remove if this is inappropriate or contentious)_

Was wondering how people on AAM feel about pornography?

For the purposes of this I'm talking about only what is legal.
I'm not interested in personal tastes/habits etc just how people feel about it.

It seems that every now and then the papers/magazines have short features and the conclusions seem to oscillate between:

It is immoral and exploits women

or

It's a relatively harmless vice and sure most men and women enjoy it.

I've no idea where the real consensus lies - I'd be particularly interested to hear what women think?

Sometimes I get the idea that it is one of last conversational taboos and that many more people than we might imagine enjoy it.


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## Purple (16 Aug 2007)

I'd never admit to liking it


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## The_Banker (16 Aug 2007)

One man/womans fantasy is anothers porn...

In the Ireland of the 50s Page 3 would be considered porn but today it is considered harmless.
I remember a teacher in our primary school (about 25 years ago) telling us (the pupils) that we were going to hell because we watched Top of the Tops and the seductive dancers of Hot Gossip and Legs & Co that often featured on the show was pornographic.
Because what one person thinks as harmless and another thinks is filth there will never be a consensus of opinion.


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## gonk (16 Aug 2007)

The_Banker said:


> I remember a teacher in our primary school (about 25 years ago) telling us (the pupils) that we were going to hell because we watched Top of the Tops and the seductive dancers of Hot Gossip and Legs & Co that often featured on the show was pornographic.


 
Quite right too! It all went downhill after Pan's People left the show . . .


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## Caveat (16 Aug 2007)

The_Banker said:


> One man/womans fantasy is anothers porn...
> 
> In the Ireland of the 50s Page 3 would be considered porn but today it is considered harmless.
> I remember a teacher in our primary school (about 25 years ago) telling us (the pupils) that we were going to hell because we watched Top of the Tops and the seductive dancers of Hot Gossip and Legs & Co that often featured on the show was pornographic.
> Because what one person thinks as harmless and another thinks is filth there will never be a consensus of opinion.


 
Ok I suppose 'consensus' was a badly chosen word - what I'm getting at is the 'moral barometer' of today. Are we perhaps nearing (or at) the stage where a lot of people are sufficiently desensitized that as a nation, on the whole, we just don't really have a problem with pornography? Of course there will always be the 'morally outraged' of any society but I wonder how your teacher feels now for example? 

There are quite a lot of sex shops in provincial towns now as well as Dublin/Cork/Galway which don't seem to have attracted much protest as far as I can see. A lot has changed in even 10-15 years I think.

BTW, most people that I know well, male & female, admit to viewing porn at least occasionally if not regularly.


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## MrMan (16 Aug 2007)

I would say that it is pretty mainstream but it is unusual in that, as a mainstreamish product it would be still deemed distasteful to discuss it in a mixed group of sober people.


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## contemporary (16 Aug 2007)

each to their own so long as the parties are consenting and over 18


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## z108 (16 Aug 2007)

It's no substitute for the real thing. Like a lot of things whether its harmful or not depends on the individual. If someone isnt playng with a full deck then I doubt porn can be blamed rather than a fault of mother nature.
I wouldnt even glance for more than 10 seconds at a playboy on the top shelf of a local spar. Its not news to me. What stands out to me would be people who make  a spectacle of themselves protesting against such things while all around us both at home and abroad much worse things happen than  adults voluntarily being paid a fortune to show us something complete predictable.


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## almo (16 Aug 2007)

I've always felt kind of embarassed, which is mental probably, but it kicked off with a school trip to Holland 20 years ago and just being turned off by the whole scene in Amsterdam.  I hate, in Easons, when I'm looking (anyone who's been to the Blanch centre can attest to this) along the sports section and then noticing a playboy lying on top of a copy of World Soccer.


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## Gordanus (16 Aug 2007)

Hate seing the magazines in shops.  But then I'm a woman.  How would you blokes like to go into a shop and see a row of blatant photos of dingly-danglies?  (only women don't tend to be that interested.....)


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## Purple (16 Aug 2007)

Gordanus said:


> Hate seing the magazines in shops.  But then I'm a woman.  How would you blokes like to go into a shop and see a row of blatant photos of dingly-danglies?  (only women don't tend to be that interested.....)


