# Review of Quangos in Ireland



## dewdrop (14 Oct 2010)

This process is ongoing here for ages yet the British Government only recently in power have announced far reaching review of their Quangos. Maybe we could learn from them especially in this hour of need


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## ninsaga (14 Oct 2010)

Tell me when you will be mine...
Quango Quango Quango Quaaaannngo

....eh sorry - I couldn't help that folks


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## micmclo (14 Oct 2010)

Should be looked at alright.

When the bould JOD was minister for Justice, what do you know? It was discovered the good people of Kerry were caring, articulate and humanitarian people. 
As the Prison Visiting Committee was stacked with people from Kerry.

No doubt it happens elsewhere.

And it doesn't even make much difference in expenditure but why was the Department of the Fisheries decentralized to Cavan? 
Even if it saved no money couldn't they select a county with a port? Symbolic reasons even. A county where people have lost people to the cruel sea.

Have we a Mac the Knife to sort this out?


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## PaddyW (15 Oct 2010)

micmclo said:


> Should be looked at alright.
> 
> When the bould JOD was minister for Justice, what do you know? It was discovered the good people of Kerry were caring, articulate and humanitarian people.
> As the Prison Visiting Committee was stacked with people from Kerry.
> ...



I'm from Kerry and I consider myself to be a caring, articulate and humanitarian person. Fecker never put me on the Committee. Damn him anyways!


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## Shawady (15 Oct 2010)

Colm McCarthy looked at them in his ABS report last year. He suggested the abolition or merging of many of them but only a minority of his recommendations have been acted on.


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## Sunny (15 Oct 2010)

We just like to talk about things in this Country. We don't like actually doing things apart from setting up review groups, committees, expert panels etc and then ignore the results. Every day in the UK, annoucements of huge cuts get made and the Country survives. Here, we talk about 4 year plans, budget day announcements etc. Not everything has to be announced on one day a year. If there are savings to be made and the Government have identified them, make the bloody savings.


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## PaddyW (15 Oct 2010)

ninsaga said:


> Tell me when you will be mine...
> Quango Quango Quango Quaaaannngo
> 
> ....eh sorry - I couldn't help that folks



Great, you'l;l have me singing that all day now!!


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## Mpsox (15 Oct 2010)

Hopefully the movement on the VECs will be the start of something, especially as it goes farther then the Mccarthy report suggested. I thought it was interesting to hear local politicians bleeting about it and the effect it will have on services. I don't believe anyone is saying services will be cut, just organised more efficiently and as part of that, there will be less committees for councilers to sit on and get paid for talking

However, I'm sturggling to see how they can make real efficiency savings if quangos and the VECs are covered under the Croke Park agreement which say no compulsary redundancies


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## Staples (15 Oct 2010)

ninsaga said:


> Tell me when you will be mine...
> Quango Quango Quango Quaaaannngo
> 
> ....eh sorry - I couldn't help that folks


 
Brilliant.  Can picture myself giving that stick at the next wedding.


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## shnaek (15 Oct 2010)

Mpsox said:


> However, I'm sturggling to see how they can make real efficiency savings if quangos and the VECs are covered under the Croke Park agreement which say no compulsary redundancies


True. What's the bets a HSE-Health Boards type solution will be implemented, where quangos will be merged so it looks like there's less of them, but nobody will be let go so it will be an exercise in window dressing? Then they'll be able to say - look, we only have a handful of quangos now! And there'll be a hundred thousand admins in there.


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## QED (15 Oct 2010)

It was in local paper that Clare and Tipp VEC's are to be amalgamated but that there will be no job losses. 

This is good for the people involved but if this is 'reform' we are in big trouble!


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## michaelm (15 Oct 2010)

We should start with a blank sheet of paper and write down the quangos we actually need . . all others should be scrapped . . I'd be aiming for a number in the teens.


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## Shawady (15 Oct 2010)

Mpsox said:


> However, I'm sturggling to see how they can make real efficiency savings if quangos and the VECs are covered under the Croke Park agreement which say no compulsary redundancies


 
I don't know about Quangos, but I would be hopeful that numbers could be reduced in the general civil/public service by natural wastage over the next 4 to5 years. There are thousands that retire each year and with a bit of flexibility and a willingness of employees to do a bit more with less, the government should be able to streamline many areas.


