# Roy Keane ?



## Yes Sir (15 Jun 2012)

Last night on ITV after the Ireland V Spain game he had a go at the Irish fans because they were singing their heads of after being beaten by Spain what should they have done cry their eyes out ? as the saying goes laugh and the world laughs with you weep and you weep alone . Who is Roy Keane going to be slagging off next . The man is a ar*ehole


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## DB74 (15 Jun 2012)

He was dead right


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## Ceist Beag (15 Jun 2012)

No he wasn't! Don't kid yourself DB74, for this group of players to qualify for the Euros is an achievement in itself. The Irish fans are entitled to enjoy themselves over there, it's not often they get the chance!


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## DB74 (15 Jun 2012)

No-one is expecting them to win it. But the 2 performances to-date have been a disgrace and certainly nothing to sing about or celebrate.

Where was the heart and fight-back demonstrated against Russia when we went 3-0 down at home in the qualifiers?

We shouldn't be just happy with getting there. Getting there should be a minimum acceptable standard for Irish soccer.

As I've said elsewhere Scotland scored 3 against Spain in qualifying and the Swiss beat them in 2010. Are we worse or better than those 2 teams?


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## Yes Sir (15 Jun 2012)

Ceist Beag said:


> No he wasn't! Don't kid yourself DB74, for this group of players to qualify for the Euros is an achievement in itself. The Irish fans are entitled to enjoy themselves over there, it's not often they get the chance!



Hear Hear and so say all of us


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## RonanC (15 Jun 2012)

As much as I like Roy Keane, last night he really annoyed me!! 

The Irish supporters have travelled around the world supporting the boys in green, getting behind them no matter what.... Roy Keane himself knows this so well, yet he decides to criticise them when they are at their very best, while a minority of other teams fans are being shown as hooligans, racists and so on. 

The world sat up and applauded our fans last night. The Spanish manager, Del Bosque said "The Irish fans have shown us what football really is". A fan should support his or her team or country no matter what! We qualified for a major tournament for the first time in 10 years and a European championship for the first time in 24 years. 

Imagine the amount of Irish supporters out in Poland who have never seen Ireland competing in the finals of this competition. Roy Keane should be thanking the fans for their continued support not lashing out at them for only going for a 'sing-song'. 

Roy - Keep up the good work on British TV!!

Two big positives to come out of the Euro's so far - Poland, a beautiful country and well worth visiting and our fans. Incredible!! 

*"STAND UP FOR THE FANS IN GREEN" *


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## RonanC (15 Jun 2012)

DB74 said:


> We shouldn't be just happy with getting there. Getting there should be a minimum acceptable standard for Irish soccer.


 
Do you want to list off a team of 11 players for me that are playing at the highest level in any of the European leagues that could wear the Irish shirt?? We have a team of talent who are coming to the end of their careers, and the rest are players who cannot even get their games for Championship sides.... 

The style of play that Giovanni had us playing in the qualifiers made us difficult to beat, but we were also very lucky too. But when you get to the level we are playing now in Poland, up against a side that has the best midfielders probably ever put together, another team who are technically brilliant and another who hardly concede goal, we have the luck of the Irish to be even at this tournament and we should be happy that we have something to cheer on instead of failing to qualify as we have done since 1988 (euro's) and 2002 (world cup).

Irish soccer is an absolute disgrace and has been for a long time! Ask any coach of underage football and they will tell you that we are simply not producing kids with talent anymore. The Spanish and Dutch have systems in place that protect and encourage young children, help them develop skills and allow them to play football. We have a system where kids play on full size pitches and some kids hardly ever get a touch of the ball in a game.

If you want to understand more on our problems and possible ways on solving them check out The Coach Diary, run by an irish guy who spent his childhood playing football in Portugal and had spells at Sporting Lisbon. A great read!


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## Shawady (15 Jun 2012)

DB74 said:


> Where was the heart and fight-back demonstrated against Russia when we went 3-0 down at home in the qualifiers?
> 
> We shouldn't be just happy with getting there. Getting there should be a minimum acceptable standard for Irish soccer.


 
Russia played us off the park in both games.
We are not as good as we think we are. We rode our luck a lot to get here. We beat Estonia in the play-offs. They are ranked 57 in the world. Spain and Croatia are 1 and 8 respectively.
Our style is too predictable for the big teams.


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## DB74 (15 Jun 2012)

Of course I can't name a team of 11 top-class players who are able to compete for the European Championship but the performances from the players we do have was woefully short of what should be expected.

Can you name one player in the Irish team who played to the best of their ability in either of the 2 matches so far?

In terms of players that could/should be there, Darren Gibson and Seamus Coleman both play for Everton, who finished 7th in the Premiership last season. However, Coleman isn't even in the squad and Gibson was left on the bench while Trap brought on a player who can't agree terms with Derby County, Paul Green.

Denmark also has a team squad made up predominantly of journeyman pros but they have beaten Holland and were unlucky not to get a draw against Portugal, having pulled a 2-goal deficit back


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## DB74 (15 Jun 2012)

RonanC said:


> Irish soccer is an absolute disgrace and has been for a long time! Ask any coach of underage football and they will tell you that we are simply not producing kids with talent anymore. The Spanish and Dutch have systems in place that protect and encourage young children, help them develop skills and allow them to play football. We have a system where kids play on full size pitches and some kids hardly ever get a touch of the ball in a game.
> 
> If you want to understand more on our problems and possible ways on solving them check out The Coach Diary, run by an irish guy who spent his childhood playing football in Portugal and had spells at Sporting Lisbon. A great read!



Funny enough I posted basically the exact same thing on another forum after the Croatia game and linked to that website as well!


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## Sunny (15 Jun 2012)

RonanC said:


> As much as I like Roy Keane, last night he really annoyed me!!


 
I agree. It was a stupid comment. I am all for being positive and not settling for brave defeats but we need a bit of realism. The fans there knew exactly what the story was and were simply showing their appreciation to the players for getting them there. Nothing wrong with that.

Roy just needs to cop himself on sometimes. He criticised UTD fans for not supporting their team when they needed it and then criticises the Ireland fans for doing exactly that. 

Having said that, what a legend of a player. Spain wouldn't have won 4-0 if he had being playing last night.


