Irish school (gaelscoil)-beneficial or not?

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lucylou

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Hi,
im in a bit of a dilemma, I have my 4 year old enrolled to start in a school in September, a very good school by all accounts(st Thomas in Lucan). I was talking to my neighbour whose little boy is due to start school this year also. She has got him a place in the Irish school in Lucan. Neither of the parents speak Irish.
I started thinking about this as i Studied Irish for four years at university level, about ten years ago. I have kind of fallen out of speaking it as the years went on, but I would still be fluent if i got back into it.
I rang the Irish school out of curiosity and they said they would be delighted to take him, considering I am a Gaelgeoir. Now Im in a bit of confusion, as I dont know what is the best option for him. Anyone got any ideas/experiences/opinions on Irish schools?
Go raibh maith agaibh!!
 
Re: Irish school-beneficial or not?

I had the same dilema 14 years ago but without the background in Irish that you have . I made the decision to try the gaelscoil for a year to see how it would go and I never looked back. I have had two children through gaelscoil at primary level and I would never change one moment of it. They are now both fluent Irish speakers and have Irish parked as done and dusted, one is leaving cert this year , the other junior cert. I remember them tackling the modh connealeach (forgive the spelling) at 10 years in 4th class, I could not understand it for my leaving cert! They both go to English-language secondary school and are streets ahead of their ex-english-primary school classmates. The eldest, leaving cert. this year, bemoans the fact that he cannot express himself more freely in the Irish written exams he complains that the test is too restrictive. Honestly it is a great decision to send your kids there, I see my 4 nieces aged 8 to 12 struggling with Irish in their schools and they are all bright kids. The gaelscoil was way better. The only drawback I ever found was when travelling around the country my kids did not have the english names for anything geographically, historically, etc.. Thank goodness for those bi-lingual signs.
 
Re: Irish school-beneficial or not?

Look at the class size & school resources. Both my younger brother & sister went to gaelscoil & gael colaiste as the pupil teacher ratio was much lower there. Both got fab leaving results in the end.& are fluent in Irish.

The teachers can afford to give more 1 to 1 individual attention in smaller class sizes & this can only benefit the child.

The school also did a lot of extra curricular activities not available in main stream - music, dancing, swimming ,drama, french.etc

Do your research before you make your mind up.
 
Re: Irish school-beneficial or not?

My daughter is in the gaelscoil in Leixlip Scoil ui Dhailaigh. Its a great school and I dont regret one moment sending her there. The classes are smaller and she loves it. Im not fluent in Irish but I can manage fine with her with the homework etc. I have my other daughter enrolled allready and she is only 9 months. Im not sure what to do now about secondary whether to send her to the Irish secondary school in Lucan or to an english speaking one. I wouldnt say there is any extra benefits to sending them to an Irish school, but for me the smaller classes were an incentive, also the disipline was a big issue also for sport, they do camogie, hurling, gaelic, etc and also the music side, violin, flute etc..
Most schools have their own websites which should be of help..
 
Re: Irish school-beneficial or not?

i suppose my main concern would be how difficult it will be for himself, I mean they really dont speak any english at all from the moment they walk in the door??! I just would hate for him to struggle through it, especially seeing as i have never spoken any irish to him before? I prob should have done so before now.
 
Irish school-beneficial or not?

Children don't "struggle" with second (or third, fourth, fifth and sixth, for that matter!) languages. The earlier children are exposed to different languages the easier the acquisition and (as the numerous other posters above have indicated) acquiring and learning through more than one language develops intelligence.

Adults struggle with new and diverse knowledge which children just take in their stride.
 
yes i am aware that children benefit from languages early on, I also studied linguistics as part of my degree, and have been in the childcare sector for a number of years. i know children are like little sponges when it comes to learning. Maybe what Im asking is not so much will he struggle, but will he be any better off than if he was in an English speaking school? I'm so confused, I just want to do whats best for him!!
Do other posters think its good for him to know his national language, or is it worth it? I know the smaller class sizes would be appealing, But maybe Im just thinking back to my old school days when we had a dragon teaching us Irish, she was very old fashioned and didnt make Irish learning fun!!
 
