# Which 130+bhp diesel?



## rjt (15 May 2007)

Hi folks. Need a diesel, want a 130 bhp, 6 speed.Driveability and reliability primary, looks/year secondary. Have €13k-€15k. Intend to head to UK in month or so to buy. Based on Honestjohn, Which, Reliablilityindex etc. have come up with following shortlist (with some pros/cons):
Golf GT TDi 130 ('02/'03)
Pros: A great drive (honestjohn). Great reviews all round.Not bad VRT.
Cons: Not cheap for class. Some reliability issues.
BMW 320d ('02)
Pros: Looks, handling, resale.
Cons: Turbo failure, high VRT
Skoda Octavia 130 six speed ('03/'04)
Pros: Reliability, price, VRT reasonable
Cons: Sixspeeds can be hard to come by, resale value
Audi A4 130 ('02)
Pros: Reliability (?), Resale
Cons: Expensive, very (too?) firm ride.
Anyone any experience/opinions on above or alternatives worth considering.
Cheers


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## Gabriel (15 May 2007)

Personally the BMW. A lot of people will argue the Skoda for value for money. Golf is older model and avg reliability. Audi is a bit meh for my liking.


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## xt40 (15 May 2007)

pre-facelift rover 75 cdti connoisseur  auto. - (up to mar 04).
131 bhp version of the bmw engine in a way classier body and almost every toy you can imagine.  if you search the net and youll find it very hard to find a negative review.


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## xt40 (15 May 2007)

pre-facelift rover 75 cdti connoisseur  auto. - (up to mar 04).
131 bhp version of the bmw engine in a way classier body and almost every toy you can imagine.  if you search the net and youll find it very hard to find a negative review.

this one is a manual and has black seats which arent as nice as beige or light grey but its got a good desc and some good pix. ignore the price 8500-9000 is more like it.

[broken link removed]


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## eggerb (15 May 2007)

Gabriel said:


> .... Audi is a bit meh for my liking.


 
What's "meh" ?


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## richieg (15 May 2007)

BMW all the way
Better power, better drive, smoother engine


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## Sunster (15 May 2007)

Another vote for the BMW


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## collis (16 May 2007)

Driven the BMW, very nice,but bought a Skoda Superb. Wonderful engine and amazing space in the back. Based on the A6 (as far as I know) and great toys for your buck. Oddly enough I wouldn't consider an Octavia. Always likes the Rover 75 CDTI too, especially the MG version - must be getting old....!


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## aircobra19 (16 May 2007)

eggerb said:


> What's "meh" ?



http://www.guardian.co.uk/g2/story/0,,2026533,00.html

For Driveability it has to be the BMW.


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## 892896 (16 May 2007)

No Contest, the BMW.


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## 5Times (16 May 2007)

Throw this in the mix a SEAT Leon Cupra 1.9TDi 150bhp. Plenty in the UK as they dont suffer the brand snobbery like here, but thats changing, and will be fairly easy to shift later on, also comes in 130bhp without the cupra extras.


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## aircobra19 (16 May 2007)

Driveability is still with the BMW.


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## 5Times (16 May 2007)

how. rear wheel drive is over-rated, unless you've over 250bhp to play with, what’s the point. I've driven both a standard 320D and a cupra Tdi, very little between them but the price is huge. cupra is a better all rounder, plus more spec and there isnt 1000s of them over here, and servicing is fairly cheap compared to BMW.


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## 892896 (16 May 2007)

On the used market the Resale Value of the BMW should outperform the Cupra despite how good the car may be.


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## Gabriel (16 May 2007)

5Times said:


> how. rear wheel drive is over-rated, unless you've over 250bhp to play with, what’s the point. I've driven both a standard 320D and a cupra Tdi, very little between them but the price is huge. cupra is a better all rounder, plus more spec and there isnt 1000s of them over here, and servicing is fairly cheap compared to BMW.



Rear wheel drive handles better. You don't get that understeer you do in bends on front wheel cars. That's my experience anyway.

Meh = nasal noise you make about something that just doesn't float your boat when you just couldn't be arsed saying anything else


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## 5Times (16 May 2007)

892896 said:


> On the used market the Resale Value of the BMW should outperform the Cupra despite how good the car may be.


 
untrue, depreciation on an 01/02 3 series v an 03/04 cupra would be about the same.


