# is there a public search of a database of people who have declared Bankrupt.



## trailite

Hoping someone on here can advise me.

I need to find out if there is a database of people who have declared
Bankrupt.  Is it open to the public to search. How does one go about it.

If I cannot do this on my own, what will it cost to have a solicitor do it for me.
It is a complicated story, a personal one, but I need to know if this person
(who might be Bankrupt)  I am owed a lot of money from this person,
unsecured debt, but we do share ownership of a house. (He gave deeds to bank of our shared house) as security for the loan.
I have no contact with this person. He will no respond to any of my calls.


----------



## Leo

You can use the likes of SoloCheck to investigate. 
Leo


----------



## Time

This person is very unlikely to be a bankrupt. The numbers made bankrupt are tiny. 

There is a list maintained by the courts service.


----------



## trailite

*is thee a public search of a database of people who declare Bankrupt*

Thank you both for the replies.

He is not a business person. Unemployed as far as I know.
Solo search seems geared more to those in business.?

The Court Service, is that something one can do on one's own, or do you
have to hire a solicitor to do it for you? (to search Bankrupt records)
Any ideas as to how much this search will cost?

 I live outside of Ireland just now, but will be in Ireland this summer for a few weeks.
Any ideas on how to go about this search would be appreciated.
A bit more to the story, I recently found out that Bank used
section 15 of loan guarantee. I don't have a clue what this is, other than to guess the bank are still owed money, and are holding (my/his house)
as a lien


----------



## dewdrop

As a matter of interest is the house owned jointly or tenants in common. I am curious how the property could be used as security unless you were legally involved in the transaction


----------



## j26

Get one of the Legal Searching firms to do a Bankruptcy search.  It shouldn't cost much and would be the easiest way.


----------



## Time

You should expand that to a general judgement search. I doubt he is really a bankrupt.


----------



## trailite

*Is there a public search of a database of people who have declared Bankrupt*



dewdrop said:


> As a matter of interest is the house owned jointly or tenants in common. I am curious how the property could be used as security unless you were legally involved in the transaction


Thank you for the reply.

to answer your above question,

house is owned in three equal shares, tenents in common
(three siblings were left house in will)

I did not co-sign for the actual loan., but did give permission for deeds to
be used by bank as security until loan was paid off.

Bank will now not release the deeds to me, (they won't tell me much at all) as I did not co-sign for the actual loan. 
I have a feeling loan is not paid in full, so they are holding on the the deeds. Only thing I got out of phone conversation was section 15 of
continuing guarantee was being used by bank. (whatever that means)

No communication with siblings (as you can imagine) this has caused huge rift in family


----------



## dewdrop

I know in times past when property was registered as tenants in common and the title was unregistered (bundle of deeds) there was only one main document showing the 3 of you as owners as tenants in common.  If the title was Land Registry each party would have a Land Certificate showing their ownership as an undivided third share. Maybe the system has changed.  At the end of day a share in a property has limited value unless the remaining owners are prepared to buy your share. An outsider i feel would have little interest in acquiring your share


----------



## Bronte

trailite said:


> house is owned in three equal shares, tenents in common
> (three siblings were left house in will)
> 
> I did not co-sign for the actual loan., but did give permission for deeds to
> be used by bank as security until loan was paid off.
> 
> Bank will now not release the deeds to me, (they won't tell me much at all) as I did not co-sign for the actual loan.


 
3 of you inherited a house and one of you got a bank loan based on the deeds of the house.  You say you gave permission, did you do this in writing.  Did the third person also agree?  

What you need to do is sort it out.  Or let it go.  Who is living in the house?


----------



## dewdrop

Hi Bronte i think the bank gave the loan on the security of a third share of the property which without the other two shares would have been of very limited value unless one of the parties wanted to buy the pledged share.


----------



## trailite

*Is there a public search of a database of people who have declared Bankrupt*

Thank you all for the replies. 
To dewdrop, you are correct. Bank only has security of house for one third share. (sibling A) who actually took out the loan with them.

Sibling B, co-signed for this loan.
Me, sibling c, did not co-sign. 
(I refused)

What I did do, was give my written permission for the deeds to be used as security. (big mistake) now in hindsight.

I thought I was doing sibling A a favour, as their circumstances at the time were dire. That sibling has lived in the house for ll years, and still lives in it.
(no rent to siblings B and C being paid in all that time)

It is hard to take a sibling to court, to sell this house. I have given up on that idea for now. The loss of the rental revenue is about forty thousand euro in ll years.

