# Key Post: Pharmacy prices



## zag (8 May 2004)

Does anyone know if there is supposed to be any price control on prescription medicines ?

I just had to fill similar (identical medication, different quantities) prescriptions in two different pharmacies and the prices were miles apart for the same product.

The thing is - when you have a prescription for medicine you are generally not on for spending time in the market seeing who has the best value today.  You find a pharmacy and get the prescription filled.  Pharmacies do not have a price list on display where you can check the price.  I know you can ask before you pay, but since the event is normally a one-off people are unlikely to know what the expected price would be for any particular medication.

Anyway, pharmacy 1 charged €1.075 per tablet for a quantity of 6 and pharmacy 2 charged €0.491 per tablet for a quantity of 9.  Pharmacy 2 is a small local pharmacy who presumably doesn't enjoy the economies of scale which pharmacy 1 enjoys and so if anything should be more expensive, but yet the price is less than half that of pharmacy 2.

The thing is I know I could have asked the price and I willingly handed over the money without querying the value, but with a sick child you're not in the mood for generating aggro over a few euro.

I just think it is ridiculous that we can have price control on beer/wine/spirits and no control on the prices charged for medication.

The tablets were exactly the same - same manufacturer, same stength, same batch number on the bubble strip even.

z


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## fred in bed (8 May 2004)

*pharmacy prices*

as far as i know there is a fee involved for all medicines on prescription irrespective of amount of medicine involved. so you should really compare "like with like" i.e. 9 tablets from pharmacy1 with 9 tablets from pharmacy2


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## zag (8 May 2004)

*Hmm*

Hmm, you might be right, but as it happens 9 from pharmacy 2 cost *less in total* than 6 from pharmacy 1.

The only difference is that the purchase in pharmacy 2 also inlcuded some other medication, so the cost might have been spread (if it is a fixed cost per transaction).

It might be correct, but I would find it strange that a fixed cost per purchase isn't itemised out if it is fixed and unavoidable.

z


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## rainyday (9 May 2004)

*Re: Hmm*

I don't believe that are any price controls for retail sales. I think there are fixed prices for some (possibly all) drugs provided under a medical card.


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## Grizzly (10 May 2004)

*10% discount.*

I started ringing around to get prices for medicines. Each pharmacy that I rang were quoting the same price. I was told that the pharmecutical companies set the prices. However if anyone lives near U.C.D. Belfield, they have a chemist in the Student centre that will give 10% off to students. They never ask to see your student card. If you are a mature student and enroll in a credit adult education course you are entitled to avail of all student services. Hope this helps.


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## NathanielStarbuck (10 May 2004)

*Re: Pharmacy prices*

Everyone should make sure that they are aware of / enroled in the Drugs Payment Scheme. That way you never have to pay more than 78 euro per month for your whole family's prescription meds. 

Even if you rarely top this amount in a given month, it costs nothing to enrol, so it's handy to have just in case. 



Also, remember that you can claim back cost of prescription meds at top tax rate at the year end using form MED1, so that's another potential 42% off.


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## sueellen (10 May 2004)

*Re: Pharmacy prices*

Nathaniel,

"Also, remember that you can claim back cost of prescription meds at top tax rate at the year end using form MED1, so that's another potential 42% off"

Does the excess of €125 (single) and €250 (family) apply to this also?


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## rainyday (10 May 2004)

*Re: Pharmacy prices*



> Does the excess of €125 (single) and €250 (family) apply to this also?


Just filled out my own form over the weekend. The excess applies to your entire medical spend for the year, including perscriptions, GP costs, diagnostic procedures etc etc.

There is no specific excess for perscription costs only.


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## NathanielStarbuck (10 May 2004)

*Re: Pharmacy prices*

Yes, I forgot about the annual excess, but it doesn't take many GP bills to get past that.

It works roughly like this:

Add all your prescriptions, GP bill, hospital costs etc for the year.
Subtract the excess of 125 or 250
Subtract any money you got back from VHI/BUPA
The result can be credited against tax 

Also, you can claim for prior years; so if you have GP bills and prescription receipts lying around from a few years ago you should dig them out. 

I recently got a total of 1,300 euro back in two cheques covering 2002 and 2003 (there were some private maternity fees in there).


