# Where to go from here



## onmywayback (10 Mar 2018)

Hi all,

I'm 31 years old and trying to decide what I should aim for financially. I have recently paid off my house and have a young and growing family. I have good qualifications and a promising career ahead of me with room for good wage growth in the coming years (hopefully over 100k in a few years). My wife and I are very frugal and save most of our money (up until now almost everything has gone into overpaying the house loan).

I'd like for my wife to give up work in a few years to stay at home full time and look after the kids.
Ideally I would like to scale back work as I get older and retire while living of investments.
*What age would retirement be feasible for me given my current financial position? Is 40 a realistic goal? What about 50?*

My current situation is

Salary: 85k
Wife Salary: 56k
Child allowance: 3.3k
Pension me: DC 14k atm
Pension Wife: not sure, public service but she has only been working in it since 2015 but I don't know the details further.


Kids: 2 ages 6 months and 2 years. (We hope to have a few more)

Assets:
House worth ~ 400k (Just paid back the last of a personal loan I took out to buy the house).
Land: 1.5 million (Only recently got this - no loans)
Other machinery + misc agri gear ~ 150k
Cash ~ 5k
Everything else about ~ 20k

Expenses:
Not sure, wife's parents look after the kids so no childcare, apart from that our main expense is commuting which costs us about ~650 per month.
Luckily when the kids go to university they will be able to live at home so that should keep costs down.

Just to add selling the land is a no go for various reasons but renting it is possible.

Thanks for taking the time to read and any advice/comments you might have,
Owen


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## Brendan Burgess (10 Mar 2018)

onmywayback said:


> House worth ~ 400k (Just paid back the last of a personal loan I took out to buy the house).
> Land: 1.5 million (Only recently got this - no loans)






onmywayback said:


> My wife and I are very frugal and save most of our money (



You are in a very good position and do not need to live frugally. Enjoy life.  Your wife can easily afford to take a few years off work if that is what she wants to do. 

When you say that selling the land is a no go, will it always be a no go?  When you are 60, will you be able to sell the land? 

What rent will you get from the land? I presume only about €20k a year. 

Brendan


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## onmywayback (10 Mar 2018)

Brendan Burgess said:


> When you say that selling the land is a no go, will it always be a no go?  When you are 60, will you be able to sell the land?
> 
> What rent will you get from the land? I presume only about €20k a year.
> 
> Brendan



Hi Brendan, thanks for the quick reply.

I can't imagine a scenario where I would sell the land in the foreseeable future. 
One option that appeals to me is winding down in work at some point and farming it myself.

I suppose part of me would just like to go and farm it in the morning and not have to go into an office ever again.
However, I have invested such a significant portion of my life and energy so far into gaining my qualifications that I would honestly feel like a fool if I quit now just as my career is properly starting.

The land would rent for about 20k per anum but I think this would be tax free which would obviously be a major benefit.

Thanks,
Owen


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## Brendan Burgess (10 Mar 2018)

onmywayback said:


> I can't imagine a scenario where I would sell the land in the foreseeable future.



But you are 31. 

Can you sell it when you are 60?  Will the reasons tying you into it be gone by then? 

Brendan


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## Sanparom (10 Mar 2018)

I agree with Brendan. You are in a very fortunate position, financially. Life is short. You should use some money to enjoy life a little bit more now. 

Also, re the college costs. Maybe you could factor in them potentially moving out of home and the costs linked to this. They might not want to do any of the courses on offer in a university near home or they may not have a choice (might not get the points etc). I'd consider this, just to be sure.


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## RedOnion (10 Mar 2018)

Is early retirement your main goal?

What kind of land have you got, and how many acres? Are there entitlements with the land?

Also, I'm assuming you've inherited the land with agricultural relief applied?


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## onmywayback (10 Mar 2018)

Brendan Burgess said:


> But you are 31.
> 
> Can you sell it when you are 60?  Will the reasons tying you into it be gone by then?
> 
> Brendan



I can sell it in a few years ( I got agriculture relief) but I wouldn't do it.

