# Why are NPPR penalties so high? If not paid for previous years how will LA find out?



## housebound (27 Nov 2012)

Due to an increasing family my husband and I bought a second house in Q4 2009 while trying to sell our 1st house. 

Unfortunately we never managed to sell our house so were landed with 2 mortgages. We have been busy with small kids and let things slip with the NPPR.

However I wanted to set things straight so I paid the household charge for both houses and then went on line to pay the NPPR but the charges are absolutely crazy so instead of having to pay €200 per year for 2010, 2011 & 2012 i.e. €600 we are faced with a bill of approx €1600 !!

I think this is totally crazy and cant see why the penalties are so high? Can I just pay for this year and go forward? 

I know its been said that when you go to sell your house in future that you would be caught out then but can anyone tell me how exactly you would be caught out? 

How is anyone to know i.e. if I pay for 2012 onwards and manage to sell the house in the future i.e. 10 yrs time then I will have NPPR receipts for 10 years so how is anyone gonna know that we would have had 2 houses prior to that etc

dunno what to do.

I want to pay the tax forward but don't want end up with ridiculous debts in the future because of these unfair penalties. We are above water at the moment but we really cant afford to pay the €1,600, whereas if we pay for 2012 it would be €300 which we could pay. 

I know some people will say tough luck you owe it you pay it but we are honest people who just got caught up in life and want to sort it out now, we arent big shot landlords who own lots of property, we only have the 2nd house as we cant sell it and are in negative equity, and I believe the penalties themselves are totally unfair due to the rolling basis they accumulate.


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## housebound (4 Dec 2012)

any thoughts?


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## ajapale (5 Dec 2012)

housebound said:


> any thoughts?



What is your question?


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## mandelbrot (5 Dec 2012)

ajapale said:


> What is your question?



Looks like there's at least 3



housebound said:


> I think this is totally crazy and cant see why the penalties are so high?
> 
> Can I just pay for this year and go forward?
> 
> I know its been said that when you go to sell your house in future that you would be caught out then but can anyone tell me how exactly you would be caught out?



4 if you include this one which appears to be missing a question mark:


housebound said:


> How is anyone to know i.e. if I pay for 2012 onwards and manage to sell the house in the future i.e. 10 yrs time then I will have NPPR receipts for 10 years so how is anyone gonna know that we wuld have had 2 houses prior to that etc


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## Bronte (5 Dec 2012)

deleted


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## callybags (5 Dec 2012)

Pay the two outstanding charges of €400 for 2010 and 2011.

As far as I know this will stop the penalties accumulating by €20 per month.

See if you can come to an arrangement with the council to clear the arrears over a period of time.

The penalties won't go away and will keep accumulating at €20 per month indefinitely if you just do nothing.


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## ajapale (5 Dec 2012)

mandelbrot said:


> Looks like there's at least 3.



Thanks mandelbrot, Ive updated the title with two of those questions.

Why are NPPR penalties so high? If not paid for previous years how will LA find out?


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## elcato (5 Dec 2012)

Pay the 2012 one straight away. Just don't select the previous years when you are filling in the form online. AFAIK they automatically add the fine which is why I suggest this first. Then write to the council and tell them you had a sale fall through twice on that house and that you were not living in it. Of course, one big question; Is the house let out since 2009 ? Have you completed a tax return in any of these years ?


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## delgirl (5 Dec 2012)

We still have to pay NPPR for 2013 plus Local Property Tax for half of 2013 - double tax.


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## PaddyBloggit (5 Dec 2012)

cashier said:


> .... becuase it is going to be abolished the following year.



but it's being replaced by the property tax so no major relief there.


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## shesells (9 Dec 2012)

The fines are there to encourage people to pay on time. I think it's right that they're so high and I say that as someone who accidentally missed out a year in the middle and got hit with a significant fine. I do wish the same level of "encouragement" was there for the HHC.

OP - if you don't pay what you owe, penalties will continue to accumulate and in the ever increasing likelihood that you are found out, you will just owe even more, with higher penalties. Can you afford to take that chance?


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## DonKing (28 Dec 2012)

Yes I would agree the fines for non payment of NPPR charge is on the high side and it's designed to encourage people to pay and pay on time. Anyone who has more than one property should really be on top of this. If you can't due to whatever reason then you should be enaging the services of someone who can do it for you.


I had wondered why the fines for the Household charge were so low. I suspect that the government knew that there would be widespread resistance to this household charge/tax and that it would take time to get majority/full compliance. If the late payment fees were high then there would be alot of negative publicity now and there would be calls for some sort of amnesty. Revenue now taking over collection of the new property tax is a clever move as the threat of a possible audit should focus the minds of some!


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## Lilia (17 Apr 2013)

That's easy.  They will ask for proof of where they resided, proof that there was no electricity supply to the house etc..   The NPPR plus penalites liable and unpaid since 2009 now stands at €3,160 per property in April and will rise to €3,240 in May and so on.  After July it will rise by €100 per property.  it's not worth letting it run on.  Apparantly Wexford Co. Council are now offering payment plans for those that are in arrears, they will freeze the penalties to the date that you talk to them and are apparently very willing to sort out arrears with people.  I cant understand people that let this one go.  There are two things that will happen either you die and will your property to someone or you will sell your property.  In both cases, the NPPR plus all the penalties have to be taken from the sale.  By that time it will be a fortune.  Scratches head... no brainer really.


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## sgd (8 Nov 2013)

My father died in 2007 -property crash-and left my siblings and I a dilapidated and uninhabitable house which is worth very little. It has never been rented so we've never made any income from it. It has been up for sale since 2007 and finally someone has made an offer! I've never considered it a 'second home' as I'm not a landlord and as I've said no money has ever been made from it. In fact it's cost me 3000 euros in insurance, solicitors fees,etc. Do I have to pay? Please tell me I don't


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## Joe_90 (9 Nov 2013)

There is an exemption for uninhabitable property.

[broken link removed]


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## sgd (9 Nov 2013)

Are you sure? That's great to know Joe 90. Do I get in touch with my local council on this matter or should I just let it go? The website on the NPPR isn't very clear as it seems to assume that all second home properties are habitable and rentable. Thanks for your input.


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