# Primary Teaching as a late vocation



## SCurry (6 May 2016)

Hi there.


I am canvassing opinion from those of you who may know regarding primary teaching. I am a 35 year old male. My working life so far has been in IT. I have recently moved to the civil service but I hate it so far. The work is pretty boring and leaves me cold and I am quite down about it. Its not in IT, thought I might like the career change, not so. I was in touch with my old boss yesterday who would have me back and am considering it.


My dream job would be primary teaching. This has been nagging me for 10 years now.


I have been weighing up the Hibernia Course as a semi part-time option. I however have a wife and 2 little ones so it's not a simple decision. My wife works part-time as they are young. I am frantically scrambling around for guidance on if it’s a crazy thought to try and do this course and work part-time. Are the job prospects just too prohibitive? I am in the west and would commute 90 mins e/w if necessary. I have been given various indications good and bad regarding being a male and the job prospects. I am actively involved in coaching in a few sports, Bord na nOg of GAA club etc. I love working with the little ones. Have volunteered for the Junior Achievement program in previous jobs, loved it.


Should I forget it or not?


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## Gordon Gekko (6 May 2016)

If you can both keep things going financially, you should do it. Does your IT background mean that you can generate a part-time income to support your studies?

I would love to have been a teacher as it happens!


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## Deiseblue (6 May 2016)

The idea of following one's dream is generally met with unqualified approval , such approval is not necessarily rational.

So , yes I think you are too old , have too many familial obligations allied to the fact that a huge amount of newly qualified teachers are forced to emigrate for full time positions.

Finally given the fact that you have become so rapidly disenchanted with your current job could the same apply to teaching ?


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## michaelm (6 May 2016)

A 90 min e/w commute seems crazy (to me anyway).  I guess that your age is against you but your gender is for you; it may be a pipe dream.  If it was me I'd reset my view of the new job and stick it out for a year before switching anything up.  By then if I hadn't warmed to the new job I'd look for another job.  I wouldn't go back to the old job.


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## Ceist Beag (6 May 2016)

Have to agree with Deise and Michael here. You need to give the new job at least a year imho before you decide whether you want to move on or not. You might just settle into it and see some good points in it and whatever you do I don't see the point in going back to the old job.


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## Boyd (6 May 2016)

I'm 34 and moved jobs 3 years ago, from private IT work into non-private IT work. I am now moving back to my previous company. Time away made me realise what a good company it was and we met up and worked out going back. Nothing to say you cant go back to old job either, if thats what you want.

However, I don't think teaching route is a very good idea. You have too many committments and may well end up unemployed at the end of the course.

Focus on load kids sports teams etc if thats what you like doing in spare time.


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## trasneoir (6 May 2016)

Lots of schools employ contractors for "specialist" classes like art, dancing, drama, sex ed and (possibly) computing. 
If it's viable, it could scratch the itch to be a teacher without the big up-front time investment in a postgrad course. All you'd really need to start would be garda vetting, some good lesson plans and a principal willing to give you a shot.

While you're deciding/investigating, you could drop a business card around to local schools - start a little side gig working on their computers. Would give you lots of exposure to schools and teachers, help you to learn a little more about the scene.


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## 44brendan (6 May 2016)

SCurry said:


> My working life so far has been in IT. I have recently moved to the civil service but I hate it so far. The work is pretty boring and leaves me cold and I am quite down about it. Its not in IT, thought I might like the career change, not so. I was in touch with my old boss yesterday who would have me back and am considering it.


Totally respect the sentiment and the desire to exit a boring job. Life is short and no way should you be afraid to make a change. From previous experience I can tell you that a boring job has a negative effect on your whole life. However in line with responses from other posters you need to use  the head as well as the heart in making any life changing decision. There are plenty of opportunities in IT which are not boring and you already have the skills and experience to look at a change that challenges you in that sphere.

From family rather than personal experience I can state that primary teaching is an extremely difficult course and at 35 you would be entering a profession where there are big competitions for jobs. The Hibernian course is fine but is well down the pecking order when decisions on teaching positions are being made. As per other responses there are a large number of opportunities to get involved peripherally with children in the education or sports sphere. This way you could get the best of both worlds without burning any bridges.