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## Michael (11 May 2004)

*Bit off-topic though.......*

In Italy if your doc prescribes you  eg; "Pluxaton TM" and you go to you Pharmacist, they must produce all the generic brands of the same ingredient and allow you to choose, according to price if you so wish.

Really off topic, they must also supply a service FOC, in relation to advice on whether or not your mushrooms are edible!


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## Tommy (11 May 2004)

*Re: Bit off-topic though.......*



> I just think it is ridiculous that we can have price control on beer/wine/spirits and no control on the prices charged for medication.



There is no price control on beer/wine/spirits in this country.  Suppliers can charge what they like for such items once they obey fairly basic rules re price displays etc


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## zag (11 May 2004)

*Re: Bit off-topic though.......*

Tommy - you're right.  I just used the wrong terminology.  I was referring to the price display situation.  I know publicans can (and do) charge whatever they like as long as the price is clearly on display.

z


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## gerry (13 May 2004)

*pharmacies*

I agree with you Zag. Who can we lobby ? One should be able to go into a pharmacist and see a pricelist. How does one know whether they are been ripped off or not ? 

Anyone any idea which pharmacy tends to be cheaper than another ?

What is their profit margin ?


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## rainyday (13 May 2004)

*Re: pharmacies*



> One should be able to go into a pharmacist and see a pricelist.


A pricelist! For all of the thousands of possible drugs on the market? Come on, Gerry - the pricelist would take up a small room, and destroy a forest if they have to reprint it every time a price changes.

If you want to know the price, just ask beforehand. Better still, give them a ring and let your fingers do the walking.


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## gerry (13 May 2004)

*priced out*

To be fair rainyday, a pc could do the job quite adequately or perhaps my redundant website could offer to post an updated list. I dont see why a pharmacy should be able to charge different dispensing fees, product charges without informing the consumer. There are hundreds of different prices for life insurance yet the life insurance manages to come up with a price list ! The financial services industry has got battered for years - and rightly so - now it is time for the pharmacies & drug companies to be cleaned up also. We get ripped off so badly for prescriptions in this country. 

Many middle class people who are struggling to pay morgagaes, rent, bills dont go to their GP when they are sick at first because of the cost (1) of visit to gp (2) cost of drugs. So many perservere with their symptoms until they either get better or their condition gets worse. However someone who has a medical card, gets whatever drugs or gp visits whenever, whatever they want. 

Look at the price of a visit to Gp in other countries, cost of drugs in europe....


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## rainyday (13 May 2004)

*Re: priced out*

What is the problem with just asking the pharmacist 'How much'?


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## gerry (14 May 2004)

*Like for like*

I equate it to having to ask how much something is in a Spar.


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## NathanielStarbuck (14 May 2004)

*Re: Like for like*

If you're buying something from behind the counter in Spar, like batteries or aspirins, you'd have to ask them how much...


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## gerry (15 May 2004)

*spar*

.....but I'd always buy aspirin in a pharmacy........


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## rainyday (15 May 2004)

*Re: spar*

Remember that the additional administration & IT costs of any such 'price list' system will ultimately be passed on to the consumer. I can't see any problem with just asking the price in advance.


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## gerry (15 May 2004)

*pharmacist*

Are you a pharmacist by any chance Rainyday ? 

My point is quite simple: prices are high in Ireland, too high in comparison with many other European countries. 

Prices vary from pharmacy to pharmacy. 

If I knew that the generic Clonmel Chemical product was 1/3 of the price of the market leader brand written on the scrip I would buy the cheaper one in many instances. 

If I was lucky enough to have a medical card I wouldn't have to think of making a choice because my experience is that the more expensive brand is always chosen by the GP.


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## XXXAnother PersonXXX (16 May 2004)

*.*

Wouldn't pharmacies  have a price list on a PC anyway? How do they track their sales etc, otherwise?


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## rainyday (16 May 2004)

*Re: .*

Gerry, I've no argument with you about prices being high. I'm struggling to get the following two points through to you;

1) Making a price list available to customers will involve additional costs, which will ultimately be passed on to customers by way of even higher prices.
2) There is a simple, cheap way of achieving your objective  (which would not incur any additional costs) by simply asking the pharmacist at the counter or by phone what the cost is going to be beforehand.

Hi AP - Systems designed for use by staff and systems designed for use by the great unwashed are very different.


