I don't think he mentioned divorce, I don't know where that came from. Neo, ask your MIL that you hope she has put away enough for her nursing home fees or will you have to pay that too in the future? Time to start thinking about your kids and your responsibility towards them and their future eduction etc.
Your mother in law may very well be liable for Gift Tax on the payments made to her if the threshold is exceeded !
I hate to burden you further but you may very well have a secondary liability !
Check www.revenue.ie
I hate to burden you further but you may very well have a secondary liability !
Check www.revenue.ie
paddyodoors
Registered User
- Messages
- 293
Read the original post - option number 5
Whatever you do, include your wife in thedecision making process.
Simply opening an account in your name and note telling her will drive her towards her mother.
I know a mother in law like that and I know it took a year and a half of arguments before the wife understood the husband's position, and she still didn't like it.
Another six months on and she's wondering what was she thinking originally.
You have to bring your wife with you on this or risk losing her, and you have to be even handed to both sets of parents even though you are the sole breadwinner.
And when you have won your point and stabilised the finances, you should keep a log book of just how many ingenious ways your MIL will try to make your life miserable.
She will eventually cop on, but she's not in a happy place with no major income and her best years passing by.
Get her to take up ballroom dancing or something - anything to curb her spendthrift ways and engage her with people her own age.
She's ranging herself against you guys, you know?
Completely unreasonably, she feels she should be enjoying your success.
Some people are just like that.
FWIW
ONQ.
Simply opening an account in your name and note telling her will drive her towards her mother.
I know a mother in law like that and I know it took a year and a half of arguments before the wife understood the husband's position, and she still didn't like it.
Another six months on and she's wondering what was she thinking originally.
You have to bring your wife with you on this or risk losing her, and you have to be even handed to both sets of parents even though you are the sole breadwinner.
And when you have won your point and stabilised the finances, you should keep a log book of just how many ingenious ways your MIL will try to make your life miserable.
She will eventually cop on, but she's not in a happy place with no major income and her best years passing by.
Get her to take up ballroom dancing or something - anything to curb her spendthrift ways and engage her with people her own age.
She's ranging herself against you guys, you know?
Completely unreasonably, she feels she should be enjoying your success.
Some people are just like that.
FWIW
ONQ.
Seems to me like your wife is the crux of the problem and by extension - her relationship with her mother.
1. She sees nothing wrong in 'giving' her family up to €1000/month of your wages.
2. She prefers to hide this fact from you.
3. Seems like your MIL is pulling all the strings in this relationship and is the dominant one over your wife.
I'd bring her away for a day or two and put the facts to her telling her how you feel. If she cannot see the damage this is doing to your marraige and by extension to your own family then surely you need to consider the next step.
Good luck.
1. She sees nothing wrong in 'giving' her family up to €1000/month of your wages.
2. She prefers to hide this fact from you.
3. Seems like your MIL is pulling all the strings in this relationship and is the dominant one over your wife.
I'd bring her away for a day or two and put the facts to her telling her how you feel. If she cannot see the damage this is doing to your marraige and by extension to your own family then surely you need to consider the next step.
Good luck.
Amazing situation in this post.
I would agree with the posters who say not to unilaterally move your money to an account in your name - that will only fuel the fires and give your MIL ammunition in making the case against you. Also as others have pointed out the arrangement for your wife to stop working was a joint family one, so taking away her access to the money would need to be a joint one also.
What you need to do is educate your wife in the ways of the world - paying money to family is something that is done out of kindness and out of disposable income. Before any of this happens your family (where the money originates) needs to evaluate their needs, both short term and long term and then work out what disposable income is left and which might be available for others outside the immediate family. It's not just a question of short term figures and your wife needs to understand this. You need to provide for education, for your own retirement, for house buying (if you want to buy), etc . . . these are long term things that you need to have a plan for and which you need to be funding over time. If close family members continually have first call on your money in the short term you will find it hard to treat this money as yours (which it obviously is).
