# Eamonn Gilmores comments



## Whiskey (23 Nov 2010)

I'm not an economist.
Nonetheless, I was a bit upset with Eamonn Gilemores comments that we don't need to make the 6bn savings in our budget. If he were in power, he would want to make fewer cuts.

His rationale was to do with the fact that now we have the IMF loan, we don't need to make such big cuts.......we are not trying to impress markets anymore

I found his comments offensive. 

I am working now in the UK temporarily where the UK government have agreed to loan us 7 billion (money they don't have), and here is a man who could be the next Irish prime minister putting forward the logic that we don't need to make such big cuts.......

Can anyone put forward any economic rationale for Eamonn Gilmores comments, because I find them most offensive.


----------



## fobs (23 Nov 2010)

Votes!


----------



## missdaisy (23 Nov 2010)

I don't think there is an economc rationale.  The rationale is as fobs says - get more votes in an election! I hope he hasn't won further support with these statements.


----------



## chrisboy (23 Nov 2010)

Also some economists believe cuts of this scale will be detrimental to any possible growth in the economy, and that a not so large budget might help accelerate growth..


----------



## RonanC (23 Nov 2010)

Many economists have said that removing €6bn from the economy through cuts and tax increases will have a negitive impact on our economy next year. Eamonn is probably thinking that we can reduce this €6bn cut down to a more manageable cut of €4bn next year which should then allow for a reasonable amount of growth.


----------



## Latrade (23 Nov 2010)

Is there a link to the full comments?

Joan was saying something similar last night though, more to the effect that the severity of the cuts imposed in Greece has caused a much greater slowdown and slower recovery. 

The key term though is "imposed". We don't get the money unless we make the cuts in the plan.


----------



## fender (23 Nov 2010)

I fear Labour being in government as they will be in cahots with the unions and will fail to make the public service cuts, social welfare and minimum wage cuts that are needed. 

These cuts will have a domino effect on private sector wages, food prices etc etc. Without these cuts we will remain uncompetitive and receive no inward investment.

FG and Labour do not have the interest of the country at heart looking for an immediate election. The Banks and Euro are in danger of collapsing and all they can do is squabble. This budget has to pass.


----------



## Sunny (23 Nov 2010)

We haven't got any loan yet and we won't get it without the €6 billion in cuts. This is the real world Eamonn you are playing in now, not the opposition benches.


----------



## TLC (23 Nov 2010)

Fender - Cahoots with the unions - if it wasn't for unions we'd all be working for absolutely nothing.  It's all very well again blaming the PS, social welfare & minimum wage but those people did not cause this & are not still living in their mansions & driving their mercedes.  Why not start with the outrageous pensions being paid to ex-ministers (the pensions these people are getting is obscene), bankers & then talk about those other people.  There is no point in punishing people who through no fault of their own have been made unemployed & if we have to start punishing the disabled then we really have reached a new low.  This government have brought us to this point - let them go & have a new group to at least make some semblance of getting the best deal they can for us all.  Every piece of information, every decision they have taken during this crisis has been wrong!  This government should be made redundant.  The only thing FF has at it's rotten heart is to remain in power - they are totally out of touch with just how angry people are.  We gave them our votes & our trust & they have betrayed us all they should go go go!


----------



## RonanC (23 Nov 2010)

Sunny said:


> We haven't got any loan yet and we won't get it without the €6 billion in cuts. This is the real world Eamonn you are playing in now, not the opposition benches.


 
The EU and IMF have to bail us out. The Eurozone, the Euro currency and German & French investment banks depend on the bailout. We could stick two fingers up to the EU and IMF, jump ship from the Euro, create our own currency again and align it to the Pound as before. I personally prefer if we stay within the common euro currency and market. 

Who has said that we need to cut by €6bn next year? A €15bn 4 year cut has been promised and it can be achieved. Who says it cannot be a 5 year plan (€3bn a year) with all of the reforms introduced as promised too? Cutting our economy by €6bn will have such a devistating impact on everyone and our economy will not grow. This will leave us in an even greater hole, with bigger cuts in the near future. 

Let the country and the economy grow naturally next year, let us target more multi-national companies and reduce the unemployment figures, more people off the dole and paying tax means more money in the coffers and reducing our deficit too.


----------



## frankmac (23 Nov 2010)

Does anyone else foresee problems with a FG/Lab coalition where Enda agrees with €6 billion cuts and Eamonn thinks it should be €4 billion?


----------



## fender (23 Nov 2010)

TLC - I agree with you wholeheartedly that FF should go. However, now is not the time for an election as the budget, which the IMF have had a heavy hand, has to pass or we do not get this loan. Than banks and Euro are in danger of collapsing while politicians are shuffling for position for their own ends.

I also agree with you that all the rot and outrageous pensions have to be rooted out. Why are the Seanie Fitzpatricks not jailed like Bernie Madoff? People across the spectrum need to pay prorata - that is the reality now. How do we become competitive if minimum wage is not lowered? Do you not agree what everything else then falls into line and we can start to become competitive again as a nation?

