# Audi A3 v Honda civic v Toyota Corolla - how to choose?



## Bluebean (7 Jun 2007)

hi all, 

Looking to change my car and I think I have narrowed it down to the 3 cars mentioned.

I have approx 10k to spend, and ideally I'd like a 2002 at the oldest.

Not willing to compromise on the following:  Must be 5 door, must be hatchback.

Would like air con if at all possible.  

Petrol or diesel, I don't really mind which.

What are the pros and cons of each?  

In your opinion, would I be better off going to the UK and buying in from there?

Which of the cars is most reliable, and which would cost least to service/repair?

All help greatly appreciated, 

thanks.


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## Gabriel (7 Jun 2007)

If you search through the forum you'll find loads of posts on these very cars and comparing them.

Audi = overpriced but the pick of the bunch. Pricey for services.

Civic = interesting, possibly pricey to service and not as great to drive as the Audi.

Corrolla = so boring I just couldn't be bothered commenting anymore.

However...the car you should actually go for is the Focus 1.6 Zetec.


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## Caveat (7 Jun 2007)

Hi

You'll probably get more informed posts than mine, but in terms of reliability the Honda is easily the most reliable, Corolla is just OK in this respect and Audis in general are _not_ very reliable - although it could be case of a few models 'bringing down' the others in the marque.

Think all these are above average in terms of parts/service costs - Toyota maybe the cheapest? 

Audis can depreciate badly, Toyotas all hold value well and Civic, along with recent Mini keeps it's value better than almost any car. You should certainly get a 2002 5 door Civic for your money.

Toyota will probably deliver best extras etc for the money - Civic should be OK, but expect to pay for Audi extras

I've very little diesel experience so can't really comment there.

There is a recent thread, only a few days ago which talks about the process of buying in UK - sounds like hassle but worth it economically

(It's in the 'Car Depreciation' thread)



Hope this helps


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## RS2K (7 Jun 2007)

Gabriel said:


> If you search through the forum you'll find loads of posts on these very cars and comparing them.
> 
> Audi = overpriced but the pick of the bunch. Pricey for services.
> 
> ...



Agreed. Not many about though. Loads of 1.4's and LX's available.


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## Sunster (7 Jun 2007)

I'd go for the A3. The 2002 model isn't too different to the current model in terms of looks and ride. Buying used you get the opportunity to look out for the best colour and spec for your own needs. The second hand market is a buyers market so haggle hard if you see you one like. 
The A3 will probably be thirstier on fuel, more expensive to insure and just slightly more expensive to service....but then it is an Audi, what would one expect. Make sure there is full service history of course.
The Honda civic if you buy with the V-tec engine will be economical and run forever. However I don't think the 2002 civic and 2002 A3 compare really.
Would not consider the corolla. Nor would I the focus as good a car as it may be...think it looks very dated now compared to the present hatchbacks in the market....but if you like it, there are literally hundreds to choose from.


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## Bluebean (7 Jun 2007)

Thanks for all the replies.

I have to say, it doesn't bother me that the corolla is considered the most 'boring' car of the lot.  It's also the only one that I've test driven so far and I found it fine to drive.

I just don't like the focus, I agree with Sunster that they look a bit dated.  Also think there seems to be millions (only slight exaggeration!) of them on the road.  I just don't like the look of them.

Honda's reliability is fairly legend, which is good as it shouldn't cost me much in service/repairs.  I haven't driven one though, so no idea how they handle on the road.

Beginning to think that I'll earn it to find an audi for the 10k.  Also, seems v hard to find a 5-door a3.

Buying in UK, in spite of the hassle, seems to offer a better car for your buck.  What about Northern Ireland, is the value as good?

thanks again for all the input, much appreciated.


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## Sunster (7 Jun 2007)

5 door A3 are quite rare of that year as Audi at the time wanted to leave the 5 dr hatch back niche to their VW Golf. Good luck in your search


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## smokeybear (7 Jun 2007)

As the owner of a 02 Audi A3 I would advise staying away. VERY thirsty on petrol, VERY expensive to service or repair & quite a hard drive if you drive country roads like I do.
Having previously owned 2 Toyotas I will be going back to them when I change this Audi which will be soon!


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## Purple (7 Jun 2007)

Bluebean said:


> Also think there seems to be millions (only slight exaggeration!) of them on the road.


 Why do you think that is?


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## blueshoes (7 Jun 2007)

I see more corolla's on the road than anything else. My friend has a '03 civic and it might be reliable and all but god it's ugly.


