# Can you be made to do the work you would be doing while on annual leave before you go



## ailbhe (12 May 2008)

......
I have a specific number of items of administration that I need to have done every month. I am taking 2 weeks annual leave next month and have been advised that I have to have the work done before I go. So, for example I have 400 admin pieces to do each month, average 100 per week. In the weeks before I go on my annual leave I will need to find somewhere to fit in the 200 items I would be doing if I was there.
This will involve me working over time at a massive rate the week or so before I go. if I don't get it done in time it will be there when I return and will involve over time then so I am stuck either way.
Surely if I were able to do 300 items in one week it would show my employer that I should be able to do more each week normally? How on Earth do they expect it to be done?
I thought paid annual leave was supposed to be just that...leave. Not, work overtime and get ahead of yourself and then take a week off.

They could have someone take on my work while I am gone but they won't. Any advice as to how to deal with this. Should I just work all the hours God sends and get ahead and then enjoy my time off in peace?
Is there any way of approaching an employer with the unfairness of it? I know there are 2 out of the 3 others in the same position as me who think it unfair also. Not sure about the other person as i don't see her.


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## Purple (12 May 2008)

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How big is the organisation you work for?


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## NHG (12 May 2008)

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What happens if you are out sick?  This sounds crazy.


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## ailbhe (12 May 2008)

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About 6 small offices. Total of about 50 employees. 5 in this office. We're always short staffed in relation to the work we have to do.
If I am out sick my work sits on my desk until I return.


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## Purple (12 May 2008)

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ailbhe said:


> About 6 small offices. Total of about 50 employees. 5 in this office. We're always short staffed in relation to the work we have to do.
> If I am out sick my work sits on my desk until I return.


That's the way it works in most small private sector companies. Tough but that's real life for most people in private sector SME land.


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## ailbhe (12 May 2008)

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Maybe it is but my point is that it isn't really paid annual leave as such, it is more like time in lieu.


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## Purple (12 May 2008)

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ailbhe said:


> Maybe it is but my point is that it isn't really paid annual leave as such, it is more like time in lieu.


 You are probably correct but that's the way it is for most people. I do think that your day to day work should be covered but anything that can wait for your return will generally be left for you. I know that I always return to a mountain of work and I get calls and emails while I am on holidays.


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## ailbhe (12 May 2008)

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The thing is that by law (regulation) my work has to be done by a certain date so there is nothing that can be left without falling behind and then basically breaking the law.


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## bigchicken (12 May 2008)

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They can't force you to work overtime.  In reality most people end up working a few extra hours before and after annual leave to make sure things are covered but being expected to do the full amount of work before you go is ridiculous.

I would sit down with your manager and explain that you will do your best to fit as much as you can into your normal working day but that you will not be working overtime to compensate for your annual leave and will complete the rest of the work on your return. Have you asked if you can do a handover to someone else before you go on leave?


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## ailbhe (12 May 2008)

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No handover.There is nobody to hand over to.  Literally my desk will be untouched for the time I am away. When I sent notice of my annual leave I recieved an email from HR saying "thats fine. Just make sure that your work is up to date before you leave".
I have spoken to my manager about this but alas we are all in the same boat as when someone else in the office is out we are not given cover and post/customer queries etc are all left on the long finger due to how busy it is. They won't have time to do my work.
If I don't work over time and don't get it done then it will be there when I get back and I will get a big lecture about being behind schedule.


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## purpeller (12 May 2008)

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ailbhe said:


> I recieved an email from HR saying "thats fine. Just make sure that your work is up to date before you leave".



That's a tough situation to be in.  If the email actually said "up to date" then that is not the same as "make sure your work is 2 weeks ahead before you leave".
I work in a small office and day to day stuff is done while I'm gone but big or difficult stuff is left for me.


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## shootingstar (12 May 2008)

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will you be paid for the overtime you`re going to have to put in to get this workload completed before you take your holidays?


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## ailbhe (12 May 2008)

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shootingstar said:


> will you be paid for the overtime you`re going to have to put in to get this workload completed before you take your holidays?


