# Can anyone help Qabout wills and probate



## janebell (23 Nov 2008)

Hi 

I am new to the forum so I hope this is posted in the right place.  If anyone can offer any advice I would be grateful.

My father died about 2 years ago,he left a will but it was not lodged with a solicitor, his second wife has it.  He owned a considerable amount of land and from what I understand he has left the estate to his wife which is then to be distributed between myself and my siblings on her death.

The problem is his wife will not show anyone a copy of the will.  She has written to my sister stating the will exists and that is the end of it.

We are at a loss what to do. 

Is there anyway of making her produce the will without spending a fortune on solictors etc?

Do you have to lodge a will with someone to make it legal?

She has recently aquired planning permission on some of it and we also understand she has actually sold some of it?

No one wants to take anything of her however she has children of her own from a previous marriage and obviously we are all concerned that she may well give the entire estate to them.  

No one has contact with her, so who will advise us if she passes away, if the will is not lodged with anyone?

Thanks in advance for your time.


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## sam h (23 Nov 2008)

I would get a solicitor.

She would have to prove there is a will as otherwise he will be deemed to have died intesate & standard rules apply (as in she get a % & his children get a %). 

I would get this sorted sooner rather than later.


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## mercman (23 Nov 2008)

Jane, if the land has been sold and was in your father's name when he died, the estate would have had to go to Probate before anything could be done, i.e sold, planning etc. Have you tried the Probate Office  and checked whether it has gone through Probate. If it has the Will will be attached and in the Public Domain. Otherwise get in touch with a decent Solicitor before it is to late and your late father RIP wishes are not dealt with according to the Will.


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## janebell (23 Nov 2008)

thanks Sam and Mercman

Apparently he bought the land prior to mandatory registration.  We have checked vwith the local planning as to why she has been allowed planning permission etc and they sent a copy of the document over which she signed.

She has told them she has control of the land for which she has obtained building permission and also all surrounding land.  They granted permission on this alone it appears.

When the planning office were asked how she has managed to do this, they did not have an answer.

Sam we have a letter from her saying that he left his estate to her and upon her death to us, but no will.  This did come via a solicitor.

It also says she is the executor.

Mercman the will has definately not been put through probate as far as we know, we have checked.

I think perhaps a solicitor is the only option.

Thanks for your help.


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## mercman (23 Nov 2008)

Jane, your father may have bought the land prior to Mandatory Registration but if sold the purchasers Solicitor would have had to do the Conveyance correctly. If you call the Probate office in morning and quote your father's full name and date of death, they will tell you if gone through Probate. Anyway, I am not sure could she sell the land without your or your siblings permission as ultimately it is your land. Also if you or your sister are mentioned in  a will, you are entitled to know the exact facts of your entitlements.

Let us know how you get on.


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## PaddyBloggit (23 Nov 2008)

Only recently got a solicitor's letter to state I had been left a little money by a person who died a number of years ago .... came unexpectedly out of the blue .... Enclosed with the correspondence was a copy of the will made ..... full contents ... full details of beneficiaries etc.

As a daughter of the deceased you ARE entitled to know what the contents of the will is. As a daughter of the deceased you are entitled to your share (or not) ... and only the will can clarify that.

I reckon you'll need to get a solicitor to help you sort it ...


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## janebell (23 Nov 2008)

Hi

Paddy we have asked for a copy of the will however she refuses to give us one.

Mercman I will call the probate office tomorrow when I get home from work nad let you know.

Does anyone know if we can go to the courts ourselves and ask a judge to make her produce the will ?


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## Westgolf (24 Nov 2008)

Hi there

As a beneficiary of the will you have a legal right to know the details of the benefit due to you. Get your solicitor on this asap as she will have to produce  the will,to you or your solicitor,in order to confirm the details pertaining to you.

Also keep in contact with the probate office regularly

good luck with it,let us know what happens

Westgolf


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## putsch (24 Nov 2008)

janebell said:


> Hi
> 
> Paddy we have asked for a copy of the will however she refuses to give us one.
> 
> ...


 

Yes there is a procedure to force an executor to proceed with probate - its a bit complicated - people normally use a solicitor & sometimes one or two letters gets things moving - but really you need to take specific legal advice because if you have no immediate interest i.e. if everything left to her for her life there may be really no reason to take out probate now.


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## Purple (24 Nov 2008)

Why's this not moved to Ask About Law?


