# Parking rights in apartment complex



## Clonback (10 Dec 2017)

I  live in an apartment complex that has no designated parking.I have parked my car in the exact same spot for 15 years .Could I gain title to the space?


----------



## TheBigShort (10 Dec 2017)

Perhaps. If no-one has challegened you for the space, I would paint 'Reserved' on it by now. 
See what happens.


----------



## Threadser (10 Dec 2017)

Unlikely as presumably the common areas in the apartment complex are owned by the management company.


----------



## Clonback (10 Dec 2017)

Threadser said:


> Unlikely as presumably the common areas in the apartment complex are owned by the management company.



Correct but what about adverse possession?


----------



## LS400 (10 Dec 2017)

In the unlikely event that you could take ownership of the space, what proof have you, that you and only you have used that space for 15 years??

On the other hand, if you have had the uninterrupted use of this space, what's changed now that you want to own it outright. 

Could it be you want to sell with the added value of a designated parking bay?


----------



## noproblem (10 Dec 2017)

When you purchased the apartment your contract of sale would have stated what you were buying and more than likely no car parking space was purchased by you, or included in the sale contract. Why that was, you probably know the answer. I cannot see how you can take ownership of that car space now, regardless of you using it as "you say".


----------



## Threadser (10 Dec 2017)

No point in speculating about this, consult your solicitor and clarify the legal position. If there is unallocated parking within the estate owned by the management company then it is unlikely that you will be able to do what you intend.


----------



## jdwex (11 Dec 2017)

Has anyone else parked in the space in the last 15 years?


----------



## noproblem (11 Dec 2017)

Clonback said:


> I  live in an apartment complex that has no designated parking.I have parked my car in the exact same spot for 15 years .Could I gain title to the space?



Time to take the car out for a spin at this stage but i'd argue you don't need a car at all..


----------



## Palerider (11 Dec 2017)

The lease would state that the common areas, parking in this case are owned by the OMC, they have maintained and kept that area by keeping it clean etc, there is no way you can claim ownership.


----------



## Clonback (12 Dec 2017)

noproblem said:


> Time to take the car out for a spin at this stage but i'd argue you don't need a car at all..


I travel c.15000 miles p.a. My solicitor feels as I have exclusive use of this parking spot for in excess of 12 years I can claim title.


----------



## noproblem (12 Dec 2017)

I may be wrong but do think that particular law being done away with or something like that.
A case was taken by a squatter in Galway city for adverse possession of a property and they lost the case. The judge ruled that because the original owners paid insurance on the property over the years the squatter was in situ, that showed they were entitled to be seen as the owners.


----------



## mf1 (12 Dec 2017)

Clonback said:


> I travel c.15000 miles p.a. My solicitor feels as I have exclusive use of this parking spot for in excess of 12 years I can claim title.




You'd need to look at the title deeds but I'd be pretty sure that you can't claim adverse possession as you are using the spot with the consent of the MC.

mf


----------



## Joe_90 (12 Dec 2017)

mf1 said:


> You'd need to look at the title deeds but I'd be pretty sure that you can't claim adverse possession as you are using the spot with the consent of the MC.
> 
> mf



I'd agree the MC gives right to park there.


----------



## llgon (12 Dec 2017)

Even if there was a chance that you could claim adverse possession is there any point?  You have had use of the space for the past 15 years. Is this likely to change? Will your apartment be worth any more with ownership of the space rather than use of it? Do you want to fall out with your neighbours? Will you be able to insure the space? What about resurfacing in the future?


----------



## messyleo (12 Dec 2017)

Clonback said:


> I travel c.15000 miles p.a. My solicitor feels as I have exclusive use of this parking spot for in excess of 12 years I can claim title.



How do you know somebody hasn't parked there whilst you have been out driving then?


----------



## cremeegg (13 Dec 2017)

mf1 said:


> You'd need to look at the title deeds but I'd be pretty sure that you can't claim adverse possession as you are using the spot with the consent of the MC.
> 
> mf



?? I dont think so. Adverse possession can be claimed even where the owner has consented to the use.

Although I do think the fact that the owner has insured the space might stop the OP, also if the OP has been paying management charges, then adverse possession does not arise.


----------



## Sarenco (13 Dec 2017)

cremeegg said:


> Adverse possession can be claimed even where the owner has consented to the use.


Sorry Cremeegg but that is not correct.  

For the doctrine to apply, the possession must be adverse to the interests of the owner.  By definition, adverse possession cannot arise where the possession arises with the licence or consent of the property owner.


