EBS Tracker to Fixed + Contract Wording - Advice?

J

JL77

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I got an EBS tracker in 2006 and fixed in 2006 (mistake - hindsight is great).

My tracker contract states that the interest rate was:
Interest Rate Basis: Variable ECB Base + 1.25%

When I fixed the conversion form stated that:
I/We understand that when this fixed rate period has expired the loan will convert to the applicable variable rate then prevailing.

My question is does this in anyway mean the the applicable variable rate then prevailing would be the Variable ECB Base + 1.25% which is stated in my original contract.

Any opinion would be great.
 
What did you understand by it at the time you fixed and signed that form?

"applicable variable rate" could be a tracker or a standard variable rate.

As the loan offer described the rate as "variable ECB base + 1.25%" , you could argue that this is what you assumed it meant.

If the Ombudsman sees it as vague, he will give you the benefit of the doubt. But I think he considers "applicable variable rate" to mean "standard variable rate"

Brendan
 
I thought that I could fix for 3 years and then return to the mortgage I got in the first instance. I thought that the variable rate of +1.25% would apply after the fixed ended and was never told otherwise.

I am seeing lots of people on here getting trackers back because of wordings etc. and am wondering if I have a case?
 
had the exact same issue as you with EBS jl77 appealed to the ombudsman and was rejected

so stuck on variable now gutted
 
Hi Aidan could you give me some details on what enquiry you made to EBS and what reply you got from them? Why did the Ombudsman find against you and for EBS?
 
hi there JL here is a copy of the letter i sent to EBS with regard our grievances sorry if its a bit long winded. hope it helps. as i said before it was rejected by ombudsman. he felt the tracker application form was clear and transparent!!

Further to our phone conversation on Tuesday 11th October I wish to request a final response letter from you regarding our complaint. In your letter dated 7th October you stated your position that our mortgage will convert to a standard variable rate once the fixed rate has expired. It is our contention that the rate should revert back to the original variable ECB rate +1.25 % as stated on the original loan offer.

In your letter dated 7th October 2011 you refer to a tracker rate application form we signed in 2005 which states “once you have chosen to opt out of the tracker mortgage you cannot switch back to this option.” When in 2007 we signed the fixed rate mortgage application form we were not made aware by E.B.S. that we would be opting out of the tracker mortgage at the end of the fixed term. We were not aware that our original interest rate basis as stated on the loan offer document would end after the fixed term had expired. We would not have signed the fixed rate application had this been made clear to us at the time. We understood that our interest rate would revert to the variable ECB +1.25% rate specified on our original loan offer, the variable rate detailed on the fixed rate application form. It is important to note that it does not state on that fixed rate application form we signed that the E.B.S. commitment to give us a tracker would finish at the end of the fixed term (schedule of evidence 1). It is telling that E.B.S. changed the fixed rate application form for later customers to a fixed rate conversion form which does include this condition in conjunction with the signing of a tracker declaration form (schedule of evidence 2).

Your letter notes that the fixed rate application form states that our loan rate will “convert to the applicable variable rate then prevailing” at the end of the fixed term. It is important to note that the fixed rate application form does not specify that the loan will convert to the lenders variable rate.

Our mortgage loan offer document clearly states our interest rate basis to be “Interest rate (variable) 3.25%” and “variable E.C.B. base + 1.25” (schedule of Evidence 3). Nowhere on the fixed rate application form does it state the rate to be applied upon expiry of the fixed rate or that the original loan offer mentioned above would be altered. The final condition contained within the Fixed rate application specifically states “This document forms part of the existing documentation governing this loan the conditions of which are outlined in the mortgage deed, the loan offer and cheque issue letters”. We feel that the two conditions of a variable rate should be taken in conjunction, and that they are perfectly compatible. The result being that the rate should a) be a variable rate and b) be a variable rate limited to ECB base +1.25%.

Finally your letter states that E.B.S. “was not in a position to advise which option to take as E.B.S. is unable to predict which future direction interest rates will take”. We did not ask E.B.S. to speculate on future interest rates. We required E.B.S. to provide us with sufficient, clear information to enable us to make an informed decision about changing our loan terms. EBS failed to do this. We feel that E.B.S did not comply with the Financial Regulators consumer protection code to

“act with due skill, care and diligence in the best interests of its customers”

“make full disclosure of all relevant material information” or

“assist a consumer in understanding the product provided”

We would not have changed to a fixed rate had it been set out in detail and in writing to us that we would lose our tracker rate at the end of the fixed term or the possible consequences and cost implications of this.

As long standing members of EBS we trust the bank will accept its responsibilities in this matter and reinstate the variable ECB rate + 1.25% at the end of the fixed term. If we do not get satisfaction we will take the matter to the financial ombudsman for judgement. We look forward to hearing from you as soon as possible.
 
Hi Aidan - thank you forgetting back to me in such a detailed manner. When you say 'tracker rate application form' what do you mean? Was this the original application form that you filled in for your mortgage or did you change to a tracker in 2005 from another product? I have my loan offer etc here but i can't find the paragraph about switching from tracker anywhere in it. Apologies for all the questions, if it suits you better I can post an email address for more direct contact.
 