Recently it came to light, (through the family) that this loan may not be paid off at all.
The bank still hold the deeds, and will not release them. They won't tell me anything either, as I did not co sign for this loan.
Sibling B does not deal with legal matters well, so has backed away for all of this. 
I live outside of Ireland, but have already made an appointment with a solicitor this summer when I visit there. (so I am dealing with it Bronte) 

I came here seeking answers, Thank you to all, I now think he is not Bankrupt. Possibly the bank have a judgement against him. (there is an Irish site to look at all Judgements) and his name is not on there (yet)
So have learned a lot, but still don't have all the answers. Hoping the Solicitor will help me down that road this summer.


----------



## Bronte

So the loan is in two siblings names but not yours.  But the bank has the deeds.  Can you clarify exactly the document you signed in relation to the bank getting the deeds.

So now you need your share but how to sell.  You cannot unless you go to court to force a sale and I would imagine the bank would be in agreement with this as that way they will get their loan repaid.  

If sibling A is not paying back the loan I'm surprised they haven't gone after B?  Doesn't make any sense from the banks point of view.  Are you sure you have the full facts from B.  Does B have a job?

In relation to being owed a lot of money, presumable you mean lost rent?  Did you have an arrangment in relation to this ?  In writing?

You don't have to physically visit a solicitor to get someone to act for you (I live abroad too) but as a starting point you could use the family solicitor who was involved with the probate and presumable with the sibling getting the loan as that solicitor will have all the details on file.


----------



## trailite

*is thee a public search of a database of people who declare Bankrupt*



Bronte said:


> So the loan is in two siblings names but not yours. But the bank has the deeds. Can you clarify exactly the document you signed in relation to the bank getting the deeds.
> ********************
> 
> Reply. Yes, Bronte, the Bank loan is in two siblings names only. The bank at the time sent me a legal type document to sign, called a Continuing Guarantee" but I did not return it. I told Bank I would not sign it. That having deeds should be good enough. What I did give was a short note to bank saying I give my permission for deeds to be held as security. The loan was then supposed to be paid off.
> ***********************************************
> Bronte wrote
> So now you need your share but how to sell. You cannot unless you go to court to force a sale and I would imagine the bank would be in agreement with this as that way they will get their loan repaid.
> **************************************************
> Bronte, you hit the hail on the head with this above. I have tried in the past to settle this with a Solicitor, who sent letters demanding return of the key, or vacate the house. He is still in the house, and I have no key to it.
> Sibling A said they always planned on buying the other two out, but that never happened. (eleven years now)
> ****************************************************
> 
> Bronte wrote
> If sibling A is not paying back the loan I'm surprised they haven't gone after B? Doesn't make any sense from the banks point of view. Are you sure you have the full facts from B. Does B have a job?
> #############################################
> 
> reply
> The bank wrote to Sibling B, four years ago, telling Sibling B they were
> released from liability under Guarantee, but were retaining the Guarantee in accordance with its terms.
> 
> My thoughts, if they were
> releasing Sibling B from liability, why retain the Guarantee?
> That is why I phoned the bank in Ireland, but they would not tell me much as I am not party to the loan. All they would say is contact the Solicitor
> who was dealing with Sibling A affairs.
> Sibling B does not want to deal with this now, and no, Sibling B is not working, in their 60s and does not deal well with stress.
> *********************************************
> 
> Bronte wrote
> In relation to being owed a lot of money, presumable you mean lost rent? Did you have an arrangment in relation to this ? In writing?
> 
> ###################################################
> 
> reply, yes, Sibling B and me, are owed rough guess, fifty thousand Euro
> no agreement in writing, just a verbal one that Sibling A would pay same rent that was previous paid when it was rented out.
> ##############################################
> 
> You don't have to physically visit a solicitor to get someone to act for you (I live abroad too) but as a starting point you could use the family solicitor who was involved with the probate and presumable with the sibling getting the loan as that solicitor will have all the details on file.


 
##############################################

Bronte, I am in touch with the original Solicitor who handled the estate
(when the house was willed to the three of us. I will see him in person this summer.
This all came about when we tried to get a Deed of Discharge, clearing the title. It came to light through the family grapevine, that it is not paid off.
Sibling A is in poor health, not working and in their 60s, so forcing the sale of the house is very difficult for me to do. (sibling B does not want this)
so I am left on my own to try and sort it all our from afar.


----------



## Bronte

Thanks for being so forthcoming.  Do you really need the money.  A and B are happy with the status quo.  A is in the house, presumably his family home and in ill health.   With the downturn is your share even worth much, worth evicting him at this stage in his life?  

The bank are presumably not going after the money because A is elderly and ill as I cannot think of another reason for it.  But still it is very strange a bank takes no action on a debt where there is property.  

Interesting that the bank discharged B but kept the guarantee.  Never heard of that before.  Wonder was there something wrong with the documentation or the way the transaction occured in the first place.  