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## Bluebean (8 Jun 2007)

ok, the Audi is out as most 02's seem to up close to the 13k mark, and also I drive a fair bit on country roads.  Fuel economy would be important to me also.

I'm sure the focus is a great car, and if all comes to all and I see one that is a real bargain then I will consider it - they just wouldn't be my first choice in terms of looks.  I would actually prefer the newer fiestas to the focus - should I consider a fiesta, or stick between the civic and the corolla?

I am leaning towards the corolla I have to admit.  

Will try and test drive a civic and another corolla over the next few days and see what feels right.

Thanks a million for all answers, it does help!


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## Gabriel (8 Jun 2007)

Please god nooooooo don't buy a Corolla!!!!!


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## Bluebean (8 Jun 2007)

But WHY not Gabriel?  I don't think the newer models look bad, they're reliable, seem to drive well, hold their value, are fuel efficient - what's the catch?!


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## soy (8 Jun 2007)

Most 'keen' drivers find the Corolla uninvolving to drive and many people also find it to be rather bland to look at (though this could be said for many of its peers also).
It would not be my choice, but if you are satisifed with the driving dynamics and like the look of it - then you will not go wrong with the corolla. It will be economical, reliable and safe.


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## Sunster (8 Jun 2007)

The whole point with this forum is to get different opinions...obviously everyone has different values and views and different taste in cars.
Gabriel may think the Corolla is boring...yet thinks the focus is more dynamic and exciting....that is debatable when you're talking about a 2002 car.....true the focus probably drives better when you are on a B road which might be important if you're doing country drives...but no use if you can't stand the look of the car. I think you ultimately need to look at a few different cars and come up with your own conclusion. 
5 door hatchbacks in 2002 are a touch choice..I'd probably look at the golf with TDI as they're easy to sell on...styling may not be exciting but brand is good, decent reliable and economical diesel engine, well finished inside and will probably be a desirable first car for someone when you decide to sell on a few years time.


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## Bluebean (8 Jun 2007)

I love getting everyone's different opinions, that's why I posted.

I'm just not sure if I understand when you say the focus might drive better - surely that would depend on who was driving it? I'm genuinely asking if I'm missing the point here - what would make one car 'harder' to drive than another? (I'm sure this could be seen as such a 'girlie' question, but if I don't ask, I'll never learn  )

Golfs are overpriced in my opinion, and parts and services are expensive compared to say, Ford or Toyota.

All I want is something that is solid on the road, with little or not 'giddiness' for want of a better word. Something that I won't feel knackered if I have to do a long journey in.

I suppose the other question I have is how come the 1.4 Focus seems to be pretty underpowered, whereas I have not seen anyone say that about the 1.4 Golf/Corolla/Civic? Is it because it does not have a Zetec engine?

Lastly, buying in from NI - is the value as good as in the UK?

thanks


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## Gabriel (8 Jun 2007)

The zetec engine has nothing to do with it.

Modern cars of that that size in 1.4 format are all underpowered due to the weight of the car (safety equipment etc).

Older jap cars get away with it cos they're lighter.

The Focus just is better to drive...it's recognised as the class leader for many years. Better driving dynamics, chassis, steering...the whole shebang.

At the end of the day it's you driving it. If the Toyota does it for you then go for it. I just find it too dull for words. But it will be reliable...

Btw...I don't think the Focus is "dynamic and exciting"...I think it's just more "dynamic and exciting" compared to its rivals in that particular class. And it is!

I doubt I'll ever be buying a small hatchback again for a long time...maybe for the little lady someday 

Buying from the UK you will save yourself a lot of money. But unless you're prepared to do all the research and the heartache of flying over, having the car checked etc then don't bother. Most people that I know of do it for higher end cars where the spec tends to be a lot better. You'll get no warranty doing it either...


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## RS2K (8 Jun 2007)

1.4 Golf is pretty underpowered too. Modern cars are heavier, due to safety mainly.

The Focus is the best riding and handlin car in it's class. Dynamically it has yet to be beaten. Ford's chassis technology is cutting edge. Independent suspension helps. The latest shape is from 2005, so it's still pretty fresh and new. The one thing it isn't is exclusive.

My view is a 1.6 litre engine is really essential in this class of car.