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## SCurry (6 May 2016)

Thanks for the replies. I'm really struggling in the new job. Thought I'd adjust much better. Whilst there were some days when I didn't exactly 'love' what I was doing in IT I didn't have this dread in the pit of my stomach which I have literally had since I started a few weeks back in the CS. I was generally happy enough. I haven't been able to sleep well the last few nights and its affecting my mood greatly.

On the teaching yes it's been a regret of mine I didn't do it 10 years ago. I might well be able to do IT contracting part-time and try the course. I already do some for a couple of schools and already know some principals.

Brendan you say that Primary Teaching is an extremely difficult course and the Hibernian is well down the pecking order. Are you a teacher or have family involved?


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## Gordon Gekko (6 May 2016)

If you can make the economics work, you should look to do what you will find most rewarding. One of the overarching aims of my life is for my children to be able to do what they actually want to do.


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## 44brendan (6 May 2016)

SCurry said:


> Brendan you say that Primary Teaching is an extremely difficult course and the Hibernian is well down the pecking order. Are you a teacher or have family involved?


Have a daughter that qualified! She has always had a teaching vocation and while she enjoyed the training she found it very tough! The Hibernian comment comes from her earlier interest in that programme. She was advised by some principals that this qualification would result in her being placed lower in the pecking order when job applications were being considered. Nothing scientific about this so you should do your own investigations. Try to locate some recent (preferably mature) graduates through sources such as Facebook/other and obtain full information before making any decision.


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## Joe90 (6 May 2016)

I was in the same position as you 10 years ago, took the plunge, and it worked out for us, but we've had some tough times.  I spent the last two years looking out the window of an office in Mount Street, thinking "I don't want to do this any more....".

First off, make sure you want to do this.  Contact a school principal you are acquainted with, and ask them if you can come in some day and observe what it is like to teach children. Any eejit can read a textbook with a child, teaching them how to learn is much more challenging. I had not stood in a classroom for nearly 25 years, and it was completely different to what it was like in my day.  Make sure you see a junior class, senior class, and a special needs/resource teacher in action. If it's a DEIS school, you'll get a real flavour of what the job is really like. It might change your mind if it is not for you!

Get involved with your GAA club, get garda-vetted and then start helping out with under 6 children on Saturday mornings, football/hurling/camogie. This will always look good on the CV, and the GAA is a great community of people to be involved with.

Ensure you have have all the qualifications - I had to repeat the leaving Irish to get the honour, and then had to apply for the post-grad.  Hibernia was €9K at the time - think it's €12K now, and non-refundable. I went for full-time post-grad in a training college, as I'm not a visual learner. I looked for a career break, but when they refused me, I cleared out my desk and left. I managed to secure a grant, and my fees were paid. We remortgaged the house at a time when the banks were dishing out money. This might not be an option for you if you are far from a primary teaching college - they are in Dublin, Limerick and Maynooth.

Expect a tough interview in both _Irish and English _when you apply for the grad dip. I do not know of anyone who has applied for Hibernia and not been offered a place. The course is now 2 years, and includes a 3-week placement in the Gaeltacht. Do you have the support of your extended family be away for 3 weeks? And to be able to get time for assignments/study?

NB: make sure you get a Certificate in Religious Education (Catholic). Most schools are vested in the patronage of the local RC bishop, some are insisting that you have this when applying for a job. There was an issue with the Hibernia cert, not sure if this as been resolved? You may not get a job in certain diocese without it.

There is lots of work on the east coast, especially the commuter belt, not so easy in the west. Every young teacher wants to be based at home, and not all of them play intercounty camogie, play piano to grade 9, and have toured with Riverdance, but that is what some principals are looking for. Have a thick skin, and don't open your mouth about other schools when in staffrooms. Teachers marry teachers, and have teachers who are sons and daughters, get to know as many local principals as you can, and be as helpful as possible, never say a bad word about another school.

Being male helps, as does making sure you have  go to mass each week and have your parish envelope in the plate.  Do not be a teacher if you want to get rich. In my seventh year as a teacher, I am only now earning what I earned when I jacked in the private sector. During that time, I had a pay cut, and a pension levy imposed on me. I was lucky I got in before the new pay structure was introduced, but even now, we qualify for a GP visit card.  