The biggest problem now is who to vote for when the time comes............


----------



## TLC (23 Nov 2010)

The way things are in FF the Labour/FG coalition may be our only way forward - FF are all deserting the sinking ship as it is, they are turning on each other & their leader (it's actually quite funny to see them blaming Brian Cowan as if they played no hand or part in anything!) - never mind the Greens they're a spent force, but of course they only supported FF for the good of the country - what a laugh!


----------



## TLC (23 Nov 2010)

Fender - I do agree with your comments regarding cuts which will have to be made & people are not so stupid that we don't accept that we will all have to give & probably keep giving for a long time to come.  I also agree that the rot of the people who made this mess still screwing the country have to be dealt with now.  If we don't do it now it will never happen.  But I still think that cuts to the lowest paid in society are outrageous - I know all about the wage cuts I've taken them myself.  But people who are genuinely on the edge of poverty - what will happen to them?  There is no easy answer to that, but we can't discard these people. The time for an election probably isn't now - at least not according to our new masters - but can anyone really be confident that FF will make the right decisions - they haven't so far.  They haven't even dealt with the bankers - individuals I mean - look at Fingleton - a joke! I know that people are saying just get on with the situation we are in now & forget about how we got here, but if anyone saw the programme lastnight on the AIB/ICI situation in the 80's (not FF I might add) they will realise that 1. we learned nothing over that & 2. People were not made accountable.  Deja vu - here we are.


----------



## Sunny (23 Nov 2010)

RonanC said:


> Let the country and the economy grow naturally next year, let us target more multi-national companies and reduce the unemployment figures, more people off the dole and paying tax means more money in the coffers and reducing our deficit too.


 
And maybe we will find a crock of gold at the end of the rainbow....


----------



## RonanC (23 Nov 2010)

Sunny said:


> And maybe we will find a crock of gold at the end of the rainbow....


 
What to you propose? More smart and useless comments?


----------



## lightswitch (23 Nov 2010)

The IMF are not doing Ireland a favour by lending us whatever billion it turns out we need.  They are propping up the Euro as a currency and loans that have been made to Ireland from mostly German but also other European banks.  

The British Government are doing the same with their offer of 7 billion, with regard to loans from UK banks to Irish Banks.  

This very much looks like another example of sub prime lending to me.  As a solution this will not work for anyone long term.

Cash needs to be flowing in and out of SME's.  The reduction of 6 billion will have the opposite effect.  The mind boggles as to why anyone would think this could actually work.  I reckon a lot of people, leaders included are running around in a blind panic grasping at straws.

The black economy must be really booming in Ireland right now,  as people get lower social welfare payments / minimum wage they will have little options available to them other than to join it...................... Remember the 80's anyone?


----------



## elcato (23 Nov 2010)

> Remember the 80's anyone?


Vaguely, drink was always great for sorting out things then. Think I emigrated at some stage cos I remember living in Crooklewood and Hallyway and some other places like Sinnyside in Kings.


----------



## Sunny (23 Nov 2010)

RonanC said:


> What to you propose? More smart and useless comments?



I propose doing what we intend doing and not rely on wishing that multinational companies will decide to move en mass to a near bankrupt country and create thousands of jobs and hope that everything will be ok. I propose doing what the EU and IMF want because I trust them more than I do than our own politicians. And that says it all.


----------



## RonanC (23 Nov 2010)

Sunny said:


> I propose doing what we intend doing and not rely on wishing that multinational companies will decide to move en mass to a near bankrupt country and create thousands of jobs and hope that everything will be ok. I propose doing what the EU and IMF want because I trust them more than I do than our own politicians. And that says it all.


 
But wasn't it our own government who has divised the 4 year plan? If we are to believe them, the EU and IMF had no input into the figures, but simply agreed that they should work. But let me make this point, *the EU and IMF are bailing us out to prop the EURO up and to make sure that the German & French investment banks dont suffer losses on their investments in Irish banks and bonds. *

If we believe some of the analysts in the UK, this country (with the exception of the banking and construction industries) is doing pretty well. We have had a growth in exports of 6% on last year. We are now more competitive than ever, we have a young, well educated and highly skilled workforce. We also have a "guarantee" that our corporation tax will remain at 12.5%. If all of the above are true, why wouldnt we be able to target multi-national companies like we did in the 90's and create 1000's of jobs? 

So let's take your suggestion of ploughing ahead with the plan, give in to the demands from Brussels and Frankfurt, allow a Government who have had their last laugh to bully and lie to us one final time and dont allow the people have their say on what should be done for the good of this great country. Do you really believe that cutting €6bn next year when we really dont need to will solve our economic woes in the short term? Wouldn't a €4bn - €4.5bn cut be more manageable?


----------



## dahamsta (23 Nov 2010)

frankmac said:


> Does anyone else foresee problems with a FG/Lab coalition where Enda agrees with €6 billion cuts and Eamonn thinks it should be €4 billion?



It's not a problem, it's politics. In fact you've very nearly blundered into a definition of the concept.


----------

