# Assistance with my Mum's state pension application



## Blackrock1 (20 Jun 2022)

Hi folks,

hopefully someone can give some guidance or a steer here. My mum is 67, she applied for the contributory state pension last year and was told she didnt qualify. She wont qualify for a means tested pension. She is still working.

They sent her a letter last year that shows she has:
Reckonable paid - 452
Reckonable credited - 44

Things they appear to be missing:
 - She turned 66 in June 2021, she would have worked for Jan - May (assume she should have 19 / 20 extra weeks credit for this)
 - A couple of empoyments 1977-79 where she was working full time 
 - She was a stay at home mother of children under the age of 12 from Sept 1980 to June 1996 there doesnt appear to be anything credited for this and i believe there should be.

They have been replying saying the records department are looking into the missing employments for 9 months now with no sign of any update. 

Appreciate you may need more information but what can i do to progress this for her, or what should her next steps be (especially re the period she was a home carer)

Thanks in advance.


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## Protocol (20 Jun 2022)

Homemaker's Scheme
					

This scheme makes it easier for a homemaker to qualify for the State Pension (Contributory).




					www.citizensinformation.ie
				




The Homemakers scheme started 6 April 1994.


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## gipimann (20 Jun 2022)

Contributions are only counted up to the last full year before the person turns 66, so those paid in 2021 aren't counted.


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## Groucho (20 Jun 2022)

To be eligible for the SCP she needs to have made a total of 520 PAID PRSI contributions from the time that she started working until the end of the year BEFORE she turns 66.

You state that she has a total of 452, so she needs to bring that total up to 520 before she'll be eligible.   So, if she or DSP can establish that PRSI contributions were made (or stamps paid) by her employer in respect of her 1970's employments, then she should be able to cross the 520  paid contributions threshold, but failing this it's unlikely that she'll be eligible.


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## Conan (20 Jun 2022)

If she can get above the 520 Paid contributions   then she can get Credits for the child minding under the new Homecaring Periods Scheme, which was introduced in 2018 and gives credits for periods pre 1994. That could give her an additional 16 years credits ( calculated on the Total Contribution Approach for the State Pension).


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## Blackrock1 (20 Jun 2022)

Conan said:


> If she can get above the 520 Paid contributions   then she can get Credits for the child minding under the new Homecaring Periods Scheme, which was introduced in 2018 and gives credits for periods pre 1994. That could give her an additional 16 years credits ( calculated on the Total Contribution Approach for the State Pension).


Thanks, thats what was confusing me, so she needs to get above 520 before the homecaring periods scheme kicks in (and if it does then it should increase her eligibility by a decent amount)


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## Blackrock1 (20 Jun 2022)

Groucho said:


> To be eligible for the SCP she needs to have made a total of 520 PAID PRSI contributions from the time that she started working until the end of the year BEFORE she turns 66.
> 
> You state that she has a total of 452, so she needs to bring that total up to 520 before she'll be eligible.   So, if she or DSP can establish that PRSI contributions were made (or stamps paid) by her employer in respect of her 1970's employments, then she should be able to cross the 520  paid contributions threshold, but failing this it's unlikely that she'll be eligible.


yes thanks, that makes sense, to the extent the records department have been very slow in coming back on this is there anything we can do? or just sit on our hands, follow up and wait?


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## T McGibney (20 Jun 2022)

Blackrock1 said:


> yes thanks, that makes sense, to the extent the records department have been very slow in coming back on this is there anything we can do? or just sit on our hands, follow up and wait?


Is there any possibility of doing your own research, for example chasing up any available evidence for her unlisted1970s employments, with a view to submitting that the DSP to support her application?


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## NoRegretsCoyote (20 Jun 2022)

Blackrock1 said:


> yes thanks, that makes sense, to the extent the records department have been very slow in coming back on this is there anything we can do?


