KBC Mortgage from 2007 with two separate offer letters

D

DamC82

Registered User
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With all the talk about IIB/KBC trackers I have taken to investigating my own paperwork from Jan 07. To my horror I have discovered that my first loan offer papers had a capped tracker REFI plus 1.25 no more than 4.99 for 3 years reverting to plus 1.25 for the remaining term.
For some inexplicable reason this letter was replaced 11 days later with another offer with a fixed rate of 4.99 which at the end of the term we reverted to variable as the aforementioned tracker was pulled. In light of recent revelations regarding KBC IIB should my loan reverted to tracker after the initial 3 year fixed?
 
You had a letter of offer with a tracker. You didn't sign it, so it's now irrelevant.

You have a signed contract which makes no mention of a tracker, so I imagine that is the one which counts.

If you had wanted a tracker back in January 2007, you could have asked for one or gone elsewhere.

Brendan
 
Thats what I feared. Felt sick to the pit of my stomach when I discovered it.
I cannot understand why I would passed up the capped tracker in favour of a higher fixed rate.
I didn't make any sense, and turned out to be a monumental error in the short and more so in the long term
 
Why wouldn't you have opted for a fixed at that point in time? Lots of people did, unless you had a crystal ball you could not know how valuable a tracker would become. Hell, I sold them all the time and it was just another product, no better no worse than the alternatives depending on the customer situation. No point attributing knowledge you now have to a point in time when it wasn't available.
 
Monbretia said:
Why wouldn't you have opted for a fixed at that point in time? Lots of people did, unless you had a crystal ball you could not know how valuable a tracker would become. Hell, I sold them all the time and it was just another product, no better no worse than the alternatives depending on the customer situation. No point attributing knowledge you now have to a point in time when it wasn't available.
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Perhaps Im reading this wrong but from what I can see the capped tracker should have been a no-brainer.
We wanted a three year period of certainty , where our payments wouldnt exceed a particular amount.
The capped was for 3 years, the same as we fixed. The capped was @4.99 max, The fixed 5.25.

The capped could only go one way, at that time it was at its limit.
I agree with you about the crystal ball stuff but that was staring me in the face , or am I wrong?...
 
Many people including mortgage brokers did not appreciate the value of trackers. You will find that posters on askaboutmoney strongly recommended them at the time. But even then some posters thought fixing more important than a price promise.
 
In my view I think there is a case to be answered.

The bank would have know which was the better product for them, why else would they come out it. From what I can see there was no advantage to you at all in taking the second offer.

Did you request the second offer or did they issue it of their own accord?

One of the general principles of the code of conduct is

"acts with due skill, care and diligence in the best interests of its customers"

That second offer wasn't in your best interest, it was in there's, I don't believe for one moment that the bank didn't know what they were doing when they came up with the product in that second offer. It was purely to get you off the tracker product. In my view very unfair and sneaky business.
 
Im afraid
todo said:
In my view I think there is a case to be answered.

The bank would have know which was the better product for them, why else would they come out it. From what I can see there was no advantage to you at all in taking the second offer.

Did you request the second offer or did they issue it of their own accord?

One of the general principles of the code of conduct is

"acts with due skill, care and diligence in the best interests of its customers"

That second offer wasn't in your best interest, it was in there's, I don't believe for one moment that the bank didn't know what they were doing when they came up with the product in that second offer. It was purely to get you off the tracker product. In my view very unfair and sneaky business.
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To be honest I cannot say for certain if we requested a second offer, I do know as a very young couple starting off we wanted security and had we been fully informed as to the benefits of the capped tracker over a fixed at that time I'm 100% sure we'd have gone with the tracker.
 
I wonder would you have though? I advised many people of what I saw as the benefits of a tracker but they still opted for fixed or even standard variables. People make decisions for lots of different reasons, there was a lot of hesitancy and lack of familiarity with the concept of a new type of rate such as a tracker. Many people who were offered a switch to tracker did not avail of it, preferring to stay with the standard tried and trusted familiar type rates.

Just because I might have thought it was in their best interests didn't take away their free will to choose what they wanted.

Another great product was the current account/offset mortgage which was a fierce hard sell, people were always looking for the catch.
 
