# MaCafee  auto renewal: charged my credit card without permission?



## Tessi (1 Mar 2010)

Hi
I bought a computer four years ago with three years macafee subscription included.  

Last year this expired and I agreed to purchase an extra year and paid for it with my credit card on line.  It cost about €36. 

I had intended to research the internet in the mean time to get advice on the cheapest/best security package, so that I would be more prepared when the year expired.  Anyway the year has gone by, I forgot all about it and then I get an email over the weekend to say Macafee have automatically renewed my subscription and charged me £48.89 (sterling) and used the credit card details I'd given last year.

Now I have rang them this morning and cancelled and they said they give me a refund in 5 days.  To be honest I think it's shocking that they can go ahead without my permission and not only charge me but any amout they want to.  I never normally pay on line for things but I never believed that your credit card details could be used over and over without agreed confirmation. 

If this can happen with MacFee, whats stopping other companies from charging us for bogus items we never asked for. 

Does this mean I can never trust paying with my credit card again on line or is there something I can do to stop my credit card details being used again without my permission?


----------



## paddyc (1 Mar 2010)

*Re: MaCafee Subscription auto renewal*

Its possible in their terms and conditions that a default option allowing them to automatically renew the subscription and billed the card was selected. I have never had this happen to me before however.


----------



## fobs (1 Mar 2010)

*Re: MaCafee Subscription auto renewal*

This is exactly the case as it happened to me. You need to opt out of automatically renewing the subscription. I had an extra year paid for using my credit card details and had to opt out to prevent this happening again. Sneaky really as I never noticed this option when signing up.


----------



## paddyc (1 Mar 2010)

*Re: MaCafee Subscription auto renewal*

I had a free trial for 3 months with a PC of bullguard security suite, never heard of it before then but it got some very good reviews in comparrison with some of the big name products. When the trial was expiring they sent me several emails for renewing all of which I ignored, started at something like €70 and they kept bringing it down, I renewed it for €20 or €22 euro. You could download their 60 day trial http://www.bullguard.com/ and see if you like it. 

If not there are plenty of good free alternatives such as Avast, AVG etc  - there is info on key posts about these free products.


----------



## Tessi (1 Mar 2010)

*Re: MaCafee Subscription auto renewal*

Hi all thanks for your input. 

Yes, I have since found out I did apparently tick (or perhaps more than liklely, not unticked) the option to automatically renew the subscription. 

I don't remember this option at all and do agree that it is very sneaky.  I still think there is something very wrong when a company can go ahead and use credit card details previously given for a different transaction and amount. 

There must be some legislation that requires a seller to aquire confirmation from the buyer, on the date they intend to charge the customer and the amount they intend to charge. 

I totally take responsibility for my stupid negligence in not correctly reading what I have signed up.  However I know I'm not the only one and some times life gets complicated and stressed and we are unfortunately not always going to be in tip top form to be always alert.  We should not have to put up with sellers/companies etc who know this and take advantage. 

If anyone knows who I could contact in order to take this matter further I'd appreciate it.  I am absolutely sick of being walked on in this life.  Time for a change.


----------



## Boyd (1 Mar 2010)

*Re: MaCafee Subscription auto renewal*

I dont think you have any grounds TBH - they offered you the option and you checked (or unchecked it as the case may be). 

I appreciate you are annoyed but they are giving you a refund, which they may not have been legally required to do......

Also, as previously mentioned, I would suggest you get Avast which I find works well.


----------



## mjbo (1 Mar 2010)

*Re: MaCafee Subscription auto renewal*



fobs said:


> This is exactly the case as it happened to me. You need to opt out of automatically renewing the subscription. I had an extra year paid for using my credit card details and had to opt out to prevent this happening again. Sneaky really as I never noticed this option when signing up.


 Same happened here also last Oct/Nov.  However, I found McAfee very good when dealing with the cancellation of the auto-renewal and they did refund my credit card as agreed.  As they were looking to keep me as a customer they offered a 50% reduction in the 1 year subscription (£30.00 instead of the normal £59.99) so I went with that as I did not have the time to look around for an alternative before the subscription expired.


