# How did your new build perform during the Cold Spell?



## porridge (5 Jan 2011)

I thought it would be interesting to hear how the new builds faired out during the cold snap. I will kick off with my own. 

Build information:  Year 2009, 3200sq ft, Timber Frame, 1.5 Storey, mHRV
BER: A2
Insulation:  8” Cellulose and 2” Rockwool, full fill in cavity
Heating System: Two wood burning stoves with air distribution systems. Manufactures: Lotus and M-Design. Electric under tile mats in the bathrooms. 
Fuel Purchased this year: 2m3 kiln Dried hardwood for €325. Bought in Nov, half used. 

Performance: 
There is just two of us occupying the house for the most part.  The Lotus stove heats the living room and bedroom. We light it at around 5pm, burns until about 11pm. Easily and quickly heats Living room and bed room to 20°C. The rooms hold their heat very well, still warm and comfortable until lighting up the next day. We would burn 5-6 pieces of timber per day. 
Over Christmas, with visitors calling, we decided to use the M-Design Stove to heat the open plan, kitchen, dining and living room. We lit the stove on the 23rd, and 24th and were very disappointed. The space reached about 14°C and we had burnt about 24 pieces or timber each day! Lit again early xmas day, must have burned 40 pieces of timber. Oven and cooker on full cooking xmas dinner. Temp reached 16°C. 
Lit the M-Design again on 2nd Jan, easily heated the open plan space to 18°C with about 20 pieces or timber. 
Neither stove lit since 2nd Jan, all rooms circa 16°C. 
Conclusions:  Open plan space was difficult to heat during the exceptionally cold weather, it took a few days to ramp up the temperature. Holds temperature well once heated. 
Improvements for next year: We will install oil and rads for convienence during exceptionally cold weather.  
Best Buy:  The electric mat in the bathroom. Although I haven’t got the ESB bill yet!


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## browtal (5 Jan 2011)

Please tell me about the electric mat in the bathroom, never heard of that. I am very interested. Thanks Browtal


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## onq (6 Jan 2011)

porridge,

Fascinated to hear about your experiences especially in the light of the large floor to ceiling patio doors I have seen employed in some houses and extensions.

Am I correct in assuming that you have a separate pair of rooms for reception;
- the living room that was heated with the bedroom with the Lotus stove, and
- the open plan kitchen/living/dining room that was heated by the M-Design?

And that only the smaller living room was heated regularly?

Two further questions, just to tie things down a little;
- does the open plan kitchen living dining get any direct sunlight especially south light?
- do the smaller living space and bedroom get any direct sunlight especially south light?

Making certain assumptions, I would venture to suggest the following scenario may arise.

Even a well-insulated house will lose heat over time.
Unless the interiors are heated by solar gain during the day [limited though that may be in the winter time, it still counts], they will gradually lose their heat.

Similarly, insulation only helps retain heat, it doesn't generate it per se, so with no heating internally and even with some solar gain, if the total source of heat isn't sufficient to counter the heat lost at night and when its extremely cold, the building will get cold.

The fabric of the building itself will lose heat until the walls and even the insulation in the walls will eventually grow cold.

Heat transfer from the rooms that are heated will go some way to reducing this phenomenon, but many people building today seem to be using Rockwool and other insulants to sound-proof their internal walls.
This, together with tight-fitting internal doors and insualted first floors, will keep heat clsoe to the source and will tend not to disperse and heat the whole house.

The principle was first mooted in the 1997 Building Regulations with their relatively low interest in internal insualtion between spaces, which treated the house as an entity with separate zones for sleeping and living with only the living zones getting heated during the day.

While the bedrooms being used were heated, others could grow cold and attract damp and fungal growth, with likelihood of increased risk of pipes freezing during cold weather if the water tank was over one of those.
It gradually became apparent to some that allowing the rooms to get cold in very cold weather was counter productive to the health of the occupants if conditions caused condensation leading to damp and fungal spores to proliferate.

Everything has become magnified in the later regulations, with internal insulation meaning that heat transfer is further minimised while air-tightness can mean a higher incidence of air borne water vapour.

Judging from questions and accounts of issues arising both there and on boards.ie it seems that people are not being well informed as to the requirement to keep a certain minimum level of heat to avoid condensation/damp and/or long heat-up times.

