# Letting property, the PRTB & BER Cert. Is BER cert compulsory / tax deductable?.



## RMCF (6 Feb 2011)

As someone close to leasing a property, I was just reading through the PRTB website re: registration, and I noticed it said that a BER certificate was required.
https://www.prtb.ie/faq.aspx#Q20


My tenant has not asked for one, and I was wondering if the PRTB will force me to get one once I'm registered?

If so, I assume this will be tax deductible?


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## JoeRoberts (6 Feb 2011)

No, they don't force you.
I would ignore it, your PRTB application will go through without it. Another useless regulation.


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## RMCF (6 Feb 2011)

Thanks Joe. One less cost to worry about.


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## barry251 (6 Feb 2011)

*Who Needs BER Certificates ? *
From January 1st 2009 anybody Selling or letting property is required by law to have a BER cert and there is no obligation to make any recommended improvements from the advisory report. Exemptions apply to listed buildings of outstanding architectural or historical importance
 

*When is a building energy rating cert legally required ? *
A BER cert is required by law, if planning permission was applied after the following dates: 
1st January 2007. BER cert is required for new dwellings for which planning permission was applied for on or after this date, whether being constructed, offered for sale or for rent. Transitional BER exemptions will apply to new dwellings for which planning permission is applied on or before 31 December 2006, which is substantially completed by 30 June 2008. 
1st July 2008. BER cert is required for new buildings, other than dwellings, for which planning permission was applied for on or after this date. 1st January 2009 BER cert is required for anybody Selling or letting property is required by law to have a BER cert.

*What are the legal implications for non-compliance ? *
There is a maximum fine of up to €5,000 or a term of imprisonment not exceeding 3 months, or both, for not getting a BER when required, for not complying with authorised officers to enter, inspect buildings etc.

*Why should I get a BER Cert and what are the benefits **? *
1. Add value to your home and make it more sought-after when selling or renting. 
2. Improve and lower your energy heating costs - savings on energy and fuel bills.
3. Lower CO2 emissions.


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## RMCF (6 Feb 2011)

barry251 said:


> *What are the legal implications for non-compliance ? *
> There is a maximum fine of up to €5,000 or a term of imprisonment not exceeding 3 months, or both



Worried again !!!


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## oldnick (6 Feb 2011)

If you're that worried get one , though i tend to agree with joeroberts.

the cost should be tax deductible -as is PRTB,  and in my opinion the NPPR fee (though this last point is disputed).

Google BER certs/energy efficiency certs and you'll see websites offering apt BERs from 100 euros - which seems suspiciously low but even at twice that amount  it may be worth it to avoid your anxiety.


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## Bronte (7 Feb 2011)

I don't have BER certs and I've never been asked for them.  A pointless piece of paper that is just a money making racket.

I did ask the PRTB what business it was of theirs to be asking on their website if people have one or not.  You just tick the box on the website to say you don't have one when you are registering your tenancy.


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## oldnick (7 Feb 2011)

I confess that the last post made me realise the obvious fact that on new tenancies (since BER rules came in)  registered with PRTB it's possible that PRTB will inform those authorities responsible for enforcing BER regulations. 

Certainly there is cross-reference between PRTB and Revenue as there is with NPPR and Revenue. I agree it's a pointless piece of paper and a money making racket. But  I now wonder whether when registering a new tenancy with PRTB  it may be worth getting that damn BER. 
 I can imagine some sort of cross-reference crack-down in order to grab more money from us.


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## AlbacoreA (7 Feb 2011)

While I'm not against it the Ber. I don't see how it can access the Ber rating of a house when they don't look in the walls or under the floor at the insulation there. Likewise some modern houses are over ventilated, and theres drafts in the wall spaces etc. I don't think they check that either. Its an indication, but imperfect. 

Theres very little specifics in the requirments for heating a rented house. Without that you could leave a bar heater in every room and meet the regulations. 

I've yet to hear of someone fined for lack of a Ber Cert. But if it only costs €100 for one, it might save some hassle later on. Does anyone check the Ber Certs are correct after they are done?