I had similar concerns before my son started in Gaelscoil but the methods they use are really excellent. Remember all the other kids are in the same boat too, very few if any will come from an Irish speaking household. In the school my kids went to the teacher would say something in Irish and then repeat it in English and gradually reduce the amount of English being used, by Christmas she was speaking only Irish to the children. In emergency situations or where any child obviously did not understand or was upset over anything the teachers reverted to English, it is not like the old days of all or nothing education. At my sons birthday party, the December after he started school, we were very amused to find him addressing his creche friends in English and his school friends in Irish - he even started to talk in Irish in his sleep!
 
I reread your last post - Is it worth it - I certainly think so . Regarding the National Labnguage thing, it was not something I really thought about when I made the decisiion to send him there in the first place, but now that he is doing his leaving cert this June I see his classmates who went to english speaking schools really struggling with Irish whilst he hardly has to work at it atal. Irish is still a compulsary subject and will probably stay that way. It is marvellous that both my kids are struggle free in this subjest at school. Ypu can come accross nasty teachers in any school and you will not like every teacher your son has in his 8 years at school no matter what school you choose. However you mey encounter my son who is hoping to do primary school teaching next year and hopes to teach in a gaelscoil in the future! (He cannot imagine it any other way)
 
I sent my daughter to a Gaelscoil because my own Irish was so bad. She was in the Naoinra for a year before starting in Low Infants so it gave her a bit of a start. I also started using my very basic Irish with her: Feach, feach ar an eh er ah gluaistean, tar ansin etc and it worked really well. Other kids started with not a focal at all and the teachers managed really well. They really enjoyed it. Now she's in English speaking secondary and is best in her class at Irish, regularly of her own choice watches TG4, and has read Harry Potter as gaeilge. I'm so pleased I went that route. And while I did a parents class that the primary school organised, you won't have to do this! It's also great for her to have a subject that she fiinds easy. We're expecting 'eeasy honours' here!
PS found out later that gluaistean was archaic ..... it's now 'carr'. ho hum.
 
we should start up french or spanish schools.... that way they would get all the same benefits, plus they would learn a language that will be of some benefit to them.

I know I will offend people by saying this but apart from the heritage aspect Irish has no use whatsoever.

I find it sad that people are sending their kids to Irish schools in order to escape large class sizes etc... rather than because Irish is useful.
 
There is a French school I know of however it is not in my locality. I don't know of any others . However i do in some sense agree a little bit with the Poster above, is the language going to stand to him in the future, or is he going to be like me as I said in my OP and I havent spoken any Irish since I left college. In terms of my son's learning capacity though I feel that learning a new language so young can only benefit him, even if he is not going to use it in adulthood. Whethter it is French, Spanish or Irish or whatever, surely a second language is going to be beneficial to his learning potential?
 
I wonder if a child who is already bilingual would benefit from a gaelscoil or would it just be too much or confusing?

Also I assume that a child would have to go to an irish primary school if they want to go to an irish secondary school?
 
There are other benefits, Gaeilscoileanna get higher capitation grants and have a better student-teacher ratio. As well as helping the child later when doing Irish in the Leaving and making other languages easier to pick up, it may also allow him or her to do other exams through Irish and receive 10% bonus marks.

There's some elitism involved with fluency in Irish that I find distasteful. But if everyone was aware of the advantages of gaelscoileanna then I believe the majority of parents would be insisting their children were educated through Irish.
 
PGD1 said:
we should start up french or spanish schools.... that way they would get all the same benefits, plus they would learn a language that will be of some benefit to them.

I know I will offend people by saying this but apart from the heritage aspect Irish has no use whatsoever.

I find it sad that people are sending their kids to Irish schools in order to escape large class sizes etc... rather than because Irish is useful.
Click to expand...


There are plenty of French or Spanish schools....in France & Spain.
This is Ireland we're talking about.

The Irish language may not seem useful now, but it's becoming extremely
popular in recent times perhaps spurred on by the new generation of people
who have been through the gaelscoil. These people don't see the language as
a burden of a subject or a useless language. It's just a different way of
communicating.

There are absolutely no downsides to being fluent in your national language. None.

A gaelscoil education can only be beneficial to any child, whether they choose to
use the language later on in life or not. At least they'll have the choice.
 
Disclaimer: I don't have kids.