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## Vanilla (27 Nov 2008)

If she has sold land then the will must have gone through probate ( unless they were joint owners).

Therefore you can get a copy of the will ( which is now a public document) at the probate office.

Beneficiaries are NOT entitled to a copy of the will, nor even a copy of the part that relates to them. They are entitled to be informed of what they were left in the will - but it looks as though she has already told you that.

More than likely she is entitled to do what she has done as she will have had legal advice. Just get a copy of the will from the probate office and needless speculation will be over.

OPs posts are contradictory- in one she says there was a will, in another she says there was no will. Probably just badly worded.


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## mercman (27 Nov 2008)

Surely as a named beneficiary (with her siblings) she is entitled to know the extent of what she is to inherit, albeit it is only after the second wife has moved on. Realistically the wife has a life interest and not full ownership in the estate and should not of disposed of any of the assets without permission of the ultimate beneficiaries. By reading the OPs first post, it appears there are considerable assets, for which if the father died 2 years ago, the value of same would be considerably higher than today's values for Probate purposes.


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## Vanilla (27 Nov 2008)

Vanilla said:


> Beneficiaries are NOT entitled to a copy of the will, nor even a copy of the part that relates to them. They are entitled to be informed of what they were left in the will - but it looks as though she has already told you that.


 

As stated.

In relation to the life interest, same depends on wording of will. Otherwise just speculation.


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## Padraigb (30 Nov 2008)

Vanilla, is it not the case that when probate is granted, a will becomes a public record?

If nobody produces a will, somebody with an interest in the estate can apply to the Probate Office for letters of administration on the presumption of intestacy. Such an application would cause anybody holding a copy of a will to produce it and, I think, force him or her to proceed with an application for probate.


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## mercman (30 Nov 2008)

Padraig. i think you might be incorrect where you state it is not the case when probate is granted, a will becomes a Public record. I am under the impression that once an estate has passed through probate it does become a Public document.


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## Padraigb (30 Nov 2008)

Be fair, mercman! I put it as a question and not a statement because I was not wholly sure about the matter.

I find your comment confusing. What do you mean by "passed through probate"? I am not aware of a necessary procedure for declaring that a will has been finally disposed of, and many estates sit there in perpetuity because of of loose ends that are of no great interest to the beneficiaries -- typically the ownership of a grave. Do you mean that if an executor leaves a family grave in an estate as an undistributed asset, the will never becomes a public record or public document?

My assumption was that part of the purpose of the probate procedure was to ensure that all those with an interest, or potential interest, in an estate could check on their position.

janebell, it might be worth your while contacting the Probate Office at the Four Courts to ask if probate has been granted (or even applied for) and further asking their advice on how to proceed.


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## Padraigb (30 Nov 2008)

I looked here: http://www.courts.ie/offices.nsf/lookuppagelink/7E5F49CBCDFFDBC280256E78005C7EE6

It includes:
*Records available to the public:*
Once a Grant of Probate or Administration has issued the original will, the schedule of assets and the documents grounding the application for a grant become available for inspection and copies may be obtained on payment of the appropriate fee by any member of the public. (section 42 of the Succession Act, 1965)


So I think I was right -- unless somebody can show me how I was wrong.


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## WaterSprite (30 Nov 2008)

Padraigb said:


> Vanilla, is it not the case that when probate is granted, a will becomes a public record?





mercman said:


> Padraig. i think you might be incorrect where you state it is not the case when probate is granted, a will becomes a Public record. I am under the impression that once an estate has passed through probate it does become a Public document.



Lads - you are both saying the same thing!  Mercman, Padraig didn't say that it was not the case - he said "isn't it the case"...


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## Padraigb (30 Nov 2008)

WaterSprite said:


> Lads - you are both saying the same thing!  Mercman, Padraig didn't say that it was not the case - he said "isn't it the case"...



Yes. mercman misunderstood me, and I misunderstood him!


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## mercman (30 Nov 2008)

The joys of rhetorical questions !!


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## Vanilla (2 Dec 2008)

Vanilla said:


> If she has sold land then the will must have gone through probate ( unless they were joint owners).
> 
> Therefore you can get a copy of the will ( which is now a public document) at the probate office.


 
Which is what I said originally?


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## mathepac (2 Dec 2008)

Vanilla said:


> Which is what I said originally?



Oh no, another rhetorical question just when we seemed to have it sussed!


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