# Question on central heating



## DazzaMazza (8 Jan 2014)

Sorry, Im somewhat of a newbie when it comes to central heating. I have a question that you might help with.

1. My house has two thermostats, one up and one down. Am I correct in assuming that the house is then zoned (two zones in my case) and that a smarter heating controller might let me choose which zone to heat (rather than heating the two)

2. I have an old standard timer that you find in most houses. It only allows two settings, no multi-day control or zones etc. Is it a big deal in terms of time and cost to replace and who would carry out this (electrician or plumber?). I have seen a few wireless style systems and they look like they might fit the bill
[broken link removed]

Sorry I know these may seem daft but having invested in a replacement condenser boiler  while back, I feel that I have little or no control over the system and I need to upgrade.

Any info appreciated!

Dan


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## stephnyc (9 Jan 2014)

I recently got climote installed & love it! (no connection to the company, just my own geeky excitement!) - this was to replace a really old timer (you know the ones that you move the little clicks?)

You can set each zone to come on for 3 separate times a day (or just set to come on for an hour etc) - each day can have a different setting. We are currently using the app to turn on/off the heat when away from home, but apparently this is just as easy by text. It was around €300 and they were great to deal with!


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## DazzaMazza (9 Jan 2014)

Thanks for that. Yes I had a look at that system. It looks nice but I'm not that enamoured with the annual fee for the SMS connectivity. If it was a WIFI unit with a higher initial fee then I'd jump at the idea although my inner geek is also trying to convince me to purchase it. 
Thanks for taking the time to reply, I very much appreciate it!


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## Leo (9 Jan 2014)

Even better so, buy the LightwaveRF WiFi link and a three way relay module and you'll have it for a lot less (around €130) and no annual charge. You can then expand the system over time to control lighting, sockets, and pretty much anything else around the home. The Climote is way too expensive for what it offers. Maplin, Amazon and others sell the LightwaveRF devices.

Other options are the Belkin WeMo and Insteon devices. The Insteon devices work in a similar way to the LightwaveRF in that they require a hub for remote control while you're away from home, and are a little more expensive than the Lightwave devices. The Belkin devices don't require an external hub, but they have limited options available and each device is more expensive.


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## stephnyc (9 Jan 2014)

thanks Leo, fascinating idea!


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## Buddyboy (9 Jan 2014)

Before you go off the deep end with wireless controls etc. (not that there's anything wrong with them), I'd step back a little.

At the moment, all you know is that you have two thermostats, and an old standard timer. I assume it is the old On/Off/Timed switch with a dial above it that allows 15min intervals.

It sounds like an abnormal setup, in that if you have two thermostats, then you would normally have a programmable control box for the zones that are controllled by the thermostats (from your post I infer that you know this).

So I wonder who put in the thermostats and why? (if they didn't put in a corresponding control box.)

One thought struck me, that the thermostats could be wired in series, i.e. if either setting is reached, then the heat turns off.  Remember, all a thermostat is is an on/off switch that is operated by tempreture. I've never heard of it, but then again, I'm not a plumber (and maybe the person who put it in wasn't either  )

I also haven't heard of just a thermostat controlling a zone, it is normally the controller that does so (but I'm open to correction). I assume it is possible, if a bit odd.

So, if I was you, the first thing I would do is establish if you have the two zones.  To do this you will have to find the exposed heating pipes, normally either in with the immersion tank, or in a cupboard near the boiler.  By looking at how many valves you have you will get an indication of the number of circuits or zones. By how they are turned on/off (either a red lever or a mechanical/electrical valve) you will know if they are operated by hand or if a control was fitted which would normally lead back to the control box mentioned earlier.

Once you establish what you have, then you can plan a course of action depending on your starting point, cost, level of difficulty, value of gain you'll get (e.g. if it is small house with one zone currently, it may not be worth the effort to put in two zones - a couple of TRVs would be cheaper and almost as effective).

I don't want to suggest any course of action without getting more information on what you have.