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## picassoman (2 Mar 2011)

Hi,
I understand the requirement is to have a BER for a rentasl property from Jan 2009 onwards. 

Does this apply even if your tenants have been in place prior to 2009 ? or only when you are looking for new tenants ?

-pm


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## TLC (3 Mar 2011)

According to the seai website a BER cert is valid for 10 years so it could be worth getting anyway.  But I do agree, it does seem to be a bit of a raquet


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## ajapale (6 Mar 2011)

barry251 said:


> *Who Needs BER Certificates ? *
> From January 1st 2009 *anybody Selling or letting property is required by law to have a BER cert* and there is no obligation to make any recommended improvements from the advisory report.



Regardless of whether you like it or not, or whether you percieve it to be a racket or not, it would appear to be the law of the land.


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## AlbacoreA (6 Mar 2011)

Probably enforced just as little as all the rest too.


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## Manuel (25 Jul 2011)

Hi, maybe someone can help with this. I'm a landlord:

Grant for BER seems to be 80 Euro from what I see on SEAI website.
Quotes I've received for the assessment so far range from 140 - 200 Euro.

So should I apply for the cash grant, and then claim the remainder as an expense against my rental income?

Thanks.
/M.

Edit: actually it looks more complicated. Apparently you can only apply for the BER cash grant once per house. And yet, if you apply for a HES Grant for, say, attic insulation or solar heating, a BER assessment AFTER the work is done is mandatory. So the most economical approach for the landlord then would seem to be one of:
i) Get an assessment for as close to 80 Euro as possible and apply for the cash grant
   Then, if you do subsequently apply for a HES Grant for improvement work, then claim the 2nd BER assessment cost as an allowable expense (dodgy?)
ii) Claim all of the first assessment as an allowable expense, and if you do subsequently apply for a HES Grant for improvement work, get the 80 Euro cash
   grant then (probably more correct)

If it's all above board, then option i) seems the better approach.

Anyone?


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## L0llip0p (25 Jul 2011)

*
Cash Grants available 

**Attic Insulation *€200*
Wall Insulation - Cavity *€320*
Wall Insulation - External* €4,000*
Wall Insulation - Internal Dry Lining* €2,000*
Heating System**High Efficiency Oil / Gas Boiler with Controls upgrade. *€560
*Heating Controls Upgrade only* €400*
Solar Heating* €800*
Building Energy Rating (BER) *€80**_

*Cash Grants are set value unless expenditure is below the set value, in which case the actual expenditure will be reimbursed._
_**A *Building Energy Rating (BER)*  is an integral part of all grant applications under the HES scheme,  whereby homeowners must undertake a BER on their home after grant aided  works have been completed. A homeowner is entitled to BER funding of €80  once per home. This funding will be applied to your grant application  automatically provided you have never applied previously for BER  funding. You will be informed during the online grant application  process if BER funding is available for your home or as part of your  Letter of Grant Offer if you have applied through the post._
_Please  note the minimum grant amount for the first application must be €400. A  BER grant, where applicable, does not count towards the €400 minimum._
_In  the instance where a Contractor is completing works within his own home  then only the cost of materials will be deemed qualifying expenditure._
_Grants  are claimed after the measures are completed and the contractor has  been paid by or entered a financing agreement with the homeowner._




Looks like you can't just apply for standlone BER grant.

So in order to get it, you'd have to get eg attic+cavity+ber
or one of the others +ber


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## Manuel (25 Jul 2011)

That's not how I read it L0llip0p.

You can't get the HES Grant without a subsequent BER assessment, but you can get a BER assessment on its own, and a cash grant for same (once), without applying for a HES Grant.

So I'm just wondering, if leaving one's options open for a future HES Grant application, should one get an initial BER assessment via the grant or pay for it and claim it all back as an allowable expense?

It seems to me that it should only be an allowable expense if you're getting it to comply with the law.