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## Purple (15 Jun 2012)

Sunny said:


> Having said that, what a legend of a player. Spain wouldn't have won 4-0 if he had being playing last night.


Just as well that he was good at football though as there's not much else to like or admire about the man.

This, in my very limited view, is probably the worst squad we have had in 30 years. It’s a miracle we qualified.
The fans were fantastic. I don’t know about the “best fans in the world” bit as I don’t know every sport in every country in world but as European soccer fans go they are hard to beat.


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## Sunny (15 Jun 2012)

DB74 said:


> Denmark also has a team squad made up predominantly of journeyman pros but they have beaten Holland and were unlucky not to get a draw against Portugal, having pulled a 2-goal deficit back


 
Denmark are ranked 9th in the World. Their players play at a higher level than the Irish team. See how many of those journeyman pros have played champions league football compared to our guys.


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## DB74 (15 Jun 2012)

Ireland are ranked 18th in the World

Merely playing in the Champions League is no guarantee of playing at a decent level week in week out. Shamrock Rovers played in the Champions League this season. Does that mean that their players are better than some of the Ireland players.

I would put the Danish squad at slightly better then Ireland's, but they are certainly performing at a far superior level


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## TarfHead (15 Jun 2012)

Purple said:


> It’s a miracle we qualified.


 
Not a miracle. We were in a very weak group, benefitted from some fortituous results* between other teams in the group, got spanked by Russia in Lansdowne and were blessed with a play-off against Estonia.

* Russia 0-1 Slovakia, Armenia 3-1 Slovakia, Slovakia 0-4 Armenia, Macedonia 1-1 Slovakia.

Actually, maybe all of the above constitutes a miracle  !


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## elefantfresh (15 Jun 2012)

The fans were spine tingly last night - to see/hear them for the last ten minutes was a pleasure and made me proud to be Irish.


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## Boyd (15 Jun 2012)

Roy Keane IMO is simply frustated, like most soccer people, with how and who we play. He (as compared to Shearer and Redknapp et al.) isnt afraid to say what he really thinks.

We should be more than a sing along team. I wouldve been sickened if i'd gone over to Poland to see that, both performances were a disgrace. Team selection, tactics, substitutions all awful.

Simon Cox is not a left winger, why was he brought on there against Croatia?
Why bring on McClean when the game is over?
Why is Shane Long suddenly so far down the pecking order?
How is Paul Green ahead of Seamus Coleman and Darren Gibson - he doesnt even have a club for God's sake?
Why does Aidan McGeady recently have a complete inability to keep the ball for more than two seconds?
Why do our midfielders dont want the ball, so many times Dunne, O'Shea and St Ledger had nobody but Given to pass to when pressed by Torres and Xavi?
Ward is not a good enough left back, how many goals did we concede from the left side this tournament, I think nearly all of them. Similarly McGeady doensnt know how to track back, which doubles the issue.

I could go on and on but its too frustrating!


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## TarfHead (15 Jun 2012)

elefantfresh said:


> The fans were spine tingly last night - to see/hear them for the last ten minutes was a pleasure and made me proud to be Irish.


 
The tricolour wigs, the leprechaun suits, the photos of comatose fans, the self-designated '_best fans in de wurrild_' - none of that stirs national pride in me.

Or this.


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## Teatime (15 Jun 2012)

Yes Sir said:


> Hear Hear and so say all of us



Speak for yourself. I think Roy made some valid points.

Last night wasn't good enough. Spain are more skillful no doubt but they also worked harder than us, they pressed us constantly. I have never seen an Irish team looking so lacklustre. Concentration levels were poor. Some of them looked unfit. Not good enough.


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## bazermc (15 Jun 2012)

TarfHead said:


> The tricolour wigs, the leprechaun suits, the photos of comatose fans, the self-designated '_best fans in de wurrild_' - none of that stirs national pride in me.
> 
> Or this.


 
Is he wearing a rugby jersey?  If so that says it all!!!!!!!


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## Yes Sir (15 Jun 2012)

Teatime said:


> Speak for yourself. I think Roy made some valid points.
> 
> Last night wasn't good enough. Spain are more skillful no doubt but they also worked harder than us, they pressed us constantly. I have never seen an Irish team looking so lacklustre. Concentration levels were poor. Some of them looked unfit. Not good enough.



I am speaking for myself my point was what Keane was saying about the Irish fans not was he was saying/ trying to say about the game itself . look before you leap my friend


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## Shawady (15 Jun 2012)

DB74 said:


> Can you name one player in the Irish team who played to the best of their ability in either of the 2 matches so far?


 
I fear many of the senior players are past their best. Even Given didn't look fit in the first match.

I think Trap is just too conservative.
The only hope is that if some of these players retire , his hand will be forced and he will have to blood new players. Certainly squad players like Long, McClean, Walters and Gibosn could be given a run and others like McCarthy, Coleman and Houlahan should be played.


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## The_Banker (15 Jun 2012)

There should be a homecoming celebration for the fans. They deserve it.


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## TarfHead (15 Jun 2012)

The_Banker said:


> There should be a homecoming celebration for the fans. They deserve it.


 
Another Westlife 'concert' in the Phoenix Park MC'ed by Joe Duffy ?

The horror


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## bazermc (15 Jun 2012)

The_Banker said:


> There should be a homecoming celebration for the fans. They deserve it.


 
Have they not done enough celebrating & drink while in Poland?

They should be checking straight into St John of Gods


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## Teatime (15 Jun 2012)

Yes Sir said:


> I am speaking for myself my point was what Keane was saying about the Irish fans not was he was saying/ trying to say about the game itself . look before you leap my friend



My point is that fans should not be celebrating that performance.

When Galway lose to Kilkenny in hurling by playing really badly, you wont find too many fans singing fields of athenry because we were beaten by a better team. The players don't expect it either.


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## Ceist Beag (15 Jun 2012)

Teatime said:


> My point is that fans should not be celebrating that performance.


They weren't celebrating that performance, any eejit would know that. They were celebrating being at the Euros and making the most of it. Roy Keane completely missed the point. Of course the team shouldn't be happy with their performances but give the fans a break - what's the point getting dejected about it when you went over there to enjoy yourself and savour being at a major tournament.


