# Cost for solar panel installation



## riddles (5 Jun 2013)

hi,

I got a quote for the entire kit for a solar panel kit of just under 2K
the system is a firebird system
FIREBIRD SOL822KIT 20 TUBE HEAT PIPE KIT

How much should I expect to pay for the installation of a system only?

thanks,

R


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## Palerider (5 Jun 2013)

What will that do for you, hot water year round or more ?


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## riddles (5 Jun 2013)

Hot water I suppose from April through to September - hopefully during times when heating is used minimally.
At the moment as I have no heating running there is no hot water without emersion or burning oil.


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## serotoninsid (5 Jun 2013)

Carry out an accurate payback period calculation before proceeding.


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## riddles (5 Jun 2013)

found this on a previous post - would this still be accurate?
allowing 300€ per year water heating costs.
2K parts + 1K installation - ten years pay back time assuming no energy inflation which seems unlikely.

There are two adults and two small children in my house. For five months a year we use electricty to heat water and the rest of the time the oil fired central heating provides all we need. 

The summer months make the calculations very clear. A typical weekly consumption would be:

8.5kW shower. Two * 5 minute showers per day = 10kWh per week
3 kW immersion for children baths. 45 mins per day 4 times per week = 9 kWh per week
3 kW kettle to boil water for dishes and cleaning. 4 mins to boil used 3 times daily = 4kWh per week

Total for one week = 23kWh.

I have no idea of the winter oil useage for the same amount of hot water but assuming a similar cost to the electricty we're looking at approximately €200 per year for hot water.

Based on figures above (3.2K to install a system that provides 50% of hot water), I'd be looking at a 32 year payback! No thanks.


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## quentingargan (6 Jun 2013)

A twenty tube system is quite modest really. Does this include VAT? If you do it this way, you won't be eligible for the SEAI grant, so you might get a cheap system, but you have no comeback on the installer (who may point the finger at the hardware if something goes wrong). 

Generally, where a solar hot water system has failed, it has almost always been an installer issue where the installer didn't understand the particular system. 

There are companies offering 20 tube systems *installed* which will cost €2500 after the grant has been refunded. (for example , but there are others if you look around). 

Personally I would look to a professional installer who has done the SEAI training and is subject to the warranty imposed by SEAI rather than do a mix-and-match. The only reason to buy hardware separately is if you understand the systems yourself and want to self-install - then you can save a few bob.


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## Optimistic (6 Jun 2013)

quentingargan said:


> A twenty tube system is quite modest really. Does this include VAT? If you do it this way, you won't be eligible for the SEAI grant, so you might get a cheap system, but you have no comeback on the installer (who may point the finger at the hardware if something goes wrong).
> 
> Generally, where a solar hot water system has failed, it has almost always been an installer issue where the installer didn't understand the particular system.
> 
> ...


 
With the risk of offending some people here, the following has been my experience, which has cost me money. I am not a technical guy qualified in this area, only what experience has taught me.
In my experience an SEAI approved installer or supplier for that matter doesn't matter a hill of beans. Once someone goes off and does a day's course they are approved, SEAI says all is ok. When it comes to solar heating, you get what you pay for. Compare the output (all systems are measured against a standard) between the various suppliers and it is pretty eye opening, the variations are massive. In my experience there are only a couple of systems with high output and they are the more expensive options. I now have tubes and while very happy with them and the performance, I do query the payback. Obviously hitting high temps these days. Did you not consider looking at pv electric panels and connect into your DHW cylinder? Just a thought, but I don't know much about pv systems. all the best.


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## quentingargan (6 Jun 2013)

Optimistic said:


> With the risk of offending some people here, the following has been my experience, which has cost me money. I am not a technical guy qualified in this area, only what experience has taught me.
> In my experience an SEAI approved installer or supplier for that matter doesn't matter a hill of beans. Once someone goes off and does a day's course they are approved, SEAI says all is ok. When it comes to solar heating, you get what you pay for. Compare the output (all systems are measured against a standard) between the various suppliers and it is pretty eye opening, the variations are massive. In my experience there are only a couple of systems with high output and they are the more expensive options. I now have tubes and while very happy with them and the performance, I do query the payback. Obviously hitting high temps these days. Did you not consider looking at pv electric panels and connect into your DHW cylinder? Just a thought, but I don't know much about pv systems. all the best.



I agree fully about the SEAI courses. I used to teach on one in CIT where we maintained high standards, but some of the private operators in the sector were poor enough. Caveat emptor applies everywhere, but SEAI approval is better than man-in-van who has no training at all, and if there are quality complaints with SEAI systems, you can get struck off. 

You are also quite right about getting a proper computer simulation of the output of the system you propose to install. This can be done based on the certified output. Again though, some operators will bamboozle you with figures that suit their products. For example a popular one is ignoring incidence angle modifier on solar tubes (see http://passivehouseplus.ie/blogs/ch...-efficient-than-figures-at-first-suggest.html)

I sell and design solar PV systems, but I can't really recommend retrofitting it on an existing house in the current market, because the feed in tariff for power exported (9c here compared to 16p in the UK) just doesn't make it worthwhile. It isn't easy to make a PV panel work an immersion because to work efficiently, the panel needs voltage regulation or power point tracking. You can't easily just put into the immersion what your panel is producing, so you would end up exporting most of your power for 9c and then buying it back for your immersion heater at 16c.


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## riddles (6 Jun 2013)

so if 20 tubes is not enough does this mean defaulting to 40?

thanks

R


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## quentingargan (6 Jun 2013)

riddles said:


> so if 20 tubes is not enough does this mean defaulting to 40?
> 
> thanks
> 
> R



Or maybe 30. But it all depends on your hot water usage, roof orientation and pitch, distance to cylinder etc. That's partly why a computer simulation based on your location, roof orientation and hot water requirements is a useful exercise.


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## hadit2here (11 Aug 2013)

i got 18 tubes(area 2.84m2) and 300litre tank, it cost 4.5K, then we got about 850euro back on grant. that was in March 2011. it took 2 days to fit it.

it gives us hot water from mid march to start september . in this period we might switch on the gas boiler maybe three times for about 10 minutes each time to top up the heat, but this would be rare.

as noone is in the house during the day, there is no run on the water and it usually hor enough when we get home.

outside of that period, it takes the chill out of the water, so the boiler isnt on as long as normal.

there are 2/3 people in the house. roof direction was perfect for us.

if you get a bigger tank, you are heating more water so might not get high enough temp.... so a trade off. depends on how people in the house like their showers etc and whether you wait till the evening to wash dishes etc

Last year we worked out payback time to be about 40 months... but i cant find my calculations for this now

the one thing i find annoying is, that having a gas boiler , we still pay standing charge, PSO levy and VAT on top of that.... so I will look into replacing that boiler with something else.... maybe pellet burner.... or oil or ... dunno


overall I am very happy with my decision.


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