If you're getting a second assessment after work done, then that's probably not an allowable expense. So it seems to make sense to save the grant for a possible second assessment.


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## L0llip0p (25 Jul 2011)

Simple answer, yes BER is deductible.

Interesting how you read it differently. From all my web searching I was sure that the €80 grant for BER was only available where you apply for the HES grant. If you check any of the insulator providers websites, they all seem to say the same thing. (i.e. €80 available under HES scheme). But I could be wrong.

example http://www.bercertificate.ie/faq.asp?id=11#q10 see question regarding grant availability. "SEAI has funding available to anyone looking to upgrade there dwelling." 

The idea is that you spend some bob on upgrading the efficiency of house (attic+cavity) and with that you get the BER discounted because it is mandatory anyway.

I'm getting attic+cavity+ber done on my let property. €1050 for 3bed semi with €200+€320+€80= €600 grant =>cost of €450. Hopefully its worth it.

I'd certainly expect that this €450 is tax deductible too.


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## Mrs Vimes (26 Jul 2011)

L0llip0p said:


> I'd certainly expect that this €450 is tax deductible too.



I would assume it is deductible against the CGT when you come to sell the house as it is an improvement to the house and therefore not deductible against rental income


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## L0llip0p (26 Jul 2011)

Is it not a capital allowance?

I would have justified as necessary when the house is freezing throughout the winter for tenants.

It would be no different to replacing a boiler system that had packed up resulting in a uninhabitable house for winter. Its my responsibility to ensure the house has adequate heating for tenants.


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## Mrs Vimes (28 Jul 2011)

L0llip0p said:


> It would be no different to replacing a boiler system that had packed up resulting in a uninhabitable house for winter. Its my responsibility to ensure the house has adequate heating for tenants.



From IT70:
*What expenses cannot be claimed for?*

Capital expenditure incurred on additions, alterations or improvements  to the premises unless allowable under an Incentive scheme


You are not talking about replacing a broken boiler, you are talking about improving the fabric of the building.

It is possible that there is an incentive scheme for this type of improvement (I think it would be a good idea if there was) but I couldn't find one on Revenue's website.

Sybil


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## Manuel (28 Jul 2011)

I'm at risk of going a little off topic here, but I resurrected the thread about BER because I'm trying to figure out what exactly I need to spend between lettings to improve my chances of getting a new tenant.

Could I ask which of these costs (between lettings) are tax deductible please:

BER assesment : - yes
Plumbing repairs : - yes
Electrical repairs : - yes
Chimney Sweep : - yes/no
Painter : - yes/no
Lawn repairs : - yes/no
Power washing paths : - yes/no
Cleaning out gutters : - yes/no
Sanding & varnishing worn wooden floors : - yes/no 

Thanks a million,
/M.


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## Mrs Vimes (28 Jul 2011)

Hi Manuel,

I would consider all of the expenses you have listed above to be repairs and maintenance and would deduct them accordingly. You'll probably need to service the boiler as well.

Sybil


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## L0llip0p (28 Jul 2011)

Revenue aren't exactly black on white on that
But this work is carried out as part of grant aided government incentive scheme 

The "better energy home" scheme.

Looking at the landlord forums and responses to similar queries I found the answer to be positive on this.

http://www.irishlandlord.com/forum/showthread.php?t=1673 (Sorry, I realise its a redirect to another forum)

I'm double-check with accountant but I'm pretty sure the net figure will be down as tax deductable.


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## L0llip0p (28 Jul 2011)

"You'll probably need to service the boiler as well."??

Steady on Mrs Vimes 

Manuel didn't ask what *should* he have done to his property. What a bossy boots!!!

Agree with Mrs Vimes, thats all maintenance.


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## Mrs Vimes (28 Jul 2011)

I'm very surprised at that poster's response, I would have thought it a clear improvement. Possibly best to check with Revenue or a professional tax adviser rather than relying on conflicting answers on internet fora.

I'd be interested to hear the "official" response when you get one.

Sybil

Crossed with you Lollipop! Yes, I've been called bossy before alright


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