# Neighbor's cats



## Aamstrong (29 Jul 2020)

A flat to the back of our garden has about 20 cats. I think the flat may be council owned and has no garden of its own.

Obviously the cats are often in our garden and are causing problems for the kids. What are our rights in this case? I read that cats have a 'right to roam'?


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## Peanuts20 (29 Jul 2020)

Might be worth reporting it to the ISPCA as a starting point, 20 cats in a flat with no garden can not be good for the animals.


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## Up Rovers (29 Jul 2020)

You could try ringing [broken link removed] and ask her for advice.  She is very helpful.


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## Early Riser (29 Jul 2020)

Up Rovers said:


> You could try ringing [broken link removed] and ask her for advice.  She is very helpful.



Does she have a thing about cats?


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## pinkie123 (29 Jul 2020)

Aamstrong said:


> A flat to the back of our garden has about 20 cats. I think the flat may be council owned and has no garden of its own.
> 
> Obviously the cats are often in our garden and are causing problems for the kids. What are our rights in this case? I read that cats have a 'right to roam'?


why are they causing problems for your kids. They may be feral, formerly trapped and neutred, and are being fed by someone. Why do you think that this is any of your business? if they are neglected then fine - call a cat rescue or dspca.


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## elcato (29 Jul 2020)

Get a dog.


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## Grizzly (29 Jul 2020)

pinkie123 said:


> why are they causing problems for your kids. They may be feral, formerly trapped and neutred, and are being fed by someone. Why do you think that this is any of your business?



Did you even read the op's post?



Aamstrong said:


> the cats are often in our garden


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## Purple (29 Jul 2020)

pinkie123 said:


> why are they causing problems for your kids. They may be feral, formerly trapped and neutred, and are being fed by someone. Why do you think that this is any of your business? if they are neglected then fine - call a cat rescue or dspca.


If someone else's pet is in my garden then it's my business. If they can't control their pets then they shouldn't own them. I hate it when cat owners think it's okay for their pets to leave their excrement and bits of their kills in my garden.


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## Páid (29 Jul 2020)

You could try this stuff on the border of your garden. There may be other cats paying you a visit, as well as the ones from the apartment.

I was convinced that a particular dog in my estate was leaving his excrement on my front lawn. I only found out it was a cat after I installed a motion activated camera. I dosed the front lawn with a homemade mixture of black, white and cayenne pepper and the cat hasn't come back.


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## wetday123@ (29 Jul 2020)

I used to have awful problems with cats crapping in my lawn - I too thought it was a dog 'till I saw a cat in the act. The cat belonged to a neighbour but took to doing his toilet in my place. The smell was disgusting, I always knew when he'd 'been'   I tried every product under the sun and spent a fortune but nothing kept him away. I might add he was a huge cat and he left a right mess. He would dig up the lawn and leave tufts of grass over it. I got lucky - he died.  I think cats in housing estates are a no no unless it's kept as an indoor cat- why should someone have to put up with them in their back garden?


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## Aamstrong (29 Jul 2020)

pinkie123 said:


> why are they causing problems for your kids. They may be feral, formerly trapped and neutred, and are being fed by someone. Why do you think that this is any of your business? if they are neglected then fine - call a cat rescue or dspca.


I am not sure if they are neglected which is why I didn't call cat rescue so far. They probably have a great life in everyone else's gardens. The problems are digging holes, excriment, urine and not being able to leave the kids unattended. If you leave a door open they will sometimes even come into the house.

Would like to know if there was some law that could help us, if we contacted the council/landlord.


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## Purple (29 Jul 2020)

Aamstrong said:


> I am not sure if they are neglected which is why I didn't call cat rescue so far. They probably have a great life in everyone else's gardens. The problems are digging holes, excriment, urine and not being able to leave the kids unattended. If you leave a door open they will sometimes even come into the house.
> 
> Would like to know if there was some law that could help us, if we contacted the council/landlord.


If they go into your house just close the door, take off any collar they have on and bring it to the pound where it will either to re-housed faraway from you or, preferably, put down.


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## pinkie123 (29 Jul 2020)

Purple said:


> If they go into your house just close the door, take off any collar they have on and bring it to the pound where it will either to re-housed faraway from you or, preferably, put down.


