Teacher forced by Cornmarket to take Life insurance as part of salary protection.

[whattheheck]

As a school teacher I took out salary protection with Cornmarket.

However, they also forced me to take out life insurance as part of package.

Now I bought a house and find out I can't use the life insurance with cornmarket for to cover my life insurance for my mortgage.

I rang cornmarket and they tell me that is just the way it is.

Is it right that they can force people to take out life insurance if they want to be part of the salary protection scheme?

 

[CN624]

Couple of questions:
Why can't your life assurance be used for the mortgage?

As a teacher why did you think you needed salary protection? In many situations I would argue that salary protection is an unneccessary expense, particularly for public sector employees. Individual circumstances differ but in my opinion salary protection is not worth the money.

I think Cornmarket, trying to phrase this delicately, make the most of teachers & nurses financial naivity. I sat in once with a teacher friend during a sales spiel for AVCs and was surprised at the promises made. None of the charges or assumptions used to calculate returns were made clear. It was a simple "if you give us €x per month in 20 years you will get €xxxxxxx. Isn't that great!! Sign here quick"
From talking to other teachers their experience was similar.

 

[mula]

Couple of questions:
Why can't your life assurance be used for the mortgage?

As a teacher why did you think you needed salary protection? In many situations I would argue that salary protection is an unneccessary expense, particularly for public sector employees. Individual circumstances differ but in my opinion salary protection is not worth the money.

I think Cornmarket, trying to phrase this delicately, make the most of teachers & nurses financial naivity. I sat in once with a teacher friend during a sales spiel for AVCs and was surprised at the promises made. None of the charges or assumptions used to calculate returns were made clear. It was a simple "if you give us €x per month in 20 years you will get €xxxxxxx. Isn't that great!! Sign here quick"
From talking to other teachers their experience was similar.

what a load of turd!

income protection should be the first thing any employee should have when they start out the rev give full tax relief on it too.

 

[CN624]

what a load of turd!

Interesting analysis. Keep up the good work.

Whats the point in paying for it if your employment is secure?
Whats the point in paying if you are in good health?
Whats the point in paying for it if your skills are in high demand?
Whats the point in paying for it if you are in a job that has good benefits package (sick pay etc, that will cover short-medium term illness)?
Whats the point in paying for it if you have income from other assets?

Sure you might become sick or hit by a car and become unable to work but many of these policies only kick in after 3-6 months of unemployment anyway. There is always the chance that you may be injured/unable to work but the statistical chance of it happening is very very small.

If you want to pay your money for extra insurance its your choice. But to say salary protection 'should be the first thing any employee should have' is nonsense.

 

[Marathon Man]

Interesting analysis. Keep up the good work.

Well said!! On that point only but the rest is ...well...duh!

Whats the point in paying for it if your employment is secure?

The employment may be secure, however, once your allowable sick days used up, you are out - no income. I know of a few (thankfully!) teachers who have had to avail of this scheme. I also know one who didn't - how would you like to survive on disability alone?

Whats the point in paying if you are in good health?

The point is that you may be in good health now. There is no guarantee that you will continue to be in good health. Try looking for cover once you fall into ill health - nil chance - horse has bolted. To paraphrase your comment; what's the point in having comprehensive car insurance if you've never had an accident? What's the point in having house insurance if you've never had to claim?

Whats the point in paying for it if your skills are in high demand?

If you are ill/incapacitated that you can't use you skills!

Whats the point in paying for it if you are in a job that has good benefits package (sick pay etc, that will cover short-medium term illness)?

"short-medium term illness" Enough said, the cover is for long term.

Whats the point in paying for it if you have income from other assets?

I don't recall anyone suggesting that whattheheck had other assets to the extent that he wouldn't notice much change in his income if his teacher's salary was gone.

Sure you might become sick or hit by a car and become unable to work but many of these policies only kick in after 3-6 months of unemployment anyway. There is always the chance that you may be injured/unable to work but the statistical chance of it happening is very very small.

"the statistical chance of it happening is very very small." Now this is nonsense. You seem to be implying that the possibility is remote. I'm guessing that you are relatively young and have a very optimistic outlook (good on you! sarcasm is NOT intended) and that your circle of friends and acquaintances is also relatively young and healthy. I suggest that if you were towards the latter end of your career you might view things differently.

If you want to pay your money for extra insurance its your choice. But to say salary protection 'should be the first thing any employee should have' is nonsense.