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## Staples (15 Oct 2010)

Mpsox said:


> there will be less committees for councilers to sit on and get paid for talking


 
Wouldn't that by itself be a good result?  These are jobs for the boys with no great impact.  Excellent opportunity to trim the fat.


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## RonanC (15 Oct 2010)

The following is well worth a read and is the most up to date report on "Quango's"

[broken link removed]


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## cork (15 Oct 2010)

The UK govt. has tackled quangos, social welfare, higher education grants etc

Why is Ireland dragging their heals?


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## becky (15 Oct 2010)

shnaek said:


> True. What's the bets a HSE-Health Boards type solution will be implemented, where quangos will be merged so it looks like there's less of them, but nobody will be let go so it will be an exercise in window dressing? Then they'll be able to say - look, we only have a handful of quangos now! And there'll be a hundred thousand admins in there.


 
The HSE is moving to Intergrated Servcies Areas.  The ISA for the area I'm in will be Limerick, Clare and Tipp North.  I believe the the plan is to have 8 or 9 of them in the country, so in other words back to the old health board structure.


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## Chris (15 Oct 2010)

Sunny said:


> We just like to talk about things in this Country. We don't like actually doing things apart from setting up review groups, committees, expert panels etc and then ignore the results. Every day in the UK, annoucements of huge cuts get made and the Country survives. Here, we talk about 4 year plans, budget day announcements etc. Not everything has to be announced on one day a year. If there are savings to be made and the Government have identified them, make the bloody savings.


I agree. The fate of this country was sealed when a government commissioned report (McCarthy) was ridiculed and pretty much ignored. I think I heard McCarthy on the radio a while back saying that less than 5% of his recommendations are being actually contemplated, let alone implemented.
Identify areas where savings are possible and start on implementation. Don't wait until some magical date in the future.



michaelm said:


> We should start with a blank sheet of paper and write down the quangos we actually need . . all others should be scrapped . . I'd be aiming for a number in the teens.


I would love to see this happen, but I imagine that same piece of paper would have the same doom as the McCarthy report.



Shawady said:


> I don't know about Quangos, but I would be hopeful that numbers could be reduced in the general civil/public service by natural wastage over the next 4 to5 years. There are thousands that retire each year and with a bit of flexibility and a willingness of employees to do a bit more with less, the government should be able to streamline many areas.


The problem with this approach is that certain services are a lot more important than others and you could end up with too few resources in one area, but still too many in another. And it doesn't address the problem of reducing unnecessary or useless services or quangos.



cork said:


> The UK govt. has tackled quangos, social welfare, higher education grants etc
> 
> Why is Ireland dragging their heals?


I would love to know this too. Ireland has been on the brink of total collapse for 2 years. The new UK government has been in power for a few months. It is a picture perfect example of total incompetence. And I am not filled with any confidence when it comes to the opposition.


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## Slash (15 Oct 2010)

cork said:


> The UK govt. has tackled quangos, social welfare, higher education grants etc



Not quite. They have a series of proposals, but few actual decisions as yet.


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## Chris (15 Oct 2010)

Slash said:


> Not quite. They have a series of proposals, but few actual decisions as yet.



Yes indeed, and political incompetence has no boundaries. But they have taken one step further than Ireland has.


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## Shawady (15 Oct 2010)

Chris said:


> The problem with this approach is that certain services are a lot more important than others and you could end up with too few resources in one area, but still too many in another. And it doesn't address the problem of reducing unnecessary or useless services or quangos.


 
I don't think this approach would solve all problems but there is definitely potential to get sections to do the same work with less people. Not so much slashing the numbers, but even a 10-15% reduction in numbers would represent a saving of a couple of billion euro.


Re: Mc Carthy report. There was never any serious attempt to implement it from day one. Remember it was refered to as 'a menu of options', even though it was pointed out to the government it needed 3 times the savings of the ABS report.

