# Lots of Money coming in - Lots going Out - Getting Nowhere - Need advice



## Rockyroad18 (10 Feb 2017)

Age: 45
Spouse’s/Partner's age: 46

Annual gross income from employment or profession: 82,000 + €5k bonus
Annual gross income of spouse:€42,500 + €10-15k overtime

Monthly take-home pay €3927 after pension payment & bus ticket/ Spouse €590 per week (after pension) €560 child benefit

Type of employment: e.g. Civil Servant, self-employed Private Sector and Civil Service

In general are you:
(a) spending more than you earn, or
(b) saving? depends on the month but just about keeping up.

Rough estimate of value of home €450,000
Amount outstanding on your mortgage: €130,000 - 14 years left
*What interest rate are you paying? 4.5% with ESB*

Other borrowings – car loans/personal loans etc €12k loan w Credit Union - payment 300 per month - 4 years left to pay, spouse not sure of loan but €200 a month repayment and 3 year left to pay

Do you pay off your full credit card balance each month? almost - can't seem to clear it though
If not, what is the balance on your credit card? €500

Savings and investments: About 12K saved between us!

Do you have a pension scheme? 3 pensions - one with €11K, one with €50k, current one €9K/ Spouse no idea how much in it but DB and he can draw it down when he is 50.

Do you own any investment or other property? No

Ages of children: 12/9/6/4

Life insurance: Both have cover with work.  Nothing outside that.


*What specific question do you have or what issues are of concern to you?*
*For the first time since we met myself and husband have agreed to have a joint account and have one place where all expenses come from.  To date we have had separate accounts and he has paid mortgage, esb, and a couple of other bills - I paid for food, childcare, everything with the kids, some other bills - in short there is continuous bad feelings about who is paying what and we hope that this will sort that out.  So I sat down and put everything (I think) down in a spreadsheet that would need to go out of the account and what we would put into the account - when you write it down its quite shocking to see how much you spend!  With the majority of our wages going into this joint account we still are not meeting our outgoings and probably explains why we are struggling.  We live in the country and need 2 cars and with 4 kids one has to be a 7 seater.  
High level of expenses PER MONTH looks like this - 
€1519 (Mortgage/Electricity/Oil/Sky/Internet/Alarm/Bins/TV Licence/Prop Tax)
€995 ( 2 car loans, car tax, insurance, Diesel)
€1400 (Kids - child minder, kids classes like piano/drama/rugby/3 days out a         month/birthdays/clothes/shoes/school books/uniform/fees)
€402 (Medicine €140/ VHI €135/ spouse medical aid €127 (currently kids not covered)
€57 (mobile phones)
€600 (events - Communions/Confirmation/ friends birthday/christmas/holidays)
€800 Food (mostly Lidl but sometimes supervalu)

that comes to €5700 per month but our plan was to put in €5290 per month (2950 from me and €2340 per month). So obviously I will need to put in more to meet this amount.   We hoped to put some extra of the mortgage and start some savings.  but I don't see it happening - I haven't included anything going wrong with the house/ doctor appointments or car problems.  
I work full time and the time and my husband works shift so we only have 2-3 days a month together and we usually like to go out for the day which with 6 people rarely costs less than €100.  From looking at this website I can see we are paying too much for our mortgage repayments so that is something I will look at changing asap.  Other than that is there anything else that is glaringly obvious?
thanks for taking the time to read - please be gentle with me *


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## gnf_ireland (10 Feb 2017)

First thing you need to do is to understand where all of the money is going and determine if it is the best value for money you can get. I would also remove annual spends from the numbers, as they only tend to blur the monthly figures.



Rockyroad18 said:


> €1519 (Mortgage/Electricity/Oil/Sky/Internet/Alarm/Bins/TV Licence/Prop Tax)
> €995 ( 2 car loans, car tax, insurance, Diesel)
> €1400 (Kids - child minder, kids classes like piano/drama/rugby/3 days out a month/birthdays/clothes/shoes/school books/uniform/fees)
> €402 (Medicine €140/ VHI €135/ spouse medical aid €127 (currently kids not covered)
> ...



