# Geothermal and wood pellet heating



## beingeco (18 Oct 2005)

I am building a new house shortly and have been researching geothermal and wood pellet heating systems for it. For a long time I was going with the geothermal system, despite the high cost of the installation. I also looked into a wood pellet system which at first seemed like a great choice.

The biggest problem with both is that there are just so many unanswered questions that it makes it very difficult to decide which one (if any) to go with.

I have outlined some of the things that still concern me about both these systems below, and am very interested in other peoples opinions on them...

Geothermal
1. If any thing went wrong with the piping the whole garden would have to be dug up. I understand the chances of this are probably slim but there still is a chance.

3. I did have some concerns about the system absorbing all the available heat from the ground on the colder days leading to increased demand on the electricty and increased running costs. This problem seems to be avoided by laying the pipes deep enough and far apart 

(i.e. 6ft deep and 4ft apart). Only problem here is that a few of the pictures on websites show the pipes being laid close together and not very deep! Why?

4. Using a water well seems more effecient than laying the pipes under the soil. Only problem is the cost of; drilling the well, a 

return well (no stream near by) and an extra pump to pump the water out. This pump is dropped into the well which is then sealed up, but what if this pump breaks down? 
And if its running constantly for 10+ hrs a day the chances of a breakdown are high... 
And then there's the additional cost of running this extra pump.

4. A lot of the savings calculated are based on the night saver rate but what happens if/when this rate no longer exists? 

5. There doesn't seem to much info on vertical closed loops. They are mentioned but nothing about how they rate compared with horizontal and open looped systems.

Wood Pellet Boiler
1. Storage of the wood pellets is a biggest issue and is overlooked by all of the documentation on these systems. You need approx 1m cubed to store 0.6tonne.

2. The quantity required for a year is poorly documented too. Just how long would 1 tonne last? One figure I read suggested that 1 tonne will last for about 2 weeks depending on the size of house, your usage and the moisture content of the pellets. At about 160 - 190 euro per tonne that could work out very expensive. 

2. The moisture content should be less than 10% for the pellets but given the irsih climate they are more likely to be 18-20% (based on my research). The only suggestion I have seen for keeping the moisture content at <10% is store them in a well insulated and heated room!

3. There are silos available for storing them but none state whether they would be effective in keeping the moisture levels at <10%. 

If they don't then the only advantage of paying 2K for one is that you don't have to keep refilling pellets every 3-4 days as they are connected directly to the boilers. Perhaps there is another reason?

3. Perhaps a mositure content of 18% isn't really that big a problem but all the data I've read is based on a low moisture content so just how effecient is it at the higher content? And what about the CO2 emissions?


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## z102 (18 Oct 2005)

You did some good research . The points raised by you are an issue . One major point to put into all calculations is the price for carbon combustion. Mineral oil is the major source for combustion technology and as long as this is the case all other carbon sources develope their prices along with the oil, pure market economy . 
The Dutch electric energy company NUON is building a powerplant ( thousands of mega Watts ) at the Dutch coast that would take virtually all hard carbon sources :Coal, timber, bio fuel/fibres, garden waste and - if necessary- peat. They do so for market reasons . Every one bidding for timber fuel like pellets (which are more expensive than chips due to their manufacturing process ) should keep in mind that this fuel comes for market prices , not for free. 
EON -that is Powergen in GB - are building a similar somewhat smaller plant in Scotland of 500 mega Watts.
These two projects plus the Swedish ambitions to become independent from fossile and nuclear fuel at latest in 2020 will make timber an expensive fuel to burn just to get the warmth from it . The power companys are using the combined heat and power technology to use their resources to an optimum, far more efficient than just the boiler. And so they can pay higher prices for the fuel. And they can off set the investments against taxes plus save on CO2 trading charges .
These savings are denied to the Irish consumer because they would cost money in the beginning . Giving away roses with deadly thorns , these are election gimmics that the short sighted voters are grabbing for .  
So for the private energy consumer there is only one way to be economical. Insulate your home . Use as little energy as possible . And then all other calculations are not worth the batteries of the calculator so to speak . 
Find out what your energy demand in the new home would be like . And then tell your civil engeneer to reduce this energy demand to an absolute minimum . And then let him sign this calculation so you can come back on him . And then think again about heating . 
There are zero energy houses available off the hook , pret a porter . This is no space technology . 
And spending tens of thousands on heat energy supply with unknown future costs instead of paying a once off sum for a proper house -with the same initial investment costs ! - is a mistake .


