# Protests...enough is enough



## shesells (18 Sep 2013)

Apologies, this is a mostly Dublin centric rant but I've been pushed over the edge!

I'm an average citizen, with bills that only go up and income that's gone down and down for the past 5 years or so. Austerity hurts. But I was always taught to put your head down and work through it as best you can. It isn't easy but I've kept going.

I know there are sections of society that feel hard done by, some truly are, some are perpetual moaners/protesters/troublemakers...yes Eirigi I'm looking at you!

All year it's been protest after protest. Disturbance, delay and inconvenience on at least a weekly basis. Today's protests in Dublin have pushed me over the edge to the point of almost wishing the right to protest was rescinded. The traffic chaos in Dublin all day, caused by a few hundred, must have affected hundreds of thousands. It took me 40 mins longer than normal to get home this evening, I was late back from lunch today because some of the streets had been closed off by the Gardai.

I did nothing to cause the recession, to break the banks, like most I'm in negative equity of scary proportions. Protestors, please stop making me suffer ever more!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


----------



## blueband (18 Sep 2013)

I can understand how you would be frustrated, but think how many thousands of people would love to say they were late back from lunch!....count your blessings


----------



## shesells (18 Sep 2013)

That doesn't give them the right to jeopardise my job by making me late!


----------



## blueband (18 Sep 2013)

I agree it doesn't, im just saying you have see things from both sides though.


----------



## shesells (18 Sep 2013)

Blocking O'Connell bridge gets nobody a job, sends nobody to prison and does not stop banks being bailed out though. If anything it puts jobs at risk, ask any of the nearby businesses how they did today, or the cafes around Molesworth Street that was blocked off all day.

Protests like this achieve nothing in this country. I almost feel the need to organise an anti-protest protest!


----------



## Sunny (19 Sep 2013)

I would have some sympathy if it was ordinary people protesting. But it wasn't. While there were a few genuine people their who wanted their voices heard, they were vastly outnumbered by scumbags who have never contributed anything to society and just wanted to cause trouble.  I did enjoy seeing Sinn Fein getting abused though!


----------



## Bronco Lane (19 Sep 2013)

I have to say that in my heart I actually supported the protestors. If we all sit around and take it too peacefully then we will be walked all over. Throughout the year I have made savings by switching my various car and house and health insurances and playing one off against the other. I shop in all of the supermarkets to make savings on the various "specials" available. I grow my own vegetables. If I need to fly with Ryanair I wait and wait until the price comes to me. I shop around for the cheapest petrol. I use coupons et etc etc. All in all I make savings of about €700 per annum. Then comes along Property Tax and everything I have saved is wiped out in one go.
Enda Kenny and the boys have had it easy up to this. The only thing that they have done is raise taxes and cut services and slagged off Fianna Fail. Enda spends his time hiding away and only comes out with his prepared speeches. No open debates for him.
I think that protests are a good thing.


----------



## Odea (19 Sep 2013)

shesells said:


> Blocking O'Connell bridge gets nobody a job, sends nobody to prison and does not stop banks being bailed out though. If anything it puts jobs at risk, ask any of the nearby businesses how they did today, or the cafes around Molesworth Street that was blocked off all day.
> 
> Protests like this achieve nothing in this country. I almost feel the need to organise an anti-protest protest!



I totally disagree. Protesting will be the only way to make this Government sit up and take notice. Yes there were a number of anarchists in the mix but there were plenty of "enough is enough" people as well.
There are enough policemen out there to re-direct traffic as needs be. I'm sure a few of them will find being outside in the fresh air a new experience.


----------



## shesells (19 Sep 2013)

Get real! It's more likely to see anti protest laws introduced than change anything.


----------



## Sunny (19 Sep 2013)

Odea said:


> I totally disagree. Protesting will be the only way to make this Government sit up and take notice. Yes there were a number of anarchists in the mix but there were plenty of "enough is enough" people as well.
> There are enough policemen out there to re-direct traffic as needs be. I'm sure a few of them will find being outside in the fresh air a new experience.



Indeed. Luas trams are easy to redirect when people are sitting on tracks. What were those people protesting against? Was Enda on the Tram?


----------



## Delboy (19 Sep 2013)

Odea said:


> I totally disagree. Protesting will be the only way to make this Government sit up and take notice. Yes there were a number of anarchists in the mix but there were plenty of "enough is enough" people as well.
> There are enough policemen out there to re-direct traffic as needs be. I'm sure a few of them will find being outside in the fresh air a new experience.



I see a 747 bus stuck on Westmoreland St in 1 of the pics on Journal.ie heading for the airport...I'm sure the people on board that who missed their flights share your grand opinions.

