# court summons - stressed out.



## kildarebuild (15 Nov 2006)

Was driving up to Newlands Cross on the N7 one morning to pick someone up. I drove onto the slip road before the junction. Saw my passenger was not there, so i tried to get back into traffic with no success, so decided to go around an island back onto the dual carriageway. Garda caught me doing this action. 

Now the Garda landed me with overtaking on the left and driving on the hard shoulder. No fine came or anything. NOTHING. Just a court summons. 

Called solictor and she says i am likely to get 8 penalty points! 3 for one and 5 for the other. 

Overtaking cars on the left happened on the slip road... since when was this illegal?? Or did i just bump into a Garda on a very bad day? The Garda can argue i was driving on the hard shoulder. Which i was not. His word against mine.

To top matters off. The judge is supposed to be a real bastard.  

Any advice is greatly appreciated.


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## SteelBlue05 (15 Nov 2006)

well if you used the slip road and didnt cross over any continuous white/yellow lines (did you when you went around the traffic island?) then I dont see what you did wrong...


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## ubiquitous (15 Nov 2006)

How far is your solicitor willing to support you on this? It may be worth your while finding out which solicitors in your area are best in handling motor offence cases - in my neck of the woods there is a perception that certain firms are better than the average in representing drunk driving suspects and other serious motoring cases (btw I'm not for a minute suggesting any sort of analogy here) so it might be worth studying the form. After that, if I were in your shoes, I would be anxious to have the chosen solicitor look at all angles to the case, to represent me vigorously in court, and I would not baulk at using photos of the location or other evidence to back up my case.

Best of luck with it.


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## kildarebuild (15 Nov 2006)

I have to check the traffic island out... thinking of taking photos of it all. To prove that he could not possibly see me driving on the hard shoulder (even though i was not) which is out of sight from where he was standing. The hard shoulder was around the corner. This garda was also very young. He looked like he was having his first day on traffic duty. 

Also i was thinking of getting the girl i was supposed to pick up, she used to work with me. Get her to write up a letter saying yes i was picking her up that week because she had problems with her car. Would this do any good? Also how come no fine was sent out??


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## Meathman99 (15 Nov 2006)

Might be worth your while (And your 8 points) to visit the local council and get any available plans for the road at that location to support photos.   An independent source of info as apposed to you presenting a photo.  You will be required to notify insurnce company so your premium is likely to increase.


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## Brendan Burgess (15 Nov 2006)

Kildarebuild

I don't fully grasp what you were trying to do but it sounds very dangerous. If  you went into a slip road, is there not a continuous white line and hatched lines maybe, which you would have to cross to get back out. You are not supposed to come out of a slip road back into traffic, I would have thought. 

Where is the island? Is that the one which means that you have now gone onto the turnoff? Did you leave the road and drive up and over a barrier? 

Brendan


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## rmelly (16 Nov 2006)

Where you committed multiple offences, I thought you only got the points of the offence with the highest points, rather than points from all of the offences - in which case this would be 5 points not 8?


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## kildarebuild (16 Nov 2006)

I went around the island to get back onto traffic, looking around the local islands they all have the continuous line , like a triangle jutting out of the island. Is it really possible that i can only be charged with the maximum points of 5 for the worst offense of my 2 offenses?? The solicitor says yes im being charged with mutiple offences.


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## demoivre (16 Nov 2006)

kildarebuild said:


> Is it really possible that i can only be charged with the maximum points of 5 for the worst offense of my 2 offenses?? The solicitor says yes im being charged with mutiple offences.



According to the National Safety Councils own  FAQs yes !


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## Aesop (16 Nov 2006)

Don't see how you can blame the Garda mood? What you did was an illegal manoveur in any man's language. Do you have pts on your licence already? According to the website http://www.penaltypoints.ie/faq.php you can only be issued points to one offense (the highest one).


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## Brendan Burgess (16 Nov 2006)

I still don't understand this talk of islands, but I don't frequent motorways often enough to understand it.

Maybe it is the practice to charge you with multiple offences, but the judge will decide which is the most appropriate.

Brendan


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## RainyDay (17 Nov 2006)

I think it's great to see the Gardai clamping down on this sort of stuff.


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## Billo (17 Nov 2006)

Agreee with Rainyday. 
Most drivers get away with this kind of (probably dangerous) manouver, but it is no harm to see the odd one caught.
Rgds
Billo


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## mmclo (17 Nov 2006)

In most criminal matters the sentence for the most serious crime is the only one

However PENALTY POINTS ARE NOT A SENTENCE BUT AN ADMINISTRATIVE MATTER

They are awarded by the Department of Transport and there is no appeals mechanism which I personally believe to be unconstitutional 

I think you have to go and argue your case as best you can, be polite but do not be intimidated by the judge he must give you a fair hearing or its off to the circuit ct. for an appeal

I share the dismay about not getting a fixed penalty notice and I tried to argue this point in a previous instance but with no success

Somebody needs to test the constitutionality of the penalty points system being administered on quasi judicial way by the Department with no appeals or natural justice...maybe this is the case??

NB This should not be construed as legal advice


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## panathon (18 Nov 2006)

Is it on camera? If not go anway you want to go...


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## RainyDay (18 Nov 2006)

panathon said:


> Is it on camera? If not go anway you want to go...



Unless of course, there is somebody like me behind you, with the Garda Traffic Watch line on speed dial and a willingness to give a statement and/or go to court.


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## kildarebuild (20 Nov 2006)

No camera - nothing. Garda was about 35 yards away hiding behind a tree. I know what i did was wrong. And agree it was a careless move to make. But in the end of the day, all the Garda had to do was send out a letter penalising me not drag me into court. I just feel victimised for a small offence. Whereas their are cowboys at every turn on our roads getting away with a lot more serious offences. I have been a driver for 10 years. No insurance claims, no accidents. Always been a considerate driver. I learnt my lesson already and cannot wait for it to be over so i can get on with my life.


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## ClubMan (20 Nov 2006)

kildarebuild said:


> I just feel victimised for a small offence. Whereas their are cowboys at every turn on our roads getting away with a lot more serious offences.


What "small" offences do you think that the authorities should turn a blind eye to and where do you draw the line (other than beyond your specific offence here obviously)?


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## kildarebuild (20 Nov 2006)

ClubMan said:


> What "small" offences do you think that the authorities should turn a blind eye to and where do you draw the line (other than beyond your specific offence here obviously)?



Small offences such as crossing the continous line or speeding. Should get a fixed charge and be posted. 

Whereas drink driving are more serious and should be court summons, or a repeated offence like speeding 3 times.


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## Oilean Beag (21 Nov 2006)

Continuous white lines prevent head on collisions where it is not safe to overtake. 


Similarly , speeding retrictions are in place for a purpose.


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