I honestly believe that everyone got caught up in the whole public versus private debate and this allowed ABS and the taxation report to be moth-balled.


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## CMCR (15 Oct 2010)

Chris said:


> Yes indeed, and political incompetence has no boundaries. But they have taken one step further than Ireland has.


 
I don't necessarily agree.  The series on Morning Ireland which has been on over the last few mornings (including this morning) has outlined savings that have been achieved by Department on implementing recommendations of the McCarthy Report.


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## CMCR (15 Oct 2010)

[Error - this post is duplicated.  Mods, please delete]


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## Complainer (15 Oct 2010)

michaelm said:


> We should start with a blank sheet of paper and write down the quangos we actually need . . all others should be scrapped . . I'd be aiming for a number in the teens.


So start your list, Michael...


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## TarfHead (15 Oct 2010)

The Irish Human Right Council incurred salary costs of €1.2m in 2008.

The 'WHAT WE DO' section lists a number of areas, mainly around the promotion of awareness and debate around human rights.

Could this be done for less - overall spend was €2.4m.
Would abuse hurtle into the vacuum created by the abolition of this QUANGO ?

Are there more pressing needs for that level of spend ?


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## moneyhoney (15 Oct 2010)

TarfHead said:


> The 'WHAT WE DO' section lists a number of areas, mainly around the promotion of awareness and debate around human rights.



Doesn't Amnesty do this also???


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## Staples (15 Oct 2010)

Complainer said:


> So start your list, Michael...


 
Mt thoughts exactly.

Easy to say - not so easy to do.

I find it odd at times that many of those who would advocate a "private sector" approach to public service provision would also advocate the abolition of agencies who were set up bring a certain amount of specialised expertise to the provision of public services.  

In most cases, there were very good reasons for the creation of these agencies at the outset.  Now that we're skint, we can call them all "quangos" which must of course mean that they're all white elephants with the sole function of providing jobs for the boys.

When they've all been closed down, consider then whether the holy grail of "efficiencies" has been achieved (assuming people even have a thought-through sense of what this term actually means).


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## Slash (16 Oct 2010)

Breaking News:

The Government has decided to abolish all quangos, except one. That quango will look into the environmental aspect of the Eiffel Tower.

It will be know as the last quango in Paris.


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## z107 (17 Oct 2010)

Quangos will not be abolished for the following reasons:

1. They are cushy numbers for ex-politicians and their friends.
2. Many of them wield power, that might threaten the government.
3. It won't do the unemployment figures any good.

So until the IMF/EU visit, we're stuck with them.


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## Complainer (17 Oct 2010)

umop3p!sdn said:


> Quangos will not be abolished for the following reasons:
> 
> 1. They are cushy numbers for ex-politicians and their friends.
> 2. Many of them wield power, that might threaten the government.
> ...



There may be some truth in 1 and 3, but 2 doesn't hold any more. The Govt sent a clear message to quangos about what happens if they actually attempt to hold the Govt to account when the emasculated the Equality Authority with a 43% budget cut (at a time when there was no real budget issue). There was a very clear message there to keep your head down  and your mouth shut.


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## shammy feen (17 Oct 2010)

Slash said:


> Not quite. They have a series of proposals, but few actual decisions as yet.


 
They probably need to set up a highly paid non governmental committee/body  to address the issue...


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## shnaek (18 Oct 2010)

Complainer said:


> So start your list, Michael...



There's an interesting thread on this on politics.ie - 
[broken link removed]


This is the list of 170 existing quangos that they provide:

