Professional added years for public service pension

The Ghoul

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Is anyone here knowledgable on the awarding of professional added years to public servants for pension purposes.

The formula for working out the number of years that can be awarded seems to be:

19 + Q + E - 25 for those recruited after 2004.
18 + Q + E -18 (provided that 18 + Q + E exceeds 25) for those recruited before 2005.

Where Q is the minimum number of years necessary to obtain the required qualifcation for the position.
Where E is the number of years of essential experience required for the position.

Am I correct with this?

Also, with regard to "E", is this the number of years of experience required on initial recruitment to the public service or the number of years required for the individual's current position?

Eg two people start working in the public service in professional graduate grades (0 years of experience required)

20 years later, one of them is still in the same grade while the other gets a promotion to a grade which requires 5 years of experience.

Is "E" for now 0 for one and 5 for the other? Or is it 0 for both?

Thanks
 
It only applies on first entry, as far as I know.

The purpose of offering it is to compensate for the years of service you would miss while getting the necessary experience.
If your experience is gained while already serving, then you haven't missed anything, and can't reasonably expect to be credited for the same years twice.

E would remain 0 for both in your example.
 
It only applies on first entry, as far as I know.

The purpose of offering it is to compensate for the years of service you would miss while getting the necessary experience.
If your experience is gained while already serving, then you haven't missed anything, and can't reasonably expect to be credited for the same years twice.

E would remain 0 for both in your example.
Thanks, that would be my opinion also.

However I know a few people (local authority workers) who are adamant that promotions while in service can increase "E".
 
If meeting the requirements didn't prevent them from getting 40 years of service, then I can't see that they would have a case for getting added years.
Note that the second reference below says that prior service may affect any award of extra years.

From the DSP green paper on pensions
http://www.welfare.ie/en/downloads/greenpaperchapter13.pdf
13.9
Notional added years of pensionable service
are granted to certain public servants
recruited in professional, technical and
specialist grades. These years are intended
to compensate for the inability of individuals
in such positions to qualify (by pension age)
for a full pension based on 40 years’ service
because of the essential requirements
for appointment to the job e.g. specialist
qualifications and/or length of required
experience.
From the cspensions website
http://www.cspensions.gov.ie/faq1.asp#28
28. What are added years?

Notional service or added years may be awarded in certain exceptional cases:-

i. On ill-health retirement;
ii. Where the essential competition requirements (e.g. qualifications, experience, age requirements) are such as to preclude appointment by age 25;
iii. On recruitment to certain designated grades.

The award of added years at (ii) and (iii) can only be confirmed at retirement. The amount of the award at (ii) and (iii) may be affected by an individual's circumstances such as retained benefits e.g. prior service, prior occupational pension, State Pension Benefits or age on leaving service.
 
Thanks Berni for those links. I have been doing some googling myself and found mention of added year awards of "up to 1/3rd of actual service", I'm not sure how this relates to the formula I posted in my first post.

1/3rd of actual service is mentioned in the quote below. This quote implies a minimum retirement age of 60 so I think it applies to those initially recruited before 2005 (or is it 2004)
Certain officers appointed to professional, technical and specialist posts may be eligible for added years on retirement under the LGSS – either the Local Government Act 1926 or the Ad Hoc Scheme.

At present under the Local Government Act 1926, an individual is entitled to a gross award of professional added years of up to 1/3 of their actual service, up to a maximum of 10 years.

However, an individual who leaves service before the age of 60 is not entitled to any added years and if he/she retires between 60 and 65 the added years entitlement is reduced by the period between their date of retirement and their 65th birthday, e.g. a person aged 60 has their gross entitlement reduced by 5 years.The same rules apply to an award under the Ad Hoc Scheme.
I spoke to a couple of people this morning and they had heard of the 1/3rd rule but were not aware of 18 + Q + E -18
 
This is the way I've been told PROFESSIONAL ADDED YEARS works for the local authorities. This applies for pension calculations and lump sum calculations from the local authority.
Say service of 15 years and retiring at age 63:
1/3 of 15 years is allowed less age difference between retirement age and 65
this gives 15 years + 5 years less ( 65 –63)
=20 years less 2 years = 18 years.
However, can anyone inform me what years are used in the calculation of an AVC lump sum : the actual years or the actual years plus the additional years?
 