It's an extremely long shot, but any payslips she has from this period could help. An approach to the employer (if in existence still) might also help.


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## T McGibney (20 Jun 2022)

NoRegretsCoyote said:


> It's an extremely long shot, but any payslips she has from this period could help. An approach to the employer (if in existence still) might also help.


Or, perhaps, testimony from former co-workers.


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## Blackrock1 (20 Jun 2022)

T McGibney said:


> Is there any possibility of doing your own research, for example chasing up any available evidence for her unlisted1970s employments, with a view to submitting that the DSP to support her application?


she has sent them the details, the entities, the owner, co workers names etc, i think thats all she can get together unfortunately.


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## Blackrock1 (20 Jun 2022)

NoRegretsCoyote said:


> It's an extremely long shot, but any payslips she has from this period could help. An approach to the employer (if in existence still) might also help.


the employer was subsumed into musgraves back in the 80s apparently.


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## NoRegretsCoyote (20 Jun 2022)

Blackrock1 said:


> the employer was subsumed into musgraves back in the 80s apparently.


She should write a letter to Musgraves setting out:


The entity and business area she worked for
Rough periods of employment
PPSN
Name, maiden name, DOB, address at the time
A request for copies of any records relating to her employment

Musgrave's is a company with a nine-figure turnover and should have the capacity to deal with this. Maybe there is nothing on file but it is only the cost of a stamp to try to find out. She may need to send reminders too.

It's: *Musgrave Group, Musgrave House, Ballycurreen, Airport Road, Cork, T12 TN99*


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## bstop (20 Jun 2022)

Try asking Revenue if they can provide details of her income tax for the missing years.


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## Blackrock1 (20 Jun 2022)

So it turns out the company wasnt bought by Musgraves, she had that wrong, good news they still exist, its avoncourt packaging in the cork, bad news is that they only have payroll records going back 7 years.


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## T McGibney (20 Jun 2022)

Blackrock1 said:


> So it turns out the company wasnt bought by Musgraves, she had that wrong, good news they still exist, its avoncourt packaging in the cork, bad news is that they only have payroll records going back 7 years.


Would they have any other records (HR etc) longer than that, that could verify that she was working there at one point?


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## Blackrock1 (20 Jun 2022)

T McGibney said:


> Would they have any other records (HR etc) longer than that, that could verify that she was working there at one point?


they suggested not but it might be worth sending a letter to them as i assume she just got a clerk in the payroll section.


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## Sue Ellen (20 Jun 2022)

Blackrock1 said:


> for 9 months now with no sign of any update.




Can she contact a good local politician and see if they can get things moving as 9 months is far too long to be kept waiting for a reply.

Many years ago when my mother was told she did not qualify because she was a few contributions short she went to her local (enthusiastic to get votes) politician and they were able to get it sorted for her and she got her pension.


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## Steven Barrett (20 Jun 2022)

It is unlikely that a company would keep records going back 45 years. They'd all be in paper format and take up a huge amount of space. You can imagine the condition they would be in even if they did. Blank pages with yellow stains. It would be unlikely that they transferred them to digital copies as there would have been no need to. 

Your best bet is the dept of welfare and get them to complete their record search going back to the 70's. They have to keep records of people's PRSI contributions, so they will have transferred the records to digital copies.


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## gipimann (20 Jun 2022)

Some of the old records held by the Department may still be kept on microfiche (they existed during my time there), so searching can be a lengthy process.  Did your mother give the Department any old insurance number(s) she may have had pre-1979?


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## Black Sheep (20 Jun 2022)

Could the "Home Caring Period Scheme" be used here to help to qualify?


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## Conan (20 Jun 2022)

Black Sheep said:


> Could the "Home Caring Period Scheme" be used here to help to qualify?


Only if she has at least 520 PAID Contributions. Then Credits can add to that.