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## beingeco (19 Oct 2005)

I agree 100% with you on insulating the house and am researching this too. I do intend putting in well over the current building reg. amount, and still spend the extra on a heating sytem other than oil or gas.

Not sure I agree fully with your point that timber will be an expensive fuel to burn in the future. Granted the pellets are an unknown but then so is the future price of electricity, oil and gas. So while the cost of burning the pellets may go up as you suggest, so too will the cost of the others. The important thing is that the pellets continue to remain cheaper than the others...


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## Betsy Og (19 Oct 2005)

Your own Wind Turbine

Have ye any experience of these? - was a website I got on to, a UK one, that had these for sale - will supply details once find it. 

Seems a good idea, these are small devices capable of mounting to side of house or top of ditch etc. - not a big tower needed. Wonder if ESB will buy the excess units of you??, I suppose if you could reduce your ESB bill to zero it would be enough (I think you'd still need connection to national grid as times of no wind & then excess power wastage if not connected to grid).
Could possibly do hydro-electric as well as permanent water flow is stream adjacent to house but think this might be more complex as varying water levels & impact on wildlife etc.


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## demoivre (19 Oct 2005)

Did you research aerothermal heating? Here's a crowd I saw advertising recently and might be of interest to you
[broken link removed]


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## z102 (19 Oct 2005)

Neither wind turbines are suitable for home heating nor are Sweco's heatpumps an alternative to electric heating . Both systems are considerable  expensive , either to purchase or to run . Electric heatpumps tapping the air did never become a market runner , the Swedish gouvernment is paying now subsidies to rip them out. Ireland is used as a dump for obsolete home heating systems.
If you are willing to go (and to pay!) for alternative CO2 free heating than super insulation in combination with solar power seems to be the only way forward . Installing a central heating system for tens of thousands of €s just to cover a few kilowatts of demand is causing more demage than good - for the environment as well as for your purse. Grey energy is the energy embedded in every sum of money . When a reproduce able good costs a certain sum to purchase it will contain this amount of money in the form of energy. There is nothing to discuss about , that normal capitalism/economy . 
That means if you spend lets say ten thousand €s on a heating system you have automatically spend ten thousand €s worth of energy . If this a once off sum , o.k., it can be calculated when it will pay off . But if running costs , maintenance costs and replacement costs  still have to be added than this was a stupid purchase to be done on a  home. It will never pay back. Every mechanical engine part will have to replaced sooner or later.That is the boiler, the pump plus energy for it ect....  
Going above the building regulation demands for insulation is not the key point in building an energy conscious house , but an important one . You need a proper civil engeneer who guarantees you that your building will consume only a certain amount of bought in energy.The new energy pass for buildings is delayed to protect the incompetent businesses of Ireland . Not to protect the consumers against money losses. This energy pass would make it clear for every single consumer what I said above. Money talks an universal language and still the Irish want their own way to introduce and to calculate the energy pass.There is plenty of " reason " behind this strategy of doing nothing , so be carefull when listening to incompetent architects and suppliers of questionable products.
Ask your advisors for a calculation sheet and a written guarantee. If they can't come up with both - by by.


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## beingeco (3 Nov 2005)

> Electric heatpumps tapping the air did never become a market runner , the Swedish
> gouvernment is paying now subsidies to rip them out. Ireland is used as a dump for obsolete 
> home heating systems.

I looked into the aerothermal system and on paper seemed great. In fact it seemed much better than the geothermal with the horizontal loops. Your comment that the Swedish government is paying subsidies to rip them out is very interesting.
Could you tell me where you heard/read this?

> If you are willing to go (and to pay!) for alternative CO2 free heating than super 
> insulation in combination with solar power seems to be the only way forward .