I take it that by dingly-danglies you are referring to genetalia? If so I am not aware of any top shelf magazines that show female genetalia on their front cover. Having said that I don't buy them or look out for them so I could be wrong! 
Personally I don't see too much harm in it. There are far worse things for sale in shops.

I also agree that whatever consenting adults get up to in private is their own business.


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## ClubMan (16 Aug 2007)

Caveat said:


> For the purposes of this I'm talking about only what is legal.


Can you clarify what exactly is legal in _Ireland _so? It's never been clear to me. I did read recently that any adult store selling videos that have not been rated by the censor is breaking the law and there is no rating that could be applied under the censor's rules to most ("hard core") porn. So presumably the vast majority of adult stores (and their customers?) are breaking the law?

My own view is a fairly standard libertarian one on this and most other matters - consenting adults should be allowed to do whatever they want as long as it doesn't harm the person/property of any non-consenting others. Obviously the prevailing laws of the land may also circumscribe on what is possible/legal in this context.


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## ACA (17 Aug 2007)

> originally posted by Caveat
> I'd be particularly interested to hear what women think?


Why? (just wondering! )

From a woman.
Majority of porn doesn't bother me in the least, mags or films. Some of the films can be very entertaining, especially the dubbed ones, hilarious listening to an interpreter trying to sound sexy and stretch out the words to fit the facial expressions!!


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## almo (17 Aug 2007)

I've only ever seen one episode when i was home, at the insistence of my sister, but you're probably talking about "Badly Dubbed Porn", which was funny for about 2 minutes then just got a little tired. 



ACA said:


> Why? (just wondering! )
> 
> From a woman.
> Majority of porn doesn't bother me in the least, mags or films. Some of the films can be very entertaining, especially the dubbed ones, hilarious listening to an interpreter trying to sound sexy and stretch out the words to fit the facial expressions!!


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## Caveat (17 Aug 2007)

ClubMan said:


> Can you clarify what exactly is legal in _Ireland _so?


 
No I can't, but I was referring to the obviously illegal stuff (paedophilia, bestiality). But I think you are right about the censor (supposedly) having to consider each 'item' of pornography in isolation.



ACA said:


> Why? (just wondering! )


 
I suppose it's just that it seems to be mostly women who are bothered by it?


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## foxylady (17 Aug 2007)

Asa woman I would say that I viewed it several times and find it harmless enough once as said before its consenting adults (not animals and other such things) also if you've seen one you've seen them all so it can get quite boring.


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## sinbadsailor (17 Aug 2007)

By no means a replacement for actually doing it....harmless, fun, and can be a healthy addition to any sexual relationship


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## ragazza (17 Aug 2007)

It depends on what you call porn.

I think that some stuff is pretty innocuous and harmless, like the late night films on TV which have people getting it on, but dont show anything too graphic, and playboy magazine.

I do think harder-core porn exploits women - on a trip to Amsterdam my eyes were opened - dvds of heavily pregnant women with donkeys etc. Even though they are over 18, and presumeably consented to making the dvds, I still feel that they're being exploited.
I also think most porn is aimed at guys tastes.


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## MrMan (17 Aug 2007)

I don't think women are exploited in gay porn!, it really is impossible to say who is exploited the most cause you look at the 'stars' and wonder are they happy doing this or do they view it as a job with great pay. My own view is that I don't see how a young girl could enter the profession and stay in it for say 10 years and leave it as a balanced individual. there are some tough people out there who can do anything in the name of money, but I would imagine that most ladies and men for that matter do not enhance their lives through working in the industry. And finally I would say it's safe to assume that there is a fair share  of people that are in the industry but don't want to be there


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## ClubMan (17 Aug 2007)

ragazza said:


> heavily pregnant women with donkeys etc. Even though they are over 18, and presumeably consented to making the dvds, I still feel that they're being exploited.


Not to mention the women!


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## foxylady (17 Aug 2007)

ClubMan said:


> Not to mention the women!


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## Gabriel (17 Aug 2007)

ragazza said:


> heavily pregnant women with donkeys etc



...throw in some midgets and you've got your standard David Lynch movie


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## Betsy Og (17 Aug 2007)

surely the taboo is more about what one might, or might not!, be doing while consuming this material ..... presumably while alone at the time.

