Right of way - new road

J

Jane

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Hi all, just looking for some information. My parents have right of way on a private road that leads up to their house (it's a long road, about 600m). The land around it has been sold & there is a large development planned on it which includes a lower section of this road. There will be a new road put in halfway up the original road which will eventually lead to the public road. However, what say do my parents have with the lower section of the road now becoming redundant? Do they have any position to object to this as they always had a right of way on the entire road? Or is it that because they are given new access then they have no grounds to dispute losing the rights to the lower part of the road?

The new access road takes them quite a bit out of the way.
 
Perhaps they could object to the new land development on the grounds that it builds over their existing right of way and that the alternative route imposes unreasonable hardship.
 
A right of way has to be extinguished. Has anyone approached them about this? Is it a private right of way just for them alone or a public right of way? If it is public then it is the local council who would extinguish it and of course they could object. If it is private then the developer would need to discuss it with them. Did they object to the planning because it would interfere with their right of way. It is easy to object.
 
Right of ways are extremely difficult to loose in Ireland and don’t even need to be registered on a folio to have legitimacy, it’s obviously still better if right of way is registered?
 
Thanks all

@Salvadore it may come to that.

@Clamball: "A right of way has to be extinguished" - This is also what I thought so we'll definitely follow up on that point. It's a private right of way, a few people have it not just my parents. They haven't objected yet as they wanted to know where they stood. Thanks for that.

@galway_blow_in - Yes, it's registered.
 
Engaging in the planning process and objecting is the right move. However I have seen examples where the council (and then An Bord Pleanala) washed their hands of the private right of way issue saying it was outside their planning remit and was a civil matter. In case that happens here, I would be ready to engage a solicitor to draft a letter to the developers. As it is registered on the folio you are in a very strong position.
 
Bluecup said:
Engaging in the planning process and objecting is the right move. However I have seen examples where the council (and then An Bord Pleanala) washed their hands of the private right of way issue saying it was outside their planning remit and was a civil matter. In case that happens here, I would be ready to engage a solicitor to draft a letter to the developers. As it is registered on the folio you are in a very strong position.
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Thanks for that Bluecup.
 
I am a bit unclear about the geography of the scene.
Do I read this right ? ;
1. Private road adjoins the public road.
2. Private road connects parents' property to main road.
3. Parents' property is at the far end of the road.
4. The development lies between the main road and the parents' property.
5. If 4 is correct will parents need to pass over a brand new road or over a renovated version of the current road to access the main road ?

There are quite a number of potential problems here especially in relation to proving that there is an actual legally established right of way as distinct from the current exercising of what might seem to be a right of way.
Right of way can be established legally by a few methods.
Nothing in the original post suggests that right of way has actually been established even though it is apparently being exercised.

Also, you need to establish if there are any agreements between parties that provides for right of access over certain parts of the lands.
If so, you also need to see if there are any obligations in relation to maintenance of the access road.
If there are any such agreements have they been memorialised at the Registry of Deeds i.e. is there any proof of existence of such agreements ?

In short, I would advise your parents very strongly to collect up all of their title documents and any papers relating to the issue and cut along now to a solicitor as there are quite a number of issues to be investigated, resolved and possibly negotiated.

As far as planning goes I agree with Bluecup - #6 above. There are a number of property type issues that just do not fall in to the scope of the planning process. Lodging planning objections may well do nothing in relation to the issue of concern to OP's parents.
 
Jane said:
Thanks for that Bluecup.
Click to expand...

You're welcome. If you want to see an example of what I mean, check section 7.3 of the inspector's report for PL08.309182 on the Ann Bord Pleanala website, it does appear that in the last few years councils and ABP are trying to wash their hands of right of way matters where possible.
 
Your parents have a registered right of way which someone wants to change.

At the very least the (proposed) new right of way will need to be registered to your parents property.

Take care as to who will be responsible for the maintenance of the new road, and will they have an incentive to maintain it indefinitely.

I think your parents could object to, and refuse to allow any change in the route of the existing right of way, but this may depend on the wording of the registered right of way.

Consider if the proposed change would adversely affect the convenience of the right of way, eg would it mean a longer walk to the nearest bus stop? Is it longer and would therefore cost more to maintain?
 
DirectDevil said:
4. The development lies between the main road and the parents' property.
5. If 4 is correct will parents need to pass over a brand new road or over a renovated version of the current road to access the main road ?
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Nothing in OP to indicate this is the case. What is stated is that the new road will join the main road, something that is very difficult to get planning for.
 
Jane said:
Hi all, just looking for some information. My parents have right of way on a private road that leads up to their house (it's a long road, about 600m). The land around it has been sold & there is a large development planned on it which includes a lower section of this road. There will be a new road put in halfway up the original road which will eventually lead to the public road. However, what say do my parents have with the lower section of the road now becoming redundant? Do they have any position to object to this as they always had a right of way on the entire road? Or is it that because they are given new access then they have no grounds to dispute losing the rights to the lower part of the road?

The new access road takes them quite a bit out of the way.
Click to expand...
Why would they still need access to the lower part of the road if as you say it’s usage/necessity will become redundant in any case?
 
Allen said:
Your parents have a registered right of way which someone wants to change.

At the very least the (proposed) new right of way will need to be registered to your parents property.

Take care as to who will be responsible for the maintenance of the new road, and will they have an incentive to maintain it indefinitely.

I think your parents could object to, and refuse to allow any change in the route of the existing right of way, but this may depend on the wording of the registered right of way.

Consider if the proposed change would adversely affect the convenience of the right of way, eg would it mean a longer walk to the nearest bus stop? Is it longer and would therefore cost more to maintain?
Click to expand...

Yes, it will add on about 1km to 1.5km to walk into the centre, get to the church, local shops etc. They indicated this in their objection too.
 
LLB123 said:
Why would they still need access to the lower part of the road if as you say it’s usage/necessity will become redundant in any case?
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The lower part of the existing road would only become redundant due to the creation of this new road, which is not a like-for-like. In fact, it's quite the opposite and will adversely affect the convenience of their current right of way.
 
It's still not fully clear what is being proposed here. Are you saying part of the route that they have a right of way over is to be removed with access to the main road to be facilitated over a new, longer road?
 
Leo said:
It's still not fully clear what is being proposed here. Are you saying part of the route that they have a right of way over is to be removed with access to the main road to be facilitated over a new, longer road?
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Yes, by way of a new housing development.
 
OK, then their solicitor needs to review the terms of the original right of way, the development plans, and the terms, if any, being offered regarding ongoing access including ensuring continuous access during the development phase.
 
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