# Foundation Question



## Midgirl (17 May 2011)

HI,

We are just starting a self build, and are at the foundation stage. The following will be the foundation makeup, 150mm hardcore, 150mm concrete, 175mm insulation, 50-75mm screed with ufh pipes. (50mm if easy screed, 75mm if sand and cement).

I was wondering where the waste water pipes should go in the foundation, our builder was talking about putting them in with the insulation, but I thought that would slightly defeat the purpose of the insulation as the part of the floor with the pipe will have about 100mm less of insulation. Basically am just looking for advice on whether the sewer pipes should be in the subfloor or is it ok to put in with the insulation. They are working on the footings at the moment so need to resolve this asap. 

Thanks for any advice


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## Patrick2008 (17 May 2011)

Maybe ask your Engineer or Architect. They should be able to advice you accordingly. Sewer pipes are typically run under the subfloor. I presume you are using the correct type Radon barrier (if any).


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## Patrick2008 (17 May 2011)

Sorry Midgirl, I forgot to answer your question. Sewer pipes usually go in after the Hardcore is laid. I dont know where your house is located but make sure and use Annex E fine and rough stone to minimise the risk of pyrite. 

Also, if your boiler is located outside the house make sure you have allowed for a duct and have a special insulated pipe where it penetrates through the foundation etc. Also make sure you have allowed for all pipes which need to go into the subfloor at this stage as you dont want to be digging up later. Dont leave it to your builder. 

Again, your Architect or Engineer should give you guidance on this and all other matters.


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## onq (17 May 2011)

*Your floor specification appears to omit the Radon Gas Barrier, Radon Gas Collector Box and Evacuation Pipework.

These are still requried by law so far as I know - have you an architect appointed?* *

In fact your floor build up shows no DPM at all - stop the work!* 


ONQ.

     [broken link removed]

     All advice on AAM is remote from the situation and cannot be relied                   upon                                                                                                 as  a          defence     or                support   -         in          and     of                  itself    -                        should                       legal                        action              be                        taken.
     Competent legal and building professionals should be asked to       advise        in                                                                                                       Real      Life      with              rights      to                inspect         and                issue                       reports           on            the                                    matters         at                       hand.


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## Midgirl (17 May 2011)

Thanks for the replies.

I have been just down on site. I did not include the radon barrier or the dpm in the foundation detail, because I forgot to (sorry, am new to this), but they are both absolutely definetely going in.

We have cleared everything up with the builder, sometimes it may be a breakdown in communication, as all the pipework and ducting is now confirmed and shall be going in below the subfloor.

Thanks again. and panic over (for now).


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## Patrick2008 (17 May 2011)

Midgirl. Was the site tested for Radon? What type of radon barrier was specified? Have you specified for a Annex E stone, whichis certified as not having pyrite. This is a big problem especially in Leinster at the moment.

Can you confirm if you have a competent Architect or Engineer appointed? If not, you should appoint one ASAP.


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## Midgirl (17 May 2011)

The site was not tested for radon, I didnt know it had to be, only that the radon barrier would be put in place, with the pipe to extract the radon. We are in longford, close to the town so from the Radon map of ireland we would be in the low area of radon.

We do have an architect in place, who had specified the radon barrier etc.. but nobody has mentioned stone that would need to be certified to be free of pyrite, which I am now worried about as I have now read up on the problems with pyrite. The stone is in place now, and probably been compacted as I type.


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## Patrick2008 (17 May 2011)

Midgirl. I didnt mean to worry you. It may not be an issue. At least you have a Architect on board so I am sure he is looking at all the issues. Best of luck with your build.


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## onq (20 May 2011)

Raise the question NOW then, before you pour your slab or concrete , covering the stone.

Inform the Architect and the Contractor that you will hold them both responsible for any problems arising from that source.

ONQ.

     [broken link removed]

     All advice on AAM is remote from the situation and cannot be relied                    upon                                                                                                  as  a          defence      or                support   -         in          and     of                   itself    -                        should                        legal                        action              be                         taken.
     Competent legal and building professionals should be asked to        advise        in                                                                                                        Real      Life      with               rights      to                inspect         and                 issue                       reports           on            the                                     matters         at                        hand.


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## Superman (20 May 2011)

onq said:


> Raise the question NOW then, before you pour your slab or concrete , covering the stone.
> 
> Inform the Architect and the Contractor that you will hold them both responsible for any problems arising from that source.


That's not a good idea if one is actually trying to get a project done smoothly.

They are responsible and know/should know it. Asking an "innocent" question is the way I'd suggest.


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## onq (23 May 2011)

"Smoothly"?

I'd hope the OP would be trying to get the job done *properly*.

A sphincter-tightening speech by the employer can work wonders.

As previously implied, time may be of the essence, before pouring begins.


ONQ.

     [broken link removed]

     All advice on AAM is remote from the situation and cannot be relied                     upon                                                                                                   as  a          defence       or                support   -         in          and     of                    itself    -                        should                         legal                        action              be                          taken.
     Competent legal and building professionals should be asked to         advise        in                                                                                                         Real      Life       with               rights      to                inspect         and                  issue                       reports           on             the                                     matters         at                         hand.


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## nediaaa (23 May 2011)

onq said:


> Raise the question NOW then, before you pour your slab or concrete , covering the stone.
> 
> Inform the Architect and the Contractor that you will hold them both responsible for any problems arising from that source.
> 
> ...


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## onq (2 Jun 2011)

As Superman has pointed out there are other ways to do what I have  suggested and each to their own. I have outlined the way I have found  most useful over the  past 21 years. It is not however "bad advice".

Building a premises isn't about "good" relationships. Its about  professional working relationships. In my experience, being unwilling  to, or not knowing when to, crack the whip tends to lead to  unprofessional working relationships. Like ALL relationships the parties  need to know the boundaries and work well within them. 

For my part, even though I like them personally, I seldom socialize with  my clients and I don't accept inducements from builders to socialize.

I keep both at a professional distance because in administering a  building contract I have to be even-handed towards both. I am not their  "friend" and employer/clients certainly have expectations of me and are  not slow to remind me of that.

All parties have roles under the contract, a piece of paper some  builders would prefer not to deal with. This may be partly because they  engage in sharp  practice. If employer spots this he/she is well within their rights to  be very intolerant  towards it. A builder's "hurt feelings" sometimes voiced in terms like  "do you not trust my word?" This is nonsense - while many are  trustworthy, a contract seals the deal.

AAM is littered with disasters that come about partly because there is  no contract. The preponderance of these seems to arise because there is  no professional dealing with the job and the client/employer is wholly  beholden to the builder and his "word".

The corollary also applies in respect of the professionals. Any  suggestion that the architect has not discharged his duty or is behaving  in a lax  manner toward the builder should be nipped in the bud.

Reminding someone of their legal responsibility to build compliantly and  stating your intention to hold them legally responsible if they don't  is something everyone involved in buying a house plagued with pyrite  issues would have done if they had known of the problems beforehand.

For the record, most professionals wouldn't see this as intended as a  hurtful rebuke - standards can slip and they know that every project  needs bringing into line from time to time.

ONQ.

      [broken link removed]

      All advice on AAM is remote from the situation and cannot be relied                      upon                                                                                                    as  a           defence       or                support   -         in          and      of                    itself    -                        should                          legal                        action              be                           taken.
      Competent legal and building professionals should be asked to          advise        in                                                                                                          Real      Life        with               rights      to                inspect         and                   issue                       reports           on              the                                     matters         at                          hand.


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