Life what effect does "depression" have on life assurance or mortgage protection premiums?

Re: what effect does "depression" have on life assurance or mortgage protection premi

Your question seems to be "Will you get away with not disclosing a material fact on an insurance application form?"

Deliberate non-disclosure is a form of fraud as insurance policies are legal contracts, of which the application form is a part, so I'd rather not go there.
 
Re: what effect does "depression" have on life assurance or mortgage protection premi

Why do people constantly have issues with telling the truth on insurance application forms?

On any life application you sign a declaration. If you lie you don't have cover it's as simple as that.

All types of lies are covered none are acceptable. White lies are not covered, nor are bold faced lies, lying by omission is not covered, nor are untruths, deception, false information.......

If a claim occurs you will have no cover so if you find it difficult to tell the truth then don't waste your money purchasing insurance.
 
Re: what effect does "depression" have on life assurance or mortgage protection premi

Relax. This is an issue that has caused a person with depression to suffer worse, so forgive me if I insulted a corporation by trying to help the individual. Perhaps they should not worry so much, break the law and feel just as accountable as the bankers have been...or did they not have issues telling the truth. I assume they would also be on your high horse.
 
Re: what effect does "depression" have on life assurance or mortgage protection premi

I agree there is not too much evidence in certain levels of the financial services industry that demonstrate an admirable example and I'd have to say in that respect you are correct in your view. I hope you understand the substance of my posting like Liam's is a statement of fact.
 
Re: what effect does "depression" have on life assurance or mortgage protection premi

So because a bank has been run in a dishonest way (not denying that there have been sickening numbers of examples of this), is it therefore morally or ethically acceptable for individuals to lie to a life assurance company?
 
Re: what effect does "depression" have on life assurance or mortgage protection premi

Sumatra said:
Why do people constantly have issues with telling the truth on insurance application forms?

On any life application you sign a declaration. If you lie you don't have cover it's as simple as that.

All types of lies are covered none are acceptable. White lies are not covered, nor are bold faced lies, lying by omission is not covered, nor are untruths, deception, false information.......

If a claim occurs you will have no cover so if you find it difficult to tell the truth then don't waste your money purchasing insurance.
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I don't disagree with your principle, but there is a question of materiality here. I recall some case(s) from the Insurance Ombudsman where the insurer was attempting to withhold payment on grounds of non-material facts being declared on the proposal form, but the Ombudsman made them pay up.
 
Re: what effect does "depression" have on life assurance or mortgage protection premi

The Ombudsman rules on complaints in an independent and impartial manner and remember not all complaints are upheld. A person who has acted fraudulently won't get a decision that goes against what society finds is an unlawful thing to do. Fraud is fraud. In the case of a life assurance policy you are usually talking about large sums and in a death claim for example, there would be a full investigation and a claim repudiated if the non disclosure is related to the cause of death.

The bottom line is some people do lie on proposal forms and they do obtain a policy. Obtaining a policy seems to offer them comfort of thinking their loved ones are protected. In their consciousness they can only percieve a claim may not go as planned and I'm sure that worries them. So for these individuals where is the peace of mind that having life cover is supposed to create?
 
Re: what effect does "depression" have on life assurance or mortgage protection premi

Tell that to the posters friend. You may think that should be high on their priority list, but as some have pointed out above the behaviour of some insurance companies is not always 'honest', maybe posters friend should worry about themselves 1st instead of getting worked up over what an insurance company considers 'honest' or even fair or right.
Sorry if that flies in the face of what you consider 'honest' to such companies. It's as if to suggest there is no moral code of right or wrong above that what is declared or not to the likes of a life assurance company.
 
Re: what effect does "depression" have on life assurance or mortgage protection premi

There will always be some people who feel it is their 'entitlement' to deceive insurance companies. The practice of deceit and fraud is wrong at all times and for that reason I don't think our views on the subject are compatible.
 
Re: what effect does "depression" have on life assurance or mortgage protection premi

Ceatharlach said:
Tell that to the posters friend. You may think that should be high on their priority list, but as some have pointed out above the behaviour of some insurance companies is not always 'honest', maybe posters friend should worry about themselves 1st instead of getting worked up over what an insurance company considers 'honest' or even fair or right.
Sorry if that flies in the face of what you consider 'honest' to such companies. It's as if to suggest there is no moral code of right or wrong above that what is declared or not to the likes of a life assurance company.
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The viewpoint seems to be shifting from "Banks have acted dishonestly therefore it's okay to lie to insurance companies" from earlier, to "Insurance companies have acted dishonestly therefore it's okay to lie to insurance companies".