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## Blackrock1 (20 Jun 2022)

Steven Barrett said:


> It is unlikely that a company would keep records going back 45 years. They'd all be in paper format and take up a huge amount of space. You can imagine the condition they would be in even if they did. Blank pages with yellow stains. It would be unlikely that they transferred them to digital copies as there would have been no need to.
> 
> Your best bet is the dept of welfare and get them to complete their record search going back to the 70's. They have to keep records of people's PRSI contributions, so they will have transferred the records to digital copies.


Yep that’s the plan they are just being extremely slow about it !


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## Blackrock1 (21 Jun 2022)

got her pre PPS tax no, so she is sending that on, hopefully that helps fill in some gaps.


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## Groucho (21 Jun 2022)

Blackrock1 said:


> got her pre PPS tax no, so she is sending that on, hopefully that helps fill in some gaps.



The number that may help is an "Insurance Number" starting with a "W"


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## Blackrock1 (21 Jun 2022)

Groucho said:


> The number that may help is an "Insurance Number" starting with a "W"


yes thats what she got. thank you!


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## Sue Ellen (21 Jun 2022)

Blackrock1 said:


> They sent her a letter last year that shows she has:
> Reckonable paid - 452
> Reckonable credited - 44



Just wondering have you, out of curiosity,  and printed off her records just in case any changes have been made since last year.


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## Blackrock1 (22 Jun 2022)

Sue Ellen said:


> Just wondering have you, out of curiosity,  and printed off her records just in case any changes have been made since last year.


im not sure if she has one, but will check, she has been in communication with the revenue every month since and they reply that there is no update so i assume there wont be any new info on there?


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## Sue Ellen (22 Jun 2022)

@Blackrock1

I'm presuming you mean Dept. of Social Protection as surely they are the people checking out her pension and contributions rather than Revenue?

I mentioned it just in case the information there might have changed since she first asked.  Its so simple to set up an account with full access and print off the information there so nothing to lose.


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## Blackrock1 (22 Jun 2022)

Sue Ellen said:


> @Blackrock1
> 
> I'm presuming you mean Dept. of Social Protection as surely they are the people checking out her pension and contributions rather than Revenue?
> 
> I mentioned it just in case the information there might have changed since she first asked.  Its so simple to set up an account with full access and print off the information there so nothing to lose.


sorry yes that is correct (i am relaying this second hand mostly!)


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## Paul O Mahoney (22 Jun 2022)

@Blackrock1 , Hi that company is 40 years old and if I remember it's up by the Airport Road, not far from the Musgraves Cash and Carry. 

Theres no way that they only have 9 years records, they were involved with Musgraves but I can't remember might have been packaging from when Supervalu,  Centra etc were being supplied from Cork. 

Believe me I know of companies in Cork that have records going back 100 years,  obviously not on site but archived .

Best of luck a letter won't go astray and with 3 Government ministers in the constituency surely you're going to be find something out.


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## Blackrock1 (13 Jul 2022)

we appear to have made a little progress on this and someone from social welfare is meeting with her next week to try progress things but can anyone explain to me what reckonable credited contributions mean as they dont seem to count to her total but she has 50 of them. in one year she has reckonable paid 7 and reckonable credited 44 but its only the 7 that is counted in her total.


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## Groucho (13 Jul 2022)

Blackrock1 said:


> we appear to have made a little progress on this and someone from social welfare is meeting with her next week to try progress things but can anyone explain to me what reckonable credited contributions mean as they dont seem to count to her total but she has 50 of them. in one year she has reckonable paid 7 and reckonable credited 44 but its only the 7 that is counted in her total.



Maybe her reckonable credits already exceed the maximum allowed?


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## gipimann (13 Jul 2022)

The first hurdle is getting the 520 paid contributions. Credits won't be considered until this figure is reached. Reckonable credits don't count towards the 520 minimum, but can be included once that threshold is reached to calculate the amount of pension due.

A credit is granted when a person signs on, claims illness benefit, etc.


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