It sounds like you are paying out a huge proportion of your after tax income to family members. Perhaps you should do the sums clearly and show it to your wife. Let's jsut say that it's 33% of your income that you are giving away - ask if she thinks this is reasonable. If she does, then ask would she thinks 40% would be reasonable, and then 50% . . . then ask at what point she thinks she would draw the line. This may help to realise what a huge amount of money you are giving away.
Also, if there was something she wanted to get recently but couldn't (that extra week in Spain, the new fridge, new outfit . . .) or where she had to settle for something a little less flash than she wanted, point out that if you hadn't paid over just one month of money to your family and hers she could have had it.
Finally, I'm with some of the other posters above - how much income do the various people already get ? What are their outgoings ? How could they possibly need this amount of *extra* money ? Sure, it's nice to get extra money (I wouldn't say no . . .), but in reality are they just using it because it's made available or because they perhaps made some unwise property investments or something and have huge outgoings ? What I'm getting at here is do they actually have huge financial commitments which you are paying ? Maybe they say they would like to upgrade the car, think about the finances and then say "Oh, it's OK, NEO will top it up."
Finally, finally, don't forget that you can have all the restrictions on money in the accounts that you want, but as long as someone has a credit card or an ATM card there will be ways to get around it - occasional visits to Tesco with her mother with everything going on one bill, etc . . .
z
I would agree with the posters who say not to unilaterally move your money to an account in your name - that will only fuel the fires and give your MIL ammunition in making the case against you. Also as others have pointed out the arrangement for your wife to stop working was a joint family one, so taking away her access to the money would need to be a joint one also.
What you need to do is educate your wife in the ways of the world - paying money to family is something that is done out of kindness and out of disposable income. Before any of this happens your family (where the money originates) needs to evaluate their needs, both short term and long term and then work out what disposable income is left and which might be available for others outside the immediate family. It's not just a question of short term figures and your wife needs to understand this. You need to provide for education, for your own retirement, for house buying (if you want to buy), etc . . . these are long term things that you need to have a plan for and which you need to be funding over time. If close family members continually have first call on your money in the short term you will find it hard to treat this money as yours (which it obviously is).
It sounds like you are paying out a huge proportion of your after tax income to family members. Perhaps you should do the sums clearly and show it to your wife. Let's jsut say that it's 33% of your income that you are giving away - ask if she thinks this is reasonable. If she does, then ask would she thinks 40% would be reasonable, and then 50% . . . then ask at what point she thinks she would draw the line. This may help to realise what a huge amount of money you are giving away.
Also, if there was something she wanted to get recently but couldn't (that extra week in Spain, the new fridge, new outfit . . .) or where she had to settle for something a little less flash than she wanted, point out that if you hadn't paid over just one month of money to your family and hers she could have had it.
Finally, I'm with some of the other posters above - how much income do the various people already get ? What are their outgoings ? How could they possibly need this amount of *extra* money ? Sure, it's nice to get extra money (I wouldn't say no . . .), but in reality are they just using it because it's made available or because they perhaps made some unwise property investments or something and have huge outgoings ? What I'm getting at here is do they actually have huge financial commitments which you are paying ? Maybe they say they would like to upgrade the car, think about the finances and then say "Oh, it's OK, NEO will top it up."
Finally, finally, don't forget that you can have all the restrictions on money in the accounts that you want, but as long as someone has a credit card or an ATM card there will be ways to get around it - occasional visits to Tesco with her mother with everything going on one bill, etc . . .
z
G
Guest122
Guest
Pure Wind Up...
goingforgold
Registered User
- Messages
- 318
+1
Think this is a joke
Here we have a family man in his mid 30's, on a huge salary, with no house or investments of his own apart from 10K and yet is giving away thousands each month to anyone who wants it!
The question has been asked and not answered: What are your MIL and BIL doing with their dole money? Why do they need all this extra money?
Think this is a joke
Here we have a family man in his mid 30's, on a huge salary, with no house or investments of his own apart from 10K and yet is giving away thousands each month to anyone who wants it!
