Formation of new government

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so-crates said:
Mícheál Martin needs to cop on to himself. Prioritising Irish Water and making that a deal breaker? I mean, of all the problems you could pick - he picks the stupidest one. Redline issues should be important. Spending even more money on re-imagining Irish Water into some palatable alternative he can fob off the masses with is not one of them. Let's face it. He hasn't proposed anything constructive.
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Completely agree. Now is a time for statesmen/women and not political party hacks.

As for the elected "protesters", they have had their protest, now let us hear their governmental program proposals and see whether they stack up.
 
Hugely depressing week.:(:mad: What was Coveney thinking...... if IW had to come into negotiations with FF it should have been in a smoky room with a well thought out press release to follow. Instead we got chaos.

As for the left, that great expression "You dont know you're born" comes to mind. How far do they think they can push the squeezed middle?? We have a welfare state that lashes out free cash for nothing to those who cant think of enough other ways to bleed us (health, crime being the first two I can think of). Now they want us to pay for their water as well - "general taxation" is just a way of saying "that crowd over there can pay for me" - so spare us the social solidarity ruse (we have generous free allowances), they couldnt care less about the rights and wrongs of funding a decent water service.

Its got to the stage where I now want to lunatics to take over the asylum, its nearly preferable to them eating away like a cancer. Give them their 6 months, pray the damage isnt too bad, then decimate them at the polls and get politicians away from empty populism.

FF - I'm not sure why but I thought you were above this IW populism - makes no sense at any level. Ye introduced it, the EU requires it, it makes sense to pay by use (I know FG ballsed up the metering issue), there are billions of investment required, will we thrown granny off the trolley so??, money doesn't grow on trees but it seems away into the ground.

FG - let's be perfectly clear about this (as they used to say in the Norn Iron narrative), it seems you are the only force sparing this nation from the anarchy so dearly sought by AAA and the other loopers, while you are increasingly showing yourself incapable, be strong and hold the line, your voters will thank you (newsflash, trying to please everyone doesn't work anymore, battlelines are drawn), and BE VERY CLEAR if you punish those who have paid I, and many others, will scribble out the face of every FG candidate on the ballot paper next time and vote for the lunatics to hasten the apocolypse and see is there any politician with steel and substance that emerges to bring back reality.

Now where's that visa application.........
 
+1 Betsy but just one thing I would point out - and I may be wrong in this, but my reading of the FF position is that they do still agree with the idea of IW but simply want to appear to be with the crowd shouting down with water charges. So I suspect that what will happen here is that FF and FG will agree to keep IW but reduce the payment even further (maybe even reduce it down to match the conservation grant for a couple of years) and that will be that. Over time I fully expect rates will go up again and eventually metering will come in. I'm not saying I agree with this and like you I would like FG to take a strong line on this but I think this will be the agreement reached in order to move on to the more important issues.
 
Why anyone here expected more of FF than what we've heard in the past few days is beyond me. Fool me once, shame on you- fool me over and over again....

There will be no Middle if PBP/AAA/SF/Nutters Utd get their way or if they can influence FF in that direction.
I heard Vardakar just before the election saying that 40% of the population have Medical Cards and he was saying that in a proud manner! As if thats a sign of a great country.
McWilliams had an article a few years back saying the number of people on Disability benefits had gone through the roof since the crash. More sweeties being handed out.

And the Middle are expected to keep paying for this lunacy while paying inflated mortgages for inflated house prices, trying to educate their kids with the the threat of Uni fees on the way, car insurance going through the roof thanks in no small part to legal fees from the untouchables in the Law Library/Bar Council, health insurance going up in double digit %'s every year and no politician willing to take on the vested interests in Health.
And they tell us inflation is close to zero %:rolleyes:

Arrrghhh....I'm angry now for the rest of the day:mad:
 
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Leper said:
I was glued to the television last weekend and flicked around from station to station when there was dual coverage. At long last there is a huge protest vote in Ireland. Just look at the first preference votes for the weak "Also Rans" where in many instances accumulated to near quota figures even before you counted the spoiled votes. Also, remember one in three people did not vote.

The one sure thing that most of the politicians were saying in the aftermath of the bloodbath was that they did not want another election. If there is another election the Protest Voters will protest even more now that they have got a feel for what they can achieve.
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The second lowest turn out ever (since 1948 anyway), and significant drop from 2011 suggests the anger and protest vote is subsiding. Confusion and lack of substantive choice is on the increase. Protest voters may start to realise many of the protest candidates would much rather sit in opposition than try to affect real change.
 
Sophrosyne said:
As for the elected "protesters", they have had their protest, now let us hear their governmental program proposals and see whether they stack up.
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:D:D:D:D

Rather like a teetering poorly constructed Jenga tower would be my guess. One that has an incredibly narrow base supporting an ever expanding weight above it. A base that they will likely attack frequently because why change the habits of a century.
 