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## DB74 (15 Jun 2012)

Ceist Beag said:


> They weren't celebrating that performance, any eejit would know that. They were celebrating being at the Euros and making the most of it. Roy Keane completely missed the point. Of course the team shouldn't be happy with their performances but give the fans a break - what's the point getting dejected about it when you went over there to enjoy yourself and savour being at a major tournament.



Well when I go to France on my holidays later in the summer, I'll be sure to start singing The Fields of Athenry on the train to celebrate the fact that I'm on holiday!


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## Teatime (15 Jun 2012)

Ceist Beag said:


> They weren't celebrating that performance, any eejit would know that. They were celebrating being at the Euros and making the most of it. Roy Keane completely missed the point. Of course the team shouldn't be happy with their performances but give the fans a break - what's the point getting dejected about it when you went over there to enjoy yourself and savour being at a major tournament.



I wonder if someone else made the comment, would there be less outrage?
I don't think Roy was having a go at the support per se, he was unhappy about the attitude that allows us to not care about the result.

I don't want to be the novelty act. We were a whisker away from qualifying for the semi-final in 1988. We could well have won that tournament with more belief. Granted they were far better players in '88 (and you'd have to ask why that is - something is clearly wrong with our underage setup). But Denmark and Greece can win it, why shouldn't we?

Hopefully we can beat the All-Blacks to lift my mood.


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## becky (15 Jun 2012)

Teatime said:


> My point is that fans should not be celebrating that performance.
> 
> When Galway lose to Kilkenny in hurling by playing really badly, you wont find too many fans singing fields of athenry because we were beaten by a better team. The players don't expect it either.



Thank God for that.  I cannot bear the song.

I saw Roy before the match and there was a sort of tribute to Robbie Keane which ended with Robbie is a great player.

Roy Keanes comment was along the lines of he's not that great just lucky.  He then went onto say that 50 something goals was an achievement though.

I switched over then but I think Roy is like a girl I work with and can't help himself.  The other day she said I looked really really well for my age.


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## Sunny (15 Jun 2012)

The fans weren't celebrating failure or losing 4-0. They were simply doing what proper supporters do. They were supporting their team to the bitter end. Think there are some people here who like to leave the ground early to beat the traffic if the result isn't going their way. The people who travelled to Poland spent a fortune of their money on doing so. If singing and having the craic is what they want to do, then who is Roy Keane or anyone here to they need to change their mentality. 

I am a huge Roy Keane fan but in this case he was talking through his This post will be deleted if not edited to remove bad language.


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## Delboy (15 Jun 2012)

Roy Keane was talking about the players, not the fans as such. The only thing to me that he wants the fans to do is be more demanding and not just put up with the abysmal performances we have seen these past few days. And who would disagree with that!

Did you hear Delaney on the radio this evening...UEFA should give the Irish fans a special award for that last 10 minutes last night!!!!

I mean, for the love of God!!! Is that the level we're still at....will we ever grow up. That man earns 400k+ a yr (and generous expenses no doubt)....he is the highest paid man in soccer who resides on this island. There is not 1 professional player based here and he draws a wage like that when the winners of the FAI cup get something like 30k!!! And he goes around sprouting crap like that, buying crates of beer for fans on trains blah blah blah.
He should cut 300k off his salary and use it to employ 10 more coaches, preferably from Spain, to work in schools around the country


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## Sunny (15 Jun 2012)

Forget Delaney. He is an overpaid fool. How demanding do you want fans to be? Do you want fans to walk out if they losing 4-0? Do you want them to boo? Do you want them to throw stuff? 

This is no different to the Olympics. Irish athletes are going to get criticised for not winning medals. So instead of actually applauding these people for reaching a standard that at their worst is way beyond what any of us could achieve, we call them losers. It would be like Longford fans moaning about not winning the All Ireland. People need to cop themselves on.


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## DB74 (15 Jun 2012)

Sunny said:


> Forget Delaney. He is an overpaid fool. How demanding do you want fans to be? Do you want fans to walk out if they losing 4-0? Do you want them to boo? Do you want them to throw stuff?



It's not the fact that we lost or were losing 4-0. It's the manner of the performances and the effective acceptance of this by the fans that annoyed me. I expect the fans to let the players know that they are not happy with the performances.

It's like Italia 90 when we reached the quarter-final and there was an open-top bus parade. Fair enough.

But then 4 years later we only get to last 16 but still we have plaudits despite the fact that a last 16 spot was a step back from Italia 90. 

Why celebrate failure?


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## Sunny (15 Jun 2012)

Nobody apart from kids and politicians thought 94 celebrations were appropriate. Who is celebrating failure? Not like we are having an open bus parade after this. One team will win this the European Championships. It's not going to be Ireland. Let's hang our heads in shame. Look at the teams that didn't qualify. Ireland lost two games. The Netherlands lost two games. Sorry for thinking those players have no reason to be embarrassed about anything. Of course they could have played better but that's sport. 

Ireland has not qualified for the euro championships since 1988. Judging by people here, you would swear we were regular competitors at this level. A lot better Irish teams failed to qualify for major tournaments.


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## STEINER (16 Jun 2012)

It was good to qualify for the 2012 Euro finals, but the 2 performances and heavy defeats have been embarrassingly bad.  Yeah, the fans are great, but tv pundits and Delaney can't dress up the great fans feelgood story to eclipse the dire match performances.


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## NOAH (16 Jun 2012)

and we still have to face italy so i'll wait until that finishes


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## MrMan (16 Jun 2012)

I think his message go a little muddled in trying to say that the fans  are great and deserve better, but they should also demand better. It's  all talk for TV anyway and Johnny 'honesty of effort' Giles, or Dunphy  could have said the same thing and it would be brushed over. 
Alot of the praise is kind of patronising, but I wouldn't let that take  away from what happened. Irish supporters in Poland actually fit the  description and didn't turn on their team, many 'fans' follow their  team, but we supported them. It's interesting aswell that so many people  take a defeatist attitude towards the team before the game and then  hammer them when they do lose. A little bit of understanding as to what  we achieved by getting there and just what we have at our disposal would  go along way.