If you can't pay the bills you're sunk. Everyone should review their position and find they can't sustain their lifestyle without their primary income, then salary protection 'should be the first thing any employee should have'

btw, A dark cloud recently came over my own health. Thankfully it passed me by. I'm perfectly healthy - the thought that I might be seriously ill - which I turned out not to be - was just as real as having it. After this I decided to increase my PHI cover. The result my insurers, following a clear medical, have hit me for exclusions and increased fees -even though I am perfectly healthy and fit - see my 'monicker'

I suggest a rethink on your part!

 

[csirl]

Public sector employees generally get full salary for first 6 months of sickness and then go onto half pay.

Protection schemes offered in many parts of public sector generally top up the 50% of pay paid after 6 months to 75% of pay.

I have come across the Cornmarket scheme before - my wife is a teacher and received the sales pitch. I looked over it and my personal opinion is that this particular scheme is poor value for money. I would echo CN624's view about teachers financial naivity.

One thing in particular I found particularly unpleasant about this scheme is the way it is sold. My wife received a phonecall from someone who said they had received her phone number from ASTI (even though she did not give ASTI permission to disclose it and at the time of the phonecall was not even a member of ASTI) and this person's sales technique left a lot to be desired in terms of scaremongering and misleading information - was more akin to a dodgy timeshare salesman preying on OAPs. She also knows of colleagues who feel they have got a bad deal out of Cornmarket.

My advice - avoid Cornmarket like the plague.

 

[mula]

Public sector employees generally get full salary for first 6 months of sickness and then go onto half pay.

Protection schemes offered in many parts of public sector generally top up the 50% of pay paid after 6 months to 75% of pay.

I have come across the Cornmarket scheme before - my wife is a teacher and received the sales pitch. I looked over it and my personal opinion is that this particular scheme is poor value for money. I would echo CN624's view about teachers financial naivity.

One thing in particular I found particularly unpleasant about this scheme is the way it is sold. My wife received a phonecall from someone who said they had received her phone number from ASTI (even though she did not give ASTI permission to disclose it and at the time of the phonecall was not even a member of ASTI) and this person's sales technique left a lot to be desired in terms of scaremongering and misleading information - was more akin to a dodgy timeshare salesman preying on OAPs. She also knows of colleagues who feel they have got a bad deal out of Cornmarket.

My advice - avoid Cornmarket like the plague.

your salary pays for everything mortgage, car insurance ,food hols vhi etc etc if you end up out of work for more then 12 months in any four years your off the payroll. now unless you have a serious stash of savings or very close to retirement with a good number of years and no mortgage then in simple terms your screwed. so i dont see how having a insurance policy that will prevent this situation is a bad idea. the gov think its good idea thats why they give full tax relief.i dont know why your getting hung up on cornmarket you dont have to deal with them at all if you dont want. just request the booklet and the application form read it and decide what you want to do.

 

[BillyM]

Why won't the mortgage company allow you to use this lifecover???
Is this some sharp sales pitch to make you take out extra cover...Surely that's the question you should be asking

 

[Marathon Man]

Public sector employees generally get full salary for first 6 months of sickness and then go onto half pay.

Protection schemes offered in many parts of public sector generally top up the 50% of pay paid after 6 months to 75% of pay.
.....................................
My advice - avoid Cornmarket like the plague.

I agree 110% with everything you say.

While I've looked at the AVCs in great detail, I can't say the same for the Salary Protection and Life insurance. It seems such a relatively small amount every fortnight, but given the level of cover provided by the Dept, I reckon that it MUST be cheaper to get similar cover to Cornmarket - or better! - privately. I feel a strong urge coming on to call my QFA!

 

[CN624]

Re Marathon Man's Replys.

Perhaps it is a matter of attittude to risk and current circumstances.

I'm relatively young and luckily haven't spent a day in hospital since I was born. This could change in the morning of course, but at the moment its a risk I am prepared to take. I do have life assurance but that is due to a mortgage requirement.

I don't go in for the doom and gloom scenarios of insurance salesmen who are simply trying to get more commission. Particularly when I read the small print of policies and the long list of exclusions. (When you see just losing one arm isn't a legitimate claim you have to wonder what is!)

If my circumstances were to change regarding children I would of course reassess.

But not with Cornmarket.

 

[csirl]

your salary pays for everything mortgage, car insurance ,food hols vhi etc etc if you end up out of work for more then 12 months in any four years your off the payroll. now unless you have a serious stash of savings or very close to retirement with a good number of years and no mortgage then in simple terms your screwed. so i dont see how having a insurance policy that will prevent this situation is a bad idea. the gov think its good idea thats why they give full tax relief.i dont know why your getting hung up on cornmarket you dont have to deal with them at all if you dont want. just request the booklet and the application form read it and decide what you want to do.

