# CAI launches "class action" against Ulster Bank



## SinKav1 (30 Jul 2012)

_I have moved this post from the thread on the future of the CAI as it's primarily about Ulster Bank - Brendan_

The CAI is planning facilitating a class action against Ulster Bank according to a new press release. 

PRESS RELEASE

The Consumers’ Association of Ireland (CAI) UB ‘Class Action’ Initiative

Our CEO reported in the course of a Morning Ireland interview that there were some 3000 + complaints advised to the CAI with regard to Ulster Bank problems & difficulties.

The comment referring specifically to the CAI, in context of our telephone outage, was that most of the CAI complaints were through emailed comment.

However, not referred to were all sources of CAI complaints. The Association has, of necessity and through it’s Chairman and CEO , over years forged a large network of contacts and interaction with consumers and their representatives as well as reliable media, and industry sources that we canvassed and who relayed the level, estimates and area of complaints they were receiving and which the CAI undertook to highlight and act upon. This we are now committing to taking further.

What is of concern to the CAI is that third parties have sought to denigrate the extreme difficulties of consumers of the service of Ulster Bank by suggesting the level of complaint was overstated by the CAI. It was not. It is clear that many consumers affected by the system failure are not direct customers of Ulster Bank but are nonetheless impacted. We are now concerned that the figures are higher than countenanced. In addition, we now have very real concerns that the realities and compensatable faults and responsibilities of the bank, as well as the lack of Central Bank activity, are being actively and maliciously diminished in value by third parties.

Therefore, by way of independently and actively determining that this cannot happen the CAI is today requesting that all consumers, whether they be customers of Ulster Bank or otherwise, advise:

the detail of their loss, their interaction with their bank and the Ulster Bank to date the offer of refund and assistance –current and future- together with compensation offered and/or received-directly by email cai@thecai.ie or send by letter post to 43-44 Chelmsford Road, Ranelagh,Dublin6 in order that the Association can compile a comprehensive file for presentation to the Department of Finance, the Central Bank, the National Consumer Agency, the Irish Bankers Federation and the Ulster Bank and in order that full transparent and definitive understanding of the losses and response to those losses can be determined for further consideration and, where deemed necessary, further action.

We will also upload a template on our website which consumers can simply provide the basic information and, should they wish, make additional relevant comments.

The Consumers’ Association of Ireland will guarantee anonymity and that we will respect the requirements and rights of consumers under data protection requirements.

This will be the first ‘class action’ type initiative undertaken that will, we hope, offer future opportunities for a Group Action procedure to be established in Ireland.

The Consumers’ Association of Ireland will meet with the Ulster Bank at the earliest opportunity to explore how we can assist in bringing this difficult situation to a positive conclusion on behalf of all banking customers affected.


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## Complainer (30 Jul 2012)

I thought that there was no legal structure to support a legal class action in Ireland?


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## jhegarty (30 Jul 2012)

There isn't anything like a class action in Irish law.


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## Time (30 Jul 2012)

Jewell has been watching too many American films. 

There is no such thing as a class action in Ireland. All claims must be brought separately.


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## Brendan Burgess (31 Jul 2012)

By putting "class action" in inverted commas, I think that the press release makes it quite clear that they understand that there is no such legal avenue in Ireland. 



> This will be the first ‘class action’ type initiative undertaken that  will, we hope, offer future opportunities for a Group Action procedure  to be established in Ireland.



It is written very badly, but the idea of co-ordinating customers and non-customers of Ulster Bank is a good one.  It's the type of stuff that the CAI should be focussing on and not wasting their money comparing the different facilities of washing machines.


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## Complainer (31 Jul 2012)

I'm not sure I'd want to give confidential details to an organisation that has just cut most of their admin staff. It sounds like a rushed, ill-considered measure. What value can CAI add? Can UB deal with CAI on individual cases, even if customers give permission? What liability would CAI bear if a UB customer is unhappy with the outcome? Or if their data goes missing?


