Public Service Early Retirement Scheme

BBR

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Anyone know the difference between an "Established Civil Servant" & a "Non-Established Civil Servant".
Voluntary Sector worker with 32 years service paying into Nominated Health Services Pension Scheme (HSE) thinking of taking up new early retirement scheme and unsure of the details to enter on civil service pension modeller-
trying to figure what pension will be without actuarial reduction.
 
Hello Justsally,
Thanks for the reply and link. There's a lot of information in there but I still can't figure out the difference between "established" & Non-established".
The pension modeller here http://www.cspensions.gov.ie/calculators.asp gives a number of options, each with different results, but I'm not sure which applies in my case.
HSE have now issued a circular stating that members of the Nominated Health Agencies Superannuation scheme will qualify for the IERS if aged over 50.
Do you know if the 1/80th current salary multiplied by the number of years pensionable service formula applies in this case? A hard one to get straight information on.
 
established just means permanent ie you've passed your 2 year probation (is it 1 year now?) would doubt anyone applying for this would be on probation
 
Thanks all- not sure is it as straightforward as that derko1969- you're right I'm sure in saying that probationers or those under 2 years of service are going to be part of this discussion.
All the same, I have a sense that there is a more important distinction between "Established" & "Non-Established" since , when you put in the same details to the modeller, it gives substantially different outputs according to the category selected.
Could be something to do with PRSI rates paid but not sure.
Thanks all the same for responding- if anyone else can through a light on it I'd be appreciative.
 
Could be something to do with PRSI rates paid but not sure.

That's what I thought:- see this quote from my previous reference

2.6 Non-established Civil Servants
2.6.1 Non-established civil servants, including industrial civil servants, generally have the same pension terms as established staff, with the exception that, as these staff are in full (Class A) PRSI, the pensions of all non-established civil servants are integrated with State Social Insurance benefits. Thus, pension is calculated by reference to net pensionable remuneration (as explained at paragraph 2.5.4 above) in all cases. There is no pension contribution under the main scheme. A contribution rate of 1½% of net remuneration applies under the spouses' and children's contributory pension scheme. Net pensionable remuneration is not readjusted when calculating spouses' and children's pensions (unlike the position of civil servants who become established on or after 6 April 1995 - see paragraph 2.5.4).

2.6.2 The retirement age is 65/66 years, with no provision to retire at an earlier age, other than on grounds of ill-health. Non-established staff are not eligible for professional added years.
2.6.3 Extra-statutory gratuities are payable to part-time staff in the civil service who have worked for 10 or more hours per week and have completed five years service. They are payable on retirement after age 60 and are calculated at the rate of one weeks pay for each year of service up to 15 years and two weeks pay for each subsequent year subject to a maximum of 78 weeks
 
Thanks again Justsally - just realised that I'm confusing Civil Servant with Public Servant or "State Employee" - Civil Service pension benefits seem to be greater than the State Employee benefits on the modeler- presumably HSE means "State Employee" as in my case.
I guess therefore that the pension calculation is going to be 1/80th current salary multiplied by years service LESS the OAP benefits at normal retirement age? Don't know how that works out in the early retirement scenario but I'm beginning to guess that the IERS isn't as attractive as it first seemed.
Does this make sense?
 
BBR,
I am not up to speed with the HSE pension scheme that you are a member of.
However I believe that the non-established pensions modeller for staff recruited prior to 1st April 2004 would be the one you should enter your details on.

PRSI A class pensions are made up of two elements:
1. Part of pension is paid by employer (in your case HSE) plus
2. State pension

A supplementary pension is payable to PRSI Class A people from age 60 to age 65/65, where a person is not working and not receiving social welfare after retirement. It is payable only until the person recieves the state pension at age 65/66.

What makes the early retirement unattractive is that the supplementary pension cannot be applied for until age 60 (i.e. minimum retirement age for the majority of public servants).

Therefore if a PRSI Class A person retires at age 55 under this early retirement, they would receive the employer part of the pension but they could not apply for the supplementary element until age 60. At age sixty if they are not working and not receiving social welfare, they would along with the employer pension, receive a supplementary pension until they get state pension at 60/65.