Agriculture, Fisheries and Food Sea Fisheries Protection Authority 2007
Arts, Sport and Tourism National Sports Campus Development Authority 2007
Communications, Energy & Natural
Resources
National Oil Reserves Agency 2007
TG4 2007
Enterprise, Trade and Employment High Level Group on Business Regulation 2007
Enterprise, Trade and Employment National Consumer Agency 2007
Enterprise, Trade and Employment National Employment Rights Authority 2007
Limerick Northside Regeneration Agency 2007
Environment, Heritage and Local
Government
Health and Children Children Acts Advisory Board 2007
Health and Children Health & Social Care Professionals Council 2007
Health and Children HIQA 2007
Health and Children National Cancer Screening Services Board 2007
Health and Children National Paediatric Hospital Development Board 2007
Transport and the Marine Railway Safety Advisory Council 2007
Foreign Affairs Hunger Task Force 2007
Arts, Sport and Tourism Abbey Theatre (Amharclann na Mainistreach) 2006
Arts, Sport and Tourism Crawford Gallery Cork 2006
Arts, Sport and Tourism Fáilte Ireland (National Tourism Development Authority) Community, Rural and Gaeltacht 2006
Dormant Accounts Board 2006
Communications, Energy & Natural resources 2006
Eirgrid 2006
Education and Sciences Education Finance Board 2006
Education and Sciences Grangegorman Development Agency 2006
Education and Sciences The Teaching Council 2006
Enterprise, Trade and Employment IAASA 2006
Health and Children Health Repayment Scheme Appeals Office 2006
Justice, Equality and Law Reform Local Registration of Deeds and Title Rules Committee Justice, Equality and Law Reform Private Security Appeals Board 2006
Justice, Equality and Law Reform Garda Siochana Ombudsman Commission 2006
Justice, Equality and Law Reform Garda Siochana Inspectorate 2006
Justice, Equality and Law Reform Mental Health Criminal Law Review Board 2006
Transport and the Marine Railway Safety Commission 2006
Transport and the Marine Integrated Ticketing Project Board 2006
Justice, Equality and Law Reform Property Registration Authority 2006
Arts, Sport and Tourism Culture Ireland 2005
Arts, Sport and Tourism National Museum of Ireland 2005
Community, Rural and Gaeltacht 2006
Pobal 2005
Western Development Commission 2005
Enterprise, Trade and Employment Small Business Forum - Implementation Group 2005
Environment, Heritage and Local Governm,ent 2005
Affordable Homes Partnership 2005
Health and Children Health Service Executive 2005
Justice, Equality and Law Reform National Property Services Regulatory Authority 2005
Justice, Equality and Law Reform Commission for the Support of Victims of Crime 2005
Comhairle na Tuaithe 2004
Oifig Choimisinéir na d'Teangacha Oifigiúla 2004
Fóram na Gaeilge 2004
Enterprise, Trade and Employment Personal Injuries Assessment Board 2004
Environment, Heritage and Local Government
Private Residential Tenancies Board 2004
Health and Children National Haemophilia Council 2004
Health and Children National Treatment Purchase Fund 2004
Health and Children Irish Expert Body on Fluorides and Health 2004
Justice, Equality and Law Reform Private Security Authority 2004
Justice, Equality and Law Reform Independent Monitoring Commission 2004
Finance Credit Union Advisory Committee 2004
Finance Outside Appointments Board 2004
Finance Irish Financial Services Appeals Tribunal 2004
Finance Financial Services Ombudsman Council 2004
Finance Financial Services Consultative Consumer Panel 2004
Finance Financial Services Consultative Industry Panel 2004
Transport and the Marine Commission for Taxi Regulation 2004
Transport and the Marine Dublin Airport Authority 2004
Transport and the Marine Shannon Airport Authority 2004
Transport and the Marine Cork Airport Authority 2004
Regional Drugs Taskforces (10) 2003
Communications, Energy & Natural resources 2006
Digital Hub Development Agency 2003
Defence Civil Defence Board 2003
Education and Sciences National Council for Special Education 2003
Education and Sciences State Examinations Commission 2003
Foreign Affairs Development Education Advisory Committee 2003
Justice, Equality and Law Reform Remembrance Commission 2003
Finance Decentralisation Implementation Group 2003
Finance National Development Finance Agency 2003
Finance Central Bank and Financial Services Authority of Ireland 2003
Finance Irish Financial Services Regulatory Authority 2003
Social and Family Affairs Family Support Agency 2003
Transport and the Marine Advisory Council to the Commission for Taxi Regulation 2003
Social and Family Affairs Office of the Pensions Ombudsman 2003
Agriculture, Fisheries and Food Consumer Liaison Panel 2002
Agriculture, Fisheries and Food Farm Animal Welfare Advisory Council 2002
Communications, Energy & Natural 2002
Commission for Communications Regulation 2002
Communications, Energy & Natural resources 2002
Sustainable Energy Ireland 2002