What kind of person are you to even think of suggesting that? Unbelieveable


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## pinkie123 (29 Jul 2020)

Aamstrong said:


> I am not sure if they are neglected which is why I didn't call cat rescue so far. They probably have a great life in everyone else's gardens. The problems are digging holes, excriment, urine and not being able to leave the kids unattended. If you leave a door open they will sometimes even come into the house.
> 
> Would like to know if there was some law that could help us, if we contacted the council/landlord.


some law? they are animals for god sake. They don't know its your garden, or house. If they come into the house they don't sound feral. Just chase them out of your garden if you don't want them in there.


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## Sue Ellen (29 Jul 2020)

Aamstrong said:


> Would like to know if there was some law that could help us, if we contacted the council/landlord.



Why is why I recommended Gillian Bird as she should be able to advise you on this as she has many, many years experience.


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## Páid (29 Jul 2020)

Purple said:


> If they go into your house just close the door, take off any collar they have on and bring it to the pound where it will either to re-housed faraway from you or, preferably, put down.


You forgot to remove the microchip.


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## Aamstrong (29 Jul 2020)

Sue Ellen said:


> Why is why I recommended Gillian Bird as she should be able to advise you on this as she has many, many years experience.


Thanks Sue!


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## Leper (29 Jul 2020)

pinkie123 said:


> why are they causing problems for your kids. They may be feral, formerly trapped and neutred, and are being fed by someone. Why do you think that this is any of your business? if they are neglected then fine - call a cat rescue or dspca.


1. Like every living creature cats eat and subsequently drop their "puddings" usually not on their own patch. Their "puddings" contain bacteria which can be harmful to humans and can cause blindness in children.
2. Anybody can feed a cat. A two year old child can do it. But, I've never seen any cat lover cleaning up faecies dropped away from the  cats' home  patch.
3. Somebody suggested that the OP should get a dog. Great! - if he wants a dog. But, a possible solution to the problem.
4. If the OP wanted a cat, I'm sure he'd get one. But, it appears he doesn't want a cat and should not have to endure the presence of several cats that he doesn't need or want.
5. I don't know the physical layout of the OP's garden. But, if he can put a wire fence around it he has a chance of preventing cats entering his property. That's of course workable if somebody doesn't cut holes in the fence.
6. There are chemical cat repellents that can be bought, but from what I hear are as next to useless as makes no difference. Stones on flower beds with some citrus peels are useless too.
7. There is no point in chasing cats from your garden, they will just return when they feel like it.
8. Cat owners have an obligation not to inflict their pets on those who don't share that love.
9. We have two dogs that can go from 0 to 60 in four seconds; any cat entering our property would be a brave feline; sorry! probably would be a former brave feline if it can't go from 0 to 61 in three seconds.


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## pinkie123 (29 Jul 2020)

Leper said:


> 1. Like every living creature cats eat and subsequently drop their "puddings" usually not on their own patch. Their "puddings" contain bacteria which can be harmful to humans and can cause blindness in children.
> 2. Anybody can feed a cat. A two year old child can do it. But, I've never seen any cat lover cleaning up facies dropped away from the  cats' home  patch.
> 3. Somebody suggested that the OP should get a dog. Great! - if he wants a dog. But, a possible solution to the problem.
> 4. If the OP wanted a cat, I'm sure he'd get one. But, it appears he doesn't want a cat and should not have to endure the presence of several cats that he doesn't need or want.
> ...


I hope you pick up your dogs poo, Leper, as 90% of dog owners think it ok to leave it on the footpath, or the green where children play. At least cats bury theirs

Seriously, this is not a cat vs dog argument, but wildlife could be in his garden as well, foxes etc. What about birds, they poop! Very annoying when there is washing on the line.
don't get me started on the mice and rats.


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## Leper (29 Jul 2020)

pinkie123 said:


> I hope you pick up your dogs poo, Leper, as 90% of dog owners think it ok to leave it on the footpath, or the green where children play. At least cats bury theirs
> 
> Seriously, this is not a cat vs dog argument, but wildlife could be in his garden as well, foxes etc. What about birds, they poop! Very annoying when there is washing on the line.
> don't get me started on the mice and rats.


