# Asking tenants to leave as I wish to move back in!



## lenny_h (21 Jul 2009)

I rented out my place to a couple and their child in March based on a 1 yr lease, but also stated in the lease it was on a 'month by month'.

I now need to move back into it permanently, how do I go about asking the tenants to leave, im new to this - I feel bad as they have made it their home and have a young child.

I think they will be able to rent a similar if not bigger apartment in that block for probably 50/100eur more pm.

Do i write to them formally advising they have 30 days notice or can they bring their case to the PRTB? (I am not regd )


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## Guest116 (21 Jul 2009)

Just ask them, maybe give them a month free rent as well.


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## lenny_h (21 Jul 2009)

Its not feasible to give them a free month, I just dont have it unfortunately!


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## Guest116 (21 Jul 2009)

I suppose just explain you need to move back in for whatever reason (make one up if you have to) and give them notice.

There is no shortage of other places to rent.


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## lenny_h (21 Jul 2009)

I could say I need to sell it due to unforseen circumstances. They cant argue if I need to sell it!!


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## Guest116 (21 Jul 2009)

Yeah that would work. You sound fairly reasonable so as long as you don't go in hardnosed about it I'd say you wont have any issues.


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## Padraigb (21 Jul 2009)

lenny_h said:


> I could say I need to sell it due to unforseen circumstances. They cant argue if I need to sell it!!



Then you move back in, they get another apartment in the block, and see that you lied to them.

How about being straight with them? If need be, give them the extra little bit per month that would enable them to get another apartment for the remainder of the period of the lease.


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## Berni (21 Jul 2009)

lenny_h said:


> They cant argue if I need to sell it!!


 
They can actually, if you then don't sell it.  
Under the PRTB rules, notice may be given if the landlord intends to sell in the next 3 months. However, the tenant must be given first refusal to resume their tenancy if the sale doesn't go through.

If your lease has a valid break clause, use it. 
Otherwise be honest and try to negotiate a mutually acceptable agreement.  Just because you haven't registered the tenancy, doesn't mean your tenants can't go to the PRTB with a dispute.


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## Guest116 (21 Jul 2009)

Pay a portion of their rent after they move out? Messy.

The OP can just change his mind about selling, so what. I doubt anyone would be too bothered.


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## jhegarty (21 Jul 2009)

How can a lease be month to month and 1 year ?

What does the actual paper they signed say ?


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## Howitzer (21 Jul 2009)

Given that you haven't registered with the PRTB you'd not really in a good position. Unless the tenants leave on good terms you're going to find yourself in the sh**ter. I would imagine you're going to have to give them an incentive to break the lease.


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## humpty (21 Jul 2009)

lenny h

If you need to move back into your property then all leases are null & void if you look up the prtb web site it clearly states this if you or any member of your family need to move in then it is perfectly legal. Just tell them the truth.


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## lenny_h (21 Jul 2009)

jhegarty said:


> How can a lease be month to month and 1 year ?
> 
> What does the actual paper they signed say ?



Its a messy one- I advertised on daft as a 6 month lease, A friend who showed them around ( I was away) verbally agreed a year with them. The lease they signed is a 'Part 4' lease agreement which stipulates that up to 6 months I can ask them to leave at any time [broken link removed] . Problem is I cant find the signed lease.

They are pretty decent tenants and I cant see them arguing, I just know from renting myself if a landlord asked me to leave after 5/6 months i would be pretty peed off.

Ive decided I am just going to tell the truth and tell them I need to move back in myself, I can give them a week free max- thats about it for the trouble it may cause them.

Wish me luck!


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## jhegarty (21 Jul 2009)

Why don't you rent somewhere else with lower rent on a month to month lease ?


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## round1 (21 Jul 2009)

As a landlord, you can only legally break a fixed term lease if the tenants have not fulfilled their obligations as tenants eg non payment of rent or anti-social behaviour. Your tenants can bring a complaint to the PRTB even if you are not registered.


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## pebbledash (21 Jul 2009)

Tell them the truth, why would you lie? It's a renters market at the moment so they shouldn't have trouble finding somewhere else. If needs be give them an extra week or two to move, I can't see them needing it though, most places on daft are available immediately.

Were you banking on them not claiming rent relief? Even if you give them an incentive to leave they might still report you to the prtb and claim rent relief. Moral of the story - do things above board and pay your taxes.


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## Guest116 (21 Jul 2009)

You are all thinking worst case scenarios here, more than likely there won't be any hassle.


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## NovaFlare77 (21 Jul 2009)

jaybird said:


> You have no copy of the lease. You are not registered. You are thinking of lying to them You are in a world of trouble if you aren't careful. If I had moved into a place in March with a child and the landlord came in July and said he wanted us to move out for his own purposes, I would laugh at him and then close the door.
> You haven't a leg to stand on here.
> It costs money to move. Why should they be out of pocket because you are an amateur landlord? Either do it properly, tell them the truth, pay their expenses and help them, or expect them to refuse and possibly report you to all relevant agencies.


 
The OP has already stated she is telling them the truth:



lenny_h said:


> Ive decided I am just going to tell the truth and tell them I need to move back in myself


 
Lenny_h, see exactly what the lease says about notice periods, etc, once you find it. Without a copy of the lease it will be that much harder for you to act proplerly. And not to get holier-than-thou, not registering with the PRTB was a mistake, so don't do anything to exacerbate the situation. Presumably they are entitled to a month's notice, so if they ask for a week's extension or such, I'd be inclined to give them that.