Education and Sciences National Education Welfare Board 2002
Education and Sciences National Adult Learning Council 2002
Enterprise, Trade and Employment Irish Council for Bioethics 2002
Foreign Affairs Advisory Board for Irish Aid 2002
Health and Children Mental Health Commission 2002
Health and Children Office for Tobacco Control 2002
Justice, Equality and Law Reform Office of the Inspector of Prisons 2002
Finance Ordnance Survey Ireland 2002
Finance State Claims Agency Policy Committee 2002
Transport and the Marine The Marine Casualty Investigation Board 2002
Agriculture, Fisheries and Food RELAY 2001
Arts, Sport and Tourism Horse Racing Ireland 2001
National Monitoring Committee Overseeing the Operation of repid programme 2001
Education and Sciences Further Education and Training Awards Council 2001
Education and Sciences Higher Education and Training Awards Council 2001
Education and Sciences Irish Research Council for Science, Engineering and technology Education and Sciences National Qualifications Authority of Ireland 2001
Education and Sciences National Youth Work Advisory Council 2001
Enterprise, Trade and Employment Competition Law Review Group 2001
Enterprise, Trade and Employment Office of the Directors Corporate Enforcement 2001
Taoiseach National Economic and Social Development Office 2001
Taoiseach National Centre for Partnership and Performance 2001
Taoiseach Ireland Newfoundland Partnership Board 2001
Taoiseach National Forum on Europe 2001
Health and Children Crisis Pregnancy Agency 2001
Health and Children Dental Council 2001
Health and Children Health Insurance Authority 2001
Health and Children National Children's Advisory Council 2001
Justice, Equality and Law Reform Parole Board 2001
Justice, Equality and Law Reform Midlands Prison Visiting Committee 2001
Finance Committee for Performance Awards 2001
Finance National Pensions Reserve Commission 2001
Transport and the Marine Railway Procurement Agency 2001
Transport and the Marine Commission for Aviation Regulation 2001
Arts, Sport and Tourism Tourism Ireland (North/South Body) 2000
National Advisory Committee on Drugs 2000
National Salmon Commission 2000
Education and Sciences Irish Research Council for the Humanities and social sciences 2000
Enterprise, Trade and Employment Advisory Science Council 2000
Enterprise, Trade and Employment National Framework Committee for Work/Life Balance Enterprise, Trade and Employment Science Foundation Ireland 2000
Health and Children Pre Hospital Emergency Care Council 2000
Health and Children Food Safety Consultative Council 2000
Health and Children Scientific Committee of the Food Safety Authority 2000
Justice, Equality and Law Reform National Disability Authority 2000
Justice, Equality and Law Reform Internet Advisory Board 2000
Justice, Equality and Law Reform Office of the Refugee Applications Commissioner 2000
Justice, Equality and Law Reform Refugee Appeals Tribunal 2000
Justice, Equality and Law Reform Cloverhill Prison Visiting Committee 2000
Finance Public Services Benchmarking Body 2000
Social and Family Affairs Citizens Information Board 2000
Arts, Sport and Tourism Irish Sports Council 1999
Bord o Ulstér-Scotch 1999
Foras na Gaeilge 1999
Waterways Ireland 1999
Commission for Energy Regulation 1999
Communications, Energy & Natural Resources 1999
Mining Board 1999
Foyle, Carlingford and Irish Lights Commission 1999
Education and Sciences Integrated Ireland Language and Training Ltd 1999
Enterprise, Trade and Employment InterTrade Ireland 1999
Enterprise, Trade and Employment Skillsnet Limited 1999
Comhar Sustainable Development Council 1999
Environment, Heritage and Local Government 1999
Irish Water Safety 1999
National Traveller Accommodation Committee 1999
Health and Children Food Safety Authority of Ireland 1999
Health and Children Food Safety Promotion Board 1999
Health and Children Institute of Public Health 1999
Health and Children National Council for the Professional Development of Nursing and Midwifery 1999
Health and Children St Luke's Hospital Board 1999
Health and Children National Childcare Coordinating Committee 1999
Justice, Equality and Law Reform Equality Authority 1999
Justice, Equality and Law Reform Independent Monitoring Committee for Refugee Legal Services 1999
Justice, Equality and Law Reform Courts Services 1999
Justice, Equality and Law Reform Independent Commission for the Location of Victims Remains 1999
Justice, Equality and Law Reform Prisons Authority Interim Board 1999
Justice, Equality and Law Reform National Crime Council 1999
Finance Special EU Programmes Body 1999
Finance Civil Service Arbitration Board 1999
Agriculture, Fisheries and Food Aquaculture Licences Appeals 1998
Arts, Sport and Tourism Council of National Cultural Institutions 1998
Education and Sciences Tipperary Institute 1998
Enterprise, Trade and Employment Enterprise Ireland 1998