That the subject of masturbation, ok, I've typed it!!, has become less taboo is due in no small part to the American Pie genre of films where its not taboo among the characters and indeed they give advice to each other in this regard (American Pie 2 lubricant & adhesive mix up).

Both this subject and the initial topic are relatively harmless, I'd go so far as to say healthy in moderation, to a normal well adjusted person but there'll always be those who over indulge. I think its a chicken and egg argument as to whether, if there was no porn there would be no over indulgence, or those of the mind would overindulge anyway & just have to use their imaginations if there was no porn.

I'd agree that porn does get boring fairly quick & of course isnt a patch on the real thing & for this reason I find the idea of lapdancing / strip shows as utterly pointless. If t'lads head in on a stag then thats a bit of a laugh but its hardly original. 

On an unrelated note, which was discussed here before, I'd be in favour of legalising and heavily regulating prostitution rather than ignore a situation where the vulnerable are the prey of criminals. - This is as someone who hasnt, nor intends, to avail of such services.


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## ClubMan (17 Aug 2007)

Betsy Og said:


> I think its a chicken and egg argument


That must be real niche stuff?


> On an unrelated note


I agree that this issue is unrelated so why raise it here?


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## Caveat (17 Aug 2007)

ClubMan said:


> That must be real niche stuff?
> 
> 
> 
> I agree that this issue is unrelated so why raise it here?


 
well it's probably not totally unrelated in that for many, both 'careers' are often a last resort for the dislocated/disadvantaged.  And both involve the selling of sex and provoke moral controversy.


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## Betsy Og (17 Aug 2007)

> I agree that this issue is unrelated so why raise it here?


 
hmm, I thought I'd flush out the Pedantic Pats with that one. While the topic is headed up "Pornography - views" - its clear from the posters subsequent comments that they are interested in the moral barometer, as they put it, of the country & in particular with regards to matters sexual.

TBH the chicken & egg porn is very overrated, more hard boiled than hard core ...groan


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## Caveat (17 Aug 2007)

Betsy Og said:


> I find the idea of lapdancing / strip shows as utterly pointless.


 
...as do I by the way.  If you are male, this opinion is regarded with suspicion as far as I can see.  

I reckon it's this bizarre unwritten male law that men can go to these shows or look at/laugh at porn in a group - but God forbid you _ever_ admit you look at porn in private - because that means you masturbate and therefore there is something wrong with you, because real men don't need to masturbate as they can get the real thing whenever they want!


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## Pique318 (17 Aug 2007)

Tell ya one thing, the names they 'ahem' come up with are class.


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## foxylady (17 Aug 2007)

That the subject of masturbation, ok, I've typed it!!, has become less taboo is due in no small part to the American Pie genre of films where its not taboo among the characters and indeed they give advice to each other in this regard (American Pie 2 lubricant & adhesive mix up).

Its still seems that a lot of women however would never admit to it.


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## Betsy Og (17 Aug 2007)

foxylady said:


> Its still seems that a lot of women however would never admit to it.


 
Not among that group as the good ladies of the band Divignals (or something that sounds like that) who repeatedly proclaimed that, with reference to thoughts about a particular individual, "I touch myself".

Taboo busting stuff for a Friday evening


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## Purple (17 Aug 2007)

I way my first porn film at 15. To be honest after about 5 minutes I are board stiff


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## Gabriel (17 Aug 2007)

Purple said:


> I way my first porn film at 15. To be honest after about 5 minutes I are board stiff



To be honest it looks like you typed that with one hand


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## Purple (17 Aug 2007)

Gabriel said:


> To be honest it looks like you typed that with one hand


Yea, well you shouldn't be looking in my window


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## Sn@kebite (17 Aug 2007)

Men are in the vids too! And they are not being "exploited"?! - are the views of porn being the exploitation of women biased? And people see women as the victims of men's grotesque behaviour?


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## Jaid79 (17 Aug 2007)

sign said:


> I wouldnt even glance for more than 10 seconds at a playboy on the top shelf of a local spar.