1519 on Mortgage & utilities. Its about right if maybe a fraction high. Need to look at mortgage when you get in a position to do so. Also when is the last time you switched other utilities such as electricity etc

995 on car is high, but could be down to car loans. This is 12k a year alone of your net income or close to 20% !

1400 - hard to call on without knowing the split out for childminder versus other. Probably ok in general

140 a month on medicine seems high unless underlying medical condition which you have not mentioned. I assume the youngest has the U6 GP card etc? I would wonder if it makes sense to drop the health insurance plans you are on, as they are relatively high ones and you you still be in prime of your health ! Worth considering? When is the last time you reviewed the plan versus others available

600 a month (7200 a year) seems high for events. I understand what you say about doing things as a family, but it is still a major expense and probably one of the areas of pure discretionary expenditure you have to make 'quick' savings in. I think you should try cut this by 200 euro a month for a few months, clear the credit card and try pay down some of the more expensive car loans early.

800 is reasonable for food for a family of 6

A few other points:
1. don't try and pay down the mortgage early until you have cleared the more expensive debt down first (credit card, car loans etc)
2. try get a cheaper rate on the mortgage - if you cannot switch now, fix for a year on a lower rate and be ready to switch next year when that expires
3. A family of 6 is expensive ! 
4. Try put a budget in place and manage against it. Take out the annuals from it and manage them separately. Try shave a small bit off the budget but be realistic. You are not going to cut any budget in half straight away.
5. For the annuals, put some money in the credit union each month to cover them. You do not want large bills to be a shock when they come in the door.
6. Finally on the joint account - try pay everything with DD that you can, so its easily traced for reconciliation. Avoid using cash from it and use card for payments etc. Keep in mine if one party feels the other has absolute control on the purse strings, it will cause a different form of friction ! Jointly managing money is not easy and does require a level of trust

I was surprised how few of my friends had joint accounts. We set one up when we moved in together and has seemed to work ok over the years. Finances are now more tightly coupled than ever, but that is by choice.


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## huskerdu (10 Feb 2017)

All good advice above.

According to the top of your post, your total monthly take home between the two of you is (3927 + (590*4.3)+560) = 7024. 
If you spending 5700 a month, where does the other 1300 go ?


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## Rockyroad18 (11 Feb 2017)

Thank you both your replies. To answer some questions. Switched electricity supplier couple of months ago. Can't really switch anything else (no other internet in area.
20% of net income on cars is massive!!  I have been at hubby to downgrade his car and use the 7 seater which sits outside the door as I get bus during the week but he doesn't seem to want to let go. I will work on that further 
He spends €50 per week driving to work alone. I have opp to open credit union Ac with his work which would give me a much better rate but it's v difficult to get to and it just hasn't happened yet (will try to make s priority).
Child care is about €600 a month (hubby can be around a lot during week sometimes due to shift).  Classes got a lot!
My son has had a lot of health problems over the last few years and his medicine is expensive. My husband has s medical condition also so that brings medical to full limit a month. I have just been to doc (first time in 3 years!) and I will have to have some procedures so don't want to reduce medical cover to be honest. I do think though we could get a better deal if we were in the same one.  Will look at this. Also paranoid about kids not being covered.
Yes all the events seems a lot and maybe able to reduce slightly but it will be hard (confirmation in a few weeks).