The question has been asked and not answered: What are your MIL and BIL doing with their dole money? Why do they need all this extra money?
N
Neo
Guest
First, thanks everyone for your advice. Some posters have put a lot of effort into long detailed replies. I appreciate it greatly.
Second, I am sorry that I have not been able to reply frequently. Due to the sensitive nature, I have to wait until I am alone, to post.
To answer some of your questions
MIL got a redundancy package in 2003. Started a lifestyle she couldn't afford, and now has credit card and loans debts totaling $15,000. Most of her income goes to pay off her debts. I try not to be hypocritical, (upset she saw my payslip but demanding to know her income) but I gather that she was means tested when she still had half her redundancy package, which meant she was not getting a full dole, but she managed to bring part of her pension forward. So she gets about €1,000 a month. She is going to try and get means tested again.
BIL gets jobseekers allowance/benefit of about 100 a week. FIL is not really in the picture. He does not live with MIL. Doesn't pay child support because BIL is over 18.
In the last few months BIL has tried looking for jobs but he dosent have his leaving cert and he is competing with college graduates for the simple jobs. Maybe I can convince him to join the army
My parents bring in about $1,200 per month from a private pension. They get most things they are entitled to. My father was a factory worker.
Before we married my net pay was 6,000 and wife was 2,000. Please do not think I am a saint or unusually generous, and willy nilly hand out money, but at the time, giving 10% (600) to my parents, seemed immaterial. A small amount to me but a great deal to them. As I said, I could not enjoy myself knowing they were scrimping. I didn't want to be middle class while they were still lower class. Maybe since the recession, I have felt fortunate to still have a job and a moral obligation to share with those less fortunate than myself.
Also before we married, wife was staying with MIL and contributing to the daily expenses in that household. When we married, she left their house and that left a hole in their budget. I tried to be open and fair. We were bringing home 8,000. Giving 600 to her family and 600 to mine seemed fair and the right thing to do.
I will look into Deed of Covenant and Gift tax. I was also thinking of buying MIL's house from MIL and stating that these money's should be put towards the purchase price. But at the moment, I don't want to create any other liabilities e.g stamp duty. Maybe we can agree that rather than sell it to me, she leaves it to my son in her will. I will look into it.
From the replies I now think that this is probably more a relationship issue than a money issue and the recession has made normal people act crazy. Another attempt at a sane discussion with wife seems to be the best step, after all, we did marry. And there was something in those vows about "in sickness and in health, through rich and through poor, till death do we part"
I deeply thank you all for your replies. You are the best. I wish I had the time to send you each a private thank you pm.
Second, I am sorry that I have not been able to reply frequently. Due to the sensitive nature, I have to wait until I am alone, to post.
To answer some of your questions
MIL got a redundancy package in 2003. Started a lifestyle she couldn't afford, and now has credit card and loans debts totaling $15,000. Most of her income goes to pay off her debts. I try not to be hypocritical, (upset she saw my payslip but demanding to know her income) but I gather that she was means tested when she still had half her redundancy package, which meant she was not getting a full dole, but she managed to bring part of her pension forward. So she gets about €1,000 a month. She is going to try and get means tested again.
BIL gets jobseekers allowance/benefit of about 100 a week. FIL is not really in the picture. He does not live with MIL. Doesn't pay child support because BIL is over 18.
In the last few months BIL has tried looking for jobs but he dosent have his leaving cert and he is competing with college graduates for the simple jobs. Maybe I can convince him to join the army
My parents bring in about $1,200 per month from a private pension. They get most things they are entitled to. My father was a factory worker.
Before we married my net pay was 6,000 and wife was 2,000. Please do not think I am a saint or unusually generous, and willy nilly hand out money, but at the time, giving 10% (600) to my parents, seemed immaterial. A small amount to me but a great deal to them. As I said, I could not enjoy myself knowing they were scrimping. I didn't want to be middle class while they were still lower class. Maybe since the recession, I have felt fortunate to still have a job and a moral obligation to share with those less fortunate than myself.