This house would cost a lot, possibly twice what a normal build would and way over my budget and probably the majority of self builders budgets. Even if it cost 100K extra to build it, it would be years before you'd see any payback! And, using your argument, you will be buying 100k worth of energy upfront.

> That means if you spend lets say ten thousand €s on a heating system you have 
> automatically spend ten thousand €s worth of energy

I don't fully agree with this logic, but if it is correct then doesn't it apply to *ALL* available heating systems, even the alternative that you mention? 

The Geothermal/wood pellets may have running costs but they are supposed to be cheaper to run with an eventual financial payback and less harmful than storage heating, oil, gas etc. 

I agree that when building a house the money should first be spent on the insulation and then if there is enough in the budget then go for the geothermal or pellets heating system. 
My original question was which system is better?  I would still like to know...

Also, by using the likes of airtricity for your electricity supply you will be helping the environment that little bit more...


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## z102 (3 Nov 2005)

What is your exact question? What do you mean by "better"?

For the info about pulling out all electric heating systems in Sweden and replacing them with subsidised alternativ heating solutions you can either check the web or ask Sweco themself . Ask them why their heating systems aren't getting subsidies in Sweden , any reasonable heating system in the EU gets subsidies , exept for Ireland- the dump. Maybe by e-mail ....I got my infos from the international press , but you can contact the Swedish Environmental Department direct via http://www.sweden.se .Or you mind find some info at the Swedish web paper at ?... 
As I said: Aereothermal heatpump manufacturers applied for a blue angel symbol (check the web ) in Germany and where denied it.
Evidence that Ireland is used as a dump for obsolete heating technology you will find in any heating suppliers shop. Or you check the back numbers of the Irish magazine "Construct Ireland" available under  . Issue 7 No.2 page2 gives a hint . They still carry advertisings for all sort of crap heating , but that is money , you know.... 
The Austrian passive homes builders ass. will build you a home for roughly the same price as a standard home without much of heating costs , but keep in mind that their prices are without the land purchase . http://www.igpassivhaus.at  , that is their webpage. They speak English.
In Japan more than 20.000 homes are buid evry year that are so called "energy plus homes"-these deliver more energy than they use. Check the web.  
What "grey energy " is and what in means in terms of money i.e. energy-check the web.
In larger populated areas -like Berlin for example- pellet heating systems without special (costly) filters are illegal due to their dust emmissions.In the entire zone of the inner "S-bahn Ring" , this ban is effective. Despite that the green department of environment is residing there.The sales slogan "nearly no ash" is a blunt lie , the ash is blown out the chimney to be enjoyed by others , the EU has strict standards set up for fine particles emmissions, thanks to the conservative voters these standards are watered down till the next EU election. Which is good for the EU industry , but it kills it's citicens , a few hundred thousand per year....
And using an alternative source of electricity is no solution to the Irish user.Wind energy is fed into the grid to be used by all who use the grid.  Using recycled paper for writing a letter to be send by airmail does not make the sender energy conscious. Most electric energy you buy from the grid is made from carbon. More than 90 percent, made by some of the worst polluting types of power plants . Which does not mean that supporting wind energy is a bad thing . But using electricity for heating is though. As I said about "grey energy" - what you pay is the amount of energy been put into. And buying electricity producing powerplants and their services - you mentioned airtricity- means pollution. A GE windmill produced in the US might have a smaller CO2 pollution effect since they use nuclear power in their grid ....
You are never helping the environment by using it's resources. As "the loneley planet" says in it's foreword : Leave nothing but your footprints and take nothing but fotos.  
Now my question to you : How high is your energy demand in the planned home?  What has your engeneer figured out?
One hundred thousand €s extra is a sum that is unbelieveable, are you sure you have the right engeneer?
Keep in mind that a house lasts more than 50 years , and it propably takes 30 years to pay off the average mortgage - plus the energy costs in the mean time and after . Check back what electricity prices where 30 years ago and just figure out what it might cost in another 30 years-when electricity has to replace the carbon energy via hydrogene.Than it will realy become expensive...no matter how it will be made by then .
A house that needs no energy is a sales argument that can't be beaten.