 

Nope. We are on salary so hours worked are irrelevant.


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## Brianne (12 May 2008)

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I work in the public sector, you know the place where we supposedly do little for huge wages, if you were to read some posts on AAM, and basically I am the only person in my area who looks after what I know as a fact would be looked after by at least two others  if it were in industry.My job is done in the private sector and I have colleagues there. Needless, to say having done this for years, I have got good at prioritising and accept that unless I work day and night certain things are not done as I would ideally like.
However , for years , I have worked late, brought paperwork home and try to maximise work before taking holidays. I still dread going back to work and it usually takes me at least a week to catch up.
However, at one stage I was so overwhelmed that I just couldn't study , work and look after home ; the course, I was doing being necessary to my job. and paid for by my employer. Incidentally, on said course I was entitled to travel and subsistence, but I never claimed same as the paperwork involved in getting the money back would have endangered my mental health!!
I decided to ask for unpaid leave of absence for three months to complete the course......nuts I know but the possibility of failing was humiliating.Anyway to cut a long story short, I got the leave but was informed that certain parts of my job that would occur during my leave had to be done prior to my departure.I ended up working late every night for four weeks and working at high speed . Yes , I left the place in great order and spend two weeks recovering on my unpaid leave.However once I was back, I had a hard look at what had happened,now I have a more even work life balance and if sometime work demanded is  too much, I inform my superiors in writing that whilst I will endeavour to do the requisite tasks, the possibility of not completing them exists. Once they know its their problem.
Moral of the story is that if you are too efficient, no matter where you are, your workload can become too much and the truth is if you were dead tomorrow, they'd manage!!!!


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## Brianne (12 May 2008)

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By the way , I am at home writing this as access to internet at work is not allowed save for a few designated areas, and ability to make personal calls in monitored.But the pension is great!!!1


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## ubiquitous (12 May 2008)

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ailbhe said:


> The thing is that by law (regulation) my work has to be done by a certain date so there is nothing that can be left without falling behind and then basically breaking the law.



That isn't your problem. If your employer isn't getting the work done, then they're breaking the law, not you. 

Incidentally this type of problem is, in my experience, widespread (not just in the private sector, nor in SMEs) and is mainly due to over-zealous State regulations and lack of flexibility in relation to deadlines.


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## MandaC (12 May 2008)

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I work in a small office and usually am left a nice pile of paperwork when I take annual leave. In Jan, I went off for six weeks to Australia(fair play to them for letting me go) but was dreading coming back to a load of paperwork.  Moaned about what I would come back to for a fair bit before I went. Anyway, January is a quiet enough time for us, so was delighted to come back to practically nothing.  One of the Directors and one of the admin. staff did what they could out of my folder when they were quiet. There was a few things left that they could not do, fair enough, and a few things they did that I wish they did not(still sorting them out) but for the main part was delighted.  

I often find coming back to that type of thing takes the good out of going on hols.  I kind of just expect it now as part of the downside of working in a small company, but the rest of the perks here balance it out.


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## FredBloggs (12 May 2008)

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In my last job I had to have certain items done for the 5th day of the month and certain items done for the 10th to email up to head office.  (Couldn't be done in advance as figures etc oinly came available a day or two beforehand) Used be more flexibility but in my last couple of years there the dates were set in stone.   I was the only one could do the work as they wouldn't employ anyone else to be back up.  Meant planning holidays etc around these dates.  There was absolutely no leeway.  When I missed one in February due to a family bereavement it was brought up quite strongly in October in a review from Head Office that I hadn't got the info to them in time one month.  When I said I had a family funeral they said I should have got someone else to do it.  I said to stop a reoccurence could we employ someone who not only could act as backup for me but also for my colleagues who were under similar deadlines.  I was told no  - there was a recruitment freeze on!!!  I left soon after largely due to this attitude.

I spoke last week with the guy who took over from me and he was under pressure to meet the deadlines - something I'd forgotten all about.  He had a very bad stomach flu but had dragged himself into work as the deadline had to be met.