It's the best job in the world, my only regret is that I did it at 37, and not 27.

Good luck with your decision.


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## SCurry (6 May 2016)

Thanks Joe for that. You are very similar to me in many ways which is good to read.

Few things there I am already doing, I'm chairman of our Bord na nOg in the GAA club and manager of the U12s as it stands. I love it. I have played and coached both soccer and GAA since I could walk.

I actually go to Mass every week and always have done so no issue there. Re the Gaeltacht yes no problem I am blessed with great family.

I also have to redo my hons Irish, I got an A in pass in 1999, dropped out of hons late on as thought I wouldn't ever need it. Can't put an old head on young shoulders. My teacher at the time tried her best to keep me in hons. Wish I listened.

I only have a small mortgage of 504 a month (west coast) so if I was able to get some grant assistance I would manage. I'm not going to get rich in either IT or the CS where I am now. I don't need to be rich, I'd like to be happy.

I'm thinking probably the most risk averse option is possibly do 15 months in the CS and try and do my hons Irish next June. Then start the Hibernian and apply for career break to complete it. If it all goes belly up I can go back to this drudgery.


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## Páid (6 May 2016)

I know it's not Primary school teaching but what about lecturing in the computing faculty in Sligo IT ? You have the experience in the private sector and probably a CS degree/qualification?


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## SCurry (6 May 2016)

Just doesn't interest me P and they're looking for Masters degrees now minimum far as I know which I don't have. I have spoken to a teacher this evening who gave me encouragement. Said stick at the CS job. Do the Irish. At that point I'll either sink or swim. Hibernia my only option location wise so I'll start that and apply for a career break after the initial phase to complete it. She has a colleague who did the Hibernia working with her now. If I fail the Irish or the Hibernia I can always fall back into the CS job. 

I have 30 odd working years left and at least I'll not be forever wondering.


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## Daffodils (6 May 2016)

I got offered a job subbing as a teacher the week I started my current job. Had I been offered it a week earlier I'd probably be a teacher now! I always wonder what life would be like if I'd gone that route. 30 years is a long time to plod along in a job you don't like... Best of luck whatever you do.


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## Deiseblue (6 May 2016)

SCurry said:


> Just doesn't interest me P and they're looking for Masters degrees now minimum far as I know which I don't have. I have spoken to a teacher this evening who gave me encouragement. Said stick at the CS job. Do the Irish. At that point I'll either sink or swim. Hibernia my only option location wise so I'll start that and apply for a career break after the initial phase to complete it. She has a colleague who did the Hibernia working with her now. If I fail the Irish or the Hibernia I can always fall back into the CS job.
> 
> I have 30 odd working years left and at least I'll not be forever wondering.



You are being hugely optimistic , you are not going to get a career break after such a short time working in the Public Sector - you will be at the bottom of any waiting list.
You have to repeat honours Irish & then qualify as a teacher whilst supporting a family .
I can only reiterate- you are not going to get a career break after such short service.


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## Leper (7 May 2016)

The Swot Analysis:-

Strengths:- Desire to work with children and to teach.  Small mortgage. Experience of the real world.
Weaknesses:- Must complete Leaving Cert Hons Irish.  No chance of a Career Break. Some Time off on Nil Rate-of-Pay a possibility. Less family time.
Opportunities:- Reasonable happiness, Longer holidays, shorter working days. Better salary. Perhaps more time to work in IT as an extra? 
Threats:- Fail Hons Irish. Little or no time to study etc. Reality of gulping savings. 

Just a Point:- Several here are getting hung-up on the Career Break issue.  If SCurry goes ahead with his plan I suggest he uses his annual leave, flexi-time, week-ends, spare time to be managed towards his goal.  Put  GAA/Soccer commitments on hold for the duration. These can be reactivated later and perhaps the sporting organisations will appreciate him more.  Family life cannot be ignored and lots of support will be needed here from each family member.

Go for it, we come this way only once.


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## SCurry (7 May 2016)

Right. Pretty devastating news to be honest re the possibility of time off. I was naive hoping I suppose because it played into my aims. I'm pretty devastated typing this as I felt the career break was like a parachute for me if the Hibernia didn't work out. It's too much of a gamble to resign position. 30 years of drudgery awaits.