Where does the rest of the money go? Booze and fags!!! 
I wish!  So I did a spending diary a couple of months ago ...
I lead a big team and it's also important to keep up my network so I spend about €170 a month on coffees, the odd lunch out and sometimes contributions to leaving presents or birthday (minimal). (Work is my social life) rarely drink.
Have to look half decent so about €40 a month on hair (this is cheap - get it done at home). The odd piece of clothing but nothing major - maybe €60 a month.
When I get paid I immediately put €1000 into a savings account but most of it gets moved back to current ac by month end. There is always something - e.g. Son needed some professional help so that cost €50 a week for past 12 weeks, sitting room had to (yes it was in a state!) be done up before Xmas. Cost me €1500 - apart from new floor everything else was got on done deal ( couch €200).
I have a cleaner that comes in twice a month €60. I'm not getting rid of her/ she keeps me sane. If I could afford it I'd get her weekly!
The kids cost a lot - €5 here €2 there on a regular basis adds up - football boots, drama tee- shirts, piano exams, DVD and pizza treats. Couple of weeks ago new payment for secondary school. Have to factor in new uniform and books now this summer also. 
We hardly ever go out as a couple so can't factor that in.
I put petrol in a diesel car few weeks ago so that was another €80 to fix my slight error. 
Until this week I don't really know what hubby does with extra money apart from the odd flitter in Lidl. Couple of pints once a week if he is off. And he has a big if an addiction to shoes but nothing to worry about! He does put some money away for unexpected but I don't know how much. 
With this new plan I hope to be much more organised. We will have a card each and consult over anything over €300. Otherwise no questions. I want to be able to save children's allowance for college.


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## ixus (11 Feb 2017)

Switch your mortgage. You could get down to 3.1% with BOI plus get 2% (2.6k) cash back to knock off credit card.

You could also look at extending mortgage to 20yrs. Would bring mortgage down to 730pm @ 3.1% with cash back. Gives you breathing room with 4 young kids.


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## Rockyroad18 (11 Feb 2017)

Thanks for your comment. Yes going to look at changing mortgage. But not extending it - want to get rid asap. Don't want it around when kids in college if they choose that path


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## Doorpep (11 Feb 2017)

- Switch mortgage would be the first obvious one AIB, 2K cash back and 3.1% for <50% LTV
 - Are you on a good mobile phone plan? T*sco mobile SIM only - great unlimited deal for €25 per month
 - Stick to Lidl or Aldi only for a month and see if you notice the difference in spends. Don't do the top up shops..Bulk cook a few meals to freeze at weekends so that the need for top up shops lessens as it comes to Thus/Fri
 - Take receipts for ALL spends so that you really do notice what your 'frivolous' spends are
 - Four kids don't come cheap and you're probably at the your most expensive stage with the regarding childcare. Can you limit their activities to one each a week with playdates/library/park trips as a replacement for the others (not sure of their ages)
 - The amount being spent on car loans does seem excessively high..
 - Bring lunch to work..again, even if only for a month or so to see what you notice regarding the savings made - might encourage you to do so even three days a week post this period
 - The discretionary expenditure for events does seem high also. Again, keep an eye for bargains and stock up on presents when on special offer so you're not under pressure to get something expensive when these events crop up. Great FB group is 'Beady Eye Bargains and Special Offers' - You may end up spending more due to all of the bargains found by using it though!! ;o)


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## Rockyroad18 (12 Feb 2017)

Thanks for the reply Doorpep.
Definitely going to look at mortgage.
Mobile is €27 a month so I'm happy with that. 
I did a good shop on Saturday €166. But I know already I'll be back in there prob by Tuesday / seriously the amount of food kids put away. I tried for a while to hide some and that worked well but they older and smarter now I could have bought more bread for freezer though. 
Very difficult to drop classes. Oldest (12) is doing drama for 4 years now and LOVES it and is at grade 5 with piano so don't want to stop. My 9 year old loves sport and I find it hard to say no when he shows that interest. It's good for him mentally too as he is NOT a good looser so it's a good taste of reality. Those were all grand until the 2 little Ines got bigger and wants to do their own classes!!  My littl fella isn't doing anything yet but my 6 yr old is about to start piano and also loves the drama. Very hard to say no when other league do it and also not fair in them.  We do library and lots of walks at weekend. 
Spoke to hubby about car loan and he says his car is more economical to run than mine so won't budge for the moment. 
I do bring lunch in a lot - I go through phases. Just spent the morn preparing some for the week. I can't do that every week though cause we need family time. I'll have a look at those sites thanks a mill. My trouble is usually time.


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## PGF2016 (13 Feb 2017)

The previous comments about switching your mortgage are very valid and should be the highest priority. 