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## Leo (9 Jan 2014)

Buddyboy said:


> Before you go off the deep end with wireless controls etc. (not that there's anything wrong with them), I'd step back a little.



Good point, something as simple as this timer might do all that's required here. But it is nice being able to turn on the heating remotely before I head home


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## Buddyboy (9 Jan 2014)

I'm a bit of a contradiction, a luddite-gadget freak if you will.

The irony is I work in IT, and spend my time convincing people that they _don't _need technology.

I read up and investigate all the gadgets/wireless/new technologies etc (have you seen the new curved OLED TVs WOW!) and then realise I don't really need them and am just making things far more complicated than is needed.

I have a three zone controller in the house, and replaced the thermostats for the underfloor heating in the the living rooms and kitchen with programmable thermostats to get the best of both worlds. 

I programed the heating and just need to hit boost every now and again

I looked at all the wireless and x-10 controls for music, heating, lights, mood lighting, etc. wen we renovated but decided it was too much kibble.  The reality is I come home, turn on the radio, and leave it on.  I don't need to stream or control music etc. from other rooms in the house, as the bedroom has a radio alarmclock. I don't need to remotely turn on or off lights - when we go on holidays I just use a few plug in timers to set a few lamps. 

Maybe my life is too predictable.


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## Leo (10 Jan 2014)

Buddyboy said:


> I read up and investigate all the gadgets/wireless/new technologies etc (have you seen the new curved OLED TVs WOW!) and then realise I don't really need them and am just making things far more complicated than is needed.


 
I tend to start where you end up and work back to try to convince myself I do need them


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## DazzaMazza (12 Jan 2014)

Thanks for the feedback guys. The two thermostats are connected to motorised valves in the hot press. They control up and downstairs. The 'timer' allows us to turn off and on the heating and we can heat the water seperatly but we can't control the two zones or control via 7 days etc.


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## Buddyboy (13 Jan 2014)

DazzaMazza said:


> Thanks for the feedback guys. The two thermostats are connected to motorised valves in the hot press. They control up and downstairs. The 'timer' allows us to turn off and on the heating and we can heat the water seperatly but we can't control the two zones or control via 7 days etc.


 
Then you are in luck my friend   (and it is set up in the way that I thought odd in my other post - you learn something new every day (and by odd, I don't necessarily mean wrong - just not as effecient as it could be))

The simplest way to control/program the heating is to replace the two thermostats with two programmable thermostats.  This gives you the 7 day, programmable control and requires no rewiring or other mess. It should be a 1/2 hour job.

Now comes the warning.....you need to know what you're doing. The thermostats will be either 12v or 240v.  if 240v you are dealing with stuff that has the ability to kill you stone dead!  If you are in any way unsure then you should get a qualified electrician to do the work.

The voltage will be printed somewhere, probably on the motorised heads of the zone valves.

Here is a link to an example of the programmable thermostat I mean. They are the same as I used to replace my thermostats.

http://www.heatmiser.com/index.php/thermostats/slimline-thermostats-series

As you can see, they have 12v and 230v, (and new sexy touchscreen models).

So, what you do is replace the thermostats with the correct programmable one, and then set the heating switch (the one with the dial timer) to ON. The programmable switches now control the two zones. 


This requres a different mindset -the heating is never "off" as such, it is just set to a lower temprature - so it doesn't need to come on.

The only other issue is you will have to have some way of controlling the immersion/hot water. As the heating will always be "ON", you will have some way of turning it on/off for hot water heating.  I don't have enough information at the moment to know the best method of doing this, but on what you have given me, putting a seperate clock timer in would do it. this will require a knowledge of wiring/electricity.

So you will now have three events that will actually start the boiler
1. Downstairs thermostat setting is higher than ambient downstairs temprature
2. Upstairs termostat setting is higher than ambient upstairs temprature
3. (Seperate) Timer for Water heating is turned on.

Hope this helps.


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## DazzaMazza (13 Jan 2014)

Brilliant!! Thanks for all of the feedback!


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