# Paying an architect a set fee



## Shawady (13 May 2009)

Does anyone know if all architects calculate their fees as a percentage of the cost of a job, or do some just charge a set fee?
We want to convert a garage and possibly build above it. There is no foundation or extension work so I assume it would not be a huge job, but I would like to get a professional to draw up plans and inspect job if the price was reasonable.

Any comments appreciated.


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## runner (13 May 2009)

With half the profession redundant, you are in the driving seat re fees.


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## dinjoecurry (13 May 2009)

Architects charge both ways but in today's economy ask for a fixed price and shop around it should be inexpensive does not seem like a big job


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## daithi72 (13 May 2009)

If its not much re stress etc. you could just get a draghtsman to draw it up which should be cheaper. I recently got an architect to do one for me for an 1100 sq ft 2 story extention submit for planning etc and he is currently doing another set of drawings which have much more detail than whats required for planning because im doing a self build for a set fee of about 2.5% of the estimated total cost to me


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## Sconhome (13 May 2009)

You need to have the garage foundations inspected before assuming that they are suitable for building a second storey on top. You will need to know that the person doing the inspection has the correct liability insurance as well as the necessary experience. It is not just about doing a set of planning drawings.


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## sallins (13 May 2009)

Suggest you use qualified and experienced architect and agree set fee with him against a defined scope of work.


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## rekhib (13 May 2009)

Slightly off-topic here but could anybody recommend an architect based in Dublin for submitting OPP for the development of a site, ideally charging a set-fee. I'm not sure if it's relevant (size of firm &c.) but I would be looking at building a few houses.


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## Shawady (14 May 2009)

Sconhome said:


> You need to have the garage foundations inspected before assuming that they are suitable for building a second storey on top. You will need to know that the person doing the inspection has the correct liability insurance as well as the necessary experience. It is not just about doing a set of planning drawings.


 
Yes , this is a good point. The other houses in the estate that have done this have not needed foundation work, but the last person to get it done needed to provide an engineer's letter to the council before they would grant planning.
Could an architect do the same thing or would it have to be a structural engineer?


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## Sconhome (14 May 2009)

An architect will ususally defer to a structural engineer as the professional indemnity insurance is critical to this opinion. Anyone can say 'you should be fine' (architect, builder etc) but you need an engineer to say 'you will be fine'.
Ask for a copy of their insurances and file carefully, just in case.


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## Shawady (14 May 2009)

Sconhome said:


> An architect will ususally defer to a structural engineer as the professional indemnity insurance is critical to this opinion. Anyone can say 'you should be fine' (architect, builder etc) but you need an engineer to say 'you will be fine'.
> Ask for a copy of their insurances and file carefully, just in case.


 
Thanks for the advice.


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## Love2travel (15 May 2009)

My husband is an engineer and could do it for fixed price if interested?


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## CharlieR (16 May 2009)

We are building in Cork and have an architect on a fixed fee for the planning and construction drawings. 

Providing an excellent service so far.


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## onq (18 May 2009)

Set fees can be appropriate for both the architect and client on smaller jobs, as these can be even more time demanding pro-rata than bigger jobs.

Don't be surprised if the architect sets limits on his services though packages of drawings, only limited no. of inspections, everything else is an extra], because they really can be black holes.

Your assumption that there is no foundation work assumes that there is a foundation there already.

Your assumption that there will be no extension work may be forgetting that stairs take up more space proportional to the overall space, on a small footprint building - one 900mm stairs can service a 1st floor of 20 metres or 100 metres.

You may also be forgetting that all new dwellings require visitable downstairs WC's and most people like Utility spaces off the kitchen.

And then there is the whole area of fire-proofing, which may mitigate against open mezzanines above sources of fire without an alternative excape route.

The days of the shower and WC a mouse couldn't use in the mezzanine sleeping area over the kitchen seem to be passing fast.

So consider access, circulation and service areas when you write the brief.

Finally, there is talk of all dwellings needing to be energy-zero after December 2018 or thereabouts - Brussels again - this may well affect your specification and require additional site work to put in a hear pump, for example.

After all, you don't want to invest money in a building that could look seriously lame in the marketplace after 2020, do you?



Food for thought perhaps.


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## Shawady (18 May 2009)

onq said:


> Food for thought perhaps.


 
Thanks for comments. Some interesting points.


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## solidrockman (19 May 2009)

I'm looking at getting an extension built at the back of my house which would not need planning permission.

Can anyone please confirm a couple of things for me...

(a) what approvals/cerificates do I need for my own benefit if selling the place later?
(b) who exactly can give me these things?


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## onq (19 May 2009)

solidrockman said:


> I'm looking at getting an extension built at the back of my house which would not need planning permission.
> 
> Can anyone please confirm a couple of things for me...
> 
> ...



-----------------------------------------------------

Before saying anything let me advise you - accept nothing and always check advice freely given.

*Exempted Development*

There are a lot of factors to consider when extending a property.