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## micmclo (16 Jun 2012)

MrMan said:


> Johnny 'honesty of effort' Giles,



The team lacks "moral courage"


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## dockingtrade (16 Jun 2012)

Gutted we lost and we have nothing to play for in the last game. Every other tournament we qualified for we had something to play for in each game and gave everyone a good game. The fans are great and are also over there on holiday  and are caught up in the atmosphere, they're making the most of it anf fair play to them.
By no means is this a cuase of celebration , something to be proud of or any kind of consolation or achievement. We were terrible in this tournamnet and out way too early thats the bottom line


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## Betsy Og (16 Jun 2012)

While I agree we shouldnt just be happy to be there, at the same time we were 4 -0 down, we were out, there was nothing to be done about it and then the fans started singing. They're out there having a blast, they decided to 'make a name for themselves' and while you might say it smacks of the usual defeatism, need-to-be-liked etc, I thought it was a thank you to the team for getting us there after so long, even if it didnt go well when we got there. So well done to the fans, its not their fault the team cant kick snow off a rope.


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## Leper (16 Jun 2012)

Roy Keane could not care a fig whether the Republic qualified or not. He didnt achieve much as a manager himself. However, he has an excellent football mind. His playing days are over. Perhaps he will continue in management? One way or another Roy has learned that saying something controversial gets him a nice little earner and more television exposure. It is the oldest television pundit trick to boost viewing figures. That is all it is. Mr Dunphy will probably say something controversial next.

The television people cannot afford to lose their audience, bottom line to thinking people. Incidentally, fair dues to the travelling Irish fans, they gave and continue to give an excellent account of themselves. Let's be honest, most of us knew the Rep of Ireland had little chance of qualifying from the group stage.


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## Liamos (18 Jun 2012)

Sunny said:


> IRoy just needs to cop himself on sometimes. He criticised UTD fans for not supporting their team when they needed it and then criticises the Ireland fans for doing exactly that.
> 
> Having said that, what a legend of a player. Spain wouldn't have won 4-0 if he had being playing last night.


 
After Saipan, Roy Keane has lost the authority to make any comments on the Irish players performances at this or any other tournament. AT LEAST THEY ARE OUT THERE PLAYING FOR THEIR COUNTRY!


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## ninsaga (18 Jun 2012)

2 x dismal performances - so do what next?  ... why lets keep the same lineup against Italy then - have a sing song and hope for the best - sure that'll be grand won't it!


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## Sunny (18 Jun 2012)

ninsaga said:


> 2 x dismal performances - so do what next? ... why lets keep the same lineup against Italy then - have a sing song and hope for the best - sure that'll be grand won't it!


 
Why shouldn't the fans have a sing song? What do what them to do? A silent protest in the stadium? Noone is saying the results and the performances are good enough and noone is saying that the same 11 players should be playing but are you really suggesting that the fans should turn against the team. I was at matches at the end of the McCarthy and Staunton reigns and they were ugly matches to attend as the fans weren't slow about showing their displeasure. Only reason they are not doing it now is that they appreciate the efforts of the team for getting them there in the first place. They are right to stay with them until the end. The post mortem can start tomorrow.


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## Sunny (18 Jun 2012)

Liamos said:


> After Saipan, Roy Keane has lost the authority to make any comments on the Irish players performances at this or any other tournament. AT LEAST THEY ARE OUT THERE PLAYING FOR THEIR COUNTRY!


 
True. He is still entitled to an opinion though. Same as every other tv and armchair pundit. He also put in some performances in an Irish shirt that don't deserve to be forgotten about because of what happened in Saipan.


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## Shawady (18 Jun 2012)

It is worth mentioning that Holland (2010 world cup finalist, ranked 4th in the world, seeded number one for their group ahead of Germany) are out of the competition having lost all 3 games.

Sunny's point re: Mick mcCarthy is right. He did a good job with Ireland but the fans were quick to turn on him after two defeats for the 2004 euro qualifying. We didn't even make it to the play-off position again until Trap became manager. Ireland's performances have been disappointing no doubt, but people have to be careful what they wish for.


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## DB74 (18 Jun 2012)

Shawady said:


> It is worth mentioning that Holland (2010 world cup finalist, ranked 4th in the world, seeded number one for their group ahead of Germany) are out of the competition having lost all 3 games.



Their fans were a disgrace as well. Didn't even sing once during the last 20 minutes when it was obvious that they were going out, having woefully underperformed for the entire tournament!


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## Purple (18 Jun 2012)

ninsaga said:


> 2 x dismal performances - so do what next? ... why lets keep the same lineup against Italy then - have a sing song and hope for the best - sure that'll be grand won't it!


 
What the fans do or don't do won't change the result.
It's hard to listen to Roy Keane; he's a bitter whinger who's never said a gracious thing in his life.


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## Liamos (18 Jun 2012)

Sunny said:


> True. He is still entitled to an opinion though. Same as every other tv and armchair pundit. He also put in some performances in an Irish shirt that don't deserve to be forgotten about because of what happened in Saipan.


 
Look, he was one of irelands greatest players, and I certainly remember all of his great performances.

But how can he seriously ever criticise a player wearing an irish shirt after he walked out on his team (country) when they needed him most?

And how can we take his comments seriously?

Like i said he has lost his authority to comment because of Saipan.


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## TarfHead (18 Jun 2012)

Liamos said:


> After Saipan, Roy Keane has lost the authority to make any comments on the Irish players performances at this or any other tournament.


 
Oh good ! Is is time for yet another raking of the Saipan coals  ?

AFAIK, Roy Keane made these comments in a column for a red-top tabloid. What do you expect, insight, analysis, lowest-common denominator polemic  ?


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## MrMan (18 Jun 2012)

Liamos said:


> After Saipan, Roy Keane has lost the authority to make any comments on the Irish players performances at this or any other tournament. AT LEAST THEY ARE OUT THERE PLAYING FOR THEIR COUNTRY!



That's the kind of logic that only sport can produce. We wouldn't have been talking about Saipan without Roy, because we wouldn't have made it there.


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## MrMan (18 Jun 2012)

Purple said:


> What the fans do or don't do won't change the result.
> It's hard to listen to Roy Keane; he's a bitter whinger who's never said a gracious thing in his life.