There is a list of 259 on this link:
[broken link removed]


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## Chris (18 Oct 2010)

Thanks Shnaek. Here is one that just jumped out at me: "Transport and the Marine Integrated Ticketing Project Board 2006"
How useless and incompetent is this body? Now I don't use public transport much, but it was posted somewhere here at AAM recently that there is still no integrated ticket available in Ireland. We've been paying these guys for 4 years to come up with nothing!!!!
I'm not going to depress myself by trying to find out what some of these bodies actually are meant to be doing.


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## Chris (18 Oct 2010)

CMCR said:


> I don't necessarily agree.  The series on Morning Ireland which has been on over the last few mornings (including this morning) has outlined savings that have been achieved by Department on implementing recommendations of the McCarthy Report.



I was referring to the identification of quangos to be scrapped in the UK. This has not happened in Ireland, it hasn't even been mentioned. As for implementations mentioned on Morning Ireland, these could well be the 5% of recommendations that McCarthy mentioned a while back, that are being implemented. 
The biggest savings that McCarthy identified were a cut in social welfare payments, cut in public pensions and a reduction in state employees by I think 17000. None of these have happened, and the country is now in worse shape than it was at the time of the report.


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## Complainer (18 Oct 2010)

Chris said:


> Thanks Shnaek. Here is one that just jumped out at me: "Transport and the Marine Integrated Ticketing Project Board 2006"
> How useless and incompetent is this body? Now I don't use public transport much, but it was posted somewhere here at AAM recently that there is still no integrated ticket available in Ireland. We've been paying these guys for 4 years to come up with nothing!!!!


Just for the record, this board has no employees. It consists of representatives from other public and private sector bodies.

Yes, the delays on the project have been crazy, but let's pretend that the board is a 'quango'.


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## Chris (18 Oct 2010)

Complainer said:


> Just for the record, this board has no employees. It consists of representatives from other public and private sector bodies.
> 
> Yes, the delays on the project have been crazy, but let's pretend that the board is a 'quango'.



While it is reassuring that it has no actual employees, I would imagine that the members have been involved in many "fact finding missions" and other nice get-togethers in nice places at the expense of the taxpayer, with zero results. I'm happy to stand corrected on these claims if someone has information on this quango's expenses for the past 4 years.
I did a quick google search for this board and it turns out that the "National Transport Authority" and the "Railway Procurement Agency" have been mandated with the same task: http://www.transport.ie/about/bodies_under_the_aegis_of_the_Department.asp?lang=ENG&loc=2562
How many agencies, bodies, quangos, call it what you will, are needed to achieve precisely nothing? I know that this alone won't save the state's finances, but this is an incredible indictment of the totally cavalier attitude towards taxpayers' money, by politicians and senior civil servants, and god only knows how much else is being wasted at our expense.


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## Complainer (18 Oct 2010)

Chris said:


> While it is reassuring that it has no actual employees, I would imagine that the members have been involved in many "fact finding missions" and other nice get-togethers in nice places at the expense of the taxpayer, with zero results. I'm happy to stand corrected on these claims if someone has information on this quango's expenses for the past 4 years.
> I did a quick google search for this board and it turns out that the "National Transport Authority" and the "Railway Procurement Agency" have been mandated with the same task: http://www.transport.ie/about/bodies_under_the_aegis_of_the_Department.asp?lang=ENG&loc=2562


Can I suggest that we don't build public policy around your imagination? If you have some facts, let's get them out there. But please spare us the vagaries of your imagination.

