Case study HSE pay for a temporary promotions being reverted to another temporary promotion

[Mikefromcork]

Hi All

A friend of mine has a very interesting scenario. Last year she was given a temporary promotion to cover someone long-term absent. She only started the cover when a mount later a mat leave at a higher level came up which she got. She will now be reverting after the Mat leave to the temporary promotion again as the person is still out sick, she has been led to expect. Her query is all around what pay she will receive. Each promotion was to a higher grade, i.e. from grade 3, grade 4 to grade 5. When she goes back should she go back to the same point on the grade 4 scale plus one to allow for her year of service, even though she never did it or should they take her grade 5 into account when looking at her grade 4 salary and match that. She will be down money which seems a little unfair. She also believes within the next year another grade 5 post will come up because the area seems to be very chaotic with lots of turnover. However, she will then be back on the first point of the scale again. Her manager doesn’t know and has queried what her pay will be but hasn’t gotten an answer from HR. Is there any HSE document that outlines it. I was looking at HSE T&Cs but we couldn’t find an answer.

Thanks for the help.

 

[mathepac]

Union rep.

 

[Mikefromcork]

Union rep.

I asked her. She never joined the union.

 

[Babby]

There is a HSE secondment policy - secondments are common in the HSE - it seems like she would remain grade 3, with point increasing based on time since starting.

https://www.hse.ie/eng/staff/resources/hrppg/secondment-policy.pdf

 

[ClubMan]

I never like suggesting it as it shouldn't be necessary, but it can yield results.... ask a local elected representative to chase it up?

Then again, HR really should be able to advise/clarify.

 

[mathepac]

Then again, HR really should be able to advise/clarify.

In the HSE? That'd be very unusual for them. Obfuscate, refer elsewhere is thetypical response.

 

[Salvadore]

Temporary upgrades are simply that - temporary.

The substantive position is grade 3. It should be assumed that progression in the grade 3 pay-scale is unaffected by temporary assignments to higher grades. In other words, pay should be the equivalent of what it would have been if the temporary higher-grade assignments had never occurred.

 

[Mikefromcork]

I never like suggesting it as it shouldn't be necessary, but it can yield results.... ask a local elected representative to chase it up?

Then again, HR really should be able to advise/clarify.

I don’t think HR are that helpful. The manager already asked and he was told it was being checked out, fobbed off she believes.

 

[Mikefromcork]

In the HSE? That'd be very unusual for them. Obfuscate, refer elsewhere is thetypical response.

That definitely seems the case and point

 

[Mikefromcork]

Temporary upgrades are simply that - temporary.

The substantive position is grade 3. It should be assumed that progression in the grade 3 pay-scale is unaffected by temporary assignments to higher grades. In other words, pay should be the equivalent of what it would have been if the temporary higher-grade assignments had never occurred.

and the nuance is that she has had 2 temporary posts at the one time. So should she be allowed for the increment she would have earned on the first temporary post and move to the next point on that scale for the cover of the long term absent colleague

 

[Mikefromcork]

Temporary upgrades are simply that - temporary.

The substantive position is grade 3. It should be assumed that progression in the grade 3 pay-scale is unaffected by temporary assignments to higher grades. In other words, pay should be the equivalent of what it would have been if the temporary higher-grade assignments had never occurred.

This makes sense but if she is put onto the grade 5 post in 6 months time again will she have to go on the first point of that scale again or will she go to the second point, there is no mention of incremental credit for admin staff. The area seems chaotic with little people.

 

[becky]

Temporary upgrades are simply that - temporary.

The substantive position is grade 3. It should be assumed that progression in the grade 3 pay-scale is unaffected by temporary assignments to higher grades. In other words, pay should be the equivalent of what it would have been if the temporary higher-grade assignments had never occurred.

I think the question is what she gets if she gets grade v or iv again.

She should be reverted to the grade 3 scale as if she never left it, no question or confusion here.

I'm not aware of any circular covering this, but I'm not up to date with them. In the past you simply got 1st point of the higher pay or substantive salary plus an allowance, whichever was greater. It was simply then.

Starting pay in promotion is now applied but it wasn't designed for switching up and down grades

I'd ask HR first ( not line manager). See what they say and let us know.

 

[becky]

I don’t think HR are that helpful. The manager already asked and he was told it was being checked out, fobbed off she believes.

HR is pretty chaotic too, I realise most people including HSE staff think we are browsing the net and having a grand old time. It could take me several weeks to look into this as I had more urgent tasks. I usually had to do it late at night when I could concentrate without interruptions. As I said, the circulars/memos did not cover such scenarios.

Then I would have to make a recommendation as I don't have the power to decide on someones pay if it not covered by circular.

 

[Salvadore]

This makes sense but if she is put onto the grade 5 post in 6 months time again will she have to go on the first point of that scale again or will she go to the second point, there is no mention of incremental credit for admin staff. The area seems chaotic with little people.

As @becky has alluded to, not every scenario is provided for in existing circulars and it’s unrealistic therefore to expect any HR section to have a ready-made answer. They simply don’t know.

What it then requires is the establishment of a policy position to deal with any such scenario but given that any such policy would have wider implications way beyond those of your friend’s example, the reluctance to deal with it quickly is perhaps understandable. However, they’ll have to grasp the issue at some point.

The point is, it doesn’t seem like there’s any explicit provision on which your friend can easily rely. It may ultimately require a formal claim from your friend or someone else in this scenario to establish an outcome that would then become a precedent.