Try listening more then and not just reading the headlines.


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## Liamos (18 Jun 2012)

TarfHead said:


> Oh good ! Is is time for yet another raking of the Saipan coals  ?
> 
> AFAIK, Roy Keane made these comments in a column for a red-top tabloid. What do you expect, insight, analysis, lowest-common denominator polemic  ?


 
Actually he made them on ITV on live television.


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## Shawady (18 Jun 2012)

DB74 said:


> Their fans were a disgrace as well. Didn't even sing once during the last 20 minutes when it was obvious that they were going out, having woefully underperformed for the entire tournament!


 
Fair play to the irish fans for singing. There is more important things in life than football. They went over to have a good time and just because Roy Keane can't take a drink anymore he shouldn't begrudge others having a good time.
Rumour has it he is on the short list for the managers job at Birmingham so maybe it will be third time lucky to instill his winning mentality into his management career.


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## Liamos (18 Jun 2012)

MrMan said:


> That's the kind of logic that only sport can produce. We wouldn't have been talking about Saipan without Roy, because we wouldn't have made it there.


 
Still doesnt take away from the fact that he walked out on his team when they needed him.


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## TarfHead (18 Jun 2012)

Liamos said:


> Actually he made them on ITV on live television.


 
ITV Sport, red-top tabloids, it's all the same to me. I rather follow a match on Aertel than watch it on ITV.


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## Purple (18 Jun 2012)

MrMan said:


> Try listening more then and not just reading the headlines.


 I do listen. That's why I don' like him. He behaves and speaks like a spoiled child.


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## TarfHead (18 Jun 2012)

Liamos said:


> Still doesnt take away from *the fact* that he walked out on his team when they needed him.


 
How does that square against *the fact* that Mick McCarthy claimed to have sent him home ?


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## Liamos (18 Jun 2012)

TarfHead said:


> How does that square against *the fact* that Mick McCarthy claimed to have sent him home ?


 
 I would side with the view that he walked.


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## ninsaga (18 Jun 2012)

i'm not complaining about the fans singing - its the fact that the players have the attitude that no matter what happens 'we've the best fans in the world anyway'... wand that Roy keanes point - its the players need the attitude adjustment - NOT the fans.


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## Shawady (18 Jun 2012)

The quote i read from Andrews, he praised the fans and said they deserved better. To me, that is somone that is admitting the performances have not been good enough, and other players have come out and said the same.


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## bazermc (18 Jun 2012)

Liamos said:


> I would side with the view that he walked.


 

Please, no, not this whole debate again!!!!!!!!!!!!


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## MrMan (18 Jun 2012)

"People seem to have misunderstood me. I've no problems with the fans  singing. It's great that they back the team during and before games -  but should they really stay on long after the final whistle cheering? "There's a danger that the players think that what has happened on the pitch is acceptable, when it's not."


It's kind of hard to disagree with him really is it not?


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## Liamos (18 Jun 2012)

MrMan said:


> "People seem to have misunderstood me. I've no problems with the fans singing. It's great that they back the team during and before games - but should they really stay on long after the final whistle cheering? "There's a danger that the players think that what has happened on the pitch is acceptable, when it's not."
> 
> 
> It's kind of hard to disagree with him really is it not?


 
I don't think that because the fans were singing at the end of the match, the Irish players were thinking that a 4 - 0 defeat was acceptable. 

Im sure they realise the fans are thanking them for qualifying for the finals in the first place.


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## Delboy (18 Jun 2012)

While the well paid Delaney is on the beer in Poland, looking for awards for the great Irish fans.....a league of Ireland club in the premier division which would have passed the FAI's licencing tests only a few months ago, has left the league
http://www.rte.ie/sport/soccer/iris...8/325495-monaghan-quit-the-airtricity-league/

I don't know why Keane bothers even to comment on or watch anything soccer related with the Irish...the whole things is 1 big unplanned party where anything that goes well, does so by accident rather than design. And it will always be the same


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## Ceist Beag (18 Jun 2012)

MrMan said:


> "People seem to have misunderstood me. I've no problems with the fans  singing. It's great that they back the team during and before games -  but should they really stay on long after the final whistle cheering? "There's a danger that the players think that what has happened on the pitch is acceptable, when it's not."
> 
> 
> It's kind of hard to disagree with him really is it not?



Maybe if you think the players are plebs MrMan but otherwise I can't see how anyone could agree with him!


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## DB74 (18 Jun 2012)

Liamos said:


> Im sure they realise the fans are thanking them for qualifying for the finals in the first place.



Is this not what the last home friendly is for, hence the lap-of-honour after the match and all that sort of malarky?


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## TarfHead (18 Jun 2012)

Thank goodness all those nasty fans, who booed them in Lansdowne Road, aren't in Poland, just the nice ones who sing and clap .


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## MrMan (18 Jun 2012)

Ceist Beag said:


> Maybe if you think the players are plebs MrMan but otherwise I can't see how anyone could agree with him!



If you take out the fact that it was Roy Keane that made the remarks, then more people might agree. Some people seem predisposed to siding against the man.


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## dockingtrade (18 Jun 2012)

i posted earlier, im not criticisng the fans. The issue i have is that some people see ias some kind of achievment or consolation that we have great fans ... its not.


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## S.L.F (18 Jun 2012)

Can't stand Keane myself.

The fans went to Poland and spent their own money which most have worked hard for.

Who does he think he is slagging them off like that.

He got paid to play football, he got paid to manage the teams and now he gets paid to talk on tv and radio.

Tha simple fact of the matter is the fans are there he is not he has some sheek to slag them off.


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## Birroc (18 Jun 2012)

S.L.F said:


> Can't stand Keane myself.
> The fans went to Poland and spent their own money which most have worked hard for.


 
Did you listen to what Keane said, in context? He wasn't slagging the fans, he was saying they deserve better for their support and should be letting the players know.

I went to 2 qualifying matches but I couldn't afford to go to Euro12. I would personally be seething if I had paid good money to watch that muck.


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## ninsaga (18 Jun 2012)

Trap getting slated by Dunphy there for not lining up some of the key younger players - Roy is right


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## Ceist Beag (19 Jun 2012)

MrMan said:


> If you take out the fact that it was Roy Keane that made the remarks, then more people might agree. Some people seem predisposed to siding against the man.



