# Revenue solicitor charging VAT



## WizardDr (26 Jul 2011)

Is anybody aware that the Revenue Solicitor appears to charge VAT in Court Cases where they are seeking their costs.

Can this be correct?


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## T McGibney (26 Jul 2011)

Why not? Legal services are subject to 21% VAT.


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## WizardDr (29 Jul 2011)

Well what it would mean is that they could then charge out the Inspector etc etc ..as in they are 'staff' and not a 'law firm'..

does anybody have a technical view that allows the Revenue to do this?


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## mandelbrot (29 Jul 2011)

WizardDr said:


> Well what it would mean is that they could then charge out the Inspector etc etc ..as in they are 'staff' and not a 'law firm'..
> 
> does anybody have a technical view that allows the Revenue to do this?


 
It's the activity that determines whether a transaction is VATable, not the person providing it. The Revenue solicitors are solicitors, they don't charge in costs for the time spent on a case by the Inspector, they are charging for the legal services they have provided in dealing with the case. (If they were to charge for the time of the other Revenue staff, you'd be seeing some fairly hefty costs!!)

The local authorities now have to charge VAT on waste collection services, just the same as a private contractor; albeit that their staff are still civil servants employed by the local authority - no difference to your scenario above really.


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## WizardDr (2 Aug 2011)

mandelbrot - a solicitor working in a company is not providing VATable services to his company so that cannot be quite the answer. 

Does anybody know why Revenue Soicitors are able to charge VAT?


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## Gekko (2 Aug 2011)

Legal services are being supplied to an Irish based customer.

VAT at the standard rate (currently 21%) should be charged.

The fact that this relates to a Revenue solicitor is a moot point.

The question is what's the service and who's the customer?  The VAT treatment should then be ascertainable.


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## DB74 (2 Aug 2011)

WizardDr said:


> mandelbrot - a solicitor working in a company is not providing VATable services to his company so that cannot be quite the answer.
> 
> Does anybody know why Revenue Soicitors are able to charge VAT?



Revenue don't have an in-house solicitor. They contract the function out to an external solicitors office (eg Ivor Fitzpatrick & Co is one such firm AFAIK) and that office provides Revenue with this service. The solicitor then charges their customer (ie Revenue) on a per-case basis and therefore has to charge VAT.


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## Gekko (2 Aug 2011)

DB74 said:


> Revenue don't have an in-house solicitor. They contract the function out to an external solicitors office (eg Ivor Fitzpatrick & Co is one such firm AFAIK) and that office provides Revenue with this service. The solicitor then charges their customer (ie Revenue) on a per-case basis and therefore has to charge VAT.


 
That is incorrect.

http://www.revenue.ie/en/about/procurement/nomination-counsel.html


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## DB74 (2 Aug 2011)

Gekko said:


> That is incorrect.
> 
> http://www.revenue.ie/en/about/procurement/nomination-counsel.html



I didn't realise that.

Do they use an external solicitor for debt-chasing then?


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## Padraigb (2 Aug 2011)

Gekko said:


> That is incorrect.
> 
> http://www.revenue.ie/en/about/procurement/nomination-counsel.html



It's not quite in-house. It's a separate establishment, albeit also a public service one.


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## mandelbrot (2 Aug 2011)

DB74 said:


> I didn't realise that.
> 
> Do they use an external solicitor for debt-chasing then?


 
Yes


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## WizardDr (4 Aug 2011)

Gekko - thanks for that. Is this a VATable service? 

Many thanks


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## Gekko (5 Aug 2011)

WizardDr said:


> Gekko - thanks for that. Is this a VATable service?
> 
> Many thanks


 
Legal type services are generally VATable.


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## johnandy (11 Aug 2011)

Gekko, that was really a nice informative link shared by you. I knew  that all the legal services are VATable, but do not have all the  information regarding this. Thanks for sharing.


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## csirl (11 Aug 2011)

Counsel used in Court cases would not be a Revenue employee (as all Barristers are self employed) so they would charge VAT.


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## mandelbrot (11 Aug 2011)

csirl said:


> Counsel used in Court cases would not be a Revenue employee (as all Barristers are self employed) so they would charge VAT.


 
Ahhhh, yes this must be it - the Revenue solicitors aren't billing for their own costs (in the same way that the taxpayer doesn't get a bill for the time of the Inspector who came and did the audit...!), they're billing for the cost of Counsel, who obviously are charging VAT.


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## WizardDr (15 Aug 2011)

For the avoidance of doubt -- the Revenue Solicitors are EMPLOYEES of Revenue for the purposes of my query. What I want to know is where their right to charge these guys to cases (and not for example the Inspector) arises from.

Forget any other aspect.


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