----------



## paddyc (1 Mar 2010)

*Re: MaCafee Subscription auto renewal*



username123 said:


> I dont think you have any grounds TBH - they offered you the option and you checked (or unchecked it as the case may be).
> 
> 
> > There are some companies doing stuff like this but it isn't in breach of any laws, as advised above you don't have anywhere to take your complaint except to McAfee themselves. Ryanair used to do this with Express Boarding, they may have since been made to change this but opt out is an easy way for compainies to make money


----------



## Tessi (1 Mar 2010)

*Re: MaCafee Subscription auto renewal*

Hi guys,

I know where your all coming from when you say I have no grounds for complaint and that they may not legally be obliged to offer me a refund and basically aren't I so lucky they are nice enough to give me one.  Having said that, I wasn't looking for some where to complain as I realise they had one over on me and it was up to me to check the small print etc.  Just because they go about this method of renewing customers subscriptions and payment, doesn't mean it is morally right or we have to except it.  I guess I just wanted to know if anyone knew what steps to take if one isn't happy with the laws/rules as such.


----------



## Vincenzo (1 Mar 2010)

*Re: MaCafee Subscription auto renewal*

They usually send an e-mail prior to an automatic renewal.
Check your junk mail it might be in there. There will most certainly be an option on this e-mail to cancel the automatic subscription settings.
There are free alternatives you can download.

Why pay when you can get it for free


----------



## Tessi (1 Mar 2010)

*Re: MaCafee Subscription auto renewal*

I checked to see if such an email were in my junk email and no there isn't anything.  I guess I am glad this has happened with Macafee because one they seem to be fine at giving refunds in this case, two because, and more importantly I have learnt a very big lesson and three I had no idea that I could get to download anti virus software for Free.  I am going through a major financial crisis and this is good news believe me.  Thanks for all your advice.


----------



## canicemcavoy (1 Mar 2010)

*Re: MaCafee Subscription auto renewal*

There are very good free anti-virus and anti-spyware programs out there; honestly, for a home user to pay for one is a waste.


----------



## Crugers (1 Mar 2010)

*Re: MaCafee Subscription auto renewal*

Good[sic] Old McAfee... 

I've used their AV products for over ten years... Can't complain about the AV products as I've never (to my knowledge) been infected by Virus. But!

In May 2009 they emailed me to tell me that they would use the credit card details they had on file to 'auto-renew' my subscription because _"...McAfee makes certain that your computer protection will continue without interruption..."._ The real reason is so that they can make a sale but enough of that cynicism...
I had 'auto-renew' selected on my McAfee account only because that is the default! To amend it from the default takes time going through a maze of clicking from page to page on their website following supplied links and is buried as deeply and obscurely as they can. Not like their 'Buy Now' link... One click and you are there! I wasn't bothered about the 'auto-renew' because the credit card details were out of date and as such, COULDN'T be used! McAfee had emailed me earlier in the year to advise me that they were out of date and if I didn't update them I'd probably have some downtime without AV cover!
Usually I start from scratch and purchase online from the same McAfee.com site mainly because they always have better deals for 'new' customers than they have for loyal customers of old! 
However in May 2009 the credit card was charged with $99.99USD. 
On checking my McAfee account I noticed the credit card expiry date was amended on their invoice to 02/2021.  Now who could possibly have done that?  McAfee's incredible line is that _"...McAfee works with the credit card companies and other financial institutions to ensure that your credit card information remains up to date..."_ *Yeh! Right! *

So to address the OP original question:
_"...If this can happen with MacFee, whats stopping other companies from charging us for bogus items we never asked for...."_

Absolutely nothing! That's why there is such a lot of it about.
However it is mostly done by disreputable individuals or business and usually because your card or card details have been skimmed or 'scammed'. However your CCard provider usually assists when things, outside your control, go wrong!

And to answer the OP's other question:
_"...I just wanted to know if anyone knew what steps to take if one isn't happy with the laws/rules as such...."_

Well you could go through what I did:
Suffer 8 online 'CHAT' sessions with McAfee Customer Support. And get no where!
Suffer 2 phone calls to McAfee Customer Support. And get no where!
Compose two and post letters detailing the time and date and content of contact in my effort to get a refund including copy invoices and scanned VISA statements as proof that the refund had not been received. And get no where!
Read and reply to a dozen emails most of which read as 'YOU ARE WRONG WE ARE RIGHT' and most of which are sent from no-reply email addresses.
But in the end of the day, well almost the end of the year, 31/10/2009, 6 months after being charged, receive a nice email from McAfee 'explaining' (the indefensible) and offering me a years free subscription... But that was from someone on or above Tier 3 Complaints process. Climbing Mt Everest without oxygen and legs is easier than getting to Tier 3!

Anyway it is great (for them) to know that now I won't have to bother them for another 18 months or so... 

McAfee AV = capable AV that is a LITTLE resource hungry on your computer.
McAfee Customer Support= As a customer you must be of support to McAfee even when they are 100% wrong!