1. I am a responsible dog owner and I clean up after them. I abhor anybody who doesn't clean up the droppings of their pets.
2. The subject here is multiple cats invading other peoples' property. Cats kill birds too + mice etc.


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## pinkie123 (29 Jul 2020)

Leper said:


> 1. I am a responsible dog owner and I clean up after them. I abhor anybody who doesn't clean up the droppings of their pets.
> 2. The subject here is multiple cats invading other peoples' property. Cats kill birds too + mice etc.


1. good, but not all dog owners do the same, do we get rid of dogs who's owner dosen't clean up after them?
2. It is the owner that is responsible, there are no suggestions here to go after the owner, but plenty to do harm to the cats

get my point?


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## Leper (29 Jul 2020)

1. The thread is about cats invading a person's garden and the person doesn't want the cats.
2. Most cat owners couldn't give a hash about their neighbours who don't want cats.
3. "Do we get rid of dogs whose owner doesn't clean up after them?" Better again, if we can get rid of the owner.

I don't get your point.,


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## mathepac (29 Jul 2020)

pinkie123 said:


> call a cat rescue or dspca.


Is this a Dublin only problem or do the other SPCAs around the country not deal with cats?


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## Saavy99 (29 Jul 2020)

I get loads of feral cats come into my garden, I feed them r and I'm rewarded with never seeing a rat or mode around the place.


pinkie123 said:


> What kind of person are you to even think of suggesting that? Unbelieveable


I'm sure she was being humorous


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## pinkie123 (29 Jul 2020)

Leper said:


> 1. The thread is about cats invading a person's garden and the person doesn't want the cats.
> 2. Most cat owners couldn't give a hash about their neighbours who don't want cats.
> 3. "Do we get rid of dogs whose owner doesn't clean up after them?" Better again, if we can get rid of the owner.
> 
> I don't get your point.,


My point is deal with the owner. Just because you say most cat owners don't give a 'hash' dosen't give you the right to harm the cats. Its not the cats fault, same as its not the dogs fault if the owner dosen't clean up after them.
It sounds like animal hoarding, and you would be doing the cats a favour by dealing with the owner OP, or a rescue. And it would solve your problem if they were rehomed if it is a welfare issue.


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## gianni (29 Jul 2020)

I have cats in my garden that don't belong to me. They don't bother me. If they did, I wouldn't have any qualms about getting rid of them.


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## David_Dublin (29 Jul 2020)

pinkie123 said:


> I hope you pick up your dogs poo, Leper, as 90% of dog owners think it ok to leave it on the footpath, or the green where children play. At least cats bury theirs
> 
> Seriously, this is not a cat vs dog argument, but wildlife could be in his garden as well, foxes etc. What about birds, they poop! Very annoying when there is washing on the line.
> don't get me started on the mice and rats.



Ah here, 90%. If it was anything near that you would know all about it.

I'll let you in on a little secret too, its just as annoying for dog owners as it is others when dog poo is left not picked up. We dog owners find it just as repulsive and annoying, and we also happen to be just as likely (or maybe 90% as likely??!!) to step in it.


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## Purple (30 Jul 2020)

pinkie123 said:


> What kind of person are you to even think of suggesting that? Unbelieveable


If you had rats in your garden or house would you use traps or poison? 
Rats are more intelligent, more social and make better pets than cats. Why is it okay to kill one animal that invades your home or garden and not another? 
I would certainly prefer a pet rat to a pet cat. When I had rats in the house I used traps and killed one (and felt  bad about it). It was suggested that I get a cat but I can say categorically that I'd prefer to have rats than a cat. I hate cats. That's probably because of all the dead birds and squirrels I found dismembered in my parents garden by the neighbours dead eyed cats as a kid. 
Why should I have to deal with them coming in to my garden or my house because their owner chooses to let them behave like wild animals? 
If you want to own a pet then keep it under control. That applied to every animal other than cats. Why is that?


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## Brendan Burgess (30 Jul 2020)

Purple said:


> When I had rats in the house I used traps and killed one



I was wondering where my pet rat had gone! 

