# Non payment of PAYE + PRSI



## Swatch (25 Apr 2006)

To make a long story short, I recently discovered that my employer had not registered me as an employee, and therefore had not been paying any tax or PRSI on my behalf. I know it's hard to believe, and I should've have been aware of it, but as it is a reputable company, I believed everything was "above board".

  I've been to the tax office and contacted the Social Welfare about this, but nothing is being done! I informed my employer of the situation and they "offered" to back date a couple of months, but I said they had to pay EVERYTHING that was owed, they agreed to this, and said I could check with the tax office to see if it had been paid.

 I've rang the tax office and they won't give me any information!! Is it just me, or is this an absolutely ridiculous situation! My employer has broken the law, and seems to be able to do what ever they like, and no one, ie. Revenue seems to care about it! I just don't know what to do, I can't get answers from anyone! Surely I'm entitled to access my own personal information, especially when my employer has blatantly broken the law!!

   The way I see it it seems employers can just do whatever they like, and there are no penalties that they have to worry about!  As I've said I've contacted the tax office and also the P35 section in the tax office. Is there any way I can check to see if my employer has backdated everything owed?


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## ubiquitous (25 Apr 2006)

Your employer's tax affairs are confidential between themselves and the Revenue and the Revenue have a legal obligation to uphold this confidentiality.


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## Swatch (25 Apr 2006)

I understand that there needs to be confidentiality, but at the same time, I don't want to find out a few years down the line that my "trustworthy" employer never back dated the tax/PRSI on my behalf, and that I missed out on years of PRSI contributions simply because I couln't check my records. If my employer didn't register me in the first place, how am I supposed to believe that they've backdated my tax/PRSI? They must also be aware of the fact that the tax office can't give me the information.


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## asdfg (25 Apr 2006)

Did you get a P60 at the end of each tax year that you worked 

Try contacting the Dept of Social and Family Affairs  See here

Anything here Note message in bold 





> *You have the right by law to examine and get a statement of your PRSI record held by your employer*


 
Failing this contact your local policitian


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## z107 (25 Apr 2006)

As an employee its a legal requirement that you should get payslips outlining how much tax and prsi you're paying.

You should also get a written statement of the terms of employment, within two months of commencing employment.

You could complain to a Rights Commissioner of the Labour Relations Commission Tel: 01 660 9662

www.payback.ie


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## Swatch (26 Apr 2006)

Thanks for the replys. No, I received no P60s, I 've been asking for my employer to give them to me and they keep putting it on the long finger, I can't keep asking them every week, plus I shouldn't have to! I just can't understand how they are able to get away with this, despite the fact that I contacted the tax office. I guess I'm just going to have to take it further.


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## deem (26 Apr 2006)

Have you tried to ring the tax office paye section, for employees and asking them whats on your record. you are entitled to this information.


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## Swatch (26 Apr 2006)

Yes I've rang the PAYE section alright, but they just said "sorry we can't give you that information", I told them the situation and that I needed to know if my employer made the returns, so they suggested ringing the P35 section, which I did, and the response I got there was "why are you ringing here, I can't give you any information regarding youre employer, the PAYE section shouldn't have told you to ring here!". At this stage I'm just so frustrated...


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## asdfg (26 Apr 2006)

> No, I received no P60s


Have you mentioned this to the tax office. There is a legal requirement for the employer to issue P60's to all employees by 15th February following the year end.

Are there any other employees? Are they in the same boat as you? 
Are you sure that you are an employee and not a contractor. 
What type of business are you/employer in?  
As you say this can't continue indefinetly.  
You should also be able to ask if the employer has made his 10.75% PRSI  contributions if you are class A on your behalf (Most employees). Contact Dept of Social & Family Affairs. If they refuse which I doubt tell them that you are requesting the info under the freedom of information Act


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## ajapale (26 Apr 2006)

What do your payslips say?

aj


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## Swatch (26 Apr 2006)

"Have you mentioned this to the tax office." Yea, that's what I don't understand - ie. I've told the tax office that the employer hasn't given me any P60's - they have it on record themselves that my employer has paid no tax/PRSI! And as you say, it's supposed to be a "legal requirement"! 
   I work for a small company, - I contacted previous employees regarding this, and they had some issues as well, but not to this extent. At the moment I'm the only one with this issue and I'm the longest working here!    

I'm an employee alright rather than a contractor, as I get paid a weekly wage and my hours are always the same etc. I contacted the Social Welfare records section and they have no record of contributions since I've been here, but they don't seem to want to take it further unless I get an inspector involved. They said I could check back in a few weeks to see if anything has gone through, but they won't be able to tell me about 2005 contributions until near the end of the year. So there seems there is no definitive answer as to whether all contibutions have been made + are being made.
None of us get payslips, even though again, I have asked for them. No one has received a payslip since I've been here, it's just a really badly run business obviously.
Needless to say I don't want to work for a company who runs a business like this and treats their employees in this way, but I feel I need to sort this out before I hand in my notice as I don't want it dragging on.


