Overwhelming business & personal debt: solutions? including UK bankrupcy.

Hi Steve

Hello Steve,Ive been reading your posts Re Bankruptcy in Uk,I had a small business here in Ireland,not huge debts by any means,€25,000 to bank,€7,000 to a supplier,but im on dole here at moment,so def no chance of making payments,Im singe,no kids,no mortgage,no van,this was repossessed,€5000 owed on that,the bank loan was signed by meself my brother in law,because he had his own house,I have a brother in Uk,running his own small company,do you think its possible for me to just up/leave here,sign on dole there,find work,and go into bankruptcy
Regards Jamesy
 
The court order would be unenforceable in the UK. Once the bankruptcy happens it is a moot point anyways.
 
jamesy11 said:
Hello Steve,Ive been reading your posts Re Bankruptcy in Uk,I had a small business here in Ireland,not huge debts by any means,€25,000 to bank,€7,000 to a supplier,but im on dole here at moment,so def no chance of making payments,Im singe,no kids,no mortgage,no van,this was repossessed,€5000 owed on that,the bank loan was signed by meself my brother in law,because he had his own house,I have a brother in Uk,running his own small company,do you think its possible for me to just up/leave here,sign on dole there,find work,and go into bankruptcy
Regards Jamesy
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Hi Jamesy, yes it would be. We have many people who go bankrupt here for less than the amount you owe. Think very carefully however as it is a big step.
If you came here could you get work with and live with your brother?

Steve
 
@jamesy Just bear in mind that if your brother in law signed off on the loan, he is jointly liable, even after you go bankrupt yourself.

www.frost.ie
 
Hi Newlife,
I am a self-employed female and single parent in a very similar situation to you, and am also considering the UK Bankruptcy route.
I have spent the past 4-5 years working 60+ hrs a week for often less than the minimum wage, saving every penny I could by selling my car, cycling everywhere, not turning on the heating & buying all our clothes in charity shops (MABS say I am a model client) in an attempt to keep up with my Mortgage & other creditor payments.
I have been in Court 50-60 times during this period (representing myself), attempted to deal with my situation through the existing legal system which has brought me no closer to any kind of resolution, and has served only to line the pockets of the various Legal 'Professionals' who in the absence of easy money from Conveyancing have to rely on drawing out the legal process by requests for irrelevant 'particulars' & repeated adjournments to maximise their Fees.
During this period I have had zero quality of life, and the stress of these last few years are having a major detrimental impact on my physical & mental well being, in addition to all the precious time I have missed seeing my son grow up.
I work in an area where too many of the hard-working, conscientious & decent people I have worked with over the years have been driven to a more drastic & final solution to their financial problems when the system has failed them too.
I never imagined that I would consider the Bankruptcy route, and I think that like you I associate it with shame & failure, but from the past 4-5 years of following the experiences of other honourable & hard working individuals in similar situations through the media, I am beginning to realise that I have come to a fork in the road where one route will most likely lead to a life of partial or complete dependancy on the State & the other may be the only way back to being a productive & financially independant member of society.
I would be very interested in contacting you directly to discuss what I know of the process with you & perhaps supporting each other through the next few months.
 
Breach of a Court Instalment order could lead to commital proceedings being instigated. If you feel that your financial circumstances are such that you are unable to comply with the order then you can apply to the Court for a revised payment. In the interim it is best to maintain some level of payments on foot of this order & ensure that these payments are receipted.
Please note that that any advice here is general only and you should seek full guidance from a solicitor (acknowledging that your track record on receipt of advice to date does not appear to be good!!).
 
S.N.Dipity said:
Hi Newlife,
I am a self-employed female and single parent in a very similar situation to you, and am also considering the UK Bankruptcy route.

I worked hard all through my life (or so i think!!). I am 39 with wife and 2 kids. I bought first house in 2005 for 305000 and after one year decided to move to a bigger city so put that house on sale and bought another for 500000 with a condition from bank that i'll sell my previous house asap. However, things took a nasty (or realistic) turn by late 2006 and house prices plummeted fast as we all know.
Now, after so many years, i have 2 mortgages with 280000 due on first one and 490000 on second one ( i paid a bit on both). for last 6 months, I am unemployed and due to small kids, my wife doesn't work either. I couldn't afford hefty mortgage so moved out of my second house to rural Ireland in a cheaper house, down graded my car to old Micra, no holidays for last 2 years, no shopping from January sales, keeping my outgoings to the best minimum.
Currently, first house is i negative equity of almost 75000 and second one of 250000...i've rented out both of them but still there is deficit of almost 1100/pm. and on top of it, there is 1700 management charge on my second house.
By no means, i am able to pay that much deficit per month and have spoken to banks but there is no way the'll accept even interest only option as i had those houses on interest only for first 2 years..
i just dont know what to do....Any help/suggestion/way out....please

Thanks..


