Forming a Lobbying group for Bankruptcy term reduction

MikeL2007

Registered User
Messages
41
All,

Further to some discussions in other forums, I intend to set up a lobbying group to reduce the term of both bankruptcy and Income Payment Orders.

I was one of many who made a submission to the recent Oireachtais committee.

As always, strength is found in numbers so I would like to encourage all those that would like to join this group to send me a Private Message.

Once formed I intend to speak to various colleagues on here to understand who and how we should lobby.

Kind regards
Mike
 
All,

After 4 unsuccessful attempts to contact my local Labour TD Aodhan O'Riordain on what progress has been made since Dail reconvened I finally got a pathetic reply to say Willie Penrose submits the bill each week but it is a "complete lottery" and they cannot advise of any date when it might be heard before telling me I'd be better off contacting Penrose directly.
I have done so but no reply yet.
MikeL2007,
Can you please contact Willie and see where we are?
I feel you will have better success being a constituent.

Thanks

Anyone else got any feedback recently?

PS
I hope Aodhan and his canvassers have a good pair of runners when they call canvassing for a vote.
 
I received a communication from David Hall on the issue.
I asked if there was any news on the bill being passed to which he stated:
'Should be next month when courts committee sit'

Does anyone know of the significance of the Courts Committee, when it will actually sit, and if it will be able to bypass the legislation lottery system?
 
All,

After 4 unsuccessful attempts to contact my local Labour TD Aodhan O'Riordain on what progress has been made since Dail reconvened I finally got a pathetic reply to say Willie Penrose submits the bill each week but it is a "complete lottery" and they cannot advise of any date when it might be heard before telling me I'd be better off contacting Penrose directly.
I have done so but no reply yet.
MikeL2007,
Can you please contact Willie and see where we are?
I feel you will have better success being a constituent.

Thanks

Anyone else got any feedback recently?

PS
I hope Aodhan and his canvassers have a good pair of runners when they call canvassing for a vote.

Hi SilvioDante,

I have continued to lobby Willie Penrose and our local Labour TD Pat Rabbitte. They have both said that the next best step is to lobby the minister for justice directly. We have done so by sending her our Oireachtais submission asking with a cover letter. The Bill is now effectively on her desk and required her sponsorship.

Suggest you and anyone else interested in seeing this through do the same.

Regards
Mike
 
Hi SilvioDante,

I have continued to lobby Willie Penrose and our local Labour TD Pat Rabbitte. They have both said that the next best step is to lobby the minister for justice directly. We have done so by sending her our Oireachtais submission asking with a cover letter. The Bill is now effectively on her desk and required her sponsorship.

Suggest you and anyone else interested in seeing this through do the same.

Regards
Mike

Thanks MikeL

I will email the Minister with same.

Do you get any sense off Willie that he is either weary of the issue of that it has run into a cul de sac?
I can assure you I'm weary of emailing Aodhan and getting nothing back.
Even Willie, who had been really sound a few months ago is failing to reply.
Never a good sign
 
It seems Penrose is taking a stand on the bankruptcy issue and hasn't indicated whether he'll even run again. http://www.independent.ie/irish-new...-for-penroses-election-decision-34123709.html

Joan Burton turned up at an event I was at recently and I expressed my disappointment that it was not mentioned in the Autumn/Winter legislation schedule. She said that she is intent on seeing it introduced in this current term and an overwhelming amount of submissions supported the reduction. However, she claimed there is considerable resistance to the proposal within FG.
 
...However, she claimed there is considerable resistance to the proposal within FG.

Indeed, Averil Power was door-stepping my area at the weekend and said that was her understanding of the issue; labour were for it and FG against it.
Honestly I don't get it (FG's opposition to it) if they are as pro entrepreneurship as they state. I will never start my own business again under the current set-up, it's still draconian.
 
Absolutely agree with you Stuboy. A pro-enterprise party should be in favour of a more liberal bankruptcy regime to bring us in line with the position in the UK and US.

There still seems to be a desire to "punish" bankrupts that I have never understood.
 
Regardless of the term reduction, I've a letter from the Courts Services stating that they haven't got the resources for assessing bankruptcy applications and so my paperwork is sitting on file and won't be examined in the near future.
I'd have 8 months completed if I went across the water.
 
Regrettably this has become a highly political issue.
FG are furious with Labour for forcing them to postpone the election and issues like this which were important to Labour will now be used as payback (ie mess Penrose about)
Politics is such a vile area at times.
 
Regrettably this has become a highly political issue.
FG are furious with Labour for forcing them to postpone the election and issues like this which were important to Labour will now be used as payback (ie mess Penrose about)
Politics is such a vile area at times.


