What left wing politicians should tell their electorate

[Betsy Og]

A recipe for success & happiness:

1. No longer think of yourself as a victim, take control of your own life, take responsibility for your own choices. Don't listen to people who try to convince you you are powerless in the face of a right wing conspiracy, they are not helping. Adopt the mantra "You can't keep a good man down", and be relentless in your efforts to prove it.
2. Take an interest in your child's education. Sit down with them and go through their homework, emphasise that a good education can allow them to do what they want to do.
3. Get healthy, give up cigs, go easy on drink, lose weight, start exercising.
4. Invest in your kids with the money saved on 3 above, better food, sports, encourage any interests, hobbies or talents they have. [Why do we have "breakfast clubs" at school when we pay out children's allowance??]
5. Invest in yourself, there are many free courses available, how does anyone get a job except by making themselves employable, i.e. having the skills employers want and presenting well. These are attainable, but it takes effort, the effort is well rewarded.
6. Be a positive influence on your community whether just by keeping your own property tidy, or by helping in the wider community.
7. Limit your family number so you can provide better for the fewer. Delay having kids so you can establish a career or get your skills before you have to mind kids.

I've never heard any left winger make these reasonable self-evident points because a) it sounds too much like hard work, b) there's an inference of disapproval of the status quo & c) if people realised that they themselves, and not some "shining knight" with their magical snake oil, are going to improve things then why vote for their "champion".

Of all the above it is the re-inforcement of the powerless victim notion that is the most damaging of the left wing, how can you get continually fed that and not feel unmotivated?, 'comforted' by the notion that you cant do anything so it is pointless trying.

 

[so-crates]

The history of the left is founded on a college educated elite patronising the masses - why would they change a magic formula? Have a look at most of our own left wing politicos.

 

[thedaddyman]

in fairness, there are points on here that "right wingers" should also consider, how many bankers forget about their responsibilities to the wider community rather then their own wallet.? Plenty of spoilt rich brats with a sense of entitlement out there whose parents took no interest in them. And whilst I am not a leftie, I know plenty of people who voted left who are in good paying jobs and who are involved in the community and "do their bit"

 

[Betsy Og]

Definitely, there is nothing there that doesn't apply to everyone on this island, but it just seems the message has gotten through/has dawned on more people in the centre or the right. So my point is that the people most in need of the message are being let down by activists/politicians claiming to act in the interest of the common man.

 

[odyssey06]

It sounds too much like hard work... and don't forget the message, if you have worked hard, don't feel guilty if you appreciate the rewards that it brings.
It's a lot easier to pretend that there's a bottomless pit of money that you are entitled to your fair share of, and get people to vote for you to give money from Peter to Paul, than it actually is to earn that money, or increase the limited pile of money available to all.
And the politician that gets a vote like that has zero incentive for raising Paul out of dependency.

Right wing and left wing are such loaded terms, I think it's better (to borrow the terms from Thomas Sowell), to speak of constrained and unconstrained visions.
It doesn't quite track to right v left... Reckless bankers are unconstrained. Bottom up environmentalists and conservationists are constrained - but top down ones are not.

The constrained view knows that we face unhappy choices, that actions have consequences and that we are limited in what we can do. If we do X we cannot do Y, because we now no longer have the time or money. The constrained view starts from the position of what we can do. They are more likely to judge things based on the process\rules that decided it.
The unconstrained view is more likely to present arguments from the abstract as to what we should do. They are more likely to judge based on outcomes.

"Those who see the potentialities of human nature as extending far beyond what is currently manifested have a social vision quite different from those who see human
beings as tragically limited creatures whose selfish and dangerous impulses can be contained only by social contrivances which themselves produce unhappy side effects. Running through the tradition of the unconstrained vision is the conviction that foolish or immoral choices explain the evils of the world - and that wiser or more moral and humane social policies are the solution.
By contrast, the constrained vision sees the evils of the world as deriving from the limited and unhappy choices available, given the inherent moral and intellectual limitations of human beings. For the amelioration of these evils and the promotion of progress, they rely on... certain social processes such as moral traditions, the marketplace, or families. They conceive of these processes as evolved rather than designed - and rely on these general patterns of social interaction rather than on specific policy designed to produce particular results for particular individuals and groups."