Brendan


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## Purple (30 Jul 2020)

David_Dublin said:


> Ah here, 90%. If it was anything near that you would know all about it.
> 
> I'll let you in on a little secret too, its just as annoying for dog owners as it is others when dog poo is left not picked up. We dog owners find it just as repulsive and annoying, and we also happen to be just as likely (or maybe 90% as likely??!!) to step in it.


I always cleaned up after my dog when she was alive. I see walker's every day and it's years since I saw one not pick up after their dog.


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## Purple (30 Jul 2020)

Brendan Burgess said:


> I was wondering where my pet rat had gone!
> 
> Brendan


Sorry about that... and there's surprisingly little meat on them!


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## pinkie123 (30 Jul 2020)

Purple said:


> If you had rats in your garden or house would you use traps or poison?
> Rats are more intelligent, more social and make better pets than cats. Why is it okay to kill one animal that invades your home or garden and not another?
> I would certainly prefer a pet rat to a pet cat. When I had rats in the house I used traps and killed one (and felt  bad about it). It was suggested that I get a cat but I can say categorically that I'd prefer to have rats than a cat. I hate cats. That's probably because of all the dead birds and squirrels I found dismembered in my parents garden by the neighbours dead eyed cats as a kid.
> Why should I have to deal with them coming in to my garden or my house because their owner chooses to let them behave like wild animals?
> If you want to own a pet then keep it under control. That applied to every animal other than cats. Why is that?



exactly - deal with the owners! but no, just because it is a cat you are happy to poison it. Just because you hate cats, and you think it ok to encourage animal cruelty on a public forum, and whats worse you are allowed do it by the mods.
I can imagine the uproar if it was 'I hate dogs'


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## Brendan Burgess (30 Jul 2020)

Purple said:


> it's years since I saw one not pick up after their dog.



Agree that it's much better.

But there is a lot of dog dirt on the paths.

Brendan


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## pinkie123 (30 Jul 2020)

Saavy99 said:


> I get loads of feral cats come into my garden, I feed them r and I'm rewarded with never seeing a rat or mode around the place.
> 
> I'm sure she was being humorous


no, he wasn't


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## Purple (30 Jul 2020)

pinkie123 said:


> no, he wasn't


It was a mixture, one of those many a true word spoken in jest type of things.


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## Purple (30 Jul 2020)

Brendan Burgess said:


> Agree that it's much better.
> 
> But there is a lot of dog dirt on the paths.
> 
> Brendan


It very much depends on the area. The paths in Cabra  are like an obstacle course, in Glasnevin it's hardly ever seen.   Better class of a dog in Glasnevin.


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## Purple (30 Jul 2020)

pinkie123 said:


> exactly - deal with the owners! but no, just because it is a cat you are happy to poison it. Just because you hate cats, and you think it ok to encourage animal cruelty on a public forum, and whats worse you are allowed do it by the mods.
> I can imagine the uproar if it was 'I hate dogs'


So if your neighbours dog came into your back garden and house to defecated, frightened your children and dug up your lawn you'd be cool with it?

I'll ask you again; if you had mice or rats would you use poison or traps to get rid of them?


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## Early Riser (30 Jul 2020)

Purple said:


> Better class of a dog in Glasnevin.



So, genes or the environment?


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## pinkie123 (30 Jul 2020)

Purple said:


> So if your neighbours dog came into your back garden and house to defecated, frightened your children and dug up your lawn you'd be cool with it?
> 
> I'll ask you again; if you had mice or rats would you use poison or traps to get rid of them?


Of course I wouldn't be happy, but I would deal with the owner, not harm the dog.
You are advocating the opposite because it is a cat.

I only ever had a mouse issue once and the plug ins (forget what they are called but they emit electrical pulses that annoy the mice and they move out) sorted the issue.


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## Purple (30 Jul 2020)

pinkie123 said:


> Of course I wouldn't be happy, but I would deal with the owner, not harm the dog.
> You are advocating the opposite because it is a cat.


 I have no idea who owns the cat in my garden as, let's be honest, they aren't really pets just wild animals who choose to live in your house (like rats but less friendly).



pinkie123 said:


> I only ever had a mouse issue once and the plug ins (forget what they are called but they emit electrical pulses that annoy the mice and they move out) sorted the issue.


