# Mail, email and the law?



## d2x2 (1 Mar 2009)

Wondering what the legal situation is with regards mail and email in Ireland in the following scenarios. The following is actually happening to me and causing me great anguish (and anger and frustration) to say the least and right now I have no idea whether I have a leg to stand on or what I can do. 



If a letter is addressed to me but not delivered by the postal service? Would I have a right to complain or take it further?
A letter is addressed to me at a place of work but I don't work there any more. I would expect that the employer would forward the letter or at least return to sender. If they didn't and simply binned it, would that be acceptable? What could I then do?
Is the same true of email or do different rules apply?


If email is sent to my email address (correctly) but the email provider does not deliver it? What could I then do?
If I had an email account with a web site  but the website decides I should no longer have access to their service, what happens with emails sent to that email account? Can I expect that they will forward the emails sent to it? Or at least that they would notify senders that the account no longer exists ('mail bounce')? What could I then do or expect to happen?
*Thanks *to whoever can enlighten me, send me the definite Google search answer (I tried but nothing specific to Ireland came up), tell me whether I am right or wrong or point me in the right direction.


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## GreenQueen (1 Mar 2009)

This is my general understanding....

Emails are not permissable by law because they can be altered after the fact. 

Mail that has been posted is treated as having been received by the recipient provided the sender has the correct address details. 

Registered post on the other hand can be treated as received or declined as you can decline to receive a registered item by post.


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## d2x2 (1 Mar 2009)

Thanks GreenQueen. I have no plans to use email in a court case... 

I need to know what to do about messages sent to me and not delivered. They could be a tax reminder that is not delivered, a lottery win notification... with catastrophic consequences.


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## AlbacoreA (2 Mar 2009)

d2x2 said:


> Thanks GreenQueen. I have no plans to use email in a court case...
> 
> I need to know what to do about messages sent to me and not delivered. They could be a tax reminder that is not delivered, a lottery win notification... with catastrophic consequences.


 
Email isn't fail proof.


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## aonfocaleile (2 Mar 2009)

In relation to your question regarding the postal services, check out the Postal and Telecommunications Services Act 1983, which is the main legislation governing the provision of postal services in Ireland. Available on www.irishstatutebook.ie

There is a legal obligation AFAIK to return mail to sender.Its covered in the above mentioned Act.


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## d2x2 (2 Mar 2009)

AlbacoreA said:


> Email isn't fail proof.



Thanks. That's precisely why I posted my question: when something goes wrong, where does responsibility lie?


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## Complainer (2 Mar 2009)

d2x2 said:


> Wondering what the legal situation is with regards mail and email in Ireland in the following scenarios. The following is actually happening to me and causing me great anguish (and anger and frustration) to say the least and right now I have no idea whether I have a leg to stand on or what I can do.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Perhaps you should focus your energies on just updating the postal and email addresses being used by the senders, rather than worrying about the legal stuff?


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## d2x2 (2 Mar 2009)

aonfocaleile said:


> In relation to your question regarding the postal services, check out the Postal and Telecommunications Services Act 1983, which is the main legislation governing the provision of postal services in Ireland. Available on www.irishstatutebook.ie
> 
> There is a legal obligation AFAIK to return mail to sender.Its covered in the above mentioned Act.



LOL I have no idea where to start! Probably study law for a couple of years first... 

If anyone _knows _or has the beginning of an answer or _knows someone who knows_, I'd appreciate a little more help.


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## d2x2 (2 Mar 2009)

Complainer said:


> Perhaps you should focus your energies on just updating the postal and email addresses being used by the senders, rather than worrying about the legal stuff?



That's what I am doing but I still need to know about the legal obligations of email providers.


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## AlbacoreA (2 Mar 2009)

d2x2 said:


> Thanks. That's precisely why I posted my question: when something goes wrong, where does responsibility lie?