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## Mrs Vimes (7 May 2016)

Depending on how small the smallies are parental leave might be an option.


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## cremeegg (7 May 2016)

Loads of good advice on here. I would just like to make two comments. 

You are *not too old* and you will not be too old in 10 years time. A close relative of mine trained as a teacher in her late 40s and went on to teach full time for nearly 20 years. She went from a woman with her children reared and her life behind her, to a whole new life and career. This was more than 20 years ago when such things were more unusual than they are today.

Secondly you have just made a major career change. Give yourself at least a year trying to make the best of it before you decide on another change. What can your new colleagues be thinking, "this guy just joined us and already he's unhappy" give them a chance and give yourself a chance in this role.


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## moneybox (7 May 2016)

SCurry said:


> . 30 years of drudgery awaits.



That's negative thinking  your glass is more than half full as it is and there are always options. Plenty of people return to education in their middle years  for you it might just take a year or two longer. Maybe you need to get away and have a couple weeks holiday you sound a bit under the weather. Keep the chin up!


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## Nikephorus (7 May 2016)

SCurry said:


> Hi there.
> 
> 
> I am canvassing opinion from those of you who may know regarding primary teaching. I am a 35 year old male. My working life so far has been in IT. I have recently moved to the civil service but I hate it so far. The work is pretty boring and leaves me cold and I am quite down about it. Its not in IT, thought I might like the career change, not so. I was in touch with my old boss yesterday who would have me back and am considering it.
> ...


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## Nikephorus (7 May 2016)

... I managed to insert my last message INTO your quote Scurry... : (

In case you didn't get it - I can offer you a day or two work experience in  primary school near Dublin. It might help you answer some of the questions you have.

Nike


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## Jumpstartdublin (7 May 2016)

Most generous. Great to have such helpful people in the AAM community.  Well done and hope it all works out


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## SCurry (8 May 2016)

Thanks for the encouragement. I spoke to a friend of mine last night. He's a principal now himself at only 33. I soldiered many years with him on the gaa field. I told him my quandary and I asked him to give me it straight as he knows my family well. In summary he was very positive. Said my background in IT coupled with sport and personality  (especially patience) would be "mana from heaven" for lots of schools. 

He's actually involved with the Hibernia masters which I didn't know about but he would be a great resource as it turns out.

Lastly I have the support of my family including parents for allowing me to study children freewhen mammy working. I have the fees saved and our mortgage  (504 a month) could probably be parked for a year. 

Today I feel positive and have started the Irish research. 


Nike thanks very much for your kind offer. I may take you up yet but I do some IT work for some local schools and have a good few contacts so might get some observation nearer home. That said if I want to be anonymous I may travel further a field..


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## SCurry (8 May 2016)

Gonna give the job more time too, maybe it'll grow on me. If not though I'll be doing my Irish next June at the tender age of 36!


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## Nikephorus (8 May 2016)

SCurry, you seem to be preparing well for a number of eventualities. Stay positive no matter which road you choose. Best of luck.


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## Gordon Gekko (8 May 2016)

Best of luck SCurry.


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## Joe90 (9 May 2016)

Go n-éirí leat!


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## thedaddyman (9 May 2016)

There are alternatives to the Honours Irish including diplomas in Irish from various NUI colleges. That might be an option and possibly more difficult but you end up with another 3rd level qualification rather then simply adding to your Leaving Cert

Is secondary teaching an option given you won't need Irish. ?

Likewise, if you went for or already have a Masters then there are usually vacancies for part time and evening lecturers in your local IT or other colleges, That might be a way of getting your toes wet in teaching

As for the CS role, suggest you just put your head down and given the work is not too taxing, it may allow you the time and mindspace to focus on getting your qualifications to your longer term goals. You should investigate to see if there is a study leave policy


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## Funnyname (9 May 2016)

Best of luck, a friend of mine did the Hibernia course at 39, he was delighted that he took the plunge. Subbing the last year so nothing permanent yet but he reckons it'll happen soon.


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## SCurry (10 May 2016)

Thanks Funnyname fair play to him, had he a family? Doing the course excites me, it's having to quit my job after approx 1 year of it that's scares the bejaysus out of me. I'd love to be able to keep it someway but won't be a runner. A masters in education wouldn't be seen as an advantage where I am working now. I wouldn't care one bit if it was just me to think of, that's the only stumbling block I now see, that fear.