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## Caveat (8 Jun 2007)

Bluebean said:


> Is it because it does not have a Zetec engine?


 
more or less AFAIK - it's not a light car so the basic LX is no more powerful than a Micra

I think the 'drive better' comment is related to ride quality e.g. comfort, suspension etc - Focus is well known to have a snooth ride

Again, AFAIK, VRT etc considered you may not save much buying in NI - not nearly as cheap as mainland UK cars


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## RS2K (8 Jun 2007)

Caveat said:


> more or less AFAIK - it's not a light car so the basic LX is no more powerful than a Micra
> 
> I think the 'drive better' comment is related to ride quality e.g. comfort, suspension etc - Focus is well known to have a snooth ride
> 
> Again, AFAIK, VRT etc considered you may not save much buying in NI - not nearly as cheap as mainland UK cars



Latest 1.4 Duratec engine has 80bhp. It's adequate. The thing is that the 1.6 version has 100bhp for very little extra money and no appreciable difference in running costs. It's much better in normal driving, and able to better utilise the cars superior underpinnings. People get confused. Zetec is actually a model name, a sportier version than the LX.

The Focus has a good ride and excellent handling. That's a difficult balance to achieve. Ford's chassis and suspension people are ahead of the game.


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## dble8 (8 Jun 2007)

man! after going thru all that you might be better just getting a morry and have a classy ride all together.
It seems you have yr sites on the corolla, and they are up there with nothing should go wrong with them.if you're not into performance and a good reliable car then yr on a good thing with toyota. boring as hell to some but while they have put there car round the pole or throught the front fence 2 in the morning your boring car will be ready and waiting to take where you wanna be.
v tec, if you don't know what that is doesn't mean diddly.


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## Sunster (8 Jun 2007)

Zetec is also the name given to the Ford variable valve engine technology...


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## RS2K (8 Jun 2007)

Sunster said:


> Zetec is also the name given to the Ford variable valve engine technology...



Nope. It's actually called Ti-VCT. Available on Focus 1.6 Titanium & Ghia models, and the Focus ST. 

Should be on the new Mondeo but may not be.


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## Sunster (8 Jun 2007)

so the Cosworth Zetec used in the formula 1 car was just a model number?


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## john m (8 Jun 2007)

Initially the zetec engine was developed by Yamaha and Ford and a few years ago only zetec engined cars had this badge but now zetec refers only to interior spec. It tends to be an up spec car with sporty options. Nothing to do with engine these days.


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## Sunster (8 Jun 2007)

Thanks for the clarification...guess I'm a little out of date on Ford


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## RS2K (8 Jun 2007)

Ford has given the Zetec name to two different types of 16v engines. To  						confuse matters even more, Ford also badges some of their models as Zetec to  						denote that it is a sports version (usually with alloy wheels, sports  						suspension, spoilers, etc). A Zetec badged car therefore does not always have a  						Zetec engine under the bonnet! Zetec E - The original Zetec engine was fitted  						to Escort, Orion, Fiesta Mk3, Mondeo, Cougar and 1.8/2.0 Focus models. It has  						been produced in 1.6, 1.8 and 2.0 litre capacities. All engines produced up to  						April 98 use hydraulic followers, those built from May 98 were redesigned using  						mechanical followers. The con rods and pistons were also significantly changed  						with the later engines using a longer rod with a shorter compression height  						piston. These later engines are fitted in 1.8/2.0 Focus, Cougar and late Mk2  						Mondeo models. Zetec S - This is the baby Zetec as fitted to the post 95  						Fiesta, Puma and 1.4/1.6 Focus models. It has been produced in 1.25, 1.4, 1.6  						and 1.7 litre capacities. These engines bare no mechanical resemblance to the  						Zetec E engines. Most tuning parts are available only for the Zetec E engine.

The Duratec HE engine is the latest 4 cylinder engine from Fords that, due to  						it's near perfect dimensions and characteristics, provides an ideal platform  						for a performance engine that can be modified with relative ease. Built around  						an aluminium block, these engines weigh around 92kg (less clutch and  						alternator). As a natural progression from the Zetec E engine, the Duratec HE  						is rapidly becoming a popular transplant engine for classic RWD cars and kit  						cars. We are therefore able to supply most conversion parts for such  						applications (as we already provide for the Zetec E), along with a range of  						modified engine components. This engine has currently only been fitted to  						Mondeo models produced after 2001 and is available in 1.8 and 2.0 capacities. A  						2.3 version is also produced in the USA. It should not be confused with the  						Duratec V6 Mondeo engine or the new Duratec 1.3 and 1.6 SOHC engines that are  						being fitted to the latest Ka and StreetKa models (nice one Fords!!)