 

[Deiseblue]

8. Vote for Renua coz they are the only right of centre party left !

 

[Firefly]

A recipe for success & happiness:

1. No longer think of yourself as a victim, take control of your own life, take responsibility for your own choices. Don't listen to people who try to convince you you are powerless in the face of a right wing conspiracy, they are not helping. Adopt the mantra "You can't keep a good man down", and be relentless in your efforts to prove it.
2. Take an interest in your child's education. Sit down with them and go through their homework, emphasise that a good education can allow them to do what they want to do.
3. Get healthy, give up cigs, go easy on drink, lose weight, start exercising.
4. Invest in your kids with the money saved on 3 above, better food, sports, encourage any interests, hobbies or talents they have. [Why do we have "breakfast clubs" at school when we pay out children's allowance??]
5. Invest in yourself, there are many free courses available, how does anyone get a job except by making themselves employable, i.e. having the skills employers want and presenting well. These are attainable, but it takes effort, the effort is well rewarded.
6. Be a positive influence on your community whether just by keeping your own property tidy, or by helping in the wider community.
7. Limit your family number so you can provide better for the fewer. Delay having kids so you can establish a career or get your skills before you have to mind kids.

I've never heard any left winger make these reasonable self-evident points because a) it sounds too much like hard work, b) there's an inference of disapproval of the status quo & c) if people realised that they themselves, and not some "shining knight" with their magical snake oil, are going to improve things then why vote for their "champion".

Of all the above it is the re-inforcement of the powerless victim notion that is the most damaging of the left wing, how can you get continually fed that and not feel unmotivated?, 'comforted' by the notion that you cant do anything so it is pointless trying.

Betsy, just as well you didn't run in the election. 7 non-PC opinions like that wouldn't get you far. Having said that, you'd get my vote!

 

[Cervelo]

8. Vote for Renua coz they are the only right of centre party left !

I would have said
8. Don't take a career path that will result in earning more the €100,000 or you will be penalised for been successful in said career.

 

[Betsy Og]

Betsy, just as well you didn't run in the election. 7 non-PC opinions like that wouldn't get you far. Having said that, you'd get my vote!

I know, I know, the first job of a politician is to get re-elected and conventional wisdom says that you keep the base as wide as possible. However does AAA worry about alienating taxpayers, water charge payers?, I suggest not. Given their polarising influence and the loss of the left wing vote to the radicals (the Labour party couldnt get any of it, why should FF & FG bother trying to compete for it), I think the likes of FG should start playing to their audience.

Overall though, I think the 7 points above are worth saying & discussing, even if not politically expedient or palatable.

 

[Daffodils]

Re. no 7. There is nothing wrong with having a big family if you can provide for them (yourself not via the state). Providing doesn't have to include iPads & designer clothes. Also there is nothing wrong with being a stay at home mother. I get judged for being a working mother, but as far as I am concerned each to their own once you can afford it.

 

[odyssey06]

I would also add... watch out for poverty traps. They are very easy to fall into but they are very hard to escape.

 

[Purple]

I would also add... watch out for poverty traps. They are very easy to fall into but they are very hard to escape.

I agree. Our current system, and more importantly our current mind set, creates so many of them.

 

[Daffodils]

"Breakfast clubs" that are funded by the state ensure that children aren't hungry for the day while in school getting an education. I think when you came up with your 7 golden nuggets of wisdom you forgot that not everyone is the same, there will always be poverty no matter what the government do. The idea of providing additional supports to those people is to help them out of the poverty trap!! While I agree people should help themselves & it pains me to leave my kids at home while others get to stay with the kids all day at the expense of the taxpayers, the condescending tone of the op makes my blood boil. If life was as easy as following 1-7 above we could do away with social welfare, obviously it's not...

 

[Purple]

8. Vote for Renua coz they are the only right of centre party left !

That comment shows that you don't get the context of this thread and are trapped in the rhetoric of a bankrupt ideology.
Left Wing politics has betrayed the people who they claim to support. From reading the diary's of my Uncle who was a founding member of SIPTU he would be disgusted by what the Trade Union movement has become.
He fought for the right of working people to have equality of opportunity, not to create a parasitic underclass which tarnished the reputation of everyone who is unemployed.