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## 5Times (16 May 2007)

Gabriel said:


> Rear wheel drive handles better. You don't get that understeer you do in bends on front wheel cars. That's my experience anyway.


 
That only applies if you are going around a corner at high speed.


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## Gabriel (16 May 2007)

5Times said:


> That only applies if you are going around a corner at high speed.



No...it applies to all situations. Not just corners...I'm talking about bends on b roads. And it's not limited to high speed only. I've driven plenty of front wheel drive cars where you can really feel the understeer on windy roads at comfortable speeds...which makes you break a lot. It's just not an issue at the same speeds with rwd.


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## 5Times (16 May 2007)

That depends on what speed "your" comfortable with, and no thats not RWD thats BMW marketing for you. LOL the ultimate driving machine!


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## aircobra19 (16 May 2007)

5Times said:


> how. rear wheel drive is over-rated, unless you've over 250bhp to play with, what’s the point.....



Sweeping generalisation is not useful. An original Elise is 118bhp, MR2 122bhp.


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## aircobra19 (16 May 2007)

Gabriel said:


> No...it applies to all situations. Not just corners...I'm talking about bends on b roads. And it's not limited to high speed only. I've driven plenty of front wheel drive cars where you can really feel the understeer on windy roads at comfortable speeds...which makes you break a lot. It's just not an issue at the same speeds with rwd.



Theres something wrong with how you drive so, there is a difference but it isn't as clear cut as that. IMO.


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## 5Times (16 May 2007)

aircobra19 said:


> Sweeping generalisation is not useful. An original Elise is 118bhp, MR2 122bhp.


 

As said, its over-rated unless in something that weighs the same as a push bike.

Actually getting back to the point, so the only thing the BMW has over the cupra is RWD and thats only when going around corners. AHEM OK....


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## aircobra19 (16 May 2007)

5Times said:


> As said, its over-rated unless in something that weighs the same as a push bike.



You need a new push bike. 



5Times said:


> Actually getting back to the point, so the only thing the BMW has over the cupra is RWD and thats only when going around corners. AHEM OK....



There should be a difference (however small) in steering feel because the front wheels are not driven, as well as adjustability on the throttle (again however slight)  in some situations. The BMW has a better build quality, especially in the interior much like Audi > Seat. I've never like Seats plasicky interiors myself. Mechanically I doubt any of them would have the reliablity of a Japanese Diesel either.


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## 5Times (16 May 2007)

depends, the japanese have really only started to catch onto diesel, if it were my money a Honda 2.2cdti would be on my short list even if I had to wait another year or so.


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## Gabriel (16 May 2007)

aircobra19 said:


> Theres something wrong with how you drive so, there is a difference but it isn't as clear cut as that. IMO.



Drive the new Primera around even a mild bend at a reasonable (not breakneck speed) and you'll see what I'm talking about...you have no sense of feel. The car just understeers. The same applies to other cars I've driven. 

Getting off point. I agree with your other comments for BMW over Seat.


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## RS2K (16 May 2007)

5Times said:


> That depends on what speed "your" comfortable with, and no thats not RWD thats BMW marketing for you. LOL the ultimate driving machine!



I'd nearly bet you have a fwd car. Perhaps a Seat?


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## 5Times (16 May 2007)

cant really compare a poxy tinny primera to a 3 series or cupra they are both classed as high performance cars, cupra being based on a tired and tested chassis, (audi TT)

Its a personal thing about interiors, agree that SEAT has some issues with the lower spec versions, on the Cupra its more improved, they have Recaro seats as standard, the cockpit area is very similar in both cars they are both very well put together, there’s honestly very little in it, the 1.9 engine is also more reliable for say a 01 320D which suffers turbo issues.


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## 5Times (16 May 2007)

RS2K said:


> I'd nearly bet you have a fwd car. Perhaps a Seat?


 

I'd nearly bet you have a ford escort with an RS 2000 kit. Owned many cars a SEAT cupra being one of them, and a 318 being one also, your point.


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## aircobra19 (16 May 2007)

A new primera's not really relevant though is it. 

I'm no expert just a average joe. But IMO a lot of modern cars have no steering feel. Some [SIZE=-1]subsitutue [/SIZE]massive grip for feeling which some confuse with decent handling. However even some dull handling cars like say a Micra actually do have some feeling once you get used to the initial numbness, and over time you learn to read them better. But if you constantly having to back off you are not driving them right. Consistancy and smooth inputs are what you are aiming for. If you are doing lots of braking you need to adjust to the vehicle. IMO anywayz. 