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## Purple (12 May 2008)

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What's stomach flu?


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## Mpsox (12 May 2008)

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I can look at this from 2 sides of the fence

As a manager, the employer here is being incompetent, simple as that. It is dangerous to have a single point of failure, as in this case. It's in the employers best interest to actually train people up to cover for absences. After all, what happens if the OP gets hit by a bus on the way home, who'll do the job the next day. Accept it is not always possible to have someone trained 100% but some degree of cover should be in place. Certainly if I was the OPs bosses boss, I'd not be impressed by her manager

However, should someone clear their desk before the go on leave, most definatley and if that includes, as far as possible, clearing diarised tasks scheduled to occour whilst the leave is on, I'd expect most of it done and a controlled handover to whoever is covering


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## aircobra19 (12 May 2008)

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This is effectively working for free, only you can decide if what you get out of it, is worth what you put into it. 



ailbhe said:


> ...Is there any way of approaching an employer with the unfairness of it? ...


 
Can you not just go up and ask them? Wheres the difficulty here?



ailbhe said:


> ..........have been advised that I have to have the work done before I go. ....


 
What does that mean? Who advised?

What happens if you say no can't do it? or no your not willing to do it?


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## briancbyrne (12 May 2008)

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ailbhe said:


> The thing is that by law (regulation) my work has to be done by a certain date so there is nothing that can be left without falling behind and then basically breaking the law.


 

you dont work in an insurance brkerage do you??


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## Purple (12 May 2008)

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Nobody should be expected to work for nothing. If overtime is required then it should be paid.


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## harriet (12 May 2008)

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ailbhe said:


> Nope. We are on salary so hours worked are irrelevant.


 
Surely hours worked is very relevant.  Is 39 not the maximum number of hours you are permitted by law?

If there are approx 50 employed over 6 offices then surely they can draft in someone from the other offices.

I know we are expected to be as uptodate as possible but when someone is off on hols everyone just mucks in to deal with the day to day stuff.  We always come back to some sort of workload but the urgent/important stuff is dealt with.


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## harriet (12 May 2008)

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Had a re-read of your op and subsequent posts and the first thing that springs to mind is if by law you have to get whatever done surely it is up to your employer to ensure that the work gets done.  You wouldn't be breaking the law it would be them. If you are physically not able to get it done then they should draft in replacement staff to handle it.   Also surely there is a higher margin for error if you are tired as a result of overtime.

I don't they can "make" you do it.   I'd be inclined to finish on whatever day you are due to finish with a "by the way, here is some stuff I just couldn't get through".  Maybe it would be a lesson to them to treat staff a bit better.

Just my thought of course!


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## Purple (12 May 2008)

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harriet said:


> Surely hours worked is very relevant.  Is 39 not the maximum number of hours you are permitted by law?


 The working time act stipulates that no more than 48 hours can be worked, on average, each week. This is enough of a restriction on our right to freely choose how and when we work without restricting it to 39 hours!


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## ailbhe (12 May 2008)

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aircobra19 said:


> Can you not just go up and ask them? Wheres the difficulty here?


 
Difficulty is that they do not think they are asking too much of me in order for this to be done and when I say it is unfair and I am unable to do it I am looked upon as lazy and unco-operative and made to feel as though I am being unreasonable as "everyone else has to do it". 



*What does that mean? Who advised?*

My branch manager and my HR manager.

*What happens if you say no can't do it? or no your not willing to do it?*

As I said above it would not be accepted and I would be made out to be inefficient.

*you dont work in an insurance brkerage do you??* 

Yes I do and am responsible for renewals, reminders, returns and claim cheques so it is heavily regulated and I am tied to a strict deadline.


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## sam h (12 May 2008)

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Is it possible to split you work up as follows:
 - day to day: some one else should cover this when you are on hols
 - Essential reports: these will have to be done either before you go or when you come back
 - Non essential reports (you know the type that managers like to have but the world won't stop if they don't!): can they do without these for the 2 weeks?