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## gerry (16 May 2004)

*ah come on*

"Making a price list available to customers will involve additional costs, which will ultimately be passed on to customers by way of even higher prices"

- so what. Making Insurance companies & insurance brokers disclose their charges & commissions DID NOT increase prices to the public it REDUCED them. Competition reduces prices. Look at the effect B&Q have had on the Irish DIY market. It gave a kick up the This post will be deleted if not edited to remove bad language to Woodies & Atlantic who have improved their stores beyond belief.

"There is a simple, cheap way of achieving your objective (which would not incur any additional costs) by simply asking the pharmacist at the counter or by phone what the cost is going to be beforehand."

- Why should someone have to do that ? Imagine going into a SPAR and having to ask them how much something is going to be beforehand - they have many many products OR come to think of it, an Insurance Company OR a doctor's surgery OR a Bank OR a restaurant OR a pub OR a hotel OR a travel agent OR an online store OR a bookshop. The list is endless.

My experience is that prices are not the same in all pharmacies - I bought the same 2 antibiotics from 2 different pharmacies within a mile of each other within say 5 days of each other and there was a difference of about 15% (Nothing else was bought at the type of dispense).

I believe pharmacies are cartels and I would welcome disclosure and regulation. BTW pharmacies also improved their lot when Boots moved in.


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## rainyday (16 May 2004)

*Re: ah come on*



> Imagine going into a SPAR and having to ask them how much something is going to be beforehand - they have many many products OR come to think of it, an Insurance Company OR a doctor's surgery OR a Bank OR a restaurant OR a pub OR a hotel OR a travel agent OR an online store OR a bookshop. The list is endless.


The list of irrelevant comparisons is endless. Perscription products in pharmacies are not available over the counter for obvious reasons. You have to have a perscription to get the product. It makes no sense to insist on having a visible price list for every possible drug (and the wholesalers have tens of thousands of products available on their product lines). Would you expect your bookshop to have a self-service price list for every possible book that they can order from a bookseller for you? Would you expect the travel agent to have a visible price list for every hotel in the world, and every airline in the world and every B&B in the world etc etc etc. It is just pointless.


> - Why should someone have to do that ?


Simple - because it's not practical to go the other way. Your solution would place a huge bureaucratic workload on pharmacy staff with negligible benefit. How many customers would bother to wade through vast swathes of pricing information to find their own perscription (and get the strength & unit size right)? It is just not going to work.

Just ask - a simple and cost-effective solution.


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## keyhole11 (17 May 2004)

*Ask for a generic!*

When buying expensive perscription medicines, you should always ask if they have a generic version.
For example, if you are looking for a months perscription of Losec, it will cost ~70 euros for a box of 28.
However, if you get the generic Losamel, it costs ~45 euros for a box of 30.
and it's made in Clonmel, so you are buying irish!
It is the exact same stuff.
They have to dispense the generic if you ask for it, even if the branded drug is names on the scrip. They will even tell you what the generics are if you ask.


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## Dr Benton (18 May 2004)

*Re: Pharmacy prices*

If price is important to you it is essential to shop or phone around. Prices in chemists vary depending on their location, whether they provide a late night or 24 hour service and what additional services or facilities they provide. Also depending on what the market will bear, so if consumers are not price conscious they will end up paying higher prices.

One reason the same drug can cost different amounts for different quantities is the pack size sold by the manufacturer. Some tablets are usually prescribed for a specific period of time (5 days, a week, 30 days, whatever). If for some reason you are prescribed a regime that does not correspond with the standard pack size it may cost you more. For example if the pack size is 5 days and you need 6 days, you may end up paying almost as much as someone who needs 10 days because the chemist may not sell the remainder of the second pack and may charge you accordingly. I don't know if this explains the anomaly zag identified.

If you are worried about the cost of drugs be certain to tell the doctor who is prescribing for you. There may be a lower cost drug available for your condition. In a similar way to cars you can have a Fiesta or a Merc- both will get you from A to B and while the Merc might be nice, maybe all you really need is a Fiesta. Be honest with the doctor prescribing for you. Most people are willing to pay for an expensive drug if their doctor feels this is essential for them. Similarly, most doctors will respond sensitively if they know money is tight and will try to prescribe something less expensive when it is likely to give a satisfactory result.

