# Not much work history, but ok finances.



## Coconut Water (7 Mar 2021)

*Age: *37
*Spouse’s/Partner's age:* n/a

*Annual gross income from employment or profession:* 43000 basic, but probably 45000 with Overtime
*Annual gross income of spouse:* N/A

*Monthly take-home pay:* 1500*
*This would be around 2800 but I have pension and health insurance from work and I am in the share scheme.

*Type of employment:* e.g. PAYE, Multinational

*In general are you:*
(a) spending more than you earn, or
*(b) saving. *I spend about 12k a year, maybe up to 15 if the lockdown ends.

*Rough estimate of value of home:* N/A

*Other borrowings – car loans/personal loans et*c: N/A

*Do you pay off your full credit card balance each month?* N/A

*Savings and investments:*
Savings 290k cash
Shares: 120k invested and 60k unrealised gains
Bitcoin: 70k invested and 500k unrealised gains

*Do you have a pension scheme?* Yes, and maxed out my AVCs. However, I'm on only 1 year of contributions.
I also have only been working for 4 years in my life so far. And only on the dole for about 3 months.

*Do you own any investment or other property? *No

*Ages of children*: N/A

*Life insurance: *11.99 a month and 100k payout if I go before 65


*What specific question do you have or what issues are of concern to you?*
I started working at 18 for a summer job, and then had no job for years, so I only have 4 years of PRSI contributions. Would this bring my state pension down if I get it because of the yearly average contributions being lower? Or is it assessed off total contributions? Can I use my capital to make additional contributions to the state pension or my work pension? Should I?

I'm sitting on a lot of unrealised capital gains for bitcoin. Germany and Portugal have a 0% tax for these. Could I move abroad to take advantage of this?
As I understand I have to work in Germany for 3 years to become tax resident. If I do that, and then realise my gains, would it all be taxed at 0% (German rate) or would some or all of it be taxed at the Irish rate? How would this affect my state pension? Could I do 5 years here and then 5 years in Germany to bring myself to 10? Could I ever come back to Ireland?

My brother doesn't make much money and won't probably in the future. How do I give him as much financial support as I can other than gifting him the 3k a year?


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## Coldwarrior (7 Mar 2021)

I don't have the answer to your questions but wow, that's some serious savings and assets on an average enough income. Did you make most of that from bitcoin and sell some of it for the cash savings and stock investments? Or was there an inheritance etc? Either way fair play, your in a brilliant position. I'd be nervous about having so much in a single "currency" like bitcoin  and would move more to a diversified stock/index portfolio but it's worked for you so far so what do I know.


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## Cervelo (7 Mar 2021)

When you were unemployed were you claiming unemployment benefit, if so then these years are also included in your PRSI contributions


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## Coconut Water (7 Mar 2021)

Cervelo said:


> When you were unemployed were you claiming unemployment benefit, if so then these years are also included in your PRSI contributions



Wow, I never knew. I was on it, but for a few moths only. Have added that detail to the first post.



Coldwarrior said:


> I don't have the answer to your questions but wow, that's some serious savings and assets on an average enough income. Did you make most of that from bitcoin and sell some of it for the cash savings and stock investments? Or was there an inheritance etc? Either way fair play, your in a brilliant position. I'd be nervous about having so much in a single "currency" like bitcoin  and would move more to a diversified stock/index portfolio but it's worked for you so far so what do I know.



Yeah, everything I have is pretty much from bitcoin. Unfortunately I'd be in a much better position if I never sold any but there you go. I am still nervous about having an undiversified protfolio, but even if bitcoin went to nothing I still did ok, and I'm not nervous to the point where I feel I have to get rid of it soon.


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## Clamball (7 Mar 2021)

You have great assets, no dependants (maybe the brother).  

Would it be worth your while to spend some money on a tax consultant who understands the EU rules and put a 5-10 year plan in action and see if you need to move or not to reduce your tax liability.

And where would you like to see yourself in 10 years time, living and working in Ireland? Or travelling and earning more money?   You are considering your retirement and tax credits but have you considered where you will live, maybe invest in the property now.  You have clearly made good decisions in the past around your investments and money and are willing to take some risks so will that continue or do you see yourself taking less risks as you get older?  Best of luck!


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## NoRegretsCoyote (7 Mar 2021)

Coconut Water said:


> I'm sitting on a lot of unrealised capital gains for bitcoin. Germany and Portugal have a 0% tax for these. Could I move abroad to take advantage of this?


By the time you do this your half a million could be worth €50. Or €5million. I dunno.

You've had an amazing run with bitcoin. If it was me I would cash out maybe 80% of it and put it into a house I can live in.