Rockyroad18 said:


> And he has a big if an addiction to shoes but nothing to worry about! He does put some money away for unexpected but I don't know how much.


Sounds crazy that you don't know how much your partner is putting away when you're paying interest on credit cards at the same time. At the very least his addiction to shoes should be curtailed until such time as you have your finances under control. 



Rockyroad18 said:


> 20% of net income on cars is massive!!  I have been at hubby to downgrade his car and use the 7 seater which sits outside the door as I get bus during the week but he doesn't seem to want to let go.


How often do you need the full 7 seats? If it's sitting idle 99% of the time and then you only use the full 7 seats infrequently maybe you could downsize to two smaller cars and take the hit by using 2 cars when you need the full 7 seats.


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## tallpaul (13 Feb 2017)

Rockyroad18 said:


> I lead a big team and it's also important to keep up my network so I spend about €170 a month on coffees, the odd lunch out and sometimes contributions to leaving presents or birthday (minimal). (Work is my social life) rarely drink.



This jumps out at me like a beacon. You are spending over €2000 a year of your net income on motivational coffee for your staff!! This is madness!! Buy a kettle and a jar of coffee and make it for them if you want to make your staff feel loved!!

I would strongly suggest that you just stop spending frivolously for a month. No coffees, no day's out, no stupid spending. For one month. Then see how much extra money you have at the end of it. The next month start to reintroduce some treats but not all of them. It seems to be that hubby and kiddies need a reality check on simple economics. You have all this money washing around and that is a problem as I suspect you both don't know how to manage it. Your goal should be to cut down on spending and build your savings pot. You only have €12K and at your current rate of expenditure, would barely last you two months...


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## aristotle (13 Feb 2017)

You should be expensing those coffee bills to your employer. If they wont pay for it you shouldn't be doing it.
That's a crazy waste of your salary - nearly €4,000 of your gross.


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## thedaddyman (13 Feb 2017)

are you claiming all the tax relief you can for your medical expenses. Remember you can claim retrospectively
I don't see any mention of the childrens allowance here so there is another gap there to consider
600 a month for events is ridiculous, even with 4 kids and 1 day out a month. I've only 2 and a Sunday afternoon at the pictures would set us back less then €30. I do get where you are coming from regarding the classes though, but you should also be asking are your kids doing too much? They don't need to go to every birthday party from someone in their class
is remortgaging an option at a lower rate but also given the property equity you have, to pay off the car loans? Secondly, if your husband works shifts and only needs the car for commuting, he only needs a small car or he should be left pay it himself if he want's a bigger one


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## Cervelo (13 Feb 2017)

I dont think they are spending €170 on coffee for their workmates but rather going out for coffee and lunch's etc, etc, with their workmates costs €170.
Could be wrong but thats how I read it


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## elcato (13 Feb 2017)

Cervelo said:


> I dont think they are spending €170 on coffee for their workmates but rather going out for coffee and lunch's etc, etc, with their workmates costs €170.


The OP says she doesn't drink also so this makes this figure quite normal in the social scene statistics.


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## Rockyroad18 (13 Feb 2017)

Thanks all for your replies. You are correct Cervelo I am not spending €170 on my team! I'm not that nice!  I'd spend about 20/€30 on them. The rest is my own. I didn't have any coffee today and brought in my lunch and snacks. Have tomorrow's ready to go. 
PGF2016 yes it's crazy that I don't know what hubby saves (I know it's not much). He pays his credit card every month. The other one is mine. Not a chance he would pay it off before and I wouldn't expect him to. I plan to have that cleared by April. Also will have better view of husbands finances with the new shared account. Just waiting for debit cards from KBC now. Will set up all DD's by end of week. He buys about 4 pairs of shoes a year (runners or clarkes). I have asked him not to buy any more for a while.
Hubby uses my car when off during week to taxi kids around and I use it all weekend so we do use it all the time.
Tallpail while you are wrong that I spend €4000 a year on my team you are totally right that we don't know what we are doing with our money. We used to be fairly good and have put a lot of lump sums of the mortgage.  I never had a car loan in my life until my last car got written off and I decided to move up to 2011 to reduce the tax. I do regret this but will focus on reducing the loan now instead of changing it again. I think paying off debt should take priority over building up savings yes??
Thedaddyman Yes have claimed all medical expenses. Will be due to claim last years now. I have mentioned the children's allowance in original post.
€600 for events is how much We need to save to cover all events for the year including holidays and Christmas and religious events. Older kids don't go to as many parties now but youngest has had a lot this year for her first year (most parents seem to do this then it pitters off to just close friends). We have one / two days out a month where we would go off for the day. Then a couple of other treats like hot choc after a walk or maybe s pizza and DVD night which I included as another day in original post. The last time I went to cinema it was over €50 so that happens very rarely.  Agree with you on the car. Talks continue. Thanks everyone. 
I spent €10 today on valentines card and things for the kids in the €2 shop. Could I have not spent that? Absolutely but I chose to and was very conscious of what was spending. Last year I spent €40 in M&S without a second thought. I'm feeling very determined.