I am currently working in an Institute of Technology. The requirements for my post were a degree and a masters. There was also a requirement to have 3 years post quallification service to become permenant which I did not have when I was recruited so I had a fixed term contract for the first couple of years. How many years should it take to get a Masters Quallification based on the calculation above. In my case it took a long time 10 years as I was studying part time.
 
The number of years allowed for a masters will be the minimum amount of time it would take a person to complete the course on a full time basis. If the post qualification experience was gained whilst working in the IOT on a temporary contract and this service is pensionable then the PQE period will not be allowed for added years.
 
As I was recruited before 2005 is this correct.

18 + Q + E -18 (provided that 18 + Q + E exceeds 25) for those recruited before 2005.

Q =6 (Degree 4 + Masrers 2) E = 3


18 + 6 +3 -18 = 9 added years, less 2 years where I was part time contract as not quallified. = 7 added years
 
I found the original job requirements for my first public sector role.

It was a degree together with 3 years post-graduate experience.

18 + Q + E -18 (provided that 18 + Q + E exceeds 25) for those recruited before 2005.

18 + 4 + 3 -18 = 7 added years.

I joined in 1999
 
I found the original job requirements for my first public sector role.

It was a degree together with 3 years post-graduate experience.

18 + Q + E -18 (provided that 18 + Q + E exceeds 25) for those recruited before 2005.

18 + 4 + 3 -18 = 7 added years.

I joined in 1999

As you joined in 1999 you would seem to be in what is called the "New Scheme" (ie, between 1st April 1997 and 1st April 2005).

The formula seems to be 19 + Q + E - 25. There is a reduction if you are retiring before minimal retirement age.

See 9.4, and specifically 9.4.4, in the link below.

Calculation of Gross Award:
In cases where the prescribed minimum qualifications and/or experience preclude appointment by age 25 - see paragraph (2)(a) of Section 9.4.3 above –
the gross award is the figure arrived at by the formula 19 + A + B - 25.

where A is the minimum number of years in which the qualifications (if any) can be obtained;
and B is the minimum number of years of essential experience required (if any).


http://www.cspensions.gov.ie/SuperannuationHandbookandGuidanceDec20061.pdf
 
As you joined in 1999 you would seem to be in what is called the "New Scheme" (ie, between 1st April 1997 and 1st April 2005).

The formula seems to be 19 + Q + E - 25. There is a reduction if you are retiring before minimal retirement age.

See 9.4, and specifically 9.4.4, in the link below.

Calculation of Gross Award:
In cases where the prescribed minimum qualifications and/or experience preclude appointment by age 25 - see paragraph (2)(a) of Section 9.4.3 above –
the gross award is the figure arrived at by the formula 19 + A + B - 25.

where A is the minimum number of years in which the qualifications (if any) can be obtained;
and B is the minimum number of years of essential experience required (if any).


http://www.cspensions.gov.ie/SuperannuationHandbookandGuidanceDec20061.pdf
[/QUOTE
As you joined in 1999 you would seem to be in what is called the "New Scheme" (ie, between 1st April 1997 and 1st April 2005).

The formula seems to be 19 + Q + E - 25. There is a reduction if you are retiring before minimal retirement age.

See 9.4, and specifically 9.4.4, in the link below.

Calculation of Gross Award:
In cases where the prescribed minimum qualifications and/or experience preclude appointment by age 25 - see paragraph (2)(a) of Section 9.4.3 above –
the gross award is the figure arrived at by the formula 19 + A + B - 25.

where A is the minimum number of years in which the qualifications (if any) can be obtained;
and B is the minimum number of years of essential experience required (if any).


http://www.cspensions.gov.ie/SuperannuationHandbookandGuidanceDec20061.pdf

Many thanks, That looks like 1 yea3 19 +4 + 3 -25
 
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