I think the Honda would be one of my favorites had I the money too. I'd still go with the BMW out of this list, regardless of the image. It may not perform any better than the others but its just a nicer place to be. IMO of course.


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## aircobra19 (16 May 2007)

5Times said:


> ...tired and tested chassis, (audi TT)...
> 
> ...the 1.9 engine is also more reliable for say a 01 320D which suffers turbo
> issues.



The TT's chassis isn't that well regarded. Tired and tested  is right. Unless you mean the new TT. 

The 1.9 TDI' VAG Diesels have their own reliability issues from what I'm hearing. 



RS2K said:


> I'd nearly bet you have a fwd car. Perhaps a Seat?



I've 4 Seats, that do yah? They are all in an Opel though.


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## 5Times (16 May 2007)

horses for courses.

At the time the TT was "reportedly" one of the best, its a good place to start i guess.


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## rjt (16 May 2007)

Cheers for the input. Heart saying beemer, head skoda but this cupra has intrigued both. Must do some research on them. 5Times assume you driven one-is 150 overkill-bordering on dangerous? Traction control standard?


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## RS2K (16 May 2007)

5Times said:


> I'd nearly bet you have a ford escort with an RS 2000 kit. Owned many cars a SEAT cupra being one of them, and a 318 being one also, your point.



You'd be wrong then.

My point is you are hopelessly biased.


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## RS2K (16 May 2007)

5Times said:


> horses for courses.
> 
> At the time the TT was "reportedly" one of the best, its a good place to start i guess.



It was 4wd though, and still not all that.


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## Mad_Lad (16 May 2007)

My brother has an audi A4 multitronic 130bhp, nice car. very well put together. firm but nice suspension. Multitronic is no dsg, it saps power a bit and is harder on fuel. 50 mpg if you drive like your granny! The manual would be a better bet. I have the vw passat 130bhp. Good engine and box, interior is crap and mine rattles. Suspension not good. and it's hard on cv boots. But great economy. 50-55 mpg no problem. 60-62 max possible with careful driving.


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## 5Times (17 May 2007)

rjt said:


> Cheers for the input. Heart saying beemer, head skoda but this cupra has intrigued both. Must do some research on them. 5Times assume you driven one-is 150 overkill-bordering on dangerous? Traction control standard?


 

150 is perfect, it really makes the car feel light and brisk, traction control is standard. 

Heres an example of one thats for sale on seatcupra.net and autotrader, not sure if it adds up for you with VRT etc, they can be got for cheaper, this one is in very good condition but is sold.

*SEAT LEON CUPRA TDI 150/ 04 reg* 

NORMAL STANDARD SPEC:
6 speed manual
Traction control
8 speaker Dolby stereo surround sound, with 6 cd mulitchanger.
One touch windows
3 mph auto door locking
Drop / adjust steering
Dual climate control
6 speed front intermittent wipers
Bucket seats
Colour of car is magic black metallic
600 mls tank
Car has F/S/H & is in excellent condition.
Car has done 19,400 MLS only from new.

£9,850 O.V.N.O

Heres an irish one in tip for 16,250, I'd say with a little work could be got for less.

http://www.carzone.ie/usedcars/index.cfm?fuseaction=car&carID=586431


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## aircobra19 (17 May 2007)

Nice spec alright. Are they much lot cheaper than a BMW.


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## 5Times (17 May 2007)

heres an advertised 04 130bhp with some tacky lights which i would get rid off. I'd check the log book and verify that its 130bhp.

http://www.carzone.ie/usedcars/index.cfm?fuseaction=car&carID=683140


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## 5Times (17 May 2007)

aircobra19 said:


> Nice spec alright. Are they much lot cheaper than a BMW.


 
Heres an imported BMW without the VRT paid. Check out the mileage.

http://www.carzone.ie/usedcars/index.cfm?fuseaction=car&carID=681755


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## rjt (17 May 2007)

Nice one 5times, cheers. They certainly offer good value for money. Swaying towards one. Will do research at weekend


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## 5Times (18 May 2007)

Go for it , either way you wont regret it, let us know what you decided on in the end.


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