# through amber light - guards stopped car



## briancbyrne (26 Feb 2008)

Hi,
My brother got stopped on sunday morning by the guards for going through an amber light. When asked did he "know it was illegal to go through the lights when amber", my brother replied that he was not aware it was illegal and it was impossible for him to stop safely in time.
The guard replied that "as far as he was concerned it was a red light" and promptly wrote him up.

What are my brothers options as he feels strongly that the light was amber and couldnt believe the guards change in opinion over the colours.
Is there any way to get it looked into it before it goes to court, as the judge is bound to take the guards word over my brothers and double fine & points.


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## ClubMan (26 Feb 2008)

briancbyrne said:


> my brother replied that he was not aware it was illegal and it was impossible for him to stop safely in time.


He might have fared better if he just acted contrite. I know that others will say "why should he" etc. but that's just the way it can be in such situations.


> The guard replied that "as far as he was concerned it was a red light" and promptly wrote him up.


What exactly do you mean "wrote him up"?


> Is there any way to get it looked into it before it goes to court


Is it not just a fine/fixed penalty? Are you sure that court is the next stop?


> as the judge is bound to take the guards word over my brothers and double fine & points.


I would imagine that your brother would be wasting his time challenging this no matter how hard done by he feels.


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## Mpsox (26 Feb 2008)

I always though amber meant prepare to stop or prepare to go. Accept there may be times when it is not safe to jam on the brakes, especially if there is someone on your tail, but I would have throught as well that he is wasting his time on this one


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## amgd28 (26 Feb 2008)

Well when I was learning to drive, my instructor told me that when encountering an amber light you should "stop if it is safe to do so". i.e. don't stop if it means jamming on the breaks and causing a potential pile-up. I think the guard in question appears to be taking a very opportunistic and agressive approach on this and I would fight it if I was your brother.


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## briancbyrne (26 Feb 2008)

What exactly do you mean "wrote him up"?

gave him a ticket /fine

Is it not just a fine/fixed penalty? Are you sure that court is the next stop?

It is just a fine / points - but the point is he doesnt feel he should pay it and he cannot address / appeal the issue unless he refuses to pay and wait until it goes to court to have his say.


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## ClubMan (26 Feb 2008)

briancbyrne said:


> It is just a fine / points - but the point is he doesnt feel he should pay it and he cannot address / appeal the issue unless he refuses to pay and wait until it goes to court to have his say.


As I mentioned above I suspect that he would be foolhardy to take this approach no matter how strongly he feels about the matter. If he is tempted to do this then he should talk to a solicitor (more expense!) ASAP. I think he'd be better off paying the fine, accepting the point and learning (e.g. to drive more carefully/defensively) from the experience. Just my opinion.


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## csirl (26 Feb 2008)

> Well when I was learning to drive, my instructor told me that when encountering an amber light you should "stop if it is safe to do so".


 
This is what the rules of the road say. I think it would be near impossible for him to prove that it wasnt safe to stop if he contests it in court. Remember that you are also supposed to slow down when approaching lights, so if he never slowed down, the argument that he was going too fast to stop wont work either.


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## SNOWBALL (26 Feb 2008)

I agree with clubman just pay the fine, im sure you would be wasting your time on this one.Are you really going to go 2  the bother of arguing over this.


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## TreeTiger (26 Feb 2008)

The Rules of the Road state that an Amber light means Stop at the stop line. You may go on only if the light turns amber after you have crossed the stop line or are so close to it that to pull up might cause a collision.  I suspect not a lot of people know this 

Arguing with a guard is not usually a good idea, far better to say sorry I'll never do it again!


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## Tormented (26 Feb 2008)

I agree with TreeTiger, pay the fine, cut you losses, the Guard would win this one for sure.


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## Martinslan (26 Feb 2008)

Look at this another way,  The Garda can not say "as far as he is concerned it was a red light".  He is trained to observed what happened not his own version of what happened. If your brother feels strong enough about it then let it go to the Dis. Court and hope he wins or at least not have the points doubled. (which is another debate) 
D.C. Judges are well know to have minds of their own and the ball could hop either way. There is no half way house on this one, pay the fine or take it up in court


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## csirl (26 Feb 2008)

You've heard the expression

"dont do the crime if you're not prepared to do the time".

We'll in this case its pay a fine. You brother ran a light & got caught. He should accept his punishment rather than whine about trying to get off on a technicality.


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## briancbyrne (26 Feb 2008)

csirl said:


> You've heard the expression
> 
> "dont do the crime if you're not prepared to do the time".
> 
> We'll in this case its pay a fine. You brother ran a light & got caught. He should accept his punishment rather than whine about trying to get off on a technicality.


 
csirl - - - I think the point is he didnt do the crime!! - - if that is you had bothered to read the original post!! - - but you were obviously too busy coming to your own hastily misconstrued conclusion.... and as for "whining" ... it beggers belief that some people will write such an off the cuff reply -- helps nobody.
..but then your lack of understanding of the rules of the road have been highlighted before  - see http://www.askaboutmoney.com/showthread.php?t=75634


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## MrMan (26 Feb 2008)

I think it has become common place ( myself included) for alot of Irish motorists to pick up speed at an amber light. I see it daily with one and two cars still going through at red, sounds like the guard followed the letter of the law so just bite the bullet and forget about it.


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## briancbyrne (26 Feb 2008)

thanks for your input folks - probably better off paying the fine - I think its one example that highlights the need for an appeals process that doesnt involve facing stiffer penalties if unsuccessfull.


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## ClubMan (26 Feb 2008)

briancbyrne said:


> csirl - - - I think the point is he didnt do the crime!!


Are you sure?


TreeTiger said:


> The Rules of the Road state that an Amber light means Stop at the stop line. You may go on only if the light turns amber after you have crossed the stop line or are so close to it that to pull up might cause a collision. I suspect not a lot of people know this
> 
> Arguing with a guard is not usually a good idea, far better to say sorry I'll never do it again!





csirl said:


> This is what the rules of the road say. I think it would be near impossible for him to prove that it wasnt safe to stop if he contests it in court. Remember that you are also supposed to slow down when approaching lights, so if he never slowed down, the argument that he was going too fast to stop wont work either.


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## briancbyrne (26 Feb 2008)

ClubMan said:


> Are you sure?


 
well he told me it was amber and thats good enough for me...it is afterall all we have to go on as it forms the basis of the original thread.

Ive just rung the local police station and they have confirmed that it is not illegal to go through an amber light, though the only time you should do so is if it is unsafe to stop be it due to the proximity of traffic around you or if it means you end up in an intersection etc.


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## ClubMan (26 Feb 2008)

Well most people so far have suggested that he should just grin by paying the fine and taking the penalty point so there's probably not much point in continuing the thread.


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