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## beingeco (4 Nov 2005)

I got quotes from builders to build the house. The further from the standard regs I strayed the higher the price. Perhaps I selected the wrong builders but that's one of the points I was making, there isn't enough information or help out there for those who want to make a difference. 

It is great that in Austria and Japan that they are building these energy efficient homes but in reality in Ireland we are always playing catch up. Unless you have the money or government assistance and the time to keep an eye on the builder it will be long time before these types of homes are common place in Ireland.

I appreciate that buying products made from recycled materials or buying electricity from aertricity isn't 100% green but isn't it better than not doing anything? 

The same applies to whether to use an alternative heat source. Isn't it better than going for an oil burner? If it costs 572pa for the electricity and maintenance for a geothermal system is that not better than paying 1375+pa for an oil system? - figures are from sei for a 200sqm home, based on Jan 2005 prices.

Lets have a bit of encouragement for those who are making an effort! And rather than simply rubbishing their efforts lets have few realistic alternatives. And back them up with links to the articles.

As for my question, I though it was obvious - Which is better oil, geothermal or pellet heating? 
But let me ask another, if I have the house super insulated, water heated by solar panels, and making as much use of passive heating as I can - south side of house is overlooking a neighbour so not allowed any clear windows on the upper level - what heat source do you suggest I use to make up the remainder heating requirements?

btw I still haven't found any information on the subsidies in Sweden to remove aerothermal systems and nothing on the denial of a blue angel symbol for them either. I will keep looking and post links here if/when I find something.


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## z102 (5 Nov 2005)

Any electricity unit (kWh) used has to replaced in the grit with 1 or 2 kWhs to fed into the grit. First there are transmission losses and secondly there are production losses.These numbers are from the SEI.
So saving one thousand kilo Watt hours combustion energy (roughly 100 liters of kerosene ) in the home and replacing these with 500 kWs of electricity is like pi..... in the wind, at least when it comes to the environmental aspect. Plus the money/energy wasted on the plant ...but I spoke about grey energy before.
Casting sand into peoples eys is not my way, reality isn't that bad at all. Awareness is the first step on the right way.  
You still haven't told what  your netto energy demands are. KWs per square meter/year as well as the maximum demand of kWs per square meter.As well as the kilowatt hours for the entire building divided in to the sections heating/cooling of the building and domestic warm water, evtl. ventilaton requirements.
Giving numbers in €s per year for oil or electricity is of no use for a heat demand calculation. Remember what the prices where 30 years ago ? What pound figures would the builders have calculated 30 years ago ? Useless numbers only, all wrong!!
And you still haven't said what you mean by "better" - is it your purse or the environ mental impact that you mean? Have you asked Sweco for the Swedish subsidy policy on their products ? Have you asked ANY of the suggested product manufacturers why other gouvernments in the EU have to pay subsidies to make their product atractive ? The money sensitive Europeans don't need a helping hand for their  calculators.
So that is evidence enough that these systems aren't economical. But that doesn't mean that they aren't ecological. The Germans for example are cutting back on subsidies for  warm domestic water solar panels because these are already self financing....


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## beingeco (14 Nov 2005)

Which is better from a) a financial perspective, and b) eco perspective?

I am getting an energy audit done on the house but have been waiting well over a month - its being done as a favour so I can't really complain.


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## Touch Wood (10 Jan 2006)

The same heatpump and fittings that a friend of mine used was available for a lot lower price in Poland.
He also bought in the outside Granitewool insulation (150mm) from there and is using it on the outside of the Poroton blocks.
I know some builders who use these systems for reasonable prices.


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## z102 (13 Jan 2006)

How would a layer of 150mm granite wool (are you sure it's granite?) hold without sagging ? Sure there must be some holdfast like rails employed incl. the plugs and screws and glues. And that in multiple layers. As far as I have searched the web no more than 80mm EPS can be glued to the wall irrespectivly to the structure material.If going for more than the thing becomes more complicated. The wind would either pull it off or push it in. If pulled off it's gone , but if pushed in then cracks appear and water will penetrate the structure.
How was the windload calculated ?