Where above has it been pointed out that the behaviour of some insurance companies is not always 'honest', by the way?

By your reasoning, if an insurance company does something dishonest, is it okay to lie to just that insurance company or does that make it okay to lie to insurance companies in general?
 
Re: what effect does "depression" have on life assurance or mortgage protection premi

Have you ever broken the speed limit or bought a pint in a pub a few minutes after hours. These things are illegal but I wouldn't say you rushed forward to declare it. Life assurance is neccessary to be able to have a mortgage - you dont even have a choice in it. If you did then they probably wouldn't try to penalise and exploit every single condition via increased premium. They write the law and irregardless of how unfair that may be you have to abide. In my view this is fundamentally wrong and immoral. The financial ombudsman shouldn't have to order insurance companies to pay up, if they were honest, when they try to worm their way out it on occasions, but it happens. As will people not declaring to their liking to save money.
It may be of an interest to you that people do what they are told by these companies, but when I hear what stress it clearly has caused above and in many instances, I disagree with you.
 
Re: what effect does "depression" have on life assurance or mortgage protection premi

Ceatharlach said:
If you did then they probably wouldn't try to penalise and exploit every single condition via increased premium.
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They don't - they only increase the premium for life assurance in respect of conditions that could potentially affect a person's life expectancy.

The other alternative would be to force people with no medical conditions to subsidise those who do, so everyone would pay higher premiums. Which would you prefer?

Ceatharlach said:
They write the law and irregardless of how unfair that may be you have to abide. In my view this is fundamentally wrong and immoral.
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No - the government of the day wrote the law that obliges people to have life assurance cover for home mortgages - the insurance companies didn't. It's the Consumer Credit act 1995.

Incidentally, if a person cannot get cover for whatever reason, the lender has the discretion to allow them to waive the life assurance requirement.

Ceatharlach said:
It may be of an interest to you that people do what they are told by these companies, but when I hear what stress it clearly has caused above and in many instances, I disagree with you.
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As a broker, it would be of huge benefit to me if everyone lied on their application forms as nearly all applications would be accepted with less work for me, regardless of people's health. I would get paid extra commission because no applications would be turned down and it wouldn't affect me in the slightest if claims were rejected as brokers don't get paid from claims.

But it wouldn't be honest.
 
Re: what effect does "depression" have on life assurance or mortgage protection premi

since when has anyone died of depression? Perhaps they could insist on posters friend to sign a contract that they will never harm themselves. I am sure we could lobby for legislation in this regard that way it would be 'honest'.
Hey, Why dont we access people with penalty points on their licence for increased premium as they are more likely to die in a car crash. The possibilities are endless lads and it all would be 'honest'.

Please!
 
Re: what effect does "depression" have on life assurance or mortgage protection premi

very good, agreed but lets punish them both if it makes profits.

was just exercising a point...
 
Re: what effect does "depression" have on life assurance or mortgage protection premi

As I said already, the alternative is to charge all people the same rate, regardless of whether or not they have a health issue that could potentially affect their life expectancy. That way, those without health issues would pay more as they would be subsidising those with.

Would you prefer this?
 
Re: what effect does "depression" have on life assurance or mortgage protection premi

or make these companies not treat people like they cant come forward with such conditions as depression that has no direct mortality rate outside of suicide.
These companies should not be allowed to behave amoral in their calculations. They should not be allowed to make a person feel as the posters friend does. They should be regulated and scrutinised alot more than is in existance to ensure this.
If your to have any empathy for the original post do you not think thats a more human solution than yours.

I would like to meet the person who had their requirement for life assurance waivered by a lender. companies hide behind such rules as excuses for the inexcusable.
 
Re: what effect does "depression" have on life assurance or mortgage protection premi

If a condition didn't have any effect on mortality then why would mortality rates beg to differ. There are many degrees of depression. I've seen persons who are suicidal and others who require 24 hour supervision. Recovery is a slow process sometimes taking many years. Do you think we should have some form of premium equalisation so in effect those who are healthy subsidise those who are above average risk?
 
Re: what effect does "depression" have on life assurance or mortgage protection premi

Take the time to read my last post.
 
Re: what effect does "depression" have on life assurance or mortgage protection premi

They can and do disclose depression. Where is the problem in someone being honest?
 
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