House survey results in a sellers' market?

[Bronte]

I like your optimism Haven't fully decided that yet. My proposed approach is to get the quotes first and see where we stand. Then negotiation I guess. If they say flat "No" to any negotiation then it really depends on the quotes. If its in region of 5K, I'm not bothered. At around 10K I'm getting bothered, 15K I'm back to renting I think.
Being an optimist, however, even if the repairs came in at 15K and the seller took a bath on that, they are still getting 15K over the asking price. Ive been going round and round in my head with scenarios/what ifs/what have yous, so Im trying to just be rational and do it in stages. Quotes are first step.

First thing is not to panic. I want you to be very calm and rational. You are too hung up on the asking price, it's irrelevant. The fact you paid 30K more would signify that it was a bidding war. It is a seller's market. You don't want to lose the house. You have the legals ready to go, the survey done and finance in place. This is a big purchase. You shouldn't lose it for 15K.

So please think about all of those things before you go on any high horse.

You are not screwed if you end up paying for this on top of the asking in a situation where it is a buyer's market/the sellor has another buyer. But you do have the sellor in the sense we're at contract stage with a good buyer who is ready to go. So sure, try and get all or some of the 15 K off the asking price (there is no problem changing the contracts, happens all the time, solicitor will just modify the figure with a pen).

Re the roof. All roofs need replacing eventually. You get a brand new roof that will last you a very long time. It might not need to be done immediately. Ask the surveyer how long does he think it will last.

 

[Leo]

These should have been obvious from the BER rating, and should have been questioned in advance of the offer (in my view). If the house had a C2 rating and did not make sense, then it would be reasonable to ask before going sale agreed.

The BER won't take into account when the boiler was last serviced, and it's very likely the assessor will make no allowance for a single cracked glazing unit.

 

[Leo]

Agree with others on the asking price, completely irrelevant. Some agents will deliberately set them low to try generate a bidding war where bidders might go above their previous limit in order to 'win'.

It's most likely the vendor was unaware of this issue, unless there was obvious water damage which they covered up. Most home owners spend very little time inspecting their roofs.

Issues like this happen regularly enough. Figure out the cost, then talk to the EA and negotiate a discount. They will know it's very likely any other potential purchaser will also discover the issue, unless they're a cash buyer who's foolish enough to skip the survey. I know of a recent case with much more significant compliance issues where the vendor withdrew from the sale after baulking at the proposed price drop only for them to come back to the bidder later and doing the deal when other purchasers looked for similar reductions or walked away.

 

[JamesN]

You are paying 15k over the 'asking' price, or you're paying the market price?

 

[Boyd]

You are paying 15k over the 'asking' price, or you're paying the market price?

Current offer is E30K over *asking* price. Current offer is probably what the place will cost in June 2017, based on estimates in the Irish Times property section last weekend.

 

[gnf_ireland]

The BER won't take into account when the boiler was last serviced, and it's very likely the assessor will make no allowance for a single cracked glazing unit.

The servicing of a boiler is not an issue. It should be done every year and I would expect this to be part and parcel of owning a house.

The BER Cert should comment on the age and efficiency of the boiler. I know mine did both when we bought our house and also when my wife sold her old one recently. The efficiency of the heating has a direct impact on the BER rating (or at least should!)

I was not commenting in the single cracked glazing unit, but more the comment on single glazing. Again single glazing is factored into any BER calculation.

Ignoring the details, the point I am trying to make is I would expect those things to be checked out during viewings where a house is in 'turn-key' condition. In a doer-upper not so much, for obvious reasons. Therefore the price offered should reflect the state of them. The roof is a different matter, but the OP needs to be careful on how far they wish to push it !

 

[Boyd]

Dont forget the OP and the "roof guy" are a different person! I kinda hijacked the thread in fairness, so apologies!