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## Funnyname (11 May 2016)

He has 2 very young kids, one was born during the course, his wife would be the main earner but he had a part time job while he did the course. However he said it was the best career move he ever made.


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## SCurry (11 May 2016)

Thanks. Slightly different for me in that I am the main earner and Mrs Scurry works part-time cos of the little ones. Therein lies my greatest dilemma. If I packed in CS job and then ended up either failing and/or or having to move away to work then I've made a huge mistake. God I wish I could go back in time 15 years!


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## Funnyname (12 May 2016)

But do you really need to pack in the CS job, the Hibernia course is part time (evenings and weekends, correct me if I'm wrong) with a requirement of 24 weeks teaching time and 4 weeks in the Gaeltacht, over the course of 2 years. Could you use a few weeks of your holidays and make up the rest of the time through parental leave if management allowed you to take it in blocks. Sure not a bother on you to do the Honours Irish next year and in the meantime you could work out a plan to see if it was possible to do it. Best of luck whatever you decide.


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## muinteoir (13 May 2016)

I am a primary school teacher. I don't think you're to old to do it but it will be very difficult to get a job. No doubt about it. However, if you're heart is set on it get the Leaving Cert Irish exam out of the way. It is a very difficult paper, particularly if you are not a native speaker. Without it you will be able to go no further so get over that hurdle and you can deal with the rest later.

As for the job I would definitely speak to teachers and spend time in classrooms. It is not the cushy number people think. You have planning and correcting to do. You have to deal with very difficult parents who think that you are a babysitting service. The class sizes are big. You can have extremely difficult classes/pupils. You can have horrible inspectors. You can have a lot of politics in school which cannot be avoided. I've worked in all kinds of jobs and nothing has ever made me as tired as when I have been teaching. In saying all of that I love my job now but I have also been the most stressed I've ever been while teaching. Don't make the move thinking you'll be teaching children who look up at you with awe and parents who are so grateful for what you are doing for their children that they shower you with praise. Be realistic.

I have a suggestion for you that might be an option and no one else seems to have mentioned it. It is very enjoyable and would give you the chance of teaching without having all the financial issues, etc. Contact NALA. They teach maths and reading/writing to adults in small groups. This can vary from groups to one-to-one. The people who contact NALA looking for help are very motivated but for one reason or another they have difficulty with reading, writing, spelling or maths. I have taught these classes and I loved it. The age range varied from people in their early twenties to their seventies. I was working with them on material taught at the top end of primary and the bottom end of secondary. Due to personal circumstances these adults had not been able to keep up with school work (mostly they left school early). I found it very difficult to continue doing the classes because of all of the work I had to do for my job so had to give up in the end but I would recommend it highly. I think they might even have IT classes.

https://www.nala.ie/


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## stephnyc (13 May 2016)

I agree with Muinteoir - as well as concentrating on Irish, I think you should look to volunteer in a more 'classroom' type setting (coaching sport is not exactly the same).

If not nala, would you consider mentoring at the CoderDojo? It's coding classes for kids, and they happen all over the country (https://coderdojo.com/news/tag/dublin/ for example)


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## muinteoir (13 May 2016)

Good suggestion there from stephnyc. CoderDojo and NALA would both need Garda vetting so it is worth getting onto that as it can be quite slow to get done.


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## muinteoir (13 May 2016)

Good suggestion there from stephnyc. CoderDojo and NALA would both need Garda vetting so it is worth getting onto that as it can be quite slow to get done.


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## Firefly (8 Jun 2016)

Deiseblue said:


> So , yes I think you are too old , have too many familial obligations allied to the fact that a huge amount of newly qualified teachers are forced to emigrate for full time positions.



Hi SCurry, sorry to hear the current job is not working out. However, I agree fully with Deise.

If it were me I would try to negotiate a raise with your old employer and go back. In addition then I would certainly look at training as a teacher on the side. If your current job is as bad as it sounds for you, then I would leave - life is just too short. 

Another thing to consider - if your IT skills are in demand would you consider contracting for say 9 months a year and spend the other 3 months a year assisting a school to "get your foot in the door"?


