# What happens if you can't find a beneficiary?



## Thirsty

My question is pretty much what it says on the tin.  Beneficiary hasn't been heard of for more than 5 years, have tried to trace, checked last known address, placed ads etc.

At some point I guess we have to come to the conclusion that beneficiary has either passed away or basically doesn't want to come forward.  

Are there rules about what happens to their share of the estate?  Beneficiary has two adult children, but is divorced.

Mods: sorry could have sworn I was posting this in the Wills etc., section - would you mind moving it for me please? thank you.


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## mercman

Obviously the matter will have to be brought to a solicitor. However on the basis of the information provided, that they have two adult children, it really cannot be that difficult to find the person concerned.


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## Vanilla

If the amount is large enough you could investigate having them declared legally dead so their benefit could pass to their children. Depends on whether the amount is enough to make it worthwhile to do so. If only a small amount then it will be up to the administrator/executor.


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## Concert

As far as I know if a beneficiary has passed away their share will usually pass to the deceased person's next of kin.


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## Thirsty

Thanks everyone for your replies
@Mercman 





> that they have two adult children, it really cannot be that difficult to find the person concerned


Have you attempted to trace someone before? Please tell me what other avenues you can suggest?

@Concert - we don't know for certain if the beneficiary is deceased.  

@Vanilla - based on what the property was sold for and the number of other beneficiaries my rough estimate would be in the region of E50k.  

Not wealth beyond one's wildest dreams, but enough not to want to see it going to the cats & dogs home.  

Is the decision (to seek to have the beneficiary declared legally dead) entirely up to the executor?


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## Thirsty

Update:

There is indemnity insurance available which can be taken out by the Executors to allow them to distribute the legacy of the untraceable beneficiary.

It is also possible to get something called a Benjamin Order which is a court order again to distribute the unclaimed legacy.  However, I gather this is a relatively expensive option.

A fly in the ointment however is that the Will itself says the legacy is held in trust until the children of the untraceable beneficiary are 25 years of age.

Can anyone tell me if this clause can be contested? 

Both children are at University and not unreasonably would be hoping to use the legacy to support their education.


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## niceoneted

I take it so that the 2 offspring of the beneficiary that cannot be found are going to now benefit but only when they reach 25. And at that stage they will inherit circa 25k each plus any interests. 
They may be able to get a loan on the basis that the money is going to be available to them on reaching 25.


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## Thirsty

> ...are going to now benefit


Don't know that for certain; still don't know if that decision is for the executors only?



> ...money is going to be available to them on reaching 25


That's not guaranteed at this point.


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## Redstarlet

Be very careful on tax issues arising here.. check out to see if Discretionary Trust tax is an issue. A tax of 6% may be applicable once the "objects" of the trust turn 21yrs old and an annual tax of 1% thereafter. Be very slow to distribute the estate (without proper legal and tax advise) if you are the executor as you are liable if the estate is incorrectly distributed.


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## Thirsty

I don't think it's a Discretionary Trust in that sense? 

The will says:

_X share of my estate to Joe Bloggs provided that if he shall have predeceased me then his children Jane Bloggs and Mary Bloggs shall take the share he would have taken if living at my death in equal shares to be held upon trust upon attaining the age of 25 years._

Can the executor 'ignore' the age requirement here?  

For the sake of the question, lets assume either the insurance policy or Benjamin order route is taken and the executor is covered should the untraceable beneficiary turn up on someones doorstep.


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## Thirsty

Another update:

It seems that before anything is done in regards to the beneficiary/legacy; it must first be proven that all attempts have been made to trace said beneficiary.

from what I can gather this effectively this means using a Tracing/Enquiry Agency in order to stand up as 'all means possible'.

_So, and this is a long shot, can any of the Solicitors here recommend one? Preferably one with a UK office, since its most likely the search will be there._

I've googled plenty of them, but they all seem to have non-geographic numbers and 'virtual offices' for addresses.  Doesn't inspire confidence.  A recommendation would be a big help.


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## csirl

I gather that you know the 2 adult children (otherwise you would not know they are in college). Are you saying that the 2 children do not know whether or not their father is alive or dead? Sounds improbable that they wouldnt know or would not have the ability to find out. Surely they know of or can trace other relatives on their fathers side who would know? Also, have you done a Death Certificate search for his name?