Royston Brady on Sean O'Rourke Show now talking about Irish Water
"In Ireland 3/4's of people work and 1/4 do nothing. They go around in pyjamas all day, from families with inter-generational unemployment and they have never paid for anything in their lives and don't want to start doing so now either. I remember them from my time in Dublin Central and I used to talk to Bertie about this, about the Poverty Industry. And this is what the Shinners tap into."
He actually sounds surprised that FF got such a big vote so soon after the crash and that Martin is even close to becoming Taoiseach

Royston....Real FF or Provisional FF :p
 
Leo said:
The second lowest turn out ever (since 1948 anyway), and significant drop from 2011
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Yes a 5% drop from 2011 means that 175,000 of those who voted in 2011 didn't turn out for this election. Perhaps these figures are somewhat misleading as the size of the electorate in 2011 was 3.2m as opposed to 3.5mln in 2016.
My uninformed theory on the stats is that the significant increase in electorate size was predominately due to a surge in registration in the 18-25 bracket for the marriage equality vote. This vote caught the interest of the predominately younger people of voting age who had no real interest in the current election.
From personal experience I had 2 offspring in that bracket who were fully committed to marriage equality but totally lethargic about the current election. To them politics is boring and they had no interest in the squabbling and rhetoric of the main parties. We need some leadership that can attract and interest younger voters. Micheal martin at 55 is a "young" leader and to be honest I can't blame our younger population for feeling totally remote from politics which is broadly aimed at middle aged/older elements of the electorate. Where are our younger politicians and what do they have to offer???
 
Michael O'Leary on the election / new government:

Logically, whether it’s in one or two more elections, you’re going to see Sinn Fein and the left get stronger and stronger, which ultimately means Fianna Fail and Fine Gael will in some way get together or coalesce and move to the centre-right; at the moment they hover in the centre-left.”

He said: “You have the radical left, the Shinners, and some of the other lunatics out there, and actually Ireland might be better served by having a right-left debate, so that instead of the left sitting there in opposition but being against everything , they’d have to come up with some credible economic policies, of which they have none at the moment.”




Here here!
 
It is time for one of the bigger parties to step up to the plate and design policies that represent the views of the middle and lower middle classes.
Equally it is time for the same middle and lower classes to support policies that would continue to make employment attractive and encourage more people into work.
The smoked salmon socialists might try and engage their brain as well.

As I see politics in this country is a populist race to the bottom and the almost 50 shades of leftie thinking is continuing to prosper and that will eventually bring us back into a bad place.

The setting up of Irish Water was a costly shambles but it will cost more to shut it down whether it is for 5 years or forever. FF are all over the shop as are the Trade unions on this. Something of a compromise on this might be a 10 year freeze on the charge at say a nett €150 per year.

Currently I cannot see what will be seen as a stable Government being formed. This will effect decisions by multinationals investing here and the financial markets views of the country.

Cannot see a FG led Government supported by FF lasting too long as there are always tough and unpopular decisions to be made by Governments and cannot see FF standing around for that. In a scenario of FF supporting FG they would be constantly looking at how their "shadow" SF was doing in the polls in comparison to themselves and they might very nervous and create an opportunist situation and head for the country.

Currently we have a lot of "unknown knowns and known unknowns" facing us politically and financially at home and abroad.

Time for everyone to look at the bigger picture.
 
I'm looking forward to Thursday's vote for Grizzly for Teashop. Outside the SF Politburo will anybody else support him? Just how toxic is he? We will find out.:cool:
 
Dermot.
Don,t largely disagree with your post.
Only big -issue I have is this.

We have been (led) by non lefties for years and I do not think they have done us proud !, maybe we just got used to them being around and are fearful of these (lefties) bogeymen.
Nothing like a bit of (rightwingish) fear of (leftie loonies) to ensure things largely stay as is ?

Irish Water ,I agree will sort along your thoughts.
Do we need stable or do we need good government , its up to the TD,s.
Stable government strikes as more of the same wafflers..
Don,t worry about SF , I havn,t seen many companies leave N Ire. The cynic in me says (Mercs are lovely). They will go with the flow.
 
Gerry Canning said:
Don,t worry about SF , I havn,t seen many companies leave N Ire. The cynic in me says (Mercs are lovely). They will go with the flow.
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I do not have very many problems with your post either Gerry other than the Shinners and the Unionists are in real terms only implementing/administrating Westminster policies. You could make an argument that a Government here is implementing Troika/EU policy. The Government here has a bit more flexibility down here in what they do than in the north.
Strangely SF do not have much authority on Fiscal portfolios in the north.
 
The SF experience in NI is dangerously irrelevant when contemplating them having any share of power down here. As Dermot says, NI really has very little autonomy, for example tax rates are set by Westminster and judging by our own GE tax rates seem to amount to about 90% of what voters are interested in.

SF would have been just as bad as Syriza if they had been faced with handling our crisis, a responsibility which their NI role will never entail.
 
The point is that, for all the posturing on the purity of {never never never}Sf,s stances , SF have accepted the status quo in N ire , and come Merc time here in ROI will roll over (in the national interest) etc,

Sorry if I sound a tad cynical!
 
Odd think about SF is the lack of courage by them to speak out against the child abuse by the Provos or the slab murphy case.
 
cork said:
Odd think about SF is the lack of courage by them to speak out against the child abuse by the Provos or the slab murphy case.
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They're not exactly famous for speaking out against criminality of any shade. Despite some early signs Mary Lou might change thing with her initial reaction to the slab case, she was quickly put in her place.
 
Ceist Beag said:
So I suspect that what will happen here is that FF and FG will agree to keep IW
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Agreed - the last thing they are going to do is shut it down and accept the sunk costs. Furthermore they are not exactly going to make semi-state employees redundant. The effect of this could very well moving from a position where Ervia pays an annual dividend to the taxpayer each year via profits from Bord Gais to one where the taxpayer may instead be funding IW and therefore negating this dividend. You couldn't make it up.
 
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