Ah come on MrMan, do you seriously think the players would hear the singing and say, "actually lads we must have done alright tonight, listen to that"? Keane is only making himself look stupid by coming out with comments like that. As others have said, there is a time and a place for the post mortem on the tournament, but for the fans over in Poland it is not the time or place to start getting peed off and booing. They simply want to enjoy themselves and nobody can blame them for that. I certainly don't agree with Keane that the fans should be booing the team over there. 
But once the dust settles I definitely think there are hard questions to be asked of the manager. His selection of Cox against Spain was strange. His substitutions have been equally strange - bringing on Cox left wing when we have two left wingers on the bench, bringing on Long but pushing Doyle to right wing, then bringing on Walters and pushing Long out to the right wing - wtf!! Leaving Whelan on when he has looked knackered for the past two games, bringing on Green who has no club instead of Gibson who has been playing regularly in the Premiership - wtf!! So Trap has a lot to answer for and I hope he shows immediate changes for the World Cup Qualifiers, but as I said booing the team off against Spain would have been wrong and therefore Keane was wrong - imho!


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## demoivre (19 Jun 2012)

MrMan said:


> If you take out the fact that it was Roy Keane that made the remarks, then more people might agree. Some people seem predisposed to siding against the man.



A thug who walks out on his country, as Keane did in 2002, has zero credibility with me. A proper gurrier if ever there was one.


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## Shawady (19 Jun 2012)

MrMan said:


> Some people seem predisposed to siding against the man.


 
It's funny because I always seen it the other way around. He is a legend for Man Utd fans and I don't think any other irish player would have got the support he got after Saipan.
The problem with Roy is that he just comes across as bitter. The fans can sing if they want. It's nothing to do with him. 
Many fans are already voting with the feet for the home matches. The games are not selling out.


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## S.L.F (19 Jun 2012)

Birroc said:


> Did you listen to what Keane said, in context? He wasn't slagging the fans, he was saying they deserve better for their support and should be letting the players know.
> 
> I went to 2 qualifying matches but I couldn't afford to go to Euro12. I would personally be seething if I had paid good money to watch that muck.


 
In context of what?

Soccer is a game when it becomes something more than a game.

Here is what he said.


“I think the players and even the supporters, they all have to change their mentality, it’s just nonsense from players speaking after the games about how great the supporters are,” he said afterwards.
“Listen, the supporters want to see the team doing a lot better and not giving daft goals away like that. I’m not too happy with all that nonsense. To praise the supporters for sake of it … Let’s change that attitude towards Irish supporters.
“They want to see the team winning – let’s not kid ourselves, we’re a small country, we’re up against it, but let’s not just go along for the sing-song every now and again.”

I don't believe someone like Roy Keane has the right to talk about the  mentality of Irish fans.

The fans were there he was not it is that simple.

He had a chance to play for his country and walked out.

He has a cheek!


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## S.L.F (19 Jun 2012)

demoivre said:


> A thug who walks out on his country, as Keane did in 2002, has zero credibility with me. A proper gurrier if ever there was one.



That clip does not show the whole incident.

After he attacked him he turned and spat on him while he was on the ground in agony.

Then after he was sent off he walked over to him and said, "Take that you ****".

Hero????


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## Sunny (19 Jun 2012)

S.L.F said:


> After he attacked him he turned and spat on him while he was on the ground in agony.


 
Well as much as I cant defend the rest of it, that bit is simply not true.


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## S.L.F (19 Jun 2012)

Sunny said:


> Well as much as I cant defend the rest of it, that bit is simply not true.


 
I suggest you watch this if you do not believe me.

The 16th second is when he did it.


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## Sunny (19 Jun 2012)

S.L.F said:


> I suggest you watch this if you do not believe me.


 
And where does it show him spitting on the player? You see him spitting but that is all.  He was never accused of that. Not even Haaland claimed that. The foul was bad enough. There is no need to make stuff up to make it sound worse.


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## S.L.F (19 Jun 2012)

Sunny said:


> And where does it show him spitting on the player? You see him spitting but that is all. He was never accused of that. Not even Haaland claimed that. The foul was bad enough. There is no need to make stuff up to make it sound worse.


 
Halland was on the ground in agony when it happened, he'd never have noticed.

I edited my post to include the exact moment when Roy spat on him.

The 16th second is when it was.

He attacked him, turned, looked down on him and spat on him.


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## Sunny (19 Jun 2012)

S.L.F said:


> Halland was on the ground in agony when it happened, he'd never have noticed.
> 
> I edited my post to include the exact moment when Roy spat on him.
> 
> ...


 
Again, it doesn't show that. Do you think you are the only person that has spotted this? The referee, none of the other players, the FA and the Media all missed Roy Keane spitting on a player lying injured on the ground? 

Anyway, this isn't 2002. Not spending my time talking about Roy Keane anymore.


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## S.L.F (19 Jun 2012)

Sunny said:


> Again, it doesn't show that. Do you think you are the only person that has spotted this? The referee, none of the other players, the FA and the Media all missed Roy Keane spitting on a player lying injured on the ground?
> 
> Anyway, this isn't 2002. Not spending my time talking about Roy Keane anymore.


 
From a far distance the camera was for the tackle and then in real time it goes close up, as clearly as possible you can see Roy Keane spitting in the exact spot where he moved from which was where his target was.


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## MrMan (19 Jun 2012)

S.L.F said:


> From a far distance the camera was for the tackle and then in real time it goes close up, as clearly as possible you can see Roy Keane spitting in the exact spot where he moved from which was where his target was.


 
He spat on the ground, there were other city players between him and haaland, so why bother making things up! It was a terrible tackle and he admits that he meant it at the time, it hardly makes him a thug though. Plenty of sportspeople have taken things too far with adrenaline pumping.


