Interesting account of one person's experience of bankruptcy

The reply I got from an email I sent to the Examiners office requesting information on my court date put me straight back to that parts department. Basically the gist of the email was that they have staff shortages in the office, are not currently processing self adjudicated applications and cannot say when they will be in the future

What is the Examiner's Office?

Are they giving priority to people who can pay an Insolvency Practitioner or Solicitor to process the case for them?

OK, it seems to be a step for people who have not tried a PIA or DSA. They get a cert from a PIP, to say that there is no point in a PIA and this must be approved by the Examiner's Office.

Brendan
 
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The blog is very frustrating in that it gives no financial details.

To whom does he owe money? I would like to see his assets and liabilities.

He seems to be a mature student and has a list of things which keep him busy while he is bankrupt. But bankruptcy should not mean unemployment. He is obviously very talented. Why is he not working?

He talks about homelessness. Bankrupts don't need to be homeless.

Brendan
 
Brendan Burgess said:
What is the Examiner's Office?


Brendan
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Hi Brendan,

Firstly, thank you for giving my blog a mention. I had to think long and hard about speaking publicly about the experience and what the implications may be, I hope it will be of benefit to some people.

I am guilty of assuming that people reading the blog will have some understanding of the process, I shall amend the post and provide further explanation in future on points that are not common knowledge.

My bankruptcy forms are lodged with the Examiner's Office. This is an office attached to the courts service who take care of the administration before I go to court. Once they are satisfied that my forms are in order, they will give me a court date for my adjudication hearing. This will be my only dealings with them in the process.
 
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Hi pat

I have some understanding of the process generally, but have not had any direct experience of it step by step.

So I had not realised that there was this "Examiners Office" step and how long it takes.

From reading your threads on askboutmoney, I can sort of figure out your path. But I think your blog should be standalone.

You should set out the figures and why the PIA was not suitable.

Also the reaction of Bank of Ireland would be very interesting.

Are you still paying BoI or have you stopped?


Brendan
 
Brendan Burgess said:
The blog is very frustrating in that it gives no financial details.

To whom does he owe money? I would like to see his assets and liabilities.
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Brendan,

It was not my intention to frustrate anybody. Please remember that it is not a book with a start and end, it is very much a work in progress. For the moment, due to time constraints, I will be posting about the process and my future. I may at some stage, probably over the summer, speak in detail about how I got to where I am. In the meantime, here's a rough break down of my assets and liabilities; http://www.askaboutmoney.com/threads/mortgage-arrears-and-large-debts.182268/#post-1365968

Brendan Burgess said:
He seems to be a mature student and has a list of things which keep him busy while he is bankrupt. But bankruptcy should not mean unemployment. He is obviously very talented. Why is he not working?

He talks about homelessness. Bankrupts don't need to be homeless.

Brendan
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That is correct, I am a full time mature student, just finishing the first year of a 4 year degree course. The course is very demanding and I'm lucky to be spending my time with some of the brightest young students in the country, the CAO points this year were almost 580 points minimum. As somebody who left school at my junior cert, I can assure you that I have to spend a considerable effort keeping up to speed. However, graduating at 35 will leave me with nearly 4 decades to make up for lost time.

The list you mention are goals I hope to achieve over the next few years, I don't believe in sitting on my hands and feeling sorry for myself.

I agree, bankruptcy does not mean unemployment, however, I must give as much attention to my education as I possibly can, it is a fantastic opportunity. I am very lucky to have a 6 month old son, our first child was born on the day I started college. With all this in mind, the hours I can devote to working during term are minimum. Nevertheless, I do have a part time job but unfortunately my earnings are still not enough to meet the ISI's reasonable living standards and pay my mortgage.

I have tried everything to come to an arrangement with my lender, continuous engagement since before we went into arrears as I knew we has issues coming down the pipeline. I won't recount all we have done in this post but its safe to say we have tried almsot everything but nothing was satisfactory to my lender. My lender told me that they intend to seek possession. In February they handed it to their solicitors who in turn sent us a letter threatening court action in 7 days. That is where it stands at the moment. If the bank proceeds I can offer no defense and they will surely get a possession order, rendering my family homeless.
The only way I could avoid homelessness at that point would be to leave college and try to find a job.
 
Brendan Burgess said:
From reading your threads on askboutmoney, I can sort of figure out your path. But I think your blog should be standalone.

You should set out the figures and why the PIA was not suitable.

Also the reaction of Bank of Ireland would be very interesting.

Are you still paying BoI or have you stopped?


Brendan
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I agree, there is housekeeping to do to keep the story coherent.

As mentioned above, we have tried many things with BOI, none of which lead to a long term solution. I believe BOI could have reacted differently to some of the proposals but at the end of the day, I broke my contractual agreement so they hold most of the cards.
We currently pay what we can afford off the mortgage but BOI have said this is not enough.
 
pat2 said:
My bankruptcy forms are lodged with the Examiner's Office. This is an office attached to the courts service who take care of the administration before I go to court.
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[broken link removed]

Step 1.

Transfer € 650 to the Official Assignee in the Bankruptcy Division of the ISI, either electronically or using an interbank transfer. You should email the Bankruptcy Division at bankruptcy@isi.gov.ie to confirm your lodgement and attach a scanned copy bank lodgement confirming your payment. We will then forward a receipt to you by email. You must produce this email receipt when issuing the petition at the Office of the Examiner of the High Court. The relevant account details are set out at


Step 4

File the stamped documents and Statement of Affairs in the Examiner’s Office. You must bring the receipt for the € 650 payment to the Official Assignee with you. You will be provided with a Court date once the Examiner’s Office is satisfied that all of your papers are in order for submission to the Court.
 