Also before we married, wife was staying with MIL and contributing to the daily expenses in that household. When we married, she left their house and that left a hole in their budget. I tried to be open and fair. We were bringing home 8,000. Giving 600 to her family and 600 to mine seemed fair and the right thing to do.
I will look into Deed of Covenant and Gift tax. I was also thinking of buying MIL's house from MIL and stating that these money's should be put towards the purchase price. But at the moment, I don't want to create any other liabilities e.g stamp duty. Maybe we can agree that rather than sell it to me, she leaves it to my son in her will. I will look into it.
From the replies I now think that this is probably more a relationship issue than a money issue and the recession has made normal people act crazy. Another attempt at a sane discussion with wife seems to be the best step, after all, we did marry. And there was something in those vows about "in sickness and in health, through rich and through poor, till death do we part"
I deeply thank you all for your replies. You are the best. I wish I had the time to send you each a private thank you pm.
Isn't this the real issue here?
You married and made your vows to your wife and not to both your families, lazy BIL etc.
Simplify your problems now by concentrating on yourself, wife and child and your future together or you may not have one - or are you actually looking for a way out?
Why not see a relationship/marriage guidance counsellor as mediator if you need to make "attempts" to have a "sane" discussion with your wife?
truthseeker
Registered User
- Messages
- 2,577
No doubt the conversations in the past and your wife secretly passing money along to her mother has made this topic a difficult one to broach without tempers and denial rising high.
I would suggest you draw out the figures of what happens your money monthly, incomings and outgoings in a clear and easy to read manner.
Highlight the amount going to MIL and your own parents and ask your wife to have a discussion on such in a calm manner. Express to her that the conversation is futile if she puts up a wall of denial and that you need her to know that what you are trying to do is find an optimal solution to be fair to everyone.
Dont harp on to her about her mothers money wasting ways, keep it to what YOU can afford and whats appropriate. And be clear about your hopes for the future (owning a home, putting away savings, securing your future, securing your childs future).
Try to be objective, the biggest barrier you have here is your wifes sense of responsibility to her mother. Its difficult to change people and its difficult to changes peoples perceptions of their responsibilities - especially with the MIL actively asking your wife for funds. The amount you outline as the MIl receiving each month is a good amount of money - her debt is not your fault and it shouldnt be your responsibility.
Good luck with it - you sound like a very nice person who has been taken advantage of and put into a nasty position.
I think if you state your case now in a calm, clear and friendly manner you will save yourself a lot of pain in the future.
Y
Yorrick
Guest
When you say that your mother in law will hate you I have to think of Billy Connolly.
His wife Pamela Stephenson is a psychotherapist. Billy was sitting in the waiting room somewhere in Los Angeles. There was an older woman and a younger woman waiting also. Billy asked them what was their problems. The younger woman said "This woman is my mother in law and I can't understand why we do not like each other"
Billys answer was " What ever gave you the idea that you should ?
Don't worry about people who are prepared to rip you off hating you.
If you keep pumping money into the the joint account your wife will keep taking it.
Open another account. Give her an allowance and let her whistle.
His wife Pamela Stephenson is a psychotherapist. Billy was sitting in the waiting room somewhere in Los Angeles. There was an older woman and a younger woman waiting also. Billy asked them what was their problems. The younger woman said "This woman is my mother in law and I can't understand why we do not like each other"
Billys answer was " What ever gave you the idea that you should ?
Don't worry about people who are prepared to rip you off hating you.
If you keep pumping money into the the joint account your wife will keep taking it.
Open another account. Give her an allowance and let her whistle.
Can i get a job there please??
In this case, I am going to assume firstly that whatever solution is agreed will still involve giving some money to Mother in Law. I am also gong to assume that she is not the sort of woman who is prepared to unilaterally do away with the credit card. it might also be worth insisting that - as a condition of getting any further financial assistance - your Mother in law should cut up her credit card. I am always wary of interfering in the affairs of in laws. But in this case it seems warranted.