For this type of policy you are weighing up the following:

risk of being off work for more than 6 months VERSUS need for/benefit of an extra 25% in salary (diff between 50% & 75%) VERSUS cost of paying for the cover VERSUS other things you could do with the money that may give an income.

My personal opinion is that the Cornmarket schemes are expensive for what you get and I dont trust them due to their modus operandi. Another factor in all this is the reluctance of public sector employers to cut someone from the payroll if they have a long term illness. In many cases you find a very liberal application of the rules to the benefit of the sick person - I'm aware of cases where the sick person struggles into work for 1 day at the end of the 6 month period thus earning themselves the right to another 6 months of sick leave on full pay.

 

[mula]

For this type of policy you are weighing up the following:

risk of being off work for more than 6 months VERSUS need for/benefit of an extra 25% in salary (diff between 50% & 75%) VERSUS cost of paying for the cover VERSUS other things you could do with the money that may give an income.

and if your off work for more then 12 months?

My personal opinion is that the Cornmarket schemes are expensive for what you get and I dont trust them due to their modus operandi. Another factor in all this is the reluctance of public sector employers to cut someone from the payroll if they have a long term illness. In many cases you find a very liberal application of the rules to the benefit of the sick person - I'm aware of cases where the sick person struggles into work for 1 day at the end of the 6 month period thus earning themselves the right to another 6 months of sick leave on full pay

where did you get that info? its 12 months in any 4 years that the rule. i think someone been leadin you up the garden path. check with your union they have all the stats re claims etc that should give you the correct picture.

 

[mula]

i don't go in for the doom and gloom scenarios of insurance salesmen who are simply trying to get more commission. Particularly when I read the small print of policies and the long list of exclusions. (When you see just losing one arm isn't a legitimate claim you have to wonder what is!)

i suggest you get the booklet and read it because last time i checked the teachers unions had the most comprehensive ips scheme available bar the cops

 

[DrMoriarty]

Perhaps it is a matter of attitude to risk and current circumstances.

Nail on the proverbial head. I pay for income protection (and am generally insured up to my, eh, armpits) because we have young kids and I'm the sole wage-earner. But in a few more years that money is earmarked for other purposes.

What the heck happened to the OP?

 

[csirl]

where did you get that info? its 12 months in any 4 years that the rule. i think someone been leadin you up the garden path. check with your union they have all the stats re claims etc that should give you the correct picture.

To put it another way, have you ever come across a case where a sick teacher has been involuntarily taken off the payroll?

Now, I'm not talking about wasters who go on long term absenses because they dont like teaching anymore or are having a mid life crisis (for which I doubt any insurance policy would pay up). Have you ever come across a case where a teacher who has e.g. cancer, bad car accident etc. been taken off the payroll?

 

[oysterman]

To put it another way, have you ever come across a case where a sick teacher has been involuntarily taken off the payroll?

Now, I'm not talking about wasters who go on long term absenses because they dont like teaching anymore or are having a mid life crisis (for which I doubt any insurance policy would pay up). Have you ever come across a case where a teacher who has e.g. cancer, bad car accident etc. been taken off the payroll?

Happens all the time.

Being taken off the payroll is not a discretionary decision. Once you're out the regulation number of days you're off.

The DES is not a charity.

 

[Marathon Man]

Have you ever come across a case where a teacher who has e.g. cancer, bad car accident etc. been taken off the payroll?

YES!! I'm not going to post details of the cases here, but yes I have, and in one case the person didn't have salary protection.

 

[PaddyBloggit]

Re. the OP's original question ... albeit a while since it was asked:

I was in the same situation ... the reason Cornmarket's Life Assurance (connected to Salary Protection) can't be used to cover Mortgage Protection is because it's part of a group scheme and the Bank needs to have the Life Assurance policy assigned to it to cover the Mortgage Protection.

The group scheme policy cannot be assigned to the bank and that's why we end up with two life policies.

 

[Squaremile]

Whattheheck,

Cornmarket are perfectly entitled to do this as they would have negotiated the structure of the policy with your union.

At the moment all you can do is to contact your union to request that next time the contract between themselves and Cornmarket is renewed, that the Life cover element is an opt-in benefit rather than a compulsory benefit.

Other union shemes operate in this method so a precedent is there.

Regards,
Andrew

http://www.squaremile.ie