I don't believe there is ever something that is all good. If you go to a school that is all-Irish speaking, then there MUST be some kind of a trade-off. It just depends on whether it is something you're willing to trade.

For one thing, in my area, the Irish schools are filled with children from a very narrow background range (i.e. white, middle-class, Irish Nationals). While I accept that it is the right of parents to educate their children as they see fit, I don't believe that this is good for the kids or society and definitely not something that should be encouraged by government by extra funding.

It seems kind of crazy that someone with a learning difficulty can get one-to-one tuition as part of the regular school system but yet many people are eschewing this system to be part of the Gaelscoil thing because of smaller schools/classes.

I would agree with the "usefulness" argument too. I would be far quicker to send a child of mine to a Spanish or French or German speaking school if I wanted them to be bi-lingual.

The kind of "Irishness" that a Gaelscoil promotes (at least in my area); over-emphasis of heritage etc. is getting too close to nationalism and patriotism for my tastes.

Rebecca
 
Just want to throw in my two cents worth on this. As my user name might suggest, I speak Irish fluently. I didn't attend an Irish speaking school, but rather was encouraged to learn the language from a young age although neither of my parents have particularly good Irish or any 'grá' for the language. Thankfully, I found that for myself. Speaking Irish fluently brings me daily benefits. Some friends (for various reasons) needed to brush up a bit lately and I was able to help them with it. In work I am owed no end of favours as I regularly assist colleagues with translations. (These favours can be redeemed as after work beverages or by having my name bumped up the list for a new printer for example). I converse with some of my other friends through Irish from time to time to keep up my fluency. I also found that when I was in school, I had a great advantage over other pupils as I understood almost everything in Irish and could concentrate on the academic side rather than the language itself. These are only small things but in my experience, speaking another language has brought me many benefits and has had no 'downside'. If OP decided against the Gaelscoil, in the future he could pack the child off to Irish college for a few weeks, which would also improve fluency. Its another option at least.
 
I don't agree that there has to be a trade off.. Or see anything wrong with being patriotic? Surely valuing your own nation and culture allows you to appreciate other cultures better.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Patriotism
"Patriotism denotes positive and supportive attitudes to a 'fatherland' (Latin patria < Greek patrida, πατρίδα), by individuals and groups. The 'fatherland' (or 'motherland') can be a region or a city, but patriotism usually applies to a nation and/or a nation-state. Patriotism covers such attitudes as: pride in its achievements and culture, the desire to preserve its character and the basis of the culture, and identification with other members of the nation."

Sure, Irish is not necessary. It may/may not be useful, but that will be a matter for the child when he/she grows up. If they end up speaking it regurlarly with their friends, take a sense of pride in it, or end up working in a job that requires Irish, then that will make it useful for them. If they don't ever use it again (unlikely) then at least being bilingual will give them the confidence of being able to master a further language. By sending them to a Gaelscoil they will become fluent Irish speakers unlike most of those that come out of the English medium schools.

I currently live in Switzerland (Zurich) where learning and speaking different languages is second nature. Here people speak and take pride in their local dialect, and learn German when they start school as a foreign language. The Swiss I work with generally speak at least 3 languages fluently. One girl grew up in a bi-lingual Romansch / Swiss German community, learnt German at school, is fluent in French and English, speaks a bit of Italian, and is learning Spanish. Only started learning English a couple of years ago, but speaks with almost perfect grammar, despite not having lived in an English speaking country.

We're fortunate in many ways that English is the main language of Ireland, but by virtue of it being the de-facto international language but there is one disadvantage: We don't have the same urgency to learn other languages, so generally we don't. Being an island doesn't help either.

Having Irish gave me the confidence to learn fluent Spanish in a couple of years, and I'm now learning German.
 
All the arguments that Irish is our language and should survive are fine and dandy.... but there are alot of people out there (lets say 75%) who are not brilliantly academic, and having to learn a language which is no longer used is a considerable waste of time and distracts them from what I would call "more useful" subjects... that might actually get them a job and allow them to live a more productive life.

I mean, how many jobs can TG4 create anyway!!

I have nothing against Irish... just the amount of focus it gets.

I don't think Irish speakers should get 10% bonus points.

I think the money spent on Irish and Irish schools could be spent better elsewhere.
 
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