Why did'nt the gardai wade into them with batons within 1 minute of them sitting down on a public road. Protest all you want outside the Dail but not on O'Connell bridge at rush hour. Publicity seeking professional protestors who probably don't get much fresh air either


----------



## Laramie (19 Sep 2013)

Delboy said:


> I see a 747 bus stuck on Westmoreland St in 1 of the pics on Journal.ie heading for the airport...I'm sure the people on board that who missed their flights share your grand opinions.



Is that not the whole point of protests?  To cause a bit of disruption and get people to take notice. Unfortunately you have to break a few eggs to make your point. The recent publicity about the Priory Hall apartments made the government get off their backside and make a commitment to do something about them.

We have tried the peaceful stuff. I think that we need to turn the screw a bit more to get the boys away from the Dail bar.


----------



## Sunny (19 Sep 2013)

Laramie said:


> Is that not the whole point of protests?  To cause a bit of disruption and get people to take notice. Unfortunately you have to break a few eggs to make your point. The recent publicity about the Priory Hall apartments made the government get off their backside and make a commitment to do something about them.
> 
> We have tried the peaceful stuff. I think that we need to turn the screw a bit more to get the boys away from the Dail bar.



Make your point to whom? What politician gave a damn about a protests on O'Connell Street while they sitting in the Dail? 

The only people that noticed yesterday were tourists and people trying to go about their business or get home to their families. The right to protest is an important civil liberty but it was abused last night by a bunch of scum bags. They could have organised a protest march properly and gave notice instead of closing down streets during rush hour. 

The recent publicity about priory hall was brought about by the suicide of a young man and the bravery of his wife. Had nothing in common with last nights display.


----------



## dereko1969 (19 Sep 2013)

Garda were absolutely useless yesterday, couldn't keep Kildare Street open to traffic when there were only 50 protesters there.

It was all Éirigí and other assorted mongrel "republicans" causing chaos on O'Connell Street. No solutions proposed just the usual rubbish, how many of those Eirigi supporters (who deny the State's right to exist) are claiming social welfare and only getting up in the afternoon which was when the numbers protesting increased?


----------



## blueband (19 Sep 2013)

the problem with protest in this country is that we just don't do it properly, small protests are for the most part usless. you need massive protests across the whole country that leaves the government in constant fear of what the people will next!
instead the people live in fear of what the government will do next...


----------



## Sunny (19 Sep 2013)

Protests are useless. The only protest that matters is the ballot box if you want politicians to listen. Instead of taking to the streets, there should be lines of people outside every single TD's office looking to meet them. They should be inundated with letters explaining how angry people are and demanding change. Why close down Dublin City Centre and cause more hardship on businesses trying to survive and people trying to get home ? That achieved nothing but negative stories about the march. Very little about what they were protesting about. The ordinary people there last night allowed themselves to be hijacked by nut jobs looking for publicity.


----------



## Delboy (19 Sep 2013)

Laramie said:


> Is that not the whole point of protests?  To cause a bit of disruption and get people to take notice. Unfortunately you have to break a few eggs to make your point. The recent publicity about the Priory Hall apartments made the government get off their backside and make a commitment to do something about them.
> 
> We have tried the peaceful stuff. I think that we need to turn the screw a bit more to get the boys away from the Dail bar.



I trust you'll be so understanding in future whether at home or abroad if you miss a flight due to protests.
My OH was caught on a bus in town yesterday eve night as a result of this with our 2 kids. For nearly 2 hours, 4 times longer than normal. Kids were wrecked when they got home.

Dropouts and dossers most of them, that have added as much benefit to this country as any of the crooked politicians or inept bankers and PS's that they protest about


----------



## IsleOfMan (19 Sep 2013)

Sunny said:


> Protests are useless. The only protest that matters is the ballot box if you want politicians to listen.



Are you serious?  We voted in Fine Gael and Labour on their promises made but not kept as soon as they got in to power. Then they get away with all their perks/pensions and high salaries for 5 years. I see that they are already scrambling for their bigger jobs in Europe.
Targeted protests with maximum publicity will work.


----------



## Grizzly (19 Sep 2013)

blueband said:


> the problem with protest in this country is that we just don't do it properly, small protests are for the most part usless. you need massive protests across the whole country that leaves the government in constant fear of what the people will next!
> instead the people live in fear of what the government will do next...



Very good post. Unless we stand up and protest no change will take place. Local communities can protest outside their hospitals, roads, schools etc if that is where their problem lies, and also target their local politicians.
On a national scale we need to get out in our thousands with the Gardai redirecting traffic as needs be.
Instead of sitting on the Luas maybe get off and join the protest instead of leaving others to do it.