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## LS400 (8 Jun 2016)

I full agree with above points, and I also think you are going to frustrate the life out of yourself trying to fit a square peg into a round hole. To be even contemplating at this short stage of employment looking for time off with career breaks, this break/that brake is actually ridiculous. Its not going to get better, you just have to adjust or not to the workings environment. If you cant adjust, then for heavens sake,for your own health, get back to where you can make things happen.
Most people you come across would love to have a different job, grass is always greener approach.. You have responsibilities now, you will be putting some pressure on you other half, who no doubt is showing you her full support. But, while all this is going on, you have a family to support.

Not meaning to sound harsh,but you need to wise up before it is too late.


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## Leper (9 Jun 2016)

I think SCurry has decided to try and make his CS job work.  He is there only a few weeks and needs time to adjust.  From where I sit, a job is an end to a means, nothing else.  I get sick of people advising "love your job and you will never work a day in your life."  Let's face it, Paddy-the-Barman working crazy hours into the early mornings week after week would find it difficult to enjoy his existence. Does that Eastern European girl enjoy standing behind a Lotto machine for hours on end? Does that wannabe fulltime artist enjoy being a doctor? Would that financial advisor be better off driving a bus?

Work is important (don't get me wrong!) and value for money must be given. But, get caught up in that rat race and you are dicing with your sanity. SCurry has his priorities right and seems to have exited the rat race.  The rats that are left should have more worries than SCurry.


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## JackBlack (26 Jun 2016)

Hi SCurry 

This is probably too late now but I thought I'd reply anyway. 

My partner went back to do a postgrad in primary teaching at the age of 33. Fast forward 6 years and he's qualified but finding it difficult to get employment. The uncertainty at an older age is really horrible, and whereas others starting out can afford to be job hunting for 5/6 summers, it's very demoralising for him especially as we'd like to figure out where to put down roots and settle down! 

Sorry things didn't work out for you, but maybe don't consider it as a lost opportunity as he certainly didn't realise it would be this difficult and probably wishes he stayed in his private sector job!


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## paddytheape (28 Jun 2016)

_Entrance requirements can be tough too so check that for starters, I thought I'd walk into teaching a few years ago but didn't get past entry requirements,as a 30 year old male, with BSc (Chemistry and Physics)and MSc (extra CAO points for postgrad qualifications), All-Ireland medals and lots of sporting calibre, I didn't get a look in.  Furthermore, trying to get onto a 'panel' for a fulltime  teaching position is far from easy.  That said, go for it, but with your eyes wide open, at 33 you're still only a pup and with lots to contribute before retirement at 70._


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## Purple (4 Jul 2016)

paddytheape said:


> _Entrance requirements can be tough too so check that for starters, I thought I'd walk into teaching a few years ago but didn't get past entry requirements,as a 30 year old male, with BSc (Chemistry and Physics)and MSc (extra CAO points for postgrad qualifications), All-Ireland medals and lots of sporting calibre, I didn't get a look in.  Furthermore, trying to get onto a 'panel' for a fulltime  teaching position is far from easy.  That said, go for it, but with your eyes wide open, at 33 you're still only a pup and with lots to contribute before retirement at 70._


What entrance requirements did you not meet?


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## Frank Underwood (2 Jul 2018)

Hi SCurry, how did you get on with the new job in the CS? Did things improve or have you pursued the teaching?


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## noproblem (2 Jul 2018)

Does one still need a grade C or higher in honors Irish to get into primary teaching in Ireland? I ask because i've been told yes, you do


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## Frank Underwood (5 Jul 2018)

You do no problem. I’d say it’s a barrier for a lot of mature students.


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## SCurry (9 Oct 2018)

Hi Frank. I am still in the CS. In the end I had to give up on the teaching as it wasn't going to be worth it between loss of earnings and the overall stress it would cause for me and my wife (plus young kids). She was supportive in fairness but she and my kids would be deprived and we'd be under financial pressure in order for me to follow a career dream of sorts. In the end I couldn't do it and so have knuckled down with my CS job. I realise I am fortunate to have this as an EO and sometimes one just has to look at what they do have instead of what they don't.


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## PaddyBloggit (9 Oct 2018)

Thanks for the update. Sorry that it didn't work out for you.


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