 

[Purple]

"Breakfast clubs" that are funded by the state ensure that children aren't hungry for the day while in school getting an education. I think when you came up with your 7 golden nuggets of wisdom you forgot that not everyone is the same, there will always be poverty no matter what the government do. The idea of providing additional supports to those people is to help them out of the poverty trap!! While I agree people should help themselves & it pains me to leave my kids at home while others get to stay with the kids all day at the expense of the taxpayers, the condescending tone of the op makes my blood boil. If life was as easy as following 1-7 above we could do away with social welfare, obviously it's not...

It's that simple, for many people, but it's not easy.
My kids sometimes go to school without breakfast. That's because they don't get out of bed on time.
Lidl cornflakes, porridge, toast etc. are a few cents per portion. There is no economic reason why kids shouldn't have breakfast.
Poverty is a symptom of a social problem. It is not a root cause in it's own right.

 

[Delboy]

"Breakfast clubs" that are funded by the state ensure that children aren't hungry for the day while in school getting an education. I think when you came up with your 7 golden nuggets of wisdom you forgot that not everyone is the same, there will always be poverty no matter what the government do. The idea of providing additional supports to those people is to help them out of the poverty trap!! While I agree people should help themselves & it pains me to leave my kids at home while others get to stay with the kids all day at the expense of the taxpayers, the condescending tone of the op makes my blood boil. If life was as easy as following 1-7 above we could do away with social welfare, obviously it's not...

A 1kg or so Bag of porridge costs €1.50 from Aldi. You can make it with water (free forever by the looks of it now!) or milk...5 minutes work on the hob or nuke it in the MW if thats your thing....add a small bit of fruit (49c specials at Aldi/Lidl every week...29c this week)...and hey presto, the kids won't be hungry. And it'll cost less than €1 per week.

But some people don't want to know. And it makes the do-gooders feel fuzzy inside to provide the service via the State rather than make parents responsible for even the most basic of things

 

[Betsy Og]

"Breakfast clubs" that are funded by the state ensure that children aren't hungry for the day while in school getting an education. I think when you came up with your 7 golden nuggets of wisdom you forgot that not everyone is the same, there will always be poverty no matter what the government do. The idea of providing additional supports to those people is to help them out of the poverty trap!! While I agree people should help themselves & it pains me to leave my kids at home while others get to stay with the kids all day at the expense of the taxpayers, the condescending tone of the op makes my blood boil. If life was as easy as following 1-7 above we could do away with social welfare, obviously it's not...

I know what breakfast clubs are, the point or question was: Is there any good reason why children cannot be fed at home?, how much is a bag of Flahavans oatlets?, where is the children's allowance going? Feeding your kids should be your first priority - the fact that that is nearly alien to some people shows how far things have gone.

The stay at home mother thing is not relevant to the discussion, some work some don't, I dont think its the women going out to work who are leaving their kids hungry if thats what you mangled out of it. As the great bastion of the left, ahem, Joan Burton rightly said "Social welfare is to help people as they get back to work, not a lifestyle choice". Did I once mention abolishing SW?, no.

 

[Daffodils]

I agree there is no economic reason. It's due to bad parents who probably spend the money on drink & drugs. Should the children be left to suffer because of their parents? I wouldn't want to be part of a society where a child is left go hungry.

 

[Betsy Og]

I agree there is no economic reason. It's due to bad parents who probably spend the money on drink & drugs. Should the children be left to suffer because of their parents? I wouldn't want to be part of a society where a child is left go hungry.

Isn't that why we have social services?, to ensure the kids dont suffer. I dont want to see hungry kids I want to see parents getting sorted out, whether by carrot or stick.

 

[Daffodils]

Free water yippee

Do you think food stamps would make the parents buy food? Most likely not. I'm certainly not a do gooder sometimes I wish I was. I'm just being realistic. The parents need fixing. It's not about the price of food everyone knows that it's about bad parenting and parents that are lazy drug addicts or have mental health issues and who don't look after their children.