 
Look at the "Acceptable Use Policies" and "Terms of Service" you have in your contract with the service you are using. I'm pretty sure all will have a disclaimer about it. That you agreed to signing up. Email is unreliable, no one guarantees delivery. it would be impossible. 

You say you're not focused on the legal, aspect. But its seems like thats the only aspect you're interested in. 

Why did they stop your access to the email account. That seems to the root of your problem.


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## csirl (3 Mar 2009)

> A letter is addressed to me at a place of work but I don't work there any more. I would expect that the employer would forward the letter or at least return to sender. If they didn't and simply binned it, would that be acceptable? What could I then do?


 
No, you would not expect your employer to forward the letter. Any letter addressed to you at your place of work is related to your employment duties, therefore if you leave the company, your replacement or whoever in your company has taken over your body of work is the intended recipient. The contents of the letter are no longer any business of yours as you no longer work there. 

If the contents of the letter are not work related (and even if they are) the employer is well within his/her rights to bin the letter.


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## AlbacoreA (3 Mar 2009)

I dunno why ye are fixating on regular mail. email is entirely different. A regular mail will most likely stay within one or two systems, and its not unreasonable for them to quarantee delivery. An email might go across 20 different systems, almost all of which cannot reasonably quarantee delivery, and all which will have disclaimers in their service agreement of same. 

Besides the issue here isn't quarantee of delivery. Its why the OP was locked out of his account, and what his contract entitles him to in that instance. You don't need to look beyond that.


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## Thirsty (3 Mar 2009)

> Emails are not permissable by law


Crumbs... you mean I've been breaking the law for years?

I think what you meant was that emails are not admissable as evidence?  But I'm not sure that's correct either...wasn't there a famous court case recently where emails (and an email address) were cited in evidence?


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## AlbacoreA (3 Mar 2009)

It can be used, but it can be dismissed. As it can be tampered with and faked.


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## Complainer (3 Mar 2009)

AlbacoreA said:


> As it can be tampered with and faked.


Just like paper mail - right?


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## Caveat (3 Mar 2009)

Yes, but much more easily.  For example:



Complainer said:


> The private sector generally, is brilliant


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## d2x2 (3 Mar 2009)

LOL @Caveat.

Thanks to all, I appreciate the help.

I contacted the COMREG Consumer Line  ("the regulator for the electronic communications and postal sectors") in the meantime but they "have no regulatory role in the provision of email  accounts."



> Look at the "Acceptable Use Policies" and "Terms of Service"


Thanks, I have done that. More below.



> You say you're not focused on the legal, aspect. But its seems like thats the only aspect you're interested in.


I am interested in the legal aspect 250%. However, my earlier message in response to a post was that I was not looking to use email as evidence in a court case.



> Why did they stop your access to the email account.


I changed suppliers. BUT (don't jump at me yet) the email account thing was an aside to the service which under the T&Cs seemed to continue beyond the provision of the paying service.



> No, you would not expect your employer to forward the letter.


Yes, bad analogy. A better would be if I moved home and found the new owners were destroying mail sent to me.



> An email might go across 20 different systems, almost all of which cannot reasonably guarantee delivery, and all which will have disclaimers in their service agreement of same.


True but more than likely the failing server will at least issue a bounce back at the sender.

IN CONCLUSION: At least now I know that email is a legal blackhole... but AAM users are great support. Thanks again everyone.

Enraged, angry, anguished and frustrated as I am, I am going to leave it at that.


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## AlbacoreA (4 Mar 2009)

d2x2 said:


> I changed suppliers. BUT (don't jump at me yet) the email account thing was an aside to the service which under the T&Cs seemed to continue beyond the provision of the paying service.


 
Could you quote that part of the T&C's I'd like to see that. 



d2x2 said:


> ....True but more than likely the failing server will at least issue a bounce back at the sender.


 
Not always, and you can't rely on that. 



d2x2 said:


> IN CONCLUSION: At least now I know that email is a legal blackhole... ...


 
I think its useful to note, its a legal black hole, because its a technical black hole. Easily broken.


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