# I had tenants from hell! Can I claim losses and cleaners off landlords insurance?



## shootingstar (5 May 2010)

You may recall I posted a while back about having trouble with tenants. So, I finally got them out... 

I have a deposit of 700 belonging to them which wont cover my losses

They own me 400 rent. 
They smashed the bathroom window
There are 18 bags of rubbish outside and in the kitchen. 
They bust the front door lock and stole the keys to the other doors
They stole my TV
They stole an expensive lamp
They smashed another TV in the house
They destroyed the front room carpet with chewing gum
They stole every cup/pan/fork/knife etc

The list is endless..... 

I rang the gardai and they inspected the property for me stating the state of the house was a civil case but obviously there is theft involved. They are currently looking into things for me! 

I also rang my solicitor who informed me to get in touch with my insurance company. I did this and im still waiting on them to get back in tuoch with me. so i rang again this morning and they told me to stop ringing them that they would be in touch. 

Im in a bad way here as i cant get in cleaners until the insurance company has been to assess it all 

Can anyone tell me if all of the above is covered by Landlords insurance and if I can also claim from a professional cleaner on the insurance too...?

Beyond devasted


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## truthseeker (5 May 2010)

shootingstar - first of all - thats terrible, Im so sorry to hear that youve had such a bad experience.

Now - on the insurance company - ask your solicitor to phone them - might get more of a response.

Before you do anything else, take photographs, plenty of them, good quality, from as many angles and use a good flash. Video the place if you have access to a comcorder - that way if the insurance assessor is dragging his heels, you will at least have documented evidence if you decide to start a partial clean up. You can also pass the pics to the guards to help in a criminal damage case if there is going to be one.


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## shootingstar (5 May 2010)

this is good advise thank you. i have taken a ton of pictures yesterday but I didnt video it which I now definitely will. 

i`ll get my solicitor to have a word with the insurance broker. I still havent heard from them. Its ridiculous and im panicking in case im not covered. 

should I get PRTB involved? Are they usless / good? NEVER had to use them before


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## Towger (5 May 2010)

Look at it this way, they have gone and it could have been worse. Believe me we have had much worse. As per truthseeker, document the evidence, clean it up, try to get some action from the Guards & PRTB etc, and carry on. But don't keep worrying about it, it is all part of the business.


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## shootingstar (5 May 2010)

thanks towger. Im half nervous to bring in the cleaners in case the insurance tell me to buzz off etc... I assume this is the sort of thing that covers landlords insurance? Im panicking...


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## Towger (5 May 2010)

I don't know how much your insurance will cover and that the excess it. You have to weigh up the cost of the repairs/items eg €2k (tax deductable) vs what the insurance will pay out and the possibility of a increase next year.

It sounds as if you are renting out your own house rather then a buy to let etc. I would not supply the likes of a TV anything more expensive what you could pickup in your local DIY shed. I have even chuckedout TVs left by tennants on the grounds that if one is supplied and it breaks the next tennant will expect you to fix/replace it.


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## sam h (5 May 2010)

Believe me, I know how distressing this is.  Best of luck getting it sorted.

But +1 on not supplying a TV.  As mentioned you'd be liable for repairs etc and also the TV Licence.


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## truthseeker (5 May 2010)

shootingstar - I know this is advice is a bit like closing the barn door after the horse has bolted etc...

but when you DO have the place cleaned up and in rentable condition again, photograph and video it also - its a useful comparison for later.


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## Seagull (5 May 2010)

It probably is worth getting onto PRTB. If nothing else, it might protect someone else from these tenants. There is also the risk that they will be onto PRTB to get their deposit back unless you get your claim in first.


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## shootingstar (5 May 2010)

ill do time before ill part with a deposit! My solicitor has kindly informed me i cannot dump their rubbish in their garden (when i find them) because they can have me up on charges for it! Imagine that! Wheres the law - its their rubbish, they own it - all i wanted to do was return it to them


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## shootingstar (5 May 2010)

would this be a case for a small claims court would you think? I honestly cant afford to keep paying a solicitor?