Alternatively, your doctor may be able to prescribe a generic variant. Pharmacists are not allowed to substitute a generic drug unless the doctor prescribes generically. This means using the chemical name for the drug instead of the name of one of the brands of drug sold. Some types of drug treatments require that you always use the same brand, so you should not switch to a generic drug without making your doctor aware that you plan to do this. For the majority of patients generic drugs are a good alternative. You should be aware, however, that generic drugs are only available after the patent on a new drug has run out, so you will not get the most modern drugs available generically.


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## Henderson (18 May 2004)

*Re: Pharmacy prices*

Quote: "Look at the price of a visit to Gp in other countries"

It's free to go to my gp!


I live in Co. Down...


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## gerry (18 May 2004)

*prices*

I only noticed the difference in prices when my nearest pharmacy did not have the drug prescribed by my gp and I went elsewhere and found out that they were cheaper than I had been used to paying.


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## tell me this and tell me no more (24 May 2004)

*Re: pharmacist*

Can I give a mention to Hamiliton Long chemists by O'Connell Bridge in Dublin? 

They will not charge you over the 78 euro limit if you have already reached it - they will hand over the prescription, without charge, if you have exceeded this monthly limit (even including previous purchases from other chemists). They will do the parerwork and claim the refund later.

Now that's a truly excellent service that deserves a mention.


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## rainyday (24 May 2004)

*Re: pharmacist*



> They will not charge you over the 78 euro limit if you have already reached it - they will hand over the prescription, without charge, if you have exceeded this monthly limit (even including previous purchases from other chemists). They will do the parerwork and claim the refund later.


Don't all pharmacists do this, provided you have your DPS card?


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## rainyday (11 Sep 2004)

*Re: pharmacist*

My usual UK-based online supplier for contact lens solutions seems to be offline at the moment, so I was forced to go to an Irish pharmacy. The cost was over twice what I've been paying for the same solution online (after taking currency charges into account).


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## onekeano (5 Jan 2005)

*On line pharmacies*

Have tried a couple of online US pharmacies where there is undoubtedly great value and in one particular case a medication that I cannot get here (under prescription). However everytime I go to place an order I find they don't ship to Ireland.

Has anyone had any luck with online pharmacies - if anyone has a web address that'd be great. I am particularly interested in Minocin or it's generic equivilant Minocycline.

Thanks
Roy


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## rainyday (5 Jan 2005)

*Re: On line pharmacies*

How do you know that you're getting the right quality/strength from an unregulated online pharmacy?


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## onekeano (5 Jan 2005)

*Re: On line pharmacies*

The sites i was looking at require a full prescription from our doctor. Do you have any reason to feel that such online retailers provide substandard product. From what I have been reading on the web such providers of generic products are required to go through the same PDA licencing requirements.

Roy


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## cobalt (5 Jan 2005)

*mail order*

The supply of medicinal products by mail order is currently illegal in Ireland.


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## onekeano (5 Jan 2005)

*Re: mail order*

To be honest I don't really care if it's illegal, sounds like condoms being illegal or pornography a number of years ago. The medication in question whihc has been prescribed for one of my kids I am informed by my local pharmacist "not available" becuase of supply chain problems. In fact my pharmacist tells me this is like a 3rd world country because the supply of quite a lot of fairly basic medicines is so poor.

Beside it seems to me that a lot of Irish people use mail order and I haven't seen any of our top athletes hauled off by the boys in blue.

Roy


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## cobalt (6 Jan 2005)

*mail order*

It's not the purchaser that's committing the crime - it's the _supply_ that's illegal and the _supplier_ who could be prosecuted. Hence the reluctance of companies to supply to Ireland. You need to find a supplier who's not aware of the legislation (or doesn't care, or thinks the risk of prosecution is slight).
This law is likely to change in the future.


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## rainyday (6 Jan 2005)

*Re: On line pharmacies*



> Do you have any reason to feel that such online retailers provide substandard product.


No specific reason, though perhaps I've been influenced by the regular supply of emails from dodgy characters offering V1AGRA etc.


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## onekeano (6 Jan 2005)

*Re: On line pharmacies*

Ah I see, maybe you should just avoid some of those more lively sites. What I was looking for was far more conventional stuff........

Roy


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