 If that didn't work, and it often doesn't, would you just accept that there are rats or mice in your kitchen, eating your food, leaving their waste on your counters, beds and floors, or would you use traps or poison?


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## Purple (30 Jul 2020)

Early Riser said:


> So, genes or the environment?


Who knows. You'd have to ask the dogs.


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## Early Riser (30 Jul 2020)

Purple said:


> Who knows. You'd have to ask the dogs.



Woofly the same, I'm being told.


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## Leo (30 Jul 2020)

pinkie123 said:


> I only ever had a mouse issue once and the plug ins (forget what they are called but they emit electrical pulses that annoy the mice and they move out) sorted the issue.



Just in case anyone else reads this and thinks these devices might be a solution to a rodent problem, studies since the '70s have shown these do not work.


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## SDMXTWO (30 Jul 2020)

pinkie123 said:


> why are they causing problems for your kids. They may be feral, formerly trapped and neutred, and are being fed by someone. Why do you think that this is any of your business? if they are neglected then fine - call a cat rescue or dspca.


Because cats foul and pee and the kids do'nt want to play in it, maybe


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## SDMXTWO (30 Jul 2020)

pinkie123 said:


> I hope you pick up your dogs poo, Leper, as 90% of dog owners think it ok to leave it on the footpath, or the green where children play. At least cats bury theirs
> 
> Seriously, this is not a cat vs dog argument, but wildlife could be in his garden as well, foxes etc. What about birds, they poop! Very annoying when there is washing on the line.
> don't get me started on the mice and rats.


Not all cats bury as they leave it on loose leaves, grass etc. Believe me I know.


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## pinkie123 (30 Jul 2020)

Leo said:


> Just in case anyone else reads this and thinks these devices might be a solution to a rodent problem, studies since the '70s have shown these do not work.


yes cos that is the problem with this thread, not advocating poisoning or getting rid of someones pet.


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## pinkie123 (30 Jul 2020)

SDMXTWO said:


> Because cats foul and pee and the kids do'nt want to play in it, maybe


ok, so deal with the cats owners. what is the issue with this?


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## Futurelookin (30 Jul 2020)

Purple said:


> If you had rats in your garden or house would you use traps or poison?
> Rats are more intelligent, more social and make better pets than cats. Why is it okay to kill one animal that invades your home or garden and not another?
> I would certainly prefer a pet rat to a pet cat. When I had rats in the house I used traps and killed one (and felt  bad about it). It was suggested that I get a cat but I can say categorically that I'd prefer to have rats than a cat. I hate cats. That's probably because of all the dead birds and squirrels I found dismembered in my parents garden by the neighbours dead eyed cats as a kid.
> Why should I have to deal with them coming in to my garden or my house because their owner chooses to let them behave like wild animals?
> If you want to own a pet then keep it under control. That applied to every animal other than cats. Why is that?



Obviously it's subjective as to what makes a better pet. Wouldn't fancy a rat myself but then I wouldn't have a cat either. (the thoughts of them walking on the worktops where we prepare food). But I like cats and would feed one if it came into my garden and have done. In my case when I've had mice I really tried the humane traps. But they're useless and had to revert to old fashioned kill traps to terminate 5 tiny critters. 

However I think there's a big difference between an odd cat coming in to your garden and the OPs issue with large numbers. I would agree that the owner would be the first port of call but really there should be a legal remedy regarding nuisance animals that doesn't require you to take steps to harm the animal. 
I don't have the issue anymore as my dog dissuades cats from hanging around. He is also anti-bird, (has a grudge against a particular seagull who visits daily) anti- fox/squirrel/hedgehog/ and is profoundly racist.


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## pinkie123 (30 Jul 2020)

Futurelookin said:


> Obviously it's subjective as to what makes a better pet. Wouldn't fancy a rat myself but then I wouldn't have a cat either. (the thoughts of them walking on the worktops where we prepare food). But I like cats and would feed one if it came into my garden and have done. In my case when I've had mice I really tried the humane traps. But they're useless and had to revert to old fashioned kill traps to terminate 5 tiny critters.
> 
> However I think there's a big difference between an odd cat coming in to your garden and the OPs issue with large numbers. I would agree that the owner would be the first port of call but really there should be a legal remedy regarding nuisance animals that doesn't require you to take steps to harm the animal.
> I don't have the issue anymore as my dog dissuades cats from hanging around. He is also anti-bird, (has a grudge against a particular seagull who visits daily) anti- fox/squirrel/hedgehog/ and is profoundly racist.



yes this does sound like a hoarding and welfare situation and the OP can get help from animal welfare groups etc.