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## sam h (5 May 2010)

You should not really need a solicitor.  Your best bet to to register a claim against them to the PRTB (you'll need som e sort of contact address for them, which I take it they did not furnish).

If you do go thru the PRTB, here is an interesting thread from Gebbel and his outcome with the PRTB 

If you don't have an address, i would still register the details with the PRTB about what happened - they'll tell you they can do nothing, but at least you will have details in should your tenant follow up.

I had something similar a year ago where they did a runner & left a mess & loads of bills.  I assume they went back home as they all took out various loans from different places.  I never thought to go through the insurance, but after the excess & hike that would have followed, i probably wouldn't have gone that road anyway.  Get it cleaned up & re-rented ASAP (as said with loads of before & after pics & videos) & chalk it up to experience


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## Hans (5 May 2010)

Don't know why your list doesn't shock me maybe it's 25 years of renting out properties. That would have been one of the bad ones but no way the worst I have come across.  One thing I would say to people that are starting to let out properties and more and more people are finding that they have to do so now, that you can't let it stress you out because in my experience people dont have the same respect for property that is not there own. As a previous poster said dont leave anything of any great value in the house and be prepared to have to 'gut' house when they move out.  Of course sometimes you are pleasantly surprised and you get the property back in the same state you gave it to them.


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## Marietta (5 May 2010)

In my own personal opinion, polish people make fantastic tenants and really respect and look after their rented properties.

My advise to anybody renting out houses is to seek references from previous landlords, it really is very very important.


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## frankor2 (5 May 2010)

As what i would call a professional landlord, i would advise you to:

1. Take as many pictures as possible and have your camera imprint the date
2. Get the property back in shape ASAP as you are losing rent each day it's empty
3. By all means put a claim in to the insurance company but from my experience and based on the limited financial info you give, i feel that the excess and impact on your claims history will put a realistic claim out of reach.
4. Submit a claim to the PRTB but make sure you have all your before and after photos and receipts for amounts you are claiming otherwise the prtb wont adjudicate in your favour.
5. List the property with an agent / DIY asap as one month's lost rent could be more than the total cost of the damage etc......


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## Steve D (5 May 2010)

I am sorry to hear about your problems. I hope you are able to recover some of it from the insurance company.

However, I would like to point out that you should never any electrical items, with the exception of a washing machine and a fridge, in a rented property. This is because if they are valuable they could be stolen and if the break down the tenant will be on the phone to you to get them repaired. 

Tenants should also be able to supply their own small items like kitchen utensils. I think that alot of them would prefer to use their own anyhow for hygiene reasons.


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## shootingstar (6 May 2010)

*update:* still no word from the insurance company. My solicitor is now goingot call them to put a bit of pressure on. I`m going to contact PRTB today. I have every last detail written down. 

I am also going to go to the property Saturday morning and video everything. I actually have some pictures of the house from last year before they rented it. I also took loads 2 days ago showing the mess/dirt/filth/damages etc.
I have contacted SW too and have put them in the picture that these tenants have cashed in their RA cheques and I havent benefited from them at all. 

things are a bit easier today... acceptance is a wonderful thing. however Im like a dog with a bone I wont be letting them away with it. I`ll be tracking them down this weekend, i have an idea as to where they are!


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## Seagull (6 May 2010)

If you do find them, be sure to let the gardai know so that they can follow up on the theft charges.


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## Oilean Beag (6 May 2010)

If they are Social Welfare tenants I'd also be informing SW office of the damage that they did and the condition that they left the place in. I know it won't get you anywhere but will flag their behaviour.


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## shootingstar (7 May 2010)

Further Update: 

Apparently Im not covered for ANY of the above. Landlords insurance only covers accidental damage. However my solicitor is currently awaiting a letter from them stating same. How can they refuse a claim without even looking at the property!? Strange...

Also the ESB... Grrr it was in someone elses name totally and nothing has been paid since last August. Looks like they got away with that too. However im still on the hunt for them & will definitely be letting the Gardai & SW know their wherabouts. I promised the ESB a forwarding address & copy of my Tenants Lease Agreement to state that they have been living there for that particular period of time. 