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## MrMan (19 Jun 2012)

Ceist Beag said:


> Ah come on MrMan, do you seriously think the players would hear the singing and say, "actually lads we must have done alright tonight, listen to that"? Keane is only making himself look stupid by coming out with comments like that. As others have said, there is a time and a place for the post mortem on the tournament, but for the fans over in Poland it is not the time or place to start getting peed off and booing. They simply want to enjoy themselves and nobody can blame them for that. I certainly don't agree with Keane that the fans should be booing the team over there.
> But once the dust settles I definitely think there are hard questions to be asked of the manager. His selection of Cox against Spain was strange. His substitutions have been equally strange - bringing on Cox left wing when we have two left wingers on the bench, bringing on Long but pushing Doyle to right wing, then bringing on Walters and pushing Long out to the right wing - wtf!! Leaving Whelan on when he has looked knackered for the past two games, bringing on Green who has no club instead of Gibson who has been playing regularly in the Premiership - wtf!! So Trap has a lot to answer for and I hope he shows immediate changes for the World Cup Qualifiers, but as I said booing the team off against Spain would have been wrong and therefore Keane was wrong - imho!


 
I don't think the players are that naive obviously, but it does allow for a little bit of head buried in sand syndrome, like delaney looking for an award for the fans etc, if we keep going on about the fans, it means we're doing nothing where it matters. My point is that Roy didn't slam the fans as so many people seem to think.
People on AAM often go on about the negative stereotype of the Irish and their drinking, but we then lap it up when we are told we are the best in the world and are the life of the party. Win or lose....


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## MrMan (19 Jun 2012)

demoivre said:


> A thug who walks out on his country, as Keane did in 2002, has zero credibility with me. A proper gurrier if ever there was one.


 
An old debate that nobody can win, and lets not forget that he actually played for his country after 2002. He was no saint, but teams excelled at the highest level because of him. If he was a rugby player he would be a warrior, to you he is a thug, to me he was one of the reasons why i enjoyed watching football before he retired.


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## S.L.F (19 Jun 2012)

MrMan said:


> He spat on the ground, there were other city players between him and haaland, so why bother making things up! It was a terrible tackle and he admits that he meant it at the time, it hardly makes him a thug though. Plenty of sportspeople have taken things too far with adrenaline pumping.


 
If you take the trouble to actually look at the clip you will see he spat directly in the location where his victim was.

"Plenty of sportspeople have taken things too far with adrenaline pumping"

Wanna name me someone who waits 2 years before they get their own back for something?


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## Purple (19 Jun 2012)

Wow, SLF has a lower opinion of Roy Keane than me. I didn't think it was possible!


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## Sunny (19 Jun 2012)

S.L.F said:


> If you take the trouble to actually look at the clip you will see he spat directly in the location where his victim was.
> 
> "Plenty of sportspeople have taken things too far with adrenaline pumping"
> 
> Wanna name me someone who waits 2 years before they get their own back for something?



So now it is spitting in the location of and not on? Plenty of sportspeople have talked about taking revenge. In soccer alone I can think of Paul Scholes and Iwan Roberts to name but two who publically admitted it.


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## S.L.F (19 Jun 2012)

Purple said:


> Wow, SLF has a lower opinion of Roy Keane than me. I didn't think it was possible!



Yes I know it is strange that we actually agree on at least one thing.

I really can't stand the man!

Anyone who will deliberately try to harm another, and for what?

Because 2 years previously Halland shouted at him because he fell in the penalty area.

Keane was in extreme pain and was not faking it, but many players have faked falling in the area to try to get a penalty, I assume he thought that Keane was trying it on.

That's why he was so angry and shouted at him on the ground.

Keane's response 2 years later was to not tackle him but foul him.

He could have had the courage to call him out but no he had to do it on the TV with everyone watching.

Halland went for the ball and got it, but Keane was not aiming at the ball he aimed at the man.

We should call that incident what it was, an unprovoked assault.

It is my belief that the police should have been involved in that incident.




Sunny said:


> So now it is spitting in the location of and not on? Plenty of sportspeople have talked about taking revenge. In soccer alone I can think of Paul Scholes and Iwan Roberts to name but two who publically admitted it.



The location was aimed at his victim on the ground.

Did they end peoples careers because someone shouted at them?


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## Sunny (19 Jun 2012)

Do you ever wonder why you might be the only person who has ever brought up with this spitting accusation? Seriously, do you not think this might have come up at the time? 

Also the ending of career is another fib bandied about. Haaland didn't even go off after the tackle and played in games after it.

By the way I had huge respect for Keane the player but little for Keane the man. It's no different to Ali. Superb boxer but a horrible human being. Doesn't mean his sporting achievements shouldn't be recognised.


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## Purple (19 Jun 2012)

S.L.F said:


> Yes I know it is strange that we actually agree on at least one thing.
> 
> I really can't stand the man!
> 
> ...


I'm just surprised that it took this to bring you out of retirement!


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## S.L.F (19 Jun 2012)

Sunny said:


> Do you ever wonder why you might be the only person who has ever brought up with this spitting accusation? Seriously, do you not think this might have come up at the time?



Does that mean I am wrong because the vast majority of people cannot see it or does it mean I spotted something nobody else can see.

It is as clear as crystal to me.

I can even see the look of contempt on his face as he does it.



Sunny said:


> Also the ending of career is another fib bandied about. Haaland didn't even go off after the tackle and played in games after it.



But not very many at all



Sunny said:


> By the way I had huge respect for Keane the player but little for Keane the man. It's no different to Ali. Superb boxer but a horrible human being.



Cough cough............I think you mean Mike Tyson



Sunny said:


> Doesn't mean his sporting achievements shouldn't be recognised.



Well there's a thing.

What is sport?

Whatever it was that Roy Keane represented was not anything I'd be teaching my kids.

Fair play, respect for fellow professionals and most respect for the game.

He showed none of those things.

EDIT....

Not to mention, Saipon where he left and then went back and carried on with his drama and was rightly sent home.


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## Sunny (19 Jun 2012)

Yes, you spotted something that no one else in the world had. Contact the papers. You will make a fortune. 

No I meant Ali. If you think he was a nice human being, then read again. 

You can teach your kids what you want. Let's see how many of them become professional footballers. Let see how many of them become one of the top players in the world. Let's see how many of your kids do things on the pitch that you might not be proud of if they do reach that level. There is a difference between playing sport and working in sport.