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## Calico (31 Jul 2012)

Complainer said:


> I'm not sure I'd want to give confidential details to an organisation that has just cut most of their admin staff. It sounds like a rushed, ill-considered measure. What value can CAI add? Can UB deal with CAI on individual cases, even if customers give permission? What liability would CAI bear if a UB customer is unhappy with the outcome? Or if their data goes missing?



I have to agree. By its own admission the CAI is struggling to survive and seeking a bailout from the government. I'm all for class actions, but having read the press release, it seems like a desperate attempt to get some free publicity. By all means lets keep the pressure up on Ulster Bank, but the CAI should really be focusing on its own financial problems right now.


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## Knuttell (31 Jul 2012)

Its just gone beyond embarrassing at this stage,a line has been crossed,there is a sign post up ahead *Desperation 2 miles.*

I do not want this individual representing me in any way shape or form,if need be I will take a class action to prevent it...oh wait,I don't live in Americay.

_



			The chief executive of the Consumers’ Association of Ireland, Dermott Jewell, said the bank’s apologies were completely insufficient and it would need to financially compensate affected customers.

“It must come up with a meaningful goodwill gesture both by way of apology and as a calming measure,” he said.

He suggested that the bank could abandon plans to introduce charges on its current accounts or freeze all ATM charges for a period.
		
Click to expand...

_
Totally lost me here when he called on UB to freeze all ATM charges,UB do not have Bank fees full stop,as a consumer affairs advocate,you would expect he would know this or at least inform himself fully before opening his yapper to the press and letting rip.


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## Knuttell (5 Aug 2012)

Article in Sunday Times where they report the CAI are selling off their HQs in Ranelagh to raise money,the thing that struck me in this article they mentioned the CAI was a registered charity,how were they given charity status?

Can someone explain this?


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## Brendan Burgess (5 Aug 2012)

Hi Knuttell 

Whatever you and I think about the way the CAI is run, it is clearly a charity. 

Under Revenue rules, to qualify as a charity, it must have one or more of the following objectives: 

      Relief of Poverty
         Advancement of Education
       Advancement of Religion
              [FONT=&quot]Other works of a charitable nature beneficial to the community.  [/FONT]

So their work should be beneficial to the community and it is also the advancement of education. 

Brendan


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## Calico (6 Aug 2012)

There is an excellent post on the subject from data protection expert Daragh O'Brien here: http://obriend.info/

He suggests that CAI's campaign could be both misleading and illegal.


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## Sunny (6 Aug 2012)

Knuttell said:


> Totally lost me here when he called on UB to freeze all ATM charges,UB do not have Bank fees full stop,as a consumer affairs advocate,you would expect he would know this or at least inform himself fully before opening his yapper to the press and letting rip.



Actually they do. U-first account holders pay monthly charges.


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## Knuttell (7 Aug 2012)

Sunny said:


> Actually they do. U-first account holders pay monthly charges.



They pay a flat rate monthly fee,they do not pay ATM charges.UB do not charge or have fees for ATM withdrawal.


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## kimmage (7 Aug 2012)

Locus standi has been granted in Ireland to various bodies to bring an actio popularis in respect of "class type actions".  The word class is not to be found in these cases but the Ward & NBRU v Bus Eireann is an example where the court allowed the union take a case on behalf of its 600 odd members.

- Digital Rights Ireland Limited -v- Minister for Communication [2010] IEHC 221
- Irish Penal Reform Trust -v- Governor of Mountjoy Prison, High Court, 2 Sept. 2005
- Ward and NBRU -v- Bus Eireann [1997] 2 IR 424
- SPUC -v- Coogan [1989] IR 295


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## Time (7 Aug 2012)

The word is members. Most people would not be members of the CAI so no legal standing exists.

Also the data protection issues would see this off fairly quickly.


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## kimmage (7 Aug 2012)

Time said:


> The word is members. Most people would not be members of the CAI so no legal standing exists.
> 
> Also the data protection issues would see this off fairly quickly.



Ward and NBRU -v- Bus Eireann

"Even if the union was not suing in a representative capacity, I would be very slow to conclude that it could not maintain proceedings"

See also Digital Rights Ireland Limited -v- Minister for Communication 

"It would be an effective way to bring the action - individual owners of mobile phones would be unlikely to litigate the matter"


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