----------



## Sunny (19 Sep 2013)

ParkLane said:


> Are you serious?  We voted in Fine Gael and Labour on their promises made but not kept as soon as they got in to power. Then they get away with all their perks/pensions and high salaries for 5 years. I see that they are already scrambling for their bigger jobs in Europe.
> Targeted protests with maximum publicity will work.



Politicians didn't keep per election promises?? Don't know about anyone else but I am shocked. We should set up an inquiry. 

Targeted protests at what? Commuters? Sinn Fein book shops? That's really going to work alright.


----------



## dereko1969 (19 Sep 2013)

Protest about what though? Everything? 

Is the solution more Shinner/FF rubbish whereby there's no cuts to anything? If all the causes added together yesterday there would be no cuts to anything.

I've no problem with people protesting on Molesworth Street as long as the Garda do their job and restrict them to that area and not impinge on Kildare Street, or enforce the law and arrest people for unauthorised marches which was the case yesterday. Why should people pre-notify the Garda of marches if there are no repurcussions for those that do not?


----------



## Purple (19 Sep 2013)

ParkLane said:


> Are you serious?  We voted in Fine Gael and Labour on their promises made but not kept as soon as they got in to power. Then they get away with all their perks/pensions and high salaries for 5 years. I see that they are already scrambling for their bigger jobs in Europe.
> Targeted protests with maximum publicity will work.



Will work how? Specifically what are they looking for and what are the consequences?
What are the protesters protesting about? 
What alternative are they proposing?

If the state was just one house then the last government emptied the bank account, ran up massive debts and threw a massive party in which the house was wrecked.
The present government is saying “we now need to borrow money from our neighbours to eat and they are insisting that we fix up the gaff and stop partying as a condition of loaning us that money". 
They are also insisting that we repay previous loans members of their household made to us. 
The protesters are saying, and I’m paraphrasing here, “tell them to F-off” (F meaning “Flip” ).
What the protesters are not offering is an alternative plan to fix up the house and pay for our grub.
I know that the Shinners and People against Logic and other fringe groups made up of wide-eyed nutters and associate members of the human race think that there are some “if only we do THIS” type half-baked solutions that are bereft of detail and don’t stand up to even the most basic scrutiny but I haven’t heard any real alternative from any of the protesters or protest groups. 
I forget which economist said it but I always think of the line “Anger isn’t a policy”. What have these guys got to offer other than anger?


----------



## Latrade (19 Sep 2013)

Purple said:


> Will work how? Specifically what are they looking for and what are the consequences?
> What are the protesters protesting about?
> What alternative are they proposing?


 
Based upon the signs at the protest: bankers jailed and Brits Out. 

But, I would disagree that all protests have to have a position paper and proposal for change. Sometimes protests are based upon a movement of anger/disagreement and there simply is no other way of showing that. Whatever people's views about the protests yesterday, I think the scale of the protest wasn't helped by the Gardai reaction to the initial small protest, plus I find it less self-serving that middle class students protesting about tuition fees, wealthy OAPs complaining about medical cards or even more disruptive, farmers protesting their right to have everything they do subsidised. 

Anyway, for the greater good of preserving the right to protest, I don't mind a bit of inconvinience to my journey.


----------



## IsleOfMan (20 Sep 2013)

Latrade said:


> But, I would disagree that all protests have to have a position paper and proposal for change. Sometimes protests are based upon a movement of anger/disagreement and there simply is no other way of showing that.



I agree. Just back from a few days in Holland. I was able to purchase a 3 months supply of my Cholesterol tablets there for €22 that cost me €51 here. I crossed over in to Germany and they cost me €19 for a box of 100.

I am peed of with lots of things that could be done to help people in this country but these things are not being done. They are very quick to raise taxes and cut services though.

I think that protests are a good thing.


----------



## Purple (20 Sep 2013)

Latrade said:


> But, I would disagree that all protests have to have a position paper and proposal for change.


 I never suggested they did. A vague notion would be good though, especially from the leaders who have built a national profile giving out while offering not much more that "They should do something about it" as a solution.


----------



## TarfHead (20 Sep 2013)

purple said:


> i know that the shinners and people against logic and other fringe groups made up of wide-eyed nutters and associate members of the human race think that there are some “if only we do this” type half-baked solutions that are bereft of detail and don’t stand up to even the most basic scrutiny but i haven’t heard any real alternative from any of the protesters or protest groups.


 
+1


----------



## Latrade (20 Sep 2013)

Purple said:


> I never suggested they did. A vague notion would be good though, especially from the leaders who have built a national profile giving out while offering not much more that "They should do something about it" as a solution.