I know that the ROI on it is not great, that it's too much wealth concentrated in one asset in one area etc. The rational move might be to sell it etc but I still wouldn't do it for a host of reasons many of which are probably irrational.

Thanks,
Owen


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## onmywayback (10 Mar 2018)

Hi Sanparom,

Hopefully they will choose Dublin.
My parents bought a place in the city for me and my little sister to use as undergrads.

They are keeping that for the grandkids to use when the time comes too.


Thanks,
Owen


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## onmywayback (10 Mar 2018)

RedOnion said:


> Is early retirement your main goal?
> 
> What kind of land have you got, and how many acres? Are there entitlements with the land?
> 
> Also, I'm assuming you've inherited the land with agricultural relief applied?



Hi RedOnion,

Early retirement would be nice. I suppose I feel wealthy when I look at the figures. At the same time it doesn't make a huge change to my day to day life. Sometimes I find paid employment demotivating because a promotion from 85 k-> 100k etc will not make a huge difference to my net worth.
15k per anum extra gross, after tax until I'm 40 is not even 70k etc.

If I gave up paid employment I would hope to either farm or setup a business but don't currently have any ideas. I'd like to have enough money coming in to live comfortably with a wife and several children no matter what I did work wise.

I have 150 Acers of good reasonably dry land all in one plot around the farm. Was a dairy farm until recently but would require a new parlor.

I got the land with ag relief, I don't know if inherited is the right word.
My parents are both still alive and working  + farming another 150 acers that will possibly go to my sister once they are happy with the type of man she marries.

They wanted to give me the land now to avail of ag relief otherwise if we waited until they died their non agricultural assets (4 other houses and a mix of shares) might disqualify us + who knows what taxes will be like in the future.

Thanks for reading,
Owen


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## Brendan Burgess (11 Mar 2018)

onmywayback said:


> My parents are both still alive and working + farming another 150 acers that will possibly go to my sister once they are happy with the type of man she marries.



Tell us a bit more...  about their farm.  

Brendan


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## Brendan Burgess (11 Mar 2018)

OK, so you can't sell the farm while your parents are alive.  

And you might not want to sell it after they die. But if you ever have to, you have that valuable asset to sell. 

You also will probably have two investment properties as well as your mortgage-free home. 

Your wife does not need to be in paid employment. If she wants to stop, she can stop right now. 

You can choose what you want to do to some extent. If you don't enjoy your job, you can look for another job or another career which you enjoy more.   But if you enjoy your job most of the time, then continue at it as you are being well paid for it. 

But when it's possible to get a €1.5m gift free of all taxes, you might be discouraged from working harder to earn an extra €10k and take home only €5k of it. 

Brendan


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## RedOnion (11 Mar 2018)

There's 2 extremes to this: the romantic idea of being a farmer, and the cold hard facts of the financials. In reality you're probably going to settle somewhere in between.

I grew up on a farm, but was lucky enough not to be the oldest son, so I don't have the responsibility of being a caretaker for the 4th generation of a family farm.

My tuppence worth:
You're young. You've a good career. Even if you want to be a farmer, you don't have to do it immediately.

What you do have to do immediately is make sure you don't lose the agri relief - within the first 12 months you either need to start farming it commercially, or lease it to a qualifying farmer.

Now, if you want to farm it, have you done up a business plan on what that would look like - how much you need to invest to build up a dairy herd and replace parlour, etc? In your situation, do you want massive debts and uncertain income? 

If I was in your shoes, I'd lease the farm for 6 years, and use that time to decide what you want to do. Build your cash reserve, and let your wife take as much time as she wants off work - you can afford it.

Then, if you want to get back into farming, once your wife is at work so you've a steady income, try to do it without large borrowings. 

Too many farmers just go ahead and do things without making a proper plan, and all they're really working for is to pay bank interest on loans.

A proper business plan should have an output like the end of this article. https://www.independent.ie/business...lved-in-setting-up-a-dairy-farm-35287741.html


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## RedOnion (11 Mar 2018)

By the way, I've no idea why you think the rent on the land would be tax free?