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## Touch Wood (15 Jan 2006)

I sent you the info on Paroc in one of the other threads.
It is a more natural breathable option and more envoirnamental friendly which I know you will appreciate from reading some of your knowledgable answers. I could show you some samples of the material if you live near SCR.
It is also popular with the Aircrete systems.


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## ECOHOME (25 Feb 2006)

Hi there, I will try and answer some of you questions. Last March I moved into my new house which we had built on a 1/2 acre site. I took the risk and went for a wood pellet burner. Ok it needs to be filled at least twice to three times a week put we have to pay for the damage we have caused to the environment so how. The house is 2000 sq feet (30ft x 30ft and a storey and a half high). I will burn 3 tonnes a year I store the bagged fuel in a room near the boiler. Ok what do I do with the bags, fuel merchants are crying out for bags to bag timber logs(they will be hopefully recycable in the near future. I put a 8KW wood burning stove in th living room the room opens up to the second floor. When this stove is burning it heats almost 2/3 of the house. In Sept last I fitted Solar panels these are worth there weight in gold. My heating cost for this year will be around €750 to €850 for the year and the total cost of the 3 systems is €12,000 ok it sounds a lot. But just added up that nice oil Rayburner in the kitchen (never used for cooking), then theres the lovely solid marble fireplace (85% of the heat up the chimney) and finnaly theres the ESB bill for heating water = Total €€€€€€€€€€€€ 
PS since I put in the Solar Panels the emersion was never rewired and never will be.


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## extopia (25 Feb 2006)

ECOHOME said:
			
		

> The house is 2000 sq feet (30ft x 30ft and a storey and a half high).



That sounds more like 1350 sq feet. 

Where did you buy your wood pellet burner from? Where do you get the pellets? Would be interested to know.


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## ECOHOME (25 Feb 2006)

True but there is a small lean too of the side of the house where the washroom is, the  pellet store and the heating system hot water cylinder etc. But any way your question, I get my pellets from Balcas ([broken link removed])


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## extopia (25 Feb 2006)

Do you buy directly from Balcas or through a dealer? How much are the pellets?


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## z102 (25 Feb 2006)

Let me try to ad up the sum: 1350 square feet=(divided by 9) 150m2.Only two thirds are heated by the stove = 100m2. To keep 100m2 warm you need 3000kg of timber with a heating value of half of that of oil (1500kg of oil is around 2000 liters). That means you are using 200 watts per square meter per year ---just for space heating.That is around class "D" in the energy passport. That is a very bad scoring. I use around 70kwh/a/m2 incl. hot water and cooking (70 kwh primary energy in the form of LPG) , combi condensing boiler with 90% efficiency and tank incl. conection and certifying it. It did cost around € 6000 to get the system working incl. the UFH. € 2000 I paid for the boiler, nowadays these are only half the money, even less ,I have seen them in B&Q for less than €400.
http://www.bioexchange.de


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## sudden (27 Feb 2006)

talking of putting in extra insulation,would italso help if the inside leaf of the house was built using quinnlite blocks?.


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## z102 (27 Feb 2006)

To Touchwood: more details on the "less then €400 boiler" see here:


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## sudden (28 Feb 2006)

Free Speech said:
			
		

> Build one leaf with Quinnlite blocks and insulate externally, Much better.


  inside leaf of 4 inch quinnlite,4 inch cavity with 50mm insulation,4 inch standard outher leaf,should be insulated enough??.how would you insulate externally?,what about the plastering outside,wont the plaster crack


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## z102 (28 Feb 2006)

Check the SEI homepage for the " U-value calculator" to get an independant calculation (and an explanation what to look for): [broken link removed]


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## Geegee (28 Feb 2006)

I had a discussion with a wood pellet supplier recently who suggested storing the wood pellets in an underground storage bin. Three tonnes of pellets (minimum bulk delivery) would take up a lot of space, so it would b good to hide them, but would the pellets get damp? I already have a new(ish) oil boiler so I was  told that this could be used and only the burner would have to be changed at a cost of €1900 +VAT for supply only of a 25kw/90000 BTU burner. Is this price about right? 

