Actually old chap in either case it is foul play, punishable under the laws of the game. A bit like saying "Oh sorry, I meant to kick him in the ribs but kicked him in the head because my aim or timing was bad."
If Hartley had connected with O'Brien's back and not his head it wouldn't have been a red card.
I've named two international players with appalling disciplinary records recognised hit men, who happen to be English, but fantasize away that I'm motivated by anti-English sentiment. Your choice of a Jihadist beheading for comparison's sake is in extremely poor taste. You'd wonder what former or current imperialist / colonists' actions would prompt Jihadists to want to behead people.
Ah,so ISIS behead fellow Muslims because of Britain's past colonial actions ? Bit of a stretch that one old sport.
I don't understand.
Hartley's ban was reduced by a week because he admitted the offence.Do try to keep up.
With the likes of Hartley & other ill-disciplined English Hit-men on the field guess what'll be cracking? Not disciplinary whips for sure, but Irish skulls.
I admire your innocence in thinking Ireland or indeed any other rugby team don't possess any dirty players.Sweet really.Especially when viewed through green-tinted spectacles.
Hartley's nose is already very snotty and his violent history should have him ruled him out, but we'll see. Traditionally the Lions tour was seen as a reward for the best players in the four nations. I wonder what the current criteria are.
Traditionally the squad for a Lions tours has been picked to provide the best opportunity to beat Southern Hemisphere opposition.'Twas ever thus.I don't think anyone including me is arguing that Hartley is a saint but the reality is rugby is a contact sport where violence is legally nuanced.
Goodbye & Good Riddance Dylan Hartley
- Thread starter mathepac
- Start date
Paul O'Connell was sent off for a strike to the face of Jonathan Thomas in similar circumstances when Munster were playing Ospreys.
Donnacha Ryan was cited for eye gouging.
Cian Healy has been suspended for punching, as well as other offenses.
Hartley is a scumbag and the England team and shirt are diminished as long as he is on the team but we aren't exactly perfect either.
Agreed.
Every team has its scumbags.Ireland included.
But Hartley's misdemeanours will be quickly forgotten if he leads the Lions to victory.
Personally I hope its Rory Best.
This [edit: mention of Paul O'Connell, Donnacha Ryan, Cian Healy] is the same silly "whataboutery" that popped up in the Alan Quinlan comment earlier. If you want to talk about other players' disciplinary records then can I suggest you start a thread about that topic. I wanted to highlight Hartley's cowardly strike to the back of Sean O'Brien's head, and secondarily his colleague and fellow bad guy Courtney Lawes' shocking disciplinary records.
There is no need to compare them with any other disciplinary records at club or international level, they make for appalling reading in their own right. If World Rugby want to make professional rugby football safer for players and more attractive for supporters, then the thugs have no place in it. Unless of course they want to go down the route of F1 a couple or three decades ago and sacrifice the lives and well-being of young men in order for their cars to go faster for longer to make more money. I think world rugby needs to issue criteria to the national unions insisting that players who are persistently guilty of dangerous, violent play are not considered for selection.
I understand why England and New Zealand employ the tactics they do against teams like Ireland. With rugby football coming in a poor 4th to the three leading sports, soccer, hurling and Gaelic football here, they know we don't have the strength in depth in our squad such as they enjoy. Thus it is unlikely we can replace injured players with equally talented ones. They cynically play the numbers game, planning to win by attrition if they can't compete in the talent / teamwork stakes. It's now all about money and winning, winning and money. As in F1 and American football in the past, dead and maimed players and drivers are just the cost of being on top of the ratings in the entertainment business. Prove me wrong, rugby football, ban Hartley and his like for life.
There is no need to compare them with any other disciplinary records at club or international level, they make for appalling reading in their own right. If World Rugby want to make professional rugby football safer for players and more attractive for supporters, then the thugs have no place in it. Unless of course they want to go down the route of F1 a couple or three decades ago and sacrifice the lives and well-being of young men in order for their cars to go faster for longer to make more money. I think world rugby needs to issue criteria to the national unions insisting that players who are persistently guilty of dangerous, violent play are not considered for selection.
I understand why England and New Zealand employ the tactics they do against teams like Ireland. With rugby football coming in a poor 4th to the three leading sports, soccer, hurling and Gaelic football here, they know we don't have the strength in depth in our squad such as they enjoy. Thus it is unlikely we can replace injured players with equally talented ones. They cynically play the numbers game, planning to win by attrition if they can't compete in the talent / teamwork stakes. It's now all about money and winning, winning and money. As in F1 and American football in the past, dead and maimed players and drivers are just the cost of being on top of the ratings in the entertainment business. Prove me wrong, rugby football, ban Hartley and his like for life.
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So red-carded Irish players is " whataboutery " but the plucky Irish lads on the receiving end of aggression are being targeted because rugby is this country's 4th sport ? You're moving into the realms of fantasy now.
I don't recall Italian players whining about the bully boys.They give as good as they get.
I don't recall Italian players whining about the bully boys.They give as good as they get.
Hartley is in a class of his own as a scumbag. My point is that nobody is perfect but I wasn't saying that other players, Irish or English, are anywhere near as bad. Northampton do seen to have a broader problem with discipline.