A mortgage that has a condition where the lender has complete control over the rate, i.e can charge you what ever interest rate they like, could never ever be in the customers best interest, its completely unfair.

Our central bank and regulator are completely away at sea when it comes to protecting the consumer, it seems to me all they care about is making sure that banks have plenty of profit.

Another example is giving the banks 8 years of free gouging and still letting them continue, they should have been given six months to sort all this out, or at a minimum stop overcharging until they are sure they are not in the wrong.
 
I received correspondence yesterday from KBC confirming that our account is part of the review because we were originally on a tracker in first loan offer.
Is this a cause for optimism or just a case of KBC ticking boxes?
Realistically is there any chance anything will come of this review in customers favour?
 
I hope there is cause to be optimistic, I think its clear that KBC pulled a fast one, they knew what they were doing with the second offer, the advantage was all on their side, their was nothing in it for you.
We can only hope that the central bank enforces the code of conduct to the letter.

Out of curiosity what was the exact wording in their letter. Are they declaring that you were on a tracker at one point, even though you did not accept that offer at the time.
 
todo said:
I hope there is cause to be optimistic, I think its clear that KBC pulled a fast one, they knew what they were doing with the second offer, the advantage was all on their side, their was nothing in it for you.
We can only hope that the central bank enforces the code of conduct to the letter.

Out of curiosity what was the exact wording in their letter. Are they declaring that you were on a tracker at one point, even though you did not accept that offer at the time.
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Hi todo, when I queried why I was part of the review the response was,

''There was a loan offer issued on your account offering a tracker rate which your broker requested to change to a 3 year fixed rate.

Due to this you have been included in the review and as previously stated you will be advised of the outcome of this by the end of September.''

For the life of me I cant recall if or why Id have passed up the capped tracker for a higher rate fixed, especially had it been fully explained.
The broker has no records and KBC are batting it back to them.
 
One question I would have is, what evidence do KBC have that shows the broker requested a change to a 3 year fixed rate.

Is it possible that KBC issued a new offer to the broker in the hope that he/she would advise you to take it.
 
todo said:
One question I would have is, what evidence do KBC have that shows the broker requested a change to a 3 year fixed rate.

Is it possible that KBC issued a new offer to the broker in the hope that he/she would advise you to take it.
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Thats quite possible, I have asked that question as to how the second offer came to be but the answer is 'ask your broker'...

Broker maintains they only keep records for x amount of years and no longer hold a file on our account.

Do you think Id be entitiled to seek that evidence? If they cant provide such would I have a case, or am I just clutching at straws?
 
Your definitely entitled to seek the evidence that your broker requested it.

This is just my view, I believe you do have a case as they are in breach of the consumer protection code.

That product in the second offer was of no benefit to you what so ever, it was completely in their favour.

One of the principles of the consumer protect code is as follows

"acts with due skill, care and diligence in the best interests of its customers"
 
todo said:
Your definitely entitled to seek the evidence that your broker requested it.

This is just my view, I believe you do have a case as they are in breach of the consumer protection code.

That product in the second offer was of no benefit to you what so ever, it was completely in their favour.

One of the principles of the consumer protect code is as follows

"acts with due skill, care and diligence in the best interests of its customers"
Click to expand...

Thanks for that, Im going to write and request that evidence.
I wont hold my breath on it but nothing to lose!
 
Can you please update regarding your resolution ?
Did anything work for you. I am in the exact same situation as you are. Can you update.
 
Hi there, nothing positive im afraid.

I got emails from KBC with correspondence between them & the broker requesting the change to fixed.

Are you included in the review? We are , but I dont really see it anything coming of it in our favour.
Whats your situation?
 
Denton/DamC82
Did you sign the tracker offer? (Variable)

Did your fixed rate say SVR (Standard Variable Rate) or "prevailing variable rate" would apply at end of fixed term?
The flyer issued to brokers was in circulation at that time (all fixed loans will roll to tracker)
From reading posts on this website and others those fixed loans (fixed from beginning) that did roll to tracker rates didn't mention any wording regarding tracker rates.
Kbc have confirmed you are in the review so there must be good reason.
 
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