Retirement due to Ill Health

B

Babamc

Guest
Hi All,

I was wondering if anyone can help me, I work for the HSE and I am on long term sick leave following an accident.

I no longer feel that it is appropriate for me to hold a position that I may not be able to go back to.

What I am wondering is that I have 8 years service and if I do retire due to ill health, can I claim my pension early, and if so how do I go about it and how much would I be expected to receive.

I have 5 years service at grade III level and 3 years at grade IV.

Thanks very much for all your help :)
 
yes you can get your pension early and you may be entitled to added years as you are retiring on ill health grounds. Your HR dept will advise you on what exactly your entitlements are

mula
 
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Babamc,
have you discussed ill-health retirement with your HR Dept.?
if you were to retire on ill-health I believe that your benefits would be based on 16 years service - 8 years actual plus 8 ill-health added years (on the proviso that you have more than 8 years to go before you are sixty-five). This would give you a lump sum of approx. €22,000 and a occupational pension of approx €2,800 per annum. I expect that you should also receive disability allowance from Social Welfare. Please be aware that anyone who retires in 2010 will have their pension benefits based on rate of pay prior to the pay cut effective from 1st Jan 2010. You should discuss the situation with your HR Dept to get accurate figures etc.
Regards,
Evening
 
Thank you both for replying. I've started the ball rolling with regards to this now, apparently the process can take around 10 weeks to complete. At the meeting they were very reluctant to discuss figures at all and even as I tried to push it they said that they would get back to me on that. Can I ask where you got the €22,000 lump run figure I've tried everywhere to find the info re pensions and added years on the net and I can't find anything that tells figures

Thanks again :)
 
Anything to do with pensions is covered under the Local Government (Superannuation) Scheme, so a Google search might throw up something of interest.

Have a look at this http://www.finance.gov.ie/viewdoc.asp?fn=/documents/Publications/other/modelscheme.htm & scroll down to section 6.2 in the Pensionable Service section:

''6.2 (a) A member who has completed five or more years of actual pensionable service and who retires, or is retired, on medical grounds in accordance with the provisions of paragraph 8.1 of this scheme, may, at the discretion of the "X," have a period of notional service (to be referred to as "ill-health notional service") added to his pensionable service, provided that the aggregate of pensionable service and ill-health notional service does not exceed 40 years.


(b) The ill-health notional service shall be calculated on the following basis:
(i) members whose actual pensionable service is between five and ten years will be allowed an equivalent amount of ill-health notional service, such amount of notional service not to exceed the amount by which the pensionable service he would have had if he served to age 65 exceeds his pensionable service at retirement;''


There have been numerous amendments to this area, that you really need to speak to someone who knows their stuff, as not all staff would be up to date with all regulations & entitlements.

I would strongly advise that you contact your Union Rep & get them to check & verify any information that the HSE give you & ask them to accompany you to any meetings that you may have with them. The chances are that your Union would have dealt with similar cases to your own.
 
Evening said:
Babamc,
I expect that you should also receive disability allowance from Social Welfare.
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I assume the OP has been paying full class PRSI, with 8 years paid they would be entitled to apply for Invalidity Pension if they satisfy the medical conditions, which is not means tested like Disability Allowance.
 
Thank you papercut, yes this would be considered then, to be the 16 years service if I am correct?

The information came today from my work, as usual with the minimum information, a one page document to be exact, with no figures as I requested.

I have had my local union rep involved in the first round of talks and unfortunately he has had no previous experience regarding retirement due to ill health, but did say that he would get in touch with the paid officials and get back to me and that we would met up at some point.

I am now entering round 2 of the discussions, and as you can understand I am quite anxious regarding my further income, hence why I am trying to find out all the information so I can make and informed decision.

Yes I have been paying full class PRSI (single persons allowance). I am currently on Illness Benefit and I am thinking of applying for Invalidity Benefit, this is really all a minefield for me tbh and I understand that being on a non-means tested benefit would be better. Is the annual supplement (€2800 as evening wrote) counted as means do you know?

Thank you all :)
 
Did you get a certificate from the HSE a few weeks ago that gave details of pension payments for all the different years of service? That would give you some idea of what you might get. Be aware,though that ,as you startedafter 1995, any entitlement may be agregated with your DSFA entitlement. If that happens and you go on to Invalidity Pension, there may be an adjustment inyour HSE payment as well.
 
No tentman I didn't get anything at all. My work is notorious for giving the least amount of info as possible :rolleyes: its all a minefield I have to say and its getting very stressful. The union have said that they do all the negotiations but I would like to know this info myself beforehand
 
No tentman I didn't get anything at all. My work is notorious for giving the least amount of info as possible :rolleyes: its all a minefield I have to say and its getting very stressful. The union have said that they do all the negotiations but I would like to know this info myself beforehand
 
Have you access to the HSE Intranet. If so ,have a look at Working in the HSE on the lhs of the home page. Good info there. By the way the Pensions Payment Cert is a legal obligation on the HSE. Your area Salaries Office should have sent it out. If not, then demand it.
 
My understanding of it is that it's not down to negotiations. You're either entitled to retire on ground of ill health or not. If you entitled to retire on ill health you'll get whatever you're due under the scheme, no more no less.

You stated that you 'may' not be able to go back to work. My understanding is a doctor will decide this

I know 2 people who retired on ill health and the union wasn't involved at all.

Any dealings I've had with Superann looking for general information like this is that don't commit to any figures until they have all the facts. I presume this is standard procedure.
 
Tentman; I'll ask for that cert on Monday, as you said it should have been given to me. Unfortunately I don't have access to the HSE intranet. Otherwise that would have been perfect.

