ringledman
Registered User
- Messages
- 620
Stockmarket followers on here, please discuss-
So the stockmarket moves in long term bull and bear markets commonly called the SECULAR cycle with shorter and smaller counter rallies called CYCLICAL trends. The former refer to powerful, long-term directional moves, while the latter represent shorter-term swings around the primary trend.
The typical secular bull is 15-25 years long and the typical secular bear 12-18 years long.
So with the current Secular bear having started in 2000 (i.e. we still havent broken through the 2000 highs) and as we are nearing these highs again (approx 15-20% below or so) my thinking is that this is way too soon to break through the highs based on history.
i.e. history shows that the secular bear last much longer than the current 11 years since the last peak.
So could we have a very short secular bear, say we rise 10-20 percent from here in the next year and then break through the previous highs of 2000 and then go onto the next huge multi year secular bull market?
Or, we go higher this year, up to the previous peak but dont manage to break through and a new cyclical bear commences and stocks fall considerably before resuming an uptrend and we then eventually break trough the previous 2000 high, some 4-5 years from now?
Personally I go with the second view. In general the markets (i.e. the indexes as a whole) still have further regression to the mean of P/Es that mark the end of a secular bear market. This may not happen through a massive crash (sorry deflationists) but through a sideways trending market with earnings growth of 15%+ pulling the P/Es lower.
So dependent on what is most likely to happen (option 2 IMO) how do you invest for the next 5 years?
I would like to buy cheap tracker but can't see myself doing so with the secular bear still probably not over.
My view is probably to maintain a value approach in more stable high yield, defensive meagacaps that bottomed in 2009 on low enough P/Es to form a secular low for this asset class. Likewise I think Japan is a good buy from a value perspective and with their index on multi decade lows.
I also subscribe to the Jeremy Grantham view of having enough cash on hand to invest in any future crash/correction. Perhaps 10% cash and accept that it will lose real value per annum.
Investment strategies welcome.
Cheers.
P.S. I made this post with the USA and UK markets in mind as these are the ones I know the best. I would be interested to hear how the European markets are fairing in relation to their secular market. I assume they are in the main all in secular bear markets and still below their early decade peak? I assume they all pretty much peaked in 2000?
Likewise the emerging market indexes are probably mid way through a secular bull market (definately not in a secular bear) and so possibly the place to remain for another 10 years or so?
Thoughts welcome.
So the stockmarket moves in long term bull and bear markets commonly called the SECULAR cycle with shorter and smaller counter rallies called CYCLICAL trends. The former refer to powerful, long-term directional moves, while the latter represent shorter-term swings around the primary trend.
The typical secular bull is 15-25 years long and the typical secular bear 12-18 years long.
So with the current Secular bear having started in 2000 (i.e. we still havent broken through the 2000 highs) and as we are nearing these highs again (approx 15-20% below or so) my thinking is that this is way too soon to break through the highs based on history.
i.e. history shows that the secular bear last much longer than the current 11 years since the last peak.
So could we have a very short secular bear, say we rise 10-20 percent from here in the next year and then break through the previous highs of 2000 and then go onto the next huge multi year secular bull market?
Or, we go higher this year, up to the previous peak but dont manage to break through and a new cyclical bear commences and stocks fall considerably before resuming an uptrend and we then eventually break trough the previous 2000 high, some 4-5 years from now?
Personally I go with the second view. In general the markets (i.e. the indexes as a whole) still have further regression to the mean of P/Es that mark the end of a secular bear market. This may not happen through a massive crash (sorry deflationists) but through a sideways trending market with earnings growth of 15%+ pulling the P/Es lower.
So dependent on what is most likely to happen (option 2 IMO) how do you invest for the next 5 years?
I would like to buy cheap tracker but can't see myself doing so with the secular bear still probably not over.
My view is probably to maintain a value approach in more stable high yield, defensive meagacaps that bottomed in 2009 on low enough P/Es to form a secular low for this asset class. Likewise I think Japan is a good buy from a value perspective and with their index on multi decade lows.
I also subscribe to the Jeremy Grantham view of having enough cash on hand to invest in any future crash/correction. Perhaps 10% cash and accept that it will lose real value per annum.
Investment strategies welcome.
Cheers.
P.S. I made this post with the USA and UK markets in mind as these are the ones I know the best. I would be interested to hear how the European markets are fairing in relation to their secular market. I assume they are in the main all in secular bear markets and still below their early decade peak? I assume they all pretty much peaked in 2000?
Likewise the emerging market indexes are probably mid way through a secular bull market (definately not in a secular bear) and so possibly the place to remain for another 10 years or so?
Thoughts welcome.