Two log burning stoves may find it hard going to heat up a modern home if there is no background level of heating from radiators and/or underfloor heating to keep the "unheated" spaces at a certain minimum level at all times.

The current cold winters are not typical of Ireland over the past 50 years or so in my experience and hopefull will disappear with the sunspots peaking after 2013 - but thats still two years away!

So much for global warming.


ONQ.

[broken link removed]

All advice on AAM is remote from the situation and cannot be relied upon                     as a defence or support - in and of itself - should      legal        action    be      taken.
Competent legal and building professionals should be asked to advise in                     Real Life with rights to inspect and issue reports on     the         matters    at      hand.


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## sustanon (6 Jan 2011)

onq said:


> The current cold winters are not typical of Ireland over the past 50 years or so in my experience and hopefull will disappear with the sunspots peaking after 2013 - but thats still two years away!
> 
> So much for global warming.



Can you shed some light on the effect of sunspot activity on global climate change?

Thanks


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## onq (6 Jan 2011)

Nope. 

I was referring to the effect of sunspot activity on Irish winters, not the global climate.
For the record, I tend to be more of a skeptic where global warming is concerned.
We are frozen out of it this winter and the Gulf Stream "elevator" is still running.

For more on sunspots, the Gulf Stream, and the Little Ice Age try Wiki:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sunspot
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gulf_Stream
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Little_Ice_Age

ONQ.


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## porridge (6 Jan 2011)

Are you sure you haven’t been to my house ONQ? 
All assumptions about layout are correct: 


_“Am I correct in assuming that you have a separate pair of rooms for reception;_
_- the living room that was heated with the bedroom with the Lotus stove, and_
_- the open plan kitchen/living/dining room that was heated by the M-Design?”_


And yes only the smaller living room & bedroom is heated regularly. These are heated with the Lotus everyday as described. All internal walls constructed from timber studs filled with cellulose, and ceiling joists (open web) are filled also. These rooms are nice and cosy pretty much 24/7. These rooms are on the east side of the house, and get a boost from the morning sun. 
The open plan kitchen living dining is on the west side of the house, stretching 26m from north to south. On the south gables there is one set of patio doors (in dining room) and one window (over kitchen sink). On the most southerly gable there is a set of double doors leading to a sunroom. This was lovely and warm during the day, and so we left the doors open by day and closed in the evening. 
This was our first winter, and it was eagerly anticipated! We were really looking forward to seeing how the house performed. Your points above are an accurate refection of what we experienced. I think you are right we allowed the fabric of the building itself to grow cold. This was false economy as it took a lot of time and effort to heat it back up. We were a bit naive heading into winter without our boiler and rads installed. Especially as we were out and about a lot before xmas and didn’t get our big stove lit as often as we would like. 
No problems with freezing pipes thank god! Or with dampness, but I guess it would take longer than a few months to see serious effects of this. I haven’t taken any measurements, but I am a strong advocate or MHRV, it sucks any dampness right out. I wouldn’t be without it! 

All things considered, we are very happy with the stoves, they are lovely to look at, clean and efficient. I do think that the boiler is needed for the sake of convenience and as you said, to top-up in extreme cold. 

Browtal, The mats are fundamentally an electric element, laid into the grout under the tile. It is set using a thermostat and timer. They are available in tile shops. Heats the bathroom lovely. 

Cant comment on global warming or sun spot predictions!


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## Towger (6 Jan 2011)

porridge said:


> Browtal, The mats are fundamentally an electric element, laid into the grout under the tile. It is set using a thermostat and timer.


 
The down side is they can do wonders to your ESB Bill


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## onq (6 Jan 2011)

Thanks porridge,

I've seen more than a few houses and I've gone on several [broken link removed] plus you were accurate in your description of what occurred - the rest was easy to infer.

Also I'd like to thank you for your in-depth description above - if anyone wants to ask questions here about a house - short of attaching drawings - THAT's a good way to describe it.

Would I be right to assume from what you posted above that boiler and radiators were due to go in, but that you just couldn't wait before moving in yourselves?

ONQ.

[broken link removed]

All advice on AAM is remote from the situation and cannot be relied upon                      as a defence or support - in and of itself - should       legal        action    be      taken.
Competent legal and building professionals should be asked to advise in                      Real Life with rights to inspect and issue reports  on     the         matters    at      hand.


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