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## Sunster (8 Jun 2007)

All the genius' at Ford could have thought up some more names than call everything zetec!
At least Honda (VTec) have kept their consistency in this respect


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## Caveat (8 Jun 2007)

RS2K said:


> Ford has given the Zetec name to two different types of 16v engines. To                         confuse matters even more, Ford also badges some of their models as Zetec to                         denote that it is a sports version (usually with alloy wheels, sports                         suspension, spoilers, etc). A Zetec badged car therefore does not always have a                         Zetec engine under the bonnet! Zetec E - The original Zetec engine was fitted                         to Escort, Orion, Fiesta Mk3, Mondeo, Cougar and 1.8/2.0 Focus models. It has                         been produced in 1.6, 1.8 and 2.0 litre capacities. All engines produced up to                         April 98 use hydraulic followers, those built from May 98 were redesigned using                         mechanical followers. The con rods and pistons were also significantly changed                         with the later engines using a longer rod with a shorter compression height                         piston. These later engines are fitted in 1.8/2.0 Focus, Cougar and late Mk2                         Mondeo models. Zetec S - This is the baby Zetec as fitted to the post 95                         Fiesta, Puma and 1.4/1.6 Focus models. It has been produced in 1.25, 1.4, 1.6                         and 1.7 litre capacities. These engines bare no mechanical resemblance to the                         Zetec E engines. Most tuning parts are available only for the Zetec E engine.
> 
> The Duratec HE engine is the latest 4 cylinder engine from Fords that, due to                         it's near perfect dimensions and characteristics, provides an ideal platform                         for a performance engine that can be modified with relative ease. Built around                         an aluminium block, these engines weigh around 92kg (less clutch and                         alternator). As a natural progression from the Zetec E engine, the Duratec HE                         is rapidly becoming a popular transplant engine for classic RWD cars and kit                         cars. We are therefore able to supply most conversion parts for such                         applications (as we already provide for the Zetec E), along with a range of                         modified engine components. This engine has currently only been fitted to                         Mondeo models produced after 2001 and is available in 1.8 and 2.0 capacities. A                         2.3 version is also produced in the USA. It should not be confused with the                         Duratec V6 Mondeo engine or the new Duratec 1.3 and 1.6 SOHC engines that are                         being fitted to the latest Ka and StreetKa models (nice one Fords!!)


 
Jaysus...Right RS2K...If your knowledge extends to other marques I expect to hear from you pronto on my next car related post!


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## ang1170 (8 Jun 2007)

RS2K: you are either heavily involved professionally with Fords, or you definitely need to get out more. Just hope it's the former, for your sake....


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## Gabriel (8 Jun 2007)

Picturing RS2K wearing a rather large anorak


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## Sunster (8 Jun 2007)

With a huge ford badge


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## Caveat (8 Jun 2007)

BTW, maybe I'm slow but have only just copped:  RS2K = RS2000, as in Ford?

...we should have known all along!


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## Caveat (8 Jun 2007)

Ok back to the poster's dilemma...

Now looks like Audi is out but Focus maybe in?

In that case, personally speaking you can forget Corolla - nothing against it particularly but not in the same league as Civic or Focus.

Have driven both of these - both good cars but I would still say the Civic.  Focus has undoubtedly better ride quality and possibly better spec. for the money but the Civic is a good ride also, is more reliable, has better resale value and is roomier inside - _much_ roomier.

Don't know how important power and economy are but broadly speaking, ( i.e assuming you're not going for the most basic or the highest spec. versions of either)  I think it's fair to say that the Focus will be a bit more powerful but the Civic more economical.

The Civic has been described as ugly - I wouldn't say that. The 02 version  may be a bit 'sensible' looking but one aspect is, you may not care, but there's the sense of 'being different' - there are much less Civics than Focus on the road.  But of course appearance is very much a personal thing.

By the way, the 02 Civic will have a dash mounted gear - may strike as odd initially but trust me, you'll get used to it very quickly.

Well that's my last throw of the dice for the Civic - good luck with whatever you choose!!


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## Sunster (9 Jun 2007)

The original poster didnt like the look of the Focus which was why it was on the list. He did appreciate that it was a good car though


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## dble8 (9 Jun 2007)

well waddaya know!?! thanks for that RS2K,although I didn't lose any sleep over it, BUT!
i now have knowledge and thats a good thing
here's to all, have a good day cool tag too by the way,
if I was into ford my tag would've been MPV but thats a down under thing,


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## RS2K (9 Jun 2007)

Copy and paste guys - a gift. Info came from a tuners website.

I own a MkII Escort RS2000 btw


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