P.S. I know i am responsible for all this mess and as i am morally some what lower than all those builders/develops/NAMA dry cleaned people, so please advice as to get out of these mortgages rather than moral bull @#$t...sorry for being blunt but i am at breaking point especially when i read news of those a#$ holes living in English mansions while we are been told to be morally upright...my a@#e...
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Given your financial position as presented the banks have little option but to agree to a reduced payment schedule. With no income (assumed other than SW payments) the Banks will have to deal with you in accordance with your financial circumstance. If you have'nt done so already, make an appointment with MABs. Pay the Banks what you can afford from the rental income on the properties in the interim & cancel any direct debits to your loan accounts, pending reaching a formal agreement. Ultimately both propertis will need to be sold.
 
44brendan said:
Given your financial position as presented the banks have little option but to agree to a reduced payment schedule. With no income (assumed other than SW payments) the Banks will have to deal with you in accordance with your financial circumstance. If you have'nt done so already, make an appointment with MABs. Pay the Banks what you can afford from the rental income on the properties in the interim & cancel any direct debits to your loan accounts, pending reaching a formal agreement. Ultimately both propertis will need to be sold.
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Many thanks for your reply. I've spoken to both the banks and one of them even threatened me that by renting out my second house, i am in breach of contract as I've declared that as family home while buying it in 2006 (i lived in to it untill just 6 months ago), and they'll put that too in front of court...My feeling is that as banks probably know that its impossible for me to pay back the mortgage so they just want to speed up the process and get me declared bankrupt...will I end up in jail?? very very worried..
 
No you wont end up in jail. I don't believe they will want to bankrupt you either. It's not in their interest to do so. Not being able to rent out your house is a standard line, also not being able to run a business from your home.
 
Peter54 said:
No you wont end up in jail. I don't believe they will want to bankrupt you either. It's not in their interest to do so. Not being able to rent out your house is a standard line, also not being able to run a business from your home.
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Thanks for your reply. I've always been very honest and upfront with the banks and told them categorically that i am very efficient in my expenses and have no car loan, credit car loan, stores loan or any other kind of debt but off course having a young family of 2 kids is not cheap here and i told them that i m paying them every penny i get from the rent minus expenses on those 2 houses but everything seems to fall on dumb ears...I m seriously thinking of stopping all payments to those banks (both banks are major lenders in markets), spend thousands on my credit cards, get a hefty car loan (if I can!), wine and dine in style and once they go to the court, will run away to overseas !!!
 
This is an extraordinary approach from the Banks. The breach of contract issue is totally immaterial. I.e. They can certainly progress to Court to get posession of both properties, but realistically given the amount of negative equity apparent, you would be as well to co-operate in any re-posession proceedings over the properties.
You cannot end up in jail for failing to pay debts. This issue could onkly arise in a Court Order for installments, which the Banks are unlikely to request given your financial circumstances.
If your only income is from SW, then these payments are required to maintain your family. Any income over and above that ( assumed rent only) can be used to service your borrowings. bankruptcy proceedings will not be instigated against you. However, you may well consider the UK option of a voluntary bankruptcy in order to avoid the residual debt hanging over you for up to 6 years (statute of limitations). Don't be intimidated by threats from the Banks. If you are co-operative to the extent of your own ability, they can expect no more and Court threats will not enable them to get "blood from a stone". Keep your chin up and best of luck!
 
southdublin said:
I m seriously thinking of stopping all payments to those banks (both banks are major lenders in markets), spend thousands on my credit cards, get a hefty car loan (if I can!), wine and dine in style and once they go to the court, will run away to overseas !!!
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Don't do this southdublin. You are following the correct procedure in what you are doing, pay your household bills first and for your rental propeties continue to pay the bank the rent (less expenses), you have to learn to deal with the threatening letters from the banks. They are not going to bankrupt you or jail you. The letters are awful, but they cannot get blood from a stone. When you do go to court and show a judge you have acted honourable and fairly you will be heard. The banks will take the rental properties and the sooner the better for you, see this as a good thing so that you can start again. It's not a bad thing. Meantime try not to focus on the bank threats.

In relation to the breach of contract, I'm guessing what the bank means is that loan was for a family home and that you should have notified them that you rented it out, well now they know and so what. You had to do what you did. I sincerely hope you are only corresponding with the bank in writing?
 
S.N.Dipity said:
.
I have been in Court 50-60 times during this period (representing myself), .
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That's an amazing amount of times to go to court, this is banks and creditors trying to get instalment orders?

You could probably set up a new business advising people on what to do in court.

You didn't ask for any advice but maybe you and Newlife could take off to the UK together.
 
I have been in Court 50-60 times during this period (representing myself), attempted to deal with my situation through the existing legal system which has brought me no closer to any kind of resolution, and has served only to line the pockets of the various Legal 'Professionals' who in the absence of easy money from Conveyancing have to rely on drawing out the legal process by requests for irrelevant 'particulars' & repeated adjournments to maximise their Fees.
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Bloody hell! Talk about abuse of process. Most judges would not tolerate such carry on.
 
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