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## z107 (26 Apr 2006)

If none of you get payslips, complain to a Rights Commissioner of the Labour Relations Commission Tel: 01 660 9662.


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## Qawra (26 Apr 2006)

My friend has just found herself in the same situation. As she is new to this country she didn't understand the law but now she worries that if she tell sthe Revenue that they might start to look to her for back tax. Can you please advise?

Also the biggest problem is that while her employer doesn't pay her PRSI then she won't get all her medical and social entitlements as he has to be working a certain time (i.e. paying PRSI) before she can get these.


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## asdfg (26 Apr 2006)

Is she getting a pay slip, if not complain to a Rights Commissioner of the Labour Relations Commission Tel: 01 660 9662.
The payslip should show the PRSI class she is on and how much is deducted and how much the employer is paying. 
Contact welfare although they may not be able to provide much info until early next year. Could ask if the employer is making PRSI returns regularly and up to date.
Failing this contact the minister directly or your local politican, there are 3 to 5 in each constituancy.
Contact a trade union. AFAIK you don't have to be a member. They may be able to ask the relevant question


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## Joe1234 (26 Apr 2006)

Swatch said:
			
		

> Yes I've rang the PAYE section alright, but they just said "sorry we can't give you that information"



Ring back the paye section and demand to be told this information.  The original person you spoke to just didn't seem to want to help.  There are (a few) helpful people in revenue, and hopefully you will get the rignt one next time.


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## askalot (26 Apr 2006)

ubiquitous said:
			
		

> Your employer's tax affairs are confidential between themselves and the Revenue and the Revenue have a legal obligation to uphold this confidentiality.



But a good part of the PRSI contributions come from the employee's pocket!

So ask revenue for your total PRSI contributions for the year. I had a friend who was caught out like this ten years ago but they only found out when the company went bust and they were left with reduced welfare payments because of it. Of course nothing happened to the employer!

This is theft.


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## ubiquitous (27 Apr 2006)

askalot said:
			
		

> But a good part of the PRSI contributions come from the employee's pocket!



Do bear in mind that I am merely stating Revenue policy as mentioned above, not defending it. There is a genuine Catch 22 here as Revenue will have no means (initially at least) or measuring the employee's PAYE or PRSI contributions until and unless the employer makes a return of the details of same on their P35. If the employer defaults on this obligation, this is legally a matter between Revenue and the employer and technically no third party (even an affected employee) has a right to know the detail of any default or its consequences,


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## asdfg (27 Apr 2006)

You could ask revenue and welfare the following:

Is your employer is making regular monthly (maybe quarterly now) returns P30. When was the last one made.
When was the last P35 returned legal requirement to do this by 15 February following year end. Due to the large number to be processed the last one 2005 may not be updated. Ask are you on it and how what are the figures. As far as I recall your Gross Pay, Tax Paid, PRSI employee and Total PRSI is returned.
If you do not get a reasonable answer ask to speak to his/her supervisor

You could also send in an email requesting the info.


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## Swatch (27 Apr 2006)

Qawra said:
			
		

> My friend has just found herself in the same situation. As she is new to this country she didn't understand the law but now she worries that if she tell sthe Revenue that they might start to look to her for back tax. Can you please advise?
> 
> Also the biggest problem is that while her employer doesn't pay her PRSI then she won't get all her medical and social entitlements as he has to be working a certain time (i.e. paying PRSI) before she can get these.



The first thing I did, and would recommend doing is to contact the Revenue to check and see if she is registered with them. Does she have a PPS number? (I'm not sure what the situation is  being new to the country) If she's not registered with them with her current employer it means the employer is definitely not paying any tax/PRSI. She's shouldn't be liable it's the employers responsibility to register their employees etc. that's my understanding anyway. She should definitely contact the Revenue though and explain the situation.


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## Ham Slicer (27 Apr 2006)

First of all the P30 details are irrelavant as it does not break down contributions per employee.

Swatch, how long have you been working for your employer?


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## Swatch (27 Apr 2006)

I just rang the Revenue again, and she said there's been no returns made by my employer for me yet, and that it will take months before they get that information! If this is true, then this must mean that there will be no PRSI contributions paid for me until then either, as the info has to go through the Revenue first! This is a complete joke!! 

How can employers not register an emloyee, not pay tax or PRSI, and the Revenue won't do anything about it! What do I have to do to explain to them that my employer is"BREAKING THE LAW" and seems to be able to do whatever they like! I am so angry!


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## Swatch (27 Apr 2006)

Ham Slicer said:
			
		

> First of all the P30 details are irrelavant as it does not break down contributions per employee.
> 
> Swatch, how long have you been working for your employer?



I've been with them over 2 and a half years.


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## asdfg (27 Apr 2006)

> First of all the P30 details are irrelavant as it does not break down contributions per employee.


 
I mentioned the P30 as this could give an indication as to whether the employer was making returns to revenue. If they were then hopefully you are included but if no returns are being made then you know for definate that no PRSI ot PAYE has been paid on your behalf.
Sorry if I did not make this clear


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## Swatch (27 Apr 2006)

asdfg said:
			
		

> If they were then hopefully you are included but if no returns are being made then you know for definate that no PRSI ot PAYE has been paid on your behalf.