And finally to the OP's statement _"...I have no grounds for complaint and that they may not legally be obliged to offer me a refund..."_
I purchased from their US site and I couldn't get a handle on my rights because they would be Stateside rights I would be entitled to.
However I noticed you were charge GBP£ so it is likely you purchased from the UK site. You would have been covered under EU Law on Distant Selling and would have a right to return the goods and get a refund within certain time constraints.
HTH 
(It has helped me!)


----------



## Tessi (1 Mar 2010)

*Re: MaCafee Subscription auto renewal*

Hi Crugers

Am I understanding this right.  MaCaFee could actually change the expiry date on your cc so that their payment could go through???


----------



## ajapale (1 Mar 2010)

*Re: MaCafee Subscription auto renewal*

Miscellaneous  Non-financial Questions is the wrong forum fot this type of question. But I see how you might be confused!

Ill review the therad and move it to one of the following.

IT
Banking and Credit Cards
Consumer Issues.

aj
moderator

The question of autorenewal of online subscriptions has come up on this board several times before. If I can find links Ill post them here.

EDIT: Ive moved the thread to  Consumer  Issues for the time being.

This read is interesting:
[broken link removed]


----------



## Crugers (1 Mar 2010)

*Re: MaCafee Subscription auto renewal*



Tessi said:


> Hi Crugers
> 
> Am I understanding this right. MaCaFee could actually change the expiry date on your cc so that their payment could go through???


 
Well if you, or anyone, have the credit card number and name and CSV etc but are missing the appropriate expiry date then of course you could submit a charge on that credit card with a guess at the actual expiry date in the hope it goes through!

Now I'm not saying that any company whose premier product is the provision of security software for computers would have a policy to actually amend the data records of a longstanding customer they had, just so they could have yet another sale valued at USD$100.00, and then go on and make a typo on the corresponding invoice.
I mean that would be an unbelievably ridiculous, blasé and risky way of operating for any prestigious security software supplier.

However I am saying that McAfee’s Customers Support, having emailed me on 24/06/2009 to say I was due a rebate, proceeded to obfuscate for a further 4+ months before actually confirming and remitting the rebate of USD$99.99 to the credit card. I actually lost €12 in USD$ exchange rate changes!


----------



## Complainer (1 Mar 2010)

*Re: MaCafee Subscription auto renewal: without my permsission, who to complain to?*

So just to be absolutely clear, 02/2021 was not the correct expiry date on that credit card - right?

Did you try disputing the transaction with your CC provider?


----------



## Crugers (2 Mar 2010)

*Re: MaCafee Subscription auto renewal: without my permsission, who to complain to?*



Complainer said:


> So just to be absolutely clear, 02/2021 was not the correct expiry date on that credit card - right?


 
Right - 02/2021 was not the data they had on file and was not the expiry date on the card!



> Did you try disputing the transaction with your CC provider?


 
No - I wanted McAfee to explain why they had an 'imaginary' expiry date and to actually rebate the charge. I had an email from McAfee confirming that the rebate was due AND paid. I could prove it had not been paid to the credit card charged. The credit card provider option was always there as a fallback option but my dispute was with Mcfee.


----------



## Brendan Burgess (2 Mar 2010)

Unsubscribing from McAfee


Be very careful about direct debits refers to bank accounts, but it's the same principle. Probably even more important on credit cards.


----------



## Crugers (2 Mar 2010)

Brendan said:


> ...Be very careful about direct debits refers to bank accounts, but it's the same principle. Probably even more important on credit cards...


 
IPSO say that you can't have a Direct Debit on a credit card. You CAN set up "recurring transactions’ ". These are covered by "Credit Card Scheme Rules" which are set and implemented by individual credit card suppliers.

That would explain why credit card customers have significantly more trouble cancelling, what they believe are direct debits, on their credit cards.


----------



## bond-007 (2 Mar 2010)

I had a couple of recurring transactions set up on my credit card. I then had a call from MBNA telling me of some potential fraud on my account. As a precaution they cancelled my card and issued me with a new number. My recurring transactions continued as before despite both the card number, expiry date and CCV number changing. 

So it seems cancelling your card will not stop transactions like these.


----------



## ajapale (4 Mar 2010)

Moved again! from Consumer  Issues to  BBB&CC


----------



## Complainer (3 Sep 2011)

I'm due to uninstall McAfee from a shared laptop. I don't have the any account details to hand, as the person who registered it is not contactable at the moment. 

Any tips as to how I can best ensure that the owner is not rebilled would be very welcome.


----------