 
I'd agree for those who are putting themselves on a pedestal as being either a spokesperson or a leader. But the nature of this protest was more spontaneous (which resulted in certain bad elements attending too), we have to separate a spontaneous demonstration of anger at the current situation, which I feel is justified, and organised demonstrations hoping to push through a specific agenda. 

Despite the presence of some less desirable elements at the protest, the fact that it was largely peaceful shows it wasn't all scumbags and I have more time for people getting up and showing anger at a situation than I do farmers blocking off from Merrion Square to Cavan just because of a specific subsidy that they want to preserve just for themselves and damn everyone else. 

It probably wouldn't have escalated or been as disruptive if the Gardai hadn't tried to totally shut down and resrict the initial morning demonstration.


----------



## Purple (20 Sep 2013)

Inside the Dail there’s a group of people running the country and there’s not one of them you’d get to run your business.
Outside the Dail there’s a group of people protesting about nobody’s sure what and there’s not one of them you’d sit beside on the bus.

If they could all be scooped up and put someplace far away I think the country would be a better place.


----------



## T McGibney (20 Sep 2013)

Latrade said:


> I'd agree for those who are putting themselves on a pedestal as being either a spokesperson or a leader. But the nature of this protest was more spontaneous (which resulted in certain bad elements attending too), we have to separate a spontaneous demonstration of anger at the current situation, which I feel is justified, and organised demonstrations hoping to push through a specific agenda.



There is no such thing as a spontaneous protest.



Latrade said:


> Despite the presence of some less desirable elements at the protest, the  fact that it was largely peaceful shows it wasn't all scumbags and I  have more time for people getting up and showing anger at a situation  than I do farmers blocking off from Merrion Square to Cavan just because  of a specific subsidy that they want to preserve just for themselves  and damn everyone else.



If farmers engaged in a "spontaneous" unannounced protest without advance organisation, notice and co-operation with the Gardai and city authorities, their leaders and organisations would find themselves before the courts by nightfall, facing significant sanctions.


----------



## Delboy (20 Sep 2013)

The 'protest' was well flagged in advance.....it's an annual event at this stage (1st Dail session after the summer), hence the barriers were put up in the days before


----------



## T McGibney (20 Sep 2013)

Did that include the Eirigi assembly at O'Connell Street Bridge?


----------



## DerKaiser (21 Sep 2013)

Purple said:


> Inside the Dail there’s a group of people running the country and there’s not one of them you’d get to run your business.
> Outside the Dail there’s a group of people protesting about nobody’s sure what and there’s not one of them you’d sit beside on the bus.
> 
> If they could all be scooped up and put someplace far away I think the country would be a better place.


Well said! 

Bad enough the way things have turned out without having to listen to showers of imbeciles who, even with the benefit of hindsight, haven't a clue of why we are actually in this mess.


----------



## Time (22 Sep 2013)

I have been informed that Special Branch have photos of all the troublemakers for their files.


----------



## La Chime (23 Sep 2013)

T McGibney said:


> There is no such thing as a spontaneous protest.
> 
> 
> 
> If farmers engaged in a "spontaneous" unannounced protest without advance organisation, notice and co-operation with the Gardai and city authorities, their leaders and organisations would find themselves before the courts by nightfall, facing significant sanctions.



There is protests most weekends in dublin and tralee as far im aware- by tralee says no and dublin says no- to the best of my knowledge the protests are spontaneous to a degree meaning unlike most other protests there is no prearranged route with the gardai they just march- which in my view is a better form of protest instead of a pre arranged route followed by political speeches by  people getting ready for elections.


----------



## Sunny (23 Sep 2013)

Time said:


> I have been informed that Special Branch have photos of all the troublemakers for their files.



That will show them!


----------



## blueband (23 Sep 2013)

Time said:


> I have been informed that Special Branch have photos of all the troublemakers for their files.


yeah roll on the police state!


----------



## Time (23 Sep 2013)

They do this anywhere known subversives are likely to appear.


----------



## blueband (23 Sep 2013)

wow! so if you feel the right to protest now you are automatically a 'subversive'....best just knuckle under so..


----------



## Sunny (23 Sep 2013)

Amazed these people still behave like this knowing their pictures are going to be on file. Maybe it's time to step things up though and send out sternly worded letters about future behaviour.


----------



## blueband (23 Sep 2013)

or just pass a law that anyone seen protesting can be shot on sight!...that would soon put an end to it..