It is not at all surprising that the NTA and RPA have these same mandates, as their staff are directly involved in this board.


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## Chris (18 Oct 2010)

Complainer said:


> Can I suggest that we don't build public policy around your imagination? If you have some facts, let's get them out there. But please spare us the vagaries of your imagination.


Complainer, I just cannot share or understand your belief that the state is anything but wasteful at all levels and in all its dealings. Week after week we get more information about total and utter disregard for taxpayers' money, whether it be personal or department expenses. And when suggestions are made to cut wastage they are ridiculed and largely ignored, and to add even more insult, agreements are made to not cut public sector wages.
How then is my imagination in any way vagarious. Do you think this country would be in such a mess if the government was even remotely apporprately using tax revenue? I have seen absolutely nothing to suggest even a small bit of improvement in the public finances. Unless that happens you will just have to put up with my opinion and imagination, as I have exactly zero faith in the political elite of this country and their willingness, let alone ability, to sort out the mess they helped create.



Complainer said:


> It is not at all surprising that the NTA and RPA have these same mandates, as their staff are directly involved in this board.


I'm not surprised either, but for quite the opposite reasons. The time and effort that went into creating this board was totally and utterly wasted. Even putting the board into existance on paper was a waste of the paper.


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## Complainer (18 Oct 2010)

Chris said:


> Complainer, I just cannot share or understand your belief that the state is anything but wasteful at all levels and in all its dealings. Week after week we get more information about total and utter disregard for taxpayers' money, whether it be personal or department expenses. And when suggestions are made to cut wastage they are ridiculed and largely ignored, and to add even more insult, agreements are made to not cut public sector wages.
> How then is my imagination in any way vagarious. Do you think this country would be in such a mess if the government was even remotely apporprately using tax revenue? I have seen absolutely nothing to suggest even a small bit of improvement in the public finances. Unless that happens you will just have to put up with my opinion and imagination, as I have exactly zero faith in the political elite of this country and their willingness, let alone ability, to sort out the mess they helped create.


Do you think the articles on 'Govt agency does quite a nice job on something' will get through the Indo's sub-editing? 

Of course, you get all the bad news in the media. That doesn't mean that the other 99% of the public sector isn't quitely keeping its head down and providing decent public services. Please let's not run the country based on the Sunday Indo's headlines.


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## Mpsox (18 Oct 2010)

Chris said:


> The time and effort that went into creating this board was totally and utterly wasted. Even putting the board into existance on paper was a waste of the paper.


 
The NTA are a new entity that is planned will take over some of the responsibilites from the RPA. The staff working for the RPA on the integrated ticketing scheme are scheduled to move to the NTA in 2011. Once that happens, the RPA responsibilites for Integrated ticketing will cease. The NTA has one fundamental difference from the RPA in that the NTA has the power to tell transport providers what to do, the RPA for the most part can only ask. That should allow for schemes such as Integrated Ticketing to run more smoothly

A board like this is often the norm for any multi-million € project. I don't work in the public sector but where I work in the private sector, such boards made up of supplier and customer directors are common place for large projects as part of the overall governance process.

The NTA is also taking over the Office for Taxi regulation so that will be one quango gone


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## Slash (18 Oct 2010)

Complainer said:


> Just for the record, this board has no employees. It consists of representatives from other public and private sector bodies.



How can it have no employees? According to Tommy Brougham TD, €50 million had been spent on this non-project up to the end of 2009, and not a single integrated ticket has been produced.


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## Mpsox (19 Oct 2010)

Slash said:


> How can it have no employees? According to Tommy Brougham TD, €50 million had been spent on this non-project up to the end of 2009, and not a single integrated ticket has been produced.