To start the ball rolling; -



 Have you designed it yet?
Have you commissioned a set of drawings for it yet?
How do you know it will be compliant with the Building Regulations?
Are there any specialist forms of construction/problems in the existing house you need to take account of?
 
The first thing to do is establish that what you intend to do is in fact exempted development.

There are a lot of qualifications as to what constitutes exampted development that can wrong-foot the unwary, so first ask yourself; -


How do you know your extension doesn't need planning permission?
 Have you shown the drawings of the proposed extension to the local planning officer and he's confirmed its exempted?
  If not, you should do so, or approach an architect who is competent to advise on what constitues exempted development and instruct him to do so. The most damaging decisions are those based on obsolete assumptions.

Issues to bear in mind include; -

Are there any previous extensions/conversions that have increased the habitable area of the dwelling that was originally permitted?

[40sq.m. max only applies to the originally permitted house plan]

Assuming the house has not been extended/converted previously; -

Is any of it on 1st floor?

[12 sq.m. semi-detached, 20 sq.m. detached]

How close it it to the side boundary?

How close it is to the rear boundary?

Are there windows facing either?

Is the roof hipped/gabled/flat?

If its flat roofed with a pediment and the original is single storey pitched, it probably won't comply, believe it or not.

Even flat roofed with a straight out eaves it probably won't comply, even if you are within the floor areas, if the original is single storey pitched.

Its an eaves height thing.

If the original is two storey with no gable to the rear and you extend out on 1st floor as well and put a gable on your extension, it probably won't comply.

Its an existing wall height thing.

If your roof exceeds a certain height it won't comply.

See?

There's a whole mountain of trouble awaiting unqualified "experts" extending their home without taking proper professional advice.

And the worst thing for the client is when the architect doesn't know his stuff on planning exemption, so:

Always discuss it with the planning officer.

Time well, spent, believe me. 


*Certification:*

Solicitors usually carry the ball on conveyancing.

A diligent purchaser will retain a good solicitor who will ask for the building to be surveyed, either by an architect or chartered surveyor.

The purchaser's solicitor will then request the relevant Certification.

You may be in a position to offer the original house's Opinions of Compliance with Planning Permission and Building Regulations.

Assuming the original house was compliant and recently built, with a properly sized downstairs WC, front door width, level or sloped approach of the correct fall and width for disabled persons, the architect/surveyor will probably spot the extension and note this to the solicitor.

He may then ask for certification of that part of the building by a competent architect.

[Engineers do structure and/or services, depending on their speciality, they don't do the rest of the building regulations as a rule]

Architects may be unwilling to certify work that hasn't been designed or taken to site by them/their office.

In other words, don't ring one up after the fact and expect him to issue certs for you.

If he agrees to do that, ask for proof of qualification from an accredited course, Bolton Street D.I.T, UCD/NUI, or Queens or RIBA Equivalent.

Given the current legislation requiring Architecs to Register with the RIAI, the qualification from an accredited course is an absolute minimum requirement for accepting certification.

The typical set of Architect's Certificates should normally contain; -


 An Opinion on Compliance with Planning Permission and/or confirmation of the exemption of the development from the requirement to obtain Planning Permission, and
 An Opinion on Compliance with Building Regulations
 The Opinion on Compliance with Building Regulations should contain Schedule A assurances from your engineer, builder, plumber, electrician and anyone else who supplied specialist services, materials or equipment to you for the extension, confirming that the parts they designed or built comply with the relevant regulations.

I think you are obliged from Janaury 2009 to furnish a Building Energy Rating Certificate with any building for sale or rent but check that.

There is also currently a move to do away with the existing derogation in the Safety Health and Welfare at Work Regulations from needing a Preliminary Health and Safety Plan for work done to private dwellings, which may have implications for sell on in the future.

The provision of a simple Preliminary Plan handed it to the builder for his files may future-proof your work and you should discuss this with the architect.

*Conclusion and Caveat*

This isn't exhaustive advice, but I hope it broadens your appreciation of what may be involved so that you don't just see developing an extension as merely "getting in a builder" and expecting him to deliver to you your heart's desire.

Cutting corners at the preliminary stages has cost one couple I know over a year in applications for appeals and retention and significant costs in terms of legal and professional fees.

It started because someone didn't correctly assess the proposed, supposedly exempted, development in terms of either its detail design or the timing of its delivery on site in relation to other work that for which permission had been applied for.

Anyway, hope this helps.


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## joanne82 (20 May 2009)

I was at the interior design show in the RDS at the weekend and there was an architecture company, www.homearchitect.ie. They are providing a unique service where you pay a set fee and you can include them as much as you need. 

I have no affiliation with this company.


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## DBK100 (10 Aug 2009)

joanne82 said:


> I was at the interior design show in the RDS at the weekend and there was an architecture company, www.homearchitect.ie. They are providing a unique service where you pay a set fee and you can include them as much as you need.
> 
> I have no affiliation with this company.




Some information about this firm is posted here:
[broken link removed]
Not as advantageous as they appear.
Lots of very good architects are currently offering free initial consultations. The same thing will cost you €500 with Homearchitect.


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