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## onmywayback (11 Mar 2018)

Tax free:
Can't post links but google revenue leasing land tax exemption.

Thanks for the advice. I'm currently farming it for the relief. During the week I have to get up a 5 am to work on the farm then come in to get ready for a long commute. Back home at 7 then in the yard again after eating. Work on the farm at the weekends too and also sometimes problems from my job spill into the weekend too.

I suppose I'm thinking of ways out as work is only going to get more demanding if I get promoted.
Thanks for the advice/opinions,
Owen


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## RedOnion (11 Mar 2018)

Ah yes, I had missed that they had removed the age limit for the tax relief on leased land.


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## messyleo (11 Mar 2018)

onmywayback said:


> My parents are both still alive and working  + farming another 150 acers that will possibly go to my sister *once they are happy with the type of man she marries.*



Sorry this is off topic but ! Disappointing that people still think like this in 2018 - what if she doesn't get married, does she get nothing??

On topic - OP I think you should definitely consider doing what makes you happy, imagine if you got sick in a few years or had an accident. Life is very short and you are financially comfortable to do what makes you happiect to an extent. This part of your post stands out for me:
"I suppose part of me would just like to go and farm it in the morning and not have to go into an office ever again."


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## ClubMan (11 Mar 2018)

That's not the only creepily misogynistic bit in this thread...

But anyway...



> 15k per anum extra gross, after tax until I'm 40 is not even 70k etc.



Even if it's put into a pension with full relief?



> apart from that our main expense is commuting which costs us about ~650 per month.


Seems odd that you don't seem to have any idea about your monthly/yearly expenses other than commuting...

E.g. utilities, insurances, housekeeping/groceries, medical etc.
Basically the usual stuff that most households/families have to budget for.

I would imagine that you need to outline your monthly/annual income and expenditure as a first step on the way to looking at what options there are.

Hope this helps.


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## onmywayback (11 Mar 2018)

gravitygirl said:


> Sorry this is off topic but ! Disappointing that people still think like this in 2018 - what if she doesn't get married, does she get nothing??



They are worried they will give an asset worth 1.5 million to a woman in her mid twenties, then she will get married and the guy would have a claim to it if they split. They had the same concerns with me until they got to know my wife over the long term and she had several of their grandchildren.

Thanks,
Owen


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## onmywayback (11 Mar 2018)

ClubMan said:


> That's not the only creepily misogynistic bit in this thread...
> 
> But anyway...
> 
> ...



Hi Clubman

I don't understand what is "creepily misogynistic" about this thread?


Paying extra into a pension might be a possibility I should explore.

Been very frugal with everything else so far trying to pay off the house. Shop at Lidl for anything we don't grow ourselves and buy most things second hand from charity shops and the like. Commuting is the big expense as we have two cars to run. Don't have much time for entertainment outside the kids, farm, jobs, etc.

Work takes care of health, and life insurance + internet etc.

Thanks,
Owen


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## POC (12 Mar 2018)

I think you are amazing to be in such a strong financial position at such a young age. You are obviously a hard worker, which you got from your parents.
You don't need to answer these questions here, but I wonder:
What would your wife like? Some women like being at home full time, some don't.
When do you see your kids? It doesn't sound like you're there to put them to bed,or to  take them to swimming at the weekends etc.
When do you see your wife?
I hope you can find time to enjoy your family and your comfortable financial position. Otherwise, you will wake up one day and realise you are practically a stranger to your teenage kids! A stranger with a cheque book.
Being home full time with 2 small kids can be exhausting and lonely, your wife needs you to be more than a bread winner! Yesterday was Mother's Day - I hope you treated her!


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## RichInSpirit (12 Mar 2018)

gravitygirl said:


> Sorry this is off topic but ! Disappointing that people still think like this in 2018 - what if she doesn't get married, does she get nothing??



You better believe it in the country, especially when land is involved.
And it's not confined to either male or female. Both get equally hot under the collar about land.


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