 
The scheme is a project that is being currently funded by the RPA and in time, will move to the NTA which has more powers. The board is made up of senior members of the RPA, NTA, and probably the public and private transport operators that will be using the scheme. Therefore it is correct to say that the board has no employees, the board members work elsewhere and this project is part of their role as employees of those other organisations


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## shnaek (19 Oct 2010)

Why do we, as a small island with a tiny population, have a department of health, and also a HSE? And then a load of agencies such as:
Health and Children Children Acts Advisory Board 2007
Health and Children Health & Social Care Professionals Council 2007
Health and Children HIQA 2007
Health and Children National Cancer Screening Services Board 2007
Health and Children National Paediatric Hospital Development Board 2007
Health and Children National Haemophilia Council 2004
Health and Children National Treatment Purchase Fund 2004
Health and Children Irish Expert Body on Fluorides and Health 2004
Health and Children Mental Health Commission 2002
Health and Children Office for Tobacco Control 2002
Health and Children Crisis Pregnancy Agency 2001
Health and Children Dental Council 2001
Health and Children Health Insurance Authority 2001
Health and Children National Children's Advisory Council 2001
Health and Children Pre Hospital Emergency Care Council 2000
Health and Children Food Safety Consultative Council 2000
Health and Children Scientific Committee of the Food Safety Authority 2000
Health and Children Food Safety Authority of Ireland 1999
Health and Children Food Safety Promotion Board 1999
Health and Children Institute of Public Health 1999
Health and Children National Council for the Professional Development of Nursing and Midwifery 1999
Health and Children St Luke's Hospital Board 1999
Health and Children National Childcare Coordinating Committee 1999?

And despite all this, we have a turd of a health service.


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## Towger (19 Oct 2010)

shnaek said:


> Why do we, as a small island with a tiny population, have a department of health, and also a HSE?


 
Why else but, jobs for the 'Boys'..


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## RonanC (19 Oct 2010)

shnaek said:


> Why do we, as a small island with a tiny population....... have a load of agencies


 
The answer to this is in their title. 



shnaek said:


> Why do we, as a small island with a tiny population, have a department of health, and also a HSE?


 
The Dep of Health and Children adpots policy and implements it. The HSE manages and delivers it. 

Do you think doctors and nurses are best qualified to formulate policy, and at the same time do you believe civil servants are the best qualified to deliver front line services in terms of the health system.


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## shnaek (19 Oct 2010)

RonanC said:


> Do you think doctors and nurses are best qualified to formulate policy, and at the same time do you believe civil servants are the best qualified to deliver front line services in terms of the health system.


What I think is that we pay a whole hell of a lot more talkers and excuse makers than we need. I'd think differently if the service was world class.


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## Slash (20 Oct 2010)

Mpsox said:


> The board is made up of senior members of the RPA, NTA, and probably the public and private transport operators that will be using the scheme.



Right. Maybe that's why they've spent so much and produced so little.


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## Chris (20 Oct 2010)

Complainer said:


> Do you think the articles on 'Govt agency does quite a nice job on something' will get through the Indo's sub-editing?
> 
> Of course, you get all the bad news in the media. That doesn't mean that the other 99% of the public sector isn't quitely keeping its head down and providing decent public services. Please let's not run the country based on the Sunday Indo's headlines.


I wouldn't expect the media to pick up on these things but I would expect the governments PR machine and spin doctors to be doing everything they can to highlight how well they are doing. Instead you have pretty much silence over things like the expense scandal of Callely; I doubt he is the only one with "inaccurate" expenses. When the expense scandal broke in the UK, Cowen was asked if there would be a similar enquiry into expenses here. His answer was a simple "No".



shnaek said:


> What I think is that we pay a whole hell of a lot more talkers and excuse makers than we need. I'd think differently if the service was world class.


Yes indeed, especially when you compare the cost of running the health service here with costs in other countries.



Slash said:


> Right. Maybe that's why they've spent so much and produced so little.


Yeah, €50m for lots of talk. Must have been nice places they were doing the talking.


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## Mpsox (20 Oct 2010)

Slash said:


> Right. Maybe that's why they've spent so much and produced so little.


 
Possibly, although the system has at last been bought, the operating contract signed and it goes live in the Spring


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