> _So, and this is a long shot, can any of the Solicitors here recommend one? Preferably one with a UK office, since its most likely the search will be there._


 
What about that firm on that BBC TV series (now being repeated on Discovery), that specialises in tracing the missing beneficiaries of Wills? Name of programme escapes me.


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## csirl

Here it is:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b007nms5

Heir Hunters.

Firm is Faser & Fraser

http://www.fraserandfraser.com/


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## Thirsty

> Are you saying that the 2 children do not know whether or not their  father is alive or dead?


Yes.



> Sounds improbable that they wouldnt know or  would not have the ability to find out.


Not really, left their last known address, hasn't been in contact.  Don't have a current address/phone number, none of his family has heard from him, he hasn't turned up to any family funerals etc.



> Surely they know of or can trace other relatives on their fathers side  who would know?


None of his relatives have had contact from him either.



> Also, have you done a Death Certificate search for his  name?


In Ireland, yes - every single county for every single year since he was last heard of - takes quite a time!   UK is another story.

Thank you for that link - I'd never heard of the programme before (I obviously lead a very sheltered life!) - think that will be very useful.

Updated to add: the age limit only applies if Joe Bloggs died BEFORE the deceased.  If he died afterwards, then my understanding is (assuming he hadn't made a will) intestacy will apply and the children would therefore share the legacy between them.

Checked out the website of the company referenced above, they don't take instructions from the public - they specialise in estates that will otherwise revert to the Treasury.  Which isn't the case here.  But I might be able to get another lead from there.

Thanks for your help.


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## csirl

> Checked out the website of the company referenced above, they don't take instructions from the public - they specialise in estates that will otherwise revert to the Treasury. Which isn't the case here. But I might be able to get another lead from there.


 
You're correct about the public, but I think they, and similar companies, do take inquiries submitted by solicitors.


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## Thirsty

Update - just if there's anyone else in this position it might be helpful.

The firm referenced above (Fraser & Fraser) have been instructed by a Solicitor; I gather the costs are in the hundreds rather than thousands and it can be met from the legacy rather than funded from someones own pocket. 

The adult children had to deliver a kick up rear end to the person responsible for the estate in question, the Solicitors instruction could (and should in my view) have been made years ago.  But that's another days work.


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## Thirsty

Another update:

The so-called Enquiry Agency did not prove to be particularly useful.  Their 'report' consisted of a re-hash of the information already provided and not only gave nothing new but in their conclusions were wildly inaccurate.  Waste of time and money.

The next course of action is to go to court and seek a Benjamin order to allow the estate to be distributed to the adult children of the original beneficiary; I understand the executor can do this themselves.

Will let you know how it goes!


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## Deiseblue

The Salvation Army provide an invaluable resource - the family tracing service.

Many professional firms providing Executor & Trustee services have traced missing beneficiaries via this resource.


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## Thirsty

Already been done Deiseblue, unfortunately they weren't able to turn up anything.


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## emeralds

I have a friend whose brother was declared 'dead' two years ago. He had emigrated to America about 25 years ago, kept up contact for about 3 years and then completely disappeared without trace. They had gone over several times to look for him and found nothing. His other brother died 3 years ago and had left him a considerable amount of money (in excess of €250,000) so they needed to do something. I will see her next week and ask how they went about it...


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## pansyflower

Check out the Mormon church, 
they have the largest genealogy database in the world.


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## Thirsty

I think Emerald's issue was resolved, but I would be interested to hear what they did.

Not sure the Mormon database would be a lot of help in the UK/Ireland however.


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## terrysgirl33

AFAIk the Mormon database has all the records for the UK and Ireland.  Are you talking about finding out if the death of this person was registered?


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## Thirsty

Death records have already been checked.  

The 'Mormon' database only seems to have historical records rather than current ones.


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## Thirsty

Thought you might like to hear there's a happy ending to this story.

The executor purchased an insurance policy which will pay out in the event that the (now presumed deceased) Father turns up.

The two adult children will shortly be receiving their legacies.


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## moonman

i hope someone can answer this for me.  a friend of mine who lives abroad and was a benificery of his late uncles will told me that his uncle also left some money to his ex wife whom he got divorced  from 35 years ago in canada , the address used was the last address the ex wife lived in ,and she cannot be located . the man who died came back to live in ireland following the divorce and never had children or never remarried. he died two and a half years ago he has been told by a cousin here in ireland the money he left to his ex wife will go to the state , i dont think thats correct hence my enquiry.