A full system complete with boiler, burner and attached hopper is €3,200+VAT ; again, is the price competitive?


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## z102 (1 Mar 2006)

Have you thought about the statical impact on your house when digging out a 3 m3 hole next to the foundation and not refilling it with compacted hard(-core) material? Will you still be able to walk on this underground tank? Have you ever seen what happens to an MDF board when dug in ? It swells because it's taking up moisture. The pellets are delivered -hopefully- with a max. moisture content of 10% . That is the legal max. under EU fuel legislation. After a few month outside here in our climate it will be more than 20%. They-the pellets- will swell, fall apart, turn to dust, start moulding,block the feeder, dampen the fire.
What is the efficiency of your existing oil boiler, the Sedbuk range? You will certainly loose on this (propably bad) efficiency even more when installing a burner not made by the boiler manufacturer for the purpose and using wet fuel, there is no one-fits-all burner. Have you thought about the ash as well? I don't know of any oil boiler that provides for ash removal..... 
Tell us where we can see such a system working, sure the wood pellet boiler seller has some references ? 
Mind the cowboys!


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## Geegee (1 Mar 2006)

> Tell us where we can see such a system working, sure the wood pellet boiler seller has some references ?


 
Yes, he has the system at his own house but not with the underground storage. I mentioned the contention that there is a problem with moisture absorption in the mild irish climate which is not the case in Scandanavian countries but he insisted, on avarage, it is as dry or drier here than there!


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## Num57 (2 Mar 2006)

Recieved this reply from Dept of Enviroment about grants for renewable energy

"The exact details of the schemes are currently being defined and it is expected that the grants for householders and biomass grants programme will be launched within the next 4-6 weeks. It is likely that the following general principles will apply in relation to the grants for householders:The grants will most likely be available for renewable energy systems installed in homes.  Such systems might include solar water heating, heat pumps and wood pellet boilers and stoves. It will be required that the systems installed be from a registered list of technologies  (which will be published at the time of the scheme announcement) and will have to be installed by service providers from a registered list  (again from a list to be published at the time of scheme announcement). Once the scheme has been announced, applicants will have to apply for, and receive approval before any materials are purchased or any works are commenced.  Payments for materials / works completed before grant approval is secured cannot be reimbursed. "

Has anyone heard on the grapevine how much these grants might be? Reckon a grant of €2000 would make wood pellet boilers a much more viable option than present.


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## extopia (2 Mar 2006)

Great. I just installed my heat pump BEFORE this was announced in budget 2006. 

I wonder will prices go up once the grant is introduced?


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## Geegee (26 Mar 2006)

Heinbloed,

From reading your posts you seem to be opposed to geothermal and wood pellet heating. In essence, would you recommend keeping a new gas or oil boiler and ensure the house is well insulated? What do you think about boiler optimizers and reflective radiator panels?


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## z102 (27 Mar 2006)

Please, Geegee, buy yourself a good book about basic heating and home building. Collin's DIY book for example.
And use the SEI homepage , it answers most of your questions in detail, incl. fuel price comparrison sheets, U-value calculator, insulation and so on. Ask your boiler MANUFACTURER about things like optimisers. Why aren't they build in? Who is guaranteeing etc..
The usuall " double U " question will get you to the point:WHAT, WHEN WHO, WHERE, WHY and so on. And insist on numbers, facts.
I'm not opposed to any form of heating, but I'm opposed to chancers who try to sell financial madness or technical rubbish to the uninformed.
Using biomass to produce useable energy to reduce human's impact on the climate is not wise if the biomass has to be transported. It's much wiser to use this biomass in central electric powerplants -as long as there is still need for them- at source and feed the electric energy into the grid , making use of the combined heat output to heat nearby places or use for example an Elsbett engine to produce even more electric energy from the waste heat, the warm smoke.And using the heat energy derived from the smoke to dry the fuel before it's beeing combusted. Internatinall operators like EON, Vattenfall, EDF are using this method already. But they pulled out from the Irish market, beeing to small to be considered worth it to fight legal 
causes, the return on investments (investments, not speculative business) is faster achieved somewhere else. Anywhere else. Money goes where it's welcome, if I might cite an earlier poster. 
Not for nothing the gouvernment has anounced today that renewable biomass homeheating will be subsidised-to keep competition away from the electric market.The worst climate demagers are electric powerplantsrunning on fossile fuel. Putting a signature under a legislation that would put a hefty tax on tungsten bulbs-forcing consumers to change en masse to Cfl's- would cost 2 seconds of ministerial work. And safe us a powerplant. Subsidising madness is one way of protectionism. 
And geothermal heating is the most promissing way of supplying our economy with centralised electric power. Not for nothing the gouvernment has anounced that madman ideas like "Wavebobs" will be subsidised.....
The real Mc Coy of geothermal heating is not for offer here in Ireland, at least it can't be seen working here. Check the IEA homepage what the term "geothermal" means. Certainly not "groundsourced heat exchangers", pitty that the SEI fell for the propaganda, as well as for the "wavebob" and that they are still not recognising the existence of "double A rated" white ware/household goods. Those who pay for the band decide what tunes will be heard..... 
Think logical.