 
Why, would you be afraid to be caught looking? LOL 

Jaid


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## Jaid79 (17 Aug 2007)

foxylady said:


> That the subject of masturbation, ok, I've typed it!!, has become less taboo is due in no small part to the American Pie genre of films where its not taboo among the characters and indeed they give advice to each other in this regard (American Pie 2 lubricant & adhesive mix up).
> 
> Its still seems that a lot of women however would never admit to it.


 
What about you foxylady

Seriously, I think porn is fine and most people have been exposed to it in one form or another and they think the same. Its just a shame that exposure to porn is starting at such a young age, mainly due to the internet.

Jaid


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## almo (18 Aug 2007)

The subject of lapdancing and strip shows is always one that gets my goat (no asides clubman, save it for Dalyer) - how come when men go to sucha  club it's "seedy, profane" when clubs open you have the "save the children" brigade out in force.  Yet.....you get male strippers and chippendales and such and for women it's a great laugh!  I always see a huge difference in public views on this, and behaviour.  A guy I boxed with in Germany was a male dancer in different clubs and he was always covered in non-gym related cuts and bruises from women grabbing him.  He complained and said that if it were men doing it to the women dancers in the club they'd experience a head dive and follow up in the back alley.


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## Purple (18 Aug 2007)

Sn@kebite said:


> Men are in the vids too!




Not in the vids I have...er, em, have seen! Yes, that's what I meant.


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## Bluebells (19 Aug 2007)

Pornography will be fine when then there are no victims. Until then it remains a sinister industry.


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## car (19 Aug 2007)

> Pornography will be fine when then there are no victims. Until then it remains a sinister industry.


[SIZE=-1]from princetons def. of pornography: _creative activity (writing or pictures or films etc.) of no literary or artistic value other than to stimulate sexual desire._

I take your point on the films or photo images be they MF, BBW, FF, MMF, MM, MMMMMF, midgets, donkeys, S&M, piebalds or whatever your flava is, as they involve real people (or donkeys) who may have had no other option in their lives but to degrade themselves to earn money.   

But then is written or drawn erotica porn ok as thats just fantasy creation?  

Is everyone aware that  the porn industry has driven the  majority of tech changes over the last 10 years including streaming video and audio, credit card verification, age verification.  So just think, if there was no porn, thered be no ryanair.com, no youtube.com and no amazon.com.  So think porn and more websites will come into your life.  Or something...  [/SIZE]


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## ClubMan (19 Aug 2007)

car said:


> [SIZE=-1]they involve real people (or donkeys) who may have had no other option in their lives but to degrade themselves to earn money.


May? I would imagine that most if not all of the people involved do have other options just that they do not choose them for one reason or another. Very few people have no options as to how they earn their living or spend their time.
[/SIZE]


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## MugsGame (19 Aug 2007)

car said:


> [SIZE=-1]Is everyone aware that  the porn industry has driven the  majority of tech changes over the last 10 years including streaming video and audio, credit card verification, age verification.  So just think, if there was no porn, thered be no ryanair.com, no youtube.com and no amazon.com.[/SIZE]



No, I wasn't aware porn was the main driver for these pivotal tech changes. How did you become aware of this astonishing fact? (If I had to pick a single technology driver, I would have said war.).


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## ninsaga (19 Aug 2007)

MugsGame said:


> No, I wasn't aware porn was the main driver for these pivotal tech changes. How did you become aware of this astonishing fact? (If I had to pick a single technology driver, I would have said war.).



Apparantly - that's what happened - even as I understand, it was the porn industry's adoption of the VHS format that led to the demise of betamax at the time!


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## foxylady (20 Aug 2007)

Jaid79 said:


> What about you foxylady
> 
> Seriously, I think porn is fine and most people have been exposed to it in one form or another and they think the same. Its just a shame that exposure to porn is starting at such a young age, mainly due to the internet.
> 
> Jaid


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## car (20 Aug 2007)

> No, I wasn't aware porn was the main driver for these pivotal tech changes. How did you become aware of this astonishing fact? (If I had to pick a single technology driver, I would have said war.).



I was about to say that there isnt one driver for tech changes ( web and comms based anyway), but there is and thats money.  Military and porn industry has lots of both.  throws up a lot of links.


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