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## PaddyBloggit (13 Feb 2017)

Rockyroad18 said:


> I think paying off debt should take priority over building up savings yes??



Yes ... that's the way I'd go.


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## xoxoxo (13 Feb 2017)

I think you are doing great Rockyroad. To have 4 kids and work full time outside the home is hard going. I have 3 and work part time and find it v. Difficult. Fair play to you.


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## Rockyroad18 (14 Feb 2017)

Thank you xoxoxo it is tough going at times but I'm lucky in my job that I have some flexibility so can go in early and come home early to miss traffic. Also work a day from home so all that makes the juggle easier. I love my job so really lucky in that sense too. If I didnt life would be much harder.


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## cremeegg (14 Feb 2017)

Can I offer a perspective on your lifestyle rather than a strict financial view. Our family structure is almost exactly the same as yours, except we are about 7 years older. The point I want to make is that this is your life and this is how its going to be for another decade. The financial side on a day to day basis doesn't matter. If you had €10k extra income or €10k less income nothing would change, sure a few more or less holidays, days out etc, a bit more or less stress but nothing beyond the ups and downs in stress levels that will occur anyway.

The financial side on a longer term basis does matter. 

You have 14 years left on the mortgage, if you want to finance your kids college that is an issue. As has been said you can remortgage at a lower rate. I suggest that you should try to keep up or even increase the repayment to bring down the term. I can see you having a pinch point in 5 years or so 18 year olds are much more expensive than 12 year olds.

The other issue is the pension, you have €70k which is nice but not huge, your spouse has a DB scheme with the public service. You need to know what that is worth.

In 15 years time your kids will be reared, your mortgage will be paid, wether you spend €600 or €60 on days out is minor.


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## Rockyroad18 (14 Feb 2017)

Hi Creamegg!
How to confuse a girl. I'm not sure what exactly you are advising. I think what you are saying is get the mortgage down so that we have more disposable income when eldest goes to college. 
My husband pension - I will confirm details later by fairly sure will get down payment off approx €90k and then weekly of half current weekly payment. Will confirm though. He can retire in 7 years but he won't be able to unless he has another job as we will need the income. I had a couple of years out of work or on minimum wage during the recession so my pension is not where I would like it to be but it's not too priority.
And then I think you are saying no matter what happens will have no mortgage in 15 years so don't stress???


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## Rockyroad18 (14 Feb 2017)

Confirmed hubbys pension - €90k approx  (it depends on his hours worked in specific years but very close to this). Then he will get approx €500 each week before tax but will be on lower rate then I believe.


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## cremeegg (15 Feb 2017)

Sorry for the confusing post. I suppose I was trying to say, concentrate on the mortgage, then the pension, then college fees, after that don't stress. If you can clear the mortgage in time that will sort the college fees. The pension seems in a good place. Tell hubby he cannot retire until 60, let him stress about that.


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## Rockyroad18 (15 Feb 2017)

Ah thanks for that Creamegg. I might try to get rid of car loan first though. However if I can get mortgage rate down we will continue to pay same amount we currently pay. Then pay more when loans paid off.


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