Becky; I have been by one of my team that I will not be able to go back to work but I'm waiting for my consultant to confirm it in the vain hope that there is a possibility if not now but in the future. What info I have been given by work re the rules of the scheme and what my dr has told me I am unfortunately eligible. I've been told that it was open to negotiation have you found this otherwise?
 
I don't know much about the scheme. The two people I knew were I suppose straightforward enough cases.

Your case doesn't seem as straightforward.
 
Babamc said:
Yes I have been paying full class PRSI (single persons allowance). I am currently on Illness Benefit and I am thinking of applying for Invalidity Benefit, this is really all a minefield for me tbh and I understand that being on a non-means tested benefit would be better. Is the annual supplement (€2800 as evening wrote) counted as means do you know?
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Invalidity Pension is not a means tested payment, you can only qualify if you satisfy the medical & PRSI contributions criteria. It is however liable for tax if any other applicable income brings you into the tax net, so I assume that this is what Tentman is referring to.
 
becky said:
My understanding of it is that it's not down to negotiations. You're either entitled to retire on ground of ill health or not. If you entitled to retire on ill health you'll get whatever you're due under the scheme, no more no less.
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I wasn’t suggesting that entitlements were open to negotiation. The reason I suggested Union representation was that retiring on ill health grounds is a major decision in most people’s lives, & rather than turning up to a meeting alone it is advisable to have the support of someone who may have had prior dealings in this area, & who could look at the situation with an independent eye & perhaps bring any queries to the fore that the OP might overlook. Health issues have now been highlighted, so in case things didn’t go through for some reason it can do no harm to have Union presence. As it turns out, the OP has asked the Union to get involved, though a paid official might be better than a local rep.

I have been involved in a similar case where the employee (with four & a half years service) was offered nothing apart from a preserved pension when they would reach age 65. Their Union rep (paid official) got involved & suddenly the employee was offered a Short Service Gratuity lump sum payment plus they signed away their preserved pension rights & got a refund of most of the superannuation payments that they had paid during their service (less tax). As far as I can remember they were entitled to this payment as they had less than five years service. They ended up, between the two payments, receiving almost €19,000.

It’s not that the HR dept were attempting to ‘do’ the employee out of money – it was the case that the HR person (who was at the time meant to be an expert in the superannuation area) with whom they were dealing was not aware of the existence of this gratuity. When prompted by the Union official the HR person came across the information, which he had ‘filed away’ some years earlier. It is for this reason that I recommend that any calculations be checked & verified by the OP’s Union rep.

I would add that the calculations had to be gone over more than once at the time, as in this case there was some backdated promotion involved, & the final figure ended up being more favourable than the first one. The OP’s situation would possibly be more straightforward, but considering that the situation is the exception rather than the norm, it can do no harm to have representation from an independent third party.
 
Papercut said:
I wasn’t suggesting that entitlements were open to negotiation. The reason I suggested Union representation was that retiring on ill health grounds is a major decision in most people’s lives, & rather than turning up to a meeting alone it is advisable to have the support of someone who may have had prior dealings in this area, & who could look at the situation with an independent eye & perhaps bring any queries to the fore that the OP might overlook. Health issues have now been highlighted, so in case things didn’t go through for some reason it can do no harm to have Union presence. As it turns out, the OP has asked the Union to get involved, though a paid official might be better than a local rep.

I have been involved in a similar case where the employee (with four & a half years service) was offered nothing apart from a preserved pension when they would reach age 65. Their Union rep (paid official) got involved & suddenly the employee was offered a Short Service Gratuity lump sum payment plus they signed away their preserved pension rights & got a refund of most of the superannuation payments that they had paid during their service (less tax). As far as I can remember they were entitled to this payment as they had less than five years service. They ended up, between the two payments, receiving almost €19,000.

It’s not that the HR dept were attempting to ‘do’ the employee out of money – it was the case that the HR person (who was at the time meant to be an expert in the superannuation area) with whom they were dealing was not aware of the existence of this gratuity. When prompted by the Union official the HR person came across the information, which he had ‘filed away’ some years earlier. It is for this reason that I recommend that any calculations be checked & verified by the OP’s Union rep.

I would add that the calculations had to be gone over more than once at the time, as in this case there was some backdated promotion involved, & the final figure ended up being more favourable than the first one. The OP’s situation would possibly be more straightforward, but considering that the situation is the exception rather than the norm, it can do no harm to have representation from an independent third party.
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That's a well main point.

I only know 2 and they both had 20+ years service. They hadn't been promoted in recently so their cases were very straigtforward.
 
Tentman said:
Did you get a certificate from the HSE a few weeks ago that gave details of pension payments for all the different years of service? That would give you some idea of what you might get. Be aware,though that ,as you startedafter 1995, any entitlement may be agregated with your DSFA entitlement. If that happens and you go on to Invalidity Pension, there may be an adjustment inyour HSE payment as well.
Click to expand...

I just received today a breakdown of my pension payments over the last few yrs, it wasn't in a certificate form as you said but looked more like an excel doc. The figure that I have paid is approx €7,500 which doesn't seem that much but I'm not sure regarding this. Given that I have gotten this figure is it easier to work out what I will get.

Thanks for all your help with this.
 
Babamc said:
I just received today a breakdown of my pension payments over the last few yrs, it wasn't in a certificate form as you said but looked more like an excel doc. The figure that I have paid is approx €7,500 which doesn't seem that much but I'm not sure regarding this. Given that I have gotten this figure is it easier to work out what I will get.

Thanks for all your help with this.
Click to expand...


That seems to be the one I'm referring to. I have mislaid the one that came into my gaffe. When/if I get my hands on it, I'll post again
 
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