# Elderly relative and money



## unsurewhatto (17 Dec 2007)

Hi All 

Ive an elderly relative in her late 80's who has been quite sick for a while now. She has been in and out of hospital on numerous occasions within the last 2 months.

Last Week she suprised us all by demanding to withdraw a large amount of cash from her bank account ( in excess of €40,000). Yes it is her money and of course she is entitled to it but recently we have had one or two concerns of late as her personality has totally changed.

The area where she lives is very rough and houses are constanty being broken into. 

We feel that she is being coerced into doing this by one of her neighbour, we found out last month that this very same neighbour had advised her not to pay her house and life insurance and it wasnt worth it. Thankfully, much to the neighbours annoyance, she let it slip and we are now paying it.

We have tried telling her that having this much money in the house is extremely dangerous (as too many people on her road now know about it and believe me give them the opportunity and they will gladly take it.)

Basically what I would like to to know is: 

(1) should we get her the money in cash?

(2) Should we seek advice from the Gardai and a Solicitor?

(3) Is there anywhere else we should go to seek advice on this matter?


Thanking you in advance.


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## z109 (17 Dec 2007)

unsurewhatto said:


> Basically what I would like to to know is:
> 
> (1) should we get her the money in cash?
> 
> ...


1. I would be very reluctant to do this.
2. Yes. The solicitor may suggest setting up a ward of court, which, in the absence of a power of attorney may be your only option.
3. Talk to the bank, explain your worries to them. Many local branches do have the interests of their customers in mind and will try not to let them be defrauded. They can put in a max limit withdrawal (even without all the necessary paperwork); whether they will or not is another question!

You may also want to talk to her doctor to see about a cognitive test in case age-related dementia is a factor.

You can also talk to her about her financial concerns. She may be scared by the neighbour or just what she hears on the news about banking collapse (e.g. Northern Rock). In this case, splitting the money among several banks might be helpful, or setting up a rabodirect or other internet banking account for her - she won't have direct access to the money and you can print off statements regularly to show her it is safe and earning money!

If you don't have any power of attorney in place, it will be difficult, so you will have to be creative in keeping the money secure for her longer term health. It's difficult, but it can be done!


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## Flymask (17 Dec 2007)

unsurewhatto said:


> If you don't have any power of attorney in place...



yogan - you appear to know about these things!! As it may also be of relevance to the OP, can you explain the difference between Power of Attorney and Enduring Power of Attorney, particularly as it applies to an elderly person who is possibly showing early signs of cognitive problems such as dementia or Alzheimer's?


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## z109 (17 Dec 2007)

Flymask said:


> yogan - you appear to know about these things!! As it may also be of relevance to the OP, can you explain the difference between Power of Attorney and Enduring Power of Attorney, particularly as it applies to an elderly person who is possibly showing early signs of cognitive problems such as dementia or Alzheimer's?


Er, I'll do my best! (Not a legal person, but have a relative with Alzheimer's).

A power of attorney is in force from the time it is written.

An enduring power of attorney is enforceable at a future date through the courts when the person become incapacitated in their decision making and so would not be capable of making the informed decision for a power of attorney. 

So one of them applies immediately and the other is deferred until conditions require it (which might be never).

There is also, I believe, some sort of enduring care attorney thing, that gives the authority for an attorney to make medical and care decisions (as opposed to financial decisions) for the person.

All three require informed consent, i.e. the person submitting to them must be of sound mind at the time they give their consent. This is supported by a doctor's certificate to that effect. If the person is unable to give consent, then making them a ward of court is, as far as I know, the only other option available.


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## unsurewhatto (17 Dec 2007)

Hey thanks for the very fast replys.

I actually got some the details wrong (as there's a few of us in the family trying to get advice on this)

Another relative of mine has a cheque for the money already and it wasn't in a bank it was in the post office. Does this change things at all?

Getting her to see a doctor will be extremely difficult. Im thinkin that the next step would be to see advice from a solicitor

Would you agree this


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## Flymask (17 Dec 2007)

unsurewhatto said:


> Another relative of mine has a cheque for the money already ..... Does this change things at all?



Well, it certainly begs the question; Who is the cheque made payable to?


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## z109 (17 Dec 2007)

unsurewhatto said:


> Hey thanks for the very fast replys.
> 
> I actually got some the details wrong (as there's a few of us in the family trying to get advice on this)
> 
> ...


Is there an internal family conflict or just the usual overlapping concerns?

If the money is already drawn (in the form of a cheque), there is no point in approaching the PO.

Yes, a solicitor at this point would be your safest bet.


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## unsurewhatto (18 Dec 2007)

Theres no real family conflict, we are all very concerned about her having such a large amount of cash in her house and the whole of the street will know about it.

No too sure who the cheque is made out to, could probably fond that out.

We went to see the citizens information bureau about it yesterday and they told us under no circumstances should we give her the money as we would be putting her life in danger. 

They also advised us to seek advise from a solicitor but said that that if she's gone past the point of mental competance than theres probably very little we can do.

I know im moving away from a financial angle and more to a legal direction on this but I just want to hear some opinions on it.

Thanks again to everyone who replied.


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## z109 (18 Dec 2007)

If there's no family conflict then get everyone together and talk through your options. Make sure everyone is in agreement about what is to be done. Whether you need to write down and sign this to avoid conflict later depends on your family! (I know in mine in relation to another relative it is ending very badly!).


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## homeowner (18 Dec 2007)

Is there any chance one of you can have her live with you for a while?  Sounds like she is alone and at that age with her mental capabilities diminishing it might not be the best to have her living in a rough neighbourhood on her own.  Even if she doenst have 40K in cash in her house, sounds like she is easy pickings for some scumbag to break into her house and rob her.


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