PAYE and rental income question

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rupert7

Registered User
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Hi
I am PAYE and also have income tax as rental income.

I filled out the PAYE form on ROS online and included my rental income minus expenses etc.
I rang revenue to make sure that its sorted and they tell me they have no record of me that I need to apply for a RAN number
as it is seperate to PAYE. THe girl seemed confused herself and didn't fill me with confidence.

Surely its all managable under the ROS online system and I don't have to apply for a RAN number waiting 10 working days???

The lady sounded like it was her first day on the job so just wanted to clarify!!
Any help would be much appreciated.
 
Are you registered for ROS (for which they send a pin and a number out to you over a 10 day period) and you fill in a form 11 or is it the form 12 PAYE anytime online you filled in.
 
elcato said:
Are you registered for ROS (for which they send a pin and a number out to you over a 10 day period) and you fill in a form 11 or is it the form 12 PAYE anytime online you filled in.
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Thanks for reply.
I am registered with ROS and filled out the form 12 PAYE.
It contained a section to fill out the rental income minus expenses etc. so I figured that was all I had to fill out.
Do i have to fill out a form 11 also?
 
I believe you are mixing two things up. ROS needs registering and you fill out a form 11. PAYE anytime online is for the normal paye worker and you can file a form 12 for any extra income there without registering for ROS. If it's the latter you are using then you should be able to go back in and check that the completed form is still there. You may not have hit submit or something like that. If you rang the ROS number she may think you have completed that online and is looking in the wrong place.
 
elcato said:
I believe you are mixing two things up. ROS needs registering and you fill out a form 11. PAYE anytime online is for the normal paye worker and you can file a form 12 for any extra income there without registering for ROS. If it's the latter you are using then you should be able to go back in and check that the completed form is still there. You may not have hit submit or something like that. If you rang the ROS number she may think you have completed that online and is looking in the wrong place.
Click to expand...
 
elcato said:
I believe you are mixing two things up. ROS needs registering and you fill out a form 11. PAYE anytime online is for the normal paye worker and you can file a form 12 for any extra income there without registering for ROS. If it's the latter you are using then you should be able to go back in and check that the completed form is still there. You may not have hit submit or something like that. If you rang the ROS number she may think you have completed that online and is looking in the wrong place.
Click to expand...

Thanks elcato.
I rang up revenue today and got more conflicting messages from them!
PAYE section tells me I have to fill out a form 11 as the rental income is "income tax" and dealt with by a different section.
The income tax section tells me that since the net income (After expenses, mortgage interest taken away) is less than £6000 that I "shouldn't need to" fill out a form 11 but that sometimes people do!!

Still non the wiser which I need to do!

I did fill out and submit the form 12 and got a balancing statement which has the rental income recorded on it so i'm hoping thats enough
 
rupert7 said:
I did fill out and submit the form 12 and got a balancing statement which has the rental income recorded on it so i'm hoping thats enough
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This should suffice. To be clear, the rule is any net tax to be paid which is greater than 3809 euro requires a form 11. Next year it is increases to 5k. Thems are the rules but I'm not sure how strict they are on it cos as you stated revenue are not fully informed on it.
 
elcato said:
This should suffice. To be clear, the rule is any net tax to be paid which is greater than 3809 euro requires a form 11. Next year it is increases to 5k. Thems are the rules but I'm not sure how strict they are on it cos as you stated revenue are not fully informed on it.
Click to expand...

Thanks, you have been most helpful
 
elcato said:
This should suffice. To be clear, the rule is any net tax to be paid which is greater than 3809 euro requires a form 11. Next year it is increases to 5k. Thems are the rules but I'm not sure how strict they are on it cos as you stated revenue are not fully informed on it.
Click to expand...

Do you have a link for this?

I understand that everyone with income which is subject to tax is a chargable person! But there are exemptions one of which is where the taxpayer has PAYE income and a small amount of other income and they pay the tax on that income through their tax credits.

[broken link removed]

So unless you have paid the tax on your rental income through your PAYE then you are a chargable person and should file a form 11.
 
First line on the revenue forms states a form 12 for PAYE workers but not the limit. I was asked by revenue this year to fill a form 11 as my net income outside of PAYE was greater than the 3800 but they also advised me that next year I would be OK with a form 12 as they're increasing it to 5k. What brought me over the threshold was share options on top of the rental income. I completed form 12 for the last ten years with no problems.
I understand that everyone with income which is subject to tax is a chargable person! But there are exemptions one of which is where the taxpayer has PAYE income and a small amount of other income and they pay the tax on that income through their tax credits.
Click to expand...
Yep - very confusing but from what I have read here from a reputed few the form 12 has a limit and does not need regsitering for ROS.
 
We will have to agree to disagree.

From the front of the Form 12:
3. An individual with a PAYE source of income and with net assessable non-PAYE income (including income subject to DIRT), of €3,174 or more is regarded as a ‘chargeable person’ for Self-Assessment and must file a Form 11 for that year.

4. An individual with a PAYE source of income and net assessable non-PAYE income less than €3,174 (after losses, capital allowances and other reliefs), and where the income is coded against PAYE tax credits or fully taxed at source, is not regarded as a ‘chargeable person’.
 
Its really not that complicated.

If you have an income you must declare it to Revenue for tax purposes. This is done through Form-11.

If your employer returns details of your income through the paye system, and you have no further income or deductions, you may decide that you don't need to send Revenue a Form-11 as well.

If you have small and simple income beyond the paye system you may be able to return details on a simplified form called a Form-12.

If you have greater or more complex income you must complete a Form-11.

If you are in doubt, it is never wrong to return a Form-11. Its called self-assessment, you have to decide if your complete income, and entitlements to any deductions, has been captured by paye or Form-12, if not submit a Form-11.
 
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