Upgrading a second hand home

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CBGB

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Hi,
I am looking at putting an offer on a second hand home and I am trying to put a price on the cost for upgrading the house to a decent level. I know this is very general and some of this info is contained on various treads on the site but could anyone give an estimate for getting any or all of the following done:
Current house details: 1960's semi-D, single block walls, single glazed windows, original heating system/gas boiler.
What I am trying to price is:
1) to internally insulate the house. I've seen some treads about price/m2 for the insulation but I am looking for a ball park cost (materials and fitting) to do a 1200sqft semi-D. Even if not exactly accurate as I obvioulsy need total wall area but would we be talking 10k or 50k? To the current building regs (U value - 0.27 or slighlty better). Has anyone upgraded something similar like this and what did it set you back?
2) replace the boiler with high efficiency boiler and based on age, I pressume all pipe work too
3) good heating controls
4) Eight 2m x 1.5m A-rated double glazed windows.
I know this is vague but I've rang some places for all the above and they wont quote til they see the house and I'm looking for a ball park fiugre like 50k or whatever so I can put a reasonable offer and not get nailed when I buy. Any help on any of these would be really appreciated!
 
Hi CBGB,

There are diverse opinions on upgrading.

Don't automatically plump for internal insulation.
It takes careful consideration to get it right and can actually make matters worse if its done badly, by reducing the amount heat available to help the blocks dry out after wetting.
Certainly consider re-rendering to improve weathering abilities with a water resistant but not vapour resistant material.
Insulating the inside of a house is not a matter of cost alone but consideration of your detailing to avoid making existing problems worse, creating even more cost.
Before you consider detailing you need to consider the specification - what materials are you going to use to achieve the result - and this can be dependent on the existing technology.
The critical details - as in all construction forms - are the following; -

  • Rising Wall/Floor
  • Floor
  • Thresholds
  • Jambs
  • Sills
  • Heads
  • Eaves
  • Attic
Depending on what you're doing you may also need to give a lot of consideration to
  • First Floor Perimeter
  • Services Penetrations
I understand by single block you mean 9"/225mm Hollow Block walls.
Its easy to see why you'd be tempted to insulate internally, but you should also consider externally insulating the house.

When you're replacing the windows, allow a deeper frame/an offset hinge to let the external insulation return to the window and not foul outward opening sections.
Ensure the outward opening sections complies when fully opened [especially with the offset hinge] with Regulation Part B required window dimensions for means of escape in case of fire.

Several companies produce do external insulation solutions and some will measure up for and install proprietary cill extensions and will undertake the eaves detail and install ventilators for the attic.

External insulation; -
  1. avoids having to insulate the first floor perimeter separately - the whole external walling is insulated, including this zone.
  2. helps to deal with the cold bridge at ground floor level by extending the insulation below DPC level.
  3. avoids interstitial condensation problems because the structure is all "warm"
  4. assists with making the whole house weather tight
  5. does not reduce the internal floor area.
The attic detail is worth taking the time to do as well as you can now.
If you're going to convert the attic at some point and floor it out, now is the time to install the deeper joists for floor loadings.
You can use high density insulation between the roof rafters, sized to leave a 50mm air gap, with whatever thickness remaining to be provided by insulation under the rafters.
This basically continues insulating the "outside" as far as it van be done with a traditional slated or tiled roof. and more of the roof structure is warmer than if all the insulation is at the second floor ceiling level.
Don't forget the ground floor - if you have the head height, install the required depth of insulation - this will affect the thresholds.
Don't forget the chimney - its the single greatest infiltration loss and you should consider closing it with a special damper to allow its occasional use, but also consider ventilation of that room when its not in use.
Don't forget to not install insulation from under the water tank, if you decide to lay insulation on the first floor ceiling - insulate teh top and sides of the tank and all water bearing services pipework - the extra insulation will make the pipes in the attic more liable to freezing.

So as you see its a completely different bill of quantities depending on whether you

A) insulate internally and lay attic insulation on top of the first floor ceiling

-or-

B) insulate externally and insulate the attic space between the roof rafters

This is non-exhaustive general advice.
As in all things that affect building physics, employ a building design professional.

FWIW

ONQ.

[broken link removed]
 
ONQ, Thanks for the detailed response. As the house is a semi-D I'm not too fond of the external option. How will the joint look where the two houses meet? For the time being what I am looking at as the most practical way of upgrading the house is the internal option.
As I was saying I am just trying to get a rough cost for internally insulating a standard 1200sqft house. Are we talking 10k, 20k, 30k?
 
Where you're upgrading windows, putting in new heating, dry lining, etc, a rule of thumb I use is 30-40% of the new build cost. This covers the unexpected also like roof leaks, etc. So a new build for 1200sq ft would be say 200k. Then you're looking at 60-80k for your upgrading.
 
I think you should start with insulating the attic, replacing the windows and upgrading the heating system and radiators. Insulate internally if you want, just remember there's a huge hole to "fill" caused by the first floor and ground floor "edges". Ensure there is a 50mm clear gap to allow the eaves ventilation to work in the attic. Remember compressing 200mm of Rockwool into a 100mm space lowers its effectiveness. Consider solar heating pipes and sealing the fireplace, evn if its only with a variable damper that allows occasional use. Consider porches front and rear. Check your doors for tolerances. That could see you up around €50K

FWIW

ONQ.
 
thanks for those estimates. I had estimated around the 50 - 60k too.

Following on from that, do you think it is reasonable to drop this amount of the current asking price for a second hand house? Considering resale in 4 or 5 years and to make it liveable til then.
 
Well, I think its a buyer's market and this kind of "play" on the asking price would seem reasonable.

Obviously it won't seem reasonable to the seller though, who'll feel nothing has changed from what they bought.

They might also have done some upgrades that will knock your argument for six.

I'd say most sellers won't take a 50-60K hit for somethign like this.

Unless the Green Evangelists decide to introduce a tax on it.

:(

HTH

ONQ.
 
CBGB said:
thanks for those estimates. I had estimated around the 50 - 60k too.

Following on from that, do you think it is reasonable to drop this amount of the current asking price for a second hand house? Considering resale in 4 or 5 years and to make it liveable til then.
Click to expand...

I have heard of asking for discounts for repairs and defects but not upgrades. May annoy the vendor.
 
My rationale for using this as a benchmark for an offer is all to do with the resale and risk for me. As you stated its a buyers market at the moment and I think the risks should be on the seller as the market is. In the boom, the risk was with the buyer from buying from plans, new areas etc. But now if a buyer is not in a rush to buy it is less risky to see where the actual 'bottom' is.

In terms of the green monster I do think that the BER is the first step to putting in fees/taxes based on the CO2 emissions and I can see them developing this to a great extent over the next few years whereby the worse the rating the greater you will pay. Its an easy target for them I think.

So if there is a house arounf the corner for a bit more but would require less to upgrade it to a good level of efficiency I dont think its too unreasonable to take this into consideration in the offer price.

But thats just my opinion and they could just laught at me :)
 
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