It isn't feasible for someone to be expected to ALL of their work due while on hols, but it is also not feasible for most companies to employ someone to cover all holday leave - the sheer time and effort to get them up to speed would generally not make sense (unless you have a very easy job!!).

There needs to be give and take. Employees legally have to take holidays in order to recharge the batteries & most people expect they will have to clear their desk as much as possible and have a certain amount of stuff to deal with when they get back, but it is crazy to expect everything to be done.


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## harriet (12 May 2008)

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Thanks for the correction Purple


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## ailbhe (12 May 2008)

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sam h said:


> Is it possible to split you work up as follows:
> - day to day: some one else should cover this when you are on hols
> - Essential reports: these will have to be done either before you go or when you come back
> - Non essential reports (you know the type that managers like to have but the world won't stop if they don't!): can they do without these for the 2 weeks?


 
My day to day work is all I do really. There are one or two non essentail reports but I am back the week before they are due so they will be done then.


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## briancbyrne (12 May 2008)

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ailbhe said:


> *you dont work in an insurance brkerage do you??*
> 
> Yes I do and am responsible for renewals, reminders, returns and claim cheques so it is heavily regulated and I am tied to a strict deadline.


 

Im afraid this is an industry wide problem - Im faced with it everytime I go on hols myself - and to be honest I dont see a way around it unless there is a policy brought in so that a persons section of work is spread out over everybody else when they are on hols  - - unfortunately this leads to further problems down the line as the nature of the work is that you keep an eye on how certain things are progressing (e.g a claim) and you may loose track if somebody else initiates / takes over a body of work.


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## harriet (14 May 2008)

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oh well ailbhe guess brians advice is enough. either change job or career


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## harriet (14 May 2008)

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What firm are you with in Galway.


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## Soldier (14 May 2008)

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nicely said Brianne  if you dont do the work will you have to do all the work when you come back anyway. if you do 300 of them in the week they will prob expect that of you all the time. isnt the point of a holiday to at least escape some of the work  get off and relax. Plus how can you do work that hasnt come into you yet. Tip* use the shredder :L


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## aircobra19 (14 May 2008)

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briancbyrne said:


> Im afraid this is an industry wide problem - ...


 
Its a problem everywhere really. Across different industries and public and private sectors. I'm sure its an age old problem.



briancbyrne said:


> ....the nature of the work is that you keep an eye on how certain things are progressing (e.g a claim) and you may loose track if somebody else initiates / takes over a body of work.


 
Any half decent computerised system could manage issues like that. Thats what they are for. If some one is not willing to put one in place then obviously thats it own message.


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## harriet (14 May 2008)

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Not sure that is good advice Soldier. How legal is the shredding of documents??

Anyway that is totally off topic.

Ailbhe check your contract!!!!!!  Unfortunately most don't lay down the nitty gritty so did you walk yourself into a corner willing to take salary but not knowing what was down the line??


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## aircobra19 (14 May 2008)

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ailbhe said:


> Difficulty is that they do not think they are asking too much of me in order for this to be done and when I say it is unfair and I am unable to do it I am looked upon as lazy and unco-operative and made to feel as though I am being unreasonable as "everyone else has to do it".
> 
> *What does that mean? Who advised?*
> 
> ...


 
Seem like a work culture problem in that place. I can only see one solution and thats find a better place to work.


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## ailbhe (15 May 2008)

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Well, I made a decision which is to work like a Trojan when I am in there. I am going in about 20 mins early, taking a short lunch but leaving bang on time. I am steadily getting through the work but I know I won't get that far ahead but I don't really care tbh. I won't kill myself working for nothing. I don't even get thanks for it so why bother. It will be sitting there waiting when I get back but I might be a bit more refreshed and less stressed out by it. 
The location of the job is convenient and I enjoy what I do. I'm not well paid by any means but unless I travel in and out to Galway city (hour each way if traffic is bad and it usually is) I won't find a similar position and with the way the market is at the moment I have good security in my job as it is a well established business which is expanding all the time. 