----------



## Purple (23 Sep 2013)

Sunny said:


> Amazed these people still behave like this knowing their pictures are going to be on file. Maybe it's time to step things up though and send out sternly worded letters about future behaviour.





blueband said:


> or just pass a law that anyone seen protesting can be shot on sight!...that would soon put an end to it..



Should  get the letter first or be shot first?
It seems to be a waste of state resourced to send the letter after shooting them. That in turn cold lead to more protests about waste and well, we'd end up with a bloodbath.


----------



## Sunny (23 Sep 2013)

Purple said:


> Should  get the letter first or be shot first?
> It seems to be a waste of state resourced to send the letter after shooting them. That in turn cold lead to more protests about waste and well, we'd end up with a bloodbath.



Well bullets are pretty expensive and I think these are reasonable people. A strongly worded letter from Enda should get them thinking about their actions. If not, the special branch might need to start getting serious and invest in good video cameras so there will be film footage on file rather than just still shots.

That will give those real IRA thugs something to think about.


----------



## Purple (23 Sep 2013)

Sunny said:


> Well bullets are pretty expensive and I think these are reasonable people. A strongly worded letter from Enda should get them thinking about their actions. If not, the special branch might need to start getting serious and invest in good video cameras so there will be film footage on file rather than just still shots.
> 
> That will give those real IRA thugs something to think about.


If the cost of bullets is an issue we could always use bayonets. The dramatic effect would also be greater. 
Alternatively we could crucify them along the M50 (or since that would cause traffic jams due to rubber-necking maybe we could use the M9 as it's virtually unused).
Crucifixion may be a little bit extreme. Maybe we could just kill them and save crucifixion for second offences.


----------



## blueband (23 Sep 2013)

one cross each!!


----------



## Purple (23 Sep 2013)

blueband said:


> one cross each!!



What's wrong with using both sides?
Times are hard you know.


----------



## blueband (23 Sep 2013)

yeah I often wondered about that, the romans must have had plenty of spare timber..


----------



## Purple (23 Sep 2013)

blueband said:


> yeah I often wondered about that, the romans must have had plenty of spare timber..



Yea, wasters... no wonder the whole thing fell apart on them.


----------



## BOXtheFOX (24 Sep 2013)

But then we would have splinters of wood being carried around by the comrades in mini shrines. Relics would be traded on eBay. I would not be in to the jewel encrusted boxes at all. I would much prefer the plain Maple wood type, maybe with a bit of inlay.


----------



## Liamos (24 Sep 2013)

Crucifixion may be a little bit extreme. Maybe we could just kill them and save crucifixion for second offences.[/QUOTE]

Wow, some real dark humour on here today!


----------



## Purple (24 Sep 2013)

Liamos said:


> Wow, some real dark humour on here today!



Thanks!


----------



## Teatime (26 Sep 2013)

Bronco Lane said:


> I have to say that in my heart I actually supported the protestors. If we all sit around and take it too peacefully then we will be walked all over. Throughout the year I have made savings by switching my various car and house and health insurances and playing one off against the other. I shop in all of the supermarkets to make savings on the various "specials" available. I grow my own vegetables. If I need to fly with Ryanair I wait and wait until the price comes to me. I shop around for the cheapest petrol. I use coupons et etc etc. All in all I make savings of about €700 per annum. Then comes along Property Tax and everything I have saved is wiped out in one go.
> Enda Kenny and the boys have had it easy up to this. The only thing that they have done is raise taxes and cut services and slagged off Fianna Fail. Enda spends his time hiding away and only comes out with his prepared speeches. No open debates for him.
> I think that protests are a good thing.


 
I really didn't know much about the Dail protest until a few days before it happened but I too support the ideal of a Dail protest even if I could not quite grasp what the objective was. 
Anyway I am friendly enough with my local TD. He is relatively new in the Dail and I have known him for years, mainly through sport. He told me that the powers-that-be were genuinely nervous about the protests and what they could trigger. They know there is anger out there waiting to be tapped. He said they (not him) had discussed it at cabinet level a few times. He also said they were delighted with the outcome and then he laughed at the resulting bad press it received and some of the loons that turned up. I wasn't overly impressed that he laughed and we argued the rights and wrongs of it for a bit.


----------



## callybags (27 Sep 2013)

Wow, some real dark humour on here today![/QUOTE]

Racist.


----------



## Purple (27 Sep 2013)

callybags said:


> Racist.



Lol


----------



## Deas (27 Sep 2013)

blueband said:


> wow! so if you feel the right to protest now you are automatically a 'subversive'....best just knuckle under so..


 

??  The idiots protesting on the day in question were subversives.  How else would you explain the Brits out placards?


----------



## blueband (27 Sep 2013)

and was everybody carrying these placards?


----------