Once I find them ill find out who their new LL is and will happily show him video footage. 

Tiz all go, tiz all go....


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## Complainer (7 May 2010)

shootingstar said:


> I promised the ESB a forwarding address & copy of my Tenants Lease Agreement to state that they have been living there for that particular period of time.


You may be breaching Data Protection legislation by giving any information to the ESB.


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## Mel (7 May 2010)

Complainer said:


> You may be breaching Data Protection legislation by giving any information to the ESB.


 
Is there generally a clause in a private lease agreement precluding a landlord from using the information therein?


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## Complainer (7 May 2010)

Mel said:


> Is there generally a clause in a private lease agreement precluding a landlord from using the information therein?


It works the other way around. Unless there is a clause that notifies the tenant beforehand that their information might be given to ESB etc, then it would be illegal to pass over that information.


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## Mel (7 May 2010)

Complainer said:


> It works the other way around. Unless there is a clause that notifies the tenant beforehand that their information might be given to ESB etc, then it would be illegal to pass over that information.


 
Sometimes I despair - does the fact that the tenants provided false information to the ESB mean anything?


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## Complainer (7 May 2010)

Mel said:


> Sometimes I despair - does the fact that the tenants provided false information to the ESB mean anything?


It means nothing to the landlord's rights to release information. It is a matter between the tenant and the ESB I presume.


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## shootingstar (10 May 2010)

I dont care wether its illegal or not. i`ll be opening the bill when it arrives to have a look at how much is actually owed and once i have their address (which ill have tonight) ill be passing it on & if they wish to take me to court for breach of information (waffle waffle waffle) ill be happy to pop along to the court that day  Panicky but happy

Revenge is a dish.... 

Im much stronger this week thank god - im normally a pure pushover & way too nice (so my OH tells me) and thanks to him also because he`s pushing me to fight it all. 

SW have asked for a copy of the ESB bill which I have also told them ill give over

Im getting very brave LOL


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## Mel (10 May 2010)

shootingstar said:


> I dont care wether its illegal or not. i`ll be opening the bill when it arrives to have a look at how much is actually owed and once i have their address (which ill have tonight) ill be passing it on & if they wish to take me to court for breach of information (waffle waffle waffle) ill be happy to pop along to the court that day  Panicky but happy


 
I should think so too - with the string of problems following them I'm sure breach of data protection will be the least of their worries..


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## maureen2me (10 May 2010)

sorry to hear about that. at least it wasn't your family home they destroyed.


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## Complainer (19 May 2010)

Mel said:


> - with the string of problems following them I'm sure breach of data protection will be the least of their worries..


It won't be the tenant's worry at all - it will be the landlord's worry. Never underestimate the ability of people to play the system.


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## shootingstar (21 May 2010)

maybemaybe said:


> If your registered with the PRTB, I'd chase them. It'll take months, but you'll be successful. Absolute f*ckers...how dare they! Just wondering.....you did state to the Gardai that tv's etc were stolen. If you have a pulse number, what is to stop you claiming for the stolen goods via your insurance??....just a thought



My solicitor is now dealing with the Insurance co as they are still refusing to accept there is a claim. 

Im registered with the PRTB so ill contact them next week. The gardai has a copy of the Lease agreement that they signed along with a signed inventory of the house. I have underlined everything that was stolen and damaged. 

Its a slow process but I have all the time in the world.


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## shootingstar (24 May 2010)

battybrennan said:


> Why didn'tyou check out your tenants properly in the first place???  Could it be that if they're not living near yourself you don't care too much as long as they pay up the money??? If yes to this you're just like a lot of other landlords who just don't give a hoot about the people next door who have to put up with the idiots that are rented to by landlords such as yourself! In many cases along with this the grass is never cut 'till a new tenant is needed and the house poorly maintained if at all.



And I'd bet your probably just like my tenants!


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## Brendan Burgess (24 May 2010)

As this is getting tetchy, I am closing it. 

Brendan


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