# Parents not supervising children in common areas



## shesells (4 May 2008)

We are having a problem in our development at the moment (and with the summer holidays fast approaching it's going to get worse). Basically some parents just won't supervise their children when they're outside.

We have a small playground and huge communal gardens - so where do some kids want to play?? The car park!!

Kids are darting in and out from between parked cars with cars coming in and out of the development. It is only a matter of time before there's an accident. Add that to accidental damage to cars and to the planting and it's basically something we need to stop. 

There is planting around the playground too and it's not malicious in anyway but the kids think nothing of running in and out of the plants, ripping leaves and branches off the shrubs and even attempting to climb the very young trees. We have trellis on the walls and balls are being kicked at the plants.

As owners we all pay the cost of replacing these, plus of insurance for the public areas. Quite simply I've had enough!

There's also another safety issue, unsupervised children may be targetted by undesirables or even "visiting teens" - we live quite near an area with not the best name and sometimes the teenagers decide to come across and hang out on the playground until the gardai move them on.

I am concerned on a couple of levels. One being the financial cost of repairs, one being the lack of parenting and the assumption that the kids will be fine. The final one is that something would happen to a child and even though we have a disclaimer up, if a child had an accident the parents could still claim under the developments insurance.

Regular newsletters go out asking people to supervise their children but it has zero effect on the families concerned.

Any suggestions?


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## amtc (4 May 2008)

Unfortunately no suggestions just sympathy. 

I think I live quite near you and yesterday, there was a bike 'parked' against my car, as 6/7 children spent their time racing round the front of my house (not their own!) for some hours. Part of me says it's nice to see them play - but they have back gardens and communal areas for that...


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## shesells (4 May 2008)

Glad to know I'm not alone. Hubby got his car back from the garage a couple of weeks ago after having a dent removed (he reversed into a skip). Next day there's a handlebar dent on the bonnet!

My thinking is would their parents let them play in the car park at a supermarket? Probably not. Here is smaller but the traffic level is proportional so the danger is real. I was always told as a child that a car park was very dangerous and not for playing in.


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## Orga (5 May 2008)

So in essence you want parents to "supervise" their children i.e ensure that they behave in a manner that you believe to be acceptable. If this is what you want then you need to communicate clearly to those parents what your behavioural expectations are. I'd be interested to see how the exchange goes.
However, if you can prove that their children have damaged your property then you have a strong case to go down the legal route - my advice - Don't!
Reason it out, build bridges, not legal cases.


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## extopia (5 May 2008)

You should always drive carefully in residential areas, including car parks, as the chances of hitting children or adults is great.

Children are boisterous, it's true. 

Your complaint sounds trivial.


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## shesells (5 May 2008)

Extopia - Sorry if you think my complaint is trivial, I am not complaining about the dent in the car it's about children running wild without supervision. 

Orga - it's not about wanting a certain type of behaviour. It's about ensuring that an adult is present on the playground or in the gardens with the kids to ensure that their children are safe. Most parents do supervise their children but three families don't. When one of the kids fell out of (and damaged) a young tree, the parents were nowhere to be seen, a neighbour cleaned him up. There's also been at least one case where the kids have been in the communal gardens and have gone into a ground floor apartment through an open patio door to look around. The owner there got a huge fright (the gardens are accessed from locked gates so the owner had the patio doors open to air the apartment.

I don't think it's safe for these children to play in the car park at all or on the playground (climbing frames etc) without an adult supervising them. They are lovely children but they don't seem to have any sense of danger and that scares me.

I am also sick of having to pay for replacement plants for the area around the car park and playground. The cost adds up really fast. In a neighbouring (sister) development children running unsupervised have done €5k+ worth of damage to plants and why should all owners have to foot the bill for damage done by few?


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## television (5 May 2008)

children like to play and they are not proggrammed like machines. let them play where ever they want. And in the old days the community would supervise kids i.e a sence of collective social responsibility.. let kids be kids and yea accidents will happen thats life. 

Developers should have ensured that developments are child friendly. If this was not done why not use your energy to advocate for better facilities for kids to play in. I feel sorry for kids having to play on an urban jungle like that


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## Orga (5 May 2008)

So you want to know how to get parents to supervise their kids? The answer: talk to the parents (go with other parents if you don't want to go yourself) or supervise the kids yourself or do so in concert with the other parents.
If the kids do damage then the parents may be held legally responsible.
My advice: this problem needs to be dealt with in person, sensitively but affirmatively.


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## shesells (5 May 2008)

Will try Orga. Was posting on here to see if anyone else had any experience of this before I call to the parents. Have to tread carefully as it's a sensitive area but one that its in everyones interest to deal with sooner rather than later.


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## europhile (5 May 2008)

It's not your job to speak to the parents, but that of the management company.  A friend of mine who lives in an apartment complex spoke to parents about unruly children and his car was keyed the following day. He doesn't think it was a coincidence.


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## shesells (5 May 2008)

Issue is I am a director of the management company so will be involved. One of the families has been written to before but no reply or action. We do regular newsletters too and they're ignored. Have spoken to one of the Dads before but he doesn't see it as a problem. He says he pays enough in management fees and his kids can play where they want to.


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## europhile (5 May 2008)

Sorry, I meant managing agent not management company.

Some other suggestions:

Bill him for any damage caused by his children.
Add a house rule banning children from playing in the car park and landscaped areas.  This should help you if one of them gets injured.