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## Leper (20 Jun 2012)

Here we are, most of us trying eke out a decent living not knowing whether we will be working next month or not.  Mr Keane is rolling it in and will never see a day when he will have to even think about his earnings.  He has copped on from Mr Dunphy etc and knows by saying something controversial he gets more and more publicity and consequently the fact of more and more earnings.

And we are helping his financial cause . . . the quicker we learn to stop earning megabucks for overpaid smug former footballers the better . . .


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## Delboy (20 Jun 2012)

Leper said:


> Here we are, most of us trying eke out a decent living not knowing whether we will be working next month or not.  Mr Keane is rolling it in and will never see a day when he will have to even think about his earnings.  He has copped on from Mr Dunphy etc and knows by saying something controversial he gets more and more publicity and consequently the fact of more and more earnings.
> 
> And we are helping his financial cause . . . the quicker we learn to stop earning megabucks for overpaid smug former footballers the better . . .



Roy Keane has made his money through the profession he excelled at, which pays in the manner in which it does to all world class footballers, and not just Roy. So I don't see why you need to point that out
And I doubt he needs to come out with controversial statements so as to boost his wallet....perhaps he just wants to see his country do well for itself, and cant abide the 'we win, we loose, we're going on the booze' attitude of the 'leaders' especially, within Irish Football


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## bullbars (20 Jun 2012)

S.L.F said:


> But not very many at all


 
True, Haaland didn't last many games after but that was due to consistent problems with his left knee, the opposite knee Keane caught. Haaland had long term problems with his left knee long before Keane fouled him.


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## Liamos (20 Jun 2012)

A lot of Man Utd fans on here defending their man. He can do no wrong!


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## MrMan (20 Jun 2012)

S.L.F said:


> If you take the trouble to actually look at the clip you will see he spat directly in the location where his victim was.
> 
> "Plenty of sportspeople have taken things too far with adrenaline pumping"
> 
> Wanna name me someone who waits 2 years before they get their own back for something?




Wanna name anyone that actually admits what they did?


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## Shawady (20 Jun 2012)

One thing is for sure. Roy Keane still divides opinion!


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## MrMan (20 Jun 2012)

S.L.F said:


> I really can't stand the man!
> Anyone who will deliberately try to harm another, and for what?
> Because 2 years previously Halland shouted at him because he fell in the penalty area.
> Keane was in extreme pain and was not faking it, but many players have faked falling in the area to try to get a penalty, I assume he thought that Keane was trying it on.
> ...



You went from assuming why Haaland shouted at him on the ground to confirming it, a bit like see a man spit and then assuming what nobody else has ever assumed.

You do realise that Haalands career ended because of an injury to his other knee right?


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## demoivre (20 Jun 2012)

MrMan said:


> If he was a rugby player he would be a warrior, to you he is a thug, to me he was one of the reasons why i enjoyed watching football before he retired.



Any right thinking rugby supporter would not regard that type of thuggery in a game as the sign of a warrior - far from it. Thuggery should be condemned in any sport. Schalk Burger ( eye gouging of Luke Fitzgerald ) should be treated with the same contempt as Roy Keane imo.


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## Birroc (20 Jun 2012)

I actually saw this game again recently. Before the shocking tackle from Keane, the 2 of them were literally knocking lumps out of each other. They were both tackling badly and late (with the crowd loving it) and it was a matter of time before someone was badly injured. The were clearly targetting each other. The ref probably should have anticipated it and sent both of them off for earlier fouls.
I am not saying it was self-preservation on Keane's part but these things need to be taken in context.


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## Shawady (20 Jun 2012)

Niall Quinn thinks we should give Keane the job.
I find the logic hard to understand since he has achieved very little in his managment career to date.

http://www.independent.ie/sport/soc...to-drag-ireland-out-of-the-abyss-3144942.html


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## Sunny (20 Jun 2012)

Shawady said:


> Niall Quinn thinks we should give Keane the job.
> I find the logic hard to understand since he has achieved very little in his managment career to date.
> 
> http://www.independent.ie/sport/soc...to-drag-ireland-out-of-the-abyss-3144942.html


 
What he did at Sunderland was impressive but the problem is that players will not be lining up to play for him either at club or international level. I don't think he will ever make it is a manager without a personality transplant.


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## DB74 (20 Jun 2012)

Birroc said:


> I actually saw this game again recently. Before the shocking tackle from Keane, the 2 of them were literally knocking lumps out of each other. They were both tackling badly and late (with the crowd loving it) and it was a matter of time before someone was badly injured. The were clearly targetting each other. The ref probably should have anticipated it and sent both of them off for earlier fouls.
> I am not saying it was self-preservation on Keane's part but these things need to be taken in context.



That's fair enough (to an extent) if that match was the context in isolation. However the context of the tackle takes on a whole new meaning after what Keane said in his book about it effectively being pre-meditated.


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## MrMan (20 Jun 2012)

Shawady said:


> Niall Quinn thinks we should give Keane the job.
> I find the logic hard to understand since he has achieved very little in his managment career to date.
> 
> http://www.independent.ie/sport/soc...to-drag-ireland-out-of-the-abyss-3144942.html



Managerial track record has rarely been on the criteria when choosing an Ireland manager. At club level his short carrer to date would surpass most previous managers, I'm not touting him for the job btw, I don't see John 'the next rounds on me lads' Delaney picking someone that might rock the boat.


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## MrMan (20 Jun 2012)

Sunny said:


> What he did at Sunderland was impressive but the problem is that players will not be lining up to play for him either at club or international level. I don't think he will ever make it is a manager without a personality transplant.



He might never make it any further, and he should learn to choose his battles, and unfortunately it would also stand to him if he just fell in with the cliche brigade and didn't answer the questions put to him. 
The personality issue I'm not so sure of, because there have been many ruthless and sometimes mad managers that have thrived in the game, it will come down more to his actual ability to manage and whether its something that he either has or hasn't. The jury is still out on that.


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## Deiseblue (20 Jun 2012)

Weather 35 degrees in Cracow today , pint of beer running at approx 1.80 euro & wide ranging cuisine & the most stunning women I've ever seen.

The team played dreadfully but boy am I glad they got us here.

Ran into the boy Roy today together with Gareth Southgate whilst visiting Auschwitz - now there's a place that puts football in perspective.


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