# Views on AIB card reader.



## Sue Ellen (7 Apr 2011)

Thought I had posted on this a few days ago but the ol' memory is letting me down as usual these days.

What are people's views on the new AIB card reader?  Definitely a positive approach from a security point of view or are there any negatives that I'm missing out on?

Have had a quick look through their updated T&Cs but they're a minefield so also wondering if there is anything else negative that we need to be aware of that we are signing up to?


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## Armada (7 Apr 2011)

Slightly OT..

I have a savings account with AIB. I do not have an ATM card for the account. I do have a code card.

I am not too familiar with AIB really but do I need a current account to get an ATM card and in turn a card reader.


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## theresa1 (7 Apr 2011)

As People loose these etc. they will be charged €5.50 for a replacement  - just another revenue stream.


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## pudds (7 Apr 2011)

theresa1 said:


> As People loose these etc. they will be charged €5.50 for a replacement  - just another revenue stream.



I have one with Ulster Bank, and their grand once you get used to them but just be aware that just like any piece of technology they can develop faults.

I had to get *two* replacements a while back as both were faulty but they were all replaced free of charge as expected.


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## Guest105 (7 Apr 2011)

It reminds me of the dongle RaboDirect have.  The AIB website is very easy to manouver around with lots of features and I think anything that improves security is probably a good thing.


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## kimmage (8 Apr 2011)

I got mine today and I think its a good step from AIB.  I had one for Ulster Bank and its identical.

In relation to the replacement fee of €5.50 - I welcome this because these things cost money, which the Bank does not have right now.  If customers don't pay for a replacement, the exchequer will.


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## truthseeker (8 Apr 2011)

If you dont get one can you just stick with the existing system of the code card?

Edited - found the answer on the link Sue Ellen provided - 


> Yes you can continue using your Code Card; however, some services will be moving to the AIB Card Reader and will no longer be available using a Code Card. If you change to the AIB Card Reader you will no longer require a Code Card as services which require a Code Card will now require an AIB Card Reader.


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## hfp (9 Apr 2011)

kimmage said:


> I got mine today and I think its a good step from AIB.  I had one for Ulster Bank and its identical.
> 
> In relation to the replacement fee of €5.50 - I welcome this because these things cost money, which the Bank does not have right now.  If customers don't pay for a replacement, the exchequer will.



You should find that your AIB card reader and Ulster Bank one are interchangeable, as far as I am aware the programming in card readers is standardised across the industry. If you lose/break your AIB card reader you should be able to use the UB one instead.


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## LexLuthor (18 Apr 2011)

At least at the moment if you leave the code card at home... someone has to physically break into your house to get the codes...  but now all they need is data, since they can use any card reader.. BAD


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## fobs (18 Apr 2011)

Can't put it in your wallet so not as portable as the code card.


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## hfp (18 Apr 2011)

LexLuthor said:


> At least at the moment if you leave the code card at home... someone has to physically break into your house to get the codes... but now all they need is data, since they can use any card reader.. BAD


 
In order to access your account using the card reader they would need your card, the PIN number for that card, along with all your log in details for your internet banking. Unless you have all your details written down in an obvious place, it is highly unlikely that a fraudster would have access to all of this.


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## Crunchie (18 Apr 2011)

hfp said:


> You should find that your AIB card reader and Ulster Bank one are interchangeable, as far as I am aware the programming in card readers is standardised across the industry. If you lose/break your AIB card reader you should be able to use the UB one instead.



Tried my AIB card in my UB reader and got "Wrong Card" so looks like they're programmed differently


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## Mystic Oil (18 Apr 2011)

Crunchie said:


> Tried my AIB card in my UB reader and got "Wrong Card" so looks like they're programmed differently



The chip contacts on the UB card are smaller than those on the AIB version. I wonder if that explains the incompatability? I've had problems using my UB card at certain retailers - all of them UK companies, ironically (B&Q, Halfords, Argos).

As for security, to log in to my UB internet banking service and do anything other than view balances, I need:

Customer number (10 digits)
Account PIN (4 digits)
Account password (a long alphanumeric string)
UB debit card associated with the relevant account
Card reader
Card PIN (4 digits)


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## robindch (5 May 2011)

Sue Ellen said:


> What are people's views on the new AIB card reader? Definitely a positive approach from a security point of view or are there any negatives that I'm missing out on?


Basically, it's more secure than the code card, and it doesn't need to be replaced as you use up the numbers.  It's likely over time, that these readers will be used for many more things than just banks' websites.





hfp said:


> You should find that your AIB card reader and Ulster  Bank one are interchangeable, as far as I am aware the programming in  card readers is standardised across the industry.


The programming standard is mandated by ISO 7816 at the electronic signalling and message exchange levels (levels zero and one).  Level two is defined by EMVCO (emvco.com) and mandates the way in which the 7816 messaging is used to implement payment applications.  The standalone readers use an extension of EMV Level Two named CAP (aka 'Chip Authentication Program').  Search for Chip Authentication Program on Wikipedia for more information.





theresa1 said:


> As People loose these etc. they will be charged €5.50 for a replacement - just another revenue stream.


The readers probably cost more than a fiver to the banks and like many things in electronic payments, are run at a loss to facilitate cardholders more profitable business elsewhere.





Crunchie said:


> Tried my AIB card in my UB reader and got "Wrong Card" so looks like they're programmed differently


The AIB and UB cards probably use different payment applications, so you won't be able to use cards from one bank in the other's readers.  Tough.





Mystic Oil said:


> The chip contacts on the UB card are smaller  than those on the AIB version. I wonder if that explains the  incompatability?


No, the smaller chips are on the more recent cards, since the card breakage rates are, I believe, higher for larger chips (imagine it flexing back and forth in your pockets).  Not all of the contacts are used on the chips either, so some of the more recent chips have two fewer contacts than the older ones.


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## Gondola (24 Jul 2012)

Hello everyone, so it looks like the card readers are going to be compulsory for everyone to use, as the code cards will be disabled on Sept 30th. 

Any updates on how efficient it is to use these devices?


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## ger1983 (30 Oct 2012)

Hi just wondering if anyone else is having problems with the AIB Code Card reader mind keeps on saying card is not responding and have two different card readers both saying the same problem for few laser cards


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## riya99 (1 Nov 2012)

Joint account holders can get one each - we did- no charge. Useful in case one gets lost!


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## mathepac (1 Nov 2012)

I used mine for the first time yesterday for an international transfer. I find the little Mickey Mouse screen hard to read at times and on 1 part of the transaction the reader powered off meaning I had to start again.

I got used to these when I had a PostBank account and welcomed the extra security. However, I did an international transfer using IBANs and BICs yesterday and at no stage that I can remember was I offered the opportunity to print out the full details of the transaction. I suppose this is the usual bank get-out-of -jail-free card - "no record, no transaction details? Ah well, you messed up, we took your money but you sent it to the wrong destination, tough luck". The money is gone, no word if it arrived safely yet.


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## AlbacoreA (1 Nov 2012)

> Chip and PIN cards are not foolproof; several vulnerabilities have been found and demonstrated, and there have been large-scale instances of fraudulent exploitation. In many cases banks have been reluctant to accept that their systems could be at fault and have refused to refund victims of what is arguably fraud, although legislation introduced in November 2009 has improved victims' rights and put the onus on the banks to prove negligence or fraud by the cardholder.



http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chip_and_PIN

If someone can make it, someone can unmake it. That said I used a card reader for the first time recently helping someone else with it. Worked fine. It easier than those code sheets they used to have.


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