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## bish123 (7 Mar 2021)

First suggestion is to sell majority of bitcoin (like tomorrow) and pay CGT. Its important to lock in unrealised gains. Tesla is down from 900 to 600 and may dip even further. What if bitcoin start loosing value ? Once you have real money, you can make plans.


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## mtk (7 Mar 2021)

Fair play ! 
May I ask if it’s not too personal how you got the money to invest in Bitcoin and shares having worked so little ?


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## Coconut Water (8 Mar 2021)

Clamball said:


> And where would you like to see yourself in 10 years time, living and working in Ireland? Or travelling and earning more money?   You are considering your retirement and tax credits but have you considered where you will live, maybe invest in the property now.  You have clearly made good decisions in the past around your investments and money and are willing to take some risks so will that continue or do you see yourself taking less risks as you get older?  Best of luck!



I would move aborad if there was a compelling financial case, and avoiding paying 33% on so much profit would fall under that definition. So I would move, but I don't see myself travelling around.
I will buy a house if I make a decision on where to live, but that's very much up in the air now.
Less risks as I get older for sure. Let the compounding build the wealth, have steady employment income, sensible tax planning, maybe buy the Tesla dip as recommended by bish.


mtk said:


> Fair play !
> May I ask if it’s not too personal how you got the money to invest in Bitcoin and shares having worked so little ?


From bitcoin. Bought early, then sold. Ended up buying back in a few years later.


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## NoRegretsCoyote (9 Mar 2021)

Coconut Water said:


> I would move aborad if there was a compelling financial case,


By the time you have established residency abroad the bitcoin could be worth nothing.


Coconut Water said:


> Let the compounding build the wealth,


For compounding you need a return, and bitcoin doesn't pay interest.


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## NotPoodle (9 Mar 2021)

Coconut Water said:


> I would move aborad if there was a compelling financial case, and avoiding paying 33% on so much profit would fall under that definition. So I would move, but I don't see myself travelling around.
> I will buy a house if I make a decision on where to live, but that's very much up in the air now.
> Less risks as I get older for sure. Let the compounding build the wealth, have steady employment income, sensible tax planning, *maybe buy the Tesla dip as recommended by bish*.
> 
> From bitcoin. Bought early, then sold. Ended up buying back in a few years later.



I could be mistaken, but I'm not convinced that buying the Tesla dip is what bish123 is recommending? More an example of what can happen with your investment.


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## Coconut Water (3 May 2021)

Ok, I read around a bit further on voluntary contributions and this is my understanding, which may not be perfect.

It seems it is possible to make voluntary contributions towards the state contributory pension but only after paying 520 contributions from regular employment, so I would have to wait for another 6ish years of work to be able to make voluntary contributions.
I don't think that you can keep working away after the 520 are made, and make your compulsory contributions and voluntary contributions simultaneously, effectively making 2 years worth of contributions in 1 year. So these are only for the unemployed/self employed etc.

In terms of using being unemployed and using capital to make voluntary contributions I don't think it's strictly possible. It seems, and I'm not 100% on this, that you pay voluntary contributions as being 6.6% of an income to a minimum of €500 per year. I don't think that means you say just pay a €500 on no income, but that 6.6% of your income must be greater than €500.. Which means you must have some sort of income to the tune of 7.5 grand or so. That would require almost 200000 of capital paying 4% in dividends. I would considered renting rooms in my house When i buy one) but as you don't pay tax on that I'm not clear that you could use that to pay the 6.6%.

With regards to moving abroad it seems they count equivalent years working and paying tax in the EU and some other countries like the US, Canada as being eligible towards counting to your total contributions, so no issue there if you work. If you move abroad to become tax resident in another country I'm not sure you can make voluntary contributions.

I read a bit of talk saying the brackets for calculating the state contributory pension are going to change to a simple 1/40 per year of contribution scheme anyway. Situations where you would get a massive benefit of paying voluntary contributions to make you into the next bracket would no longer occur.

The state pension is very generous and worth pursuing unless you are truly comfortable (about € 2-3 million maybe excluding your house?) And if you are unemployed then you should absolutely try to get on jobseekers or make voluntary contributions. At the current top rate of €248 per week, each 1/40 would be 322 per year, which is a bargain for a 500 payment. Obviously most people expect the amount paid to decrease and for the younger workers to get screwed, so that may change the calculation.

I don't see any limit on voluntary contributions, so it seems you can make them all the way until 66.


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## jpd (3 May 2021)

Capital gains are taxed in Germany as income - 25% plus Solidarity Tax 

There are not many countries in the EU, if any, that do not tax capital gains


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## Coconut Water (3 May 2021)

Cryptocurrency is not taxed as capital gains in Germany provided you hold for over a year


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