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## Thirsty

Your post isn't clear and the lack of punctuation doesn't help.

Your friend, let's call him Jack was left some money by his Uncle John.

John also left a legacy to Jack's former wife or his own former wife? 

Either way this person cannot be traced; is that what you are saying?

What efforts has the executor made to trace the beneficiary?


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## moonman

sorry about punctuation etc its possibly an age, and lack of keyboard experiance thing, as im nearer to 70 than 60.  yes you are correct about the situation.  i dont know how hard the executor has tried. but my friend lets call him Jack  was told when he was over here in ireland , that if  Johns ex wife cannot be traced  the money would be left to the state, and that didn't seem right to me , hence the enquiry.    the man died about two and a half years ago..


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## moonman

thirsty.... have you an answer to my  enquiry  .  thanks in advance.


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## Thirsty

Ok, so my understanding is that if the beneficiary cannot be traced and no next of kin are known about (in my case there were two adult children) then yes the legacy reverts to the state.  

The executor is obliged to make all reasonable efforts to trace the beneficiary or their next of kin.

The legacy cannot be reverted to the estate and distributed to other beneficiaries; so it makes no difference to Jack either way.


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## Geoffrey Sadler

pansyflower said:


> Check out the Mormon church,
> they have the largest genealogy database in the world.



Well that is sort of true - I have been researching Salt Lake City, UT and the genealogical databases heir finders & other organizations expert at locating unclaimed estates and unclaimed inheritance assets, that are based in Utah, have access to... It's not a matter of contacting the Mormon Church however - I believe it is more a matter of working through one of the probate investigation services or heir locator services.  They are ones with the genealogical and probate data... not the Church, as far as I can see.


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## Geoffrey Sadler

Thirsty said:


> Death records have already been checked.
> 
> The 'Mormon' database only seems to have historical records rather than current ones.



I've been looking into all of this, missing inheritance assets and so forth...  and from what I can see it isn't so much the Mormons, but seasoned probate investigation services in the Salt Lake, Utah area that have current probate, estate and genealogical data.


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## valery

My sister in law left a percentage of the residue of her estate to be divided between her 9 nieces and nephews.  They each inherited approx €3,000.  The final beneficiary  cannot be traced.  
Can it be given to his only sibling?  They both live in England.


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## jpd

It will fall into the residue of the estate  - who was that left to (after the % given to the nieces & nephews) ?


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## valery

jpd said:


> It will fall into the residue of the estate  - who was that left to (after the % given to the nieces & nephews) ?


its a small estate, no property involved.   She listed a % of her estate  to be divided amongst the nieces and nephews and a further % to be given to each of her sisters, making up the total.


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## jpd

Assuming that the will was well written (?), then the unfilled legacy will be divided amonsgt the sisters

You said "My sister in law" and then "his only sibling" so it is not clear what the actual situation is

Whoever is the executor should contact a solicitor to make sure that they are following the law and not leaving themnselves open to a law suit


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## valery

jpd , thank you for your reply.  Sorry about the lack of clarity.  The sibling referred to is the sister and only sibling of the nephew who cannot be traced.  She is also his next of kin.

As regards the wording of the will, the residue was allocated in %.  30% to her nieces & nephews, 35% to her sister A, 35% to her sister B.

As you suggest, probably best to consult a solicitor.  The executor had thought to avoid that as the sum involved was so small.


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## jpd

That's even more unclear - who exactly cannot be traced - nephew, Sister A or Sister B?

If they can not be traced, it looks like their share falls to the state - it seems like the estate was worth around € 90k but your postings do not make that very clear


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## valery

One of the nephews, who is due to inherit €3,000 cannot be traced.  He has one sibling a sister who has already received her €3,000.
She is her brothers next of kin.  My query was, as her brother cannot be traced, can his €3,000 be given to his sister.  The other beneficiaries would agree to this.


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## jpd

http://www.step.ie/wp-content/uploads/2012/05/Locating-missing-beneficiaries-in-Estate-Administration.pdf


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## valery

jpd said:


> http://www.step.ie/wp-content/uploads/2012/05/Locating-missing-beneficiaries-in-Estate-Administration.pdf


Thank you.


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