# Passport copy request from Employer / Nera.



## GDUFFY (2 Feb 2013)

Hi , a friend of mine and his fellow workers have been asked for a copy of their passport in a notice with their wages. The business is being inspected by NERA at present. My friend has been working at the business for over a decade and is Irish born and bred. 
He takes umbrage at this request. Having been through a Nera inspection myself and came out the other side ,a number of years ago ,I was never asked for passports for my staff , is this legal ? is Nera entitled to ask for passport copies ?  Sounds a bit "Gestapo" to me.


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## Jim2007 (2 Feb 2013)

All employers throughout the EU are required to ensure that the people working for them have the right to do so.  That means proving that you are an EU citizen, or failing that that you have the appropriate work permits.

The employer already has all your friends details so I don't what the big deal is.


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## GDUFFY (2 Feb 2013)

Yes I understand your point ,but I don't think Nera have the right to ask employees for passports, they do have the power to ask the employer to prove the employee has the right to work in this country, so the employer is trying to cover himself that he checked at the start of employment, when he probably didn't. I can understand a person being annoyed at having to prove their citizen status after working in a job 14 years .


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## Jim2007 (2 Feb 2013)

GDUFFY said:


> Yes I understand your point ,but I don't think Nera have the right to ask employees for passports, they do have the power to ask the employer to prove the employee has the right to work in this country, so the employer is trying to cover himself that he checked at the start of employment, when he probably didn't. I can understand a person being annoyed at having to prove their citizen status after working in a job 14 years .



It is not a once off exercise, people's status changes - work permits expire, people gain Irish citizenship and people loose Irish citizenship, you are expected to keep this stuff up to date!  All an expired passport shows, is that someone was a citizen, not that they still are....

For instance there is no difference between a passport of naturalised citizen and one acquired by birth, but a naturalised citizen can loose there citizenship and thus become unemployable... a copy of an old passport will not tell you this kind of thing.

Another example, would be students, most students are entitled to work about 20 hours per week while attending an Irish college, but if the drop out or complete the course they loose that right, if you are not tracking it, you will not know.

Most places I have worked over the past 5 or 6 years have regularly asked me for updates of passport etc...


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## RichInSpirit (2 Feb 2013)

Jim2007 said:


> It is not a once off exercise, people's status changes - work permits expire, people gain Irish citizenship and people loose Irish citizenship, you are expected to keep this stuff up to date!  All an expired passport shows, is that someone was a citizen, not that they still are....
> 
> For instance there is no difference between a passport of naturalised citizen and one acquired by birth, but a naturalised citizen can loose there citizenship and thus become unemployable... a copy of an old passport will not tell you this kind of thing.
> 
> ...



What if you have no passport. ? 
I don't have an up to date passport. I use my driving licence for ID. Would that satisfy Nera or an employer. ?


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## Time (2 Feb 2013)

If born in Ireland prior to 2005 a birth cert proves citizenship, as would a driving licence of a person born in Ireland.

I have only ever shown a birth cert as proof of citizenship for Irish employers.


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## Jim2007 (2 Feb 2013)

RichInSpirit said:


> What if you have no passport. ?
> I don't have an up to date passport. I use my driving licence for ID. Would that satisfy Nera or an employer. ?



A birth certificate will work for a person born in Ireland, but may not suffice for other EU citizens as it may be possible that they can loose their citizenship - Germany and Italy come to mind.

However, the employer would need to satisfy himself that the birth cert being presented was that of the employee, so combining it with the driving license might be the way to go.


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## Time (2 Feb 2013)

Irish born citizens can give up their citizenship if they wish by completing some forms and sending them to the government.


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## Jim2007 (3 Feb 2013)

Time said:


> Irish born citizens can give up their citizenship if they wish by completing some forms and sending them to the government.



Not really, if you acquired Irish citizenship by birth you can always re activate it again when ever it suits you.  This was done to allow Irish citizens acquire citizenship of countries that do not allow for dual citizenship.


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## oldnick (3 Feb 2013)

What a crazy thread. 
The employer can get into big trouble if he has illegally (albeit unwittingly)employed a person and so he asks for proof of identity/nationality.
The fact he hasn't done it earlier does not invalidate his request now.

As there's an inspection due  what on earth is the problem with Duffy's friend showing that proof as long as other employees are also asked ?  

"Gestapo" tactics, Duffy ? Really?


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## RichInSpirit (3 Feb 2013)

*Request for proof of identity*

These request's for proof of identity can get quite silly though.

My credit union sent a lot of people letters last year looking for further ID. Even though they've been members for years.
I haven't provided the further ID yet and I haven't heard anything about it since.
If they decide that I can no longer be a member that's fine with me. That means I don't have to pay back my rather large loan to them.

All these rules and regulations coming down from on high are most troubling.


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## oldnick (3 Feb 2013)

This seems to be an irish and British thing -an antipathy to providing ID.

Anyone with long experience living abroad know that in most countries it's quite normal to be frequently asked for photo ID and in many states ,even in Europe, one is supposed to carry photo ID.

Due to the number of people - Irish and foreign - who abuse the system ,whether it's social welfare fraud, money laundering, tax evasion, illegal immigration etc etc  , we should welcome stricter checks if they manage to reduce such abuses.

Could someone please explain to me why they refuse to provide proof of identity when requested ?


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## GDUFFY (3 Feb 2013)

I think that a lot of people are sick of these quangos , I agree with your points about a proper Id system to stem welfare fraud etc. but do it properly , have one number per person , revenue,welfare,immigration,gardai etc etc should all have full info on the person attached to that number ,photo etc what property they own,what welfare benefits they claim, and then if a person applies for a job with their number and is not permitted to work the revenue inform the employer that this person has no clearance to work , easy, instead of this fragmented crap system we have at present. I Have dealt with Nera and they are jumped up little ......'s who think employers are evil , I told them so ,gave them what they wanted ,and sent them on their merry way !


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## oldnick (3 Feb 2013)

Yeah,fair comment.  
Looking back on my own comments I came across like one of those petty officials. Sorry.


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