I agree, it is awful to be at the mercy of politics. I've a keen eye on political developments and wondering how they will impact on out situation. Labour's most recent disaster in the opinion polls might hopefully mean that their buddies are willing to throw them a few bones. As Penrose seemed like a banker for a seat, lets hope they see try to encourage him to stay and offer some incentives.
 
Regardless of the term reduction, I've a letter from the Courts Services stating that they haven't got the resources for assessing bankruptcy applications and so my paperwork is sitting on file and won't be examined in the near future.
I'd have 8 months completed if I went across the water.

How long have they left you waiting?
That's an awful situation to be in. I was left waiting in March/April but applied as much pressure as I could and got a date in late April.
 
How long have they left you waiting?
That's an awful situation to be in. I was left waiting in March/April but applied as much pressure as I could and got a date in late April.
It's funny, I was only listening to piece on the radio (was the last word, i think) where they were talking about insolvency leg. Bankruptcy was mentioned by way of low numbers applying. No mention of the fact that applications are on hold due to numbers, just spun it as 'not really that many needing the service', bit of a joke really. A dropped ball by Matt Cooper to question the guest on the freeze on applications due to the numbers involved.
 
How long have they left you waiting?
That's an awful situation to be in. I was left waiting in March/April but applied as much pressure as I could and got a date in late April.
It's funny, I was only listening to piece on the radio (was the last word, i think) where they were talking about insolvency leg. Bankruptcy was mentioned by way of low numbers applying. No mention of the fact that applications are on hold due to numbers, just spun it as 'not really that many needing the service', bit of a joke really. A dropped ball by Matt Cooper to question the guest on the freeze on applications due to the numbers involved.
 
Regardless of the term reduction, I've a letter from the Courts Services stating that they haven't got the resources for assessing bankruptcy applications and so my paperwork is sitting on file and won't be examined in the near future.
I'd have 8 months completed if I went across the water.

In contrast, I contacted the local court in the UK and got a date within 7 working days, followed by a telephone interview with the Official Receiver 2 working days after successfully petitioning for bankruptcy. Discharged after 1 year.

A friend of mine successfully petitioned for UK bankruptcy in the past few months and the Official Receiver sorted out a deal with the wife for the positive equity on the PPR within 2 months !!! That's what you call efficient and humane. Conversely, the OA in Ireland will often wait years to sort out the positive equity.

The Irish System is quite simply not fit for purpose. I'm also of the opinion that Labour are in a very weak position due to their consistently weak poll ratings and it's highly unlikely that the term will be reduced before the election.
 
All,

I have received a reply (prohibited from reproducing here) from Justice confirming the Minister can give no indication as to when any changes or indeed if any changes will be made to the current bankruptcy laws.
More depressingly still, the letter says their focus at present is on the Personal Insolvency Amendment Act 2015.

This one looks in real trouble.

I only have sympathy for Penrose here, being reneged on and messed about in disgusting fashion so others can score cheap political points.

Anyone in the queue, head the UK route would be my advice.
 
The bankruptcy process in Ireland and in England has the same net result; assets are realised, distributions are made to creditors, and the bankrupt is solvent upon discharge. Aside from that, the two systems are are like chalk and cheese. The bankruptcy term, 3 years in Ireland, 1 year in England gets the headlines. However, as Epicaricacy points out above, a significant difference is that a petition for English bankruptcy is normally made in the nearest County Court. In Ireland, a petition for bankruptcy is made in the High Court in Dublin. What a waste of a superior courts' resources.

Another difference is that The Insolvency Service (of England and Wales) is an agency the UK's Department for Business, Innovation & Skills. Meanwhile, the Insolvency Service of Ireland reports to the Minister for Justice and Equality. This in itself demonstrates the differing attitudes towards "the bankrupt".

A limited liability company can be liquidated, and a replacement company bought of the shelf the next day. If we can be this efficient with corporate insolvency why not with personal insolvency? Where the personal distress is even greater? And on occasion has led to suicide.

Silvio Dante is right. Get over to England or Wales. For your own health and wellbeing, and clarity for your creditors. Nothing is going to change in Ireland until after the election.
 
It's so sad that we are effectively exporting yet another problem to our neighbouring island. And in this case it's totally unnecessary - nobody benefits from the current dysfunctional system.

My heart goes out to anybody that has to leave behind their support structures and "take the boat" simply to put what must be a very difficult chapter in their lives behind them so they can finally move on. I often wonder how much stress and hardship are we inflicting on people as a result of our failure to implement such obvious reforms? It's odd considering how generous we can be as a nation in so many other respects.
 
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