Instead, some posters have decided its a thread to vent their ant-cat sentiments.


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## Leo (30 Jul 2020)

pinkie123 said:


> ok, so deal with the cats owners. what is the issue with this?



OK, so what would you expect a cat owner to do that would be both effective and humane?


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## Leo (30 Jul 2020)

pinkie123 said:


> yes cos that is the problem with this thread, not advocating poisoning or getting rid of someones pet.



It's important to point out misinformation to prevent others falling for the scam.


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## pinkie123 (30 Jul 2020)

Leo said:


> OK, so what would you expect a cat owner to do that would be both effective and humane?


I don't know, my cats don't roam. But there has to be a better solution than poisoning someones pet or taking away their collar and getting them put down. Seriously?

As I have said plenty of times, the OPs situation sounds like a welfare/hoarding issue/


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## pinkie123 (30 Jul 2020)

Leo said:


> It's important to point out misinformation to prevent others falling for the scam.


Its not a scam, and they did work for me. I am not talking about the sonar ones btw its the ones that use the electrical pulses, something like this:

[broken link removed]


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## Purple (30 Jul 2020)

Leo said:


> OK, so what would you expect a cat owner to do that would be both effective and humane?


A goalkeepers Hurley and a pair of welders gloves?
There's a fair big of weight in one of those; properly wielded the cat wouldn't feel a thing.


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## Purple (30 Jul 2020)

pinkie123 said:


> yes this does sound like a hoarding and welfare situation and the OP can get help from animal welfare groups etc.
> 
> Instead, some posters have decided its a thread to vent their ant-cat sentiments.


It's not just cats, it's any vermin that comes into the garden, kills the little birds and squirrels, leaves their dismembered corpses strewn across the place and then defecates the remaining remains of the poor creatures onto the grass and flower beds where children could get it on their hands and into their eyes.


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## SparkRite (30 Jul 2020)

pinkie123 said:


> Its not a scam, and they did work for me. I am not talking about the sonar ones btw its the ones that use the electrical pulses, something like this:
> 
> [broken link removed]



You do realise that these are still sonic ( or 'sonar', if you prefer) based repellents, just may be more efficient in spreading the ultrasonic wave throughout the house.

Personally I never had much success with these type of deterrents , just drove the kids mad. God bless their hearing range.


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## pinkie123 (30 Jul 2020)

SparkRite said:


> You do relaise that these are still sonic ( or 'sonar', if you prefer) based repellents, just may be more efficient in spreading the ultrasonic wave throughout the house.



forgive me for getting a word wrong.

Yet someone can suggest a harmful end to someones pet and thats ok.


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## Purple (30 Jul 2020)

pinkie123 said:


> forgive me for getting a word wrong.
> 
> Yet someone can suggest a harmful end to someones pet and thats ok.


You can't underestimate the importance of correct syntax and punctuation, let alone wording. 
As a cat lover you should be aware that they are also sticklers for these things.


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## Leo (30 Jul 2020)

pinkie123 said:


> Its not a scam, and they did work for me. I am not talking about the sonar ones btw its the ones that use the electrical pulses, something like this:
> 
> [broken link removed]



No, it is absolutely a scam. Independent tests (i.e., those not paid for be the manufacturers) have proven they have no long term effect, mice quite happily live right beside the emitters. In most cases the electromagnetic field emitted from these devices is no more than the background level of the earth's magnetic field a short distance away. If they were powerful enough to deter rodents, they'd affect pets, yet these are always pet-safe for some reason   

I had a mouse once, but I bought a new car and I've never had one since! So that worked for me.


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## SparkRite (30 Jul 2020)

Leo said:


> I had a mouse once, but I bought a new car and I've never had one since! So that worked for me.




Now, now......


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## Brendan Burgess (30 Jul 2020)

I think that the OP has had enough suggestions on what to do now. 

Brendan


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