In relation to rent.  Is this a notional rent.  A has no money, is in debt, unemployed and ill?  Focusing in on what you ought to have will only sour you.  

Sad that you are not talking to A at this stage of your lives.  Is it worth it.


----------



## Bronte

trailite;1162911
 
This all came about when [B said:
			
		

> we[/B] tried to get a Deed of Discharge, clearing the title.


 

Who is the 'we' is someone putting pressure on you?


----------



## Neg Covenant

These are just some musings. You need to go to a solicitor to get real advice. I accept no resposibility for the following and I do not hold myself out as having any legal or professional expertise.

It appears you consented to the deeds being held as security for the loan. 
It appears you agreed to an equitable mortgage over your interest although this is not wholly clear.
The loan has not been repaid and the bank will not release their security.
They will not talk to you because you are not a party to the loan.

Your first problem appears to be that you do not have a line of communication with the bank.

You should ask a solicitor to carry out appropriate searches against the property to see what actions if any have been taken. You need to make sure the property was actually registered in your name. You also need to make sure sibling A has not sought to acquire your interest in the property. This was common in the past Ireland where siblings had emigrated an one remained living in the house. This is unlikely if the house was registered in your name less than 12 years ago or if it was agreed that in writing that one sibling would live in the house without acquiring rights but you should check anyway

Assuming the title is in your name, the best approach may be to give your written authority to a solicitor to write to the bank on your behalf. Your solicitor could then write to the bank in the following terms:
1. Confirming the solicitor acts for you.
2. Enclosing the written authority.
3. Confirming you are the legal owner of a one third share in the house.
4. Asking the bank to set out the basis on which it is withholding the title deeds.
5. Asking the bank to set out all circumstances surrounding the matter.
6. Threatenting to go to Court if the bank does not cooperate.

You should also ask your solicitor to write to your siblings in the following terms:
1. Asserting your ownership.
2. Asserting the basis on which one sibling was allowed to remain in the house.
3. Asking them to set out in writing what the position is with the house - is it let? who is in it?
4. Asking for keys and advising that failing your getting keys you will have a locksmith remove the lock and put in a new one (or something like that).

It may be important that you carry out a physical act to assert your ownership when you are back in Ireland. Don't waste the trip.

A bankruptcy/judgment search will not tell you a whole lot.


----------



## trailite

*is thee a public search of a database of people who declare Bankrupt*



Bronte said:


> Thanks for being so forthcoming. Do you really need the money. A and B are happy with the status quo. A is in the house, presumably his family home and in ill health. With the downturn is your share even worth much, worth evicting him at this stage in his life?
> 
> The bank are presumably not going after the money because A is elderly and ill as I cannot think of another reason for it. But still it is very strange a bank takes no action on a debt where there is property.
> 
> Interesting that the bank discharged B but kept the guarantee. Never heard of that before. Wonder was there something wrong with the documentation or the way the transaction occured in the first place.
> 
> In relation to rent. Is this a notional rent. A has no money, is in debt, unemployed and ill? Focusing in on what you ought to have will only sour you.
> 
> Sad that you are not talking to A at this stage of your lives. Is it worth it.[/QUOTE
> *************************************
> 
> To answer some of your questions Bronte,
> 
> I have given on on ever seeing any of the rent that would have been paid
> to myself and sibling B.
> 
> At one time Sibling A could have well afforded the rent.
> 
> Not now, no job as far as I know, and no savings. I don't want to force sale of house either as that would leave Sibling A in a bad situation
> 
> Could I do with the money from sale of house, Yes,. I have three children, one hopes to marry soon, another with a lot of student loans,
> and the youngest would love to go to further education, also.
> 
> My partner is very supportive, (the We, I refer to is him and I) he had to take early retirement due to injury) I am still working and would like to retire.
> (in my 60s) so yes, the money would come in handy if I could get the house sold. No pressure from anyone in my family, neither partner or my children.
> They just find it hard to believe a sibling could treat another sibling the way I have been left out in the cold.
> 
> I have received some great tips on here, to try and put this all together.
> So thank you to all.
> 
> The summer coming up, I will be there, and have already written to my solicitor giving him the most recent happenings.
> Will post back if I have any updates. I plan on getting a key, buying a newspaper, and taking a picture of myself sitting in the living room, with the date of the newspaper clearly showing.
> 
> Sibling A won't be there, Sibling B has a key, Sibling A already knows I am coming (home) and said the key is here, do what you want.
> That might change though, Sibling A has changed the locks in the past and is quite capable of doing so again, so I'm really not sure what will happen.
> 
> The really sad part for me is the split in the family over all of this.
> Six years now, since my last visit., but I still plan on being positive and having a great holiday despite all of this.
> 
> I have a place to stay, even if I cannot stay in the house I partly own.


----------