E
 
Evening- your explanation makes a lot of sense and thanks for that; it seems to fit my situation but a bit.
At the end of the day, for all the criticism and a near lifetime commitment people rather than profit, State Employee pensions are really not worth much are they?
Strikes me that Cowan / Lenihan and the one who would suit a pointed hat & cauldron (take your pick), are pulling another fast one, encouraged by devious commentators feigning indignance at the "public service" pensions bonanza.
What a dilemma ?
 
Evening, your reply has been very helpful to me. Many thanks.:)

The bottom line for me is that as I'm entitled to a full state pension I will not benefit from any employer's pension.
 
Justsally - it appears that way alright, from Evening's helpful exlanation.
Apologies for that bit of an outburst in my posting last night - I suppose it was fueled by :
-the reality that our pension contributions are really worth very little after all
-it looks like we are being set up for yet another rip off by our political leaders to pay for their incompetence and the excesses of their friends and associates
and
-one glass of red wine and a packet of Bombay Mix.
Ah well.....
 
Justsally - Apologies for that bit of an outburst in my posting last night - I suppose it was fueled by :
-the reality that our pension contributions are really worth very little after all
Ah well.....


Public sector pension conts are very good value when compared with the benefits.

For example, a Garda's pension would cost €1m to buy on the open market, while the Gurad would contributed maybe 10-15-20% of this.
 
This claim by Charlie Weston in the Irish Independent was refuted as follows:

"
I refer to the article in Saturday’s paper by Charlie Weston, ‘Garda pension worth €1.1m’, which purported to show that Gardai retired after 30 years as ‘millionaires’ as the size of their imaginary pension fund would have to be €1.1m to fund the lump sum and pension.

Once again, these misleading calculations are being used to portray the public sector pension as ‘golden’or much more favourable than other pensions. The fact is that, in the example of the Garda used, that garda’s lump sum of €79,233 together with his pension of €26,422 annually, to age 80, which is in excess of average lifespan for a male in Ireland, amounts to a grand total of €871,563 approx. This is the ‘cash’ cost of that garda’s pension if he or she is lucky enough to live to age 80 – very few public servants can retire at 50. In the case of the clerical officer, working to age 65, if he or she is lucky enough to live to age 80, the cash cost of pension and lump sum would be €59,352 + €296,760 which comes to a cash total of €356,112. Mr. Weston’s piece estimates the value of the pension ‘pot’ at €570,000. It is clear from these figures why the government has always chosen to fund pensions from current revenue. It cost less cash. The newly fashionable tend to place values on the cost of public sector pensions by comparing them to private pensions serves only to create resentment and division between the public and private sectors and create a public perception that public servants do not contribute enough to their pensions. Actuarial valuations of public sector pensions are misleading in the extreme.

 
Justsally - it appears that way alright, from Evening's helpful exlanation.
Apologies for that bit of an outburst in my posting last night - I suppose it was fueled by :
-the reality that our pension contributions are really worth very little after all
-it looks like we are being set up for yet another rip off by our political leaders to pay for their incompetence and the excesses of their friends and associates
and
-one glass of red wine and a packet of Bombay Mix.
Ah well.....

BBR It's not finished yet for you!!!:( I can't recall ever having made any contributions to a pension fund so it appears that there might be a difference between your pension entitlement/s and mine. I was, however, advised, recently, by the pensions department in the organisation which I once worked for that I would get a small pension at 65 - and as I'm not with that organisation now they haven't yet asked me whether or not I qualify for a State pension. I'm advising you of this so that you won't be deflected from thoroughly checking our your personal pension situation.

Cheers
 
Hi Justsally,
Many thanks for that ! You cheered me up for sure and interestingly today, I checked out the details with an independent advisor in the know. I overlooked that the "incentivisation" aspect does include supplementary allowance to bring the pension up to 1/80th current salary multiplied by years service. That brings it back in line to some degree and makes it a bit more reasonable.
Suppose I do have a small pessimistic streak at times but there you go.
Thanks again for taking the trouble to alert me.
 
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