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## erw fran (27 Mar 2006)

can anybody provide a link to the grant details that were announced at the weekend, I can't seem to find them?


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## beingeco (27 Mar 2006)

Details are available on the Department of Communications, Marine and Natural Resources website:
[broken link removed]


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## erw fran (27 Mar 2006)

that's great - thanks


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## AJL (27 Mar 2006)

I have to agree with heinbold. I am going to build a super warm house using SIP (structural insulated panel, Kingspan TEK) boards. I will be getting a heat loss calc done next week but spoke to somebody that has built using this method. Says it is the business. Spent about 1/2 to2/3 of tank of oil for a 3200 sq foot house for the whole winter. I will go through two tanks at the moment for a 1300 sq ft house that is poorly insulated in half the house. 
He heated the house by putting in a small oil burner connected to a radiator battery which feeds into MVHR system. 
By insulating the house (it is practically air tight), as you said before heinbold, it means the alternative sources of heating systems are less attractive. With this Kingspan TEK system you spend less on the build cause you only have to build one set of blocks on the outside compared to a double cavity with insulation. Also the roof is solid so you can take away some of the costs of building a roof. No chasing walls as all walls are studded internal.  The way labour costs are going it makes financial sense to me. 
I think geo may make sense in a block house but my way of thinking is build a house that needs little costs to heat. Making those mortgage payments are difficult enough but having to fork out 900 euros for a tank oil every couple of months hurts more. I'm all for helping the environment but it has to make financial sense too.


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## onekeano (28 Mar 2006)

ECOHOME said:
			
		

> In Sept last I fitted Solar panels these are worth there weight in gold. PS since I put in the Solar Panels the emersion was never rewired and never will be.



Hi ECO home - can you please advise where you sourced your solar panels?

Thanks
Roy


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## Geegee (3 Apr 2006)

> I have to agree with heinbold. I am going to build a super warm house using SIP (structural insulated panel, Kingspan TEK) boards. I will be getting a heat loss calc done next week but spoke to somebody that has built using this method. Says it is the business. Spent about 1/2 to2/3 of tank of oil for a 3200 sq foot house for the whole winter. I will go through two tanks at the moment for a 1300 sq ft house that is poorly insulated in half the house.
> He heated the house by putting in a small oil burner connected to a radiator battery which feeds into MVHR system.
> By insulating the house (it is practically air tight), as you said before heinbold, it means the alternative sources of heating systems are less attractive. With this Kingspan TEK system you spend less on the build cause you only have to build one set of blocks on the outside compared to a double cavity with insulation. Also the roof is solid so you can take away some of the costs of building a roof. No chasing walls as all walls are studded internal. The way labour costs are going it makes financial sense to me.
> I think geo may make sense in a block house but my way of thinking is build a house that needs little costs to heat. Making those mortgage payments are difficult enough but having to fork out 900 euros for a tank oil every couple of months hurts more. I'm all for helping the environment but it has to make financial sense too.


 
I like the sound of this. What sort of cost per square foot would this type of house be?


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