I'm now convinced you're being deliberately obtuse. I have said repeatedly that I started this thread about one English player, El Supremo of dangerous, illegal and violent play, Dylan Hartley, and I gave an honourable mention to the Doctor of Cynical Conduct, sneaky blows and late hits, Courtney Lawes. I didn't mention any Irish player other than as the target for Hartley's cowardly violence and certainly never discussed any Italians. I did give NZ a bit of a back-hander rather than a shoulder charge to the head but that was to illustrate the kind of play I abhor. As for your whining remark, I'm not a player, either Italian or Irish, but I am heartened to see you taken on board my previous bully boys / hit-men remarks about certain English players. That's progress, the next step is to get them banned.
Understandably.
The RFU,rather than a barstool TMO,deemed Hartley's tackle reckless rather than malicious.
They deal in facts not hysterics.
Yes, god forbid that a man can reform his behavior and change, no he should be judged on what he did as a teenager for the rest of his life.
I'm sure the victims and their families of his enforcing feel the same . . .
There's another odd wrinkle, why should Hartley's or any other thug's home union get to adjudicate on punishments? Why not a panel of disinterested senior officials from neutral countries who could call medical evidence as to the seriousness of any injuries sustained by the target of the violence? Starting at an automatic one year suspension and working up, with fines and victim compensation payable by the perpetrator and his club / country would certainly make selecting serial psychos like Hartley a risky proposition. Fines and suspensions to be doubled for each succeeding offence.
Congratulation to Connacht after their narrow, last second win tonight. Oh and congratulations to Sean O'Brien and Leinster who were playing the most inappropriately named rugby club on the planet the Northampton Saints. Sorry for the visiting fans who spent buck loads of money to travel and face an absolute trouncing 60-13. They were missing an England international whose name escapes me now but who got a 6-week ban for "violent conduct" by striking an opponent with his "forearm" to the back of the head. Amazing stuff. Questions, difficult ones, must now be asked and answered by Northampton and England management.
I don't know how they feel.
He did serve a year for his crimes though so the State considers the debt paid.
In much the same way that Hartley's slate will be wiped clean after his six week ban and he'll be free to carry on earning a living rather than this guff about a lifetime ban from some bitter barstooler.
Rugby is full of reformed recidivists.
In evidence I submit former police officer and now RFU citing officer Wade Dooley.
In much the same way anyone who serves their sentence should have a chance to build a future after reforming their behavior.
I think the key is the reforming though. There is no evidence that Hartley is reforming his behaviour, unless becoming more sneaky and underhanded with his violent conduct counts as reforming. I don't think being a serving or former police officer is any kind of recommendation. Hillsborough, Birmingham 6, Guilford 4, minister toppled by lying coppers, racism rife, sexism commonplace, child abuse & abusers in blue uniforms, and so on, "a policeman's lot is not a happy one" now that we've found out. Oh, but any barrel is bound to have one bad one - how about orchards' full, all dressed in blue?
You need to take a few deep breaths and relax, it is Christmas after all.
You need to take a few deep breaths and relax, it is Christmas after all.
Sounds to me like someone has put too much brandy in his Christmas pudding ....
PyritePete
Registered User
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- 380
Hartley is a thug, ditto Wade Dooley and not forgetting Delon "Cheap-shot" Armitage. Sorry for coming late to this ruck, maybe I should start swinging for someone. Oh no, that should be left to the "professional" himself.
Mathepacs point is well made, Hartley hasn't reformed and the defense of Hartley is pure comedy gold. Surely a pilot show on Dave is forthcoming. Might run for several episodes.
As for Hartley leading the Lions to victory, please pray its at another sport or leisure activity. I doubt it would be at Chess anyway.
Mathepacs point is well made, Hartley hasn't reformed and the defense of Hartley is pure comedy gold. Surely a pilot show on Dave is forthcoming. Might run for several episodes.
As for Hartley leading the Lions to victory, please pray its at another sport or leisure activity. I doubt it would be at Chess anyway.
Any thoughts on CJ Stander's sending off against S.Africa this year.Or Jamie Heaslip for kicking Richie McGraw.Or Alan Quinlan's 12 week ban which saw him miss the Lions tour of S.Africa.Or Keith Earls sent off against Glasgow this season ?
And I'd almost forgotten Neil Best's 18 WEEK ban for trying to poke out the eyeball of poor James Haskell.And Shane Jennings was another Irishman who loved a bit of eye-gouging,which resulted in a 12 week ban.
I know this is primarily an Irish forum but all this tripe about dirty England players is laughably myopic.
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Thanks PyritePete, debater rather than a troll! It's good to hear from a commentator who plays the ball and not the man! The ad hominems about me being intoxicated, bitter, etc were wearing thin.
Happy Christmas all and stick with the accepted rules for civilised debate.
p.s and thanks for staying on-topic i.e. Dirty Dylan Hartley, an English thug and captain.
Happy Christmas all and stick with the accepted rules for civilised debate.
p.s and thanks for staying on-topic i.e. Dirty Dylan Hartley, an English thug and captain.