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## sparkeee (5 May 2008)

I think people see there own childhood through rose tinted specs,we were all a bit silly when we were kids,i caused scrapes and damage to things accidentally when younger,when it happens to my property now i see it as karma,what goes around comes around,vandalism would be a different issue,but kids have to play.


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## europhile (5 May 2008)

A car park is not an appropriate place for children to play.  Anybody who allows their child to play in a car park is an idiot at best.

The poster says there is a playground and large gardens in the development.


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## sparkeee (5 May 2008)

dsid you ever play where you shouldn't have when you were young,does this make your parents irresponsible.


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## europhile (5 May 2008)

Of course I did but had my parents found out, I wouldn't have done it again.


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## sparkeee (5 May 2008)

aha,so had your parents found out,lets not get on our high horses so quick,dont throw stones in a glass house,there only kids,inform their parents,continue to do so,Rome wasn't built in a day.


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## europhile (5 May 2008)

Pardon?


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## sparkeee (5 May 2008)

By your own pen parents who's children play in inappropiate areas are,and i quote you,"are at best idiots".you yourself said you played in these areas but were never caught,what exactly are you saying.I dont agree,I feel all children play in inappropriate areas at some time in their lives.Tell there parents,give it time and maybe things will get better.


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## europhile (5 May 2008)

Perhaps you should re-read my posts - you might have a better understanding of what I was saying.


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## extopia (6 May 2008)

europhile said:


> A friend of mine who lives in an apartment complex spoke to parents about unruly children and his car was keyed the following day.  It doesn't think it was a coincidence.



Why not?


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## liaconn (6 May 2008)

television said:


> children like to play and they are not proggrammed like machines. let them play where ever they want. And in the old days the community would supervise kids i.e a sence of collective social responsibility.. let kids be kids and yea accidents will happen thats life.


 
That's all very well, but in the old days people didn't sue at the drop of a hat. I can understand shesells concerns. Also, in the old days you could rely on parental back up if you supervised their children. Nowadays, if you tell off a child, you're just as likely to have an indignant mother or father on  your doorstep.


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## so-crates (6 May 2008)

shesells said:


> ...Have spoken to one of the Dads before but he doesn't see it as a problem. He says he pays enough in management fees and his kids can play where they want to.


 
By the sounds of it he seems to think that child care is included in his management fees!

Hi Seashells, thankfully I don't have a similar experience to report and I think you are right to be concerned, it is irresponsible of parents to assume that others will watch out for their children and while I don't think that a child needs to be watched every second, it isn't unreasonable to ask of neighbours that they tolerate unacceptable behaviour from their offspring. 
Have you spoken to the children involved? Do any of the adults (aside from their parents) tell them not to play in the carpark? Or correct them when they do so? It would be a pain and they may not react well at first but at least then you would be addressing the problem directly to the perpetrators as well as re-inforcing it with remonstrances to their parents. An adult seeing a child behaving in a manner that is a danger to them should always try and correct the child in the absence of any evident parental presence, following it up if necessary with the parent. It might cause some aggravation at first (especially if they are the sort of parent who defends their offspring irrespective of how bad the behaviour out of some misplaced sense of being corrected themselves) but say it often enough and have enough adults engaged this way the bad behaviour should diminish over time. 
Presenting their parents with a bill each time they damage property should also cause a reaction - probably not the most positive one though by the sounds of your neighbour above!


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## television (6 May 2008)

parents have a lot to answer for I aggree liaconn.


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## shesells (7 May 2008)

Liaconn there is a complicating factor in that not all of the 3 families are Irish so there is a language issue but we have tried to show the kids how dangerous the car park is and point out that the garden is safer but it goes in one ear and out the other. Have spoken to one Dad but he's the one insisting he pays enough and his children can play where they want to...not sure if he knows that they got into a neighbours apartment though!


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## truthseeker (7 May 2008)

shesells said:


> ...not sure if he knows that they got into a neighbours apartment though!


 
Why dont you tell him that then? He might take it a bit more seriously if he finds out the kids are trespassing.


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## DianeC401 (8 May 2008)

Hi Shesells, I sympathise and know exactly what you are talking about. We had the same problem in our apartment block two years ago which we did manage to tackle effectively, although it took some time...
Firstly we amended our house rules to address this and wrote to all residents letting them know the changes, stressing that it was the safety of the children that was our primary motivation.  In addition we pointed out the insurance liability. 
Secondly, we have a zero tolerance approach when it comes to vandalism. Although a few broken plants may seem trivial to some, having to repeatedly repair and replenish these can cost a fair bit of money. We impose fines for breaches of house rules and request payment for any repair costs incurred. If the culprits are owner occupiers we contact them directly but if they are tenants we go straight to their landlord and hold the landlord responsible for the behaviour of their tenants.  This has proven to be highly effective and over a period of two years our development has improved hugely.  Good luck!


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## Traceybere (20 May 2008)

Hi OP,

We have a simular issue at the moment - there is kids everywhere running all over the flower beds at the front of the house and climbing on the walls of the corner houses. 

Last week after 3 of my trees were uprooted from the ground I spoke to one of my neighbours about his child. TBH he was mortified - very apolegetic and offered to replace the trees. Now I have a little one myself and I know kids will be kids but since I spoke to him the suituation isn't as bad.  Hope this helps


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