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## lenny_h (21 Jul 2009)

jaybird said:


> You have no copy of the lease. You are not registered. You are thinking of lying to them You are in a world of trouble if you aren't careful. If I had moved into a place in March with a child and the landlord came in July and said he wanted us to move out for his own purposes, I would laugh at him and then close the door.
> You haven't a leg to stand on here.
> It costs money to move. Why should they be out of pocket because you are an amateur landlord? Either do it properly, tell them the truth, pay their expenses and help them, or expect them to refuse and possibly report you to all relevant agencies.



Why would they be out of pocket?! They are getting their deposit back the week they leave. Its a renters market out there, just looking on daft.ie there is 4 two beds in my block that they could rent. Plus I would be giving them 37 days notice - with one free week as stated in my earlier post. I do not see why I should 'help' anybody any further. I did state i felt bad, but its my home and I need to move back in - simple as. 

Also I stated I wouldnt be lying, I would be telling the truth.

As for being an 'amateur' landlord, well we all have to start somewhere eh.


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## lenny_h (21 Jul 2009)

round1 said:


> As a landlord, you can only legally break a fixed term lease if the tenants have not fulfilled their obligations as tenants eg non payment of rent or anti-social behaviour. Your tenants can bring a complaint to the PRTB even if you are not registered.



Its not a fixed term lease, its month by month and it stipulates in teh lease that I can ask them to leave for numerous reasons i.e. If I or a family member needs to move back in.

Thanks everyone for your replies, Im gonna draft a letter advising them I need to move back in and they need to leave 1st wk in september. I will also point them in the direction of daft for the other 2 beds in my block and im sure they could negotiate a rent similiar to what I was giving them.


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## jhegarty (21 Jul 2009)

lenny_h said:


> I do not see why I should 'help' anybody any further.




Because you signed a contract with them , you plan to break it , and they know they get you in heaps of trouble with one phone call.


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## lenny_h (21 Jul 2009)

jhegarty said:


> Because you signed a contract with them , you plan to break it , and they know they get you in heaps of trouble with one phone call.



[broken link removed]

Read part 4

Depends what type of people they are if they wish to get me in *heaps *of trouble and frankly I dont think they would.


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## canicemcavoy (21 Jul 2009)

I suppose you have to look at the worst case scenario. I'm not familar with the workings of the PRTB, but if:

* you are unregistered
* the lease was agreed for 12 months
* you cannot find where it was agreed that it was a month-by-month lease
* your tenants bring a case against you

.... what is the worst that can happen, does anyone know?

"Why would they be out of pocket?!"

Well, removal fees for one thing. The hassle of changing address for bills, accounts, pensions and investments would certain mean that, if I had to do it once, and was told I had to do it again within 4 months, I'd be in a pretty bad mood.


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## round1 (21 Jul 2009)

I suggest you look up some of the tenant versus landlord cases documented on the PRTB website to see the very large sums of money landlords have been obliged to pay tenants in compensation for illegal termination of leases.


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## Guest116 (21 Jul 2009)

Jeeze just go and ask the tenants about them moving out. All this negativity!


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## lenny_h (21 Jul 2009)

aristotle25 said:


> All this negativity!



Exactly!

Dont think anyone is reading my posts either. They signed a month-by-month lease which stipulates I can ask them to leave before the 6 months are up without any questions asked. After 6 months If I wish to move in - that is a valid reason. 

Thanks for everyones replies, im gonna keep positive about it anyway!


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## jhegarty (21 Jul 2009)

lenny_h said:


> Exactly!
> 
> Dont think anyone is reading my posts either. They signed a month-by-month lease which stipulates I can ask them to leave before the 6 months are up without any questions asked. After 6 months If I wish to move in - that is a valid reason.
> 
> Thanks for everyones replies, im gonna keep positive about it anyway!




No , we read the post where you said you lost the lease. A lease you don't have may as well not have been signed.


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## Ann1 (21 Jul 2009)

lenny h Yes I think you need to discuss the move with your tenants first. You will probably come to an agreement that suits both of you. However I think its not just a matter of what you are and are not allowed to do as per the lease. Sometimes people say _ 'oh! its all right mate no problem sure its no bother at all'_ but they are really seething with anger. The other posters are laying out all the scenarios that may happen as a result. If I were you I would pay whatever tax is owing on the rental for the few months. Better get in first otherwise you may find yourself having to prove to revenue that the house has not always been a rental.


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## jhegarty (21 Jul 2009)

jaybird said:


> I'd be willing to bet you have not declared your rental income to the revenue or had the TRS removed from your mortgage.




+ stamp duty


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## cleverclogs7 (21 Jul 2009)

Just be honest with them.The contract says month by month on a 1 yrs lease.Write them a notice giving 28 days notice  or more.In the mean time check around the area for a place for them with the same rent or cheaper.At least you will be helping them out that way.Dont lie about it.


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## Afuera (22 Jul 2009)

lenny_h, you don't really have a leg to stand on. Your agent (i.e. the friend that showed the tenants the property) made a verbal agreement with them for a year. A lease that suggests otherwise would most likely be determined to be misleading in court, and seems to be moot anyway since you can't even find a copy of it.

The fair thing to do here would be for you to find temporary accomodation for  the next 6 months and let the tenants reach the end of their lease. Your behaviour up to this point has thrown into question your moral scrupples so I imagine you will not follow this course of action .

Illegal evictions can result in awards of anything up to EUR 10,000 against the landlord, so just be aware of the risk you are taking should you decide to try and kick them out of their home.


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