So c'est la vie. Sacrifices have to be made for the job which is 5 minutes from home and suits family life. But not sacrifices to the point of insanity


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## ailbhe (15 May 2008)

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By the way soldier the docs that are sent in go through manager and then on to me so I couldn't (not that I would) shred them. It would be more hassle than it was worth 

Harriet, I'd prefer not to say which group I work for understandably. The internet isn't as anonymous as it feels.


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## briancbyrne (15 May 2008)

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aircobra19 said:


> Any half decent computerised system could manage issues like that. Thats what they are for. If some one is not willing to put one in place then obviously thats it own message.


 

not true - the very nature of the work involves communication via fax,mail,phone,email, internet , internal and external "piped in" computer systems - unless you get nasa's supercomputers on the case Im afraid only a human is flexible enough to act as the central hub for all types of communications.


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## harriet (15 May 2008)

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Of course Ailbhe.   No worries.   Just when I saw your location I thought you might be working for some of the big brokers in Galway and wondered why they couldn't sort holiday time around everyone.   

Very few brokers with so many offices iykwim unless spread out countrywide.

I mean everyone takes holidays in the summer and most places (at least the places I have worked) plan around holidays and have made sure that there is a continuity of service and that there is enough staff to cover.

Brian imho there should be absolutely no reason why you couldn't operate normally when someon is off.  Surely there are procedures in place to minimise disruption.  Customer service is first and foremost, so someones claim not being looked after because "Sorry X is on holidays" doesn't wash?

Work in most places are deputised.   You hold a meeting with the person drafted in to look after things in your absence and you document what has to be done, what to look out for, what you have agreed ect.. ect...


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## Satanta (16 May 2008)

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briancbyrne said:


> not true - the very nature of the work involves communication via fax,mail,phone,email, internet , internal and external "piped in" computer systems - unless you get nasa's supercomputers on the case Im afraid only a human is flexible enough to act as the central hub for all types of communications.


Not sure I agree there. I'm not in this sector, but with experience of project management, contract supervison, etc. a lot of the same issues are/will be dealt with, all via computerised systems.

Even without a complex system in place to track/manage everything, a decent register with all communications/documents/etc. stored via word/pdf (e.g. if there's a phone call, it gets logged with ALL the exact details entered into a document and saved... never dealt with internet/"piped in" systems but I'm sure the data could be set up to allow for easy export) should allow for a fairly managable transfer of data between staff from a very simple system (a little time consuming to set it up [everyone needs explicit details on how the storage must work etc.], but better than no system).

Obviously, the above doesn't solve the problem of the knowledge required to complete specific tasks (e.g. maybe this is the only person skilled to complete a certain role/task), but that's an issue which should also be tackled at management level regarding transfer of knowledge/training/building in redundancy/forward planning/etc.. No employee is guaranteed to remain with a company, so ensuring there is a back up put in place is a (IMHO) requirement.


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## aircobra19 (16 May 2008)

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briancbyrne said:


> not true - the very nature of the work involves communication via fax,mail,phone,email, internet , internal and external "piped in" computer systems - unless you get nasa's supercomputers on the case Im afraid only a human is flexible enough to act as the central hub for all types of communications.


 
From experience thats exactly one of the things a computer system is perfect for. A communications hub.


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## Brooklyn (18 May 2008)

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This is exactly the reason there are such things as "temps". Maybe it's not possible to train someone to do your specific job while you're away, but surely they can get someone in to take little admin chores off of your co-workers so that your co-workers then have time freed up to deal with your work. I can't see any reason that wouldn't be possible, apart from simple bad management.


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## pernickety (18 May 2008)

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I think it's reality for most people. And unfair.

Going on maternity leave I nearly killed myself getting everything up to date and writing out procedures that had never been recorded before. Of course when I was gone everything went smoothly, too smoothly. When I came back they asked me to change jobs cause mine 'seemed to run itself'. I was disgusted. And refused.

When I went on maternity leave the second time D), I did the bare minimum beforehand. When I went back they bowed to me and told me I was brilliant! Figures!


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