Its easy to make assumptions with anything for one you are making assumption of compliance with consumer protection code...being devils advocate here why do you assume compliance....personally if i was in your situation i would ask and check for all documentation for compliance....in 2005 there was no code but in 2007 there was
 
Raging Bull, I am interested in your reply regarding compliance to consumer rights. I could be wrong but from what aidanob has written it seems that the financial ombudsman ruled against him because in his loan application there was a checkbox which said that if one switches from a tracker to another product one cannot get it back.

My issue with this is:
- I was never given a copy of my loan application
- On the contract which my solicitor checked and I signed there is no mention of a penalty for switching from tracker to another product.
- On the form to switch from tracker to fixed there is no warning stating that once fixed one cannot get their tracker back.

As aidanob stated the new forms for switching clearly state that if a tracker mortgage is switched to fixed it cannot be switched back.

Maybe the consumer act of 2006 states that critical information must be clearly put before a consumer when important decisions are being made. I must check or find someone that knows about this stuff.

I know that when I was making my mind up to fix I relied on my contract and the fixed form which I was supplied for information regarding my tracker. I know that I was never furnished with a copy of the original loan offer.
 
yeah I was a bit vague and cryptic for good reasons.

I have a problem with an instituition i will not name .It is my honest opinion that they missed implementation of the consumer protection code....I have very strong circumstanial evidence to show they were not in the 2006 version for a couple of years

After a long battle I got a couple of their terms of business letter that according to them was operative in 2007. Strangely I never received it when I took out a mortgage with them.It makes no mention of the Consumer protection Code at all whereas their 2009 version does . They did also not make a submission to the Central Bank regarding its implementation (2006) version whereas basically every other institution did.

I asked for all internal documents to show compliance with teh code and they wont give me anything. Currently I asked the FSO to seek full discovery against them but that was 3 months ago and i havent heard a thing.

I also asked the Central Bank that in the interests of consumer protetcion they provide details of who they were taking about in the following report

http://www.centralbank.ie/regulation/processes/consumer-protection-code/compliance-monitoring/Documents/Themed%20Review%20-%20Examination%20of%20Mortgage%20Intermediaries%20and%20Potential%20Conflicts.pdf

You need to join up all the dots and make your own conclusions.

Based on what you have said the operative part of the 2012 code is not much different than 2006 they should have told you the implications
 
hi JL our tracker rate application form was part of the original loan documents signed in 2005. the bank should have a copy. hope this helps. keep me posted how you get on. still very sore at being rejected by the ombudsman
i think you can view the consumer guidelines of 2006 online.
 
Thanks aidanob - quick question did you receive a copy of your processed loan application form (with the tracker section in it) from the bank when you were approved for your mortgage?
 
from what i can remember no we didnt
i had to ring the bank to obtain a copy when we made our complaint
 
Hi JL77, aidanob,

I came across this forum recently & am on the same boat, switched from tracker to 3yr fixed in early 2007 and am on SVR since the completion of fixed term in early 2010.

The only loan documents I received from EBS when we took the mortgage were, copy of the loan offer and Loan cheque issue letter with booklets on mortgage conditions, that's it. I didn't even know there was a clause in the tracker application form that said once you move to a different rate you can't move back. we went through a broker and the broker got us to sign the loan application forms, and even during that time there was no mention or advise provided on this clause, all we were told was the applications will be made for tracker, that's it. We didn't even have copies of this, so we never knew the consequences of moving from tracker to a different rate. This wasn't made clear either in the Loan Offer letter or any other communication from the bank once the mortgage was approved.

So, just wanted to see if either of you pursued any other avenues in this regard? I guess, instead of making individual complaints, if we approach this as a group, this might have an impact. If you prefer, we can get in touch directly through emails and discuss on this? I still believe, EBS didn't provide enough information while we were making the switch to fixed rates to warn us on the implications.

RajR
 
Hi All,
I too opted for a switch from a tracker to a 5 yr fixed in 2007. I never signed anything, just (on advice from EBS staff member) dropped in a signed 2 line letter stating that I wanted to avail of the 5 year fixed... that was it. Then when I realised in 2012 that I lost my tracker, I took it up with loans dept. They pointed out a clause buried in the original loan issue documents (from 2006) that stated that if I moved off my tracker, I would revert to standard variable.

Naturally I never read, or paid attention to the many paragraphs in the original loan letter. But certainly, nobody pointed out to me in 2007 that I would be giving up a good tracker.

Count me in if anyone is thinking of a group action.
 
Hi Greycon,

After reading through other threads on tracker mortgagaes on this forum, I recently contacted Padraic Kissane who's handling similar cases and spoke to him regarding my case. I am taking this up with the bank to start with through Padraic and to the financial ombudsman later as necessary. If you are interested, you can join too.
 
hi rajr greycon keep us posted how you get on. I would be interested in joining your group action even though the ombudsman already rejected my claim (unfairly i thought)
 
hi greycon, aidanbob - As I mentioned before, I am pursuing this with Padraic Kissane. If you are interested to take this route, please contact Padraic via his email - [email protected]
 
Hi RajR just came across this again now, I'm in exactly the same boat as you. I tried to private message you there but you must have it disabled. Would love to know how it is going for you? If you have a chance maybe private message me your email address, I did write to the bank and got a reply.
 
Hi JL77, I don't see the option to send a private message, may be it's not enabled on the forum or for my profile not sure. You can send me a text with your email or phone number to - 0877720866 and we can talk further on this.
 
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