# Unjust Litter Fine. Possible summons. Implications of going to Court?



## Grindle (29 Oct 2010)

Hello

I have just received a fine in the post from the county litter warden for 150euro. 

The background to this is a few weeks ago I went to a local recycling glass and clothing amenity at 12.30 at night. It was beside the local tesco. I had a bag of clothing that I wanted to put in the recycle bin and also some jars, bottles etc for the bottle bank. I firstly unloaded the bag of clothes and went to the clothing bin but it was full. There was another sealed bag of clothes left in front of the bin, where obviously a previous punter had the same difficulty and had left it in front of the bin for collection. I then left my sealed bag of clothes beside this one. 

I then went to put my bottles and jars in the bottle bank. There were roughly 10 bottle banks of which all were full almost full. I managed to squeeze a few of my bottles and jars into some of the banks, but after that they were all full. Again there was a box with some jars and bottles that were again obviously left for collection. I started to put some of my jars in here but after putting the third/fourth jar in I thought better of it and stopped, and realised it probably wasn't the smartest thing to do. At that point a loudspeaker on a pole with cctv cameras spoke at me and told me to remove my waste, that my car reg had been recorded etc.. etcc. I duly took out the ~three jars that I had placed in the box and frustrated returned them and all the other jars/bottles that I had to my car. I then drove a little distance to park closer to the door of tesco and went in and did some shopping. 

When I was in shopping , I occurred to me that the voice might have meant the clothes bag that I had left. I did my shop within half an hour and drove past the site of the amenity again but already my clothes bag and the clothes bag that was already there had disappeared. Probably taken by the various groups that take clothes and sell them to trade. 

I then went home and duly forgot about it until the fine this morning. I feel genuinely aggrieved. After trying my best to recycle, having the whole amenity unusable because of poor management by the council, genuinely trying to use the amenity as best as I could, and on recognition of a possible mistake returning shortly afterward to fix it...I feel I've been given this fine unjustly.

I'd like to challenge it, but getting a solicitor to go to court will cost far more than the fine and I risk a conviction for illegal dumping which could have an effect on my social standing and my job etc. I feel like I'm extortioned/blackmailed. Can you represent yourself in court on such a small matter? Has anyone on AAM been to court for a similar situation? Is there any way I can appeal the fine without going to court?

Thank you

Grindle.


----------



## Vanilla (29 Oct 2010)

You can do both. Write in to the office and explain the circumstances straightaway and follow that up with a phone call before the court. If they insist on going to court then you can represent yourself in court.


----------



## elcato (29 Oct 2010)

Just playing DA here but it is illegal to leave stuff beside these places. If they are full you have to come back or go elsewhere. Seeing someone else's bag is no defence. As has been said though you should write straightaway to the council and put your side of the story.


----------



## z104 (29 Oct 2010)

Write a letter and be firm and adament that you were not littering. Follow up with a phone call.


----------



## tiger (29 Oct 2010)

Effectively though you did dump the clothes illegally and leave the scene.


----------



## Slash (29 Oct 2010)

Agree.

In spite of your best efforts, and your genuine concern for doing the right thing, you committed an offence and best thing is to pay the fine and put it down to experience. This was covered by Joe Duffy Show a few weeks back and AFAIK nobody got out of paying the fine. In fact, one man spent four hours in the Joy until someone came down and paid the fine.


----------



## ontour (29 Oct 2010)

Your justifications are:

1.  Bins were full therefore littering is acceptable
2.  Other people had littered therefore littering is acceptable
3.  When caught i removed part of the waste therefore I should not be fined
4.  I returned for the rest of my waste but it was gone, therefore I should not be fined.


You have the right to be annoyed that all the bins were full but it does not excuse your actions.  
The right thing to do was to find another recycling location or come back another day.   It is because of the type of action that you took that a company has to be employed to monitor the CCTV at considerable expense.  I doubt the fines cover the cost of that service.


----------



## Grindle (30 Oct 2010)

Thanks for all you comments.

There's ample use of the words 'dump' and 'waste' in these. If it was a bag of rubbish or bottles left dump and waste would be apt words. 

This was a bag of washed folded clothes that I could have sold. I could have left them outside my door for the hawkers that regularly come and pick up and sell to trade. Just as easily I could have thrown them into my wheelie bin as theres always extra room. If I was particularly bad citizen I could have thrown them in a ditch. 

My point is by trying to be a good citizen, in conscience left the bag in a tidy manor beside the clothes bin so that it could be picked up and donated to a good cause. 

I think the verb 'litter' is not an accurate word to describe what I did. 

Plus if it was, as ontour suggested, that it was after fear of being 'caught', then I would surely have removed the bag of clothes immediately.

Like I said I feel aggrieved. I'm not wholly in the right which is why after thinking about it for half an hour I returned to remove the bag of clothes.

After having a day to calm down, I will appeal and lay my case, If it is rejected, I'll have no choice but to pay the fine. 

It's not worth the risk to go to court.

thanks for all your comments. they were all reasoned and have tempered my indignation.
Grindle.


----------



## Grindle (24 Nov 2010)

Just to update. I wrote a letter to litter warden and followed up with phonecalls as suggested here. Waited a while and have had a letter saying they reviewed the footage and the fine is cancelled with a warning. 
This isn't a vindication. I know I wasn't right in what I did and will learn for the future. Thank you for your help.


----------



## ziltwo (24 Nov 2010)

Grindle said:


> Just to update. I wrote a letter to litter warden and followed up with phonecalls as suggested here. Waited a while and have had a letter saying they reviewed the footage and the fine is cancelled with a warning.
> This isn't a vindication. I know I wasn't right in what I did and will learn for the future. Thank you for your help.



well done; I am glad it worked out for you...


----------



## SparkRite (24 Nov 2010)

Thanks for the update Grindle.......

Not a bad result all told.
Hopefully we all learn something from it.


----------



## SarahMc (29 Nov 2010)

Grindle said:


> ....At that point a loudspeaker on a pole with cctv cameras spoke at me and told me to remove my waste, that my car reg had been recorded etc.. etcc. ....



I'm impressed, was this activated by a sensor? Very clever use of technology. Imagine if all towns and main streets had this for litter or chewing gum...

Very George Orwell, but effective.


----------



## Fatphrog (30 Nov 2010)

Nah, they have some guy sitting in front of a bank of monitors probably.


----------



## Bronte (30 Nov 2010)

It's a pity the guy doing the monitoring didn't ring the council to empty the bins. Wouldn't that be a lot more efficient for everybody. Effectively the council are abdicating their responsibility by not ensuring there are enough bins or they are not emptied enough.


----------



## dereko1969 (30 Nov 2010)

Bronte said:


> It's a pity the guy doing the monitoring didn't ring the council to empty the bins. Wouldn't that be a lot more efficient for everybody. Effectively the council are abdicating their responsibility by not ensuring there are enough bins or they are not emptied enough.


 
perhaps because they're not county council owned recycling banks? they're probably owned/operated by rehab or some other organisation.


----------