----------



## cremeegg (13 Dec 2017)

Sarenco said:


> Sorry Cremeegg but that is not correct.
> 
> For the doctrine to apply, the possession must be adverse to the interests of the owner.  By definition, adverse possession cannot arise where the possession arises with the licence or consent of the property owner.



I do not think that the circumstances whereby the person claiming adverse possession came to hold the possession are relevant. Adverse, means that the user has possession which excludes the legal owner's possession rather than overlaps it.

In the above case the OP has not taken adverse possession just because he has parked his car there. His possession is not adverse to the legal owners possession. The legal owner has continued to exercise their ownership during the period, (depending on the facts) even though the OP has been parking there.


----------



## Sarenco (13 Dec 2017)

cremeegg said:


> I do not think that the circumstances whereby the person claiming adverse possession came to hold the possession are relevant


Sorry Cremeegg but the circumstances are relevant.  Again, adverse possession cannot arise where the owner has consented to the possession.

See para 17.4 of the attached:-
http://www.prai.ie/adverse-possession-title-by-adverse-possession-to-registered-land/


----------



## Vanessa (29 Dec 2017)

You may have possession but you may not have a right of way to the space


----------



## dlawgal (4 Mar 2021)

@Clonback what ever happened in the end with this? Curious myself about adverse possession of a car space.


----------



## Pmc365 (4 Mar 2021)

In my case I purchased an apartment number 2, with a well located  parking space marked "2". Unusually the parking space wasnt identified on the title by a map I.e. it was allocated by the management company. However, when I signed contract I was allocated a  less desirable  parking space further away in the complex. I think the managing company directors own several apartments and did this to suit themselves.


----------



## Clonback (5 Mar 2021)

dlawgal said:


> @Clonback what ever happened in the end with this? Curious myself about adverse possession of a car space.


 I have sold that apartment and the new owner is now in my old parking spot.


----------



## Johnno75 (5 Mar 2021)

You will not obtain adverse possession (AP) over a parking space in the common area of an apartment block where you’re the owner of an apartment.

Firstly, the management company of which you’re probably a member will have title to the common area parking spot. You’d be claiming adverse possession against yourself effectively.

Secondly, and in any event as an owner, you’re parking there with an implied permission (or even express permission) from the management company, depending on the terms of title deeds to the development and long lease of the apartment/management company agreement. One prerequisite to acquiring property by AP is that you occupy the land as a trespasser without permission.

In real life, to obtain adverse possession over land, you must do so “nec clam, nec vi, nec precario” for a minimum of 12 years (without secrecy, without violence and without permission) but you’d want to be in adverse possession for around 20 years before a court would consider accepting a claim for AP. For you to succeed, you would have to build a fence around the claimed property and keep it under lock and key - something difficult to do with a parking space and something which would draw some attention to the fact within days.


----------



## dlawgal (5 Mar 2021)

Thanks @Jayom75 

Very helpful.

In my case, there is a dispute with a management company after I recently decided to move into my apartment which had been rented out for 10 years.

My tenant didnt use the space.

The MC says another apartment sold my car space.

My deed documents say I have exclusive licence to use space no. X

So I am aghast how someone else could 1. sell my space 2. could do so when I have the exclusive licence to use space no. X.

The MC say they have no record of me and my owning the car space but I have the deeds which plainly prove it.

Would it be possible that the MC gave a licence to another person ignorant of my interest?


----------



## Johnno75 (5 Mar 2021)

dlawgal said:


> Thanks @Jayom75
> 
> Very helpful.
> 
> ...


I’d be surprised if the MC gave a licence to another in violation of your ownership. But who knows. If you have the deeds showing you have exclusive licence to use the space then that suffices.

If someone sold rights to your space, that sale is void as the law will not permit one to sell what one doesn’t own (“nemo dat quod non habet”).

Exclusivity remains with you and legally never passed to the purported owner. Whoever arranged the transfer, it’s their problem to deal with with the purported purchaser.


----------



## dlawgal (5 Mar 2021)

Jayom75 said:


> I’d be surprised if the MC gave a licence to another in violation of your ownership. But who knows. If you have the deeds showing you have exclusive licence to use the space then that suffices.
> 
> If someone sold rights to your space, that sale is void as the law will not permit one to sell what one doesn’t own (“nemo dat quod non habet”).
> 
> Exclusivity remains with you and legally never passed to the purported owner. Whoever arranged the transfer, it’s their problem to deal with with the purported purchaser.



@Jayom75 

Thanks, I might sleep easier tonight.

My solicitor handling it now.


----------