Bronte said:
[broken link removed]

Step 1.

Transfer € 650 to the Official Assignee in the Bankruptcy Division of the ISI, either electronically or using an interbank transfer. You should email the Bankruptcy Division at bankruptcy@isi.gov.ie to confirm your lodgement and attach a scanned copy bank lodgement confirming your payment. We will then forward a receipt to you by email. You must produce this email receipt when issuing the petition at the Office of the Examiner of the High Court. The relevant account details are set out at


Step 4

File the stamped documents and Statement of Affairs in the Examiner’s Office. You must bring the receipt for the € 650 payment to the Official Assignee with you. You will be provided with a Court date once the Examiner’s Office is satisfied that all of your papers are in order for submission to the Court.
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Hi Bronte,

Just to note, the Official Assignee's fee is now €200 and there is no stamp duty on the forms anymore.
 
pat2 said:
Just to note, the Official Assignee's fee is now €200 and there is no stamp duty on the forms anymore.
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I realise they've changed a lot of things Pat, but why on earth don't the ISI update their website, even links on one of those documents I posted are missing and they've all over the shop with too many different documents on bankruptcy. One up-to-date document is what is needed and delettion of old documents. It's not very helpful for people stressed with debt having to go through a minefield to get the correct information.

Pity really because their website was originally quite novel and simple. Like many state bodies it's just going to grow into a big website that will be a labyrinth.

And it's really unfair that court dates are treated differently if a professional is sending in the paperwork. It should be first come first served. Sounds like discrimination to me to those that are so broke they need all the help they can get. No voice for them of course. No money in it, that's why.
 
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I have my court date at last. Next Monday 20th of April. Really hope I've covered all bases as I'll be representing myself in there. I have dropped in on previous sittings and it seems straight forward once everything is in order.
More details on my blog here: [broken link removed]
 
You'll be fine, you're well prepared. If you read the Irish Times article Burgess/Deeter & Coffey wrote you'll see the courts are kind to people who represent themselves.

I have a friend who is going to go bankrupt (half a million) will be paying New Beginning 4K.
 
Best of luck Pat, Its certainly a great help to read about your own experiences so far, thanks for sharing them, nearly there myself, about to lodge all my forms with the examiners office.
 
pat2 said:
Just yesterday I received a letter from my lenders solicitor that they intend to issue legal proceedings. I speak more about it in this post from last night. [broken link removed]
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Have you not received multiple advice on Askaboutmoney to go bankrupt. Get rid of your home and your huge negative equity? Get a fresh start.

Why on earth are you subjecting yourself to all this? You should have voluntarily surrendered years ago.

Brendan
 
Brendan Burgess said:
Have you not received multiple advice on Askaboutmoney to go bankrupt. Get rid of your home and your huge negative equity? Get a fresh start.

Why on earth are you subjecting yourself to all this? You should have voluntarily surrendered years ago.

Brendan
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My bankruptcy hearing is next Monday 20th of April.

I don't agree that I should have surrendered my home "years ago". There are a number of reasons for this.
  1. I have no problem with the NE, the house was bought as a home and I had every intention of paying the full amount of the loan. I believe I will be back in a position to meet full repayments in a couple of years at most.
  2. The full mortgage amount is less than what it would cost to rent a similar house.
  3. The bank would offer no plan on residual debt when we considered a voluntary sale.
  4. Negoitations have been ongoing until December 2014 to reach a resolution, this would not have happened had we surrendered the house.
  5. We cannot afford alternative accommodation at the moment and have a housing need which the State is not in a position to address.
  6. I have offered the bank solutions that would mean a much greater return than repossesion.
  7. As someone entering bankruptcy, it is unlikely I will be credit worthy for many years to come. A fresh start for me would be leaving bankruptcy in a position to meet my mortgage payments and all my unsecured debt gone.
There are many more reasons I could go into. I see no advantage to surrendering my home.
 
michaelg said:
Best of luck Pat, Its certainly a great help to read about your own experiences so far, thanks for sharing them, nearly there myself, about to lodge all my forms with the examiners office.
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Thanks Michael and best of luck too. Give me a shout if there's anything at all I can do to help.

There were a few mistakes with my forms initially but they have now been corrected. I will post an updated version of my forms on my blog over the weekend to offer some guidance. The ISI guide is useful but there is a considerable amount of editing to do the forms, mine might offer some idea of what the finished article will look look.
 
Bronte said:
You'll be fine, you're well prepared. If you read the Irish Times article Burgess/Deeter & Coffey wrote you'll see the courts are kind to people who represent themselves.

I have a friend who is going to go bankrupt (half a million) will be paying New Beginning 4K.
Click to expand...

Thanks, I'm as prepared as I'll ever be!

What do New Beginnings offer for the fee?
 
Hi pat2

Could you explain what you mean by the following:

pat2 said:
A fresh start for me would be leaving bankruptcy in a position to meet my mortgage payments and all my unsecured debt gone.
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Surely you won't have any mortgage payments (or house for that matter) after the bankruptcy process has been completed?
 
Thanks a million pat,
Do you know what happens to your bank account on the day your adjudicated ? Are they closed or just frozen for a period of time ?
 
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