First roofer was in, he reckons its in good enough nick. He hasn't given a quote yet but has said no rafters need to be replaced which is a huge plus. So replacing slates and battens and adding felt (as there is currently some sort of lime mix under current slates). He recommended using Tegral slates rather than natural ones. Have a couple more roofers coming in next week for balanced opinions. By my estimation, his quote will be under 10K, if not closer to 7K.

 

[gnf_ireland]

Current offer is E30K over *asking* price. Current offer is probably what the place will cost in June 2017, based on estimates in the Irish Times property section last weekend.

Market price is what a property will go for today on the open market - i.e. what people are willing to pay for it. You are willing to pay x for it, this is market price.

Where I would be concerned is if the property was on the market for 200k and the highest bid other than you was 210k, and you offer 250k. Clearly this would show an anomaly in your offer ! however, if the next closest offer was 245k, I would say 250k is clearly market price

 

[Boyd]

Well doesnt that surely mean that Im setting the market price then (rather than saying I'm paying the market price), since my offer was accepted? Technically, there isnt really a market price until the house is sold?

Our offer that was accepted was 5K over the closest other offer. There were two bidders at the end, the 3rd serious bidder dropped out 10K below that again.

 

[Leo]

The servicing of a boiler is not an issue. It should be done every year and I would expect this to be part and parcel of owning a house.

Absolutely, but the only boiler issue raised to date was servicing.

 

[gnf_ireland]

Well doesnt that surely mean that Im setting the market price then (rather than saying I'm paying the market price), since my offer was accepted? Technically, there isnt really a market price until the house is sold?

Our offer that was accepted was 5K over the closest other offer. There were two bidders at the end, the 3rd serious bidder dropped out 10K below that again.

Absolutely - you set the market price if you are the highest bidder. If you were not bidding, the price would be at least 5k less. This would be the market price - the highest someone is willing to pay for the asset on the open market

Whether the buying accepts this or not is another matter - but it is the market value at that point in time.

Back when I purchased in 2011, it was a buyers market. In a lot of cases, buyers were bidding against themselves, trying to reach the minimum point the seller would sell for. In many cases back then, we were the highest bidder but the seller would not accept the bid. They simply did not want to sell at the market price - they wanted to sell above it. You had to be willing to walk away in a lot of those cases, as the sellers opinion on the value of the properly was completely unrealistic.
One house in particular the seller would not budge below a figure, about 10k above our offer. We walked from it, and a few months later the next door neighbour sold for 70k below our offer. We call that one our lucky escape

 

[Boyd]

Just looping back around on this. We offered 50/50 split of the roof cost, seller gave some concession but much less than our offer. We are still mulling this over, but are likely to go back to negotiate further.

However, a much bigger issue has now arisen, which is insurance. We wanted to get a head start on the insurance, and rang a number of companies and brokers. They all had forms for 100+ year old house with questions like roof repair, electrical re-wiring, plumbing works etc. Not one of them would provide insurance, due to fact roof wasn't replaced, and we couldn't provide any information on whether plumbing had been upgraded (we have asked seller for same).

The only place that we were offered any hope was by our bank who said maybe they would be able to get third party insurance for us while the work was being done, and then they would upgrade it. I'm not happy at all about this - why would we take on the risk that anything goes wrong during the repairs, considering a massive insurance company wont do so?! I'm really thinking this is beginning to turn into a nightmare and am considering walking away. Any thoughts? How does anyone insure these pre-1900 homes?

 

[mathepac]

If you're asking should you walk away, then do. The insurance issue has to be the deal breaker, no insurance, no peace of mind.

 

[QED]

I'm really thinking this is beginning to turn into a nightmare and am considering walking away.

Unless you've totally fallen for this house, I think you should walk away (or run!!).

Some people enjoy living in older buildings with their history and charm and character, but there will be almost constant maintenance and upgrade required, and small issues have a way of growing legs.

It certainly wouldn't be for me, but l realise that some people enjoy this much more that a dull newer build.