Well the thing is, is that I do know for definite that no PAYE/PRSI was paid on my behalf since I've been here. I found this out by contacting the Revenue and Social Welfare. My employer said they've included me in the returns they sent in a few weeks ago. 
But my problem is, is that I've no way of checking to make sure they backdated everything. 
I don't understand how if the Revenue were made aware of the fact that an employer didn't pay PAYE/PRSI on an employees behalf, why they haven't requested them to do so!


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## asdfg (27 Apr 2006)

Swatch 

I understand your frustration. 

As stated in earlier posts contact/email all you local TD's as well as Brian Cowen, Seamus Brennan, Bertie Ahern. They make the laws. Ask them to investigate the matter. If you don't hear from them within a few weeks sent a reminder and send a reminder at least every fortnight.
Don't give up. You are fighting for your future here Pension, Disability etc plus many many more See here


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## Swatch (27 Apr 2006)

I still don't understand how an employer can decide to do whatever they want despite the law! 
ie. NOT register an employee, NOT pay PAYE/PRSI on their behalf, NOT make returns by February 15th, NOT give P60's at the end of the year - 
and when all this information is given to the Revenue, they don't do anything about it either! What exactly to they have to do before the Revenue does do something, or is it because there isn't millions of euros involved? I mean if I were to be caught driving without motor tax, what would happen, "oh that's grand, pay it whenever you get a chance".....I don't think so.
     Is there a complaint board/ombudsman of some sort for the Revenue?


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## asdfg (27 Apr 2006)

Anything [broken link removed] for revenue and here for welfare

You can always appeal directly to the ombudsmans office. See his [broken link removed] of 2004 for the type of complaints dealt with


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## ubiquitous (28 Apr 2006)

Swatch said:
			
		

> I still don't understand how an employer can decide to do whatever they want despite the law!
> ie. NOT register an employee, NOT pay PAYE/PRSI on their behalf, NOT make returns by February 15th, NOT give P60's at the end of the year -
> and when all this information is given to the Revenue, they don't do anything about it either! What exactly to they have to do before the Revenue does do something, or is it because there isn't millions of euros involved?



I think you're confusing the Revenue's inability to give you concrete information on your employer's tax affairs (on the basis of confidentiality) with your perception that they are not interested in following him for payment of the tax amounts involved and filing of the required employer returns. 

Contrary to what you fear, the Revenue (and Welfare) do take cases of this nature extremely seriously and have swingeing powers at their disposal to enforce interest, penalties etc on top of the original tax amounts owed, and in cases of deliberate evasion they are not afraid to initiate prosecution proceedings against the offenders. 

The point is that if the Revenue were to divulge confidential information about your employer, to yourself and third parties, this would be likely to damage their prospects of getting a successful prosecution against your employer. It might also cast a serious doubt over their ability to enforce collection of the monies owed (eg by obtaining a court judgement against your employer) were your employer to challenge them in court on the basis of unfair procedures etc.


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## Swatch (28 Apr 2006)

Ok, I get what you're saying about confidentiality - it's just that when I can't get a straight answer from anybody, it's just very frustrating! Can you understand the situation I'm in though, that my "reliable" employer broke the law and there's no one telling me - "it's ok it will be sorted out". 

I've rang the Revenue on different occasions and have gotten various different explanations about my situation which doesn't help either, and doesn't exactly do anything for my faith in them. For example, yesterday I was told maybe I just don't have to pay tax, that I was exempt! Which I know for a fact that's not true!
    If someone was able to say to me that your situation is being/will be dealt with, that would be fine, but I'm not being told anything, that's the problem, I just have to wait. That's why it's so frustrating.


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## tatiana (19 Jun 2009)

hi, 
My employer was paying me 8e/h. Now the buissnes isnt so good so he want cut one hour per day. finaly it would be 7h per day. i didnt agree so i sad i want qiut. And now i find out that he didnt pay any of my taxes.
I was working for him since 08/2008 but his first company its closed now since 2008 dec. Im working now for him in his new company. but they reg it in january 2009, thay got to paye system in apirl. he told me he can pay back this 3 months. Should i agree?? or go somewhere with it? i dont have any payslips, p45 even work agreement. I didnt care much. can some one tell me what do do? I know that they hire somebody esle and paying all taxes, only i was to stupid to dont look into that matter. does anyone know what shoul i do? 
tatiana


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## Ants09 (19 Jun 2009)

Phone up or walk into your local tax office and ask for a balancing statement for each tax period that you were employed for with your employer and the revenue will sent them out to you and then you can find out from that if you were on the books or not and if so then all happy and if not then phone up the revenue 
*Dublin Special Compliance District*

Contact details for the Dublin Special Compliance DistrictAddressTelephonee-mail85/93, Lower Mount Street, Dublin 2.01 6474000dubscd@revenue.ie


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